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Posted by: Joe penge Jan 20 2015, 04:09 PM

New here but just picked up my first 914 it's a 1972 most original has not ran in 15 years most most kept in barn needs lots of work but where do I start?i put battery in and found that all gas lines rope braided are all leaking old fuel pump under car is bad put some Either down carb and gas pump inline to test start get thing it did start just don't stay running and kills soon as I hit gas pedal...need idea what to do first or where to start and do I try to find origanal parts?any info is good or ideas to what most of you did?

Posted by: --axel-- Jan 20 2015, 04:17 PM

Obviously, don't try to run it with leaking fuel lines. Too many of these have been lost to fire. Most of us have replaced the fuel lines with stainless steel ones made by Tangerine Racing or similar.

It is likely that the fuel tank strainer has been gummed up. There is a strainer sock inside the fuel tank that should be checked/replaced.

Fuel injectors are probably not functioning properly, and should be cleaned.

Test fuel pump.

Most people get their parts from Pelican Parts. I know GPR is trying to establish a place in the market also. General consensus is to stay away from Auto Atlanta.

So many more items, but this should get you started on the fuel side.

Posted by: Joe Sharp Jan 20 2015, 05:16 PM

Posted by: mrholland2 Jan 20 2015, 05:17 PM

Buy good jack stands

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 20 2015, 05:28 PM

Sell it quickly before you get hooked!

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 20 2015, 06:45 PM

Do you have a single-carb setup, or the stock fuel injection?

The single-carb setup is pretty lousy, but can be made to work well enough to drive the car.

First step is to replace the fuel lines. Fuel + hot engine parts == fire; FIRE BAD! Get an extinguisher while you're at it.

Replace all the fluids as well. Check the brakes; they may need serious work. Being able to "go" without being able to "whoa" is not a good thing.

If you can start it on ether, then you have spark and at least some compression. So what's missing is fuel. The fuel system (carb or injectors, plus the pump and any fuel lines) could be gunked up with old fuel that has turned to varnish. Lots of cleaning, rebuilding, or replacing will likely be needed to get that out.

BTW, we love pics of these cars. Have any?

--DD

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 20 2015, 07:36 PM

Will take more pics soon

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 20 2015, 07:43 PM

Took off air cleaner.

Posted by: TargaToy Jan 20 2015, 07:49 PM

Oh boy...

Posted by: Beeliner Jan 20 2015, 10:11 PM

It looks like a Rustoration Project.....

Help is only a thread away.....

Posted by: worn Jan 20 2015, 10:16 PM

Mine is red and also a 72. They are I think a unique year among the breed. Let me know if I can help with anything. I have a lot of spare parts and am not too far away.

Since you already have the carbs you probably should keep it that way, but I do have a complete 1.7 lying around as I make my 72 into a six.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 20 2015, 10:21 PM

Is it bad no holes in body one did has surface rust and needs battery tray replaced ..I need picture layout of vacuum lines and breather tubes for person that never worked on Porsche ...but ideas is what will help me get this back on road...I want to keep original as I can...if that's what is being done with this type of car!!

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 20 2015, 10:22 PM

That's not a carb. You have djet.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 20 2015, 10:31 PM

It needs go back to oem color ivory white it's been 3 colors repainted if you have parts that I can use I will buy them I really don't know what I got myself into but I really want to bring this back to life and in joy it..

Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 20 2015, 10:34 PM

My '73 started as a project too. I have had a lot of fun and frustration working on it.

Good luck, there is a lot of help here that you can't find anywhere else.

Posted by: Hank914 Jan 20 2015, 10:53 PM

Welcome, from another Ivory White 1.7L 1972.

Posted by: Erben914 Jan 20 2015, 11:40 PM

:wttc
If you have some patience, tools and common sense you are well on your way to getting it on the road. I would check the longs and he'll hole for structural rust before you get to far I to it tho.
Here is some light ivory inspiration for you.

Posted by: RobW Jan 21 2015, 07:50 AM

You'll find that the restoration of a 914 is an imaginative, technical, and trying journey only limited by your wallet.

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 21 2015, 07:59 AM

You'll want to look under those rocker panel covers before you do too much more. Especially on the passenger side.

Looks like it has a Bursch sport muffler. Those are VERY loud but a lot of people like them.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 21 2015, 10:12 AM

Are you relocating your full pump or keeping it the oem unit same spot under rear car below the battery ?? I found oem pump $240 with the three ports

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 21 2015, 10:17 AM

Is that the panels under the doors and what do I look for they have some rust holes in back part needs new ones for sure.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 21 2015, 12:55 PM

So fuel is leaking out the back of the black wire conecter..is there a rebuild kit I can buy with instructions?

Posted by: ndfrigi Jan 21 2015, 12:58 PM

Just buy a new one and you can use the 2 port fuel pump around $85 or less I think from Napa.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 21 2015, 01:46 PM

The black parts under the doors are the rocker covers. If they have holes, that's a bad sign. Remove them, or at least remove the screws on the bottom and swing them up and out, to inspect the rocker panels themselves. You'll probably get a lot of dirt out when you do that, and with holes in the covers there's a good chance you'll find holes in the rockers.

I would not try to rebuild that fuel pump. I know that people have done it, but I don't feel the risk is worth it. To get at the electric motor, you'll have to un-crimp the housing to pull it apart. Then you'll need to source O-rings and such.

It's better to replace the pump when it leaks out of that part. You can use pretty much any pump that is capable of delivering the pressure and volume that the engine requires, as long as it isn't so much that it overwhelms the fuel pressure regulator. Some plumbing changes are usually necessary when you change to a non-stock pump, but those are well known and not really a problem.

--DD

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 21 2015, 02:08 PM

Our good friend Jeff Bowlsby has a great website for info.... including each and every type of vacuum line layout.

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/
Click on the TECH NOTEBOOK and dig around.

As someone mentioned you have D-Jet fuel injection. Look for stuff on that type. I found that O'rielly auto parts has metric hoses for vacuum and fuel. Get fuel hoses that handle ethanol.

You have a ways to go. I think you are starting at a good place. See if the engine will run. So check and replace everything that makes that happen. Fuel and power from beginning to end. Don't go too far, til you know about the RUST situation. Once you know about rust start with.....

Fuel tank.... fuel filter, fuel sock, fuel pump (you have found), hard fuel lines (in the tunnel), fuel injectors, all need checking and fixing after 15 years of sitting and gumming up. Vacuum lines and associated items fall in here too.

Then on to the electrical.... battery, ground connections, wire harness, etc.....

Heck, once you have all that done, you will be happy and can move on to brakes and suspension.

Posted by: green914 Jan 21 2015, 02:20 PM

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 21 2015, 02:32 PM

Holes in those panels are not critical, the panels are just for looks. You could clean them up and make repairs on them. But as mentioned, you need to see what is under the panels. Dirt gets stuck in there and then water stuck to the dirt. Rust forms from that. the Jack Point is the square tube that sticks out of the panel. Those accumulate dirt/water and rust.

You may have to cut the rusty screws and bolts to get them off. Get them off and let's see some pictures.

You should give the car a good look over and poke around with a screw driver all along the longitudinal, behind the seats (seats and carpet pulled), need a picture of your HELL HOLE too.

All that before you jump in and get the engine running. Cause if you have tons of RUST, a running engine will not do you much good. But in my opinion the engine is next after a semi clean bill of health (minimal rust).

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 21 2015, 03:12 PM

Get a new one. The parts and labor are not worth the effort. The fuel pressure is higher than you probably think. ~34 psi. so you also need to check all of your fuel lines before you start it. Don't want any fires. Your fuel tank will probably need to be flushed too. Not hard to do.

Look at Larmo63's build thread. He brought a car back to life and it's a nice car now. It's a long road but very rewarding once you get done with it.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 21 2015, 05:33 PM

Wow it's clean down below gas tank small surface rust very little..[attachmentid=484002] [attachmentid=484002] [attachmentid=484005] [attachmentid=484005] [attachmentid=484006]

Posted by: sfrenck Jan 21 2015, 06:07 PM

Pull the rocker covers before going any further - as others have said. No point having your fuel pump working if you car is about to bend in half!

Since the rocker covers have holes in them, take them totally off and post pictures.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 21 2015, 06:27 PM

Well my heart is broken not sure it can be fixed I took pic of bad side other is half the holes..

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 21 2015, 06:28 PM

Can this be fixed within reason or total it out?

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 21 2015, 06:41 PM

It depends on how structural the rust is. Need more pics. Do the doors open and close freely or are they hard to open and sag down ? Take some pics of the underside. Also the door jambs at the back. A few years ago we would have told you to throw it away but a lot more 914s are being saved these days. So the drivers side is the bad side? Usually the passenger side is much worse because battery acid would wash down the long. Are you SURE it's better on the other side?

Posted by: 1972 914 2.0 Jan 21 2015, 06:46 PM

Great to see another '72 on the site! First order of business should be to drain the old gas out the tank and to replace those hoses with some permeation resistant ones (find at local auto store). Check the operation of the fuel pump, with the ignition on you should be able to hear it running. Parts for fuel for the D-Jet injection system you have could be hard to come by but it looks complete and may just need seals. Parts for Type 4 motors in general are pretty abundant and replacement/OEM parts aren't hard to come by either. With new gas, fresh lines, and possibly a new pump it should start and run almost immediately. My '72 started up on the first turn after sitting for SEVEN years without doing anything to it. But no matter how temping, DON'T try to drive it without checking brake operation.
I bought my '72 in May 2013 and it should be finished by this summer.
Yours looks complete but rough so good luck, congratulations, and

Here's what my 914 looks like currently with the motor out

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 21 2015, 06:48 PM

Doors open and close very little sag.passanger side has less at door but where fuel pump was is gone pump hanging on rust crazy lots good spots but the wholes make me think it will be hard to bring back or a hard learning curve..can I buy the metal to fix this pic or do I need custom guy to make and weld it?

Posted by: Chris H. Jan 21 2015, 07:05 PM

Restoration design makes most of the panels you would need. Brad Mayeur at 914 Limited in Peoria can replace them if you don't have experience with that kind of thing.

http://www.restoration-design.com/store/category/914

The worst thing that can happen is you learn a lot by taking a whole 914 apart. The parts are worth more than the whole in most cases. Hopefully you can save it though.

Posted by: sfrenck Jan 21 2015, 07:28 PM

If you know how to weld, have a lot of project time on your hand, and like to learn then fix what you have.

If you are like me then find a new roller from the west coast, buy it, ship it to your house, pick the best parts from both for the new car and sell the rest.

Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 21 2015, 07:38 PM

When I bought it…...

Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 21 2015, 07:40 PM

Now, with a lot more to go….

Posted by: TargaToy Jan 21 2015, 08:29 PM

That can be fixed. Lotta work. Now's a good time to consider how much you can reasonably handle yourself, how much you can afford to pay someone to fix it, or if it makes more sense to find a solid roller and start with a better chassis.

I'm a glutton for punishment and like to see even rough cases saved.

Posted by: Erben914 Jan 21 2015, 09:09 PM

The later year cars have the fuel pump up front by the fuel tank. I relocated mine to that stock position. I learned here on the fourm that the pump works better pushing fuel rather than sucking it!
Fuel pump location is the least of your worries right now. Lots of good info here. Good luck.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 23 2015, 11:09 AM

So I opened up fuel pump and cleaned it put o-ring in and it works so I put in car and started it it runs good just back fires out exhaust any ideas why? Or what to look for?

Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 23 2015, 11:58 AM

At some point, finding a "solid tub" or "solid chassis" is going to be impossible as these cars age and get even more rare. The price of fixing a real rust bucket will become worth it as these cars increase in value.

Posted by: ndfrigi Jan 23 2015, 12:25 PM

You're right Lawrence, I have seen several 914 tub where cut to pieces and what if in the future there will no much 914 tub available. I admire SoCal Andy, instead of putting his tub to junk, he did an amazing restoration to save another 914 tub. Same with the 74 I used to have, at first it was only a bill of sale from the previous owner I bought it and another bill of sale for me, so I was thinking of just cut the metal and sell it. But I would like to save it until Mark (who got the car) took it and plan of restoring. Not only that, yesterday the previous owner whom I got it, called and said he got the PINK SLIP from whom he bought it for a couple of years ago. Thank God for providing the pink slip instead of paying so much getting a title replacement or maybe so much hassle getting one. So now Mark who owns the car will be more excited and encourage restoring the 74 1.8.

Ooops sorry for hi jacking this thread and for a long message! Thanks!

Joe Penge, my 75 1.8 FI was in 8 years non-op parked along the driveway of the previous owner. What I did is to remove the fuel tank and drained it and cleaned it, then replace all fuel hoses (tunnel line was replaced to SS fuel lines but late on maybe after a few months running) but I suggest also to replace them now, replaced also vacuum lines, check fuel injection hoses, change oil and install new battery. And that's it for initial process to make it running until I did several repair and fixing.

God Bless on your new project!

Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 23 2015, 12:31 PM

Hey Joe, I haven't read through your entire thread in detail, but it looks like you've got D-Jet and a car that hasn't run in a long time. You're going to have a lot of troubleshooting and learning to do (BTDT with a '72 that sat idle for a long time). I enjoyed the process, but it can also be frustrating at times.

A couple of resources you're going to need in addition to Bowlsby's site:

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm. The "bible" on understanding and troubleshooting D-Jet (IMHO). PLEASE bookmark this site and read and re-read this page and others when you have a D-Jet question.

https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=002408345898193228772:ajvfxschcgc. Use this to see if your question has been answered before or if you can gather more info on your issue so you can be as specific as possible when you post it here.

As to this question, the root cause of backfiring can be caused my many different issues in the fuel delivery and ignition process. Is this the first time the car started in a long time? I'd gather more data (does it do it all the time, when does it do it, how do you describe it in detail) that might help isolate.

Also, I agree with 1972 914 2.0 who said you're going to need to drain the fuel tank and pretty much replace all the fuel lines and vacuum hoses.

The good news is you've got it to fire up. It took me something like 3 months to get that far with mine.

Posted by: Claus Graf Jan 23 2015, 01:04 PM

Save the Porsche!

Here is what my 914 looks like. Lots of rust in the Longs.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 23 2015, 02:54 PM

well back fire only happened when I hit gas hard popped then idi it again it popped again and died out so not sure can vacuum line cause that?

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 23 2015, 03:02 PM

Good luck on this frame wow mine is not that bad but gots me feeling like I wasted money on a car not worth as much as it will cost to repair it only bowing little on repairing of it ..and had a guy after looking at 1970 roller he told me don't waste my time on repairing it he lost lots of money !!wish had member closer to me help keep me motivated and on right track and little help to keep cost down to keep from falling in same as guy I taked too..so lots to think about now..

Posted by: CptTripps Jan 23 2015, 03:09 PM

Hey Joe. Great to meet you. Here's my unsolicited advice: Sell it as is...at a loss if you have to.

From the limited posts I've read, it sounds like you're going to get in WAY over your head in a hurry. I hate to be the guy to come off like a dick....I'm really not that way. Just being honest.

I'm sure I'll likely get flamed, but if you aren't ready to realistically spend $2500-$4000 fixing that one...then bail now. There are a LOT of 914s out there that have the exact same issues, so there is plenty of support if you want it. But you do have to want it.

Look over some of the restoration threads. Just about all of us have had the longs off at some point and it's never a trivial job.

I'd LOVE to see you go at it and restore the whole thing. Honestly...I really would. But I'm being realistic. If you're looking for something that you can drive and feel good about, start with a different car.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 23 2015, 05:25 PM

Well I'm going to work with it till I can't just started so I'm not out yet...well I got it running and runs really good very surprised no either to help it start key on and off new vac lines so pump is good and grounded engine this is what I think was misfiring it bad ground to engine.so before I run new fuel lines I am going for test drive test trans and break system just short drive.....wish me luck

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 23 2015, 05:29 PM

Thanks honest is good if it only takes $3000 im in !!! Just trying and learning see what and where I need be before I'm very upside down...a plus is that engine ran good today now next step....

Posted by: mepstein Jan 23 2015, 09:04 PM

Doug is being kind. It's a decent parts car but you'll spend $10K (probably more) + a couple years to get it back on the road and running well.

Engine
trans
replacement metal
paint
interior
brakes
shocks
tires
seals, gaskets, bushings, hoses, lines
ect.

Posted by: worn Jan 23 2015, 09:15 PM

I agree that Doug is being kind, and he knows. I disagree that this is a parts car. I think that term is vanishing. But I am betting that you wanted a cool sports car, to drive. what you now have is a possible big commitment to bringing one to life. Not at all the same experience. This is generally beyond the means of many experienced car guys. If it isn't expensive it is difficult, dirty, boring, and dangerous. And, if you dont take it far enough, you get nothing.
Would I take it on? Yeah, but I like to grind and weld, and it will take a lot of grinding and welding. Then we can think about the motor.
Again I am not geographically too far, so you have help.

Posted by: poorsche914 Jan 24 2015, 10:31 AM

Here are pics of my 914 when I bought it nearly 5 years ago... I have the feeling many on this forum would have said "Part it" after seeing these pictures.

PASSENGER LONG


DRIVER LONG


REAR TRUNK


HELL HOLE


TONS of bondo on front fender and other places


At Okteenerfest 2014


My point... unless it is rusted so bad that it is ready to collapse, make your 914 safe first - fuel system, brakes, etc and then fix it up a little at a time.

Even with fairly recent paint/bodywork (shoddy but that's another story) my 914 is a 20-footer at best But as my daily driver I have focused on engine (new FI lines, fuel pump, tank, lines, etc), suspension (totally redone with stiffer torsion bars, turbo tie rods, bushings, 140# springs, etc), brakes (new disks, pads), and interior (work in progress). All done a little at a time over the past few years.

I know my 914 needs a LOT of bodywork. And at some point that will get done. Until then, I enjoy driving every day!

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 24 2015, 01:23 PM

thank you so much would like the help and guidance you can give ,you are little over 2 hours away from me I'm at six flags great America exit...well with this said she will be saved no parts car here lol!!!

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 24 2015, 01:28 PM

That pump I was talking about sold $315

Posted by: mepstein Jan 24 2015, 01:40 PM

Way too much for a rebuilt pump.
The problem with driving around with rusted longs is there is a good chance the seatbelt mounting point is compromised and not hold secure during an accident and also the car might fold up on you.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 24 2015, 05:04 PM

Ok turned key and started right up today so I changed oil and filter today and tested first gear and reverse both did great and stoped but now fuel is leaking from hose on fuel injectors and at the base of intake so ordered all the parts to take out and redo 45 fuel line upper and lower seal and spring washer ..regulator is not leaking so will try to keep old ones in but drove 100 ft front and backwards so think it's on a good path is it easy to do injector redo parts?

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 24 2015, 09:09 PM

If the injectors are leaking from the fuel lines, they're pretty easy. If the lines to the injectors still have the old crimp-on clamps, you'll have to cut them off. Replace with fuel injector hose clamps--the ones shapes like an omega or horseshoe, not the ones with a worm gear that cut into the hose.

If an injectors is leaking around the electrical connector, or down right where it plugs into the intake, you should replace the whole injector.

Injectors are held into the intake pipes by one M6 (10mm wrench) nut. Remove that nut, pull the metal retainer off the stud on the intake, grab the injector and pull straight out. There is one large O-ring on the injector body that the retainer seats on. There is one small O-ring near the end of the injector, where it slides into the intake. Replace both of those O-rings; leaks in the latter especially make for some ugly driveability problems.

--DD

Posted by: CptTripps Jan 26 2015, 09:57 AM

What likely happened was they were on the "edge" of going bad, and when you put pressure through them, it pushed them over said edge.

Replace the lines...replace the crimps as Dave noted...you should be good to go.

Post some more pics of the rust you're dealing with. We can help you make a decision on how far you want to take it. Do you have anyone with a lift that can put her in the air for you?

Posted by: Han Solo Jan 26 2015, 12:28 PM

I've seen worse. Heck, I own one in worse shape than that. That's definitely repairable. But there's going to be more rust for sure. If you want to learn to weld - get that chassis up on a lift, drop the engine and transmission, drop the suspension, strip the interior (you might be able to leave the dash in) and start stripping the undercoating and paint. That's when you'll find all the rust. You need a dry garage with space you can occupy for about 12 months. The small rust areas can be repaired with sheet metal patches but get the RD parts for large areas like floor pans, trunk pans, inner and outer longs. For some inspiration check out my thread...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=221104

Much of what I did was not a true restoration but my goal was to have a fun autocross car on a budget. You'll figure out where you're headed when you get knee-deep in rusty metal

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 29 2015, 11:22 AM

Need help finding the bracket that holds the ecm board to the battery tray a part number or where to find this ???i found mine laying in engine compartment.

Posted by: stinkindiesel Jan 29 2015, 01:54 PM

Mine was the same when I bought the car. I ended up fabbing a bracket from a piece of aluminum L. Not as pretty, but a darned sight cheaper. Maybe some day I'll get the real thing, but there are just too many more things to spend money on first.

Gary

Posted by: OllieG Jan 29 2015, 02:25 PM

Hi,

My 2 cents, I really think you need to assess how structurally safe your car is to drive before you worry about fuel pumps, brackets etc... From the pic you posted it looks like the Longs could be really compromised.

I would get it on a lift and have a trusted expert have a look at it before you spend anything on little things.

Post more pics of the Longs, Hell Hole, Battery tray, floor pans etc...if you can.

Cheers.

Posted by: MJHanna Jan 29 2015, 02:25 PM

The fuel pump you were looking at was for a 911 with MFI. NOT the same pump used on your car. That was not a bad price for a MFI pump. If yours quits again re read the post about the NAPA pump. I think your in over your head. IF you don't weld and are not planning to learn you need to run from this project.

Posted by: Joe penge Jan 29 2015, 10:39 PM

I was offered help to weld I'm ordering rockers and battery tray and other stuff but need sheet of metal all stuff I have been reading is 20 gauge aluminized steel is this what most are using ? Also picked up a Clark mig wilder with gas and going to run #23 wire for auto welding so I'm trying to get ready to do this right......

Posted by: somd914 Jan 31 2015, 09:23 AM

You certainly have a project on your hands. I agree it would be wise to determine the real extent of the rust which is always worse than it looks on the surface - mechanical work is far cheaper and easier than major body work.

Then you need determine what your goals are:

1) Project car that will take years and $$$ (always more than estimated) to make right, but will offer satisfaction in knowing you brought a car back from the dead.

2) Something to tinker on but be able to drive and enjoy immediately or soon while you take your time making her right.

3) Something that is well sorted and upgrades being the "need" , but given the car you bought, I'd say this isn't the path you were interested in.

One major consideration is that you'll invest far more into this car than she'll be worth. But all hobbies cost money (cars and sailing for me- big cash outlays but worth it to me).

For me, I went route 2. My '73 was restored during '03-'04 which included hell hole replacement, jack tube replacements, left long repair, and sail panel replacements. I bought it 4 years ago with 27k miles since restoration. I paid about 30 cents on the dollar put into restoring it.

As you can see, she has changed a bit...

Posted by: Joe penge Feb 1 2015, 12:04 AM

Looks great hope I can make mine look like that..did you learn how to weld doing this car?

Posted by: Han Solo Feb 1 2015, 08:04 AM

20 gauge cold rolled steel. Clean and prime each patch with weld through primer before you weld it in. That way it's protected against rust even if it's inside where you can't get to it later.

Posted by: somd914 Feb 1 2015, 08:26 AM

Not my work, PO saved the car from the crusher - he had a shop do the body work.