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Posted by: campbellcj Feb 4 2015, 11:44 AM

Just FYI - sorry if this is a re-post. No affiliation other than being a long-time satisfied customer.

http://www.stoddard.com/sic-211-005-00.html

Posted by: pete000 Feb 4 2015, 11:46 AM

Wish I had 3 grand to be on the waiting list !

Posted by: bulitt Feb 4 2015, 11:48 AM

As these cars become more popular we may see more manufacturers making parts?

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 4 2015, 12:39 PM

If they're being sold by Stoddard, they ARE factory parts, just not sourced through the same path as parts for currently supported vehicles.

The Cap'n

Posted by: GeorgeRud Feb 4 2015, 01:32 PM

Though they're expensive, they do look beautifully made. I wish they made them in larger diameters, but the tooling costs would be immense. Otherwise, I wish Billy Boat's heat exchangers were better fits and worked better as he does make them in larger diameters. It seems most conversions are using larger engines than the original 2.0 liter.

Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 4 2015, 01:45 PM

Nope, Dansk reproductions.

Yes, there is a thread on this and one from Stoddards (Per Schroeder) in the vendors section.

Posted by: 9146986 Feb 4 2015, 03:44 PM

I tried to get Dansk to work with me to make thosed, some 15 years ago. I sent a set to them, and they weren't interested. Told me whatever tooling they ever might have had for those had long since been scrapped on the instruction from Porsche. Hmmmm

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Feb 4 2015, 03:50 PM

Wish they would tool up for the 914/4 2.0L HEs.

Posted by: scotty b Feb 4 2015, 03:53 PM

I know for a fact through multiple sources, Dansk is providing the dealerships with the " factory " parts. Most anything you are buying at the dealer for older Porsches, thinking they are " factory " is marked up Dansk. I've just gone through this looking for NOS 911 door skins, and early 911 fenders. Same parts from R.D./Pelican as the dealer for significantly less

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 4 2015, 04:53 PM

Surely you don't think Porsche made all those original HEs inhouse. Nearly everything is supplied under contract by outside suppliers. Dansk may not be the original supplier, but those new ones are as "factory" as you're ever gonna see.

Posted by: bulitt Feb 4 2015, 06:35 PM

Cruster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIL2kmKAetQ

Posted by: Targa70 Mar 28 2015, 08:56 PM

Anybody on the forum had a chance to get a set and test them out. I am curious about fit and performance?

Posted by: siverson May 4 2015, 09:55 PM

> Anybody on the forum had a chance to get a set and test them out. I am curious about fit and performance?

Anybody yet? I'm curious too... I seem to recall toolguy had a set...?

-Steve

Posted by: toolguy May 4 2015, 10:18 PM

Got my set. . looked great. . . pulled my old ones of and guess what. . don't fit, bolt holes do not line up and mating surfaces not parallel with heads. .
I'm working with Stoddard's manager. . made him a template of my old exchanges. .
As of now, Dansk has recalled them. . waiting for word on new production run. .
And to be fair to Stoddard, they are bending over backwards to get these right. . great customer service, just have to go through the pains of being the first to try them out. . additional customers reporting the same issues.

Here's how far off the bolt holes are. .plexiglas locating fixture I made and my old factory exchangers and then the new Dansk, and the mating surfaces


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Posted by: altitude411 May 4 2015, 10:20 PM

Wow! I bet someone is getting a ...

Posted by: Steve May 4 2015, 11:53 PM

I can't believe they didn't have a six to try them on before mass producing them. Otherwise I wish I had the money for them when they get them right. Mine are pretty trashed but work great and provide awesome heat in the winter time, which is kind of a joke in Southern California.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 5 2015, 06:57 AM

Sorry to see that but I am sure Stoddard will make it right.

I have decided (before the fitment issue came to light) to have Scotty blast and repair mine as needed and then have them ceramic coated and use them.

What I am really trying to find is a set of headers with heat exchangers in 1 5/8" tubing to help the 3.2 run properly. Perhaps even 1 3/4" tubing depending upon what the people in the know about this stuff (certainly not me) have to say.

Posted by: sbsix May 5 2015, 09:27 AM

My set were exactly flawed like toolguy mentioned. Stoddard took the return with no issues and I'm waiting for word about Dansk retooling and offering them again.

Posted by: bob Sep 11 2015, 06:08 AM

Was Stoddard able to fix the issues and do these fit now?

anyone buy and install these recently?

-bob

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 11 2015, 06:41 AM

Posted by: RobW Sep 11 2015, 06:53 AM

Posted by: siverson Sep 11 2015, 08:06 AM

Posted by: johnhora Sep 11 2015, 08:35 AM

They have fixed the design issue....
They provided a full refund to the purchasers plus paid for return shipping of the defective units.
They have offered to pay shipping to those original buyers for new units.
The Stoddards team is first class and are Porsche owners and Porsche Nuts...
They have always been upstanding in my personal dealings with them and the products I have purchased have always been OEM or OEM compatible.

Posted by: sbsix Sep 11 2015, 09:20 AM

No word from Dansk or Stoddard yet. Toolguy and I have been checking in with them periodically.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 11 2015, 09:35 AM

Posted by: sbsix Sep 11 2015, 09:37 AM

Just checked in with Stoddard and they have a few in stock of the new batch. Ordered another set and should have them next week. I'll let every body know how they fit.

Posted by: bigkensteele Sep 11 2015, 09:49 AM

I just got mine a couple of weeks ago, but it will be a LONG time before I install them. Is it safe to assume that they would be the corrected version? I am a bit nervous now.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Sep 11 2015, 10:29 AM

Porsche has always funneled contract work out to satellite mfgs. especially exhaust. In the '70s the HB'S were probably built by Bischoff, Eberspacher, Leistritz, or Dansk. Today the new 991 gt3 titanium headers are US made.
As far as qc goes with these new Stoddard repops, I've seen some of the reports + photos here on this thread... not a high qc operation.There is no excuse for sloppy tolerances like this/ then packed up and shipped to a customer. The few exhaust mfgs. here on world, myself included know how bad your reputation will suffer with C- parts being sold. Stoddard is doing the right thing, but their problem needs to be corrected in the factory.

Posted by: db9146 Sep 11 2015, 11:27 AM

How 'bout a line of MSDS heat exchangers?

That twin turbo monster you're building is going to go through a lot of tires and gas!!!

Posted by: sbsix Sep 11 2015, 11:29 AM

Toolguy on this forum has a template for fitment based on his OE HEs. I would email him to ask for a paper copy to transfer to plexiglas to double check the Stoddard replacements.

Posted by: bigkensteele Sep 11 2015, 12:34 PM

Actually, after I posted, I realized that I still have the 911 exchangers that came with the motor, so I can make my own template. I plan on doing that this weekend and reporting back.

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 11 2015, 01:26 PM

I have a feeling that's not going to happen
A retro fit for his headers would rock, but being they are ceramic coated they probably won't work great with the coating....unless someone tells me I'm incorrect.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Sep 11 2015, 02:40 PM

We repair/ ceramic coat oe heater boxes all the time. The factory used a high temp paint and in wet climates didn't last...which compromised the steel. I'm not game just yet on getting into the HB business, but for a consultation fee I will correct Stoddard's QC manufacturing issue

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 11 2015, 02:54 PM

I meant I have MSDS ceramic headers for my conversion...and with that nice coating I don't think the heat would heat up the heater boxes enough to cook you in the cabin

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 11 2015, 03:10 PM

I'd be very interested in a set of your headers with HBs done by you. There is no good aftermarket solution. Most look questionable, and I don't hear good things about how they work. The Dansk HEs (and used factory HEs) are $,$$$ with too many issues or potential issues.

The other nice thing about a setup from you would be people with bigger displacement sixes might have a shot at heat with correct tube sizing. Ceramic coating would be a nice option, as I don't need a lot of heat, and the last set of SSIs made too much unless you turned the heat down.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 11 2015, 04:21 PM

I too would be interested in headers with heat exchangers made by Maltese Falcon. At this point Scotty is blasting and patching up my stock heat exchangers and then I am going to have them Jet Hot coated. I would like to go with a larger size tubing to accommodate the 3.2 motor.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Sep 11 2015, 04:34 PM

Pete
If you get a moment at Renn5, drop by the MSDS exhibit we can have a quick chat about this most entertaining topic
Space #7 in the merchant row.
Marty

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 11 2015, 05:23 PM

I like it. Will look for you!

pete

Posted by: bigkensteele Sep 11 2015, 08:43 PM

Well, my first preliminary check tonight is somewhat discouraging. I took a small level and laid it across the flanges to see if they were on or close to a plane. They are not.




These last two are of the 911 unit that came with my motor. MUCH more level.



I think that I have some 1/8 plate around the garage somewhere. If I can squeeze it in this weekend, I will make a jig and see if the bolt holes line up and how much force it takes to bring these into plane. However, given that they are visibly out and it is steel (exchangers) vs. aluminum (heads), I don't know that I want to live with that kind of stress pulling at my exhaust studs.

More to come...

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 11 2015, 09:08 PM

QA is a thing of the past ...

Posted by: bigkensteele Sep 11 2015, 09:31 PM

Yeah, that was my thought is well. How hard would it be to pass it through a QA station where somebody simply placed a jig across the flanges to verify that they are flat and the holes line up. Is that really too much to ask when these things cost three thousand freaking dollars?!?!?

Posted by: toolguy Sep 11 2015, 09:52 PM

When I had the initial problem 6 months ago and reported it to Stoddard, I made them a bolt stud location pattern and sent it to the man who was supposedly in charge of their Six exchanger program. . They have that pattern, and said they would check every set they received before being shipped to customers. . apparently seeing the latest newer pictures they still haven't got the assembly process figured out. .
From talking with them, they said the tubes were assembled on a jig. . my guess is they are flexing the tubes to weld the collector flange, and when the heat distortion cools at the fixed welded collector, the head mount flanges become out of specs. . You'd expect the guy welding the mess would realize when he tries to pull the set off the jig and they stick on the studs, something isn't quite right and remove them from shipping. .
For what it's worth, no way would I torque a stud in an aluminum head enough to pull that crooked flange parallel to the port. . just asking for trouble and exactly who is going to have to pay to fix your stripped head stud hole. .

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 11 2015, 09:57 PM

That is disappointing. How hard would it be to mill the flange flat, assuming the bolt holes are in the proper orientation?

Posted by: toolguy Sep 11 2015, 10:03 PM

Milling it would take 5 minutes. . however figuring a way to fixture it on the mill table and the other flanges without distorting then from their 'relaxed ' position would be a nightmare. .
I've been a machinist for years and I can't imagine a realistic way of doing it given the sheet metal heater box under the flanges. . nothing to grip. . .
Then again, for 3 grand they should be perfect outta the box. . and if you screw up the exchanger I'd bet they be non returnable. .

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Sep 12 2015, 01:08 AM

Agreed, once the upper and lower stamped metal shells have been crimped in place; it's game over for holding the HB in a machining/milling operation. That is, if you really don't mind having all of the clamping dents in your once handsome $3,000.00 heater boxes.
Even while holding spec in hot welding jigs, if released too soon from the jig to cool down, primary header tubes move like snakes.
Several normalizing techniques are used to bring back into spec, a slight amount of surfacing and all is well.
Like Toolguy said, once the metal shells are on where do you place the hold down clamps ?
Idea how about; QC the primaries after welding, then crimping on the shells.
Example part that we build, the v10 BMW m5/m6 pulse tuned headers.
We use welding jigs and then we bolt each header into cooling jigs. Final flange surface machining is only a razor thin cleanup.
QC is just part of the job

Posted by: mepstein Sep 12 2015, 05:51 AM

I would not touch them but call stoddard for a call tag to pick up and refund money in full.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 12 2015, 06:13 AM

All I want for Christmas is a set of Marty-made heat exchanger/headers for my Six. Damn, those are beautiful

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 12 2015, 07:37 AM

I would think the jig would require holding both the muffler flange and the head flanges at the same time. I wonder what they are doing with the rejects.....

Posted by: Peashooter Sep 12 2015, 08:14 AM

What you need is a machine similar to what I saw during a visit to Ollie's shop. It is basically a large custom made belt sander that they use to resurface the case halves. That way you could level out all three flanges at once.
Sad to hear of the poor quality for a premium price!

Posted by: Mikey914 Sep 12 2015, 08:50 AM

No good deed goes unpunished. I worked out a deal for Ken to get these as a thanks for help on the dash, I just dropped them an email. Sorry for the Hassle on this Ken. I hope we can get this resolved shortly. I'm sure Stoddard will do the right thing.
Mark

Posted by: sbsix Sep 12 2015, 02:37 PM

The picture of your "new" Stoddard/Dansk HE shows the original problem with the first sets they sold. If they didn't fix the issue about level flanges I doubt if the bolt holes line up either. I'll let everyone know what my second set looks like when I get them this coming week.

Posted by: bigkensteele Sep 12 2015, 06:47 PM

Thanks, Mark. I am certain it will get worked out.

Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 12 2015, 10:38 PM

Really sucks about the fitment of the Stoddard/dansk exchangers, hard to understand why QC would miss this before it went out the door.

Marty has said in the past that he wasn't interested in reproducing heat exchangers.
I have a set of Marty's headers and the quality is top notch to say the least, but the design would be not the best for a heater box retrofit. He would be looking at a total redesign of the headers, so essentially he'd be starting from scratch.

Posted by: Per Schroeder Sep 14 2015, 12:04 PM

That is hard to understand, as we worked out the template with Toolguy and bolted the jig to every single one we received back from customers---and they were sent back to Dansk for retooling---Dansk scrapped them all and made new ones which are on the way back to our customers at this time.

The new ones come with a template/jig bolted to each and every one.

I believe you may have one of the original batches sold to one of our dealers. We didn't receive all of the original ones back from the dealers.

Give us a call (800) 342-1414 and we'll make it right.


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Posted by: scotty b Sep 14 2015, 12:11 PM

Not to pile on ( but I will ) ...... I have been having constant issues with Dansk body panels the last few years. The last 911 door skin I got had to be cut and widened almost 1/8 inch just to fit over the original inner shell. I'm not sure what is going on with the QC over there, but it's starting to look like the U.S. and Chinese factories have taken control

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 14 2015, 12:17 PM

Way to step up. Sucks when stuff like this happens but it's how it's dealt with that makes the story a happy ending. I would love to pick through their scrap pile.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 14 2015, 12:22 PM

I have to applaude Stoddard for stepping up to the plate to address this fitment issue. Hopefully the OP received one of the original new sets and not the corrected version. I look forward to someone posting after receiving the corrected set to see how fitment is. Thanks Stoddard.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Sep 14 2015, 12:30 PM

We got two sets in for customers and they bolt right on now:



Stoddard did everything by the book to make it perfect. Our new ones came with the jig attached.

Posted by: dcheek Sep 14 2015, 12:38 PM

You guys crack me up.
You pay $3000 and you want them to fit?
Don't you think you're asking too much?

Ahhhh.....sarcasm.... the lowest form of humor.

Makes you really appreciate how well made these cars were originally. There is no way the factory would tolerate such a defect, and why Porsche is so particular with its parts and parts suppliers. Can you imagine what it cost to replace all those porous Boxster engine blocks?!

Dave

Posted by: bigkensteele Sep 14 2015, 02:43 PM

Just got off the phone with Pete. Sounds like this will have a good ending.

Thanks, Per.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 14 2015, 09:40 PM

That is definitely sweet! Eric how did those oily fingerprints get on the new HE's? Can these be ceramic coated?

Posted by: sbsix Sep 21 2015, 09:51 AM

Received my second set of HEs from Stoddard and they are perfect. Big thanks to toolguy for providing me a template and sending one to Stoddard to assure that the new batch fits. Stoddard even sends them with a steel template bolted to each HE.

Thanks again Dave.