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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 914-6/904 project begins

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2015, 09:49 AM

The 914 race car arrived today, the 904 body is half built, but should be here soon. Very exciting!


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Posted by: Bruce Hinds Mar 12 2015, 10:49 AM

Oh boy! This looks like fun . . . keep the pictures coming. Who makes the 904 body?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2015, 11:49 AM

A friend of mine in Canada took a mold off an original body, so he is making one for me.

Since I sold Da Spoodster I have been very excited about this one, you have to keep the mind occupied!


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Posted by: Mueller Mar 12 2015, 01:17 PM

Looking forward to the 904 build...seems like that should be way more popular...too many darn Cobra replicas!

Posted by: BillJ Mar 12 2015, 02:02 PM

Not sure the fuel cell is big enough biggrin.gif

Looks like a great project.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2015, 05:42 PM

Like skinning a rabbit, you can see the carcass in the background.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 12 2015, 06:17 PM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Mar 12 2015, 12:49 PM) *

Oh boy! This looks like fun . . . keep the pictures coming. Who makes the 904 body?



QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 12 2015, 01:49 PM) *

A friend of mine in Canada took a mold off an original body, so he is making one for me.


Never been crazy about secrets here.... rolleyes.gif

http://members.shaw.ca/p962/fs.html

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 12 2015, 07:34 PM

Cool! popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: r_towle Mar 12 2015, 08:06 PM

What are you doing with that old body?
I happen to have a chassis that might look really nice with that body on it...

Posted by: gms Mar 12 2015, 08:14 PM

You do realize this is Dave Bottom's old IMSA race car?
This was also a Garretson track car
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Posted by: McMark Mar 12 2015, 08:23 PM

I love the 904. Its a gorgeous car.

But I love the 914 too and that starting point looks like a great car already. This is a tough thread. unsure.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2015, 08:32 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Mar 12 2015, 06:06 PM) *

What are you doing with that old body?
I happen to have a chassis that might look really nice with that body on it...

It's going on the wall of the shop, along with the other relics of cool Porsche past.



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2015, 08:33 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Mar 12 2015, 06:14 PM) *

You do realize this is Dave Bottom's old IMSA race car?
This was also a Garretson track car
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The race history is one of the reason's I bought the car, it has real race provenance, so when I put a checkered flag on the side of the 904 and take it on the track, it's because it was a winner, long before I had it. But I did not know about the IMSA history when I bought it, just that it had won some races in the Midwest.

Posted by: ottox914 Mar 12 2015, 08:34 PM

Very cool. Interesting to see where this goes.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2015, 08:38 PM

QUOTE(McMark @ Mar 12 2015, 06:23 PM) *

I love the 904. Its a gorgeous car.

But I love the 914 too and that starting point looks like a great car already. This is a tough thread. unsure.gif


I love the 914 too, and sorely miss my 914/6 I sold about 10 years ago to free up money to buy my 60 356 Roadster, now real sixes are insane!!!

But I also have a special place in my heart for the 904, and since I can never every afford one I'm taking a page from the Ferry playbook.

"I looked around and could not find quite the car I dreamed of, so I decided to build it myself."

Posted by: dug Mar 13 2015, 12:27 AM

I have all the original body work including that unique rear wing. The hoods, fenders, rockers and bumpers will go on another car with IMSA history, the Metal Craft Bob Zulkowski car. I'll probably mount the wing on the wall:)

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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 13 2015, 05:14 AM

QUOTE(dug @ Mar 12 2015, 10:27 PM) *

I have all the original body work including that unique rear wing. The hoods, fenders, rockers and bumpers will go on another car with IMSA history, the Metal Craft Bob Zulkowski car. I'll probably mount the wing on the wall:)

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Now that's cool!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 13 2015, 05:51 AM

I was a Metal Craft customer and friend. I know Bob Zulkowski and Troy Powell. They worked on 2 of my cars. I really got my love of Sixes from both of their Sixes.

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Mar 13 2015, 09:15 AM

Cool project. I've always wondered how much 904 got carried on to the 914.

If the info I found is correct, the track is very close but the 914's wheelbase is 150mm longer.

How will that work out on the 904 body?

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 13 2015, 11:37 AM

QUOTE(Perry Kiehl @ Mar 13 2015, 11:15 AM) *

Cool project. I've always wondered how much 904 got carried on to the 914.

If the info I found is correct, the track is very close but the 914's wheelbase is 150mm longer.

How will that work out on the 904 body?

About 6", cut the floor down like the VW pan on a dune buggy.

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Mar 13 2015, 11:46 AM

QUOTE
About 6", cut the floor down like the VW pan on a dune buggy.

But the VW bug has a back seat! 6" is a lot to loose, especially if you're tall.

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 13 2015, 11:59 AM



Mod a CFR rear trail arm lower kit and move it forward confused24.gif
Impossible to know with a trial fitting.

I'd be more concerned to see if the front struts will fit. I know they won't fit on a RSK kit.

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 13 2015, 12:04 PM

The RSK kit that I saw they used the front end of a bug and 914 in the rear, total custom tube chassis.
To me, if you run into the same issue, this might be a waste of a perfectly good 914 tub.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 13 2015, 12:19 PM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Mar 13 2015, 10:04 AM) *

The RSK kit that I saw they used the front end of a bug and 914 in the rear, total custom tube chassis.
To me, if you run into the same issue, this might be a waste of a perfectly good 914 tub.


Luckily for everyone I am doing a mock-up on a 914 I paid $300 for years ago, long before I start cutting on this one. I am doing to dry fit everything to the first chassis, this way I make all the bad cuts on the one that doesn't matter.
I don't think anyone will shed a tear over the center seat monster getting sliced and diced. That car has been sitting at the old warehouse for about 7 years, I couldn't bring myself to get rid of it, and now I'm glad I didn't.



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Posted by: 904svo Mar 13 2015, 12:48 PM

I love my copy I equiped it with Subaru WRX engine.
Attached File  1stboot.bmp ( 1.39mb ) Number of downloads: 369

Posted by: screenguy914 Mar 13 2015, 12:49 PM

Seems like after slicing and dicing a race-prepped chassis (removing 6" from wheelbase and/or changing susp. geometry) that has been successfully tested, balanced and raced, you'll be starting all over again. But then again, if you just plan to take it back to VW roots and cruise between stop lights, then go for it. It's your ride.

Posted by: 904svo Mar 13 2015, 02:15 PM

How many people remember the Auto Atlanta 9014?

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Posted by: db9146 Mar 13 2015, 06:53 PM

QUOTE
How many people remember the Auto Atlanta 9014?


Huh, now I think I'm gonna be sick...... icon8.gif

Posted by: Cal Mar 13 2015, 07:11 PM

Here's an interesting 914 / 904....

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=247031&hl=



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 13 2015, 08:57 PM

QUOTE(Cal @ Mar 13 2015, 05:11 PM) *

Here's an interesting 914 / 904....

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=247031&hl=


It's too bad all he has is a before and after pic, nothing about how he did it, or what he did.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Mar 13 2015, 10:06 PM

I'm with Glenn
Waste of a good race car (with history !)
+
Waste of a good looking replica body
Waste of time to create a mis-matched mess

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 13 2015, 10:21 PM

And who said the Gallagher brothers had no vision...

Posted by: rgalla9146 Mar 13 2015, 11:52 PM


Just the opinion of one brother.
My vision ? 20/20

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 24 2015, 06:17 AM

#69 proudly hung in the shop.


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Posted by: gereed75 Mar 24 2015, 06:52 AM

Sorry to butt in, but.....

I also agree with Glenn. Authentic vintage race cars have potential dollar value and nostalgia value for the entire community. Your frankenstein car may come out to be very cool, but will have value only to you.

I have seen a lot of well built 914 track/race cars sell in the recent past with no provenance, why not start with one of those?? confused24.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 24 2015, 08:19 AM

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Mar 24 2015, 04:52 AM) *

Sorry to butt in, but.....

I also agree with Glenn. Authentic vintage race cars have potential dollar value and nostalgia value for the entire community. Your frankenstein car may come out to be very cool, but will have value only to you.

I have seen a lot of well built 914 track/race cars sell in the recent past with no provenance, why not start with one of those?? confused24.gif


I would have, except all the guys with recent builds wanted $25,000-50,000, I picked this car up for $15,000. I also got a lot of guys with half built 914/6 conversions wanting over $20,000. This car represented the best value.

This car was not my first choice, I really wanted an older six conversion that needed cosmetics, but none could be found. I then started looking at race cars and like I said, anything built recently was 2-3 times the money.

If anyone wants to trade their six conversion for this car, I am all ears.

Posted by: Mueller Mar 24 2015, 08:31 AM

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Mar 24 2015, 05:52 AM) *

Sorry to butt in, but.....

I also agree with Glenn. Authentic vintage race cars have potential dollar value and nostalgia value for the entire community. Your frankenstein car may come out to be very cool, but will have value only to you.

I have seen a lot of well built 914 track/race cars sell in the recent past with no provenance, why not start with one of those?? confused24.gif



Key word here.....

At least he is doing something with it, unlike the poor cars in this thread...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=251879


Posted by: gereed75 Mar 24 2015, 09:36 AM

Glenn, Check your PM's thanks

Posted by: gms Mar 24 2015, 12:29 PM

Here you go biggrin.gif
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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 24 2015, 06:29 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Mar 24 2015, 06:31 AM) *

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Mar 24 2015, 05:52 AM) *

Sorry to butt in, but.....

I also agree with Glenn. Authentic vintage race cars have potential dollar value and nostalgia value for the entire community. Your frankenstein car may come out to be very cool, but will have value only to you.

I have seen a lot of well built 914 track/race cars sell in the recent past with no provenance, why not start with one of those?? confused24.gif



Key word here.....

At least he is doing something with it, unlike the poor cars in this thread...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=251879



This car has not seen a track since about 2005, I will return it to driving. The last owner did not drive it, not once. It was also for sale on ebay for a long long time, so anyone who was interested had a chance to buy it. Like I said, this was not my first choice but there was nothing anywhere near the price, not for what I got, a carbed 3.2, with a sequential gearbox.
@gms, are you showing me what a 904 frame looks like? That's great but if I fabbed that up and built it, then it's not a Porsche. If I build this car, it's a Porsche.

Posted by: mepstein Mar 24 2015, 07:27 PM

There were over 120k of these cars made. Plenty to go around. It looks like you have a vision. I hope you will take it to completion. Nothing worse than an unfinished project car. Have fun!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 24 2015, 07:37 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 24 2015, 05:27 PM) *

There were over 120k of these cars made. Plenty to go around. It looks like you have a vision. I hope you will take it to completion. Nothing worse than an unfinished project car. Have fun!


The last car I did came out great, bear in mind this car left the Factory as a 58 A Coupe.

You can read about the whole 5 year build here.


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Posted by: mepstein Mar 24 2015, 07:47 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 24 2015, 09:37 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 24 2015, 05:27 PM) *

There were over 120k of these cars made. Plenty to go around. It looks like you have a vision. I hope you will take it to completion. Nothing worse than an unfinished project car. Have fun!


The last car I did came out great, bear in mind this car left the Factory as a 58 A Coupe.

You can read about the whole 5 year build here.

Link?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 24 2015, 08:28 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 24 2015, 05:47 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 24 2015, 09:37 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 24 2015, 05:27 PM) *

There were over 120k of these cars made. Plenty to go around. It looks like you have a vision. I hope you will take it to completion. Nothing worse than an unfinished project car. Have fun!


The last car I did came out great, bear in mind this car left the Factory as a 58 A Coupe.

You can read about the whole 5 year build here.

Link?


http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28200&hilit=spoodster

Posted by: veekry9 Mar 24 2015, 08:37 PM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGT0LtzT7Jg


Good to see it raced.
tres bon. biggrin.gif


Posted by: veekry9 Mar 24 2015, 08:57 PM

The Orange 904

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=51499


Good to know,a source for a windscreen:

"To continue with the story.
When the front half of the wooden buck was more or less finished, it dawned on me ( I'm not necessarily the sharpest knife in the box) that I needed a windscreen.
It is a lot easier to make the buck fit the windscreen than it is to find a windscreen to fit a buck.
A telephone call to Porsche brought a very sniffy reply as to what chassis number I had and that screens were no longer available but that "plastic"
ones were available in California.At that time an article appeared in "Classic and Sports Car" about a company making screens for classic cars such as Morris Minors, Austin A40s and the like.
The response to my call was that they had never heard of a Porsche 904 but after a few minutes conversation I was told that the computer records showed that there was a mould.
The chap told me that he had been there over 25 years and that the mould had never been out of the rack but he would send me a drawing to check it was the correct item.
I was then told that they could not supply me direct as they had agents throughout the country. I was to order a specific part number from the Scottish agent but also to tell him that I had been told the ex-works price (I was not told the actual price) to avoid the agent adding too much to the selling price. The telephone call was duly made and after a few expletives about the price a deal was done. Six weeks later a screen was delivered. So remember that a mould exists the next time you need a 904 screen!"

http://www.pilkington.com/en-gb/uk/automotive/makes-and-models/porsche --> #6700

Posted by: veekry9 Mar 24 2015, 11:22 PM

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http://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1964-porsche-904-carrera-gts/

The why of it,and the desire for a reasonable facsimile.http://www.ebay.com/bhp/porsche-904
Using a small model of the correct shape is a good place to start for your 904 quest,as a reference with which to compare the results.
Getting the shape right is a primary objective and even minor deviations are plain to see,resulting in dissatisfaction.
914-6+(904)=one nice little mid. biggrin.gif

Posted by: veekry9 Mar 26 2015, 08:14 AM

Ya gotta appreciate the workload ahead,an adaptation of the 914's floorpan to the exotic 904.
Some serious design work to fit a torque box to the chopped 914 bulkheads,to carry the front suspension.
Alain De Cadenet
http://www.streetfire.net/video/victory-by-design-porsche-904-carrera-gts_192088.htm
http://bringatrailer.com/2009/01/29/nicest-weve-seen-porsche-904-gts-clone/
http://bringatrailer.com/2011/10/25/blue-chip-replica-1965-porsche-904-6-cylinder/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My-Lv3fqplU
The Ace of Spades,a fait accompli,and a good indicator of probability of success. thumb3d.gif

Edit:04/11/15
http://scootermcrad.blogspot.ca/2014/07/porsche-904-conception.html
Sum nice pix.
http://rennlist.com/forums/general-porsche-discussions-forum/68030-beck-904-is-it-too-stupid.html
Resistance to change means you are doing something right.

Posted by: Montreal914 Mar 26 2015, 10:19 PM

Very cool project! beer.gif

Who did the body? I like the fact that it has the original wheel arches without the flares that Beck added.

Looking forward to see the progress popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 29 2015, 09:31 PM

QUOTE(Montreal914 @ Mar 26 2015, 08:19 PM) *

Very cool project! beer.gif

Who did the body? I like the fact that it has the original wheel arches without the flares that Beck added.

Looking forward to see the progress popcorn[1].gif

There is a dude in Canada who took the mold off an original. The fact that it isn't flared and doesn't have the wing is why I went with him. The later 904's did have those changes but I wanted one that looked early.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 6 2015, 09:35 AM

Progress is happening. Dropped the race car off at the shop today to swap out the gearboxes. I even had some fun with the center seat parts car!

Hopefully the body will be done by June and then the cutting begins.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 7 2015, 05:11 PM

The body is almost done, can't wait!


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Posted by: mgp4591 May 7 2015, 11:31 PM

I'm looking forward to your build on this- I fell in love with this design by accident years ago. I was living in Maryland for my last 2 years in high school and some of my friends lived in apartments nearby. Someone there owned what I would now consider a Signal Orange (but faded) 904 that I would drool over daily. One night as I was headed home on my bike, I stopped by the car and not seeing anyone around I climbed inside... instead of the sumptuous interiors I'd seen in magazines of Thomassina Ferraris I was greeted with not much more than thinly padded fiberglass buckets, exposed shift mechanisms and no interior door panels, just pull wires for door handles and sliding windows. The sparseness of the car initially turned me off and I never tried my sneaky midnight encounters again, but now looking back I see the wisdom of the design. I still regret never hearing it run but we can't have all our dreams come true... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 23 2015, 02:00 PM

The body finally arrived, getting it was a nightmare with customs issues and having to be handled by no less than 4 different shippers, but it arrived and is safe and sound at Unobtanium HQ. It felt a little like X-mass morning.

The center seat 914 already gave up it's gearbox for the build and will now be cut to ribbons to test fit the body. My thinking is I would rather make all the wrong cuts on the right body, so when it comes time to fit the body on the yellow 914/6 I have worked out all the kinks. A trial run of sorts. I feel a little bad slicing up the 914, but it was so butchered already I figured no-one would ever bring it back, so rather than scrap it at least it's death will help the cause. The old saying of Porsche restoring holds true, some die so others can live.

Look for weekly updates, it's very exciting.


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Posted by: Chris Pincetich Jul 23 2015, 02:12 PM

beerchug.gif
popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 26 2015, 11:06 AM

It's a tight squeeze, and I'm not a big guy, 5'10' and 190 lbs.


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Posted by: porschetub Jul 27 2015, 12:57 AM

Enjoying this one great reading, thats an interesting concept and a sound one @ that,has this been done before ? it makes sense to me.
So you prune back the 914 and bond it to the 904 main front compartment moulding,engine lid pivots somewhere from the rear...is that the basic picture?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 27 2015, 07:50 PM

QUOTE(porschetub @ Jul 26 2015, 10:57 PM) *

Enjoying this one great reading, thats an interesting concept and a sound one @ that,has this been done before ? it makes sense to me.
So you prune back the 914 and bond it to the 904 main front compartment moulding,engine lid pivots somewhere from the rear...is that the basic picture?


Yes, the 904 rear will fall exactly on the firewall of the 914, just like it does on the 904. The distance from the rear wheel to the fire wall is the same on both cars.
It's going to be fun!

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Clone Jul 27 2015, 09:41 PM

I remember seeing a picture of a burned out 904 (maybe South African) and I thought the firewall and "hell hole" area looked very much like a 914. There wasn't much in the way of detail though, and I've always wondered if

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Clone Jul 27 2015, 09:43 PM

I remember seeing a picture of a burned out 904 (maybe South African) and I thought the firewall and "hell hole" area looked very much like a 914. There wasn't much in the way of detail though, and I've always wondered what elements from the 904 may have been carried over to the 914.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 27 2015, 09:55 PM

QUOTE(Perry Kiehl Clone @ Jul 27 2015, 07:43 PM) *

I remember seeing a picture of a burned out 904 (maybe South African) and I thought the firewall and "hell hole" area looked very much like a 914. There wasn't much in the way of detail though, and I've always wondered what elements from the 904 may have been carried over to the 914.

I'm finding a lot of similarities.
This is from 904-0025.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 31 2015, 11:12 PM

The sixer is getting her new gearbox this week. Do you think I need more tire back there?


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 6 2015, 11:16 AM

The gearbox is in, hopefully shake down will be Friday!


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Posted by: madmax914 Aug 6 2015, 05:18 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jul 31 2015, 10:12 PM) *

The sixer is getting her new gearbox this week. Do you think I need more tire back there?


What size and type of wheel are those?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 6 2015, 06:27 PM

QUOTE(madmax914 @ Aug 6 2015, 03:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jul 31 2015, 10:12 PM) *

The sixer is getting her new gearbox this week. Do you think I need more tire back there?


What size and type of wheel are those?


Some racing wheel, they're coming off, I had planned to research them then.

Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 7 2015, 10:58 AM

Wheels look like Jongbloed to me. Those are probably older, but on the current jongbloedracing.com site, the 305 wheel looks like yours ... THey make nice, lightweight wheels.

Scott

Posted by: madmax914 Aug 7 2015, 11:45 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 6 2015, 05:27 PM) *

QUOTE(madmax914 @ Aug 6 2015, 03:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jul 31 2015, 10:12 PM) *

The sixer is getting her new gearbox this week. Do you think I need more tire back there?


What size and type of wheel are those?


Some racing wheel, they're coming off, I had planned to research them then.

Are you selling them?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 7 2015, 03:57 PM

QUOTE
Are you selling them?


Eventually yes, I just need to see what they bring.

Posted by: madmax914 Aug 7 2015, 05:21 PM

Gotta say you've got some pretty cool parts laying around.

I'll quit stocking you for your take-off parts.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 7 2015, 05:55 PM

QUOTE(madmax914 @ Aug 7 2015, 03:21 PM) *

Gotta say you've got some pretty cool parts laying around.

I'll quit stocking you for your take-off parts.

Max-
You should come to the open house on Sept. 5th, there is cool stuff everywhere.



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Posted by: RoadGlue Aug 7 2015, 05:55 PM

I haven't lurked in a while so I'm late to the show. Still have to put in my 2 cents, and they are, "Man, I wish you would have picked a different car to do your Frankenstein build on." You say you care about the car being a Porsche, which is the seemingly only reason you didn't build a frame ground up. Yet you don't give a rat's behind about it being a Porsche. Porsche is more than a name to most of us and the donor car you selected has history. You're not honoring Porsche heritage by building a fake 904 on a perfectly good 914 chassis.

You're going to do what you're going to do, but bleh. You could have selected a different car. No excuses for that.

Have fun.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 7 2015, 06:09 PM

Randy,
I'll make the same arguement to you that I made to everyone else. Everyone wanted $25,000+ for half finished six conversions. Nobody wanted this car, it had been languishing on ebay for months, I got it for $15,000, and sold the gearbox for $5000, so I'm down to $10,000. The car had not been raced in years and was destined to be sitting for many more. I will drive it and maybe race again with it.
When I first got the car I offered to trade it for a tired six conversion if anyone wanted to preserve the heritage, all I heard was crickets.
So in actuality I am saving this car, it was destined to be chopped up for it's parts, which it would have been in a few years time.
As far as preserving history, I am also restoring the 58 A Coupe that won at Daytona in 66, I pulled this one out of the mud, where it was dumped in 69.


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Posted by: gereed75 Aug 7 2015, 08:28 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 7 2015, 08:09 PM) *

Randy,
I'll make the same arguement to you that I made to everyone else. Everyone wanted $25,000+ for half finished six conversions. Nobody wanted this car, it had been languishing on ebay for months, I got it for $15,000, and sold the gearbox for $5000, so I'm down to $10,000. The car had not been raced in years and was destined to be sitting for many more. I will drive it and maybe race again with it.
When I first got the car I offered to trade it for a tired six conversion if anyone wanted to preserve the heritage, all I heard was crickets.
So in actuality I am saving this car, it was destined to be chopped up for it's parts, which it would have been in a few years time.
As far as preserving history, I am also restoring the 58 A Coupe that won at Daytona in 66, I pulled this one out of the mud, where it was dumped in 69.


Matt. Check your PM's.

Posted by: porschetub Aug 7 2015, 11:32 PM

QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Aug 8 2015, 11:55 AM) *

I haven't lurked in a while so I'm late to the show. Still have to put in my 2 cents, and they are, "Man, I wish you would have picked a different car to do your Frankenstein build on." You say you care about the car being a Porsche, which is the seemingly only reason you didn't build a frame ground up. Yet you don't give a rat's behind about it being a Porsche. Porsche is more than a name to most of us and the donor car you selected has history. You're not honoring Porsche heritage by building a fake 904 on a perfectly good 914 chassis.

You're going to do what you're going to do, but bleh. You could have selected a different car. No excuses for that.

Have fun.

I don't think your comments aren't valid ,Adam has a lot of history in the Porsche resto world, and he has pointed that out clearly what he is doing,get over it man ..really ,wait till the car is finished and then make comment,can't see it being a hack job.
Use google and have a good look @ some REALLY horrible things done to ANY Porsche and come down to earth biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Its going to be another Porsche with a differant set of clothes afterall...nothing more than that,cheers.

Posted by: porschetub Aug 7 2015, 11:36 PM

QUOTE(porschetub @ Aug 8 2015, 05:32 PM) *

QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Aug 8 2015, 11:55 AM) *

I haven't lurked in a while so I'm late to the show. Still have to put in my 2 cents, and they are, "Man, I wish you would have picked a different car to do your Frankenstein build on." You say you care about the car being a Porsche, which is the seemingly only reason you didn't build a frame ground up. Yet you don't give a rat's behind about it being a Porsche. Porsche is more than a name to most of us and the donor car you selected has history. You're not honoring Porsche heritage by building a fake 904 on a perfectly good 914 chassis.

You're going to do what you're going to do, but bleh. You could have selected a different car. No excuses for that.

Have fun.

I don't think your comments aren't valid ,Adam has a lot of history in the Porsche resto world, and he has pointed that out clearly what he is doing,get over it man ..really ,wait till the car is finished and then make comment,can't see it being a hack job.
Use google and have a good look @ some REALLY horrible things done to ANY Porsche and come down to earth biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Its going to be another Porsche with a differant set of clothes afterall...nothing more than that,cheers.


Posted by: dug Aug 19 2015, 07:08 AM

Ok, I am actually offering to save this car. This deal will only cost you the time for the chassis' to get transported. I have a very highly built 914-6 race chassis (conversion but so is this car) that I am offering in trade. As I posted earlier, I already have the original Garretson's body work and rare early Gotti wheels. I was going to use it on the MetalCraft car, but it can still be used for molds. It belongs on this car, and this car belongs in vintage racing. The Garretson team was an IMSA championship and Le Mans winning team. This car was the car they built after Walt Maas won the 1976 IMSA GTU championship. It deserves to be preserved. So what if the last guy didn't care about it? So what if it might change your build timeline a little? Is that worth ruining a 40 year old piece of history that doesn't have far to go to be as raced?

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Posted by: gereed75 Aug 19 2015, 07:46 AM



Here is a similar non historic chassis to build on for similar dollars http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=262320

Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 19 2015, 10:43 AM

Here's one that's only $2000! Does need and engine and some parts to complete though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181835800655?forcerRptr=true&item=181835800655&viewitem=

Posted by: RoadGlue Aug 19 2015, 11:07 AM

QUOTE(dug @ Aug 19 2015, 06:08 AM) *

Ok, I am actually offering to save this car. This deal will only cost you the time for the chassis' to get transported. I have a very highly built 914-6 race chassis (conversion but so is this car) that I am offering in trade. As I posted earlier, I already have the original Garretson's body work and rare early Gotti wheels. I was going to use it on the MetalCraft car, but it can still be used for molds. It belongs on this car, and this car belongs in vintage racing. The Garretson team was an IMSA championship and Le Mans winning team. This car was the car they built after Walt Maas won the 1976 IMSA GTU championship. It deserves to be preserved. So what if the last guy didn't care about it? So what if it might change your build timeline a little? Is that worth ruining a 40 year old piece of history that doesn't have far to go to be as raced?



smilie_pokal.gif pray.gif wub.gif aktion035.gif beerchug.gif

Posted by: Chris914n6 Aug 19 2015, 02:31 PM

Take dug's offer. No peer pressure biggrin.gif

It looks like the price was right on this car, but it's the wrong chassis for your project. Any average 914 can have the -6 mounts welded in, bolt on a few parts, cut what you don't need and have a 904 that didn't sacrifice history in the process.

OT- What's the story with all the bathtubs?

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Aug 19 2015, 03:07 PM

QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Aug 7 2015, 07:55 PM) *

I haven't lurked in a while so I'm late to the show. Still have to put in my 2 cents, and they are, "Man, I wish you would have picked a different car to do your Frankenstein build on." You say you care about the car being a Porsche, which is the seemingly only reason you didn't build a frame ground up. Yet you don't give a rat's behind about it being a Porsche. Porsche is more than a name to most of us and the donor car you selected has history. You're not honoring Porsche heritage by building a fake 904 on a perfectly good 914 chassis.

You're going to do what you're going to do, but bleh. You could have selected a different car. No excuses for that.

Have fun.



agree.gif I'm not bashing you, but I think what you're planning to do could have easily been done on a roller, or something without history. There are a ton of people who show up on this forum with pipe dreams of what they want, start cutting a car up, then abandon it... so I'm a little biased. I rarely believe anyone until I see the car actually done. You have a nice graveyard, but like many of them I have seen, it looks like most of those cars are destined to rust away out there because of lack of time.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Aug 19 2015, 07:14 PM

The OP is not in the restoration business.
He buys and sell cars and parts.
This project is most likely being done because the car and parts were available for the right price.
Glenn knows the right and wrong here.
A race car with documented participation and performance has value and will always be significant. And should be preserved. The better the job and the documentation the greater the likelihood of wider recognition.
Others seem to agree.
Also, to me it's a goofy mashup.
A 904 with 10 " wide tires in front and 14" in rear ?
Or a 914 race car with 6" wides all around ?


Posted by: Mike Bellis Aug 19 2015, 07:18 PM

Lots of bickering here. As much as I empathize with saving a (possibly) historic car... It's his car! Chop it up. Grind it up. Part it out. Do what you want with it. I want to see the finished 904. happy11.gif

Posted by: Dave_Darling Aug 19 2015, 09:31 PM

This reminds me of all the grief us Left Coasters used to get from folks in the Rust Belt for cutting up so-so condition cars. We would practically hear screaming on the boards here--"that could be saved", and "that car is better than my driver!" But when the cars were offered for sale, the same Rust Belt folks were nowhere to be found.

To most who are complaining, I say: Put up or shut up.

To Dug, I say: Way to put up! I hope he takes you up on your offer, so a car with race history can be preserved.

--DD

Posted by: bigkensteele Aug 19 2015, 09:32 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Aug 19 2015, 05:18 PM) *

Lots of bickering here. As much as I empathize with saving a (possibly) historic car... It's his car! Chop it up. Grind it up. Part it out. Do what you want with it. I want to see the finished 904. happy11.gif

I agree. This isn't the car that Michael Schumacher won his 7th world championship in. It is an old race car that was put out to pasture and subsequently bought by the current owner. Every one of the folks bitching about it being cut up had the same chance to buy it that he did. If it was that important, they would have bought it then, or they would be making offers now.

I was in Rome a few years ago and actually got a tour from the daughter of a previous mayor to the city. They find history to be a complete pain in the ass when it comes to development.

The eye of the beholder ain't always the owner.

Posted by: gms Aug 19 2015, 11:39 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 7 2015, 07:09 PM) *

...As far as preserving history, I am also restoring the 58 A Coupe that won at Daytona in 66, I pulled this one out of the mud, where it was dumped in 69.

if that is Dave McClain's #19 car from the 1966 24 hrs of Daytona, it DNF 80 laps in with a gearbox problem.
I hope we will see this 356 on the track again some day!

Posted by: Cracker Aug 20 2015, 06:11 AM

Don't even pay a moments notice to the naysayers. I'd just start ignoring the ridiculous posts telling you what to do, what not to do and why. Enjoy whatever you do: the process, the designing, the details and the driving. I just hope you can "sit up straight" - at 6'5" tall, I believe I'd be a little cramped!

Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 20 2015, 01:26 PM

put him in the comphy chair. nobody expects the comphy chair.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 21 2015, 11:44 AM

QUOTE(dug @ Aug 19 2015, 05:08 AM) *

Ok, I am actually offering to save this car. This deal will only cost you the time for the chassis' to get transported. I have a very highly built 914-6 race chassis (conversion but so is this car) that I am offering in trade. As I posted earlier, I already have the original Garretson's body work and rare early Gotti wheels. I was going to use it on the MetalCraft car, but it can still be used for molds. It belongs on this car, and this car belongs in vintage racing. The Garretson team was an IMSA championship and Le Mans winning team. This car was the car they built after Walt Maas won the 1976 IMSA GTU championship. It deserves to be preserved. So what if the last guy didn't care about it? So what if it might change your build timeline a little? Is that worth ruining a 40 year old piece of history that doesn't have far to go to be as raced?

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D-
Since you decided to post publicly what we had been talking about privately I tell you again what I told you. I really wish you or someone had made this offer before my 904 body was finished and before I had dropped thousands into the car. Your original offer to trade chassis wasn't going to work because I have spent a lot of money getting this car sorted, so I would have to do that all over again. Not to mention it would put me months behind on the build.
Like I said before, this car sat on ebay for 6 months with no one wanting it, everyone of you guys could have bought it, but you didn't. Had I not bought it the car would still be sitting under a tarp in a FL backyard sinking into the earth. So it's easy to throw rocks now about what I should do with MY CAR, but I didn't dig this car out of some obscure location under the noses of all the true believers, it was on EBAY, for the world to see or buy, but no one bought it but me. And now that I have sunk thousands into the car and am ready to begin my build the peanut gallery wants to poke sticks.
Concerning a couple of points.
1. About my "graveyard", anyone who knows Unobtanium knows if you stop here from year to year the cars are different cars, they get sold to people who are restoring them.
2. In terms of me not finishing cars, you may be right, the Spoodster sold before I could even finish it, because a guy loved the build I had done, he is finishing it in Australia. But believe you me, I spent 5 years working on that car, when everyone said it couldn't be done or that I didn't have the skills to do it. Well, I built that car and had guys fighting over who was going to buy it.
3. Concerning whether or not I am a restoration shop, I'm not, I make my living buying and selling Porsches, mostly 356's, but I got into this because of my love of the cars, and when I'm not pumping cars across the world I work on my own projects, this 904 is the latest one. After that is the aluminum 550 Spyder, after that will be the A Coupe Daytona car, and after that I have a one owner painted dash 65 912 that needs some love. Luckily, I'm only 40 and have time on my side.

Bottom line, it's my car, and it's my car because no one wanted it. Still no one has offered to buy it from me for any real money, the only offer is Dug's trade which would put me thousands down the toilet to get back to what might be square one. Even Dug said he can't throw any money at the deal.
So I should lose thousands of dollars to make a few of you guys happy? Really?

Posted by: scotty b Aug 21 2015, 11:58 AM

You eat puppies for breakfast don't you ? dry.gif


BLASPHEMER !!! mad.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 21 2015, 01:14 PM

QUOTE(scotty b @ Aug 21 2015, 09:58 AM) *

You eat puppies for breakfast don't you ? dry.gif


BLASPHEMER !!! mad.gif


Sometimes, but my favorite pastime is kidnapping pretty boys from VA.
"Hey pretty man, want to see some shiny wheels in the back of big daddy's window-less van..."
Works every time, look at this cutey!


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Posted by: Dave_Darling Aug 21 2015, 02:11 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 21 2015, 10:44 AM) *
Like I said before, this car sat on ebay for 6 months with no one wanting it, everyone of you guys could have bought it, but you didn't.


agree.gif

--DD

Posted by: dug Aug 21 2015, 02:39 PM

You started this thread to tell the world you'd be cuttin up a historic race car for your project. I'm surprised that you're surprised people actually care. I didn't have the money to save the car when it was on ebay. You keep using that as justification for your decision to cut it up.

The car hsan't been cut yet. And you haven't spent any money modifying the chassis yet. In fact you got money back out of it by selling parts. What I'm offering won't take months to accomplish. And it sounds like you have four other projects and plenty of car related work to do in the mean time.

So what it sounds like you're saying to all of us that care is simply, you don't care about the history and you're going to cut it up anyway. The rest is just justification to ease your conclscience.

And just in case it was unclear. I'm offering to pay shipping both ways, and swap the engine over. That's not costing you anything. Where do you lose thousands?

cheers,
dug

Posted by: RobW Aug 21 2015, 03:01 PM

I've met Bob G. Great guy, a true Porsche enthusiast. I'd love to see a happy ending here.

Porsche is about the people.

That said the man with the title and the man with the gold makes the call.

Good luck

Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 21 2015, 03:07 PM

Gawd, let the guy build HIS car and go away. You may not agree with what he is doing, but enough with the naysaying. I see so many iterations of the 914 here that look like crap to me, but I keep my opinions to myself. Heck, people probably think my build is stupid, so what?

On with the build!!!!!

I don't see this guy as someone who is going to cut up a car and let it sit.

Posted by: gms Aug 21 2015, 03:09 PM

agree.gif
Adam, you seem like a reasonable guy
can't something be done to make this happen???
a couple more minutes with Scott in the van??
huh.gif

Posted by: gms Aug 21 2015, 03:12 PM

I didn't want to do this but if you don't do this deal I have a 540 in the yard I am going to sawzall-smiley.gif

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Just sayin

Posted by: dug Aug 21 2015, 03:55 PM

I just wanted to say, I think putting a 904 body on a 914 is a very cool idea. I even contacted the guy in Canada that makes the 904 body myself to find out what it would cost when I heard about his work last year.

I think everyone here thinks it could end up being an amazing car. Some of us just think it's a shame that another equally amazing car has to die in the process.

If it was only about the money for us, then Glenn and I would be cheering you on. There are only around 36 914s that ever ran an IMSA race, and I own one and Glenn owns more than one. So you're really doing us a favor. Now I have 1 of 35:)

All of my arguing is just an effort to sway you toward wanting to save it. If you perceived it any other way, as an attack or an insult, that is a byproduct of my poor political skills and was not my intent.

And for everyone who says "stop telling him not to do it," I say, that is exactly what a public forum is for. Everyone gets to have an opinion. Adam's is just as valid as mine. If you don't have a strong enough ego to handle people disagreeing with you, then stay in your garage and stay off the internet. If you want to show off your project, be prepared for some criticism to come with the congratulations. If you do something controversial, get ready for some more.

I wanted a real 914-6 GT, or as real as I could afford. So I started by finding a 914-6 that had been previously flared. I didn't want to cut a pristine car to make the modification because they are so rare. It took me more time, but my conscience is satisfied enough to air it publicly. It won't bother me at all if someone tells me I should have restored it to original.

So Adam has every right to say the same thing. The way I see it, he opened the door to saving the car when he asked for an alternate chassis. Now I am just trying my hardest to keep that door open.

cheers,
dug

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Aug 21 2015, 04:32 PM

Holy Crap - make the deal or don't . . .

I've often though of cutting up my rust bucket and putting a Beck body on it . . . this is an awesome idea. . . can we please get back to the build?

How cool would it be to make the 904 body just a little larger for us taller guys, that could fit the teener a whole lot better.


Posted by: Old Yella Aug 21 2015, 06:30 PM

I'll stay out of the argument but can I have those dirty old tan seats in the back of ya van for 50 bucks.

Posted by: JmuRiz Aug 21 2015, 06:34 PM

Glenn: you don't really have an American Roadster do you?!

Posted by: garrettlee2 Aug 21 2015, 08:35 PM

last year I cut a 904 in half and put a 914 on top and no one bitched. whats the big deal its not a factory race car, plus ever car that gets cut makes mine worth more.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 21 2015, 09:23 PM

QUOTE(dug @ Aug 21 2015, 12:39 PM) *

You started this thread to tell the world you'd be cuttin up a historic race car for your project. I'm surprised that you're surprised people actually care. I didn't have the money to save the car when it was on ebay. You keep using that as justification for your decision to cut it up.

The car hsan't been cut yet. And you haven't spent any money modifying the chassis yet. In fact you got money back out of it by selling parts. What I'm offering won't take months to accomplish. And it sounds like you have four other projects and plenty of car related work to do in the mean time.

So what it sounds like you're saying to all of us that care is simply, you don't care about the history and you're going to cut it up anyway. The rest is just justification to ease your conclscience.

And just in case it was unclear. I'm offering to pay shipping both ways, and swap the engine over. That's not costing you anything. Where do you lose thousands?

cheers,
dug


Dug-
As I explained to you over email, since buying the car I put thousands swapping the gearbox and having the car sorted, so if I shipped the car to you, someone I don't know, and have you work on it, not knowing anything about your skill set, and get the car back and there is a problem, do I ship it back to Cali for a tune-up? Your idea is way too out there to be feasible, too many chances for things to go sideways. Not to mention flushing all the money I have already spent down the toilet, only to get a car back from you that I know nothing about.
The big question I guess is why am I supposed to take the $$$ hit on this? I'm the guy who bought a car no one either wanted or wanted to spend any money on.
I haven't been active on this board since I sold my 914/6 back in 2007. But when I wanted a six conversion for this project the first place I went was here. You know what I got offered, at least a half dozen un-finished half assed six conversions that ranged in price from $20,000 to over $30,000. So obviously, no one was going to take a hit on their car, but somehow I'm supposed to take a hit when people want me to give up my car. And don't tell me what I care or don't care about, that's like me telling you if you really cared about this car and it's history you would have sold all your other cars to buy it, but I'm not inside your head or your wallet, so how about you stay out of mine.

Posted by: Cracker Aug 21 2015, 09:28 PM

...I hate to break-it-to-you Dug but I really don't think he's going to change his mind. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: bigkensteele Aug 21 2015, 09:51 PM

QUOTE(dug @ Aug 21 2015, 01:55 PM) *

I just wanted to say, I think putting a 904 body on a 914 is a very cool idea...

I think everyone here thinks it could end up being an amazing car. Some of us just think it's a shame that another equally amazing car has to die in the process.

... There are only around 36 914s that ever ran an IMSA race...

Do we know if the car ever won an IMSA race, much less finished one? Could it be possible that the importance of this particular car may be a bit overstated in some of the pleas to save it?

As far as I know, I am the only person in history to carry my exact name. Does that mean I owe it to society to donate my body to the Smithsonian, and do they owe it to society to display it?

I get it. I really do. I love history, especially old buildings, houses and architecture in general. I cringe when a beautiful old mansion is modernized to make it livable (and safe) in today's world, and I absolutely hate it when historical buildings or homes are razed in the name of progress. However, I also believe in community and the free market. If a property (or car) is important enough to be saved, a community will form and coalesce to save it. If not, as much as it may pain some, progress will swallow history. It has been this way since the beginning, and unfortunately, it will always be so.

If it helps, this will be the first 904 replica with IMSA history. first.gif

Posted by: dug Aug 21 2015, 10:07 PM

Adam-

You have never asked for my credentials, nor asked who would do the work.

I consider the door shut. It was worth a few emails, texts and phone calls and even some public forum posts to see if I could make it happen. I can now sleep at night knowing I made an effort.

To those that asked... No it did not win an IMSA race. No one ever said it did.

cheers,
dug

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 21 2015, 10:32 PM

QUOTE

Do we know if the car ever won an IMSA race, much less finished one? Could it be possible that the importance of this particular car may be a bit overstated in some of the pleas to save it?


If it helps, this will be the first 904 replica with IMSA history. first.gif


The car did win at Mid-Ohio, and took the checker a few other times in the Ozark Region, but this was recent history.

Posted by: RobW Aug 22 2015, 04:42 AM

FWIW - Dug is a stand up guy who is passionate about our make.

Time to move on. welder.gif

Posted by: gereed75 Aug 22 2015, 09:38 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 22 2015, 12:32 AM) *
QUOTE

Do we know if the car ever won an IMSA race, much less finished one? Could it be possible that the importance of this particular car may be a bit overstated in some of the pleas to save it?

If it helps, this will be the first 904 replica with IMSA history. first.gif


The car did win at Mid-Ohio, and took the checker a few other times in the Ozark Region, but this was recent history.


Adam, I think there is a big distinction between the car being for sale on Ebay and no one wanted it enough to buy it and now trying to save it from destruction. When the Ebay seller had it, it raced fairly recently and it was not slated for the knife. It is now.

Of course it is your car, you can do what you want, but I think that if you really gave it some objective thought and reason prevailed and you had a bonefide alternative, that the better course is to save it.

Any tub will work for your purposes, there are only so many IMSA history cars.

Good luck with the build.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 22 2015, 09:49 AM

It does seem like any tub would do and the owner obviously has Porsche connections for needed parts.

Personally, I would trade one of the 356's or 911's for some cash or fab work for a 904 chassis.

But Its his car. sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif smash.gif driving.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 22 2015, 10:06 AM

You're right guys, any tub would work, except I needed a running and driving six cylinder car. When I wasn't finding anything even remotely affordable on this board and other places I approached several known builders about bringing them a good chassis and having them build it into a six. They were all very receptive and quoted me around $30,000 for a running driving car.
So this car was my only affordable alternative. It was last raced in 2007, so it had been put out to pasture a long time ago.
When I first posted here I said I would gladly trade the car for a running six conversion, even one with horrible cosmetics, since I was going to skin the car and interior anyway. No takers.
And as to why I didn't just fab up a 904 frame or buy a Beck, it's because when I'm done building those I don't have a Porsche. When I'm done with this car, it's still a Porsche with Porsche DNA. While that might not be important to some, it is very important to me. I kind of channel Dr. Porsche when I build my cars.



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Posted by: Chris914n6 Aug 22 2015, 04:15 PM

I think this whole conversation is mute. If putting a real 904 body on a 914 was feasible somebody would have done it during the past 40 years.

There is absolutely nothing difficult about welding (or bolting) a -6 engine mount to a -4 chassis. The expensive part is the 911 engine and related pieces.

The IMSA chassis, body and susp are worth more. You are going to have to swap out the susp anyways, it's going to be way too stiff for a 904.

Posted by: bandjoey Aug 22 2015, 06:16 PM

O! Come on U guys! lets get on with the build! more pictures. cant wait to see it running.

piratenanner.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 22 2015, 06:46 PM

Rest assured guys, long before I take any blades to the yellow chassis, I am doing all the cuts on the center seat car to dry fit the body. If I cant make it work I will put the yellow car up for sale because I won't need it.

Posted by: MMW Aug 22 2015, 07:05 PM

I can't wait to see this project move along. Adam's projects usually are pretty cool.

I never realized 914 guys could be like 356 guys. I guess it happens to any make/model as prices rise.

Adam wrote - "If I cant make it work I will put the yellow car up for sale because I won't need it." -- Should be easy to sell as several posters here will save it.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 22 2015, 10:10 PM

Mic-
You coming to the open house on the 5th, let me know, I'll save you a place on the front row.
If anyone else wants to come out, free food, and you can check out the whole operation.


Unobtanium Open House
Saturday, September 5th, 2015
12pm to 3pm


I want to invite everyone out to our 2nd Annual Open House at our location in scenic Ravena, NY. We have finally moved our whole operation from the old leather factory in Gloversville, NY. Cars that have not seen the light of day in over a decade are now back in the sun.

There is plenty of parking that is super safe as the Police Station is the only other building on our dead end street. We encourage everyone to bring their Porsche, but if you can't please bring yourself and a few friends. We will have food and drink on hand and the Unobtanium crew of Adam, Matt, and Big John will be there to answer any questions. We might even talk Big John into doing some feats of great strength!

The warehouse normally has 15-20 early Porsche projects to look at as well as shelf after shelf of parts for all your restoration needs. You won't be disappointed if Porsche 356's and early 9 series cars are your passion. In addition, some of our personal collection will be on hand like the 356 A Coupe that won Daytona in 1966. You can also check out the latest shop project - we are converting a 914-6 into a 904 using a real 904 body!

We are hoping Wray from Proshaper can come out with the latest metal he is shaping for our aluminum 550 Spyder project. His website is http://www.proshaper.com if you want to check out his work.

If you want to see pics from last year's open house you can check them out on our blog:

https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/

Last year we lined the street in so many Porsches you would have thought you were in Germany! The shop address is:
Unobtanium
14 W Shore St.
Ravena, NY 12143
518-705-1355
Hope to see you there!




Adam Wright


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Posted by: Mike Bellis Aug 22 2015, 10:12 PM

Can we get back to building the 904 already? confused24.gif

I want to see more progress pictures...

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 22 2015, 10:20 PM

Mike-
It was a busy week last week, picked up 29 356's in one swoop, so I was out most of the week, as the song goes, "on the road again"

Posted by: KELTY360 Aug 22 2015, 11:57 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 22 2015, 09:20 PM) *

Mike-
It was a busy week last week, picked up 29 356's in one swoop, so I was out most of the week, as the song goes, "on the road again"


...picked up 29 356's in one swoop? Now that's what I call a feat of strength!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 23 2015, 08:11 AM

Marc-
I had Big John with me, he's the strong one.


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Posted by: r_towle Aug 23 2015, 09:05 AM

Adam cutting up a car? WTF.gif

What is going on here??? bs.gif

This is not right chair.gif

Modifying a 914 to unique owner specs? happy11.gif

Adam,,of you need help, setup a party so we can come cut up some sheet metal and get that body mounted already...

Have it on the test mule by open house....


Rich

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 23 2015, 03:21 PM

Do what you will. The 928 guys are seeing chevy V8 cars now regularly. That's fine. Anyone that wants to take a 25k car and make it into a 10k car can do as they will. You say you couldn't spend 20k on a project yet your willing to erase history and likely investment value to build a kit car. After all, no matter what you do your not building a real 904... Where's the Porsche lineage?

From an engineering standpoint if you change the length of the car your changing a lot more than the length. The time invested in building a proper chassis would far outweigh the amount of work you will encounter trying to unfix the altered wheelbase. And a proper tube chassis will be lighter, stronger, more aesthetically pleasing and far more tunable than a chopped up unit body. You quote Ferry. He didn't put his stamp of approval on a cut up unit body car when the 904 project underwent development. But hey... as the Chinese say. You can't tell someone something their not ready to hear.

Flame on. Respectfully I need to say my perception of engineering goes way beyond the quick and dirty.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 23 2015, 06:15 PM

Rick-
A couple of things.
1. I don't think you or a few others really understand what I'm doing. I bought a car that was at the end of the line, obsolete in racing, had already been sitting for 8 years since it last saw the track, and it took the guy 6 months on the world's largest marketplace to sell it, meaning nobody wanted it. I'm taking a car no one wants and making it in the long tradition of a Porsche Special, this goes back to the beginning of the Marque. I'm re-inventing something that the world has deemed obsolete and making it desirable once again. I already have two offers to buy when I am finished, one of which bought my last "special" Da Spoodster.
2. Everyone is going on and on about the history, which will be preserved in any real sense by the car still being used, which it wouldn't have been if I hadn't of bought it. It's not like it would have ever raced again, it's was completely obsolete in it's last clas of GT3, because it was getting smoked by real GT3's. The Hewland gearbox upgrade was the last gasp for this car.
3. A certain group is screaming of what a tragedy my project is, yet not one person has made a real offer to buy the car and thus "save" it. So my original truth still holds true, it's a car no one really wants.
4. I fail to see how this is a "kit car", it's a Porsche body down to the last millimeter, put this body next to an original fiberglass 904 and find a difference, there isn't one. I am putting it on a Porsche chassis, using nothing but Porsche components, and it retains a Porsche VIN. I fail to see how this isn't a Porsche. That's like saying an Abarth isn't a 356.

So 50 years from now then this car is still being traded around due to it's uniqueness, long after the yellow 914 would have been stripped for the guts and left behind someone's shop to rot, you guys can come back and thank me for my vision.


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Posted by: wndsnd Aug 23 2015, 06:21 PM

Does nothing for me.


Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 23 2015, 06:39 PM

QUOTE(wndsnd @ Aug 23 2015, 07:21 PM) *

Does nothing for me.

agree.gif yawn.gif quick and dirty

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Aug 23 2015, 06:50 PM

PM sent - 356 related . . .

Posted by: gms Aug 23 2015, 06:55 PM

Adam is there a build thread for "Da Spoodster"
BTW there might be a copyright infringement using "Da" to describe anything outside of Chicago

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 23 2015, 07:02 PM

Here is the thread for Da Spoodster

<http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28200&hilit=spoodster>

http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28200&hilit=spoodster


There are a lot of parallels between the two projects, no one wanted the wide body monster that I started with building Da Spoodster, but there was a line waiting before I even got it done.

Posted by: warpig Aug 23 2015, 07:13 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 23 2015, 05:15 PM) *

Rick-

So 50 years from now then this car is still being traded around due to it's uniqueness, long after the yellow 914 would have been stripped for the guts and left behind someone's shop to rot, you guys can come back and thank me for my vision.


I prefer not to wait 50 years, Thanks for doing this. aktion035.gif

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Aug 23 2015, 07:17 PM

Adam I have to ask how far have you looked through this project? The 904 is wider and shorter like 6" Where do you plan on removing the 6"in the length?. This will have to come out of the passenger compartment somewhere. The 904 is also wider. The wheelbase is different. This car will end up being such a hack job if you really don't complete a real blueprint with dimensions. You are going to end up with another hack job like the center drive car. Clearly that was one done without any real thought. No one appreciates that vision. The body of the 904 is one of the most beautiful cars ever made. This could end up looking like a cheap "Kit car". By the time you do all the hacking to make this work and money spent, you could have constructed a perfectly fitted tube frame that will function better. than the 914 ever could. I suggest a taking deep breath and giving additional thought to the full process. If you want people to appreciate your vision, do it right.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Aug 23 2015, 07:46 PM

Why is everyone giving this guy so much shit? Leave his alone so he can build his car, his way.

Too many armchair quarterbacks around here... dry.gif

Posted by: Spoke Aug 23 2015, 07:56 PM

I get disappointed every time I open this thread and the content isn't about the build. Let's all just sit back, crack open a cold one, and enjoy the work going on.

Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see this thing come alive.

Posted by: bigkensteele Aug 23 2015, 08:15 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Aug 23 2015, 05:46 PM) *

Why is everyone giving this guy so much shit? Leave his alone so he can build his car, his way.

Too many armchair quarterbacks around here... dry.gif

agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif

I want to see this thing come together. It's not like he is cutting up Fangio's last ride. It is an old, tired, obsolete race car of which there are many, many out there. That part of the argument, I think, is over. Or should be. Nobody wanted it, he bought it, it is his, move on.

As for the dimensions and engineering, isn't that what we wait with baited breath for in a good build thread? Can't we just wait to see how he overcomes the challenges ahead? Please?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 23 2015, 08:21 PM

That's why I'm slicing up the center seat car first, to see if I can do it, if I don't, no harm done. I will decide what to do with the yellow car and figure out another way.

Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 23 2015, 08:26 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 23 2015, 08:15 PM) *

Rick-
A couple of things.
1. I don't think you or a few others really understand what I'm doing. I bought a car that was at the end of the line, obsolete in racing, had already been sitting for 8 years since it last saw the track, and it took the guy 6 months on the world's largest marketplace to sell it, meaning nobody wanted it. I'm taking a car no one wants and making it in the long tradition of a Porsche Special, this goes back to the beginning of the Marque. I'm re-inventing something that the world has deemed obsolete and making it desirable once again. I already have two offers to buy when I am finished, one of which bought my last "special" Da Spoodster.
2. Everyone is going on and on about the history, which will be preserved in any real sense by the car still being used, which it wouldn't have been if I hadn't of bought it. It's not like it would have ever raced again, it's was completely obsolete in it's last clas of GT3, because it was getting smoked by real GT3's. The Hewland gearbox upgrade was the last gasp for this car.
3. A certain group is screaming of what a tragedy my project is, yet not one person has made a real offer to buy the car and thus "save" it. So my original truth still holds true, it's a car no one really wants.
4. I fail to see how this is a "kit car", it's a Porsche body down to the last millimeter, put this body next to an original fiberglass 904 and find a difference, there isn't one. I am putting it on a Porsche chassis, using nothing but Porsche components, and it retains a Porsche VIN. I fail to see how this isn't a Porsche. That's like saying an Abarth isn't a 356.

So 50 years from now then this car is still being traded around due to it's uniqueness, long after the yellow 914 would have been stripped for the guts and left behind someone's shop to rot, you guys can come back and thank me for my vision.


It's a cool project. You bought and paid for everything so you can do what you want.
I would have to disagree that it was a car that no one wants. That market is very limited and timing is everything. Many may want it, vintage racing is all the rage and for good reason. It's a lot of fun. That car has a history.
All I think anyone is saying is that they wish you wouldn't sacrifice a car with history to do this.
Here's an example of a car that was at the end of its run. No one wanted it. It was abandoned at Road Atlanta. This picture was taken by our own Paul Woodbury (Ury914). It was purchased by Adam Carolla and restored by Les Canaday at Classic Datsun Motorsports.
Again, do what you want. But the dissenters have a point...


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 23 2015, 08:30 PM

Well, if someone really wants it, I'm not hard to find, so far, lots of tears and hand wringing, but no signs of a checkbook.

Posted by: wingnut86 Aug 23 2015, 08:41 PM

Geezus.

This is why I left the Pontiac threads after so many years.

AND, those guys got their asses kicked out of GM!

...unfairly I might add (69' was my favorite year - NO, not position).

Anyone remember "The9XXClub"?????

And people laugh when I suddenly want to build a boat bootyshake.gif

Scotty, you sick muppet...

I AGREE Adam:bullshit:

And, there's always Club NARP...

From South Carolina, where being 1st in many things, ...and last in others is, well, can be a real Bummer.

Dave B.

Posted by: Garland Aug 23 2015, 08:41 PM

Enjoy it, or just be entertained, not that there's anything wrong with that! To each his own. smile.gif

"The yellow 914 would have been stripped for the guts and left behind someone's shop to rot."

True since no one else wanted it, most likely it would go for parts.
And if they did (let's make this simple) if you snoozed you lost! 6 months, really, you missed out. For those of you that were going to buy it, and not swap out any parts, how big is your collection? And how did you miss this one?

If you were selling your, car. And you couldn't sell it ,with out parting it out. You would put it in storage till somehow you got a offer, or went broke, or, you died first?
He sold it!

Personally, I'll chatch a episode from time to time, as with all else here.

I sold my bike to a kid down the street, 3 days later, it was repainted, with different handle bars, I was horrified. I was 12.



Posted by: wingnut86 Aug 23 2015, 08:58 PM

DUDE, not the fancy Evil Knievel version with the dope tank sheeplove.gif

...course I was into girls, OP gear & new Bones wheel on my skateboard by then.

"Can't We All Just Get Along" beerchug.gif


QUOTE(Garland @ Aug 23 2015, 10:41 PM) *

Enjoy it, or just be entertained, not that there's anything wrong with that! To each his own. smile.gif

"The yellow 914 would have been stripped for the guts and left behind someone's shop to rot."

True since no one else wanted it, most likely it would go for parts.
And if they did (let's make this simple) if you snoozed you lost! 6 months, really, you missed out. For those of you that were going to buy it, and not swap out any parts, how big is your collection? And how did you miss this one?

If you were selling your, car. And you couldn't sell it ,with out parting it out. You would put it in storage till somehow you got a offer, or went broke, or, you died first?
He sold it!

Personally, I'll chatch a episode from time to time, as with all else here.

I sold my bike to a kid down the street, 3 days later, it was repainted, with different handle bars, I was horrified. I was 12.


Posted by: wingnut86 Aug 23 2015, 09:00 PM

Two thoughts Rich:

1- That's some funny Shite you typed piratenanner.gif

2- Where are them damn greedy Admins when you need them blink.gif

Dave B.


QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 23 2015, 11:05 AM) *

Adam cutting up a car? WTF.gif

What is going on here??? bs.gif

This is not right chair.gif

Modifying a 914 to unique owner specs? happy11.gif

Adam,,of you need help, setup a party so we can come cut up some sheet metal and get that body mounted already...

Have it on the test mule by open house....


Rich


Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 23 2015, 09:02 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 23 2015, 10:30 PM) *

Well, if someone really wants it, I'm not hard to find, so far, lots of tears and hand wringing, but no signs of a checkbook.


Really? Crying? I don't see anyone crying. Just having a discussion about the wisdom of cutting up a car with history.

I said it in the first sentence. Do what you want.

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 23 2015, 09:19 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Aug 23 2015, 10:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 23 2015, 10:30 PM) *

Well, if someone really wants it, I'm not hard to find, so far, lots of tears and hand wringing, but no signs of a checkbook.


Really? Crying? I don't see anyone crying. Just having a discussion about the wisdom of cutting up a car with history.

I said it in the first sentence. Do what you want.


agree.gif Really? Said the same thing. do as you will. And you have had a considerable offer.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 23 2015, 09:37 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 23 2015, 07:19 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Aug 23 2015, 10:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 23 2015, 10:30 PM) *

Well, if someone really wants it, I'm not hard to find, so far, lots of tears and hand wringing, but no signs of a checkbook.


Really? Crying? I don't see anyone crying. Just having a discussion about the wisdom of cutting up a car with history.

I said it in the first sentence. Do what you want.


agree.gif Really? Said the same thing. do as you will. And you have had a considerable offer.


Rick-
I've had two offers for the car, one guy offered me $10,000, since he said that's all I had in it. I declined.
The 2nd came from Dug and was also a mediocre offer. Had I taken that offer I would at best be back to square one with the car, but be out thousands of dollars of what I've put into it, not to mention the time. At worst my car ends up on the other end of the country with someone I don't know working on it. If there is a problem what is my solution? Fly to Cali, or send the car back if I'm un-happy with the work done. Like I said before, too many chances for that deal to go sideways.

I'm sure Dug is a stand up guy, in fact we might be related, both being Wright's and all. But that deal was not a good one for me, at all. At this point I have a big pile of money tied up in a project that many are saying can't be done. I have taken much more risk with this car than I did with Da Spoodster, I got that car for nothing, and horse traded for most of the parts. After all the money spent on this car and headaches I've had to secure the body and the car itself, I'm not keen on throwing many thousands down the toilet, just so someone can re-unite the body with old bodywork. I don't believe it was even that important to Dug, because he said he didn't want to put any money towards the deal, other than pay shipping and do the work, neither of which help me, and he knew I had thousands already into work in the car.

Posted by: bandjoey Aug 23 2015, 10:46 PM

A. I'd like all of these butchered 914s destroyed. blink.gif
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=262635

B. Just read the da spoodster build. Boy did those 356 people love it. I do too. beerchug.gif

C. Forgetaboutit? No. Build it. welder.gif


Posted by: Stacks914 Aug 24 2015, 12:41 AM

Yea I gotta say someone can do with whatever they want if they own something. Nice of you to go ahead and explain the lengths you went through to try and preserve the car! Anyway can you post some more pics of this shop with the sweet shit going on inside please!!! Oh and I want one of those 356's...

Posted by: gms Aug 24 2015, 10:25 AM

how cool is this!
the model is still available
http://www.mamodels.com/shop/sports-cars/porsche-914-6-garretson-enterprises-terry-zacconi-walt-maas-pca-races/
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Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 24 2015, 11:06 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 24 2015, 12:25 PM) *

how cool is this!
the model is still available
http://www.mamodels.com/shop/sports-cars/porsche-914-6-garretson-enterprises-terry-zacconi-walt-maas-pca-races/
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Yup. Car was built by Bob Garretson, Bruce Anderson, and Jerry Wood. No matter how cool you think building a 904 replica or how real you think it would be based on how you got the body, it would be worth more historically and monetarily as a restored car. Raced and displayed at historic events. Two of those men are still alive. Bruce Anderson died a year ago after a long illness. I wonder how this escaped the grasp of Bruce Canepa? He buys and restores historically significant Porsches all the time.

If it were me, and don't get me wrong, I think it is a very cool project, I would build the tube frame and everything else by scratch. I started to with a partner, but the partner decided to "simplify" his life and we sold the roller body before we got too far into it.

Good luck with your project.

Posted by: gereed75 Aug 24 2015, 01:40 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 23 2015, 11:37 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 23 2015, 07:19 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Aug 23 2015, 10:02 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 23 2015, 10:30 PM) *

Well, if someone really wants it, I'm not hard to find, so far, lots of tears and hand wringing, but no signs of a checkbook.


Really? Crying? I don't see anyone crying. Just having a discussion about the wisdom of cutting up a car with history.

I said it in the first sentence. Do what you want.


agree.gif Really? Said the same thing. do as you will. And you have had a considerable offer.


Rick-
I've had two offers for the car, one guy offered me $10,000, since he said that's all I had in it. I declined.
The 2nd came from Dug and was also a mediocre offer. Had I taken that offer I would at best be back to square one with the car, but be out thousands of dollars of what I've put into it, not to mention the time. At worst my car ends up on the other end of the country with someone I don't know working on it. If there is a problem what is my solution? Fly to Cali, or send the car back if I'm un-happy with the work done. Like I said before, too many chances for that deal to go sideways.

I'm sure Dug is a stand up guy, in fact we might be related, both being Wright's and all. But that deal was not a good one for me, at all. At this point I have a big pile of money tied up in a project that many are saying can't be done. I have taken much more risk with this car than I did with Da Spoodster, I got that car for nothing, and horse traded for most of the parts. After all the money spent on this car and headaches I've had to secure the body and the car itself, I'm not keen on throwing many thousands down the toilet, just so someone can re-unite the body with old bodywork. I don't believe it was even that important to Dug, because he said he didn't want to put any money towards the deal, other than pay shipping and do the work, neither of which help me, and he knew I had thousands already into work in the car.


Adam, re-read my offer, it was for more than $10,000.00

Posted by: scotty b Aug 24 2015, 04:04 PM

And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other.



Bring forth said car, for I owneth thy cutter of plasma-eth


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Posted by: Dave_Darling Aug 24 2015, 04:14 PM

QUOTE(wingnut86 @ Aug 23 2015, 08:00 PM) *

2- Where are them damn greedy Admins when you need them blink.gif


Probably over on the Club site. The World has admins that aren't greedy...

--DD

Posted by: RoadGlue Aug 24 2015, 04:33 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 24 2015, 03:14 PM) *

QUOTE(wingnut86 @ Aug 23 2015, 08:00 PM) *

2- Where are them damn greedy Admins when you need them blink.gif


Probably over on the Club site. The World has admins that aren't greedy...

--DD


icon12.gif icon12.gif icon12.gif icon12.gif icon12.gif

Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 24 2015, 05:49 PM

Me thinks Glenn-Bob and Dug-Bob should join farces and make Adam-Bob an offer he can't refuse.

I think a well done 904 project would be cool.

Saving the Garretson car would be even cooler.

Slithering back to my greedy admin cave (after I ban Rich for life of course) hide.gif

Posted by: Chris Pincetich Aug 24 2015, 06:19 PM

popcorn[1].gif
shades.gif
beerchug.gif

Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 24 2015, 06:31 PM

QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Aug 24 2015, 07:49 PM) *

Me thinks Glenn-Bob and Dug-Bob should join farces and make Adam-Bob an offer he can't refuse.

I think a well done 904 project would be cool.

Saving the Garretson car would be even cooler.

Slithering back to my greedy admin cave (after I ban Rich for life of course) hide.gif


pray.gif You are a wise one oh source of all Shea Lotion... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Mike D. Aug 24 2015, 07:01 PM

I really don't care either way...

But, what's the deal with "Da Spoodster" - it just looks like a RatRod 356... am I missing something there?

Posted by: Stacks914 Aug 24 2015, 07:09 PM

While it's cool its in no way the responsibility of the owner to preserve a car. If you wanna preserve it, like the man said......he takes checks....sounds like bigger ones

Posted by: Mike Bellis Aug 24 2015, 07:16 PM

QUOTE(Mike D. @ Aug 24 2015, 06:01 PM) *

I really don't care either way...

But, what's the deal with "Da Spoodster" - it just looks like a RatRod 356... am I missing something there?

If you read through all 14 pages of the build thread, a ton of work went in to that rat rod. It was a coupe that someone really fuched up.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 24 2015, 07:22 PM

QUOTE(Mike D. @ Aug 24 2015, 05:01 PM) *

I really don't care either way...

But, what's the deal with "Da Spoodster" - it just looks like a RatRod 356... am I missing something there?


It is painted in Eastwood Rat Rod Black, so you're right there.

If you read the build thread you will see someone long before me wanted a Cali Widebody, so they built one out of an A Coupe. I got it and made it into a Speedster, using all metal. It was cool, but it took me years. It's in Australia now.

Posted by: Mike D. Aug 24 2015, 08:35 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 24 2015, 06:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Mike D. @ Aug 24 2015, 05:01 PM) *

I really don't care either way...

But, what's the deal with "Da Spoodster" - it just looks like a RatRod 356... am I missing something there?


It is painted in Eastwood Rat Rod Black, so you're right there.

If you read the build thread you will see someone long before me wanted a Cali Widebody, so they built one out of an A Coupe. I got it and made it into a Speedster, using all metal. It was cool, but it took me years. It's in Australia now.


Was it Mike Z.? happy11.gif

Posted by: gereed75 Aug 24 2015, 09:07 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 24 2015, 09:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Mike D. @ Aug 24 2015, 05:01 PM) *

I really don't care either way...

But, what's the deal with "Da Spoodster" - it just looks like a RatRod 356... am I missing something there?


It is painted in Eastwood Rat Rod Black, so you're right there.

If you read the build thread you will see someone long before me wanted a Cali Widebody, so they built one out of an A Coupe. I got it and made it into a Speedster, using all metal. It was cool, but it took me years. It's in Australia now.


Adam, Just to set the record straight, my offer was well over $10,000.00 and it was you who posted "I got it for $15,000, and sold the gearbox for $5000, so I'm down to $10,000. "... not me.

Signed "one guy"

Posted by: Mr. Olympic Blue 2 You Aug 24 2015, 09:10 PM

I just have 1 question.
Is a 904 replica made out of a historically significant race car considered an outlaw?
clown2.gif

Posted by: bigkensteele Aug 24 2015, 11:13 PM

This reminds me of a FS ad I put up on Pelican a few years ago when I had my 911. When I bought it, the gauges had red faces, which was not an entirely out-of-the-norm mod, but not my taste. I found a set to replace them and then put them up for sale on Pelican.

Good God All Mighty! It was as if I had posted a drawing of Mohamed on the ISIS "Sex Slaves for Sale" forum. The thread was inundated with comments about how terrible they were. Any potential buyers were obviously put into place as to where the "crowd" felt about such a modification, and essentially shamed into not purchasing them. I still have them.

I pray that is not what we are becoming here. Anyone who really, really thinks that this car should be preserved has the opportunity right now to step up and front the cash to make that happen. It is very rare that I find myself disagreeing with Rob or Rick, but in this case, if you think that this car is that important, then form a consortium with the others who agree and buy the car. He isn't holding it ransom. He just wants to be made whole for what he has spent and where he is at on his project. If that can't happen, then maybe this car really isn't that important.

The first MLB night game to be played under lights was at Crowsley Field here in Cincinnati. Sorry to say that Crowsley and all he built is long gone, but life goes on.

Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 24 2015, 11:34 PM

QUOTE(bigkensteele @ Aug 25 2015, 01:13 AM) *

This reminds me of a FS ad I put up on Pelican a few years ago when I had my 911. When I bought it, the gauges had red faces, which was not an entirely out-of-the-norm mod, but not my taste. I found a set to replace them and then put them up for sale on Pelican.

Good God All Mighty! It was as if I had posted a drawing of Mohamed on the ISIS "Sex Slaves for Sale" forum. The thread was inundated with comments about how terrible they were. Any potential buyers were obviously put into place as to where the "crowd" felt about such a modification, and essentially shamed into not purchasing them. I still have them.

I pray that is not what we are becoming here. Anyone who really, really thinks that this car should be preserved has the opportunity right now to step up and front the cash to make that happen. It is very rare that I find myself disagreeing with Rob or Rick, but in this case, if you think that this car is that important, then form a consortium with the others who agree and buy the car. He isn't holding it ransom. He just wants to be made whole for what he has spent and where he is at on his project. If that can't happen, then maybe this car really isn't that important.

The first MLB night game to be played under lights was at Crowsley Field here in Cincinnati. Sorry to say that Crowsley and all he built is long gone, but life goes on.


Ken,
He was offered more than he has in it. He could be made whole. That is apparently not what he wants. He holds the cards. It's his to do with what he will...
But when you get to the track, those guys care a lot more about history. It will always be the car that was made out of a historically significant race car. confused24.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 05:12 AM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Aug 24 2015, 09:34 PM) *

QUOTE(bigkensteele @ Aug 25 2015, 01:13 AM) *

This reminds me of a FS ad I put up on Pelican a few years ago when I had my 911. When I bought it, the gauges had red faces, which was not an entirely out-of-the-norm mod, but not my taste. I found a set to replace them and then put them up for sale on Pelican.

Good God All Mighty! It was as if I had posted a drawing of Mohamed on the ISIS "Sex Slaves for Sale" forum. The thread was inundated with comments about how terrible they were. Any potential buyers were obviously put into place as to where the "crowd" felt about such a modification, and essentially shamed into not purchasing them. I still have them.

I pray that is not what we are becoming here. Anyone who really, really thinks that this car should be preserved has the opportunity right now to step up and front the cash to make that happen. It is very rare that I find myself disagreeing with Rob or Rick, but in this case, if you think that this car is that important, then form a consortium with the others who agree and buy the car. He isn't holding it ransom. He just wants to be made whole for what he has spent and where he is at on his project. If that can't happen, then maybe this car really isn't that important.

The first MLB night game to be played under lights was at Crowsley Field here in Cincinnati. Sorry to say that Crowsley and all he built is long gone, but life goes on.


Ken,
He was offered more than he has in it. He could be made whole. That is apparently not what he wants. He holds the cards. It's his to do with what he will...
But when you get to the track, those guys care a lot more about history. It will always be the car that was made out of a historically significant race car. confused24.gif


You guys are really missing the point. Let's concede that I was offered enough to cover what I have in the car, by one guy, maybe a little more, but still not enough to get me into a running driving six conversion. Every car I was offered was well into $25,000-40,000. So once again, why am I supposed to take a $$$ hit to pass this car onto someone? I don't see any of you guys willing to take a hit when I wanted to buy a six conversion. Cars that less than a year ago would have been about $10,000-15,000 are now double that. I know because I went back a year into classifieds here and on Pelican, but now that the market is up on all air-cooled Porsches everyone wants big money for their conversions, not because they have more in them but because they think they are worth more. Great, that's a free market economy, but don't act all communist when it's time for me to sell my car.
My 60 Roadster, I horse traded a rough Roadster project and a 73 911S for it about 10 years ago, but am I supposed to sell it for around that, or the $125,000 it's worth now? You can read the full story here when I wrote it up in the Early S Reg magazine:




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Posted by: r_towle Aug 25 2015, 07:19 AM

Adam, how much do you want for the car?
Put a number on the table, if it's met, off you go..
If it's not met, break out the tools and start your project.


Shea may be the one to buy it.....

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 11:55 AM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 25 2015, 05:19 AM) *

Adam, how much do you want for the car?
Put a number on the table, if it's met, off you go..
If it's not met, break out the tools and start your project.


Shea may be the one to buy it.....


R-
I don't want to sell it, the car works for my needs on the project. A bunch of guys are saying they want to save it, so I said I would sell it, but I need enough money to replace it.
Are you coming to the open house on the 5th?

Posted by: jmitro Aug 25 2015, 12:43 PM

this thread is amusing, with all the armchair quarterbacking. biggrin.gif

Let the guy do whatever he wants, it's his car.

Good luck with this awesome project beerchug.gif

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Aug 25 2015, 12:46 PM

You're the one who said you're in the business of flipping Porsches. If you did your due diligence I'm pretty sure you'd come out quite on top if you sold it and found another donor. Your car, do what you want. But we're still allowed to have an opinion.

Whatever you do, FINISH IT. I just get sick of seeing decent tubs cut up because someone wanted to make a hot-rod 914, then they never finish it, effectively ruining it for the next person.

Posted by: RoadGlue Aug 25 2015, 12:57 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 10:55 AM) *

R-
I don't want to sell it, the car works for my needs on the project.


There we have it ladies and gentlemen.

You toyed with the group for pages saying that you'd let it go if someone presented a serious offer. However it was clear when you wouldn't list a price that you were just blowing smoke. Thanks for finally just saying that the "car is not for sale." Right?

If it's for sale, then list a price. If it's not then don't beat around the bush and make it sound like this car could be rescued from this project.

IIRC, this car's last chance at being saved is if you find that the kit won't fit on the other donor car.

Just trying to make sure I and others understand. Perhaps I'm a bit slow. confused24.gif

Posted by: iwanta914-6 Aug 25 2015, 01:09 PM

I really don't care one way or the other. I think though he is basically saying he needs $30K+ so that he can turn around and go buy a Six Conversion to cut up. Otherwise it's just easier to continue with this car because the price fit the budget he had in place for this project.

There are plenty of cars with racing provenance rotting away in junk yards, at least this one can live on under a different skin.

Posted by: gms Aug 25 2015, 01:21 PM

QUOTE(iwanta914-6 @ Aug 25 2015, 02:09 PM) *

There are plenty of cars with racing provenance rotting away in junk yards, at least this one can live on under a different skin.

Really are you sure there are? real IMSA developed cars? please point me to them because all the other IMSA 914s that I know of are in car collections

Posted by: dug Aug 25 2015, 01:46 PM

I wouldn't post again but he's calling my offer mediocre.

I offered him a very nice chassis, all transportation costs both ways and the work to swap engines because I want to keep my twin plug 2.8 RSR motor with PMOs. For all his complaing, if that had happened I would have spent a LOT more getting that car ready than mine.

I never said what I paid for the chassis, but he never asked. Pretty sure he missed out:) Mediocre offer indeed.

I also never said who would do the work, and he never asked. I was actually planning to have my friend who currently works at Jerry Woods' shop do the work, because I have too much to do at work.

I think its hilarious that he keeps complaining about spending thousands on doing some mechanical work to get the car ready on a forum where most readers are serious DIYers. Dropping out the engine and trans is an afternoon job with only a floor jack. I havent done it since I got my lift. It's probably less than 2 hours now.

I think Randy nailed it. Lots of fishing going on.


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 01:46 PM

QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Aug 25 2015, 10:57 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 10:55 AM) *

R-
I don't want to sell it, the car works for my needs on the project.


There we have it ladies and gentlemen.

You toyed with the group for pages saying that you'd let it go if someone presented a serious offer. However it was clear when you wouldn't list a price that you were just blowing smoke. Thanks for finally just saying that the "car is not for sale." Right?

If it's for sale, then list a price. If it's not then don't beat around the bush and make it sound like this car could be rescued from this project.

IIRC, this car's last chance at being saved is if you find that the kit won't fit on the other donor car.

Just trying to make sure I and others understand. Perhaps I'm a bit slow. confused24.gif


I didn't list a price because this isn't a FOR SALE thread, it's a thread about my project. When I first got the car and everyone said it should be saved I made the offer of a trade for a six conversion, there were no takers. Now months later and several thousands of dollars spent people have again expressed outrage at the idea of me using my car in my project. I again said I wasn't attached to the car if someone wanted to buy it. So don't twist this around like I am "blowing smoke" or teasing people about selling the car. Unlike every other car in my collection that isn't for sale at any price, I would sell this one if someone wanted to save it. What I'm not going to do is give it away and be back on the open market trying to find a comparable six conversion, the prices you guys are asking are insane, some of the offers guys were sending me when I was looking were just crazy, $30,000 for an un-finished conversion, really?

Also, @GMS, if you don't believe there are Porsche race cars rotting away, you should go barn hunting with me sometime, like this one, I was buying up a whole field of 356's and poked my head in the tent.



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Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 25 2015, 01:47 PM

NO LONGER FOR SALE. Give it a rest. Or offer him more money than any person in their right mind would turn down. Pretty simple. To me.

Posted by: gms Aug 25 2015, 01:58 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 02:46 PM) *

Also, @GMS, if you don't believe there are Porsche race cars rotting away, you should go barn hunting with me sometime, like this one, I was buying up a whole field of 356's and poked my head in the tent.

I would love to go barn hunting with you, when i see the pictures of the 356 loaded up on the truck it make me drool. point me to the 962 chowtime.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 01:58 PM

QUOTE(dug @ Aug 25 2015, 11:46 AM) *

I wouldn't post again but he's calling my offer mediocre.

I offered him a very nice chassis, all transportation costs both ways and the work to swap engines because I want to keep my twin plug 2.8 RSR motor with PMOs. For all his complaing, if that had happened I would have spent a LOT more getting that car ready than mine.

I never said what I paid for the chassis, but he never asked. Pretty sure he missed out:) Mediocre offer indeed.

I also never said who would do the work, and he never asked. I was actually planning to have my friend who currently works at Jerry Woods' shop do the work, because I have too much to do at work.

I think its hilarious that he keeps complaining about spending thousands on doing some mechanical work to get the car ready on a forum where most readers are serious DIYers. Dropping out the engine and trans is an afternoon job with only a floor jack. I havent done it since I got my lift. It's probably less than 2 hours now.

I think Randy nailed it. Lots of fishing going on.


Dug-
I think you are contradicting yourself. You say I should do the work, it's only two hours, except you yourself were too busy and you were going to pay someone to do the work if you did the swap. Yes, I can drop a motor, and put one back in. But I'm a firm believer in the "Code of Clint" that "A Man's Got To Know His Limitations". So when I allocate a half day to a day a week to work on my own stuff, should I do what I'm not good at and do the mechanical, or do what I enjoy, which is the bodywork? Also, while I can do mechanical I know my limitations in tuning a Porsche, especially one built to race specs with stuff like hydraulic clutches. So yes, rather than butcher my way through the mechanical aspects of the car, I am paying to have that side of the project done. I don't enjoy what I'm not very good at, who does?
I did go fishing last week, caught a bass at my lakehouse in NH, is that the fishing you are talking about?


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 02:03 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 11:58 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 02:46 PM) *

Also, @GMS, if you don't believe there are Porsche race cars rotting away, you should go barn hunting with me sometime, like this one, I was buying up a whole field of 356's and poked my head in the tent.

I would love to go barn hunting with you, when i see the pictures of the 356 loaded up on the truck it make me drool. point me to the 962 chowtime.gif


The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell. I went a guy's place outside of Philly a few years back. He had about 10 cars in his yard, 3 of which were Speedsters. He says, "that one is a Carrera." I asked if he had a motor, he took me in his basement, he had three 4-cams! All these car were outside under waterbed covers, but he wouldn't sell a thing, even though they had been outside since before I was born (1974). In his garage he had even cooler stuff, a 59 Carrera Coupe and RSR #1, the car Harry Bizteck won the Canada Cup with, the one with the big maple leaf on the side. But nothing was for sale, he would rather the rot outside.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 25 2015, 02:10 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 04:03 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 11:58 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 02:46 PM) *

Also, @GMS, if you don't believe there are Porsche race cars rotting away, you should go barn hunting with me sometime, like this one, I was buying up a whole field of 356's and poked my head in the tent.

I would love to go barn hunting with you, when i see the pictures of the 356 loaded up on the truck it make me drool. point me to the 962 chowtime.gif


The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell. I went a guy's place outside of Philly a few years back. He had about 10 cars in his yard, 3 of which were Speedsters. He says, "that one is a Carrera." I asked if he had a motor, he took me in his basement, he had three 4-cams! All these car were outside under waterbed covers, but he wouldn't sell a thing, even though they had been outside since before I was born (1974). In his garage he had even cooler stuff, a 59 Carrera Coupe and RSR #1, the car Harry Bizteck won the Canada Cup with, the one with the big maple leaf on the side. But nothing was for sale, he would rather the rot outside.

You just have to wait and buy it from his widow. Sad but true.

Posted by: gms Aug 25 2015, 02:12 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 03:03 PM) *

The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell. I went a guy's place outside of Philly a few years back. He had about 10 cars in his yard, 3 of which were Speedsters. He says, "that one is a Carrera." I asked if he had a motor, he took me in his basement, he had three 4-cams! All these car were outside under waterbed covers, but he wouldn't sell a thing, even though they had been outside since before I was born (1974). In his garage he had even cooler stuff, a 59 Carrera Coupe and RSR #1, the car Harry Bizteck won the Canada Cup with, the one with the big maple leaf on the side. But nothing was for sale, he would rather the rot outside.

That has got to be heart breaking, have you ever had success going back a couple times? how many Carreras have you found in the wild?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 02:30 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 12:12 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 03:03 PM) *

The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell. I went a guy's place outside of Philly a few years back. He had about 10 cars in his yard, 3 of which were Speedsters. He says, "that one is a Carrera." I asked if he had a motor, he took me in his basement, he had three 4-cams! All these car were outside under waterbed covers, but he wouldn't sell a thing, even though they had been outside since before I was born (1974). In his garage he had even cooler stuff, a 59 Carrera Coupe and RSR #1, the car Harry Bizteck won the Canada Cup with, the one with the big maple leaf on the side. But nothing was for sale, he would rather the rot outside.

That has got to be heart breaking, have you ever had success going back a couple times? how many Carreras have you found in the wild?

I've actually never bought a Carrera, and I normally shy away from the stuff. Normally the 4-cam stuff is overpriced and hard to move once you have it.
But yes, I have stayed on a lead, sometimes for years and gotten the car. I took me five years to buy this 55 Speedster, including several trips to the guys place when he said he was ready, only to get there (7 hour drive) and have him tell me he changed his mind.



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 02:32 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Aug 25 2015, 12:10 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 04:03 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 11:58 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 02:46 PM) *

Also, @GMS, if you don't believe there are Porsche race cars rotting away, you should go barn hunting with me sometime, like this one, I was buying up a whole field of 356's and poked my head in the tent.

I would love to go barn hunting with you, when i see the pictures of the 356 loaded up on the truck it make me drool. point me to the 962 chowtime.gif


The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell. I went a guy's place outside of Philly a few years back. He had about 10 cars in his yard, 3 of which were Speedsters. He says, "that one is a Carrera." I asked if he had a motor, he took me in his basement, he had three 4-cams! All these car were outside under waterbed covers, but he wouldn't sell a thing, even though they had been outside since before I was born (1974). In his garage he had even cooler stuff, a 59 Carrera Coupe and RSR #1, the car Harry Bizteck won the Canada Cup with, the one with the big maple leaf on the side. But nothing was for sale, he would rather the rot outside.

You just have to wait and buy it from his widow. Sad but true.


That's funny, I recently bought a whole truckload of 356's from a guy, he introduced me to his wife who said, "Is this the Adam I'm supposed to call if you don't wake up one morning". We all laughed.

Posted by: gms Aug 25 2015, 02:36 PM

got to be one of the best jobs in the world!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 02:39 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 12:36 PM) *

got to be one of the best jobs in the world!

Some days, yes, other days I wish I still had my Corp. job.
Like this day, bought a one owner 86 Carrera from a guy, it arrived, the paint is flowering off, the interior looks like animals have been living in it, and the key breaks off if the lock, mind you the steering lock is on, the wheels are turned and its on the front of a car carrier, the 18 wheeler kind...


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Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 25 2015, 02:53 PM

"I didn't list a price because this isn't a FOR SALE thread, it's a thread about my project. When I first got the car and everyone said it should be saved I made the offer of a trade for a six conversion, there were no takers. Now months later and several thousands of dollars spent people have again expressed outrage at the idea of me using my car in my project. I again said I wasn't attached to the car if someone wanted to buy it. So don't twist this around like I am "blowing smoke" or teasing people about selling the car. Unlike every other car in my collection that isn't for sale at any price, I would sell this one if someone wanted to save it. What I'm not going to do is give it away and be back on the open market trying to find a comparable six conversion, the prices you guys are asking are insane, some of the offers guys were sending me when I was looking were just crazy, $30,000 for an un-finished conversion, really?

Also, @GMS, if you don't believe there are Porsche race cars rotting away, you should go barn hunting with me sometime, like this one, I was buying up a whole field of 356's and poked my head in the tent."

Outrage? Really? Wow! What's with the drama. confused24.gif I only knew about this thread for 3-4 days. I'm not outraged. I just think it's idiotic to cut up a car with race history when you don't have to. It took me about 5 months to find an engine for my 6 conversion. Many of the other parts took longer. But with some patience, I got the parts I needed at a price both me and the seller could live with. You express disbelief that anyone would want this car because it sat for 6 months before you bought it. That is unbelievably quick in this world. First you say you wanted to be 'made whole' and then when it is proven you have offers that do that, now you want to make enough money to buy a 6 conversion at $30K 'because you've spent thousands'. Really? Looks like you bought it, had it shipped and took the bodywork off. Then you sold the differential. Now you've recouped about 1/3 of your investment and you're looking to get $30K? lol-2.gif Wow... Let us know when you find the unsuspecting sheep. sheeplove.gif

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Aug 25 2015, 03:12 PM

yawn.gif
So, when do we get to see the first cut? sawzall-smiley.gif

Posted by: bigkensteele Aug 25 2015, 03:14 PM

Just when it turned civil, here comes Hurricane Rob! happy11.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 03:37 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Aug 25 2015, 12:53 PM) *

"I didn't list a price because this isn't a FOR SALE thread, it's a thread about my project. When I first got the car and everyone said it should be saved I made the offer of a trade for a six conversion, there were no takers. Now months later and several thousands of dollars spent people have again expressed outrage at the idea of me using my car in my project. I again said I wasn't attached to the car if someone wanted to buy it. So don't twist this around like I am "blowing smoke" or teasing people about selling the car. Unlike every other car in my collection that isn't for sale at any price, I would sell this one if someone wanted to save it. What I'm not going to do is give it away and be back on the open market trying to find a comparable six conversion, the prices you guys are asking are insane, some of the offers guys were sending me when I was looking were just crazy, $30,000 for an un-finished conversion, really?

Also, @GMS, if you don't believe there are Porsche race cars rotting away, you should go barn hunting with me sometime, like this one, I was buying up a whole field of 356's and poked my head in the tent."

Outrage? Really? Wow! What's with the drama. confused24.gif I only knew about this thread for 3-4 days. I'm not outraged. I just think it's idiotic to cut up a car with race history when you don't have to. It took me about 5 months to find an engine for my 6 conversion. Many of the other parts took longer. But with some patience, I got the parts I needed at a price both me and the seller could live with. You express disbelief that anyone would want this car because it sat for 6 months before you bought it. That is unbelievably quick in this world. First you say you wanted to be 'made whole' and then when it is proven you have offers that do that, now you want to make enough money to buy a 6 conversion at $30K 'because you've spent thousands'. Really? Looks like you bought it, had it shipped and took the bodywork off. Then you sold the differential. Now you've recouped about 1/3 of your investment and you're looking to get $30K? lol-2.gif Wow... Let us know when you find the unsuspecting sheep. sheeplove.gif


Sheep? I like the ladies, sorry, been married for 11 years. I don't want to sell it, and I don't want to sell it for $30,000, all I ever wanted was a running and driving six conversion. It isn't about the parts, I have about a dozen 911 motors, I even have two original 914-6 motors in my 10,000 square feet of Porsche stuff. The whole point is to have a running and driving car so I didn't have to re-invent the wheel. When I went to buy one, posting wanted ads here and elsewhere, the only cars that came my way were runners at $30,000 + or un-finished projects at $20,000-25,000. I found this car for what I thought was an affordable price. I didn't find it thinking I can flip it, or I was onto something. I posted it here for my project. People said I shouldn't use this car, so I said I would entertain suggestions on sales or trades. So don't twist it around Rob, I'm not looking for sheep to fleece, I was looking for a 914/6 conversion, I found one and am going to mount a 904 body on it if I can. And I made the offer months ago, before I had spent any money on the car, and while the 904 body was still being built, so I had time to play with.
Bottom line, everyone knew about this car, it has been on the market on and off since 2007, being passed around like a cheap hooker, and the last time no one wanted it, it was on ebay for 6 months and the guy had been trying to sell it for 2 years. I bought it, I own it. Anybody who was so enthralled with it could have bought it long before me and started a museum around it, a shrine even, but there were no takers.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Aug 25 2015, 03:42 PM

Adam, obviously this particular car is more valuable to us 914 fans than you expected. There are also many of us that would like to finally see a rebodied 914 that is actually pretty and appropriate. So let us help you make this a win-win. What exactly do you need in a donor car?

And while you are waiting for the community to provide a solution, fit the body to the sacrificial car to make sure it will actually work as visioned. Deal?

PS. Edit for your last post. A WTB ad is almost always going to get you the highest prices and is no reflection on what's actually market value if you're diligent and patient. The market for sixes has been going up for at least 5 years thanks to the demand for 911s, the major cost being the $10k engines and the rediculous prices Porsche 'experts' charge. But if you have engines then why not put one in the brown car? Conversion parts are only a few grand.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 03:47 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Aug 25 2015, 01:42 PM) *

Adam, obviously this particular car is more valuable to us 914 fans than you expected. There are also many of us that would like to finally see a rebodied 914 that is actually pretty and appropriate. So let us help you make this a win-win. What exactly do you need in a donor car?

And while you are waiting for the community to provide a solution, fit the body to the sacrificial car to make sure it will actually work as visioned. Deal?


I would like a comparable car. A 914/6 conversion with known mechanicals and preferably with a larger six, mine has a 3.2 carbed with Webers, big brakes, etc.

Posted by: eric9144 Aug 25 2015, 03:55 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 01:03 PM) *

The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell.

lol-2.gif av-943.gif popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 25 2015, 04:02 PM

QUOTE(eric9144 @ Aug 25 2015, 04:55 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 01:03 PM) *

The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell.

lol-2.gif av-943.gif popcorn[1].gif



unsure.gif blink.gif huh.gif laugh.gif dry.gif

Ok. so this IS a 914 forum Maybe the 904 forum guys will think it's cool. Go find one and see that they think.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 04:11 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 25 2015, 02:02 PM) *

QUOTE(eric9144 @ Aug 25 2015, 04:55 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 01:03 PM) *

The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell.

lol-2.gif av-943.gif popcorn[1].gif



unsure.gif blink.gif huh.gif laugh.gif dry.gif

Ok. so this IS a 914 forum Maybe the 904 forum guys will think it's cool. Go find one and see that they think.


Rick-
I think there are plenty of guys on THIS forum who are very excited about this project, more than half of the comments have been positive. If you don't like the project, I suggest you un-subscribe from the thread.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Aug 25 2015, 04:31 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 02:47 PM) *

I would like a comparable car. A 914/6 conversion with known mechanicals and preferably with a larger six, mine has a 3.2 carbed with Webers, big brakes, etc.

Honestly, that didn't narrow it down at all. Stock body OK or do you need chassis stiffening? How rust free? Does year matter?
Big brakes being 24mm 911 Carrera, 930, Boxster, Hybrid?
Transmission- stock gears? fresh rebuild or low mile?
Electrical- wired for turn signals and brake or can you handle that?

I'm not saying you can custom order the whole thing, but I don't want a hundred hours of members time and effort to be put into this for you to decide it's not good enough (which seems to be your hangup).

What's wrong with the engines you already have. Can one of those be used for the 904?

We have build parties almost as often as we have sawzall parties, this can be done.

Posted by: Garland Aug 25 2015, 04:51 PM

Ok

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 05:27 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Aug 25 2015, 01:42 PM) *

Adam, obviously this particular car is more valuable to us 914 fans than you expected. There are also many of us that would like to finally see a rebodied 914 that is actually pretty and appropriate. So let us help you make this a win-win. What exactly do you need in a donor car?

And while you are waiting for the community to provide a solution, fit the body to the sacrificial car to make sure it will actually work as visioned. Deal?

PS. Edit for your last post. A WTB ad is almost always going to get you the highest prices and is no reflection on what's actually market value if you're diligent and patient. The market for sixes has been going up for at least 5 years thanks to the demand for 911s, the major cost being the $10k engines and the rediculous prices Porsche 'experts' charge. But if you have engines then why not put one in the brown car? Conversion parts are only a few grand.


Fair enough, the car is not at my shop right now, but when I get it back I will give a detailed description of the components so to give everyone a general idea.
Also, the WTB ads was just part of the stuff I saw and was offered, that was also checking all the for sale websites, and putting out feelers to all the people I know. The pricing I got was generally the same, no matter the medium. Between $20,000-25,000 for un-finished projects that were complete, around $10,000-15,000 for six conversions minus the guts, and $30,000+ for running and driving cars.
Why didn't I plug one of the motors I have into one? I looked into that option but even having friends do the engine re-build and other heavy lifting I was still looking at $20,000 before I was running, driving, and stopping on 5 lug wheels with big brakes. And that's if I provided the body and the engine. In this market nothing is cheap, including shop time. It's great when selling, but not so great when you're on the other end.
Which brings us back to why I bought the yellow car that no one wanted, it was $15,000 running, driving, and stopping, and as a bonus the body had already been peeled away, saving me the trouble. Also, no rust.

Posted by: Spoke Aug 25 2015, 06:03 PM

10 pages to your build thread and you're still defending yourself.

You didn't happen to shoot a lion did you?

I wanna see this car come to life.

Posted by: SirAndy Aug 25 2015, 06:44 PM

10 pages and i'm still not exactly sure what the hell is going on here ...
confused24.gif

Posted by: dug Aug 25 2015, 06:49 PM

Adam: "If anyone wants to trade their six conversion for this car, I am all ears."
Adam: "The worst is when you find the stuff but the guy won't sell."
Adam: "I think you are contradicting yourself. You say I should do the work, it's only two hours, except you yourself were too busy and you were going to pay someone to do the work if you did the swap."

In the words of Inigo Montoya, "I do not think it means what you think it means."

I've now been called mediocre and contradictory, and my work couldn't be trusted. I definitely AM argumentative and I disapprove of cutting up the Garretson's car. But I will defend my offer as not mediocre and argue that I have not contradicted myself in any way.

I would happily pay someone to do the work that most of us can do in not a lot of time, and I am not complaining that it will cost me a lot of money to have someone with recognizable credibility do it. That is why my offer is not mediocre and that doesn't contradict anything that I have said.

Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 25 2015, 07:14 PM

If I were Adam, I would not EVER post here again. Some people here sound like the biggest dicks. Talk about taking the fun out of a hobby? The poor guy has had to defend himself and HIS FREAKING BUILD at least fifteen times. He does own the car, and he can do with it whatever he wants.

Adam, are you a masochist?

Posted by: gms Aug 25 2015, 07:27 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Aug 25 2015, 07:44 PM) *

10 pages and i'm still not exactly sure what the hell is going on here ...
confused24.gif

It is kind of like when a developer is trying to knock down a historic building and there are protesters trying to stop the demolition
Strangely enough in this case there are a number of people calling for the demolition of the building.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 07:27 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Aug 25 2015, 05:14 PM) *

If I were Adam, I would not EVER post here again. Some people here sound like the biggest dicks. Talk about taking the fun out of a hobby? The poor guy has had to defend himself and HIS FREAKING BUILD at least fifteen times. He does own the car, and he can do with it whatever he wants.

Adam, are you a masochist?


Nope, just passionate about Porsche. But thanks.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Aug 25 2015, 07:42 PM

If I remember right, the 904's fiberglass body was glued onto the frame. Planning on doing the same?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 07:43 PM

QUOTE(Johny Blackstain @ Aug 25 2015, 05:42 PM) *

If I remember right, the 904's fiberglass body was glued onto the frame. Planning on doing the same?


Not there yet, but it is an option.

Posted by: KELTY360 Aug 25 2015, 07:45 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 06:27 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Aug 25 2015, 07:44 PM) *

10 pages and i'm still not exactly sure what the hell is going on here ...
confused24.gif

It is kind of like when a developer is trying to knock down a historic building and there are protesters trying to stop the demolition
Strangely enough in this case there are a number of people calling for the demolition of the building.


Equally strange is that the 'historic' bodywork for the car is sitting neglected outside in the elements, thousands of miles from the chassis.

This is the kind of anal hypocrisy that gives preservationists a bad name.

I'll be following your build, good luck with it. popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Aug 25 2015, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 25 2015, 09:43 PM) *

QUOTE(Johny Blackstain @ Aug 25 2015, 05:42 PM) *

If I remember right, the 904's fiberglass body was glued onto the frame. Planning on doing the same?


Not there yet, but it is an option.

Automotive panel adhesive has come a long way in 50+ years. I love the stuff & wish it was'nt so damned expensive; best household "glue" I've ever used biggrin.gif

Posted by: infraredcalvin Aug 25 2015, 07:53 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Aug 25 2015, 06:14 PM) *

If I were Adam, I would not EVER post here again. Some people here sound like the biggest dicks. Talk about taking the fun out of a hobby? The poor guy has had to defend himself and HIS FREAKING BUILD at least fifteen times. He does own the car, and he can do with it whatever he wants.

Adam, are you a masochist?

agree.gif

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 06:27 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Aug 25 2015, 07:44 PM) *

10 pages and i'm still not exactly sure what the hell is going on here ...
confused24.gif

It is kind of like when a developer is trying to knock down a historic building and there are protesters trying to stop the demolition
Strangely enough in this case there are a number of people calling for the demolition of the building.

I'm a developer, there's a reason those buildings go by the wayside, and it's waaaay beyond the value to fix it up, making whole is beyond $$$ in some cases. Similar to this situation, there are going to be feelings, emotions, goals, bucket list, that cannot be expressed in words by the OP and are valid reasons for him not to let the car go for any price. In fact this nonsense has probably solidified the cars fate...

Let's get on to the build!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 08:51 PM

QUOTE
I'm a developer, there's a reason those buildings go by the wayside, and it's waaaay beyond the value to fix it up, making whole is beyond $$$ in some cases. Similar to this situation, there are going to be feelings, emotions, goals, bucket list, that cannot be expressed in words by the OP and are valid reasons for him not to let the car go for any price. In fact this nonsense has probably solidified the cars fate...

Let's get on to the build!


When I lived in Brooklyn my landlord owned our building but also owned a whole block right behind on on the East River. He wanted to develop it as waterfront living, a bunch of people wanted to preserve the building. A hearing was set for certain Monday at 10AM, this is what I awoke to that Monday at 7AM.

There was no hearing, they demo'ed what was left and built condos. That landlord had about 5 fires in the few years I knew him. When I saw him on the street that morning, he said he got a call at 5 AM that morning. I asked if the caller said, "It's done" He told me where to put those thoughts in typical Brooklyn fashion.


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Posted by: bigkensteele Aug 25 2015, 09:18 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 05:27 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Aug 25 2015, 07:44 PM) *

10 pages and i'm still not exactly sure what the hell is going on here ...
confused24.gif

It is kind of like when a developer is trying to knock down a historic building and there are protesters trying to stop the demolition
Strangely enough in this case there are a number of people calling for the demolition of the building.

I agree with the analogy. Yet 99 times out of 100, those passionate preservationists can't seem to come up with a viable fiscal plan to not only purchase and preserve the building, but most importantly maintain it.

Everything costs money in one way or another, even if it is "free". My daughter was awarded free tickets to last night's Reds game for getting straight A's. After parking, dinner, and a beer (for me), I had spent $55 before the first pitch.

Adam listed what he needs in a car a few posts up. I would find it hard to believe that among the folks who want to see this car saved, the parts, tub and skills to put it together are not there. Rather than bash him, those folks need come up with a plan that both sides can live with, put a deadline on it, and deliver. Win/win. From what I can see, his demands are not that tall - running, driving, higher displacement six conversion with big brakes. Hell, you could just drive a good tub up there, rent a shop and swap everything over the course of a couple of days. sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif I can't be the only original thinker here.

BTW, Adam, if I were you, I would rather do the build on an ex-street car than an ex-race car. Repairs on racers are not always pretty.

Posted by: RobW Aug 25 2015, 09:28 PM

headbang.gif headbang.gif headbang.gif

AND

dead horse.gif dead horse.gif dead horse.gif

SO

welder.gif welder.gif welder.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 25 2015, 09:43 PM

QUOTE(bigkensteele @ Aug 25 2015, 07:18 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 25 2015, 05:27 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Aug 25 2015, 07:44 PM) *

10 pages and i'm still not exactly sure what the hell is going on here ...
confused24.gif

It is kind of like when a developer is trying to knock down a historic building and there are protesters trying to stop the demolition
Strangely enough in this case there are a number of people calling for the demolition of the building.

I agree with the analogy. Yet 99 times out of 100, those passionate preservationists can't seem to come up with a viable fiscal plan to not only purchase and preserve the building, but most importantly maintain it.

Everything costs money in one way or another, even if it is "free". My daughter was awarded free tickets to last night's Reds game for getting straight A's. After parking, dinner, and a beer (for me), I had spent $55 before the first pitch.

Adam listed what he needs in a car a few posts up. I would find it hard to believe that among the folks who want to see this car saved, the parts, tub and skills to put it together are not there. Rather than bash him, those folks need come up with a plan that both sides can live with, put a deadline on it, and deliver. Win/win. From what I can see, his demands are not that tall - running, driving, higher displacement six conversion with big brakes. Hell, you could just drive a good tub up there, rent a shop and swap everything over the course of a couple of days. sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif I can't be the only original thinker here.

BTW, Adam, if I were you, I would rather do the build on an ex-street car than an ex-race car. Repairs on racers are not always pretty.


Yeah, but racers hate rust, so this car has none.

Posted by: Old Yella Aug 25 2015, 09:44 PM

I've met a lot of developers who lived in the suburbs with preservation orders yet "develop"in less affluent areas. Funny thing that.

Chop the car up and do it quickly.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Aug 26 2015, 12:58 AM

QUOTE(bigkensteele @ Aug 25 2015, 08:18 PM) *

Hell, you could just drive a good tub up there, rent a shop and swap everything over the course of a couple of days. sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif I can't be the only original thinker here.

Close to what I was thinking. It's not like half of us don't have a car stashed on the side of the house with plans we're probably never going to get too...
I could be into it pretty cheap if I could put the hours into it. But reality is I really don't need another car in the garage collecting dust until I hit Megabucks.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 26 2015, 08:22 AM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Aug 25 2015, 10:58 PM) *

QUOTE(bigkensteele @ Aug 25 2015, 08:18 PM) *

Hell, you could just drive a good tub up there, rent a shop and swap everything over the course of a couple of days. sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif I can't be the only original thinker here.

Close to what I was thinking. It's not like half of us don't have a car stashed on the side of the house with plans we're probably never going to get too...
I could be into it pretty cheap if I could put the hours into it. But reality is I really don't need another car in the garage collecting dust until I hit Megabucks.


Remember it's a disease, there is no cure, just medicine, i.e more cars.

Posted by: JDW914 Aug 26 2015, 09:35 AM

Hi Adam! This is quite the thread you've got going here. I don't think I've ever seen this community so up-in-arms about anything. I'll not put my input in the controversy, since I'm feel pretty neutral about it, but I am curious about a few aspects of your project.

For one, I've not seen anyone ask or any explanation as to: Why you are so set on putting a 6-cylinder in a 904? Weren't the originals all beefy 4-cylinders with DOHC, except for a few limited run 904/6s? It seems to me I read that Porsche had trouble with body overstress when they tried to put an F6 in the 904, and had to add a tube-frame, turning it into the 906. I'd imagine that cutting the body off of a 914 and bonding the 904 body onto it then adding an overweight engine (for the fibreglass shell) might well present a similar problem without some rather drastic countermeasures.

You might want to do a bit of stress analysis on the center-drive 914 and an analogue to your rather exclusive 904 body before you decide to assemble the final car. Panel adhesive is utterly ridiculous to try to undo, especially on fiberglass.

Just my $0.02. I look forward to seeing whatever comes out of all this.

Posted by: dwillouby Aug 26 2015, 10:50 AM

Hell I would not care if it was Hitler's staff car and he wanted to make a dune buggy out of it.
He owns it He can do what he wants and I wish him success.

Posted by: JmuRiz Aug 26 2015, 10:51 AM

You forgot about the best versions, the 904s with the type 771 flat 8s in them biggrin.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My-Lv3fqplU

Posted by: rgalla9146 Aug 26 2015, 11:07 AM

Don't restored vintage racecars with history do quite well in the market ?
Isn't a vintage racecar restored to its period livery and performance more valuable than one that has been made un- recognizable?
Isn't there more upside in going toward its history than there is going sideways ?

Posted by: RoadGlue Aug 26 2015, 11:19 AM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Aug 26 2015, 10:07 AM) *

Don't restored vintage racecars with history do quite well in the market ?
Isn't a vintage racecar restored to its period livery and performance more valuable than one that has been made un- recognisable?
Isn't there more upside in going toward its history than there is going sideways ?


Hey now, you can just take the logic of yours and take it over to another thread. Dr. Porsche himself would be proud to see this car be transformed into one his beloved 904s. Adam has assured us of this!

Posted by: bandjoey Aug 26 2015, 02:52 PM

I think the 904 will bring even more money. Can't wait to see the build. drunk.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 26 2015, 03:16 PM

Just picked up the car, it is running wonderfully, hoping to find a big empty parking lot to let loose in, if not I might risk putting Dealer Plates on it, but I might not be able to talk my way out of that one.
The body is all ready for display for the open house on Saturday Sept. 5th, hope to see everyone there.




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Posted by: Steve Aug 26 2015, 04:48 PM

Nothing personal, but how are you going to transform that tube frame thing to not look hideous on the inside of the 904? Must be planning on doing a lot of cutting and reforming of the structure. Do you have any plans that you can share? I am also a big fan of the 904 and I wish that Beck would of made his into production like his 550 spyder. Would of been an awesome kit car if the price was right.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 26 2015, 05:17 PM

QUOTE(Steve @ Aug 26 2015, 02:48 PM) *

Nothing personal, but how are you going to transform that tube frame thing to not look hideous on the inside of the 904? Must be planning on doing a lot of cutting and reforming of the structure. Do you have any plans that you can share? I am also a big fan of the 904 and I wish that Beck would of made his into production like his 550 spyder. Would of been an awesome kit car if the price was right.


I talked to Chuck Beck a few days ago about another car but mentioned my project, he liked the idea but did point out a couple of pitfalls. My guess would be he looked into using 914's also.
I am hoping to keep some of the roll bar in place since I may have to cut the Factory bar, but I won't know until I start fitting.

Posted by: carr914 Aug 26 2015, 06:59 PM

Chuck is cool but quite the oddball. As many success's as he's had, there have been just as many failures

The Beck 914 was OK, I still have a Kit, but impossible to ship. The Ford Shogun was cool but he he took too many shortcuts.

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Posted by: Steve Aug 26 2015, 07:13 PM

Chuck Beck also did a really nice 904 replica. According to his web site he is selling the whole thing minus drive train.
http://www.beck904.com/sales/

Posted by: carr914 Aug 26 2015, 07:36 PM

QUOTE(Steve @ Aug 26 2015, 09:13 PM) *

Chuck Beck also did a really nice 904 replica. According to his web site he is selling the whole thing minus drive train.
http://www.beck904.com/sales/


It is/was a very nice kit. As long as you don't buy his personal one. Wicked fast, but I saw him basically four-wheeling it at Road Atlanta infield after I talked to him about the Beck 914 at a Petit LeMans

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 26 2015, 07:48 PM

I had the opportunity to check out his personal car in LV at a Porsche shop JP and I visited. I really don't car what you do to a 914 chassis it will never impress anyone like the work Chuck did on that chassis. Here's an idea, pull the driveline from the IMSA car, sell the roller chassis and the 904 shell you bought and just buy one of Chucks rollers. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Posted by: carr914 Aug 26 2015, 07:54 PM

BINGO

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 26 2015, 08:07 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 26 2015, 05:48 PM) *

I had the opportunity to check out his personal car in LV at a Porsche shop JP and I visited. I really don't car what you do to a 914 chassis it will never impress anyone like the work Chuck did on that chassis. Here's an idea, pull the driveline from the IMSA car, sell the roller chassis and the 904 shell you bought and just buy one of Chucks rollers. No need to reinvent the wheel.


Rick, I think I had a good idea for you a couple of pages back.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Aug 26 2015, 09:09 PM

I'll bet there are some sporty guys in this country who would love to own a an old racecar,
maybe a Porsche that once raced in a seminal series.
Maybe a car that was developed by three revered names in the American Porsche pantheon.
Events could be organized where they could go to run such cars and enjoy them as they were meant to be used. East coast, west coast and in between.
A great name would have to be found for such events.
A name that's simple but evocative, maybe a bit European.
Something like Rennsport Reunion ?
Nah.... it'll never fly.


Posted by: theleschyouknow Aug 26 2015, 09:27 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 26 2015, 09:07 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 26 2015, 05:48 PM) *

I had the opportunity to check out his personal car in LV at a Porsche shop JP and I visited. I really don't car what you do to a 914 chassis it will never impress anyone like the work Chuck did on that chassis. Here's an idea, pull the driveline from the IMSA car, sell the roller chassis and the 904 shell you bought and just buy one of Chucks rollers. No need to reinvent the wheel.


Rick, I think I had a good idea for you a couple of pages back.


awww... don't make me look for it -quote it!

I got no dog in the hunt I appreciate the cars history but it's your car so ...

this thread is awesome I thought it was just gonna be a cool/interesting build thread but this much fun before the build has even started
popcorn[1].gif popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Chris914n6 Aug 26 2015, 10:16 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 26 2015, 04:17 PM) *

I am hoping to keep some of the roll bar in place since I may have to cut the Factory bar, but I won't know until I start fitting.

That should be easy to measure using the floorboard as a reference. You could even use pvc pipe as a cheap mockup.

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 26 2015, 06:48 PM) *

...just buy one of Chucks rollers. No need to reinvent the wheel.

At $60k there is some motivation to look at options. sad.gif

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Aug 26 2015, 08:09 PM) *

I'll bet there are some sporty guys in this country who would love to own a an old racecar

Me, yes, but no, can't afford it, but I would really like to see it saved. I've got a 72 4lug autoX car I could barter with, but it would require a bunch of Members volunteering to make it happen.
Makes me want to ask, what was wrong with dug's deal?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 26 2015, 10:37 PM

Chris-
I explained what didn't work with Dug's deal previously and don't really want to re-hash since Dug took offense to our different view points on the merits of the deal.

I've also explained why I didn't buy a Beck in a previous post, so don't want to re-visit that either.

I think at this point everyone who agrees or dis-agrees with my decisions has made their voice known, can we just move forward on the details of the build now?

To date no one has come up with an alternative that I am comfortable with and after months in the planning stages, and the hurry up and wait stages, or can't find a car stages, I would like to just enjoy my build and I encourage those who would like to follow the progress to check back here for updates.

To the rest of you who are just re-hashing the same resistance to my build, please only post if you have something new to contribute, just taking jabs and being sarcastic is getting tiresome. I've tried to be cool here, listening and responding to everyone on their opinions, but I'm really not sure how to respond to some of you guys who are just being obnoxious.

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Aug 26 2015, 08:16 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 26 2015, 04:17 PM) *

I am hoping to keep some of the roll bar in place since I may have to cut the Factory bar, but I won't know until I start fitting.

That should be easy to measure using the floorboard as a reference. You could even use pvc pipe as a cheap mockup.

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 26 2015, 06:48 PM) *

...just buy one of Chucks rollers. No need to reinvent the wheel.

At $60k there is some motivation to look at options. sad.gif

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Aug 26 2015, 08:09 PM) *

I'll bet there are some sporty guys in this country who would love to own a an old racecar

Me, yes, but no, can't afford it, but I would really like to see it saved. I've got a 72 4lug autoX car I could barter with, but it would require a bunch of Members volunteering to make it happen.
Makes me want to ask, what was wrong with dug's deal?


Posted by: dug Aug 27 2015, 03:39 AM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Aug 25 2015, 06:45 PM) *

Equally strange is that the 'historic' bodywork for the car is sitting neglected outside in the elements, thousands of miles from the chassis.

This is the kind of anal hypocrisy that gives preservationists a bad name.

I'll be following your build, good luck with it. popcorn[1].gif


I assure you the original bodywork and the one-of-a-kind rear wing is not stored outside in the elements. That photo was just a "quick put the body work on the car" shot taken the moment after it arrived. It's all locked up tight until I get the chassis ready.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Aug 27 2015, 09:41 AM

QUOTE(JDW914 @ Aug 26 2015, 08:35 AM) *
Weren't the originals all beefy 4-cylinders with DOHC, except for a few limited run 904/6s?


From my reading, the 904 was designed from the outset to use a version of the 901's six-cylinder motor. But they had problems making the engines--either making enough of them to satisfy demand, or making them race-worthy, so they switched to the tried-and-true Fuhrman four-cam. Eventually, they were able to use the six-cylinder engines that they had originally planned to, and of course there were the one or two that wound up with the early flat-eight motors.... drooley.gif

The 906 was a very different beast. The only thing it had in common with the 904 was the suspension uprights, because the Doctor insisted they use the parts that had been bought for possible future 904 construction. The rest was almost completely a clean-sheet design.

--DD

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Aug 27 2015, 10:07 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 27 2015, 11:41 AM) *

From my reading, the 904 was designed from the outset to use a version of the 901's six-cylinder motor. But they had problems making the engines--either making enough of them to satisfy demand, or making them race-worthy, so they switched to the tried-and-true Fuhrman four-cam. Eventually, they were able to use the six-cylinder engines that they had originally planned to, and of course there were the one or two that wound up with the early flat-eight motors.... drooley.gif

The 906 was a very different beast. The only thing it had in common with the 904 was the suspension uprights, because the Doctor insisted they use the parts that had been bought for possible future 904 construction. The rest was almost completely a clean-sheet design.

--DD

agree.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 27 2015, 10:16 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 27 2015, 07:41 AM) *

QUOTE(JDW914 @ Aug 26 2015, 08:35 AM) *
Weren't the originals all beefy 4-cylinders with DOHC, except for a few limited run 904/6s?


From my reading, the 904 was designed from the outset to use a version of the 901's six-cylinder motor. But they had problems making the engines--either making enough of them to satisfy demand, or making them race-worthy, so they switched to the tried-and-true Fuhrman four-cam. Eventually, they were able to use the six-cylinder engines that they had originally planned to, and of course there were the one or two that wound up with the early flat-eight motors.... drooley.gif

The 906 was a very different beast. The only thing it had in common with the 904 was the suspension uprights, because the Doctor insisted they use the parts that had been bought for possible future 904 construction. The rest was almost completely a clean-sheet design.

--DD


In Sept and Oct I am going to see and photograph both a 904 and a 906, so once I do that I can report back about differences.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Aug 27 2015, 10:33 AM

Found this thread in another forum- this guy appears to have built his replica 904 from scratch. Lots of very interesting info & pics:

http://forums.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?76341-My-904-replica-build-thread

Posted by: Dave_Darling Aug 27 2015, 11:52 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 09:16 AM) *
In Sept and Oct I am going to see and photograph both a 904 and a 906, so once I do that I can report back about differences.


I believe you'll find that the 904 has something approaching a unit-body design, where a floor pan and lower panels were pressed from steel and welded together, then the plastic body bonded on top of that. (Trivia: Body by Heinkel, the aircraft builders!)

The 906 had a tubular space-frame, and the plastic body was attached to that.

Very different animals...

--DD

Posted by: gms Aug 27 2015, 11:58 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 27 2015, 12:52 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 09:16 AM) *
In Sept and Oct I am going to see and photograph both a 904 and a 906, so once I do that I can report back about differences.


I believe you'll find that the 904 has something approaching a unit-body design, where a floor pan and lower panels were pressed from steel and welded together, then the plastic body bonded on top of that. (Trivia: Body by Heinkel, the aircraft builders!)

The 906 had a tubular space-frame, and the plastic body was attached to that.

Very different animals...

--DD

The 904 floor is fiberglass the frame is steal

Posted by: gms Aug 27 2015, 12:00 PM

This will be the real challenge
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Posted by: gms Aug 27 2015, 12:04 PM

Do you cut the 914 in half and remove 6 inches or do you cut the 904 body and add 6 inches to the door and roof?
or
Do you move the trailing arms forward to get the wheel in the 904 wheel well?

Posted by: mepstein Aug 27 2015, 01:28 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 27 2015, 01:52 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 09:16 AM) *
In Sept and Oct I am going to see and photograph both a 904 and a 906, so once I do that I can report back about differences.


I believe you'll find that the 904 has something approaching a unit-body design, where a floor pan and lower panels were pressed from steel and welded together, then the plastic body bonded on top of that. (Trivia: Body by Heinkel, the aircraft builders!)

The 906 had a tubular space-frame, and the plastic body was attached to that.

Very different animals...

--DD

I'm pretty sure the 904 was a road car while the 906 was only a race car.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Aug 27 2015, 01:54 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Aug 27 2015, 03:28 PM) *

I'm pretty sure the 904 was a road car while the 906 was only a race car.

The 904 has often been referred to as the last "dual purpose" Porsche. It was designed for both street & track use. The 906 was designed from the get go as a race car, but I think a few may have been legalized for street use. To be honest I'm not sure on that, my memory has gotten hazy over the years. biggrin.gif

Posted by: sbsix Aug 27 2015, 02:02 PM

Jeff Zwart owns a 906 that he races and drives on the street. A few years back Peter Egan wrote a Road & Track column on a road trip they took up the California coast in it.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Aug 27 2015, 02:07 PM

I recall reading that buyers of 906s were advised to arrive the factory with a trailer.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 27 2015, 02:33 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 08:16 AM) *

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 27 2015, 07:41 AM) *

QUOTE(JDW914 @ Aug 26 2015, 08:35 AM) *
Weren't the originals all beefy 4-cylinders with DOHC, except for a few limited run 904/6s?


From my reading, the 904 was designed from the outset to use a version of the 901's six-cylinder motor. But they had problems making the engines--either making enough of them to satisfy demand, or making them race-worthy, so they switched to the tried-and-true Fuhrman four-cam. Eventually, they were able to use the six-cylinder engines that they had originally planned to, and of course there were the one or two that wound up with the early flat-eight motors.... drooley.gif

The 906 was a very different beast. The only thing it had in common with the 904 was the suspension uprights, because the Doctor insisted they use the parts that had been bought for possible future 904 construction. The rest was almost completely a clean-sheet design.

--DD


Sorry, I meant to say I was going to look at 904 and a 904/6, not a 906. I do know where one is, if I can just find that time machine....Rory, that's you in the driver's seat of the 550, right?

In Sept and Oct I am going to see and photograph both a 904 and a 906, so once I do that I can report back about differences.



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Attached Image

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 27 2015, 02:36 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 27 2015, 10:04 AM) *

Do you cut the 914 in half and remove 6 inches or do you cut the 904 body and add 6 inches to the door and roof?
or
Do you move the trailing arms forward to get the wheel in the 904 wheel well?


I am hoping to take the 5-ish inches out of the 914, but as a backup I have a couple of spots I can add inches to the 904 body.
The rear clam-shell of the 904 falls exactly where it needs to on the 914, so no moving there. I measured on the 904 and the 914 and from the back firewall to the middle of the wheel is almost exact.

Posted by: bandjoey Aug 27 2015, 02:50 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 03:33 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 08:16 AM) *

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 27 2015, 07:41 AM) *

QUOTE(JDW914 @ Aug 26 2015, 08:35 AM) *
Weren't the originals all beefy 4-cylinders with DOHC, except for a few limited run 904/6s?


From my reading, the 904 was designed from the outset to use a version of the 901's six-cylinder motor. But they had problems making the engines--either making enough of them to satisfy demand, or making them race-worthy, so they switched to the tried-and-true Fuhrman four-cam. Eventually, they were able to use the six-cylinder engines that they had originally planned to, and of course there were the one or two that wound up with the early flat-eight motors.... drooley.gif

The 906 was a very different beast. The only thing it had in common with the 904 was the suspension uprights, because the Doctor insisted they use the parts that had been bought for possible future 904 construction. The rest was almost completely a clean-sheet design.

--DD




Sorry, I meant to say I was going to look at 904 and a 904/6, not a 906. I do know where one is, if I can just find that time machine....Rory, that's you in the driver's seat of the 550, right?

In Sept and Oct I am going to see and photograph both a 904 and a 906, so once I do that I can report back about differences.




Makes me sick to see such great cars sitting outside rotting away. hissyfit.gif

Posted by: Chris914n6 Aug 27 2015, 04:21 PM

QUOTE(bandjoey @ Aug 27 2015, 01:50 PM) *

Makes me sick to see such great cars sitting outside rotting away. hissyfit.gif

Relax. See the leaves under the cars? Safe to assume it's a show and tell.

Fun 904 stuff...

https://www.stuttcars.com/porsche-models/904/carrera-gts/

Original complete body. http://www.the904store.com/fiberbod.htm

http://www.carbuildindex.com/27616/porsche-906-116-restoration/

IPB Image

http://drawingdatabase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Gt904-2.jpg

Posted by: Mueller Aug 27 2015, 04:30 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Aug 27 2015, 03:21 PM) *

QUOTE(bandjoey @ Aug 27 2015, 01:50 PM) *

Makes me sick to see such great cars sitting outside rotting away. hissyfit.gif

Relax. See the leaves under the cars? Safe to assume it's a show and tell.

Fun 904 stuff...

https://www.stuttcars.com/porsche-models/904/carrera-gts/

Original complete body. http://www.the904store.com/fiberbod.htm

http://www.carbuildindex.com/27616/porsche-906-116-restoration/

IPB Image

http://drawingdatabase.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Gt904-2.jpg



That last picture is suitable to send off to Staples to make a huge poster!


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 27 2015, 05:53 PM

[/quote]


Makes me sick to see such great cars sitting outside rotting away. hissyfit.gif
[/quote]

Remember when these pics were taken, they weren't treated as great cars, they were just used up race cars. I think he paid $1500 for the Spyder and $5000 for the 906. You should see the back field at his place, look at your own peril.

https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2009/05/19/356-graveyard-part-deux/



Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 27 2015, 06:08 PM

I remember when I was a kid in the mid 70's or so, a local PCA member bought a 906 for like $10,000 and drove it at DEs for a while. If only ....

Posted by: rgalla9146 Aug 27 2015, 06:34 PM

Uh....... that is my brother- in- law Bill in the 550.
He is currently restoring a 1964 356 SCGT that has extensive Northeast hill climb history.
My brother Robert is standing between the cars.
There are probably a couple cans of beer there too.
Both are long time Porsche owners and enthusiasts.
The picture is circa '76 ?
Those cars were the tip of a 356 iceberg at that location.
I was along on some of those adventures.
I was a late starter, got my first 914 in about 1977.
In those days there was no place to drive an old race car.
Today you'll be invited to come to some of the greatest Porsche spectacles ever..... if you own a car that raced back in the day.
Robert must have provided the picture.
Rory Gallagher
......both pictures

Posted by: r_towle Aug 27 2015, 06:39 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 27 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Do you cut the 914 in half and remove 6 inches or do you cut the 904 body and add 6 inches to the door and roof?
or
Do you move the trailing arms forward to get the wheel in the 904 wheel well?

Build a rectangle tube frame and move the trailing arms forward.
A rectangle will pick up the four mounting points of the front arms, and has been done to add the same suspension to a 356.

I cannot fit in a stock 904 at 6'2"

I can however fit in a beck 904 which I recall is six inches longer.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 27 2015, 07:06 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Aug 27 2015, 04:34 PM) *

Uh....... that is my brother- in- law Bill in the 550.
He is currently restoring a 1964 356 SCGT that has extensive Northeast hill climb history.
My brother Robert is standing between the cars.
There are probably a couple cans of beer there too.
Both are long time Porsche owners and enthusiasts.
The picture is circa '76 ?
Those cars were the tip of a 356 iceberg at that location.
I was along on some of those adventures.
I was a late starter, got my first 914 in about 1977.
In those days there was no place to drive an old race car.
Today you'll be invited to come to some of the greatest Porsche spectacles ever..... if you own a car that raced back in the day.
Robert must have provided the picture.
Rory Gallagher
......both pictures

Sorry, Rory, Robert did give me the pics, I always figured that was you in the pics, with the 70s hair and staches all you guys kind of looked alike.

Posted by: carr914 Aug 27 2015, 08:14 PM

Is this the Goal?

Attached Image

Posted by: wndsnd Aug 27 2015, 08:32 PM

That is just not right ... blink.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 27 2015, 10:04 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Aug 27 2015, 06:14 PM) *

Is this the Goal?

Attached Image

WTF.gif

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 27 2015, 10:37 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 11:04 PM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Aug 27 2015, 06:14 PM) *

Is this the Goal?

Attached Image

WTF.gif


You mean you haven't seen this car before?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 27 2015, 10:57 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 27 2015, 08:37 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 11:04 PM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Aug 27 2015, 06:14 PM) *

Is this the Goal?

Attached Image

WTF.gif


You mean you haven't seen this car before?

Everyone has seen the Hussey Special, I grew up in Atlanta, I might of actually seen it. I'm wondering what that has to do with this discussion?

Posted by: dug Aug 28 2015, 04:13 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 26 2015, 09:37 PM) *

Chris-
I explained what didn't work with Dug's deal previously and don't really want to re-hash since Dug took offense to our different view points...


Fact: Adam ended our direct discussion with the words "We are done talking."

I do not get offended. I get annoyed at people who don't understand reason and logic, but I don't get offended.

I would quote Inigo Montoya again, but... nevermind.

cheers,
dug

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 28 2015, 06:36 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 11:57 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 27 2015, 08:37 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 11:04 PM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Aug 27 2015, 06:14 PM) *

Is this the Goal?

Attached Image

WTF.gif


You mean you haven't seen this car before?

Everyone has seen the Hussey Special, I grew up in Atlanta, I might of actually seen it. I'm wondering what that has to do with this discussion?


That's what your building out of a historically significate IMSA chassis right? confused24.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 28 2015, 06:44 AM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 28 2015, 04:36 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 11:57 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Aug 27 2015, 08:37 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 27 2015, 11:04 PM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Aug 27 2015, 06:14 PM) *

Is this the Goal?

Attached Image

WTF.gif


You mean you haven't seen this car before?

Everyone has seen the Hussey Special, I grew up in Atlanta, I might of actually seen it. I'm wondering what that has to do with this discussion?


That's what your building out of a historically significate IMSA chassis right? confused24.gif


If you're asking that question than I'm not sure how to answer you...

Posted by: bandjoey Aug 28 2015, 07:02 AM

I've spent hours reading your blogs ( and I'm not 1/3 the way through ) After saving and documenting a few hundred 356's, no one can say you're not interested in saving special cars.

People...if you haven't - read 'em! I recommend Admins lock this down, stop the crazy talk, and a new 904 build thread be started. IMHO. beerchug.gif

Posted by: zipedadoo Aug 28 2015, 07:16 AM

agree.gif

While this has been fun.......let's move on to the build. beerchug.gif

Posted by: scotty b Aug 28 2015, 07:20 AM

The horse is now a pile of bones, blood and bodily fluids seeping into the ground dead horse.gif dead horse.gif dead horse.gif


This whole train wreck has gotten down right childish. IMHO all of you either need to put up or shut up. We've seen plenty of threads turn ugly round here, but this one in particular has resorted to nothing but name calling and a bunch of he said, she said, I said bullshit all around. Get the fuck over it and go work on your own car. Adam isn't changing his mind, Dug isn't changing his mind. Opinions and assholes ........ and assholes with opinions dry.gif


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 28 2015, 07:27 AM

This thread would be a lot more fun if the people who dis-agree with the build would start their own thread and take their jabs and such there.
A large number of people are very excited about the build and have been very supportive, it's just a few of you guys who can't stop heckling but you're ruining it for everybody else. Except for the lurkers who love the drama, but even they are probably getting bored by now.
Move on.

Posted by: gms Aug 28 2015, 09:19 AM

Adam are you going to Rennsport?

Posted by: gms Aug 28 2015, 09:24 AM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 27 2015, 07:39 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 27 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Do you cut the 914 in half and remove 6 inches or do you cut the 904 body and add 6 inches to the door and roof?
or
Do you move the trailing arms forward to get the wheel in the 904 wheel well?

Build a rectangle tube frame and move the trailing arms forward.
A rectangle will pick up the four mounting points of the front arms, and has been done to add the same suspension to a 356.

I cannot fit in a stock 904 at 6'2"

I can however fit in a beck 904 which I recall is six inches longer.

I agree, from the start I have advocated a tube frame because it will be lighter and you can put this suspension on it.

Attached Image

Posted by: Mueller Aug 28 2015, 10:16 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 28 2015, 08:24 AM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 27 2015, 07:39 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 27 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Do you cut the 914 in half and remove 6 inches or do you cut the 904 body and add 6 inches to the door and roof?
or
Do you move the trailing arms forward to get the wheel in the 904 wheel well?

Build a rectangle tube frame and move the trailing arms forward.
A rectangle will pick up the four mounting points of the front arms, and has been done to add the same suspension to a 356.

I cannot fit in a stock 904 at 6'2"

I can however fit in a beck 904 which I recall is six inches longer.

I agree, from the start I have advocated a tube frame because it will be lighter and you can put this suspension on it.

Attached Image


^ditto...

Personally for me, I see no real value in the history of the donor chassis...I was never into IMSA or whatever series they ran in...might as well be a Lemons car to me smile.gif

That being said, the only reason I'd want to use any 914 chassis for this project is for easily registering it for street use.

I also think a custom framed and better equipped suspension 904 would get a lot more respect or admiration and possibly handle a lot better than throwing a 904 shell on a very heavily cut up 914 chassis.

I'm looking forward to the build, but I'd really like it if it was more custom and not basically a one-off kit car build using a 914 donor instead the typical Fiero donor chassis.










Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 28 2015, 10:28 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 28 2015, 07:19 AM) *

Adam are you going to Rennsport?

I went to the last two but I'm not going to this one. It fell during my birthday weekend and I didn't want to be away from the kids on my b-day. Plus, Cali is sooooo expensive, hotels, planes, food, gas, it all adds up.

Oh, and that's me sitting in the car, but not the one racing.



Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 28 2015, 10:42 AM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Aug 28 2015, 08:16 AM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 28 2015, 08:24 AM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 27 2015, 07:39 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 27 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Do you cut the 914 in half and remove 6 inches or do you cut the 904 body and add 6 inches to the door and roof?
or
Do you move the trailing arms forward to get the wheel in the 904 wheel well?

Build a rectangle tube frame and move the trailing arms forward.
A rectangle will pick up the four mounting points of the front arms, and has been done to add the same suspension to a 356.

I cannot fit in a stock 904 at 6'2"

I can however fit in a beck 904 which I recall is six inches longer.

I agree, from the start I have advocated a tube frame because it will be lighter and you can put this suspension on it.

Attached Image


^ditto...

Personally for me, I see no real value in the history of the donor chassis...I was never into IMSA or whatever series they ran in...might as well be a Lemons car to me smile.gif

That being said, the only reason I'd want to use any 914 chassis for this project is for easily registering it for street use.

I also think a custom framed and better equipped suspension 904 would get a lot more respect or admiration and possibly handle a lot better than throwing a 904 shell on a very heavily cut up 914 chassis.

I'm looking forward to the build, but I'd really like it if it was more custom and not basically a one-off kit car build using a 914 donor instead the typical Fiero donor chassis.


I'm already looking into changing the front suspension, one of the pitfalls Chuck Beck pointed out was the height of the shock tower in relation to the lowered hood line of the 904.

Posted by: gms Aug 28 2015, 11:20 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 28 2015, 11:42 AM) *

QUOTE(Mueller @ Aug 28 2015, 08:16 AM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 28 2015, 08:24 AM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 27 2015, 07:39 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 27 2015, 02:04 PM) *

Do you cut the 914 in half and remove 6 inches or do you cut the 904 body and add 6 inches to the door and roof?
or
Do you move the trailing arms forward to get the wheel in the 904 wheel well?

Build a rectangle tube frame and move the trailing arms forward.
A rectangle will pick up the four mounting points of the front arms, and has been done to add the same suspension to a 356.

I cannot fit in a stock 904 at 6'2"

I can however fit in a beck 904 which I recall is six inches longer.

I agree, from the start I have advocated a tube frame because it will be lighter and you can put this suspension on it.

Attached Image


^ditto...

Personally for me, I see no real value in the history of the donor chassis...I was never into IMSA or whatever series they ran in...might as well be a Lemons car to me smile.gif

That being said, the only reason I'd want to use any 914 chassis for this project is for easily registering it for street use.

I also think a custom framed and better equipped suspension 904 would get a lot more respect or admiration and possibly handle a lot better than throwing a 904 shell on a very heavily cut up 914 chassis.

I'm looking forward to the build, but I'd really like it if it was more custom and not basically a one-off kit car build using a 914 donor instead the typical Fiero donor chassis.


I'm already looking into changing the front suspension, one of the pitfalls Chuck Beck pointed out was the height of the shock tower in relation to the lowered hood line of the 904.

I definitely thought the macpherson strut set-up would create a problem being too tall. I would also get rid of the torsion bars system. maybe look into a mid-1990s Honda Civic unequal length double wishbone suspension.

Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 28 2015, 11:35 AM

Or substantially shorten the strut and use shorter inserts. Then you could lower the shock tower. Could be done, though not for the faint of heart ...

Posted by: Mueller Aug 28 2015, 11:39 AM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Aug 28 2015, 10:35 AM) *

Or substantially shorten the strut and use shorter inserts. Then you could lower the shock tower. Could be done, though not for the faint of heart ...



Not too difficult, did this on my 242 to run Koni Race inserts...shortened the strut assembly 3".

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 28 2015, 11:39 AM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Aug 28 2015, 09:35 AM) *

Or substantially shorten the strut and use shorter inserts. Then you could lower the shock tower. Could be done, though not for the faint of heart ...


I'm liking that idea, fancy a trip upstate?

Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 28 2015, 12:30 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 28 2015, 01:39 PM) *

I'm liking that idea, fancy a trip upstate?



Thank you for the invite. I'd love to check out your place sometime. I see you have the open house on 9/5. Unfortunately I'll be our of town that weekend ..

Scott

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 30 2015, 10:46 PM

xx

Posted by: zambezi Aug 30 2015, 11:14 PM

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: veekry9 Aug 31 2015, 01:41 PM

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF- 8#q=Competition+Car+Composites+by+Simon+McBeath+Race+and+Rally+Source+Book+by+Al
an+Staniforth+Competition+Car+Suspension+by+Alan+Staniforth+How+to+Build+Motorcy
cle+engine+Racing+Cars+by+Tony+Pashley

Sum linx,book learnin.

Posted by: gereed75 Aug 31 2015, 01:49 PM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Aug 28 2015, 01:35 PM) *

Or substantially shorten the strut and use shorter inserts. Then you could lower the shock tower. Could be done, though not for the faint of heart ...


Why go through all of that when this is available http://www.coolrydescustoms.com/store/c2/MENDEOLA_SUSPENSION.html And it is not real pricey

Posted by: naro914 Aug 31 2015, 04:06 PM

I've just spent (wasted??) that last hour+ reading through all 15 pages of this thread...

The biggest thing that upsets me is: how did I miss that car when it was on eBay for $15000??? I have always wanted a historically significant 914 race car, but they have always been way out of my league price wise....If I would have known about this car, I would have bought it instantly and restored it to its racing glory for vintage racing.

Adam, what you see as 'old and tired', vintage racers see as 'history and exciting'. What you say was 'obsolete in racing' is certainly not in the vintage world...

You keep saying you're making it a Porsche, but are you? To me, and to many, it's a kit car just like all the VW based kit cars - a fiberglass body on a VW chassis. The body is NOT made by Porsche, you're going to have to hack the chassis smaller (good luck with that btw). So no, it's not a Porsche any more than Beck's cars are Porsche's. I had a Beck 550 Spyder with a Porsche engine, Porsche transmission and Porsche suspension components in it...and guess what? It was still a kit car...

Some very smart people here have posted some of the engineering hurdles you are going to face - most of which are going to be VERY expensive and VERY tricky to overcome. It is really worth it just to say you were able to make a 904 out of a 914?

You bought the car, you obviously have every right to do what you want. It just saddens me to see a true piece of Porsche racing history - and something I always wanted to own - cut up to build a kit car.

Good luck with your build.

Posted by: wndsnd Aug 31 2015, 04:14 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 31 2015, 12:46 AM) *

Took this shot of the dash, some more recent history.




Posting these pictures doesnt actually help you win over the dissenters either.




Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 31 2015, 06:57 PM

QUOTE(naro914 @ Aug 31 2015, 02:06 PM) *

I've just spent (wasted??) that last hour+ reading through all 15 pages of this thread...

The biggest thing that upsets me is: how did I miss that car when it was on eBay for $15000??? I have always wanted a historically significant 914 race car, but they have always been way out of my league price wise....If I would have known about this car, I would have bought it instantly and restored it to its racing glory for vintage racing.

Adam, what you see as 'old and tired', vintage racers see as 'history and exciting'. What you say was 'obsolete in racing' is certainly not in the vintage world...

You keep saying you're making it a Porsche, but are you? To me, and to many, it's a kit car just like all the VW based kit cars - a fiberglass body on a VW chassis. The body is NOT made by Porsche, you're going to have to hack the chassis smaller (good luck with that btw). So no, it's not a Porsche any more than Beck's cars are Porsche's. I had a Beck 550 Spyder with a Porsche engine, Porsche transmission and Porsche suspension components in it...and guess what? It was still a kit car...

Some very smart people here have posted some of the engineering hurdles you are going to face - most of which are going to be VERY expensive and VERY tricky to overcome. It is really worth it just to say you were able to make a 904 out of a 914?

You bought the car, you obviously have every right to do what you want. It just saddens me to see a true piece of Porsche racing history - and something I always wanted to own - cut up to build a kit car.

Good luck with your build.


I don't know how you missed it, the car has been for sale off and on since 2007, on Pelican, ebay, everywhere. It sold in 2011, and that guy never drove it, not once. He then tried to sell it on ebay forever, there were no takers except me.
As far as something being a kit car or not, if a car is on a Porsche chassis, and retains a Porsche VIN, it's a Porsche. Everytime something like this comes up I bring up 550-0001, when it was found in Guadalahara, a friend of mine was sent down to appraise it before it was auctioned off on the floor of the Shoe Factory where it was found. His client bought the car for about $400,000, bailed halfway through the restoration, and the Collier people took the baton and spend who knows how much restoring the car, but if you look at the restoration photos on my blog, very little of that car was ever touched by Porsche. In fact, my friend that went down there confided to me that there was enough original pieces on that car that he could have fit them all into his suitcase to fly home. Yet, 550-0001 is shown all around the world and I doubt anyone is walking up to it at the Collier Collection and saying it is anything other than the 1st Spyder, though my guess would be 15% of it is original.
So me re-bodying a 914 into a dream car it is still a Porsche. In fact I skinned the fiberglass body off the car when I got it, so putting a new skin on really doesn't change much. Not everyone will agree with me, but then I had plenty of nay-sayers when I first starting cutting on Da Spoodster, plenty of people said I should have welded a roof back on and made it back into a 58 A Coupe, except it was my car, my dream, and I had buyers begging me for the car before it was even finished.

Here are pics of 550-0001 on my blog:
<https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/porsche-550-01-spyder-the-prototype-giant-killer/>
https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/porsche-550-01-spyder-the-prototype-giant-killer/

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Aug 31 2015, 07:34 PM

Just get on with it already. You ain't selling, so might as well start sawzall-smiley.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 31 2015, 08:08 PM

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Aug 31 2015, 05:34 PM) *

Just get on with it already. You ain't selling, so might as well start sawzall-smiley.gif


I'm months away from cutting on anything but the center seat wonder.

Posted by: mgp4591 Sep 1 2015, 02:47 AM

That 550-0001 is SO damn hot looking with that custom roof! Any other pictures of it with the roof on after completion- you never know where you might get your next idea to make a car unique! smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: gereed75 Sep 1 2015, 06:42 AM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Sep 1 2015, 04:47 AM) *

That 550-0001 is SO damn hot looking with that custom roof! Any other pictures of it with the roof on after completion- you never know where you might get your next idea to make a car unique! smilie_pokal.gif


0001 was a painstaking reproduction of a Porsche probably using original factory drawings to get every detail exactly as the factory made it, using period correct replacement parts where available. There is no correlation to that effort and hacking a 914 to fit under a 904 body. You are not starting with even 15% of an original 904

I am not suggesting that you ever said that you are trying to create a 904 reproduction. I am only suggesting that using 0001 as an analogy to your situation is a very big stretch.

Besides the fact that you are destroying a historic race car (and any upside value that it might have to you or anyone else) I think it is your logic that using this old race car as a base will somehow give your car more pedigree is very vexing to some people.

Had you just said "I am hacking up an old 914 to try to fit under a 904' you would have heard nothing but encouragements

How about this idea.... Print up some for sale flyers emphasing the car's history and give them to someone going to Rennsport reunion who is willing to hawk it for you. I bet you sell the car for enough to buy a conversion if your single seat cut trials prove that this is a doable project. You have time to do that, it might save the historic car and if the project turns out to be not feasible, you are bucks ahead.

Peace,out.

PS. I recently saw the old #40 look alike car at an historic race. It was sold by Aircooled Racing. You saw it at Hersey. It had no where near the provenance of your car and was in very sorry shape. I believe the guy paid $40,000.00

Posted by: wingnut86 Sep 1 2015, 06:56 AM

popcorn[1].gif beer3.gif sheeplove.gif

sawzall-smiley.gif

Cut-Her-Up...

Bring out the Torch!

...in other words - It's His Money, and his time.

Get over it... slap.gif

Posted by: gereed75 Sep 1 2015, 07:01 AM

QUOTE(wingnut86 @ Sep 1 2015, 08:56 AM) *

popcorn[1].gif beer3.gif sheeplove.gif

sawzall-smiley.gif

Cut-Her-Up...

Bring out the Torch!

...in other words - It's His Money, and his time.

Get over it... slap.gif



We are all over it. Just trying to save a valuable historic car from an undeserved fate.

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 1 2015, 07:41 AM

good luck with that.

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 1 2015, 08:16 AM

Thank goodness they didn't make 550-001 into a 356/1 replica....hey it's a cooler looking Porsche and has a mid-engine right biggrin.gif

Who cares if 550-001 has race history, I like the look of 356/1 better.

hide.gif
just messing with you

On a more important note, has unobtanium gotten any sort-of-round 356 speaker grills, or 6v external driving lights? I need some for my car, talked over the idea of the lights with Scotty and I want to see how they'll look.

Posted by: wingnut86 Sep 1 2015, 08:20 AM

Noted:

OomPah Loompah knee-breakers dispatched to your location

beer.gif evilgrin.gif

QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Sep 1 2015, 10:16 AM) *

Thank goodness they didn't make 550-001 into a 356/1 replica....hey it's a cooler looking Porsche and has a mid-engine right biggrin.gif

Who cares if 550-001 has race history, I like the look of 356/1 better.

hide.gif


Posted by: 914Timo Sep 1 2015, 02:30 PM

If I understood correctly, your idea was to use ready 914 conversion to save time and work in this project. Now you are talking about chancing the whole front suspension and shortening the wheelbase many inches. To me it sounds welding the front engine mount to any 914 is just piece of cake compared what you are doing. I have done only one 914-6 conversion, and welding that mount was one of the easiest part in the whole process. Finding all the parts and enough information how to do it were my problems. I did my conversion 14 years ago and didn´t have any helping 914 friends here in north Europe. If you have done all the cars I have understood and own that much engines, transmissions and other parts you mentioned before, making a conversion shouldn´t be any problem for you. Actually, my opinion is, it would be a lot easier to start from all original non-modified 914 tub. I suppose you will have to cut and modify that rollcage. A lot. So, at the end it will look like that too. Old modified rollcage. A compromise. But, if you are after some rat-904-look, maybe thats what you are looking for. I hate rats and all rat-lookers.

I am not going to hide I like old restored racing cars. I think Mr Stazak and others here are doing wonderful job restoring those old racers. But, as much as I like them, I would also like to see one well done and hi-quality 904/914 conversion kit-car. You have very nice idea, but I think you should re-consider you starting point. I am sure it will pay back later shades.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 02:42 PM

QUOTE(914Timo @ Sep 1 2015, 12:30 PM) *

If I understood correctly, your idea was to use ready 914 conversion to save time and work in this project. Now you are talking about chancing the whole front suspension and shortening the wheelbase many inches. To me it sounds welding the front engine mount to any 914 is just piece of cake compared what you are doing. I have done only one 914-6 conversion, and welding that mount was one of the easiest part in the whole process. Finding all the parts and enough information how to do it were my problems. I did my conversion 14 years ago and didn´t have any helping 914 friends here in north Europe. If you have done all the cars I have understood and own that much engines, transmissions and other parts you mentioned before, making a conversion shouldn´t be any problem for you. Actually, my opinion is, it would be a lot easier to start from all original non-modified 914 tub. I suppose you will have to cut and modify that rollcage. A lot. So, at the end it will look like that too. Old modified rollcage. A compromise. But, if you are after some rat-904-look, maybe thats what you are looking for. I hate rats and all rat-lookers.

I am not going to hide I like old restored racing cars. I think Mr Stazak and others here are doing wonderful job restoring those old racers. But, as much as I like them, I would also like to see one well done and hi-quality 904/914 conversion kit-car. You have very nice idea, but I think you should re-consider you starting point. I am sure it will pay back later shades.gif


Doing a conversion isn't that tough, I agree, but finding a known 6 motor, gearbox, and brakes, and getting them all working is the problem. That's while all the shops were quoting me $20000-30000 to do it. Priced a 911 engine rebuild lately?

All I wanted with this project was a running and driving six cylinder car, and the only one under $30,000 I could find was this one. I've now dropped more money into it and it is fully sorted, right where I need it. To date no one has wanted it bad enough to make me an acceptable offer. And yes, I have set the conditions of deal high, because I worked hard to find a car, had to ship it here, get it sorted, and now and only now can I really start on the rest of the project so I'm not going to be quick to start over with a bunch of unknowns. I doubt any one of you guys would feel any different in my place, in fact I know you wouldn't because when I put the word out to buy a 914/6 conversion everyone on this board who wanted to sell me one gave me a long list of hills they had to climb to do their car, so that's why they wanted high money for their car. That was their right, just as it is mine.

Posted by: MMW Sep 1 2015, 03:13 PM

I plan to head up to Adam's on Saturday for the open house. Can't wait to check this out in person & hear it run.

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 1 2015, 06:14 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 03:42 PM) *

QUOTE(914Timo @ Sep 1 2015, 12:30 PM) *

If I understood correctly, your idea was to use ready 914 conversion to save time and work in this project. Now you are talking about chancing the whole front suspension and shortening the wheelbase many inches. To me it sounds welding the front engine mount to any 914 is just piece of cake compared what you are doing. I have done only one 914-6 conversion, and welding that mount was one of the easiest part in the whole process. Finding all the parts and enough information how to do it were my problems. I did my conversion 14 years ago and didn´t have any helping 914 friends here in north Europe. If you have done all the cars I have understood and own that much engines, transmissions and other parts you mentioned before, making a conversion shouldn´t be any problem for you. Actually, my opinion is, it would be a lot easier to start from all original non-modified 914 tub. I suppose you will have to cut and modify that rollcage. A lot. So, at the end it will look like that too. Old modified rollcage. A compromise. But, if you are after some rat-904-look, maybe thats what you are looking for. I hate rats and all rat-lookers.

I am not going to hide I like old restored racing cars. I think Mr Stazak and others here are doing wonderful job restoring those old racers. But, as much as I like them, I would also like to see one well done and hi-quality 904/914 conversion kit-car. You have very nice idea, but I think you should re-consider you starting point. I am sure it will pay back later shades.gif


Doing a conversion isn't that tough, I agree, but finding a known 6 motor, gearbox, and brakes, and getting them all working is the problem. That's while all the shops were quoting me $20000-30000 to do it. Priced a 911 engine rebuild lately?

All I wanted with this project was a running and driving six cylinder car, and the only one under $30,000 I could find was this one. I've now dropped more money into it and it is fully sorted, right where I need it. To date no one has wanted it bad enough to make me an acceptable offer. And yes, I have set the conditions of deal high, because I worked hard to find a car, had to ship it here, get it sorted, and now and only now can I really start on the rest of the project so I'm not going to be quick to start over with a bunch of unknowns. I doubt any one of you guys would feel any different in my place, in fact I know you wouldn't because when I put the word out to buy a 914/6 conversion everyone on this board who wanted to sell me one gave me a long list of hills they had to climb to do their car, so that's why they wanted high money for their car. That was their right, just as it is mine.


Waa Waa Waa so what is YOUR price for this car, I guess I missed it? All I see is you want a VIN that is from a Porsche and nothing else because if you have to hack the 914 chassis as much as it is looking you need to do for this, then that is all you have left. All the conversion parts can be bought anywhere.

Yes I seen the racecar for sale also, but I couldn't justify spending the money as I am not a roadracer.

agree.gif with gereed75 when he said

"How about this idea.... Print up some for sale flyers emphasing the car's history and give them to someone going to Rennsport reunion who is willing to hawk it for you. I bet you sell the car for enough to buy a conversion if your single seat cut trials prove that this is a doable project. You have time to do that, it might save the historic car and if the project turns out to be not feasible, you are bucks ahead."

What do you have to loose? A chance to make some money above what you have spent so far. In the end you are going to find that making a tube frame chassis for your 904 project will save you tons of time & $$ in the long run.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 06:32 PM

I'm not sure why I keep having to say the same things trying to justify my project on a car no one wanted. And still no one really wants it or they would have made a real offer for it.

So let's do this, let's focus on the ideas for the project, those were coming in nice. If you don't agree with the build, we have heard everyone's opinion on that.

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 1 2015, 06:34 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 07:32 PM) *

I'm not sure why I keep having to say the same things trying to justify my project on a car no one wanted. And still no one really wants it or they would have made a real offer for it.

So let's do this, let's focus on the ideas for the project, those were coming in nice. If you don't agree with the build, we have heard everyone's opinion on that.


Yes REALLY you keep saying no one has made you a real offer so........ how much will it take??? $30k, $40K, $50k.......$1 dollar confused24.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 06:51 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Sep 1 2015, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 07:32 PM) *

I'm not sure why I keep having to say the same things trying to justify my project on a car no one wanted. And still no one really wants it or they would have made a real offer for it.

So let's do this, let's focus on the ideas for the project, those were coming in nice. If you don't agree with the build, we have heard everyone's opinion on that.


Yes REALLY you keep saying no one has made you a real offer so........ how much will it take??? $30k, $40K, $50k.......$1 dollar confused24.gif


I don't want to sell it, I've said that from the beginning. I found the car, bought it, shipped it, paid $$$ to sort it, and now it's ready. When I first started the project I had several months to play with before the body was done so when there was an uproar on the forum about the car and the project I extended the offer if anyone wanted to trade their running driving six conversion for it, even with horrible cosmetics, I would entertain the offer. I got nothing, crickets, silence. Now months later I have received a couple of offers that have not come close to what I said I would trade for. So no I don't have a price to sell the car, I don't want to sell it. I am also out of time because the body is here and I want to start on the project, not have to go back to square one on the project. So once again, the car was offered to the 914 community months ago and no one wanted it, or didn't want it bad enough to give up their car. It's too bad that for the people who profess they would and should do everything to save this car, either don't have the money for it, or don't really care enough. I came out of the pocket to buy the car when no one else would, I came out of the pocket to get the car up to snuff, and now I'm the bad guy because I want to use the car for my project. This is America, if you want something, you buy it, I did, when no one else would. This car had been for sale off and on for 8 years, yes 8 years. So everyone had a shot to buy it, no one cared. But now that I have thousands invested everyone wants to crucify me. It's getting real tiresome. I put the thread on here because I thought I was doing something pretty cool, taking a car that had been put out to pasture and breathing new life into it, jumping through a lot of hurdles on the way, to build one of my dream cars, and all I've gotten out of a bunch of you is grief, so please, go talk trash somewhere else, or come by on Saturday and say it to my face. But there are no new arguements here, or offers, or anything, just pissed off guys who don't even put there names to their words, taking jabs at a guy sharing his passion for Porsches and his latest project. Move on, grow up, get a massage, something, but please stop saying the same things, again and again and again.

Adam Wright
Unobtanium-Inc

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 1 2015, 07:17 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 07:51 PM) *

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Sep 1 2015, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 07:32 PM) *

I'm not sure why I keep having to say the same things trying to justify my project on a car no one wanted. And still no one really wants it or they would have made a real offer for it.

So let's do this, let's focus on the ideas for the project, those were coming in nice. If you don't agree with the build, we have heard everyone's opinion on that.


Yes REALLY you keep saying no one has made you a real offer so........ how much will it take??? $30k, $40K, $50k.......$1 dollar confused24.gif


I don't want to sell it, I've said that from the beginning. I found the car, bought it, shipped it, paid $$$ to sort it, and now it's ready. When I first started the project I had several months to play with before the body was done so when there was an uproar on the forum about the car and the project I extended the offer if anyone wanted to trade their running driving six conversion for it, even with horrible cosmetics, I would entertain the offer. I got nothing, crickets, silence. Now months later I have received a couple of offers that have not come close to what I said I would trade for. So no I don't have a price to sell the car, I don't want to sell it. I am also out of time because the body is here and I want to start on the project, not have to go back to square one on the project. So once again, the car was offered to the 914 community months ago and no one wanted it, or didn't want it bad enough to give up their car. It's too bad that for the people who profess they would and should do everything to save this car, either don't have the money for it, or don't really care enough. I came out of the pocket to buy the car when no one else would, I came out of the pocket to get the car up to snuff, and now I'm the bad guy because I want to use the car for my project. This is America, if you want something, you buy it, I did, when no one else would. This car had been for sale off and on for 8 years, yes 8 years. So everyone had a shot to buy it, no one cared. But now that I have thousands invested everyone wants to crucify me. It's getting real tiresome. I put the thread on here because I thought I was doing something pretty cool, taking a car that had been put out to pasture and breathing new life into it, jumping through a lot of hurdles on the way, to build one of my dream cars, and all I've gotten out of a bunch of you is grief, so please, go talk trash somewhere else, or come by on Saturday and say it to my face. But there are no new arguements here, or offers, or anything, just pissed off guys who don't even put there names to their words, taking jabs at a guy sharing his passion for Porsches and his latest project. Move on, grow up, get a massage, something, but please stop saying the same things, again and again and again.

Adam Wright
Unobtanium-Inc


Then I don't understand. You say no one has made you a real offer, but then say you don't want to sell it. confused24.gif

You are right you stepped up and bought it good for you. If it upsets you so much that others feel that using a 914 (in my case any 914) for this will not turn out like you want, then sorry.

The problem with text is you don't hear the persons inflection in their voice. I'm not saying your wrong for wanting to do this, but I just don't see how you will save any time using a 914 chassis at all. Why spend months cutting up a chassis when you can build a nice solid tube frame to fit the 904 body exactly? Use the /6 running gear and other stuff to make a sweet car.

As for coming to your place and telling to your face I would, but I don't live near you. I would gladly talk to you on the phone about it. And for the record my name is on all my posts.

Garold Shaffer

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 1 2015, 07:28 PM

Headin' sideways. IBTL.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 08:04 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Sep 1 2015, 05:17 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 07:51 PM) *

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Sep 1 2015, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 07:32 PM) *

I'm not sure why I keep having to say the same things trying to justify my project on a car no one wanted. And still no one really wants it or they would have made a real offer for it.

So let's do this, let's focus on the ideas for the project, those were coming in nice. If you don't agree with the build, we have heard everyone's opinion on that.


Yes REALLY you keep saying no one has made you a real offer so........ how much will it take??? $30k, $40K, $50k.......$1 dollar confused24.gif


I don't want to sell it, I've said that from the beginning. I found the car, bought it, shipped it, paid $$$ to sort it, and now it's ready. When I first started the project I had several months to play with before the body was done so when there was an uproar on the forum about the car and the project I extended the offer if anyone wanted to trade their running driving six conversion for it, even with horrible cosmetics, I would entertain the offer. I got nothing, crickets, silence. Now months later I have received a couple of offers that have not come close to what I said I would trade for. So no I don't have a price to sell the car, I don't want to sell it. I am also out of time because the body is here and I want to start on the project, not have to go back to square one on the project. So once again, the car was offered to the 914 community months ago and no one wanted it, or didn't want it bad enough to give up their car. It's too bad that for the people who profess they would and should do everything to save this car, either don't have the money for it, or don't really care enough. I came out of the pocket to buy the car when no one else would, I came out of the pocket to get the car up to snuff, and now I'm the bad guy because I want to use the car for my project. This is America, if you want something, you buy it, I did, when no one else would. This car had been for sale off and on for 8 years, yes 8 years. So everyone had a shot to buy it, no one cared. But now that I have thousands invested everyone wants to crucify me. It's getting real tiresome. I put the thread on here because I thought I was doing something pretty cool, taking a car that had been put out to pasture and breathing new life into it, jumping through a lot of hurdles on the way, to build one of my dream cars, and all I've gotten out of a bunch of you is grief, so please, go talk trash somewhere else, or come by on Saturday and say it to my face. But there are no new arguements here, or offers, or anything, just pissed off guys who don't even put there names to their words, taking jabs at a guy sharing his passion for Porsches and his latest project. Move on, grow up, get a massage, something, but please stop saying the same things, again and again and again.

Adam Wright
Unobtanium-Inc


Then I don't understand. You say no one has made you a real offer, but then say you don't want to sell it. confused24.gif

You are right you stepped up and bought it good for you. If it upsets you so much that others feel that using a 914 (in my case any 914) for this will not turn out like you want, then sorry.

The problem with text is you don't hear the persons inflection in their voice. I'm not saying your wrong for wanting to do this, but I just don't see how you will save any time using a 914 chassis at all. Why spend months cutting up a chassis when you can build a nice solid tube frame to fit the 904 body exactly? Use the /6 running gear and other stuff to make a sweet car.

As for coming to your place and telling to your face I would, but I don't live near you. I would gladly talk to you on the phone about it. And for the record my name is on all my posts.

Garold Shaffer


How is that hard to understand, I don't want to sell it, but if someone really wanted it and had an interest in saving it I said I would entertain the offer. Never once have I tried to use the thread to sell the car. So how about this, no I don't want to sell it, trade it, anything, I want to get on with my project, if you want to follow the thread great, many do, if you don't agree with the build, tell it to the mountain.
Are you still confused Garold?

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 1 2015, 08:23 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 09:04 PM) *

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Sep 1 2015, 05:17 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 07:51 PM) *

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Sep 1 2015, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 07:32 PM) *

I'm not sure why I keep having to say the same things trying to justify my project on a car no one wanted. And still no one really wants it or they would have made a real offer for it.

So let's do this, let's focus on the ideas for the project, those were coming in nice. If you don't agree with the build, we have heard everyone's opinion on that.


Yes REALLY you keep saying no one has made you a real offer so........ how much will it take??? $30k, $40K, $50k.......$1 dollar confused24.gif


I don't want to sell it, I've said that from the beginning. I found the car, bought it, shipped it, paid $$$ to sort it, and now it's ready. When I first started the project I had several months to play with before the body was done so when there was an uproar on the forum about the car and the project I extended the offer if anyone wanted to trade their running driving six conversion for it, even with horrible cosmetics, I would entertain the offer. I got nothing, crickets, silence. Now months later I have received a couple of offers that have not come close to what I said I would trade for. So no I don't have a price to sell the car, I don't want to sell it. I am also out of time because the body is here and I want to start on the project, not have to go back to square one on the project. So once again, the car was offered to the 914 community months ago and no one wanted it, or didn't want it bad enough to give up their car. It's too bad that for the people who profess they would and should do everything to save this car, either don't have the money for it, or don't really care enough. I came out of the pocket to buy the car when no one else would, I came out of the pocket to get the car up to snuff, and now I'm the bad guy because I want to use the car for my project. This is America, if you want something, you buy it, I did, when no one else would. This car had been for sale off and on for 8 years, yes 8 years. So everyone had a shot to buy it, no one cared. But now that I have thousands invested everyone wants to crucify me. It's getting real tiresome. I put the thread on here because I thought I was doing something pretty cool, taking a car that had been put out to pasture and breathing new life into it, jumping through a lot of hurdles on the way, to build one of my dream cars, and all I've gotten out of a bunch of you is grief, so please, go talk trash somewhere else, or come by on Saturday and say it to my face. But there are no new arguements here, or offers, or anything, just pissed off guys who don't even put there names to their words, taking jabs at a guy sharing his passion for Porsches and his latest project. Move on, grow up, get a massage, something, but please stop saying the same things, again and again and again.

Adam Wright
Unobtanium-Inc


Then I don't understand. You say no one has made you a real offer, but then say you don't want to sell it. confused24.gif

You are right you stepped up and bought it good for you. If it upsets you so much that others feel that using a 914 (in my case any 914) for this will not turn out like you want, then sorry.

The problem with text is you don't hear the persons inflection in their voice. I'm not saying your wrong for wanting to do this, but I just don't see how you will save any time using a 914 chassis at all. Why spend months cutting up a chassis when you can build a nice solid tube frame to fit the 904 body exactly? Use the /6 running gear and other stuff to make a sweet car.

As for coming to your place and telling to your face I would, but I don't live near you. I would gladly talk to you on the phone about it. And for the record my name is on all my posts.

Garold Shaffer


How is that hard to understand, I don't want to sell it, but if someone really wanted it and had an interest in saving it I said I would entertain the offer. Never once have I tried to use the thread to sell the car. So how about this, no I don't want to sell it, trade it, anything, I want to get on with my project, if you want to follow the thread great, many do, if you don't agree with the build, tell it to the mountain.
Are you still confused Garold?


Nope

Posted by: euro911 Sep 1 2015, 08:36 PM

It doesn't appear that anybody is going to change Adam's mind, so it's probably just a waste of time even bothering with it.

This thread did, however, lead me to check out Chuck Beck's 904 site ... and oh, I would love to have one of his kits drooley.gif

The only issue I can see is that I would want a Subaru H6 drive train in it hide.gif ... (I already have enough valves to adjust as it is) shades.gif

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Sep 1 2015, 08:50 PM

Dear Admin,

Can we rename this thread to the "whine or go drive event" or something of the sort and start a new thread for those that are actually interested in the build.

Perhaps we could lock out all those that have contributed more than their 2 cents worth so we can actually follow the progress and not have to sort through 16
+ pages of crap.


Posted by: euro911 Sep 1 2015, 08:56 PM

It's only 11 pages of crap, Bruce poke.gif

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 1 2015, 09:13 PM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Sep 1 2015, 09:50 PM) *

Dear Admin,

Can we rename this thread to the "whine or go drive event" or something of the sort and start a new thread for those that are actually interested in the build.

Perhaps we could lock out all those that have contributed more than their 2 cents worth so we can actually follow the progress and not have to sort through 16
+ pages of crap.


Why is your opinion the only one that counts here? You can say what you want. I'm with those that are concerned for the historic value of the car that's about to be turned into a cheap kit car. Take a 15k car with historic value and history and turn it into a 5k plastic patch job. So some of us missed it. I'm sure if anyone had ever thought this is where the car's history would end it wouldn't be where it is.

First the cage won't fit so hack that off at the longs, then the width and length won't work so cut it up and weld it back together without the aid of a chassis jig. That's safe. Then cut out the suspension because that won't work. Where is all the "sorting" now. Wasted. screwy.gif

You think I don't know what I'm talking about just take another look at the last car Adam did. Engineering is not patching junk roller together, slathering it with filler, painting it with a roller, putting a cute name on it and calling it a car. This project is so far from proper engineering it's not even funny. If Dana were doing it may stand a chance of actually working. But then you would not need to start with a car of this caliber either.

Go ahead, hack it to pieces. When your done maybe someone with a real passion for 914's will be able to collect up the scrap pile and save what left like the 550... If you don't get what I'm saying go find a kit car sight where they build VW 40 Fords and Fiero F 40's. That will be cool.

Posted by: wingnut86 Sep 1 2015, 09:15 PM

...OR...

Attached Image

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 09:17 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 07:13 PM) *

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Sep 1 2015, 09:50 PM) *

Dear Admin,

Can we rename this thread to the "whine or go drive event" or something of the sort and start a new thread for those that are actually interested in the build.

Perhaps we could lock out all those that have contributed more than their 2 cents worth so we can actually follow the progress and not have to sort through 16
+ pages of crap.


Why is your opinion the only one that counts here? You can say what you want. I'm with those that are concerned for the historic value of the car that's about to be turned into a cheap kit car. Take a 15k car with historic value and history and turn it into a 5k plastic patch job. So some of us missed it. I'm sure if anyone had ever thought this is where the car's history would end it wouldn't be where it is.

First the cage won't fit so hack that off at the longs, then the width and length won't work so cut it up and weld it back together without the aid of a chassis jig. That's safe. Then cut out the suspension because that won't work. Where is all the "sorting" now. Wasted. screwy.gif

You think I don't know what I'm talking about just take another look at the last car Adam did. Engineering is not patching junk roller together, slathering it with filler, painting it with a roller, putting a cute name on it and calling it a car. This project is so far from proper engineering it's not even funny. If Dana were doing it may stand a chance of actually working. But then you would not need to start with a car of this caliber either.

Go ahead, hack it to pieces. When your done maybe someone with a real passion for 914's will be able to collect up the scrap pile and save what left like the 550... If you don't get what I'm saying go find a kit car sight where they build VW 40 Fords and Fiero F 40's. That will be cool.


Rick, you just don't get it....

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 1 2015, 09:27 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 10:17 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 07:13 PM) *

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Sep 1 2015, 09:50 PM) *

Dear Admin,

Can we rename this thread to the "whine or go drive event" or something of the sort and start a new thread for those that are actually interested in the build.

Perhaps we could lock out all those that have contributed more than their 2 cents worth so we can actually follow the progress and not have to sort through 16
+ pages of crap.


Why is your opinion the only one that counts here? You can say what you want. I'm with those that are concerned for the historic value of the car that's about to be turned into a cheap kit car. Take a 15k car with historic value and history and turn it into a 5k plastic patch job. So some of us missed it. I'm sure if anyone had ever thought this is where the car's history would end it wouldn't be where it is.

First the cage won't fit so hack that off at the longs, then the width and length won't work so cut it up and weld it back together without the aid of a chassis jig. That's safe. Then cut out the suspension because that won't work. Where is all the "sorting" now. Wasted. screwy.gif

You think I don't know what I'm talking about just take another look at the last car Adam did. Engineering is not patching junk roller together, slathering it with filler, painting it with a roller, putting a cute name on it and calling it a car. This project is so far from proper engineering it's not even funny. If Dana were doing it may stand a chance of actually working. But then you would not need to start with a car of this caliber either.

Go ahead, hack it to pieces. When your done maybe someone with a real passion for 914's will be able to collect up the scrap pile and save what left like the 550... If you don't get what I'm saying go find a kit car sight where they build VW 40 Fords and Fiero F 40's. That will be cool.


Rick, you just don't get it....


Ya, get what? I've seen your work, You've seen mine. Who has the most street cred?

You are not capable of doing anything with that car other than turn it into a pile of scrap. Specially when you say you don't have 30k to spend on it. How do you plan on making a proper chassis out of a car that you have to cut into quarters without spending serious cash on a proper chassis?

Prove me wrong. Hope you do. If you do at least the car would end up in your scrap yard never to be seen again.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 09:33 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 07:27 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 10:17 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 07:13 PM) *

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Sep 1 2015, 09:50 PM) *

Dear Admin,

Can we rename this thread to the "whine or go drive event" or something of the sort and start a new thread for those that are actually interested in the build.

Perhaps we could lock out all those that have contributed more than their 2 cents worth so we can actually follow the progress and not have to sort through 16
+ pages of crap.


Why is your opinion the only one that counts here? You can say what you want. I'm with those that are concerned for the historic value of the car that's about to be turned into a cheap kit car. Take a 15k car with historic value and history and turn it into a 5k plastic patch job. So some of us missed it. I'm sure if anyone had ever thought this is where the car's history would end it wouldn't be where it is.

First the cage won't fit so hack that off at the longs, then the width and length won't work so cut it up and weld it back together without the aid of a chassis jig. That's safe. Then cut out the suspension because that won't work. Where is all the "sorting" now. Wasted. screwy.gif

You think I don't know what I'm talking about just take another look at the last car Adam did. Engineering is not patching junk roller together, slathering it with filler, painting it with a roller, putting a cute name on it and calling it a car. This project is so far from proper engineering it's not even funny. If Dana were doing it may stand a chance of actually working. But then you would not need to start with a car of this caliber either.

Go ahead, hack it to pieces. When your done maybe someone with a real passion for 914's will be able to collect up the scrap pile and save what left like the 550... If you don't get what I'm saying go find a kit car sight where they build VW 40 Fords and Fiero F 40's. That will be cool.


Rick, you just don't get it....


Ya, get what? I've seen your work, You've seen mine. Who has the most street cred?

You are not capable of doing anything with that car other than turn it into a pile of scrap. Specially when you say you don't have 30k to spend on it. How do you plan on making a proper chassis out of a car that you have to cut into quarters without spending serious cash on a proper chassis?

Prove me wrong. Hope you do. If you do at least the car would end up in your scrap yard never to be seen again.


Rick-
I've never seen your work, nor do I care to. And how do you have any idea what I'm capable of. It's obvious your capable of being a jerk, but that's really all I know about you or your "cred". How does me sharing my project give you the right to try to dissect me? People wonder why it's the same 5 guys on these forums and why no one else ever shares or chimes in, it's because those 5 guys bury anything they don't understand or agree with under a pile of negative sarcasm. If you don't like the project, STOP READING THE THREAD!!!!!!!

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 1 2015, 09:44 PM

Didn't call you any names. Just pointed out the obvious. Maybe you should look up some of my work. Then maybe you would realize I'm not being a jerk and I actually know what I'm talking about. No need to name call Just stick to the facts.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Sep 1 2015, 09:50 PM

Sad where this thread has gone...

Someone needs to talk about Republican priests giving hand jobs to Democratic transvestites while reciting the Koran so this can get locked down... dry.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 09:53 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 07:44 PM) *

Didn't call you any names. Just pointed out the obvious. Maybe you should look up some of my work. Then maybe you would realize I'm not being a jerk and I actually know what I'm talking about. No need to name call Just stick to the facts.


No, you didn't call me any names, just ripped apart a car I spent 5 years working on, so yes, that makes you a jerk, and I don't care what you've done, I really don't.
I'm working on a car, if it doesn't work out that's my business, but I heard all the same things when I started work on the last car, and yet, that car got finished and sold.

Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 1 2015, 10:19 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 11:44 PM) *

Didn't call you any names. Just pointed out the obvious. Maybe you should look up some of my work. Then maybe you would realize I'm not being a jerk and I actually know what I'm talking about. No need to name call Just stick to the facts.


Rick's work...

Euro 928 powered 914. Probably one of the most engineered cars on this forum. Probably also, the most reliable since it's been driven to almost every corner of the US. I vouch for Rick's street creds.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 10:24 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Sep 1 2015, 08:19 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 11:44 PM) *

Didn't call you any names. Just pointed out the obvious. Maybe you should look up some of my work. Then maybe you would realize I'm not being a jerk and I actually know what I'm talking about. No need to name call Just stick to the facts.


Rick's work...

Euro 928 powered 914. Probably one of the most engineered cars on this forum. Probably also, the most reliable since it's been driven to almost every corner of the US. I vouch for Rick's street creds.


Yeah, I don't care, I didn't start this thread as a pissing contest with any one else or their builds. I don't know Rick and he damn sure doesn't know me, but proceeds to shred a car I built and belittle one I am building. So I don't care if he can put a flux capacaitor into a Deloran, he's still a jerk, how is that for a fact.

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 1 2015, 10:26 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 10:53 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 07:44 PM) *

Didn't call you any names. Just pointed out the obvious. Maybe you should look up some of my work. Then maybe you would realize I'm not being a jerk and I actually know what I'm talking about. No need to name call Just stick to the facts.


No, you didn't call me any names, just ripped apart a car I spent 5 years working on, so yes, that makes you a jerk, and I don't care what you've done, I really don't.
I'm working on a car, if it doesn't work out that's my business, but I heard all the same things when I started work on the last car, and yet, that car got finished and sold.


The work speaks for itself. One of the rules here is no name calling. No personal attacks. Ya, 5 years... av-943.gif to patch up a patch quilt of scraps. Guess we don't have to ever worry about you getting to cut this one up if it took that long with that end result. Feel sorry for the guy that bought it. Who was it that said there's one born every minute?

Do you know how many guys post here and show their projects? Every kind an level of skills. I can't say I have ever seen a car posted here that wasn't built with passion for the 914. Yours doesn't seem to be heading that way. You have no idea what we have done as a community for 914 people. Show some respect. Your not the great and powerful OZ here. Your just another car guy like the rest of us.

Like I said, Prove me wrong. If it turns out to be of a caliber that Porsche would have built himself as you claim that's your goal, I'm man enough to say I was wrong. Beyond that the history of a well know IMSA race car ends with you. You will be forever immortalized for that in books and magazines for years to come.




Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 1 2015, 10:28 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 2 2015, 12:24 AM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Sep 1 2015, 08:19 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 11:44 PM) *

Didn't call you any names. Just pointed out the obvious. Maybe you should look up some of my work. Then maybe you would realize I'm not being a jerk and I actually know what I'm talking about. No need to name call Just stick to the facts.


Rick's work...

Euro 928 powered 914. Probably one of the most engineered cars on this forum. Probably also, the most reliable since it's been driven to almost every corner of the US. I vouch for Rick's street creds.


Yeah, I don't care, I didn't start this thread as a pissing contest with any one else or their builds. I don't know Rick and he damn sure doesn't know me, but proceeds to shred a car I built and belittle one I am building. So I don't care if he can put a flux capacaitor into a Deloran, he's still a jerk, how is that for a fact.


And with that you crossed a line. Just like kindergarten, we don't allow name calling. That will get you banned. bye1.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 1 2015, 10:33 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 08:26 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 10:53 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 07:44 PM) *

Didn't call you any names. Just pointed out the obvious. Maybe you should look up some of my work. Then maybe you would realize I'm not being a jerk and I actually know what I'm talking about. No need to name call Just stick to the facts.


No, you didn't call me any names, just ripped apart a car I spent 5 years working on, so yes, that makes you a jerk, and I don't care what you've done, I really don't.
I'm working on a car, if it doesn't work out that's my business, but I heard all the same things when I started work on the last car, and yet, that car got finished and sold.


The work speaks for itself. One of the rules here is no name calling. No personal attacks. Ya, 5 years... av-943.gif to patch up a patch quilt of scraps. Guess we don't have to ever worry about you getting to cut this one up if it took that long with that end result. Feel sorry for the guy that bought it. Who was it that said there's one born every minute?

Do you know how many guys post here and show their projects? Every kind an level of skills. I can't say I have ever seen a car posted here that wasn't built with passion for the 914. Yours doesn't seem to be heading that way. You have no idea what we have done as a community for 914 people. Show some respect. Your not the great and powerful OZ here. Your just another car guy like the rest of us.

Like I said, Prove me wrong. If it turns out to be of a caliber that Porsche would have built himself as you claim that's your goal, I'm man enough to say I was wrong. Beyond that the history of a well know IMSA race car ends with you. You will be forever immortalized for that in books and magazines for years to come.

See again you come off like a jerk, you know why it too my 5 years to build that car, because I was working a 4 day week so I could take care of my two young kids. And I don't have to prove anything to you, now or ever. My reputation in the Porsche community speaks for itself.
Oh, and the guy who bought the last car loves it, he is already asked me about selling the 904/914 when I'm done with it.

Once again I say, you just don't get it, and every time you open your mouth you prove that.

Posted by: Cracker Sep 1 2015, 10:35 PM

Adam - Sorry this has gone this way but you have also fueled "their" fire.

Back on Page 5 (I think) I offered this, "Don't even pay a moments notice to the naysayers. I'd just start ignoring the ridiculous posts telling you what to do, what not to do and why. Enjoy whatever you do: the process, the designing, the details and the driving."

Others have offered the same advice but you have consistently tried to convince or rationalize your position - it is a losing battle, lost cause, never-gonna-win, etc., etc.

I've seen this before on this forum...a few just don't know when to quit and do get very personal in their positions (attacking judgement, skills, touting "their skills", whatever it takes to annoy and distract. This thread WAS about your excitement to build this car...maybe it was a poll but I don't believe so!

Consider listening to some counsel (and learn to ignore) or stop logging in here - save yourself brother! They'd eventually go away if they didn't get the gratification of your responses.

A forum of enthusiasts should (and usually does) operate under the idea that everyone should show respect - not beating ones chest about their abilities (over another) - true or not. Its highly immature behavior and sticking up for a poster like that is equally childish. Share their differences of opinion, sure, but then shut up...it gets old hearing the same antagonistic arguments. I'd expect a moderator would've stepped in along time ago to keep this thread on his topic - not theirs (unless of course they simply sympathize with the "voices of dissent" and choose when to "moderate" and not).

beerchug.gif

Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 1 2015, 10:44 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 2 2015, 12:26 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 1 2015, 10:53 PM) *

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 1 2015, 07:44 PM) *

Didn't call you any names. Just pointed out the obvious. Maybe you should look up some of my work. Then maybe you would realize I'm not being a jerk and I actually know what I'm talking about. No need to name call Just stick to the facts.


No, you didn't call me any names, just ripped apart a car I spent 5 years working on, so yes, that makes you a jerk, and I don't care what you've done, I really don't.
I'm working on a car, if it doesn't work out that's my business, but I heard all the same things when I started work on the last car, and yet, that car got finished and sold.


The work speaks for itself. One of the rules here is no name calling. No personal attacks. Ya, 5 years... av-943.gif to patch up a patch quilt of scraps. Guess we don't have to ever worry about you getting to cut this one up if it took that long with that end result. Feel sorry for the guy that bought it. Who was it that said there's one born every minute?

Do you know how many guys post here and show their projects? Every kind an level of skills. I can't say I have ever seen a car posted here that wasn't built with passion for the 914. Yours doesn't seem to be heading that way. You have no idea what we have done as a community for 914 people. Show some respect. Your not the great and powerful OZ here. Your just another car guy like the rest of us.

Like I said, Prove me wrong. If it turns out to be of a caliber that Porsche would have built himself as you claim that's your goal, I'm man enough to say I was wrong. Beyond that the history of a well know IMSA race car ends with you. You will be forever immortalized for that in books and magazines for years to come.


Actually, I noticed the editor of one of the best Porsche magazines reading this thread earlier today. A guy writing about IMSA history has posted in this thread. I think if you finish this car Adam, you will be forever known as the guy who used a historic IMSA race car to build a kit car. There's no way to get a stank like that off... You, or the car.
As for Rick's skills? Among the finest. No doubt. And if I asked him tomorrow to fly or drive across the country to help me finish my car, he'd try to make it happen. That is what he's made of. Lots of people here would.
You might want to look up the meaning of forum. It means *everyone* gets to express there opinion.

Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 1 2015, 10:46 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Sep 2 2015, 12:35 AM) *

Adam - Sorry this has gone this way but you have also fueled "their" fire.

Back on Page 5 (I think) I offered this, "Don't even pay a moments notice to the naysayers. I'd just start ignoring the ridiculous posts telling you what to do, what not to do and why. Enjoy whatever you do: the process, the designing, the details and the driving."

Others have offered the same advice but you have consistently tried to convince or rationalize your position - it is a losing battle, lost cause, never-gonna-win, etc., etc.

I've seen this before on this forum...a few die-hards just don't know when to quit. Then they attack you, your judgement, your skills, whatever. Then ask for it to be shut down - and they're the ones causing the ruckus (with your support, unfortunately).

Adam - Start listening to wise counsel (and learn to ignore) or stop logging in - save yourself brother! They'd go away eventually and if they didn't I'd expect a moderator to step in (that should have happened along time ago though - unless they sympathize with the "voices"). beerchug.gif


Actually, the moderators agree that he shouldn't touch that car. So yes, they sympathize.

Posted by: bandjoey Sep 1 2015, 10:53 PM

Look...President Husabaa just met his girlfriend behind the republican party stage and they got naked. Not only that but Reverend Putukie just admitted to being on the email list of Ashley Madison! And, Donald Trump is about to come out on abortion. happy11.gif
Pictures at 10.

Is that enough???

Now...will the admin lock this one down. and let Adam start a new unmolested thread.

We do want to see the build, and keep the politics out of it. If you'all Just spend 3 days reading his blogs on cars he's saved, and it's a no brainer...he's into saving cars. Just not always the way we we want.

Common guys..... barf.gif

Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 1 2015, 10:53 PM

The stank? Hahahahaha!!! Dude stop just stop!

No one cared about the car until now. I think only Adam did! So he bought it and when he couldn't sell it. He did what he wanted with it..........

Progress pics please!!!!

Posted by: RoadGlue Sep 1 2015, 11:07 PM

It's time for everyone to take a breather.

Locking this down for the night.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 2 2015, 05:34 PM

The 914 will be on display at the open house on Saturday Sept. 5th, if anyone wants to come check it out. Free food and probably a couple hundred Porsches will be about.


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Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 2 2015, 05:45 PM

You sure have some interesting stuff.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 2 2015, 06:03 PM

You should see the wall art!


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Posted by: AndyB Sep 3 2015, 08:08 PM

I believe it's your car so quit listening and arguing with others. Show us pictures and keep us updated.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 3 2015, 10:15 PM

QUOTE(AndyB @ Sep 3 2015, 06:08 PM) *

I believe it's your car so quit listening and arguing with others. Show us pictures and keep us updated.


That's the plan moving forward. I'm going to politely ask that anyone who doesn't like what I'm doing to follow the rules we all learned in 1st grade.

1. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
2. If you don't like what I'm building then please get out of my sandbox.

I think I took the bait too many times with people attacking my build, I'm henceforth going to ignore them but hopefully they will follow the rules above and those of us who like my idea will follow and add suggestions. I don't have much experience with 914's since we deal mostly with 356's, so I'm hoping the group can tell me the little details when I need the info.

And thanks for the many who have supported the build, I really appreciate it.

Posted by: 914Timo Sep 4 2015, 04:14 PM

...

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 4 2015, 07:21 PM

If you want to see the IMSA car kept original, and can provide parts, labor or transportation towards a replacement chassis, PM me.

Otherwise it's time to let Adam have his build thread back. beerchug.gif


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 7 2015, 05:08 PM

I want to take the talk of my car away from the IMSA thread.
To answer the last question about what I knew about the car.

The car was advertised as a former race car, but the only history the guy shared was that "it won some races" and he had a picture of the dash which showed it was a winner at Mid-Ohio and the SCCA Ozark Region, but even in my phone conversations he did not have any real info on the car, other then who he got it from. The car fit the bill as far as what I needed for my project, so I bought it. Once I bought it I contacted Jeff at Automotive Archelogy and he was able to give me the complete race history from when they ran it, but no mention of IMSA or Garretson. Only once I posted the car here did I have that information.

I hope this helps everyone understand a little better how this went down.
Here is the dash picture.


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Posted by: euro911 Sep 7 2015, 05:40 PM

It's your car, Adam, so I wouldn't even suggest what you should or shouldn't do with it.


But being an old man, not necessarily a wise old man, I will share this though ... I bought an old 911 back in the late 70's - picked it up for a song too (even by the monetary standards of that time). I had plans to update several things on it and basically hot-rod it, but career and family life got in the way.

As years went by, I started learning more about the car, and evidently, so did the Porsche community. I'm glad those years got in the way and I didn't go through with my original plans, as the car turned out to be one of the first 232 911s to come out of the factory's doors. For many years, it was just considered an old car with a declining monetary value confused24.gif

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 7 2015, 10:10 PM

Cool project idea. There aren't many people who don't like the way 904s look, and there aren't many people who don't like the way 914s drive.

As for the drama, it's easy to see both sides:

Side 1
The car was bought based on available information, and bought well. It appeared to be a good and financially attractive basis as a six-cylinder 914—without the premium for a nice body or interior. Perfect for the project, in other words.

Side 2
The car is a piece of 914 history. It inspired models—models people have kept, models that offered for sale at collectible gatherings. The chassis has a LOT of its original pieces (cage, mirror, etc.). The original body still exists, and looks repairable.


It is unfortunate to see insults, personal attacks, and angry expletives on this forum. One can only assume we're seeing them because folks are passionate about this car, and because the targets feel attacked/belittled. However, it is difficult to see why the owner should allow his dream to be delayed or derailed to satisfy others. While that might be a reasonable wish, it is not a reasonable expectation.

Is a win-win possible? In exchange for the IMSA chassis, could a 914world member or members ship a GOOD, solid 914 chassis ready to accept the OP's power train (six mount, etc) and ready to be modified to accept the 904 body? Would the OP accept that, if it can be delivered during the time he is working out how to modify a 914 chassis to work under that 904 body using the "practice" car no one cares about? The OP keeps his powertrain and other desired mechanicals he got for a song (and understandably wants to keep) and gets a good body to plug them into and modify. The IMSA chassis could then be saved, repainted red, and reunited with its old body.

I've seen this board do more than that for members in the past, and this would be a chance for everyone to come out happy.

Jussayin...

Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 7 2015, 10:28 PM

I have been in PM contact with Adam and I have to say, I see his side. He bought a car that he thought no one wanted for $15K. Then after posting here, he discovers it is a former IMSA racer with wins. He'd like to have a good substitute for his chassis but lots of people are expecting him to just give it up for what he has in it. He should be able to get a suitable replacement if he is going to give up on the accidental IMSA racer purchase.
So what needs to happen to make everyone happy and Adam whole is there needs to be a buyer for the IMSA car at a fair market price and, Adam needs a good conversion chassis at a fair market price. I don't know Adam's finances so let's assume he can't buy the second while holding the first. Therefore, these two events need to happen pretty much simultaneously.
I believe Adam would go for this. But I also believe that he sees it as somewhat hopeless because no one wanted the IMSA car in all the years it was for sale.
What to do? Anyone know anyone interested in vintage racing with a real IMSA racer? Guys like Canepa and Adam Carolla do this a lot. Buy, restore, race. (Carolla is out, he is only interested in Datsuns for now)

Posted by: oldschool Sep 7 2015, 11:26 PM

QUOTE(scotty b @ Aug 24 2015, 03:04 PM) *

And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other.



Bring forth said car, for I owneth thy cutter of plasma-eth


Ha Ha you just lost....

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 8 2015, 05:27 AM

I have received several pm's about this car. The consensus has been the car somehow slipped past us a community. I as others weren't shopping for this car or any car for that matter. Many of us have several now. Should this have been noticed by 914 guys that have a historic knowledge of IMSA it would not be facing it's current fate.

That said no deal can even be struck until Adam states the terms. We have achieved bigger things here than saving a car.

I am now just repeating the same stuff that has been posted here already. I believe Adam WAS offered another chassis wasn't he? Wasn't it a race car chassis? What does it take from there? Do we need to throw some money at it?
A mechanic that can remove and swap the engine and transaxle?
What is this "sorting" that needs to be addressed?
Do we fly out a group of guys to swap out the parts? We've done that before.

All questions that have been asked for half this thread. I've said my peace. Let me know if you guy's work something out. I don't mind helping out if I am able. Ball is in Adam's court.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 8 2015, 06:51 AM

Terms have been sent to first interested party. If he declines I will offer same terms to the group. I would love to see this chassis saved.

Based on the historical value of the car and the interest in it, I believe my terms are more than fair.

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 8 2015, 08:38 AM

There you go. Win-win for everybody. Time for the guys with the dough to step up. Or shut up.

Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 8 2015, 09:20 AM

There is a negotiation going on in the background guys. Be patient. evilgrin.gif

Posted by: stownsen914 Sep 8 2015, 11:57 AM

Well done, gentlemen. Hopefully something can be worked out so all are satisfied ...

Posted by: Chris Pincetich Sep 8 2015, 04:01 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 8 2015, 05:51 AM) *

I would love to see this chassis saved.

cheer.gif aktion035.gif smilie_pokal.gif
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Posted by: wndsnd Sep 8 2015, 04:19 PM

Excellent news!

Posted by: gms Sep 8 2015, 05:23 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 8 2015, 07:51 AM) *

Terms have been sent to first interested party. If he declines I will offer same terms to the group. I would love to see this chassis saved.

Based on the historical value of the car and the interest in it, I believe my terms are more than fair.

Adam I commend you for your open minded approach to this!

Posted by: RoadGlue Sep 8 2015, 05:24 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Sep 8 2015, 04:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 8 2015, 07:51 AM) *

Terms have been sent to first interested party. If he declines I will offer same terms to the group. I would love to see this chassis saved.

Based on the historical value of the car and the interest in it, I believe my terms are more than fair.

Adam I commend you for your open minded approach to this!


Ditto!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 8 2015, 05:30 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Sep 8 2015, 03:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 8 2015, 07:51 AM) *

Terms have been sent to first interested party. If he declines I will offer same terms to the group. I would love to see this chassis saved.

Based on the historical value of the car and the interest in it, I believe my terms are more than fair.

Adam I commend you for your open minded approach to this!


I am hoping this chassis can go on to greater glory, it was just an old worn out race car when I bought it and there are plenty of those.

Posted by: r_towle Sep 8 2015, 06:38 PM

Bring your trailer dude, the barn is full of stuff.
Call you know who about the rare stuff.

There is a 914 chassis in the back, and more air cooled
Rich

Posted by: r_towle Sep 8 2015, 06:39 PM

Also, I sold a race car chassis to Lenny and I think Eric's chassis is still in the back at foley said place....so there are two caged tubs local.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 8 2015, 06:46 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 8 2015, 04:39 PM) *

Also, I sold a race car chassis to Lenny and I think Eric's chassis is still in the back at foley said place....so there are two caged tubs local.


I'm headed out tomorrow a long long way away, a 29 car deal, all 356's, I'll hit you up when I get back.

Posted by: r_towle Sep 8 2015, 08:44 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 8 2015, 08:46 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 8 2015, 04:39 PM) *

Also, I sold a race car chassis to Lenny and I think Eric's chassis is still in the back at foley said place....so there are two caged tubs local.


I'm headed out tomorrow a long long way away, a 29 car deal, all 356's, I'll hit you up when I get back.

Big trailer....

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 8 2015, 08:54 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 8 2015, 06:44 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 8 2015, 08:46 PM) *

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 8 2015, 04:39 PM) *

Also, I sold a race car chassis to Lenny and I think Eric's chassis is still in the back at foley said place....so there are two caged tubs local.


I'm headed out tomorrow a long long way away, a 29 car deal, all 356's, I'll hit you up when I get back.

Big trailer....


This was two months ago, 21 cars, now it's party time!



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Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 8 2015, 08:56 PM

only 29??? confused24.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 11 2015, 07:19 PM

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:56 PM) *

only 29??? confused24.gif

1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...


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Posted by: MMW Sep 11 2015, 07:29 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:56 PM) *

only 29??? confused24.gif

1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...


I thought Big John just pushed them on. Isn't he the one who does all the heavy lifting?

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 11 2015, 07:33 PM

Good lord, where do you find all these stashes?

Always wish my 356 was a cab and/of I had a 911 to make he collection complete. All I need is $ sad.gif

Do you mind if I OM you for parts needs?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 11 2015, 07:52 PM

QUOTE(MMW @ Sep 11 2015, 05:29 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:56 PM) *

only 29??? confused24.gif

1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...


I thought Big John just pushed them on. Isn't he the one who does all the heavy lifting?


I would never attempt to lift a 911 motor, or carry a gearbox on my shoulder...



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Posted by: wingnut86 Sep 11 2015, 09:46 PM

I can do a -4 still & did a gear box or 2 last weekend. And, I'm 54!

But a -6??

You have great liability coverage, don't ya;-)

Posted by: euro911 Sep 11 2015, 11:14 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 06:19 PM) *
1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...
Nice score. Looks like a couple of notchbacks in the last load confused24.gif

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What condition are they in?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 12 2015, 05:31 AM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Sep 11 2015, 09:14 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 06:19 PM) *
1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...
Nice score. Looks like a couple of notchbacks in the last load confused24.gif

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What condition are they in?

No notches with this load, the one on the bottom middle is a C cab, and the one on the back is an A cab.

Posted by: r_towle Sep 12 2015, 12:03 PM

If you ever come across a speedster KIT car project, please keep me in mind.
I specifically want a kit.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 12 2015, 03:33 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 12 2015, 10:03 AM) *

If you ever come across a speedster KIT car project, please keep me in mind.
I specifically want a kit.

Do you want just the body, or a complete kit?

Posted by: r_towle Sep 12 2015, 05:18 PM

I can get the body from rusty tubs......interested in both....but not new, some non wide body forgotten project.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 12 2015, 05:36 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 12 2015, 03:18 PM) *

I can get the body from rusty tubs......interested in both....but not new, some non wide body forgotten project.

Big Nickles Rickles, ask me sometime how he got the nickname.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 12 2015, 06:41 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:56 PM) *

only 29??? confused24.gif

1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...


Wow ! 24 rolls of toilet tissue at Shop Rite $5.99
I'm channeling Shop Rite

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 14 2015, 05:20 AM

The trip only went downhill from there. A friend in PA called and wanted to quickly sell his 82 SC, so I had to squeeze it on the back of the already loaded trailer, it was so overloaded I had to go 50mph the whole way home, it was hard on the nerves.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 14 2015, 06:04 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:52 PM) *

QUOTE(MMW @ Sep 11 2015, 05:29 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:56 PM) *

only 29??? confused24.gif

1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...


I thought Big John just pushed them on. Isn't he the one who does all the heavy lifting?


I would never attempt to lift a 911 motor, or carry a gearbox on my shoulder...
IPB Image


The engine looks like it's empty, no crank, chains, etc., so although it's still heavy it wouldn't be near as heavy as it looks.
It looks like a dummy engine for fitting body, engine panels, and fabrication.

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 14 2015, 07:12 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 14 2015, 06:20 AM) *

The trip only went downhill from there. A friend in PA called and wanted to quickly sell his 82 SC, so I had to squeeze it on the back of the already loaded trailer, it was so overloaded I had to go 50mph the whole way home, it was hard on the nerves.



That's what you call the tail waggin the dog! laugh.gif

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 14 2015, 08:31 AM

The front of the trailer must have been heavy! to load the SC on there not backwards.

Nice looking SC BTW...would be a nice 1/2 power companion to my brother's 930.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 14 2015, 03:17 PM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Sep 14 2015, 04:04 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:52 PM) *

QUOTE(MMW @ Sep 11 2015, 05:29 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:56 PM) *

only 29??? confused24.gif

1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...


I thought Big John just pushed them on. Isn't he the one who does all the heavy lifting?


I would never attempt to lift a 911 motor, or carry a gearbox on my shoulder...
IPB Image


The engine looks like it's empty, no crank, chains, etc., so although it's still heavy it wouldn't be near as heavy as it looks.
It looks like a dummy engine for fitting body, engine panels, and fabrication.


Mark,
Good eye, it was a mock-up motor for fitting a six into a Beck 550.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 14 2015, 03:18 PM

QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Sep 14 2015, 06:31 AM) *

The front of the trailer must have been heavy! to load the SC on there not backwards.

Nice looking SC BTW...would be a nice 1/2 power companion to my brother's 930.

We packed the front of the trailer very tight with parts, and since we had to drive the car on, it could only go on one way safely.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 14 2015, 03:18 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 14 2015, 05:12 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 14 2015, 06:20 AM) *

The trip only went downhill from there. A friend in PA called and wanted to quickly sell his 82 SC, so I had to squeeze it on the back of the already loaded trailer, it was so overloaded I had to go 50mph the whole way home, it was hard on the nerves.



That's what you call the tail waggin the dog! laugh.gif

Rick-
That's a great way to phrase what was happening, it made for some slow going, but we got home ok, just tired.

Posted by: euro911 Sep 14 2015, 03:56 PM

I bought a SMITHY years ago and they could only fork it into my trailer a few feet due to the ramp. Most of the weight was aft of the axle and I couldn't drive over 45mph on the freeway (50 miles home) due it wanting to fish-tail dry.gif

Posted by: mepstein Sep 14 2015, 04:01 PM

next time backing the 911 in might help a little bit.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 14 2015, 06:20 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 14 2015, 02:01 PM) *

next time backing the 911 in might help a little bit.


M-
Had I been using my car hauler trailer I would have done that, but I was using my cargo trailer and it is much narrower, so driving backward up the ramp would have been asking for trouble, I already had to shimmy out the window, since I couldn't open the door. Like I said, last minute, not planned, and a nightmare, but it's all home, though the yard is a little full.



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 14 2015, 06:21 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 14 2015, 04:20 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 14 2015, 02:01 PM) *

next time backing the 911 in might help a little bit.


M-
Had I been using my car hauler trailer I would have done that, but I was using my cargo trailer and it is much narrower, so driving backward up the ramp would have been asking for trouble, I already had to shimmy out the window, since I couldn't open the door. Like I said, last minute, not planned, and a nightmare, but it's all home, though the yard is a little full.


One more.


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Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 14 2015, 09:09 PM

Are the Karmann notchback coupes worth anything now? There was a good while when they were looked down upon, and valued less than their standard coupe siblings.

--DD

Posted by: wingnut86 Sep 14 2015, 09:20 PM

...well, it ain't the 914 graveyard in Atlanta, but it'll do beer.gif

Wahahahahaha!

first.gif

Posted by: zambezi Sep 14 2015, 09:22 PM

The notchbacks still kind of are (looked down upon), but the rising tide has meant ALL 356's are worthy of saving.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 14 2015, 09:59 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Sep 14 2015, 07:09 PM) *

Are the Karmann notchback coupes worth anything now? There was a good while when they were looked down upon, and valued less than their standard coupe siblings.

--DD

The notch has a strong cult following, but then so does the 76 912E. But I don't believe they will ever be worth more than the standard coupe. People love to revel in the limited production of them, but forget that they didn't sell a lot for the same reason they didn't sell a lot of new Coke, it's because no one liked it when it came out, and it isn't a universal taste now.
I sold over a dozen Notch's over the years, but at least half of them went to guys who wanted a backdoor cheap cabriolet. Only a few have sought out the Notch for it's peculiar roof line, most people still think the same as when they were new, it's awkward at best and ugly at worst. I like them, but wouldn't pay more than a regular coupe for one.

Posted by: euro911 Sep 15 2015, 12:37 AM

I like them, because I'll never be able to have one of these

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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 18 2015, 08:31 PM

I had a rare opportunity to study and photograph a very early 904 yesterday, 904-0014. A friend was very kind and let me crawl all around the car he has had for over 40 years. He was also a wealth of info on the cars since when he bought his car it was in a million pieces, so he knows every inch of it after 40 years of assembly.
It was cool and also once again surprising how small they really are!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 9 2015, 03:51 PM

I have has 0 time to work on the car for the last few weeks. Trying to get as many cars out the door before the snow hits I guess. I did score an important piece yesterday though, a rear clip from a SAAB Sonett. Why a Sonett clip? Because Porsche used SAAB tail lights for the 904. The guy made me take the whole clip. I was on my way to Delaware yesterday and grabbed this in Jersey.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 17 2015, 06:13 PM

A couple of guys have emailed me privately so ask about progress on the car. I've been stalled for the last 6-7 weeks trying to get as many cars on the market before the holidays hit. We put our last car of the year on ebay today so the project will continue in the coming weeks.
This picture was interesting, both were built in 1963, so different yet so the same.


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Posted by: 904svo Nov 17 2015, 08:00 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 18 2015, 06:31 PM) *

I had a rare opportunity to study and photograph a very early 904 yesterday, 904-0014. A friend was very kind and let me crawl all around the car he has had for over 40 years. He was also a wealth of info on the cars since when he bought his car it was in a million pieces, so he knows every inch of it after 40 years of assembly.
It was cool and also once again surprising how small they really are!


I remember when Tim got that car in pieces. I love it! that's why I bought a
904 kit car.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 17 2015, 08:03 PM

QUOTE(904svo @ Nov 17 2015, 06:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 18 2015, 06:31 PM) *

I had a rare opportunity to study and photograph a very early 904 yesterday, 904-0014. A friend was very kind and let me crawl all around the car he has had for over 40 years. He was also a wealth of info on the cars since when he bought his car it was in a million pieces, so he knows every inch of it after 40 years of assembly.
It was cool and also once again surprising how small they really are!


I remember when Tim got that car in pieces. I love it! that's why I bought a
904 kit car.


And he paid $10,000 for it, best investment ever!!!!!!!!

Posted by: veekry9 Dec 16 2015, 03:50 AM

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https://www.facebook.com/EmoryMotorsports?fref=photo
A perfect wheel for the 904/14-6

Posted by: Mueller Dec 16 2015, 02:33 PM

QUOTE(veekry9 @ Dec 16 2015, 01:50 AM) *
Cool wheel...


No price, guessing if you have to ask how much I cannot afford them!

Posted by: MJHanna Dec 16 2015, 02:46 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Dec 16 2015, 02:33 PM) *
QUOTE(veekry9 @ Dec 16 2015, 01:50 AM) *

Cool wheel...

No price, guessing if you have to ask how much I cannot afford them!

Looks like the alum spare wheel from a 944 turbo

Posted by: JmuRiz Dec 16 2015, 03:23 PM

Reminds me of the CLK wheel, Scotty knows about these and I used to have as set for the vintage Benz:
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Posted by: euro911 Dec 16 2015, 05:04 PM

I have a set of those 1999 CLK wheels for the Vanagon biggrin.gif

They're 16x7" and the bolt pattern is 5x112mm.

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Posted by: veekry9 Dec 16 2015, 06:42 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Dec 16 2015, 03:33 PM) *

QUOTE(veekry9 @ Dec 16 2015, 01:50 AM) *
Perfect wheel...


No price, guessing if you have to ask how much I cannot afford them!

Four or more will be made,so yeah,tre expensive.Perfect tho,with nine holes.
I posted Toolguy's Ghia they did and liked it,so went back and found a lot of great -8 refs.
Man,they're havin a blast,what with the dyno runs.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=222522&st=20
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=222522&st=120

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 17 2015, 09:35 PM

Ok, this question goes out to you heavy mod guys. One of my first engineering problems is I need to lower or eliminate the front shock towers. Has anyone adapted a side mount suspension? Or lowered the shock towers with a shorter strut?

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 17 2015, 10:12 PM

I think Britain did a front suspension without the shock towers on the yellow race car ...
idea.gif

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 17 2015, 10:16 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Dec 17 2015, 08:12 PM) *
I think Britain did a front suspension without the shock towers on the yellow race car ...
idea.gif

Front suspension stuff starts on page 16.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=113579

smash.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 18 2015, 02:24 PM

Cool, thanks, I'll check it out.

Posted by: veekry9 Dec 18 2015, 05:18 PM

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An upper control arm,pretty much necessary,the fender line so low.

Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 18 2015, 05:42 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Dec 17 2015, 09:16 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Dec 17 2015, 08:12 PM) *
I think Britain did a front suspension without the shock towers on the yellow race car ...
idea.gif

Front suspension stuff starts on page 16.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=113579

smash.gif

Doesn't the Anklebiter have a transverse front suspension too?
Or you could go the Corvette C5 route with upper and lower control arms and a transverse leaf spring on the upper arm and standard shocks measured for travel...

Posted by: veekry9 Dec 18 2015, 05:49 PM

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An emulation of the 914 chassis trimmed,sectioned,stiffened,caged.
A scale model of a tub in CF sandwich panels,verr light,stiff.
Outrigger ally monocoque torque boxes front and rear.
Tough to get it lighter than the genuine article.
Flogging the ideas around,open minded approach.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 18 2015, 06:00 PM

A lot of what I'm finding on the market is after market VW stuff, but mostly for sandrails and such, not sure it's the ride I'm looking for.

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 19 2015, 01:37 PM

http://www.coolrydescustoms.com/store/c2/MENDEOLA_SUSPENSION.html

Posted by: Mueller Dec 19 2015, 07:53 PM

...

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 19 2015, 08:27 PM

I think before I chop in a pricey complete front setup I'll try to shorten the strut and lower the strut tower, if that doesn't work I'll go in the Mendeola direction.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 2 2016, 12:33 PM

Ok, so we finally got out from the pile of cars and parts we buried ourselves in since the summer. Next time when someone asks if I want to do a 50 car Porsche deal, I won't be as enthusiastic!
Back to the grind on the 904 project, literally, grinding and cutting the skin off the test bed car, the doomed 914 center seater. Well, as excited as I was to get back into the project, it was a classic case of two steps forward, one step back. I worked on the chassis most of Thursday and had planned to go into the shop on Friday and have a whole day of Porsche bliss. Since it was a holiday my phone would not be ringing so I could just fire up the pellet stove, turn on some music and get to work. Except, while grinding on Thursday a little piece of metal got past my safety glasses so by the evening my eye was swelling pretty good and by bedtime it felt like pins were in my eye when I tried to close it. Ever try to sleep without closing one eye?
So Friday morning I went to a Doc-In-The-Box and after looking at my eye they sent me to the ER, so the day I was supposed to be in Porsche Project Heaven I was actually in ER Hell. Luckily the 3rd DR to try was able to get the chunk of Porsche out of my eyeball and it quickly starting feeling better. I still have to see a 4th DR on Monday to deal with the rust ring the metal made in my eye. Yes, in case you were wondering, Porsche rust never sleeps, even in your eyeball!
So Saturday the kids had art camp so I went to the shop and got slicing and dicing, the 914 now looks more like a Kubelwagon than a 914. Now that winter has officially hit NY, look for more updates in the coming weeks.
Oh, and don't grind in just safety glasses, I ignored my own advice and the ER visit was the result, wear a full face shield.
Happy New Year-
Adam



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Posted by: SirAndy Jan 2 2016, 12:51 PM

I hate to say this at this point of the project, but that chassis looks like a perfect candidate for a Kübelwagen or Schwimmwagen!
biggrin.gif

PS: Also, i second the safety glass recommendation. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again. I now always use those that are like goggles and go all around the sides.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 2 2016, 01:31 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 2 2016, 10:51 AM) *

I hate to say this at this point of the project, but that chassis looks like a perfect candidate for a Kübelwagen or Schwimmwagen!
biggrin.gif

PS: Also, i second the safety glass recommendation. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again. I now always use those that are like goggles and go all around the sides.


A mid-engine Kubel would be very very cool.

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Jan 2 2016, 02:11 PM

can you post a picture of how they did the steering column move & pedal cluster? NOT that I want to build a center seat 914, just wondering how they did it.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 2 2016, 02:17 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Jan 2 2016, 12:11 PM) *

can you post a picture of how they did the steering column move & pedal cluster? NOT that I want to build a center seat 914, just wondering how they did it.

I will be back at the shop on Monday and can take some pics. For the column the guy built some crude brackets. The pedals he put on either side of the center tunnel, the shifter he left in the middle, so had someone raced the car they would have hard in between their legs the whole race, that would have been funny to watch!

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 2 2016, 02:27 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 17 2015, 10:35 PM) *

Ok, this question goes out to you heavy mod guys. One of my first engineering problems is I need to lower or eliminate the front shock towers. Has anyone adapted a side mount suspension? Or lowered the shock towers with a shorter strut?


Knew you would run into that one, but you were already well into the project.
I had a RSK kit car here, the owner wanted to use a 914 chassis as well, a quick look told me front struts would be an issue.

I would go about it by abandoning the 914 struts and building a custom A-arm assembly along the lines of what the VW guys do.
In fact, IIRC you can buy the A-arm assembly already built over on thesamba.
At least I know you can buy it for a sand buggy, I know I did see someone do it for a lowered street bug just like below.

IPB Image



The RSK?
One off I think someone in Ontario, Canada made the body.
It made the rounds of all the local shops around here, no one gave him the right price. I already knew one shop made the mistake of wasting a couple weeks preparing a proper quote and then he bailed.
One look, chassis junk and real rough FG work, I told him my quote would be north of $50k. It's was gone from my shop within 2 days.
Last I saw it was up For Sale on Kijiji.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 2 2016, 06:41 PM

Mark-
I have a couple of ideas to try with the existing struts before I put in a Dual A-Arm system.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 2 2016, 06:56 PM

One of our sometime members, Britain Smith, made a rocker-arm suspension for his 914 autoXer. Or used-to-be-a-914-but-is-now-mostly-tubes-and-fiberglass autoXer.

--DD

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 2 2016, 07:03 PM

Dave-
I think he used Lotus stuff, right?

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 2 2016, 07:16 PM

I've had the same thoughts over the years, using the teener chassis for a 550 project . . .

It's been a long time since I've given this much thought, but as I recall the strut holds the gas shock in the tube with a big nut that screws inside the top of the stut tube. What if you used a shorter shock and just shorten the strut tube to the appropriate length.

Shortening the towers to the right height could be welded in place using the old towers as a jig . . . sawzall-smiley.gif

Big talk for a dreamer huh . . .

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 2 2016, 07:46 PM

I'm using part of a 914 for my 550 project. I'm going to use the motor and rear end, but graft it into a 356 chassis. I have a solid C chassis that was a rollover, so perfect for this. Just waiting on the body to get finished.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 2 2016, 08:28 PM

Sorry brainfart....the kit car I was talking about was a RSK, no where near as pretty as this one, but this is it.
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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 3 2016, 08:57 AM

If anyone wants one of these I have a guy who wants to practically give one away. I found it in middle FL.
I wanted the stablemate.



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 3 2016, 09:00 AM

The stablemate.


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 3 2016, 09:14 AM

What chassis under the 962 body ?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 3 2016, 10:49 AM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jan 3 2016, 07:14 AM) *

What chassis under the 962 body ?

Cigar boxes me thinks.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 3 2016, 11:58 AM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 2 2016, 10:51 AM) *

I hate to say this at this point of the project, but that chassis looks like a perfect candidate for a Kübelwagen or Schwimmwagen!
biggrin.gif

PS: Also, i second the safety glass recommendation. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again. I now always use those that are like goggles and go all around the sides.


After looking at the last pic, I was thinking wouldn't it be cool to extend the rear out like a truckbed. Not going to do it but it would be fun, a Kubel-truck.

Posted by: KELTY360 Jan 3 2016, 12:19 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 3 2016, 09:58 AM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 2 2016, 10:51 AM) *

I hate to say this at this point of the project, but that chassis looks like a perfect candidate for a Kübelwagen or Schwimmwagen!
biggrin.gif

PS: Also, i second the safety glass recommendation. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again. I now always use those that are like goggles and go all around the sides.


After looking at the last pic, I was thinking wouldn't it be cool to extend the rear out like a truckbed. Not going to do it but it would be fun, a Kubel-truck.


Isn't that kind of how the VW bus was born?

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 3 2016, 01:32 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Jan 3 2016, 01:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 3 2016, 09:58 AM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Jan 2 2016, 10:51 AM) *

I hate to say this at this point of the project, but that chassis looks like a perfect candidate for a Kübelwagen or Schwimmwagen!
biggrin.gif

PS: Also, i second the safety glass recommendation. Been there, done that, don't want to do it again. I now always use those that are like goggles and go all around the sides.


After looking at the last pic, I was thinking wouldn't it be cool to extend the rear out like a truckbed. Not going to do it but it would be fun, a Kubel-truck.


Isn't that kind of how the VW bus was born?


Sort of...they had a VW bug truck for the factory floor, one dealer named Ben Pon saw it and thought it would be cool. He made a quick drawing of his bus idea, but it was a year or more before the project resurfaced. The VW pan was too weak so the prototype was a one off coach build, with a VW engine, trans and T81 Kubelwagen reduction boxes. The rest is similar to the bug but heavier front end and brakes. One interesting fact is it has the same wheelbase as a VW bug.
That's the quick version, but it's fitting because the time between starting the prototype and production was something ridiculous like only a few months.

The hippy's in the bus crowd credit Ben Pon as the creator of the bus.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 3 2016, 01:41 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 3 2016, 09:57 AM) *

If anyone wants one of these I have a guy who wants to practically give one away. I found it in middle FL.
I wanted the stablemate.

That RSK kit is like the one making the rounds up here, but it has a way better gelcoat.
I don't think anyone realizes how small these things are till you see one in person. I was parked beside a spyder kit car at a local show here, they are only half as tall as a 914.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 3 2016, 04:08 PM

QUOTE
That RSK kit is like the one making the rounds up here, but it has a way better gelcoat.
I don't think anyone realizes how small these things are till you see one in person. I was parked beside a spyder kit car at a local show here, they are only half as tall as a 914.


Just like the 904, they are tiny in real life. I'm glad I'm not a big guy, it took some real twisting to get in and out of 0014, and I'm only 5'9".


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Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 3 2016, 10:20 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 2 2016, 05:03 PM) *
I think he used Lotus stuff, right?


Yes. Uprights at the very least; I think he cut the wrecked car down to make a front subframe? There is a build thread around here somewhere.

--DD

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 3 2016, 11:36 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jan 3 2016, 08:20 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 2 2016, 05:03 PM) *
I think he used Lotus stuff, right?


Yes. Uprights at the very least; I think he cut the wrecked car down to make a front subframe? There is a build thread around here somewhere.

--DD

Before I do anything drastic I'm going to try to lower the towers. I can't hurt the test car, so I might as well try it.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 4 2016, 09:37 AM

He's another A-arm, expensive, but if you are a super pro fab guy and know how to jig you could DIY.
I can see it uses standard aircooled VW late bug spindles (pretty sure lowered) and ball joints.

http://www.red9design.co.uk/wishbones.htm

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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 4 2016, 05:41 PM

I was making really good progress today until I had to go and see the eye DR to do the final scrapping of rust out of my eye. But the rear end is really starting to look like it belongs. More updates tomorrow, it's in the single digits outside so lots of time to work in the warm shop, winter is here!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 5 2016, 03:05 PM

Got it within about 1.5 inches of where I want the rear end today. Tomorrow I will play with lowering the rear shock towers, that should buy me the space I need for a perfect fit. The headaches are getting bigger, but so if the fun!
Starting to look like a car.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 6 2016, 05:55 PM

Today was eventful, got the rear end where I wanted it. Getting it there wasn't easy, we had to drill out all the spot welds on the rear shock towers. When we build the real chassis we will lower the shock towers. In fact, I will probably re-use the ones I pulled off the test car because the race cars ones have been modified for the roll cage. But the rear end is now in the right range of where it needs to be, a good dry fit.
Then we moved onto the main body and our heads really started to hurt. Lots of measuring and staring, and drawing, and re-measuring, but we will do the main body cut tomorrow, right behind the floor center cross member.
Lots of dramatic moves on the body, and cutting is always fun, but we are now getting into the more serious cuts and lots of math.
Stay tuned!


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Posted by: 904svo Jan 6 2016, 08:29 PM

Here's how I attach my rear lid to open like a 904.

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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 7 2016, 05:27 PM

SVO, thanks for the pics!

Today was both dramatic and eventful. After what seemed like a million cuts we got the car into two pieces, and then made it back into one, losing 5 inches in the process. From there we were able to get the main part of the body in place, so you can start to see the 904 emerging. It's getting fun!


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Posted by: SirAndy Jan 7 2016, 05:37 PM

smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: MikeSpraggi Jan 8 2016, 12:34 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 18 2015, 07:31 PM) *

I had a rare opportunity to study and photograph a very early 904 yesterday, 904-0014. A friend was very kind and let me crawl all around the car he has had for over 40 years. He was also a wealth of info on the cars since when he bought his car it was in a million pieces, so he knows every inch of it after 40 years of assembly.
It was cool and also once again surprising how small they really are!


Yea, I know that car too. Takes your breath away in person....sigh.....

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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 8 2016, 08:26 AM

QUOTE(MikeSpraggi @ Jan 7 2016, 10:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 18 2015, 07:31 PM) *

I had a rare opportunity to study and photograph a very early 904 yesterday, 904-0014. A friend was very kind and let me crawl all around the car he has had for over 40 years. He was also a wealth of info on the cars since when he bought his car it was in a million pieces, so he knows every inch of it after 40 years of assembly.
It was cool and also once again surprising how small they really are!


Yea, I know that car too. Takes your breath away in person....sigh.....

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Wow, you must have seen it when it was at Dave's, I love stopping off to see him, a real character. And the ambiance of hearing the cars at Summit Point while standing in his yard is priceless.



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 11 2016, 05:12 PM

Today was all Hollywood, meaning it was all about the nose job. We ran out of day but got to a good stopping point.


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 11 2016, 05:17 PM

smilie_pokal.gif smilie_pokal.gif smilie_pokal.gif Love this build.

Posted by: euro911 Jan 11 2016, 06:14 PM

Making better progress than I originally thought thumb3d.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 12 2016, 05:02 PM

Part 1 of this build is now complete. The body has been dry-fitted to a 914 chassis. From here we have to figure out suspension, front and rear. But it has been proved, you can modify a 914 to accept a 904 body.


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Posted by: bretth Jan 12 2016, 06:10 PM

Looking very cool. I've also had the eye Dr. drill my eye with that dremel looking tool to harvest rust from my eye. Be sure to do all of your antibiotic eye drops.


Brett

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jan 12 2016, 07:12 PM

Want. smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 12 2016, 10:34 PM

QUOTE(bretth @ Jan 12 2016, 04:10 PM) *

Looking very cool. I've also had the eye Dr. drill my eye with that dremel looking tool to harvest rust from my eye. Be sure to do all of your antibiotic eye drops.


Brett


Man, I've been using the eye drops around the clock, I don't want to see any more eye Dr's anytime soon.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 13 2016, 11:47 AM

Hey everyone, I don't need the motor I pulled out of the donor car. So it's FREE, pickup only at my shop in Ravena, NY.
Happy new Year-
Adam



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Posted by: bretth Jan 13 2016, 12:53 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 13 2016, 12:47 PM) *

Hey everyone, I don't need the motor I pulled out of the donor car. So it's FREE, pickup only at my shop in Ravena, NY.
Happy new Year-
Adam

Adam I am 20 minutes away. I'll take it.

Brett

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 13 2016, 02:41 PM

Brett, it's yours, I already answered your PM.

Brett said he is going to bring me chili, now that's worth it's weight in gold!

Posted by: bretth Jan 13 2016, 06:18 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 13 2016, 03:41 PM) *

Brett, it's yours, I already answered your PM.

Brett said he is going to bring me chili, now that's worth it's weight in gold!


The chili is good. A friend's recipe that is not like your typical chili. You will love it.

Brett

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 15 2016, 06:41 PM

Well, looks like a no-go on the off the shelf Dual A-arm setups. The Mendeola guys didn't respond when I asked if it would work for my project but the guy from EyeBall Engineering, who sells a similar setup was nice enough to get back with a very refreshing and honest answer.
"hi
in a word no,but anything is possible with enough money
the old saying goes speed costs money,how fast do you want to go?
thanks bruce"

I can only assume the answer would have been the same from Mendeola, which is why they didn't bother to respond.
Either way neither system will work as far as I know, so I'm back to my own engineering. I had already planned to lower the shock towers in the rear but I guess I'm going to try for the shorter shock in the front. I'm confident I can make it work.

Posted by: Phoenix-MN Jan 15 2016, 09:38 PM

Get your engineering hat on biggrin.gif I've been doing a bunch of renditions in my CAD program using modified corvette C4 control arms and modified 911 struts. More than one way to skin a cat idea.gif

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Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 16 2016, 02:36 PM

Look into 944 front spindles, uses same rotors and [mostly] same hubs as 911, and run separate coilovers. You could likely adapt the 944 lower arms (and balljoints) easily also.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 16 2016, 06:55 PM

Thanks guys for the ideas!

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2016, 07:58 PM

I think some use the A-arm parts off of a Opal.
There is a thread somewhere on the samba where a guy built his own A-arm from scratch, but right now all I can find is off-road set-ups.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2016, 08:03 PM

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6689847

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2016, 08:09 PM

Mustang 2 on a type 1 beetle pan

http://www.sterlingkitcars.com/members_n_forums/shocks-suspension/114-mustang-2-type-1-beetle-pan.html

http://www.heidts.com/part/mustang-2-front-suspension-ifs/

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2016, 08:18 PM

http://eyeball-engineering.net/a-arm.html

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 16 2016, 08:26 PM

A search on the Germanlook suspension forum to look through.

http://www.germanlook.net/forums/search.php?searchid=290023

Posted by: gereed75 Jan 16 2016, 08:28 PM

Not sure why mendeola would not work. They have various widths and various hubs for VW wide five and Porsche 944 I believe. I would not pass this by without more thorough consideration.

Just figuring out to weld it in would be the trick. You got the fab/welding skills.

Posted by: porschetub Jan 17 2016, 12:55 AM

Reduced height type 1 super beetle struts/hubs (redrilled) maybe should be a similar spring rate have no idea if they will work.
just putting it out there,cheers

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 17 2016, 08:15 AM

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=51499&sid=92ebf7b2d6cbd3516b5b269b951c1928&start=15

Some solutions from England.

Books for the builder:
1) Build Your Own Sports Car by Ron Champion
2) Competition Car Composites by Simon McBeath
3) Race and Rally Source Book by Allan Staniforth
4) Competition Car Suspension by Allan Staniforth
5) How to Build Motorcycle engine Racing Cars' by Tony Pashley

http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Build+Your+Own+Sports+Car+by+Ron+Champion&rh=n%3A916520%2Ck%3ABuild+Your+Own+Sports+Car+by+Ron+Champion
http://thebargeots.free.fr/documents/Competition_Car_Suspension.pdf
http://www.962and904.com/

http://www.fsae.com/forums/showthread.php?11515-Upright-cast-in-lug-examples-anyone
http://www.wwufsae.com/Shared_FSAE_CAD_Library/


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 17 2016, 09:57 AM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 16 2016, 06:18 PM) *

http://eyeball-engineering.net/a-arm.html


This was the response from Bruce at Eyeball, a very honest answer, and much appreciated.

"hi
in a word no,but anything is possible with enough money
the old saying goes speed costs money,how fast do you want to go?
thanks bruce "

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 17 2016, 10:30 AM

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http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/07/oh-canada-the-manic-gt/

A car you've never heard of,Canadian even.A ton of money that went ffft,and dissipated into nothing.
I acquired two pairs of raw castings for the rear suspension uprights about that time,May '69.Planned to adapt them into a custom mid,lost in a move. dry.gif

http://auto.lapresse.ca/dossiers/dossiers-speciaux/201501/15/01-4835523-trois-hommes-et-une-manic.php
https://www.google.ca/search?q=Manic-GRAC&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=606&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil2Mmg4MHKAhWlr4MKHW0qAc0Q_AUIBigA&dpr=1.5

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Posted by: porschetub Jan 18 2016, 01:54 AM

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Jan 17 2016, 03:28 PM) *

Not sure why mendeola would not work. They have various widths and various hubs for VW wide five and Porsche 944 I believe. I would not pass this by without more thorough consideration.

Just figuring out to weld it in would be the trick. You got the fab/welding skills.


yes but you are buying an engineering jewel designed to bolt on to a beetle floorpan,no separate floorpan in a 914,think you would have to tube it out and build a suitable mounting plate,depends on what Adam has to spend really.



Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 18 2016, 09:29 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 17 2016, 10:57 AM) *

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 16 2016, 06:18 PM) *

http://eyeball-engineering.net/a-arm.html


This was the response from Bruce at Eyeball, a very honest answer, and much appreciated.

"hi
in a word no,but anything is possible with enough money
the old saying goes speed costs money,how fast do you want to go?
thanks bruce "

No why? Because they don't know how to attach it?
All of the systems I linked you would have to make custom mounting.

Personally I would jig and fab it myself...but I'm cheap and have the skills to copy stuff for my own use.
I'd start by building a front end tube chassis and look at what others do from the VW stuff, sandrails, stock cars/racecars, etc.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 18 2016, 10:40 AM

QUOTE
No why? Because they don't know how to attach it?
All of the systems I linked you would have to make custom mounting.

Personally I would jig and fab it myself...but I'm cheap and have the skills to copy stuff for my own use.
I'd start by building a front end tube chassis and look at what others do from the VW stuff, sandrails, stock cars/racecars, etc.

The problem I was hoping to solve with the off the shelf stuff was to make the build easier and less unknown engineering. If I have to get out my thinking cap I'm going to try to lower the shock towers in the front and keep the Bilstein Coilover setup, save myself $3000+ on the Dual A-Arm setup. If I can get the existing system to work, that's cheaper, but I was thinking of doing the Dual A-Arm setup if it was more a plug and play thing, but it's not.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 18 2016, 07:09 PM

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http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/diagram/914suspensiondiagram.htm

https://www.google.ca/search?q=911+914+front+suspension+upper+wishbone&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=641&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTgZPkw7TKAhVCk4MKHe9kCpQQ_AUIBigB#imgdii=BgUvIjiUsHOgwM%3A%3BBgUvIjiUsHOgwM%3A%3BTfyMXCqsFHP-fM%3A&imgrc=BgUvIjiUsHOgwM%3A

Bill Kirkland,904FF:
"The two Alan Staniforth Books are an absolute God-send to beginners starting out in chassis design and suspension set-up.
At this stage, it was realised that the 914 front Macpherson struts could be modified in the usual manner by cutting off
the top of the tube in the hub,welding in a threaded plug to take a rose (heim) joint which could then become part of the top wishbone.
So now we were into front and rear roll centres, effective swing axle lengths, wishbone angles, chassis mounting points, steering rack
location to avoid bump steer etc etc.Some of the design work around that time is shown below."

A simple approach,in a minimalist method,working from what you have to what you need.
An experiment with some spares you have layin around,the cutting and welding of the tube.
Setting up the chassis on hardpoints,true level and at static ride height,will provide the baseline geometry to work from.
Map the lengths out to scale,drawing on the floor,chalkboard or cad,using the actual numbers.
The effective rolling radius of the tires selected must be accounted for.
Some study of the theory is involved,an improvement of camber gain while minimizing bumpsteer is the objective.
Arbritrary wild ass guesses would result in a horribly handling 904/14,some attempt made at making it better,
not merely hanging it off the chassis.The placement of the top ball or heim is critical,the effective top arm length too.
Many factors that must be made right,some cutting,welding and hacking is involved,the top wishbone's front pivot box inside the sheetmetal.
Measure twice,cut once.Maybe shortening the tube will work dandy,avoiding the unequal length top wishbone,and defining the top attach point.
None of this is plug n play,this is pay your way. smile.gif
Err,play your way. biggrin.gif

Gettin interesting now.
A few examples to peruse,to like,stimulate the inventor juices.
https://grabcad.com/
/

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 18 2016, 08:30 PM

I reached out to the guys at Elephant to see if they have any ideas, maybe someone has down this before.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 18 2016, 09:37 PM

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gimp
View forward,LH side.
Something like this,good camber gain,tie rod arm lowered.
A RH a-arm flipped,shortened,and pivot axis positioned to suit,the parts are all at hand.

Cutting and hacking.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=83031&st=80&p=1229104&#entry1229104

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 19 2016, 12:11 AM

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Heavily modded RH a-arm,shortened,sectioned,reinforced.
Replacing the torsion bar with a gundrilled version on top,the springrate can be raised.
The pivot axis of the top arm is not parallel with the bottom's,in either plane.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=animation+unequal+length+a+arm+suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU2c03KkF6k
https://www.google.ca/search?q=front+suspension+geometry+design&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=641&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjN-KSMrLXKAhUHXR4KHSIAD48Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=ZWhZXqV8p0k_AM%3A

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Posted by: veekry9 Jan 19 2016, 01:48 AM

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http://performancetrends.com/download.htm#rcc

A few minutes work to derive the numbers.

http://www.planet-9.com/981-chat/103555-does-981-have-multi-link-rear-suspension-3.html
The graphs describe the 904/14-6 in motion,desirable attributes.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=119846

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 19 2016, 07:18 AM

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A small subframe to carry the torsional loads,welded and or bolted into place in front of the bulkhead on sheetmetal receivers.
Flipping the a-arms side for side,shortened and sectioned.

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Rocker stiffener rib,another added to the pivot tube,if necessary.
Something to hang your Bilsteins from.

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A two piece subframe,bolts to the bulkhead and bottom factory tube.
Minimal approach,the top tube positions the top a-arm bushing receiver.
Tubular.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 19 2016, 08:41 AM

Shortening the strut is not going to work unless you can find a shorter strut/shock insert.

Veeks idea I though of as well, but it still needs shocks and may end up a poor working design. I don't know how well torsion springs will work on an A-arm suspension.
But the plus side would be the bottom arms would use the stock alignment points.

Personally I'd look into the Mustang II front end, a lot of the rod guys use the Mustang front end so parts are plentiful and cheap.

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 19 2016, 09:47 AM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 19 2016, 07:41 AM) *

Shortening the strut is not going to work unless you can find a shorter strut/shock insert.

Veeks idea I though of as well, but it still needs shocks and may end up a poor working design. I don't know how well torsion springs will work on an A-arm suspension.
But the plus side would be the bottom arms would use the stock alignment points.

Personally I'd look into the Mustang II front end, a lot of the rod guys use the Mustang front end so parts are plentiful and cheap.

You don't use a strut insert- it looks like it's only the housing that gets used as making the knuckle for bolting to the upper and lower ball joints. The shock would be installed on a separate mount taking into consideration of the total travel of your new components. And torsion bars work fine with an Short/Long Arm type 1 or type 2 suspension- all of the Chrysler A and B body musclecars had torsion bars on their SLA Type 2 suspensions.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 19 2016, 09:51 AM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Jan 19 2016, 07:47 AM) *

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 19 2016, 07:41 AM) *

Shortening the strut is not going to work unless you can find a shorter strut/shock insert.

Veeks idea I though of as well, but it still needs shocks and may end up a poor working design. I don't know how well torsion springs will work on an A-arm suspension.
But the plus side would be the bottom arms would use the stock alignment points.

Personally I'd look into the Mustang II front end, a lot of the rod guys use the Mustang front end so parts are plentiful and cheap.

You don't use a strut insert- it looks like it's only the housing that gets used as making the knuckle for bolting to the upper and lower ball joints. The shock would be installed on a separate mount taking into consideration of the total travel of your new components. And torsion bars work fine with an Short/Long Arm type 1 or type 2 suspension- all of the Chrysler A and B body musclecars had torsion bars on their SLA Type 2 suspensions.


Yep, plenty of Locost builds go this route.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 19 2016, 10:15 AM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 19 2016, 06:41 AM) *

Shortening the strut is not going to work unless you can find a shorter strut/shock insert.


Guys, I think he is referring to the original idea, not Veeks' design here.


QUOTE
I don't know how well torsion springs will work on an A-arm suspension.


It's a spring, why might it not work? This layout, at least, seems to be keeping the torsion bar in the same location with the same mounting points. I could see issues if you wanted to have different mountings for the A-arms, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

--DD

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 19 2016, 10:23 AM

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What's great about these struts is the method of fabrication,allowing much leeway in the modifications to suit the UELW geometry.
A narrow tire,as per the genuine article,poses no problems,fitting a wider front tire to a 904/914 makes for a more acute kingpin angle,setting the scrub radius.
Cutting and prepping the strut must be done carefully,working to < 0.25mm/.01".The balljoint's pin and clamping bolt bores make for convenient references.
Jigging up is a simple matter,so must be done as a matter of course,ensuring dimensional equality side to side and repeatability.
Setting your ride height,maintaining a horizontal lower arm,is a matter of moving the axle forging up the tube,the axle centerline the datum.
Butt welding the tube is less strong than a lap joint,a tubular doubler inserted internally,real strong,to resist fatigue in the heat affected zone.
The same approach when welding the top a-arms and pivot tubes,these welds must pass penetration and porosity tests,crack free.
The placement of the damper end must be considered carefully,the lower arm not designed to carry the load,so must be reinforced if doing so.
A pushrod,rocker or lever arrangement would be possible with a heavily ribbed upper arm,the shock positioned inboard of the pivot.

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The objective is to use what's at hand,cutting,grinding and welding,to close tolerance.
Care must be taken that the joints have freedom of movement throughout the full travel.
A better mousetrap might be out there,such as adding or moving the top front bushing closer to the lateral beam of the control arm.
Tweak the idea to suit your installation,904 or 914,measuring and calculating the front and rear roll centers and cg's.
smile.gif Play away. biggrin.gif

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 19 2016, 11:07 AM

Yeah, what he said... blink.gif

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 19 2016, 11:21 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jan 19 2016, 11:15 AM) *

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 19 2016, 06:41 AM) *

Shortening the strut is not going to work unless you can find a shorter strut/shock insert.


Guys, I think he is referring to the original idea, not Veeks' design here.

Yes that is what I was referring to. shades.gif


QUOTE
I don't know how well torsion springs will work on an A-arm suspension.


It's a spring, why might it not work? This layout, at least, seems to be keeping the torsion bar in the same location with the same mounting points. I could see issues if you wanted to have different mountings for the A-arms, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

--DD


Didn't say it wouldn't work, I was just questioning if it would be the best solution.



Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 19 2016, 07:16 PM

I'm going to play around with the towers next week, we'll see what works. sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 19 2016, 09:29 PM

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CG is on this vertical line,laden.

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CG height tbd,min/max




Posted by: veekry9 Jan 19 2016, 10:43 PM

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3/4" plate-crs,jig for both axis level.Location pins (ball dim)variable.
Tack heavy,remove location tube,pins before final passes.
Adjustable ball to ball dim,(blue),and spindle height.
M10,M12 shoulder bolts.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 20 2016, 08:06 AM

Rube Goldberg. Where you gonna bolt up the front of the top control arms?

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 20 2016, 10:59 AM

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Lower cg,loads the lower control arm tube,the reinforcement simple channel and plate.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 20 2016, 11:49 AM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jan 20 2016, 09:06 AM) *

Rube Goldberg. Where you gonna bolt up the front of the top control arms?


Relevant question,the weights and balance data unresolved.
Less than a 914,lighter up front too,I would hazard a guess.
A set of scales to determine balance fore and aft,and the time tested leaner beams test to figure the height of the cg.
Everything is a trial and fit,slice and dice,seat of the pants,eyeballin,etc.
Go ahead,roll your own 904/14-6,it's good fer yuh.
As Phoenix-Mn said,a new moosetrap is invented every day. smile.gif
Come to think of it,Adam,do you have a rollover rotisserie cage ala RD?
Handy for such computations,the numbers defining the handling of the 904.
It would have to be as good as the GTS or GT14,the point of the sweat.
Making a shortened Macpherson strut work in so little headroom is a tall order.(Porsche ruled them out early in the design stage)
Losing the strut and adopting uelws,allows some tuning of the camber gain and antidive the
genuine article benefited from,using all of the 165-15 tires.

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Economy of scale,904/906 LH or RH.
Turned on a VDF tracer lathe,1963.
Similar bj seats to the 911.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 20 2016, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(bretth @ Jan 13 2016, 10:53 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 13 2016, 12:47 PM) *

Hey everyone, I don't need the motor I pulled out of the donor car. So it's FREE, pickup only at my shop in Ravena, NY.
Happy new Year-
Adam

Adam I am 20 minutes away. I'll take it.

Brett


That's a deal I'll take every time, Brett came through wen 5lbs of chili, thanks man! Glad the motor went to a good home.



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Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 20 2016, 02:13 PM

QUOTE(veekry9 @ Jan 19 2016, 10:43 PM) *

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3/4" plate-crs,jig for both axis level.Location pins (ball dim)variable.
Tack heavy,remove location tube,pins before final passes.
Adjustable ball to ball dim,(blue),and spindle height.
M10,M12 shoulder bolts.


As much as I hate the idea of cutting up a vintage IMSA car it looks like the center seat racer is a better start. I also really like Veekry9's suspension ideas. Very forward thinking and simplistic. assimilate.gif

Posted by: bretth Jan 20 2016, 02:29 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 20 2016, 02:45 PM) *

That's a deal I'll take every time, Brett came through wen 5lbs of chili, thanks man! Glad the motor went to a good home.


Glad you guys liked the chili. Was great to meet you guys and see some of the awesome cars you have there. Thanks again for the motor.

Brett

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 20 2016, 07:07 PM

If you are going to mod the towers anyways. 944 and race coilovers. 20mm 911 rotors stock. All sorts of aftermarket everything. Or skip the coilover and make the 944 balljoint fit the 914 arm.

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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 20 2016, 11:24 PM

I plan to start playing with lowering the towers next week. I was able to salvage all the mounting points from the center seater so it should be smooth sailing.



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Posted by: veekry9 Jan 21 2016, 05:26 AM

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More fixturing.
What if you want to run a 225 tire,with a low profile radial carcass?
The spindle geometry is modified by moving the top ball inward.
The kingpin angle is thereby increased from 11 to 14* and the scrub radius is improved.
The spindle height can be increased,lowering the ride height from the factory 130mm.
Measure,measure,cut.
smile.gif

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 21 2016, 07:21 AM

If you cut down the strut have you found a shorter insert yet?
If you're hoping to just shorten the top chassis mounting and use the stock length strut insert it will just bottom out.
The strut insert will bottom out if you lower the 914 too much, you can raise the spindle (thus lowering the car) a certain amount. Tangerine sells lowering struts.

Just a thought
why not something like below, except lose the top A-arm, keep the stock 914 A-arm, use a bare strut (no insert) for the spindle to the yoke in the pic and then lay the shock down like in the pic.
You can also keep the stock 914 torsion spring and then it's just a shock (with no coil spring) in the lay down config.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 21 2016, 07:35 AM

Veeks could you draw what I'm talking about above. bye1.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 21 2016, 08:57 AM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 21 2016, 05:21 AM) *

If you cut down the strut have you found a shorter insert yet?
If you're hoping to just shorten the top chassis mounting and use the stock length strut insert it will just bottom out.
The strut insert will bottom out if you lower the 914 too much, you can raise the spindle (thus lowering the car) a certain amount. Tangerine sells lowering struts.

Just a thought
why not something like below, except lose the top A-arm, keep the stock 914 A-arm, use a bare strut (no insert) for the spindle to the yoke in the pic and then lay the shock down like in the pic.
You can also keep the stock 914 torsion spring and then it's just a shock (with no coil spring) in the lay down config.


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I'm going to roll the dice on the fact that the coil over have a lot of adjustment, so with a shorter strut and the adjustment I might be able to squeeze a few inches out. It's the cheapest route, so it should be the first. Also, the most simple. What I should probably do is send a limo full of Hooters girls to pick up veekry9 and bring him down here for a few weeks. happy11.gif happy11.gif happy11.gif

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 21 2016, 09:16 AM

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In the future,antigravity generators will allow the use of quaint vehicles of the 20th century as personal performance runabouts.

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RH front,view forward.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Traction_Avant
Nice work from the '20s-30s,front torsion bar suspension,front wheel drive.
The idea is the same,using the 914 lowers,strut,antirollbar,floorpan,brakes.
One constraint is the length of the torsion bars which will protrude from the 904 lower valance,I think.
A simple tubeframe to carry the forward ends of the control arms,bolted to receivers welded to the remaining sheetmetal.
Resolved the problem if shortening the torsion bars or tubes is necessary.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 21 2016, 09:47 AM

Good news, the guys at Elephant Racing got back to me and they have a plan that can squeeze at least two inches out of the struts. Stay tuned!

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 21 2016, 09:49 AM

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That's entertainment!
Spectacular hooters sweety,ah,ah,are they real?

Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2016, 10:04 AM

I shortened my struts on my Volvo...Koni Race inserts are available in various shorter lengths.

Once welded up I added threaded collars to run Ø 2.5" springs.
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Posted by: veekry9 Jan 21 2016, 10:50 AM

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One would like to use as much of the donor 914 as possible,the emulation of the 904 running gear bringing the front geometry closer to the original.
Looking closely at the a arms here on the drawing you can see the rising camber design,it works real good.
One of the other issues is the rear trailing arm pivot point to axle cl with a lowered ride height.

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Get down.Git it on.
http://www.r3vlimited.com/BOARD/showthread.php?t=151946&page=46
Some hairpin action.
smile.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbaZU38TBEE

r-clk 'loop'
As good as it gets,a high bar to leap.

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Jan 21 2016, 02:43 PM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 21 2016, 05:21 AM) *

If you cut down the strut have you found a shorter insert yet?
If you're hoping to just shorten the top chassis mounting and use the stock length strut insert it will just bottom out.
The strut insert will bottom out if you lower the 914 too much, you can raise the spindle (thus lowering the car) a certain amount. Tangerine sells lowering struts.

Just a thought
why not something like below, except lose the top A-arm, keep the stock 914 A-arm, use a bare strut (no insert) for the spindle to the yoke in the pic and then lay the shock down like in the pic.
You can also keep the stock 914 torsion spring and then it's just a shock (with no coil spring) in the lay down config.


IPB Image


Why not add another short strut where the vertical fixed arm is. This would double your compression distance and avoid a bottoming out of the single strut.

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 21 2016, 03:43 PM

The vertical strut looks to be adjustable and probably has been adjusted to the compression length of the total travel. We'd have to have more information than what's presented to assume anything else... I'm assuming.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 21 2016, 03:54 PM

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Salvagable 914,Flat 12 Roadster. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 21 2016, 05:05 PM

After much consultation with the brains at Elephant Racing they have about three tricks I can do to shave up to 3 inches off, very exciting.
So next week I will start to lower all 4 towers where they need to be so I can know how much we need to shave on the existing struts.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 21 2016, 05:28 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 21 2016, 03:05 PM) *

After much consultation with the brains at Elephant Racing they have about three tricks I can do to shave up to 3 inches off, very exciting.
So next week I will start to lower all 4 towers where they need to be so I can know how much we need to shave on the existing struts.

or you could have just read post #496 smile.gif

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 21 2016, 08:35 PM

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914,904 or even the 906.
OK,so,you need a set of control arms to fit in a short headspace,and you have to carry a spare.
A half height bulkhead will carry the top arm's bushing,adjustable for static caster.
The top bushing beam,a virtual copy of the lower,is adjustable by shims and a keyway for static camber.
The damper arrangement is preferably kept low to the ground,10mm in front of the beams,the left attached on the right in an x configuration,levers n pushrods if you like.
Or the simple reinforcement of the lower arm to carry the increased load of the angled shock tubes.
About 100mm of space in front of the bulkhead,chopped to the lower red line to clear the 904 hood.
The top red line is the top of the tires.
In lieu of a Celette bench,a time tried method involves a set of pillars,wood posts even.
The whole chassis ought to be welded to the floor via tubular risers of 30-40",that have been fastened to the concrete.Truly level,+/- 1/64",.26mm,use a transit,laser level,and shim into place.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 21 2016, 10:41 PM

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Another drawing,top view.
Compact,low,easy install,the existing bulkhead is used as an attach plane for the supplementary top beam,in two pieces,fastened to the bottom beam.
Forms a w truss,transferring the loads to the unibody,adjustable by shim and sliding key.
A reinforcing channel or tube can be added on the rear of the bulkhead,as it has been chopped to clear the bonnet.
The factory fuel tank likely must be sectioned to clear the hood,the filler neck re-positioned.
The steering rack is in the factory position.
The boxed ribs carry the noses of the shortened top arms,adjustable by shim and slots.

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(edit:01/22/16) 914 chassis cut to remove 150 mm from wheelbase to match the 904's 2300 dimension.

Closely scaled,+/- 1.5mm,1/16",gimped.

Clearly,the shortened strut will clear the 904 hood,the travel sufficient.
The torsion spring appears to have enough room too.
Smooth sailing ahead,now,about that wishbone 914. idea.gif
Some good advantage,a rising rate of camber and allowing a wider tire without the constraints of the MacPherson struts.
The more I look at it,the more I like it.
biggrin.gif

I know of only a few 14s that have made a conversion.
The nice part is the use of factory parts,hacked and welded.

/

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 22 2016, 02:35 PM

QUOTE(veekry9 @ Jan 21 2016, 08:41 PM) *

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Another drawing,top view.
Compact,low,easy install,the existing bulkhead is used as an attach plane for the supplementary top beam,in two pieces,fastened to the bottom beam.
Forms a w truss,transferring the loads to the unibody,adjustable by shim and sliding key.
A reinforcing channel or tube can be added on the rear of the bulkhead,as it has been chopped to clear the bonnet.
The factory fuel tank likely must be sectioned to clear the hood,the filler neck re-positioned.
The steering rack is in the factory position.
The boxed ribs carry the noses of the shortened top arms,adjustable by shim and slots.

[attachmentid=537223]

Closely scaled,+/- 1.5mm,1/16",gimped.

Clearly,the shortened strut will clear the 904 hood,the travel sufficient.
The torsion spring appears to have enough room too.
Smooth sailing ahead,now,about that wishbone 914. idea.gif
Some good advantage,a rising rate of camber and allowing a wider tire without the constraints of the MacPherson struts.
The more I look at it,the more I like it.
biggrin.gif

I know of only a few 14s that have made the conversion.
The nice part is the use of factory parts,hacked and welded.


You did a much better job with the overlay, mine was hand drawn from the manual.


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Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 22 2016, 02:46 PM



[attachmentid=537223]

love the overlaid drawings, but didn't you shorten the wheel base 5"????

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 22 2016, 04:20 PM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Jan 22 2016, 12:46 PM) *

[attachmentid=537223]

love the overlaid drawings, but didn't you shorten the wheel base 5"????

I did on mine, old school, cut the paper, it looks like the other one is the correct dims too.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 23 2016, 04:35 AM

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http://msroadrace.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=4
This version uses the diecast crossmembers,to carry the upper a-arms.
As moulded,baked enamel,polished and anodized finishes,your preference.
The top member is fastened to the chopped bulkhead,to clear the low bonnet.
This would fit nicely into early 911s as well,with the mods to the bulkhead more complex.
As for the upper torsion springs,the inclusion depends on the desired rate and the possibility of a higher stiffness beyond a defined roll angle,a two curve rate.
With the shortened upper arm,a shorter spring could be included.
The absence of dampers in the image is deliberate,any number of schemes is under consideration.
A standard configuration shock,leaned to attach to the upper crossmember is the simplest approach,though the lower arm must be reinforced when welding the receiver to it.
An attach element for the top end of the damper is also needed,bolted to the upper crossmember.
Placing the shocks inside and using a rocker arrangement has a few advantages although more complex,using more parts.

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This is a low headroom install with modified parts for a 914 to 904 metamorphosis,cheap dry.gif too.
Requires some fab skill and sweat equity for a polished result,a good handler that won't roll the tire under in hard braking and turning maneuvers.
A 914/911/904/906 torsion spring,unequal length a-arm suspension with some potential for wider,taller tires and lowered(or raised) ride heights.
/

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 23 2016, 10:34 AM

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A rigid member to carry your double wishbone suspension.
Transforms the front end of the 914 into a modern handler,with 914/911 parts.
Now for the rears,the 904's a trailing links setup,very nicely done in '63.
The roll,squat and rear steering curves are vastly different than the 914's.
The 914 was built to a totally unlike production oriented design with the costs of manufacture and assembly paramount.
The 904/14 should exhibit some degree of similar characteristics,giving the correct amount of camber and roll induced steering.
Just so the the entire effort isn't a bust when it does a turn at Watkins Glen,oversteering grossly and disappointing.
dry.gif

https://www.google.ca/search?q=porsche+914+racing&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=641&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjS85iU4r_KAhWDtIMKHfTrBfAQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=porsche+914+track+day+racing
https://www.google.ca/search?q=porsche+904+carrera+gts&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=641&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwioxJv5_L_KAhVGr4MKHaZ0AwIQ_AUIBygB#

/

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 23 2016, 08:09 PM

Looking back at the earlier posts regarding the hallowed status of the IMSA racer.
A part of me would like to see it resurrected as well,and further,modified as a competitive entrant in current series.
Once a racer,still a racer.
First thing,lighten up,then the extreme aero mods to make a smaller hole in the air.
The roll cage,hacked to fit the targa bar closely with the intent of drag reduction.
And on and on to the cleanest 914 to date,'to make a fast racer faster'.
evilgrin.gif

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http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/66532-1958-Porsche-356-Midmounted-Audi-V8

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Aug 7 2015, 07:09 PM) *

Randy,
I'll make the same argument to you that I made to everyone else. Everyone wanted $25,000+ for half finished six conversions. Nobody wanted this car, it had been languishing on ebay for months, I got it for $15,000, and sold the gearbox for $5000, so I'm down to $10,000. The car had not been raced in years and was destined to be sitting for many more. I will drive it and maybe race again with it.
When I first got the car I offered to trade it for a tired six conversion if anyone wanted to preserve the heritage, all I heard was crickets.
So in actuality I am saving this car, it was destined to be chopped up for it's parts, which it would have been in a few years time.
As far as preserving history, I am also restoring the 58 A Coupe that won at Daytona in 66, I pulled this one out of the mud, where it was dumped in 69.


Daytona Winner? first.gif
Farming out the dipping for a one off makes sense economically.
A field of dreams like what you have there in Ravenna may be more attractive with the absence of your evil foe,FeO.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=electrolytic+chemical+rust+removal+tank&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=641&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG_97ppcHKAhUJgYMKHV98DZ0Q_AUIBSgA&dpr=1.5#q=redistrip
https://www.google.ca/search?q=electrolytic+chemical+rust+removal+tank&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=641&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG_97ppcHKAhUJgYMKHV98DZ0Q_AUIBSgA&dpr=1.5
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=245229&hl=electrolytic

/

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 23 2016, 09:12 PM

wasn't It a Daytona participant ???

QUOTE
if that is Dave McClain's #19 car from the 1966 24 hrs of Daytona, it DNF 80 laps in with a gearbox problem.
I hope we will see this 356 on the track again some day!

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 23 2016, 10:08 PM

McLain


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phs3i0onDDg


http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/Daytona-1966-02-06.html

more:
Surtees-'66

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUT5mDCwNYI
That slope down to the river sure looks like a big dropoff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4x29XpIg0E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bztj3gkZoJU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utjmPCYUumo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9fngNwbUIo

Some of the races of significance early on here in Ontario while camping in the rain.
Bowmanville.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 24 2016, 08:31 AM

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https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/inside-out-restoring-1966-daytona-24-hrs-porsche-906-prototype
https://www.google.ca/search?q=porsche+906+1966+daytona+24&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=606&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig5dKV0sLKAhUrtYMKHaBzD3UQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=porsche+906

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Listed as a driver for the 904,Hans Herrmann drove the 906 to 6th overall and 1st in class.

BTW,this is a diecast model,not bad,huh?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 24 2016, 09:19 AM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Jan 23 2016, 07:12 PM) *

wasn't It a Daytona participant ???

QUOTE
if that is Dave McClain's #19 car from the 1966 24 hrs of Daytona, it DNF 80 laps in with a gearbox problem.
I hope we will see this 356 on the track again some day!


The Daytona A Coupe was not driven by Dave McClain, it was driven by Jim Watson and it wasn't the Daytona 24 Hour race.
Here is a pic of the car racing at Courtland, AL a few months before.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 24 2016, 09:23 AM

Also, I really hope no one wants to re-start the discussion on the IMSA car, I don't think there is anything more to be said so nothing new will come out of talking about it again. What will come out is a bunch of people getting increasingly pissed off and upping the ante saying nasty things. I don't want to discuss it anymore, so please refrain from doing it on my thread about my build.

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 24 2016, 10:40 AM

Does anyone know what's become of the Texas Gull Wing 904?
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/you-want-porsche-p904-carrera

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 24 2016, 11:45 AM

Don't get me wrong,I'm in total agreement with you on the matter,it was merely a personal wish,but I have no stake in it.
The solutions to the suspension,fore and aft is what intrigues me,having done some prior,similar work.
One really farout front end is the double straight axle,Lakes style,with a twist and very low and compact.
I only mention it as no-one else has and may solve the problem if any are encountered in the weeks to come.

https://427motorco.co.uk/pages/the-camber-compensation-amp-anti-roll-suspension-system
This one is dear to my heart for it's design brilliance.
A derivative is on the back burner,with a few tweaks.
https://www.youtube.com/user/maicy123/videos
evilgrin.gif

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 26 2016, 06:57 AM

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The strut tube still full length,hanging off the lower arm,can't tell if the spindle has been raised.
The rear weldment seems to be attached to where the tx mount attaches.
Zooming in,a hint of a swing arm under the right side.
The door surrounds appear to have been layed up to improve the shutlines.
The rear wheels look to be corrrect.
I don't have a source for the pix,the car on a shelf,along with a number of engines of various descriptions.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 27 2016, 06:56 AM

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Phoenix-Mn
Put some actual numbers to the drawing on a 914 track width.

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RH front suspension,upper a-arm on cut and welded strut.

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LH front suspension,rubber boot over top a-arm.

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CFRP chassis,articulated front suspension,note the rollbar arrangement.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 30 2016, 09:16 AM

Just when I was starting to make good progress, real life intervenes. A friend wanted all his parts gone, so it took us all week to load up, 3 truck and trailer loads, now the shop is tiny walking paths while we sort and sort, and then sort some more.
It was all 356 and early 911 stuff, but there was one 914 motor which will go back into circulation, probably for free again.
If only we all didn't have to make money to chase our dreams...


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Posted by: r_towle Jan 30 2016, 11:14 AM

My heart bleeds for you.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 30 2016, 11:17 AM

If you look closely you can see Peter Gregg's RSR ducktail!

Posted by: r_towle Jan 30 2016, 11:25 AM

"I had to go pick up a huge parts stash so I had to stop working on my 904......"

Living the dream, keep it up.

Posted by: veekry9 Jan 30 2016, 12:43 PM

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A solution for what is in the picture of the baby blue 914,perfection,clean,rust free.
By shortening the wheelbase,the cockpit is now that 150mm shorter,cramping the footroom in a big way.
The answer is moving the steering rack forward of the spindles which are then swapped side for side to point the spindle's steering arms forward.
This is not as difficult as it seems,the crossmember stays put,and the rack is mounted on tabs fastened to the existing provisions.
Seems like a lot of work,and it might be,however,the 6" of footroom you gain back makes the moving of the foot pedals forward simple.
The 904 had a similar arrangement for good reason,driver comfort at the 24 hr race of LeMans,not all crunched up,bowlegged.
Naturally,the master cylinder must also be moved forward,actuated by a rod or lever.
The footbox sheetmetal can now be cut out and moved forward as there is no longer a need for the space for the rack behind the crossmember.
The reason the 904 was built like that is the same reason the forward move makes perfect sense,the work to do it is acknowleged.

Posted by: tomrev Jan 30 2016, 02:34 PM

Veekry, You are light years ahead of me in planning out suspension solutions, but I wonder about flipping the steering arms 180 deg. Some years ago, while building a Lotus 23- like project, I used Lola Formula Ford suspension bits, and did just what you are talking about. It solved the layout- and footbox problems, but gave me big ackerman problems, which I couldn't cure without just about re-doing it, steering arm-wise. Is this something you would be able to correct, while flipping the arms?

Posted by: Phoenix-MN Jan 30 2016, 09:44 PM

I plan on swapping the struts side to side also. The steering arms have been bent/twisted/moved around in many ways by many people. I'm going to experiment with some struts to see is the arms can be straightened out like this. This would help in getting the ackeman angles closer to what they need to be.

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Posted by: veekry9 Jan 30 2016, 10:10 PM

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A minimum,should not be too difficult with the 914's sectioned chassis.

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The length of the control and tie-rods should match,the angle too.
You will develop problems otherwise.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=front+suspension+geometry+design&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=641&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjN-KSMrLXKAhUHXR4KHSIAD48Q_AUIBigB#imgrc=kETXtA0aAopJYM%3A

Ideally,the tie rod would be carried by the lower control arm,eliminating any unwanted bumpsteer.
That it hasn't been tried is because of the weight,complexity and costs involved.
The compromise is then the separate rack and arm,in front of the spindle,working the same as behind.
The rack up front makes for less room for the spare tire,which can be raised to clear the rack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcWbUX5KCbI

Watching a racing 904 as an incentive,more power,more tire.

/

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 31 2016, 09:37 AM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jan 30 2016, 09:25 AM) *

"I had to go pick up a huge parts stash so I had to stop working on my 904......"

Living the dream, keep it up.

Sometimes the dream is a little bit of a nightmare, I threw my shoulder out on this last haul, too much lifting and dragging I guess. It seems ok now but Friday was a wash, I took the down time and got ahead of writing up a bunch of barn find articles for magazines. Maybe I'm getting too old for this. My son Max is 5, so no help on that front for several years.
We will be sorting this week, and there is nothing more boring than that.


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Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Mar 3 2016, 11:27 AM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-914-2-door-convertible-/231863916148?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35fc2a9674:g:A4EAAOSwzgRWwkxH&item=231863916148
It looks like DR. 914 beat you to it anyway. barf.gif

Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 3 2016, 11:46 AM

Please tell me where I can sell a front hood for $1.45k. I love Lionel's ads.

Posted by: JmuRiz Mar 3 2016, 12:21 PM

QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Mar 3 2016, 09:27 AM) *

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-914-2-door-convertible-/231863916148?forcerrptr=true&hash=item35fc2a9674:g:A4EAAOSwzgRWwkxH&item=231863916148
It looks like DR. 914 beat you to it anyway. barf.gif

Scotty, what would it take ($) to make that look as intended.
Granted I know it'll still look like this:
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But fixing all that rust will most likely break someone's bank.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 3 2016, 06:45 PM

As much as I have not fond memories of AA while growing up in Atlanta, I hope they do sell their project, someone could have a lot of fun with it.

I was hoping to get some time in on my project this week, but work must come first, today we un-loaded the latest buy, in 20 degree weather, with no hydraulics on the truck, it was not fun.


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Posted by: JmuRiz Mar 3 2016, 09:06 PM

I need to find someone that wants to dump a decent 911 on the cheap...probably my only chance at ever getting one sad.gif

Anyone know someone desperate, haha.
Looks like you guys are still finding them out there somewhere.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 3 2016, 09:21 PM

QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Mar 3 2016, 07:06 PM) *

I need to find someone that wants to dump a decent 911 on the cheap...probably my only chance at ever getting one sad.gif

Anyone know someone desperate, haha.
Looks like you guys are still finding them out there somewhere.

We took out the trash for this guy, he had a couple of million in cars, but sold one of his buildings so wanted this stuff gone, the 7 cars I got from him were parked next to a real 911RS amongst other cool Porsches.
Your best bet for finding a cheap one is finding a roller, then building it into an outlaw slowly. If not the Boxsters and 996's are cheap.

Posted by: bretth Mar 3 2016, 09:26 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 3 2016, 07:45 PM) *

As much as I have not fond memories of AA while growing up in Atlanta, I hope they do sell their project, someone could have a lot of fun with it.

I was hoping to get some time in on my project this week, but work must come first, today we un-loaded the latest buy, in 20 degree weather, with no hydraulics on the truck, it was not fun.


Nice score. Let me know when you guys are ready to do lunch again.

Brett

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Mar 3 2016, 09:41 PM

I know that blue 71 911T on the top row. Let me know if you want some back history.




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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 3 2016, 11:00 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Mar 3 2016, 07:41 PM) *

I know that blue 71 911T on the top row. Let me know if you want some back history.

That would be great, every car has a story.
Send me what you know
adam@unobtanium-inc.com

Thanks!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 5 2016, 06:19 PM

Ok, so we cleared a bunch of cars out so I felt I had the time to get back on this project. Also, Thursday's I'm at the shop by myself so no distractions. I think I had been dreading this day because it is kind of the point of no return, cutting up the yellow 914. There is no going back now. I will start fitting the rear soon, then move forward. I'll probably send the rear suspension out to the guys at Elephant to get the ball rolling on that.


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Posted by: sixnotfour May 6 2016, 03:46 PM

Dude where's the 914 smoke.gif


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Posted by: veekry9 May 13 2016, 03:51 AM

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The Mahles look nice on this car,working on a ten hole look alike.
The rear suspension,on a 914 lowered to 904 ride height will have 'quirks' at track speed.
The trailing arms and lateral links setup of the 904-906-908 will produce a decent level of grip.
The use of the 914's swingarm supplemented by lateral rad rods make the production pieces perform likewise.
Stability under lateral loading will attenuate any propensity for oversteer on undulating surfaces.
smile.gif
/

Posted by: sixnotfour May 13 2016, 12:56 PM

Adam, you have to admit , those first Cut pics are pretty ......

carry on, sawzall-smiley.gif its your 914, or was laugh.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 15 2016, 02:44 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ May 13 2016, 10:56 AM) *

Adam, you have to admit , those first Cut pics are pretty ......

carry on, sawzall-smiley.gif its your 914, or was laugh.gif

Yeah, it was a little scary, but I feel like I have kind of crossed the Rubicon and there is a certain relief and freedom in that. I was hoping to get some more work done this week, but I'm hitting the road again tomorrow, have to pick up a 60 Roadster down south.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jun 10 2016, 05:40 AM

Found some time yesterday to get some cutting done. I was able to start playing with lowering the rear shock towers. The side oil tank might be a problem. I was hoping to leave it alone but it looks like I might have to move it inwards, so the rear body work can clear. I ran out of day, but at least I got some time in.


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Posted by: Mueller Jul 2 2016, 01:11 PM

Any progress in the last few weeks?

I take it you've seen this guys website for his 904 build?

http://members.shaw.ca/p904/

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 29 2016, 01:40 PM

Yeah, that's who I got my body from.

I broke away from getting cars out the door and spent part of yesterday and all of today fitting the tail. I was hoping to get away with not having to move the oil tank, but it was just in the wrong spot, so it is now moved.
I had to do some more trimming on the rear and the Supertraps were at the wrong angle, so I removed them for the time being. I'll either modify the angle later or get new ones. My new problem is the rain hats on the carbs are too high. I played around with ideas and I think the simplest thing to do is take off the velocity stacks and cut down the air filer, lowering the whole rain hat, it's worth a try anyway. The worst that could happen is I ruin two air cleaners.
It was good to get back on the project, the 550 build was sucking up all my extra time.


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Posted by: wingnut86 Jul 29 2016, 01:48 PM

Good work so far. Enjoy the feed immensely...

Posted by: Reverend Troublemaker Jul 29 2016, 01:58 PM

Adam - So after all that crap and alternative solutions being sought, you've ended up cutting the IMSA car to bits? Really? Wow.

Tony

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 29 2016, 02:57 PM

QUOTE(Reverend Troublemaker @ Jul 29 2016, 11:58 AM) *

Adam - So after all that crap and alternative solutions being sought, you've ended up cutting the IMSA car to bits? Really? Wow.

Tony


Tony-
I have to say I'm impressed, in a world where people never live up to their nick-names, but you do!
Ok, so I'll bite.
When a few people expressed outrage at my plan for the car I offered anyone who was interested two choices.
1. Trade me their six conversion.
2. Buy mine for enough for me to replace it.

No one offered to trade me a running and driving car. No one offered to buy my car for enough to replace it. And the last chance was one person expressed interest in it and asked for a few alternatives on how to buy it. I gave him 3 which I felt were very reasonable. This was a solution worked out behind the scenes on this board. I presented the choices and never heard anything back. Months went by before I actually started cutting on the car.
So, Tony, what would you have done? Lost thousands of dollars? Given the car away? No one with a comparable car wanted to trade, or take a hit on their car. Before I bought this one I tried to buy several from people on this board and all the cars I was offered were not finished projects that were all double what I paid for this car. So if no one in the 914 World wants to take a hit, why should I?

Now can we get back to my build now, I don't think there is really anything else to be said, the car has been chopped and on it's way into becoming the 904. I have reached the point of no return, so moving forward, if you don't agree with this project, don't click on it, it's really that simple.

Posted by: r_towle Jul 29 2016, 04:31 PM

With all that cutting, I sure hope you plan to close up some panels so it sort of looks right....or sort of complete. I assume you will build a cage for structure....but damn, seems like you should just cut the back all the way off....start with just tubing...I would

You might be able to put in the 964 (I think) rear suspension on a decent tube section for the rear....and eliminate the 914 rear suspension, which sucks anyways...

From what I have seen, the 964 uses uppper and lower control arms all mounted to horizontal tubes....

It might be a lot (tons) easier to line that up, then weld the tubes to the 914 at the firewall....



rich

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 29 2016, 07:51 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jul 29 2016, 02:31 PM) *

With all that cutting, I sure hope you plan to close up some panels so it sort of looks right....or sort of complete. I assume you will build a cage for structure....but damn, seems like you should just cut the back all the way off....start with just tubing...I would

You might be able to put in the 964 (I think) rear suspension on a decent tube section for the rear....and eliminate the 914 rear suspension, which sucks anyways...

From what I have seen, the 964 uses uppper and lower control arms all mounted to horizontal tubes....

It might be a lot (tons) easier to line that up, then weld the tubes to the 914 at the firewall....



rich

R-
Do you mean under the bodywork? Or the bodywork itself? The body wraps most of the car, as you can see on the mock up chassis. Most of what will be done underneath will be for strength, as far as making it look 904, that will be tough, they have a completely different suspension setup and frame. I quickly learned this was going to be a look replica, not an exact one. But luckily just like when the guy came up to me at a show and after looking at my 356 commented that he couldn't live with those flat floors, he would change them if it was his car. I told him that "I can see the floors when I'm driving, and that's what I do with my cars, drive them"
So with this car I'm not getting too crazy with what it looks like under the skin.
I do like the tube idea though!


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Posted by: r_towle Jul 29 2016, 08:32 PM

Not intended to give you shut, just saying I hope you have a plan to finish off underneath so when you open the rear deck up it has a good appearance.....no need to be stock, just done.

Again, tubes in the rear may just make this easier....

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jul 29 2016, 08:42 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jul 29 2016, 06:32 PM) *

Not intended to give you shut, just saying I hope you have a plan to finish off underneath so when you open the rear deck up it has a good appearance.....no need to be stock, just done.

Again, tubes in the rear may just make this easier....


You may be onto something my friend, I've only just started down the path.

Posted by: r_towle Jul 29 2016, 08:49 PM

Somebody on here, might be the Audi turbo build, did a 964 rear suspension....
It looks like a rectangle off the firewall with tubing, simple to lay out, simple to keep square....

Do some searching...it's worth the look, it's a tube framed car, but for your project I was just seeing it make sense in the rear....

Posted by: r_towle Jul 29 2016, 08:58 PM

Here is the teaser, but some discussion on a Miata rear suspension...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=124898&hl=tube%20%20Audi&st=30

Then the detailed build
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=142936&st=0&p=1534277&#entry1534277


Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 30 2016, 03:12 AM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jul 29 2016, 08:49 PM) *

Somebody on here, might be the Audi turbo build, did a 964 rear suspension....
It looks like a rectangle off the firewall with tubing, simple to lay out, simple to keep square....

Do some searching...it's worth the look, it's a tube framed car, but for your project I was just seeing it make sense in the rear....

Wasn't that a V8 car he was building then ended up selling it off?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 5 2017, 04:21 PM

Ok, I said enough was enough and threw my phone in the toilet today and said,
"I'm working on my car!!!"
I have to say it was very satisfying to get back on it, I think I'm going to do the same tomorrow.
My latest hurdle was once I got the rear end dry fitted it was sitting too high. I couldn't lower the motor and I didn't want to give up running Weber's so I consulted with my mechanic on what my options were. After putting our heads together we decided if we took out the velocity stacks we could lower the rain hats. While I would lose a few horsepower the car has plenty to spare. Once decided on this course I had to figure out how to do it. I cut the K&N filer in half and it fit well and then I took the studs the rain hats sit on and trimmed them. This involved hacksawing and JB welding. Once I prove this as a working system I will probably get K&N to make me the correct height air cleaners and maybe make better rain hat studs, though these may work. With that done the rear end was fitting at a much better angle. The other option we toyed with was running the velocity stacks out of the body like a 906, but with the rear grill it would have been awkward.
Once this was done I started on cutting the sheet metal off the front but ran out of day. Tomorrow will be a little dull, it will take me awhile to dis-mantle the fire suppression system and take out the fuel cell. I don't think the out-dated fire system will be missed and the fuel cell is huge, like something you would need to run the Dakar Rally. I figure after lunch I can start getting the rest of the sheet metal gone and hopefully if I'm real lucky I can pack up and get the shocks off to Elephant Racing for their haircuts. After that I'm out of time, hitting the road again on Monday, picking up a very cool and rare 356, so rare I've never had one like it before.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 6 2017, 06:45 PM

Ran out of day and the fire system took some slow brain work to figure out how to get it out. It was still fully pressurized so I didn't want a face full of Halon. It came out in one piece, I'll take it to Hershey this year to see if anyone can't live without it. Also got the massive fuel cell. The rest of the day was taken up with measurements, figuring out where to trim the front and how much can be saved. When I chopped the test body I wasn't really thinking about how much to leave since I just wanted to see if the body would fit. Now that I want to save as much of the original body as possible and want to save as much structure as I can the cuts are getting much more deliberate and surgical.

Hopefully I can make more time next week.


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Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 7 2017, 09:58 AM

Most of us here are probably holding our tongues on what we think about what you did to this historic IMSA car. I started out thinking that you could basically do whatever you wanted with your own car(s). After seeing the destruction, I've completely changed my mind.

I think this looks like a full on abortion. You could have cut apart ANY old 914 to make this mess, for that matter.

What you did to this historic car is a disgrace. The Porsche Gods will not bless this tragedy.

Go take a selfie.

Posted by: Cracker Jan 7 2017, 10:08 AM

What a shame that that the only thing left of a historic race car is a POS. I tried (along with others I am sure) to make Adam "more than whole" in an attempt to save this race car (and restore it to its former glory) from the demolition we now see unfolding before our eyes. He was more interested in doubling his purchase price (yada, yada, yada)...it was both his RIGHT and his decision to move forward. It was also a horrible decision on his part to actually follow-through with the "transformation to nothing" as we can all clearly now see (and already knew). Nothing has been gained by doing this but everything has been lost...

The results I see here are utterly abysmal. So sad. No holding back my tongue here...

Tony

PS: The "hacksaw" and "Sawsall" pictures Adam posted couldn't be more accurate - a true clusterfuck of monumental proportions!

QUOTE(Reverend Troublemaker @ Jul 29 2016, 02:58 PM) *

Adam - So after all that crap and alternative solutions being sought, you've ended up cutting the IMSA car to bits? Really? Wow.

Tony

Posted by: sb914 Jan 7 2017, 10:37 AM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Jan 7 2017, 07:58 AM) *

Most of us here probably are holding our tongues on what we think about what you did to this historic IMSA car. I started out thinking that you could basically do whatever you wanted with your own car(s). After seeing the destruction, I've completely changed my mind.

I think this looks like a full on abortion. You could have cut apart ANY old 914 to make this mess for that matter.

What you did to this historic car is a disgrace. The Porsche Gods will not bless this tragedy.

Go take a selfie.

agree.gif with ALL the resources he has,Could have used any old beater.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 7 2017, 12:01 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 7 2017, 08:08 AM) *

What a shame that that the only thing left of a historic race car is a POS. I tried (along with others I am sure) to make Adam "more than whole" in an attempt to save this race car (and restore it to its former glory) from the demolition we now see unfolding before our eyes. He was more interested in doubling his purchase price (yada, yada, yada)...it was both his RIGHT and his decision to move forward. It was also a horrible decision on his part to actually follow-through with the "transformation to nothing" as we can all clearly now see (and already knew). Nothing has been gained by doing this but everything has been lost...

The results I see here are utterly abysmal. So sad. No holding back my tongue here...

Tony

PS: The "hacksaw" and "Sawsall" pictures Adam posted couldn't be more accurate - a true clusterfuck of monumental proportions!

QUOTE(Reverend Troublemaker @ Jul 29 2016, 02:58 PM) *

Adam - So after all that crap and alternative solutions being sought, you've ended up cutting the IMSA car to bits? Really? Wow.

Tony



Tony, I guess I'll just keep repeating myself,

Tony-
I have to say I'm impressed, in a world where people never live up to their nick-names, but you do!
Ok, so I'll bite.
When a few people expressed outrage at my plan for the car I offered anyone who was interested two choices.
1. Trade me their six conversion.
2. Buy mine for enough for me to replace it.

No one offered to trade me a running and driving car. No one offered to buy my car for enough to replace it. And the last chance was one person expressed interest in it and asked for a few alternatives on how to buy it. I gave him 3 which I felt were very reasonable. This was a solution worked out behind the scenes on this board. I presented the choices and never heard anything back. Months went by before I actually started cutting on the car.
So, Tony, what would you have done? Lost thousands of dollars? Given the car away? No one with a comparable car wanted to trade, or take a hit on their car. Before I bought this one I tried to buy several from people on this board and all the cars I was offered were not finished projects that were all double what I paid for this car. So if no one in the 914 World wants to take a hit, why should I?

Now can we get back to my build now, I don't think there is really anything else to be said, the car has been chopped and on it's way into becoming the 904. I have reached the point of no return, so moving forward, if you don't agree with this project, don't click on it, it's really that simple.

As far as a selfie, took this one yesterday.


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Posted by: Cracker Jan 7 2017, 12:21 PM

Your explanation is not entirely true...you claimed to have paid 15k for the race car. The value you saw in the car was basically an engine - the chassis (at least what you are doing to one) modification (ie. destruction) could have been had for nearly nothing. The investment in getting that race car restored as new would have been immense. Bottom line: I do not embrace your vision for this car; therefore, I wouldn't want ANY 914 chassis to undergo such experimental transformation. A running six, trans and rolling chassis could have easily been sourced for the amount that I offered you. Its not that I don't hear you Adam...its that what I hear is F.O.S.!

I am certainly not the most gifted builder out there - probably ranked somewhere in the "thousands" if there even were such a list. However, I do know what is achievable when modifying a 914 - and maintaining the integrity of a teener. Contrary to to all the crap that finds me within this community - lifting a 914 up and representing the model to the best of my abilities to enthusiasts across the hobby-world is important to me. People here are being way to nice...your decision to destroy this car for your weird reasons are simply ridiculous (along with those pictures of yourself)!

Tony

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 7 2017, 01:09 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 7 2017, 10:21 AM) *

Your explanation is not entirely true...you claimed to have paid 15k for the race car. The value you saw in the car was basically an engine - the chassis (at least what you are doing to one) modification (ie. destruction) could have been had for nearly nothing. The investment in getting that race car restored as new would have been immense. Bottom line: I do not embrace your vision for this car; therefore, I wouldn't want ANY 914 chassis to undergo such experimental transformation. A running six, trans and rolling chassis could have easily been sourced for the amount that I offered you. Its not that I don't hear you Adam...its that what I hear is F.O.S.!

I am certainly not the most gifted builder out there - probably ranked somewhere in the "thousands" if there even were such a list. However, I do know what is achievable when modifying a 914 - and maintaining the integrity of a teener. Contrary to to all the crap that finds me within this community - lifting a 914 up and representing the model to the best of my abilities to enthusiasts across the hobby-world is important to me. People here are being way to nice...your decision to destroy this car for your weird reasons are simply ridiculous (along with those pictures of yourself)!

Tony

That's now the 2nd falsehood you have spouted and I think I need it to clear up some "facts".
You said, "He was more interested in doubling his purchase price (yada, yada, yada)" and " A running six, trans and rolling chassis could have easily been sourced for the amount that I offered you. Its not that I don't hear you Adam...its that what I hear is F.O.S.!"
That is disingenuous. There was no profit motive in my decision making, I'm sure I will lost many thousands on this project. All I ever wanted was a running and driving 914/6. No one on this board wanted to sell me one for any less than $30,000-35,000. I finally found this one on ebay, where it had been languishing for years, as well as being on the market on and off since 2007. It was $15,000 so I bought it. Once people wanted to save the car as it was I said I would gladly trade for a running and driving six. Your final offer was $21,000, which would have left me at least $10,000 short in finding another comparable car. You guys could have banded together and bought out one of your cars and traded it, or used your 914 connections to find a running six and traded it. Nope, everyone just wants to throw rocks at me, but doesn't actually want to do anything. Why should I lose $10,000 to make you happy? People came out of the woodwork and acted like I swiped this from under everyone's noses and then decided to "destroy" it in my evil plot. I get accused of "swiping" cars a lot, I moved over a million dollars last year in "found" Porsches but this car was not such a case, I bought it on ebay, the world's marketplace and then didn't cut on the car for over a year to leave all the concerned parties a chance to "save" the car if you wanted to. Well, the year came and went and I finally decided to move on with my project.
So I'm not F.O.S which I'm assuming is shiznit, right? I looked for over two years for a car that was affordable, there was nothing, and I'm good at finding Porsches, better than most. Maybe, Tony, you should have upped your offer to $30,000 and you could have taken the $10,000 hit if it's so easy to do!

Posted by: johnhora Jan 7 2017, 01:37 PM

Adam....you evil scientist you...ha ha...just love threads like this.....all this beating up the man for doing what he want to do with his own toys and $$$....keep working at making this thing work....as you/we all know when starting down this path there's a lot more work in making a conversion project complete....keep at it and post the pics....John

Posted by: Cracker Jan 7 2017, 01:42 PM

Adam: Just for the record...I don't believe you are a bad guy - a bit goofy maybe. Your decision making, however, verifiably leaves allot (like everything) to be desired! Your actions have invalidated any argument you try to present to this group = full of s _ _ t! A sound replacement package could have been sourced for the amount I offered you - period. You say no; I say yes. I did not WANT a third race car in my stable - I needed that like I needed a hole in my head. I was simply trying to preserve, with some reason, a fairly special 914. My only motivation was to save the damn car...it appears your motivation was to destroy one. Congratulation - mission accomplished.

I'm done with this and with you...

Tony

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 7 2017, 01:46 PM

QUOTE(johnhora @ Jan 7 2017, 11:37 AM) *

Adam....you evil scientist you...ha ha...just love threads like this.....all this beating up the man for doing what he want to do with his own toys and $$$....keep working at making this thing work....as you/we all know when starting down this path there's a lot more work in making a conversion project complete....keep at it and post the pics....John

Thanks John!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 7 2017, 02:01 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 7 2017, 11:42 AM) *

Adam: Just for the record...I don't believe you are a bad guy - a bit goofy maybe. Your decision making, however, verifiably leaves allot (like everything) to be desired! Your actions have invalidated any argument you try to present to this group = full of s _ _ t! A sound replacement package could have been sourced for the amount I offered you - period. You say no; I say yes. I did not WANT a third race car in my stable - I needed that like I needed a hole in my head. I was simply trying to preserve, with some reason, a fairly special 914. My only motivation was to save the damn car...it appears your motivation was to destroy one. Congratulation - mission accomplished.

I'm done with this and with you...

Tony


If it was so easy, why didn't you get it together and trade it for my car? I didn't touch cut on the car for a year!
You didn't want to save this car beyond throwing me an unacceptable offer, and then trashing me as full of shiznit and weird. I can honestly say that I looked everywhere to find another car that was comparable to this one, and in this market it just isn't there. I looked on this board, ebay, samba, Pelican, craigslist, my black book of contacts, I then went to known builders and re-seller's of 914's like Brad Mayeur and John Forbes and asked them and nothing. You make it sound so easy to source a running and driving six conversion, well maybe you should have shown me how easy it was!

Posted by: bandjoey Jan 7 2017, 06:44 PM

Tony. Get a life. If you need the thrill just. Read page one over and over and over and stay off the current page. headbang.gif

Get a life and let's get on with the build.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 7 2017, 08:28 PM

.....there's a thread on the 'VW Vortex' called "doing it wrong".....
it's hilarious

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 7 2017, 09:06 PM



This is probably up further on your post but I'll ask anyway... Why did you need a real 6 if you were going to modify it anyway? If it's yours, I think you can do what you want with it but I'm missing the point of why it had to be an original six... popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 7 2017, 09:26 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 7 2017, 08:08 AM) *

What a shame that that the only thing left of a historic race car is a POS. I tried (along with others I am sure) to make Adam "more than whole" in an attempt to save this race car (and restore it to its former glory) from the demolition we now see unfolding before our eyes. He was more interested in doubling his purchase price (yada, yada, yada)...it was both his RIGHT and his decision to move forward. It was also a horrible decision on his part to actually follow-through with the "transformation to nothing" as we can all clearly now see (and already knew). Nothing has been gained by doing this but everything has been lost...

The results I see here are utterly abysmal. So sad. No holding back my tongue here...

Tony

PS: The "hacksaw" and "Sawsall" pictures Adam posted couldn't be more accurate - a true clusterfuck of monumental proportions!

You're not the only one that thinks this was the wrong chassis to work with, but this is how it turned out and I've made peace with it, because I put in a lot of effort talking to publicly interested parties into trying to build a -6 with his drivetrain, and no one committed, so it didn't happen.
What is done is done, let the man have his build thread.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 7 2017, 10:27 PM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Jan 7 2017, 07:06 PM) *

This is probably up further on your post but I'll ask anyway... Why did you need a real 6 if you were going to modify it anyway? If it's yours, I think you can do what you want with it but I'm missing the point of why it had to be an original six... popcorn[1].gif

The car is not an original six, the VIN starts with a 4. Also of note and an ironic one is that while some seem to put great reverence in the IMSA history and provenance, the builder of the car had none. When I talked to Bob he had no love for the car, basically said it was a loser that they ran for one year and cut it loose.

Posted by: bretth Jan 7 2017, 10:55 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 7 2017, 02:42 PM) *

I'm done with this and with you...

Tony


Finally, enough whining, crying and getting offended over what someone does with their own car. It is a car not a religious artifact. There is so many real problems in this world that don't get even a fraction of the attention that the naysayers are wasting energy on here. Could someone clean out the crap posts that have nothing valuable to add to this thread?

Posted by: carr914 Jan 8 2017, 07:23 AM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Jan 7 2017, 10:58 AM) *

Most of us here are probably holding our tongues on what we think about what you did to this historic IMSA car. I started out thinking that you could basically do whatever you wanted with your own car(s). After seeing the destruction, I've completely changed my mind.

I think this looks like a full on abortion. You could have cut apart ANY old 914 to make this mess, for that matter.

What you did to this historic car is a disgrace. The Porsche Gods will not bless this tragedy.



agree.gif

If U-O had Any talent, I might give him some slack, but he FUBAR'd a car he could have made money on. What a Muldoon!

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 8 2017, 10:32 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Jan 8 2017, 08:23 AM) *

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Jan 7 2017, 10:58 AM) *

Most of us here are probably holding our tongues on what we think about what you did to this historic IMSA car. I started out thinking that you could basically do whatever you wanted with your own car(s). After seeing the destruction, I've completely changed my mind.

I think this looks like a full on abortion. You could have cut apart ANY old 914 to make this mess, for that matter.

What you did to this historic car is a disgrace. The Porsche Gods will not bless this tragedy.



agree.gif

If U-O had Any talent, I might give him some slack, but he FUBAR'd a car he could have made money on. What a Muldoon!


Hey TC
For a 'builder' who's a merchant first, it's a mistake.
Aside from that, any 914 chassis under that body is a poor choice, have you noticed the rear track ?
Vintage racing and restoration of cars with history has never been more popular.
What a waste.
When beautiful things are done praise is given freely.
When you step onto the stage you might be greeted with rotten tomatoes.
IMHO
Rory

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 8 2017, 11:08 AM

Cant be unseen,, Cant be undone,,
all we can do is pray, 914904 driving.gif flag.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 8 2017, 11:45 AM

Ok, on some level I have to agree, race cars with winning provenance do command a premium in today's market. That's why when I pulled this A coupe out of the mud and the owner came over and casually mentioned, "I won Daytona in that car." I took notice and will restore this car, I've also done some good research on it and even found original 8mm footage of the car running at Courtland. That car won a known race with a known driver, Jim Watson, yes that's him in his Spyder getting a trophy from Sterling Moss, that's racing provenance!
But while this 914 ran in IMSA I can only find one race by Dave Bottom where he came in 12th. According to Bob Garretson it wasn't a winner, from there it got traded around and last ran in SCCA in the Ozark region where it did well at first but got progressively more obsolete in the GT3 class. Had it been the first 914-6 that Bob built that Maas won the IMSA championship with then I think you could find someone who would restore it and pay good money for it. This car is not that car.
Had this car had any value as a race car it would not have taken almost a decade to sell it. It's also been seen on this site for 2 years now, almost 50,000 clicks on the car, as well as a thread on the 356 Registry website and another thread on the Early 911S Registry website, so if there was someone who wanted to save this car because of it valuable historical provenance, that person would have stepped up by now. People covet the winners in life and that goes for cars too. This car has an interesting history but not a very valuable one. Automotive Archeoloigists was trying to sell this car around 2007 and had all the history out there for everyone to see, no takers. The guy I bought it from had bought it from them around 2011 to use as a DE car, but all it ever did was sit in his backyard, he never drove it. It took him almost a year to sell it, to me. It was at the end of the line, next stop was harvesting the pieces. I saved it from that and the chassis will live on, and trust me once I'm finished the car will be worth way more than just about any 4 cylinder 914. Everyone laughed when I was building Da Spoodster, said it was a waste of time, I didn't know what I was doing, etc, and guess what, before I could even finish it a guy came forward and had to have it and paid $50,000 for it not running, not even finished. So while there seems to be a long line of arm chair quarterbacks telling me what a fool I am, they should probably go start a support group with all the guys who told me my last build was a fool's errand and they can all take an adventure to Australia and check out my last build in a private collection, oh, and that same collector is already asking about buying this car, which I don't plan on selling once it's finished, but he keeps asking. He even came to my shop to look at it and was impressed with the vision.
In the end I'm going to go with my gut that this will be a cool car, this is the same gut that has sold millions $$$ in vintage Porsches, I tend to know when something has value and when it's just an interesting footnote. Now the Daytona A, that will have value when finished as a historical race car. Let me know how the support group shapes up.


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Posted by: Steve Jan 8 2017, 11:51 AM

Yep it's ugly as sin under the skirt. Even after it's finished, I would never let anyone see what's underneath. Curious if Beck would of sold just the chassis. That would of been a nobrainer versus this abomination.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 8 2017, 11:54 AM

QUOTE(Steve @ Jan 8 2017, 09:51 AM) *

Yep it's ugly as sin under the skirt. Even after it's finished, I would never let anyone see what's underneath. Curious if Beck would of sold just the chassis. That would of been a nobrainer versus this abomination.

Beck will only sell you the complete roller, no body's and no chassis, and then it's just a kit car, not a Porsche. Also, they want $50,000-60,000 for the roller. I've talked to Chuck Beck about this project, he initially thought about using a 914 but the challenges of things like the shock towers made him decide to make his own chassis. But I am consulting with the Hines family who builds the 904 and has taken over most of the Beck operation.

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Jan 8 2017, 12:07 PM

It doesn't matter what you say there those of us on here that feel you screwed up and shouldn't whacked this car. I hope you prove us wrong, but I have my doubts.

Build your car, but you will need some thick skin to get past us nay sayers. You post on a open forum, on a 914 enthusiasts website, don't expect everyone to be happy. You could have taken ALL the go fast good stuff off and used it on another chassis to cut up. Slap some 4 lug stuff on the racecar chassis and move it along. All that time and money spent on "tunning" the engine and chassis to only whack it down to this was a waste.

If you are building this for you, great. If you are building with thoughts of selling down the road for a profit then, well good luck.


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 8 2017, 12:35 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Jan 8 2017, 10:07 AM) *

It doesn't matter what you say there those of us on here that feel you screwed up and shouldn't whacked this car. I hope you prove us wrong, but I have my doubts.

Build your car, but you will need some thick skin to get past us nay sayers. You post on a open forum, on a 914 enthusiasts website, don't expect everyone to be happy. You could have taken ALL the go fast good stuff off and used it on another chassis to cut up. Slap some 4 lug stuff on the racecar chassis and move it along. All that time and money spent on "tunning" the engine and chassis to only whack it down to this was a waste.

If you are building this for you, great. If you are building with thoughts of selling down the road for a profit then, well good luck.

You make it sound so easy, just swap everything over, like legos. It's a little more complicated than that. But I do think we now have a name for the support group, we can call it the Nay Sayers!
I'm building this car for me, but then I was building the last one for me, I took it to one show, and the calls starting coming in. But what do I know, I just built a car that people wanted to buy, just like I find cars that people want to buy, all day every day, but please armchair quaterback away, I'll be on the road loading a super duper rare 356, hooking up the trailer in a few hours.
As far as having a thick skin, mine is thicker than most, years of selling ad space to NYC fashion houses will thicken it up like leather, now that's a tough crowd. If you read back through the several dozen pages of this thread the only time I've lost my cool with people is when they start making personal attacks on me or on cars I've built, other than that I have politely and patiently argued my vision of the car I am building, even calmly repeating myself over and over sometimes.

Posted by: Bgyglfr Jan 8 2017, 12:45 PM

I'm not going to jump into the argument about the donor car. That's really over and done now. The car is cut up. I will share some advice. Based on the quality of the spoodester and what we've seen so far, I would suggest taking lots of time and doing this one right. A quality job is the only thing that will close this project/thread with a positive ending. The OP is a popular guy in the 356 world as a parts reseller and probably got some slack on the spoodster because of that. That said, if he wants to be known as a quality restorer in any way, he better post some quality work with nice fit and finish when it's done. It will obviously be scrutinized here. If he doesn't care what people think, let the thread die and build it in private.

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Jan 8 2017, 01:14 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 8 2017, 12:35 PM) *

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Jan 8 2017, 10:07 AM) *

It doesn't matter what you say there those of us on here that feel you screwed up and shouldn't whacked this car. I hope you prove us wrong, but I have my doubts.

Build your car, but you will need some thick skin to get past us nay sayers. You post on a open forum, on a 914 enthusiasts website, don't expect everyone to be happy. You could have taken ALL the go fast good stuff off and used it on another chassis to cut up. Slap some 4 lug stuff on the racecar chassis and move it along. All that time and money spent on "tunning" the engine and chassis to only whack it down to this was a waste.

If you are building this for you, great. If you are building with thoughts of selling down the road for a profit then, well good luck.

You make it sound so easy, just swap everything over, like legos. It's a little more complicated than that. But I do think we now have a name for the support group, we can call it the Nay Sayers!


Really, you can't swap a whole 5 lug suspension and swap over to another chassis in a afternoon with the shop you have????? As for the /6 stuff you have to remove it all anyway (except for the engine mount) to do a quality build. So what's your point? It's no rocket science.

QUOTE
I'm not going to jump into the argument about the donor car. That's really over and done now. The car is cut up. I will share some advice. Based on the quality of the spoodester and what we've seen so far, I would suggest taking lots of time and doing this one right. A quality job is the only thing that will close this project/thread with a positive ending. The OP is a popular guy in the 356 world as a parts reseller and probably got some slack on the spoodster because of that. That said, if he wants to be known as a quality restorer in any way, he better post some quality work with nice fit and finish when it's done. It will obviously be scrutinized here. If he doesn't care what people think, let the thread die and build it in private.


agree.gif

Hope you prove us Nay Sayers wrong. I won't hold my breath.


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 8 2017, 01:28 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Jan 8 2017, 11:14 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 8 2017, 12:35 PM) *

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Jan 8 2017, 10:07 AM) *

It doesn't matter what you say there those of us on here that feel you screwed up and shouldn't whacked this car. I hope you prove us wrong, but I have my doubts.

Build your car, but you will need some thick skin to get past us nay sayers. You post on a open forum, on a 914 enthusiasts website, don't expect everyone to be happy. You could have taken ALL the go fast good stuff off and used it on another chassis to cut up. Slap some 4 lug stuff on the racecar chassis and move it along. All that time and money spent on "tunning" the engine and chassis to only whack it down to this was a waste.

If you are building this for you, great. If you are building with thoughts of selling down the road for a profit then, well good luck.

You make it sound so easy, just swap everything over, like legos. It's a little more complicated than that. But I do think we now have a name for the support group, we can call it the Nay Sayers!


Really, you can't swap a whole 5 lug suspension and swap over to another chassis in a afternoon with the shop you have????? As for the /6 stuff you have to remove it all anyway (except for the engine mount) to do a quality build. So what's your point? It's no rocket science.

QUOTE
I'm not going to jump into the argument about the donor car. That's really over and done now. The car is cut up. I will share some advice. Based on the quality of the spoodester and what we've seen so far, I would suggest taking lots of time and doing this one right. A quality job is the only thing that will close this project/thread with a positive ending. The OP is a popular guy in the 356 world as a parts reseller and probably got some slack on the spoodster because of that. That said, if he wants to be known as a quality restorer in any way, he better post some quality work with nice fit and finish when it's done. It will obviously be scrutinized here. If he doesn't care what people think, let the thread die and build it in private.


agree.gif

Hope you prove us Nay Sayers wrong. I won't hold my breath.


Please don't hold your breath, but the next time I need "easy" mechanical work done you can come down and show me how easy it is. I'm not real good with mechanical, I'm way better at finding cars and selling them. So when work comes up I have two choices, let my shop guy do the work, but then he isn't working on anything else and making me any money or I can pay my mechanic at his shop, and Porsche mechanics aren't cheap. I haven't even had time to work on this car for the last 4 months and you want to add more work to my project. Like I said, everyone has an armchair.

Posted by: carr914 Jan 8 2017, 01:48 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 8 2017, 02:28 PM) *
I'm not real good with mechanical


It Shows!

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 8 2017, 01:50 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 8 2017, 10:35 AM) *

You make it sound so easy, just swap everything over, like legos.

I had Legos, maybe that why I'm a mechanic now and know it's easy biggrin.gif

If I lived closer I would offer to trade work for a 356 body. I've got an itch to do an Outlaw and put my big t4 to use. I'm sure I'd get some crap for hammering the fenders out to fit 7" cookies hissyfit.gif

Point is, one man's Porsche is another man's glorified VW that could use improvement.

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 8 2017, 01:53 PM

QUOTE(Bgyglfr @ Jan 8 2017, 11:45 AM) *

If he doesn't care what people think, let the thread die and build it in private.



Bingo

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 8 2017, 02:26 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Jan 8 2017, 10:08 AM) *

Cant be unseen,, Cant be undone,,
all we can do is pray, 914904 driving.gif flag.gif


Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 8 2017, 04:03 PM

C'mon guys, give it a break. Has anyone counted how many of these 30 pages are actually about the build and how many about this idiotic banter?

The car was available for a long time, you snooze you loose. Adam doesn't appear to care what all you Nay Sayers think and neither do those of us interested in the build.

Cool project Adam, can't wait to see the results. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 8 2017, 04:34 PM

I spend a lot of time on Porsche forums, a result of being in the business I guess and they all have a common theme. There are about a dozen guys who dominate the conversation and everyone else is supposed to get in line. Such is the case here, I'm now being urged to end my thread because a few people don't like it, or because I feel the need to defend my decisions on my car to a few people. Well, the problem for you dozen or so guys is there have been at least as many guys posting on here who do like the build, but I guess they aren't as loud or just plain aren't as mean.
I will say this again, there are no surprises to be had in this thread. I'm cutting up an old race car to build a dream car. No I am not a professional body man, but I do know a lot about Porsches. I'm also not a mechanic, I've never been great at it and I don't enjoy it so I stopped trying to get good several years ago. I'm a firm believer in going with what your good at and enjoy. I enjoy building cars and judging by the fact that my last car sold before I could even finish it, other people like my work. I judge it by that fact, not the opinion of a few guys on a forum.
So please if you don't like the build, the idea, the vision, or me, just don't click on the thread, because there are a lot of guys who want to see how this build plays out and I would much rather converse with them, then argue with a few loud guys who have degenerated the conversation to trashing my skills and abilities. If it was up to you guys I should probably just go and buy a new Beck and enjoy it but where is the fun in that?

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 8 2017, 05:14 PM

Odd that you would mention dominating the conversation on other sites.
Not another word from me.... on one condition.
No more self portraits.

Posted by: My 914 Jan 8 2017, 07:24 PM

Its your car and your thread. Do what you want with both. Posts are just comments and opinions. They will only affect you if you allow them to.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 8 2017, 07:37 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jan 8 2017, 11:50 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 8 2017, 10:35 AM) *

You make it sound so easy, just swap everything over, like legos.

I had Legos, maybe that why I'm a mechanic now and know it's easy biggrin.gif

If I lived closer I would offer to trade work for a 356 body. I've got an itch to do an Outlaw and put my big t4 to use. I'm sure I'd get some crap for hammering the fenders out to fit 7" cookies hissyfit.gif

Point is, one man's Porsche is another man's glorified VW that could use improvement.


We have a few of those, swing by anytime.


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Posted by: jmitro Jan 8 2017, 07:38 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 8 2017, 04:34 PM) *

So please if you don't like the build, the idea, the vision, or me, just don't click on the thread, because there are a lot of guys who want to see how this build plays out and I would much rather converse with them, then argue with a few loud guys who have degenerated the conversation to trashing my skills and abilities.



agreed. nobody really cares what they say except for them.

carry on with the build.... beerchug.gif

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 8 2017, 09:48 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 8 2017, 05:37 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Jan 8 2017, 11:50 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 8 2017, 10:35 AM) *

You make it sound so easy, just swap everything over, like legos.

I had Legos, maybe that why I'm a mechanic now and know it's easy biggrin.gif

If I lived closer I would offer to trade work for a 356 body. I've got an itch to do an Outlaw and put my big t4 to use. I'm sure I'd get some crap for hammering the fenders out to fit 7" cookies hissyfit.gif

Point is, one man's Porsche is another man's glorified VW that could use improvement.


We have a few of those, swing by anytime.

It's like going to the pumpkin patch biggrin.gif

Eenie meenie miney moes,
picking the one with the fewest holes....

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 8 2017, 10:12 PM

BACK TO THE BUILD!! sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: bretth Jan 9 2017, 12:06 AM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Jan 8 2017, 11:12 PM) *

BACK TO THE BUILD!! sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif popcorn[1].gif

Hear! Hear! And if ever need a hand let me know, food included. welder.gif jsharp.gif

Brett

Posted by: My 914 Jan 9 2017, 08:58 AM

agree as well. how about a picture?

Posted by: Bgyglfr Jan 9 2017, 01:22 PM

Hey Adam, I have had a few encounters with Unobtanium and have yet to work with you so I'm going to offer this with no expectations. Everyone here is going through a learning process on these cars. Some just are farther along than others. Everyone has been or will be where you are at some point. I started my learning 10+ years ago on early 911s. I don't know how much experience you have on the body side or how long you've been at it (building the cars, we know you have been in the business a long time) but I will offfer any support I can to help you make this come out with a quality result. Feel free to PM me if you want someone to bounce ideas off of. I'm not promising that I will be of great help nor am I claiming to be the best or even necessarily a better fabricator than you. I just know that sometimes it's nice to have someone who understands these cars to offer another perspective than the ones you are already getting. I would like to see this project come out well. If I can help, great, if not, that's cool too.

Posted by: billh1963 Jan 9 2017, 01:36 PM

We tell people on this site all the time, "It's your car...do what you want".

This holds true more than ever. 914's aren't rare. And, in the world of rare cars, neither are 914-6's.

Do what you want. Just do it right! driving.gif


Posted by: andrewb Jan 9 2017, 02:43 PM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Jan 9 2017, 12:03 AM) *

C'mon guys, give it a break. Has anyone counted how many of these 30 pages are actually about the build and how many about this idiotic banter?

The car was available for a long time, you snooze you loose. Adam doesn't appear to care what all you Nay Sayers think and neither do those of us interested in the build.

Cool project Adam, can't wait to see the results. beerchug.gif

agree.gif

Posted by: zipedadoo Jan 9 2017, 06:03 PM

agree.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 10 2017, 08:29 PM

Thanks everybody for all the support and offers of help. Fun day today and a first for Unobtanium, a 1962 Twin Grill Roadster Super 90, out of the 249 Twin Grills made only 58 came with the S90 motor, so this makes the car the rarest of the rarest 356. Couldn't beat the million dollar view where it was stashed either, a fun day!


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Posted by: zambezi Jan 10 2017, 10:51 PM

I think an america roadster would be rarer. The steel one being the most rare.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 10 2017, 10:59 PM

QUOTE(zambezi @ Jan 10 2017, 08:51 PM) *

I think an america roadster would be rarer. The steel one being the most rare.

You're right about that, but being a one off it doesn't really compare to production cars, but there was a nice article written about 12371, AKA The Steel One, in Excellence a few years back, I have a few extra copies if anyone needs one.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 12 2017, 03:00 PM

Didn't get as much as I had hoped done today but I did make some progress. First I removed the front struts so I can send those and the rears off to Elephant Racing to get them all shortened. Once I got that done I started trimming the fenders down to accept the new body. I will probably have to do more fine trimming once I get the body closer but this was a start. I was hoping to get both fenders done and the front cowl/dash cut out, but like Mick Jaggers says, "time waits for no one, no favors has he, time waits for no one, and he won't wait for me."
The day is done.


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Posted by: jd74914 Jan 12 2017, 03:25 PM

Adam-if you wouldn't mind measuring, about how long is that sway bar arm?

Is Elephant shortening the Bilstein or swapping to a Koni 8610/11 of something with a shorter body?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 12 2017, 04:08 PM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Jan 12 2017, 01:25 PM) *

Adam-if you wouldn't mind measuring, about how long is that sway bar arm?

Is Elephant shortening the Bilstein or swapping to a Koni 8610/11 of something with a shorter body?


You mean the up and down arm?
They are modifying the existing bilsteins. I'm not sure what all they are doing. Basically he told me 2" would be pretty easy, 3" would be tricky, they can do it but don't complain about the bill. happy11.gif

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 12 2017, 04:41 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 12 2017, 05:08 PM) *

You mean the up and down arm?
They are modifying the existing bilsteins. I'm not sure what all they are doing. Basically he told me 2" would be pretty easy, 3" would be tricky, they can do it but don't complain about the bill. happy11.gif



I think so? I marked it on this picture.

hahaha Interested to see what they come back with!

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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 19 2017, 06:44 PM

Didn't get anything done this week on the 904 project, had to jump back to the other one, the aluminum 550 build. Took lots of measurements off of 0054, and drooled a lot. I did get the suspension shipped out to Elephant Racing and strategized with them on everything we can do to get the shocks shorter including moving the placement on the strut.
The aluminum 550 isn't completely off topic, I'm using a huge chunk of 914 for that one too, but that's a couple of years down the road. First the body has to get built.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 26 2017, 05:50 PM

I was only to get a half day in today, had to leave early for a daughter orthodontist appointment, but tomorrow I will be alone at the shop to I can keep the momentum going. I was able to cut away the top of the cowl and the hinge area, ran out of time on the steering column area, going to leave as much of that as I can because I don't know how much I will need and where everything will align with the new dash.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 27 2017, 01:07 PM

Ok, today was dramatic, starting to take shape. The front nose is right where I need it. I will have to relocate the oil cooler from where it was on the 914. But I was able to retain 914 wheel wells so that is good news. This is getting fun again!


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Posted by: Mueller Jan 27 2017, 03:45 PM

Nice to see some progress!

Who made the panels on the alloy 550 body?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 27 2017, 09:59 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Jan 27 2017, 01:45 PM) *

Nice to see some progress!

Who made the panels on the alloy 550 body?

My friend spent the last 30 years restoring the 550, I think Joe Stafford did most of the body work. The panels for my build are being done by Wray at Pro Shaper
www.proshaper.com

You can check out the whole build here:
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38246

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 10 2017, 05:44 PM

Ok, back in action, real life takes ahold every now and then and we have to bring it back to the fun stuff. Elephant Racing got me the suspension back in good time. Not cheap but very nice work, so very happy with the results. One thing I learned a long time ago, the words cheap and Porsche don't flow well in a sentence, this project is no different.
I was having a hard time getting the shock to compress enough to bolt back up, so I borrowed some tools and brains from my mechanic Rick at Bavarian Rocket Science. We figured it out and I welded the lower tower in place enough to test fit the shock, and it fit, it took some wrestling but it fit. I ran out of day but it was a good day. Hopefully I can wrap up the rear end next week and then move to the front which is far more complicated and daunting.


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Posted by: sechszylinder Mar 11 2017, 09:40 AM

wow, the original donor car will be less and less ...

Don't get me wrong, but makes it sense to strip down that car, instead of building one from scratch ?
What will be the percentage of the remaining car ?
I mean there is not much left over ,or ?confused24.gif

BR

Benno

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 11 2017, 01:13 PM

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 07:40 AM) *

wow, the original donor car will be less and less ...

Don't get me wrong, but makes it sense to strip down that car, instead of building one from scratch ?
What will be the percentage of the remaining car ?
I mean there is not much left over ,or ?confused24.gif

BR

Benno


If it's built on a Porsche, it's still a Porsche, if it's build on tube framing from a jungle gym, it's not a Porsche.

Posted by: sechszylinder Mar 11 2017, 03:11 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 11 2017, 11:13 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 07:40 AM) *

wow, the original donor car will be less and less ...

Don't get me wrong, but makes it sense to strip down that car, instead of building one from scratch ?
What will be the percentage of the remaining car ?
I mean there is not much left over ,or ?confused24.gif

BR

Benno


If it's built on a Porsche, it's still a Porsche, if it's build on tube framing from a jungle gym, it's not a Porsche.


but your chassis features a Volkswagen VIN , right ? dry.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 11 2017, 03:21 PM

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 01:11 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 11 2017, 11:13 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 07:40 AM) *

wow, the original donor car will be less and less ...

Don't get me wrong, but makes it sense to strip down that car, instead of building one from scratch ?
What will be the percentage of the remaining car ?
I mean there is not much left over ,or ?confused24.gif

BR

Benno


If it's built on a Porsche, it's still a Porsche, if it's build on tube framing from a jungle gym, it's not a Porsche.


but your chassis features a Volkswagen VIN , right ? dry.gif


Wrong side of the ocean, over here, where most of them were sold, they were Porsches. When was the last time you saw an ad for a Volkswagen 914? Nice try though.

Posted by: r_towle Mar 11 2017, 03:32 PM

its not simple to get a VIN number for a kit car, and then it would be classified as a new car when the VIN is created, so all current emission standards would apply at that point, and safety, which is just crazy.

Doing it how he is doing it retains the Porsche year model and make....

Speaking of that, where is the VIN on the inner front fender? still there?
The one stamped into the body?

Rich

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Mar 11 2017, 07:00 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Mar 11 2017, 04:32 PM) *

Speaking of that, where is the VIN on the inner front fender? still there?
The one stamped into the body?

Rich


That's a good point. From what the consensus is here (I've already been yelled at for asking the question), if you cut that VIN out and move it anywhere else, you are committing a crime. Food for thought.

Posted by: carr914 Mar 11 2017, 09:08 PM

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 10:40 AM) *

wow, the original donor car will be less and less ...

Don't get me wrong, but makes it sense to strip down that car, instead of building one from scratch ?
What will be the percentage of the remaining car ?
I mean there is not much left over ,or ?confused24.gif

BR

Benno


because the builder is a Hack!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 11 2017, 10:39 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Mar 11 2017, 07:08 PM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 10:40 AM) *

wow, the original donor car will be less and less ...

Don't get me wrong, but makes it sense to strip down that car, instead of building one from scratch ?
What will be the percentage of the remaining car ?
I mean there is not much left over ,or ?confused24.gif

BR

Benno


because the builder is a Hack!


How cute, a tough guy...

Posted by: bretth Mar 11 2017, 11:34 PM

69,000 posts of constructive rhetoric no doubt.

Posted by: sechszylinder Mar 12 2017, 03:45 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 11 2017, 01:21 PM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 01:11 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 11 2017, 11:13 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 07:40 AM) *

wow, the original donor car will be less and less ...

Don't get me wrong, but makes it sense to strip down that car, instead of building one from scratch ?
What will be the percentage of the remaining car ?
I mean there is not much left over ,or ?confused24.gif

BR

Benno


If it's built on a Porsche, it's still a Porsche, if it's build on tube framing from a jungle gym, it's not a Porsche.


but your chassis features a Volkswagen VIN , right ? dry.gif


Wrong side of the ocean, over here, where most of them were sold, they were Porsches. When was the last time you saw an ad for a Volkswagen 914? Nice try though.


It does not depends on the ads I've seen or not, but a car with a 47... VIN is made by Volkswagen / Karmann. Thats the reason why original sixes are so pricey, they are made officially by Porsche.
So everything build upon a 47... chassis will be a Volkswagen or better VW-Porsche made in Germany by Volkswagen.
But what happens if you cut out the stamped in chassis number in the inner front fender, then it s not even a vw any more ...

Don't get me wrong, I only try to understand the idea behind that car. In an very old Vw&Porsche mag I've seen a similar build. That must have been an issue from 1987 or so. I will see if I find it
br
Benno

Posted by: carr914 Mar 12 2017, 05:36 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 11 2017, 11:39 PM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Mar 11 2017, 07:08 PM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 10:40 AM) *




because the builder is a Hack!


How cute, a tough guy...



Just stating the obvious. I try to stay from this dumpster fire thread, but I look in hoping that you doing something good, but it just keeps getting worse!

1. Buy a historic car
2. Intention to make something that has some appeal
3. Hack the living Shit out of the car attempting to make things fit
4. the Hacking was the direct result of no talent what so ever


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2017, 06:05 AM

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 12 2017, 01:45 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 11 2017, 01:21 PM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 01:11 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 11 2017, 11:13 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 07:40 AM) *

wow, the original donor car will be less and less ...

Don't get me wrong, but makes it sense to strip down that car, instead of building one from scratch ?
What will be the percentage of the remaining car ?
I mean there is not much left over ,or ?confused24.gif

BR

Benno


If it's built on a Porsche, it's still a Porsche, if it's build on tube framing from a jungle gym, it's not a Porsche.


but your chassis features a Volkswagen VIN , right ? dry.gif


Wrong side of the ocean, over here, where most of them were sold, they were Porsches. When was the last time you saw an ad for a Volkswagen 914? Nice try though.


It does not depends on the ads I've seen or not, but a car with a 47... VIN is made by Volkswagen / Karmann. Thats the reason why original sixes are so pricey, they are made officially by Porsche.
So everything build upon a 47... chassis will be a Volkswagen or better VW-Porsche made in Germany by Volkswagen.
But what happens if you cut out the stamped in chassis number in the inner front fender, then it s not even a vw any more ...

Don't get me wrong, I only try to understand the idea behind that car. In an very old Vw&Porsche mag I've seen a similar build. That must have been an issue from 1987 or so. I will see if I find it
br
Benno


As far as my overall philosophy behind the build, you will need to go back and read the other dozens of pages of this thread, I don't have it in me to go through that explanation again. But concerning your point of whether a Porsche is a Porsche depending on what coachbuilder built the body let's go back to the beginning. When Porsche could not handle production in 1948-1949 on the body shells they contracted with a number of other coachbuilders like Tatra and this tradition continued in 1952 with Heuer. When the Speedster was replaced in 1959 production of the Convertible D was shiifted to Drauz and later to D’Ieteren in Belgium. Then in 1960 they were expanding the line and contracted with aforementioned Karman Factory to build both the regular B T5 coupes as well as the Karmann Hardtops. The Karmann connection carried through all the way to the end of the 356 production and started again with the 912, ending in 1969. But since then Porsche has never really stopped using outside builders utilizing Valmet to build Boxsters and Caymans in Finland. I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that Porsche has a long history of using outside production to produce Porsches. My 60 Roadster was built by Drauz, is it any less Porsche? Or heaven forbid I would have kept 89032, it wasn't even built in Germany but in Belgium by D’Ieteren, it's not even German!!! The 914 was sold as a Porsche in the US market, which was Porsches biggest market. If you bought a 914 new it was a Porsche, when you registered it with the government it was a Porsche, years later if you go to sell it you advertise it as a Porsche. Yes there was a 914 which was far more robust in its mechanicals and was also sold as a Porsche 914-6, but if it's a 914 it's a Porsche, there is really no arguing that point and we are really splitting hairs if we start breaking down at what plant or factory your Porsche was built. I guess next time I take my Roadster out for a spin the other Porsche guys will shun me because mine was built at Drauz, so it's not reaaaalllllyyyy a Porsche. C'mon!




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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2017, 06:11 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Mar 12 2017, 03:36 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 11 2017, 11:39 PM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Mar 11 2017, 07:08 PM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 11 2017, 10:40 AM) *




because the builder is a Hack!


How cute, a tough guy...



Just stating the obvious. I try to stay from this dumpster fire thread, but I look in hoping that you doing something good, but it just keeps getting worse!

1. Buy a historic car
2. Intention to make something that has some appeal
3. Hack the living Shit out of the car attempting to make things fit
4. the Hacking was the direct result of no talent what so ever

Yet you can't stay away, even though you've been politely asked. Once again my "talent" has a proven track record. My last build sold for $50,000 before I could even finish it. How many 914's can you fit in your driveway in Tampa to get to that number before your neighbors start asking why you have 914's on your roof? So before I render an opinion on my own "talent" I'll defer to the market on whether I have any skills, and the market says I do. Which is probably why I've already had multiple offers to buy the latest build. But please continue to "try to stay away" and keep coming back for more. In the meantime I'll keep building my car. Tough guy...


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Posted by: carr914 Mar 12 2017, 06:50 AM

So you have talent to find an idiot to pony up $50,000 for what looks like another pile of stromberg.gif

I have sold 914-6s & Carrera RS's for more than that to people that are more than happy!

Not a tough guy, just stating Facts!

You can go back to your little world where you think you are something, but after seeing your abomination, I don't think you will ever sell anything to a member of this Board.

Posted by: bandjoey Mar 12 2017, 07:27 AM

I'd really like for this thread to be locked for everyone but the OP. It's a fun build. Read the other pages for your thrill of complaining but let's see this move on.

In other words, SHUT A U PIE HOLE.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2017, 09:23 AM

QUOTE(bandjoey @ Mar 12 2017, 05:27 AM) *

I'd really like for this thread to be locked for everyone but the OP. It's a fun build. Read the other pages for your thrill of complaining but let's see this move on.

In other words, SHUT A U PIE HOLE.

agree.gif
I wish guy's like this would just not click on the thread, I don't really understand why they do. I don't build cars to sell them. The last one I took to one show and a guy from Australia saw it and wanted to buy it, and he did. I sell plenty of Porsches, millions of $$$'s in them, but I build cars for fun. Remember that, fun? I thought it would also be fun to share the build and most of you guys agree with me.
So please to all you "facts" guys, please go away. As far as me thinking I'm something, once again I'll let the market speak to that, but if you need a reminder I'm more than happy to send you one of our posters for your garage, so you can remind yourself about what Adam can do, something few can say they've done in this Century...


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Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 12 2017, 11:02 AM

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 12 2017, 02:45 AM) *
It does not depends on the ads I've seen or not, but a car with a 47... VIN is made by Volkswagen / Karmann. Thats the reason why original sixes are so pricey, they are made officially by Porsche.


The reason that original sixes are so pricey is that they were built from the beginning with the six-cylinder motor in them. And there were only a few thousand of them built. And that all contributes to the "cachet" of them being more desirable--especially with the "all original" crowd. Which seems to be the crowd with the money.

Remember that all of the bodies were built at Karmann. The Six bodies were then shipped to Porsche to have all of the bits completed, while the Four bodies were kept at Karmann and completed there.


QUOTE
But what happens if you cut out the stamped in chassis number in the inner front fender, then it s not even a vw any more ...


At that point, I believe that what you have is technically scrap metal, or spare parts. Though your local laws certainly may have something to say about what exactly that is.

--DD

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 12 2017, 03:01 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Mar 12 2017, 09:02 AM) *
At that point, I believe that what you have is technically scrap metal, or spare parts. Though your local laws certainly may have something to say about what exactly that is.


I love it, scrap metal. If I had a dollar for every time someone saw something at my place or on my trailer and called it scrap metal. Keep selling them to me at scrap prices and I'll keep taking the abuse.


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Posted by: Garold Shaffer Mar 12 2017, 04:17 PM

QUOTE
I love it, scrap metal. If I had a dollar for every time someone saw something at my place or on my trailer and called it scrap metal. Keep selling them to me at scrap prices and I'll keep taking the abuse.


It looks like you cut out the vin on the right fender in order to fit that 904 nose, yes? Hope you kept it, If not you have scrap. No vin = no car. As for the rust you have in your yard, good for you. They all have vin tags yes? If so then not scrap.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 12 2017, 10:58 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 12 2017, 02:01 PM) *
Keep selling them to me at scrap prices and I'll keep taking the abuse.


My comment was about what you technically have when you have a car with no VIN. Legally you don't have a car; you have a collection of spare parts or you have scrap metal.

You may have very valuable scrap metal, but it's legally not a car at that point.

...Unless you're in a country where it still is a car, because many laws differ from country to country.

--DD

Posted by: Mueller Mar 12 2017, 11:10 PM

I'd be nervous doing that VIN moving and all that here in California, i could see a shop getting raided and chop shop charges being filed.

Hopefully this car never changes ownership and moves across state lines, would hate to see someone busted or harassed.


Posted by: Bruce Hinds Mar 19 2017, 09:14 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Mar 12 2017, 09:02 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Mar 12 2017, 02:45 AM) *
It does not depends on the ads I've seen or not, but a car with a 47... VIN is made by Volkswagen / Karmann. Thats the reason why original sixes are so pricey, they are made officially by Porsche.


The reason that original sixes are so pricey is that they were built from the beginning with the six-cylinder motor in them. And there were only a few thousand of them built. And that all contributes to the "cachet" of them being more desirable--especially with the "all original" crowd. Which seems to be the crowd with the money.

Remember that all of the bodies were built at Karmann. The Six bodies were then shipped to Porsche to have all of the bits completed, while the Four bodies were kept at Karmann and completed there.


QUOTE
But what happens if you cut out the stamped in chassis number in the inner front fender, then it s not even a vw any more ...


At that point, I believe that what you have is technically scrap metal, or spare parts. Though your local laws certainly may have something to say about what exactly that is.

--DD

Really, who cares!

If you don't like it move on please.

Posted by: john77 Mar 20 2017, 12:14 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 27 2017, 08:59 PM) *

QUOTE(Mueller @ Jan 27 2017, 01:45 PM) *

Nice to see some progress!

Who made the panels on the alloy 550 body?

My friend spent the last 30 years restoring the 550, I think Joe Stafford did most of the body work. The panels for my build are being done by Wray at Pro Shaper
www.proshaper.com

You can check out the whole build here:
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38246



I took Wray's class last March, his skill in amazing. Sounds like your 550 is in great hands.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 20 2017, 07:29 AM

QUOTE(john77 @ Mar 19 2017, 10:14 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 27 2017, 08:59 PM) *

QUOTE(Mueller @ Jan 27 2017, 01:45 PM) *

Nice to see some progress!

Who made the panels on the alloy 550 body?

My friend spent the last 30 years restoring the 550, I think Joe Stafford did most of the body work. The panels for my build are being done by Wray at Pro Shaper
www.proshaper.com

You can check out the whole build here:
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38246



I took Wray's class last March, his skill in amazing. Sounds like your 550 is in great hands.

Yeah, I don't think there is anything that Wray can't do, amazing!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 21 2017, 01:16 PM

Ok, back on it! I got side-tracked because I had a good window of time to get some major work on the 550 project. The rear clamshell came out nicely, but now I'm back on the 904. I got both rear shocks in place, with the new mounts welded in. Look for updates in the coming weeks.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 26 2017, 05:54 PM

Ok, the selling season is quickly ending so I took today and got some real progress made on the front shock towers.
We drilled out the spot welds on the test bed chassis so I have a complete shock tower rack to work with. The front struts from Elephant Racing fit very well and I got in under the wire, literally, see the wire! I ran out of day but at least I know where the shock towers need to go, now I can fab and weld them in. Look for weekly updates now that I have more time.


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Posted by: burton73 Oct 26 2017, 08:46 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 06:52 PM) *

QUOTE(MMW @ Sep 11 2015, 05:29 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:56 PM) *

only 29??? confused24.gif

1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...


I thought Big John just pushed them on. Isn't he the one who does all the heavy lifting?


I would never attempt to lift a 911 motor, or carry a gearbox on my shoulder...



How is this man that strong. In my early days lifting, a 911 Eng. was a ball breaker with 2 guys

Bob BAttached Image

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 26 2017, 08:55 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Oct 26 2017, 06:46 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 06:52 PM) *

QUOTE(MMW @ Sep 11 2015, 05:29 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 11 2015, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 8 2015, 06:56 PM) *

only 29??? confused24.gif

1 Truck done, two more to go, I'm getting too old for this...


I thought Big John just pushed them on. Isn't he the one who does all the heavy lifting?


I would never attempt to lift a 911 motor, or carry a gearbox on my shoulder...



How is this man that strong. In my early days lifting, a 911 Eng. was a ball breaker with 2 guys

Bob BAttached Image

I've never seen a limit to what Big John can do, I just hope and pray he never turns on my like a pit bull...

Posted by: Larmo63 Oct 26 2017, 09:56 PM

I now question WHY this build is on a 914 site?

Posted by: jd74914 Oct 26 2017, 10:01 PM

I'm surprised Elephant didn't recommend narrowing the distance between front shock towers and de-cambering the spindles to slightly improve suspension camber gain while you're in there.

That 550 rear looks great BTW!

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Oct 26 2017, 10:15 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Oct 26 2017, 07:56 PM) *

I now question WHY this build is on a 914 site?


Because it started with a 914. Many of us are interested in it and like following the progress. And . . .
The nice thing is that you don't have to follow it. beerchug.gif

Posted by: porschetub Oct 26 2017, 11:12 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Oct 27 2017, 04:56 PM) *

I now question WHY this build is on a 914 site?

have been thinking this myself but unsure what to comment.....heaps of ar15.gif ar15.gif poke.gif slap.gif , never done it before,least of all with a piece of string......
Anyway we will see.

Posted by: sechszylinder Oct 27 2017, 04:51 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 26 2017, 03:54 PM) *

Ok, the selling season is quickly ending so I took today and got some real progress made on the front shock towers.
We drilled out the spot welds on the test bed chassis so I have a complete shock tower rack to work with. The front struts from Elephant Racing fit very well and I got in under the wire, literally, see the wire! I ran out of day but at least I know where the shock towers need to go, now I can fab and weld them in. Look for weekly updates now that I have more time.


does this work, without fixing the poor leftover on a bench ?

I'm mean, the chassis looses more and more structural integrity while stripping down.
When welding the relocated suspension mount points I would expect to get lots of trouble regarding warping and other issues resulting in a twisted chassis confused24.gif

br

Benno

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 27 2017, 05:26 AM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Oct 26 2017, 07:56 PM) *

I now question WHY this build is on a 914 site?


Why did I put it on a 914 site, well, because it's a 914. Or why did I put it on this site? Well, I've been here since 2006, that's 8 years longer than you, so I think I have just as much right to post pics of my build as anyone else.

I'm going to ask this again, if you don't have anything constructive to contribute to the thread or if this thread bothers you to no end, please just don't click on it or post here. I've worked really hard to weed out the peanut gallery and keep this thread positive. Believe it or not, but a lot of people on this 914 site are very interested in this build.
Or if you have anything smart you want to say to me personally, save it for a face to face. I'm easy to find, I'm at every Porsche swap meet with a big nametag that says ADAM. If not, don't get tough on a keyboard.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 27 2017, 05:29 AM

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Oct 27 2017, 02:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 26 2017, 03:54 PM) *

Ok, the selling season is quickly ending so I took today and got some real progress made on the front shock towers.
We drilled out the spot welds on the test bed chassis so I have a complete shock tower rack to work with. The front struts from Elephant Racing fit very well and I got in under the wire, literally, see the wire! I ran out of day but at least I know where the shock towers need to go, now I can fab and weld them in. Look for weekly updates now that I have more time.


does this work, without fixing the poor leftover on a bench ?

I'm mean, the chassis looses more and more structural integrity while stripping down.
When welding the relocated suspension mount points I would expect to get lots of trouble regarding warping and other issues resulting in a twisted chassis confused24.gif

br

Benno


Any slight warpage will be more than fixable with the infinitely adjustable suspension. It's an old race car that's been modified to no end already.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 27 2017, 05:33 AM

QUOTE(porschetub @ Oct 26 2017, 09:12 PM) *

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Oct 27 2017, 04:56 PM) *

I now question WHY this build is on a 914 site?

have been thinking this myself but unsure what to comment.....heaps of ar15.gif ar15.gif poke.gif slap.gif , never done it before,least of all with a piece of string......
Anyway we will see.

You again, are you going to have a smart comment on everything I post? Last time it was when I invited everyone on this board out to my open house, for a FREE lunch and a day of enjoying Porsches. Now you have snarky comments on my build, please just save it.

I'm going to ask this again, if you don't have anything constructive to contribute to the thread or if this thread bothers you to no end, please just don't click on it or post here. I've worked really hard to weed out the peanut gallery and keep this thread positive. Believe it or not, but a lot of people on this 914 site are very interested in this build.
Or if you have anything smart you want to say to me personally, save it for a face to face. I'm easy to find, I'm at every Porsche swap meet with a big nametag that says ADAM. If not, don't get tough on a keyboard.

Posted by: carr914 Oct 27 2017, 06:06 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 27 2017, 07:29 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Oct 27 2017, 02:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 26 2017, 03:54 PM) *

Ok, the selling season is quickly ending so I took today and got some real progress made on the front shock towers.
We drilled out the spot welds on the test bed chassis so I have a complete shock tower rack to work with. The front struts from Elephant Racing fit very well and I got in under the wire, literally, see the wire! I ran out of day but at least I know where the shock towers need to go, now I can fab and weld them in. Look for weekly updates now that I have more time.


does this work, without fixing the poor leftover on a bench ?

I'm mean, the chassis looses more and more structural integrity while stripping down.
When welding the relocated suspension mount points I would expect to get lots of trouble regarding warping and other issues resulting in a twisted chassis confused24.gif

br

Benno


Any slight warpage will be more than fixable with the infinitely adjustable suspension. It's an old race car that's been modified to no end already.


Again you show why you have no business working on a car, much less destroying one.

What Benno was saying is without it being built on a Bench, it will be a twisted mess that Suspension doesn't fix. It might mask it till something breaks because of undue stress.

And any Member here is able to post here whether you like it or not!

This was a Car, now it can only be a

Attached Image

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 27 2017, 06:18 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Oct 27 2017, 04:06 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 27 2017, 07:29 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Oct 27 2017, 02:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 26 2017, 03:54 PM) *

Ok, the selling season is quickly ending so I took today and got some real progress made on the front shock towers.
We drilled out the spot welds on the test bed chassis so I have a complete shock tower rack to work with. The front struts from Elephant Racing fit very well and I got in under the wire, literally, see the wire! I ran out of day but at least I know where the shock towers need to go, now I can fab and weld them in. Look for weekly updates now that I have more time.


does this work, without fixing the poor leftover on a bench ?

I'm mean, the chassis looses more and more structural integrity while stripping down.
When welding the relocated suspension mount points I would expect to get lots of trouble regarding warping and other issues resulting in a twisted chassis confused24.gif

br

Benno


Any slight warpage will be more than fixable with the infinitely adjustable suspension. It's an old race car that's been modified to no end already.


Again you show why you have no business working on a car, much less destroying one.

What Benno was saying is without it being built on a Bench, it will be a twisted mess that Suspension doesn't fix. It might mask it till something breaks because of undue stress.

And any Member here is able to post here whether you like it or not!

This was a Car, now it can only be a

Attached Image


I'm going to ask this again, if you don't have anything constructive to contribute to the thread or if this thread bothers you to no end, please just don't click on it or post here. I've worked really hard to weed out the peanut gallery and keep this thread positive. Believe it or not, but a lot of people on this 914 site are very interested in this build.
Or if you have anything smart you want to say to me personally, save it for a face to face. I'm easy to find, I'm at every Porsche swap meet with a big nametag that says ADAM. If not, don't get tough on a keyboard.

Posted by: Edward Blume Oct 27 2017, 07:22 AM

popcorn[1].gif popcorn[1].gif popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: rgalla9146 Oct 27 2017, 07:34 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 27 2017, 08:18 AM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Oct 27 2017, 04:06 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 27 2017, 07:29 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Oct 27 2017, 02:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 26 2017, 03:54 PM) *

Ok, the selling season is quickly ending so I took today and got some real progress made on the front shock towers.
We drilled out the spot welds on the test bed chassis so I have a complete shock tower rack to work with. The front struts from Elephant Racing fit very well and I got in under the wire, literally, see the wire! I ran out of day but at least I know where the shock towers need to go, now I can fab and weld them in. Look for weekly updates now that I have more time.


does this work, without fixing the poor leftover on a bench ?

I'm mean, the chassis looses more and more structural integrity while stripping down.
When welding the relocated suspension mount points I would expect to get lots of trouble regarding warping and other issues resulting in a twisted chassis confused24.gif

br

Benno


Any slight warpage will be more than fixable with the infinitely adjustable suspension. It's an old race car that's been modified to no end already.


Again you show why you have no business working on a car, much less destroying one.

What Benno was saying is without it being built on a Bench, it will be a twisted mess that Suspension doesn't fix. It might mask it till something breaks because of undue stress.

And any Member here is able to post here whether you like it or not!

This was a Car, now it can only be a

Attached Image


I'm going to ask this again, if you don't have anything constructive to contribute to the thread or if this thread bothers you to no end, please just don't click on it or post here. I've worked really hard to weed out the peanut gallery and keep this thread positive. Believe it or not, but a lot of people on this 914 site are very interested in this build.
Or if you have anything smart you want to say to me personally, save it for a face to face. I'm easy to find, I'm at every Porsche swap meet with a big nametag that says ADAM. If not, don't get tough on a keyboard.



Don't be discouraged.
Please continue.
This is pure technical entertainment.
"Function follows form" right ?
Thank you for sharing.
Rory


Posted by: Edward Blume Oct 27 2017, 08:19 AM

Here's another kit on your side of the continent. The last picture looks kind of familiar....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-Replica-Kit-Makes-Eagle-GT-Dino/282708429101?hash=item41d2bc492d:g:YZYAAOSw8b1Z8T4I&vxp=mtr

Posted by: mb911 Oct 27 2017, 08:42 AM



Very cool project.. Not sure why all the negativity.. Keep up the good work..

Posted by: flippa Oct 27 2017, 09:05 AM

agree.gif

Posted by: worn Oct 27 2017, 09:23 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Oct 27 2017, 04:06 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 27 2017, 07:29 AM) *

QUOTE(sechszylinder @ Oct 27 2017, 02:51 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 26 2017, 03:54 PM) *

Ok, the selling season is quickly ending so I took today and got some real progress made on the front shock towers.
We drilled out the spot welds on the test bed chassis so I have a complete shock tower rack to work with. The front struts from Elephant Racing fit very well and I got in under the wire, literally, see the wire! I ran out of day but at least I know where the shock towers need to go, now I can fab and weld them in. Look for weekly updates now that I have more time.


does this work, without fixing the poor leftover on a bench ?

I'm mean, the chassis looses more and more structural integrity while stripping down.
When welding the relocated suspension mount points I would expect to get lots of trouble regarding warping and other issues resulting in a twisted chassis confused24.gif

br

Benno


Any slight warpage will be more than fixable with the infinitely adjustable suspension. It's an old race car that's been modified to no end already.


Again you show why you have no business working on a car, much less destroying one.

What Benno was saying is without it being built on a Bench, it will be a twisted mess that Suspension doesn't fix. It might mask it till something breaks because of undue stress.

And any Member here is able to post here whether you like it or not!

This was a Car, now it can only be a

Attached Image


Posted by: Larmo63 Oct 27 2017, 09:27 AM

"Why did I put it on a 914 site, well, because it's a 914. Or why did I put it on this site? Well, I've been here since 2006, that's 8 years longer than you, so I think I have just as much right to post pics of my build as anyone else."

Without revealing my age, I've probably owned Porsches longer than you have been alive.

And, it's really NOT a 914. It was. It was an important and historic race car.

You butchered it. I'd say it to your face too.

Posted by: bretth Oct 27 2017, 10:25 AM

Really? Enough of the immaturity, you guys are absolutely ruining this site. Are your lives really that boring to keep coming to this thread? If only we all had the free time to waste like you do.

Posted by: billh1963 Oct 27 2017, 01:52 PM

QUOTE(bretth @ Oct 27 2017, 12:25 PM) *

Really? Enough of the immaturity, you guys are absolutely ruining this site. Are your lives really that boring to keep coming to this thread? If only we all had the free time to waste like you do.



Carry on and do your thing. I remember when the car was for sale and when you bought the car. All those crying about it's history had a chance to buy the car and didn't step up.

Historic? Hardly.

It's a thoroughly thrashed race car that was past it's prime. They made a ton of 914's.... this one won't be missed. Make it yours and get it back on the road with it's new body!

Posted by: KELTY360 Oct 27 2017, 02:01 PM

QUOTE(billh1963 @ Oct 27 2017, 12:52 PM) *

QUOTE(bretth @ Oct 27 2017, 12:25 PM) *

Really? Enough of the immaturity, you guys are absolutely ruining this site. Are your lives really that boring to keep coming to this thread? If only we all had the free time to waste like you do.



Carry on and do your thing. I remember when the car was for sale and when you bought the car. All those crying about it's history had a chance to buy the car and didn't step up.

Historic? Hardly.

It's a thoroughly thrashed race car that was past it's prime. They made a ton of 914's.... this one won't be missed. Make it yours and get it back on the road with it's new body!


agree.gif

Nailed it on every point.

Posted by: KELTY360 Oct 27 2017, 02:24 PM

QUOTE(porschetub @ Oct 26 2017, 10:12 PM) *

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Oct 27 2017, 04:56 PM) *

I now question WHY this build is on a 914 site?

have been thinking this myself but unsure what to comment.....heaps of ar15.gif ar15.gif poke.gif slap.gif , never done it before,least of all with a piece of string......
Anyway we will see.


Doubters should read these threads and then stfu:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=36661&hl=

People were drooling over this non-914

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=113579&hl=lotus++Elise++suspension

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Oct 27 2017, 03:37 PM

QUOTE(billh1963 @ Oct 27 2017, 02:52 PM) *

QUOTE(bretth @ Oct 27 2017, 12:25 PM) *

Really? Enough of the immaturity, you guys are absolutely ruining this site. Are your lives really that boring to keep coming to this thread? If only we all had the free time to waste like you do.



Carry on and do your thing. I remember when the car was for sale and when you bought the car. All those crying about it's history had a chance to buy the car and didn't step up.

Historic? Hardly.

It's a thoroughly thrashed race car that was past it's prime. They made a ton of 914's.... this one won't be missed. Make it yours and get it back on the road with it's new body!


Some (me included) disagree with your statement Bill. Doesn't matter now as it has been cut to bits. At this point I wish to see a quality build, but so far I haven't seen that either. I fail to see how all these jagged cuts and welds are going to be cleaned up and made to look like it belongs to the 904 body. I hope it turns out great, but not holding my breath.

As for KELTY360 comments about the other threads. In my eyes there was more thought and planning done in that car then this 904 project will every have.

I wish Adam nothing but the best and hope this project turns out like he wanted it to.

Posted by: billh1963 Oct 27 2017, 04:12 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Oct 27 2017, 05:37 PM) *

QUOTE(billh1963 @ Oct 27 2017, 02:52 PM) *

QUOTE(bretth @ Oct 27 2017, 12:25 PM) *

Really? Enough of the immaturity, you guys are absolutely ruining this site. Are your lives really that boring to keep coming to this thread? If only we all had the free time to waste like you do.



Carry on and do your thing. I remember when the car was for sale and when you bought the car. All those crying about it's history had a chance to buy the car and didn't step up.

Historic? Hardly.

It's a thoroughly thrashed race car that was past it's prime. They made a ton of 914's.... this one won't be missed. Make it yours and get it back on the road with it's new body!


Some (me included) disagree with your statement Bill. Doesn't matter now as it has been cut to bits. At this point I wish to see a quality build, but so far I haven't seen that either. I fail to see how all these jagged cuts and welds are going to be cleaned up and made to look like it belongs to the 904 body. I hope it turns out great, but not holding my breath.

As for KELTY360 comments about the other threads. In my eyes there was more thought and planning done in that car then this 904 project will every have.

I wish Adam nothing but the best and hope this project turns out like he wanted it to.


Garold...which part do you disagree with? Not trying to start a pissing contest since I don't have a dog in this fight. However, I am genuinely curious where am I wrong on this one?

People who know me know I'm not a fan of cutting up cars for the heck of it and am a big fan of originality. However, I just don't see why there's so much "love" for this thoroughly worn out 914.

As far as build quality I'm not qualified to comment on that. I have never claimed to have any bodywork or fabrication skills. I'll have to see the final result.

Posted by: worn Oct 27 2017, 04:22 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Oct 27 2017, 01:37 PM) *

QUOTE(billh1963 @ Oct 27 2017, 02:52 PM) *

QUOTE(bretth @ Oct 27 2017, 12:25 PM) *

Really? Enough of the immaturity, you guys are absolutely ruining this site. Are your lives really that boring to keep coming to this thread? If only we all had the free time to waste like you do.



Carry on and do your thing. I remember when the car was for sale and when you bought the car. All those crying about it's history had a chance to buy the car and didn't step up.

Historic? Hardly.

It's a thoroughly thrashed race car that was past it's prime. They made a ton of 914's.... this one won't be missed. Make it yours and get it back on the road with it's new body!


Some (me included) disagree with your statement Bill. Doesn't matter now as it has been cut to bits. At this point I wish to see a quality build, but so far I haven't seen that either. I fail to see how all these jagged cuts and welds are going to be cleaned up and made to look like it belongs to the 904 body. I hope it turns out great, but not holding my breath.

As for KELTY360 comments about the other threads. In my eyes there was more thought and planning done in that car then this 904 project will every have.

I wish Adam nothing but the best and hope this project turns out like he wanted it to.


While I have been focused on the chassis, perhaps a better question is how easy it is to find one of the 4 cam engines. They seem to be the heart of the project, as the original seems to use a contractor glass body coupled to a ladder frame. That motor on the other hand seems pretty unique. My ignorance is likely showing.

Posted by: siverson Oct 27 2017, 05:12 PM

I'm personally happy to see any build thread and just skip it if I don't find it interesting.

Too bad the forum doesn't have a feature where readers could click "never show me this thread again" and likewise posters could have a feature "hide this thread from these users". Seems like it would save these senseless debates as to what should be "allowed" to be posted. And protect those that are offended to see work that they feel is below their super high skills.

-Steve

Posted by: bandjoey Oct 27 2017, 05:36 PM

There is a website called 914 club and the only thing they talk about there are 914 cars. That might be a good place to go if you don't like this build. bootyshake.gif

Posted by: davehg Oct 27 2017, 05:55 PM

Personally, I'm not really a replica car guy - there's a few replicas that might be fun to own like a Caterham 7 or some of the Pete Brock cars, but I'd rather have something original.

Trouble is, so many original air-cooled Porsches including teeners are getting expensive. My "outlaw" car was also purchased as a race car, and like Unobtanium, I bought it because I couldn't buy a fully completed 3.2 conversion for under $30k unless it was a racer. Mine had a wing (hideous and quickly removed - and unnecessary because the car was used primarily as an auotocrosser where a wing makes no sense). And I wasn't keen on taking a perfectly clean and mint 914 and doing a conversion either - which is why I bought the shell for my current conversion build instead of a clean mint 1.7. I had briefly started with a 914 project that was also set up as a racer - sporting a 2.4 flat six and fiberglass box flares - and also bought cheaply.

I'm reading this thread, and I have to say, unless the car was historically significantly relevant or if Unobtanium had carved up a 914-6 in clean restorable condition to build his 904, I just don't get the pages and pages of outrage. What's really at stake here? (And therein lies the crux of most internet thread outraged replies - the level of outrage is inversely related to the stakes).

And taking aim at his car building prowess when the car is still in the development stages? What are we, like 5 years old now?

To be clear, while I'd not be a buyer of this build were it to be offered, I still enjoy the build thread and always curious to see where people take their 914 projects.


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 27 2017, 06:16 PM

QUOTE(worn @ Oct 27 2017, 02:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Oct 27 2017, 01:37 PM) *

QUOTE(billh1963 @ Oct 27 2017, 02:52 PM) *

QUOTE(bretth @ Oct 27 2017, 12:25 PM) *

Really? Enough of the immaturity, you guys are absolutely ruining this site. Are your lives really that boring to keep coming to this thread? If only we all had the free time to waste like you do.



Carry on and do your thing. I remember when the car was for sale and when you bought the car. All those crying about it's history had a chance to buy the car and didn't step up.

Historic? Hardly.

It's a thoroughly thrashed race car that was past it's prime. They made a ton of 914's.... this one won't be missed. Make it yours and get it back on the road with it's new body!


Some (me included) disagree with your statement Bill. Doesn't matter now as it has been cut to bits. At this point I wish to see a quality build, but so far I haven't seen that either. I fail to see how all these jagged cuts and welds are going to be cleaned up and made to look like it belongs to the 904 body. I hope it turns out great, but not holding my breath.

As for KELTY360 comments about the other threads. In my eyes there was more thought and planning done in that car then this 904 project will every have.

I wish Adam nothing but the best and hope this project turns out like he wanted it to.


While I have been focused on the chassis, perhaps a better question is how easy it is to find one of the 4 cam engines. They seem to be the heart of the project, as the original seems to use a contractor glass body coupled to a ladder frame. That motor on the other hand seems pretty unique. My ignorance is likely showing.

The irony of the 904 having a 4-cam is it wasn't designed for one. Butzi designed it to have the "new" six cylinder motor, but it wasn't ready yet so most of the 904's were fitted with the last iteration of the 4-cam, the 587-3. So doing a build and using a 911 six cylinder motor is actually more in line with the original design of the car. Some of the 904's did get the six late in production.
So while the 4-cam engines are available, they will run you way north of $100,000, and then you have to take it to one of the about a dozen guys in the world who know how to work on them. No thanks. I did use a Faux-Cam in my last build, but that was a story for another day.


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Posted by: Perry Kiehl Oct 27 2017, 06:18 PM

I hope no one comes to my shop and tells me what I need to do with my stuff. It's one car. If nothing else it makes the other 6's worth fractionally more.

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Oct 27 2017, 06:20 PM

I hope no one comes to my shop and tells me what I need to do with my stuff. It's one car. If nothing else it makes the other 6's worth fractionally more.

Posted by: Larmo63 Oct 27 2017, 06:24 PM

I'm not here to make enemies. I wish Adam the best and I'll bet we would be friends if I lived in upstate New York where he is. I'd still have my opinions, but I'd keep them to myself.

I apologize to you Adam, I think I was born a natural smartass.

No more comments from me on this ______________.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 27 2017, 06:48 PM

QUOTE(Edward Blume @ Oct 27 2017, 06:19 AM) *

Here's another kit on your side of the continent. The last picture looks kind of familiar....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-Replica-Kit-Makes-Eagle-GT-Dino/282708429101?hash=item41d2bc492d:g:YZYAAOSw8b1Z8T4I&vxp=mtr

That was cool he used the shot from my dad's old car, and he gave some good praise of this site too, which is always cool.

Posted by: ConeDodger Oct 27 2017, 06:50 PM

In its current condition, the historic value of this car is irrelevant. That boat has sailed. But as an example, here is a different approach to “a thouroughly thrashed race car that was past its prime.”
A friend of mine, Les Canaday, found this thouroughly thrashed race car and restored it for Adam Carolla. It’s currently up for auction and with 4 plus days to go it’s at $46k. With the reserve, it will have to go North of double that.
Bob Sharp only made a few and PLN sat in the driver seat. How can this car be valued at more than $100k? I mean after all, they made more Z cars than 914’s so...
it’s because of its history.

I tried to broker a deal between Adam and a buyer but the buyer didn’t want to meet Adam’s price. It’s Adam’s car so... confused24.gif

But don’t tell people that have different opinion to move along. It’s a forum and opinions differ.

I’ll close with a picture of a thouroughly thrashed race car with no historic value. Got $150k? Cause that’s what it will take. smile.gif


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 27 2017, 07:03 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Oct 27 2017, 04:50 PM) *


But don’t tell people that have different opinion to move along. It’s a forum and opinions differ.




Different opinions are fine, but jackass' calling my car a Piece of Shit is not cool. So I will ask those guys to go find somewhere else to vent their anger and frustration. I have just as much right to be here as anyone else, and just as much right to talk about my build. And based on the feedback in the last few pages alone, I'm not the only one who is interested in seeing this car come together.
And as you pointed out I gave everyone on this board a full year to either trade me a running six conversion or buy my car for enough money to buy a six conversion at market value. No one stepped up, so after a year of talking about cutting on the car I began. It was put up or shut up time for all the naysayers, so all that leaves is the shut up part....

Posted by: ConeDodger Oct 27 2017, 07:19 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 27 2017, 10:03 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Oct 27 2017, 04:50 PM) *


But don’t tell people that have different opinion to move along. It’s a forum and opinions differ.




Different opinions are fine, but jackass' calling my car a Piece of Shit is not cool. So I will ask those guys to go find somewhere else to vent their anger and frustration. I have just as much right to be here as anyone else, and just as much right to talk about my build. And based on the feedback in the last few pages alone, I'm not the only one who is interested in seeing this car come together.
And as you pointed out I gave everyone on this board a full year to either trade me a running six conversion or buy my car for enough money to buy a six conversion at market value. No one stepped up, so after a year of talking about cutting on the car I began. It was put up or shut up time for all the naysayers, so all that leaves is the shut up part....


I wasn’t talking about you Adam. Everything you say is true with the exception of the “just as much right” part. We are all here - or not, at Sir Andy’s pleasure. And there are people who aren’t here. There aren’t many rules here but the name calling thing is a big one. I’d edit that comment out if I were you.
For the record, if I’d seen the car was for sale and could have brokered a deal to get the bodywork too, I’d have done what Canaday/Corolla did with the BSR car. But once you bought it, the price to reunite body and chassis was too high for me. Still, nothing wrong with that, it’s your car.
As for the piece of shit comment, laugh it off and prove him wrong. A well done 904/6 would be fun. Not worth what the original car restored would have been, but I think you and I have agreed to disagree. It’s your car! Make it cool!

Posted by: jmitro Oct 27 2017, 07:45 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Oct 27 2017, 07:50 PM) *

But don’t tell people that have different opinion to move along. It’s a forum and opinions differ.


well the problem is, the thread was not started to solicit opinions, simply to show the build. for some unknown reason the same 4 or 5 people keep interjecting their unsolicited negativity.

Adam, the 550 rear clamshell....is it handmade and handformed? that is amazing! that takes a huge amt of talent

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 27 2017, 07:48 PM

QUOTE(jmitro @ Oct 27 2017, 05:45 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Oct 27 2017, 07:50 PM) *

But don’t tell people that have different opinion to move along. It’s a forum and opinions differ.


well the problem is, the thread was not started to solicit opinions, simply to show the build. for some unknown reason the same 4 or 5 people keep interjecting their unsolicited negativity.

Adam, the 550 rear clamshell....is it handmade and handformed? that is amazing! that takes a huge amt of talent

All hand formed on the English Wheel. You can read about the whole build here:

http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38246




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Posted by: Porschef Oct 27 2017, 08:04 PM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Oct 27 2017, 12:15 AM) *

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Oct 26 2017, 07:56 PM) *

I now question WHY this build is on a 914 site?


Because it started with a 914. Many of us are interested in it and like following the progress. And . . .
The nice thing is that you don't have to follow it. beerchug.gif



100%. 'Nuff said.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Oct 27 2017, 08:22 PM

There are folks who really dislike this project. They have already made their opinions known, and yet they keep coming back to this thread and ripping on it again and again.

I would suggest that, since you have let us all know how you feel about the project, you take the opportunity in the future to skip this thread entirely. Life's too short to keep looking at things that raise your blood pressure. Besides, we have the news to do that for us!!

--DD

Posted by: 914Sixer Oct 27 2017, 09:19 PM

What is wrong with doing it MY WAY? Isn't that what we are all about?

Posted by: Real6 Oct 27 2017, 10:13 PM

QUOTE(914Sixer @ Oct 27 2017, 08:19 PM) *

What is wrong with doing it MY WAY? Isn't that what we are all about?


I think it's because he completely massacred a 914-6 like the butcher he is?

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 27 2017, 11:10 PM

Time was that kind of behavior got you a month in the cooler. dry.gif stop fucking up his thread. dry.gif vas ist los?

Posted by: mgp4591 Oct 28 2017, 12:02 AM

QUOTE(914Sixer @ Oct 27 2017, 09:19 PM) *

What is wrong with doing it MY WAY? Isn't that what we are all about?

Besides, this has the opportunity to be pretty damn cool when it's done...
The shop obviously has the skill and the beauty of the 904 is a great design so let this build commence without all of the BS please....
Can't we all just get along?! confused24.gif

Posted by: PatrickB Oct 28 2017, 04:45 AM

Been hanging around this site for a year or so, first time I've seen this kind of acid attitude here.. not impressed. I figure if I don't own the car I don't have any say in how it gets build. If I do I can do what I want with it. Looking forward to the finished product! Might not be what I would build but that's okay! I bought one that's not what I would have built but I like it anyway. If there's things I want to change then so be it, last time I checked my name is on the ownership. There will eventually be changes to mine that not everyone would do.

Posted by: bretth Oct 28 2017, 06:23 AM

QUOTE(Real6 @ Oct 28 2017, 12:13 AM) *

QUOTE(914Sixer @ Oct 27 2017, 08:19 PM) *

What is wrong with doing it MY WAY? Isn't that what we are all about?


I think it's because he completely massacred a 914-6 like the butcher he is?

It is a 4 conversion. Get lost.

Posted by: gereed75 Oct 28 2017, 06:43 AM

Patrick, no one will care what you do to your car (assuming it is just some standard old 914) and those who don't like it will keep there mouths shut or give it polite faint praise.

It is like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa - do it on a cheap print, no one cares, it is funny. Do it on the original, and most people will be pissed off. Adam, for some inexplicable reason (from what I know he is otherwise a real nice guy) decided to desecrate what is to some people, a Mona Lisa like original race car with significant racing history.

Oh well?!? The rest is, unfortunately, history.

Posted by: My 914 Oct 28 2017, 06:57 AM

I like the Mona Lisa analogy.

Posted by: Edward Blume Oct 28 2017, 06:58 AM

Not liking it and pissing all over yourself was like 2 years ago......

Not that anyone should or does care, I didn't like it back then

....but I'm looking forward to seeing what Adam does with it NOW. I hope to see and admire it it at RR VI and I'll buy Adam a drink while I'm at it.

WE ARE ALL 914 PEOPLE, which makes us the dumbest, most frustrated, stranded by the side of the road, garage and parts storers in the history of car ownership; but I dig 914 people like brothers and appreciate the few sisters out there.




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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 28 2017, 07:06 AM

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Oct 28 2017, 04:43 AM) *

Patrick, no one will care what you do to your car (assuming it is just some standard old 914) and those who don't like it will keep there mouths shut or give it polite faint praise.

It is like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa - do it on a cheap print, no one cares, it is funny. Do it on the original, and most people will be pissed off. Adam, for some inexplicable reason (from what I know he is otherwise a real nice guy) decided to desecrate what is to some people, a Mona Lisa like original race car with significant racing history.

Oh well?!? The rest is, unfortunately, history.


I wonder when people are going to realize that I actually saved this car. It had been on the market for over a decade, no one wanted to buy it. None of the historians who decry my build now. It was last raced in 2007 and was now sitting in a guy's back yard in Miami and after a few years in that climate would have been scrap after you harvested the motor and brakes. But after it came to light that this car had been "found" I offered it up to the community if someone wanted to "save" it, still no takers. I even offered to trade it for a running six conversion, so a group of guys could have banded together, used one of their chassis they had sitting around, put a six in it, and traded it to me. I didn't need nice body work obviously, just no rust. But still no takers.
So had I not bought this car it would have been scraped, lost forever. At least now I will be on the track and at shows telling the history and showing off the new body. Maybe one day everyone will see that. And Brett is right, it is not a real six, but a 4 conversion done by Garretson in the late 70s. It was a follow up car to the 914-6 that won IMSA.
Like I said, everyone had a shot at this car, nobody took it. I guess I should have just set up a private museum and enshrined the car, lost the money I put into buying it, and paid someone on this board $25,000+ for their un-finished six conversion, because I was offered plenty of those.

Posted by: gereed75 Oct 28 2017, 08:18 AM

Adam, it is now lost forever, relative to its history. And I did offer you more than you had in it. At the time, inexplicably, you did not want to consider it.

Hope it comes out. That is the best that can happen now. Good luck with it.

Posted by: PatrickB Oct 29 2017, 04:25 AM

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Oct 28 2017, 08:43 AM) *

Patrick, no one will care what you do to your car (assuming it is just some standard old 914) and those who don't like it will keep there mouths shut or give it polite faint praise.

It is like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa - do it on a cheap print, no one cares, it is funny. Do it on the original, and most people will be pissed off. Adam, for some inexplicable reason (from what I know he is otherwise a real nice guy) decided to desecrate what is to some people, a Mona Lisa like original race car with significant racing history.

Oh well?!? The rest is, unfortunately, history.


Still his car, he gets to do what he wants with it. If I owned the Mona Lisa and wanted to put a mustache on it, my choice...

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 29 2017, 11:27 AM

QUOTE(gereed75 @ Oct 28 2017, 06:18 AM) *

Adam, it is now lost forever, relative to its history. And I did offer you more than you had in it. At the time, inexplicably, you did not want to consider it.

Hope it comes out. That is the best that can happen now. Good luck with it.

I remember your offer being below market, meaning I would sell this car to you, then have to come out of the pocket to buy a six conversion. So it doesn't really matter if you made me an offer for more than I had in it, if I couldn't replace it without spending more money. How is that inexplicable? Seems pretty easy to explain.

This also brings up another good point. When is an old race car no longer it's history? There is a car at my mechanic's shop right now, set up as a 74 RSR. But it's a little more complicated than that. The chassis number is a 65 911 and it was probably raced in that early SWB configuration. It has also raced in Europe by Vic Elford in a different configuration, it was changed a bunch and run as a 935 in the 80s, Brian Redman owned it and raced it with a different set up. If you see the car now without the fiberglass it has been cut, re-shaped, sliced/diced, and bears no resemblance to the car it once was. But, and this is a big but, it is still the same car, it just evolved over time based on the needs/wants of the current owner. So how is what I'm doing any different.
The 914 configuration was completely obsolete, which is why the car was sitting in a guy's backyard rotting, it was the end of the line. It was running SCCA in the GT3 class, against GT3's! I bought it and through my needs/wants am finding new purpose by re-bodying the car and running it again.
So if you were going to restore the 65 911 I mentioned before, under what configuration would you run it, the Vic Elford edition, the Brian Redman edition, the 65 911? Race cars have to evolve to survive.
My car doesn't look anything like it did when it was a stock 914, nor does it look anything like it did when it ran IMSA, when I got it the suspension was completely different, it had a 3.3 motor, a Hewland sequential gearbox, so it bore no resemblance to the car and it's history that all you guys are saying I cut out. But everything that made it Dave Bottoms car or Bob Garretson's car was gone long before I got it. So if that was your bearing on the car's "history" being gone, the ship had long sailed, long before I got it.

But the soul of the car is how I see it. Every race car has the history of what it has been, no matter what is cut and changed along the way. The same sweat soaked into that chassis, the same hope and dreams, the same wins along with the same defeats, all are part of that car's DNA. That isn't changed by me cutting fenders down or moving shock towers. All of these kind of changes have been made many times before on this car. I really hope that everyone can see this like I see it, the car is evolving to survive. Just like hundreds of race cars before it. Like Castro, I will let history judge me.


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Posted by: Chris914n6 Oct 29 2017, 01:39 PM

This is just begging to be a video series like Project Binky. I'm sure you would be good on camera.

Posted by: sixnotfour Oct 29 2017, 02:12 PM

Did Martin Snow own the 911 at one time ?? if so it was first built in mukilteo WA., by Joe Stearns




BTW ..I call my 914-6 customization REDRUM

Posted by: AZBanks Oct 29 2017, 03:21 PM

Adam, Just be patient. In a few weeks, I'll start posting pictures of the Chalon conversion I am doing with my son and then the screaming, moaning, and complaining will switch to my thread.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 29 2017, 04:01 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Oct 29 2017, 11:39 AM) *

This is just begging to be a video series like Project Binky. I'm sure you would be good on camera.

Nope, nope, nopity, nope. Over the last few years I've turned down two offers for a reality show and one for a documentary. My business works best with being below the radar most of the time and only popping my head up when I can control the narrative 100% through controlled venues like magazine articles. Also, Big John said if a camera ever shows up at the shop he's gone.

Posted by: mgp4591 Oct 29 2017, 05:21 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 29 2017, 04:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Oct 29 2017, 11:39 AM) *

This is just begging to be a video series like Project Binky. I'm sure you would be good on camera.

Nope, nope, nopity, nope. Over the last few years I've turned down two offers for a reality show and one for a documentary. My business works best with being below the radar most of the time and only popping my head up when I can control the narrative 100% through controlled venues like magazine articles. Also, Big John said if a camera ever shows up at the shop he's gone.

Graveyard Porsches?? idea.gif lol-2.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 29 2017, 05:33 PM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Oct 29 2017, 03:21 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 29 2017, 04:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Oct 29 2017, 11:39 AM) *

This is just begging to be a video series like Project Binky. I'm sure you would be good on camera.

Nope, nope, nopity, nope. Over the last few years I've turned down two offers for a reality show and one for a documentary. My business works best with being below the radar most of the time and only popping my head up when I can control the narrative 100% through controlled venues like magazine articles. Also, Big John said if a camera ever shows up at the shop he's gone.

Graveyard Porsches?? idea.gif lol-2.gif

I prefer to think of Unobtanium as the land of re-birth, rather than a graveyard. We tend to find them when they are left for dead, and get them into the hands of people who restore them, like this one found a few months ago, it is now in Poland being restored. And yes, that is dirt up to the steering wheel!


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Posted by: mgp4591 Oct 29 2017, 06:24 PM

That's similar to what the Graveyard guys do. I applaud your work and theirs - I was playing on your 'cameras in the shop' comment about your guys! I get your decision to keep your nose to the grindstone rather than going to the reality show bit despite the bucks they'd throw your way. You keep on being you and your shop, your mission statement if you will. Resurrect as many as you can! And play with them as you will... beerchug.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 29 2017, 06:42 PM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Oct 29 2017, 04:24 PM) *

That's similar to what the Graveyard guys do. I applaud your work and theirs - I was playing on your 'cameras in the shop' comment about your guys! I get your decision to keep your nose to the grindstone rather than going to the reality show bit despite the bucks they'd throw your way. You keep on being you and your shop, your mission statement if you will. Resurrect as many as you can! And play with them as you will... beerchug.gif

The main reason we decided against doing a show was while it would be fun, it would kill our actual business. The guys we buy cars from sell to me to do it quietly, they don't want cameras at their house, showing off their collection. They just want to quietly sell 2-3 cars. Also, can you imagine, the rest of my life I would go to buy a car and the seller would be like, "Hey, it's the TV guy!" and the price would be double. Nope, a few seasons of TV would not be worth throwing a fun and profitable business down the toilet.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Oct 29 2017, 07:05 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 29 2017, 03:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Oct 29 2017, 11:39 AM) *

This is just begging to be a video series like Project Binky. I'm sure you would be good on camera.

Nope, nope, nopity, nope. Over the last few years I've turned down two offers for a reality show and one for a documentary. My business works best with being below the radar most of the time and only popping my head up when I can control the narrative 100% through controlled venues like magazine articles. Also, Big John said if a camera ever shows up at the shop he's gone.

That's what Project Binky is.... 2 humorous British dudes with incredible fab skills building a rally car from a rusty Mini body and a wrecked Toyota Celica awd drivetrain in the corner of their shop between paying jobs.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Oct 30 2017, 11:15 AM

QUOTE(AZBanks @ Oct 29 2017, 02:21 PM) *

Adam, Just be patient. In a few weeks, I'll start posting pictures of the Chalon conversion I am doing with my son and then the screaming, moaning, and complaining will switch to my thread.


Oh yay, something new to complain about!!! I can't wait!

Oh, then I can start complaining about the complainers, that will be fun for ages! biggrin.gif

--DD

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 28 2017, 09:10 PM

Now that winter has officially sunk in, temps in the single digits and below, I figured I can really make some headway on this project. It is time to start securing the front suspension now that I have lowered the shock towers. I've been avoiding this job because it's pretty daunting, but I started today with the two outer pieces.
My first piece didn't come out like I wanted it but would probably do the job, while my second piece came out pretty nice. The 2nd piece looking so nice got me to re-do the first piece, which is getting there, but I ran out of day.
So far so good.




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Posted by: bandjoey Dec 29 2017, 04:42 PM

Love the craftsmanship. Keep it coming beerchug.gif

Posted by: Blue6 Dec 29 2017, 04:52 PM

I can't believe you took that perfectly good flat metal and cut and bent it all to hell. What a hack. av-943.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 29 2017, 06:37 PM

I didn't get as far as I wanted today, I dis-carded the re-done piece and started on a 3rd piece, which came out ok. I got started on making the middle piece but ran out of day. Luckily the weather is supposed to be very cold next week to, so plenty of time to get the pellet stove humming and the hammers swinging.

Happy New Year!


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Dec 31 2017, 02:55 PM

Good thing you had the English wheel !

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 31 2017, 05:59 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 12:55 PM) *

Good thing you had the English wheel !

Rory-
It's amazing what you can do with an English Wheel. You should come out this weekend to Pro Shaper and help us work on the aluminum 550, advanced metal shaping indeed!

www.proshaper.com




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Posted by: euro911 Dec 31 2017, 07:55 PM

QUOTE(Blue6 @ Dec 29 2017, 02:52 PM) *
I can't believe you took that perfectly good flat metal and cut and bent it all to hell. What a hack. av-943.gif
laugh.gif Funny, Dave.

I hadn't been on the board a lot recently, so just catching up on your project, Adam. Keep cracking away at it.

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: rgalla9146 Dec 31 2017, 08:30 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 06:59 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 12:55 PM) *

Good thing you had the English wheel !

Rory-
It's amazing what you can do with an English Wheel. You should come out this weekend to Pro Shaper and help us work on the aluminum 550, advanced metal shaping indeed!

www.proshaper.com


It's amazing what THEY can do can do with an English wheel.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 31 2017, 08:39 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 06:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 06:59 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 12:55 PM) *

Good thing you had the English wheel !

Rory-
It's amazing what you can do with an English Wheel. You should come out this weekend to Pro Shaper and help us work on the aluminum 550, advanced metal shaping indeed!

www.proshaper.com


It's amazing what THEY can do can do with an English wheel.


Rory-
I understand you're older and your eyesight might be failing you some, but the picture I posted was me, shaping the metal that went into that 550 tail that was also pictured. And if you want to come out this weekend and brave the cold New England freeze you can work side by side with me shaping metal, I'll give you a crash course, because I'm a nice guy.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 1 2018, 03:24 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 09:39 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 06:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 06:59 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 12:55 PM) *

Good thing you had the English wheel !

Rory-
It's amazing what you can do with an English Wheel. You should come out this weekend to Pro Shaper and help us work on the aluminum 550, advanced metal shaping indeed!

www.proshaper.com


It's amazing what THEY can do can do with an English wheel.


Rory-
I understand you're older and your eyesight might be failing you some, but the picture I posted was me, shaping the metal that went into that 550 tail that was also pictured. And if you want to come out this weekend and brave the cold New England freeze you can work side by side with me shaping metal, I'll give you a crash course, because I'm a nice guy.


Yeah, I'm older and I do use readers but anyone can see that the parts you made for the destroyed 914 racer are junk. I'd be embarrassed to display that lack of
skill. To be proud of them and to claim that YOU formed any compound curve aluminum part for the Spyder is utterly contradictory. The pictures do tell the story.
I'm saying this as politely as I can
PS I love the cold. I was skiing just last weekend north of Montreal.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 1 2018, 07:09 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jan 1 2018, 01:24 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 09:39 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 06:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 06:59 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 12:55 PM) *

Good thing you had the English wheel !

Rory-
It's amazing what you can do with an English Wheel. You should come out this weekend to Pro Shaper and help us work on the aluminum 550, advanced metal shaping indeed!

www.proshaper.com


It's amazing what THEY can do can do with an English wheel.


Rory-
I understand you're older and your eyesight might be failing you some, but the picture I posted was me, shaping the metal that went into that 550 tail that was also pictured. And if you want to come out this weekend and brave the cold New England freeze you can work side by side with me shaping metal, I'll give you a crash course, because I'm a nice guy.


Yeah, I'm older and I do use readers but anyone can see that the parts you made for the destroyed 914 racer are junk. I'd be embarrassed to display that lack of
skill. To be proud of them and to claim that YOU formed any compound curve aluminum part for the Spyder is utterly contradictory. The pictures do tell the story.
I'm saying this as politely as I can
PS I love the cold. I was skiing just last weekend north of Montreal.


Rory-
I guess at this point I've extended the invitation to join us for metal fun, so your only choices are to man up, show up, or shut up. You choose.

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 1 2018, 07:40 PM

i dont get it ,,,one piece panel , route lines through with grommets...But Thats Me

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 1 2018, 10:00 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 1 2018, 08:09 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jan 1 2018, 01:24 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 09:39 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 06:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 06:59 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 12:55 PM) *

Good thing you had the English wheel !

Rory-
It's amazing what you can do with an English Wheel. You should come out this weekend to Pro Shaper and help us work on the aluminum 550, advanced metal shaping indeed!

www.proshaper.com


It's amazing what THEY can do can do with an English wheel.


Rory-
I understand you're older and your eyesight might be failing you some, but the picture I posted was me, shaping the metal that went into that 550 tail that was also pictured. And if you want to come out this weekend and brave the cold New England freeze you can work side by side with me shaping metal, I'll give you a crash course, because I'm a nice guy.


Yeah, I'm older and I do use readers but anyone can see that the parts you made for the destroyed 914 racer are junk. I'd be embarrassed to display that lack of
skill. To be proud of them and to claim that YOU formed any compound curve aluminum part for the Spyder is utterly contradictory. The pictures do tell the story.
I'm saying this as politely as I can
PS I love the cold. I was skiing just last weekend north of Montreal.


Rory-
I guess at this point I've extended the invitation to join us for metal fun, so your only choices are to man up, show up, or shut up. You choose.


Thank you for the invitation. I'll have to decline.
I have no interest in learning that skill.
Perhaps YOU could you provide a 60 minute demonstration on YouTube ?
Maybe whip up a taillight section real quick ?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 1 2018, 10:05 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jan 1 2018, 08:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 1 2018, 08:09 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jan 1 2018, 01:24 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 09:39 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 06:30 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 31 2017, 06:59 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 12:55 PM) *

Good thing you had the English wheel !

Rory-
It's amazing what you can do with an English Wheel. You should come out this weekend to Pro Shaper and help us work on the aluminum 550, advanced metal shaping indeed!

www.proshaper.com


It's amazing what THEY can do can do with an English wheel.


Rory-
I understand you're older and your eyesight might be failing you some, but the picture I posted was me, shaping the metal that went into that 550 tail that was also pictured. And if you want to come out this weekend and brave the cold New England freeze you can work side by side with me shaping metal, I'll give you a crash course, because I'm a nice guy.


Yeah, I'm older and I do use readers but anyone can see that the parts you made for the destroyed 914 racer are junk. I'd be embarrassed to display that lack of
skill. To be proud of them and to claim that YOU formed any compound curve aluminum part for the Spyder is utterly contradictory. The pictures do tell the story.
I'm saying this as politely as I can
PS I love the cold. I was skiing just last weekend north of Montreal.


Rory-
I guess at this point I've extended the invitation to join us for metal fun, so your only choices are to man up, show up, or shut up. You choose.


Thank you for the invitation. I'll have to decline.
I have no interest in learning that skill.
Perhaps YOU could you provide a 60 minute demonstration on YouTube ?
Maybe whip up a taillight section real quick ?


Sorry, the only thing I do on youtube is help my 9 year daughter put up funny videos.
But I will take a bunch of pics and update everyone on the progress on the 550.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 12 2018, 08:33 PM

Made some progress today finished out all the front cowl metal. I also got to try out my new metal brake, that was cool. Ran out of day when a guy came to pick up a 911 but happy with the progress I made.


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Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 12 2018, 08:53 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 12 2018, 06:33 PM) *

Made some progress today finished out all the front cowl metal. I also got to try out my new metal brake, that was cool. Ran out of day when a guy came to pick up a 911 but happy with the progress I made.



Wow, what great junk you got laying around. Of course the 550 hanging from the lift is just awe inspiring!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 25 2018, 02:44 PM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Jan 12 2018, 06:53 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 12 2018, 06:33 PM) *

Made some progress today finished out all the front cowl metal. I also got to try out my new metal brake, that was cool. Ran out of day when a guy came to pick up a 911 but happy with the progress I made.



Wow, what great junk you got laying around. Of course the 550 hanging from the lift is just awe inspiring!


Thanks Bruce! The 550 is turning into a fun one.

Made some good progress on the build today. Start working on the inner fenders as well as the metal around the shock mount. The first piece came out pretty nice but it was only one curve. The next piece was a lot of banging, shrinking, stretching, and more shaping. I ended up cutting it in two piece which helped get the curves better.
So far so good.


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Posted by: Perry Kiehl Jan 25 2018, 07:50 PM

I've never used an english wheel, or really see one used. So you beat a wrinkle in the metal and then smooth it out?

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 25 2018, 08:17 PM

It's all about how you want to shrink the metal. The example just photo'd above is using tuck shrinking. You can tuck shrink by creating a high spot that put a V into the material then hammer the metal back into itself, which shrinks it and creates a compound curve. You're left with the proverbial "bag of walnuts". Then you can employ the English Wheel to smooth it out.
Depending on how much pressure you use when wheeling, you can either just smooth things out or you can stretch/thin the material, which causes the compound curve to raise up more.

Here's a simple hood scoop I made. The compound curve area was all done on the English wheel. It started as a flat piece and I "wheeled up" the curved area by stretching it.

It's fun stuff!


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Posted by: plays with cars Jan 25 2018, 09:45 PM

Fascinated by metal shaping and wish I had the room for the equipment. I would be out there playing all of the time. The 'tuck shrink' just doesn't seem plausible unless your folding the metal back on itself. But then you'd need to heat it to forge it back together. I'm off to YouTube to see what I can find.

Just fascinating.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 25 2018, 09:56 PM

QUOTE(plays with cars @ Jan 25 2018, 07:45 PM) *

Fascinated by metal shaping and wish I had the room for the equipment. I would be out there playing all of the time. The 'tuck shrink' just doesn't seem plausible unless your folding the metal back on itself. But then you'd need to heat it to forge it back together. I'm off to YouTube to see what I can find.

Just fascinating.

The guy that taught me said you have to think of the metal like clay, it can be molded, it just takes time and patience.

Posted by: bretth Jan 25 2018, 10:01 PM

Coolio. Trying make some real progress on my own car. Damn cold in the garage.

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 26 2018, 07:01 AM

What not use grommets for those oil cooler hoses? I'd sure look a lot cleaner if you removed them, added a solid panel, and ran them back through some holes in it.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 26 2018, 08:29 AM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Jan 26 2018, 05:01 AM) *

What not use grommets for those oil cooler hoses? I'd sure look a lot cleaner if you removed them, added a solid panel, and ran them back through some holes in it.

I'm still playing with that panel, and haven't decided on a new fuel cell yet so not 100% sure how many lines and what size will be going through the panel.
And if I do decide to go with this one it will be one panel once it's all welded up.

Posted by: worn Jan 26 2018, 11:16 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 12 2018, 06:33 PM) *

Made some progress today finished out all the front cowl metal. I also got to try out my new metal brake, that was cool. Ran out of day when a guy came to pick up a 911 but happy with the progress I made.


I am wondering if part of the purpose of the multi panel approach is to avoid disconnecting the oil and fuel lines? Are they frozen in place?

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Jan 26 2018, 11:29 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 25 2018, 06:17 PM) *

It's all about how you want to shrink the metal. The example just photo'd above is using tuck shrinking. You can tuck shrink by creating a high spot that put a V into the material then hammer the metal back into itself, which shrinks it and creates a compound curve. You're left with the proverbial "bag of walnuts". Then you can employ the English Wheel to smooth it out.
Depending on how much pressure you use when wheeling, you can either just smooth things out or you can stretch/thin the material, which causes the compound curve to raise up more.

Here's a simple hood scoop I made. The compound curve area was all done on the English wheel. It started as a flat piece and I "wheeled up" the curved area by stretching it.

It's fun stuff!

Curious to know what's below those intake stacks in the picture. They look to be on an angle like it may be something other than a flat 6 . . . This was supposed to appear under the scoop picture. The scoop is sitting on a black teener trunk lid.

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 26 2018, 11:45 AM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Jan 26 2018, 09:29 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 25 2018, 06:17 PM) *

It's all about how you want to shrink the metal. The example just photo'd above is using tuck shrinking. You can tuck shrink by creating a high spot that put a V into the material then hammer the metal back into itself, which shrinks it and creates a compound curve. You're left with the proverbial "bag of walnuts". Then you can employ the English Wheel to smooth it out.
Depending on how much pressure you use when wheeling, you can either just smooth things out or you can stretch/thin the material, which causes the compound curve to raise up more.

Here's a simple hood scoop I made. The compound curve area was all done on the English wheel. It started as a flat piece and I "wheeled up" the curved area by stretching it.

It's fun stuff!

Curious to know what's below those intake stacks in the picture. They look to be on an angle like it may be something other than a flat 6 . . . This was supposed to appear under the scoop picture. The scoop is sitting on a black teener trunk lid.

Don't want to hijack this thread. It's an LS3 w/8 stack injection. Pics here on my build thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=296900&st=520
See post #537 forward

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 26 2018, 02:19 PM

QUOTE(worn @ Jan 26 2018, 09:16 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 12 2018, 06:33 PM) *

Made some progress today finished out all the front cowl metal. I also got to try out my new metal brake, that was cool. Ran out of day when a guy came to pick up a 911 but happy with the progress I made.


I am wondering if part of the purpose of the multi panel approach is to avoid disconnecting the oil and fuel lines? Are they frozen in place?


No, it just had several conflicting angles to conform to the existing body lines. I'm trying to go with as much of the original body lined internally as possible, figure it would add strength to weld as many points as possible. I could have run a flat sheet across the front but I was doing it a little different.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 2 2018, 04:56 PM

So we are getting about a foot of wet snow today. Why is that good news? Because no one will show up at the shop except me, and the hearty UPS man, can't stop him!
But I got to set up a bunch of new equipment and try to out. I was able to get the new Planishing Hammer going, only a couple of strange fittings and stuff, but it's now fully operational. I also set up the shrinker/stretcher which came with a cool mount that mounts to the vise, so I can put it away when I'm not using it. That's handy for a tool you might only use a couple times a month, it isn't taking up valuable floor space.
Between the P Hammer, English Wheel, shrinker, and hand hammer, I am getting the curves I need. Metal work is slow, but you can see progress.
I think I'm going to try and head in this weekend so stay tuned!



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 2 2018, 04:56 PM

Final pics.


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Posted by: Garland Mar 2 2018, 10:04 PM

Looks like fun! welder.gif

Posted by: mb911 Mar 3 2018, 07:16 AM

Adam,

I am struggling to see /invision what you are fabbing right now. Can you help explain it?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 3 2018, 09:06 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 3 2018, 05:16 AM) *

Adam,

I am struggling to see /invision what you are fabbing right now. Can you help explain it?

I think you have to go back a few pages to see the mockup, I'm doing the driver's side inner fender.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 4 2018, 12:11 PM

Very satisfying day today. Up at 6AM on a Sunday is strange but you do what you have to do for the project, right?
I brought in some reinforcements on this one because I was making too many guesses with the front suspension so my mechanic Rick from Bavarian Rocket Science was kind enough to make an early morning cameo. Sure enough in a little over an hour his skill was on full display, setting up the front suspension beam as well as figuring out we needed to shorten the front sway bar in order for the shock to clear.
Not only has Rick been racing for decades he also worked on these cars when they were new, so his eye can quickly do what would take me days of trail and error to figure out.
Now that the suspension was set I got to work on the inner fender well and it went really well, sorry, bad pun. But the metal really flowed the way I wanted it to. It was a combination of shrinking, pounding, wheeling, and P-Hammering, then repeat. I got the piece within about 80% of where I want it before I ran out of time. I told my kids I would be home by noon to hit the flea market and spend the day working on craft projects. I got back at 12:11, off to the Flea Market!!


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Posted by: bretth Mar 4 2018, 12:37 PM

Nice! was near your shop yesterday wondering if you were smash.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 4 2018, 01:28 PM

QUOTE(bretth @ Mar 4 2018, 10:37 AM) *

Nice! was near your shop yesterday wondering if you were smash.gif

Nope, yesterday I was shoveling, and then shoveling some more, if only snow was $$$!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 8 2018, 02:18 PM

As Ice Cube would say, "today was a good day!"

I started with the middle section of the cowl under the suspension beam. It went in almost perfectly, a little tweeking, but I was happy with the result. I then went to the passenger side piece and it was all wrong, I messed with it for about an hour and finally tossed it and made another, which I was much happier with. The driver's side piece needed a little finishing but was un-eventful. I got all three pieces welded in and it's strong. I plan on doing more metal on the back side and in the corners to make sure the strength is there, but I am happy with the result today.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 15 2018, 01:50 PM

Today was very productive. I welded up the front cowl panel, and then made and welded up a backside panel. The fit was very nice and I have to say after welding on rusty 50 year old 356's all week, welding newer steel to brand new steel was wonderful. It was flowing so nice it was laying caulk.
A good day indeed!
Tomorrow, back to 356's, a 63 Super 90 Coupe.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 18 2018, 05:20 PM

My wife was having friend's over today so I got to slip away to the shop. It doesn't look like much but this piece curved in about 5 different directions, so it was a lot of fitting, banging, fitting, wheeling, fitting, banging, and finally welding it in.
The other piece of good news is a I talked to a friend of mine who lives behind a race track and he said I can bring the car to his place, he will help me set up all the suspension (corner balancing, toe-in, camber, etc.) and then we could run it on the track. I'm still several months out from this but it's nice to know I can really sort it on the track when the time comes.


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Posted by: r_towle Mar 18 2018, 06:53 PM

Adam,
Clean up the metal before you weld.
It may help to get better welds.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 18 2018, 07:16 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Mar 18 2018, 04:53 PM) *

Adam,
Clean up the metal before you weld.
It may help to get better welds.

Rich, thanks for the tip.
I think a lot of that was coming through from the backside, I cleaned the surface but I was welding deep and it finds contaminates and draws them to the surface. The welding was also hard because on the back side I had to do most of it upside down and at funny angles. The front part of the cowl came out much cleaner. But thanks for looking everything over.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 22 2018, 10:00 PM

Sorry everybody, no 904 work this week, I headed out to MA to check on my 356 paint job and spent the rest of the day shaping 550 metal. The wire form is almost done, much easier than a wooden buck.
904 updates next week!



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Posted by: SirAndy Mar 22 2018, 10:04 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 22 2018, 09:00 PM) *
Sorry everybody, no 904 work this week, I headed out to MA to check on my 356 paint job

That dude should donate his lungs to a museum, i'm sure that would make for an interesting display ...
unsure.gif

Posted by: mb911 Mar 28 2018, 06:41 AM

Adam,
. god bless you for saving all those cars and helping them to get into the right hands.

Regarding this build I feel like I am being catfished here. The skill sets being talked about are not being translated and I am one that is in the know so I can speak to quality of fab.

Posted by: Edward Blume Mar 28 2018, 06:48 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 28 2018, 05:41 AM) *

Adam,
. god bless you for saving all those cars and helping them to get into the right hands.

Regarding this build I feel like I am being catfished here. The skill sets being talked about are not being translated and I am one that is in the know so I can speak to quality of fab.

agree.gif agree.gif

Going to work is a form of male enhancement, daily, in that shop.

We've had an unwritten rule around here for a long time, and that is support people's dreams with their 914s, it's their dream, not yours. Safety is another issue, fire away.

Posted by: Edward Blume Mar 28 2018, 06:50 AM

Interesting looking drums on the 356... and knock offs?

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 28 2018, 08:45 AM

Adam - the 550 work looks like it's happening at Wray Schelin's place?
I'll be there next week for his 4-day coach building course (Fri-Mon).
Any chance you'll be stopping by?
Chris

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 28 2018, 12:26 PM

QUOTE(Edward Blume @ Mar 28 2018, 04:50 AM) *

Interesting looking drums on the 356... and knock offs?

Yes, Rudge knock off wheels. People tend to knock them, but if they were good enough for Steve McQueen, they're good enough for me.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 28 2018, 12:32 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 28 2018, 06:45 AM) *

Adam - the 550 work looks like it's happening at Wray Schelin's place?
I'll be there next week for his 4-day coach building course (Fri-Mon).
Any chance you'll be stopping by?
Chris

Yes, at Wray's place. The wire frame is finished so I'll be there a lot and maybe next weekend, hope to see you there!


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Posted by: mbseto Mar 28 2018, 02:05 PM

Those wire frames are really cool. When I was a kid it was a dream of mine to be able to design and fabricate a car body. Had no idea how it could be done and was surrounded by people that thought only a big car company could do it. By the time I heard about techniques like this, I was well on my way to becoming a cubicalized engineer. Finally got the resources to get into the game a little, even if it was a bit late. Watching this process still fascinates me. I'm enjoying this thread.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 28 2018, 03:02 PM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Mar 28 2018, 12:05 PM) *

Those wire frames are really cool. When I was a kid it was a dream of mine to be able to design and fabricate a car body. Had no idea how it could be done and was surrounded by people that thought only a big car company could do it. By the time I heard about techniques like this, I was well on my way to becoming a cubicalized engineer. Finally got the resources to get into the game a little, even if it was a bit late. Watching this process still fascinates me. I'm enjoying this thread.

You should take Wray's class, it almost life changing. You start looking at cars and saying, "I can build that!"

www.proshaper.com

Posted by: mepstein Mar 28 2018, 03:41 PM

Catfished lol-2.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 28 2018, 05:52 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 28 2018, 04:41 AM) *

Adam,
. god bless you for saving all those cars and helping them to get into the right hands.

Regarding this build I feel like I am being catfished here. The skill sets being talked about are not being translated and I am one that is in the know so I can speak to quality of fab.

Catfished? Not really sure what that means, but if reading this thread is making you feel funny inside, maybe you should not click on it.
If I had to guess what you're trying to say it's you saying your skills are far superior to mine. Maybe, I don't know your skills. But if they are the adult thing to do here would be to maybe offer pointers, or suggest pitfalls to avoid, I don't know, really anything that might help a fellow car guy in his build. That's what forum's are about, right? Or maybe you guys can just take some jabs, like real internet tough guys, that would be really adult.

Seriously, how many times do I have to say this, if you don't like my build, don't like me, or don't like my ideas, don't click on the thread.

As far as the quality of the work being done on the 914, I can tell you it's well on par with all the work that has already been done to the car, in fact in many cases my work goes far beyond the quality that is already evident on the car. If anyone has constructive criticism on how I can improve something, like some people on this thread have done, I'm all about it, happy to learn, discuss methods, ideas, etc. But if you're just going to heckle, please go find another thread. After 60,000 views and 12 years on this board I think I and this thread have earned that. Also, I'm showing the work raw, as it's being done, end of the day, I could clean everything up and only show certain shots, but what's the point in that?

Posted by: mb911 Mar 28 2018, 07:16 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 28 2018, 03:52 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 28 2018, 04:41 AM) *

Adam,
. god bless you for saving all those cars and helping them to get into the right hands.

Regarding this build I feel like I am being catfished here. The skill sets being talked about are not being translated and I am one that is in the know so I can speak to quality of fab.

Catfished? Not really sure what that means, but if reading this thread is making you feel funny inside, maybe you should not click on it.
If I had to guess what you're trying to say it's you saying your skills are far superior to mine. Maybe, I don't know your skills. But if they are the adult thing to do here would be to maybe offer pointers, or suggest pitfalls to avoid, I don't know, really anything that might help a fellow car guy in his build. That's what forum's are about, right? Or maybe you guys can just take some jabs, like real internet tough guys, that would be really adult.

Seriously, how many times do I have to say this, if you don't like my build, don't like me, or don't like my ideas, don't click on the thread.

As far as the quality of the work being done on the 914, I can tell you it's well on par with all the work that has already been done to the car, in fact in many cases my work goes far beyond the quality that is already evident on the car. If anyone has constructive criticism on how I can improve something, like some people on this thread have done, I'm all about it, happy to learn, discuss methods, ideas, etc. But if you're just going to heckle, please go find another thread. After 60,000 views and 12 years on this board I think I and this thread have earned that. Also, I'm showing the work raw, as it's being done, end of the day, I could clean everything up and only show certain shots, but what's the point in that?


Adam I have no ill feelings towards you . In fact I admire what you do and how you find these fantastic cars. I just know two things that I term catfishing (or jobbing us is another term for this). The work I think you are saying you do on the 550 and wire fixtures is not translating in welding and fabrication on the 914.. I have taught welding and fabrication at college level for 18 years now and have run 2 successful business's fabricating parts for 911s, 356s, 912s, 914s and I see you operate and English wheel but then I see you make a template of a part you want to put on the 914. You then "fab " it up and proceed to" weld" the panel in place. The quality levels of the 2 different projects are 2 different ends of the spectrum and I struggle to see how they were done by the same guy..

Now if I miss read this my apologies. I can tell you this much I do respect you for what you do immensely and would gladly buy you lunch or a drink if we were ever to meet up. Its just that when we talk fabrication /welding sometimes I can't bite my tongue.

Carry on I will be happy to watch your project and won't comment just looking for clarification..



Posted by: mb911 Mar 28 2018, 07:20 PM

One last thing my number is in my signature I would be happy to talk with you , give pointers, etc.. My biggest critic is proper prep of the weld areas, proper but joints, cut materials with plasma or oxy torch as a last resort and use shear and cut off wheels as standard.


I am absolutely sincere in my offer. Give me a call.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 28 2018, 07:30 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 28 2018, 05:20 PM) *

One last thing my number is in my signature I would be happy to talk with you , give pointers, etc.. My biggest critic is proper prep of the weld areas, proper but joints, cut materials with plasma or oxy torch as a last resort and use shear and cut off wheels as standard.


I am absolutely sincere in my offer. Give me a call.

Thanks for the tip, I use either air shears or a cut off wheel, I don't have a plasma cutter. I do need to find a better way to prep some of the hard to reach spots. I've been using a die grinder with a 3" disc, but my body guy showed me one of his tools, I might have to get one. They are pricey, but good tools always are.


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Posted by: mb911 Mar 28 2018, 07:48 PM

Dyna file or the likes is whats pictured. The 4-1/2" hand grinder with a.045 cut off wheel works really well.. The debur with the dyna file.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 28 2018, 07:49 PM

Also a 90 degree angle grinder with a roloc setup for sanding discs, scotch brites work awesome.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 28 2018, 08:01 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 28 2018, 05:49 PM) *

Also a 90 degree angle grinder with a roloc setup for sanding discs, scotch brites work awesome.

Thanks!

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Mar 29 2018, 09:31 AM

Plenty of us are enjoying the build Adam, don't let them bring you down to their level on this thread. Hard to ignore I know, but you're time is better spent in the shop. It seems people like that will just try to keep the banter going . . . Or, you could get some enjoyment out of this if you're like me. "What can I cut next to really piss someone off?"

Posted by: KELTY360 Mar 29 2018, 09:42 AM

Well said Adam. The negative responses to your thread are one of the most disappointing things I've seen on 914World. As a whole, when someone takes on a massive project this group is supportive and objective; offering constructive criticism and encouragement. In your case you've been treated rudely for further modifying an already heavily modified car which had apparently outlived it's usefulness...unless you were expected to restore it to some previous level of modification.

Generally, the prevailing attitude is: "it's your car, do what you want with it." But with you, there is a certain segment of '914 Purists'....now there's an oxymoron....who can't stand seeing someone trying to follow an audacious vision. Maybe I'm simple minded, but I don't get the vituperation against another member who has been forthright in his intentions from the start. I think you've been very patient with the naysayers in spite of their repeated rude, non-constructive behavior towards you personally.....on your own thread. In my own humble opinion, the adults need to check their attitudes at the door or as you suggest, start their own bashing thread. The children should just STFU.

I hope you'll continue to ignore the a-holes among us and persevere. You may even learn to be a better welder.....not that I have any right to critique. shades.gif

Posted by: bretth Mar 29 2018, 10:00 AM

I wish an admin could come in and clean the garbage out of this thread. It has been done on 914 world before but it appears only some personal favorites are afforded this allowance. I know now that I will never post a build thread on here and I am sure there are others who feel the same. Bunch of adult babies ruining what this site used to be.

Brett

Posted by: simonjb Mar 29 2018, 10:28 AM

I love this forum - and I am relatively new here - but its a shame about all these negative posts. Remember what your Mother said (or should have said) - if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all. It does nothing but cause grief.

Adam, keep posting. Its fun to see and read.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Mar 29 2018, 11:09 AM

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 29 2018, 11:09 AM

Looks like this thread is ready for a cleanup but i'm currently at work and have no time to weed through 39(!) pages.

headbang.gif

Posted by: bbrock Mar 29 2018, 11:30 AM

QUOTE(bretth @ Mar 29 2018, 10:00 AM) *

I know now that I will never post a build thread on here and I am sure there are others who feel the same.


I vowed to stay out of this thread but this comment hits hard and I feel I need to chime in. Honestly, I get where both sides are coming from and confess that I've been confused here myself. But I strongly agree that constructive criticism is what this is all about and putting everything else aside, Adam has responded well when it is offered.

To think this thread might dissuade others from staring there own build thread is a travesty. I've been here less than a year and have come to regard my build thread as one of the most important tools I have for my restoration. It is equally important as is my welder, grinder, and body hammer IMHO. And the build thread is a two-way street. It helps both the person doing the build and the many who read it. There is no way I'd have gotten as far on my build as I have without the many build threads that went before, or the advice I've received.

I have my own opinions here, but what's done is done. The race car is dead. It seems the best possible outcome going forward is to help Adam create a kick ass 904 tribute. If not for this project, do it to encourage other people to share their work! beerchug.gif

Posted by: johnhora Mar 29 2018, 11:49 AM

I couldn't find the sports car of my dreams, so I built it myself.
Ferdinand Porsche



Adam....Keep building Brother!


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 29 2018, 01:40 PM

Ok, so I'm going to go with the Aye's won, and the Nay's can....

With that over, let's get back to the build.
After taking the criticism from two other members about the dirty welds I went back and wanted to see what might have changed in my procedure and or materials. I remembered I hate changed steel suppliers recently. So while my old flat steel had a light coating that was weld through, the new stuff did not. if you look at the cleaned photo you can see where a pretty thick coating came off. Live and learn. I also added some more tools to the cleaning arsenal.
The piece went in really well and fit nicely. The welds came out much cleaner. It was still tricky towards the bottom, welding at funny angles and upside down, but I was happy with the results.
Hopefully I can make some time tomorrow too.

And thanks to everyone for your support on the build, it really means a lot. And thanks again to Rich and Ben for pointing out the dirty welds, aren't forums great!


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Posted by: tygaboy Mar 29 2018, 02:05 PM

Adam - Some observations from the West Coast...

The original sheet metal you used looks to be hot rolled, a process that leaves that nasty coating, is messy to weld, etc. You want cold rolled.

What gauge material are you using? It could be the pics but it looks far thicker than the chassis material. I'd think you'd want 18ga.

When adding those panels to replace/reinforce the frunk firewall, if you're not going to butt weld them and will be lap welding as you are, you might consider spot welding them in.
I'd be willing to bet that with the full seam welds you're using, you're moving the chassis around in ways you may not want. At the very least, I'd add bracing to prevent things moving.

You could also add some beading to give the panels some section to add stiffness, especially in any of the larger, flat panels.

Another option would be to add closed sections (folded sheet metal or square tube, maybe?) to form a more suitable opening that you'd then close with the sheet metal. You may find you can work with smaller, simpler pieces to address the more complex areas and that'll make it easier, overall, to complete a particular area.

If one is better at metal forming, then make fewer pieces, if one is better at welding, make more pieces and weld them together. In the end, it's essentially the same result.
(I'm living this very thing as I tackle my custom fire wall.)

Hope you find this useful.

Maybe see you next week at Wray's.
Chris

Posted by: mb911 Mar 29 2018, 03:23 PM

Adam,

What is your welder setup ? Wire diameter, brand and model? What welding helmet are you using again? This will help me guide you a but more. Looks like your current setup maybe askew.. If we can help with that then the rest falls into place a bit more..


One of my favorite new welding helmets is the miller t94. It has good off welding vision to allow for good placement of the electrode and turns up or down in half shades.

Another point would be that for your panels intermittent welds maybe all thats needed so a full seem weld may not be needed. I would lay out where the welds need to go about every 1.5" for a 3/4" bead. This will make the parts plenty strong and save time on clean up..

Posted by: tomeric914 Mar 29 2018, 04:55 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 29 2018, 04:23 PM) *

Another point would be that for your panels intermittent welds maybe all that's needed so a full seem weld may not be needed. I would lay out where the welds need to go about every 1.5" for a 3/4" bead. This will make the parts plenty strong and save time on clean up..

agree.gif

Also slow down your wire feed and maybe bump the voltage up a notch. It should sound like bacon frying when the speed and voltage are right and the welds should lay fairly flat.

Other factors that will affect your welds are how far you're away and whether you're pushing or pulling the electrode.

I did a quick search and found this video on wire speed and voltage that isn't half bad if you've got a few minutes (don't be fooled by the goofy still image, it's legit):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZuq4XQTHVs


From a material perspective, it looks like you might have picked up some black iron which needs a lot of cleaning to weld right as you have discovered.

With the settings right, you'll have a lot less grinding to do when it's all done.

Lastly, I'm not sure where your shop is but am willing to help if you're not far away. I'm located near Syracuse.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 29 2018, 05:21 PM

Remember voltage is = to gears you can only go so slow/ fast in each gear without changing to another gear to faster or slower

Wirespeed is = to gas pedal. It will only go so fast until you run out of gear and you need again shift gears

They should be paired. The biggest mistake people make is think that to make a weld hotter is to turn the voltage up without knowing that voltage is potential amperage and wire speed is actual amperage= heat.

Posted by: jd74914 Mar 29 2018, 05:42 PM

QUOTE(tomeric914 @ Mar 29 2018, 05:55 PM) *

I did a quick search and found this video on wire speed and voltage that isn't half bad if you've got a few minutes (don't be fooled by the goofy still image, it's legit):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZuq4XQTHVs


That guy's (Jody) podcast is really good, as are his videos. Definitely recommended.

I would switch to a flap disc on your grinder for cleanup. Or even a knotted wire wheel. Those cup brushes suck IMO. I've never liked how they seem to unbalance the grinder either.

Going to join Chris here and say your metal is way heavier than needed as well. From this view it looks ~0.100" thick; you would likely be just fine with 0.050".

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 30 2018, 08:48 AM

To answer everyone's question about my welding setup. I'm using a Millermatic 135. I normally have the settings at about 33 for wire speed and around 3 for voltage. I have to lower everything when I'm welding on really rusty 356's, too much just blows holes in the side of a car. My welding helmet is your standard Northern Tool auto-darkening helmet, not a big fan of the flames. The metal I'm using is 16 gauge, which is what I normally use.

Any advise on any of these I am all ears. Anything I can do to improve my process would be great and I know there is a lot of talent on this board.


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Posted by: mb911 Mar 30 2018, 08:59 AM

16ga is too think and it is hot rolled which makes your job harder. What is your wire diameter?

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 30 2018, 09:01 AM

16 ga isn't what you want. It's unnecessarily heavy and that much more difficult to shape. Unless you're willing to cut out and re-do the recent work on the frunk area, I'd simply recommend that from here on, you use 18 ga, and even consider 20 ga, depending on what you're building.
What I'm finding is that I need to really think through the piece I'm making and understand what it needs to do: Is it bearing or transferring any load or is it primarily closing off a space? You've left the main cross brace between the suspension towers so the primary stiffening design is still intact. But look at where and how they reinforced when running the 100 liter tanks. It's 18 or 20 ga with lots of section / shaping to recoup strength (from removing that main panel) and transmit the loads into the chassis.
The pic is from Armando's build and he did a neat thing by welding in that tube to fully enclose the sway bar and create a "lower" cross brace. Pretty neat touch.

Something to consider as you move to other parts of the chassis mods.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 30 2018, 09:24 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 30 2018, 07:01 AM) *

16 ga isn't what you want. It's unnecessarily heavy and that much more difficult to shape. Unless you're willing to cut out and re-do the recent work on the frunk area, I'd simply recommend that from here on, you use 18 ga, and even consider 20 ga, depending on what you're building.
What I'm finding is that I need to really think through the piece I'm making and understand what it needs to do: Is it bearing or transferring any load or is it primarily closing off a space? You've left the main cross brace between the suspension towers so the primary stiffening design is still intact. But look at where and how they reinforced when running the 100 liter tanks. It's 18 or 20 ga with lots of section / shaping to recoup strength (from removing that main panel) and transmit the loads into the chassis.
The pic is from Armando's build and he did a neat thing by welding in that tube to fully enclose the sway bar and create a "lower" cross brace. Pretty neat touch.

Something to consider as you move to other parts of the chassis mods.

Unfortunately once I finish this front suspension area there isn't much sheet metal work left. I have to shorten the center and take care of the cage, but that's about it with the chassis. At least the major work, the rest is covered up with the 904 body. The shock towers in the rear are already lowered. The front area was the biggest hurdle and the most intimidating one.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 30 2018, 09:53 AM

QUOTE(johnhora @ Mar 29 2018, 09:49 AM) *

I couldn't find the sports car of my dreams, so I built it myself.
Ferdinand Porsche



Adam....Keep building Brother!

For the record, that quote is what drives me to take on these projects.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 30 2018, 10:05 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 30 2018, 06:59 AM) *

16ga is too think and it is hot rolled which makes your job harder. What is your wire diameter?

I'm using .030 wire and the gas is 75% Argon/ 25% Carbon Dioxide

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 30 2018, 10:32 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 30 2018, 09:05 AM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 30 2018, 06:59 AM) *

16ga is too think and it is hot rolled which makes your job harder. What is your wire diameter?

I'm using .030 wire and the gas is 75% Argon/ 25% Carbon Dioxide


For non-structural sheet metal, I've found I have better results with .023 wire.

Check to see if your welder has a wire drive wheel that can be flipped around to accommodate various wire sizes. You'll also need the appropriate sized tips.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 30 2018, 11:07 AM

Please don't make me come back here for more cleanup. I hate cleaning.

Maybe we can hire Ferg as the forum cleaner?
FERG.gif

Posted by: mb911 Mar 30 2018, 11:17 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 30 2018, 08:32 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 30 2018, 09:05 AM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 30 2018, 06:59 AM) *

16ga is too think and it is hot rolled which makes your job harder. What is your wire diameter?

I'm using .030 wire and the gas is 75% Argon/ 25% Carbon Dioxide


For non-structural sheet metal, I've found I have better results with .023 wire.

Check to see if your welder has a wire drive wheel that can be flipped around to accommodate various wire sizes. You'll also need the appropriate sized tips.

agree.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 30 2018, 12:03 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 30 2018, 09:17 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 30 2018, 08:32 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 30 2018, 09:05 AM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 30 2018, 06:59 AM) *

16ga is too think and it is hot rolled which makes your job harder. What is your wire diameter?

I'm using .030 wire and the gas is 75% Argon/ 25% Carbon Dioxide


For non-structural sheet metal, I've found I have better results with .023 wire.

Check to see if your welder has a wire drive wheel that can be flipped around to accommodate various wire sizes. You'll also need the appropriate sized tips.

agree.gif

Thanks guys, I'll check it out.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 30 2018, 12:34 PM

Another suggestion if you have time is take a short community college or tech college welding class on GMAW .. I have a ton of people that come to my classes that are building cars for hobby or race.. Even 20 hours of helmet time will drastically improve your welding skills.

Posted by: KELTY360 Mar 30 2018, 12:35 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Mar 30 2018, 10:07 AM) *

Please don't make me come back here for more cleanup. I hate cleaning.

Maybe we can hire Ferg as the forum cleaner?
FERG.gif


agree.gif

Thanks Andy! beerchug.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 30 2018, 01:04 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 30 2018, 10:34 AM) *

Another suggestion if you have time is take a short community college or tech college welding class on GMAW .. I have a ton of people that come to my classes that are building cars for hobby or race.. Even 20 hours of helmet time will drastically improve your welding skills.

I did that about 7 years ago in Brooklyn. Wasn't a lot of help. The teachers were plumbers and were very confused about why I would want to grind down a weld. Also, it was all stick welding. When I asked about Mig or Tig, they had an old mig in the back they got working for me. So I got really good at stick welding, which I've never done again.
The other problem is 90% of the welding I've done has been on really rusty 356's so the skilled I learned there don't always translate into working on good steel. It's a journey.

The funniest thing about the class in Brooklyn was a couple of guys were asking me who my PO was? Previous owner? Huh?
Probation officer, apparently, taking this welding class was the first thing you took to become a licensed plumber in NYC, and a lot of probation guys were funneled there. It was funny, me and the ex-cons.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 30 2018, 01:31 PM

Wow thats too bad. We currently have 200 students enrolled in our program and teach around what the students actually need based off of what the purpose of their needed outcomes are..

I can see why that class wouldn't help ..

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 30 2018, 02:07 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 30 2018, 11:31 AM) *

Wow thats too bad. We currently have 200 students enrolled in our program and teach around what the students actually need based off of what the purpose of their needed outcomes are..

I can see why that class wouldn't help ..

Sounds like that would have been a much better move.

Posted by: jd74914 Mar 30 2018, 02:40 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 30 2018, 02:04 PM) *

I did that about 7 years ago in Brooklyn. Wasn't a lot of help. The teachers were plumbers...

Yeah, I think it's a location issue. In CT you can take classes more geared towards aerospace fabrication techniques given the local industry. Likely the same where Ben teaches in WI (though his program also does sound pretty awesome smile.gif ). Not much of that in NYC; you're looking at a local need for pipe fitters and structural welders. A lot of pipe fitters can really weld, but not really relevant.

Posted by: Ferg Mar 30 2018, 03:50 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ Mar 30 2018, 09:07 AM) *

Please don't make me come back here for more cleanup. I hate cleaning.

Maybe we can hire Ferg as the forum cleaner?
FERG.gif



w00t.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 3 2018, 01:39 PM

Well, thanks to the help from this forum I was able to figure out that the steel I bought was not going to work. Hot rolled is not the way to go. But what to do with the steel, take it back? That's a pain.
Then today Big John was getting a motor off the shelf to crate up and was crabbin about how hard it is to move the motors around on the wood shelf, they grab at every turn. he said, "We should put sheet steel up here and then we could slide the motors."

Sheet steel you say? I just happen to have a pile.

It all works out in the end, right?




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Posted by: mb911 Apr 3 2018, 03:21 PM

There you go perfect..

One side note. Going with thinner metals will increase difficulty for welding so do some test welds 1st to ensure proper setup.

Posted by: Mueller Apr 3 2018, 03:21 PM

The price of plasma cutters have come down so much , even JEGS has one that would be perfect for sheet metal for $300 . Sometimes much safer than a cutoff wheel. One exploded wheel and a trip to the ER could pay for the plasma!

Posted by: mbseto Apr 3 2018, 03:39 PM

QUOTE(tomeric914 @ Mar 29 2018, 06:55 PM) *

It should sound like bacon frying when the speed and voltage are right...


Good lord, I've come to love that sound.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 3 2018, 04:41 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Apr 3 2018, 01:21 PM) *

The price of plasma cutters have come down so much , even JEGS has one that would be perfect for sheet metal for $300 . Sometimes much safer than a cutoff wheel. One exploded wheel and a trip to the ER could pay for the plasma!

It wasn't an exploding wheel, but a tiny chunk of metal, from using the wheel. Went to urgent care, they sent me to the ER, and then had to follow up with an eye DR who scrapped the rust spot off my eye. Ironic, Porsches rust everywhere, even in your eye!

Ever since then, it's full face shield, no glasses.


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Posted by: euro911 Apr 3 2018, 10:55 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Apr 3 2018, 02:21 PM) *
The price of plasma cutters have come down so much , even JEGS has one that would be perfect for sheet metal for $300 . Sometimes much safer than a cutoff wheel. One exploded wheel and a trip to the ER could pay for the plasma!
Yeah, if you cut yourself real bad and bleed a lot, you just might need some extra plasma poke.gif

Posted by: Dougster Apr 3 2018, 11:10 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Apr 3 2018, 05:41 PM) *

..Ever since then, it's full face shield, no glasses.


EXACTLY... I had a cut off wheel explode on me while restoring my volvo 1800E... the thing violently blew into chunks at a high rate of speed while running it without the %&*@*^ gaurd. 7 stitches across my chin, temporarily shifted teeth, barf.gif . Never again! I'm still coming to terms with running a cut off wheel at all. Only high quality disks now and never without a full faced helmet and guard installed on the machine. I'm just lucky it didn't hit my flimsy ass safety glasses. Ignore ALL the car shows on TV who never use a guard on their cut-off wheels! Take it as a warning guys, it sucks !

Posted by: jcd914 Apr 4 2018, 01:38 AM

Cut off wheels can be dangerous, always wear saftey gear.

I have had a few self destruct but only got minor nicks and cuts from them.

I did slip once and cut open my wrist with a cut off wheel.

Very little blood, the wheel cauterized the wound.

Pretty weird to look inside your wrist and see the tendons and such.

My friend with me was looking pretty green around the edges.

Drove myself to the urgent care clinic and got 10 stiches, no damage other than the skin.

Damn lucky, no gloves and probably no eye protection.

In a hurry late on a Wednesday night prepping a car for the track.

Dumb luck!

Jim

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 4 2018, 03:46 PM

The shelves are all done, the steel really helped. Happy I found a use for the hot rolled stuff.


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Posted by: euro911 Apr 5 2018, 12:32 AM

Looking good, Adam shades.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 7 2018, 10:00 AM

Nothing this week, I went to Wray's shop to work on the 550. I did get to meet Chris AKA tygaboy, that was fun. I always like when you can meet people you know online. That's why I love events like Hershey, actually meeting people, remember that?

I finished the lower panels on the 550 and started on the dash, which was kicking my arse, so luckily I ran out of day because I was running out of patience....

Luckily for me, Wray has his students working on the car too, so I don't have to try and tackle every inch of the car myself. Like that front fender, was done out of one piece of aluminum, stretches your brain a little to think about. Glad I didn't have to tackle that part.
Next week, back on the 904, it's like having two mistresses.


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Posted by: restore2seater Apr 7 2018, 10:35 AM

What's the purpose of the orange tape?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 7 2018, 10:39 AM

QUOTE(restore2seater @ Apr 7 2018, 08:35 AM) *

What's the purpose of the orange tape?

So you can see the wire form, it's hard to see without it.


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Posted by: 73-914 Apr 7 2018, 01:07 PM

Looking good Adam

Posted by: r_towle Apr 7 2018, 02:37 PM

Where is that shop?
I want to take a class there.

rich

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 7 2018, 05:12 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Apr 7 2018, 12:37 PM) *

Where is that shop?
I want to take a class there.

rich


Rich,
The commute for you would probably be way better than it is for me. Wray's shop is in Charlton, MA.

www.proshaper.com

Anyone who wants to learn something new should take the class.

Posted by: 914forme Apr 7 2018, 07:50 PM

agree.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 7 2018, 09:38 PM

Hi Adam - Good to meet you, too. We just wrapped up the 2nd day of the class and pretty much the parts each of us were making also kicked our asses. It's really challenging, interesting and fun. Absolutely fascinating to work that flat piece of metal into something "automotively beautifully".
Your 550 was getting all sorts of love today, however, I was working on the Maserati 300S. I'll post pics of the adventure under a different thread.
Again, great to meet you and best of luck with both builds!
Chris

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 3 2018, 09:46 PM

Well, I had planned to work on the 904 this week but other Porsches intervened. First the 993 blew up in my driveway, it actually just backfired, but it was enough to blow all the hoses off, so that sucked up a big part of a day dealing with it. Then today I flipped a coin and decided to drive to Wray's to work on the 550. Now that most of the outer panels are done it's really starting to take shape. I worked on the dash today and yes, every dash panel you see was formed by me, you can check my hairy arms in the pics!

More 904 updates next week, I promise.


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Posted by: Dougster May 3 2018, 10:18 PM

"914/904 Project Begins" ... but after 41 pages, has it actually begun? confused24.gif
All this other stuff is cool but I keep hoping a 904 will start taking shape in this thread.

Posted by: porschetub May 4 2018, 12:52 AM

Yes me too its all about self promotion with lots pics of himself,gets flack on here and Pelican,don't know but appears folks don't like flippers,all those parts and never offers any for sale on here yet there is a market for them.
Recent attempts to weld panels in to the bastard child have resulted in lots of responses none that really say ''great work" Adam,as for rolling alloy panels that's only for very skilled people with decades of experience,appears not to be showing so far in the 914 ?
Don't try to be something you aren't and stop trying to impress folks man ,we are all born equal,even under the worse flaming you seem like a reasonable guy...think about that.
Rant over....get back to the car you started with.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 4 2018, 04:42 AM

QUOTE(porschetub @ May 3 2018, 10:52 PM) *

Yes me too its all about self promotion with lots pics of himself,gets flack on here and Pelican,don't know but appears folks don't like flippers,all those parts and never offers any for sale on here yet there is a market for them.
Recent attempts to weld panels in to the bastard child have resulted in lots of responses none that really say ''great work" Adam,as for rolling alloy panels that's only for very skilled people with decades of experience,appears not to be showing so far in the 914 ?
Don't try to be something you aren't and stop trying to impress folks man ,we are all born equal,even under the worse flaming you seem like a reasonable guy...think about that.
Rant over....get back to the car you started with.

For the record, you are half correct, I don't offer parts for sale on this board, but I have given away two 914 engines on this board for FREE, as well as offered free 914 parts that are surplus to my needs at the Ski Roundtop Swap Meet every year.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=273901&hl=free


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=292520&hl=free

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=316246&hl=free

Posted by: Steve May 4 2018, 08:47 AM

Hey.. look a squirrel... how’s the 904 project coming along? Just curious..

Posted by: Larmo63 May 4 2018, 08:57 AM

He should call it the 9014.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 4 2018, 09:12 AM

A couple of points I want to touch on.
1. How much of the car have I personally made? This has been a behind the scenes joke that maybe I'm just paying someone to make me a 550 body, and I watch. Of the panels you see on the car I've made 12 of them. Wray has made some and his students have made some.
2. Why do I jump from project to project? There are forces beyond my control with the 550, I have been at the mercy of Wray's schedule, the work done on the wire frame, and I have to couple all that with my busy schedule, I'm on the road a lot getting cars and it's like being a fisherman, when the fish are biting, you're catching fish.

So in a perfect world I wouldn't have to make a living and I could work on my projects full time, trust me I would love that. But I make time when I can and have to work that around other people's schedules. For example, if my wife has to work late I have to get the kids after school, so obviously that isn't a day I can drive 4 hours to Mass and work on the 550.

So all jokes aside, that is why I'm forced to jump back and forth from project to project and no, I'm not just paying someone to build me a body. Can we move on now?

Posted by: 73-914 May 4 2018, 09:25 AM

Bravo

Posted by: Steve May 4 2018, 09:53 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ May 4 2018, 08:12 AM) *

A couple of points I want to touch on.
1. How much of the car have I personally made? This has been a behind the scenes joke that maybe I'm just paying someone to make me a 550 body, and I watch. Of the panels you see on the car I've made 12 of them. Wray has made some and his students have made some.
2. Why do I jump from project to project? There are forces beyond my control with the 550, I have been at the mercy of Wray's schedule, the work done on the wire frame, and I have to couple all that with my busy schedule, I'm on the road a lot getting cars and it's like being a fisherman, when the fish are biting, you're catching fish.

So in a perfect world I wouldn't have to make a living and I could work on my projects full time, trust me I would love that. But I make time when I can and have to work that around other people's schedules. For example, if my wife has to work late I have to get the kids after school, so obviously that isn't a day I can drive 4 hours to Mass and work on the 550.

So all jokes aside, that is why I'm forced to jump back and forth from project to project and no, I'm not just paying someone to build me a body. Can we move on now?

I was just curious, since this thread is labeled 914-6/904 project begins and it had a bunch of other stuff in it. Maybe you should start another thread with your day job. Both are interesting and No, i am not one of the ones that are harassing you about your 904 build. I find all builds interesting.

Posted by: wingnut86 May 4 2018, 10:13 AM

Sorry I missed all the fun Adam & folks ( that's "people" for all the non-Southerners beer.gif ).

I too, have no dog in the hunt, as I'm minus 914s & tooling now that I gifted Blackie, jigs & Tools to the local H. School tech program.

Adam - carry on my good man.

When I buy my 1st 3 rotted out sailboats (new hobby), I'll send you images of my fine work! bs.gif

You folks take care & enjoy his craftsmanship for the purity that my millennial son will never have blink.gif

Posted by: bbrock May 4 2018, 11:12 AM

QUOTE(wingnut86 @ May 4 2018, 10:13 AM) *

Sorry I missed all the fun Adam & folks ( that's "people" for all the non-Southerners beer.gif ).

Huh. My dictionary must be out of date:

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Posted by: TJB/914 May 4 2018, 12:18 PM

Adam.

I call you the "Hot & Sour Adam" Some like you & some don't & your workmanship is excellent pray.gif It's a learning process what can be done with metal. w00t.gif smash.gif popcorn[1].gif smilie_pokal.gif Never give up. piratenanner.gif

Tom

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 4 2018, 12:36 PM

QUOTE(wingnut86 @ May 4 2018, 08:13 AM) *

Sorry I missed all the fun Adam & folks ( that's "people" for all the non-Southerners beer.gif ).

I too, have no dog in the hunt, as I'm minus 914s & tooling now that I gifted Blackie, jigs & Tools to the local H. School tech program.

Adam - carry on my good man.

When I buy my 1st 3 rotted out sailboats (new hobby), I'll send you images of my fine work! bs.gif

You folks take care & enjoy his craftsmanship for the purity that my millennial son will never have blink.gif


Growing up in Atlanta it's good to hear someone talk southern, we don't hear much South Cakalaka speak in NY. Keep it comin'!
Do they still check your hearing in SC?
"Ya'll come back now, ya hear?"

Posted by: Dougster May 4 2018, 01:29 PM

..and another page down with nothing 904 related. Let's keep it going, we may break some kind of record. Maybe there's a shot of an old lawnmower being repaired that can be added or something? anything to disappoint the 904 lovers out there, when they see this thread towards the top of the list biggrin.gif


Posted by: SirAndy May 4 2018, 04:49 PM

QUOTE(Dougster @ May 4 2018, 12:29 PM) *
Let's keep it going, we may break some kind of record.

Not even close ...

If you added 7500 more pages(!)(Yes, pages, each with 20 posts) to this thread it would still be just #2
blink.gif

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 May 4 2018, 05:07 PM

I'm impressed by the wire forms, let alone a panel shaped to fit correctly.

I always jump in looking for 904 progress and am usually disappointed. sad.gif

Posted by: euro911 May 4 2018, 06:48 PM

QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 4 2018, 03:49 PM) *
QUOTE(Dougster @ May 4 2018, 12:29 PM) *
Let's keep it going, we may break some kind of record.
Not even close ...

If you added 7500 more pages(!)(Yes, pages, each with 20 posts) to this thread it would still be just #2
blink.gif
Who's thread has over 7,500 pages? confused24.gif ... inquiring minds would like to know popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: altitude411 May 4 2018, 08:12 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ May 4 2018, 05:48 PM) *

QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 4 2018, 03:49 PM) *
QUOTE(Dougster @ May 4 2018, 12:29 PM) *
Let's keep it going, we may break some kind of record.
Not even close ...

If you added 7500 more pages(!)(Yes, pages, each with 20 posts) to this thread it would still be just #2
blink.gif
Who's thread has over 7,500 pages? confused24.gif ... inquiring minds would like to know popcorn[1].gif


Well, not so much a thread ... more of a collection. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=90964

Posted by: euro911 May 4 2018, 08:59 PM

Ah ha ...

Posted by: Lucky9146 May 4 2018, 09:21 PM

I check this thread occasionally and after reading the last few pages I see the problem.
Not enough 904 content!
I offer up this picture as an effort in that regard. biggrin.gif
white914.jpg


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 4 2018, 09:31 PM

Ok, since everyone is clamoring for more 904 content, I can share the car I am using as kind of a guide for my build. 904-0031.
I've documented probably about a third of production in pictures but 0031 is my favorite, not a restored queen, more of a dirty track car.
Let me know what you think.


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Posted by: Lucky9146 May 4 2018, 09:46 PM

A wonderful vision to be sure!
Probably the only car I would want to build would be a 904 so I am envious.
Finishing my car kicked my ass for some time to come.
Your build will be no small feat and many here want to cheer you on. Good success with the project and focus. beerchug.gif
white914.jpg

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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 4 2018, 10:33 PM

This is actually my favorite 904 picture, it was given to me by Gerry McCarthy, a dear friend who died a few years ago. He knew more about Porsches than anyone I've ever known. A graduate of the one and only Porsche Carrera School that was held in the back of Max Hoffman's, Gerry knew his stuff but more importantly was happy to share his knowledge. This is him racing with Herb Wetson back in the day.

His shop was legendary.

RIP Gerry.


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Posted by: Spoke May 4 2018, 10:58 PM

Cool pics.

Posted by: porschetub May 5 2018, 02:18 AM

Never seen an aircleaner setup like that a 904 ,is that a streetable setup,road legal examples I have seen don't use those ,not like theres a lot around to check biggrin.gif .
Anyone picked up on the build a UK guy did on Pelican not too long ago ?,amazing car built off factory drawing for frame and glass panels.
Sorry don't have the link bugger ,cause would like to see it again.

Posted by: Edward Blume May 5 2018, 07:22 AM

QUOTE(Spoke @ May 4 2018, 09:58 PM) *

Cool pics.

agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 5 2018, 07:39 AM

QUOTE(porschetub @ May 5 2018, 12:18 AM) *

Never seen an aircleaner setup like that a 904 ,is that a streetable setup,road legal examples I have seen don't use those ,not like theres a lot around to check biggrin.gif .
Anyone picked up on the build a UK guy did on Pelican not too long ago ?,amazing car built off factory drawing for frame and glass panels.
Sorry don't have the link bugger ,cause would like to see it again.

I think you're onto something. Looks to be the street version. The only other car I can find is 0025, which I think was Sir Stirling Moss' street 904.



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Posted by: 73-914 May 5 2018, 10:12 AM

Awesome pics + the Cookie cutters are gr8 hehehe

Posted by: sixnotfour May 5 2018, 10:21 AM

biggrin.gif 914904


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc May 5 2018, 12:08 PM

QUOTE(porschetub @ May 5 2018, 12:18 AM) *

Never seen an aircleaner setup like that a 904 ,is that a streetable setup,road legal examples I have seen don't use those ,not like theres a lot around to check biggrin.gif .
Anyone picked up on the build a UK guy did on Pelican not too long ago ?,amazing car built off factory drawing for frame and glass panels.
Sorry don't have the link bugger ,cause would like to see it again.

0031 did do some time on the track though, so who knows. I know they were experimenting throughout the program, trying this and that, so who knows.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Aug 17 2018, 10:14 AM

Ok, so the 550 is now at a good stopping point, I can jump back on the 904. If only we didn't have to have jobs, think of the things we could all do!!!




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Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 17 2018, 10:53 PM

I think your project should be called the 9014.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 1 2018, 05:32 PM

Ok, back at it, now that the Roadster is out of paint, the Mustang is pretty much done and the 550 is at a good stopping point, I will have some time to get back to the 904. I had a good day today, I just need to get the pics done.
Here are some highlights of the other cars.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 1 2018, 05:34 PM

Finished Roadster.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 1 2018, 06:00 PM

Ok, I worked on the driver's side fender well today, forward of the shock tower. It was a tricky piece because it had two curves, which fought each other in the shaping process. I was able to get shape it and get it welded in place.
Look for more updates on the regular now that my other cars are done or able to be back burnered and with the selling season closing fast. Long cold NY winter days are perfect for beating metal!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 6 2018, 06:12 PM

Ok, selling season is officially over, so the personal car fun can go full swing. I was able to shape the rest of the inner fender today, it actually went pretty smooth. I plan to work on it again tomorrow, so stay tuned for welding.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 7 2018, 02:46 PM

Ok, my hands hurt from pounding metal, but I got most of the fender shaped and welded in. It's ugly but I'm going for strength of the shock tower over beauty. All of this will be covered up by the fiberglass body so unless someone is reading this years from now the work I'm doing now will never see the light of day once the body is on.
Hopefully the passenger side will go faster. That's usually the way it works for me, 1st one is slow, 2nd one is faster.

Feels good to be working on the car again. Anyone ever think about how much we could all get done on our cars if we didn't have to have jobs?

Happy holidays everybody!




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Posted by: mb911 Dec 7 2018, 02:58 PM

My question is why not just keep it simple and use sharp 90s.. Way easier and if its hidden under glass does the same thing.

Example is this GT oil cockpit cover. Very simple and effective. Attached Image

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 7 2018, 03:13 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 7 2018, 12:58 PM) *

My question is why not just keep it simple and use sharp 90s.. Way easier and if its hidden under glass does the same thing.

Example is this GT oil cockpit cover. Very simple and effective. Attached Image

You mean use 90 degree right angles instead of shaping the metal in a curve? If that's what you're asking, I'm trying to squeeze maximum space in the wheel well. it's going to be very tight since I lowered the tower and changed the pickup on the strut.
If that's not what you're asking let me know.


Posted by: mb911 Dec 7 2018, 03:25 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 7 2018, 01:13 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 7 2018, 12:58 PM) *

My question is why not just keep it simple and use sharp 90s.. Way easier and if its hidden under glass does the same thing.

Example is this GT oil cockpit cover. Very simple and effective.

You mean use 90 degree right angles instead of shaping the metal in a curve? If that's what you're asking, I'm trying to squeeze maximum space in the wheel well. it's going to be very tight since I lowered the tower and changed the pickup on the strut.
If that's not what you're asking let me know.



Yes thats what I meant.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 20 2018, 09:17 PM

I got some work done today, finished up the driver's side fender, and was able to move onto the passenger side. I was on the road yesterday and it ended up being a 16 hour day, so I wasn't at 100% today, hopefully I'll get some good time in tomorrow, stay tuned and happy holidays!


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Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 21 2018, 04:05 PM

Have you ever tried a palm nailer for shaping?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 21 2018, 04:53 PM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Dec 21 2018, 02:05 PM) *

Have you ever tried a palm nailer for shaping?

No, what is it?

Posted by: 914forme Dec 22 2018, 12:25 PM

It is used for nailing framing in tight spaces. It is a small hammer in the palm of your hand driven by air. You make a head for the end of it, lots of people use a carriage bolt. This person went all out.

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http://autobodystore.com/forum/showthread.php?20207-Can-anyone-recommend-a-good-air-craft-rivet-gun-for-metal-working

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 22 2018, 12:39 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Dec 22 2018, 10:25 AM) *

It is used for nailing framing in tight spaces. It is a small hammer in the palm of your hand driven by air. You make a head for the end of it, lots of people use a carriage bolt. This person went all out.

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http://autobodystore.com/forum/showthread.php?20207-Can-anyone-recommend-a-good-air-craft-rivet-gun-for-metal-working

So it's like a small power hammer when you convert it for metal shaping?

Posted by: bbrock Dec 22 2018, 12:49 PM

You can also use a rivet gun with the same type of head. Look up "flow forming rivet gun" on Youtube for some good videos.

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 22 2018, 01:42 PM

Actually for use in tight quarters when framing with a nail gun or hammer won't work. The little Tico nails that usually result in pain. You stick a nail in the biz end and simply push. The nail drives in with no smashed fingers. You substitute a carriage bolt or other as shown in that link. Watching John Kelly, who used to sell shrinking discs also, move metal around with one was amazing. He would back up the area to be worked with a leather bag filled with sand.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 23 2018, 02:03 PM

So I got up before the sun today to get some time in on the car. The passenger side fender was not going my way. I shrank, and shrank, twisted, bent, wheeled, hammered, and it was changing shape, but not getting me where I wanted. I was about to scrap the piece and start over, but I walked away for a few minutes. I looked at it a different way, worked it and it just laid there, like it was made to go there, which it was.
Made it home in time for lunch, chicken wings with Max, since I ate his chicken wings last night, I made it up to him today.

Happy Holidays everybody!



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 23 2018, 02:05 PM

More pics.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 24 2018, 02:18 PM

I went in early this morning. Big John plans to work the whole week so I had to get him started on a few projects. I did the back part of the passenger fender. I got it shaped and welded in but it's still a little rough. I could only squeeze out a half day, my wife said something about it being a holiday and people were coming over.

Happy Holidays!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 24 2018, 02:19 PM

More pics.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 26 2018, 11:57 PM

Today was kind of a strange day, lots of panels made, but no welding. Why no welding? Big John was putting floors in a 356B and we have one welder. It's one thing to say you're going to work on your own car and not make any money that day, it's quite another to hog the welder and not have your employee make any money either, so he got the welder and I got the hammer today. Tomorrow I'm by myself so lots of frying bacon!
Happy New Year!



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 26 2018, 11:58 PM

More pics.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 27 2018, 02:38 PM

Ok, with all the panels I did yesterday it was nothing but frying bacon today. Of course, welding upside down in a wheel well with drips is no fun, but no pants on fire. I've done that, it sucks!
I have one more inner panel to do tomorrow on the passenger side inner wheel well, then my mechanic Rick is coming over on Sunday to help put all the suspension back on. If I can finish up the back shock towers on Friday I can move the car next week and do the center cut, which is terrifying, cutting 5 inches out of the middle of the car.

Happy New Year!


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Posted by: restore2seater Dec 27 2018, 03:34 PM

I'm trying to get an understanding of what you're using the metal tubing for. Are you going to be using it for some type of reinforcement?

Is what you have been piecing together for the inner fender top going to be used as reinforcement?

Having a hard time seeing where you're going with your fabrication. I guess I don't understand why you cut so much of the factory inner fender out to begin with.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 27 2018, 04:59 PM

QUOTE(restore2seater @ Dec 27 2018, 01:34 PM) *

I'm trying to get an understanding of what you're using the metal tubing for. Are you going to be using it for some type of reinforcement?

Is what you have been piecing together for the inner fender top going to be used as reinforcement?

Having a hard time seeing where you're going with your fabrication. I guess I don't understand why you cut so much of the factory inner fender out to begin with.


The metal tubing is left over from the complete roll cage that went through the whole car. I left it thinking I could tie back into it for reinforcement, if needed.

I had to cut the tops off the original inner fender when I dropped the shocks about 3 inches. The stock front on the 914 was far too high to find under the 904 bodywork. I would have liked to have kept more of the inner fender, it would have saved me a lot of fabrication, but I cut it as close as I could.



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Posted by: bretth Dec 27 2018, 06:10 PM

Very cool. Need to learn this metal shaping voodoo magic someday myself.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 27 2018, 06:24 PM

QUOTE(bretth @ Dec 27 2018, 04:10 PM) *

Very cool. Need to learn this metal shaping voodoo magic someday myself.


You should take Wray's class, it's life changing.

www.proshaper.com

He does it every month.


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Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 28 2018, 12:47 AM

no comparison... sorry.. love your effort ..butt

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 28 2018, 06:16 AM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 27 2018, 10:47 PM) *

no comparison... sorry.. love your effort ..butt

Not sure what you're saying here, could you be more specific?


Posted by: restore2seater Dec 28 2018, 11:11 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 27 2018, 04:59 PM) *

QUOTE(restore2seater @ Dec 27 2018, 01:34 PM) *

I'm trying to get an understanding of what you're using the metal tubing for. Are you going to be using it for some type of reinforcement?

Is what you have been piecing together for the inner fender top going to be used as reinforcement?

Having a hard time seeing where you're going with your fabrication. I guess I don't understand why you cut so much of the factory inner fender out to begin with.


The metal tubing is left over from the complete roll cage that went through the whole car. I left it thinking I could tie back into it for reinforcement, if needed.

I had to cut the tops off the original inner fender when I dropped the shocks about 3 inches. The stock front on the 914 was far too high to find under the 904 bodywork. I would have liked to have kept more of the inner fender, it would have saved me a lot of fabrication, but I cut it as close as I could.


OK, I went back in the thread about a year to see where this started. I had forgotten you had cut the center section between the frunk and fuel tank area. Your current pictures are close ups of the top ridge of that section and I didn't realize that part had been lowered.

So in Wray's class you used wire forms. Why not use them now for shaping the fender well?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 28 2018, 02:12 PM

QUOTE(restore2seater @ Dec 28 2018, 09:11 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 27 2018, 04:59 PM) *

QUOTE(restore2seater @ Dec 27 2018, 01:34 PM) *

I'm trying to get an understanding of what you're using the metal tubing for. Are you going to be using it for some type of reinforcement?

Is what you have been piecing together for the inner fender top going to be used as reinforcement?

Having a hard time seeing where you're going with your fabrication. I guess I don't understand why you cut so much of the factory inner fender out to begin with.


The metal tubing is left over from the complete roll cage that went through the whole car. I left it thinking I could tie back into it for reinforcement, if needed.

I had to cut the tops off the original inner fender when I dropped the shocks about 3 inches. The stock front on the 914 was far too high to find under the 904 bodywork. I would have liked to have kept more of the inner fender, it would have saved me a lot of fabrication, but I cut it as close as I could.


OK, I went back in the thread about a year to see where this started. I had forgotten you had cut the center section between the frunk and fuel tank area. Your current pictures are close ups of the top ridge of that section and I didn't realize that part had been lowered.

So in Wray's class you used wire forms. Why not use them now for shaping the fender well?

I would have is this area was cosmetic, but it's going to get covered up with fiberglass. I went with a heavier metal, harder to shape, but strength over beauty. Because I went with thicker steel I was able to turn the welder up and get some really good welds, ugly welds, but really good penetration.

Happy New Year!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 28 2018, 06:40 PM

Reached a good spot today, the fenders are 98% done. My mechanic Rick is coming over to the shop on Sunday to help me set up the front suspension. I even put the new tires on the wheels, very exciting. Hopefully next week the car will be on it's own feet for the first time in a couple of years, then it will be sliced in half like the lady in an old magician routine.

Happy New Year!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 28 2018, 06:42 PM

A few more shots. I even played around with the headlight covers, fun times are beginning.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 28 2018, 08:24 PM

Found an old pic of the car when it was put out to pasture the first time around.


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Posted by: Larmo63 Dec 28 2018, 10:06 PM

This is a hard thread to follow and not comment on negatively.

I'm not a mean person so I won't comment.

I think I just commented. screwy.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 28 2018, 10:21 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 28 2018, 08:06 PM) *

This is a hard thread to follow and not comment on negatively.

I'm not a mean person so I won't comment.

I think I just commented. screwy.gif

Oh, by all means, grow a pair and comment, it will serve you way better than side of your mouth comments. But more importantly, if you don't like what you're seeing or reading, don't follow, don't comment, or in your case half comment. Lots of people on this board are enjoying this build, I'm enjoying this build, you obviously aren't, so please go away.

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 29 2018, 02:48 AM

the pics of yours are when it got restored to the yellow version,,, hardly out to pasture

you are making history,, another chapter,,you cant change the past

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Dec 29 2018, 07:52 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 28 2018, 08:21 PM) *

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 28 2018, 08:06 PM) *

This is a hard thread to follow and not comment on negatively.

I'm not a mean person so I won't comment.

I think I just commented. screwy.gif

Oh, by all means, grow a pair and comment, it will serve you way better than side of your mouth comments. But more importantly, if you don't like what you're seeing or reading, don't follow, don't comment, or in your case half comment. Lots of people on this board are enjoying this build, I'm enjoying this build, you obviously aren't, so please go away.


yeah, what Adam said . . . there are lots others enjoying what he's doing here as well, so bug off!

Posted by: Larmo63 Dec 29 2018, 01:01 PM

This car will end up here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=335192&st=0

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 29 2018, 01:32 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 29 2018, 11:01 AM) *

This car will end up here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=335192&st=0

I never understand this kind of mentality. It's one thing to find a long lost picture of a car and say, "wow, someone had a dream." but it's quite another to post on someone's build thread that their car is a POS. Why would you do that? Does it make you feel cool to bash someone's car? Are you one of those guy's who goes on forum's to talk tough and rip people's cars apart and then hide behind a fake name and picture?
WTF is wrong with you?
Forum's like this are here to encourage other people and share idea's, bring knowledge, see where someone else can take an idea. Only weak people go on forum's to smash other people's ideas, make snide comments. So Larmo63 who wants to look like Clint, don't be a weak person. If you don't like my build, don't click on it. I've put hundreds of hours of work and thousands of dollar's into this build and I didn't do it so little weak fake name forum troll's could tear it apart because they don't see my vision.
Guy's like this love to pick my build apart because I'm in unchartered territory. So I shouldn't try something just because I've never done it before, how is that any way to live. I bet the same people told Porsche this in the early 50's when they went and built a race car, the 550. Guess what they made some big mistakes, remember the 550 that went off the bowl at Avus and burst into flames because their experiment with the suspension went wrong? Well guess what, those same engineer's that the likes of Ferrari laughed at won at the Targa Florio a few years later. But had they listened to the shit talkers they never would have tried anything outside their comfort zone.
So how about all you guy's like Larmo63 just stop looking, stop posting, stop the negativity, it just makes you look weak and small minded. I'm going to keep building my dream car, because that's what I'm doing, building a dream, why can't a few trolls just stay in their holes, I don't know, but I really wish they would. Because guess what, if I build something wrong, I'll fix it, and try again, that's what men do, they go outside their comfort zone and build something even when people say they can't, or shouldn't, if you can't respect that, please just go away.


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Posted by: 73-914 Dec 29 2018, 05:41 PM

Well said Adam

Posted by: Mike Bellis Dec 29 2018, 09:09 PM

Just build it already! What's done is done. It's your car. Just work faster so we can see more pics...

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 29 2018, 09:11 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Dec 29 2018, 07:09 PM) *

Just build it already! What's done is done. It's your car. Just work faster so we can see more pics...

I'm on it Mike, going into the shop at 7AM tomorrow, really!

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Dec 29 2018, 09:37 PM

Is it me, or is this becoming an east coast/west coast thing? Let the guy make his car. If you like it post, if you think he did something wrong, post about that. If you think the whole thing is an abomination make a thread about torturing ex-racecars, or something.
WTF!

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 29 2018, 11:36 PM

let him have at it,, all the shit he post is fuel to the fire ..it ain't no 550 ..no 356 whatever ..its his wet dream .diluted with other p-car pics....its not a 914 anymore

Sandbox

Posted by: Dave_Darling Dec 30 2018, 12:18 AM

QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Dec 29 2018, 07:37 PM) *

Is it me, or is this becoming an east coast/west coast thing?


Not literally. Mike is a west coast guy, as well as Larmo...

Metaphorically? Could be.

--DD

Posted by: euro911 Dec 30 2018, 01:02 AM

Regardless which coast anyone resides on, the negative BS isn't the way gentlemen should act.

Same thing goes for the Harley community ... if you don't like what someone has done with their bike, you just don't say anything cool_shades.gif

Posted by: Mike Bellis Dec 30 2018, 01:57 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Dec 29 2018, 10:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Dec 29 2018, 07:37 PM) *

Is it me, or is this becoming an east coast/west coast thing?


Not literally. Mike is a west coast guy, as well as Larmo...

Metaphorically? Could be.

--DD

Let's drag up a NorCal / SoCal thing...

Really, I don't care what Adam builds. I wish the original 914 race car could have been saved but that's water under the bridge. I just want to see the finished product. It's still going to be a cool ride with tons of man hours into creating it. I love seeing fab work and the creativity of the members.

All the haters need to chill. It's his car, let him build it his way.

Posted by: sb914 Dec 30 2018, 07:59 AM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 29 2018, 11:01 AM) *

This car will end up here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=335192&st=0

owned.gif av-943.gif

Posted by: sb914 Dec 30 2018, 08:00 AM

QUOTE(sb914 @ Dec 30 2018, 05:59 AM) *

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 29 2018, 11:01 AM) *

This car will end up here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=335192&st=0

Larmo got owned.gif av-943.gif


Posted by: Krieger Dec 30 2018, 09:50 AM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Dec 29 2018, 11:57 PM) *

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Dec 29 2018, 10:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Dec 29 2018, 07:37 PM) *

Is it me, or is this becoming an east coast/west coast thing?


Not literally. Mike is a west coast guy, as well as Larmo...

Metaphorically? Could be.

--DD

Let's drag up a NorCal / SoCal thing...

Really, I don't care what Adam builds. I wish the original 914 race car could have been saved but that's water under the bridge. I just want to see the finished product. It's still going to be a cool ride with tons of man hours into creating it. I love seeing fab work and the creativity of the members.

All the haters need to chill. It's his car, let him build it his way.


agree.gif A few of you guys need to move on with your life!

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 30 2018, 11:57 AM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Dec 29 2018, 11:57 PM) *
Let's drag up a NorCal / SoCal thing...

You ain't NorCal, you are MidCal ...
poke.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 30 2018, 03:44 PM

So the day started out rough, un-scheduled snow storm, no plows, no tire tracks, just me and the 4WD. Made it in ok, it actually got a little better when I crossed the river.
Rick was a big help, we got one strut together and the other one we hit a snag, but progress was made. Also got to play around with fitting the body, that's always fun. I might have to get rid of the big brakes that are on the car, if I want to run normal wheels they won't clear over the huge racing calipers, but they will stay for right now.
Oh, and it wouldn't be a day of wrenching, unless I busted a knuckle...

Happy New Year-
Adam



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Posted by: tomeric914 Dec 30 2018, 04:43 PM

Hey Adam, was the 904 body kit intended for use with the 914 chassis or something else? Sorry in advance if you have already stated this in an earlier thread.

Posted by: 73-914 Dec 30 2018, 04:54 PM

the Auto gods always demand blood

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 30 2018, 05:00 PM

QUOTE(tomeric914 @ Dec 30 2018, 02:43 PM) *

Hey Adam, was the 904 body kit intended for use with the 914 chassis or something else? Sorry in advance if you have already stated this in an earlier thread.

No, that was my idea, the guy who makes them just copied an original body, but no plans for a frame. I think he made a tube frame for his. I was talking to Chuck Beck about using a 914, and he said you can't, the shock towers are too high. I told him I was lowering the shock towers, he mumbled something about me being crazy.
There is a place in the UK that I think has the original frame jigs and will make you a frame, but it is probably pretty pricey.


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Posted by: euro911 Dec 31 2018, 12:42 AM

Looks like you're going to have to rework the inner wheel wells to match the arch on the 904's wheel openings?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 31 2018, 06:15 AM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Dec 30 2018, 10:42 PM) *

Looks like you're going to have to rework the inner wheel wells to match the arch on the 904's wheel openings?

Yeah, the whole front will drop some more so it will bridge the gap some, but yes I think some more re-shaping will be in order. Another reason I didn't strive for perfection when I was doing them the first time, I was pretty sure it would be a work in progress. I won't really know where everything needs to be until the suspension is completely set up and the body in it's final spot.

Happy New Year everybody!

Posted by: 73-914 Dec 31 2018, 07:33 AM

Happy New Year Adam

Posted by: jmitro Jan 1 2019, 09:56 AM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Dec 30 2018, 01:57 AM) *
Really, I don't care what Adam builds. I wish the original 914 race car could have been saved but that's water under the bridge. I just want to see the finished product. It's still going to be a cool ride with tons of man hours into creating it. I love seeing fab work and the creativity of the members.

All the haters need to chill. It's his car, let him build it his way.


+1

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 4 2019, 06:15 PM

Nothing big this week, other than saying goodbye to the big brakes. In order to keep them I would have to run the super big wheels, and with the narrow body it wouldn't really work. So the big brakes are going and stock brakes are going on, they are 80's 911 SC/Carrera brakes, so still plenty of stopping power. Though I will miss the big ones, they were just so big!
Also, Rick can't help me this weekend, he is skiing, oh well. Next week more progress.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Feb 3 2019, 08:07 PM

I was able to avoid a Sunday party that my wife went to today and got some time in on the car. I was able to get the front suspension done. Keep in mind the shock is completely out of adjustment, but you get the idea.
Hoping to get the car back on it's feet this week than the last big cut, right down the center of the car. I had to say goodbye to the big brakes today.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Feb 7 2019, 03:42 PM

Ok, today was kind of monumental, the car is back on it's feet for the first time in several years. I put the wheels on and dropped it off the lift. Now I can move it into the main work area and start the final chassis work. A good day!
Also, bye-bye big brakes, anyone need some Wildwood big brakes?


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Posted by: bretth Feb 7 2019, 07:26 PM

I wonder if you'll need to change out the master cylinder to match the new brakes. Keep on truckin.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Feb 8 2019, 11:03 AM

QUOTE(bretth @ Feb 7 2019, 05:26 PM) *

I wonder if you'll need to change out the master cylinder to match the new brakes. Keep on truckin.

I may have to. The plan was to get it rolling again, finish the chassis cuts, and then take it back to the mechanic to hook everything back up and make changes where needed. Oh, and headaches like shortening the shifter, or moving the oil tank closer in. This project gets ever more complicated as time goes on. I realized in March I will have been working on it for 4 years!
At this rate I don't have to buy another project for the rest of my life because I still have to finish the 550. Then I have the A Coupe that won at Daytona, then I have King Hussein's 911. I can see my future...


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Posted by: gearhead4111 Apr 17 2020, 04:31 PM

Holy Shit!!!!!!

Did that ever get finished????




QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 12 2015, 10:49 AM) *

The 914 race car arrived today, the 904 body is half built, but should be here soon. Very exciting!


Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 17 2020, 05:22 PM

QUOTE(gearhead4111 @ Apr 17 2020, 02:31 PM) *

Holy Shit!!!!!!

Did that ever get finished????




QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Mar 12 2015, 10:49 AM) *

The 914 race car arrived today, the 904 body is half built, but should be here soon. Very exciting!


It's been on the back burner for a year, I went full steam ahead on my 550 project, it's now at a stoping point so in May I''m jumping back on the 904. I'm dropping the chassis for the 550 off at a friend's place to get it running and driving, I told him I don't want to see it for a year at least, so I can get really back into the 904 project, it's like having two girlfriends, with my job being my wife!
Stay tuned.



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Posted by: r_towle Apr 17 2020, 07:33 PM

That storage rack seems way to sturdy!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 17 2020, 08:19 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Apr 17 2020, 05:33 PM) *

That storage rack seems way to sturdy!

Lucky for me, aluminum is lite!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 12 2020, 01:50 PM

Ok, finally caught up at the shop with all the Covid backlog, now I can spend some time on my projects.
Started cutting the sides down in anticipation of the big cut, shortening the body.

Got the driver's side where I wanted it. I'm hoping I can retain the jack spur, it would be nice to have a hard jack point.

Feels good to get back to work, almost back to normal, at least the shop is, not the outside world, normal is far off there.

Our selling season is over so I can concentrate on long term shop projects and my projects until Spring, so expect weekly updates moving forward.


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Posted by: MM1 Nov 12 2020, 02:40 PM

Glad to have stumbled on this thread - I'm on board now!

smash.gif welder.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 12 2020, 02:43 PM

Got the passenger side done, and like most things on cars, the other side goes twice as fast as the first!

It feels really good to be humping this car again. Here's to a little bit of normal!!!! beerchug.gif beerchug.gif beerchug.gif


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Posted by: Bruce Hinds Nov 12 2020, 04:28 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Nov 12 2020, 01:43 PM) *

Got the passenger side done, and like most things on cars, the other side goes twice as fast as the first!

It feels really good to be humping this car again. Here's to a little bit of normal!!!! beerchug.gif beerchug.gif beerchug.gif


I was just wondering where this project has been. Welcome back . . .

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 19 2020, 05:45 PM

Nothing crazy today, just clearing the car for the big day tomorrow. Tomorrow we cut, the car in half! The day I've been both wanting and dreading. In order to make the 904 body fit I have to take 5 inches out of the length.
More updates tomorrow!


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Posted by: bretth Nov 19 2020, 06:07 PM

Big John gonna karate chop that thing in half? smile.gif Those are some long rear suspension plates on the 550 frame. Looking great.

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Nov 19 2020, 06:34 PM

Yikes - 5 inches is a lot!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 19 2020, 07:01 PM

QUOTE(bretth @ Nov 19 2020, 04:07 PM) *

Big John gonna karate chop that thing in half? smile.gif Those are some long rear suspension plates on the 550 frame. Looking great.

I told him to use his laser vision.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 19 2020, 07:03 PM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Nov 19 2020, 04:34 PM) *

Yikes - 5 inches is a lot!

I may have to shorten my femur's! I'm glad I'm not a tall dude, because tall and 904 don't work. I'm 5'9" and I look squeezed in this real one 904-0014.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 20 2020, 01:41 PM

Ok, scary day, big cut done, it is currently two cars. We chopped the 5 inches out and you can see it's now as tight as a 904. Look for more updates on Monday when we seam it back up. Glad this part is about to be behind me in the build, I dreaded this part.



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 20 2020, 01:42 PM

More pics.


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Posted by: TJB/914 Nov 20 2020, 03:07 PM

first.gif w00t.gif pray.gif
Like wub.gif
Tom

Posted by: bretth Nov 20 2020, 03:18 PM

Wow that's tight. Maybe you can sneak in another inch or two by denting in the lower cross member behind the seat? Go-cart for sure.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 20 2020, 03:44 PM

QUOTE(bretth @ Nov 20 2020, 01:18 PM) *

Wow that's tight. Maybe you can sneak in another inch or two by denting in the lower cross member behind the seat? Go-cart for sure.

I have a couple of tricks I can do to squeeze a little more room out. Instead of a Speedster seat I can use a Spyder seat, they are smaller.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 23 2020, 02:22 PM

Prepped the two pieces of the car to go into one tomorrow. Everything is lining up well and fitting nicely. Stay tuned.


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Posted by: Tdskip Nov 23 2020, 02:30 PM

Holy cow!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 24 2020, 02:24 PM

What was once two pieces, is one again.

Reunited, and it feels so good!
Now we are back to normal stuff like trimming out the front fenders and fitting the body, no more scary parts.

Sitting in the car is tight, but it feels as tight as when I sat in a real 904. My brother is 5'6" and sat in it, it is much more suited for him than me at 5'9".


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Nov 24 2020, 02:35 PM

Amazing! Loving this project. beerchug.gif

Posted by: mb911 Nov 24 2020, 05:05 PM

Wow

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 24 2020, 08:23 PM

Here are some pre-welding shots, to show how tight we got it.


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Posted by: rjames Nov 24 2020, 09:05 PM

Damn, that is a tight space!

Posted by: jd74914 Nov 25 2020, 07:54 AM

That is a small space, wow.

Before you go further Adam you really should do a string alignment with special focus on toe and wheel position. It’d be a shame to get everything else fit up and find out that the center of the car is at a slight angle which results in a crab walk which can’t be adjusted out.

Posted by: db9146 Nov 25 2020, 04:06 PM

Better have some WD40 to spray your back side to get into that....wow.

Posted by: Carbon-14 Nov 26 2020, 12:48 AM


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Yeah,
I'm loving it.
The front steering geometry has now been altered, the instantaneous and imaginary, intersections must be recalculated, determined.
This is the part where it becomes interesting, to emulate the performance of the factory design, 60 years later, with computers.
https://www.google.com/search?q=4%20wheel%20independent%20suspension%20design%20geometry&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CUiZcOMUQIYKYXrr21EsRCuw&hl=en-US&sa=X&ved=0CBsQuIIBahcKEwjY-KOYwp_tAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg&biw=1483&bih=742
https://www.restoration-design.com/store/SRCH?Search=PP355
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1678-58782011000400007
https://www.turnology.com/features/chassis-geometry-101-engineering-speed/
http://performancetrends.com/SuspAnzr.htm
https://www.susprog.com/download/SusProg3D.pdf
Cameras mounted at the corners to analyze tire contact patch, while testing, the motions, the heat transfer by infrared.
That will be fun, enjoying the build, hope to hear it make nice sounds.
biggrin.gif

Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 26 2020, 08:25 AM

One option to address seating position would be to shorten the steering column and move the pedals forward. I've done this to 911 and 914 racecars now. A bit of a PITA, but really helps with the seat position.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 26 2020, 08:45 AM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Nov 26 2020, 06:25 AM) *

One option to address seating position would be to shorten the steering column and move the pedals forward. I've done this to 911 and 914 racecars now. A bit of a PITA, but really helps with the seat position.

Stan,
I think you're onto something. I consulted with a friend of mine last night who owns 904-0014 and this is what he said,
"The length is adjustable. Since 904 seats do not adjust, they made both the steering and pedal ass'y adjustable.

Attached is a page from the 904 parts book showing the steering.

When you are strapped into your seat, you should reach out above the steering wheel, drop your straight arms down and your wrists should touch the top of the steering wheel. That allows you full control of the car w/o taking your hands off the wheel."

I might have to entice you to head upstate to consult with me!


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Posted by: mate914 Nov 26 2020, 11:12 AM

This is a great build....
Wish I could help....
Matt

Posted by: rhodyguy Nov 26 2020, 02:51 PM

I wonder which parts bin the switch assem came out of?

Posted by: orangecrate Nov 26 2020, 04:34 PM

Blah blah blah ,yada yada yada . When is this sweetheart gonna carve some corners???? I might venture that some of these folks are jealous of your skills. I am. biggrin.gif Ride on..!!!

Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 27 2020, 09:46 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Nov 26 2020, 09:45 AM) *

I might have to entice you to head upstate to consult with me!


Hey Adam - would definitely like to get up there to meet and check out the project once some of the current craziness settles down!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 30 2020, 11:37 AM

Ok, it's all welded up, one car again. Now the real fun can begin!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 4 2020, 07:37 PM

Nothing terribly exciting today. Found an hour at the end of the day today and pulled the big wheels and big brakes off the back. Swapped them out for regular stuff.

Tomorrow should be fun though, my mechanic Rick is coming by to help me set up the suspension. I bolted it all up but it's not set up. The magic hands of the the Bavarian Rocket Scientist will be on display.


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Posted by: Carbon-14 Dec 5 2020, 12:58 AM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhDPybl8Kwg


Dino 246, Testarossa, Daytona, 904GTS.
If a market exists for a miniature electric 914, what quality threshold would make them collectible, as say, matchbox toys.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 5 2020, 09:42 AM

Today went exactly as planned. Rick came by and did in 45 minutes what it probably would have taken me 3 days to get right. It helps sometimes to bring in someone who has been doing Porsches before I was born.

Ride height is nice, set well, so I can start fitting the 904 body now.
I feel like this is like painting a car, 100 hours of prep for 2 hours of paint work.

Oh well, no one said this project was going to be easy, and it's cheaper then therapy.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 6 2020, 12:08 AM

It's been so long since I started on this project I put some side by side pics to see how much the car has been transformed.


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Posted by: KELTY360 Dec 6 2020, 01:25 PM

Looks kinda like a dune buggy now....or maybe a lunar rover. biggrin.gif

Great progress.

Posted by: zipedadoo Dec 6 2020, 04:32 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Dec 6 2020, 11:25 AM) *

Looks kinda like a dune buggy now....or maybe a lunar rover. biggrin.gif

Great progress.


25 years ago I made a dune buggy out of a 914 I found in a junk yard. It was a running, driving car and now I often wonder what I was thinking.

Posted by: FL 000 Dec 6 2020, 07:26 PM

Adam, maybe I missed it, but did you you sleeve the longs when you joined the two halves back together?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 6 2020, 08:55 PM

QUOTE(FL 000 @ Dec 6 2020, 05:26 PM) *

Adam, maybe I missed it, but did you you sleeve the longs when you joined the two halves back together?

No, because most of them will still be cut to accept the 904 door. I plan to box the whole inside with plate steel, then make my final outer cuts. Here is what the practice car looked like.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 10 2020, 06:49 PM

Nothing crazy this week. After the cutting the car in half head game I decided to take it easy and tackle something that won't take much thought. Time to eradicate the yellow. I've always hated the yellow, and being a former racecar, EVERYTHING IS YELLOW!

It's a start.


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Posted by: Carbon-14 Dec 10 2020, 09:20 PM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tVElRoZIG0


Building a custom, makes for measuring twice.
The shortened wheelbase affecting the steering geometry, slightly.
I am loving this build, the 904 a desired object of art.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 11 2020, 10:20 AM

Because everything looks better in black!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 12 2020, 04:36 PM

Well, it's tight but not too tight for a 10 year old! The kids went with me to the shop today and Max got to sit in the car, still too big for him.


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Posted by: Carbon-14 Dec 19 2020, 09:22 PM

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Marveling at the skills, the 550 build came to mind, thought you might be encouraged that it is all quite feasible, and beautiful.
idea.gif
http://fueltank.cc/blog/maserati-300s

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 20 2020, 08:42 AM

QUOTE(Carbon-14 @ Dec 19 2020, 07:22 PM) *

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Marveling at the skills, the 550 build came to mind, thought you might be encouraged that it is all quite feasible, and beautiful.
idea.gif
http://fueltank.cc/blog/maserati-300s

They employed the same construction method, the wire form. I think more people are adopting this method over the traditional wood buck. The wood buck doesn't give you the ability to join panels as well, or clamp the panel for fitting.
The 550 is coming along nicely, I've secured about half the body in original metal, the rest we have made. I found a fender recently, the guy hasn't decided if he will sell it yet, but I'm on it.
So far I have the tail off of 0058, the doors and inner fenders off of 0132 , and the hood off of 0114.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 22 2020, 05:38 PM

Tomorrow is going to be fun. Picked up the plate steel to box in the inner cockpit, before I cut the outer longs.
I got 1/4 inch, maybe overkill but I want it to be strong.


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Posted by: mate914 Dec 22 2020, 07:18 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 22 2020, 06:38 PM) *

Tomorrow is going to be fun. Picked up the plate steel to box in the inner cockpit, before I cut the outer longs.
I got 1/4 inch, maybe overkill but I want it to be strong.

I want to help/learn.
I hope I'm not too far away. Teach me

Posted by: mb911 Dec 22 2020, 07:23 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 22 2020, 03:38 PM) *

Tomorrow is going to be fun. Picked up the plate steel to box in the inner cockpit, before I cut the outer longs.
I got 1/4 inch, maybe overkill but I want it to be strong.



Make sure you have the welder set correct for 1/4" 19 volts 300 ipm would be a good setting for thick to thin

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 22 2020, 07:46 PM

I'd suggest 1/4" is way too thick. If you're talking about replicating the "traditional" inner long/lower firewall stiffener, kit you'd be more than fine with 16 Ga, 14 at the most. You're adding a TON of weight that isn't doing you much more good than 14 or 16.

Or is this just temporary while you work on the outer longs? If that's the case, you'd be better off with something like Tangerine Racing's door brace kit. I had both my outer rockers off with just door braces and it worked just fine.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 22 2020, 08:12 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 22 2020, 05:23 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 22 2020, 03:38 PM) *

Tomorrow is going to be fun. Picked up the plate steel to box in the inner cockpit, before I cut the outer longs.
I got 1/4 inch, maybe overkill but I want it to be strong.



Make sure you have the welder set correct for 1/4" 19 volts 300 ipm would be a good setting for thick to thin

Thanks for the tip.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 22 2020, 08:18 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 22 2020, 05:46 PM) *

I'd suggest 1/4" is way too thick. If you're talking about replicating the "traditional" inner long/lower firewall stiffener, kit you'd be more than fine with 16 Ga, 14 at the most. You're adding a TON of weight that isn't doing you much more good than 14 or 16.

Or is this just temporary while you work on the outer longs? If that's the case, you'd be better off with something like Tangerine Racing's door brace kit. I had both my outer rockers off with just door braces and it worked just fine.

I'm trying to add some hardcore rigidity to the center mass of the car. I cut away so much of the car, and the fiberglass body is very thin and will add little if any substance. I also wanted some solidness in case of a crash, again the fiberglass won't help.
In order to have the door pockets for the body fit I have to cut all the long off, everything but the inner wall, which is what I'm hoping to strengthen.
Look at the pics of the test body, you can see how the long gets cut to ribbons.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 22 2020, 08:21 PM

QUOTE(mate914 @ Dec 22 2020, 05:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 22 2020, 06:38 PM) *

Tomorrow is going to be fun. Picked up the plate steel to box in the inner cockpit, before I cut the outer longs.
I got 1/4 inch, maybe overkill but I want it to be strong.

I want to help/learn.
I hope I'm not too far away. Teach me

Let's talk once Covid is over, the shop is pretty much closed now.

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 23 2020, 08:12 AM

In case of a crash? "Over"?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 23 2020, 02:02 PM

Was hoping to get the pieces welded in today but ran out of day and out of metal. The metal place cut one piece down for me, and gave me the short end, not the long end I paid for, so I'll swap that out today on the way home. I did get the two side pieces cut and fitted and the cardboard template is in for the firewall piece. Hoping I can sneak out of the house this weekend and get up to the shop and finish this part up. Here's hoping!

Happy Holidays!!!!!


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Posted by: Carbon-14 Dec 23 2020, 02:20 PM

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Monocoque or tubular structure, a beam, stiffening the platform.
Attaching the ends and edges to the existing remains of the 914 chassis must be accomplished by spreading the loads to larger areas, adapter plates and bulkheads of similar thickness light sheetmetal.

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https://www.restoration-design.com/store/product/PP301R
Emulating Porsche's perimeter box rails attached to the 914's pan, elegantly.
The corrugated and bossed panels when welded to a clamshell beam with internal integral stiffeners transfer the loads to their ends without buckling and are relatively lightweight. Some modifications will be necessary to fit beneath the 904 grp siderails.
Measuring the diagonal stiffness of the resulting weldment will determine the performance characteristics of the chassis.
Looking good.
thumb3d.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 23 2020, 09:01 PM

QUOTE(Carbon-14 @ Dec 23 2020, 12:20 PM) *

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Monocoque or tubular structure, a beam, stiffening the platform.
Attaching the ends and edges to the existing remains of the 914 chassis must be accomplished by spreading the loads to larger areas, adapter plates and bulkheads of similar thickness light sheetmetal.

Attached Image
https://www.restoration-design.com/store/product/PP301R
Emulating Porsche's perimeter box rails attached to the 914's pan, elegantly.
The corrugated and bossed panels when welded to a clamshell beam with internal integral stiffeners transfer the loads to their ends without buckling and are relatively lightweight. Some modifications will be necessary to fit beneath the 904 grp siderails.
Measuring the diagonal stiffness of the resulting weldment will determine the performance characteristics of the chassis.
Looking good.
thumb3d.gif


Thanks for the input and graphics. I was a little confused at what you were saying. Are you saying I'm on the right track with the inner pieces I made, or I should get a piece from RD and start with that?

Posted by: Carbon-14 Dec 24 2020, 07:34 AM

Your solution will work just fine, welded securely to the chassis, like the armor plated hulls of battleships.
smile.gif
Plenty stiff in torsion, a good thing, though with a weight penalty, and likely still below 1800 Lbs ~ 820kgs, all good.
evilgrin.gif
Pressing the plate steel into an L shape would have added substantial rigidity, making holes to lighten the plates would benefit the power to weight ratio, which should approach that of the 904's.
'..for what I got, a carbed 3.2, with a sequential gearbox...'
A centrifugal blower, to get the power up, heh heh, a blown injected 914/904.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9JB6jRSZD4
Press on regardless.
thumb3d.gif

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Posted by: mate914 Dec 24 2020, 09:54 AM

I like both. Keep the 1/4'' steel and with the clamshell make a boxed frame. Maybe run heating through the small boxed frame to clear windshield. Would also be a safe place for oil lines.
Looks great.

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Dec 24 2020, 11:39 AM

That was going to be my question: Why not put the plate on the outside of the inner long to make the C section a D section? Seems like the D would be stronger and only make the thing a 1/2 inch wider.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 24 2020, 01:10 PM

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Dec 24 2020, 09:39 AM) *

That was going to be my question: Why not put the plate on the outside of the inner long to make the C section a D section? Seems like the D would be stronger and only make the thing a 1/2 inch wider.


I had no room to spare on the outer wall, the body barely fit.
My solution was to strengthen the last remaining wall of the original long, thereby still having all the original structure, factory spot welds etc, but making the whole thing super strong with the thick steel.
The similarities of the 914 and the 904 are great, but there are times when they diverge pretty dramatically. Probably because one was a purpose built, low production race car, and the other was a production car made for the masses. I'm just glad I'm not terribly tall, because anyone much taller than me (5'9") would have a really hard time in this car.

Posted by: Bruce Hinds Dec 24 2020, 02:00 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Dec 24 2020, 12:10 PM) *

QUOTE(Bruce Hinds @ Dec 24 2020, 09:39 AM) *

That was going to be my question: Why not put the plate on the outside of the inner long to make the C section a D section? Seems like the D would be stronger and only make the thing a 1/2 inch wider.


I had no room to spare on the outer wall, the body barely fit.
My solution was to strengthen the last remaining wall of the original long, thereby still having all the original structure, factory spot welds etc, but making the whole thing super strong with the thick steel.
The similarities of the 914 and the 904 are great, but there are times when they diverge pretty dramatically. Probably because one was a purpose built, low production race car, and the other was a production car made for the masses. I'm just glad I'm not terribly tall, because anyone much taller than me (5'9") would have a really hard time in this car.


Understood - such a cool project. Thanks for sharing . . . popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 26 2020, 04:08 PM

Ok, was able to sneak away today and get the plate steel cut fitted and welded in, so all in all a pretty good day. I need to finish out the welding but for now nothing is going anywhere and the fit was pretty good. It was nice to turn up the welder (thanks mb911) and do some real thick steel welding. It reminds of when I took my welding class in Brooklyn so many years ago, thick welds that were nice and flowing. It's a lot harder to get those kind of welds on 60 year old cars with sometimes questionable metal that is thin in many spots. This was welding like it was intended to be, a slow flow of metal, joining two thick pieces. It was quite refreshing!

Hope everyone had a nice holiday!



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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 27 2020, 09:55 AM

One last shot, wouldn't fit the first round.


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Posted by: mate914 Dec 27 2020, 11:13 AM

That is the ultimate inner long kit.
The one time I saw a real 904 it was tiny compared to my teenier.
Looks good....

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 14 2021, 02:20 PM

Ok, holidays done, back to work. Meaning it took me several weeks to get a day to work on my own stuff. I welded in the plates all the way in anticipation of cutting out the rollbar and the outer longs. I got the rollbar out, as well as the driver's side long. So you can know see why I had to really really reinforce the longs, because there is nothing left!

I think I have to jump back on a 911 tomorrow, but I might split the day, or come in this weekend, so be on the lookout for more updates.

Happy New Year!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 18 2021, 05:42 PM

No new work, but I recently did a buying trip through VA and stopped off to see my friend Bob Garretson to get him to sign the dash. He had some great stories of racing 935's and the like. Bob and Bruce Anderson originally built this car for IMSA racing.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 25 2021, 03:31 PM

Ok, the selling season is officially over so the "winter work on your own shit" period has begun. I moved the chassis to another part of the shop today, bigger space but it's next to the wood stove so it will be a hot winter of welding.
Expect regular updates until Spring when we will start pumping cars again.


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Posted by: Superhawk996 Oct 25 2021, 04:16 PM

I've followed this thread off & on. Looking forward to progress.

But . . . wouldn't it have been easier to just start a tube frame. happy11.gif

Keep going. Can't wait to see this one shape up.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 25 2021, 04:29 PM

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Oct 25 2021, 02:16 PM) *

I've followed this thread off & on. Looking forward to progress.

But . . . wouldn't it have been easier to just start a tube frame. happy11.gif

Keep going. Can't wait to see this one shape up.


Because then it wouldn't be a Porsche. Might as well just buy a Beck and save myself years of work.

Posted by: KELTY360 Oct 25 2021, 05:49 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Oct 25 2021, 03:29 PM) *

QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ Oct 25 2021, 02:16 PM) *

I've followed this thread off & on. Looking forward to progress.

But . . . wouldn't it have been easier to just start a tube frame. happy11.gif

Keep going. Can't wait to see this one shape up.


Because then it wouldn't be a Porsche. Might as well just buy a Beck and save myself years of work.

Doncha just love trouble makers? smash.gif

Rock on Adam; should be some great progress this year. popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 9 2021, 06:56 PM

Ok, winter has officially arrived here at Unobtanium HQ, so let the winter of welding begin. Hoping to start dry fitting the body before the new year. The last cut of the passenger side rocker is complete. Here's to winter!


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Posted by: ctc911ctc Dec 11 2021, 02:18 PM

Perhaps I am the only one but I see a bunch of very interesting projects in that bone yard of yours.....

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 11 2021, 02:40 PM

QUOTE(ctc911ctc @ Dec 11 2021, 12:18 PM) *

Perhaps I am the only one but I see a bunch of very interesting projects in that bone yard of yours.....

They normally don't last long, if you look at the yard a year from now it will be different cars. We like to see them leave, almost more than we like to see them arrive.

Posted by: Sedonut Dec 11 2021, 06:15 PM

Thank you for posting all this. I love seeing what can be done so I learn something !!

Thanks again !!

Posted by: Shivers Dec 12 2021, 08:02 AM

What's all that white stuff? biggrin.gif Been following

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Dec 12 2021, 09:56 AM

QUOTE(Shivers @ Dec 12 2021, 06:02 AM) *

What's all that white stuff? biggrin.gif Been following

This shop isn't that bad, the old shop was in the Adirondacks, we would get feet of snow, all you could see was the shape of the cars!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 12 2022, 08:18 PM

Ironically it is 6 years to the day when I dry-fitted the body to the test bed chassis because today I started to fit the body to the real chassis. Guess we will find out this week if I cut and welded in the right places. Stay tuned.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 13 2022, 01:27 PM

Ok, so it fits! Fine tuning it now but everything is lining up just as I had hoped. Like Hannibal Smith used to say,
"I love it when a plan comes together!"


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Posted by: 930cabman Jan 13 2022, 07:52 PM

Not for the meek!!

Looking good, what is your target weight?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 13 2022, 07:57 PM

QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 13 2022, 05:52 PM) *

Not for the meek!!

Looking good, what is your target weight?

It won't be much heavier than it sits right now. I still have to put a tank in it and I'm using Speedster seats so no real weight there. Wonder where it will end up?

Posted by: 914Sixer Jan 13 2022, 08:47 PM

Badass all the way!

Posted by: djway Jan 13 2022, 09:31 PM

Looking at that steering wheel really shows how small this car is.
Great job.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 13 2022, 10:30 PM

QUOTE(djway @ Jan 13 2022, 07:31 PM) *

Looking at that steering wheel really shows how small this car is.
Great job.

When I first got the body I thought something was wrong, it was too small. I'm not a big dude, 5'9", but it was tight. Then I sat in a friend's real 904, 0014. Nope, they are just really small.


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Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Jan 13 2022, 10:41 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 13 2022, 05:57 PM) *

QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 13 2022, 05:52 PM) *

Not for the meek!!

Looking good, what is your target weight?

It won't be much heavier than it sits right now. I still have to put a tank in it and I'm using Speedster seats so no real weight there. Wonder where it will end up?

Maybe he meant your target weight for being able to steer and shift at the same time?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 13 2022, 10:46 PM

QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Jan 13 2022, 08:41 PM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jan 13 2022, 05:57 PM) *

QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 13 2022, 05:52 PM) *

Not for the meek!!

Looking good, what is your target weight?

It won't be much heavier than it sits right now. I still have to put a tank in it and I'm using Speedster seats so no real weight there. Wonder where it will end up?

Maybe he meant your target weight for being able to steer and shift at the same time?

He had me at "looking good".

Posted by: 930cabman Jan 14 2022, 07:01 AM

I must be an old guy because I can recall seeing a 904 available for sale, probably mid '70's

Very cool project, I assume being completed in your spare time idea.gif

Posted by: mate914 Jan 14 2022, 07:33 AM

I like it. Out of the true spirit of the 914 comes a fire breathing dragon.
Matt flag.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 14 2022, 04:34 PM

QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 14 2022, 05:01 AM) *

I must be an old guy because I can recall seeing a 904 available for sale, probably mid '70's

Very cool project, I assume being completed in your spare time idea.gif


Yes, free time, it's taken 6 years to get to this point. Luckily I'm only 47 so time is on my side.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 14 2022, 04:35 PM

QUOTE(mate914 @ Jan 14 2022, 05:33 AM) *

I like it. Out of the true spirit of the 914 comes a fire breathing dragon.
Matt flag.gif

That was always my vision with the car, pour new life into a put out to pasture race car.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Feb 20 2022, 10:58 PM

I've been neglecting this build to work on the other one, the 550 project, which made huge strides this weekend going together. Hoping to jump back on the 904 in March, it's like having two needy but sexy girlfriends...


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Posted by: Shivers Feb 21 2022, 07:47 AM

Nice

Posted by: carr914 Feb 21 2022, 11:58 AM

QUOTE(mate914 @ Jan 14 2022, 08:33 AM) *

I like it. Out of the true spirit of the 914 comes a fire breathing dragon.
Matt flag.gif


More like "out of the True Spirit of a 914-6 Race Car comes of un-polished Turd!"

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Feb 21 2022, 01:27 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Feb 21 2022, 09:58 AM) *

QUOTE(mate914 @ Jan 14 2022, 08:33 AM) *

I like it. Out of the true spirit of the 914 comes a fire breathing dragon.
Matt flag.gif


More like "out of the True Spirit of a 914-6 Race Car comes of un-polished Turd!"


With that attitude it's no wonder you don't make friends well.

Posted by: Jonathan Livesay Feb 21 2022, 01:56 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Feb 21 2022, 11:27 AM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Feb 21 2022, 09:58 AM) *

QUOTE(mate914 @ Jan 14 2022, 08:33 AM) *

I like it. Out of the true spirit of the 914 comes a fire breathing dragon.
Matt flag.gif


More like "out of the True Spirit of a 914-6 Race Car comes of un-polished Turd!"


With that attitude it's no wonder you don't make friends well.

Haters gotta hate!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Feb 21 2022, 02:52 PM

QUOTE(Jonathan Livesay @ Feb 21 2022, 11:56 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Feb 21 2022, 11:27 AM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Feb 21 2022, 09:58 AM) *

QUOTE(mate914 @ Jan 14 2022, 08:33 AM) *

I like it. Out of the true spirit of the 914 comes a fire breathing dragon.
Matt flag.gif


More like "out of the True Spirit of a 914-6 Race Car comes of un-polished Turd!"


With that attitude it's no wonder you don't make friends well.

Haters gotta hate!


Yup, I just wish they would do it somewhere else.

Posted by: 930cabman Feb 22 2022, 05:42 PM

I've been neglecting this build to work on the other one, the 550 project, which made huge strides this weekend going together. Hoping to jump back on the 904 in March, it's like having two needy but sexy girlfriends...

I have never had that problem, assuming it is a problem??

Great work, the 550 looks awesome. I am in Buffalo and should take a shop tour someday, if available?
thanks

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Feb 23 2022, 12:06 AM

QUOTE(930cabman @ Feb 22 2022, 03:42 PM) *

I've been neglecting this build to work on the other one, the 550 project, which made huge strides this weekend going together. Hoping to jump back on the 904 in March, it's like having two needy but sexy girlfriends...

I have never had that problem, assuming it is a problem??

Great work, the 550 looks awesome. I am in Buffalo and should take a shop tour someday, if available?
thanks


We don't get many visitors, no one is ever just in Ravena, but swing by anytime, just call me when you're coming, I'm on the road a lot.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 17 2022, 01:29 PM

Projects move either at warp speed or turtle speed. Today was turtle time. Lots of measurements, comparing to 904's (none of which are the same!) and trying to find a happy middleground. Before I start attaching the body I need to have it in the right spot, which means two inches back, one inch forward, rinse/repeat.
Not a bad way to spend the day though, so I'm not complaining, just no fireworks today.


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Posted by: 930cabman Mar 17 2022, 05:11 PM

Measure many times, cut once

Cool project, thanks for keeping us updated

Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 17 2022, 07:56 PM

QUOTE(930cabman @ Mar 17 2022, 04:11 PM) *

Measure many times, cut once

Cool project, thanks for keeping us updated


agree.gif

Most taken down 914 for a 904 I've seen. Very cool.

Posted by: BillJ Apr 13 2023, 07:24 AM

Progress? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7276

Posted by: 930cabman Apr 13 2023, 09:05 AM

QUOTE(BillJ @ Apr 13 2023, 07:24 AM) *

Progress? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7276



Could be occupied with the multiple sexy girlfriends

Posted by: KELTY360 Apr 13 2023, 09:07 AM

QUOTE(930cabman @ Apr 13 2023, 07:05 AM) *

QUOTE(BillJ @ Apr 13 2023, 07:24 AM) *

Progress? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7276



Could be occupied with the multiple sexy girlfriends


....and one who will clean the shop. happy11.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 13 2023, 11:31 AM

QUOTE(BillJ @ Apr 13 2023, 05:24 AM) *

Progress? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7276

I made a strategic decision late last year to focus all my free time and attention on the 550 build. The reason being is my friend Wray is helping me with that one, I can't do the advanced aluminum body work required. I have done all the work on the 904 project and will finish it myself. Since Wray is busy and older I wanted to get the body done on the 550 as fast as possible, given my busy schedule and his. So for 2023 the 904 will probably just sit there, sad but true. The good news is we are making rapid progress on the 550 build.
It's like having a wife (my job) and two mistresses (my projects), there is only one of me to go around!


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Posted by: BillJ Apr 13 2023, 12:42 PM

Awesome projects and good to prioritize.

Posted by: 914Sixer Apr 13 2023, 04:20 PM

Sounds like a good plan. Advanced help is getting to be NLA.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 13 2023, 05:47 PM

QUOTE(914Sixer @ Apr 13 2023, 02:20 PM) *

Sounds like a good plan. Advanced help is getting to be NLA.

Wray grew up restoring Duesenberg's with his grandfather, his talent with metal is un-matched. But he's 72, so I said it's time to get serious, we've been working on the car for 7 years.

Posted by: r_towle Apr 20 2023, 02:14 PM

I think I need to drop by for a visit.
WHAT is that beetle in the background? hmmmm?

The 550 is the Autox tool, until the 904 is done.

Rich

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 20 2023, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Apr 20 2023, 12:14 PM) *

I think I need to drop by for a visit.
WHAT is that beetle in the background? hmmmm?

The 550 is the Autox tool, until the 904 is done.

Rich

You mean the baby one? One of Wray's students is working on it, he had never shaped metal in his life. It's amazing what you can learn by taking his 4 day class.


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jun 16 2023, 11:40 PM

Just an update, after 7 years the 550 build is now in the shape of a car. Hoping to get back on the 904 in the coming months.


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Posted by: 930cabman Jun 17 2023, 05:24 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Jun 16 2023, 11:40 PM) *

Just an update, after 7 years the 550 build is now in the shape of a car. Hoping to get back on the 904 in the coming months.


Very cool, talk about a puzzle? thanks for the update, she is looking great

Posted by: slowrodent Jun 17 2023, 09:28 AM

Fascinating work across the board...... pray.gif

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Jun 17 2023, 09:40 AM

man that is a lot of history mixed up into one project! basically a 914/6 racer with 4 different 550's donating parts? what is the motor going to be? i think you should do one of Erick Shea's 2.3's!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jun 17 2023, 06:00 PM

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Jun 17 2023, 07:40 AM) *

man that is a lot of history mixed up into one project! basically a 914/6 racer with 4 different 550's donating parts? what is the motor going to be? i think you should do one of Erick Shea's 2.3's!

There isn't any 914 in this car, that's the other build. This one had half a chassis from a 356C, and the rest an old repro 550 frame.
The motor is a 912 motor that Vic Skirmants build for me.


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