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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 2 hour oil cooler install

Posted by: Demick Feb 13 2005, 09:41 PM

I finally got around to installing my aux oil cooler. Used a Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate and Derale fan/cooler. Aeroquip blue hose with -8AN push on ends connected it up. Hose runs next to valve cover and zip ties to the wire bales (should make valve adjustments interesting). I removed the heater J tube on the passenger side to route the cooler lines. Since that J tube was just capped anyway, I just removed the J tube and put the cap where the J tube normall attaches to the heat exchangers. So there is no change to the heating system.

Demick

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Posted by: Demick Feb 13 2005, 09:42 PM

And here is the sandwich adapter showing oil line routing.

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Posted by: Demick Feb 13 2005, 09:43 PM

more

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Posted by: SirAndy Feb 13 2005, 10:01 PM

QUOTE (Demick @ Feb 13 2005, 07:43 PM)
more

so you're blowing the hot air from your internal oil cooler right onto the feed/return line for the external cooler.
then you proceed to blow hot air from under the car over a cooler that has no natural air flow what-so-ever.
did you mount it flush with the rear trunk? it looks like it. if so, where is the air from the fan supposed to go? the fan won't create any air-flow this way

*if* you see any drop in engine temp with that setup, it's most likely due to the fact that you're adding 3 or 4 quarts of oil to the system.

i doubt that cooler setup will do anything for 'ya ...
Andy

Posted by: Demick Feb 13 2005, 10:07 PM

Air does not blow onto the cooler lines. There is 1" of space between the cooler and the trunk floor (twice the space required by the cooler). Air is pulled down through the cooler - not up. Cooler and lines only add .6 quarts of capacity to the system.

I believe it will do what I need (provide 20 degrees of additional oil cooling on a hot day when doing 80mph for extended periods).

Demick

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 13 2005, 10:09 PM

QUOTE (Demick @ Feb 13 2005, 08:07 PM)
Air does not blow onto the cooler lines.

ok, am i nuts?
i see the 2 oil lines running right under the stock oil cooler where they exit/enter the sandwich adapter ...

Andy

Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 13 2005, 10:11 PM

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 13 2005, 09:09 PM)

QUOTE (Demick @ Feb 13 2005, 08:07 PM)
Air does not blow onto the cooler lines.

ok, am i nuts?
i see the 2 oil lines running right under the stock oil cooler where they exit/enter the sandwich adapter ...

Andy

he is right... but... i dont think that is avoidable....

hmm... i may run a front cooler just in the valence

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 13 2005, 10:11 PM

QUOTE (Demick @ Feb 13 2005, 08:07 PM)
Air is pulled down through the cooler - not up.

ok, then you're sucking hot air through a hot cooler instead of blowing it, big difference ...

i doubt you'll see a 20 deg. drop with that setup, especially not on a hot day.

but hey, that's just MHO ...
Andy

Posted by: trekkor Feb 13 2005, 10:23 PM

QUOTE
I believe it will do what I need (provide 20 degrees of additional oil cooling on a hot day when doing 80mph for extended periods).

I think it will work, too.
Nice job Demick.

As long as the air passing over the cooler is a lower temp than the oil, it will offer cooling.

KT

Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 13 2005, 10:33 PM

BTW: how much was the sandwhich adapter and pricer per foot of hose?

i may run lines up to the front of the car and run a small RX7 style cooler in the valence area.... run the hoses in the rockers

Posted by: Demick Feb 13 2005, 10:50 PM

Andy - you are right - the lines run under the stock cooler. But that is the only place to run them with a sandwich adapter. Still, the air exhausting the cooler is still cooler than the oil temp in the hoses. So it cannot further heat the oil.

The air going through the aux cooler is not ambient, but it isn't 200F either. If I am stopped at a stoplight, it probably gets pretty hot under there - but I don't need extra cooling when I'm stopped. I need it when I'm going down the freeway at 90mph or whatever. At higher speeds, there is lots of turbulence and fresh air gets mixed with exhaust air etc.

Here's an example. Drive down the freeway on a warm day. Now pull over and open the rear trunk and feel how warm the floor of the trunk is. Is it warm? Yes. Is it 200F? Nope. Maybe 120 or 130F. The air under the trunk is pretty much the same temperature as the floor of the trunk. So that air is still about 100F cooler than the oil. Should be able to do an adequate job of cooling.

Is it good enough for a 20 minute session at Thunderhill on a 105 degree day? Nope. But I didn't intend it for that.

Aaron: The sandwich adapter was about $90. The price per foot of hose was just over $3. But the real savings on this type of hose is the fittings. The 90 degree elbows were $7 each as opposed to nearly $20 each if I had used the traditional Aeroquip reusable hose ends.

Demick

Posted by: tommy914 Feb 13 2005, 11:12 PM

Demick,

I have a similar setup and have been happy with it.

It the oil lines bother you too much in that location, you might try running them the way I did.

Since you already removed the passenger J pipe, run the oil lines up into the engine compartment, then stright back, exiting out 2 holes cut into the rear engine sheet metal. This will keep them out of the way.

That's assumming you have room in the engine compartment.

I put red circles on your picture to show where the would exit.

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Posted by: J P Stein Feb 13 2005, 11:23 PM

I'm gonna use that blue hose for fuel lines.
I don't trust it for oil lines.....but WTF do I know.
Since you've got it on there, I'd put some hose clamps on the barbed ends.....unless Aeroquip specifically says not to.
That set-up is better than nothing. You may well get your 20 deg drop......but WTF do I know?

Posted by: tommy914 Feb 13 2005, 11:27 PM

My Aeroquip guy said NO hose clamps. The barbs on those "push on" ends are sharper than the usual barbed end. He said if you use a clamp, it will cut the inside of the line.

No leaks so far.

Posted by: Joseph Mills Feb 14 2005, 12:00 AM

QUOTE (Demick @ Feb 13 2005, 10:50 PM)
I need it when I'm going down the freeway at 90mph or whatever. At higher speeds, there is lots of turbulence and fresh air gets mixed with exhaust air etc.

Demick,

My engine exhibits warmer than desired temps on the highway also. Around town it's fine. I will be most interested in your results. I'm planning on a similar setup later this spring.

That cooler looks just like an Atomic-Cool from Performance. Was it around 180 bucks?

Keep us posted on your temp findings.

Posted by: McMark Feb 14 2005, 12:04 AM

There's the best way and then there's good enough. Demick's way is probably going to be good enough. Sure, it could be better, but for a single afternoon install, you can't beat it.

Good job Demick.

Posted by: Demick Feb 14 2005, 12:07 AM

Tommy: Yes, I considered running the hoses throught the engine compartment, but with F.I., there's a bunch of stuff in the way.

J.P.: The blue hose is meant for socketless fittings with no hose clamps. Good to 300psi. More than 4 times what I will ever see. Like Tommy says, hose clamps will actually cause problems rather than solve them.

Joseph: Yes, this is the Atomic Cool setup like Performance sells.

Demick

Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 14 2005, 12:14 AM

way cool demick!

where did you order the parts from?
i think i can get away with running a fluidyne thinline (used) cooler up front and all fittings and lines for less than 300..... wonder how much oil that adds?

Posted by: bernbomb914 Feb 14 2005, 03:09 AM

I installed a cooler like yours but I put it closer to the wheel well and set it on an angle. works very well according to the stock guage.

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Posted by: Triaddave Feb 14 2005, 11:43 AM

i got the same cooler/fan last friday. i was planning to install it on the dual grill lid i made. the cooler/fan should fit close to the firewall,attached to the grill yet under the window.no pictures yet, i'll play with it today and post some pictures when it is done.

Posted by: cha914 Feb 14 2005, 12:53 PM

Aaron,

I ran my cooler up front using the blue hose and fittings above...and I used the chepo thrucooler oil cooler also.

I think the whole setup from racerpartswholesale was right around 400. That was ~35ft of line plus fittings and adapter and cooler, oh and -10 lines.

The highest temps I have seen are 210 on a 95+ day while floggin the car up a long grade, otherwise it barely gets above 180...so if you have a better fluidyne it will probably work even better.

HTH,

Tony

edit: previous thread with pics and stuff

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=7103&hl=oil+cooler

Posted by: Demick Feb 23 2005, 10:19 AM

Well, today was the first day in a week and a half without (forecasted) rain. So I finally drove my car to work this morning - first time since the cooler install. Previous mornings like this I would see oil temps around 210F. This morning I saw nothing over 185F.

Currently the fan is wired to run whenever the engine is on but at a very low speed(just enough to circulate a minimum of air through the cooler). I will still need to add a switch to run the fan at high speed when needed.

I'll probably pull the relay that controls the fan for winter operation as I like to see the oil a little warmer than 185.

But I was very pleased with the results. The cooler is doing exactly what I wanted/expected. Of course, a nice hot day will tell the whole story.

Demick

Posted by: AZ914 Feb 23 2005, 01:51 PM

Demick,

Congrats!!

Could you list out the parts you obtained for this project as well as approximate cost? I need some additional cooling and don't really want to cut up the front of my tub.
I'm a mechanical dumbass so I'd appreciate anything you have to offer.

Posted by: Demick Feb 23 2005, 02:11 PM

Here is what I used:

Mocal Thermostatic Sandwich plate SP1T ($90)
Derale Atomic Cool Fan and Cooler ($160)

and about $60 for the following:
Two socketless 90deg -8AN fittings (cooler end)
Two socketless straight -8AN fittings (sandwich plate end)
Two 1/2"MPT to -8AN fittings (adapters to sandwich plate)
6 feet blue socketless hose

And I'm using a PH3614 oil filter.

Posted by: AZ914 Feb 23 2005, 02:35 PM

Demick,

Thanks for the quick reply.. pardon the stupid questions:

Are you running a remote oil filter?
No thermostat but just a switch (coming soon) that you can turn on/off the fan?

Posted by: Demick Feb 23 2005, 02:43 PM

No remote oil filter. The sandwich plate fits between the oil filter and oil filter console. The filter ends up about 1.5" lower than stock position, which is why I run a different filter.

There is a built-in thermostat in the sandwich plate that doesn't force oil through the cooler until it gets to 180F.

But as far as the wiring, you can add a thermo-switch that will turn on the fan at a certain temperature. However, the only one that I could find that fit in-line with the oil lines turns on at 180F. That was lower than I wanted, so I designed mine to run at low speed whenever the engine is on. This way, it keeps a little air circulating, but doesn't draw much power and doesn't fully cool in this condition. I will add a manual switch that will bump the fan to full speed.

Here is how it is wired. I have a relay that turns power off and on to the fan based on the ignition (gets power anytime the ignition key is on). But the ground wire from the fan goes through 3 ohms of power resistors, which is how it runs at low speed. The manual switch will bypass the resistors and ground the fan normally which will give full speed. Currently I can't turn the fan completely off except by pulling the relay, which is easy to do. I'll probably end up pulling the relay during the winter and putting it back in during the summer.

Demick

Posted by: AZ914 Feb 23 2005, 02:47 PM

Sweet.. thanks for the information.

Posted by: jr91472 Feb 23 2005, 02:57 PM

cool stuff.

with temps hitting high 90s and 100s in the summer, I am probably right behind you.

thx

Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 23 2005, 02:59 PM

QUOTE (jr91472 @ Feb 23 2005, 01:57 PM)
cool stuff.

with temps hitting high 90s and 100s in the summer, I am probably right behind you.

thx

me too... trying to see if i can run a slim cooler up front in the valence....without cutting the tub.....

Posted by: AZ914 Feb 23 2005, 04:25 PM

Aaron,

If you figure something out with the valance, let me know. I'd think that a front mounted oil cooler might work a little better but I don't want to chop .

I may go with Demick's setup but I am curious about what you are looking at. I wouldn't mind cutting a hole in my $100 valance. How would you get the lines from behind the valance to the longs? In the wheel well? Would you need a better pump?

Posted by: kenpolives Feb 24 2005, 04:51 AM

I've got a similar set up on order for air cooled net (more $$$$ dam it) What did you up up the power wires to? I'll got webers in the car so could I just pull some power from the relay board?

Posted by: Demick Feb 24 2005, 09:47 AM

QUOTE (kenpolives @ Feb 24 2005, 02:51 AM)
What did you up up the power wires to? I'll got webers in the car so could I just pull some power from the relay board?

Like I said, I used a relay. Power wire goes through a relay directly to the battery. The relay is switched on and off by a wire running to the pos side of the coil.

Demick

Posted by: SKL1 Aug 7 2016, 11:08 AM

This is what I was looking for guys- thx. Search function wasn't much help- never is so I'm probably doing something wrong being relatively computer illerate. Thank God a 914 is computer illerate as well with carbs!

Posted by: RobW Aug 7 2016, 11:15 AM

Classic thread!

Posted by: Beebo Kanelle Aug 7 2016, 12:02 PM

Good Job! Additional cooling surface area is always gonna help.

A question: why wouldn't be OK to mount it inside the engine compartment? You have huge amounts of air exchange from the engine cooling fan.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Aug 7 2016, 12:17 PM

It warms up the already-warm air in the engine bay. It makes things more crowded, and there's a lot of the engine bay you want access to. It puts the cooler up high, which can make things a bit more difficult for your oil pump. And can get messy very quickly if you have to get the cooler out of the way or drain it for any reason.

To be clear: None of those are absolute reasons you cannot do it, but they are inconveniences that can be avoided.

--DD