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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Setrab oil cooler
Posted by: rtalich May 22 2015, 07:50 PM
Ordered the smaller setrab unit with fan to replace the oil cooler that was installed when I bought the car (pictures). The new setrab unit is way smaller than I thought it would be. In fact, it's about half the size of what's installed now. I'm pretty sure the bigger setrab unit with the double fans is too big for this space. Anyone see issues if I run two of these smaller units in series? That way I can install them staggered and will fit in that space quite nicely.
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Posted by: jim_hoyland May 22 2015, 07:54 PM
Interesting.. would a space between the trunk and cooler benefit air circulation ?
Posted by: McMark May 22 2015, 08:12 PM
Yes, but running them in parallel is better.
Posted by: Porschef May 22 2015, 08:27 PM
I'm very pleased with the performance of the single small unit I installed a month ago. While I see you're running a much more potent plant, it's worked great for my application. I think Zach is running a dual setup twinned. Your idea may work better, but will require more plumbing.
Posted by: rtalich May 22 2015, 08:28 PM
Yes, but running them in parallel is better.
Cool. Thanks Mark! I think I'll install this one and see how it does then decide if I want to put in another one. Right now it gets pretty hot. As expected I guess. It really hasn't been terribly hot yet weather wise here. But never really does for that matter. The hottest it's been while driving the car is about 75?? It does ok (so so) temperature wise on the freeway while moving. But once I get stuck in traffic or driving around town the temps get into the 200's pretty quick. In traffic I've seen 215-220 pretty regular. The hottest oil temp I've seen is 230!! I live in a hilly neighborhood and it got that high right before I got home.
Posted by: Porschef May 22 2015, 08:51 PM
If 220 is the highest temp your seeing, one of these units (I'm assuming it has the fan) may be enough to keep your engine where you'd like the temps to be. They're pretty efficient.
Posted by: patssle May 22 2015, 09:04 PM
It keeps my six cool with just one. (not braced in this photo)
Posted by: screenguy914 May 22 2015, 09:11 PM
Yes, but running them in parallel is better.
You sure? Running coolers in parallel, oil will take the path of least resistance. I suggest running in series, and maybe at least one in a better location for air flow, like in front. What size is the AN hose? Should be at least -12.
Sherwood
Posted by: stugray May 22 2015, 09:42 PM
Yes, but running them in parallel is better.
You sure? Running coolers in parallel, oil will take the path of least resistance. I suggest running in series, and maybe at least one in a better location for air flow, like in front. What size is the AN hose? Should be at least -12.
Sherwood
I thought about this very issue.
I put two of the smallest setrabs you can buy below the headlight buckets and vented through the foglamp holes.
I put them in series. I considered the parallel idea, but decided that there would be no way to know if you had even flow through both that way.
And I used 12AN for the full run to the front & back.
Posted by: aircooledtechguy May 22 2015, 11:27 PM
Those coolers work so well, I doubt you will need a second. Especially since you'll have a fan on it.
Posted by: McMark May 23 2015, 02:18 AM
Oil cooling works best when there is a large differential between the oil temp and the air temp. So the first cooler, with the hottest oil, will drop more temp, and the second cooler will be underperforming. Coolers in parallel will keep the differential high and will slow down the oil so it will Cool down more.
Plus, that path of least resistance thing is a little too idealistic. Yes, one will probably have more flow than the other, but I expect its negligible since the resistance to flow is fairly equal. It's like taking a garden hose, hooking up a y-adapter, and expecting that the flow between the two nozzles will be drastically different.
Posted by: bdstone914 May 23 2015, 06:27 AM
Yes, but running them in parallel is better.
Running two units in series doubles the pressure drop. Running them in parallel cur the pressure drop in half but you should run identical units or oil will take the path of least resistance which is the larger cooler. You end up with reduced flow and cooling with a series installation. Sometimes less than a single cooler depending on the coolers used. Will not affect main engine oil pressure as the loi cooler circuit has a pressure bypass.
Question is how much cooling do you need? I have never liked the under body cooler installations fue to hot and low air flow. Adding a fan only provides air flow on part of the cooler due to the motor center and the area covered with a circle on a square. They are more effective in the airflow path with cool air.
Posted by: SLITS May 23 2015, 07:46 AM
If Jim Lamonica (six here) would post, he runs two small coolers in series on his 3.6l 914/6. They are installed in the front horn/fog light areas. He's happy with the setup.
Posted by: Jake Raby May 23 2015, 09:12 AM
For a good oil, 230 isn't hot and some oils prefer to run hotter.
As long as you are maintaining oil pressure with a minimum of 1 bar at 1K RPM and 3 bar at 4,000 RPM when hot, I'd not be concerned with it.
Are you using Brad Penn? If so, a swap to JGR DT50 would probably drop the temps 10 degrees alone.
I have cooled a 3 liter 250HP twin plug T4 engine with a single Setrab cooler before and driven that car 14,000 miles in a single year, with ambient temps over 95F while running air conditioning. The highest OT it was was 225.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite May 24 2015, 04:54 PM
Dual SETRAB unit DOES fit in the same location that you want to put yours.
Proof:
In this pic I have headers, but they also fit just fine here with SSI heat exchangers and a muffler. Also keeps oil temps low. Mine went from ~240 to 205. Mine is themostat controlled, with the stat opening and the fans turning on at 180.
Zach
Posted by: rtalich May 26 2015, 09:09 AM
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions! I will install the single (with fan) and see how it does. I will report back when I do.
Posted by: Andyrew May 26 2015, 01:17 PM
Yes, but running them in parallel is better.
You sure? Running coolers in parallel, oil will take the path of least resistance. I suggest running in series, and maybe at least one in a better location for air flow, like in front. What size is the AN hose? Should be at least -12.
Sherwood
I thought about this very issue.
I put two of the smallest setrabs you can buy below the headlight buckets and vented through the foglamp holes.
I put them in series. I considered the parallel idea, but decided that there would be no way to know if you had even flow through both that way.
And I used 12AN for the full run to the front & back.
Stu,
You got pics of this? I am curious of the fit
Posted by: rtalich Jun 14 2015, 11:51 AM
Just a quick update. I finally installed the setrab cooler but have not driven it yet. Here is a pic of the old cooler. Not sure how it even worked at all. Air can't even get thru it!!
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Posted by: Mike Bellis Jun 14 2015, 11:54 AM
That's a cross flow cooler. Supposed to have more surface area and better oil mixing than a standard cooler.
Posted by: Andyrew Jun 14 2015, 12:01 PM
/\ I agree, turn the cooler so you can see it at an angle, You'll see it actually flows fairly well.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jun 14 2015, 12:03 PM
Dual SETRAB unit DOES fit in the same location that you want to put yours.
Proof:
In this pic I have headers, but they also fit just fine here with SSI heat exchangers and a muffler. Also keeps oil temps low. Mine went from ~240 to 205. Mine is themostat controlled, with the stat opening and the fans turning on at 180.
Zach
Those fans do a good job of restricting the volume of cooling air through the coolers. Take them out or at least snip off the ends of the tie wraps.
Posted by: bdstone914 Jun 14 2015, 12:08 PM
In referance to posts #18 and #19:
Yes that is a cross flow cooler as are most of the other ones mentioned in this thread. That design is a stacked plate cooler having been sold under Long Mfg, Borg Warner and other manufacturers names. Not really better. They lack fins and are air side limited on heat dissipation.
How many radiators have you seen made after 1930 that did not have fins?
They do not flow air well. Long Mfg used to have the BTU heat rejection listed on their website showing this style cooler clearly removes less heat that a similar plate and fin cooler.
The design dates back to WWII where it was used as an aircraft cooler ( P-38 ?) with very high air speed and fins could get flattened.
They also need to be rubber mounted to prevent vibration damage. Ford used them as power steering coolers on diesel trucks with a high failure rate. Not a good choice for an under body cooler in the hot & poor airflow area under a 914 trunk. Regardless of what cooler you use an oil temp gauge will tell you if you have enough cooler.
Bruce
Posted by: rtalich Jun 14 2015, 12:19 PM
Thanks guys!! I will be driving it this week and I'll let you know how the setrab compares.
Posted by: stugray Jun 14 2015, 01:03 PM
Stu,
You got pics of this? I am curious of the fit
The best documentation of the build is in this thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=56102&st=240
Posted by: rtalich Jun 15 2015, 06:26 PM
Well... It was pretty warm today... 80 degrees out. Oil temp got up to 270!!! Found out when I got home that I forgot to hook up the gnd wire for the fan!! Pretty sure fans work better when they are hooked up to power correctly.
Posted by: Philip W. Jun 16 2015, 06:58 AM
Well... It was pretty warm today... 80 degrees out. Oil temp got up to 270!!! Found out when I got home that I forgot to hook up the gnd wire for the fan!! Pretty sure fans work better when they are hooked up to power correctly.
on saturday here it was between 85 early and 95 later, and my 2.0 was pushing 235 and i was concerned about that. I am using Valvoline VR1, now, but otherwise the Gibbs oil Jake recommends and so i would immagine that it is formulated for temps like that - anyway ive been considering doing one of thse set ups as well to try and get those temps a bit lower, because that was just flat land driving. and ive been told that 220 would be a better running temp to hold under performance driving. So my question is, what will a set up like this run cost wise? and can a novice like myself do the work?(i've done most everything on this car myself so far-thanks to the World) or am i better off taking over to the local shop?(Bob Woodman-experienced 911 performance and racing shop). thank, and sorry for the hijack...
Posted by: stugray Jun 16 2015, 07:59 AM
Well... It was pretty warm today... 80 degrees out. Oil temp got up to 270!!! Found out when I got home that I forgot to hook up the gnd wire for the fan!! Pretty sure fans work better when they are hooked up to power correctly.
That sounds REALLY hot for driving around town.
I start getting nervous with anything above 250 oil temps and that is racing which is ~20 minutes of WOT.
I got to 250 with a brand new engine rebuild on the track and no external oil coolers (stock cooler only).
Then I plumbed in the front coolers (which also adds ~3 quarts extra) and cant get my temps UP TO 200 without driving hard.
With my front oil coolers TAPED OVER, I havent seen oil temps get even UP TO 220 yet this year with full track time.
Posted by: era vulgaris Jun 16 2015, 08:26 AM
Not the best pic, but the only one I have of my setup (taken from the PO's FS listing, but the setup hasn't changed).
Setrab oil cooler with a pair of 5" Spal puller fans. Fans are activated via a 180 degree thermostatic switch, and I've also got the Tangerine inline oil cooler bypass so nothing goes to the oil cooler until temps get up. The front of the cooler has a manifold with two inlets that attaches to the orange ducting. There's a NACA duct in the rocker feeding one of the inlets, and the other inlet is fed via fresh air from the engine grill.
This setup is actually too good. I have to beat the shit out of the car to get oil temps over 200. Typical around town driving has me at 160-180. I actually need to figure out a way to get my oil temps higher!
I've tried removing the ducting, so that the oil cooler is only fed by the air flowing under the car, but the impact was only minimal. And this is in 90+ degree NC summer weather.
I've been thinking about getting rid of the fans.
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Posted by: JmuRiz Jun 16 2015, 10:22 AM
Cool setup, I was thinking of doing an NACA duct on my rockers to do something similar when I install my Setrab/Spall combination as well.
On a side-note, what exhaust/heat exchanger setup is that? Very nice.
And I guess that the 2270 is tuned well to have those temps...good stuff.
Posted by: era vulgaris Jun 16 2015, 11:08 AM
Cool setup, I was thinking of doing an NACA duct on my rockers to do something similar when I install my Setrab/Spall combination as well.
On a side-note, what exhaust/heat exchanger setup is that? Very nice.
And I guess that the 2270 is tuned well to have those temps...good stuff.
Thanks! It's the Tangerine 1 5/8 header into an EVO II silencer. It sounds pretty amazing actually. That little box is the Tangerine heat exchanger.
As far as tune, I'm still working out some bugs in the idle circuit of the Dells, but the temps on the 2270 are great. Low 300's on the CHT if I'm putzing around town, if I'm really gentle it doesn't even break 300. Unless I spend significant amounts of time driving in anger, it doesn't ever approach 400.
I'm just worried my oil temps are too low, so that I'm not getting proper lubrication in the engine.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 16 2015, 11:39 AM
Shutters. Put them on the front side of the cooler. Look for some mini-blinds on Craigslist or some such. Push-pull cable to open and close them.
--DD
Posted by: era vulgaris Jun 16 2015, 11:53 AM
Shutters. Put them on the front side of the cooler. Look for some mini-blinds on Craigslist or some such. Push-pull cable to open and close them.
--DD
Haha
Posted by: SLITS Jun 16 2015, 02:00 PM
Shutters. Put them on the front side of the cooler. Look for some mini-blinds on Craigslist or some such. Push-pull cable to open and close them.
--DD
Haha
That's what is/was on a Diesel Truck Radiators to control cooling ... no laughing matter (not mini blinds though).
On the race cars, we used Duct (duck) tape to cover portions of the cooler to get temps up when we needed.
Posted by: rtalich Jun 16 2015, 06:05 PM
Another warm day on the way home from work. Helps to have the fan working cuz the highest temp I saw today was 215!!
Posted by: McMark Jun 16 2015, 09:06 PM
Posted by: maf914 Jun 17 2015, 07:22 AM
Setrab oil cooler with a pair of 5" Spal puller fans.
Era Vulgaris, What size or model number Setrab cooler are you using? Thanks.
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Posted by: era vulgaris Jun 17 2015, 11:53 AM
Setrab oil cooler with a pair of 5" Spal puller fans.
Era Vugaris, What size or model number Setrab cooler are you using? Thanks.
Had to dig through the box of receipts the PO gave me!
Setrab STD 134 bought from Elephant Racing.
I'm not currently seeing it on their website, (maybe it's NLA?) but they do have sizes that are close.
http://www.elephantracing.com/oilhandling/setrab/setraboilcooler.htm
Posted by: Philip W. Jun 17 2015, 01:06 PM
how are you tapping the new oil lines to the new cooler in to the old?
Posted by: era vulgaris Jun 17 2015, 03:45 PM
how are you tapping the new oil lines to the new cooler in to the old?
Stock oil cooler gets removed. This is the tangerine oil cooler take off kit, with the air deflector to improve cooling on cylinders 3 and 4.
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Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jun 17 2015, 06:48 PM
Ohhh. I like that! Is it also full flow?
Zach
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