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Posted by: raceforfun May 24 2015, 05:02 AM

Hello Everyone,

I'm making this post for a friend who is selling his 914-6 Sportomatic

its a restoration object right now and he don't have the spare time to restore it to its original mint condition condition, it has Matching numbers and its all original.

for Further serious inquries please PM me and i will get back to you.


Best Regards,

Posted by: thieuster May 24 2015, 05:47 AM

Wow, a Sportmatic = hen's teeth. Please be so kind to post some pics of the car! Especially some sportmatic details. I'm sure that a few pics will attract a lot interest and it makes asking questions a lot easier (pics say more than words!).

Finally, you tell us that you're in Europe. So am I. Without revealing the car's exact location: can you be more specific about the car's whereabouts? Country and or region.

Menno

Posted by: Kansas 914 May 24 2015, 06:05 AM

Posted by: RobW May 24 2015, 06:26 AM

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 24 2015, 06:55 AM

Posted by: Mueller May 24 2015, 08:54 AM

Wife and I saw a 914-6 Sportmatic at the 914 International meet in Deauville, France many years ago.

I think it was blue, trying to find my pictures...this was back in 2003.

Posted by: bandjoey May 24 2015, 09:07 AM

The there are 914 interested buyers here, 114 serious buyers here, and 14 really really serious buyers here. More info will get you in contact with the real buyer. Can't wait to see it. and the selling price is?

Posted by: Maltese Falcon May 24 2015, 09:37 AM

You might want to have the Admin. move this to the Classified /For sale section
PM sent to you

Posted by: porbmw May 24 2015, 10:10 AM

And 1 sceptic.......

With a dash of optimism

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Clone May 24 2015, 10:14 AM

FWIW, I have an NOS 914-6 Sporto engine harness

Posted by: raceforfun May 24 2015, 10:55 AM

Hello everyone, thanks for the response,


The car is located in Scandinavia 50km from Copenhagen. Its Silver and suposed to be the only car delivered new in the color Silver, also its sold new in Sweden and was in traffic first in 1971-03-25 in Sweden.

Matching number car with very much documentation.

The car has been repainted somewhere in the 80s of what we know, other then that its 100% original, engine/gearbox is matching numbers and panels are original as well.

The car as you see on the pictures are now supposed to be restored into mint condition the car is stripped down ready for repaint with all parts stored in great condition.
Also the interior is taken out and is well stored and is in good condition!


the only rust on the car is the battery holder and the oil tank, other then that totally rust free.

The car has stood at same place for around 12 years now, and it runs perfectly.

its a very good restoration object.

the car will come at a fairly low price considering its a abit of a restore object. for serious inquries please PM me.

Best regards,


Attached image(s)

Posted by: raceforfun May 24 2015, 10:58 AM

picture from the rear.


Regards,


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Gustl May 24 2015, 12:00 PM

cool

I have an old sales ad of this car (DPU 188)

Posted by: SirAndy May 24 2015, 12:20 PM

This car, 914.143.0156?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=membervins&action=view&viewid=11550

Posted by: raceforfun May 24 2015, 12:34 PM

Hello Andy! yes that is the car!

and the paperwork from Jurgen i have in good condition together with TONS of paperwork from when it was new untill now.


Best regards

Posted by: thieuster May 24 2015, 12:35 PM

That $ 13,000 asking price back in 97. I'm curious to know what the asking price is nowadays...

Menno

Posted by: OmaPossu May 24 2015, 12:39 PM

I have some sales pics from 2009 too.

Posted by: JmuRiz May 24 2015, 12:50 PM

I'll pay double the old sale price

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 24 2015, 01:19 PM

Wow! And a '71 to boot. Can't be but a couple of those around.

Posted by: raceforfun May 24 2015, 01:43 PM

there is one for sale at Mobile in good condition for 140k euro, I want less then 50% off that price, need it removed asap!


Best regards,

Posted by: thieuster May 24 2015, 02:39 PM

PM sent

Menno

Posted by: raceforfun May 24 2015, 02:46 PM

Answered :-)


Regards,

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 24 2015, 04:49 PM

I think there were 21 of them, and only 4 1970 Sportos. (I could have that backwards, but I think I don't.)

I saw a silver Sporto here in the Bay Area at a swap meet in the early 1990s. No idea what happened to it after that, though.

--DD

Posted by: raceforfun May 25 2015, 01:33 AM

CAR IS STILL AVAILABLE!


more Pictures will come today on the "sporttronic" details and also the chassi nr sign so people can confirm its the specific car :-)


PM for serious inquires


Best regards,

Posted by: raceforfun May 25 2015, 09:48 AM

Hello everyone!

got the car to the garage now!

some pictures for you guys on the original service book, Chassi number and a very intresting letter from Porsche about the Sportmatic cars in german from 1982 and the car with engine/gearbox on the trailer.


Best regards,





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Posted by: raceforfun May 25 2015, 09:49 AM

Chassi Nr


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Posted by: raceforfun May 25 2015, 09:50 AM

Letter from Porsche from 1982


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Posted by: raceforfun May 25 2015, 09:50 AM

last picture of letter from Porsche


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Posted by: thieuster May 25 2015, 10:14 AM

Oh that's interesting info! If one of you wants to have the letter translated, just let me know!

Menno

Posted by: raceforfun May 25 2015, 10:20 AM

This is the original Service book !



Best regards,





Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914bub May 25 2015, 10:45 AM

Menno
I'm pretty sure we ALL do!

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 25 2015, 10:50 AM

Yes, please! Each one appears to contradict other information we have on the number of Sportos built, and they even contradict each other if I am reading them correctly.

--DD

Posted by: Gustl May 25 2015, 11:49 AM

interesting details:
- the VIN tag is not in the correct place
- the engine number is for US market
- the letter from Porsche doesn't say anything about a car delivered to Sweden, while other European countries like Swizerland, France and Austria are listed ... US market cars are not listed

Posted by: raceforfun May 25 2015, 12:27 PM

The car was delivered new in Sweden and was in traffic 1971-03-25 for the first time in Sweden.

I have the paperwork for it, have just not posted it.

Regards,

Posted by: thieuster May 25 2015, 12:42 PM

Wolfgang's German is off course better than mine. He's from German speaking Austria and I am from The Netherlands. Although only one country to the left, our languages are quite different. Remember, I'm not a native speaker in English or German. So with my School German into School English... here we go!

Dear Mr Rheindorf,

We congratualate you with the aquisition of a rare product of our brand like this 914/6 with the Sportmatic gear. This car wasn't built as a series. Therefore was it hard for us to figure out how many were produced.

After Research were able to retrieve from the production planning data that there are 22 engines built with the Sportmatic gear. Engine-wise (this engine has special control add-ons for the semi-automatic gear), there are 19 built with European specs and 4 with the 'clean exhaust' [my interpretation] for the USA.

There was not much to find in the car production data about the fact how many of these machines [Aggregate] were installed in the 914/6 or in the Special Versions of the 911 T. (The 911 model already had the 2.2 lt. engine during that period 1970/71).

Only after we checked the Rolodex [best translation of 'Kartei' I think] of the Customer Service, dear Mr Reindorf, we were able to answer your question without hesitation. We were even surprised ourselves to find out that back then, these 914/6 were built! The collegues that were part of the project only had very vague memories about the few Sportmatic cars. If we would have been unable to retrieve the correct number, we would have relied on the estimates the colleagues and then we would have said that only 3 or 4 cars were built.

But things were different. So, cars built:

3 cars for das Werk [=The Company] (for testing and and other trials)
2 cars for the Porsche family (one car went straight to Austria)
3 cars to the Glöckler company in Frankfurt
1 car went to the Hahn company in Stuttgart (this is your car, dear Mr Rheindorf)
2 cars were received by our agent Sonauto in France
1 car went to AMAG in Switzerland
2 cars landed in Hamburg with the Raffay company and
2 cars were sold by the Schulz company in Lintorf near Düsseldorf

all together 16 cars.

The were built between 9/1970 and 6/1971.

We hope that this information will help you further,

Kind Regards,



So, in total, 23 engines were built (19 EU + 4 US), 16 cars were sold/given away. I hope tha this translation helps - I am sure that Wolfgang will correct my translation when he sees reason to do so!

Menno

Posted by: raceforfun May 25 2015, 12:53 PM

Thanks for the great info!

this paper comes with the car and are not specific for this car, its just a document that came with the previous sale :-)

Best regards,

Posted by: rgalla9146 May 25 2015, 03:03 PM

The aluminum ID tag has been 'touched' as a result of crash damage.
The latch panel brace should be resistance welded not poorly mig welded
Right front fender appears to be replaced. Still has small metal bracket that held rear of bumper cover on '75-'76 cars
Check out the goofy vacuum plumbing on the intake manifold for the clutch diaphragm.
Also, is that an exhaust pipe under the engine for a front engine car ?

Posted by: Maltese Falcon May 25 2015, 04:34 PM

Definitely a fwd cat exhaust pipe, with the flex joint. Maybe just another collateral surplus piece from a different project... wound up on the trailer. Someone should do a quick "Eyes-on" verification on this car +buy it (if it passes the scrutiny).
It's too rare to be left on the market for too long.

Posted by: altitude411 May 25 2015, 05:30 PM

* edit, (withdraw my opinion)

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 25 2015, 06:35 PM

We have not heard a price yet.

Posted by: Mr.242 May 25 2015, 06:57 PM

This little gem is going to cause a small country to go bankrupt. HUGE historical value with this car.

So very cool to see it come up for sale here. 1 of 16, I'd be letting Porsche know about this one to see if they'd want it back.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon May 25 2015, 07:00 PM

Jeff...just pm him...he will reply with price.
Then pm me , we can compare to my quoted price !
Marty

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 25 2015, 08:17 PM

Other sources have stated that 21 Sportos were made, or 25. The last I heard, the 25 figure was the most authoritative one. There were 21 built for one model year (I think 71) and 4 built for the other (70). None for the 72 model year.

--DD

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 25 2015, 08:53 PM

Way overpriced at $62 large for the USA market

When complete, running /6s are available for slightly more than that, a basket case project on the other side of the world should be half that amount. I hear the sportos are a novelty, not much of a drivers machine.

Posted by: SirAndy May 25 2015, 10:36 PM

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=87178

Posted by: pete000 May 25 2015, 11:20 PM

I know some one who has a Sporto oil tank. They were different than the regular six oil tanks. I heard Aase Brothers bought a bunch from the factory that were dead inventory way back when.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon May 26 2015, 12:11 AM

My first 6 conversion in 1977 utilized the Sporto oil tank, it was the only tank that the dealer could source back then. This is the 2.7 turbo narrow body '74 photographed at the front entrance to CBS Television City, L.A. 1977.
The sportomatic tank required 2 metric male-end plugs to cap off the 2 extra oil tank pipes. I still use this same oil tank on my (wide body) 914 today
Marty

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 03:48 AM

Hello everyone,


The car if people didn't see or i missed to write it down,

it ran perfectly Before we stripped it down in the shop in both Engine/gearbox.


Need the car removed as soon as possible for a new Project.


price is 500 000 SEK.


Regards,

Posted by: Mark Henry May 26 2015, 06:28 AM

Exchange that would be just under $60,000 USD or $75,000 CAN.

For what it is I'm thinking it's not that far off base.

Posted by: 914Next May 26 2015, 06:53 AM

Agree. Sounds a bit high for a disassembled -6 but given it's rarity it's not far off at all in my view. Would love to consider it but I'd need to have it restored by someone else since I have no skills!

Posted by: JmuRiz May 26 2015, 07:11 AM

Good info and great photo...skinny-fender 2.7 turbo. Sounds like something I'd like to turn my skinny-fender /6 conversion with a 2.7 into

Posted by: thieuster May 26 2015, 08:17 AM

Well... disassembled isn't always a disadvantage... That way you're able to see what you're buying! Especially the hidden parts are better accessable.

Menno

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 09:03 AM

took a photo of the VIN today for you guys.


Car is still available for fast delivery.


The best regards,





Attached image(s)

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 09:06 AM

This is a very special letter from Porsche that i have with the car.

Its a paperwork from Porsche that identifys the specific car owned by Urban Knutsson



"Dear Mr. Knutsson,

Thank you very much for your letter of October 10.
Referring to the latter and to our phone call of
October 9, we herewith inform you that of the type
914/6 Sportomatic we built a total of five cars for
experimental purposes.

Your car, which is a really rare one, was exported
to Sweden in February 1971.

In the hope of thus having been of some assistance
to you, we remain,

Sincerly,

Dr. Ing. h.c.F.Porsche
Aktiengesellschaft
Public Relations - Sports
i.V.

Jürgen Barth"


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 26 2015, 11:47 AM

Heh, I should have remembered that thread...




A whole lot of the Aase parts were bought by Parts Obsolete when Aase closed down. Not sure where the 914 stuff went after that, I think George bought a bunch of them?

--DD

Posted by: Niklas May 26 2015, 12:10 PM

It have not been in traffic for 34 years.

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 01:54 PM

PRICE REDUCTION!

i need the car removed ASAP for new project!


[u] 400 000 SEK OR BID



Best regards,

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 01:55 PM

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 26 2015, 02:18 PM

This sounds more and more like a scam.

1. "Selling for a friend" means you do not own this car and you have not shown any proof that you have authority to sell it.

2. You ask an outrageous price for a basket case project that is likely not complete or at least not accurately represented.

3. You have repeatedly been impatient to sell this high priced item - most USA 914 buyers do not have that amount of money to eagerly spend without careful evaluation...why not find a European buyer?

4. The photos and information posted, do not show much detail of the car to make a complete assessment of what is being offered or substantiate your credibility as a seller.

5. Now the price is dropped 20% in an apparent fire sale, just 2 days after it was first posted.

This smells like its too good to be true, and it probably is.

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 02:46 PM

my dear fellow..


before you acually try to trash talk people over the internet please provide more information...

It's one of my good friends selling the car yes but i'm helping him selling it, i posted it at this forum since perhaps someone here would enjoy buying this rare 914-6 and restore it. but with your response i'm now considering removing the add.

I think alot of people dont give a damn about what you think of the price...The car is working 100% its just stripped down and everything is put in big crates and boxes becuse it was suppose to be repainted. i dont know what more i have to say about that to you. we drove it into the workshop before stripping it down.

also yes he needs it gone fast since he has bought another car and does not have the space to keep the car.


Yes the price has dropped becuse he is getting another car within 2 weeks, do i have you tell you what car that is to make you beleave me as well??

and finally sir,

I have over 250 photos of the car with full documentation and interior pictures coming tomorrow.


I do NOT like to be called a SCAMMER!

Posted by: Gustl May 26 2015, 03:17 PM

by any chance, would you tell me the tranny number?

it should be very close to 761 0020 with tranny type 914/05

Posted by: 914Next May 26 2015, 03:23 PM

Why am I so intrigued by this? if it's real and all there, who is the best person in the states to do a restoration on this car? What would be the realistic cost to restore? I know…need more pics.

Steve

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 03:32 PM

Hello Gustl,

i have made up an album with some pictures, tomorrow i will post interior pictures from the interior that is taken out of the car.

https://www.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/9146

I have to get a picture tomorrow for the tranny number Gustl, got these pictures from the owner of the car today.

The Owner and me are not the best people on 914s so it might sound like i'm abit off ha ha :-)


Best regards,

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 03:35 PM

you have a PM with alot of pictures and more to come tomorrow :-)


Best regards,

Posted by: Mike Bellis May 26 2015, 05:39 PM

This link does not work for me.

Posted by: Chris914n6 May 26 2015, 06:40 PM

Tell me about the trailer. I don't think I've seen one like that in the US. I might have to make one

Posted by: theleschyouknow May 26 2015, 09:04 PM

got no dog in the hunt probably never will
hope it's legit and gets restored proper but this has my spidey sense tingling

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 26 2015, 09:25 PM

Look, no one is trash talking anybody, just the stating the facts as they appear to be at face value from your posts and responses. Review the posts in this thread to date and see it from our perspective. This is small community and we try not to be gullible.

I have been around here for awhile so my credibility speaks for itself. You have not established yours yet.

You show up here just two days ago with what appears to be a rare 914 asking a large sum for a basket case project car half way around the world from us that you do not even own, and expect a hasty sale without providing significant details. The value of these cars is largely based on condition. Completeness and rarity are other factors.

Can you reasonably expect anyone here to send you big bucks on the limited info presented? To this point you have given only limited information on the condition of the car and its parts. Are all parts present to complete the car 100% and included in the sale? Are they 100% perfect parts or is anything broken, damaged worn out or missing? What is the condition of the drivetrain, exhaust, braking, and electrical systems? The sporto cars have parts that are NLA - what is the status of these parts? What is the exact condition of the chassis - any rust or body work other than painting needed?

You have not responded to the basic question about whether or not you have the authority to sell the car...what arrangements are there for that? Why is the seller not selling it directly? Does the car need to be federalized to bring it to the USA?

Answers to these and more questions, in addition to the photos would help expedite the sale of the car for a fair value and bolster your credibility. Just asking you nicely to be accountable.

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 11:14 PM

Hello Chris,

there is alot of these trailers here in Scandinavia, alot of people use a brand called LÖÖVE, Swedish made full aluminium trailer, very low weight and easy to use.

Best regards,

Posted by: raceforfun May 26 2015, 11:37 PM

Hello Jeff, I understand your concern.

as i said Before, i'm just trying to help my Close friend Selling the car, since he is not good with internet or forums, i'm providing every bit off info i get with you.

i will tell you what i know off the car, the rusty question you can take a look at my link at dropbox to view, i have taken photos of the rusty parts of the car there for everyone to view with their own Eyes. I will try show you and everyone the Gearbox number and also today i will bring out the interior out of the crates and post Pictures of it.

The car is drivable, it was driven into the shop, i would guess a good Engine service would be a good idea becuse its been sitting for a very long time. but Everything works and the interior is in good condition,

the brakes work without problem, also the electricity and gauges Before it was stripped down it all worked.


if the car wont sell he will have to keep it, save up the Money are restore it himself, he already have a price to fix all the rust on the car that includes the battery holder and the oil tank, and repaint the car to get it in good finish and make a complete overhaul.


Best regards.

Posted by: Chris914n6 May 27 2015, 01:06 AM

If you can afford to drop $60k on a rare 914 you can afford to hire an agent that has these answers and will handle the transaction at that end.

Second, the only way to ship a car and loose parts across the ocean is in a crate. Again, 3rd party involvement.

I think the price is premium for a restored driver. The rare factor doesn't cover the labor to put it together or do a proper restoration, which this deserves.

This car is also not something that will sell in days at any price point. I think a reality check is in order and I don't say this to offend anyone.

Lastly, thanks for the answers to my trailer question.

Posted by: thieuster May 27 2015, 03:50 AM

Given the asking prices in the US vs the prices in EU, I think that there's only a very, very small chance that this car will cross the ocean.

There's one other Sportomatic for sale in Europe, with a price tag north of 100,000 euros. Unrealisticly priced perhaps? From a US point of view certainly. From a European point of view? Well, I don't know...

Now... take the asking price, add 40,000 euros and you're also above the the 100,000 euro price. But then you have a car that's rebuilt by yourself or under your eyes, so you know what you're get.

My prediction: this car will stay in Europe or will travel to the East, where there's a lot more money to spend.

Menno

Posted by: raceforfun May 27 2015, 04:00 AM

Hello everyone here is a Quick update, got Pictures now from the garage with some numbers and interior Pictures and such for you guys.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v4ls0sbcwp5olya/AAA5iWOFOvUyEkKN8LgweoXAa?dl=0


Car is still available,


Best regards,

Oliver

Posted by: mepstein May 27 2015, 06:19 AM

Shouldn't this be in the classifieds.

Posted by: ripper911 May 27 2015, 08:01 AM

I wouldn't have seen it.

Posted by: Chris H. May 27 2015, 08:06 AM

I think you may have to sign up for a dropbox account Mike. It's free.

Posted by: KELTY360 May 27 2015, 08:32 AM

I don't know about you, but any time I have to 'sign up' for something, it's not free. BTW, I was able to access the link without signing up. Just close the box in the upper left corner.

Posted by: Chris H. May 27 2015, 08:59 AM

The "basic" 2GB box is free (no, I'm not a dropbox salesperson ). I can't get in without signing up but maybe my PC settings don't allow it.

Posted by: r_towle May 27 2015, 09:06 AM

Oliver,

Please put all the pictures in one place, in one album.
Please post detailed pictures of the condition of the entire body and do not leave out any details regarding the rusty parts underneath...those need to be seen.

We all know what to look for, so please dont hide any of it.

For all the whining...at this price, I would either hop on a plane to do the deal, or send over a trusted third party to do the same for me...

Any car over 25 years old does not need to be federalized upon arrival, just upon registration, at least that is my understanding.

I would agree that selling this in Europe will be much faster and easier.

Oliver, answer every single question Gustl has....he knows all the cars in Europe, and if he is convinced of the provenance of the car, he may be helpful to you as you locate a valid buyer.

Post the pics...cant even bother considering it without those pictures.


Rich

Posted by: andys May 27 2015, 09:29 AM

I have a Dropbox account. The link shows "Folder Empty" Anyone else get something different?

Andys

Posted by: Kansas 914 May 27 2015, 09:36 AM

I see the same thing (Empty). It is very easy to move items from the folder instead of copy the files. Probably what happened. Did someone archive them somewhere?

Posted by: rick 918-S May 27 2015, 09:39 AM

Can't see them either. I have an account.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 27 2015, 10:03 AM

I looked at the file this morning, early, like 0500. There was maybe 25 pictures of a lot of parts in boxes, interior parts, suspension, dash, etc. Just checked it now and it shows "empty".

Posted by: raceforfun May 27 2015, 10:46 AM

Hello everyone!!


i kinda deleted it all and now posted everything back on again ha ha..

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zfn3il82f6h6bfi/AABoeWBgQ8EQfejXBu1C_tAoa?dl=0


i hope everyone can see these pictures now ?


Best regards,

Posted by: SirAndy May 27 2015, 10:56 AM

Works for me. Just close the "Sign Up" popup window (Big X in the upper right corner) and you can get to the pictures.

Posted by: raceforfun May 27 2015, 11:01 AM

Hello Rich,

i hope these pictures tells you everything you and the people in here wanted to know, really got a camera on anything i could and all the rust.

Best regards,

Posted by: r_towle May 27 2015, 01:28 PM

sadly the key area of rust have been left out of these pictures.

Let me be VERY specific...

Lower passenger side of the car, just behind the door, the bottom area is named the longitudinal....that area underneath the battery area.

Take pictures from outside, down low, aiming right at it from the side.
Take pictures of the jack post.
Take pictures underneath the rear suspension on that side specifically where it attaches to the unibody at the front of the trailing arm, not the rear...

Get under the car and take pictures from below of that area.

Now stand up and start at the battery tray (I saw one picture that does not show the problem area)

take pictures all the way down into that corner.

If you have questions, please copy and past this into the search window here.

+hell +hole

Just like I typed it.

Please post clear, high resolution, pictures of both sides of the car, specifically to the area I described above.

I can only see 25 pictures, none of which interest me until I see the pictures above.
After that, the rest of the pictures are worth reviewing....but only if the car is not totally rusted out in those places.

rich

Posted by: Gustl May 27 2015, 01:41 PM

could you please take a photo like this one - of the transmission number

this one is at the bottom of the transmission



thank you in advance

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 27 2015, 02:57 PM

This is a terrific car if everything checks out and it seems it is going in that direction.

I do not believe I have ever seen one of our cars rust out where the oil tank goes like this one has. That side appears worse than the typically bad battery box/hell hole.

Regardless, this car has a heritage which makes it worth restoring and it should be a concours restoration. I wish this car would come to the USA and stay here. While I am dreaming, I hope whomever ends up with it, documents the complete restoration on this site for all of us to enjoy. GLWTS.

Posted by: naro914 May 27 2015, 03:22 PM

Jeff
sorry, I think you're being a bit harsh on this guy. Go back and read YOUR post, you are absolutely trashing him. Every post is antagonistic. To be honest, I was a bit shocked at your post about this being a scam. Yes, you have a lot of credibility on this board, more than most, which is exactly why you should not post things like that without verified proof. Your opinion DOES matter and could very well hurt a very legitimate offer to sell a very rare vehicle.

Remember this is 914WORLD, not 914USA. People all over the world see these listings, so no, he is probably not expecting someone from the US to just drop a chunk of change site unseen. Maybe people in Europe will see it (as a few have posted). Maybe he's posted this on a dozen different sites and 914world is just one of them...???

Heck...how many people here in the US have sold cars to people in Europe with a few pictures, a couple emails, and a wire transfer? I've sold 4, all of which transpired within a couple days of my original post or listing, and were completed with nowhere near the 3rd degree everyone here is asking of this guy.

Do scams happen? Sure, every day. But he has already posted more information than most others ever dream of. The letters alone are worth a small fortune. If you think the price is too high, that's your opinion. The market will bear what the market will bear.

I'll get off my soapbox now. And no, lets not turn this into an argument thread. The guy potentially has one of the rarest 914's around for sale. If someone is going to drop that kind of coin, I'm sure they are not stupid enough to do it without some sort of due diligence. In private. As it should be...

Posted by: SixerJ May 27 2015, 03:23 PM

I agree with Cairo, looks increasingly likely that this is checking out as the genuine article. Even looking at the limited pictures of the battery tray etc. Rust has definitely not been sleeping with this one unfortunately.

Hate to disagree, but I hope she stays in Europe, if I hadn't already got a project six I would be seriously considering this car

Good luck with the sale and will probably be kicking myself in a few years time

Posted by: Heeltoe914 May 27 2015, 03:26 PM

The link is working for me Picture look very legit. FYI the seller may have no idea of the rust areas on a 914? If your not a 914 NUT like us its just a old car. Asking for pictures of or showing him what to take pictures of like someone did of the transmission number might get this car a US buyer. 30K offer plus 3000 ship and inspection Not bad. if put together right I would say a 90k car. IMHO

Posted by: raceforfun May 27 2015, 03:31 PM

Hello Gustl!


i will try do this tomorrow or get someone to take a photo of this!

Best regards,

Posted by: raceforfun May 27 2015, 03:34 PM

Hello Rich,

i will see what i can do tomorrow i wont be enable to be at the garage but i will be very specific with what type of photos i want.

best regards,

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 27 2015, 04:01 PM

PM I received:

"Hello!

My name is Niklas.
I know more about the car the Sportomatic.
The seller (not Oliver ) is a cardealer.

The car is not drivable.
It have not been driven for maybe 35 years what i understand.

I will look at the car live tomorrow.
It is in shop 20 km from my house.
Oliver do not know that but the seller Ola know that.

For 6 years ago the car was for sale for 10000 Euro.

I will update tomorrow if you like to know.

Regardes

Niklas Ekström
Porsche klubb Sverige
914 register responsible"

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 27 2015, 04:16 PM

Outstanding! I would give 10K Euros plus shipping all day long for that car.

Posted by: raceforfun May 28 2015, 07:01 AM

Hello everyone!

within 2 hours i will post a Picture of the tranny nummer!


Best regards,

Posted by: Mueller May 28 2015, 08:41 AM

We have to remember that the price listed is the asking price...

Who knows, someone could be really serious and show up with a cash offer and walk(drive) away with the car for much less? Most people when selling a vehicle aim high and expect less so no harm in asking a higher price.

My biggest concern with vehicles like this is it disappearing forever or for decades when it is put in a garage and forgotten about due to the owner not being able or willing to restore it. We often hear of someone passing away and later on a valuable or rare car or collection is found.

The biggest fear here is what if the owner passes and the family or whomever gets control of the car has no idea what it is and lets it waste away or sells as scrap?

For some odd reason, I would rather have this Sportomatic instead of a 914 GT with the M471 package.

Posted by: raceforfun May 28 2015, 09:00 AM

here comes the transmission number! it was hell getting a clear view on it..


Gustl, i hope this makes you happy!



Best regards,


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Johny Blackstain May 28 2015, 09:05 AM

I flipped the image so it could be read-
"914/7610023"

Has anyone ever driven a sportomatic & if so, can they describe how to?


Attached image(s)

Posted by: raceforfun May 28 2015, 09:10 AM

thank you sir!

Posted by: Gustl May 28 2015, 09:40 AM

yepp - thank you


what I can tell you, that this isn't the original matching transmission
of course it's an original 1971 Sportomatic, but it's a factory replacement, very likely an early warrenty exchange (1971 or 1972 ...??)

so, to be precise, it's not a fully matching numbers car ...

Posted by: Gustl May 28 2015, 09:46 AM

yepp - I used to own the very last factory built 914-6 Sporto

it's very relaxed dirving in city and lowlands, but you can't compare it driving a 5-speed in the mountains - at least with the original engine
this is one reason why I sold it, because my prefered routes wind up high

a friend has his Sporto for almost 40 years, and he replaced the engine by a 2.4 @ about 170 HP - this thing is a cool ride even in the mountains

Posted by: sb914 May 28 2015, 09:47 AM

Posted by: raceforfun May 28 2015, 09:53 AM

Hello Gustl!


could this be due to this is one of the 5 "experimental" cars??

i could likely think so since the gearbox from what i know has never been replaced.


nerdy fun facts


Best regards,

Posted by: SirAndy May 28 2015, 10:28 AM

Yes, it's the same as any VW Beetle Sport-o-Matic.

You have a stick shift lever but no clutch. You shift up/down by moving the lever forward/backward but there's an electrical contact at the lever base that sends a signal to the clutch/transmission to shift.


It's fun to drive and especially amusing at stoplights because:

- You can hold the lever in position and basically "drop the clutch" when the light turns green.

- You can press the brake and gas at the same time and release the brake at green to get a headstart.

The above is especially fun in a ratty old 50HP Beetle when sitting next to a nice sports car at a light. Not that i would ever do such a thing ...

Posted by: Johny Blackstain May 28 2015, 11:07 AM

Thanks Andy. Is it like speed shifting (letting off of the gas to switch gears)?

Posted by: Niklas May 28 2015, 11:30 AM

I have looked at the car today.

Posted by: SirAndy May 28 2015, 11:59 AM

You don't actually have to let off the gas but i always do, mostly out of habit.

Posted by: SirAndy May 28 2015, 11:59 AM

And?

Posted by: Niklas May 28 2015, 12:28 PM

Rusty! Very rusty.

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 28 2015, 04:42 PM

But VW called it something else. "Automatic stick"? Ah, Mr. Google says "Autostick". I think that was the badge I saw on that one Bug a few years ago.

--DD

Posted by: Gustl May 28 2015, 10:27 PM

well, the early Porsche letter says 5 experimental cars, the later one says 3 ...
no matter what's correct, the experimental cars had early numbers, your VIN as well as your tranny number are quite late - so not very likely

in addition, the tranny number hammered in on the center seam is a very clear evidence for a factory replacement transmission

the originally "1st in" trannsmissions had the number stamped in this little platform, like on my photo

here is another example for a 1971 914-6 Sportomatic replacement tranny (factory warrenty exchange in September 1973 @ a little more than 61,000 km)

Posted by: SirAndy May 28 2015, 10:32 PM

Halbautomatic
http://www.kaeferclub-siegerland.de/technik/automatic.htm

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 28 2015, 11:42 PM

Perhaps auf Deutsch, but I remember seeing a Bug with the "Autostick" badge on the back here in the US.

--DD

Posted by: Gustl May 29 2015, 01:14 AM

what I forgot to mention:
your car is a mid-season 1971 car, that was 1st street registered in March 1971
so, there would have been very little time to do all the experimental stuff

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 29 2015, 07:09 AM

Hopefully the seller has the dealership paperwork to support the replacement transaxle. Would that return the car to essentially matching numbers?

Posted by: Kansas 914 May 29 2015, 07:38 AM

Posted by: Niklas May 29 2015, 07:44 AM

No he have not.

Posted by: rgalla9146 May 29 2015, 08:59 AM

I never drove a Sporto 6 but I did drive a few early 911 Sportos'
At least 2 early '70s Ts' and one E
They were interesting.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 29 2015, 09:18 AM

So what we now know about this 914/6 is that it is rusty, very rusty (photos?), its original engine/transaxle were replacements (not numbers matching), it is in boxes, and we have no real way of knowing if all parts are included to make this a complete, restorable project as is. Is that a fair summary assessment?

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 29 2015, 09:47 AM

OOOPPPS, I missed the part about then engine not being the original one.

Posted by: Gustl May 29 2015, 10:31 AM

this is often the case, when someone changed the original engine to a similar 911 engine
the engine might have a number, but the 911 engines had their number on a completely different place - because you must can see the number, when opening the engine lid ...

see this thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=527620

Posted by: Hank914 May 29 2015, 11:00 AM

Almost. I think you are forgetting the part about the obscure tranny. Something about a Sport-o-mastic or something.

Posted by: Chris914n6 May 29 2015, 02:29 PM

I've been on this forum long enough to know that one man's "rusty parts car" is another man's "hardly anything - fix it".

Pics. Pics. And more Pics Please.

Posted by: SixerJ May 29 2015, 02:46 PM

Everything is restorable just depends on if the base price is right and how much someone is prepared to sink into it. Value at the end is going to be based on condition and originally and what someone is prepared to pay for it not what you have spent

Personally I bought all my cars because I love them, the fact that (some) have risen in value is a bonus. Hopefully this car will go to someone who wants it for what it is rather than just chasing a buck

Rusty or not I would love to own this car

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 29 2015, 03:47 PM

Me too!

Posted by: Gustl Jun 4 2015, 12:09 AM

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Jun 4 2015, 07:27 AM

An old GF had one and I had a hard time getting used to driving it, as I have a habit of resting my hand on the shift lever, which was like pushing in the clutch.

IIRC it did have an "Autostick" badge on the engine lid

Posted by: Chris H. Jun 4 2015, 08:32 AM

Yeah was there a sensor in the knob itself on VWs or was the system just so sensitive that it couldn't have any pressure on it at all? Weird that you couldn't touch the shifter EVER unless you were shifting. Fun when you got the hang of it though.

Posted by: Kansas 914 Jun 4 2015, 08:39 AM

Posted by: JmuRiz Jun 4 2015, 09:10 AM

Yep, Peter Gregg had one in his custom 911S daily driver to train himself to keep his hands off the shifter.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jun 4 2015, 09:58 AM

A sporto is like a semi auto bug tranny? really?
Those things were a 2 speed total POS and you couldn't add any HP to the engine.

The T3 box was at least a 3 speed (Borg/Warner IIRC) and you could get away with hopping up the engine a bit.

I've converted a few semi-autos to manual and tossed the auto in the scrap heap.

Posted by: Gustl Jun 4 2015, 10:50 AM

the Sportomatic is a 4 speed transmission

read all the details here: http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/zBro_70B4.pdf

Posted by: GregAmy Jun 4 2015, 12:35 PM

"The Sportomatic: It make driving slowly more pleasant -- because you want a sports car but you never learned how to drive a manual transmission."

But it's apparently rare*, so someone will be willing to pay silly money for it.

GA, reading this topic with interest, just waiting for someone to ask the seller to post a photograph of himself holding up a posterboard with the words "I'm a little teapot short and stout; here is my handle, here is my spout"...

*No one seems to be willing to ask "if it's so cool then WHY is it so rare...?"

Posted by: Niklas Jun 10 2015, 12:40 AM

Sold to Holland.

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jun 10 2015, 02:04 AM

Congrats to the seller on the "Local" sale
Maybe the new owner will post up their reconstruction here ?

Posted by: thieuster Jun 10 2015, 07:36 AM

Tell me: to an address I mentioned? I'm curious!

Menno

Posted by: Kaeferfreund Jun 10 2015, 01:40 PM

Did the seller (Oliver?) get his last asking price? (I remember something nearby 400.000 SEK or 43k EUR).
Sold to Holland ...then we will get some new advertisements shortterm with an outrageous high price. I would estimate a Dutch price of 65k EUR at a minimum for that puzzle then
Or they will stick it together and ask around 100k EUR

We got such an example in spring. Buying an overpriced car and offering with a 44% premium e.g. four weeks later. Unbelievable.