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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Keep your CVs on where they belong

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 22 2005, 01:01 AM

Would anyone be interested in having CV bolts with a regular allen head and the ability to be safety wired? So far everyone that I have mentioned this to has been positive about wanting a set for their car. What brought this about was the rash of CV separations due to bolts coming out last year or so. Many times I have also found loose bolts on cars that I have worked on just to tighten them and have them loosen up again. Having worked in the aviation industry, I am very versed and believe in safety wiring. This would be a solution to two major problems with the current set up:
-Loosening CV bolts
-Having to buy that damn tripple square tool

Prices to come when interest is expressed.

(My camera sucks )

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Posted by: McMark Feb 22 2005, 01:06 AM

Sounds good. What about strength ratings? I thought the stock CV bolts stretched during install.

I'm not adverse to the stock CV bolt tool, but then again I own one, so it's not a problem.

Posted by: JB 914 Feb 22 2005, 01:20 AM

i'm interested. mine were loose when i dropped my 4 a few months ago

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 22 2005, 01:21 AM

I own one of the install tools also, but making things as universal as possible is much more intellegent IMHO. the strangth rating is the same if not greater. The ones now offered as replacements are stainless and shouldn't stretch for all I know. I brought the originals to a vendor and had him match the hardness for me. 8.8 if I am not mistaken. I like the safety wire thing b etter than stretch. I guess this would have the third bennefit of being reusable as well.

Oh ya, the holes in the bolts are for .041 stainless safety wire. Very thick and durable.

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 22 2005, 01:37 AM

I think that it would be best to sell these in lots. I don't feel like getting them contiguously. Rather, I would like to do groups. So, I think that I will end the first group at 10pm PST on Sun the 27th. Those who post interest first will get the first sets until all of the first orders are filled. Then I will do a second buy, etc.

Sound good?

I am gonna offer a set of 8 for $16. This will do your tranny side CVs, but for the outer drive sides you will need another 8.

Posted by: synthesisdv Feb 22 2005, 07:11 AM

drilled.......

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Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 22 2005, 07:37 AM

QUOTE
...I brought the originals to a vendor and had him match the hardness for me. 8.8 if I am not mistaken.

Oh ya, the holes in the bolts are for .041 stainless safety wire....

0.041" !?! you're not trying to secure a prop... 0.032" will be fine and much easier to work. for a 4,3mKg torque fastener, 0.025" would be just fine, but i use 0.032.

BTW - those are 12,9 fasteners. if you're getting 12,9 in stainless, i'm in for a few sets, especially if you can get them in 10mm.

i would not use an 8,8 in this application.

Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 22 2005, 08:16 AM

i had been thinking along the same lines. sourcing the bolts and correct washers to sell in a package. one parts house gets $3.95 each for the stock bolts . i image sourcing the proper washers is a pain for some members too. is the safety wire all that nessasary?

k

Posted by: skline Feb 22 2005, 08:20 AM

Im in for a set Mike

Posted by: Joe Sharp Feb 22 2005, 08:32 AM

Hi Mike. I'll need a few, maybe 10 sets.
Joe

Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 22 2005, 08:43 AM

I doubt if our cars would get rusty

But almost everytime I've come across allen head bolts on a bus/bug, they strip out the head when you try to remove them.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 22 2005, 08:45 AM

QUOTE (Mark Henry @ Feb 22 2005, 09:43 AM)
almost everytime I've come accross allen head bolts on a bus/bug, they strip out the head when you try to remove them.

yet another reason you need a 12,9 fastener in this application ...

Posted by: itsa914 Feb 22 2005, 08:59 AM

I'm interested in a set of 8 please.

Posted by: drew365 Feb 22 2005, 09:23 AM

I'll take a set.

Posted by: ! Feb 22 2005, 09:32 AM

I made my own....for Wyld Thang....I'll take a set for Manfred....dulled to many drills the first time.

Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 22 2005, 09:35 AM

why 8? do you mean sets?

k

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 22 2005, 09:42 AM

Good morning fellas! ArtechniKA, they are 12,9. I verified that after posting last night.

rhodyguy, 8 bolts in a set. 4/ side to attach the CV to the tranny flanges.

synthesisdv, that was what I had in mind when making these.

Joe Sharp, Are you serious? Wow.

I can get the wave washers if you all are interested, too.

Posted by: dmenche914 Feb 22 2005, 09:43 AM

I think the allen head bolt heads strip eaisier than the torx head, that is assuming the tool is fully seated. How about saftey wire ont he torx head bolt rather than allen?

Posted by: itsa914 Feb 22 2005, 09:45 AM

washers to please, might as well go for the whole thing.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 22 2005, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (dmenche914 @ Feb 22 2005, 10:43 AM)
I think the allen head bolt heads strip eaisier than the torx head, that is assuming the tool is fully seated. How about saftey wire ont he torx head bolt rather than allen?

just to avoid any confusion - these are never Torx...

they're either triple-square 12-point internal wrenching heads, or they're Allen (InHex) heads...

Posted by: ! Feb 22 2005, 09:54 AM

Just curious...why go with an internal style fastener....is converting to an external hex head a bad thing?

Posted by: synthesisdv Feb 22 2005, 10:02 AM

QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Feb 22 2005, 10:42 AM)
synthesisdv, that was what I had in mind when making these.

better buy stock in the drill bit company, I broke about 3 new carbide bits just drilling these 8 bolts, and these are only 8.8 (i think, they are porsche parts)

I'll bet its even more difficult drilling 12.9 hardness.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 22 2005, 10:11 AM

QUOTE (synthesisdv @ Feb 22 2005, 11:02 AM)
I'll bet its even more difficult drilling 12.9 hardness.

it gets worse -- ever worked with stainless? the stuff work-hardens. if the bit skips even a little it becomes a real b!tch to recover. you almost need a full setup with a coolant/cutting oil pump.

i've had no problem drilling the OEM capscrews (tip: touch the side of the head with a grinding point in a Dremel tool to cut the surface hardening...) but i prefer to avoid working stainless when i can.

Mike - you *can* use an external wrenching fastener but there isn't a lot of room for a socket, and you have to look harder for proper strength bolts. there's an issue with bearing surface under the Schnorr washer too, i think ...

Posted by: soloracer Feb 22 2005, 10:58 AM

I'm in for two sets.

Posted by: Engman Feb 22 2005, 11:40 AM

I want a set but I will wait - These are gonna be tough to drill unless you have a super secret way of doing them. Great price - but watch your bit to bolt ratio......

M

Posted by: iamchappy Feb 22 2005, 02:16 PM

Could they be waterjet or lasered

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Feb 22 2005, 02:28 PM

............ and they don't use "wavy" washers, either. The Cap'n

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 22 2005, 09:51 PM

A note, the new bolts are 50mm instead of 45mm like stock, but I checked them out and they are perfectly fine.

I wouldn't think that one would need the wavy washer if they were using safety wire. A regular flat washer would do just fine, but if anyone still wants some I can get them for $.15/ea. I am not sure if that is a good price or not for the galvanized wave washers, but they are what they are.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 23 2005, 08:40 AM

okay, Doc - this is what i want. let me know if it is not what you are able to supply:

1 shipset (16) M10 x 50mm grade 12,9 stainless (advise alloy) Allen capscrews,
each head drilled 1/16" for 0.032" safety wire, deburred.

1 shipset (16) M10 Schnorr washers.

you are shipping to 19438; advise total.

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 23 2005, 12:28 PM

ArtechnikA,
I am currently only doing the 8mm 12.9 stuff. I'll see if I can do that for you, but my vendor alerted me today that there is a shortage of metric hardware currently as China is buying all of it up. I am having fun sourcing the bolts for the first order. You only want 16, though, so it should not be too hard. I am not sure of the prices...I'll get back to you.

What method do you recommend for deburring? What is a Schnorr washer?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 23 2005, 12:50 PM

QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Feb 23 2005, 01:28 PM)
...there is a shortage of metric hardware currently as China is buying all of it up.

What method do you recommend for deburring? What is a Schnorr washer?

interesting - China used to be where a lot of the metric hardware *came* from :-) ...

i'd think a touch with a carbide countersink would take the sharp edge off the hole. when i've done mine i just use the tip of a tree-pointed grinding burr in a Dremel tool and poke it gently in the hole.

a Schnorr washer is the name for the proper CV-bolt lockwasher. has a slight conical taper to it like a Belleville washer, and many log-spiral grooves. a la 999.523.102.02 which is the M8 914 CV lockwasher. (the M10 version is 999.523.103.01)

if you can pull this off i'll be glad to spread the word on the Rennlist 911 and Racing lists...
911 calls for two M10 lengths - 48mm like my car uses (50mm will fit fine) and 55mm. i can't tell from the ETKA the application for the longer CV. it could be a Sportomatic thing, it could be a 911S thing, it could be a later-year update thing. but i measured mine this morning and 50mm is what i need...

Posted by: jwalters Feb 23 2005, 04:37 PM

Hey Evil--how is it hangin there bud?? Looks like your havin a good time in your pic//////Schnorr washers are used on the falcons I work on--very hard to describe w/o a pic--also very expensive--but this is a jet so things are more $$$$

When everybody was having trouble--just curious here, were they using the ground wave lock washers which are supposed to be there??? I have never had a problem with them loosening up with these--but I have seen many cars w/o them with loose bolts...just wondering..J

Posted by: synthesisdv Feb 23 2005, 04:50 PM

QUOTE (jwalters @ Feb 23 2005, 05:37 PM)
very hard to describe w/o a pic--also very expensive--but this is a jet so things are more $$$$

here ya go.....

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Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 23 2005, 04:52 PM

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=6695&hl=schnorr three posts down in this thread; everything you'd need to know...

if it's worth knowing, it's probably been discussed here before :-)

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 25 2005, 02:06 AM

Still taking orders!

Posted by: Type 4 Feb 25 2005, 03:49 AM

8-45mm

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Posted by: Eric_Shea Feb 25 2005, 09:50 AM

2 sets for me...

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 25 2005, 08:44 PM

Type 4,
yikes, what are those for? Those don't look like 8mm bolts.

Posted by: redshift Feb 25 2005, 08:49 PM

Whoa Steve! Those things look nutty!

M

Posted by: Dr Evil Mar 3 2005, 01:32 AM

Picked up the bolts today to fill the first orders. I'll be contacting ya'll soon looking for da money.
Thanks!

Posted by: neo914-6 Mar 3 2005, 02:23 AM

2 sets for me...

Posted by: Dr Evil Mar 4 2005, 12:10 AM

Sorry Felix,
You'll have to post in the next offer when I can get some more. I cleaned the supplier out and they just had enough for the folks who ordered by the dealine. I'll let you know if I can scrounge an extra set.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 4 2005, 09:48 AM

QUOTE
I cleaned the supplier out and they just had enough for the folks who ordered by the dealine.

Did I miss something, like a "deadline" or a "contacting ya'll soon looking for da money"?

My post is about two down from the "Still taking orders" post...

Let me know...

Posted by: neo914-6 Mar 4 2005, 04:03 PM

Sorry, didn't see the Feb 27th deadline. How about selling me 20 crush washers?

Posted by: Dr Evil Mar 4 2005, 05:07 PM

Eric,
On pg 1 I posted
QUOTE
So, I think that I will end the first group at 10pm PST on Sun the 27th

That is what I am talking about. You put your request in on the 25th so you are in the first batch. When I get them made up this weekend I will solicit all of you for $$$. I don't want to ask for cash until I have product in hand and finished. Until then, I will foot the bill for the pieces.

Sorry if I confused you.

Posted by: Gint Mar 4 2005, 08:36 PM

When's the next batch comin? I'll gaurantee purchase of 2 sets.

Posted by: Dr Evil Mar 4 2005, 08:48 PM

As soon as I get these out I will see when I can get another batch. I could take orders now, but I have no idea when they will be available. The main problem I have is that if it takes too long to get the bolts then some folks may change their mind thus leaving me with bolts and a proffit loss. I think that I will do the next one with in two weeks of filling this one. So far, though, I only seem to need to find 5 more sets. If I can I will.

Posted by: LvSteveH Mar 4 2005, 08:52 PM

I'm in for FOUR sets (32 bolts) in the second batch, just let me know when to send the $, no hurry. Thanks

Posted by: Dr Evil Mar 4 2005, 09:00 PM

Will do, but actually 1 set is 8 bolts, so you will be needing 4 sets. All prices are in the first part of this thread with all of the other information that you may need. Any more questions, just ask

Posted by: LvSteveH Mar 4 2005, 09:08 PM

Thank for confirming, I saw the pricing and knew it would be $64 (assuming your costs don’t change) I did edit my post though! I hope you have a drill doctor bit sharpener, that's got to be tearing them up.... thanks

Posted by: drew365 Mar 4 2005, 09:25 PM

Let me know when they are ready, this is good timing for me as my engine will be ready to go back in in about a week or so. Good luck.

Posted by: gregrobbins Mar 4 2005, 09:43 PM

Two sets with washers please.

Thanks, Greg

Posted by: bernbomb914 Mar 5 2005, 01:42 AM

I would like 2 sets also with all the goodies

Bernie