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Posted by: DirtyCossack Jun 30 2015, 09:05 PM

I've concluded that I need to replace significant portions of the lower wheelhouse, inner long, and the suspension console. I've spent the day researching and reading the classic threads and like many of the rack-like assemblies my predecessors have built. Let's hear some easy but still effective ways to get this thing off the ground and straight enough for structural repairs.

I really like the one for "Bringing out your Dead" but can't quite figure out the points it's mounted.

After bracing the doors, can I use the front jack points, a long support along the floors, the outer suspension console, and the trans mount area?

I ready for some ideas. I'm trying to develop as many COAs (Courses of Action) as possible. Thanks.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jun 30 2015, 09:32 PM

I would build a rolling cart. A rotisserie may make the body sag during cutting and welding. Use the 4 donuts on the underside of the body to mount the tub.

Posted by: madmax914 Jul 1 2015, 12:14 AM

Check out Restoration Design's Youtube page, they have a do-it-yourself rotisserie that seems pretty basic.

www.restoration-design.com

https://youtu.be/T0a4xq91jgs

Posted by: mbseto Jul 1 2015, 05:50 AM

Just finished working through that same decision myself. I ended up building a dolly. After reading through a ton of rustoration threads and looking over their approaches and the discussions on whether the bracing was adequate, I came to Mike's conclusion that if you want it to be straight, it's going to need to be not just well-braced but also level while you're welding.

That in mind, I welded up a dolly. This gives me a level and square reference. Then I fabricated brackets to mount to the suspension mounts. My donuts are not (yet) fit for this. I've got door braces to adjust, but there is also the top rail of the dolly that I can use as a straight reference and shim against if there is sagging in the longs.

And if push comes to shove, I can still make a rotisserie. But for now, I think a rotisserie will be best for painting. I'm planning to have a pro do that and hope they will have something.

Posted by: DirtyCossack Jul 1 2015, 11:36 AM

I'm looking for a good dolly design. You have any pictures and plans for that dolly?

Posted by: DirtyCossack Jul 1 2015, 08:32 PM

The wife gave me a go ahead to buy a rotisserie with the money I made selling my Beetle, but I'm still on the fence. For 1, I don't want/need to completely strip the car; and 2, my last move seriously downgraded my garage size. So after I spent another day researching, I have 3 questions:

1. How much space from the bumper to the to the end of the rotisserie? My new garage has a curb separating the parking area from a storage/work area. Centered, there's about 1.5ft from the bumper to garage door and the same from the other bumper to the curb. Is this enough?

2. If I instead opt for a jig/dolly, can I use the outer suspension console as a mount point?

3. If the donut/jackpoint is one of the cut out areas, where should I brace in the middle-rear?

Thanks

Posted by: mepstein Jul 1 2015, 08:40 PM

Posted by: infraredcalvin Jul 1 2015, 11:30 PM

The 1.5 feet extra in front and back (if I understand correctly) should work, barely. You can build the rotisserie so it mounts closer to the car. I made this with no prior welding experience. I bought "the welders handbook" and my wife got me a 220v mig welder from Eastwood one Christmas. I went to a metal supply with the parts list from:
http://www.blueskymotorsports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=6

I had to make a few adjustments based on material availability, but after about $300 in steel and an afternoons work cutting and welding I have this:



You're going to have to learn/practice welding anyway, thick material is the place to start. I have a 2nd 914 tub to work on now, I was thinking of building a dolly so I have one of each.

One thing to think about is how you're going to get it up in the rotisserie. I have a lift, so I have no need for attachments to raise or lower the car. I work on my cars alone so everything I do must be accomplished with one set of hands, a pain something's, but it is my retreat/my alone time.

Posted by: mr914 Jul 2 2015, 12:29 AM

Either way, door jamb braces are THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY!

Hinge hole to door latch, minimum. Better is both hinge mounts to latch mount and upper seat belt mount, with cross bracing.. Build a turnbuckle in for readjustment and that is even better...

My rotiserie was made of 2" thin and thick wall tubing for easy brake down and transporting.. Other was 1" square tubing and 1/4" plate. other parts by TSC/harbor freight. 6' come along was the only challenge, eithe mcmaster Carr or grainger

I can send/post more details


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: mr914 Jul 2 2015, 12:32 AM

Bracing photo. Strut and pressure plate used for counter ballance to help from spinning too easily




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 2 2015, 05:35 AM

Build a rotisserie.
You will remove the bumpers and attach the rotisserie arms to the bumper mounting points. If your car is a 75/76 this is super easy. You just mount it directly to the bumper shocks.


Mine did not stick out much further then the bumpers and would fit in your garages.


My car is a 76, so I just bolted it directly to the bumper shocks. Pretty easy.

Mine was also built using 2 harbor freight engine stands. They were cheaper then I could buy the steel. I just cut them up and welded more to make it work.

I tried to talk myself out of making the rotisserie, but after I had the car up, I frankly could not see how anyone restored a car without one.

Added bonus: sold it for a small profit after the car was back on the ground again.

Zach

Posted by: saigon71 Jul 2 2015, 06:38 AM

If you can find a way to fit a rotisserie in your garage - do it...it will make the restoration much more manageable.

I had space constraints too. After installing body braces, I cut lengths of 2 X 4 and screwed them together with drywall screws. One side at a time, I held the car up with boards & jackstands to make repairs. It wasn't fun or efficient...but it did work.

Posted by: mbseto Jul 2 2015, 06:51 AM

Wow, is that $300 for just what's shown in the pic there? That seem pricey.

Posted by: Amenson Jul 2 2015, 06:51 AM

If anybody is in the Columbus area I found this on Craigslist.

http://columbus.craigslist.org/tls/5080208446.html





Somebody please buy it so that I can't!

Cheers.
Scott

Posted by: stugray Jul 2 2015, 08:35 AM

One comment: DO NOT leave that stand with the center horizontal support out! (the one that connects the two stands)
If you move that stand as it is and some of the wheels get caught on something it could rip one of the stands off easily.

Posted by: DirtyCossack Jul 2 2015, 10:21 AM

Thanks for the replies. I'm really leaning towards the rotisserie especially since I know this won't be my last project. The idea of not laying on the floor working in a cramped space over my head sounds wonderful.

I also figure that since there is an extra 6ft of space in my garage on top of the curb, I could always build a wooden platform to make the one end an equal height to the curb end.

Now I'm on the fence about building or buying. I really like that the premade ones have a better chance of being square than what I build, they have built in jacks to raise and lower, and the one I'm looking at has a locking mechanism in the spinner. On the DIY side, I really like that the money saved would buy the body panels I need from RD.

Posted by: stugray Jul 2 2015, 11:07 AM

Buy two engine stands from HF and you have 90% of the materials.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 2 2015, 11:14 AM

You need to build it.
Many of us learned to weld by building the rotisserie. Not to mention that it will cost you about 1/4 of a pre-fab unit.
Its an easy project, and is insanely useful.
Zach

Posted by: DirtyCossack Jul 6 2015, 05:29 PM

So the rotisserie is a GO, but it has brought up the next question: Bracing.

How much? I will definitely be bracing the doors, but is one per door enough? The longs under the doors are surprisingly good so will not be removed. Only passenger side needs cut and the predominance of the cutting is in the wheel house and engine compartment long. From the jack point to almost the outer suspension console is getting cut out; and on the inside, the inner long from bottom until the inner suspension console (including the console and long under it) is getting cut out. So what kind of bracing do I need to think of?

After reading Carey's thread, I'm sure I need a jig for the suspension console's fitment, so should I use the same jig to hold the rear in place or will just the door bracing be sufficient?

Posted by: cary Jul 7 2015, 06:04 AM

Next Time ................
https://www.jd2.com/p-94-dr-jig.aspx

We're going to rework my rotisserie. It will attach at the bumper and at the suspension points. Then we'll stack the floor pan jig on top of that.

Don't go cheezy on the door braces.

Posted by: jpnovak Jul 7 2015, 07:14 AM

Build a 914 version of this. I built one for my 911. About $200 in materials and fits inside a normal garage. a full rotisserie is too long for me. Easy to flip with one person and very stable.

Yes, make sure you brace the tub.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/530909-my-alternative-rotisserie.html

Posted by: mbseto Jul 7 2015, 07:15 AM

I've got two door braces on each side. One goes from the door latch to the lower hinge, the other goes from the upper seat belt boss to the upper hinge. Two door braces allows control over the door gaps at the top and at the bottom of the door. I think of it as being able to adjust distance AND rotation.

I've seen the experienced guys here recommend a square brace inside the tub in addition to the door braces. After watching my frame flexing just on the dolly, I would certainly do that before mounting on a rotisserie.

Posted by: DirtyCossack Jul 7 2015, 09:31 AM

This is the good kind of worrying that leads to better prep. But I'm worried about the ass end twisting or breaking off. There is definitely a brace being designed and built over the next week's time.

On the good news front, I found rust in the trunk, but after exploratory surgery I found that it was only surface with minor pitting. Also found my first bondo on the car, but cant figure out why it was there... the area is straight, it seems like they just wanted to smooth out those little divot areas where the license plate lights mount...

Posted by: DirtyCossack Jul 7 2015, 10:54 AM

Maybe we can make "the bracing, jig, body alignment, etc thread"

Posted by: VWTortuga336 Aug 6 2016, 08:40 AM

I know this is an old post, but

I'm debating on the best approach to take with my rust repairs as well (outer longs, he'll hole, and some small patches in both trunks) - leave the doors in and set the gap by jacking up the rear of the car, or door braces/rotisserie.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 6 2016, 09:12 AM

The young lad needs to build a rotisserie I like the Restoration Design 911 one, but how would you tie into the 914?
The engine stands at ends type takes up to much room.

On bracing, wouldn't you want to leave the door shells in to check gaps?

I don't think his car has front sway bar mounts so what would be a good alternative?

Although hopefully not near as involved as the one in the pic below, this is one of the repairs needed. So where would you tie into the rear?

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 6 2016, 09:20 AM

Found the rotisserie they made for the 914 and it's mount points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiGB_MHBbls

Posted by: budk Aug 6 2016, 09:33 AM

[/quote]
Found the rotisserie they made for the 914 and it's mount points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiGB_MHBbls

[/quote]

I used RD's design and their detail drawings to make mine. It works great but I have too much junk in my garage which makes getting around it a little difficult. If you use their drawings, be care with the rear mounts. They may have corrected it by now but the drawings I used had the rear mounts show 180 deg off of how they needed to be attached. Nothing a grinder and more welding couldn't fix.

Posted by: DirtyCossack Aug 8 2016, 09:11 AM

If I were doing my long repairs again, here's what I would do: build a frame jig that can be attached a removable cart/dolly, jack up the rear to set the gaps, remove doors and install braces that still allow the doors to be installed to continually check gaps, and constantly take your measurements.

Posted by: Red76 Feb 7 2018, 04:08 PM

Lots of different designs for rotisseries on here. Heres some pics of one I rescued from my buddies scrap pile. He built it to float his 39 Cadillac LaSalle. Not sure but it could probably float a school bus. I’m just about ready to take my tub airborne. Just have to finish welding the bracket for the back bumper

Posted by: Red76 Feb 7 2018, 04:16 PM

A couple more pics

Posted by: Dutchy4U Apr 25 2019, 05:13 PM

anyone who has been restoring chassis complete 914
I'm thinking about removing the complete harnas, should I and HOW ?

Posted by: billium01 Apr 25 2019, 08:03 PM

Not to poopoo RD's rotisserie idea but it looks like IMHO, it could use addition bracing to keep the chassis from twisting as it's rotated around. Especially so if the floor it's sitting on is uneven or it's construction is out of wack. Any thoughts on that?

Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 26 2019, 07:05 AM

I've accessed all the structural elements you reference on this dolly. Jeff Hail has this right. Strong, stable, level surface to work from. All dimensions are posted on his thread.

I've hard mounted at transmission mounts and the front crossmember.

In my case I'm replacing the inner wheelhouse without cutting the rear quarter panel for access. Because of this, I am not mounting to the rear suspension outer console but it is a key suspension point that needs to be properly located.

I'm very happy with this - it was well worth the time to build.

Posted by: gereed75 Apr 26 2019, 07:26 AM

I am about to build a similar chassis dolly but will be integrating it into my mid rise scissor lift.

My question - which material is straighter/stronger, square tube or C channel??

I think the C channel may be a bit more versatile as the heavier wall and flanges might provide more options to weld/ clamp to ?

Posted by: bbrock Apr 26 2019, 07:30 AM

I would. Basically, everything gets pulled into the main cabin of the car and the harness is removed from there. There are a number of threads with details so try a search. I think there is one in the classics forum which should make finding it easier. People complain about removing and installing the main harness but it is really pretty easy on a stripped chassis. For me, it was the last thing out and the first thing put back in.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Apr 26 2019, 07:33 AM

Square tube given same wall thickness.

I've been contemplating building mine up to also be a rotisserie once I get the structure stabilized. I'd rather weld the floorpan on in some position other than overhead.

Posted by: 914werke Apr 26 2019, 11:22 AM

Depending on YOUR repair (of if you plan on doing more than one) you may need both!

Posted by: David Billo Apr 26 2019, 01:27 PM

I agree. The RD rotisserie is great for a car that is structurally sound and has the doors braced, but it seems too flexible for fixing the longs where you have to cut out too many parts that keep the car rigid.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 26 2019, 01:49 PM

I would never put a 914 on a rotisserie to fix the longs. We do it all the time for 911 coupes (with bracing) because they have built in support with the roof. It’s very easy to find a used industrial metal table. Check craigslist. Lay the chassis on the table and it will help keep the chassis straight vs a rotisserie that is trying to bend it and letting it twist as soon as you start cutting the long.

Posted by: mlindner Apr 26 2019, 02:08 PM

Build a dolly, as high as you want. Mine I even use on my scissor lift. Best, Mark

Posted by: Stuckon914 Feb 28 2020, 05:35 PM

Old thread but still valid topic. How far off the ground does the 914 frame need to be to freely spin?
I am hanging my rotisserie from a car lift and end to know how to cut.

Posted by: 914forme Feb 28 2020, 06:09 PM

half the width of the widest point on the chassis, plus the amount to clear the highest point on the rotisserie or floor which ever comes first.. Each one is different.

Posted by: Stuckon914 Feb 28 2020, 06:52 PM

Do you remember about what height yours was?

Posted by: VaccaRabite Feb 28 2020, 07:01 PM

Having built one, here is my advice:

1) Don't ask others what their height was. That is irrelevant.
Measure what you need yours to be.
2) This is a SIMPLE project - don't overthink it.

It SUCKS building one 10 inches too tall, and it sucks more building one .001 inches too short.

Since you are building it, you know where your mid point will be. You know where your braces and cross bar are. From those points you know how high you need to build it to make it spin freely.

The nice thing about working with metal is that if you make it too tall, you can cut and reweld and its just not an issue. Build the arms first so you know where the mid-point is.

Zach

Posted by: 914forme Feb 29 2020, 09:22 PM

And that is why I built mine to be adjustable,

Posted by: GaroldShaffer Feb 29 2020, 10:01 PM

And it is a vey nice one!




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Posted by: Stuckon914 Mar 1 2020, 06:20 PM

Nice design.

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 1 2020, 06:51 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=865
hijack,,, looks loowww....secrect ?? OH, Its a Subaroo mount
914forme


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Posted by: 914forme Mar 1 2020, 06:52 PM

Thank you, and I miss it, but letting it go to a new home will keep me from getting in to deep with my -6. If I need another one, I know how to build it.

Posted by: 914forme Mar 1 2020, 07:00 PM

Nope just high enough to keep a really low boxer engine in the right place. It was all about keeping heavy really low.

That was the shell from my old EG33 build. Engine mounts I had planned to weld a steel plate to the bottom of the engine mount if I thought I need one, I planned on running an AL pan, and had lost one once when my wife drove a Jetta over an man hole cover, on a road they had scarped to resurface. The hit split the pan, but luckily just opened it up enough it would weep. That was one expensive rescue dog. Luckily he is a great dog.

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 2 2020, 10:18 AM

I just read your build thread..subi mount

Posted by: nathanxnathan Mar 3 2020, 05:49 PM

I saw this one on Pinterest, and it really inspired me.

It seems so simple, the way it solves the issue of raising and lowering the car, like it was built by druids.

I've always wanted to build in the ability to raise the car off the ground with suspension and wheels on, and to raise it up high enough to flip it and clear the windshield frame.

Posted by: PanelBilly Mar 3 2020, 06:20 PM

My Longs were in good shape, but if I knew better I would have braced the doors

Look how skinny I was! Lost 21 lbs since the heart attack, but I don't think I'll ever
be that small again

Posted by: 914forme Mar 3 2020, 06:24 PM

Interesting, only issue I see is that is all thread, it would take forever to raise and lower it. Your thread pitch will determine the speed. Also technically it is the wrong thread design for the job. jacks use a square cut gear for lifting and lowering. pitched thread is good for clamping. But hey it will work.

The one I built uses a welded nut on the end of the winch handles. You can stick a socket on the end of a drill, and it will be at the top, in a minute.

Posted by: nathanxnathan Mar 3 2020, 06:32 PM

Yeah acme thread would be better for sure