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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Solid State Relay Board
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 6 2015, 05:28 PM
Well, it’s been about a year since I finished my 914 restoration, you can read all about it
HERE.
Everything works perfect except for the electrical problems I’ve been having with the relay board. I spent lots of hours trouble shooting electrical issues with the fuel pump. It turs out that my relay board had some bad connections for the fuel pump relay. After searching this site I discovered that the relay board is truly the weakest link in the 914. I tried to remove the epoxy bedding underneath the board and resolder the connections. This worked for a while but the fuel pump would sometimes stop and kill the engine. I finally figured out that the contacts for the fuel pump relay to the board were causing the problem. This seems like a never ending problem. I could buy another 40 year old used board and have the same problems.
So, to make a long story short, I decided to design a new relay board from scratch. I replaced the original electromechanical relays with industrial solid state relays. They have the same connection labels as the stock relays: 85 & 86 for the coil and 30 & 87 for the switch. The relays are available at most electrical parts dealers like Mouser or Digi-Key if one ever needs to be replace. They also use a lot less power than the original 914 relays. Also, since they are solid state and don’t have any moving parts they will last a lot longer and are more reliable. I also replaced the old ceramic fuse with a modern ATC style fuse and added an LED that illuminates when the fuel pump has power. This is great for trouble shooting fuel pump issues. It comes on for a few seconds after the key is turned on and stays on when the engine is running. Also, I removed the connections and plug for the rear window defroster. I used wires soldered to the connectors eliminating all of the riveted connections. All connections are soldered. To make the board I CNC machined the board out of high density polyethylene plastic.
I built a few extra boards to offset some of the development costs. They are quite labor extensive to build so I don’t plan to mass produce them. PM me if you want one. I would like to get $500.00 each. That includes the board with the solid stare relays. It does not include the voltage regulator. I used a solid state one from Pelican Parts. Both the stock and solid state voltage regulators will work.
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Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 6 2015, 05:35 PM
Wow...
Posted by: steuspeed Jul 6 2015, 05:44 PM
Posted by: SirAndy Jul 6 2015, 05:47 PM
Very nice!
Just a FYI, i was able to buy a brand new relay board from Porsche not too long ago.
Posted by: jim_hoyland Jul 6 2015, 05:59 PM
Thanks for posting; I saw your car at the PCA Concours in Dan Point and was impressed with your relay board.....very clean looking. Is this going to be a one-off or are your going to produce them ? Even a kit would be very cool 
Posted by: McMark Jul 6 2015, 06:00 PM
Really cool! 
What's the back look like? Did you make the pins as well? I'm working on a similar project, but will be severely modifying the layout to better suit my car.
Posted by: Harpo Jul 6 2015, 06:04 PM
Very impressive. You have some skills there.
David
Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 6 2015, 06:09 PM
I like it!
I'm running solid state relays on my car too. They work great and trigger as low as 3VDC.
Posted by: Mblizzard Jul 6 2015, 07:08 PM
Holy crap that is cool!
Wish I had the cash as that is likely one of the best changes you could make in a 40 year electrical system.
Posted by: somd914 Jul 6 2015, 07:12 PM
Very nice work. Not in my budget right now, but perhaps in the future...
Posted by: saigon71 Jul 6 2015, 08:15 PM
Very impressive - nice work! 
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 7 2015, 06:55 AM
Really cool!
What's the back look like? Did you make the pins as well? I'm working on a similar project, but will be severely modifying the layout to better suit my car.
Thanks,
The back is filled with epoxy to seal in all of the wires. I found a supplier for the pins. Are you using solid state relays?
Posted by: 914Sixer Jul 7 2015, 08:47 AM
Am I missing it or is there no plug for the heated back window? Very upscale replacement.
Posted by: Mueller Jul 7 2015, 09:40 AM
Damn...that is a nice assembly....Tormach mill?
Posted by: thieuster Jul 7 2015, 09:47 AM
I take my hat off, sir! Amazing stuff!
Menno
Posted by: clapeza Jul 7 2015, 12:07 PM
Doesn't this belong in the Sandbox?
...because that is pure 914 porn!
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 7 2015, 07:47 PM
Am I missing it or is there no plug for the heated back window? Very upscale replacement.
There was only room on the board for 3 solid state relays - Power, Fuel Pump and Heater.
Also, my car doesn't have a heated back window.
Posted by: McMark Jul 7 2015, 10:26 PM
Really cool!
What's the back look like? Did you make the pins as well? I'm working on a similar project, but will be severely modifying the layout to better suit my car.
Thanks,
The back is filled with epoxy to seal in all of the wires. I found a supplier for the pins. Are you using solid state relays?
Wasn't planning on it. I'm a bit of a nut about emulating originality, so I'm debating between original round relays and more modern Bosch square relays. But I still totally appreciate the upgrade to solid state. If I could find a solid state that looked exactly like an original round relay, I'll buy 100 right now.
Posted by: Mueller Jul 7 2015, 10:51 PM
Really cool!
What's the back look like? Did you make the pins as well? I'm working on a similar project, but will be severely modifying the layout to better suit my car.
Thanks,
The back is filled with epoxy to seal in all of the wires. I found a supplier for the pins. Are you using solid state relays?
Wasn't planning on it. I'm a bit of a nut about emulating originality, so I'm debating between original round relays and more modern Bosch square relays. But I still totally appreciate the upgrade to solid state. If I could find a solid state that looked exactly like an original round relay, I'll buy 100 right now.
What is the diameter of the stock round units? There are mini-ISO relays that are ≈25mm square, maybe remove round covers and put these over? There are smaller ones but then you get into thru hole mount or surface mount assembly and your costs are really going to go up.
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jul 8 2015, 12:20 AM
+1
First Class product
Posted by: GregAmy Jul 8 2015, 06:22 AM
I'm gonna sound redundant but...that's some damned impressive work. Well done. Wish I had five Benjamins laying around just so I could display that in my engine compartment.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 8 2015, 06:56 AM
That is some very nice work there.
Posted by: 02loftsmoor Jul 8 2015, 08:49 AM
Well, it’s been about a year since I finished my 914 restoration, you can read all about it
HERE.
Everything works perfect except for the electrical problems I’ve been having with the relay board. I spent lots of hours trouble shooting electrical issues with the fuel pump. It turs out that my relay board had some bad connections for the fuel pump relay. After searching this site I discovered that the relay board is truly the weakest link in the 914. I tried to remove the epoxy bedding underneath the board and resolder the connections. This worked for a while but the fuel pump would sometimes stop and kill the engine. I finally figured out that the contacts for the fuel pump relay to the board were causing the problem. This seems like a never ending problem. I could buy another 40 year old used board and have the same problems.
So, to make a long story short, I decided to design a new relay board from scratch. I replaced the original electromechanical relays with industrial solid state relays. They have the same connection labels as the stock relays: 85 & 86 for the coil and 30 & 87 for the switch. The relays are available at most electrical parts dealers like Mouser or Digi-Key if one ever needs to be replace. They also use a lot less power than the original 914 relays. Also, since they are solid state and don’t have any moving parts they will last a lot longer and are more reliable. I also replaced the old ceramic fuse with a modern ATC style fuse and added an LED that illuminates when the fuel pump has power. This is great for trouble shooting fuel pump issues. It comes on for a few seconds after the key is turned on and stays on when the engine is running. Also, I removed the connections and plug for the rear window defroster. I used wires soldered to the connectors eliminating all of the riveted connections. All connections are soldered. To make the board I CNC machined the board out of high density polyethylene plastic.
I built a few extra boards to offset some of the development costs. They are quite labor extensive to build so I don’t plan to mass produce them. PM me if you want one. I would like to get $500.00 each. That includes the board with the solid stare relays. It does not include the voltage regulator. I used a solid state one from Pelican Parts. Both the stock and solid state voltage regulators will work.
Question for you Looks like they are. Are the Solid State Relays are serviceable ?? And is there a warranty?
Posted by: jfort Jul 8 2015, 09:26 AM
Very cool. Nice work. I assume it won't work on a six?
Posted by: Mueller Jul 8 2015, 01:35 PM
r
Question for you Looks like they are. Are the Solid State Relays are serviceable ?? And is there a warranty?
No affiliation with OP and hope not to step on ones toes....
SSRs are not serviceable, there are 0 moving parts inside, the plus to this is no mechanical wear or pitting. The downside is no way "activate" the relay without the power signal unless you use 12vdc jumpers which isn't difficult since you have a 12vdc power source (your battery)
Another downside is that while most of the time mechanical relays fail in the "off" position, SSRs have a tendency to fail in the "on" position when they fail which is not too often, we use and others use SSRs on million dollar equipment all the time so I really wouldn't worry about them failing (I wouldn't buy an SSR from some Chinese reseller like banggood for my car or equipment at home!) Stick with name brands and you should be fine, the SSRs should last as long as you own your vehicle.
Posted by: pete000 Jul 8 2015, 02:01 PM
Nice blend of modern technology !
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 8 2015, 04:01 PM
Well, it’s been about a year since I finished my 914 restoration, you can read all about it
HERE.
Everything works perfect except for the electrical problems I’ve been having with the relay board. I spent lots of hours trouble shooting electrical issues with the fuel pump. It turs out that my relay board had some bad connections for the fuel pump relay. After searching this site I discovered that the relay board is truly the weakest link in the 914. I tried to remove the epoxy bedding underneath the board and resolder the connections. This worked for a while but the fuel pump would sometimes stop and kill the engine. I finally figured out that the contacts for the fuel pump relay to the board were causing the problem. This seems like a never ending problem. I could buy another 40 year old used board and have the same problems.
So, to make a long story short, I decided to design a new relay board from scratch. I replaced the original electromechanical relays with industrial solid state relays. They have the same connection labels as the stock relays: 85 & 86 for the coil and 30 & 87 for the switch. The relays are available at most electrical parts dealers like Mouser or Digi-Key if one ever needs to be replace. They also use a lot less power than the original 914 relays. Also, since they are solid state and don’t have any moving parts they will last a lot longer and are more reliable. I also replaced the old ceramic fuse with a modern ATC style fuse and added an LED that illuminates when the fuel pump has power. This is great for trouble shooting fuel pump issues. It comes on for a few seconds after the key is turned on and stays on when the engine is running. Also, I removed the connections and plug for the rear window defroster. I used wires soldered to the connectors eliminating all of the riveted connections. All connections are soldered. To make the board I CNC machined the board out of high density polyethylene plastic.
I built a few extra boards to offset some of the development costs. They are quite labor extensive to build so I don’t plan to mass produce them. PM me if you want one. I would like to get $500.00 each. That includes the board with the solid stare relays. It does not include the voltage regulator. I used a solid state one from Pelican Parts. Both the stock and solid state voltage regulators will work.
Question for you Looks like they are. Are the Solid State Relays are serviceable ?? And is there a warranty?
Mueller is correct, these are not serviceable. Not many digital electrical components are. I'm not sure if the stock 914 ones are. However they are, on this board, easily replaceable. Also, these are not Chinese.
Posted by: dangerranger01 Jul 8 2015, 04:57 PM
I like this a lot. Did you do your own pcb, or how did you connect all the components together on the backside of the board?
Posted by: mr914 Jul 8 2015, 05:09 PM
Impressive, got to be in the hundreds of hours in development.
In 10 years of industrial experience, we had hundred of SSR in our industrial ovens and had less than 1/2% fail after 3-5 years of 80% duty cycle at 70% load rating.
In my opinion, those relays will last a very long time
As long as you don't dead short them....
Posted by: Geezer914 Jul 8 2015, 05:27 PM
That is a work of art worthy of being framed and hung on a wall!!!
Posted by: SirAndy Jul 8 2015, 05:36 PM
That would be awesome ..
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 8 2015, 05:40 PM
I like this a lot. Did you do your own pcb, or how did you connect all the components together on the backside of the board?
I used wires to make all of the connections. After it was all soldered and tested I filled the back with electrical epoxy potting compound like the original board.
Posted by: Mueller Jul 8 2015, 06:12 PM
Mueller is correct, these are not serviceable. Not many digital electrical components are. I'm not sure if the stock 914 ones are. However they are, on this board, easily replaceable. Also, these are not Chinese.
Hi Steve, my apologies if I made it sound like you are using Chinese components!
And thanks for not getting too upset with me replying to your thread!
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 8 2015, 06:31 PM
Mueller is correct, these are not serviceable. Not many digital electrical components are. I'm not sure if the stock 914 ones are. However they are, on this board, easily replaceable. Also, these are not Chinese.
Hi Steve, my apologies if I made it sound like you are using Chinese components!
And thanks for not getting too upset with me replying to your thread!
No problem. I never thought you were implying they are Chinese and you brought up a good point.
Posted by: jwc914 Jul 11 2015, 02:22 PM
This will go very well with my 160 amp alt kit. It is a single wire so no need for regulator. Does it come complete with all relays and does it have a cover? Can u give me a price shipped to san jose, ca 95124
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 11 2015, 05:17 PM
This will go very well with my 160 amp alt kit. It is a single wire so no need for regulator. Does it come complete with all relays and does it have a cover? Can u give me a price shipped to san jose, ca 95124
It comes with all of the relays and no cover. I'll pay for the shipping.
Steve
Posted by: 02loftsmoor Jul 11 2015, 11:01 PM
I would like to get with on the relay board. Wes
Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 12 2015, 07:12 AM
I wish you made one of those boards for the Sixes. I definitely would buy one.
Posted by: Kalani Jul 13 2015, 10:08 PM
Well, it’s been about a year since I finished my 914 restoration, you can read all about it
HERE.
Everything works perfect except for the electrical problems I’ve been having with the relay board. I spent lots of hours trouble shooting electrical issues with the fuel pump. It turs out that my relay board had some bad connections for the fuel pump relay. After searching this site I discovered that the relay board is truly the weakest link in the 914. I tried to remove the epoxy bedding underneath the board and resolder the connections. This worked for a while but the fuel pump would sometimes stop and kill the engine. I finally figured out that the contacts for the fuel pump relay to the board were causing the problem. This seems like a never ending problem. I could buy another 40 year old used board and have the same problems.
So, to make a long story short, I decided to design a new relay board from scratch. I replaced the original electromechanical relays with industrial solid state relays. They have the same connection labels as the stock relays: 85 & 86 for the coil and 30 & 87 for the switch. The relays are available at most electrical parts dealers like Mouser or Digi-Key if one ever needs to be replace. They also use a lot less power than the original 914 relays. Also, since they are solid state and don’t have any moving parts they will last a lot longer and are more reliable. I also replaced the old ceramic fuse with a modern ATC style fuse and added an LED that illuminates when the fuel pump has power. This is great for trouble shooting fuel pump issues. It comes on for a few seconds after the key is turned on and stays on when the engine is running. Also, I removed the connections and plug for the rear window defroster. I used wires soldered to the connectors eliminating all of the riveted connections. All connections are soldered. To make the board I CNC machined the board out of high density polyethylene plastic.
I built a few extra boards to offset some of the development costs. They are quite labor extensive to build so I don’t plan to mass produce them. PM me if you want one. I would like to get $500.00 each. That includes the board with the solid stare relays. It does not include the voltage regulator. I used a solid state one from Pelican Parts. Both the stock and solid state voltage regulators will work.
Posted by: Kalani Jul 13 2015, 10:10 PM
Hello Steve,
Do you have any left, and has the price point come down ?
I live in so cal so shipping should not be a big deal
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 13 2015, 11:18 PM
Hello Steve,
Do you have any left, and has the price point come down ?
I live in so cal so shipping should not be a big deal
Yep, I still have some left and, sorry, the price has not come down.
BTW, I'll pay for the shipping.
Steve
Posted by: Zimms Jul 15 2015, 10:09 AM
These are beautiful! Worth every cent. 
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 22 2015, 01:41 PM
Drooling over this, I have some observations and questions:
* This board would not work for 914s with a rear window defroster
* This board would not work for the 1972-only 914s that use pin 3 of the 12-pin connector for an oil temp sender circuit (to the dash gauge)
* Why the difference in the slotted/Phillips screws on the corners of each relay? Are those screws are ready power sources in the engine bay?
* Would you consider making a kit with just the base and parts list/instructions available?
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 22 2015, 06:37 PM
Drooling over this, I have some observations and questions:
* This board would not work for 914s with a rear window defroster
* This board would not work for the 1972-only 914s that use pin 3 of the 12-pin connector for an oil temp sender circuit (to the dash gauge)
* Why the difference in the slotted/Phillips screws on the corners of each relay? Are those screws are ready power sources in the engine bay?
* Would you consider making a kit with just the base and parts list/instructions available?
Hi Jeff,
* This board would not work for 914s with a rear window defroster .Yep, there was only enough room for 3 solid state relays. I read somewhere that only about 5% of 914 have a rear window defroster. Is this true?
* This board would not work for the 1972-only 914s that use pin 3 of the 12-pin connector for an oil temp sender circuit (to the dash gauge)
Good point. My car is a 1973 and I didn't notice that there is a difference. Are there any other differences between years for the relay boards?
* Why the difference in the slotted/Phillips screws on the corners of each relay? Are those screws are ready power sources in the engine bay? . No reason. one of the relays I got had different fasteners.
* Would you consider making a kit with just the base and parts list/instructions available?
Maybe in the future. Right now I am working on another project.
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 22 2015, 08:37 PM
Drooling over this, I have some observations and questions:
* This board would not work for 914s with a rear window defroster
* This board would not work for the 1972-only 914s that use pin 3 of the 12-pin connector for an oil temp sender circuit (to the dash gauge)
* Why the difference in the slotted/Phillips screws on the corners of each relay? Are those screws are ready power sources in the engine bay?
* Would you consider making a kit with just the base and parts list/instructions available?
Hi Jeff,
* This board would not work for 914s with a rear window defroster .Yep, there was only enough room for 3 solid state relays. I read somewhere that only about 5% of 914 have a rear window defroster. Is this true?
* This board would not work for the 1972-only 914s that use pin 3 of the 12-pin connector for an oil temp sender circuit (to the dash gauge)
Good point. My car is a 1973 and I didn't notice that there is a difference. Are there any other differenced between years for the relay boards?
* Why the difference in the slotted/Phillips screws on the corners of each relay? Are those screws are ready power sources in the engine bay? . No reason. one of the relays I got had different fasteners.
* Would you consider making a kit with just the base and parts list/instructions available?
Maybe in the future. Right now I am working on another project.
Your work is commendable Steve, I hope you can find a way to make these available to the masses. I understand that the 914 was one of the first if not the first vehicle to use a configured board like this and a modern replacement using current technology would be welcomed. If a kit was available, there are enough DIY types here that mounting the relays and wiring it up would be one way to minimize the investment. Maybe a group buy in quantity as well. Mark Whitesell may be interested in producing them with your assistance, especially if they can be molded or done in a production mode. "Mikey914"
The 914/4 boards were all the same, but the three harnesses that plug into them were different. The 1972-only ignition harness is the only one that uses pin 3 of the 12-pin, I don't recall if the chassis harnesses interface with the board differently, would need to research it. The /6 guys need their version just as much as the /4 guys do.
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 22 2015, 09:35 PM
Drooling over this, I have some observations and questions:
* This board would not work for 914s with a rear window defroster
* This board would not work for the 1972-only 914s that use pin 3 of the 12-pin connector for an oil temp sender circuit (to the dash gauge)
* Why the difference in the slotted/Phillips screws on the corners of each relay? Are those screws are ready power sources in the engine bay?
* Would you consider making a kit with just the base and parts list/instructions available?
Hi Jeff,
* This board would not work for 914s with a rear window defroster .Yep, there was only enough room for 3 solid state relays. I read somewhere that only about 5% of 914 have a rear window defroster. Is this true?
* This board would not work for the 1972-only 914s that use pin 3 of the 12-pin connector for an oil temp sender circuit (to the dash gauge)
Good point. My car is a 1973 and I didn't notice that there is a difference. Are there any other differenced between years for the relay boards?
* Why the difference in the slotted/Phillips screws on the corners of each relay? Are those screws are ready power sources in the engine bay? . No reason. one of the relays I got had different fasteners.
* Would you consider making a kit with just the base and parts list/instructions available?
Maybe in the future. Right now I am working on another project.
Your work is commendable Steve, I hope you can find a way to make these available to the masses. I understand that the 914 was one of the first if not the first vehicle to use a configured board like this and a modern replacement using current technology would be welcomed. If a kit was available, there are enough DIY types here that mounting the relays and wiring it up would be one way to minimize the investment. Maybe a group buy in quantity as well. Mark Whitesell may be interested in producing them with your assistance, especially if they can be molded or done in a production mode. "Mikey914"
The 914/4 boards were all the same, but the three harnesses that plug into them were different. The 1972-only ignition harness is the only one that uses pin 3 of the 12-pin, I don't recall if the chassis harnesses interface with the board differently, would need to research it. The /6 guys need their version just as much as the /4 guys do.
Thanks Jeff.
I already spoke to mark about these. Unfortunately, when I designed this board I was not thinking about mass producing them. I have a good day job. I really just planned to make one and a couple extra to sell to help pay for some of the tools I needed. The board itself is machined from plastic using a CNC mill that uses 10 different tools (end mills and drills) and takes 3 hours to machine. My mill does not have an automatic tool changer so I need to be near the mill for the 3 hours. Also, the relays are industrial quality that are used in robots and medical equipment so they're not cheep.
However, I think it could be redesigned to be machined on a CNC router with one tool and use automotive solid state relays. Right now I just have too much on my plate.
Posted by: jd74914 Jul 22 2015, 09:43 PM
However, I think it could be redesigned to be machined on a CNC router with one tool and use automotive solid state relays. Right now I just have too much on my plate.
Small hijack (the relay board is AWESOME BTW)...do you know of a source for automotive SSRs? Hella and Delphi are supposed to make some but I've never actually been able to find any to purchase.
Posted by: Steve_R Jul 22 2015, 09:58 PM
However, I think it could be redesigned to be machined on a CNC router with one tool and use automotive solid state relays. Right now I just have too much on my plate.
Small hijack (the relay board is AWESOME BTW)...do you know of a source for automotive SSRs? Hella and Delphi are supposed to make some but I've never actually been able to find any to purchase.
Rallylights sells one:
http://www.rallylights.com/hella-hl87251-mini-solid-state-relay-12v-20a.html
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Posted by: Strudelwagon Apr 7 2016, 10:50 PM
we use these at work...
Posted by: cegallegos99 Apr 17 2016, 09:45 PM
Any good relay boards for sale?
I am asking since driving around the neighborhood for 15 mins then smell old glue smoke. Not sure if the relay board as also, feel less power after the smell.
History behind it is a local Porsche mechanic re-started the engine by tinkering with the relay board and finally unplugging one of the relays (the bottom left hand).
Don't know much about the electronics but need some assistance if need a new relay board.
Any guidance?
Posted by: RoadGlue Apr 18 2016, 04:45 PM
Any good relay boards for sale?
I am asking since driving around the neighborhood for 15 mins then smell old glue smoke. Not sure if the relay board as also, feel less power after the smell.
History behind it is a local Porsche mechanic re-started the engine by tinkering with the relay board and finally unplugging one of the relays (the bottom left hand).
Don't know much about the electronics but need some assistance if need a new relay board.
Any guidance?
Sorry to hear about the problems with your car.
I recommend starting a new post though in the garage. This thread is specifically regarding the relay boards that the original poster created.
Cheers,
Posted by: N_Jay Sep 21 2016, 07:06 AM
Wasn't planning on it. I'm a bit of a nut about emulating originality, so I'm debating between original round relays and more modern Bosch square relays. But I still totally appreciate the upgrade to solid state. If I could find a solid state that looked exactly like an original round relay, I'll buy 100 right now.
Hella makes one as long as the original relay is triggered by a ground connection (The SS relay does not use the + side of the coil connection and needs a Gnd on the low side of the coil.
http://hellahd.com/index.php/default/electrics/relays/mini-iso-relays/12v-spst/h41773001-931773987/
Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 21 2016, 07:12 AM
Man, do I wish Steve would make these for a Six......
Posted by: N_Jay Sep 21 2016, 07:24 AM
So close, but so far.
I certainly understand why it is a $500 part, but it is hard to justify at that price.
Maybe someone else here could pick up the project.
We are all (most all) tinkers, so all we probably need is a kit with the board cut/molded and the hard to source parts. (Probably just the pins, since automotive relays use regular 1/4 blade connectors.
As an EE I offer my (limited) skills, as this is mostly a machining/manufacturing project.
Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?
Posted by: Whitney Mic Sep 21 2016, 06:49 PM
So close, but so far.
I certainly understand why it is a $500 part, but it is hard to justify at that price.
Maybe someone else here could pick up the project.
We are all (most all) tinkers, so all we probably need is a kit with the board cut/molded and the hard to source parts. (Probably just the pins, since automotive relays use regular 1/4 blade connectors.
As an EE I offer my (limited) skills, as this is mostly a machining/manufacturing project.
Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?
Well... It's not C-n-C exactly, but:
I have a 3-D printer, but from the pics of the block the design is far too complex for *my* skills. If the C-n-C uses a file I could export, convert and run on my printer, I can try to build the base plate.
If that doesn't work out and someone has the chops to CAD both sides of the relay board and send me an .STL file (or similar), I can convert that and put it on the printer and see what comes out. I've seen some very nice technical drawing since finding my way into the World, there must be someone around with the design skills I lack.
The 3-D printer I own can build to a volume of 6" X 9" X 8". I don't knowhow much time it would take to build this piece. So far I have printed some good, strong parts using ABS and PETG plastic; the PETG prints, but my machine doesn't really get hot enough for the stuff (if I could get it a few degrees hotter, PETG can print pretty much clear pieces).
Here's a piece I'm working on for the center console gauges so they point at me instead of at the interior light:
(sorry, it's a yuge pic) The piece is just a prototype, I will print them in black, sand, finish, and paint the ones I use in my cabin (I might even see about building them 10% larger and having a set cast in aluminum and anodized).
I can print in other plastic types as well, but will have to order material, set up the machine and see how it goes.
I am trying to learn how to design this stuff a bit late in life and the learning curve seems sharper for some reason. I might be able to build something close-ish, but doubt I could do the job right with my current skills.
I'm willing to donate the materials and time on the machine for prototyping a board if someone wants to give it a go. Once I have an idea of cost of material and time, I could figure a fair price for this part of the puzzle...No way I could handle a huge demand though. I'm still trying to figure how to get the printer to pay for itself and justify the price.
Putting it out there, just in case.
-- Whit
Posted by: N_Jay Sep 21 2016, 08:15 PM
If I can get the pins for the body and engine connectors, I might try just building one by hand out of plexiglass sheet.
Posted by: NS914 Sep 23 2016, 07:47 AM
Hi Steve,
Your relay board is truly a work of art...I am constantly amazed at the skills of many of you here in the world. Do you still have any boards left....it has been quite some time since you posted but I thought I would give you a yell.
I am in the final throws of putting my electrical back together and I know this board would likely eliminate as yet unknown issues that will surely arise...LOL!
Grant
Posted by: cegallegos99 Jan 14 2017, 11:48 PM
Hi
I am looking at yours as a new production
Do you have one more?
Posted by: Mueller May 16 2017, 11:59 AM
Steve,
If you decide to out source the machining of these let me know, new CNC mill at home with a 10 tool ATC
Posted by: Mikey914 May 16 2017, 02:00 PM
We've been spending some time putting together a redesigned board with solid state relays. I have to finish the 19mm master cylinders before I jump full bore into this, but these would look OEM until you pop the cover.
Posted by: peteyd Apr 3 2020, 02:38 PM
We've been spending some time putting together a redesigned board with solid state relays. I have to finish the 19mm master cylinders before I jump full bore into this, but these would look OEM until you pop the cover.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3348 have you made any progress on this project?
I am interested for a build here.
Pete
Posted by: mbseto Apr 3 2020, 03:45 PM
I'd volunteer to create an STL file (i.e. a file for a 3D printer) for the board itself if someone can help with component selection and placement on said board.
Posted by: Spoke Apr 3 2020, 05:20 PM
What needs to be done on this? Looks like it would be a PCB, some components, a frame of sorts, and some epoxy. I could help with the PCB if needed.
Posted by: Mikey914 Apr 3 2020, 07:19 PM
We've been spending some time putting together a redesigned board with solid state relays. I have to finish the 19mm master cylinders before I jump full bore into this, but these would look OEM until you pop the cover.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3348 have you made any progress on this project?
I am interested for a build here.
Pete
Actually we are working on the board. We decided that with the reliability of the relays we are making now going through 500,000 cycles the solid state thing built into the board, is really an added expense for no real extra value. The new boards are underway now.
Mark
Posted by: Spoke Apr 3 2020, 08:24 PM
Actually we are working on the board. We decided that with the reliability of the relays we are making now going through 500,000 cycles the solid state thing built into the board, is really an added expense for no real extra value. The new boards are underway now.
Mark
Solid State relays are quite sexy but not really needed here. High speed and extra cost are not advantages in the 914. Good call to stay with mechanical relays.
A little side story about SS relays. I'm a consultant for a major rail manufacturer and I was brought in a couple of years ago to analyze failures of a certain board with a high number of returns. It was a very complicated board with several power supplies, CPUs, FPGAs, and a lot of analog circuits on the board. I narrowed down a majority of failures to a particular SS relay on the board. There were six of these SS relays. They would not turn on. They had an LED input and LED receptors on the output side. Over time the current transfer ratio (CTR) would decay to the point where the relays would not turn on and the board would fail.
On one board someone thought a large FPGA had failed and it was replaced. The board worked fine for about 4 months then failed again. The FPGA was the driver for the SS relays. In my investigation I found that the SS relay could be annealed with heat and its CTR improved which is what happened on this board. The heat of removing and replacing the FPGA annealed one of the relays but it failed a short time later.
Here's the kicker: The relay was originally designed and manufactured by Bell Labs in the 1980's. I was in that group which designed the SS relays and I knew the part number. I did not design that SS relay. I did receive my one and only US patent with a SS relay. If you're interested, it's patent # US5360979A.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5360979
Posted by: Mikey914 Apr 3 2020, 08:54 PM
Size is really the issue. They are relitively inexpensive now, but we chose to improve the product we all need and make new boards that we may all need too.
BTW here's the latest.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: GregAmy Apr 3 2020, 09:03 PM
I suggest that one of the biggest failures on these boards is the physical contact between relay pins and the sockets.
If someone makes a board with new sockets and non-relaxed pins, it would likely be a good replacement and last for another half-century.
Posted by: Mikey914 Apr 3 2020, 09:15 PM
That's where we are going with this.
Posted by: peteyd Apr 6 2020, 06:04 AM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3348 have you made any progress on this project?
I am interested for a build here.
Pete
Actually we are working on the board. We decided that with the reliability of the relays we are making now going through 500,000 cycles the solid state thing built into the board, is really an added expense for no real extra value. The new boards are underway now.
Mark
Good news!
I look forward to seeing the end productPete
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