Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Saw teh oldest known Creamsicle today, need h

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 7 2003, 11:05 PM

So I went to Monterey today to see this 1974 914 LE car as I have been intending to for a few weeks… it is the earliest known VIN 914 LE to my knowledge and has been painted out to look more like a standard 914. The buyer of this car will either make out well or lose his proverbial shirt.

It’s in pretty good condition overall…been repainted a few years ago. There are a few blems in the bodywork, but nothing too serious. The battery tray is gone and there is rust in the rear trunk…but its repairable, the longs look solid enough. It does not have a Certificate of Authenticity, but it looks real to me. The exterior trim has been painted over in black and the authentic front spoiler has been replaced with an aftermarket spoiler.

Original A/C (disconnected), great upholstery, cracked dashpad. Engine rebuilt maybe 20K ago, has 128K(?) miles.

But there is one thing VERY unusual with this car and it could make a huge difference in its value to a collector. It is subtle and you have to look hard and you have to know 914s and LE in particular. The rust does not bother me and is not what I am talking about. Please go to the 914 LE Registry and look at VIN 14375, the very first LE listed, review the photos I have posted and tell me what you think. Specifically:

Whats the one serious issue with this car and what is this car worth?

http://members.rennlist.com/914_canam/

Note that recent Ebay sales figures are also indicated on other Creamsicles on the 914 LE website also for your reference.

Posted by: MarkV Jun 7 2003, 11:17 PM

Is this the car ? http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/0/4/48030804.htm

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 7 2003, 11:23 PM

Yes, same car. Many more shots on the 914 LE website and several others not included there.

Posted by: MarkV Jun 7 2003, 11:27 PM

The price is not bad even for a non-LE 74 2.0.

I paid $6,000 for my 73 2.0 in 1996. My car has or had many of the defects you just described. Rusted out battery tray, minor trunk rust, shot interior, non-op A/C. My car did come w/ a fresh engine but no FI.

I over paid but wanted a 73 w/ air & 2.0.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 7 2003, 11:37 PM

Boy, subtle is right. The only thing I noticed was the book with "Special Edition" accent color was listed. I have seen both used but I always thought the correct label was Limited Edition. Other than that you got me.

Price for the car $4k. Needs work to be a top dollar car. I hate welding all that stuff back in and cleaning up rust.
Opps, the Special Edition heater hose splitter is super rare, I have never seen one of those.
Geoff
I priced it without looking at the ad! So $4900 isn't too far off. Still lots of work to do.

Posted by: boxstr Jun 7 2003, 11:45 PM

Okay I looked at all of the pics and I went back and read the valuation section. Price seems fair for what it is. The a/c is something I would not want. The warm air splitter came on the 75-76 914s.
Okay Jeff times up what is the one thing that breings this LE down in value??
CCL

Posted by: ChrisReale Jun 8 2003, 12:01 AM

Why does it have a Ballast Resistor off the CHT?

I should clarify. I thought only 1973 2.0l came with a ballast resistor. Also, the VIN tag looks welded on...??

Posted by: MarkV Jun 8 2003, 12:46 AM

So if it's a 74 why does it have air pump injection lines? Did someone switch the engine to a 75-76? Maybe just the heads.

Did I win anything. Will you do a free MPS inspection for me. :finger2:

Posted by: MarkV Jun 8 2003, 01:01 AM

Only photo w/ Jeffs hand in it.

Attached image(s)

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 8 2003, 01:26 AM

it doesn't have the gray headlight relay covers!
that gives it away!!!! a imposter

Andy

Posted by: Qarl Jun 8 2003, 07:54 AM

Cylinder heads.. that's what I was thinking...

Never had experience with the air injection ports, so I'm not sure what I was looking at, but it didn't look right.

Not original engine = not high valuel

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 8 2003, 09:03 AM

I knew you guys were good... 1 hour 45 minutes to the right answer. Mark send me your MPS if you want...you have a sharp eye.

Yep its the air injection ports. A (Gen 3) 75-76 2.0 'feature' only. Also there was the Gen 3 oil filler cap...see how its different than the Gen 2 cap? The cap could have been swqapped, but the air injection plumbing on the heads were the giveaway. So there is a GC code 2.0 in the engine bay...less HP than the stocker engine but more importantly not correct and not original. Maybe not as huge an issue to most and the car is still in pretty good shape overall, but not a museum piece either.

The other things mentioned were ok. VIN tag was original, Gen 2 heat exchangers, everything else was fine. What looks like a ballast resistor in the photo is just a kluged onn wire extension onto the harness. It did have the grey headlight covers, they are just hard to photograph for some reason Sir A.

Here is my take on the pricing:

$6000 For restored, clean car, with COA with minor blems
-500 No COA
-1500 Rust repair, dent removal (pull the engine)
-1000 Accent trim color change and side stripes
-500 Deduct for incorrect engine

$2500-3000 Thats what this car is worth to me in ints current condition. I am sure the seller would not agree.

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jun 8 2003, 09:14 AM

On picture "Y"...

Is it my imagination that it appears like holes were filled in?

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 8 2003, 12:12 PM

Lawrence, no filled holes in Picture Y. I did notice that the picture resolution looks different on the three different monitors I access, some grainy and some sharp. Those sail panels are nice and smooth...felt under there just to confirm it.

There are many good things about this car and it definitely is worth keeping and returning to proper LE form. The hood is not drilled for a crest, only very limited rust other than the rear trunk floor and battery tray, and the body is in generally good shape. Its clean. A correct front spoiler may be hard to find, but the spoiler brackets are still on the car.

Geoff, the 'Special Edition' label is frequently used...car 16502 on the LE Registry also has a shot of the owners manual with the same term. In fact I see that term used more than the factory correct 'Limited Edition' name more often than not. Instant giveaway that a person is not fully informed of the correct name. One highly-visible 914 guy uses the SE term frequently, knows the correct term when challenged, publishes the SE term on his major website, and justifies it by saying...'well they are just special cars....so I call them Special Editions'.

Ok, whatever....

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 8 2003, 01:52 PM

I just remember from when they were new, but then my memory isn't what is used to be.
Hey, did I miss it or did Mike Mueller ever post a pic of the Grasshopper side stripe?
Geoff

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 8 2003, 02:29 PM

That Viper Green Carrera stripe is on the 914 LE site...

Posted by: MarkV Jun 8 2003, 06:49 PM

Jeff, I you are serious, I will send you my MPS. I also have a couple of harnesses I should have you look at. I just need to figure out if the MPS is any good first.

Thanks Mark

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 8 2003, 08:31 PM

Sure Im serious Mark, its no trouble. You won fair and square...I love these contests. I will characterize the MPS and give you a data sheet with its specifications. Cost estimates for harness repairs are also free. Please just include payment for the return shipping. I will PM you my address, I only do the repair work on the weekends though so time its arrival around that or it will sit around for a week until I can get to it.

Posted by: MarkV Jun 8 2003, 08:35 PM

Jeff,

No hurry, it's been sitting in a bin in my garage since 1996.

Thanks, Mark

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 8 2003, 11:07 PM

OK Jeff, where is the pic of the stripe? I looked everywhere.
Geoff

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 9 2003, 07:08 AM

Its on the 914 Limited Edition page...right below the Grasshopper description.