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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ More FI fun
Posted by: OU8AVW Aug 2 2015, 04:52 PM
So I'm still finding f-ups cause by the well respected Porsche shop here in Annapolis.
1- I pulled the valve covers off the check the adjustment. They had not adjusted the valves like I asked. They were WAY off. Jake say zero lash for my cam. They were very loose. Looking at my gaskets, they were not even checked....
2- I installed a fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment. Fired up the car and the gauge read 40psi!!!!!! 40 f--kin' PSI
So I adjusted the valves to .001" just so I could check them with a feeler. What do you know, the car ran better and it cured the high RMP lag I was feeling above 4500 rpm.
Then I dropped the fuel pressure to 30psi. Now it idled much better and had ALLOT more pick up. Smooth power delivery up to mid throttle.
At full-ish throttle it seemed to pop or misfire. I expect that it is running lean. Makes sense when you consider the asshat tuned the MPS with massive vacuum leaks and 40psi of fuel pressure so.......
I go to hook up my brand new LM2 to do the calibration and the stupid thing won't calibrate. 
I spent more time trying to figure this issue out then I did messing with the actual car. I guess I need to call Innovate tomorrow and see what they say.....
Posted by: Mike Bellis Aug 2 2015, 05:10 PM
So I'm still finding f-ups cause by the well respected Porsche shop here in Annapolis.
1- I pulled the valve covers off the check the adjustment. They had not adjusted the valves like I asked. They were WAY off. Jake say zero lash for my cam. They were very loose. Looking at my gaskets, they were not even checked....
2- I installed a fuel pressure gauge in the engine compartment. Fired up the car and the gauge read 40psi!!!!!! 40 f--kin' PSI
So I adjusted the valves to .001" just so I could check them with a feeler. What do you know, the car ran better and it cured the high RMP lag I was feeling above 4500 rpm.
Then I dropped the fuel pressure to 30psi. Now it idled much better and had ALLOT more pick up. Smooth power delivery up to mid throttle.
At full-ish throttle it seemed to pop or misfire. I expect that it is running lean. Makes sense when you consider the asshat tuned the MPS with massive vacuum leaks and 40psi of fuel pressure so.......
I go to hook up my brand new LM2 to do the calibration and the stupid thing won't calibrate.
I spent more time trying to figure this issue out then I did messing with the actual car. I guess I need to call Innovate tomorrow and see what they say.....Curious... If you can do the work, and do it better than the shop... Why take it there in the first place?
Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Aug 2 2015, 05:29 PM
Did you calibrate the lm2 in free air?
Posted by: OU8AVW Aug 3 2015, 07:55 AM
Free air calibration reads 0.00. That's the problem. It won't work at all. I tried re-flashing it, running the car, everything i could find online to try.
Posted by: OU8AVW Aug 3 2015, 07:59 AM
Why take it to a mechanic? Well, I assumed they would be able to get it perfect. I knew at some point I would have to learn all this but I wanted to be enjoying my car while I learned about D-Jet. Now I'm taking a crash coarse. My intention is to get it running 100% and go back for a partial refund. At least give the owner an earful.
I've built a few VW bugs but never an engine. This is my first Porsche, my first engine build and my first intro into fuel injection. One would think a seasoned mechanic would have something on a guy who's surfing the web for how-to info 
Posted by: McMark Aug 3 2015, 09:17 AM
Unfortunately, yours is the typical experience with shops. 
I've also had trouble with Innovate stuff. If you can convince them to give you a refund, I would switch to AEM or PLX. Innovate has the most word of mouth, but their quality control sucks.
Posted by: DBCooper Aug 3 2015, 09:50 AM
Second that.
Posted by: jd74914 Aug 3 2015, 10:05 AM
Second that.
Third McMark's recommendation.
The stuff from 14point7 also works really well. I started using it on our racecar's since it's much less expensive than competing products and we found it to be very reliable (no failure after 3+ years of abuse).
Posted by: stugray Aug 3 2015, 10:45 AM
I have been using a LM1 for a couple of years now with no problem.
Just a datapoint
Posted by: yeahmag Aug 3 2015, 12:09 PM
Same here, but the LM-1 is a different beast from a different age.
I have been using a LM1 for a couple of years now with no problem.
Just a datapoint
Posted by: OU8AVW Aug 3 2015, 06:30 PM
Well, machines are only as dumb as the user and the LM2 issue was mine. I figured it out and I'm getting numbers now. It's running a little rich at idle and part load and very lean at full throttle. So in goes the center screw and out comes the keyed alen head right?
Also, it wants to die when the trhottle is released. I have a decel valve installed. Is it loosen the decel to allow more air at deceleration or is it tighten it?
Posted by: Old Yella Aug 3 2015, 06:52 PM
Well, machines are only as dumb as the user and the LM2 issue was mine. I figured it out and I'm getting numbers now. It's running a little rich at idle and part load and very lean at full throttle. So in goes the center screw and out comes the keyed alen head right?
Also, it wants to die when the trhottle is released. I have a decel valve installed. Is it loosen the decel to allow more air at deceleration or is it tighten it?
loose the decal valve altogether you don't need it, just another thing to dick around with.
Posted by: BeatNavy Aug 3 2015, 07:30 PM
Mike, I went through similar symptoms a few weeks ago. Found on hard decel the engine wanted to stall out. I doubt the decel valve is related to your issues. More likely it's the lean running condition. Running lean seems to cause a host of potential issues.
Idle mixture is controlled by the ECU knob. You can adjust that separately from MPS adjustments.
I would fully warm up the car then take several runs on the same section of road (maybe a hill), and loosen only the inner screw on the MPS a little at a time (maybe 1/8th of a turn.) Record the results and do it again. Keep track of what you did each time as well as cumulatively (I printed out a table to record what I adjusted and took my son along to help me record results).
FWIW, I referenced the following two threads quite a bit, including the latter which I believe you originally had on one of your previous troubleshooting threads. It helped me, particularly with how to handle the outer screw:
http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/manifold_pressure_sensor.htm
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=75432
In the end I was surprised how much I had to adjust the MPS to get a sufficiently rich mixture after it was bench set "correctly." Racer Chris said as much, and I finally followed his advice (and that in the Greenwood thread above). I'm a newbie at this, but that helped me a lot. Good luck. You'll figure it out (and there will be no reason whatsoever to take it to one of those shops).
Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 4 2015, 06:36 AM
Sounds like the sensor is fouled. With 0.00 it has no voltage output being read by the LM2. The sensor is a VW/ Audi unit and can be bought locally.
Normal shops don't understand these cars, or engines. To them these cars are nostalgic pieces that are novelty items, and they don't see enough of them to be proficient with them.
This is the same reason why I have to be so critical when building engines. The wrong installation shop, or the wrong person trying to further "tune" my engine is a disaster waiting to happen. They can destroy it, and then guess who gets the finger pointed at them? Not the shop.
Posted by: OU8AVW Aug 4 2015, 08:37 AM
Jake, it was me that was fouled. I'm getting readings now. LM2 seems to work great.
Yeah, shops like to tell you they can help but they usually fail. I would prefer they just say that they have no clue how to work on this car.
I'll be fiddling with the MPS some more tonight. I'll be a D-Jet expert soon enough!
Posted by: stugray Aug 4 2015, 10:01 PM
I would fully warm up the car then take several runs on the same section of road (maybe a hill), and loosen only the inner screw on the MPS a little at a time (maybe 1/8th of a turn.) Record the results and do it again. Keep track of what you did each time as well as cumulatively (I printed out a table to record what I adjusted and took my son along to help me record results).
Since the LM2 can log the data itself, find a hill that you can go up at WOT and log data a few times.
The data is really only valid at WOT and under a load.
Ideally you could find a hill long enough & steep enough that you could maintain WOT for many seconds without accelerating too quickly (otherwise known as a dyno :-)
Posted by: 914_teener Aug 4 2015, 10:15 PM
I would fully warm up the car then take several runs on the same section of road (maybe a hill), and loosen only the inner screw on the MPS a little at a time (maybe 1/8th of a turn.) Record the results and do it again. Keep track of what you did each time as well as cumulatively (I printed out a table to record what I adjusted and took my son along to help me record results).
Since the LM2 can log the data itself, find a hill that you can go up at WOT and log data a few times.
The data is really only valid at WOT and under a load.
Ideally you could find a hill long enough & steep enough that you could maintain WOT for many seconds without accelerating too quickly (otherwise known as a dyno :-)
I am curious, please correct me if anybody's experience differs. I have to go down this path myself:
The MPS as I understand it has basically two basic settings. Part load and WOT. From the Anders site I understand these to be somewhat linear.
Wouldn't you want the data points for these two situations?
Also, isn't this the reason you would want a wide band meter instead of narrow?
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Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Aug 4 2015, 10:21 PM
It has a third calibration point = idle
Posted by: 914_teener Aug 4 2015, 10:38 PM
Whoops.
Thanks Jeff. Yes full stop at idle.
Hijack over.
Posted by: OU8AVW Aug 8 2015, 06:34 PM
So from what I can tell. because the above mentioned pages are written for engineers, is that the small screw adjusts the low load and the 7mm screw does the full load. In equals richer, out equals leaner.
I'm a little rich at low load 12.4:1 and a little lead at WOT 15:1.
So....
The inner small screw needs to come out and the 7mm outer screw needs to go in.
Am I understanding this correctly?
I just ordered the adjustment kit from Tangerine so I should be able to fiddle with it pretty accurately.
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