Any electricians out there that can help me with a couple house wiring questions. We're in the closing stages of building our garage add-on. My FIL is a journeyman electricain, but doesn't do Residential and therefore doesn't know the codes.
We're putting a new 200amp service outside the new garage wall that will feed the existing 125amp inside the new garage (outside the old garage). I suspect that will need to run in conduit (or should). My FIL wants to know if we can run 3 #2 wires to feed that old service. All the new wiring will come off the new 200amp service.
Questions about the garage and the Laundry room wiring.
How large do the holes need to be?
Do we need Conduit?
What is the minimum per wall? (we'll probably add more later)
If I put more per wall do you think it will raise concerns of (re)doing electrical calculations?
I know they all have to be GFI protected.
One of my research studies states that only the first in a string needs to be GFI the others can be standard and will pop the first GFI that they all go thru. Something like this.
o/ /========O========O=======O==============O
Breaker GFI std outlet std outlet std outlet
I think my other house was like this. Outlets in the front of the house would pop the GFI at the back Patio.
Do I need to put an outlet on the front car door mini walls?
I'd like to put an exterior outlet there...
Any help would be appreciated. We're getting close to shelter around the Porsches.
Dan (already had it posted on Andrews account. Oh well.)
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You can definately daisy chain outlets on a GFI outlet. I don't know about the code stuff though... that's a nightmare. The california additions to the NEC are available online though. You may have local additions as well. It might be worth getting a local guy to swing by and help you figure out what to do - for an hours work or so.
Usually a electrical inspector will swing by and answer all the questions you have.
You are getting it inspected, right?
Geoff
I cant help you with the wire sizing issue or the conduit issue because its a local ruling to a certain extent..
On the GFI issue, in an outdoor location that you will be daisy chaining plugs, i would put in a GFI breaker, versus a plug.
If the plug is outside or in damp conditions it will either corrode and pop, or pop alot more than you like.
I dont trust wet location GFI plugs...they are for convenience versus the breaker...
If the breaker is close by, use a breaker.
Rich
yes i am a master sparky
i will cut and paste answers
quote: I suspect that will need to run in conduit (or should). My FIL wants to know if we can run 3 #2 wires to feed that old service.
does not need to be in pipe unless its under ground or can get damaged, or its single wires.but you can use under ground rated wire then just sleave it to the panels. as for wire size it needs to be sized by branch circuit numbers. which means if copper # 2 are good to 100 amps, i would put the breaker in the new panel at 100 amps and run # 2 hots, a #4 nuetral, and a # 6 ground. thats what is allowed, you could go bigger but the wire prices go up very quickly when you get bigger.there is something with wire size saying #4 is good to 100 amps but most panels say rate wire at 90 degress cel. which bumps you to 80 amps on #4. and it is a sub panel so it needs seperate ground and nuetral
quote How large do the holes need to be?
Do we need Conduit?
What is the minimum per wall? (we'll probably add more later)
If I put more per wall do you think it will raise concerns of (re)doing electrical calculations?
what holes, do you mean for the wires through the studs, if so not so important just dont run more than 3 hots through one hole. you only need pipe if the wire is surface mounted if it is in the walls no you dont. if it is just a laundry room you only really need one, but other wise code is one outlet every 12 feet and with in 6 feet of the door way. as for the calc, good rule is not more 8 devices per 15 amp circuit.
quote :I know they all have to be GFI protected.
One of my research studies states that only the first in a string needs to be GFI the others can be standard and will pop the first GFI that they all go thru.
you only need to gfi outlets that are in unfinished area ie basements, wet areas ie garage, out side, bathrooms,kitchens. if the laundry room is finished it does not need gfi unless it is with 4 ffet of a wash sink. and yes you can daisy chain the out lets off of the load side of the gfi, most say 8 outlets.
as for out side outlets you need a light and an outlet at every entrance, with in use covers ( cost 4 times as much )
give me a call with any other questions
410 534 7319
oh some areas say you need a seperate 20 amp out let for the washer
Lots of great info. Thanks guys.
Yes, we're going the whole inspection route. But they won't help much. They are glad to tell you after you did it wrong, not before.
I'll look for the online stuff, the NEC code is hard to read. Thus the reason for my questions. My helper has a nifty flip chart with the common questions about codes. I'll probably go pick one up to use when he's not around.
I'll look at the GFI breaker, I have a bunch of plugs, so I may just use them. Most will go in the garage, but daisy chaining gives me some options.
Hey sparkey, You're over my head on some of this, but I'm sure my Father-In-Law will know what you mean. He's done commmercial elecrical work for 40+ years.
Yes, it's the drilling thru the studs that I'm asking about. I hope to insulate some of the garage and then cover the walls to keep the noise contained.
I'll have to go back and read this a few more times.
Thanks,
Dan
hollow walls make for wet teener...
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Dan,
I am in the process of finishing a project very similar to yours. In addition to a detached garage there is a 800 sq ft apartment above. Garage and apartment is powered by sub panels from a new meter. The service to the property was upgraded to 300 amps and I put in a new service entrance with two new meters, etc. I ended not going with utilizing the full 300 amps due to the same reasons mentioned by Scott - bigger wire is mucho more expensive, I think I needed 0000, not to mention I would not have been able to run wires that big from the weatherhead to the meter box.
I would be happy to answer any questions you have. I am not an electrician but I know the CA code pretty well (the garage/apt is my second major project). I would answer your questions in writing but there are many variables the are better discussed. Please do not hesitate to call me if you still have questions or just want to bounce different ideas off someone.
Jeff
408 943-2955 - work (OK to call, leave message and I will get back to you.)
408 529-9457 - cell (good for the commute hour.)
QUOTE (scruz914 @ Feb 28 2005, 11:08 PM) |
I think I needed 0000, not to mention I would not have been able to run wires that big from the weatherhead to the meter box. |
QUOTE |
We're putting a new 200amp service outside the new garage wall that will feed the existing 125amp |
Thanks Jeff,
Our run is from the street to the new panel, then feed the old panel. That way we don't have to rewire the house. We'll use the new panel to feed all the new circuits. The distance between the two is only over the top of the 2 car garage.
I would have loved to put an apartment over the top, but budget barely allowed this to happen at all. We're doing this all ourselves.
I'm still sore from roofing all weekend.
QUOTE (Neo914 @ Feb 28 2005, 11:43 PM) | ||
I'm not sure if it applies to garages but I could not keep the existing 125 service when I added on to my previous house. It became a junction to the newer 200A service box. I'd recommend hiring an electrician (even just for advise) in your area just to be sure. I suspect each county has variations or interpretations to the code(s). |
QUOTE (scott thacher @ Mar 1 2005, 12:42 AM) |
and to dan and jeff, most areas will say a detached building must have a main breaker and ground rods, basicly they want to treat it as a full service, not a sub panel due to its detached status. |
Bummer I caught this thread late. I was so excited to see a question I could answer, I got out my code book and started digging in... then I saw all of Scott's posts. Bummer, I was too late.
On those flip books... make sure they're written for the current code. I don't know what CA is using, but MA is now on 2005.
Look at www.mikeholt.com if you're interested in learning come code.
I'm not an electrical engineer, but I play one when my boss isn't around.
QUOTE |
and to dan and jeff, most areas will say a detached building must have a main breaker and ground rods, basicly they want to treat it as a full service, not a sub panel due to its detached status. |
I just wanted to thank everyone for their help. We now have the 200amp service functioning. We ran #2 sheathed wire over to the old service and everyone was happy. I even wired up the service and the plugs.
We're almost there and I can't wait. I have about 4 big jobs to do on my cars and Andrew has a big list to get ready for WCC.
Thanks all for your assistance!
(Next is GAS )
congrats on getting it done and legal
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