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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Bad Ignition Switch
Posted by: 57lincolnman Aug 11 2015, 06:44 PM
Has anyone had problems with replacement ignition switches? I replaced mine in 2012 and now three years later I have a failed ignition switch. Fortunately, this time it failed in my driveway completely immobilizing (no spark... nadda). The pattern seems to be that high temps in the interior cause the plastic casing to split. I'm putting a "fail-safe" button in a discrete location that will start the car should this ever happen again.
If anyone has a source for quality ignition switch, please pass it on. Thanks.
Posted by: Mike Bellis Aug 11 2015, 06:57 PM
The "new" Chinese switches cannot handle current flow very well. Most likely carbon buildup on the contact points. if you buy another, install relays for the ignition and starter positions like a modern car. No body builds high amperage switches anymore unless you pay big money and it won't be the type of switch you need.
Posted by: 914_teener Aug 11 2015, 07:09 PM
Has anyone had problems with replacement ignition switches? I replaced mine in 2012 and now three years later I have a failed ignition switch. Fortunately, this time it failed in my driveway completely immobilizing (no spark... nadda). The pattern seems to be that high temps in the interior cause the plastic casing to split. I'm putting a "fail-safe" button in a discrete location that will start the car should this ever happen again.
If anyone has a source for quality ignition switch, please pass it on. Thanks.
I replaced mine with the one from Pelican.
So far this Summer it's okay. I have the relay on my starter so we'll see.
I original one failed also in hot weather but it looked to be the original.
Posted by: iamchappy Aug 11 2015, 08:06 PM
I have been trying to problem solve an intermittent no spark no start stall condition in my car all week, can a failed ignition switch still crank fine with no spark. I have ruled out the electronic ignition as it works fine when bench tested, relay board and distributor pickup are the only other possible things that may be suspect.
Posted by: 914Sixer Aug 11 2015, 08:22 PM
You might want to try switches made by Meistersatz. Parent company is CRP that makes parts in US, Canada and Mexico. They have been around for 50 years. They also are making TS and Wiper switches under the CRP brand. That is the switch I am using. Meyle is made in China.
Posted by: Mike Bellis Aug 11 2015, 08:25 PM
I have been trying to problem solve an intermittent no spark no start stall condition in my car all week, can a failed ignition switch still crank fine with no spark. I have ruled out the electronic ignition as it works fine when bench tested, relay board and distributor pickup are the only other possible things that may be suspect.
Yes. Due to arching on the contact just like a set of points. Not only can you have carbon build up and stop continuity but the contact points can melt. This is why a relay is better. Bosch relays are rated at 30 amps. ignition switches are not and quality has suffered with the economy.
Posted by: iamchappy Aug 11 2015, 08:51 PM
I think i will pull apart some old steering columns and dig out the switches then and see what happens...this all manifested itself last weekend when washing the car I got moisture in the dizzy, I cranked the shit out of it trying to start it. When I dried out the dizzy it fired right up and drove it for about an hour on my way to car and coffee, after it sat for a few hours I had the no spark condition start up, did get the car restarted and home but don't dare drive it now as it starts sometimes and not others will stall after it starts and runs for a only a few minutes now.
Posted by: saigon71 Aug 12 2015, 08:22 AM
The "cheap" ignition switches only last me about 2 years. I've got a genuine Porsche switch on order from Germany through Pelican...hope it holds up longer (it better at $40).
If the Porsche switch doesn't do it, I'll be installing a relay on the starter.
Posted by: Kansas 914 Aug 12 2015, 08:57 AM
The "cheap" ignition switches only last me about 2 years. I've got a genuine Porsche switch on order from Germany through Pelican...hope it holds up longer (it better at $40).
If the Porsche switch doesn't do it, I'll be installing a relay on the starter.
I've been saving this Beck/Arnley switch for the '72 I am restoring.
Posted by: rdgabert Aug 12 2015, 08:58 AM
Hello,
After hearing horror stories about the cheap aftermarket switches I also ordered an OEM switch from Pelican.
It takes a little longer to get it from Germany but hopefully it lasts another 40 years, like the original.
Robert
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Aug 12 2015, 09:21 AM
I think i will pull apart some old steering columns and dig out the switches then and see what happens...this all manifested itself last weekend when washing the car I got moisture in the dizzy, I cranked the shit out of it trying to start it. When I dried out the dizzy it fired right up and drove it for about an hour on my way to car and coffee, after it sat for a few hours I had the no spark condition start up, did get the car restarted and home but don't dare drive it now as it starts sometimes and not others will stall after it starts and runs for a only a few minutes now.
Definitely change out the ign switch, we just had similar intermittent gremlins like yours ( '76. 2.0)...cured with the new switch . This is a daily driver, on our new v8 build it will be a push-button start (with relay >>good tip Mike).
Hey Chap...go easy with that garden hose
Marty
Posted by: patssle Aug 12 2015, 10:36 AM
I rerouted the starter through a push button that can handle the amps. Less current flowing through the ignition switch and less wear and tear too.
Posted by: jimkelly Aug 12 2015, 10:52 AM
http://mail.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=241272
Posted by: iamchappy Aug 12 2015, 10:53 AM
I just spent the better part of the morning playing around with it, i got it to start wiggled a few wires around the relay box area and it would stall, also pushed on the steering column wire connector on the back, I pulled the 14 pin connector off the relay board and cleaned up the contacts there was some white and green junk in them, plugged it in and car started and ran for about a half hour without any stalling, wiggled all the wires and key i could not get it to fail. Still dont trust it, will have to try and retry to see if it fails, if it is the switch i should again. i am going to order a new one just because i should.
Posted by: iamchappy Aug 12 2015, 07:45 PM
Everything seems to be working now, started the car off and on throughout the day no problems, took it for a ride and ran like it should. Time will tell but I must of put something in order.
Posted by: porschetub Aug 13 2015, 12:34 AM
You might want to try switches made by Meistersatz. Parent company is CRP that makes parts in US, Canada and Mexico. They have been around for 50 years. They also are making TS and Wiper switches under the CRP brand. That is the switch I am using. Meyle is made in China.
Pelican have them in stock now,Meyle....what were they thinking move production to China then forget about quality control and just sweep it under the mat.
Well documented on the net with the Audi and BMW guys.
Not like the parts got cheaper,a lot of aftermarket stuff is a crapshoot these days however.
Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 13 2015, 08:08 AM
This is all the more reason to install a relay, whether it be the Ford solenoid (IMHO best) or the bosch ghia horn relay.
Posted by: Kansas 914 Aug 13 2015, 08:42 AM
This is all the more reason to install a relay, whether it be the Ford solenoid (IMHO best) or the bosch ghia horn relay.
It becomes a non-issue with a solenoid.
Posted by: pda914 Aug 13 2015, 10:48 AM
Put in a new switch then add a relay to drive the solenoid. The relay is now the sacrificial part and will be cheap and easy to replace.
The solenoid has a 30 amp in-rush current and by the nature of things is very inductive. It will then spark on release which will destroy the switch contacts eventually. I destroyed mine when doing a megaquirt conversion where I was starting it a-lot to do the tuning. It also wasn't in good shape when I got the 914, I had an occasional problem with the switch. No problems now with a new switch driving the relay which drives the solenoid.
Posted by: iamchappy Aug 16 2015, 12:29 PM
Yep, it's the switch looky.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: 914_teener Aug 16 2015, 02:37 PM
That is exactly how mine cracked.
Posted by: Kraftwerk Aug 16 2015, 08:59 PM
Switch issues Argh!( that was last year for me but I got through it..)
Anyway, just in case people don't realize.. the '70 & '71 switch is a different part than the '72 on..
Correct me if I am wrong..
Posted by: 914Sixer Aug 16 2015, 09:06 PM
70-71 is VW Type 3 switch.
Posted by: Bartlett 914 Aug 17 2015, 08:20 AM
This is all the more reason to install a relay, whether it be the Ford solenoid (IMHO best) or the bosch ghia horn relay.
I always use a common standard from my FLAPS. The contacts are rated at 40 amp which is probably a lot more than the contact rating in the ignition switch. Using another solenoid seems to me that you are replacing one solenoid for another. The current draw on the solenoid coil is much higher than the small relay. This is what is needed to reduce the load on the ignition switch. We did this to a car at Garlod's BBQ this weekend and it worked great. I do it to all my cars.
Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 17 2015, 11:22 AM
This is all the more reason to install a relay, whether it be the Ford solenoid (IMHO best) or the bosch ghia horn relay.
I always use a common standard from my FLAPS. The contacts are rated at 40 amp which is probably a lot more than the contact rating in the ignition switch. Using another solenoid seems to me that you are replacing one solenoid for another. The current draw on the solenoid coil is much higher than the small relay. This is what is needed to reduce the load on the ignition switch. We did this to a car at Garlod's BBQ this weekend and it worked great. I do it to all my cars.
Meh...whatever....
I've been using the Ford solenoid since the 80's, likely there's a few hundred cars have this mod around here, whether I did it or recommend it.
All my VW cars get one even if they don't have a problem.
I've never replaced a single switch on one that uses it, but I have replaced a few bosch relays.
Posted by: iamchappy Aug 19 2015, 10:46 AM
Another thing you need to check when replacing the ignition switch is the plug, I found mine has seen some heat on the red and the black wire spade connectors inside the plug do to the resistance from the carbonized switch.
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