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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ The IMSA 914

Posted by: gms Aug 23 2015, 08:08 AM

After the comment I was reading in the “914-6/904 project begins” thread I felt the need to inform some of the members of this board about the 914s in IMSA or the 914 GTU. I am currently involved in research to write a book about this very subject so I will share some of my findings.

Between 1971 and 1987 there were forty-two 914s built and entered in IMSA sanctioned events in North America. In 1971 and 1972 the cars sported the factory M491 option package or their equivalent built by the privateer. The extensive use of fiberglass in the hood, rear deck lid, bumpers and rocker panels lightened the car while the 911 engine upgrades gave the horsepower to make this car competitive against all racers.

Starting in 1973 the cars had started to evolve into homegrown and sometimes innovative thoroughbred built by Americans with that “can do” attitude. It was not that Porsche didn’t do a great job converting the 914 into a race car it was just that the development done in 1970 was becoming outdated.

Wheels and tires were getting wider and this would drastically affect its shape as the fenders became wider and body panels were constructed of fiberglass. The Porsche factory never constructed a tail or developed any aerodynamic aids for the rear of a 914.so this would become the area of most diversity.

The 914 competed in the IMSA GTU class which allowed a 911 engine starting at a two liter displacement and expanding all the way up to three liters by the end of its eligibility.
There were also some 914/4s that competed; they were allotted a chassis weigh savings for their lack of displacement and two cylinders.

As the handling, acceleration and speed of the 914 were enhanced by these advancements the chassis required more strength, this was accomplished by the extensive use of tube framing and suspension reinforcement. In some cases suspension components were borrowed from the 911 RSR and 935.

Once the cars became firm and fast they needed improvements in their braking capability. As has always been the case the 914 borrowed calipers and master cylinders from its Porsche siblings, a few examples even used aircraft brake calipers.

Posted by: gms Aug 23 2015, 08:09 AM

There are three cars that reached the pinnacle of success in their time.
The Brumos GT was the most successful having won most of the races outright in 1971 and winning the first IMSA GTU class championship. This car owes its success to legendary pilots Hurley Haywood and Peter Gregg.

In 1977 the Garretson built racer driven by Walt Maas won the GTU championship. Development was credited to Porsche Icons Bob Garretson, Bruce Anderson and Jerry Wood.

In the 1980 24 hrs of Daytona race Bill Koll pulled off and amazing GTU class win, 5th place overall. This was not a fluke as Koll had place this car 3rd in class in 1978 and repeated the victory in1981 driving a 911.

Another standout in accomplishment and innovation was the four cylinder racer campaigned by Wayne Baker from 1979 to 1982. Although he never won a championship he had many class wins and podium finishes. If you get the chance to see this car at the track it is worth a look.

The craziest example has to be the twin turbo charged rocket built by Harald Von Keszycki who took a factory GT and built this monster with custom fiberglass bodywork. Although this car did not have much success it was at the cutting edge of technology.

One of the most recognizable has to be the black Altec-Lansing entry, although it only accomplished a handful of podium finishes the illustrious poster with a Playboy Playmate has made it unforgettable.

Posted by: gms Aug 23 2015, 08:12 AM

Interesting Facts about the 914 GTU:

13 of these cars are currently being restored for vintage racing; some of the owners may surprise you.

14 of these cars are currently being raced or are more or less race ready.

1 of these cars was run at the Targa Florio as a trainer car for factory drivers.

1 of the three 914/6 GTs that ran at the 24 hrs of Le Mans became an IMSA racer.

1 2 of the cars had a complete tube frame developed for the Pontiac Fiero.

5 of these cars started life as factory built GTs.

2 of these cars started life as Ginther Roadsters.

3 of these cars ran 4 cylinder engines

3 of these cars have cages built by Chuck Gaa of Gaaco

Only 1 is confirmed to be scrapped…so far

Posted by: RobW Aug 23 2015, 08:40 AM

Thanks Glenn

Bob Garretson also wrote the forward for the Caught By Camera book, where he talks about his racing experiences Glenn relates.

I believe his and others racing campaigns are what helped make our cars what they are today. smile.gif

The 914 has risen from true underdog past the 924, 928, 912, 944, and 968 into what it is today... a classic street race capable car.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Aug 23 2015, 12:05 PM

Thanks for keeping track of all those cars, it really was a great time in the IMSA series back then. I had the pleasure of crewing with a Mazda RS Challenge car back in tose days (my hearing has never been the same since playing with those unmuffled rotary engines), and always loved seeing the GTU 914s at the races. Kicking around the paddocks and seeing those cars and the 911s fueled my lifelong passions.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Aug 23 2015, 12:43 PM


Great info Glenn
Doug Arnao of New Jersey was a SCCA National Champion in one of the cars mentioned.
He built the car and did all fabrication and development himself.
And, as I recall, was honored for his efforts by Porsche AG

Posted by: GeorgeRud Aug 23 2015, 12:53 PM

Dave Finch also did a great job on the SCCA circuit in the 914s.

Posted by: wndsnd Aug 23 2015, 03:08 PM

Thank you Glenn, this is good stuff. I look forward to reading your book.
I am understanding the passion behind the 904 arguments more.

beerchug.gif

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 23 2015, 03:27 PM

As interest in our cars increase and values rise this is a part of 914 history that is timely and important. Thanks for doing this Glenn. Looking forward reading the book.

Posted by: RoadGlue Aug 23 2015, 06:20 PM

Can't wait for the book!

Posted by: carr914 Aug 24 2015, 04:48 AM

It better be a Picture Book for most of this Crowd! biggrin.gif

My Ex - still in the World family

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Posted by: maf914 Aug 24 2015, 05:46 AM

Thanks for the 914 history lesson, Glenn. Best of luck with the book. I will definitely want to add a copy to the 914 library.

Posted by: flyer86d Aug 24 2015, 05:49 AM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Aug 23 2015, 02:43 PM) *

Great info Glenn
Doug Arnao of New Jersey was a SCCA National Champion in one of the cars mentioned.
He built the car and did all fabrication and development himself.
And, as I recall, was honored for his efforts by Porsche AG

Doug started out with a 914-6 with a 2.7 and learned how to drive at PCA DEs. After a few mishaps, the car was morphing into a dedicated track car with a twin plug, 906 cammed 3.2. Over the next winter. He bought a set of tube frame Fiero plans, built a fabrication table in Jim and Kathy Foster's garage, and started welding. By spring he had a race ready 914-6 tube frame car. He took it to a couple of PCA events to sort it out (with a dis approving NNJR board of governors watching carefully). At Summit Point, one of the rear cast Fiero suspension uprights broke launching him through the trees damaging the car. He then converted his old 914-6 into a C production car and went SCCA racing. Over the following winter, he redesigned his tube frame car to use 914-6 suspension front and rear and developed it into a very fast C production car and IMSA car. Dr Frank Juhasz bought his old 914-6 based C production car and raced it for a few years. I remember driving it at Pocano and marveled at how well sorted it was.

Charlie

Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 24 2015, 10:13 AM

When I was a teenager I saw Doug's IMSA 914 at Summit Point when it broke an upright as Charlie mentions above. I was watching him drive when it happened, in fact. I'd turned my head for a second and next thing I knew it was upside down sliding across the grass. I'd looked at the car earlier that day with the bodwork off. It was the coolest 914 I've seen to this day. He used the Huffaker Fiero plans and chassis parts as mentioned. It had dual A arms at all 4 corners and inboard mounted shocks.

I thought he'd raced the car in IMSA in that configuration, but when I checked recently on racingsportscars.com or one of the other IMSA stats sites, it didn't show up.

After he converted it to run SCCA GT-2, he wons a lot of races with the car. I don't think we won a national championship but did place 3rd one of the years Finch won in his 944. I posted a video of that race few weeks ago over in the Paddock forum. Doug helped me build my own 914 (see sig at left) and I had the spoiler off the old IMSA car on my car at one point. He was definitely a go-to guy for building fast 914s.

I've seen pictures of another Fiero-based 914 that ran Sebring or Daytona I think, I thnk here on this forum actually. I don't know who owned or drove it though.

Posted by: gms Aug 24 2015, 10:30 AM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Aug 24 2015, 11:13 AM) *

I've seen pictures of another Fiero-based 914 that ran Sebring or Daytona I think, I thnk here on this forum actually. I don't know who owned or drove it though.

It was the Altman Bros, not to be confused with the Allman bros

Posted by: gms Aug 24 2015, 11:00 AM

here is a picture of the Altman car taken by Martin Arnaud at the 1987 - 12 hrs of Sebring. If anyone knows the whereabouts of this car please let me know.
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Posted by: gms Aug 24 2015, 11:05 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Aug 24 2015, 05:48 AM) *

It better be a Picture Book for most of this Crowd! biggrin.gif

My Ex - still in the World family

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As T.C. pointed out this car is being restored by a board member, here is the link
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=91937

The book will have lot of picture biggrin.gif

Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 24 2015, 11:22 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 24 2015, 01:00 PM) *

here is a picture of the Altman car taken by Martin Arnaud at the 1987 - 12 hrs of Sebring. If anyone knows the whereabouts of this car please let me know.



That's the one. Very enterprising, the Altman brothers. They had a cool 911 as well (I guess before the 914?) that had a much wider front end than standard and custom bodywork. I think Jay Kjoller raced that car for a few years after they sold it.

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 3 2015, 04:27 PM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Aug 24 2015, 12:22 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 24 2015, 01:00 PM) *

here is a picture of the Altman car taken by Martin Arnaud at the 1987 - 12 hrs of Sebring. If anyone knows the whereabouts of this car please let me know.



That's the one. Very enterprising, the Altman brothers. They had a cool 911 as well (I guess before the 914?) that had a much wider front end than standard and custom bodywork. I think Jay Kjoller raced that car for a few years after they sold it.



http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/Jay-Kjoller-USA.html
https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/jay-kjoller/
http://www.pbase.com/image/49903895

Wonder if the car could be located?

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 3 2015, 07:06 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 24 2015, 09:00 AM) *

here is a picture of the Altman car taken by Martin Arnaud at the 1987 - 12 hrs of Sebring. If anyone knows the whereabouts of this car please let me know.
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Wow, just noticed the horizontal fan, goes with all the other trick bits on that chassis.

Posted by: Doug914 Sep 4 2015, 05:56 AM

QUOTE(JmuRiz @ Sep 3 2015, 05:06 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 24 2015, 09:00 AM) *

here is a picture of the Altman car taken by Martin Arnaud at the 1987 - 12 hrs of Sebring. If anyone knows the whereabouts of this car please let me know.
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Wow, just noticed the horizontal fan, goes with all the other trick bits on that chassis.


The Altman bros were known for there motors. Titanium factory connecting rods, flat fans, and that kinda stuff..They had a pretty large budget compared to us lowly blue collar racers smile.gif. Their fiero chassis based car was a direct result of seeing mine (as mentioned elsewhere), As they always had great power, but struggled with the 911 chassis.

Bruce Jones and Bruce Jankowitz drove my Fiero based car in the 2 or 3 IMSA races it ran, while I was behind on getting my FIA license to run in IMSA. I eventually entered one race with the 3 of us driving at 6 hours of (?) Watkins Glen, but something broke and I believe we never started the race. Then early that next year I wrecked it at Summit testing in a PCA event, as Scott mentioned. The rest is SCCA GT2 history.

Posted by: Jon H. Sep 4 2015, 09:43 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 23 2015, 06:09 AM) *

the illustrious poster with a Playboy Playmate has made it unforgettable.


Coincidentally, I found this while i was looking on the bird board for ideas for my 2.23L upgrade.
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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 4 2015, 11:28 AM

This came today in the mail, it's cool.


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Posted by: Mueller Sep 4 2015, 12:10 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 4 2015, 10:28 AM) *

This came today in the mail, it's cool.



Nice, how many millimeters are you going to have to chop out of it to "convert" it to a 904? smile.gif

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 4 2015, 12:22 PM

That's a super cool model...

http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile-pratique/modelisme-modeles-reduits/sujet756-1855.htm



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Posted by: RobW Sep 4 2015, 12:31 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Sep 4 2015, 11:10 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 4 2015, 10:28 AM) *

This came today in the mail, it's cool.



Nice, how many millimeters are you going to have to chop out of it to "convert" it to a 904? smile.gif

Damn!

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 4 2015, 12:59 PM

QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Sep 4 2015, 10:22 AM) *

That's a super cool model...

http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile-pratique/modelisme-modeles-reduits/sujet756-1855.htm



Cogbill's convertible D is one of my favorite 356's, when I did the story on that car no one knew the history on it, not even Joe. I traced it to the original owner, Dr. David Helmick, who won Sebring. He took the car to Europe when he got drafted, raced it at Le Mans, and tracks all over Europe, he even took it to the Factory to have them put disc brakes on it. A very cool car!


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Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 4 2015, 01:02 PM

Last Page.


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Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 4 2015, 02:44 PM

Cool story, but what does it have to do with IMSA 914s?

--DD

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Sep 4 2015, 03:08 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Sep 4 2015, 01:44 PM) *

Cool story, but what does it have to do with IMSA 914s?

--DD



It's one of the models in that pic from Europe, next to the 914 model like the one he received. Also P-car content, so no foul in my book.

The Cogbill 356 appears next to one of my all-time faves, the Jennings Speedster (pre-restoration?). Pretty cool that a model of the Cogbill D is sitting next to the 914 you now own, and that both are/were significant enough to have inspired models of them.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 4 2015, 09:30 PM

QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Sep 4 2015, 01:08 PM) *

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Sep 4 2015, 01:44 PM) *

Cool story, but what does it have to do with IMSA 914s?

--DD



It's one of the models in that pic from Europe, next to the 914 model like the one he received. Also P-car content, so no foul in my book.

The Cogbill 356 appears next to one of my all-time faves, the Jennings Speedster (pre-restoration?). Pretty cool that a model of the Cogbill D is sitting next to the 914 you now own, and that both are/were significant enough to have inspired models of them.


A friend of mine sold the Jenning's Carrera Speedster awhile back for at the time record money, about $250,000, wonder what it would be worth now?

Posted by: dug Sep 5 2015, 01:46 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Sep 4 2015, 01:44 PM) *

Cool story, but what does it have to do with IMSA 914s?

--DD


agree.gif WTF.gif

Ditto, but let's stop beating around the bush here.

Adam didn't like us having a direct conversation about trying to stop him cutting up an interesting car in his thread, so now he's posting 356 crap in Glenn's 914 IMSA thread even though Glenn was super classy in his introduction.

This is not a "P-car" forum. It's frickin' 914-World. If I wanted to read about 356s I would go to bathtubs-r-us.com or wherever the heck people talk about those.

Adam from page 4 of his 904 "build" thread.
"2. If you don't like what I'm building then please get out of my sandbox."

Adam needs to take his irrelevant 914 hating drivel and go elsewhere.
He'll get no welcome from me here.

dug

Posted by: dug Sep 5 2015, 01:48 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 4 2015, 10:28 AM) *

This came today in the mail, it's cool.


Is that so you have something to remember it by?

Posted by: carr914 Sep 5 2015, 03:46 AM

QUOTE(dug @ Sep 5 2015, 03:46 AM) *

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Sep 4 2015, 01:44 PM) *

Cool story, but what does it have to do with IMSA 914s?

--DD


agree.gif WTF.gif

Ditto, but let's stop beating around the bush here.

Adam didn't like us having a direct conversation about trying to stop him cutting up an interesting car in his thread, so now he's posting 356 crap in Glenn's 914 IMSA thread even though Glenn was super classy in his introduction.

This is not a "P-car" forum. It's frickin' 914-World. If I wanted to read about 356s I would go to bathtubs-r-us.com or wherever the heck people talk about those.

Adam from page 4 of his 904 "build" thread.
"2. If you don't like what I'm building then please get out of my sandbox."

Adam needs to take his irrelevant 914 hating drivel and go elsewhere.
He'll get no welcome from me here.

dug


Yep, just a Drama Queen! I can't believe that he is even posting in this Thread since he is destroying History.

Posted by: RobW Sep 5 2015, 07:13 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Aug 24 2015, 10:00 AM) *

here is a picture of the Altman car taken by Martin Arnaud at the 1987 - 12 hrs of Sebring. If anyone knows the whereabouts of this car please let me know.
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This is a cool car! Love the modifications and efforts required....

(gratuitous attempt to get thread back on topic....) bye1.gif


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Posted by: gms Sep 5 2015, 09:00 AM

This is from an email Bruce Anderson sent about the 2nd Garretson Enterprise IMSA racer:
"We did engine and chassis development for that car when Walt and Terry owned it, but we didn't have anything to do with the body work... Dave did that.

Bruce Anderson
one of the owners and General Manager of Garretson Enterprises"

a picture of Bruce looking the car over years later
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Posted by: gms Sep 5 2015, 09:02 AM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 4 2015, 12:28 PM) *

This came today in the mail, it's cool.

This whole 904 body on an IMSA 914 thread reminds me of the documentary “Banksy Does New York” that I saw about the British graffiti artist named Banksy coming to NYC and every day for a month he would do one of his paintings or sculptures somewhere in the city. The word would get out and everyone would hurry to the location to see the work of art. The reason they had to hurry was because there were people who enjoy shitty on everything others covet and enjoy who would race to the site to deface the Banksy work. The thing that shocked me is that some of the people in the crowd would cheer as the vandal was destroying the artwork. Does this sound familiar?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 5 2015, 02:52 PM

You know, I woke up this morning and read all of this bizarre ranting coming from a couple of you guys. It's not a p-car forum?

I guess for a few of you guys teener is really a good term, because you have some real growing up to do to be in the Porsche world.

But the good news is I didn't give this a 2nd thought as I showed up for a packed open house, full of all Porsches, even some 914's. We even had a celebrity, Frank Serpico showed up, how cool is that? And he did confirm to me that Al Pacino played him better than himself in the movie.

I posted history on a very cool car that was pictured in this thread, one that I did a lot of research on and thought I would share it with the group but I guess you guys don't want to know about anything built before your cars, because who would want to know about Porsche history?

Grow up guys, or remain teeners, but you sound really childish.


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Posted by: gms Sep 5 2015, 03:29 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 5 2015, 03:52 PM) *

You know, I woke up this morning and read all of this bizarre ranting coming from a couple of you guys. It's not a p-car forum?

FYI - There is a forum named "the Sandbox" for all the off-topic threads.

I am relieved because I thought you were going to say it was the framework for your new project...a Cayenne on a SCCA national championship 356.

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 5 2015, 03:52 PM) *

We even had a celebrity, Frank Serpico...

Frank Serpico did NOT race a 914 in IMSA so again not real relevant to this thread.

screwy.gif

Posted by: dug Sep 5 2015, 07:25 PM

You're calling us childish for defending the clearly stated purpose of this board and thread while you are shamelessly plugging your business while pretending to care about Porsche history?!?

You've now posted more photos in this thread that are off topic than all the photos from all other posters.

Your accusation that we don't want to know about Porsche history is particulary hilarious given that Glenn created this thread to specifically discuss 914 IMSA history that he has spent decades researching, while you just regurgitated an old magazine article. Thanks for your profound teaching.

Again WTF.gif

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 5 2015, 08:27 PM

Thanks again Glenn for researching this special time in 914 history. Your book will undoubtedly rock our 914 world.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 5 2015, 09:31 PM

QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Sep 4 2015, 02:08 PM) *

It's one of the models in that pic from Europe, next to the 914 model like the one he received. Also P-car content, so no foul in my book.


Perhaps the thread could be split, then?

--DD

Posted by: Chris Pincetich Sep 5 2015, 09:43 PM

Glenn - you da man beerchug.gif
Should be a great book! Please share more here as you can, especially pics!

It would be great to keep going with the accounts of 914s in IMSA, documenting it all in this thread with this title that will come up for those searching historic racing, 914 GTU and IMSA. Some day my bland, 1972 1.7 may morph into a historic racer, if I get enough $$ (hey, I'm a CSOB childish teener owner after all), and doing a tribute car project would be awesome. Restoring a real racer, with history, would be a dream.

Keep living the dream! beerchug.gif

Posted by: gms Sep 7 2015, 10:05 AM

Rick & Chris thanks for your kind words

Posted by: gms Sep 7 2015, 10:06 AM

I finally have found my very own Altec poster
Thanks Pete!
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Posted by: Larmo63 Sep 7 2015, 11:23 AM

The IMSA information and pictures are interesting and informative. The more of this information I see leads me to think that it would be more advantageous for Adam to restore the authentic IMSA 914 he has as a historic piece. (I've changed my mind)

Adam's 356 story, while interesting too, doesn't belong in this thread.

I believe Adam's historic IMSA racer is his to do with what he wants, but he could have a great historic IMSA race car that would fit right into this thread some day.

Great job on digging this stuff up, Glenn! first.gif

Posted by: gms Sep 7 2015, 11:55 AM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Sep 7 2015, 12:23 PM) *

The IMSA information and pictures are interesting and informative. The more of this information I see leads me to think that it would be more advantageous for Adam to restore the 914 as a historic piece. (I've changed my mind)

Good to hear!
These are really fascinating cars (to me), each IMSA 914 approached a little different.
Some very successful...some not so much

Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 7 2015, 12:04 PM

I hear Bruce Jennings Speedster has a 906 body now.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 7 2015, 12:35 PM

I want to clear up a large mis-conception. It's not that I don't have reverence for the history of this car, I do. I can truly appreciate the significance of it's long history on the track. I even had a very nice conversation with Bob Garretson about the car the other day.
But I'm in the same quandry as everyone else who appreciates this car, while the heart yearns for it to stay true, the wallet can't be hurt. Had anyone really thought this car was valuable as an ex-IMSA car it would have sold sometime in the last 8 years, or at the very least someone would have stepped up and bought it from me. Considering 914/6 conversions running and driving are now in the $25,000-50,000 range this car with the successful conversion and the racing history should command somewhere in the middle of that range. But alas, the market has spoken, while interesting and in some ways fascinating, the history of this car does not in fact add value to the car, and I'm not able to accept having to sell this car for low money and having to pay high money for a 914/6 conversion, the wallet cannot be overtaken by the heart. And apparently, I'm not the only one who feels this way, because there have been no other wallets speaking or opening.

Posted by: RAX 914 Sep 7 2015, 01:22 PM

Then name a f@king price already.....that's right.....it's not for sale....

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 7 2015, 01:27 PM

QUOTE(RAX 914 @ Sep 7 2015, 11:22 AM) *

Then name a f@king price already.....that's right.....it's not for sale....

It's not that it isn't for sale, it's that I'm not trying to sell it, if someone wants it, they can buy it. Is that f@king clear enough?

Posted by: zambezi Sep 7 2015, 01:28 PM

Uh... no

Posted by: RoadGlue Sep 7 2015, 01:44 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 7 2015, 11:35 AM) *

I want to clear up a large mis-conception. It's not that I don't have reverence for the history of this car, I do. I can truly appreciate the significance of it's long history on the track. I even had a very nice conversation with Bob Garretson about the car the other day.
But I'm in the same quandry as everyone else who appreciates this car, while the heart yearns for it to stay true, the wallet can't be hurt. Had anyone really thought this car was valuable as an ex-IMSA car it would have sold sometime in the last 8 years, or at the very least someone would have stepped up and bought it from me. Considering 914/6 conversions running and driving are now in the $25,000-50,000 range this car with the successful conversion and the racing history should command somewhere in the middle of that range. But alas, the market has spoken, while interesting and in some ways fascinating, the history of this car does not in fact add value to the car, and I'm not able to accept having to sell this car for low money and having to pay high money for a 914/6 conversion, the wallet cannot be overtaken by the heart. And apparently, I'm not the only one who feels this way, because there have been no other wallets speaking or opening.


Adam, you're doing EXACTLY what we talked about all over again, but this time it's in another member's thread. Stop it. Just fucking stop repeating yourself like a broken record.

The car isn't for sale and we've heard the story over and over now. Nobody in this thread is interested. If you want to talk about anything to do with your project then have the common courtesy to do so in the confines of your own 914/904 thread.

As I've stated clearly before, this forum is here in support of the preservation/restoration/use/etc of 914s. What you're doing falls outside the norm and you're causing a shitstorm with some of the site's most valued contributors. You can justify your project however you seem fit but in the end you're destroying a 914. It's your right to do so but don't expect the support of the majority of this forum.

PM me if you have questions. Please do everyone a favor and DO NOT reply in this thread. Move on.

Thank you,

Randy

Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 7 2015, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 7 2015, 02:35 PM) *

I want to clear up a large mis-conception. It's not that I don't have reverence for the history of this car, I do. I can truly appreciate the significance of it's long history on the track. I even had a very nice conversation with Bob Garretson about the car the other day.
But I'm in the same quandry as everyone else who appreciates this car, while the heart yearns for it to stay true, the wallet can't be hurt. Had anyone really thought this car was valuable as an ex-IMSA car it would have sold sometime in the last 8 years, or at the very least someone would have stepped up and bought it from me. Considering 914/6 conversions running and driving are now in the $25,000-50,000 range this car with the successful conversion and the racing history should command somewhere in the middle of that range. But alas, the market has spoken, while interesting and in some ways fascinating, the history of this car does not in fact add value to the car, and I'm not able to accept having to sell this car for low money and having to pay high money for a 914/6 conversion, the wallet cannot be overtaken by the heart. And apparently, I'm not the only one who feels this way, because there have been no other wallets speaking or opening.


Adam,
I don't think it really is a matter of the wallet over the heart or the reverse. For me, it's more of a do-the-right-thing situation. If you truly as you say have some reverence for the history, and the history is bigger than just the car, it's also the legacy of the three who built it and the memories of those who grew up with and loved the IMSA cars - you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. You should have recognized that this is not a car you should use as a cut-up for your project.
I have accepted that you really won't do the right thing so I have pretty much bowed out of this discussion.
As far as Adam not posting here, I think it is alright from the point of view that Glenn is getting lots of quotes for his manuscript as far as explaining what happened to this car.
As far as posting the unrelated article? That's just salve for your self-image. We get it. You think you're pretty cool...

Posted by: RAX 914 Sep 7 2015, 01:51 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 7 2015, 12:27 PM) *

QUOTE(RAX 914 @ Sep 7 2015, 11:22 AM) *

Then name a f@king price already.....that's right.....it's not for sale....

It's not that it isn't for sale, it's that I'm not trying to sell it, if someone wants it, they can buy it. Is that f@king clear enough?



Clear....How much do you want for it?

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Sep 7 2015, 01:56 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Sep 7 2015, 11:45 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 7 2015, 02:35 PM) *

I want to clear up a large mis-conception. It's not that I don't have reverence for the history of this car, I do. I can truly appreciate the significance of it's long history on the track. I even had a very nice conversation with Bob Garretson about the car the other day.
But I'm in the same quandry as everyone else who appreciates this car, while the heart yearns for it to stay true, the wallet can't be hurt. Had anyone really thought this car was valuable as an ex-IMSA car it would have sold sometime in the last 8 years, or at the very least someone would have stepped up and bought it from me. Considering 914/6 conversions running and driving are now in the $25,000-50,000 range this car with the successful conversion and the racing history should command somewhere in the middle of that range. But alas, the market has spoken, while interesting and in some ways fascinating, the history of this car does not in fact add value to the car, and I'm not able to accept having to sell this car for low money and having to pay high money for a 914/6 conversion, the wallet cannot be overtaken by the heart. And apparently, I'm not the only one who feels this way, because there have been no other wallets speaking or opening.


Ok, so it's ok for other to post about my car, crack jokes about me and my car, but not ok for me to clear up a mis-conception about what people are saying about me and my car?
Also, when I bought the car I didn't know the IMSA history, the last owner didn't know anything about the car, except he got it from Automotive Archelogy, who had raced it in the 2000's in the mid-west. It wasn't until after I bought it, had it shipped here, and starting pouring money into it that I learned of it's IMSA history.
See this thread is full of assumptions about me.

Adam,
I don't think it really is a matter of the wallet over the heart or the reverse. For me, it's more of a do-the-right-thing situation. If you truly as you say have some reverence for the history, and the history is bigger than just the car, it's also the legacy of the three who built it and the memories of those who grew up with and loved the IMSA cars - you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. You should have recognized that this is not a car you should use as a cut-up for your project.
I have accepted that you really won't do the right thing so I have pretty much bowed out of this discussion.
As far as Adam not posting here, I think it is alright from the point of view that Glenn is getting lots of quotes for his manuscript as far as explaining what happened to this car.
As far as posting the unrelated article? That's just salve for your self-image. We get it. You think you're pretty cool...



Ok, so it's ok for others to post about my car, crack jokes about me and my car, but not ok for me to clear up a mis-conception about what people are saying about me and my car?
Also, when I bought the car I didn't know the IMSA history, the last owner didn't know anything about the car, except he got it from Automotive Archelogy, who had raced it in the 2000's in the mid-west. It wasn't until after I bought it, had it shipped here, and starting pouring money into it that I learned of it's IMSA history.
See this thread is full of assumptions about me.

Posted by: RoadGlue Sep 7 2015, 02:12 PM

I've PM'd Adam.

Let's get this thread back on track. No more melodrama. If you want to continue the Adam/904 project or anything related to it then please do so on his 914/904 thread or PM him.

Thank you,

Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 7 2015, 02:14 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 7 2015, 03:56 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Sep 7 2015, 11:45 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 7 2015, 02:35 PM) *

I want to clear up a large mis-conception. It's not that I don't have reverence for the history of this car, I do. I can truly appreciate the significance of it's long history on the track. I even had a very nice conversation with Bob Garretson about the car the other day.
But I'm in the same quandry as everyone else who appreciates this car, while the heart yearns for it to stay true, the wallet can't be hurt. Had anyone really thought this car was valuable as an ex-IMSA car it would have sold sometime in the last 8 years, or at the very least someone would have stepped up and bought it from me. Considering 914/6 conversions running and driving are now in the $25,000-50,000 range this car with the successful conversion and the racing history should command somewhere in the middle of that range. But alas, the market has spoken, while interesting and in some ways fascinating, the history of this car does not in fact add value to the car, and I'm not able to accept having to sell this car for low money and having to pay high money for a 914/6 conversion, the wallet cannot be overtaken by the heart. And apparently, I'm not the only one who feels this way, because there have been no other wallets speaking or opening.


Ok, so it's ok for other to post about my car, crack jokes about me and my car, but not ok for me to clear up a mis-conception about what people are saying about me and my car?
Also, when I bought the car I didn't know the IMSA history, the last owner didn't know anything about the car, except he got it from Automotive Archelogy, who had raced it in the 2000's in the mid-west. It wasn't until after I bought it, had it shipped here, and starting pouring money into it that I learned of it's IMSA history.
See this thread is full of assumptions about me.

Adam,
I don't think it really is a matter of the wallet over the heart or the reverse. For me, it's more of a do-the-right-thing situation. If you truly as you say have some reverence for the history, and the history is bigger than just the car, it's also the legacy of the three who built it and the memories of those who grew up with and loved the IMSA cars - you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. You should have recognized that this is not a car you should use as a cut-up for your project.
I have accepted that you really won't do the right thing so I have pretty much bowed out of this discussion.
As far as Adam not posting here, I think it is alright from the point of view that Glenn is getting lots of quotes for his manuscript as far as explaining what happened to this car.
As far as posting the unrelated article? That's just salve for your self-image. We get it. You think you're pretty cool...



Ok, so it's ok for others to post about my car, crack jokes about me and my car, but not ok for me to clear up a mis-conception about what people are saying about me and my car?
Also, when I bought the car I didn't know the IMSA history, the last owner didn't know anything about the car, except he got it from Automotive Archelogy, who had raced it in the 2000's in the mid-west. It wasn't until after I bought it, had it shipped here, and starting pouring money into it that I learned of it's IMSA history.
See this thread is full of assumptions about me.


I get how you see the situation. If it is true that you didn't know, I understand that as well. However, if it had been me, and I discovered that I had stumbled into an IMSA car with race winning history, I would have felt like I had just found some good fortune. That car is worth far more restored to its former racing glory. In fact, if you want to completely turn around what people here are saying about you, restore it. You clearly have the skills. Use your powers for good Batman!

What if I found James Dean's 550 in a garage, mangled and just as it was the day he died. Do I pull that 4 cam and put it in my sand rail? Or, do I send it off to the Peterson Museum or the Porsche Museum? One makes me an ass deserving of whatever people say, the other? Be the hero Adam. You can always find another car for the 904 project. In fact, I would personally help you find another car.

Posted by: RoadGlue Sep 7 2015, 02:16 PM

My last message applies to everyone.

Move on folks.

Posted by: Larmo63 Sep 7 2015, 02:56 PM

I'd love to see another IMSA car here restored back to it's former glory by a skilled person such as Adam!

It can be one more for Glenn's book.

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 7 2015, 03:46 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Sep 7 2015, 11:06 AM) *

I finally have found my very own Altec poster
Thanks Pete!
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sad.gif

I missed out on that poster just by a 30min. I better get to see it the next time we beer3.gif Pete sold it to you for a song beerchug.gif

Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 7 2015, 04:14 PM

So....
Bought the car from someone who didn't know the history ?
No mention of its' history was included in the advertisement ?
Now the history is being fed to you.
You won the friggin' lottery !
Hey, you step onto the stage, you love the drama.
You're in the wrong theatre.
You better be ready for the rotten tomatoes.

Posted by: gms Sep 8 2015, 05:44 PM

evilgrin.gif
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Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 8 2015, 05:47 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Sep 8 2015, 06:44 PM) *

evilgrin.gif
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smilie_pokal.gif I feel a road trip coming on. aktion035.gif

Posted by: gms Sep 8 2015, 05:54 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Sep 8 2015, 06:47 PM) *

smilie_pokal.gif I feel a road trip coming on. aktion035.gif

I think so

Posted by: r_towle Sep 8 2015, 06:08 PM

Fess up, where is that sled?

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 8 2015, 06:10 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 8 2015, 07:08 PM) *

Fess up, where is that sled?


confused24.gif shades.gif

Posted by: gms Sep 8 2015, 06:18 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 8 2015, 07:08 PM) *

Fess up, where is that sled?

too far away to talk about for now, but rest assured another is saved

Posted by: Chris Pincetich Sep 8 2015, 08:34 PM

interesting front flares... beerchug.gif

Posted by: porschetub Sep 8 2015, 08:50 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Sep 5 2015, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Sep 4 2015, 10:28 AM) *

This came today in the mail, it's cool.



Nice, how many millimeters are you going to have to chop out of it to "convert" it to a 904? smile.gif


Oh God sad.gif ,give it a rest...please.

Posted by: r_towle Mar 22 2016, 03:36 PM

What is the status of that black car in the poster?

Posted by: infraredcalvin Mar 23 2016, 12:01 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Sep 7 2015, 09:06 AM) *

I finally have found my very own Altec poster
Thanks Pete!
Attached Image

Glenn, if you haven't already, I can put you in touch with the current owner. The car came with a small binder of history, I think only fragments though, perhaps you have some of the missing pieces, and vice versa.

Posted by: gms Jul 19 2016, 07:30 PM

Another former IMSA racer back on the track last weekend!
This was a Canadian team's 914/6 that was raced from new in amateur series
and in IMSA between 1979 and 1982.
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Posted by: carr914 Jul 20 2016, 04:38 AM

What Canadian Team?

Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 20 2016, 07:11 AM

Nice!

Posted by: gms Jul 20 2016, 12:17 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 20 2016, 05:38 AM) *

What Canadian Team?

Dave Deacon and then Peter Aschenbrenner (under Alps Restoration)
car was run at 12 hours of Sebring 4 times and placed as high as 6th in class in 1980

Posted by: sixnotfour Jul 20 2016, 02:42 PM

Mosport 1979 driving.gif



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Posted by: carr914 Jul 20 2016, 07:43 PM

aktion035.gif

Posted by: carr914 Jul 21 2016, 07:43 PM

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Posted by: rgalla9146 Jul 22 2016, 06:10 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 21 2016, 09:43 PM) *

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Hey TC
Where / when was that parade ?

Posted by: vintage914racer Jul 23 2016, 07:08 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jul 22 2016, 04:10 AM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 21 2016, 09:43 PM) *

Attached Image


Hey TC
Where / when was that parade ?


That's the race car concours parade in downtown Elkhart Lake for the Big vintage weekend in July at Road America, the Weathertech International Challenge with Briand Redman presented by Hawk. Say that ten times fast.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Oct 31 2017, 01:42 PM

9140430754 just came up for sale on Pelican, $28,500

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/975937-1970-true-914-6-imsa-gtu-race-car-sale-vin-914-043-0754-a.html




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Posted by: rick 918-S Nov 1 2017, 09:37 AM

Nice fine! Someone should buy this before it gets ruined.

Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 1 2017, 12:55 PM

Ha, that's Paul Resnick's old car. Paul owned PAR for those who remember. I remember when I used to bring that car to PCA events when I was a kid before HE [edit] went IMSA racing with it.

Scott

Posted by: ConeDodger Nov 1 2017, 01:56 PM

One of the most amazing things about this thread is not just Glenn's knowledge, that is a given. But the people coming out of the woodwork who were there when the IMSA cars were running. Even had eyes on a car as it slid upside down through the grass!

To add to the background history on the Altec/Lansing poster. Her name is Cyndi Wood. She was Playboy Playmate of the Month in February of 1973 and the 1974 Playmate of the Year. She has a PhD in child psychology and practiced in the LA area. She had a number of TV and movie appearances as an actress, including a dancing playmate in Apocalypse Now. She is 67 years old. The car frequents the vintage race circuit as ive seen it several times. We should reach out to her agent and recreate the poster... biggrin.gif

Posted by: Mueller Nov 1 2017, 02:53 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 1 2017, 08:37 AM) *

Nice fine! Someone should buy this before it gets ruined.



KYB rear shocks so it is on it's way!

Too bad it had such boring livery on it when raced back in the day.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Nov 1 2017, 03:10 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Nov 1 2017, 11:56 AM) *

One of the most amazing things about this thread is not just Glenn's knowledge, that is a given. But the people coming out of the woodwork who were there when the IMSA cars were running. Even had eyes on a car as it slid upside down through the grass!

To add to the background history on the Altec/Lansing poster. Her name is Cyndi Wood. She was Playboy Playmate of the Month in February of 1973 and the 1974 Playmate of the Year. She has a PhD in child psychology and practiced in the LA area. She had a number of TV and movie appearances as an actress, including a dancing playmate in Apocalypse Now. She is 67 years old. The car frequents the vintage race circuit as ive seen it several times. We should reach out to her agent and recreate the poster... biggrin.gif

I've often thought of doing that with Lynda Carter and a green 911, she still looks pretty good.



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Posted by: ConeDodger Nov 1 2017, 03:24 PM

QUOTE(Unobtanium-inc @ Nov 1 2017, 06:10 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Nov 1 2017, 11:56 AM) *

One of the most amazing things about this thread is not just Glenn's knowledge, that is a given. But the people coming out of the woodwork who were there when the IMSA cars were running. Even had eyes on a car as it slid upside down through the grass!

To add to the background history on the Altec/Lansing poster. Her name is Cyndi Wood. She was Playboy Playmate of the Month in February of 1973 and the 1974 Playmate of the Year. She has a PhD in child psychology and practiced in the LA area. She had a number of TV and movie appearances as an actress, including a dancing playmate in Apocalypse Now. She is 67 years old. The car frequents the vintage race circuit as ive seen it several times. We should reach out to her agent and recreate the poster... biggrin.gif

I've often thought of doing that with Lynda Carter and a green 911, she still looks pretty good.


Concentrate Adam av-943.gif IMSA 914's! biggrin.gif

Posted by: gms Nov 1 2017, 03:30 PM

My friend Claus Mueller used to own this IMSA 914, he said it was a very nice car.
That is not hard to believe because it was built by Peter Dawes!
Before I bought my first IMSA 914 Claus said "Once you drive an IMSA 914 you will never think about racing a GT spec 914 again" he was spot on!

Thanks for the kind words Rob.

It later had some groovy orange strips Mike...
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Posted by: gms Nov 1 2017, 04:05 PM

had the old girl out last weekend tearing $hit up biggrin.gif
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Posted by: RoadGlue Nov 1 2017, 04:15 PM

piratenanner.gif driving.gif

Posted by: DM_2000 Nov 1 2017, 04:49 PM

QUOTE
Before I bought my first IMSA 914 Claus said "Once you drive an IMSA 914 you will never think about racing a GT spec 914 again" he was spot on!


The car in post 35 is no longer a 914, it is a purpose built race car that has the general body shape of a 914 . The front and rear suspension are wildly different than a 914, full or effectively full tube frame, and an engine displacement that was never in a stock 914.

However lots of fully developed race cars bear little mechanical resemblance to a factory built car.

Posted by: gms Nov 1 2017, 05:31 PM

QUOTE(DM_2000 @ Nov 1 2017, 05:49 PM) *

The car in post 35 is no longer a 914, it is a purpose built race car that has the general body shape of a 914 .

Actually it was a tube frame designed for the Fiero that was adapted to a 914 body.

Posted by: mb911 Nov 1 2017, 05:41 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Nov 1 2017, 02:05 PM) *

had the old girl out last weekend tearing $hit up biggrin.gif
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Even had my kids in it. Cool car for sureAttached Image

Posted by: gms Nov 1 2017, 08:55 PM

Ben, It was good to see you and the kids!

Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 2 2017, 05:20 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Nov 1 2017, 07:31 PM) *

QUOTE(DM_2000 @ Nov 1 2017, 05:49 PM) *

The car in post 35 is no longer a 914, it is a purpose built race car that has the general body shape of a 914 .

Actually it was a tube frame designed for the Fiero that was adapted to a 914 body.



Was the Altman car a Huffaker (or similar) Fiero chassis too?

Posted by: gms Nov 2 2017, 09:17 AM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Nov 2 2017, 06:20 AM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Nov 1 2017, 07:31 PM) *

QUOTE(DM_2000 @ Nov 1 2017, 05:49 PM) *

The car in post 35 is no longer a 914, it is a purpose built race car that has the general body shape of a 914 .

Actually it was a tube frame designed for the Fiero that was adapted to a 914 body.



Was the Altman car a Huffaker (or similar) Fiero chassis too?

Yes both Doug Arnao's and the Altman 914s were based on the plans from Huffaker.
I believe Doug Arnao's (bare frame) is for sale too.

Posted by: Steve Nov 2 2017, 10:21 AM

I thought this Brumos article from an old Porsche magazine, might be of interest.
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Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 1 2017, 07:04 AM

evilgrin.gif

Got this one Glenn?

Photographer grew up in the same neighborhood and we ran in the same circles. He’s Chris Foley’s cousin I think.

Probably BIR...


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Posted by: Mueller Dec 1 2017, 09:00 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Nov 1 2017, 03:41 PM) *

QUOTE(gms @ Nov 1 2017, 02:05 PM) *

had the old girl out last weekend tearing $hit up biggrin.gif
Attached Image



Even had my kids in it. Cool car for sureAttached Image



I see a big smile, you are in trouble!

Posted by: gms Dec 1 2017, 09:44 AM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 1 2017, 07:04 AM) *

evilgrin.gif

Got this one Glenn?

Photographer grew up in the same neighborhood and we ran in the same circles. He’s Chris Foley’s cousin I think.

Probably BIR...

Yup
Interesting story about that car...
A friend that I race with owned it for many years and it wasn't until he decided to sell the car that I learned it was one of the IMSA cars i was looking for. He had logbooks back to the 1970's.

Small world isn't it

Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 1 2017, 10:06 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Dec 1 2017, 12:44 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 1 2017, 07:04 AM) *

evilgrin.gif

Got this one Glenn?

Photographer grew up in the same neighborhood and we ran in the same circles. He’s Chris Foley’s cousin I think.

Probably BIR...

Yup
Interesting story about that car...
A friend that I race with owned it for many years and it wasn't until he decided to sell the car that I learned it was one of the IMSA cars i was looking for. He had logbooks back to the 1970's.

Small world isn't it


It is a small world. The photographer has been taking race pics since the ‘70’s. I’d bet he’d have some IMSA 914shots for you. Jerry Winker. He’s one of my FB friends if you want to look him up.

Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 29 2017, 10:47 AM

Glenn,
Tom Provasi refers to his car as an IMSA car. Zone 7 people. This is his wife’s 60th birthday present to him.


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Posted by: Minerva's 914 Dec 29 2017, 02:42 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Dec 29 2017, 06:17 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Dec 29 2017, 06:20 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Dec 29 2017, 06:22 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Dec 29 2017, 06:25 PM

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Posted by: Edward Blume Dec 29 2017, 07:09 PM

Sandy and Tom are really nice people. Is he doing something with RRVI this year?

Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 29 2017, 08:28 PM

QUOTE(Edward Blume @ Dec 29 2017, 10:09 PM) *

Sandy and Tom are really nice people. Is he doing something with RRVI this year?


Tom and Sandy live in Reno now but I’m sure they’ll still get around everywhere...

Posted by: Dave_Darling Dec 30 2017, 04:16 PM

I remember when Tom and Sandy bought that car. (The "Orange Crate".) It was white at the time, looked like gel-coat. But it did have an IMSA history; he has the documentation of when and where it ran.

He sold his BRIGHT PURPLE four-cylinder racer to another local, John.

--DD

Posted by: gms Dec 30 2017, 04:30 PM

Tom & Sandy's 914/6 has been racing since 1972, it was last raced in IMSA in 1981.
This is the car formally known as the Orange Crate. They restored the car in about 2014, all of its former liveries were still present under the orange paint.

Posted by: flyer86d Dec 30 2017, 04:38 PM

This is a great thread for those of us who were there. Keep it coming!

Charlie

Posted by: Steve Dec 31 2017, 10:49 AM

My favorite has always been the Garretson enterprises car. I used to visit there shop and bought a lot of parts from them when I lived in Sunnyvale. They went out of business many years ago. I heard it was income tax related. Where is that car now?

Posted by: gms Dec 31 2017, 10:56 AM

QUOTE(Steve @ Dec 31 2017, 10:49 AM) *

My favorite has always been the Garretson enterprises car. I used to visit there shop and bought a lot of parts from them when I lived in Sunnyvale. They went out of business many years ago. I heard it was income tax related. Where is that car now?

The black IMSA championship car is restored and located in FL the red autocross car is being savagely dismembers for an ill conceived 904 conversion.

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 31 2017, 11:32 AM

http://www.autoarch.com/Porsche914-6-1.html


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Posted by: Larmo63 Dec 31 2017, 12:31 PM

I nominate Glenn for the "Comment of the Year" award.


Posted by: RoadGlue Dec 31 2017, 12:33 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 31 2017, 10:31 AM) *

I nominate Glenn for the "Comment of the Year" award.


agree.gif

beerchug.gif

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 31 2017, 12:42 PM

Now I understand the 'furor'. Interesting....

What's the value of a true IMSA 914 these days?

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 31 2017, 02:32 PM

QUOTE(RoadGlue @ Dec 31 2017, 11:33 AM) *

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 31 2017, 10:31 AM) *

I nominate Glenn for the "Comment of the Year" award.


agree.gif

beerchug.gif


"the red autocross car is being savagely dismembers for an ill conceived 904 conversion."
agree.gif beerchug.gif


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Dec 31 2017, 03:20 PM

Check the latest progress. Advanced metal shaping.

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Dec 31 2017, 04:24 PM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Dec 31 2017, 12:42 PM) *

Now I understand the 'furor'. Interesting....

What's the value of a true IMSA 914 these days?


Way more than that " ill conceived 904 conversion" will ever be worth.

Posted by: 914_teener Dec 31 2017, 05:26 PM

So much for the furor......

What about lust....

Will there be a Cindi Woods redux?


Posted by: Larmo63 Dec 31 2017, 06:15 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 31 2017, 10:31 AM) *

I nominate Glenn for the "Comment of the Year" award.


He got it in right under the time limit too. smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 31 2017, 09:16 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 03:20 PM) *

Check the latest progress. Advanced metal shaping.


agree.gif smash.gif sawzall-smiley.gif WTF.gif

Posted by: carr914 Jan 1 2018, 08:34 AM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 04:20 PM) *

Check the latest progress. Advanced metal shaping.



https://postimages.org/


av-943.gif

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Jan 1 2018, 12:14 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 31 2017, 12:31 PM) *

I nominate Glenn for the "Comment of the Year" award.

agree.gif

Posted by: Cracker Jan 1 2018, 01:46 PM

While I agree completely with Glenn...it is a bit bizarre that the same sentiment is met such resistance when uttered by other members. It is such a shame the car met its end in such a way...

Tony

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Dec 31 2017, 01:31 PM) *

I nominate Glenn for the "Comment of the Year" award.

Posted by: 914Timo Jan 1 2018, 01:57 PM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Dec 31 2017, 11:20 PM) *

Check the latest progress. Advanced metal shaping.


agree.gif Finally after 36 pages biggrin.gif

Posted by: ConeDodger Jan 5 2018, 12:05 PM

Not an IMSA 914 but a Racing 914. Taken at Brainerd International Raceway in the 1970’s. All Ginthered up!


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Posted by: gms Jan 5 2018, 12:23 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jan 5 2018, 12:05 PM) *

Not an IMSA 914 but a Racing 914. Taken at Brainerd International Raceway in the 1970’s. All Ginthered up!

That WAS one of the original Ginther Roadsters, unfortunately it was crashed and scrapped at Black Hawk Farms Raceway in the mid '70. Stefan did well in the car with at least one trip to the SCCA runoffs.

Posted by: SKL1 Jan 5 2018, 12:29 PM

I'll have to ask a friend I see at various C&C in the Scottsdale area more about his IMSA racing days. He has his original owner blue 914-6 that has a 2.8 engine in it from his IMSA racing days way back when. His 6 is restored and beautiful and that engine sounds VERY nice!

Posted by: gms Jan 5 2018, 12:35 PM

QUOTE(SKL1 @ Jan 5 2018, 12:29 PM) *

I'll have to ask a friend I see at various C&C in the Scottsdale area more about his IMSA racing days. He has his original owner blue 914-6 that has a 2.8 engine in it from his IMSA racing days way back when. His 6 is restored and beautiful and that engine sounds VERY nice!

If it is Ray Hendrick then I have his old IMSA 914

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 5 2018, 03:14 PM

I see that C Production 914-6 had Apollo Plastic on the side valence. I think they also ran a 911 Targa (with a cut-down windscreen ala Gunther) back in the 70s. Love those old pics from the 70s!


Posted by: SKL1 Jan 5 2018, 03:23 PM

Yes, it is Ray. He also has some other very nice vehicles... always interesting to see what he and/or his wife show up in!

Posted by: ConeDodger Apr 11 2018, 09:17 PM

Glenn,
I believe this an earlier photo of the white car I posted a few pages back...


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Apr 11 2018, 09:58 PM

Was Paul Resnicks ( RIP ... PAR Porsche) 914 an IMSA car ?

Posted by: gms Apr 12 2018, 08:51 AM

Rob,
You are correct, it is the Grave's car probably early 1980's. I never noticed the rear reflector before.

Posted by: stownsen914 Apr 12 2018, 11:49 AM

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Apr 11 2018, 11:58 PM) *

Was Paul Resnicks ( RIP ... PAR Porsche) 914 an IMSA car ?


Raul did run the 914 in a few IMSA races. I recall seeing Paul at a few PCA events with a fast, widebody 914 back in the 70s. I assume he continued developing the car and eventually raced it.

Scott

Posted by: gms Apr 12 2018, 02:18 PM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Apr 12 2018, 12:49 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Apr 11 2018, 11:58 PM) *

Was Paul Resnicks ( RIP ... PAR Porsche) 914 an IMSA car ?


Paul did run the 914 in a few IMSA races. I recall seeing Paul at a few PCA events with a fast, widebody 914 back in the 70s. I assume he continued developing the car and eventually raced it.

Scott

That car was on an earlier post
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=262758&view=findpost&p=2543930

Posted by: gms Apr 12 2018, 02:21 PM

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I did finally get this car home, here is the story
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=326515

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 15 2018, 03:44 PM

With the newest acquisition looks like your going to need help getting these cars back in operation. assimilate.gif smash.gif welder.gif beerchug.gif

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 8 2019, 08:01 AM

SCCA results from back in the day...


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 8 2019, 07:05 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Feb 8 2019, 09:01 AM) *

SCCA results from back in the day...



Steven Behr, Fort Lee NJ ! 1970
I was twenty years old.
I grew up in the next town to Fort Lee
There was a 427 Cobra in Ft lee at the time. Owned by Clem Hoppe
Never heard of Steven Behr or a 914 6
At the time I had a Beetle.....I think.
Plenty of 'future' famous names in that roster.

Thank you Glen
You keep things interesting.

Posted by: maf914 Feb 9 2019, 08:03 AM

Rob/ConeDodger,

Thanks for posting those results. There are some big names in those lists.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 9 2019, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(maf914 @ Feb 9 2019, 11:03 AM) *

Rob/ConeDodger,

Thanks for posting those results. There are some big names in those lists.


I know! They were just boys with toys back then. evilgrin.gif

Posted by: 9146GUY Feb 10 2019, 10:41 AM

Boy does this thread bring back memories. I just saw this thread and the car posted in #106, the yellow #54, was a car that I knew very well. I bought that car from Dave White, prepped it for the Daytona 24 in 1976 and co-drove with Hal Sahlman and Alex Job. I was working at the Porsche dealer in West Palm then and we put the whole deal together in a two month time frame. We ran Goodyear street tires and ran the entire race on one set. That's a story in itself.
Then comes along post #107 that shows the Altman 914-6. That picture is from the the last year of the Columbus 500 in Ohio. Mark & Gary co-drove my 914-6 at Elkhart Lake and I co-drove with them in their 911 in the last 6 hour makes race at Watkins Glen. That 914 was a full tube frame car that they built from a set of plans (drawings) that they obtained. They had major teething problems with the car. I don't know whatever happened to that car. Their 911 went to Jay Kojeller in Toledo.
Great memories.

Posted by: Cracker Feb 10 2019, 10:59 AM

Thanks for sharing... beerchug.gif

T

QUOTE(9146GUY @ Feb 10 2019, 11:41 AM) *

Boy does this thread bring back memories.


Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 10 2019, 11:40 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19420

Is this your 914, or someone else ??
Great memories


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Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 10 2019, 01:09 PM

your van ?


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Posted by: gms Feb 10 2019, 01:44 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19420 is none other than Steve Southard. He has been racing for a while now and most interesting to this crowd he campaigned a 914/6 for many years in IMSA.
Steve also owned and raced one of the original 6 Ginther Roadsters.
I picked up some parts from Steve last year and ended up talking with him for hours!
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Posted by: gms Feb 10 2019, 01:48 PM

I bought the GT bumper from the blue IMSA 914/6 a few years back
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Posted by: 914forme Feb 10 2019, 10:08 PM

Wow I have not talked to Steve in years, glad to know he is still hanging in there.

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 11 2019, 07:45 PM

Great thread! aktion035.gif

Posted by: My 914 Feb 11 2019, 08:46 PM

Its nice to look at those race results, look at the pictures and read some of the great stories that go along with them.

Posted by: Blue6 Feb 11 2019, 09:16 PM

Glenn, thanks for this thread, always educational. On another note, are we going to see your face again at Phoenix Club show and swap in a couple of weeks?

Posted by: gms Feb 11 2019, 09:18 PM

QUOTE(Blue6 @ Feb 11 2019, 09:16 PM) *

Glenn, thanks for this thread, always educational. On another note, are we going to see your face again at Phoenix Club show and swap in a couple of weeks?

I am going to try and make it but my projects are taking away my free time
biggrin.gif

Posted by: Larmo63 Feb 11 2019, 11:54 PM

Dang, it is that time of year again. There are plenty of events occurring that weekend.

Check out all of these events coming up:

https://www.lalitandtoyshow.com/related-events.html

Posted by: 9146GUY Feb 12 2019, 10:16 AM

Sixnotfour

You asked if about the yellow van....Nope

As for the spin I don't know who was driving at the time but I can tell you about a joke we were having during the race. There were several cars that Goodyear supplied street radial tires for us to run the race on. Our car was the only one that hadn't changed tires when the rain started. One of our drivers, Hal Sahlman, came from off shore power boat racing. So I made a comment to him that he would be the driver during the rain because he was the one with all the experience on top of water. Not saying it was him driving at the time but.......
BTW we finished the race on the original set of tires we started on. Try that today.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 12 2019, 06:40 PM

972 Road Atlanta Runoffs


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 12 2019, 06:45 PM

The Runoffs were regularly held at RA...this is entry into T5.

T

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Feb 12 2019, 07:40 PM) *

972 Road Atlanta Runoffs


Posted by: gms Feb 13 2019, 09:46 AM

Altec Lansing car
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Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 13 2019, 04:00 PM

so this is was the yellow/ blue 914


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Posted by: Greg914-6GT Feb 14 2019, 01:34 AM

I stumbled upon this car on Long Island, NY and bought it. The owner died, and his kids didn't know it's race history. It was built exploiting the upgrades you listed. Motor 2.8 RSR spec with rare mechanical injection, Bigger 930 brakes, Body mods etc. It last raced in PCA probably in the late 80s-early 90s. If someone knows any history, please let me know. It was on display at the Porsche Experience Center for a couple of years. It shared display space with the Orange 914-8 for months. It had a giant rear wing and front spoiler I removed.
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Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 14 2019, 06:09 AM

QUOTE(Greg914-6GT @ Feb 14 2019, 02:34 AM) *

I stumbled upon this car on Long Island, NY and bought it. The owner died, and his kids didn't know it's race history. It was built exploiting the upgrades you listed. Motor 2.8 RSR spec with rare mechanical injection, Bigger 930 brakes, Body mods etc. It last raced in PCA probably in the late 80s-early 90s. If someone knows any history, please let me know. It was on display at the Porsche Experience Center for a couple of years. It shared display space with the Orange 914-8 for months. It had a giant rear wing and front spoiler I removed.
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Deceased NY owner ?
Paul Resnick ?

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 14 2019, 06:50 AM

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=230797&st=0

Posted by: 9146GUY Feb 14 2019, 09:15 AM

Back in the day nobody made bodywork for 914's so we had to make our own. The cars went through many different looks because of this. This is what the car looked like at Daytona in 1972.Attached Image
Then the bodywork was slightly changed for the 1976 Daytona 24.Attached Image
Then IMSA allowed 15" wide rear wheels on the cars. The car shown in the previous post (Thunderbird Swap Shop) was a rushed together set of fender flairs that probably added 100 lbs or more to the weight. I then built a new set of flair molds and made the new flairs. One race later they were no longer legal as the rules changed to 12" wheels. We also changed the number with IMSA to 40 from 54
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So I modified the molds and now had flairs that just covered the 12" wheels. Attached Image
Daytona 24 in 1979
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If you notice the lights were also changed from using the pop up's to mounted in the spoiler. When the headlights were put up for night driving we lost a bunch of RPM and speed on the back straight. On the average of 8-10 MPH if memory serves me. Also back then there was no bus stop or chicane in the back straight. What a rush going from a level track to 32 degrees banking in a couple of seconds at speed.

Posted by: Cracker Feb 14 2019, 09:27 AM

Very cool...I am not challenging what they are but no picture above has the appearance of 15" wide wheels on the car. I have had a set on one of my GT40's and they are huge. I can't imagine them on a 914...wow! Tire technology was a fraction of what we have today but still - mechanical grip would have been amazing.

T

Posted by: 9146GUY Feb 14 2019, 09:40 AM

The picture of #40 in red was at the Daytona finale that year. We opted to run the 12" stuff instead of the 15" stuff to see what we needed for the upcoming 24Hr race. Handling, gearing, speed are all influenced by the tire size so we went the way we did.
Rear spoilers and "wings" fall into that category also.

Posted by: Jaymann Feb 24 2019, 03:33 PM

Hey:What ever became of Wayne Bakers 914 4 he called the school bus???? Does anyone have a picture of that car?

Posted by: Dion Feb 24 2019, 10:28 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1785 , found some more pics. I’m not sure if I sent them to you already.
Nevertheless here is some “analog” pics circa the big 80’s. aktion035.gif Pocono Raceway.


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Posted by: gms Feb 24 2019, 10:48 PM

QUOTE(Jaymann @ Feb 24 2019, 03:33 PM) *

Hey:What ever became of Wayne Bakers 914 4 he called the school bus???? Does anyone have a picture of that car?

Yes the car is still on the vintage race circuit



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Posted by: gms Feb 24 2019, 10:53 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Feb 24 2019, 10:28 PM) *

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1785 , found some more pics. I’m not sure if I sent them to you already.
Nevertheless here is some “analog” pics circa the big 80’s. aktion035.gif Pocono Raceway.

thanks for sharing @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2766

Posted by: campbellcj Feb 25 2019, 09:17 AM

I'm dating myself but here are some pics of Wayne's car from a 2001 PCA SDR autocross. I don't recall meeting him myself but man there were a lot of 914s active at events and driving on the road back then, compared to nowadays.

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Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 25 2019, 11:15 AM

first.gif


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Posted by: Dave_Darling Feb 25 2019, 05:25 PM

QUOTE(campbellcj @ Feb 25 2019, 07:17 AM) *

I'm dating myself but here are some pics of Wayne's car from a 2001 PCA SDR autocross.


He brought that car to the inaugural "California Challenge" out in Bakersfield. It wasn't running well; I loaned him some tools while he was messing with it.

I saw the car again at Rennsport late last year. I have some pics around somewhere. Wayne was off getting tires or some such, so I talked to his buddy (mechanic?) for a bit.

--DD

Posted by: campbellcj Feb 26 2019, 08:13 AM

Here's one from RR V (2015) -

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The Altec Lansing car at the 2010 Historics -

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Posted by: campbellcj Feb 26 2019, 08:17 AM

From RR VI (2018) -

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Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 26 2019, 08:57 AM

Current drivers..... JIMMY HENDRIX ?

Posted by: stownsen914 Feb 27 2019, 05:34 PM

QUOTE(Greg914-6GT @ Feb 14 2019, 02:34 AM) *

I stumbled upon this car on Long Island, NY and bought it. The owner died, and his kids didn't know it's race history. It was built exploiting the upgrades you listed. Motor 2.8 RSR spec with rare mechanical injection, Bigger 930 brakes, Body mods etc. It last raced in PCA probably in the late 80s-early 90s. If someone knows any history, please let me know. It was on display at the Porsche Experience Center for a couple of years. It shared display space with the Orange 914-8 for months. It had a giant rear wing and front spoiler I removed.



Responding a question from a few posts back ... I remember a car similar to the one in the pic. I saw it in the late 1990's at Lime Rock I think. It did have a large wing with posts mounted to the rear decklid. I spent some time looking at it since it appeared nicely done, and was pretty quick too. Name might have been Bob Glasser or something like that.

Posted by: stownsen914 Feb 27 2019, 05:37 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Feb 24 2019, 11:28 PM) *

, found some more pics. I’m not sure if I sent them to you already.
Nevertheless here is some “analog” pics circa the big 80’s. aktion035.gif Pocono Raceway.



First pic from Dion's post looks like it shows Doug Arnao's Fiero-based 914 and possibly the Altman 911. Nice!

Posted by: 9146GUY Feb 28 2019, 06:50 AM

It could be the Altman 911. I co drove with them there. If that's the year the monsoon hit the track about 3/4 thru the race. You couldn't see more than 3 feet in front of you. They did have some brown trim on the car but I don't specifically remember along the side. Oh well....the memory does fade after a while

Posted by: stownsen914 Feb 28 2019, 11:58 AM

Some better pics of Altman's cars (including the 914 too) => http://www.racingsportscars.com/driver/photo/Mark-Altman-USA.html

Posted by: jfort Mar 5 2019, 12:24 PM

Jay Kjoller related to me:

When Pontiac came out with the Fiero, part of the marketing strategy was to get privateers to build their own Fiero racers and to that end the factory developed a race chassis and made the blueprints available to anyone who wanted to buy them for a very reasonable price. The Altman brothers figured they could take the Fiero drawings and adapt it to the 914 body. Mark and Gary were pretty good chassis builders and mechanics but they weren't engineers and a direct copy of Fiero to 914 didn't work. Jay crewed for them at the Sebring race and he seemed to remember there being a discussion with a real racecar engineer who was pointing out all the ways the Fiero design didn't work on their car: things like roll centers, camber curves, etc.
Sometime after IMSA banned the 914 from competition Jay was talking to Gary and Jay asked what they were going to do with their car and he told Jay they had a buyer from Central America and that's the last he heard of it.

Posted by: Type 47 Mar 11 2019, 09:43 AM

https://s139.photobucket.com/user/photoc6z/media/123329_zps79d93506.jpg.html
IMSA Road Atlanta 1981ish

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Mar 22 2019, 02:45 PM

biggrin.gif


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Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Mar 22 2019, 02:47 PM

biggrin.gif


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Posted by: gms Mar 22 2019, 04:54 PM

QUOTE(Jetsetsurfshop @ Mar 22 2019, 03:47 PM) *

biggrin.gif

the was actually Hotchkis, Kirby and Jones

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