Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Solo Brake Bleeding
Posted by: RobW Sep 10 2015, 10:44 AM
I have a spongy brake pedal that firms up upon pumping. No visible leaks, I think the brakes just need bleeding.
Any good how to descriptions, especially how I can do it by myself? What equipment is needed to fill fluid?
Thanks,
Rob
Posted by: Martin Baker Sep 10 2015, 12:25 PM
Here is the method I use, to bleed brakes alone, or with friends. Caliper up, force the air the way it wants to travel. They are a bit pricey, but worth it. It saves time as well.
http://www.brakebleeder.com/product-category/brake-bleeders/
Posted by: aircooledtechguy Sep 10 2015, 12:29 PM
A great little tool that is normally available at FLAP is this kit by Lisle:
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-19200-Brake-Bleeding-Kit/dp/B0009OMY9M
Keeps you from making a mess and allows you to bleed by yourself. You can use this in conjunction with a set of speed bleeders (one at each brake):
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search_2014.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=POR&Context_make=POR&please_wait=N&LastVisited_input=&Previous_Section=&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&description=speed+bleeders&I1.x=0&I1.y=0
For client cars, I use the Lisle one man bleeder in conjunction with a power bleeder and it makes quick work of bleeding but that may be a bit much for occasional use:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search_2014.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=POR&Context_make=&please_wait=N&LastVisited_input=&Previous_Section=&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&make=POR&description=power+bleeder&SearchButtonGo.x=0&SearchButtonGo.y=0
Posted by: Bartlett 914 Sep 10 2015, 12:42 PM
When I bleed brakes, I place the plastic tube moving vertical for some distance. It makes it easier to see bubbles. The brake fluid in the tube helps prevent air from going back into the system. I usually have help but I think this may work solo.
Posted by: andrewb Sep 10 2015, 12:47 PM
I use a jack handle or a piece of wood and a piece of clear hose. No expensive kit, no assistant. (Probably no friends either 
)
1. Get a piece of wood (say 2" x 2") about 18" long (or a jack handle) and position the drivers seat so that the distance from the brake pedal to the front of the seat base is slightly less than the length of the piece of wood.
2. Now slide the seat forward another couple of clicks so that when you wedge the wood between the seat base and the pedal it applies pressure to the pedal. Don't put the wood in place just yet.
3. Starting with the caliper furthest from the master cylinder, assuming you're doing all 4, undo the bleed nipple and make sure it turns freely - then nip it up gently. Put a ring spanner on the nipple and then the clear hose onto the nipple with the other end into a container.
4. Put one end of the piece of wood on the brake pedal and push it until the other end is wedged against the front of the seat.
5. Open the bleed nipple a fraction - it will spit some air out and maybe a bit of fluid. Quickly nip the nipple back up.
6. The piece of wood will no longer be tightly wedged because you've released the pressure that was holding the pedal up. Remove the wood, allowing the pedal to come back up, and then wedge the wood back in place as before. Repeat stage 5.
Each time more fluid and less air bubbles will appear in the clear hose. Once you have clear fluid and no bubbles give it 2 or 3 more cycles to be sure and then you're done. Tighten the nipple properly and then do the other 3 in order of decreasing distance from the master cylinder.
Don't forget to keep topping up the reservoir.
I've been doing it this way for over 30 years starting with a '67 Beetle and I'm still doing it on newish cars with ABS. Works every time.
Andrew
Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Sep 10 2015, 12:59 PM
Speedbleeders, a length of clear tubing and a container for the effluent. That's all that's needed.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Sep 10 2015, 01:57 PM
Posted by: dlee6204 Sep 10 2015, 02:11 PM
Nothing special. I run clear tubing from the caliper directly to the master cylinder and just keep pumping.
Posted by: kupcar Sep 10 2015, 03:53 PM
I've used a Mighty Vac pressure bleeder for years. It's simple and cheap. I think under $30.
Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 10 2015, 03:59 PM
I have used this for 20+ years!
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 10 2015, 04:17 PM
Hey Rob - If all you need is a body for assistance I can come over and lend a foot.
Michael
Posted by: RobW Sep 10 2015, 04:43 PM
Hey Rob - If all you need is a body for assistance I can come over and lend a foot.
Michael
Thanks, much appreciated. I have a nice set of legs at home that can help me, but if I get denied I'll let you know.
Posted by: RobW Sep 10 2015, 04:44 PM
Thanks for all the input guys! I'll see what I have and give it a go.
Posted by: Kansas 914 Sep 10 2015, 05:02 PM
Nothing special. I run clear tubing from the caliper directly to the master cylinder and just keep pumping.
I use a version of this but have four long lines. One from each caliper back to the fluid reservoir and pump until I have moved all new fluid to the calipers. Just eliminating bubbles helps but one should move at least 8 ounces through each caliper, or so I was told by a wise man.
Posted by: RobW Sep 10 2015, 05:19 PM
How much brake fluid should I buy then? and what type of brake fluid is ideal? does it matter?
Posted by: r_towle Sep 10 2015, 06:55 PM
How much brake fluid should I buy then? and what type of brake fluid is ideal? does it matter?
If you have never changed your brake fluid, it may be in your best interest to do it.
Couple of quarts will do it.
DOT4
Add red food coloring dye.
Pump till it comes out red on all four corners.
Start with the passenger rear, then drivers rear, then passenger front, then drivers front.
Next year use clear fluid, or use blue food coloring dye.
Speed bleeders and a hose into a bottle will save you relationship issues.
A pressure bleeder like Jeff posted will make the whole project a dream.
Rich
Posted by: smj Sep 10 2015, 09:44 PM
I've used the Motive pressure bleeders for years. You can probably get a firmer pedal with good execution of the two person methods, but it was good enough when I was doing 20+ DE days in a season and lacked a helper..
With that setup, a liter was generally enough to flush a 944S - might need less with the 914. It was certainly enough for my /4 the other day.
And I would alternate between Ate Super Blue and Ate Gold (Typ 200) fluid for the kind of easy visual check Rich mentioned, but I think I heard/read somewhere that only gold/yellow fluid was legal now in the States... (Ah, http://hooniverse.com/2013/08/16/braking-news-ate-super-blue-deemed-illegal-for-us-distribution/ - though I see links for it from US retailers via Google Search)
I've still got the original 17mm master cylinder in the /4, and I'd describe the performance as: Meh. If bleeding doesn't help, check the MC and lines - and you probably already know that upgrading to the 19mm MC is very popular...
Posted by: yeahmag Sep 10 2015, 10:10 PM
Love my Motiv...
Posted by: infraredcalvin Sep 10 2015, 10:13 PM
Do not route old fluid back into resovoir, it defeats the purpose. Submerge the end of the hose in some fluid, that way when all the bubbles are out and the pedal is released it sucks back fluid vs air.
Start with furthest caliper from the MC and work your way back to closest. Donot let the resovoir go empty and suck air. If you've never done it before enlist a helper and expect to go through it a few times.
I've always had great luck with the motive bleeder mentioned by Jeff, well worth the $50.
Posted by: mgp4591 Sep 10 2015, 11:29 PM
If you don't find any air, you may have a binding pad or sticking caliper piston- it feels the same as air and reacts about the same with less that ideal braking, maybe even pulling to the opposite side as the offending unit. Good luck- reading through the other comments you should be able to fix your problem.
Posted by: kconway Sep 11 2015, 11:49 AM
Rob...FYI,
The fluid in that system is "newish"....never seen the road. All the components are new/reconditioned that I bought from either Pelican or from Eric at PMB.
Kev
How much brake fluid should I buy then? and what type of brake fluid is ideal? does it matter?
Posted by: RobW Sep 12 2015, 05:18 AM
Rob...FYI,
The fluid in that system is "newish"....never seen the road. All the components are new/reconditioned that I bought from either Pelican or from Eric at PMB.
Kev
How much brake fluid should I buy then? and what type of brake fluid is ideal? does it matter?
Cool. I was hoping you'd comment. I'm hoping I can get the system burping.
Posted by: DBCooper Sep 12 2015, 08:27 AM
There's a CSOB old farmer's way of pressurizing your brake system. Cut an innertube around the valve stem so it's the same size as the gasket in your brake master's reservoir. Drill a hole in the reservoir cap so the valve stem sticks out and put it back on the reservoir. Remove the schrader from the stem, put on a bicycle hand pump and give it a little pressure. Bleed from the furthest back to the M/C, giving it a few pumps and checking the fluid level between each wheel. Cheap, easy, using stuff you probably already have in your garage. And when you put the cap back on the valve stem it's all sealed, so you can leave it in place for the next time you need it.
Posted by: kconway Sep 12 2015, 08:30 AM
Rob...FYI,
The fluid in that system is "newish"....never seen the road. All the components are new/reconditioned that I bought from either Pelican or from Eric at PMB.
Kev
How much brake fluid should I buy then? and what type of brake fluid is ideal? does it matter?
Cool. I was hoping you'd comment. I'm hoping I can get the system burping.
I think I left the equalizer in the circuit. May want to look there as a possible place where you've got trapped air.
, , on it.
I used the blue stuff. Maybe change to the red?
Kev
Posted by: RobW Sep 21 2015, 04:15 PM
So I'm ready to roll with the bleed.
Another question:
First push on the brakes, he pedal goes to the floor. Pump it a couple times and it firms up and holds. Let it off, pause a second, and it goes back to the floor. Do I have air trapped in the Master Cylinder? or is it at the brake bias or further in the lines.
Seems to me if I have air further up, I'm going to be bleeding the brakes for awhile.
Posted by: 914Mike Sep 21 2015, 06:17 PM
So I'm ready to roll with the bleed.
Another question:
First push on the brakes, he pedal goes to the floor. Pump it a couple times and it firms up and holds. Let it off, pause a second, and it goes back to the floor. Do I have air trapped in the Master Cylinder? or is it at the brake bias or further in the lines.
Seems to me if I have air further up, I'm going to be bleeding the brakes for awhile.
Well, that's the way it is sometimes. Go until you either run out of bubbles. or run out of fluid...
I just ran 2 qts. through my truck to make sure the 16 year old fluid was all out. Never heard of using food coloring. Is it safe? I think I'd want to flush un-dyed fluid through after, just to make sure it was all out, personally.
Posted by: C-Ya MK Sep 21 2015, 08:37 PM
A couple of months ago I replaced my mc and I bled the brakes 4 separate times. Lots of patience and diligence. Perfect now
Mike
Posted by: relentless Sep 22 2015, 09:50 AM
I'm just in the process of bleeding my brakes after replacing the calipers, lines, rotors, etc. with PMB Performance parts. I purchased two quarts of their brake fluid, and a vacuum bleeder from Eastwood. I also purchased some clear vinyl line from Home Depot that fit tightly over the bleed valve. I was able to use the clear tubing in place of the adapters on the Eastwood vacuum bleeder as I didn't like the fit. I was able to crack the bleed valve a quarter turn and then pull fluid until I had the new fluid coming out. Once I was satisfied with that I used the technique on the PMB site to use clear line taped up to the window above the master cylinder and gravity bleed the calipers.
I'll try to post some pictures later.
Posted by: RobW Sep 22 2015, 01:31 PM
I'm just in the process of bleeding my brakes after replacing the calipers, lines, rotors, etc. with PMB Performance parts. I purchased two quarts of their brake fluid, and a vacuum bleeder from Eastwood. I also purchased some clear vinyl line from Home Depot that fit tightly over the bleed valve. I was able to use the clear tubing in place of the adapters on the Eastwood vacuum bleeder as I didn't like the fit. I was able to crack the bleed valve a quarter turn and then pull fluid until I had the new fluid coming out. Once I was satisfied with that I used the technique on the PMB site to use clear line taped up to the window above the master cylinder and gravity bleed the calipers.
I'll try to post some pictures later.
Cool. Love to see it.
Posted by: Markl Sep 28 2015, 11:17 PM
There's a CSOB old farmer's way of pressurizing your brake system. Cut an innertube around the valve stem so it's the same size as the gasket in your brake master's reservoir. Drill a hole in the reservoir cap so the valve stem sticks out and put it back on the reservoir. Remove the schrader from the stem, put on a bicycle hand pump and give it a little pressure. Bleed from the furthest back to the M/C, giving it a few pumps and checking the fluid level between each wheel. Cheap, easy, using stuff you probably already have in your garage. And when you put the cap back on the valve stem it's all sealed, so you can leave it in place for the next time you need it.
I used an original windshield washer tube, connected to the spare. and an old VW reservoir cap with an empty Schraeder valve installed. Valve cap on the valve when you're done. Simple, cheap, toss it in your trunk.
Posted by: relentless Sep 29 2015, 10:51 AM
The pictures I promised are in my new brake thread:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=262589
Posted by: colingreene Sep 29 2015, 06:15 PM
i would not use food dye.
It often is water based.
Posted by: steuspeed Sep 29 2015, 07:40 PM
Nothing special. I run clear tubing from the caliper directly to the master cylinder and just keep pumping.
I use a version of this but have four long lines. One from each caliper back to the fluid reservoir and pump until I have moved all new fluid to the calipers. Just eliminating bubbles helps but one should move at least 8 ounces through each caliper, or so I was told by a wise man.
Wouldn't you just be pumping the old fluid back into the reservoir?
Posted by: jimkelly Oct 11 2015, 07:51 AM
I gave speed bleeders a try and like them 
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=266553&st=0#entry2250544
Posted by: RobW Oct 11 2015, 07:54 AM
I gave speed bleeders a try and like them
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=266553&st=0#entry2250544
I saw that! Nice work.
Going to have to make the conversion! Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)