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Posted by: stevegm Sep 13 2015, 05:25 PM

I admit - not all of my ideas are great ones. I am not sure where this one lands. But, here it is . . . .

Anybody interested in a build (fun) challenge contest? The idea is to get 2, 3, or 4 people who are planning to do their 914 build over the next year. And track all of the builds at the same time - in a thread and in Fourteener Magazine.

I don't know if there even needs to be a "winner" per se. But, if so, I am sure we can come up with some swag and/or parts, etc. for the "winner."

The main thing is I think it would be fun to track a few builds simultaneously.

Anybody interested?

Posted by: mepstein Sep 13 2015, 05:54 PM

Great idea. The magazine can pay for the builds. Like the reality/car shows. I'm in.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 13 2015, 06:14 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 13 2015, 07:54 PM)

Great idea. The magazine can pay for the builds. Like the reality/car shows. I'm in.

Posted by: theleschyouknow Sep 13 2015, 07:03 PM

I will officially announce my





search for sponsors!
anybody out there wanna fund my rebuild I am in!

this is really a no brainer for some of our member vendors

-all (95ish%) original 73 2.0 180k (but freshly rebuilt by the po at 90k-ish!)
Cali car no (known) rust issues!
really just needs a thorough engine out cleaning/once over/tasteful upgrades/color sanding/...

so any body out there willing to step up pm me I'll gladly put your stickers on my car and would be available for promotional opportunities!


cjl

Posted by: Cracker Sep 13 2015, 07:14 PM

The first adjustment would be change it from "over a year" to "a five-year" build competition...most seem to take that long.

Tony

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 13 2015, 07:31 PM

Just started the rough in pulls on my 6. I have most of the parts. Fortunately I own a Celette. Unfortunately I don't have the second gen towers. I contacted Celette to rent the original fixtures. I was told they scrapped the original fixtures. I have to purchase 6k worth of second gen towers then rent the tops for about another 1000-1500. That ain't happening any time soon...

Posted by: stevegm Sep 13 2015, 07:36 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 13 2015, 09:31 PM)

Just started the rough in pulls on my 6. I have most of the parts. Fortunately I own a Celette. Unfortunately I don't have the second gen towers. I contacted Celette to rent the original fixtures. I was told they scrapped the original fixtures. I have to purchase 6k worth of second gen towers then rent the tops for about another 1000-1500. That ain't happening any time soon...

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 13 2015, 07:43 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 13 2015, 08:36 PM)

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 13 2015, 09:31 PM)

Just started the rough in pulls on my 6. I have most of the parts. Fortunately I own a Celette. Unfortunately I don't have the second gen towers. I contacted Celette to rent the original fixtures. I was told they scrapped the original fixtures. I have to purchase 6k worth of second gen towers then rent the tops for about another 1000-1500. That ain't happening any time soon...

Bummer. No body around here has the original towers? It seems like a set would be out there.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 13 2015, 07:56 PM

I volunteer my Six as one of the candidates to consider. Scotty is actually, in about 3 weeks, going to hit the ground running on my car and I am understanding it will be completed within 6 months at the outside.

Posted by: dudzy's914 Sep 13 2015, 08:19 PM

Alright, fine, I'll put mine in too!

1975 2.0l FI, rust and body work done in original L041.

DONE: body work except for color sand, fully redone interior exept headliner on targa, runs and drives.

NEEDS: some light engine work, linkage work, door handle work, new bumpers, radio, few more rubber seals, and fiddly bits.

This maybe a short project for someone with the time and money, but given I'm still in 10th grade high honors and play 3+ sports a season, it will take at least a few months even if I had the money and parts, this is why I could use some help getting my first teener on the road.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 13 2015, 09:51 PM

Wow - I am impressed by the dedication and commitment dudzy's914 (Finn) has demonstrated. His car should definitely be a party to this challenge/madness.

Posted by: mbseto Sep 14 2015, 08:00 AM

I like the idea, but after hanging out on this site a while I notice that many (most?) threads I see are guys that do this for a living and the work is done at a business. A few are guys that do something else for a living, and the car is... I hate to say hobby or that they are amateur because some of them are really good, but you get my point.

What I'm getting at is it might be cool to get a couple different projects from the ends of this spectrum and do a compare/contrast. It would sure help a guy like me to see how a pro approaches the various tasks of restoration, and especially how a pro would recommend an amateur approach the same thing. There is a ton of that on this site already and is the main reason I am here, but the more the better!

Posted by: stevegm Sep 14 2015, 12:06 PM

Let me think about how this might work. The initial idea wasn't to fund someone's build Rather, instead of a single project car in the magazine, I thought it might be fun to track a few builds side by side. Dedicate a page to each of 3 or 4 builds, in each issue. Cover the details in a thread or online.

But, I recognize that when you introduce professional shops and money, it becomes something else. Maybe the way to go is to find 3 or 4 builds happening over the next year that are about the same work (strip, repair, paint, assemble . . . or something like that), and by car owners (not shops).

Posted by: brettrarnold Sep 14 2015, 12:11 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 14 2015, 12:06 PM)

Let me think about how this might work. The initial idea wasn't to fund someone's build Rather, instead of a single project car in the magazine, I thought it might be fun to track a few builds side by side. Dedicate a page to each of 3 or 4 builds, in each issue. Cover the details in a thread or online.

But, I recognize that when you introduce professional shops and money, it becomes something else. Maybe the way to go is to find 3 or 4 builds happening over the next year that are about the same work (strip, repair, paint, assemble . . . or something like that), and by car owners (not shops).

Posted by: stevegm Sep 14 2015, 12:22 PM

I think the main things we need to look for are:

1. Similar amounts of work that needs to be done (with the caveat that you never really know what lies underneath until you get into it).
2. That the owner is planning to do it in about a year. I am imagining that we would start this fall or winter, and finish in 2016. So a 9 month or 1 year thing. But, as we all know these things never go as planned. So, it's difficult to figure out. We would cover i over 4 issues (1 year), with online updates along the way. I'd love to introduce the 3 or 4 builds in the January issue.
3. Not a shop doing the restoration. Obviously some things may need to go to a shop - metal work, engine rebuild, paint, etc. But, for the most part I was hoping it would be the owner doing the resto.

These are just ideas. Other ideas are always welcome.

Thanks,
Steve

Posted by: tomeric914 Sep 14 2015, 01:48 PM

What about the 914World Limo?

Posted by: r_towle Sep 14 2015, 01:58 PM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 14 2015, 10:00 AM)

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 14 2015, 02:03 PM

Im in

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 14 2015, 02:07 PM

The problem with the build thread sub forum is nothing has been moved in there in 2 years and there have been some amazing builds in that time.

Posted by: injunmort Sep 14 2015, 02:30 PM

I would be in, need to close up long, install engine shelf, some body work, strip and paint.

Posted by: rick 918-S Sep 14 2015, 02:33 PM

If nothing else this will motivate some guys to push on regardless.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 14 2015, 02:48 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Sep 14 2015, 04:33 PM)

If nothing else this will motivate some guys to push on regardless.

Posted by: Smallblockbug Sep 14 2015, 03:00 PM

Wish i could be in on this build off of sorts. But none of my parts from prior vw build are selling so im stuck at the moment.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 14 2015, 03:01 PM

Ok. So this doesn't seem like as crazy of an idea as it did at first. Let's see if we can put this together.

We need 3 or 4 people that are planning to do their build in the next 12 to 15 months and who want to do the Challenge. Please post a couple pictures of your car in this thread, and a short list of what you need to do to it (we are looking for builds that include a significant amount of work (whatever that means), but, can be completed in 1 year). Then we can figure out where to go from there and see if we can put this together. It would be nice to keep this more of a DIY, and less professional shops that are doing the whole thing for the owner. Obviously, some things are going to be sent out to a shop. But, you get the idea.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 14 2015, 05:07 PM

Steve, are you familar with my project? First link in my sig. I have about a year left on my build at this point for the major conversion bits.

This is a fully mechanical / electrical build along with a full 100% custom interior build.

The short version.
Engine: Audi AEB 1.8t Engine, rebuild unit and install upgraded rods for 600hp capacity
Transmission: Audi A6 2.8 5 speed FWD unit
Turbo: Comp Turbo triple ball bearing CTB5356 10psi 275hp, 35psi 500+hp.
Wiring: Strip all Porsche wiring, Replace with Audi wiring 100%
Engine Management: Modified OEM Audi Ecu
Power brakes: Yes
ABS integration: Yes
Traction control integration: Yes
Launch control: Yes
Cruise control: Yes
Climate control/AC: Yes
Alarm: Yes
OBD2 full control: Yes
Check engine light: No smile.gif
Front trunk and rear trunk: YES!

Posted by: stevegm Sep 14 2015, 05:27 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 14 2015, 07:07 PM)

Posted by: Larmo63 Sep 14 2015, 05:44 PM

Wait,….. a big, rich national sports car magazine wants to help financially put this engine in my car? I'm in!!!!!!

Posted by: stevegm Sep 14 2015, 05:49 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Sep 14 2015, 07:44 PM)

Wait, a big rich national sports car magazine wants to help financially put this engine in my car? I'm in!!!!!!

Posted by: r_towle Sep 14 2015, 06:05 PM

A global magazine, thank you.....

Posted by: dudzy's914 Sep 14 2015, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(dudzy's914 @ Sep 13 2015, 10:19 PM)

Posted by: dudzy's914 Sep 14 2015, 08:11 PM

Home from paint...Wait till the weekend for more!


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Posted by: schreiber Sep 14 2015, 09:40 PM

As much as I'd like to get in on a competition like this, I'd hate to have a hard timeline hanging over my head. I have no idea if my latest 914 project will take 1 year or 4.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 14 2015, 09:52 PM

QUOTE(schreiber @ Sep 14 2015, 11:40 PM)

Posted by: Mike Bellis Sep 14 2015, 09:53 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 14 2015, 04:07 PM)

Posted by: RobW Sep 14 2015, 09:59 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Sep 14 2015, 08:53 PM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 14 2015, 04:07 PM)

I have about a year left on my build at this point...

I sure hope so. I want to see you driving!

Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 14 2015, 10:08 PM

I am still debating what car I am going to use 72 or 75, but I have done almost all my research and just need a set of tires and clutch. I got to get rid of one of these cars as I need garage. Space for.....

My build will be an ls1 turbo powered car. I have engine and booster tranny and am awaiting my adapter to be completed which I am told should be in my hands in two weeks. I also have decided to use a corvette c5 front and rear suspension with 17/18 inch c5 speedline zo6 rims which I have. So my build will be starting very soon. I will,be building a frame with 1-1/2 inch square and round tube Dom. Still unsure if I will be extending the chassis to keep all stock engine accessories but will make decision soon. i am a bigger guy and don't have any room inside to spare. This project will be starting as soon as I get my adapter

Posted by: brettrarnold Sep 14 2015, 10:11 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 14 2015, 03:01 PM)

1. Repair frame rust
2. Rebuild engine (seized)
3. Rebuild weber 40 idf carbs
4. Repair door panels
5. Repair rear trunk rust as it will not stay up un-assisted (thankfully old lady is holding it up for the photo)
6. Some muffler work (not sure on this now)

1. Fix fiberglass fenders (front left has ripped)
2. Other bodywork repair to remove rust spots
3. Repaint
4. A million other items that could arise

Posted by: stevegm Sep 14 2015, 10:23 PM

QUOTE(Stacks914 @ Sep 15 2015, 12:08 AM)

Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 14 2015, 10:30 PM

Oh I have done a lot of research and its taking me a lot of time to get where I am at. and I never said I have any idea what I am doing . But yea fuck it I am in

Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 15 2015, 01:45 AM

Oh and pulled out a wheel to give you an idea of the ridiculousness of it......


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Posted by: mbseto Sep 15 2015, 07:06 AM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 14 2015, 03:58 PM)

Posted by: Mike Bellis Sep 15 2015, 05:32 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 14 2015, 03:58 PM)

Posted by: RobW Sep 15 2015, 05:33 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Sep 15 2015, 04:32 PM)

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 14 2015, 03:58 PM)

Sir Andy... built a whole sub forum for build threads, well worth the time to review all us hack builders, myself included

I don't think any of my build threads made it in there...

Posted by: FourBlades Sep 15 2015, 05:40 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Sep 15 2015, 04:32 PM)

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 14 2015, 03:58 PM)

Sir Andy... built a whole sub forum for build threads, well worth the time to review all us hack builders, myself included

I don't think any of my build threads made it in there...

Posted by: Jeffs9146 Sep 15 2015, 10:39 PM

I didn't do any build threads just build Q&A posts!

Lennies914 and I built 3 cars in less than 12 months and Lennies car won car of the month.

We are just two guys who like to build things and are not "pro's".

I think that who ever gets into the build off challenge should be a regular person like us who have used this site to share information and learn from the collective knowledge we have.

We are not like other clubs and we never will be......Thanks Andy!!!!!

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 06:34 AM

We are going to talk about the best way to do the Build-Off while at Okteenerfest this weekend.

I am thinking there are two options:

1. Choose 4 builds for the build-off. Or 3 or 6. But, a fixed number.
2. Anyone that meets the "criteria" can participate. Under this scenario we get more builds, but, more of them likely fall out along the way as they encounter issues that take longer (and more money) to fix.

As for criteria, here is the thought:
a. Must include removal and installation, or installation of the engine.
b. Must include significant rust/accident repair, and/or paint and bodywork.
c. Must include interior work.

How are the builds judged?
1. Finishing on time - The car must be "done" and on the road at the end of the build.
2. Completing all build tasks, as outlined at the outset of the build. This is determined by the person doing the build, but, roughly set out at the beginning of the build.
3. Quality and workmanship of the final product (I know that this one is hard to judge from afar and online. But, I think we have solutions for this).

The goal is less of a hard and fast competition, and more about getting the car done, done right, and on the road.

Thoughts?


EDIT: And do we include professional shops?
EDIT: Continued participation? Maybe progress (photos) every month? Every two weeks?
EDIT: There will be a deadline. Maybe 1 year from now - September 1st? Maybe coincide with Okteenerfest 2016. Although some west coast cars may not be able to attend. We can figure that out.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 16 2015, 06:50 AM

OK - I am just a spectator, so I am out. Full speed ahead fellow members.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 06:59 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Sep 16 2015, 08:50 AM)

OK - I am just a spectator, so I am out. Full speed ahead fellow members.

Posted by: mbseto Sep 16 2015, 07:02 AM

Take all (amateur?) comers, and make the requirements for *continued* participation. In any group of builders, you never know who will make it through on time, so let them self filter- when a project stalls, it's off the list.

Then at the end, if it's successful and people want to do it again, you can let those that fell by the wayside have a second shot at jump-starting their project.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 16 2015, 08:09 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 16 2015, 05:34 AM)

Posted by: mepstein Sep 16 2015, 08:46 AM

I'm not good with following rules so I'm out.

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Sep 16 2015, 09:36 AM

Olympic Blue build.

I am considering throwing my hat into the ring for this one.

But everyone won't have the same starting point, or amount / complexity of work that needs to be accomplished. Some of us have already gotten far along in the process. And others will farm out work such as engine building, body work and paint. And there are many routes that can be taken and job A is not always followed by Job B and job C may not even be necessary in all cases.
Will there be a set deadline for all participants or a self-imposed deadline or goal?

Anyways here is my story:
Purchased my 914 in 1979. I’m the second owner. Drove it for 10 years with only minor problems until the clutch went out 1989 and the engine had 137K on it. Then I was faced with low funds and engine that when removed will need rebuilding. So I put it in storage in a limestone mine in PA and left it there for 20+ years, never forgetting about it.
Fast forward to 2010 and I bring it home to a new 14 X20 SHED I had built just to work on the car.
Since that time I have had the extensive rust issues taken care of by Chris at Tangerine and also had the fenders flared for the 5 bolt Fuchs I will be running.
I have completed the engine rebuild myself going from 1.7 into a 2056 with heads by HAM and a Raby 9590 cam, I am keeping the D-jet FI.
I am now working on the body doing body work and paint. I AM NOT A BODY MAN. I really don’t even like body work but think I am capable.
This is the hardest part for me. I would rather build engines.
Along the way I am learning to weld, machine small parts and paint and acquiring many new tools.
My own self-imposed goal is to drive it to 2016 Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix. Not sure if it will happen but without a goal it definitely WON’T happen.
Now a few of the requisite pictures.



20+ years of dust. Not a barn find cause it was never lost.



Pulling the engine..
Don't let its good looks fool you. On the west coast this would have been parted out.




137K and still some crosshatch in the cylinders.



Engine Done. Real purty now...



Sandblasting on dolly. I have some paint done, but enough pictures for now.

Steve, let me know if I am a candidate...

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 16 2015, 09:41 AM

I actually don't name my cars. That might be weird, since my bother names his cars. I call my Six, "The Six". So, that can be the name????

Posted by: mepstein Sep 16 2015, 09:53 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Sep 16 2015, 11:41 AM)

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Sep 16 2015, 10:35 AM

I don't really name mine either, when referring to the 914 I usually just called it the "little blue car"

and the motorcycles were

1948 Harley = the Rigid

1977 FXE = the Orange bike

2001 Flhtc touring = the Dresser.

Posted by: jkb944t Sep 16 2015, 10:56 AM

I might be up for the challenge since I still have enough work to complete from this point forward to consume a year. The project stalled for many years due to my job and raising kids but I have been working on it a lot the last few months and I hope to continue.

This is my build so far: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=119197&st=40

Jeff B

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 11:35 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 16 2015, 10:09 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 16 2015, 05:34 AM)

We are going to talk about the best way to do the Build-Off while at Okteenerfest this weekend.

I am thinking there are two options:

1. Choose 4 builds for the build-off. Or 3 or 6. But, a fixed number.
2. Anyone that meets the "criteria" can participate. Under this scenario we get more builds, but, more of them likely fall out along the way as they encounter issues that take longer (and more money) to fix.

As for criteria, here is the thought:
a. Must include removal and installation, or installation of the engine.
b. Must include significant rust/accident repair, and/or paint and bodywork.
c. Must include interior work.

How are the builds judged?
1. Finishing on time - The car must be "done" and on the road at the end of the build.
2. Completing all build tasks, as outlined at the outset of the build. This is determined by the person doing the build, but, roughly set out at the beginning of the build.
3. Quality and workmanship of the final product (I know that this one is hard to judge from afar and online. But, I think we have solutions for this).

The goal is less of a hard and fast competition, and more about getting the car done, done right, and on the road.

Thoughts?


EDIT: And do we include professional shops?
EDIT: Continued participation? Maybe progress (photos) every month? Every two weeks?

My thoughts are no one does a complete rebuild in only a year.....

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 11:37 AM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 16 2015, 11:53 AM)

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Sep 16 2015, 11:41 AM)

I actually don't name my cars. That might be weird, since my bother names his cars. I call my Six, "The Six". So, that can be the name????

I name them:
Big red
Little red
Suby red
Ugly red
Smelly red
Gas burner red
Redrum

All the others were called - not red

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 11:43 AM

QUOTE(Olympic 1.7 @ Sep 16 2015, 11:36 AM)

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Sep 16 2015, 11:53 AM

Do engine conversions count? I'd be game.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 12:06 PM

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Sep 16 2015, 01:53 PM)

Posted by: RobW Sep 16 2015, 01:16 PM

As builder of a number of prior 914s I can tell you that any successful project requires cash, a solid plan, cash, detailed parts lists, cash, time, cash, skills, cash, motivation, cash, and cash.

You may want to prequalify any entrant with such ability. We've all seen where magic has been made in a home garage. That's special to me because I've been building dream 914s in my mind since I was 6 and appreciate those with the gifts and means.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 16 2015, 01:21 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 16 2015, 10:35 AM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 16 2015, 10:09 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 16 2015, 05:34 AM)

We are going to talk about the best way to do the Build-Off while at Okteenerfest this weekend.

I am thinking there are two options:

1. Choose 4 builds for the build-off. Or 3 or 6. But, a fixed number.
2. Anyone that meets the "criteria" can participate. Under this scenario we get more builds, but, more of them likely fall out along the way as they encounter issues that take longer (and more money) to fix.

As for criteria, here is the thought:
a. Must include removal and installation, or installation of the engine.
b. Must include significant rust/accident repair, and/or paint and bodywork.
c. Must include interior work.

How are the builds judged?
1. Finishing on time - The car must be "done" and on the road at the end of the build.
2. Completing all build tasks, as outlined at the outset of the build. This is determined by the person doing the build, but, roughly set out at the beginning of the build.
3. Quality and workmanship of the final product (I know that this one is hard to judge from afar and online. But, I think we have solutions for this).

The goal is less of a hard and fast competition, and more about getting the car done, done right, and on the road.

Thoughts?


EDIT: And do we include professional shops?
EDIT: Continued participation? Maybe progress (photos) every month? Every two weeks?

My thoughts are no one does a complete rebuild in only a year.....

I agree. A full, bare-metal tear-down resto would take longer than a year in all but the very rare case. But, to pull the engine, rebuild it, do some rust repair, paint, etc. and get it back on the road can be done in a year.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 01:24 PM

QUOTE(RobW @ Sep 16 2015, 03:16 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 01:29 PM

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Sep 16 2015, 02:28 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 16 2015, 01:43 PM)

QUOTE(Olympic 1.7 @ Sep 16 2015, 11:36 AM)

Olympic Blue build.

I am considering throwing my hat into the ring for this one.

But everyone won't have the same starting point, or amount / complexity of work that needs to be accomplished. Some of us have already gotten far along in the process. And others will farm out work such as engine building, body work and paint. And there are many routes that can be taken and job A is not always followed by Job B and job C may not even be necessary in all cases.
Will there be a set deadline for all participants or a self-imposed deadline or goal?

Steve, let me know if I am a candidate...

Everyone will start from different points. That is ok. That can be taken into consideration in the end. Yes, there will be a deadline. Maybe September 1st? What year is your car?

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 16 2015, 02:35 PM

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Sep 16 2015, 12:53 PM)

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Sep 16 2015, 02:50 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Sep 16 2015, 04:35 PM)

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Sep 16 2015, 12:53 PM)

Do engine conversions count? I'd be game.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 16 2015, 03:11 PM

I hear everybody that the projects can't be matched exactly in terms of amount of work. And a full bare-metal restoration takes 2 to 3 years, not 1 year. But, no one is winning a million dollars here. The idea is a friendly competition to make it interesting and motivate people get those cars back on the road (it is always nice to have others cheering you on when you hit a bump in the road). I think this can be really cool to follow.

If anyone has any suggestions how to "prequalify" the projects to roughly match them in terms of work, I'd love to hear them. I figured that requiring an engine pull and rust/paint work roughly did that. But, I admit those are crude measures of the true amount of work (But, isn't finding new issues to deal with during the build, part of the fun of doing a 914?).

Ideas?

The other idea is to go back to just 4 or 6 builds (rather than letting anybody participate), and hand-pick them based on the amount of work planned.

Posted by: carphappy Sep 16 2015, 03:49 PM

all great ideas, may I suggest overall cost be included in the final equation, not including participants labor.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 16 2015, 04:08 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Sep 15 2015, 04:32 PM)

I don't think any of my build threads made it in there...

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Sep 16 2015, 04:46 PM

Can we include my build? Will it matter that I have a 10 year head start if I didn't get much done in most of them?

Posted by: madmax914 Sep 16 2015, 05:04 PM

Steve,
I may be interested in participating in the build off. Please let me know what I have to do to submit my car to be considered.

Posted by: r_towle Sep 16 2015, 05:52 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Sep 16 2015, 10:46 AM)

Posted by: theleschyouknow Sep 16 2015, 06:58 PM

QUOTE(trojanhorsepower @ Sep 16 2015, 05:46 PM)

Posted by: mbseto Sep 18 2015, 09:40 AM

Pick your candidates and pair them with one (or a few) of the pros on the board. The pros talk to the candidate, evaluate the car and the candidates skills/resources, then help come up with a realistic timeline and some milestones. So then you have a sort of team... The mentors can provide moral support, and maybe help keep the candidate on track.

I know it's a lot to ask of someone who's got a full time job plus their own projects, but it would help with the problem of hobbyists not knowing what each task is going to take until they get there. Maybe the magazine can provide advertising benefits to the mentors.

Then schedule a meetup at the final date. Each candidate has to drive the car that they worked on to the meet!

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 18 2015, 07:31 PM

I've been meaning to do a build thread on my Nissan swap. Depends on how many years ago you want the story to start. Built in 01, parked in 05, almost had it cleaned up and running again for WRC15. Didn't get much done over the hellish summer.

I've done/doing a ton of custom stuff. 5-lug swap, Maxima engine, J30 gauges, hydraulic clutch, modern interior, HID lowpro headlights, and a possible upgrade to the VQ35 with a cable shifter. Undercowl A/C unit of course. Drive it a while, then on a rotisserie for a bit of rust repair and paint.

The only catch... I suck with deadlines. By suck I mean God laughs whenever I make plans.

Posted by: r_towle Sep 18 2015, 07:34 PM

Get the restoration design guys to participate and do a 914.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 18 2015, 07:36 PM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 18 2015, 11:40 AM)

Posted by: lonewolfe Sep 18 2015, 10:46 PM

I may be up for this challenge. I have an Irish Green '72 1.7 that has seen better days. It was running up till about a year ago. I have some collision damage on the passenger side door jam and quarter panel. The damage was buried under a ton of Bondo that I removed with a wire wheel. I have another nice quarter panel that I'll be using to replace the damaged portions of the quarter panel and jam. I also will be replacing the rear trunk pan that is rusted, some hell hole repairs, battery tray replacement and engine shelf and inner fender panel. I am also replacing the engine, transmission, suspension, brakes, and adding an oil cooler. I also have a completely new interior and dash from 914 Rubber that will be going into this car. The engine will be a 2258cc stroker. I have 90% of the parts needed for all of this. I had intended to get most of this done this summer but got bit on my foot by a Brown Recluse spider, had to get major surgery and after three months I am about a month away from being able to start working on my car again. It has been a long rehabilitation. I'll be removing all undercoating in search of rust. I know I have a section of passenger side floor pan to repair or possibly to replace. I'll be getting the car painted by a shop most likely but doing the rest myself. A year is quite ambitious to get it done but certainly possible and this would be a great motivation to stay at it!

Posted by: RobW Sep 18 2015, 10:49 PM

Lets have an east coast / midwest / west coast build contest. Finished cars do a 50 state tour.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 19 2015, 02:16 AM

You tell me one person that has the time to do a year long FULL build AND a 50 state tour....

Posted by: lonewolfe Sep 19 2015, 02:56 AM

50 state tour? How about a rally from Alaska to Florida?

Posted by: RobW Sep 19 2015, 07:37 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 19 2015, 01:16 AM)

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 19 2015, 10:36 AM

QUOTE(RobW @ Sep 19 2015, 06:37 AM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 19 2015, 01:16 AM)

You tell me one person that has the time to do a year long FULL build AND a 50 state tour....

Santa Claus. Only works 1 day a year. Appears to have the skills to build toys.

Posted by: RJMII Sep 19 2015, 05:03 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 13 2015, 05:25 PM)

Posted by: brettrarnold Sep 20 2015, 09:21 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 18 2015, 07:36 PM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 18 2015, 11:40 AM)

Pick your candidates and pair them with one (or a few) of the pros on the board. The pros talk to the candidate, evaluate the car and the candidates skills/resources, then help come up with a realistic timeline and some milestones. So then you have a sort of team... The mentors can provide moral support, and maybe help keep the candidate on track.

I know it's a lot to ask of someone who's got a full time job plus their own projects, but it would help with the problem of hobbyists not knowing what each task is going to take until they get there. Maybe the magazine can provide advertising benefits to the mentors.

Then schedule a meetup at the final date. Each candidate has to drive the car that they worked on to the meet!

I have been thinking about this approach - mentor/team. But, it is a lot to ask of them. I also like the idea of finishing at an event - like Okteenerfest. But, there aren't many centrally located events. We are going to talk about it this weekend at Okteenerfest and try to figure it out.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 21 2015, 06:53 PM

I have PM'd everyone who posted interest in participating, for some more information about what you have planned to complete over the next year. Here is who we have so far:

dudzy's914 - '75 2.0 liter
brettrarnold - '73 1.7 liter
injunmort - '72 barn find 1.7 liter (Adriatic blue)
Andyrew - '73 Audi-powered Outlaw 914
Stacks914 - Tube-frame, Corvette Suspension 914
mbseto - '71 1.7 liter
Olympic '73 1.7
jkb944t - 914 GT conversion
ThePaintedMan
trojanhorsepower
madmax914
Chris914n6 - Nissan conversion
lonewolfe - '72, 1.7, Irish Green
RJMII - '70, Mitsubishi 4g63

Posted by: stevegm Sep 21 2015, 07:01 PM

Posted by: mbseto Sep 22 2015, 07:08 AM

If you just track status and benchmarks in the main thread, and include links back to the owner's build threads, it seems like you could manage many projects without much trouble. Put up a detailed post for the highlights, when someone does something esp. cool or instructive.

It occurs to me, getting relatively equal quality and quantity photos and descriptions from all builds might be tricky. Do you have guidelines in mind for content?

Posted by: stevegm Sep 22 2015, 08:28 AM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 22 2015, 09:08 AM)

Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 22 2015, 09:13 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 22 2015, 09:08 AM)

If you just track status and benchmarks in the main thread, and include links back to the owner's build threads, it seems like you could manage many projects without much trouble. Put up a detailed post for the highlights, when someone does something esp. cool or instructive.

It occurs to me, getting relatively equal quality and quantity photos and descriptions from all builds might be tricky. Do you have guidelines in mind for content?

That might work. There are two things we are working through. First, comments related to 14 builds in the Challenge thread (even if each build has a separate thread) will add up fast and make it difficult to follow the Challenge without wading through a ton of extra stuff. Second, we have limited space in the magazine (even if we add pages for this content). With 14 builds, each one would only get about 1/4 of a page coverage in each issue. Not ideal. We are working on it though.

It would be great to have a way to narrow the field as time goes on (based on progress). So start with the 14 builds, and then narrow it to 8 by the end of the year, 4 by Hershey, and 2 by July. But, I am not sure how to do that. It is just an idea. All a bit complicated. I'd like to keep it simple.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 22 2015, 09:32 AM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 22 2015, 09:08 AM)

If you just track status and benchmarks in the main thread, and include links back to the owner's build threads, it seems like you could manage many projects without much trouble. Put up a detailed post for the highlights, when someone does something esp. cool or instructive.

It occurs to me, getting relatively equal quality and quantity photos and descriptions from all builds might be tricky. Do you have guidelines in mind for content?

That might work. There are two things we are working through. First, comments related to 14 builds in the Challenge thread (even if each build has a separate thread) will add up fast and make it difficult to follow the Challenge without wading through a ton of extra stuff. Second, we have limited space in the magazine (even if we add pages for this content). With 14 builds, each one would only get about 1/4 of a page coverage in each issue. Not ideal. We are working on it though.

It would be great to have a way to narrow the field as time goes on (based on progress). So start with the 14 builds, and then narrow it to 8 by the end of the year, 4 by Hershey, and 2 by July. But, I am not sure how to do that. It is just an idea. All a bit complicated. I'd like to keep it simple.

Do it 'Survivor' style. Have the participants vote for the cars to stay in....or the cars to go.

Posted by: brettrarnold Sep 22 2015, 09:45 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 09:32 AM)

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 22 2015, 09:08 AM)

If you just track status and benchmarks in the main thread, and include links back to the owner's build threads, it seems like you could manage many projects without much trouble. Put up a detailed post for the highlights, when someone does something esp. cool or instructive.

It occurs to me, getting relatively equal quality and quantity photos and descriptions from all builds might be tricky. Do you have guidelines in mind for content?

That might work. There are two things we are working through. First, comments related to 14 builds in the Challenge thread (even if each build has a separate thread) will add up fast and make it difficult to follow the Challenge without wading through a ton of extra stuff. Second, we have limited space in the magazine (even if we add pages for this content). With 14 builds, each one would only get about 1/4 of a page coverage in each issue. Not ideal. We are working on it though.

It would be great to have a way to narrow the field as time goes on (based on progress). So start with the 14 builds, and then narrow it to 8 by the end of the year, 4 by Hershey, and 2 by July. But, I am not sure how to do that. It is just an idea. All a bit complicated. I'd like to keep it simple.

Do it 'Survivor' style. Have the participants vote for the cars to stay in....or the cars to go.

Neat idea. We don't want a popularity contest though. Isn't that how that would end up? And we really want to make sure that this doesn't result in any hard feelings. It is just a friendly build challenge. Keep the ideas coming. I am really struggling to figure out how to narrow the field based on progress, knowing that we won't see the cars during the build. Only photos.

Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 22 2015, 09:47 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 08:32 AM)

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 22 2015, 09:08 AM)

If you just track status and benchmarks in the main thread, and include links back to the owner's build threads, it seems like you could manage many projects without much trouble. Put up a detailed post for the highlights, when someone does something esp. cool or instructive.

It occurs to me, getting relatively equal quality and quantity photos and descriptions from all builds might be tricky. Do you have guidelines in mind for content?

That might work. There are two things we are working through. First, comments related to 14 builds in the Challenge thread (even if each build has a separate thread) will add up fast and make it difficult to follow the Challenge without wading through a ton of extra stuff. Second, we have limited space in the magazine (even if we add pages for this content). With 14 builds, each one would only get about 1/4 of a page coverage in each issue. Not ideal. We are working on it though.

It would be great to have a way to narrow the field as time goes on (based on progress). So start with the 14 builds, and then narrow it to 8 by the end of the year, 4 by Hershey, and 2 by July. But, I am not sure how to do that. It is just an idea. All a bit complicated. I'd like to keep it simple.

Do it 'Survivor' style. Have the participants vote for the cars to stay in....or the cars to go.

Neat idea. We don't want a popularity contest though. Isn't that how that would end up? And we really want to make sure that this doesn't result in any hard feelings. It is just a friendly build challenge. Keep the ideas coming. I am really struggling to figure out how to narrow the field based on progress, knowing that we won't see the cars during the build. Only photos.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 22 2015, 10:05 AM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:47 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 08:32 AM)

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 22 2015, 09:08 AM)

If you just track status and benchmarks in the main thread, and include links back to the owner's build threads, it seems like you could manage many projects without much trouble. Put up a detailed post for the highlights, when someone does something esp. cool or instructive.

It occurs to me, getting relatively equal quality and quantity photos and descriptions from all builds might be tricky. Do you have guidelines in mind for content?

That might work. There are two things we are working through. First, comments related to 14 builds in the Challenge thread (even if each build has a separate thread) will add up fast and make it difficult to follow the Challenge without wading through a ton of extra stuff. Second, we have limited space in the magazine (even if we add pages for this content). With 14 builds, each one would only get about 1/4 of a page coverage in each issue. Not ideal. We are working on it though.

It would be great to have a way to narrow the field as time goes on (based on progress). So start with the 14 builds, and then narrow it to 8 by the end of the year, 4 by Hershey, and 2 by July. But, I am not sure how to do that. It is just an idea. All a bit complicated. I'd like to keep it simple.

Do it 'Survivor' style. Have the participants vote for the cars to stay in....or the cars to go.

Neat idea. We don't want a popularity contest though. Isn't that how that would end up? And we really want to make sure that this doesn't result in any hard feelings. It is just a friendly build challenge. Keep the ideas coming. I am really struggling to figure out how to narrow the field based on progress, knowing that we won't see the cars during the build. Only photos.

I don't think the popularity contest would be nearly as big an issue among the participants. In this context, you'd hope that they would want to keep the builders that have the most interesting, active builds going and cull the less ambitious. You might even encourage interaction among the builders to help and encourage each other.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 22 2015, 10:15 AM

Its not a bad idea, one of the big issues your going to see with 14 total builds is half of them will just totally stop, life gets in the way, interest dwindles, money grows tight... ect. This will give you the oportunity to cut those builds out.

Posted by: brettrarnold Sep 22 2015, 10:32 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 10:05 AM)

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:47 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 08:32 AM)

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:28 AM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 22 2015, 09:08 AM)

If you just track status and benchmarks in the main thread, and include links back to the owner's build threads, it seems like you could manage many projects without much trouble. Put up a detailed post for the highlights, when someone does something esp. cool or instructive.

It occurs to me, getting relatively equal quality and quantity photos and descriptions from all builds might be tricky. Do you have guidelines in mind for content?

That might work. There are two things we are working through. First, comments related to 14 builds in the Challenge thread (even if each build has a separate thread) will add up fast and make it difficult to follow the Challenge without wading through a ton of extra stuff. Second, we have limited space in the magazine (even if we add pages for this content). With 14 builds, each one would only get about 1/4 of a page coverage in each issue. Not ideal. We are working on it though.

It would be great to have a way to narrow the field as time goes on (based on progress). So start with the 14 builds, and then narrow it to 8 by the end of the year, 4 by Hershey, and 2 by July. But, I am not sure how to do that. It is just an idea. All a bit complicated. I'd like to keep it simple.

Do it 'Survivor' style. Have the participants vote for the cars to stay in....or the cars to go.

Neat idea. We don't want a popularity contest though. Isn't that how that would end up? And we really want to make sure that this doesn't result in any hard feelings. It is just a friendly build challenge. Keep the ideas coming. I am really struggling to figure out how to narrow the field based on progress, knowing that we won't see the cars during the build. Only photos.

I don't think the popularity contest would be nearly as big an issue among the participants. In this context, you'd hope that they would want to keep the builders that have the most interesting, active builds going and cull the less ambitious. You might even encourage interaction among the builders to help and encourage each other.

Ok. Maybe you are right - this is a pretty good idea. I just don't want it to become a popularity contest, or for it to result in hard feelings for anyone. It's all fun, fun, fun.

So, the participants decide who stays and goes? No vote on 914world? Probably better than a panel of judges, because we don't have to bother people to be judges. And judges can feel in the middle if their friends are participants.

Anyone see any other problems with letting the participants vote who stays and goes, under this schedule?

Start with 14 builds (14 have expressed interest in participating, IIRC)
January 1st - reduce to 8 builds. Is 3 months enough time to reduce it b6 6 builds?
April 1st - reduce to 4 builds
Then maybe just leave it at 4 until the end.

OR, maybe it would be better to give them some more time:

Start with 14 builds (14 have expressed interest in participating, IIRC)
March 1st - reduce to 8 builds. Is 3 months enough time to reduce it b6 6 builds?
July 1st - reduce to 4 builds
Then maybe just leave it at 4 until the end.

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Sep 22 2015, 11:11 AM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sept 22 2015, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sept 22 2015)

Posted by: Reno914 Sep 22 2015, 11:24 AM

This sounds awesome, is there anyone in the Reno area who is planning on participating, I would love to try and help out.

Reno914

Posted by: mbseto Sep 22 2015, 11:47 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 22 2015, 12:15 PM)

Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 22 2015, 11:48 AM

Since this is ultimately a competition, the voting criteria for the participants needs to be spelled out. First of all, you're trying to determine the 'best' build. Since that is a subjective term it comes down to the judgement of the participants as to the definition of 'best'. This can include ingenuity, resourcefulness, workmanship, attention to detail, helpfulness to other builders, persistence, etc. I'm sure there are other criteria I've missed, but you get the idea.

The quality of the Challenge will depend on the integrity, honor, generosity and enthusiasm of the participants. Those are also some of the primary elements that makes 914World such a compelling place to live. If participants are encouraging their 'garage mates' instead of trying to defeat them it would be entirely within the spirit of 914World.

In a sense, it's a little like golf where the contest is really against the golf course, not the other golfers. Think of the cars as the course; every course is unique with it's own set of challenges. As the golfer(builder), the object is to successfully overcome the challenges in front of you. Instead of a score, your fellow builders decide who has done the best job of meeting the challenge.

Build on.

Posted by: mgp4591 Sep 22 2015, 12:45 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:48 AM)

Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 22 2015, 03:30 PM

Guys to simplifiy things I would just say who ever can complete the cars by the date should be judged. Everyone has their own idea of what a porsche 914 should or should not be! Clearly life will get in the way for some builds the ones that finish should get voted on by members. Either way I will keep posting pictures of my build weather people like it or not. I am not building a car for anyone but myself. No ones build should be booted early. I will send a picture of myself standing next to my car but I will not be allowing anyone to set any rules or anything for my build. If you like what is done vote for me if not I am sure others will have something more to your liking. I am just a dude with minimal auto expeirence and this is just cheap entertainment for me. Though it is also a learning experience.

I am building a car here. I have no idea what is ment by honor, integrity, generousity in regards to building your own car. I thought we are judging cars. If you want a porsche 914 man of the year tropthy that should be a different award

Its like the Gumball run of builds, 14 cars, 5 things you want to do, and a picture of yourself with the car. Minimal requirements, 1 year everyone votes at the end. I will say this is a huge disadvantage for me as you mention porsche 914 where I am from and people think your a rich porsche owner. I do not have the established relationships on the board other people have. I do not have the "hey come on over" factor that others have and I am still willing to continue per the rules.

These are my thoughts

Posted by: stevegm Sep 22 2015, 04:15 PM

I think everyone's posts above summarize the issues well.

Criteria/Guidelines vs. Just build your build
Reduce the field along the way vs. Let whoever falls out fall out on their own.

I tend to think less is more here. The last thing I want to do is tell someone how they should build their car, or restrict them in any way. Nor do I want to be the person cutting people. Ideally, people would cut themselves if they fall behind.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 22 2015, 04:27 PM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 22 2015, 10:47 AM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 22 2015, 12:15 PM)

Its not a bad idea, one of the big issues your going to see with 14 total builds is half of them will just totally stop, life gets in the way, interest dwindles, money grows tight... ect. This will give you the opportunity to cut those builds out.

You won't need to eliminate anyone at all. People will eliminate themselves. Really, you could probably just tell the participants: meet your milestones, and if you slip a certain amount, bow out on your own.

Posted by: 914forme Sep 22 2015, 04:49 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 21 2015, 08:53 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 22 2015, 06:08 PM

This has gone in a very bad direction. My wife has me watching the tv show Four Weddings to see how they vote each other off the show.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 22 2015, 07:47 PM

To me, it seems that if there are no criteria, and no voting, etc. then it really isn't any different than watching 14 build threads. We want it to be interesting, and reducing the field periodically does that. In addition, it will be nearly impossible to effectively cover 15 build threads in the magazine, or even online.

Judges and panels, etc. introduce a lot of issues. Letting the participants vote, and then tallying the votes to reduce the field seems like a simple system. In addition to the participants, a 914world poll could also be thrown in the vote. The 914world poll would carry the weight of a single participant in each vote.

Also waiting until March to reduce the field seems too long to keep things interesting. Here is my suggested schedule:

January 1st - Reduce to 12 builds
April 1st - Reduce to 8 builds
July 1st - Reduce to 4 builds

Posted by: hot_shoe914 Sep 22 2015, 07:57 PM

I have a bare mostly painted shell that I'd like to toss in. Basically it needs a little more paint and then to be assembled. Motor has to be built and installed also. Bare shell to complete with plans to drive it (or trailer it after this weekends adventure) to Okteenerfest.


Shoe

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 22 2015, 08:01 PM

Now make her watch Biker Build-off

More Ideas:

No elimination. Challenge ends early Dec. Week or 2 voting, then Christmas presents

Awards for just about everything, best interior, best exterior, most impressive accomplishment (tons of hours), most impressive skills, best city Porsche, best sun Porsche, best action Porsche (yep, 914 ads), most want to drive, most want to drive stolen, most want in my garage, most original, most unique, most NARP, most/least tasteful, best inside tunes, best outside tunes, nicest trunks, most traveled, most neglected, People's Choice (best of everything), the list can go on.

Repeat next year with new contestants.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 22 2015, 08:40 PM

I wanted to keep this simple. This is about as simple as I could get it and still keep it interesting and fair. What do you think?

PRELIMINARY DRAFT OF RULES FOR REVIEW AND COMMENT:
The 914 Build-Off Challenge will start on October 1, 2015. To participate, please post your interest in this thread, or PM me. We will request that you submit a list of the major tasks that you need to complete in the next year, as well as a photo of yourself with your 914.

All builds are eligible, provided they meet the criteria (the build can be a complete resto or a cleanup):

Criteria to participate:
a. Must include removal and installation, or installation of the engine.
b. Must include significant rust/accident repair, and/or paint and bodywork.
c. Must include significant interior work.

How are the builds judged?
1. Finishing on time - The car must be "done" and on the road at the end of the build.
The car must be road worthy at the end of the competition, including titled, registered, and tagged.
2. Completing all build tasks, as outlined at the beginning of the build. This is determined by the person doing the build, but, roughly set out at the beginning of the build.
3. Quality and workmanship of the final car.


The field of 914s will be reduced by participant voting, based on the following schedule:
January 1st - Reduce to 12 builds
April 1st - Reduce to 8 builds
July 1st - Reduce to 4 builds

Votes will be due 2 weeks prior to field reduction date. At each reduction in the field, each participant will vote based on:
A. Progress
B. Workmanship
C. Spirit

Participants can't vote for themselves. Voting for each of the above 3 categories is on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the best. In addition to the participant votes, a 914world poll will be added to the score with the same weight as a single participant. After the votes are tallied the 12 (January), 8 (April), 4 (July) builds with the most votes continue.

A single 914world thread will be started for the Challenge, and only participants can post in the thread (assuming admin is ok with that). Participants are required to post at least once a month, in an end-of-month post on or before the last day of the month. The post must include:

1. Progress made.
2. Unexpected challenges they encountered.
3. Whether any shops/vendors provided any services.
4. Include at least 1 photo.

The spirit of the Challenge is to do the work yourself. Participants can get help from friends and family, etc. No mentors will be assigned, but, there are lots of mentors that are always happy to give advice on 914world. Participants can use shops to do portions of the work, but, most of the work must be done by the participant, and the use of services by a shop must be disclosed in the thread, so that participants can take it into account in their voting. No "sponsorships" of participant's cars by vendors/shops. The participants agree to email photos to be used in the magazine and online, and release copyright of such photos.

There will be a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place, along with a Spirit of the 914 award. We are also considering best engine, best exterior, best interior, and people's choice awards.

We are using an honor system. Yes, you could cheat. But, you won't because it is a matter of pride. This Challenge should be viewed like a wager with your best friend as to who can build the best build in 1 year. Build on.

Posted by: RJMII Sep 22 2015, 09:43 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 06:08 PM)

This has gone in a very bad direction. My wife has me watching the tv show Four Weddings to see how they vote each other off the show.

Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 22 2015, 10:44 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 06:40 PM)

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 22 2015, 11:30 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:40 PM)

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 23 2015, 12:12 AM

Points system. (Inspired by Biggest Loser)

Not as simple but might be fairer since it seem that everyone is starting from a different place with a different list of objectives.

Give each objective a point value, say by time and/or dollars involved. Contestants can rack up points in any order. If you meet your points requirement for the quarter you continue. After ~6 months, lowest points gainer or 2 get eliminated every few weeks/month, with a comeback option if for the next period you are the highest gainer.

I guess my motivation is to keep the motivation to finish the car even if your out of the game.

I don't know if a dealer service manual with book time is floating around, or if something is on Alldata, but that would be the way to go for assigning points.

Something to play with. It would help to know more about what the challengers are starting with and what they need to do. At least for me one of the requirements disqualifies me.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 23 2015, 06:37 AM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 23 2015, 01:30 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:40 PM)

I wanted to keep this simple. This is about as simple as I could get it and still keep it interesting and fair. What do you think?

PRELIMINARY DRAFT OF RULES FOR REVIEW AND COMMENT:

Just a little feedback.

I'm thinking New Years to Thanksgiving. Dec is a no free time month for most of us with families. Plus it would give time for a few others to jump in to replace the few that will need to bow out. Or extend the 1st deadline a bit.

Posted by: brettrarnold Sep 23 2015, 07:07 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 23 2015, 06:37 AM)

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 23 2015, 01:30 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 22 2015, 07:40 PM)

I wanted to keep this simple. This is about as simple as I could get it and still keep it interesting and fair. What do you think?

PRELIMINARY DRAFT OF RULES FOR REVIEW AND COMMENT:

Just a little feedback.

I'm thinking New Years to Thanksgiving. Dec is a no free time month for most of us with families. Plus it would give time for a few others to jump in to replace the few that will need to bow out. Or extend the 1st deadline a bit.

The reason we wanted to end in early Fall is that it will ensure that people can drive their car when it is done. Also, if we wait to start January 1st, then people get a head start and things could get fishy. Also, there aren't really any car shows in November/December/January. So, showing off these cars, or giving out the awards at a car show is much harder if it runs January to January. I'd love to hear from the participants whether October to October works for them.

QUOTE

Sponsors- Promotional consideration should be accounted for. I'm sure this thread will get plenty of attention. Maybe a bonus for being part of the challenge is discounts from vendors?

I agree. I don't really see any issue in letting them get sponsors if they want, as long as it is capped at like $3,000 - $5,000.

Posted by: 914forme Sep 23 2015, 07:10 AM

October 1 to October 1 would work, as I said my goal is to drive to Okteenerfest.

And if you really want a project plan, that is fine with me, as mine is huge. This falls under the category be careful what you wish for. Now a picture of me, not good with that, but then, its my own hang up, not yours.

Will this be like a GRM challenge project where we have to supply our budget? I am not sure I have a way of tracking that if it is, as I have assembled, traded, and swapped, and dumpster dove for parts. I am not saying have a cap, just wondering if we have to disclose costs?

Posted by: stevegm Sep 23 2015, 07:24 AM

QUOTE(914forme @ Sep 23 2015, 09:10 AM)

Posted by: mbseto Sep 23 2015, 08:01 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 23 2015, 08:37 AM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 23 2015, 08:16 AM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 23 2015, 10:01 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 23 2015, 08:37 AM)

QUOTE

Sponsors...

I agree. I don't really see any issue in letting them get sponsors if they want, as long as it is capped at like $3,000 - $5,000.

It never even occurred to me that someone would sponsor something like this. How does some guy in a garage go about achieving this??

Posted by: madmax914 Sep 23 2015, 08:41 AM

Steve, did you get the PM on my build? I sent it over yesterday morning

Posted by: mbseto Sep 23 2015, 09:59 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 23 2015, 10:16 AM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 23 2015, 10:01 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 23 2015, 08:37 AM)

QUOTE

Sponsors...

I agree. I don't really see any issue in letting them get sponsors if they want, as long as it is capped at like $3,000 - $5,000.

It never even occurred to me that someone would sponsor something like this. How does some guy in a garage go about achieving this??

Me neither. Until I was reading the rules of other builds (biker, rat rod, etc.). The concern seemed to be that a vendor would put up big sponsorship money for a car, to get exposure in a magazine. In this case, I don't think it is much of a concern - we are a very small magazine. But, I think it is possible that a vendor might want to sponsor a car on a small scale, and I think that is great.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 23 2015, 10:02 AM

We need to adjust the first elimination date a little, to ensure that all of the builds get to be included in the magazine:

Here is what we are thinking:

Challenge begins - October 1st - I think we are up to 16 participants to start
First Elimination - January 15th - Reduce to 12 builds
Second Elimination - April 1st - Reduce to 8 builds
Final Elimination - July 1st - Reduce to 4 builds
Challenge ends - September 14, 2016 (914 Day)

This ensures that all of the cars that start get to appear in the January issue of the magazine (mailed December 15th), before any are eliminated. April and July Eliminations are already aligned with the publication dates, so they don't need to change.

The only other option I see is to not eliminate anyone until April 1st. But, my concern with that is that April is 6 months away, and we want to keep it interesting. Not having anyone eliminated for 6 months may make the whole thing drag on too much. Opinions?

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 23 2015, 02:34 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 14 2015, 12:58 PM)

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 14 2015, 10:00 AM)

I like the idea, but after hanging out on this site a while I notice that many (most?) threads I see are guys that do this for a living and the work is done at a business. A few are guys that do something else for a living, and the car is... I hate to say hobby or that they are amateur because some of them are really good, but you get my point.

What I'm getting at is it might be cool to get a couple different projects from the ends of this spectrum and do a compare/contrast. It would sure help a guy like me to see how a pro approaches the various tasks of restoration, and especially how a pro would recommend an amateur approach the same thing. There is a ton of that on this site already and is the main reason I am here, but the more the better!

Most of us are amateurs and many of the DIY guys just stopped posting or finished the car long ago. Sir Andy (haha, spell check fixed it to So Randy) he built a whole sub forum for build threads, well worth the time to review all us hack builders, myself included

Posted by: jimkelly Sep 23 2015, 04:12 PM

i, for one, will be watching this build, very closely


Attached image(s)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 23 2015, 04:12 PM

I have been organizing the participants, and looking at the details of their builds. There are some really neat builds. And they all seem like a fair amount of work. We have every year car represented, and just about every region of the country. From stock cars to full tube chassis, they are all there. This should be fun.

If you haven't sent me the details of your build, the year and color of your car, your full name, email address, and where you are located, please PM it to me. We are asking everybody to send a picture of themselves and their car by Monday, via email. Please PM me and I will send you my email address.

Remember that your engine must either be out of the car on October 1st, or come out of the car after October 1st. So, don't put it in this weekend.

The Challenge starts October 1st.

Posted by: lonewolfe Sep 23 2015, 07:06 PM

I'm excited to see this start! Sounds like there will be a real learning curve for a few of us, myself included! I can't wait! It sounds like we have El Niño this winter in California so I'll save the indoor garage work for when and if the rain comes. We really need the rain so fingers are crossed. Thank you for putting this build challenge together! This should help keep my butt to the fire to get this car finally done. After months of rehab from surgery and not being able to do more than buy parts from my computer I'm super excited to start. October 1st is perfect timing as I should be healed up by then. Let the fun begin!

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 23 2015, 07:15 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 23 2015, 03:12 PM)

Posted by: d914 Sep 23 2015, 08:23 PM

does it matter that I have an 8 year head start... and at least another year to go... 850 miles away, need to finish the wiring, brakes exhaust, and get the engine running......!!!

suby turbo bare metal resto with almost every vendor trick item out there!!!!!

Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 23 2015, 08:32 PM

Oh and here I am freshly shaved and my hair done. Yes I plan on fitting in the car.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 23 2015, 08:37 PM

QUOTE(d914 @ Sep 23 2015, 10:23 PM)

Posted by: bandjoey Sep 24 2015, 09:36 AM

Enjoying reading this and it brought back super memories of the World members pulling together to help out a fellow member.

We did this in 48 hours...painted tub to driving. Newbies search Buttercup. It'll be fun following this new build off!


Attached image(s)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 24 2015, 09:40 AM

QUOTE(bandjoey @ Sep 24 2015, 11:36 AM)

Posted by: bandjoey Sep 24 2015, 09:50 AM

What about an opportunity say every 90 days for the builds to have a Saturday where other members can show up to pitch in and help? Think of it as catch-up for people with day jobs.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 24 2015, 10:28 AM

QUOTE(bandjoey @ Sep 24 2015, 11:50 AM)

Posted by: oldschool Sep 24 2015, 10:35 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 24 2015, 09:28 AM)

QUOTE(bandjoey @ Sep 24 2015, 11:50 AM)

What about an opportunity say every 90 days for the builds to have a Saturday where other members can show up to pitch in and help? Think of it as catch-up for people with day jobs.

I think there will be some opportunities for stuff like that. That would be very cool. And we are thinking about maybe doing a short video every 3 months of progress, etc., and then putting that all into a single DVD-type thing.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 24 2015, 10:38 AM

QUOTE(oldschool @ Sep 24 2015, 12:35 PM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 24 2015, 09:28 AM)

QUOTE(bandjoey @ Sep 24 2015, 11:50 AM)

What about an opportunity say every 90 days for the builds to have a Saturday where other members can show up to pitch in and help? Think of it as catch-up for people with day jobs.

I think there will be some opportunities for stuff like that. That would be very cool. And we are thinking about maybe doing a short video every 3 months of progress, etc., and then putting that all into a single DVD-type thing.

Now that sound great...Steve!

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 24 2015, 08:39 PM

Sponsorships hints.

Passive: When you do your project intro and to do list, specify the items you will need to acquire, thus letting potential providers make claims and offers.

Aggressive: Send your need-to-acquire list to businesses you frequent or are often supporters of our cause. Emphasize that it's part of something bigger (lots of viewers) and point them to the Challenge thread. Don't forget the paragraph about who you are and what you're doing, and why.

* Don't limit yourself to 914 parts. Electronics, tires, wheels, paint, shop equipment, and tool companies have good size marketing budgets and have been known to write checks for magazine mentions. The mag might even get a few new ad$ out of it.

Posted by: Reno914 Sep 25 2015, 04:34 AM

This is really reading to be an awesome event! So much so that i am looking to find a rolling chassis to enter the event and participate, anyone know of a rolling chassis near Reno nevada that someone would let go for such a purpose?

Thanks,
Reno

Posted by: budk Sep 25 2015, 04:44 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 23 2015, 12:02 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 25 2015, 11:56 AM

QUOTE(budk @ Sep 25 2015, 06:44 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 23 2015, 12:02 PM)

We need too adjust the first elimination date a little, to ensure that all of the builds get to be included in the magazine:

Here is what we are thinking:

Challenge begins - October 1st - I think we are up to 16 participants to start
First Elimination - January 15th - Reduce to 12 builds
Second Elimination - April 1st - Reduce to 8 builds
Final Elimination - July 1st - Reduce to 4 builds
Challenge ends - September 14, 2016 (914 Day)

This ensures that all of the cars that start get to appear in the January issue of the magazine (mailed December 15th), before any are eliminated. April and July Eliminations are already aligned with the publication dates, so they don't need to change.

The only other option I see is to not eliminate anyone until April 1st. But, my concern with that is that April is 6 months away, and we want to keep it interesting. Not having anyone eliminated for 6 months may make the whole thing drag on too much. Opinions?

What's the purpose of having eliminations at all? Shouldn't the goal be to the cars done and the stories that go along with that? I don't see how you can "vote someone off the island". I just want to see as many cars get back on the road as possible.

Posted by: Mikey914 Sep 25 2015, 12:14 PM

If this gets formalized I will support it by offering a discount on parts and for the winner (if there is a system that can be definitive), I will refund all parts purchased, free parts. You need to determine how to address this, but I think it's worthwhile.
I do need an official entry roster so that I can set everyone up, so I'll lease that up to Steve.
Good luck to all of you!

Posted by: stevegm Sep 25 2015, 01:06 PM

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Sep 25 2015, 02:14 PM)

Posted by: Mueller Sep 25 2015, 02:11 PM

I like it....

Not sure if my car would qualify or not since realisticly I wouldn't start working on it until early November...things it needs for sure:

Need to swap dead motor with running motor (have replacement motor, however it has a few broken exhaust studs)

Needs Hell hole sheetmetal replaced (got most of the new sheet metal for this...I hope...I have not lifted the car to look or cut out the damage to see how extensive it is)

I am sure there are many more small projects the car needs within that time frame!

Posted by: DirtyCossack Sep 25 2015, 02:12 PM

I am thinking of throwing my hat and 1973 1.7 into the ring. I've got mine pretty stripped and am currently cutting the rust out. I'm active duty Army, usually short on time and always pressed for money. It's been a really casually paced build so far, but I could use a kick in the ass. I'll make a full to do list, but it includes: rust repair, engine rebuild, paint, interior, full brake job, etc. Hoping to do a bunch of customizing and also need a forum for all of the pictures I take (I just need to finally learn to post photos).

Edit add: I am doing everything but machine shop stuff (heads, crank, etc) myself. Doing my own welding, paint, engine rebuild, interior, etc.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 25 2015, 02:37 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Sep 25 2015, 04:11 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 25 2015, 02:38 PM

QUOTE(DirtyCossack @ Sep 25 2015, 04:12 PM)

Posted by: r_towle Sep 25 2015, 03:20 PM

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Sep 25 2015, 02:14 PM)

Posted by: Mikey914 Sep 25 2015, 03:38 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 25 2015, 02:20 PM)

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Sep 25 2015, 02:14 PM)

If this gets formalized I will support it by offering a discount on parts and for the winner (if there is a system that can be definitive), I will refund all parts purchased, free parts. You need to determine how to address this, but I think it's worthwhile.
I do need an official entry roster so that I can set everyone up, so I'll lease that up to Steve.
Good luck to all of you!

Ok, now that is enough for me to go read this again and possibly enter.
We have a car ready to go here, and free parts would seal it for me.

Rich

Posted by: DirtyCossack Sep 25 2015, 05:59 PM

So has it been decided how we update our builds? Separate threads? Should I write up a background post for my teener and myself? Videos? Multimedia?

Or could our reporting techniques be part of the contest or at least be part of the judging criteria? As a guy with a background in journalism, public affairs, photo and video, that could play to my advantage...God knows I need all of the help I can get.

Posted by: Mikey914 Sep 25 2015, 06:14 PM

Seems like none of these are actually starting as a total strip down, a point system would allow more to compete, but it would have to also have a handicapping for those with a larger head start. Maybe have points that can be earned for each category, like tub up bare metal, sheet metal repair adder for longs, floor pan, ect. SO if you start with a cream puff, you can earn so much, but if you have more to do your potential score could be higher?

It would encourage those with an 8 year head start to participate at some level. The end goal being to have as many of these back on the road as possible.

Posted by: DirtyCossack Sep 25 2015, 06:34 PM

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Sep 25 2015, 07:14 PM)

Posted by: C-Ya MK Sep 25 2015, 07:54 PM

This sounds exciting and I'm looking forward to reading and seeing everyone's progress!

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 25 2015, 08:12 PM

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Sep 25 2015, 05:14 PM)

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:12 PM)

Posted by: dangerranger01 Sep 25 2015, 08:37 PM

Man, if i didn't live 110minute drive from my car I would be all over this like crazy!! All i want to do is wrench on my car, but i'm too far away to do that. If it was in my garage, i would wrench on it nearly every night.......sad panda...

And to get free 914Rubber parts is just the dream!!!!

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 04:33 AM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 25 2015, 10:12 PM)

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Sep 25 2015, 05:14 PM)

Seems like none of these are actually starting as a total strip down, a point system would allow more to compete, but it would have to also have a handicapping for those with a larger head start. Maybe have points that can be earned for each category, like tub up bare metal, sheet metal repair adder for longs, floor pan, ect. SO if you start with a cream puff, you can earn so much, but if you have more to do your potential score could be higher?

It would encourage those with an 8 year head start to participate at some level. The end goal being to have as many of these back on the road as possible.

Where have I heard that before......

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 22 2015, 11:12 PM)

Points system. (Inspired by Biggest Loser)

Not as simple but might be fairer since it seem that everyone is starting from a different place with a different list of objectives.

Give each objective a point value, say by time and/or dollars involved. Contestants can rack up points in any order. If you meet your points requirement for the quarter you continue. After ~6 months, lowest points gainer or 2 get eliminated every few weeks/month, with a comeback option if for the next period you are the highest gainer.

I guess my motivation is to keep the motivation to finish the car even if your out of the game.

I don't know if a dealer service manual with book time is floating around, or if something is on Alldata, but that would be the way to go for assigning points.

Somebody(s) will need to assign points, but still the person who does the most would win. Unless... we specify max possible points based on the smallest to do list, so the extra points in unjudged categories don't apply. Or there is the Concourse scale, XX points per category, max points for a full restoration = 914.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 04:36 AM

QUOTE(DirtyCossack @ Sep 25 2015, 07:59 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 04:47 AM

It was suggested to me yesterday that this should be called the - Save the 914 Build-Off Challenge, to promote the "cause," if you will (why didn't I think of that?). I admit it might be a better name than the 914 Build-Off Challenge (sorta generic), especially if we want the press to talk about the "cause" which is to get more cars back in the road. Opinions?

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 05:20 AM

We are up to 19 Challengers. That's awesome. I can't wait to watch the cars come back to life.

As I laid in bed last night, I thought I heard teeners all over talking with their spouses - "Honey, tomorrow we have to buy that 914 roller I been wanting. We can't wait any longer. There is this Challenge thing and we could win all of our parts for free, thanks to 914rubber."

Anybody else in?


Challengers - We need your pictures. So if you haven't sent one already, please email us a picture of yourself with your car. Send to - stevegm@mac.com

Also, if you haven't sent me your info we need:

Full name
Email address
City and state (country if international)
Year of car
Engine size (when finished)
Color of car
The 5 major things you need to accomplish to finish the car

Posted by: budk Sep 26 2015, 06:29 AM

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Sep 25 2015, 02:14 PM)

Posted by: 914forme Sep 26 2015, 07:29 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 26 2015, 06:47 AM)

Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 26 2015, 08:24 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 26 2015, 03:33 AM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 08:33 AM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Sep 26 2015, 10:24 AM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 26 2015, 03:33 AM)

There are a few that are starting with tubs. And even a tube frame project. So there is a wide range of amount of work between builds. That is what makes it hard. I thought we'd let the participants take that into account when they vote. I would like to formalize that some, maybe with points. I'm just not sure how that would work - how we mesh the point system in with the participant voting. Ideas?

Keep it simple. The participants will be able to tell who's putting the 'most' into their build. Sort of a free market principle...let the market decide.

Posted by: dakotaewing Sep 26 2015, 08:41 AM

I'll be happy to throw my hat in the ring for simply the sake of motivation for myself-
Just let me know if I would be mudding the waters.. Like others I have a very long term project that I would like to see finished.
My motto has become I need to finish this car before I die -

I'm working today, but will post additional comments tonight based on response -

Thanks,
Thom

Posted by: 914forme Sep 26 2015, 08:47 AM

Just do it at the end.

Points if you meet your major goals. 5 Points

If you do it concourse style, you will need rules, you will bind people in a certain build, somebody will game the system, most likely me, you will always have that guy.

Vote leaves it open, maybe do it like, we do COTM nominated, 2nd, then voting. At the end. If you want the vote to be done at events, we need to pick the events. Have a piece of paper we print off and display. And then a topic on, here that attendees can say this how good the car was, etc... then with that information, people we can vote on here. Owner can not vote for their own car would be the one and only rule. Open and then public decision.

Posted by: DirtyCossack Sep 26 2015, 09:29 AM

What about an old school "constitutional monarchy" type of voting system? "house of commons" and "house of lords" The builders are the "commons" that vote, but the largely silent "lords" use a point system that can prevent the top 1-3 builders of that particular voting cycle from being "wrongly" voted out? Maybe even a king that can have a single veto?

Does this make sense at all? I'm just really thinking that each "episode" needs some way for a "winner" to be free from being voted out, like on Survivor. Maybe completing one of your Big 5?

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 09:41 AM

QUOTE(DirtyCossack @ Sep 26 2015, 11:29 AM)

Posted by: 914forme Sep 26 2015, 11:17 AM

"In a sense we have a points system already set up:

A. Progress
B. Quality and Workmanship
C. Spirit"

All subjective, in any test you have to rule out the subject or else you get some guy like me, that will write on the top of your final exam. All the questions below are subjective questions, there for I am not answering any of them, due to the fact you can not grade my answers based on your perceptions. There for I get the highest score for my test you can bestow upon me. Boom A+

Yes I did that on a final in a class, to be fair the class was about testing and how to construct proper question, to get true results.

The only one that could be properly measured is Progress, as we (builders pre-determine the milestones of the build.

Unfortunately:
B. Quality and Workmanship - is subjective. Are we working on Monday morning Norwood Camaro Factory quality, or German, I just spent 5 years only allowed to use a file to shape metal quality? What is the grade where is the bar. One persons pig is another wife, where do we hold the line, and who sets that line. I am sure we will all agree is should be above Norwood on a Monday morning. But if I had a 1984 Camaro I was restoring to factory condition, does it mean I need to leave that 40oz that I found in the rear quarter panel, along with the 2 used condoms, and 5th of JB?

And don't get me started on Spirit, how the hell do you quantify that one? So if I jump around, hire U2, and put on a pyro show for my launch event, does that mean I have spirit? We are all a bunch of personalities, I think I have been channeling a few negative ones here, but then, I will steal the line form that ass hole at work. "I'm being the Devils Advocate." I'll shut up now, and go do a few things I need to do to meet the requirements of the build off. Like taking a picture of my ugly mug, with the engine out of my car.

Sorry for being "That guy", just trying to make sure we have a good clear goal line, and clearly defined goals.

For me my goals are as follows:
Fix rust
One solid color, maybe 3 if you count trim, and underside
EngineDrivetrain installed
Interior Installed


Here is my picture of the car engine less.



Yes thats James Dean back there.

Here is me:

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 12:42 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Sep 26 2015, 01:17 PM)

"In a sense we have a points system already set up:

A. Progress
B. Quality and Workmanship
C. Spirit"

All subjective, in any test you have to rule out the subject or else you get some guy like me, that will write on the top of your final exam. All the questions below are subjective questions, there for I am not answering any of them, due to the fact you can not grade my answers based on your perceptions. There for I get the highest score for my test you can bestow upon me. Boom A+

Yes I did that on a final in a class, to be fair the class was about testing and how to construct proper question, to get true results.

The only one that could be properly measured is Progress, as we (builders pre-determine the milestones of the build.

Unfortunately:
B. Quality and Workmanship - is subjective. Are we working on Monday morning Norwood Camaro Factory quality, or German, I just spent 5 years only allowed to use a file to shape metal quality? What is the grade where is the bar. One persons pig is another wife, where do we hold the line, and who sets that line. I am sure we will all agree is should be above Norwood on a Monday morning. But if I had a 1984 Camaro I was restoring to factory condition, does it mean I need to leave that 40oz that I found in the rear quarter panel, along with the 2 used condoms, and 5th of JB?

And don't get me started on Spirit, how the hell do you quantify that one? So if I jump around, hire U2, and put on a pyro show for my launch event, does that mean I have spirit? We are all a bunch of personalities, I think I have been channeling a few negative ones here, but then, I will steal the line form that ass hole at work. "I'm being the Devils Advocate." I'll shut up now, and go do a few things I need to do to meet the requirements of the build off. Like taking a picture of my ugly mug, with the engine out of my car.

Sorry for being "That guy", just trying to make sure we have a good clear goal line, and clearly defined goals.

For me my goals are as follows:
Fix rust
One solid color, maybe 3 if you count trim, and underside
EngineDrivetrain installed
Interior Installed

Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 26 2015, 12:44 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 26 2015, 08:41 AM)

QUOTE(DirtyCossack @ Sep 26 2015, 11:29 AM)

What about an old school "constitutional monarchy" type of voting system? "house of commons" and "house of lords" The builders are the "commons" that vote, but the largely silent "lords" use a point system that can prevent the top 1-3 builders of that particular voting cycle from being "wrongly" voted out? Maybe even a king that can have a single veto?

Does this make sense at all? I'm just really thinking that each "episode" needs some way for a "winner" to be free from being voted out, like on Survivor. Maybe completing one of your Big 5?

We don't want to vote anybody out along the way. But, we want to do a voting to establish who is in the lead, so to speak, along the way. This will happen in January, April, and July. To keep it interesting. I think we have that figured out. We are just debating whether to use a point system in this voting, and at the end for the final vote.

In a sense we have a points system already set up:

A. Progress
B. Quality and Workmanship
C. Spirit

Each is on a scale of 1 to 10 (with 10 being the best). So it is a possible total of 30 points at each vote.

The final vote needs to add the category - Finished Car. So the final vote would be 40 points total. We can also add some categories for - interior, engine, etc. = and do separate awards for those as well.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 01:25 PM

I am working on a points system.

Here is a first stab at converting the original voting system into a points system. I know the categories are a little subjective. But, remember that they have to be to accommodate the wide-range of builds here. Not everyone is doing the same thing to their car. The more you narrow it, the more you exclude builds.

And also it is the participants that do the voting (along with 914world members). There are a lot of participants voting. Around 20 right now. And you can't vote for yourself. So it would seem extremely difficult to game this. I think there is wisdom in crowds. I believe they will get it right. And, no matter how detailed and pedantic we get, ultimately it is about getting the cars back on the road. Endless rules can be a bottomless rabbit hole. Just my .02.

I'd really love to hear from some of the participants, and sponsors, and senior members (who have built cars before), and newbies, and, and, and, on this voting system. Does it seem fair? What do you think? Suggestions?




The system divides the voting equally among participants and 914world members. So the winners are determined 1/2 by the participants, and 1/2 by 914world poll votes. It also allows each build to acquire points along the way, but, no one gets kicked off. This will allow people that get off to a slow start, or run into unforeseen challenges, to potentially catch up.

The voting system uses a 10 points scale which makes voting easier. Each poll asks the voter to rate the build, from 1 to 10, in each category. Each build is rated separately. Then the points are tallied, to arrive at the total points per build. The winners are determined by the number of votes they acquire.

PREMILINARY VOTING STAGES:

January 15, 2016
A. Progress - 10 points
B. Quality and Workmanship - 10 points
C. 914 Spirit* - 10 points

Total: 30 points


April 1, 2016
A. Progress - 10 points
B. Quality and Workmanship - 10 points
C. 914 Spirit* - 10 points

Total: 30 points


July 1, 2016
A. Progress - 10 points
B. Quality and Workmanship - 10 points
C. 914 Spirit* - 10 points
D. Difficulty of build - 10 points (this category is delayed because difficulty is something that may take some time to play out in some of these builds (who knows what lurks under that paint), and delaying it also balanced the numbers out to an even 100 points in the preliminary stage.)

Total: 40 points


During the preliminary voting stages, each build can acquire a maximum total of 100 votes from each Challenger, and an equal number of votes from the 914world members poll. (So if there are 20 Challengers, each build can get 1,900 points (exclude themselves) from Challengers, and 1,900 points from the 914world members poll.


FINAL VOTING STAGE:

A. Completion of car - 20 points
B. Quality and Workmanship - 20 points
C. 914 Spirit* - 20 points
D. Difficulty of build - 20 points
E. “Best” category - 20 points

Total: 100 points


During the Final Voting Stage, each build can acquire a maximum of 100 votes from each Challenger, and an equal number of votes from the 914world members poll. (So if there are 20 Challengers, each build can get 1,900 points (exclude themselves) from Challengers, and 1,900 points from the 914world members poll.


The maximum votes a build can acquire during the entire build-off is 200 points from each Challenger, and an equal number of points from the 914world member poll.

So for example, if there are 20 Challengers (19 voters, since no one can vote for themselves), the maximum number of points that a Challengers can acquire are:

1,900 points from Preliminary Challenger Voting
1,900 points from Preliminary 914world polling

1,900 points from Final Challenger Voting
1,900 points from Final 914world polling



*Spirit is for things that show the 914world spirit, like working through a ton of challenges, helping other Challengers, working through the holidays (while ignoring the family - just kidding), 914 attitude, etc.

Posted by: DirtyCossack Sep 26 2015, 02:28 PM

I think that is pretty much perfect.

Posted by: 914forme Sep 26 2015, 04:21 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 26 2015, 02:42 PM)

This cracked me up, because I am always blown away by the stuff students write on the top of their exams to the professor. As I was reading your post I thought - "Hey, I think I know this guy. I think I failed him on one of my exams last semester."

Stay tuned. It will be a great Build-Off.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 26 2015, 04:27 PM

Now that you've come up with a system, let me say some things to really mess with your brain

Since no one loses by being voted out, then a winner can be totally subjective. There is no reason the Mag, as Challenge host, can't choose winners by itself. That is usually how contests are managed. Come up with 20+ awards, as serious or silly as you want. You can easily do a 3 way tie for outstanding results in a single category. I'm sure the push to finish the car is really all participants want out of it.

Things could change in the next 12 months, but it doesn't seem like there will be a $10,000 grand prize. So really nothing to be cheated from if it isn't 100% fair.

Sponsors, like 914rubber, can choose their winner based on their own criteria. It works that way in Boxing. MGM Las Vegas

-----

Speaking of Boxing, maybe a 20 point ranking of all participants, once a month based on submitted pics and stories. Complicated to sort ~20 builds but it would prevent numerous perfect scores.

-----

Maybe just raffle the prize(s) at the end to participants that complete the requirements?

-----

Or go one step further with the raffle. Assign a ticket value to jobs. 1 ticket for a half day's task. R&R front or rear brakes = 1 ticket. R&R engine = 2 tickets. Rebuilt your own engine = xx tickets. Pay Raby for engine = peace of mind. At the end raffle for valuable prizes. 3 experts could assign values pretty easily then you have a published points system.

Add a ticket value to awards.

Requirements have to be met to use tickets in raffle.

Allow participants to choose which prizes to put tickets into. That way they get something they would like.

-----

I'm not sure about the quality/workmanship category. I think owners are going to do the best job they can. In a way this punishes those that want to do, say welding, themselves but aren't all that experienced. As a community we encourage DIY and innovation, but we have also seen some ugly results. Given that we don't own the car, who are we to judge.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 26 2015, 04:37 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 26 2015, 06:27 PM)

Now that you've come up with a system, let me say some things to really mess with your brain

Since no one loses by being voted out, then a winner can be totally subjective. There is no reason the Mag, as Challenge host, can't choose winners by itself. That is usually how contests are managed. Come up with 20+ awards, as serious or silly as you want. You can easily do a 3 way tie for outstanding results in a single category. I'm sure the push to finish the car is really all participants want out of it.

Things could change in the next 12 months, but it doesn't seem like there will be a $10,000 grand prize. So really nothing to be cheated from if it isn't 100% fair.

Sponsors, like 914rubber, can choose their winner based on their own criteria. It works that way in Boxing. MGM Las Vegas

-----

Speaking of Boxing, maybe a 20 point ranking of all participants, once a month based on submitted pics and stories. Complicated to sort ~20 builds but it would prevent numerous perfect scores.

-----

Maybe just raffle the prize(s) at the end to participants that complete the requirements?

-----

Or go one step further with the raffle. Assign a ticket value to jobs. 1 ticket for a half day's task. R&R front or rear brakes = 1 ticket. R&R engine = 2 tickets. Rebuilt your own engine = xx tickets. Pay Raby for engine = peace of mind. At the end raffle for valuable prizes. 3 experts could assign values pretty easily then you have a published points system.

Add a ticket value to awards.

Requirements have to be met to use tickets in raffle.

Allow participants to choose which prizes to put tickets into. That way they get something they would like.

-----

I'm not sure about the quality/workmanship category. I think owners are going to do the best job they can. In a way this punishes those that want to do, say welding, themselves but aren't all that experienced. As a community we encourage DIY and innovation, but we have also seen some ugly results. Given that we don't own the car, who are we to judge.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 26 2015, 09:34 PM

I wish we knew each other because I want you to take this as a friend.

It's time to start with a blank sheet.

If you are not willing to judge, based on your parameters, then how are 20 strangers in competition supposed to? Using the teacher analogy, you're asking your students to grade each others essay questions. You want content for the mag, then own it. If you want a winner, then the Mag needs to pony up a prize.

Since the ~20 participants live in 20 different cities, how are they supposed to judge quality? Pics not showing the shortcuts won't cut it. Not a useable category.

Spirit? I don't see how that fits in, assuming you can figure out how to test and grade it.
-----

Let's work through the questions. Answer as you wish.

1) What is the goal of the challenge?
Get more cars on the road if it was me.

2) How to drive participation?
Rewards- discounts, prizes.
Peer pressure & support.

3) How to get cars finished?
Rewards only for finished cars.

-----
At this point I'm really liking the raffle ticket idea. The more you do yourself the better chance to win something. Not very time consuming, specially for contestants. No judging (always biased).
Honestly, how would you choose a winner between the restored yellow 6 (sorry forgot your screen name), the Audi swap (Mike_Bellis), and the Alien?

-----
More raffle ideas. Quarterly drawings for smaller $25-$50 stuff (like side stripes, seals, tune-up kits), to help the build progress. Cutoff and drawings at publish dates, see Mag for winners.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 27 2015, 12:10 AM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 26 2015, 08:34 PM)

Posted by: Mueller Sep 27 2015, 12:33 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 26 2015, 11:10 PM)

QUOTE(stevegm @ Sep 26 2015, 12:25 PM)

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 26 2015, 03:27 PM)

Posted by: AndyB Sep 27 2015, 04:57 AM

Bottom line up front you make the rules and I will follow them. When I get back from Connecticut this afternoon I will send photos and update all the info needed. Thanks for the kick in the pants to get me moving.

Andy

Posted by: Vysoc Sep 27 2015, 06:35 AM

That's it Steve, this is a perfect opportunity to kick start my 914-6 GT Project...Therefore I am now in.

THREAD NAME will be "Yellow Submarine"
1976 Chassis VIN:4762900508
Fiberglas Flares currently on car and are the cars greatest asset at this point.
Rust in the following areas:
*-Hell Hole - 80% Repaired.
*-Floor Boards removed and waiting for new floor boards to be welded in as well as extensive repair to tunnel and firewall.
*-Trunk-minor.
*-Door Jambs
*-Slight Collision damage; 1) Front Right Quarter inside wheel well.
2) Rear Right -Under Bondo (I don't like this-Fix it right)

Engine going in Flat 6 - 2.5 in a 2.7 1974 7R Case with Zenith Carbs this may change. Four Engine mounts have been removed by me.
Strengthening Kit's going in: Engman Kit / Weltmeister Rear Suspension Kit / McMark's Roll Bar / Rear Swing Arms have been Boxed by me.
Rear Suspension Ears will be beefed up after seeing Bob Saville's ear break prior to Okteenerfest.
New Console for Interior along with Custom Sparco 914 Seats, remainder of interior will be done rather "SPARTAN STYLE".
All suspension has been converted to 5 Lug just need to go through and have shocks rechecked and repaint everything.
Color has not been determined yet at this point but after seeing so many great colors at Okteenerfest my head is still spinning.
Wheels: Front - I have 2-16 x 7" Fuchs in great shape I just need to clean them up and repaint in the RSR Finish.
Rear - 2-17x9" Fuchs Rota in the RSR Finish - these are spectacular.
I also still have my 15 x 7" & 15 x 8" Fuchs from my 1980 911SC Weissach Edition - Which can be put on this project for authenticity.


Thanks,

Vysoc

Posted by: stevegm Sep 27 2015, 07:44 AM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 26 2015, 11:34 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 27 2015, 07:51 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 27 2015, 02:10 AM)

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 26 2015, 08:34 PM)

I wish we knew each other because I want you to take this as a friend.

It's time to start with a blank sheet.

If you are not willing to judge, based on your parameters, then how are 20 strangers in competition supposed to? Using the teacher analogy, you're asking your students to grade each others essay questions. You want content for the mag, then own it. If you want a winner, then the Mag needs to pony up a prize.

Since the ~20 participants live in 20 different cities, how are they supposed to judge quality? Pics not showing the shortcuts won't cut it. Not a useable category.

Spirit? I don't see how that fits in, assuming you can figure out how to test and grade it.
-----

Let's work through the questions. Answer as you wish.

1) What is the goal of the challenge?
Get more cars on the road if it was me.

2) How to drive participation?
Rewards- discounts, prizes.
Peer pressure & support.

3) How to get cars finished?
Rewards only for finished cars.

-----
At this point I'm really liking the raffle ticket idea. The more you do yourself the better chance to win something. Not very time consuming, specially for contestants. No judging (always biased).
Honestly, how would you choose a winner between the restored yellow 6 (sorry forgot your screen name), the Audi swap (Mike_Bellis), and the Alien?

-----
More raffle ideas. Quarterly drawings for smaller $25-$50 stuff (like side stripes, seals, tune-up kits), to help the build progress. Cutoff and drawings at publish dates, see Mag for winners.

I agree with everything said here.

Another thing that I want to point out is this can easily get into being a popularity contest. Seasoned members like myself have an unfair advantage to new members if this becomes a board vote.

The other concern is that certain builds have more "street cred" than others... For example if someone was to put a carbed 1.8 into a big bumper 75 with a rattle can paint job and some used interior. For them the work involved would be very similar to a factory 6 build where the owner farmed out the paint and interior and is throwing back the motor back in place as it was running perfect..


IMHO The "Build off" needs to be time and accomplishment based. If there is fabrication work involved the builder should judge their work and report it in the post. Same goes for a build with no fab work, the owner needs to judge based on meticulousness and concourse level of their build.

While I like sponsors getting involved I think it could actually hurt this competition. This will make it a prized based competition instead of the accomplished based competition that it was in the beginning. Look at how much your are working on revising things to work within a parameter just to make a "winner". The winners need to be everyone who completes their build in the time-frame allowed. NOT a single individual. If the vendors want to come up with a special prize for THIS, such as maybe a trophy, a special plaque, a keychain, vest,ect.

Not all builds can utilize parts from vendors. Sure 914rubber has a bunch of parts and most likely everyone will purchase SOMETHING from Mark in the next year, but its not 100%, and where is the prize for that individual if they win?


That all being said, Steve I'll send you the details for my car tomorrow...

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 27 2015, 07:55 AM

Has the completion date been establishished? Or is it 'sometime this decade'?

Posted by: stevegm Sep 27 2015, 08:10 AM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Sep 27 2015, 09:55 AM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 27 2015, 02:01 PM

With over 20 builds participating, and very generous sponsor prizes, we need to formalize how a winner will be chosen. I have been working with the sponsors to come up with a system. I think we almost have it figured out.

We are working through the best way to account for the extent of each build. To do that we are going to need to identify some key aspects of each build. We will be requesting photos that help us determine your starting point. In particular, we will be asking that you email photos of the current state of the car, engine bay, engine (if you have it), and interior. You can email them to - stevegm@mac.com Please make sure to include your 914world screen name.

Since it is the weekend, I figured I'd mention it now so you can take those pictures. Details of the voting structure should be posted in a day or so.

Posted by: lonewolfe Sep 27 2015, 02:43 PM

Have any other vendors stepped up other than Mark at 914 Rubber?

Posted by: DirtyCossack Sep 27 2015, 02:55 PM

QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Sep 27 2015, 03:43 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 27 2015, 03:17 PM

QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Sep 27 2015, 04:43 PM)

Posted by: AndyB Sep 27 2015, 06:13 PM

If we are trying to solicit donations from vendors then I will remove myself from the list. It's one thing to announce it at the end but I disagree with prizes as the whole thing is subjective.

Posted by: Mueller Sep 27 2015, 06:38 PM

QUOTE(AndyB @ Sep 27 2015, 05:13 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 27 2015, 06:50 PM

QUOTE(AndyB @ Sep 27 2015, 08:13 PM)

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 27 2015, 07:06 PM

Correction, 914rubber has offered the discount and prize.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 27 2015, 07:10 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 27 2015, 09:06 PM)

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 27 2015, 11:18 PM

Sent my email. Took me a while to narrow down the items into 5 categories.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 28 2015, 09:55 AM

If you have not submitted your info please email it to me at - stevegm@mac.com

We need:
Full name
Email address
Location
Year of car
Color of car
Engine
A very general list of the 5 major tasks you intend to complete during the Challenge

A photo of yourself with your car
A photo of the car by itself
A photo of the engine bay
A photo of the engine (if you have it)

Posted by: budk Sep 28 2015, 04:45 PM

So is it still open until the end of the day tomorrow ?

Are you still planning on allowing a large participation or limiting it to a handful of selected participants (as discussed in this thread)?

It appears that there are challenges either way you go. I think trying to select a winner based on votes is the biggest challenge since everyone is starting at a different place, so will be doing work themselves while others are paying someone to do it.... not to mention that defining "finished" is tough as well. Voting is subjective and like it or not it will be affected by popularity, either of the car or of the builder.

Therefore, I believe trying to pick a winner is unnecessary. All the participants and the 914 community in general will be winners for getting something done on their cars and hopefully a lot of the cars will be back on the road come 9/14/16.

I like the idea of discounts for participants from any vendor willing to help and a random drawing for a prize(s) at the end with everyone who participates eligible.
JMHO

I thank you for getting this started.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 28 2015, 04:56 PM

QUOTE(budk @ Sep 28 2015, 06:45 PM)

So is it still open until the end of the day tomorrow ?

Are you still planning on allowing a large participation or limiting it to a handful of selected participants (as discussed in this thread)?

It appears that there are challenges either way you go. I think trying to select a winner based on votes is the biggest challenge since everyone is starting at a different place, so will be doing work themselves while others are paying someone to do it.... not to mention that defining "finished" is tough as well. Voting is subjective and like it or not it will be affected by popularity, either of the car or of the builder.

Therefore, I believe trying to pick a winner is unnecessary. All the participants and the 914 community in general will be winners for getting something done on their cars and hopefully a lot of the cars will be back on the road come 9/14/16.

I like the idea of discounts for participants from any vendor willing to help and a random drawing for a prize(s) at the end with everyone who participates eligible.
JMHO

I thank you for getting this started.

Posted by: r_towle Sep 28 2015, 06:18 PM

Can those of us who are having a hard time NOT filling your other presumptuous thread with all sorts of fun more and drivel post it all here?

You must be crazy or a control freak posting a thread like that and believing it will be left alone....it's far to tempting.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 28 2015, 06:23 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 28 2015, 08:18 PM)

Posted by: whitetwinturbo Sep 28 2015, 06:58 PM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 14 2015, 07:00 AM)

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 28 2015, 07:06 PM

Survivor is like The Apprentice. The team that loses the 'weekly' task votes off their weakest member.
-----
Regarding points. My background is Dealer mechanic. I don't see 2000 little tasks. I see larger significant tasks that can be summarized as half day and full day, with some being several days (like paint or rebuilding a trans). I was actually thinking someone with experience, possibly me, create a list of common tasks, then the participants fill in the numbers, then take the average of all 20-25 for the official scorecard. It's essentially what OEMs do with "book time" for warranty repairs.

For example, re-plated hardware. Doesn't need to be done to have a functional driver, but it does add value, so 1 ticket awarded, if you DIY. Doesn't matter if done all at once or some in Dec then some more in Mar. Actual labor, not wait time, for everything is half day.
-----
Revisiting the hardware example. Not doing points and putting emphasis on quality, as you push for, increases the value of plating in the bigger picture of choosing a winner. You just need to be careful as you specify the criteria the 25 judges will be voting on. Is it workmanship or pretty?
-----
A suggestion. Next time your students do a group grading, ask them who the overall winner is and why. They might have a good answer.
----
You would probably like The Hero competition TV series hosted by Dwayne Johnson.

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 29 2015, 08:25 AM

i think 3 threads on the first page related to your endeavors (magazine) is more than plenty. but that's just my take on it. and posting a thread that we're not supposed to reply to? that you want to be highlighted?

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Sep 29 2015, 01:45 PM

I guess I'm in this thing and I had intended on starting a build thread for my car, (still may) but I got to thinking ..... Are we going to have 25 build threads? 1 for each participant. That would fill up the first page pretty quickly. I do like Cary's thread, and like seeing what he is doing next, even as humbling as it is to me.
I know if the threads were stuck in a different section than the garage most people won't look at them.. Unless maybe they are also participants.
Now I may be overestimating how much people will post about their builds. I really haven't put in a lot about mine.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 29 2015, 01:58 PM

QUOTE(Olympic 1.7 @ Sep 29 2015, 03:45 PM)

I guess I'm in this thing and I had intended on starting a build thread for my car, (still may) but I got to thinking ..... Are we going to have 25 build threads? 1 for each participant. That would fill up the first page pretty quickly. I do like Cary's thread, and like seeing what he is doing next, even as humbling as it is to me.
I know if the threads were stuck in a different section than the garage most people won't look at them.. Unless maybe they are also participants.
Now I may be overestimating how much people will post about their builds. I really haven't put in a lot about mine.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 29 2015, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(Olympic 1.7 @ Sep 29 2015, 12:45 PM)

I guess I'm in this thing and I had intended on starting a build thread for my car, (still may) but I got to thinking ..... Are we going to have 25 build threads? 1 for each participant. That would fill up the first page pretty quickly. I do like Cary's thread, and like seeing what he is doing next, even as humbling as it is to me.
I know if the threads were stuck in a different section than the garage most people won't look at them.. Unless maybe they are also participants.
Now I may be overestimating how much people will post about their builds. I really haven't put in a lot about mine.

Posted by: crawler Sep 29 2015, 05:51 PM

My build is going to start 1/5/2016.This 1974 1.7 has been siting for years, and needs everything! Body work will be 916 steel fenders and it needs blasting to remove all of the old paint and junk. Engine,you will know when I do.This car will be what a 914 should have been,sadly not with Porsche parts. I would like to be in this Challenge.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 29 2015, 08:28 PM

After reviewing other build-offs and discussing it with the sponsors at length, below is what we came up with. We wanted to post them for comments, before they are finalized.

Hopefully, the honor the original goal of a fun build to get more 914s on the road, and at the same time reward the builds fairly. A lot of time was spent trying to design a system that recognizes that a full tub restoration is a lot more work than one that does not include a complete tear-down, but, also has less likelihood of being finished during the Challenge. In addition, the system takes quality of workmanship into account.

RULES


I. PARTICIPATION CRITERIA

A. The build must include removal of the engine. If the engine is already removed from the car prior to the start date of the Challenge, this qualifies as removal.
B. The build must include significant rust, accident, or paint and bodywork.
C. The build must include significant interior work.

To participate in the Challenge, each build must provide sufficient, and all requested, documentation to establish that they meet the participation criteria.

II. GENERAL RULES
A single 914world thread will be started for the Challenge. Only Challengers and the organizers of the Challenge may post in such thread.

A. Posting Requirements
Challengers will be required to post in the main Challenge thread at least once each month of the Challenge. They are permitted to post at any point during such month. Such post must include:

1. A brief description of the progress made on their build.
2. Any unexpected challenges they encountered that month, and how those challenges were handled.
3. Whether any shops/vendors provided any services for their build during that month, and the value of such services.
4. A photo of the build’s progress.

Challengers are encouraged to maintain their own build thread on 914world. However, no information in such thread can be guaranteed to be used by voters in the casting of points. The organizers of the Challenge request that any Challengers that maintain their own build thread, title such thread as - Save the 914 Build-Off Challenge - ___Challengers info____, during the challenge, so that the build thread can be easily located by viewers.

The priorate of the Challenge is for the Challengers to do the work associated with their build themselves. They can, however, solicit the help of friends, family, other Challengers, etc. No mentors will be assigned, but, they are not prohibited. Challengers can use shops. However, most of the work must be done by the Challenger, and any services provide, as well as the value of such services, whether paid for or not, must be disclosed in the main Challenge thread. The organizers of the Challenge reserve the right to disqualify any Challenger for either raffling to disclose such work, or not performing most of the work on the build.themselves. Challengers are permitted to obtain individual build sponsors, but, such sponsorships must be disclosed in the main Challenge thread, and may not exceed $3,500 in value (money, parts, services, etc.).

III. POINT SYSTEM

1. Voters:
To determine winners points will be cast by two groups:
A. Challenger poll
B. 914world poll

The Challenger poll is weighted with 75% of the overall vote, while the 914world poll is weighted with 25% of the points at each voting stage.

2. Voting Stages:
There will be four Voting Stages:

January
April
July
September

Note: The actual voting will occur just prior to the Voting Stage date, so that the points can be announced on such date.

3. Voting Areas:
At each of the above Voting Stages, voters will cast points based three areas:

i. Progress
ii. Difficulty
iii. Quality of Workmanship

4. Tallying Points:

At each Voting Stage, the Challengers and 914world members cast votes, which are tallied. For the preliminary voting stages (January, April, and July), the total tallied votes for each build determines the number of points each build accumulates at that stage, and a running order as of that date is announced.

After the final stage of voting, the total points for all voting stage will be tallied, including the final vote, and the winners will be determined based on accumulated points. By way of example, the build with the most points wins first place, the build with the second most points wins third place, etc. Regardless of points earned, finishing the car, including titling and registering the vehicle is required to place in the top three places of the Challenge.

5. Voting Polls:

A. 914world Poll (25% weight):

At each Voting Stage, a public poll advertised in the Challenge’s thread will solicit votes of 914world members. Each voter will rank the builds based on the following categories:

i. Progress
ii. Difficulty
iii. Quality of Workmanship

The 914world voters can assign any weights to each of these categories as they see fit. Once the 914world members have ranked the builds, the votes will be tallied, and points will be assigned to each build based on the following point system:

1st place - 33 points
2nd place - 28 points
3rd place - 24 points
4th place - 20 points
5th place - 17 points
6th place - 15 points
7th place - 13 points
8th place - 11 points
9th place - 9 points
10th place - 7 points
11th place through the total number of builds - 5 points

B. Challenger Poll (75% weight):

At each Voting Stage, Challengers will cast points for individual builds, based on the following areas:

i. Progress
ii. Difficulty
iii. Quality of Workmanship

The Challengers will be asked to cast points on a 1 to 10 scale for each build, other than their own build, each each of the above areas.

Once all of the points have been cast by Challengers, the organizers of the Challenge will tally the notes for each build. After the points are tallied, the organizers of the Challenge will weight the points based on the category of each specific build.

6. Build Categories:

The builds are split into categories, based on the three main primary elements of the build, with definitions of each as follows:

A. Restoration Type:
1. Full Tub - The tub be striped of every bolt-on part.
2. Partial Tub - The tub is not stripped over every bolt-on part, but, but the front and rear (all four struts, rear trailing arms, and front steering rack) suspension is removed.
3. Light Tub - The suspension is not removed.

B. Paint:
1. Full Paint - The tub is stripped of all paint (both exterior and inner surfaces.
2. Outer Full Paint - The tub is stripped of all paint on the outside surfaces (fenders, doors, quarter panels, Hood, trunk lid, and engine lid.
3. Partial Paint - The tub, or some portion thereof, is painted, but, not stripped of all paint prior to painting.

C. Engine Rebuild:
1. Full rebuild - The engine is fully disassembled, including splitting the case. If the engine is a type in which the case can not be split, then all parts are completely removed from the engine.
2. Top-End Rebuild - the engine is disassembled down to the removal of the cylinders. If the engine is type that does not have removable cylinders, the heads are removed.
3. Clean-up - The engine is removed from, or already out of, the car.

Any combination of build, related to the three primary areas above is possible. For example, a car that is a Full Tub Restoration, with an Outer Full Paint, and a Clean-op of the engine, would be coded: A, 2, c. All builds will initially be classified in the lowest rank in each of the above categories. Organizers of the Challenge will determine the respective category of each build for each Voting Stage, 1 week prior to such Voting Stage Date. Category determination is in the sole discretion of the Organizers of the Challenge. It is the responsibility of the Challengers to provide the organizers of the Challenge with sufficient, as well as all requested, documentation to enable the organizers to determine the appropriate category of each build.

Since build categories will be determined prior to each Voting Stage, the builds have the opportunity to change categories prior to each Voting Stage.

7. Build Category Weights:
After the points are tallied, the organizers of the Challenge will weight the points based on the category of each specific build, using the following weights:

A. Restoration Type:
1. Full Tub - 33% weight
2. Partial Tub - 30% weight
3. Light Tub - 25% weight

B. Paint:
1. Full Paint - 33% weight
2. Outer Full Paint - 30% weight
3. Partial Paint - 25% points possible

C. Engine:
1. Full Rebuild - 33% weight
2. Top-End Rebuild - 30% weight
3. Clean-up - 25% weight

8. Bonus Points:

Documenting the builds is of extreme importance to the Challenge. Bonus points will be awarded through the Challenger voting based on how well the build is documented. Documentation includes 914world thread posts, photographs, video, budgets, receipts, etc.. In addition, bonus points can be earned for the following activities: Replacement of the inner or outer longitudinal (Left or right. Only one bonus can be earned for replacement of a longitudinal), complete hell hole frame repair, replacement of a suspension console (Left or right. Only one bonus can be earned for replacement of a suspension console). Finally, the organizers anticipate Wild Card opportunities to accumulate additional points, and reserve the right to add such opportunities to the Challenge.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 29 2015, 11:42 PM

Very interesting read.

My biggest issue is that the difficulty portion for weighting does not deal with modifications, simply restoring.


As someone who's entire build is based on making and modifying parts(and I know I'm not the only one) this seems to put me at a slight disadvantage to someone who is cleaning/painting and bolting new parts on .


I must say that you are putting a substantial amount of work into this and I applaud you for all your effort

Posted by: lonewolfe Sep 30 2015, 12:03 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 29 2015, 10:42 PM)

Very interesting read.

My biggest issue is that the difficulty portion for weighting does not deal with modifications, simply restoring.


As someone who's entire build is based on making and modifying parts(and I know I'm not the only one) this seems to put me at a slight disadvantage to someone who is cleaning/painting and bolting new parts on .


I must say that you are putting a substantial amount of work into this and I applaud you for all your effort

Posted by: Stacks914 Sep 30 2015, 01:46 AM

I have an issue with builds being three years old and then now they get to participate. Anyways I also have an issue with basically having a 914 body on everything else!! giving that this is a 914 site..lol Anyways everyone is going to have issues so Steve set some rules and lets be done with it. I will maintain my own build though I simply do not have time to post 2 build threads and I am sorry about this look into other peoples projects too much. As much as I would love to look at everyones build its time that I am losing working on my car!!! Can we talk the mods into a "build off" subforum with each participants build in there in its own thread and thats it??

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 05:27 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 30 2015, 01:42 AM)

Very interesting read.

My biggest issue is that the difficulty portion for weighting does not deal with modifications, simply restoring.


As someone who's entire build is based on making and modifying parts(and I know I'm not the only one) this seems to put me at a slight disadvantage to someone who is cleaning/painting and bolting new parts on .


I must say that you are putting a substantial amount of work into this and I applaud you for all your effort

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 05:43 AM

What about:

A. The weighting of the different categories of projects.
B. The points spread for the 914world poll.

Do these seem right?

We want to make sure that the way points are distributed is fair, and keeps it interesting. We want to reward the full bare-tub resto, but, still make it possible for the person that is not doing that sort of complete tear-down to win. Since the bare-tub resto is so time consuming those builds have a tough road to complete on time. But, the ones that have a 3 year head start may have a lot of the work already done. Still, working from a bare tub, painting, and then putting it all back together, is still a tough thing to do in a year.

Keep in mind that the categories are based on what still remains to be done. So, if the car was already stripped to a bare tub it is classified as a Light Tub. The only way to get the top level category (like Full Tub, Full Paint, Full Rebuild) is to actually do that work during the Challenge, which although provides a higher weighting of points, makes for a serious time crunch. Mark and I talked about this aspect a lot, and I think it makes the system fair for the different types of builds and starting points.

Posted by: jkb944t Sep 30 2015, 06:14 AM

I would think that doing an engine modification from a four cylinder to a six cylinder would be equivalent to rebuilding a stock four cylinder from the ground up. It would also be far more difficult to rebuild a six cylinder from the ground up than a four cylinder.

Jeff B

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 06:22 AM

QUOTE(jkb944t @ Sep 30 2015, 08:14 AM)

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Sep 30 2015, 07:40 AM

I really appreciate the incredible amount of work Steve has put into this.

But it seems to be moving from a FUN build-off challenge into something else.

Next we will be requesting points for having other obligations such as a full time job vs. part time / retired or I have more children than you.

Some may have objections about what category they are placed in.. or being at the fringes of a category.

Will there be an Arbitration panel set up to review, rule on, and settle such instances?

will we need to have an attorney review each post before submitting?

C'mon guys lighten up.

I'm in because I like the little extra incentive it will provide. and when my car finally pulls out of the driveway under its own power, I'll be so happy I'll have to sit on both my hands to keep from waving at everybody....

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 30 2015, 07:45 AM

I think your being far to specific with the categories.

I believe that for the points system you need to do the following:

Each participant gave 5 aspects of their build, lets judge each one individually based on those aspects and a 1-10 rank based on progress, difficulty, and workmanship. For each voting period only the top two categories will be added up for each individual (judges will vote on all 5) to encurage a streemlined focus from the builder and continuity for your articles. This gives a total possible 60 points per voting round. Final round will be all categories.

Simple and effective.

Bonus systems could be used but I would keep them to "early finish", "first done", "documentation", ext. Nothing specific to the build.

This prevents all the uneccesary and unfair category system and lets the individual have their own category system.

Posted by: brettrarnold Sep 30 2015, 07:46 AM

QUOTE(Olympic 1.7 @ Sep 30 2015, 07:40 AM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 07:48 AM

QUOTE(Olympic 1.7 @ Sep 30 2015, 09:40 AM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 08:33 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 30 2015, 09:45 AM)

Posted by: mbseto Sep 30 2015, 09:40 AM

So the field is narrowed every quarter but are we still tracking whether the original starters finish their build on time? Would be cool to have a finishers prize, like an "I saved a 914!" T-shirt.

Losers can get a "I killed a 914!" shirt... >:-)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 10:12 AM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Sep 30 2015, 11:40 AM)

Posted by: budk Sep 30 2015, 10:45 AM

While the main challenge thread can and should be in the garage forum, I believe the individual threads for each participant should be in the Restoration and Build Threads forum.

You are asking each participant to document their builds and you are awarding points to some extent based on the level of documentation. If there are 30 participants, the garage forum is going to get cluttered with their updates. While it is important to those 30 members and the sponsors it may keep one of the other 17,000+ members from seeing an important (at least to them) thread. There isn't much recent activity in the R&BT forum and it seems like the right place for the challenge threads anyway.

Good luck to all of the participants.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 11:02 AM

QUOTE(budk @ Sep 30 2015, 12:45 PM)

While the main challenge thread can and should be in the garage forum, I believe the individual threads for each participant should be in the Restoration and Build Threads forum.

You are asking each participant to document their builds and you are awarding points to some extent based on the level of documentation. If there are 30 participants, the garage forum is going to get cluttered with their updates. While it is important to those 30 members and the sponsors it may keep one of the other 17,000+ members from seeing an important (at least to them) thread. There isn't much recent activity in the R&BT forum and it seems like the right place for the challenge threads anyway.

Good luck to all of the participants.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 30 2015, 11:07 AM

The build thread forum is only used to point people to threads already going on in the garage. Simply a quick collection of build threads.

If anyone wants to have their thread pointed to from there, Andy has indicated in the past that they just need to tell him in a PM.

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 11:15 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 30 2015, 01:07 PM)

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 11:18 AM

On a different note - there have been many, many great suggestions in this thread. They have really helped us flesh through the issues. If anyone who is not participating in the Challenge wants to help administer it, I would welcome the help. I am so pleased that we have 30 participants. It will be great to get these projects moving along and watch this play out.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 30 2015, 02:46 PM

Build thread domination probably won't be a problem. Most work will likely be on the weekend and we can encourage bundling of progress into a single post. (ex. part arrived Tues [pic]. Installed Sat [pic]. Update Sun night.)

We can also discourage posts by others that don't add to the thread. A lot of that can be done by PM.

I like reading build threads, so as long as it stays focused I'm not going to be perturbed.

T-shirts: Save the 914 >> Saved a 914 2016

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 02:49 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 30 2015, 04:46 PM)

Build thread domination probably won't be a problem. Most work will likely be on the weekend and we can encourage bundling of progress into a single post. (ex. part arrived Tues [pic]. Installed Sat [pic]. Update Sun night.)

We can also discourage posts by others that don't add to the thread. A lot of that can be done by PM.

I like reading build threads, so as long as it stays focused I'm not going to be perturbed.

T-shirts: Save the 914 >> Saved a 914 2016

Posted by: Chris914n6 Sep 30 2015, 03:05 PM

PM is on the way.

Forgot to add: Build thread titles. I think there should be a common identifier. Easier to keep track of obviously.

Saving a 914 in 2016 blahblahblahMueller

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Sep 30 2015, 06:15 PM

QUOTE(Chris914n6 @ Sep 30 2015, 05:05 PM)

PM is on the way.

Forgot to add: Build thread titles. I think there should be a common identifier. Easier to keep track of obviously.

Saving a 914 in 2016 blahblahblahMueller

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 30 2015, 06:24 PM

How about just 914 BOC: ****** ?

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 06:37 PM

We are going to go with - Build-Off Challenge - ___Challengers info____

So for example:

Build-Off Challenge – John's Yellow Hornet Build


Should we add the yea in there?

2016 Build-Off Challenge – John's Yellow Hornet Build

Posted by: RJMII Sep 30 2015, 06:57 PM

Steve, I emailed my info and pictures to you.

When do we get set up for discounts on parts? lol I could use some seals and door handle pieces... and other stuff... (did I see that right? participants get a discount?)

I'm in it for fun, and for motivation to finish the car. You can do the points however... I'll just keep posting and participating as I go.

Thank you for putting it together and letting me join!

Posted by: lonewolfe Sep 30 2015, 08:39 PM

I saw you have completed the Build-off Challenge participant list but I didn't find the list. Is that included in this thread or another?

Posted by: r_towle Sep 30 2015, 10:06 PM

It's in a special thread that he won't allow anyone to comment on....sorry steve, stupid and against the spirit of this community in my opinion. I figured you would have gotten the simple message last time I said something but try to think about how it looks....and who will be cheering on the builders, who harasses them??? See what is missing???
Community.

This community has been here for a long time buddy, events have been here for a longer time than the community.
None of this belongs to any one person to contro, except maybe SirAndy who would never do it.

Stop trying to control things and let people talk, chat and have a community, that is the whole damn point....

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 10:10 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Oct 1 2015, 12:06 AM)

Posted by: r_towle Sep 30 2015, 10:27 PM

There is no we, and this is not your magazine.
Let it flow naturally and stop trying to control it.

Heck, you even changed the name of this thread....

I predict your thread will move down to back pages due to you stating the no one else, aside from you, can bump the thread.....lol

Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2015, 10:38 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Oct 1 2015, 12:27 AM)

Posted by: stevegm Oct 5 2015, 04:15 PM

Save the 914 is donating Challenge T-shirt to give to all of the Challengers. PM me your size and we will add them to the order.

The refined logo is done (the firs tone was thrown together and we wanted to add the year). So I am going to use that on the shirts. I can't decide whether to use the one with - Build-Off - or not. Opinions?


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Andyrew Oct 5 2015, 04:19 PM

Not a fan of the build off fan font just being stuck there. If you made the "Challenge" ribbon taller and "Build Off" in the same font I think it might look better.

Posted by: stevegm Oct 5 2015, 04:31 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 5 2015, 06:19 PM)

Posted by: madmax914 Oct 5 2015, 04:52 PM

I actually like the shirt with the "Build Off" on it, it defines the type of Challenge if someone was to ask.

Posted by: Olympic 1.7 Oct 5 2015, 05:30 PM

Posted by: stevegm Oct 5 2015, 09:40 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 5 2015, 06:19 PM)

Posted by: Philip W. Oct 5 2015, 09:58 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Oct 5 2015, 11:40 PM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 5 2015, 06:19 PM)

Not a fan of the build off fan font just being stuck there. If you made the "Challenge" ribbon taller and "Build Off" in the same font I think it might look better.

Interesting suggestion.

Posted by: Andyrew Oct 6 2015, 06:19 AM

The font grew(more bold?) in the last one, make it the smaller like the first ones and I think its perfect

Posted by: mbseto Oct 6 2015, 07:37 AM

I'm a KISS proponent. You could also just do "Build-Off". Don't know about everyone else, but my T will spend all it's time catching grinder dust, welding spatter, rust flecks, grease, oil, and gasoline- by the time the build off ends, you're not going to recognize it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b76kjd5nvMg

Large, BTW, and thank you!

Posted by: budk Oct 6 2015, 07:56 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Oct 5 2015, 11:40 PM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 5 2015, 06:19 PM)

Not a fan of the build off fan font just being stuck there. If you made the "Challenge" ribbon taller and "Build Off" in the same font I think it might look better.

Interesting suggestion.

Posted by: stevegm Oct 6 2015, 09:26 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 6 2015, 08:19 AM)

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Oct 6 2015, 10:08 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Oct 5 2015, 08:40 PM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 5 2015, 06:19 PM)

Not a fan of the build off fan font just being stuck there. If you made the "Challenge" ribbon taller and "Build Off" in the same font I think it might look better.

Interesting suggestion.

Posted by: madmax914 Oct 6 2015, 10:45 AM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Oct 5 2015, 08:40 PM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 5 2015, 06:19 PM)

Not a fan of the build off fan font just being stuck there. If you made the "Challenge" ribbon taller and "Build Off" in the same font I think it might look better.

Interesting suggestion.

Posted by: AndyB Oct 6 2015, 10:56 AM

Steve it's your competition so ultimatley the final say is yours. I don't have a preference. This reminds me of the Hershey Shirt with all the opinions. Mine will be stained have holes and grease. But I will still wear it.

Andy

Posted by: stevegm Oct 6 2015, 11:48 AM

QUOTE(AndyB @ Oct 6 2015, 12:56 PM)

Posted by: AndyB Oct 6 2015, 12:00 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 30 2015, 09:45 AM)

Posted by: Andyrew Oct 6 2015, 12:33 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Oct 5 2015, 08:40 PM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 5 2015, 06:19 PM)

Not a fan of the build off fan font just being stuck there. If you made the "Challenge" ribbon taller and "Build Off" in the same font I think it might look better.

Interesting suggestion.

Posted by: stevegm Oct 6 2015, 12:36 PM

QUOTE(AndyB @ Oct 6 2015, 02:00 PM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 30 2015, 09:45 AM)

I think your being far to specific with the categories.

I believe that for the points system you need to do the following:

Each participant gave 5 aspects of their build, lets judge each one individually based on those aspects and a 1-10 rank based on progress, difficulty, and workmanship. For each voting period only the top two categories will be added up for each individual (judges will vote on all 5) to encurage a streemlined focus from the builder and continuity for your articles. This gives a total possible 60 points per voting round. Final round will be all categories.

Simple and effective.

Bonus systems could be used but I would keep them to "early finish", "first done", "documentation", ext. Nothing specific to the build.

This prevents all the uneccesary and unfair category system and lets the individual have their own category system.

I actually agree. All work that was done prior should be null and void, this way there is an even playing field. Start all judging effective 1 October. Then we don't have to hear about how well I am fabbing this or I have done a lot in the past two years. All that gets wiped. And maybe George will finally send me that T-shirt that he still owes me for the past 3 years.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Oct 6 2015, 04:23 PM

QUOTE(stevegm @ Oct 5 2015, 08:40 PM)

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 5 2015, 06:19 PM)

Not a fan of the build off fan font just being stuck there. If you made the "Challenge" ribbon taller and "Build Off" in the same font I think it might look better.

Interesting suggestion.

Posted by: dudzy's914 Oct 7 2015, 04:39 AM

I think it should have "build off" in the ribbon instead of challenge, that would make a nice shirt. Nice job Steve!