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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ GT cooler install
Posted by: rtalich Oct 17 2015, 10:48 AM
I know there isn't a right or wrong way to install (or maybe there is). Just would like to know or get idea's from people that have done this particular install. Is there a prefabbed bracket I can buy? Or do I simply bolt this as close to the front as I possibly can? Using isolation mounts of course.
Also, how is the bottom shroud mounted?
I have a few ideas of how I want to mount... just would like to see what others have done. Thanks!
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Steve Oct 17 2015, 11:07 AM
I used the pbase site as a guide when I did mine.
http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/9146gt_front_mounted_oil_coolerI'm
http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/the9146gt_front_oil_cooler_install_modifications
Posted by: 23e Heure Oct 18 2015, 02:26 PM
I'm bookmarking this thread...
Has anyone fitted the louvred belly pan section that PMS sell as part of the kit?
Pictures please?
Posted by: mepstein Oct 18 2015, 03:14 PM
I'm bookmarking this thread...
Has anyone fitted the louvred belly pan section that PMS sell as part of the kit?
Pictures please?
Pms website has lots of pics.
Posted by: 23e Heure Oct 18 2015, 03:41 PM
I had a scroll through the PMS pics, and sorry if I am being a muppet and missing some obvious ones, I just can't see a nice detail shot of the louvred belly pan itself.
Would be nice to get a nice clean shot of a front trunk with the pan installed, and before a cooler and shroud (obv.!) has been fitted.
The third one is the best angle... shame its such a small jpg (and a questionable install?)
These are the best I could turn up thru the PMS links:
Posted by: mepstein Oct 18 2015, 04:10 PM
I wanted max air flow so I asked scotty to make me up a custom set of louvers. The aluminum shroud was his idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: rtalich Oct 18 2015, 07:21 PM
Thanks for the info and pics so far!! All pics I've seen on PMS website are not all that detailed enough to see what was done exactly.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 19 2015, 06:48 AM
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: naro914 Oct 19 2015, 08:27 AM
We went a different route with Huey because we drive him for trips and want to use the front trunk area. We got a flatter style cooler and mounted it on the floor, that way the air is not heated up until it passes through the cooler and out, and the shroud does not get hot thus heating up everything in the front trunk (like the beer cooler that fits nicely up there!!). It also allows for a much flatter shroud meaning you have more open depth to use, but it takes up more of the floor space...so a trade off...
Unfortunately I don't have a picture of it (for some reason??) and its currently at the shop to get the rear suspension fixed. If I can sneak over there and get a few pics, I will
For Papa Smurf, we fabricated a bracket system to vent it out the hood...
Posted by: stownsen914 Oct 19 2015, 09:16 AM
Whatever you do, make sure the actual surface area of the air exit from your trunck is at least the same as the surface area of your cooler. So if the dimensions of your cooler that face the air source are 24 x 6, for example, then the exit must be at least 144 sq. inches. 1.5 times the cooler size is even better. The louvered panels shown in the thread look like a nice, clean option, but I'll bet the actual louver openings are nowhere near the size needed to exit air for a large cooler.
Apologies if I am stating the obvious, but if the exit from your cooler is restrictive, the air will stack up in your duct and basically won't even enter your duct opening (hence limited cooling), and will defeat much of the purpose of a front mounted cooler setup.
Scott
Posted by: naro914 Oct 19 2015, 09:33 AM
Scott's right. Obviously, air expands when heated so the volume of air increases and needs to exit....Which is another reason the mounted to the floor option worked well...the exit is effectively unlimited area..
Posted by: anderssj Oct 19 2015, 10:21 AM
Really nice work on the louvers and Al shroud.
Understand that the incoming air will want to expand when heated/as it passes through the cooler. Theoretically 
if one is going fast enough* (and shapes the inlet and exit ducts correctly) then the smaller exit could provide some additional thrust via the "Meredith Effect." The next question would be where to put that exit . . . . 
*fast enough ~ > 200 mph
Posted by: RobW Oct 19 2015, 11:36 AM
What's the total damage for cooler, shroud, oil lines and thermostat?
Posted by: 23e Heure Oct 19 2015, 12:23 PM
What's the total damage for cooler, shroud, oil lines and thermostat?
PMS price = $1870 plus shipping, including the louvred belly pan section
Posted by: 23e Heure Oct 19 2015, 12:47 PM
That custom made one in mepstein's post above does fit well, some nice fabricating went into that.
And I guess the extra louvres help allay any concerns about the (hot) air pressure physics.
...
Still wondering though if we can find any clean photos of the standard PMS louvred belly pan installed..?
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 19 2015, 12:53 PM
Apologies if I am stating the obvious, but if the exit from your cooler is restrictive, the air will stack up in your duct and basically won't even enter your duct opening (hence limited cooling), and will defeat much of the purpose of a front mounted cooler setup.
That would be true in a static environment.
However, if you increase air speed after the cooler you can expel that same air just as efficiently with a smaller size outlet.
Which is exactly what the louvers do ...
Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 19 2015, 01:10 PM
Now you guys have me worried. I have the exact same set-up as Mark with louvers in the trunk floor, like PMS has on their car above. I am going to go out a limb here and say if PMS selected this method to expel hot air from their car, it will be good enough for my street driver. However, you got me thinking for a minute there....
Posted by: mepstein Oct 19 2015, 01:27 PM
Now you guys have me worried. I have the exact same set-up as Mark with louvers in the trunk floor, like PMS has on their car above. I am going to go out a limb here and say if PMS selected this method to expel hot air from their car, it will be good enough for my street driver. However, you got me thinking for a minute there....
Michael - you have nothing to worry about. Remember, the front cooler is a supplement to your on engine cooler. Your covered.
I removed my on engine cooler so I'm relying solely on the front cooler. If it gets to warm I will add back the engine cooler.
Posted by: mepstein Oct 19 2015, 01:29 PM
Apologies if I am stating the obvious, but if the exit from your cooler is restrictive, the air will stack up in your duct and basically won't even enter your duct opening (hence limited cooling), and will defeat much of the purpose of a front mounted cooler setup.
That would be true in a static environment.
However, if you increase air speed after the cooler you can expel that same air just as efficiently with a smaller size outlet.
Which is exactly what the louvers do ...
I'm going to use an electric fan over the louvers. Hopefully that will give me adequate airflow when the car is stationary
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 19 2015, 01:36 PM
Apologies if I am stating the obvious, but if the exit from your cooler is restrictive, the air will stack up in your duct and basically won't even enter your duct opening (hence limited cooling), and will defeat much of the purpose of a front mounted cooler setup.
However, if you increase air speed after the cooler you can expel that same air just as efficiently with a smaller size outlet.
Which is exactly what the louvers do ...
That wasn't my point, but yes, a fan will help when not moving.
My point was that the design of the louvers will increase the air speed of the hot air while the car is moving, thus offsetting some of the surface area required for the exit holes.
Posted by: stownsen914 Oct 19 2015, 01:41 PM
That would be true in a static environment.
However, if you increase air speed after the cooler you can expel that same air just as efficiently with a smaller size outlet.
Which is exactly what the louvers do ...
It is true that louvers create a pressure differential where one would not otherwise exist, e.g. at the top of a prototype fender. My statement earlier about exit sizing assumes good air flow into a low pressure area. I'm curious to know how louvers totalling what look like maybe 1 sq. inch each can match flow of a large (100-200 sq. inch) opening into a low pressure area with a lip at the leading edge ...
Granted we are talking about a supplemental oil cooler here (and possibly a street application), so ideal exit flow may not be needed. In such a case louvers may be good enough.
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 19 2015, 01:49 PM
My 3.6L has no engine cooler, all i have is the front mounted cooler and the air exits through a shroud and out the *top* trough several "louvers" in the hood.
The total surface area for the louvered openings is about the same as the area of the inlet.
While moving, the cooler is actually too efficient and unless i'm running a full race session on the track my car has trouble getting up to operating temps.
That's on a 80+ California day ...
The only time i see the temps approaching 220 is after a long drive on a hot day (90+) when i get stuck in traffic and have no air flow over the cooler (no fans).
In normal operating mode, my oil temps hover right around 180 ...
Posted by: rtalich Oct 20 2015, 07:31 AM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
Posted by: naro914 Oct 20 2015, 07:41 AM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
I do...the exact one on Papa Smurf...but it's vented up through the hood.
Posted by: rtalich Oct 20 2015, 09:51 AM
Thanks! I will post pics of my install when I do it.
Posted by: stownsen914 Oct 20 2015, 10:08 AM
I do...the exact one on Papa Smurf...but it's vented up through the hood.
Nice install. Note that the way yours is done with the dual verical lips, it basically has really big louvers venting out the hood!
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Oct 20 2015, 10:09 AM
Slickest setup I've seen on a street car was done on a GT silver 3.6-liter six conversion (East Coast?) with 996 C4 17-inch wheels. It had a custom resin-looking fiberglass shroud in the front trunk that directed the cooler's exhaust air to the front fender wells. Looked very "factory" in a 908 sort of way, and avoided any lift problems created by directing the air downward. It also made room for a space-saver spare. Car was for sale a while back, iirc.
Best setup I've seen on a 911 put two small coolers in the corners and vented them to the sides of the bumper. Done by one of Penske's main engineers/crew chiefs. Was too effective, apparently, as the engine stayed too cold—like Andy's. A nice problem to have if you are going to have one.
pete
Posted by: JmuRiz Oct 20 2015, 10:21 AM
Slickest setup I've seen on a street car was done on a GT silver 3.6-liter six conversion (East Coast?) with 996 C4 17-inch wheels. It had a custom resin-looking fiberglass shroud in the front trunk that directed the cooler's exhaust air to the front fender wells. Looked very "factory" in a 908 sort of way, and avoided any lift problems created by directing the air downward. It also made room for a space-saver spare. Car was for sale a while back, iirc.
Best setup I've seen on a 911 put two small coolers in the corners and vented them to the sides of the bumper. Done by one of Penske's main engineers/crew chiefs. Was too effective, apparently, as the engine stayed too cold—like Andy's. A nice problem to have if you are going to have one.
pete
This one:
Posted by: scotty b Oct 20 2015, 10:40 AM
Now you guys have me worried. I have the exact same set-up as Mark with louvers in the trunk floor, like PMS has on their car above. I am going to go out a limb here and say if PMS selected this method to expel hot air from their car, it will be good enough for my street driver. However, you got me thinking for a minute there....
Michael - you have nothing to worry about. Remember, the front cooler is a supplement to your on engine cooler. Your covered.
I removed my on engine cooler so I'm relying solely on the front cooler. If it gets to warm I will add back the engine cooler.
your engine is a fairly mild 3.2 that isn't seeing track beatings. The front cooler is supplemental. Stock 911's ran the trombone setup with a similar sized cooler in the fender well that got a lot less air flow than your, and Marks cars will be getting. NO need to worry 
Posted by: echocanyons Oct 20 2015, 10:45 AM
I asked Mark to engineer and install this one for my car based on Eastcoasters design.
Posted by: mepstein Oct 20 2015, 12:04 PM
I asked Mark to engineer and install this one for my car based on Eastcoasters design.
Winner winner chicken dinner. I like that!
Posted by: JmuRiz Oct 20 2015, 01:20 PM
Wow, that is VERY cool...spare tire, oil cooling and the stock cover still fits!!!
Sell a kit and I think there would be buyers
Posted by: naro914 Oct 21 2015, 10:22 AM
I asked Mark to engineer and install this one for my car based on Eastcoasters design.
that is awesome! AND you can get a little cooling to the brakes if it was a track application...
I realized I have no pictures of Huey's front trunk area with the flat cooler, but I found a couple when it was in Papa Smurf from the bottom...not great pictures since I was taking pictures of the suspension control arms, but you get the idea...this was before I scraped off all the undercoating...
Wow...look how empty the front trunk was back then!!
Posted by: naro914 Oct 21 2015, 10:26 AM
Here's the inlet/outlet side of the cooler now in Papa Smurf:
Posted by: maf914 Oct 23 2015, 06:32 AM
I asked Mark to engineer and install this one for my car based on Eastcoasters design.
I agree, very nice installation by Mark. Is the ductwork fiberglass?
I always thought East Coaster's installation was first rate. Good work everyone.
Posted by: 396 Oct 23 2015, 08:51 AM
I asked Mark to engineer and install this one for my car based on Eastcoasters design.
that is awesome! AND you can get a little cooling to the brakes if it was a track application...
I realized I have no pictures of Huey's front trunk area with the flat cooler, but I found a couple when it was in Papa Smurf from the bottom...not great pictures since I was taking pictures of the suspension control arms, but you get the idea...this was before I scraped off all the undercoating...
Wow...look how empty the front trunk was back then!!
Very cool pictures of the cooler and what looks like ERP suspension components.
Posted by: rtalich Oct 23 2015, 07:21 PM
I'd like to install these rubber isolators in this exact spot and as you can see the bottom is not flat. Any ideas of what I can do here? The top brackets are easy... I'll simple use an L bracket.
Thanks,
Rob
PS - Just using the L piece shown as support so I can a good picture... 
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 23 2015, 08:10 PM
Contour the rubber grommet?
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 23 2015, 08:49 PM
Add a metal spacer of sorts to the chassis that allows the rubber to be mounted exactly where you're holding it?
Or would that move everything up too high?
Just FYI, when i installed my front cooler, i added a U-channel to the bottom (and top) so that the cooler "floats" in it.
The U-channel is padded to absorb vibrations.
No rubber mounts were harmed during the install ...
Posted by: ConeDodger Oct 24 2015, 10:15 AM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
I think mine is the same one...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: rtalich Oct 24 2015, 01:29 PM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
I think mine is the same one...
Thanks Rob!! Yes that is the same. Any way you could get a close up pic of the cooler mounts?
Posted by: ConeDodger Oct 25 2015, 04:50 AM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
I think mine is the same one...
Thanks Rob!! Yes that is the same. Any way you could get a close up pic of the cooler mounts?
Sorry. Not without uninstalling it. Call Mark. He does this the same way with each install for the GT type period correct look installs...
Posted by: rtalich Oct 25 2015, 09:52 AM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
I think mine is the same one...
Thanks Rob!! Yes that is the same. Any way you could get a close up pic of the cooler mounts?
Sorry. Not without uninstalling it. Call Mark. He does this the same way with each install for the GT type period correct look installs...
Thanks Rob!
Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 25 2015, 12:27 PM
I'm confused. Very.
Posted by: mepstein Oct 25 2015, 12:39 PM
I'm confused. Very.
Boys have a penis
Girls have a vagina
Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 25 2015, 08:09 PM
What???? 
Posted by: rtalich Oct 26 2015, 04:58 PM
I'd like to install these rubber isolators in this exact spot and as you can see the bottom is not flat. Any ideas of what I can do here? The top brackets are easy... I'll simple use an L bracket.
Thanks,
Rob
PS - Just using the L piece shown as support so I can a good picture...
This is what I've done so far...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: bigkensteele Oct 26 2015, 06:53 PM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
I think mine is the same one...
Why is the shroud covered by a shroud? Not sure that I understand this setup.
Posted by: mepstein Oct 26 2015, 08:41 PM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
I think mine is the same one...
Why is the shroud covered by a shroud? Not sure that I understand this setup.
The smaller shroud smooths the airflow over the metal hump on the body and sends it through the cooler. Not absolutely needed but a nice finishing touch.
Posted by: rtalich Nov 9 2015, 11:01 AM
Don't have a lot of time to work on my car... but finally made a bit of progress.
-Rob
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Dave_Darling Nov 9 2015, 03:25 PM
Why is the shroud covered by a shroud? Not sure that I understand this setup.
There's one under the cooler, and one over the cooler. Evidently the designer didn't want the cooler just sitting on the trunk floor, so they raised it up slightly and provided a smoothly curved "floor" for the ducting. The cooler sits on top of that inner shroud, then the outer one goes over that.
--DD
Posted by: rtalich Nov 17 2015, 10:40 AM
More progress...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 17 2015, 10:49 AM
Those don't look like -12
Posted by: rtalich Nov 17 2015, 11:40 AM
Those don't look like -12
They are -12AN lines and fittings. The other lines in some of those pics are fuel, which are -6AN lines.
Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 17 2015, 11:47 AM
Those don't look like -12
They are -12AN lines and fittings.
Nevermind.
Posted by: rtalich Dec 8 2015, 08:03 PM
Slowly but surely making progress. I got everything installed and removed spark plugs to do the prime and crank pressure build. Silly me.... I was thinking that the new lines and cooler would probably hold a couple more quarts of oil than before. After adding 7 quarts total!! I finally, after about 3 sessions of cranking for about 20-30 seconds per session, got pressure!! Just about 25 psi worth! And I still need to add another quart to top it off. Can't wait to get this baby back on the road!!
Posted by: Steve Dec 8 2015, 11:19 PM
I find it really hard to believe that nobody else on this website has this particular cooler installed!!
I think mine is the same one...
Why is the shroud covered by a shroud? Not sure that I understand this setup.
The smaller shroud smooths the airflow over the metal hump on the body and sends it through the cooler. Not absolutely needed but a nice finishing touch.
That's how the factory did it. Getty design is just a fiberglass replica.
http://www.pbase.com/9146gt/oil_cooler_cover_support_nos
Posted by: rtalich Jun 30 2016, 09:25 AM
Well... Finally got the car running again. Took it for a short spin around the block. Overall, ran great!
Posted by: 23e Heure Jul 8 2016, 04:42 AM
Somebody posted shots on a similar thread of the really neat job they did installing a front oil cooler while retaining the chrome bumper.
I have done a forum search and can't seem to find that post... Could anybody help me with that?
The car in question is light ivory, if that is of any help.
Cheers!
Posted by: ConeDodger Jul 8 2016, 08:39 AM
Mine isn't light ivory, but I did the same cooler and a steel bumper. The cooler itself is a Setrab replica of the one used in the 70's on the GT cars. The shroud is a Getty design product. My bumper can be replicated by Original Customs in Grand Rapids Michigan. They did all of the install and fabrication on mine. The bill for the bumper is not for the faint of heart and frankly, I think McMark gave me a good deal on it since the person he was building it for got lightheaded over the price, but expect +- $2000 for this bumper. Oh, and that's after you supply the bumper! The chrome is so good, I'm sending in my already rechromed rear bumper for a redo at the place McMark uses...
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Posted by: rgalla9146 Jul 8 2016, 11:38 AM
Even as we speak.
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Posted by: echocanyons Jul 8 2016, 08:38 PM
Very cool!
Looking forward to the completed version.
What cooler did you end up going with? Any accessory fans?
Posted by: rgalla9146 Jul 9 2016, 05:59 AM
Very cool!
Looking forward to the completed version.
What cooler did you end up going with? Any accessory fans?
No fans.
Replica OE GT cooler.
Will use a 911 thermo back in the drivers side lower engine compartment.
Brass tubes and all OE metric fittings
Posted by: Harpo Jul 10 2016, 01:55 PM
Even as we speak.
I was asking McMark about that last month.
Posted by: JmuRiz Jul 10 2016, 06:38 PM
VERY cool shroud!
Posted by: 23e Heure Jul 20 2016, 03:36 PM
Mine isn't light ivory, but I did the same cooler and a steel bumper. The cooler itself is a Setrab replica of the one used in the 70's on the GT cars. The shroud is a Getty design product. My bumper can be replicated by Original Customs in Grand Rapids Michigan. They did all of the install and fabrication on mine. The bill for the bumper is not for the faint of heart and frankly, I think McMark gave me a good deal on it since the person he was building it for got lightheaded over the price, but expect +- $2000 for this bumper. Oh, and that's after you supply the bumper! The chrome is so good, I'm sending in my already rechromed rear bumper for a redo at the place McMark uses...
Only just spotted that you had responded to my post: thanks! Car looks great.
Price sounds heavy, but when you think about the fabrication work required it probably makes sense.
I'm in UK and hourly rate is probably higher than where you are, so I may have to rethink plans or shop around.
Still wondering who it was that did this with their light ivory car...
Posted by: Mueller Jul 20 2016, 03:45 PM
Even as we speak.
Neat, is it going to have a bottom to it or will you just use the trunk floor?
Posted by: rgalla9146 Jul 20 2016, 04:47 PM
Even as we speak.
Neat, is it going to have a bottom to it or will you just use the trunk floor?
fiberglass duct above floor to fenderwells
pictures don't illustrate too well...shadows,colors etc.etc
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: rgalla9146 Jul 20 2016, 04:49 PM
Even as we speak.
Neat, is it going to have a bottom to it or will you just use the trunk floor?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: maf914 Jul 21 2016, 09:02 AM
Very nice fiberglass work. How was the duct molded? With a foam male plug? I would like to learn how to do small fiberglass projects like that.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Jul 21 2016, 09:53 AM
Very nice fiberglass work. How was the duct molded? With a foam male plug? I would like to learn how to do small fiberglass projects like that.
Yes, done over a styrofoam form wrapped in clear packing tape.
After the fiberglass is hard the styrofoam is broken up and removed from the inside.
There is an earlier picture in this thread with the foam still inside.
Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 21 2016, 03:59 PM
That looks like an excellent solution and keeps one from having to open up the trunk floor. 
Posted by: barefoot Jul 21 2016, 04:14 PM
Even as we speak.
Neat, is it going to have a bottom to it or will you just use the trunk floor?
Now if you'd done it in carbon, then really cool !!
Bare boat interior prior to interior build:
Posted by: Mitox Jul 21 2016, 06:05 PM
Even as we speak.
Neat, is it going to have a bottom to it or will you just use the trunk floor?
fiberglass duct above floor to fenderwells
pictures don't illustrate too well...shadows,colors etc.etc
This looks great; love the workmanship. I may go this direction on my project, but use some scrap carbon fiber material.
Posted by: 98101 Nov 22 2017, 08:38 PM
I've got the Patrick Motorsport / Setrab auxiliary front cooler on my big 4, and finding it takes a long time to reach operating temperature, at least when it's cool outside. I've been told the oil thermostat that came with the kit will only block 90% of the flow. So I'm thinking about stuffing a bunch of shop towels in the front opening! Or is there a better solution?
Posted by: mepstein Nov 22 2017, 08:58 PM
I've got the Patrick Motorsport / Setrab auxiliary front cooler on my big 4, and finding it takes a long time to reach operating temperature, at least when it's cool outside. I've been told the oil thermostat that came with the kit will only block 90% of the flow. So I'm thinking about stuffing a bunch of shop towels in the front opening! Or is there a better solution?
Maybe some magnetic sheet material like you use for signs on cars. Cut to size and stick on as needed.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Nov 22 2017, 09:13 PM
Magnets, coroplast (corrugated plastic sign material), duct tape, maybe something like venetian blinds...
--DD
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