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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Spark Plug Anti-Seize

Posted by: bd1308 Mar 8 2005, 12:16 PM

I read on another thread about NOT using steel anti-sieze as it corrodes the aluminum.....i put some of the FLAPS stuff on, seems to work fine...but havent removed the plugs since. should i be afraid to change these plugs?

Posted by: Mueller Mar 8 2005, 12:19 PM

if you have not removed them, how do you know it's working fine???

have you read the label for the anti-seize??

Posted by: bd1308 Mar 8 2005, 12:28 PM

QUOTE (Mueller @ Mar 8 2005, 12:19 PM)
if you have not removed them, how do you know it's working fine???

have you read the label for the anti-seize??

very true...very true. I'll just worry about that later...when i rip the threads out of my car. actually the information was vague on the packet of anti-seize. whatever

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 8 2005, 01:53 PM

"steel antisieze" ?

Porsche has consistently recommended no anti-sieze on the plugs; i think they had a bad experience with insulating antisieze back when ignition systems were wimpier and plugs more easily fouled (due to lead...)

i've always used antisieze on plugs and never had a problem. but to address all the various concerns, the antisieze i use on plugs ( i have half a dozen kinds... ) is LubroMoly LM58 Copper-Based Anti-sieze. it's rated for high temperatures and the copper eliminates (in my mind) any issue with insulation.

i put a tiny dab - half-a-pea, maybe, on the plug, and wipe it around with my finger; that takes most of it right back off, except for a very thin film.

Posted by: bd1308 Mar 8 2005, 01:54 PM

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 8 2005, 01:53 PM)
"steel antisieze" ?

Porsche has consistently recommended no anti-sieze on the plugs; i think they had a bad experience with insulating antisieze back when ignition systems were wimpier and plugs more easily fouled (due to lead...)

i've always used antisieze on plugs and never had a problem. but to address all the various concerns, the antisieze i use on plugs ( i have half a dozen kinds... ) is LubroMoly LM58 Copper-Based Anti-sieze. it's rated for high temperatures and the copper eliminates (in my mind) any issue with insulation.

i put a tiny dab - half-a-pea, maybe, on the plug, and wipe it around with my finger; that takes most of it right back off, except for a very thin film.

i dunno....i'm just scared i'm gonna destroy my 2.0 heads! i guess i shouldnt worry, until i get to replacing my plugs.

Posted by: bd1308 Mar 8 2005, 02:08 PM

milk of magnesia......better than anti-sieze??? explain please

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 8 2005, 02:15 PM

all anti-sieze compounds are some kind of chemical...

Milk of Magnesia is basically magnesium hydroxide. i don't know exactly why it works, but it's an alkaline suspension that does not degrade at high temperature. and it's presumptively not such a good insulator that it keeps plugs from grounding properly.

T-IV heads typically run the plug directly in the aluminum. 911 heads (the years i am familiar with, any...) have Helicoil inserts installed from the factory.

Posted by: bd1308 Mar 8 2005, 02:21 PM

thats what i should do....seems like it would stand up better to some wear N tear....

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Mar 8 2005, 02:25 PM

QUOTE
magnesium hydroxide...alkaline suspension

Any chance these chemicals would also attack (corrode) the aluminum heads?

Posted by: bd1308 Mar 8 2005, 02:30 PM

QUOTE (bowlsby @ Mar 8 2005, 02:25 PM)

QUOTE
magnesium hydroxide...alkaline suspension

Any chance these chemicals would also attack (corrode) the aluminum heads?

i'd like to know as well

Posted by: SLITS Mar 8 2005, 02:43 PM

THE MINERAL BRUCITE
Chemical Formula: Mg(OH)2, Magnesium Hydroxide
Class: Oxides and Hydroxides
Group: Brucite
Uses: A minor source of metallic magnesium, a source of magnesia and as a refractory additive.
Specimens
Brucite is a mineral that is not often used as a mineral specimen but does have some important industrial uses. It is a minor ore of magnesium metal and a source of magnesia. It is also used as an additive in certain refractories.
It is brucite's structure that is interesting. The basic structure forms stacked sheets of octahedrons of magnesium hydroxide. The octahedrons are composed of magnesium ions with a +2 charge bonded to six octahedrally coordinated hydroxides with a -1 charge. Each hydroxide is bonded to three magnesiums. The result is a neutral sheet since +2/6 = +1/3 (+2 charge on the magnesiums divided among six hydroxide bonds) and -1/3 = -1/3 (-1 charge on the hydroxides divided among three magnesiums); thus the charges cancel.

The lack of a charge on the brucite sheets means that there is no charge to retain ions between the sheets and act as a "glue" to keep the sheets together. The sheets are only held together by weak residual bonds and this results in a very soft easily cleaved mineral. Brucite is closely related to gibbsite, Al(OH)3. However the extra charge in gibbsite's aluminum (+3) as opposed to brucite's magnesium (+2) requires that one third of the octahedrons to be vacant of a central ion in order to maintain a neutral sheet.

Brucite is interesting for another reason because it is often found as a part of the structure of other minerals. How can this be? Well, the neutral magnesium hydroxide sheets are found sandwiched between silicate sheets in two important clay groups: the Chlorite and Montmorillonite/smectite groups. The individual magnesium hydroxide layers are identical to the individual layers of brucite and are referred to as the "brucite layers".

PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS:
Color is white or colorless with shades of gray, blue and green.
Luster is vitreous or waxy; cleavage surfaces have a pearly luster.
Transparency Crystals are translucent and rarely transparent.
Crystal System is trigonal; bar 3 2/m
Crystal Habit is typically in flattened tabular crystals with rare rhombohedral terminations. Also found in lamellar and fibrous aggregates and as foliated masses. Brucite has been known to pseudomorph crystals of periclase.
Cleavage is perfect in one direction, basal.
Fracture is uneven.
Hardness is 2 - 2.5
Specific Gravity is 2.4 (slightly below average)
Streak is white.
Other Characteristics: cleavage flakes and fibers are flexible but not elastic.
Associated Minerals are calcite, wollastonite, nepheline, talc, aragonite, serpentine, chromite, dolomite, magnesite, periclase and other magnesium minerals.
Notable Occurrences include Unst, Shetland Islands, England; Aesbestos, Wakefield and Black Lake, Quebec, Canada; Aosta, Italy; Brewster, New York, Wood's Mine, Texas, Gabbs, Nevada, Crestmore, California and Berks Co., Pennsylvania, USA.
Best Field Indicators are crystal habit, luster (especially on cleavage surfaces), lack of soapy or greasy feel and flexible but inelastic flakes and fibers.

Since, by heat, the solution would be dry...no electolytic solution to enable the transfer of electron...commonly called corrosion..

Posted by: Joe Ricard Mar 8 2005, 03:27 PM

Holy crap we found a subject that Slits knows lots about! or at least it seems because I'm baffeled by all the babble.