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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Which conversion is harder to accomplish/in a 914
Posted by: flmont Oct 29 2015, 08:30 PM
Iam wondering which one of the 2 engine conversions are easier to do,.wouldn't the oil cooled conversion be the easy and quickest way to go,..??? I realize engine cost is a BIG factor, but seems oil cooled would be easier FM
Posted by: mepstein Oct 29 2015, 08:36 PM
A Porsche engine was an oem option, 914-6, and with a different motor mount, (pretty much) bolts right in.
Posted by: GeorgeRud Oct 29 2015, 08:41 PM
The Porsche engine may be more money initially, but you'll be glad you chose it once you're done. It's a great project!
Posted by: Larmo63 Oct 29 2015, 08:43 PM
I can't say much more, but I'll stay with German stuff.
Posted by: r_towle Oct 29 2015, 09:48 PM
Easier is aircooled
Posted by: 76-914 Oct 30 2015, 08:45 AM
Haven't done a P6 conversion but I can't see how it wouldn't be easier than a Subaru engine conversion.
Posted by: Dtjaden Oct 30 2015, 09:14 AM
I'm getting started on Porsche 2.7L conversion. I'll detail the process (although this has already been done) as much to keep me on track as to help others. What I do know is involved are the following:
914/6 oil tank and fittings
Early (65-69) 6 bolt flywheel
914/6 motor mount
Front oil cooler and associated lines and fittings
914/6 exhaust headers (or very expensive heat exchangers)
You will also need to make a decision on the fuel system. I am going to initially use the stock 1974 CIS injection system that came with the engine I bought. I may later switch to Megasquirt injection since I currently have that on my 2056 4.
I believe I can keep the cost below $3,000 plus the cost of the engine so a total of about $8,000. I know that a Subi could be done for much less but I like the purity of keeping a Porsche engine.
Posted by: 914forme Oct 30 2015, 09:24 AM
Depends on your skills, and what you want. since you said harder, I will go this way,but it all is a perception questions.
Porsche -6 it is all nuts and bolts with a little bit of cutting for the oil tank. Get the pieces, could be done in a weekend. That makes it pretty easy.
Now for the proper question, so we could give you a better answer.
I want to know what the best engine is for my street driven in the city car, that I take out for a long drive once a month down the coasthighway etc.... So which engine would be the best choice for my car?
To me your usage case and what you want the car to be in the end would determine the final out come.
Shifting gears as smooth as butter, with a modern car feel, Subaru all the way. If we could get Ian to build kits again, or even use Renegade Kit, it is a bolt in affair also, with minor cutting for cooling. Renegade Kit uses the factory transaxle, so no smooth as butter shifting.
Posted by: GeorgeRud Oct 30 2015, 09:26 AM
If you live in an area where you do need heat, spend the money on the heat exchangers now that they are once again available. They work great (and hopefully fit correctly now), and keeps the car functional as defrost is also a nice feature to have working.
If you're using a 2.7, you'll need to change the flywheel to work with the 914's transmission as well. Enjoy the project in good health!
Posted by: KELTY360 Oct 30 2015, 09:29 AM
A turbo on a 3.3 Subie is a whole 'nother level of complexity. The 3.3 came NA from the factory.
Posted by: 914forme Oct 30 2015, 02:17 PM
A turbo on a 3.3 Subie is a whole 'nother level of complexity. The 3.3 came NA from the factory.
Not as bad as you think really.
It is just a stretched 2.2Ls so all them piston, rods, etc work. Custom headers and down pipes and your done.
Highly oversimplified
Posted by: flmont Oct 30 2015, 05:15 PM
What trips me up is the wiring on the 3.3,..and the fact I cant fab anything like a radiator shroud,or weld tranny brackets,..Etc,..So yes,...914forme,..I did mean as far as skill goes,..and tools aswell,..yea, a sheet metal can brake some tin for me,..its the electrical wiring,..I need help with, But ,..also the stinger ECU is 1800.00,..maybe small car would be less $$,.but a early 2.7 install would be nice also,..no ECU,no rad,just oil tank and flywheel,..I wonder how close the money is either way,.both engines are close in HP ,..but rebuild cost,..on a 2.7....well we know that story,.. FM
Posted by: 76-914 Oct 30 2015, 06:03 PM
Or keep your eyes open and buy one already done.
Posted by: patssle Oct 30 2015, 06:03 PM
I have a photo album that documents my 3.0L flat six conversion - pretty much what you see is what needs to be done!
http://imgur.com/a/k0Wtl
Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 30 2015, 06:16 PM
I think a GT bodied 914 with a twin turbo Subaru boxer motor would be a hell of a car. If I had a deep deep pocket, that would be a fun car to have. I imagine a PMS build......
Posted by: flmont Oct 30 2015, 06:24 PM
Hey,..Thanks Patssle,..That is great info,..would love to hear rhat engine,..??? LOL Frank
Posted by: flmont Oct 30 2015, 06:26 PM
Oh absoultly Cairo,.. I couldn't even add up how much that would cost,...but, I would love to drive it !!!
Posted by: flmont Oct 30 2015, 06:36 PM
Yea,..76-914,...I do truly like to build my own if at all possible,..thats how u learn your cars,...I did a top end on a 3.o ltr engine,..painted the car,..installed engine,.. drove car 3 yrs loved it,..I will do the same with the 914,.. the difference being no major mods,...I can remove and replace,..things no problem,...LOL
Posted by: phillstek Oct 30 2015, 08:10 PM
I have a photo album that documents my 3.0L flat six conversion - pretty much what you see is what needs to be done!
http://imgur.com/a/k0Wtl
Apologies for the hijack but...I took a look at your conversion blog and was wondering about your comment re: stainless braided oil line “I won’t use these again"
Why’s that?
Thanks
Posted by: KELTY360 Oct 30 2015, 09:24 PM
A turbo on a 3.3 Subie is a whole 'nother level of complexity. The 3.3 came NA from the factory.
Not as bad as you think really.
It is just a stretched 2.2Ls so all them piston, rods, etc work. Custom headers and down pipes and your done.
Highly oversimplifiedHad no idea it was that simple.....
Easy peasy.What a great looking setup. Bet that snaps your head back.
Posted by: patssle Oct 31 2015, 10:08 AM
Apologies for the hijack but...I took a look at your conversion blog and was wondering about your comment re: stainless braided oil line “I won’t use these again"
Why’s that?
Thanks
They are not user-friendly. Tough to get the hose ends screwed into the hose and also can scrape your fingers when cutting if not careful. They also don't bend barely at all. Also expensive.
There are some Push-Loc hoses/fittings I would probably try if I did another conversion.
Posted by: patssle Oct 31 2015, 10:11 AM
Hey,..Thanks Patssle,..That is great info,..would love to hear rhat engine,..??? LOL Frank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIIH5ZSfbTE
Posted by: flmont Oct 31 2015, 09:59 PM
Damn,that is a sweet sound.....
Posted by: MoveQik Nov 1 2015, 01:55 PM
I'm getting started on Porsche 2.7L conversion. I'll detail the process (although this has already been done) as much to keep me on track as to help others. What I do know is involved are the following:
914/6 oil tank and fittings
Early (65-69) 6 bolt flywheel
914/6 motor mount
Front oil cooler and associated lines and fittings
914/6 exhaust headers (or very expensive heat exchangers)
You will also need to make a decision on the fuel system. I am going to initially use the stock 1974 CIS injection system that came with the engine I bought. I may later switch to Megasquirt injection since I currently have that on my 2056 4.
I believe I can keep the cost below $3,000 plus the cost of the engine so a total of about $8,000. I know that a Subi could be done for much less but I like the purity of keeping a Porsche engine.
FWIW, I think you will have to be willing to wait....and wait to find the right deal on every part you need if you plan to keep it under $3k. The oil tank and neck are $1k alone. Oil lines, thermostat, fittings, cooler shroud etc will add up WAY faster than you think.
I don't know if your list was intended to be all inclusive but there are a gang of parts needed that aren't listed here. Do a search and you should be able to find it...there are a couple of threads that put together a very detailed list of every part that you need to actually get conversion on the road. It is a lot more than an engine mount, headers and oil fittings.
Posted by: r_towle Nov 1 2015, 06:51 PM
A turbo on a 3.3 Subie is a whole 'nother level of complexity. The 3.3 came NA from the factory.
Not as bad as you think really.
It is just a stretched 2.2Ls so all them piston, rods, etc work. Custom headers and down pipes and your done.
Highly oversimplifiedSubaru made a twin turbo flat six?
What car did that come in, what years?
Posted by: Chris H. Nov 1 2015, 07:29 PM
A turbo on a 3.3 Subie is a whole 'nother level of complexity. The 3.3 came NA from the factory.
Not as bad as you think really.
It is just a stretched 2.2Ls so all them piston, rods, etc work. Custom headers and down pipes and your done.
Highly oversimplifiedSubaru made a twin turbo flat six?
What car did that come in, what years?
I'm not aware of any stock Subaru 6 cylinder turbo engines. I think what they're getting at is that there WAS a 2.2L 4 cylinder turbo, and the 3.3 is just a 2.2 with 2 more cylinders so there are low compression pistons and stuff available stock. You do find some interesting builds when you search for EG33 turbo. A LOT of them have been turbo'd!
Posted by: Dtjaden Nov 1 2015, 10:49 PM
My target cost of $3,000 is of course based on used and bargain parts as well as some fabricated parts. It does not include transforming the car into a full 914-6, just what is necessary to install a 6 cylinder Porsche engine. It also, of course does not include the cost of the engine.
Some example parts costs:
Flywheel - $100 used, OEM new under $200
914-6 motor mount - Under $300 new
Oil cooler - used Mazda RX7 and oil lines, under $300
Headers - new under $700, muffler used - under $150
CIS fuel pump - OEM $100
Engine oil lines - self made $200
Engine tins - under $300 or $50 if self fabricated
Shift linkage - self modified $0
I'm still looking for a decent used oil tank & fittings (PM me if you have one)
I'm getting started on Porsche 2.7L conversion. I'll detail the process (although this has already been done) as much to keep me on track as to help others. What I do know is involved are the following:
914/6 oil tank and fittings
Early (65-69) 6 bolt flywheel
914/6 motor mount
Front oil cooler and associated lines and fittings
914/6 exhaust headers (or very expensive heat exchangers)
You will also need to make a decision on the fuel system. I am going to initially use the stock 1974 CIS injection system that came with the engine I bought. I may later switch to Megasquirt injection since I currently have that on my 2056 4.
I believe I can keep the cost below $3,000 plus the cost of the engine so a total of about $8,000. I know that a Subi could be done for much less but I like the purity of keeping a Porsche engine.
FWIW, I think you will have to be willing to wait....and wait to find the right deal on every part you need if you plan to keep it under $3k. The oil tank and neck are $1k alone. Oil lines, thermostat, fittings, cooler shroud etc will add up WAY faster than you think.
I don't know if your list was intended to be all inclusive but there are a gang of parts needed that aren't listed here. Do a search and you should be able to find it...there are a couple of threads that put together a very detailed list of every part that you need to actually get conversion on the road. It is a lot more than an engine mount, headers and oil fittings.
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