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Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 16 2005, 03:58 PM

I know I need axles for my V8 conversion but so far all anyone has come up with is to spend $800 over at our * Hybrids friends.

Aren't there any alternatives for the mechanically enclined?

Posted by: bondo Mar 16 2005, 04:03 PM

The cheapest high strength option is to use the shorter 911 axles with adapters. The adapters are expensive from the hybrid suppliers, but they aren't very complicated. If you have access to a lathe and a mill you could make them.

Posted by: ! Mar 16 2005, 04:52 PM

Use stock ones and keep the burn outs to a minimum....I have an extra set if needed....

Posted by: dlee1967 Mar 16 2005, 04:58 PM

Roger, buy four axle adapters from RH at $70 each (still steep) and then go to your local Autozone and buy two rebuilt 1970ish VW Bus axles for $89 each. They are the same size CVs at 915s and the axles are strong. Return your stock 914 axles in the core boxes and try to sleep at night for sticking them on the cores.

At least this gets you the same thing at a reduced price. Then you can do the burnouts without the risk of a flailing axle. I've broken a stock CV and it isn't pretty when it is finished spinning.



DLee

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 16 2005, 05:20 PM

Dlee. Their adapters are 70 each? times 4... 280..
Cv's are 90 x 2 thats roughly 200..

500 total

This is something I might be doing VERY soon...

Ahh spending my money finally.. lol

Posted by: bondo Mar 16 2005, 05:22 PM

You need 4, unless you use 911 stub axles, and then you'd probably still need a spacer.

Sticking them on the cores? The 914 ones are probably worth more nowadays

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 16 2005, 05:25 PM

Can you give them broken one's as cores?

Never mind, I have like 2 of em that I dont like anyways.. lol (really rough, not smooth at all... lol)

Posted by: bondo Mar 16 2005, 05:27 PM

Just return the cores on a different day and you could probably put toyota halfshafts in there

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 16 2005, 05:30 PM

Go to pick and pull, take a bag with you.. snach a couple you fine laying out there..

lol

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 16 2005, 09:32 PM

If you are going 5lug, use the 944 turbo axles. They are quite a bit bigger than the 914 axles, and they don't require an adapter. You have to change the drive flanges on the transmission for 75-76 911 , and you can use 69 911 hubs on the outboard end. It all bolts together with no machining required.

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 16 2005, 09:44 PM

Clay, really? Because I have turbo axles in the garage awaitin... (or maybe there na... I cant remember..)

Have any more details? Or do you know who has done it so I can email them?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 16 2005, 09:54 PM

I have all the pieces. Wes Hildreth of H&H in Plano Texas has done a bunch of them. It is truly a bolt in.

From the transmission outward....

75-75 911 coarse splined drive flanges (915 transmission).

complete 944 turbo axle shaft. You can tell it's the correct one if the 944 has ALUMINUM trailing arms. If it has steel arms, the axle won't work.

69 911 hubs.

The 944 turbo stub axle is the exact same splines as the 69 911. It is a bigger, beefer CV joint, and the axle length is the same as a 914. The drive flanges out of a coarse splined 915 will bolt into a 901 gearbox, and its the same bolt pattern as the 944 CV joint. It also uses 6 CV joint bolts instead of 4.

I am going to take pictures of mine when I install them. I have to make caliper mounts for the rear of my car, and then get the trailing arms powdercoated.

After that, its picture time!!!!

Posted by: Dr. Roger Mar 17 2005, 12:20 AM

QUOTE (dlee1967 @ Mar 16 2005, 02:58 PM)

Roger, buy four axle adapters from RH at $70 each (still steep) and then go to your local Autozone and buy two rebuilt 1970ish VW Bus axles for $89 each. They are the same size CVs at 915s and the axles are strong. Return your stock 914 axles in the core boxes and try to sleep at night for sticking them on the cores. At least this gets you the same thing at a reduced price. Then you can do the burnouts without the risk of a flailing axle. I've broken a stock CV and it isn't pretty when it is finished spinning. DLee

Hi dlee,

The four axle adaptors you mention do what? Just make it longer? Got pics?
I'm curious because I do have resources for milling fabrication. If it just a matter of knowing what they adapt.

I recently called * Hybrids and they said they don't sell the adaptors anymore due to hub centricity with other solutions.
Just complete axles using van axles. No spacers.




....................Roger, buy four axle adapters from RH at $70 each (still steep) and then go to your local Autozone and buy two rebuilt 1970ish VW Bus axles for $89 each. They are the same size CVs at 915s ......................

Posted by: dlee1967 Mar 17 2005, 05:44 PM

I am sorry to hear that Scott at RH has decided not to sell just the adapters. They do two things: 1) adapt the four bolt and two pin 914-4 flanges with the 6 bolt no pin 915 style (VW bus) cv joint. 2) extend the axle.

If Scott doesn't want to sell these adapters individually anymore, he is running the risk of someone knocking them off. If I can't buy them from him for my next car, I will take one of mine off and have copies made. If you have a facility to make them, maybe we can work something out. I would have to take one of my cars out of service to pull one for measurement. That doesn't sound very appealing to me, but might be an option.

I like Clay's solution, but the '69 911 stubs are getting harder to find and by the time you have collected all of the parts you might be at $500. He does have more Porsche wrecking yards in Dallas than I do in Houston.

David Lee

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 17 2005, 06:05 PM

It's not the 69 911 stub axles. It's the 69 911 hubs. And I have recently discovered that you can use the 944 hubs too.

Posted by: dlee1967 Mar 17 2005, 06:36 PM

Sorry Clay, Hubs...........If 944 fit, then we have a GREAT solution. Even in Houston we have a ton of these in the Pic-A-Parts. DLee

Posted by: kwales Mar 17 2005, 06:37 PM

OK,

You asked for it......




Ken

Posted by: Dr Evil Mar 17 2005, 06:46 PM

I found a guy on ebay not too long ago who makes any adapter you want for low$$$. No one seemed interested, so I let it go. I could see if I could find him again if anyone is interested. Then you could just do the bus axle to 914 stock.

Posted by: bondo Mar 17 2005, 07:05 PM

Here's a pic of renegade adapters. They come bare steel which turns to rust. (I got these used) I sandblasted them and put on a coat of black por-15. There's no need to copy a set of these, you'd be better off taking the measurements off the parts these bolt to. Otherwise errors will add up, and these aren't THAT precise (I have 4 and they are visibly not identical)

I have no instructions for these, but since they have a hole in the middle I assume I'll need CV gaskets on both sides of each adapter to keep the grease in. Anyone know for sure?




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Posted by: Dr. Roger Apr 11 2005, 10:48 PM

Hey Royce,

Would you be interested in selling a set of those 911 axle adaptors?

Muchas gracias',
Roger

Posted by: V6914 May 30 2005, 11:48 PM

Posted by: 914MF May 31 2005, 12:58 PM

Clay, what year of 944 Turbo has the aluminum trailing arms?

Posted by: James Adams May 31 2005, 01:17 PM

QUOTE (914MF @ May 31 2005, 01:58 PM)

Clay, what year of 944 Turbo has the aluminum trailing arms?  :boing:

All 944 tubos have aluminum trailing arms. In fact, ALL 944s after '85.5 have aluminum trailing arms (the turbo came out in '86).

There was a change to 944 CVs between '87 and '88 - I'm not sure what the change was...

Posted by: Aaron Cox May 31 2005, 01:29 PM

one would think that you would need a gasket on the inside too

Posted by: andys May 31 2005, 01:31 PM

QUOTE (James Adams @ May 31 2005, 11:17 AM)

QUOTE (914MF @ May 31 2005, 01:58 PM) Clay, what year of 944 Turbo has the aluminum trailing arms?  :boing: All 944 tubos have aluminum trailing arms. In fact, ALL 944s after '85.5 have aluminum trailing arms (the turbo came out in '86). There was a change to 944 CVs between '87 and '88 - I'm not sure what the change was...

What is the diameter of the 944T CV's? Are they perhaps the same as the Carrera and 930 CV's at 108mm?

As for the 944 wheels hubs, are they also the same spline as the Carrera/930 stub axles?

Thanks,
Andy

Posted by: blabla914 May 31 2005, 05:08 PM

Clay, thanks for the details on this swap. It looks very promising. Naturally I have a couple of questions for you.

What is it about '69 911 hubs? Do '69 hubs have a one year only spline or something?

Directly related to the first question. How can you tell if a 911 hub is a '69?

Since we've established that all 944 turbos and all 944's after 85.5 had aluminum rear trailing arms can it be said that this swap is only worthwhile if you get turbo parts? Could NA 944 parts be used? How much better than 914-4 CV's would NA 944 parts be if they will fit?

Could we get some pictures before your parts get all dolled up?

Could we get the contact info for this fellow in TX that has done a bunch of these swaps so we can learn more.

Thanks for your help.

Kelly

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (blabla914 @ May 31 2005, 05:08 PM)

Clay, thanks for the details on this swap. It looks very promising. Naturally I have a couple of questions for you. What is it about '69 911 hubs? Do '69 hubs have a one year only spline or something? Directly related to the first question. How can you tell if a 911 hub is a '69? Since we've established that all 944 turbos and all 944's after 85.5 had aluminum rear trailing arms can it be said that this swap is only worthwhile if you get turbo parts? Could NA 944 parts be used? How much better than 914-4 CV's would NA 944 parts be if they will fit? Could we get some pictures before your parts get all dolled up? Could we get the contact info for this fellow in TX that has done a bunch of these swaps so we can learn more. Thanks for your help. Kelly

1969 was the first year that Porsche used a double roller bearing on the rear of the 911.( PN 901 331 065 09). That same part number was used through 1973. The reason for using that year hub is it is the exact same part that is used on the 914 /6. We know it will fit the stock bearing. The current part number for the rear bearing on a 914 is 999 053 035 00. That same part number crosses to a 85 through 91 944.

The 944 parts BEFORE 1985 will not work. They use 2 ball bearings on the rear. They also have steel trailing arms. After 1985, the bearing is identical to the 914. The stub axle (Pn 951 331 235 01) comes from a 85-87 944. The splines and length on it are identical to the 69-73 911. The CV joint flange is 100MM in diameter and uses a 6 bolt connection. The CV joint is also about a third thicker than a 914 CV joint, and it has bigger balls ( Insert Beevis laugh here).

The CV Joint kit is PN 951 332 901 00. The joint is internally splined the same as a 914/4 axle. So if you want, you can use just the outer joints from a 944 and the inners from a 914/4. Then you get a cheap, bolt together 5 lug conversion.

To continue inboard, the inner CV joint is identical to the outer joint. On the transmission, you change the drive flanges out for the ones from a 74 -77 911 with a 915 transmission (PN 915 332 209 01). This is from a coarse splined differental 915. If the stub axle has fine splines, it won't work. It is a 6 bolt, 100MM drive flange that will bolt into the 914 transmission.

First Picture. 915 drive flange installed in a 914 side shifter transmission. Sorry, I don't have a picture out of the transmission. It's full of gear oil. I love you guys but, I am NOT draining my transmission just for a picture.




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Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 09:00 PM

Second picture. Complete 944 axle with CV joints and stub axle. The 944 axle is the exact same length as a 914 axle, so you don't even have to change anything. And you can buy a rebuilt axle assembly from your favorite parts supplier and save a bunch of work!!




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Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 09:01 PM

Third picture. Close up of the 944 cv joint and stub axle.


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Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 09:02 PM

Fourth Pict. 914/6 drive flange. This is the same as a 69-73 911 drive flange.




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Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 09:03 PM

Back side of the drive flange.




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Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 09:05 PM

Here is the 944 axle with the 914/6 hub installed on it. If you get this stuff, make sure that you get the washer and the nut. I didn't and 2 washers and 2 nuts cost me almost 100.00!!!!







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Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 09:08 PM

One last note. The outboard CV joint does NOT use a paper gasket. The stub axle has a raised flange to retain the grease.

The inboard joint DOES use a paper gasket. Get the one for a 76 911 (PN 901 332 297 00).


When I finally get ready to install the whole assembly in my car, I will be taking pictures.


Hope that helps.

Posted by: redshift May 31 2005, 09:24 PM

Karl would never make us look at dirty parts.

Oh, and the 915 drive flange, you just bolt them on, as simple as that looks?



M

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 09:28 PM

QUOTE (redshift @ May 31 2005, 09:24 PM)

Karl would never make us look at dirty parts. M

If you don't like looking at dirty parts, then I have a parts washer that you can man for a day. Otherwise....




I have not needed the axles yet, so I have not taken them apart for cleaning.

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 31 2005, 09:30 PM

My toolwench just saw this and apologized for neglecting her parts washing duties.

Posted by: Dr. Roger Jun 1 2005, 12:17 AM

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ May 31 2005, 07:00 PM)

Second picture. Complete 944 axle with CV joints and stub axle. The 944 axle is the exact same length as a 914 axle, so you don't even have to change anything. And you can buy a rebuilt axle assembly from your favorite parts supplier and save a bunch of work!!

Please don't tell me that I'm the only one that wants to hug Clay.....

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That info. is exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks again.......

Roger

Posted by: 914MF Jun 1 2005, 07:32 AM

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 1 2005, 08:04 AM

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Jun 1 2005, 12:17 AM)

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ May 31 2005, 07:00 PM) Second picture.  Complete 944 axle with CV joints and stub axle.  The 944 axle is the exact same length as a 914 axle, so you don't even have to change anything. And you can buy a rebuilt axle assembly from your favorite parts supplier and save a bunch of work!! Please don't tell me that I'm the only one that wants to hug Clay..... Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That info. is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again....... Roger

If you REALLY want to hug me you are going to have to get someone like Jenny, Mrs K or Toast to stand in for you!!!


Anyone in the DFW area who wants to do this conversion. I would be glad to let you bring the car to my house and we can do the rear 5 lug conversion there. That way we can take pictures for the board of the whole process, start to finish, complete with parts comparison.

Posted by: 736conver Jun 1 2005, 08:21 AM

Clay,

Whats your cost into these. I looked into just the axles and see that costing $350. Rear early 911/901 hubs will be around $100 if not more.
And I have no idea what the inner trans flanges would cost

Have you found it cheaper or is this just about right

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 1 2005, 08:30 AM

I found the 944 axles on the Bird board. I think I gave 100.00 for the pair with the stub axles. The hubs I got when I bought the whole load of stuff from a guy who built a 914/6 up for racing. Got the rear calipers and rotors with them, plus one original 914/6 stub axle and cv axle (but no /6 cv joints). Sold the /6 rear calipers and rotors to Lawrence.

I got the drive flanges from Zim's here in Bedford Texas. I don't remember what I paid for them, but it wasn't much.

The biggest cost was the axle nuts and washers.

My suggestion, hit the wrecking yards. Find a 944 with all the parts, including the outer hub. The 944 and the 914 use the same rear bearing, so the hub from the 944 will work. At that point, all you have to do is find the drive flange, or switch the inner joint for a 914 /4 joint.

Posted by: 914MF Jun 1 2005, 08:34 AM

Are these 944 Turbo parts or regular 944 parts?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 1 2005, 08:44 AM

I actually used 944 turbo parts. But I checked the PET cd, and the parts are no different than the standard 944 parts.

Make sure that the 944 is 86 or newer and you should get the correct parts. The part number for the stub axle is cast into the outboard side of the axle flange. You have to pull the stub axle to verify the part number.


Good luck!!!

Posted by: 914MF Jun 1 2005, 09:41 AM

Thank you!!

Posted by: andys Jun 1 2005, 09:44 AM

So, are the splines on the 944 stub axles the same as the later ('87-'89) 911/Carrera stub axles?

We know the early and late bearings have the same ID. The late bearing is 5mm longer. You can use the late hub on an early bearing by adding a 5mm spacer. So, back to the question above, if I use the late hub, will the spline on the 944 stub axle fit my hub?

Thanks,

Andy

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 1 2005, 10:10 AM

QUOTE (andys @ Jun 1 2005, 09:44 AM)

So, are the splines on the 944 stub axles the same as the later ('87-'89) 911/Carrera stub axles? We know the early and late bearings have the same ID. The late bearing is 5mm longer. You can use the late hub on an early bearing by adding a 5mm spacer. So, back to the question above, if I use the late hub, will the spline on the 944 stub axle fit my hub? Thanks, Andy

I don't know if the late 911 hubs will fit the 944 stub axles. I don't know if they are splined the same. I know for a fact that the 944 stub axles will fit the 69-73 911 hubs.

It's not the bearing that is the problem. It's the splines on the stub axle. If the later (87-89) 911 hubs can be installed on a 69 to 73 911 using the 69-73 911 stub axles, then yes, the 944 stub axle will fit too. But I don't know if there are any spacing issues with this setup.

Posted by: andys Jun 1 2005, 02:23 PM

One brand new 951 axle for $189, you know where.....Item #7977206370

Andy

Posted by: Dr Evil Jun 1 2005, 05:29 PM

Try here
www.autopartsgiant.com

for an 87 turbo shaft its like $69

Posted by: redshift Jun 1 2005, 05:55 PM

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ May 31 2005, 11:30 PM)

My toolwench just saw this and apologized for neglecting her parts washing duties.  :wavey:

It's ok, we see what she has to put up with... Teener Man..

Okee dokee man... this is something so inexpensive, why not do it, even with a punky 2.0?


M

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 13 2005, 03:16 PM

I need a full set as well...

So this is a bump!

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 13 2005, 03:36 PM

ok, now *i* have a stupid question ...

what if i have 911 hubs that fit the 914 wheel bearing and i use 911 stubaxles and halfshafts and change the drive flanges on the transmission to 75-76 911,
whouldn't that work just fine ???

Andy

Posted by: Dr Evil Jun 13 2005, 04:09 PM

911 axles are shorter so that would be an issue. If the splines for the 911 out put flanges are coarse, those will work.

Posted by: John Jentz Jun 13 2005, 04:14 PM

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jun 13 2005, 05:36 PM)

what if i have 911 hubs that fit the 914 wheel bearing and i use 911 stubaxles and halfshafts and change the drive flanges on the transmission to 75-76 911, whouldn't that work just fine ???

Only if the c/v's are 100mm and the 911 axles are supposed to be too short anyway. The earlier 108's require the earlier stubs and output flanges. With Cays config the 944 c/v's have the 914 (VW) spline and you could use the 914 axle shafts.

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 13 2005, 04:21 PM

QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Jun 13 2005, 03:09 PM)

911 axles are shorter

shorter as in "too short" or shorter as in "shorter, but still OK" ???

the axles moves quite a bit left/right, so how short is too short ???
Andy

Posted by: Mueller Jun 13 2005, 04:30 PM

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jun 13 2005, 03:21 PM)

QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Jun 13 2005, 03:09 PM) 911 axles are shorter shorter as in "too short" or shorter as in "shorter, but still OK" ??? the axles moves quite a bit left/right, so how short is too short ??? Andy

i thought I read that if you remove the clip, they can the shorter axles as is, you just have to remember that when you jack the car up or remove the transmission

Posted by: skline Jun 13 2005, 07:13 PM

Well, I called Scott at Renegade today to see if he would sell me just the adapters. The adapters are for the bus axles. He said they only sell the complete kits now. I told him I thought $780 was a little high and he said to buy them through him. He sells them for $599. all day long. So in my opinion, that is the way to go. Everything is brand new and will handle 500 horse with no problems. Now I just need to save up my pennies so I can get a set. Then I will feel comfortable driving my car the way it was built.

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 13 2005, 07:41 PM

Scott what tranny did you upgrade to?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 14 2005, 06:31 AM

QUOTE (John Jentz @ Jun 13 2005, 04:14 PM)

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Jun 13 2005, 05:36 PM) what if i have 911 hubs that fit the 914 wheel bearing and i use 911 stubaxles and halfshafts and change the drive flanges on the transmission to 75-76 911, whouldn't that work just fine ??? Only if the c/v's are 100mm and the 911 axles are supposed to be too short anyway. The earlier 108's require the earlier stubs and output flanges. With Cays config the 944 c/v's have the 914 (VW) spline and you could use the 914 axle shafts.

You don't have to change the axle shaft if you use the 944 axles. The 944 and 914 axle shafts are the exact same length.

If you are a cheap bastard, you can buy a 944 stub axle and one CV joint, and put it on the 914 /4 axle. Then use the 914 inner CV and drive flange.

If you want to do it right, use the 944 axle complete, and the 75-76 911 transmission drive flanges.

Oh, and using a 911 axle is asking for a failure. They will bolt up, but if you EVER hit full droop or full compression you WILL bind the CV joint and damage it.

Then you will be out the cost of the 911 axle parts, and your 914 will be back home on the jackstands.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jun 14 2005, 09:39 AM

so let me get this straight (from transmissoun - out)

coarse spline 915 output shafts -> 944 axle -> 944 Stub -> pre 74 911 hubs?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 15 2005, 08:54 AM

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jun 14 2005, 09:39 AM)

so let me get this straight (from transmissoun - out) coarse spline 915 output shafts -> 944 axle -> 944 Stub -> pre 74 911 hubs?

Exactly. Just make sure that the 915 axle flanges are the same bolt pattern as the 944 CV, and you are done.


Simple, No?

Posted by: Dr Evil Jun 15 2005, 11:08 AM

How hard is it to find used 915 coarse splined output flanges? Where? How much?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jun 19 2005, 09:33 AM

That would depend. You can probably find them at a swap meet. I had it easy, I found them in a used parts bin at the local P-car parts supplier. I just asked the owner, and he said "I got them back here" and we went and picked them up.


Put an add on the bird board in the 911 classifieds. They should be able to hook you up.

Posted by: matthepcat Apr 10 2011, 10:29 AM

I tried this combination yesterday with the 944 hubs. Too long to just "bolt right in" so I must have something wrong or this is just bad information.

Output shafts..check
944 axles & stubs & hubs from a 1987..check

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 10 2011, 01:18 PM

This thread is from 2005. A lot of new information has since come up. There are a few newer threads about the subject.

I'm currently running 944 CV's on machined stock 914-4 axles using 911 stubbies and 911 hubs.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=80641

Posted by: matthepcat Apr 10 2011, 03:13 PM

Thanks Andy.

I proposed the 944 hub question on your thread.

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 10 2011, 03:25 PM

It's been a long time so i don't remember all the details, but i do remember that i looked into using a 944 hub and decided against it.

Posted by: matthepcat Apr 10 2011, 04:10 PM

I noticed that the 944 hub has a hub-centric center to it.

I dont think this will work with 914-6 rotors?





Maybe that is why.

On a side note, I am glad I did not put new bearings in during this initial test fit.