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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Wont Start!!

Posted by: Skid Mar 16 2005, 07:43 PM

I took my 914 to school today and everything was working fine. After school, I hop in the car and turn the key, nothing. The battery is charged, the starter works when shorted, but I cant get it to turn over using the key. The car still starts with a push start but nothing with the key. I checked all of the connections to the starter and the battery and everything is fine. Do you think that the ignition switch has gone out and if so is this an easy fix? I have other ignitions avalible, but I like that my keys work with the locks on the car. Help!!

Posted by: vsg914 Mar 16 2005, 07:50 PM

The car turned over at the solenoid with the key on but did not start?

Posted by: Rand Mar 16 2005, 07:55 PM

Probably a crack in the ignition switch (common problem, which mine had) or bad connection in big yellow wire that runs from ignition switch to solenoid (possibly at seatbelt bypass junk under passenger seat).

Posted by: Skid Mar 16 2005, 08:08 PM

When I short across the poles on the starter with the key on I can hear the starter spinning, it does not engage with the engine. Nothing happens when I turn the key. I thought it may have been the seat belt thing but it wouldnt start with the passenger seat belt fastned either. If there is a crack in the ignition switch do I need a new ignition switch?

Posted by: Ray Warren Mar 16 2005, 08:17 PM

Sounds like a starter and or solenoid problem.
If you have one of those "hot relay" things on there
remove it and throw it away and then try it.

Posted by: vsg914 Mar 16 2005, 08:23 PM

Starter turns but does not engage. Low voltage, bad bendix, or both.

Posted by: Rand Mar 16 2005, 09:12 PM

Which poles are you shorting? If you short to starter motor, the starter will spin without engaging because that's bypassing the solenoid. Make sure you put the power to the solenoid terminal (big yellow wire).

Obvious disclaimer: make sure car is in neutral!

Posted by: Skid Mar 16 2005, 10:09 PM

Ok, I shorted the correct poles and the motor turned over, so the starter is not the problem. I disconected the seat relay thingy and no change either. So unless you guys have any other ideas, I am guessing it is the ignition switch. Do I need to replace the whole switch or can I fix it?

Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 16 2005, 10:17 PM

Grab a "electric icepick", also known as a test light. Hook it to the big yellow wire at the starter. Make sure that you ground the other end. Considering you are under the car, hook it to the ground strap that hooks the tranny to the body.

Have a friend turn the key to the startt position. If the light does not come on, pull the passenger seat. There should be 2 big yellow wires, one of which has a red tracer. Hook the test light to the big yellow wire with the red tracer, and turn the key. If the light does not come on, then replace the plastic part of the ignition switch. If the light does come on, then splice the two big yellow wires together.

Posted by: KaptKaos Mar 16 2005, 10:31 PM

What are the odds of two of us having the same problem on the same day??

I have not tried to short the starter, but I will this weekend.

Got in this AM, drove to work, no problems. Go to leave, turn the key and nothing. Push start, drive it home about 17 miles, no probelms. Get home, shut it off, try to restart - nothing.

Thanks to all that have posted. Seems I am in the same boat.

Posted by: Skid Mar 16 2005, 10:34 PM

Small world.

I will try to fix the problem tomorrow.

Posted by: ! Mar 16 2005, 10:38 PM

Both Trekkor and I had the same run on problem with an MSD ignition....happens a lot here....

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 16 2005, 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Skid @ Mar 16 2005, 08:09 PM)
I disconected the seat relay thingy and no change either.

If by "disconnected" you mean "unplugged", that is guaranteed to interrupt any current going from the ignition switch to the starter.

If by "disconnected" you mean "hooked the fat yellow wires together", then the seat belt relay is not your problem.

Either splice those two wires together permanently, or at least fake up a good solid connection between them.

The relay itself can fail (it is vulnerable to water damage and other contamination) which is one of many things that can produce exactly the symptoms you are describing.

Note that this is a 74 model year thing (though some 75s are also afflicted with it.) The probem in the 71 also mentioned here should not have anything to do with the relay.

There is a starter system troubleshooting article on the Bird's tech page, written by Jim Thorusen. Very thorough.

--DD

Posted by: KaptKaos Mar 16 2005, 10:58 PM

QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Mar 16 2005, 08:52 PM)
The relay itself can fail (it is vulnerable to water damage and other contamination) which is one of many things that can produce exactly the symptoms you are describing.

Note that this is a 74 model year thing (though some 75s are also afflicted with it.) The probem in the 71 also mentioned here should not have anything to do with the relay.

Um, mine's a 73. I assume that the issues that you describe don't apply - or am I incorrect?

Posted by: Skid Mar 16 2005, 11:55 PM

I unplugged the wire connected to the seat and I plugged the other wire into a clip that was empty. The new circuit looks to be complete and looks like it bypasses the seat relay. I doubt that this was my problem anyway, because this car is original and the seat relay has alway been hooked up and it has always worked, I do not think that it just suddenly stopped working. I think the problem is in the plastic part of my ingnition switch, where can I buy a new one of these?

Posted by: sj914 Mar 17 2005, 12:26 AM

From what I've learned on these cars, anything can just happen. As far as the ignition switch, those can be acquired cheaply.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 17 2005, 12:51 AM

QUOTE (KaptKaos @ Mar 16 2005, 08:58 PM)
Um, mine's a 73. I assume that the issues that you describe don't apply - or am I incorrect?

Damn, I mis-read that; sorry!! The 73s should not have the Infamous Seatbelt Interlock system.

QUOTE
(skid says:) I unplugged the wire connected to the seat and I plugged the other wire into a clip that was empty. blink.gif The new circuit looks to be complete and looks like it bypasses the seat relay. I doubt that this was my problem anyway, because this car is original and the seat relay has alway been hooked up and it has always worked, I do not think that it just suddenly stopped working. I think the problem is in the plastic part of my ingnition switch, where can I buy a new one of these?

By unplugging the seat connector and so on and so forth, you did nothing to bypass the relay. You simply messed with its "inputs" trying to "fool" it into closing. If the relay itself is bad, it will still not connect the two big fat yellow wires together. Since the only way for the "please start now" signal to get from the key to the starter is through the big fat yellow wires, this would keep the starter from cranking.

I suggest either connecting those two big fat yellow wires together, or at least checking at both of them for +12V when you turn the key to the "start" position. Alternately, go through the starter troubleshooting article on the Bird site.

The ignition switch (the plastic part) is available from All The Usual Sources. Including Pelican.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_electr_pg4.htm#item29

Make sure that is actually your problem, though, or you're out the $$ and the time it takes to disassemble your steering column for no good reason at all.

--DD

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 17 2005, 01:40 AM

Have you checked ground?

Run a ground wire from the starter bolt directly to the body..

Fixed my problem... Might fix yours.

Posted by: dlo914 Mar 17 2005, 02:20 AM

QUOTE (Skid @ Mar 16 2005, 05:43 PM)
I took my 914 to school today and everything was working fine. After school, I hop in the car and turn the key, nothing. The battery is charged, the starter works when shorted, but I cant get it to turn over using the key. The car still starts with a push start but nothing with the key. I checked all of the connections to the starter and the battery and everything is fine. Do you think that the ignition switch has gone out and if so is this an easy fix? I have other ignitions avalible, but I like that my keys work with the locks on the car. Help!!

how many more ignition cylinders + keys do you have? if so how much you want for one? PM back. Thanks