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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Which will be faster?
Posted by: ppickerell Mar 17 2005, 10:58 PM
My 914 will be finished soon. It will be a 2056, with a mild cam and headers but will maintain stock FI. I also have the pleasure of owning an driving for the past six months a 135K mile stock 78 911SC 3.0. My question is which car will be quicker? Is the 914's relatively lower weight enough to overcome it's lower HP? Will I finish this pricey mechanical rehab on the 914 only to lust for more power?
Posted by: MarkV Mar 17 2005, 11:00 PM
The yellow one. 
Posted by: McMark Mar 17 2005, 11:00 PM
The 911 will be faster, but the 914 will feel faster. 
2056 is pretty fun. 
Posted by: jkeyzer Mar 17 2005, 11:04 PM
I am pretty sure the 911 will be faster. 911SC is around 2900lb/180hp = 16.1lb/hp. 914 will be around 2000/110hp = 18.2lb/hp. So the 914 will be slower.
The 911 will also have more torque which will make it feel even faster.
PS: That fuel injection will probably need some modifications to accomodate the 2056.
Posted by: trekkor Mar 17 2005, 11:10 PM
Straight line, the 911's got ya.
On the a/x you got 'em.
KT
Posted by: Demick Mar 17 2005, 11:46 PM
Like others said, depends on what you mean by quicker.
Your 914 will run circles around a stock SC on the autocross course.
But in a drag race the 911 will probably win (although not by much).
911 will beat it on top speed too (but who cares about that).
Demick
Posted by: campbellcj Mar 17 2005, 11:50 PM
The better question is: which one will be more "fun"? 
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 17 2005, 11:51 PM
| QUOTE (ppickerell @ Mar 17 2005, 08:58 PM) |
| Will I finish this pricey mechanical rehab on the 914 only to lust for more power? |
Ayup
Posted by: trekkor Mar 17 2005, 11:54 PM
By 2006, we'll all have SIXES.
KT
Posted by: McMark Mar 17 2005, 11:57 PM
Except me. 
Posted by: airsix Mar 18 2005, 12:30 AM
| QUOTE (Demick @ Mar 17 2005, 09:46 PM) |
| 911 will beat it on top speed too (but who cares about that). |
My goal is to get the 914-turbo to a higher speed than my M3. I'm still running without the intercooler, and my injectors are too small, but I'm already within 19mph. My goal is to have the worlds fastest 1.7l 914 with 100,000 miles on stock internals.
-Ben M.
Posted by: anthony Mar 18 2005, 12:56 AM
| QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Mar 17 2005, 10:04 PM) |
| I am pretty sure the 911 will be faster. 911SC is around 2900lb/180hp = 16.1lb/hp. 914 will be around 2000/110hp = 18.2lb/hp. So the 914 will be slower. |
FWIW, a stock SC weighs around 2600 lbs. and most 914s weigh more than 2000lbs. The SC will still be a lot faster than a 914/2056 with 100-110hp.
2600/180hp = 14.4lb/hp
2100/110hp = 19.1lb/hp
Still, I find my 914 more fun than my SC on a twisty back road or AX course. It feels more tossable and is a lot easier to drive near the limit. The SC is a better cruiser, more comfortable, and puts a nice smile on your face when put you smash the accelerator.
Posted by: markb Mar 18 2005, 02:22 AM
| QUOTE (anthony @ Mar 17 2005, 10:56 PM) |
| Still, I find my 914 more fun than my SC on a twisty back road or AX course. It feels more tossable and is a lot easier to drive near the limit. The SC is a better cruiser, more comfortable, and puts a nice smile on your face when put you smash the accelerator. |
Posted by: dmenche914 Mar 18 2005, 11:01 AM
Fastest? After some thought ont he subject, In a free fall my bet would be on our rear engined brother winning. The tail heavy 911 would likely assume a tail first dive if sent out of an airplane, the car would be fairly airodymanic in that position. The 914 with its mid center of gravity would I think be more prone to an unstable tumble as it dashes towards Earth. The tumble would reduce the speed for airodynamic reasons.
Now to be practical, on a winding road, the 914 can out run most other cars, and that can include the 911 with lots of HP more than the 914, agian engine placement being the reason, but for a different reason than in the prior example.
Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 18 2005, 11:05 AM
Swap engines. Sell the 911 as a "Rare" 912 on eBay!
Posted by: ppickerell Mar 18 2005, 11:26 AM
I will never be drag racing them so who cares about straight line speed. The few times I AX'ed my 914 while it was at 1.7 I truly did feel like I could throw it full speed into any corner. When I ran my SC it was fighting me all the way. Yet when I hit a nice wide on ramp to a clear freeway I appreciate the SC's grunt! I know I will enjoy the 2056 but I already regret not going six and I haven't even driven the car yet!
Posted by: ppickerell Mar 18 2005, 11:27 AM
| QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Mar 18 2005, 09:05 AM) |
| Swap engines. Sell the 911 as a "Rare" 912 on eBay! |
I have a line on a 3.2 carrera six that I think I will just tuck away for now. I can't see molesting the SC, it is too nice! I removed the center console for my big foot and that was bad enough.
Posted by: nebreitling Mar 18 2005, 01:26 PM
Whoa! talking /6 before you've even driven your new car? enjoy what you got for a while. it'll be fun, and not blindingly fast, and that's okay!
if you need to go faster, start ditching weight.
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 18 2005, 03:30 PM
Don't spend much time worrying over it.
Take that thing out and flog it. When you reach the point where you feel the lack of power is holding you back, then decided what you want to do......that should keep you busy for a couple years. By then, you'll also know if you really wanna get serious about AX.
Posted by: Scott Carlberg Mar 18 2005, 03:31 PM
| QUOTE (MarkV @ Mar 17 2005, 09:00 PM) |
| The yellow one. |
Posted by: fiid Mar 18 2005, 05:43 PM
| QUOTE (airsix @ Mar 17 2005, 10:30 PM) | ||
My goal is to get the 914-turbo to a higher speed than my M3. I'm still running without the intercooler, and my injectors are too small, but I'm already within 19mph. My goal is to have the worlds fastest 1.7l 914 with 100,000 miles on stock internals. -Ben M. |
Such an inspiration. :-) Good job man. Just how quick is it?
Posted by: fiid Mar 18 2005, 05:46 PM
| QUOTE (ppickerell @ Mar 18 2005, 09:27 AM) | ||
I have a line on a 3.2 carrera six that I think I will just tuck away for now. I can't see molesting the SC, it is too nice! I removed the center console for my big foot and that was bad enough. |
Seems like you have it all worked out. Enjoy the 2056 - and when you get bored of it, go to the 3.2
Sounds from other threads like you will have your suspension and brakes worked out too, which is the other part of the equation. I'd spend a good year getting some seat time and see how you feel afterwards. Theres no rule saying you can't pull the 2056 next yr (or even in 5yrs)
Posted by: Howard Mar 18 2005, 06:05 PM
Lies, damned lies, but POC statistics:
Your 914 would run in C Improved
Your 911 would run in I Stock
Or fix up the SC (tires, suspension, etc.) and run in I improved
Lap records Willow Springs (big track)
CI: 1:41.019 IS: 1:45.012 II: 1:36.288
Streets (short track)
CI: 1:18.736 IS: 1:20.574 II: 1:19.517
Posted by: grantsfo Mar 18 2005, 09:02 PM
Well since some relatively stock 85 hp 1.8s out there can beat times of stock 911 SC's in AX your not depending on increased power there.
With a 2056 you'll have good off the line acceleration to about 50 MPH and then the 911 will walk away. Thats better than running away like 911's do when I chase them in my 85 hp beast at speeds over 50 mph.
Its funny because I have a Boxster and I'm always impressed how that car pulls from 60 MPH to 150 MPH. There is just no substitute for more power at higher speeds where wind resistance comes into play.
I think the greastest illustration how HP rules at speed is a video of and Elise taking on a Corvette on Nurburgring. The Elise is all over the Vette in the corners and trying to pass and when they get to the straights the Corvette almost disapears into the horizon because its so much faster over 100 mph.
So yeah your always going to want more power but in the 914 you dont need it in most cases.
Posted by: airsix Mar 19 2005, 12:50 AM
| QUOTE (fiid @ Mar 18 2005, 03:43 PM) |
| Such an inspiration. :-) Good job man. Just how quick is it? |
Thanks Fiid.
The hardest run I've done got to ~128mph indicated and pulling hard when the injectors hit 100% duty cycle and the audible ECU alarm went off (signalling injector saturation). Data log showed the intake temps were 190F (ambient temp was low 70's). I've got an intercooler I haven't installed yet, and I'm working on rounding up some bigger injectors. Fun stuff. How's that Scooby project coming? It's been a while since I saw a progress report (I'm not one to talk - I haven't done squat in months).
-Ben M.
Posted by: Rob Ways Mar 19 2005, 08:45 AM
A prepared 914-4 is formidable competition on short AX tracks. Usually fills out a good portion of the top 20. On longer straights you have time to sip your latte (oops I mean chug your beer).
Posted by: joea9146 Mar 19 2005, 09:01 AM
| QUOTE (ppickerell @ Mar 18 2005, 01:27 PM) | ||
I have a line on a 3.2 carrera six that I think I will just tuck away for now. I can't see molesting the SC, it is too nice! I removed the center console for my big foot and that was bad enough. |
Take the 3.0 from the SC for the 914 and put a 3.6 in the SC
Posted by: jim912928 Mar 19 2005, 09:31 AM
No..keep everything as is and let me get that 3.2l engine!
Posted by: PatW Mar 19 2005, 09:44 AM
| QUOTE (ppickerell @ Mar 18 2005, 09:26 AM) |
| I know I will enjoy the 2056 but I already regret not going six and I haven't even driven the car yet! |
Well, when you get tired of the 914. Sell it to me..
Posted by: airsix Mar 19 2005, 12:47 PM
| QUOTE (Sammy @ Mar 19 2005, 02:56 AM) |
| AX must be different in other parts O' the country. My SC (pre turbo I'm talkin) gets beat by 914s with big sixes, but rarely by a 4 unless there's a whole bunch of suspension and tiars etc done to it. |
Here too. It's hard to compete in a 914-4. Our clubs have so many Mustang and Vette drivers that the courses ALWAYS have at least 2 sections 100yrds long with barely a token bend in them. But I'm working on a plan (they haven't seen the turbo yet)...
-Ben M.
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