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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 914-6 headers
Posted by: pete-stevers Mar 22 2005, 01:26 PM
I was wondering what is a good brand of headers for a 3.0 914-6 conversion.... im looking for opinions, stainless or steel /size 
thanks
steve
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 22 2005, 01:55 PM
I use the Bursch. Once you get the rotten paint off, they work OK. My only complaint is the clearance (or lack of it ) below the oil cooler feed line. 
work.
Dave at Triad was making some....I assume they are done now.
He makes gud stuff.....& prolly puts good paint on em'.
Posted by: Marv's3.6six Mar 22 2005, 02:12 PM
Try Martin @ MSDS for headers. I just ordered up mine for my 3.6 transplant, good pricing and PCA discount. He is Maltese Falcon at the 914club here.
Posted by: trekkor Mar 22 2005, 03:05 PM
They are great. Perfect fit, too.
Mine are RED.
KT
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Posted by: d914 Mar 22 2005, 07:55 PM
european race headers, makes for 4's also, real nice guy
Posted by: Series9 Mar 22 2005, 08:10 PM
Mine are from Patrick Motor Sports. I'm happy with them. These are 1 3/4", but I would probably use 1 5/8" for a stockish 3.0.
I agree with the others to contact Maltese Falcon (Marty). He's a really nice guy and deserves our support.
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Posted by: ! Mar 22 2005, 09:01 PM
| QUOTE (d914 @ Mar 22 2005, 05:55 PM) |
| european race headers, makes for 4's also, real nice guy |
I agree....euro dude is the one.
Boycott Patrick....he thinks I am a God...sumthing.....I think he's just a putz. mAKE MY DAY TELL HIM I said so.....
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 22 2005, 09:28 PM
| QUOTE (mikez @ Mar 22 2005, 07:01 PM) |
| [QUOTE=d914,Mar 22 2005, 05:55 PM] Boycott Patrick....he thinks I am a God...sumthing... |
As long as he don't think he's Denny Crane..........
Posted by: Series9 Mar 22 2005, 09:50 PM
| QUOTE (mikez @ Mar 22 2005, 08:01 PM) |
| Boycott Patrick... |
I met him in person recently. He looks like John McEnroe.
Posted by: Qarl Mar 22 2005, 09:51 PM
European Racing Headers (I think that's where Patrick gets them).
Look in the Vendor Resources...
George Narbel is the guy!
Bradholio recommends them too!
Posted by: Maltese Falcon Mar 22 2005, 10:38 PM
Marv, check your incoming FedEx ground next week--you've got headers ! Thanks for your product support (Trekkor 
). Marv's purchase also just put 9.14% into the Brad fund !!
Steve, you may want to consider a good metallic/ ceramic coating for your (B.C.) climate. We also offer coating upgrades that resist salt, snow, and moisture. Our long tube headers feature rotational fire collectors, and full length to the exhaust hanger--no extra cost ext. tubes. These are also now available at GPR, and one set will be raffled off at WCC '05 
Marty
Posted by: xitspd Mar 22 2005, 10:52 PM
I used Patrick Motorsports on my 3.6 project (image attached). I used European on my 2.7 project. Both have excellent fit. I have heard good things about MSDS as well. You can not go wrong with any of the three aformentioned suppliers.
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Posted by: jim912928 Mar 23 2005, 08:39 AM
ok..who makes them with heat...i live in the midwest and can't go with just straight headers!
Posted by: 9146986 Mar 23 2005, 08:54 AM
Patrick's parts are European Racing Headers.
I'd get Marty's or ERH. Bursch are junk and I wouldn't put them on any car. I feel slightly stronger about Bursch than Zois does about Patrick.
The only ones to get with heat would be GHL. I used to sell B & B, but they have fit problems with 75% of all the sets I've sold.
Do not make heat exchangers out of mild steel headers, UNLESS YOU WANT TO DIE 
Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 23 2005, 09:05 AM
| QUOTE (9146986 @ Mar 23 2005, 07:54 AM) |
| Do not make heat exchangers out of mild steel headers, UNLESS YOU WANT TO DIE |
do tell?
Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 23 2005, 09:11 AM
| QUOTE (jim912928 @ Mar 23 2005, 06:39 AM) |
| ok..who makes them with heat...i live in the midwest and can't go with just straight headers! |
B&B does. They retail for around $1720 or so a set. Being a shop, I can get a slight cut in price on them, but not much, like $100. They are SSI's with heater boxes. I want a set really bad, but to spend that much....... just haven't been able to do it yet.
Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 23 2005, 09:16 AM
| QUOTE (9146986 @ Mar 23 2005, 06:54 AM) |
| The only ones to get with heat would be GHL. I used to sell B & B, but they have fit problems with 75% of all the sets I've sold. |
GHL? Who are they? Link to site please? I have only ever seen the Billy Boat stuff with heat before.
Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 23 2005, 09:19 AM
Google rocks, that was easy:
http://www.ghlmotorsports.com/
Now to find 914-6 stuf.....
Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 23 2005, 09:22 AM
$1625.... 
They look better than the B&B ones.
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Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 23 2005, 10:01 AM
brrrrr! this was addressed in the tech questions in excellence. they recommended (bruce anderson) using the h.e.s from for a 911t. he states "they do work and will actually gain power over the stock exhaust on the 3.0-liter SC engine!". have you looked into a vendor that carries SSI Inc. products? you're gonna pay no matter what. what's comfort worth?
k
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 23 2005, 03:33 PM
| QUOTE (9146986 @ Mar 23 2005, 06:54 AM) |
I'd get Marty's or ERH. Bursch are junk and I wouldn't put them on any car. I feel slightly stronger about Bursch than Zois does about Patrick. |
Ah, now that I know better, if mine ever quit expelling the exhaust gasses to their assigned place....which they've been doing for 5-6 years.... I'll get sumthin' else.
After all, who could argue with your (or Mikey's) logically considered opinions.
Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 23 2005, 03:39 PM
you crack me up jp.
k
Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 23 2005, 03:56 PM
| QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Mar 23 2005, 11:01 AM) |
| they recommended (bruce anderson) using the h.e.s from for a 911t. he states "they do work and will actually gain power over the stock exhaust on the 3.0-liter SC engine!". |
of course, if you run 911 HE's on a 914.6, you get to run sidepipes :-) ...
i think GHL may be the hot (sorry...) setup for 914.6 HE's right now, although i can't see how they possibly get equal-length tubes inside those shrouds...
Posted by: J P Stein Mar 23 2005, 04:06 PM
| QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Mar 23 2005, 01:39 PM) |
| you crack me up jp. k |
Only cause I bribed you with cookies
Posted by: Aaron Cox Mar 23 2005, 04:09 PM
| QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 23 2005, 02:56 PM) | ||
of course, if you run 911 HE's on a 914.6, you get to run sidepipes :-) ... i think GHL may be the hot (sorry...) setup for 914.6 HE's right now, although i can't see how they possibly get equal-length tubes inside those shrouds... |
all that is required is cutting,rotating, and rewelding the flanges correct? and an extension pipe right?
Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 23 2005, 04:22 PM
| QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 23 2005, 02:09 PM) | ||||
all that is required is cutting,rotating, and rewelding the flanges correct? and an extension pipe right? |
Nah, it's more than that, they just don't work under a 914 very well. I had a set of 911 headers, not heater boxes, the pipes ran into the susp ears. Not worth cutting and welding them all up and such.
I have an extra set of Bursch 1 5/8" headers. I know, I know, some people don't like them.
Thier fine, just crapy paint is all. What are they going for now? $350? The extra set I have is new, never been installed.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 23 2005, 05:13 PM
I know of several 3.2's running 225hp at the rear wheels with STOCK 9146 heat exchangers. Dont discount them. They work just fine on 3.0 and 3.2 engines. You end up with a little more bottom end torque and *might* lose some HP on the top end... but TORQUE moves the car forward and sets you in the seat. Oh.. you have heat if you locate a decent used set.
B
Posted by: Root_Werks Mar 23 2005, 05:25 PM
| QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Mar 23 2005, 03:13 PM) |
| I know of several 3.2's running 225hp at the rear wheels with STOCK 9146 heat exchangers. Dont discount them. They work just fine on 3.0 and 3.2 engines. You end up with a little more bottom end torque and *might* lose some HP on the top end... but TORQUE moves the car forward and sets you in the seat. Oh.. you have heat if you locate a decent used set. B |
torque = accelration. A good set of used original heater boxes would work just fine on a 3.0...... if you could find a set.One of the things I have noticed is the length of tubes. When all three tubes meet at the very end, that creates more torque, right? With most engines, sort of makes you want to grab a set of the "W" headers so all 3 pipes meet up ASAP and run long pipes back to the muffler to help out the top end? Probably just depends on the motor set up?
Posted by: lapuwali Mar 23 2005, 05:45 PM
| QUOTE (Root_Werks @ Mar 23 2005, 03:25 PM) | ||
torque = accelration. A good set of used original heater boxes would work just fine on a 3.0...... if you could find a set.One of the things I have noticed is the length of tubes. When all three tubes meet at the very end, that creates more torque, right? With most engines, sort of makes you want to grab a set of the "W" headers so all 3 pipes meet up ASAP and run long pipes back to the muffler to help out the top end? Probably just depends on the motor set up? |
Generally, longer header pipes before they meet at a collector means more low-end, shorter header pipes means more high end. Diameter also makes a difference, but the length makes a bigger difference. They all make about the same amount of torque (as in area under the curve), but whether the torque curve tips down, or is flat, or tips up, depends on the pipe length. A tipped-up curve means you get more torque at higher revs, so more HP at the top, but you have to shift more to keep the engine up in the range.
Posted by: jim912928 Mar 23 2005, 06:15 PM
Ok..anybody have a good set of stock 914-6 heat exchangers they want to part with?
Posted by: klink Mar 26 2005, 10:08 PM
Question....Small motor, 2.2L, what size headers? I have been told to stay down around 1 1/2 inch for back pressure for the carbeurators. I notice that GLH smallest size is 1 5/8inch. Also how is the performance of the GLH headers? They look like a good way to go seeing as I would like to keep the heat exchangers.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Mar 26 2005, 11:05 PM
From what I gather the GHL's produce little to NO heat. Someone who owns a set will chime in.
The GHL design is semi based on the early Turbo 930 headers. Really short primaries and LONG secondaries. Porsche also used this setup on the thermal reactor cars (which was close to worthless).. so.. make your own decision. I know we dont have much to choose from. One day I actually thought I was going to do something for the 914 crowd... but it was a pipe dream that went bad.
B
Posted by: Gint Mar 26 2005, 11:15 PM
I have the set from mine that don't have any holes in the exhaust tubes. The exchanger boxes aren't the prettiest though. Of course I don't have to sell them for nearly as much as I paid for the $700 replacements. PM if you're interested.
Posted by: ! Mar 26 2005, 11:17 PM
yeah....me.....talk to me about them.....
Posted by: 9146986 Mar 27 2005, 08:44 AM
| QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Mar 26 2005, 09:05 PM) |
| I actually thought I was going to do something for the 914 crowd... but it was a pipe dream that went bad. |
Yea, me too. I focused alot of attention on this seven years ago, and ended up dropping the idea.
I actually shipped a set of factory 914-6 HE's to Martin Pedersen in Europe, at Dansk to see if they would make them out of stainless.
He replied "we scrapped the factory tooling at the order of Porsche".
I'm sure you arrived at the same point; the tooling expense isn't justifiable.
I'd love to see accurate dyno tests comparing the B&B, GHL, factory HE's, as well as the Bursch, MSDS, and European Racing headers.
I know of several 3.0 conversion cars with the factory HE's, and after driving them you'd think it near impossible to get more power from the exhaust. Not bad for a exhaust with 1 1/4 ID tubing!
Posted by: rhodyguy Mar 27 2005, 10:15 AM
who had the set of triad 6 headers with the provision for heat? they weren't using them and had offered them for sale , sort of, in a thread. someone in arizona, new mex? i would have liked to see a pictue of them.
k
Posted by: Triaddave Mar 27 2005, 12:11 PM
i have a set of headers built and ready to ship and install. no heat but fit real well. no modifications to the shift bar needed. come with the head gaskets. they are steel with the 1 5/8 pipe. think i have three more unbuilt. they sell for $600.00 + shipping, if you need an exhaust with that i can give a price break, so headers and final exhaust would run at $870.00 + shipping, a $50.00 savings... still no heat though
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