I had a question on the pics forum and was guided to post a new thread. This was probably discussed before, but here goes... I have recently added new steel flares and larger rims(17x7and 8) Does any one believe because of this the susp. should be "BEEFED" up. I currenly have stock BOGE struts and 170# springs.The rims are secured to the original 4 bolt hubs. Cheers,Dion
Whatcha got on the fronts? (shocks, T bars, sway bar..)
What kind of engine?
Tires?
170 is alot.. If its stiff, then dont worry about it. If it understears or overstears and you want to change it... then OK.. if its perfect to ya.. then leave it!
Completley stock,,2.0l,. I'm still getting used to the feel. As I was on 5.5x15' for the past 15 years. I have not pushed the car yet to see it's limitations. waiting for the autocross season for that.
73 with a sway bar?
I would upgrade either the sway bar or the T bars or both when you have 170's in the rear. Thats shootin for some MAJOR oversteer. Can you say lift throttle oversteer? lol
A good known combo for stock cars is 140's in the rear, koni shocks all around, 19mm sway bar, and 19mm T bars (I think factory is like 17 on each.. forget) but a 21mm sway bar would be fine. Its all about gettin it "there" then doing adjustments. With more tire you CAN run more bar in the rear... but still.
Maybe downgrading to 140 lb springs would be best?
How stiff is the ride?
This is all my opinion. Im sure others will chime in.
The ride is not too harsh, maybe i'm just used to it. Refresh my memory regarding these beasts...I do not have any sway bars currently. Do you add a front only or a rear.I know you can do both but which one goes on if you only do one?. I fit is the front , can you do it without dropping the fuel tank. Would a top strut brace help a 914 without any swaybar? thanks
IIRC i was told on the forum you should always install the front swaybar if you had one choice. instally only a rear swaybar would cause the rear to be too stiff and cause the rear to swing out on a hard turn. i too have no sway bars at this moment, but i plan to do a complete suspension upgrade w/ 19mm T bars & 19 or 22mm sway up front and bilstein adjustable strut perches in the rear & and maybe a stock rear sway bar....
please correct me if i am wrong for i am still a NOoblet....
Thanks Daniel
Install a front if you dont already have one. You dont need anymore rear.
QUOTE (Dion @ Mar 24 2005, 12:43 AM) |
Thanks Daniel |
There is NO need to install larger torsion bars... we have larger sway bars. I stopped selling the Weltmeister bars several years back when several other places gave us 24/27/31 mm bars. Spend the money on a larger bar.. it adds up to the same amount of money as if you bought larger torsion bars and the cheaper Welt bar. The difference: you will have a TON of adjustment with the larger bar.. but the overall ride will stay semi stock. Increase the torsion bars and the ride gets stiff.
B
QUOTE (Dion @ Mar 24 2005, 02:55 AM) |
Do you add a front only ...which one goes on if you only do one? ...can you do it without dropping the fuel tank. Would a top strut brace help a 914 without any swaybar? |
Why has no one done this yet???
QUOTE (ken914 @ Mar 24 2005, 09:13 AM) |
Why has no one done this yet??? |
Oh, I like that "oversteer" pic!!
Dion, one key point is that suspension setup is all about balance. You have stiffened up the rear suspension of the car very significantly (almost three times as stiff as stock!), and left the front alone. This means that the rear end is very likely to be the one that breaks traction first. (See Rich's picture of the results of "oversteer".) You ought to stiffen up the front suspension somehow to get the car back into balance again.
You can do this by upgrading the torsion bars to larger, stiffer parts. (If my math is correct 23mm might be a decent match?) You can also do this by installing a front sway bar, or increasing the size of the one that is in there. Increasing the size of the front torsion bars is, effectively, increasing the front spring rate, which will make the car's ride significantly harder. Increasing the front sway bar size will not affect the ride quality as much, but both wheels will react when one wheel goes over a bump.
Or you can increase both the torsion bar size and the sway bar size.
The biggest benefit from using a sway bar to do at least some of this "making the front suspension stiffer" work is, as Brad said, because it is pretty easy to adjust the effective stiffness of a sway bar. Not so easy for a spring or a torsion bar...
I, personally, would think about downgrading the rear springs quite a bit. The 100 lb/in rate seems to be a good match for the factory front sway bar (no adjustment though) or the 19mm aftermarket adjustable bar. For 140-ish lb/in rear springs, the 19mm is a bit on the small size but is still useable; the 21mm is a bit on the large size but is very useable and might be the better idea. I wouldn't go much stiffer than 150 lb/in rear springs on a street car...
--DD
QUOTE (Dave_Darling @ Mar 24 2005, 10:42 AM) |
Oh, I like that "oversteer" pic!! The biggest benefit from using a sway bar to do at least some of this "making the front suspension stiffer" work is, as Brad said, because it is pretty easy to adjust the effective stiffness of a sway bar. |
The description I always liked was;
Understeer = you get to watch the wreck
Oversteer = they tell you about the wreck at the hospital
hey!
thats engineering "murry pad"!
LOL - i got me lots of that.......
back to reg. sched. programming
Me agrees with Bradhole and others... I like stock or near stock t-bars (I'm using stock 911 units) and larger sway bars.
However, to address the question of "Stronger" suspension:
If'n I had 17x7 and 8 meat on my ride (same day the monkey's fly out of my butt), I would consider a lot of the fairly easy tricks to beef up the spindle and steering arm. If you have access to a welder (either the machine or the guy next door) you can "strengthen" your suspension to handle the extra G's those tires can deliver. Check the threads for RS and RSR upgrades and/or raised spindles. I'm not saying you need to raise your spindles, it's just that there's a picture of some steering arm and spindle reinforcements in one of those threads. (if my feable old mind serves me correctly).
There is the talk of balance, but you also have to remember he is running 1" wider in the rear so he will have more stiction in the back with that to offset a little bit of the beefier springs in the rear. I would start with a swaybar first, use that and adjust till you like it - if you need more then step up to larger torsion bars, or softer rear springs.
I went backwards on mine, I had larger rear springs when I replaced the shocks (150lb) and stock front suspension and no swaybar. Worked fine on the street, I was never pushing the car hard anyhow. I then needed to replace the front bushings and I figured I would need an alignment when done, so now is the time to do torsion bars - in went 22mm torsion bars (and it was cheaper than a bar, cost was a factor at the time). last thing for me was a swaybar. If I was to do it all over, front bar after the rear springs is what I would have done.
i have 140's, 19mm bars, 24mm sway, and a stock rear bar.....
handles great, i hate the brakedive and throttle squat though....
i have some 180's to throw on.... but that woud mean new T bars....
Aaron,
I'm guessing by the size that you have a 24mm Tarret ? Step up on the rear springs IF you have the Tarret. You have plenty of room for adjustment.
I'm verbally NOT fond of progressive springs... so the 140's/180's are not my favorite choice. I like to run/install linear rate springs (Eibach/H&R)
B
My preferred street setup is stock t-bars with 23mm weltmeister bar up front. Out back 180s with no sway bar work well.
To balance my ride the sway bar had to be run at half way, so I see know reason to go up to a bigger bar for the street.
One problem with the 914 front suspension is roll center locations. When you lower the car any from the stock location it will move the roll centers. Add into that the really short A-arms and you get major movement of the roll center. When this happens you have to run a pretty stiff setup to keep roll down to a minimum. Now if you want to build new a-arms and move to nice coil over setup this would limit the need for superstiff suspension, although you will lose a little trunk space.
Gentleman,You guys are great I am learning more than ever. thanks every one for the input. I am really glad I found this site. Find pic below. Cheers,Dion
Attached image(s)
Does any one know how downsize the damn pic to post it? Sorry for the large format>
Dion.. I need for you to shrink your pics a tad before posting them. Something in the 640X480 range is easier on peoples monitors. I'll take care of this one. Thanks for posting the pic. The car looks awesome.
I took care of it for you.
We typically tell people about "Irfanview" It is a very simple photo editing software that is "free".
B
Thanks Brad
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Mar 24 2005, 11:01 AM) |
hey! thats engineering "murry pad"! |
Looks great Dion, you ought to lower the car a little, especially the front (mostly for asthetics)
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