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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Experienced V8 Guys
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 24 2005, 06:49 PM
I am having a hell of a time getting my clutch set up 
, and now I am getting conflicting advice from Kennedy & Renegade. The problem is I like & trust the guys at both places so now I don't know what to do. I know there are plenty of you guys out there who have 901's mated to SBCs with out any problem, and I need your help here.
My problem is I cannot get the new parts I bought to work. There's more detail http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=26613, but this is the short version: I just bought a Stage III 9" KEP pressure plate and 9" Sachs organic disk. I have one washer under the pivot ball so that there is about 1/8" free play in the fork when the trans is mated to the engine. I can tighten the clutch cable so that the fork goes so far back when I step on the clutch that it hits the trans, but the clutch will not release all the way. I have had the trans in & out of the car 7 times making different adjustments, nothing helps.
Spoke to Scott at Renegade today, and he says those parts ain't gonna get it w/ a 901. Said the Stage III press plate is going to pull my pivot ball out of my trans eventually, and the Sachs disk won't work because it is too thick. Scott says I need a Stage II plate, and a kevlar disk, because the kevlar is thinner.
So I called KEP to tell them I need to send this stuff back and get the right parts. Dave at KEP says he's not in agreement with Scott that this stuff won't work. He was very nice and helpfull but he said: 1) he doesn't think kevlar disks are a good idea period, but shouldn't be neccessary anyway because 2) the pressure plate is engineered by them specifically for this application with this disk, and they work. He told me that they had a problem with their CNC setup briefly, and my press plate may have been made and sent out before they caught it, resulting in the friction ring on the plate being too think, and explaining why my clutch won't release. Dave then expressed concerns about my Renegade adaptor plate and the fly wheel I have and worried they might be creating problems too if they are not the right heights & thicknesses for the way their clutch is engineered. KEP is willing to have me send the press plate back to them, and they will check it out, If they find a problem, they will replace it with whatever I want, but I got the feeling they won't take the disk back at all, and if there is nothing wrong the the press plate, they aren't exchanging that either. He even wanted me to send my flywheel, but I really don't want to pull it off again.
I know several of you guys have tons of experience with this, whereas this is the only one I have ever played with, so I have no frame of reference in sorting out who to believe. If you guys can offer some direction here, I sure would be grateful. 
Posted by: bondo Mar 24 2005, 07:05 PM
What is Scott talking about? It's not a pull type clutch. (or at least it shouldn't be) That pivot ball is being pushed into the trans, not pulled out.
I would say get the measurements from KEP and check the pressure plate yourself. And measure the thickness of the adapter, and the dimensions fo the flywheel. Give these dimensions to kennedy, and they can tell you if it's ok.
You recently changed your crankshaft, right? Could the end of the crank stick out the back a different amount than the old one? Seems unlikely, but who knows.
Posted by: bondo Mar 24 2005, 07:08 PM
I should mention that I'm extra interested in the outcome of this as I plan to run the same or a similar clutch. Either stage II or III, no kevlar. I already have the adapter plate (billet renegade), and I plan to get the rest from KEP (including the flywheel).
What are your thoughts on pedal effort of the stage III?
Posted by: airsix Mar 24 2005, 07:14 PM
Scott's comments don't make sense (like bondo said). Listen to Kennedy. He knows what he's talking about and he stands behind his work (ie. he'll make things right). You should get complete clutch release in probably half the available fork travel. Be warned that you want to limit the fork travel - too much and you'll bust the diaphram in the pressure plate. It's already overstressed as it is. I'd send the pressure plate back to KEP for inspection.
-Ben M. (KEP stageII)
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 24 2005, 07:43 PM
You know what guys, you are right. Scott didn't say "pull it out". His exact words were "make a big hole in the side of your transmission". I said pull it out as short hand without thinking it through. My bad.
Posted by: 914GT Mar 24 2005, 07:46 PM
I have the KEP Stage III clutch. It was necessary to remove the washer under the pivot ball, use the bolts for the throwout bearing tube, and to bend the clutch fork slightly to get the maximum range without interfering with the case or the back side of the pressure plate. If you don't do these things you'll never get enough range to release the clutch. The stage III does need a little more effort but no big deal unless you're stuck in heavy traffic, then it can get to be tiring (well, so can any clutch I guess).
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 24 2005, 07:46 PM
Hey Royce, could you measure the distance the billet plate will space the trans out from the block. I have the cast adapter, and I was curious if that could be part of the problem. The cast plate moves the trans out 5/8", BTW.
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 24 2005, 07:50 PM
Guy, were you able to get free play by bending too?
Posted by: bondo Mar 24 2005, 07:58 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Mar 24 2005, 06:46 PM) |
| Hey Royce, could you measure the distance the billet plate will space the trans out from the block. I have the cast adapter, and I was curious if that could be part of the problem. The case plate moves the trans out 5/8", BTW. |
It spaces the trans back 0.665 inches. Just 0.04 in difference.. I wouldn't think that would be enough to throw things out of whack.
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 24 2005, 08:07 PM
| QUOTE (bondo @ Mar 24 2005, 07:58 PM) |
| It spaces the trans back 0.665 inches. Just 0.04 in difference.. I wouldn't think that would be enough to throw things out of whack |
Thanks bud. I had to measure mine in the car, and the tie down strap holding up the back of the engine was sort of in the way. So, mine might be exactly the same as yours.
Posted by: JB 914 Mar 24 2005, 08:10 PM
Scott Kline......Paging Scott Kline to the club for an urgent message 
I think Scott Kline had the same problem with his setup. he had to remove the washer under the pivot ball. He swore i needed to on mine when i swapped my tranny, but, i showed him the washer was still on the tranny i replaced. did not have to remove it for mine.
Posted by: MecGen Mar 24 2005, 08:14 PM
I have done a lot of clutches in my 20 years of this trade.
The times where I pulled the trans out more then twice,
was ALWAYS a bad new part. You might have a mixmatch problem. Send everything to KEP and get a strait answer,
then deside if you try to adjust/bend forks, or pay for a new clutch kit.
Its easy to spend other peoples money, but I think this is a good solution.
Regards
Joe
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 24 2005, 08:15 PM
"No washers" was my first attempt, but it left me too much free play on the fork, and not much throw left once the bearing actually reached the p plate, so I put one in. reduced the free play dramatically, but even with pretty darn good throw, still won't release.
Posted by: bondo Mar 24 2005, 08:28 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Mar 24 2005, 07:07 PM) | ||
Thanks bud. I had to measure mine in the car, and the tie down strap holding up the back of the engine was sort of in the way. So, mine might be exactly the same as yours. |
Use a dial caliper, measure the overall thicknes, then the groove, and subtract. Quite accurate.
Here's a thought.. you've been told that the PP you have and the TO bearing are designed to work together. But what if you don't have the parts you think you have? If something is the wrong part but labeled as the right one you could be running around in circles forever.
Posted by: skline Mar 24 2005, 08:33 PM
I cant help any, I have the setup that Renegade talked about. The kevlar disk with the Stage II. I had to remove the washer to get the clearance I needed. Otherwise it would hit on the PP. It works good now.
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 24 2005, 08:36 PM
| QUOTE (bondo @ Mar 24 2005, 08:28 PM) |
| Here's a thought.. you've been told that the PP you have and the TO bearing are designed to work together. But what if you don't have the parts you think you have? If something is the wrong part but labeled as the right one you could be running around in circles forever. |
possible with the p plate, but the TO bearing is a very unique 2 piece unit and there is no other one anything like it out there, as far as I know.
Posted by: 914GT Mar 24 2005, 09:39 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Mar 24 2005, 06:50 PM) |
| Guy, were you able to get free play by bending too? |
Yes, I have adequate free play after careful bending and some trial and error mating the transaxle up to the adapter plate a couple times. I also did not have the pilot bearing quite deep enough into the crank which was causing some interference somewhere and not allowing the bellhousing to come up tight. I used my shop press to carefully bend the fork just a little at a time. It does not take much to make a big difference.
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 24 2005, 09:48 PM
Did you have to bend it up pretty close to the fork? When fooling around with this mess, I tried to bend a fork, and was having trouble getting the bend up close to the fork where it seemed to need to be.
Posted by: 914GT Mar 24 2005, 10:40 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Mar 24 2005, 08:48 PM) |
| Did you have to bend it up pretty close to the fork? When fooling around with this mess, I tried to bend a fork, and was having trouble getting the bend up close to the fork where it seemed to need to be. |
No, I think it was in the middle near the pivot point. I'd put the fork in the press with each end on a plate, then bring the press down slowly where I wanted it to bend.
Posted by: mrihop Mar 24 2005, 11:20 PM
Wow! I just bolted my clutch and stage II pressure plate I got from Renegade, put in a new throwout bearing, stuck the tranny on, and stuffed the engine assembly in and drove off!
The clutch works great, grabs good, and is the last of my worries when it comes to things breaking. I'm sure I'll destroy the 914 tranny before I have clutch issues. I've done plenty of driving in traffic and my left foot only gets tired after hours of traffic!
I've been told by a few people that stage III will push the pivot ball into the trans, then you readjust your clutch linkage (need to push that clutch farther in), then it pushes the pivot ball back more, and you keep repeating the process until the pivot ball just pops into the tranny!
I just looked at your other project thread, and you're using Renegade's old adaptor plate. They have a new billet plate that's a lot stronger and you may look into getting one.
If you want to continue using your Stage III PP, let us know of your success or issues!
Posted by: 914GT Mar 25 2005, 08:38 AM
| QUOTE (mrihop @ Mar 24 2005, 10:20 PM) |
| I've been told by a few people that stage III will push the pivot ball into the trans, then you readjust your clutch linkage (need to push that clutch farther in), then it pushes the pivot ball back more, and you keep repeating the process until the pivot ball just pops into the tranny! |
If this is true, there's no mention of it in the KEP instructions which come with the stage III clutch. Perhaps another 'urban myth' about 914 V8 conversions. After a year of driving I've had zero problems with mine, and no clutch adjustments.
By the way ... I'd think the plastic pivot bushing inside the fork would fail before the transaxle case failed.
Posted by: sean_v8_914 Mar 25 2005, 09:00 AM
there are so many V8 myths out there. Many of them keep people away from the conversion. I run a stage 3 with the skinny kevlar 9". no shim under teh ball bushing. no bend in teh fork. I did break one of theose cable pivot things that hold the cable in the fork. I think this set up is evil in SD traffic. it is too heavy for daily driving unless you want one calf bigger than the other. does anyone have a hydrolic pedal set up for sale?
thread high-jack...
Hows the new blue, I mean red conversion comming along?
Posted by: 914GT Mar 25 2005, 09:38 AM
| QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Mar 25 2005, 08:00 AM) |
| thread high-jack... Hows the new blue, I mean red conversion comming along? |
I'll post a couple more pictures over on the 'new V8' thread
Posted by: joea9146 Mar 25 2005, 09:40 AM
Something that was mentioned earlier and this is important. Is remove the Nuts and Studs on the
Tube on the front of the transmission and replace them with Bolts. Grind the tops of the bolts down a little for extra safety. And also remove the Spacer from under the pivot ball. Once this is done and if it still does not work I would than look at sending it back to KEP for there evaluation.
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 25 2005, 11:45 AM
As far as the Stage III popping the pivot ball out of the trans, Dave at KEP said that was absolutely news to him, and he was unaware of that ever actually having happened. 
I did get KEP's shorter headed bolts for the throw out tube, and clearance in that direction doesn't seem to be a problem.
Ya know Sean, it's funny you mention the effort required for the Stage III. During my 96 different attempts to solve this problem, I have pushed that damn clutch in a couple hundred times, and the thing that struck me was that it didn't seem any stiffer than the Stage II I took out.
I guess I'm just going to have to ship this bad boy back to KEP and have them check it out. I mic'ed the p plate friction disk thickness, and I was going to call KEP and check the correct dimensions, but I'm thinking I may just send it and let them make sure it is right. There goes another couple weeks until I get to drive my baby I guess. 
As always, you guys RAWK!!! Thanks for all the input.
Posted by: bondo Mar 25 2005, 11:59 AM
Good luck, I hope it all works out.
Was the stage II slipping? I'm still trying to decide if I need to go to stage III. It'll be a daily driver, so the less pedal effort the better. If there's not much difference in pedal effort maybe I'll just go stage III. I'm getting real close to needing the flywheel/clutch. 
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 25 2005, 01:10 PM
My Stage II did slip like crazy, but I think it was due to not quite being set up right. If I loosened the cable a turn or so, it slipped much less, but would grind too much for my liking putting it into reverse. According to Dave at KEP yesterday, once a kevlar disk slips really good, it gets glazed and is toast. The kevlar disk I took out was in fact very glazed. In retrospect, I don't think the slipping had anything to do with the holding power of the clutch. I replaced my press plate because it was really warped, probably from slipping more than I knew. I only went with a Stage III on the new one because my car dynos at just over 400hp at the rear wheels, so the 1st guy I talked to at KEP said go with the III. Scott at Renegade told me yesterday he has never had anything but a Stage II in his car Peel, and has never had a problem. I think Peel is sporting right around 500 HP, and he said he has killed many a 901, but never had trouble with a Stage II p plate. Renegade strongly recommends the kevlar disks though. If there is a problem with the plate I am sending back, I will probably have KEP send me a II instead of a III.
Posted by: bondo Mar 25 2005, 01:18 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Mar 25 2005, 12:10 PM) |
| My Stage II did slip like crazy, but I think it was due to not quite being set up right. If I loosened the cable a turn or so, it slipped much less, but would grind too much for my liking putting it into reverse. According to Dave at KEP yesterday, once a kevlar disk slips really good, it gets glazed and is toast. The kevlar disk I took out was in fact very glazed. In retrospect, I don't think the slipping had anything to do with the holding power of the clutch. I replaced my press plate because it was really warped, probably from slipping more than I knew. I only went with a Stage III on the new one because my car dynos at just over 400hp at the rear wheels, so the 1st guy I talked to at KEP said go with the III. Scott at Renegade told me yesterday he has never had anything but a Stage II in his car Peel, and has never had a problem. I think Peel is sporting right around 500 HP, and he said he has killed many a 901, but never had trouble with a Stage II p plate. Renegade strongly recommends the kevlar disks though. If there is a problem with the plate I am sending back, I will probably have KEP send me a II instead of a III. |
I won't be going kevlar, Brad talked me out of that. I guess I'll go stage II, only 275-300 HP for me.
What you say about having to choose between slipping or grinding makes me wonder if whatever is caused that may still be present and causing your current problems.. Did you identify a clear cause of the problems with the stage II? Did it have that problem when it was new, or was it just warpage related?
Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Mar 25 2005, 02:14 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Mar 25 2005, 02:10 PM) |
| I only went with a Stage III on the new one because my car dynos at just over 400hp at the rear wheels, so the 1st guy I talked to at KEP said go with the III. |
How much travel are you getting at the clutch throw out arm? For testing put a small wire ty-wrap at the clutch cable and push in the clutch and measure the travel by how far the ty-wrap moves. On some of the older V8 conversion clutches you needed to add a extender to the clutch cable arm at the pedal cluster to get enough travel to release the clutch. Kennedy will be able to tell you how much travel it takes to fully release there clutch. The clutch arm is a 5 to 1 ratio so if you get 1.25" travel at the cable the clutch will disengage .25" at the pressure plate.
When did you dyno your car and get over 400HP at the rear wheels? Thats alot of power for a mild SBC
Attached image(s)
Posted by: aircooledboy Mar 25 2005, 04:55 PM
I always wondered how you were supposed to measure the amount of travel they were talking about. 
That is a great idea and I will use that to verify my travel when the plate comes back. I am pretty sure I had plenty, but I will make sure. I just gave the plate to UPS about an hour ago.
As far as the hp, John put it on the dyno to fine tune things, and I'm pretty sure the number they came up with was like 412ish.
Posted by: mrihop Mar 25 2005, 05:05 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Mar 25 2005, 11:10 AM) |
| According to Dave at KEP yesterday, once a kevlar disk slips really good, it gets glazed and is toast. |
Right! Once glazed, the clutch will slip like crazy. However, if the kevlar clutch is broken in, about 500 nice and easy shifts up and down before driving hard, it should last for a long time.
It's the same reason you should sand your rotors down, if you're not having them turned, to eliminate the same kind of glaze, and new pads will be able to grab on!
Posted by: rich brennick Mar 25 2005, 05:24 PM
Sorry I'm late...
Mine was easy, too.
Sounds like it's too thick in there- somewhere or the sum of all.
My left leg is bigger than my right.
Hope it all works out, Chris.
Rich
Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 8 2005, 12:22 PM
Hmmmmm......
Talked to KEP yesterday. They are telling me there might have been a problem with my plate, but they are not positive, so they are going build me another one. Since they need to do that, I am going back to the stage II. That was what I had before, and it worked, so I am going back to it in an effort to remove some variables from the problem.
KEP is standing up on this, so for that I am happy, but over all I'm a little pissed. The car has been holding down my wheel ramps for nearly a couple months now because of this, I've paid shipping on this thing twice now, they can't even tell me if the plate was the problem, I had to call them repeatedly to find out what was going on, despite the fact that I was assured this would be a priority when I shipped it back to them 2 weeks ago yesterday they told me they thought it would get built today, and they're shipping it standard UPS instead of next day like they promised when they asked me to send it back, so it won't even get her until then end of next week at the earliest. 
Wheeeeeew,(deeep breath). I feel better now.
Posted by: neo914-6 Apr 8 2005, 06:00 PM
Hmmm, the stage III plate I just received looks slightly used... 
Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 9 2005, 08:40 AM
You're kiddin'
Does the friction surface look a little brownish-blue? I had intentionally slipped the clutch for several seconds at one point to try to knock off anything on the various surfaces that might be hanging things up. It discolored the friction ring on the p plate slightly from the shiney chrome look it had when I took it out of the box.
On the up side, the plate I sent back had no miles and about 10 min.s of running time on it. 
Posted by: neo914-6 Apr 9 2005, 10:56 AM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Apr 9 2005, 06:40 AM) |
| You're kiddin' Does the friction surface look a little brownish-blue? I had intentionally slipped the clutch for several seconds at one point to try to knock off anything on the various surfaces that might be hanging things up. It discolored the friction ring on the p plate slightly from the shiney chrome look it had when I took it out of the box. On the up side, the plate I sent back had no miles and about 10 min.s of running time on it. |
Yeah but my fingers are crossed
I also got their pilot shaft bearing. I don't remember needing a large machined shim on it, see below.
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Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 9 2005, 06:07 PM
That is exactly what my pilot bearing looks like. Renegades bearing is better made (i.e. all steel instead of the aluminum collar), but Kennedy's is about 1/2 the price, which is why I chose that one too. CSOB's RULE!!!! 
Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 12 2005, 01:46 PM
Wife just called, new plate just arrived. 
Initiating emergency plan Alpha: Jetison Afternoon Client's-Only For Fun (JAC-OFF)
Details & film at 10:00. 
Posted by: neo914-6 Apr 12 2005, 01:52 PM
Chris,
Did you get Stage II or III?
Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 12 2005, 01:53 PM
Dos
Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 13 2005, 10:56 AM
Brief update: We have lift off!! Driving it today.
I'll fill in details & pics later, but the Stage II went in with out a hitch, and I'm driving it today. I made a few mods to improve things, one with worked prefectly, and one that was a complete waste of time. New trans gears & ratios are incredible. Feels like a new car. 
Felix, no need to worry whether you got my used plate because I still have it. 
They re-used the top part of the Stage III I sent back. I can tell by the paint scrapes around the bolt holes that this is the same "cover." You can even still see the "3" under the newly stamped "2" where it now says "Stage 2"
Posted by: neo914-6 Apr 13 2005, 04:39 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Apr 13 2005, 08:56 AM) |
| Brief update: We have lift off!! Driving it today. I'll fill in details & pics later, but the Stage II went in with out a hitch, and I'm driving it today. I made a few mods to improve things, one with worked prefectly, and one that was a complete waste of time. New trans gears & ratios are incredible. Feels like a new car. Felix, no need to worry whether you got my used plate because I still have it. They re-used the top part of the Stage III I sent back. I can tell by the paint scrapes around the bolt holes that this is the same "cover." You can even still see the "3" under the newly stamped "2" where it now says "Stage 2" |
Was kidding on the used plate.
What was the mod that was a waste of time?
Glad it worked for you, hope mine does too...I may not have time to install my big axles.
BTW, What was the root cause of the original problem?
. Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 14 2005, 12:53 PM
Allrighty then, here we go. Starting out, I could have sworn one of these cars was black, but with all the dust from sitting for 5 months, it is hard to tell which is which
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Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 14 2005, 01:01 PM
1st thing I did was notch the trans housing a little bit. I saw that the clutch arm was hitting the housing before the throw out was bottoming out on the bolts holding the throw out tube. Wanting to be sure I would have maximum travel, you gotta make a notch there, right? WRONG.
This was the waste of time part. When you mate the trans to the engine, the pressure plate actually contacts the arm, and pushes it back away from the opening anyway. The notch didn't change squat. The only way you could utilize the maximum throw would be to bend the arm, but that would require a pretty complex compound bend, first forward to clear the press plate, then back further down the fork shaft or you would lose forward travel. So, DON'T DO THIS.
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Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 14 2005, 01:07 PM
I decided that rather than try to bend the arm, I would grind it some where the arm hit the pressure plate, giving me a little more room. With my old Stage II, if I tried to adjust the clutch so that I had free play, the clutch arm would rattle. I always thought it was from the arm vibrating against the opening in the bell housing, but when I pulled it apart, I found it was really the arm touching the pressure plate and "bouncing" on the humps in the plate. So, I took a new arm (donated by Brad Meyuer, THANKS BRAD ) and ground a groove in it to give me a little more clearance breathing room.
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Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 14 2005, 01:09 PM
Looks deeper than it really is laying flat. As you can see here, it is just about 1/8", but it worked like a charm. Allowed me to adjust the clutch to have free play, but still shift smoothly into reverse.
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Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 14 2005, 01:15 PM
What was wrong with the Stage III you ask? Idunno
Kennedy said it "might" have been defective. Were they being honest or just covering their ass? Idunno. Renegade says you can't make the Stage III and Sachs disk work. Kennedy says you can. 
What I do know is this set up kicks wild booty.
Here you can see my Stage 3, make that Stage 2 plate. Didn't photograph real great, but you can clearly make out the "3" under the "2" if you are holding it in your hand.
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Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 14 2005, 01:26 PM
See, there was a Black car under all that dust. Here she is after a 10 minute "man I'm tired, and it's late, but I'm driving this thing in the morning and I ain't driving it this dirty" car wash.
I cannot say enough about how great this rascal is to drive now. Between the new clutch and the new gear ratios, ("H" gear in particular), it is what I think we are all looking for when we do an SBC.
I gotta get used to how strong the old boy is now though. Heading out to lunch this afternoon, I stepped on it a bit to make a left turn from a stop to fit through a small opening in on coming traffic, and did a perfect 90' Bat turn, right in front of the Courthouse. Proly not a great habit, but it was fuhn, hehehehe.
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Posted by: bondo Apr 14 2005, 02:16 PM
Sweet! Glad it's fixed! No slippage? (at the clutch that is)
Posted by: aircooledboy Apr 14 2005, 06:09 PM
| QUOTE (bondo @ Apr 14 2005, 02:16 PM) |
| Sweet! Glad it's fixed! No slippage? (at the clutch that is) |
NONE, zip, zero, zilch.
There is a comically steep hill not far from the Midwest NARP complex, and I could break my old clutch loose on it without much effort. Today, in 4th gear, up hill at 60, I was able to make the back tires chirp
.
Posted by: bondo Apr 14 2005, 06:13 PM
| QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Apr 14 2005, 05:09 PM) | ||
NONE, zip, zero, zilch. There is a comically steep hill not far from the Midwest NAPR complex, and I could break my old clutch loose on it without much effort. Today, in 4th gear, up hill at 60, I was able to make the back tires chirp . |
Oh man.. I can't wait till mine's done.. new target for completion.. WCC 06 (is there a date set yet?)
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