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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Having parts re-plated
Posted by: Doug Leggins Mar 25 2005, 08:43 AM
I think that I'm going to get some parts re-plated. I want to have the door latch posts plated. But, while I'm getting these done what else can i get plated.... 
I've gathered a group of parts that i want to take to a plater to quote. I've never had anything plated before so not much of an idea what to expect for capability and cost.
What was the original yellow plating- yellow cadmium?
Any idea on plating costs?
Any thing to be concerned about when having parts re-plated?
Here is a pic of the group of parts that I've gathered so far.
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Posted by: Headrage Mar 25 2005, 08:45 AM
I seem to remember one of the guys here having all the hardware re-plated a few months ago. I believe it was zinc. Maybe 914 RS.
Posted by: Gint Mar 25 2005, 09:02 AM
I should be right behind you Doug. Go man go!
Anybody? I have the same questions.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Mar 25 2005, 09:09 AM
Hi Doug,
The correct name is Yellow Di-Chromate on all the parts in the picture. The two door striker plates should be Zinc Plated. I can't make out most of the parts, but looks like you have everything. Don't forget clips/nuts/bolts/washers, etc. When I did mine I took about 100#'s of stuff and sorted out the good from the bad. They usually scrub the parts then through a parts washer, then plated w/Yellow Di-Chromate. . Price was the same for 10# or 100#. Got mine done in Dearborn, MI (ourt of business now) by Biker Guys who looked scary. Turned out to be nice guys, just their looks were scary. You know Biker & 914's are transportation. Hope this helps. If you need Anodizing, contact me PM & I will give you a good local source (high quality & reasonable).
Tom
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 25 2005, 09:11 AM
The original is yellow cad. Hard to find a cad plater.
Yellow zinc (Zinc DiChromate) is the way to go. It's nearly indistinguishable.
A batch like that should run you around $40.00-$100.00 depending. Most platers are "industrial" platers and they'll be busy all day long plating computer parts etc. Your order will be either viewed as a nuisance or extra cash. Offer them "cash". Most platers do clear (silver) and yellow (gold). Gather as much as you can and do it in one batch. You'll "usually" get an eyeball flat rate. The minute you get back from dropping everything off at the platers you'll find another piece that should have gone... just start another batch
There are a couple of ways to get your pieces clean; 1) Acid. Make sure there's no plastic parts in there. I did that with a 911 front latch. When I got it back it was in pieces. It turns out the post collar was plastic. If they use the acid dip properly (just to remove the previous plating and 914 gunk) your parts will come back looking like new. 2) Sand or glass bead blasting. If you do that on "finished metal" (latches etc...) you can scuff them and pit them, be careful what grade glass they or you use.
Good luck. 
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Mar 25 2005, 09:14 AM
Me again,
Decided to give you guys my local source for Anodizing. They do it all for the car people. Hopefully their web site comes through. I know they ship UPS etc. Some of the stuff I had done turned out better than factory. Example the sail pcs. I had a number of them polished & anodized. Kept the best ones & sold the others. Make money on the deal over & above my investment.
Tom
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Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Mar 25 2005, 09:15 AM
another
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Posted by: davep Mar 25 2005, 09:16 AM
If you want original plating, then you need to sort the silver from the yellow. Some of your parts there were just painted black. Other pieces, like the rear trunk lock (on the body) were not plated, just polished. You might PM Eric Shea, he is getting both silver and yellow done on the calipers on a regular basis.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 25 2005, 09:18 AM
Gint,
Gather what you have and bring it over when you come to get your rusty-ass, piece-o-shit tub. I'll have it plated and send it back to you. Takes about a week to fit it in their schedule. 
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Mar 25 2005, 09:22 AM
Again,
A lot of this is starting to come back to me. I used the 914 Porsche Parts book to get the proper plating. I sorted the part by finish and into a pail for plating for the correct finish. Good advise by the guys to clean as much as possible. The biker guys who did mine took extra care with my parts, so I was lucky. Remember, whoever does the work are being paid low wages & don't give a dam.
Tom
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Mar 25 2005, 09:28 AM
I am in a generous mood today. Here's my secrete Powder Coater. www.exoticcoatings.com in Romulus, MI (734) 595-4674 I grew up with the owners Dad & get special treatment with these guys. If you talk to Joe (owner) give him my name & he will treat you special or jack the price up. They do fanastic work & can color match your exterior paint color.
Tom
Posted by: Doug Leggins Mar 25 2005, 09:38 AM
Should I be concerned about hydrogen embrittlement? I don't have many bolts in the lot because I didn't want to risk weakening any fasteners.
Posted by: Gint Mar 25 2005, 09:45 AM
| QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Mar 25 2005, 08:18 AM) |
| Gint, Gather what you have and bring it over when you come to get your rusty-ass, piece-o-shit tub. I'll have it plated and send it back to you. Takes about a week to fit it in their schedule. |
Works for me. I'm in no rush though. The sorting of parts to be plated won't happen until the tub is back. I'll ship 'em out when I'm ready. Does you place do the cleaning also or do I need to do that?
Local CW guy, Rex (we call him Mr. Q-tip), said the local plater's quality went south some time back.
I'm gonna have to go ou tto the shed this weekend and dig out the other trunk hinge bolt. I can't find the one I placed "somewhere that I could find it".
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 25 2005, 09:55 AM
| QUOTE |
| Should I be concerned about hydrogen embrittlement? |
Is the Pope Catholic?
For sure, for sure... you didn't do any welding on that car did you?? 
Hydrogen Embrittlement is a type of deterioration which can be linked to corrosion and corrosion-control processes. It involves the ingress of hydrogen into a component, an event that can seriously reduce the ductility and load-bearing capacity, cause cracking and catastrophic brittle failures at stresses below the yield stress of susceptible materials. Hydrogen embrittlement occurs in a number of forms but the common features are an applied tensile stress and hydrogen dissolved in the metal. Examples of hydrogen embrittlement are cracking of weldments or hardened steels when exposed to conditions which inject hydrogen into the component. Presently this phenomenon is not completely understood and hydrogen embrittlement detection, in particular, seems to be one of the most difficult aspects of the problem. Hydrogen embrittlement does not affect all metallic materials equally. The most vulnerable are high-strength steels, titanium alloys and aluminum alloys.
Sources of hydrogen causing embrittlement have been encountered in the making of steel, in processing parts, in welding, in storage or containment of hydrogen gas, and related to hydrogen as a contaminant in the environment that is often a by-product of general corrosion. It is the latter that concerns the nuclear industry. Hydrogen may be produced by corrosion reactions such as rusting, cathodic protection, and electroplating. Hydrogen may also be added to reactor coolant to remove oxygen from reactor coolant systems. Hydrogen entry, the obvious pre-requisite of embrittlement, can be facilitated in a number of ways summarized below: (Defence Standard 03-30, October 2000)
a. by some manufacturing operations such as welding, electroplating, phosphating and pickling; if a material subject to such operations is susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement then a final, baking heat treatment to expel any hydrogen is employed
b. as a by-product of a corrosion reaction such as in circumstances when the hydrogen production reaction (Equation 2) acts as the cathodic reaction since some of the hydrogen produced may enter the metal in atomic form rather than be all evolved as a gas into the surrounding environment. In this situation, cracking failures can often be thought of as a type of stress corrosion cracking. If the presence of hydrogen sulfide causes entry of hydrogen into the component, the cracking phenomenon is often termed “sulphide stress cracking (SSC)”
c. the use of cathodic protection for corrosion protection if the process is not properly controlled.
Hydrogen diffuses along the grain boundaries and combines with the carbon, which is alloyed with the iron, to form methane gas. The methane gas is not mobile and collects in small voids along the grain boundaries where it builds up enormous pressures that initiate cracks. Hydrogen embrittlement is a primary reason that the reactor coolant is maintained at a neutral or basic pH in plants without aluminum components.
If the metal is under a high tensile stress, brittle failure can occur. At normal room temperatures, the hydrogen atoms are absorbed into the metal lattice and diffused through the grains, tending to gather at inclusions or other lattice defects. If stress induces cracking under these conditions, the path is transgranular. At high temperatures, the absorbed hydrogen tends to gather in the grain boundaries and stress-induced cracking is then intergranular. The cracking of martensitic and precipitation hardened steel alloys is believed to be a form of hydrogen stress corrosion cracking that results from the entry into the metal of a portion of the atomic hydrogen that is produced in the following corrosion reaction.
Hydrogen embrittlement is not a permanent condition. If cracking does not occur and the environmental conditions are changed so that no hydrogen is generated on the surface of the metal, the hydrogen can rediffuse from the steel, so that ductility is restored.
To address the problem of hydrogen embrittlement, emphasis is placed on controlling the amount of residual hydrogen in steel, controlling the amount of hydrogen pickup in processing, developing alloys with improved resistance to hydrogen embrittlement, developing low or no embrittlement plating or coating processes, and restricting the amount of in-situ (in position) hydrogen introduced during the service life of a part.
Meaning... you better get all new parts from Germany.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 25 2005, 09:59 AM
I'm being silly of course. I think the 400 degree temps in the plating process will hardly make your teener bolts snap in two. They don't even effect rubber caliper seals. Might be more of a concern if it were nuclear powered though.
Posted by: maf914 Mar 25 2005, 10:16 AM
| QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Mar 25 2005, 07:59 AM) |
| Might be more of a concern if it were nuclear powered though. |
Everyone knows you can't nuke a 914!
Okay, okay...someone had to say it!
Posted by: boxstr Mar 25 2005, 11:27 AM
For those of you interested in CAD Plating. I have found a gentleman here in Oregon, Mollala to be exact, who doe's "only" CAD plating. He doe's plating for Columbia Helicopters and for other aircraft related companies and rebuilders.
I took a box full of misc hinges,latches,nuts,bolts and etc to him and said let me know when done.
I came back a month later, and everthing was in sealed plastic bags, it looked like jewelry. My mouth dropped open and I was in shock when he told me it was only going to cost me $80.00 for everything. It was Christmas in Feburary.
He is a very small shop so he only does small jobs. Its a good thing.
CCLINPLATEME
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Posted by: Britain Smith Mar 25 2005, 11:34 AM
I had all of this stuff done in yellow zinc at a local place that does awesome work. I simply dropped off a box of dirty, rusty, greasy parts and they cleaned them, acid diped them, sandblasted them, and then plated them with yellow zinc. Cad plating is very harmful to the environment and is a precious metal and therefore most places won't do it. My guy would do cad plating, but I chose to go with gold zinc. Also, all my parts where baked for hydrogen embrittlement. I know some people who had plating done and didn't get it baked for HE...when they went to torque down the bolts, the heads starting snapping off. It is a serious issue that many people overlook.
-Britain
Posted by: Doug Leggins Mar 25 2005, 11:47 AM
Fantastic looking parts!!! 
Thanks!
I'm going to gather a few more parts and then I'm off to indy to find a plater. I've talked to a couple of places that do car restoration stuff. Hopefully one of them has reasonable prices.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 25 2005, 11:54 AM
My mouth would have dropped open to
CCLIPAIDTOOMUCH.COM
Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 25 2005, 11:55 AM
| QUOTE |
| My mouth dropped open and I was in shock when he told me it was only going to cost me $80.00 for everything. It was Christmas in Feburary. He is a very small shop so he only does small jobs. Its a good thing. |
That is a good deal up here Wash. by paine Field near the Boeing plant, the platers charge big bucks for CAD plate thanks EPA. Your guy must do a lot of Government work or grand father clause or something, Thats a great Source.
Yellow Zinc is the norm. for most, economically.
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Mar 25 2005, 12:07 PM
I love you CW guys. We put the Bling, Bling into our 914's. I wouldn't worry about hydrogen/carbon embrittlement on the cosmetic items being plated. I would worry about some of the grade-8 bolts used to support weight and stress items. Buy them new & don't worry. You guys have gotten some excellent plating sources so support them.
Here's an old picture showing some of those Bling, Bling, plated pcs. This one should make Gint/Bxstr/Doug/Qarl/Eric/Britain weep with excitement.
Tom
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Posted by: boxstr Mar 25 2005, 12:31 PM
Eric ,Compared to what I have paid for Chrome plating this was a bargain. I really don't have any other source to compare it to, because there aren't any here in the Portland area, and I don't think I am gong to pay shipping to send it out of state, and then the suprise of having it lost in shipping. Thanks but I will stick close to home.
CCLINIMHAPPY
Posted by: Gint Mar 25 2005, 05:31 PM
| QUOTE (Thomas J Bliznik @ Mar 25 2005, 11:07 AM) |
| I love you CW guys. We put the Bling, Bling into our 914's. I wouldn't worry about hydrogen/carbon embrittlement on the cosmetic items being plated. I would worry about some of the grade-8 bolts used to support weight and stress items. Buy them new & don't worry. You guys have gotten some excellent plating sources so support them. Here's an old picture showing some of those Bling, Bling, plated pcs. This one should make Gint/Bxstr/Doug/Qarl/Eric/Britain weep with excitement. Tom |
I've drooled over pics of your car more than once Tom.
You may not remember, but you sent me pics of your car via email years ago.I need to find a smiley with a drool bucket.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 25 2005, 05:38 PM
ESSINIWASJUSTKIDDINGTHATSAGOODPRICEFORCAD.COM
Tom... I'm moist. (now go poke out your minds eye) 
Beautiful
Posted by: redshift Mar 25 2005, 05:54 PM
I'll never have another nice one.. damn.
M
Posted by: rich brennick Mar 25 2005, 06:19 PM
Don't forget to document every piece of hardware that you give them.
Just got some yellow parts back with some missing fasteners that "they" can't find. It's only for a VW diesel, though.
I am promised a deal on the next batch.
Rich
Posted by: Doug Leggins Mar 25 2005, 06:26 PM
Parts are at the plater! I added some to the batch and removed a couple of brackets to paint instead.
I dropped off a total of 75 pcs. Quote was a little high at $225. But i didn't want to drive around indy anymore. I have a love/hate relationship with the inner city. I hate it when I'm there and love it when i leave .
I should get the parts back in about 3 weeks. 
I hate waiting!
Tom - Your car looks terrific!!!
Posted by: Britain Smith Mar 25 2005, 06:57 PM
That sounds about right, mine was $200 for the parts that I posted in the picture earlier in this thread.
-Britain
Posted by: boxstr Mar 25 2005, 09:49 PM
These are just back from the plater, and don't ask the cost.
CCLINBUMPERCAR
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Posted by: Qarl Mar 25 2005, 10:18 PM
You have some funky blue and gray stains on the front of those bumpers!
Posted by: boxstr Mar 25 2005, 10:36 PM
No problem it wipes off easily.
CCLINSTAINAWAY
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Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 26 2005, 01:28 PM
I can see up your shirt. How much did "that" cost ya?
ESSINSORRYICOULDNTRESIST
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Mar 26 2005, 01:47 PM
Craig
Beautiful bumpers. Can't wait to see them on the car. You did good.
My guess on cost, about $600 bucks each to chrome plate & add the original cost of the core bumpers for another $300 bucks (total approx. = one $big one per bumper) Better not tell the wife.
Tom
Posted by: boxstr Mar 26 2005, 05:53 PM
Tom and Eric I will tell you right here, the receipts read $510 on one and $630 on the other. More repair need on the rear than the front. That is spendy, but I expect that from Oregon Plating. They do extremely good work and you can not find any thing to fault them.
The one bumper was actually dipped five times and John had to trim the edges of extra material to get them looking clean and straight.
CCLINTHEBUMPERKING
Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 26 2005, 07:19 PM
Plating and chrome specifically can be like that. You can get the "average" job and then you can get what you have there... Prices vary wildly.
Little funny: I was looking to have my brass trim rings chromed on my H1's (for the 911). Troy turned me on to this guy who's in Southern Utah. He met me at an exit off I-15 to look at the job. He said "I can do it. It will be 11 months and $800.00 a P-I-E-C-E!" When I recovered from the shock I was able to look at his work. It was absolute perfection.
It might be something for a museum piece but it wasn't for me. I got a decent chrome job that probably more closely matches the factory.
Just shows ta go ya that prices and quality are all over the map.
They look good CCL. Find Jim and early bumper for his ride.
Posted by: boxstr Mar 26 2005, 09:58 PM
Eric, Jim Already came out to CAMP and got the early rear bumper. I told him he had better get it replated correctly to go with the rest of that great looking six.
CCLINCHROMEPLATE
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