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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ hot start issue
Posted by: cooper951 Mar 21 2016, 07:34 AM
I've had recurring issues with the hot start problem. I had the starter rebuilt with a new solenoid, and I installed the Bosch hot start relay. So far so good. But is there a way to start the car if it happens to me 50 miles from home besides push start? I tried jumping the battery connection on the solenoid to the starter with the ignition "ON" and I could hear the starter "whrrr" but it never engaged into the flywheel. TIA
Posted by: zambezi Mar 21 2016, 09:29 AM
whats the condition of the ignition switch? They tend to crack and will be intermittent on the start circuit.
Posted by: cooper951 Mar 21 2016, 09:35 AM
whats the condition of the ignition switch? They tend to crack and will be intermittent on the start circuit.
Haven't checked. It seems like that would be the more difficult project of the bunch, so I've been putting it off.
Posted by: jvmarino Mar 21 2016, 10:31 AM
If your starter is good, all you need to do is grab a screwdriver and jump the battery connection on starter to the small tab on the starter that is connected to ignition switch input. Worked for me many times before I resolved my issue.
I now have a hot start relay installed, and also replaced the ground strap on the transmission.
Jim
Posted by: BeatNavy Mar 21 2016, 10:42 AM
whats the condition of the ignition switch? They tend to crack and will be intermittent on the start circuit.
Haven't checked. It seems like that would be the more difficult project of the bunch, so I've been putting it off.
Replacing the ignition switch is not too bad. This tech article at the Bird is pretty good: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_ignition_switch/914_ignition_switch.htm
But what's your actual question? If it's "what other options are there to start car" if starter doesn't work, then as far as I know you pretty much can a) push start it, or b) park on a hill (which is the same thing really). If the issue is electrical (e.g., poor ground connection at tranny) then some sort of boost MAY help give it the extra potential to overcome the resistance (e.g., jump from another car or a battery charger). If the solenoid is bad you can try the screwdriver trick to jump the starter (very carefully).
As an aside, someone's always got a story of how long they drove their first car with a bad starter and simply relied on parking on a hill every time.
Posted by: cooper951 Mar 21 2016, 11:09 AM
If your starter is good, all you need to do is grab a screwdriver and jump the battery connection on starter to the small tab on the starter that is connected to ignition switch input. Worked for me many times before I resolved my issue.
I now have a hot start relay installed, and also replaced the ground strap on the transmission.
Jim
That's what I suspected. Thanks.
Posted by: cooper951 Mar 21 2016, 11:12 AM
whats the condition of the ignition switch? They tend to crack and will be intermittent on the start circuit.
Haven't checked. It seems like that would be the more difficult project of the bunch, so I've been putting it off.
Replacing the ignition switch is not too bad. This tech article at the Bird is pretty good: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_ignition_switch/914_ignition_switch.htm
But what's your actual question? If it's "what other options are there to start car" if starter doesn't work, then as far as I know you pretty much can a) push start it, or b) park on a hill (which is the same thing really). If the issue is electrical (e.g., poor ground connection at tranny) then some sort of boost MAY help give it the extra potential to overcome the resistance (e.g., jump from another car or a battery charger). If the solenoid is bad you can try the screwdriver trick to jump the starter (very carefully).
As an aside, someone's always got a story of how long they drove their first car with a bad starter and simply relied on parking on a hill every time.
Thanks. I used to have a '53 International pickup that I had to park on a hill all the time. I've checked the ground at the tranny, and it is quite sound. Not expecting any more problems, but with a 42 year old car, you learn to "expect the unexpected."
Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 21 2016, 11:15 AM
So you put the bosch relay in and you're still have a hot start issue? 
I'd almost give you the money to try a Ford solenoid.
But, then if you are shorting the starter correctly it should engage.
Does it whir or just click when you have the issue?
Grounds are always the first thing you check.
Posted by: cooper951 Mar 21 2016, 11:25 AM
So you put the bosch relay in and you're still have a hot start issue?
I'd almost give you the money to try a Ford solenoid.
But, then if you are shorting the starter correctly it should engage.
Does it whir or just click when you have the issue?
Grounds are always the first thing you check.
Not having the problem since installing the relay. Just looking down the road...so to speak.
Posted by: jimkelly Mar 21 2016, 11:28 AM
i thought hot start had to due with hot gasoline and fuel pump being in engine bay.
that aside, i put a bosch relay near my starter, one problem i have is from driving in bad weather, is corrosion on the terminals.
i've installed a wire from battery to a momentary switch and the end terminal is near starter, and when my car won't start, i pull the ignition wire to starter and install the wire from my half assed momentary switch and it starts fine. meaning the starter turned engine and car starts. i should wire this switch to my dash as an always available back up.
when my wires are wet and corroded, starter does not turn at all. i hate rainy salty days : (
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Posted by: BeatNavy Mar 21 2016, 11:36 AM
i thought hot start had to due with hot gasoline and fuel pump being in engine bay.
Hey Jim, that's vapor lock
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 21 2016, 11:55 AM
i thought hot start had to due with hot gasoline and fuel pump being in engine bay.
that aside, i put a bosch relay near my starter, one problem i have is from driving in bad weather, is corrosion on the terminals.
i've installed a wire from battery to a momentary switch and the end terminal is near starter, and when my car won't start, i pull the ignition wire to starter and install the wire from my half assed momentary switch and it starts fine. meaning the starter turned engine and car starts. i should wire this switch to my dash as an always available back up.
when my wires are wet and corroded, starter does not turn at all. i hate rainy salty days : (
All you have to do to get the engine to crank is to hook a wire from the battery to one of the rear two pins on the 4 pin connector that is located on the right rear of the relay board. Both those connectors go straight to the starter solenoid.
Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 21 2016, 12:15 PM
that aside, i put a bosch relay near my starter, one problem i have is from driving in bad weather, is corrosion on the terminals.....
when my wires are wet and corroded, starter does not turn at all. i hate rainy salty days : (
Jim,
I'm a Ford solenoid fanboy, one reason is because it's waterproof, only one that has failed on me is one that the metal back rusted through.
If you are going to use the bosch relay, mount it in the engine bay in a shielded area with the terminals facing down.
Posted by: jimkelly Mar 21 2016, 12:39 PM
good points and info.
i may switch to a ford solenoid for that very good reason.
do i have arrows on the correct 2 terminals?
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Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 21 2016, 02:35 PM
good points and info.
i may switch to a ford solenoid for that very good reason.
do i have arrows on the correct 2 terminals?
No. In your picture, it would be the two on the right.
Posted by: jimkelly Mar 21 2016, 03:24 PM
got ti, thanks.
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Posted by: screenguy914 Mar 21 2016, 06:20 PM
It sounds like you merely energized the starter motor, but not the solenoid. Thus, the motor spun in the resting position.
With ignition ON, this merely energizes the fuel pump and ignition.
You must energize the starter solenoid in order for the pinion gear to engage the flywheel ring gear while the solenoid plunger simultaneously energizes (sends current to) the starter motor armature/field coils.
To energize the solenoid, momentarily connect a jumper wire between the large 12V battery cable terminal and the yellow wire terminal on the solenoid. Use a remote control starter switch to make this connection from a comfortable distance. 
Sherwood
Posted by: ClayPerrine Mar 21 2016, 07:18 PM
got ti, thanks.
That would be correct. Both of those go to the starter circuit.
Posted by: cooper951 Mar 22 2016, 04:26 AM
got ti, thanks.
Where is this relay board located?
Posted by: jimkelly Mar 22 2016, 06:43 AM
in the engine bay opposite the battery. its behind the driver.
Posted by: cooper951 Mar 22 2016, 09:52 AM
in the engine bay opposite the battery. its behind the driver.
Thanks!
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