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Posted by: ChrisReale Jun 16 2003, 10:55 PM

Going to get my car re-aligned for AX. What sould I look for: Front camber, front toe
Rear Camber, Rear Toe.

If it matters, the Set up is: 205/50/15 VRacers on 15x7 wheels. 22mm front sway bar, 22mm front Tbars, 180#rear springs

I will be taking the car to Fordahl Motorsports, and they know their shit, but I want to know also. Idea's?

Posted by: Joseph Mills Jun 17 2003, 12:26 AM

[QUOTE=ChrisReale,Jun 16 2003, 10:55 PM]Going to get my car re-aligned for AX. What sould I look for

22mm front sway bar, 22mm front Tbars, 180#rear springs

Chris,
You might consider whether or not you want to lower your car before you do your suspension settings (otherwise, you'll have to do them over later). Apparently, some drivers find they DON'T like their car lowered. I'd get some opinions - maybe drive one that's been lowered and see what YOU think. Think of car height as part of the suspension tuning.

Having said that, I really like mine set up low. I have set my car up for AX'ing - it's not a daily driver. It sits about 4.25" from the doughnuts to the ground. The front A-arms are parallel to the ground and it's bump-steered. This is pretty low if you do ALOT of street driving. I have a Tuna Can and Triad exhaust, both which sits low, but no problems so far. I also have Koni adjustables, which I set on full soft - makes it a LITTLE more forgiving on the street.

Dave Darling has a set of suggested suspension tunings for different needs (street, street w/some AX, mainly AX, etc.). I think you can find them on Pelican.

I drew on his combinations for my setup. I have the same swaybar and rear springs as you do. Here's my setup:

Max caster that balances out.
1.5 deg neg camber F
1/16" toe-out F

2 deg neg camber R
1/16" toe-in R

I could not believe how changed my car was after these settings - it was literally like another car altogether. Get ready for a BIG change!

Right now I'm trying to optimize tire pressures and temps and I'm "considering" decreasing the rear camber some.

Anyway, it's really one of the cheapest performance enhancements available. Good luck with it.

Posted by: si2t3m Jun 17 2003, 06:57 AM

My settings are about the same as Joseph's.

Front:
19mm torsion bars with koni sports (red)
underbody swaybar (don't remember the mm's of it)

Max caster you can get and even it out.
1.5 deg neg camber Front
0 toe Front

Rear
180's with Koni yellow shocks
No swaybar

2 deg neg camber Rear
1/16" toe-in Rear

Do the height ajustement before anything. It will sc&w up the alignement especially toe. In a bonehead move, i lowered mine, drove to tremblant, did 3 days of DE and drove back... 2 front tires where completely bald on the inside but looked perfect on the outside. Cost me 2 new front tires.

Got the alignement done when I bought the new tires at a friends shop. The front end was so out of wack that the machine had a hard time picking up the readings.

Arrange to stay in the car when they get it aligned. camber changed pretty much with me in the car (215lbs).

Also, go over there with the specs you want and tell them to forget about the stock settings (if they have them in the alignment machine).


Marc-André

Posted by: john rogers Jun 17 2003, 07:28 AM

I would have the car corner balanced while you are getting it setup. For autocrossing especially on tight courses the $$$$ spent getting the car balanced is well worth while.

Posted by: RustyWa Jun 17 2003, 01:25 PM

Chris, what is the guesstimate for a price? I need to get mine done also.

Posted by: si2t3m Jun 17 2003, 01:45 PM

In my part of the woods... 45$cdn and I was there for at least 2 hours!

The owner (a good friend) told me that the next time it would be more!!!

Marc-André

Posted by: RustyWa Jun 17 2003, 01:50 PM

Prices from "tire/mech shops" around my area are in the $75 range. I was curious how much a place that actually knew what a 914 looked like would charge.

Posted by: ChrisReale Jun 17 2003, 03:43 PM

Fordahl Motorsports, in Bellevue charges like $90. They know their stuff, so I would say that it is worth it. If you need rear shims, cost will go up.

Posted by: Joseph Mills Jun 17 2003, 04:42 PM

Mine was done at a Porsche only shop - 100.00 for all suspension adjustments, including the lowering and a little bumpsteer tweak (it already had a kit).

John Roger's suggestion to have your car corner balanced after you do your suspension is straight on. But you don't want to do it until you know you are happy with all the adjustments, settings, wheels, tires, etc.

I'm having mine done as soon as I can convince myself that I don't need to lessen my rear camber or need heavier rear springs. LOL

Posted by: Rob Ways Jun 17 2003, 06:44 PM

I agree with the settings (1.5F, 2.0R camber). I also run 1/4 spacers.

I have the toe in adjustment as well. Just be careful with street driving with toe in. The car has a tendency to shift left or right depending on throttle / brake.

I'm not too hip on lowering the car. With 205/50 15s you're fairly low already. I also bottomed out at one event and ended up pulling the hangar off and loosening the exhaust studs.

According to Brad, cornerbalancing is a MUST (which I haven't done yet).

Posted by: ChrisReale Jun 17 2003, 06:58 PM

I think Im going to wait to get the corner balance when i get rear coil overs. I dont want a low car, just even front to back, which it is pretty much already. Can -1.5 be had in the front without those fancy spherical bearing strut mounts ?

Posted by: Rob Ways Jun 17 2003, 07:14 PM

Save $500 from buying the monoball setup and just grind out the body. My car's gone right now, but I'll shoot you a pict.

Posted by: ChrisReale Jun 17 2003, 07:21 PM

What is the max neg camber for the front, with the stock strut mounts?

Posted by: Joseph Mills Jun 17 2003, 08:08 PM

It seems to vary from one 914 to another. You will gain some neg camber when the front is lowered. On my car, the combination of lowering it and adjusting the strut mounts all the way in allowed 1.4 neg camber on the right front, which dictated what the left front would be.

Without lowering your car, if you're lucky, you may see 1 degree. So, whatever you can set the front at, you might want to consider setting the back camber the SAME as the front, or, no more than 1/2 degree MORE than the front.

1/16th inch toe-out in the front will make it turn in better. It will wander a little on the street, but I find it to be no big deal.

If you're going to get coil-overs before too long, I would wait on the corner-balancing, since it may cost you an additional 100.00 plus. And once you get the coil-overs, you'll probably want to lower it a bit, just because you can.

Posted by: Rob Ways Jun 17 2003, 10:23 PM

1.4 deg is generous from a stock chassis. I think I got just over 1.0.

Here's the grind (as done by Mr B himself):


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Posted by: Rob Ways Jun 17 2003, 10:24 PM

And another


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Posted by: Rob Ways Jun 17 2003, 10:25 PM

Driver's side wasn't as bad


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Posted by: ChrisReale Jun 17 2003, 10:57 PM

I like your avitar cavwpguy. I saw Rodney in Vegas a few years ago, and it was one of the best shows I ever went to, period. I laughed for two hours straight, and afterwards it felt like I did sit-ups all day!

Posted by: cha914 Jun 18 2003, 07:59 AM

Did Sir Andy take those pics for you?

so is the grinding on the large opening, or bolt holes or both? can't really see much there, and what do you have to remove to grind this area?

Tony

Posted by: Bleyseng Jun 18 2003, 08:41 AM

Haha Tony, I wuz gonna say that!! I could hardly tell what they ground away.
Geoff

Posted by: J P Stein Jun 18 2003, 02:20 PM

It is possible to get -2 deg at the front using stock pieces, but ya gotta hack the hell out of em'.....strut mount, mounting holes, and body work need to have approx .300 removed per degree.

Lowering the car got me to about-.8 deg....your results may vary. I was unwilling to hack the .350-.400 (WAG) to get there. The Tarret mounts got me to -2 with minimal body grinding. Here's a rerun....


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Posted by: crash914 Jun 18 2003, 02:30 PM

Hey JP! Somebody stole your gas tank!!!

Posted by: Rob Ways Jun 18 2003, 09:22 PM

Grind the bolt holes? Huh? No. The large hole is very ground down so the top of the strut can move out and increase camber.

Posted by: Rob Ways Jun 18 2003, 09:24 PM

Dangerfield is cool. Him and Hef were my childhood idols.

Posted by: ChrisReale Jun 19 2003, 12:09 AM

Ok, Ill see what the story is when i get my VRacers and my NEW Panasports mounted up next week.

Posted by: J P Stein Jun 19 2003, 02:44 AM

No?
Eh?
Move the mounts out? Wurds fail me.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jun 19 2003, 04:10 PM

Chris,

make sure you tell Greg that Brad from SSI said hello. Mueller is supposed to send him some rear roller bearings for his SCCA autoX 914.

B

Posted by: ChrisReale Jun 19 2003, 08:08 PM

Will Do Brad