I'm looking for information on dropping a 3.0 SC CIS-injected engine into a 914.
What's needed for the wiring? Other parts required? Impressions?
What did you use for heat exchangers? Did you have to add an external oil cooler? Front mounted cooler or fan-cooled mounted elsewhere?
Thanks.
Fitting the fuel distributor will be an issue. You'll need th rotate it 90-deg at a minimum, maybe mount the engine a bit lower too. Worst case you'll need a custom intake work (search others that have done it)
Wiring - Perry Kiehl makes a conversion harness (I believe)
Heat exchangers work w/o issue.
External cooler is recommended, front mount is best, but if mostly street driven an under rear trunk setup with thermostatically controlled fans will work.
What's needed ? Lots of $$$$
What do you get ? Lots of
Had a 3.0 CIS in my last Six. Ran great- no issues at all. I did add two small VW oil coolers (no fans) where the fog lights come stock. Ran it all with stainless steel hose and a turbo thermostat. That car never got hot always ran between 180-190. Plenty of power and no fuel smell or constantly messing with the webers that occupied the engine bay prior to the 3.0. I also ran the factory heat exchanger and the stock Six muffler slightly modified to resemble the GT muffler. Car sounded killer.
I have a slowly developing project to put a 2.7 CIS engine in my 914/4. Assuming this is going into your 914-6 you will also need a an adapted flywheel. Your existing 914-6 has a 6 bolt crankshaft and the 3.0 has a 9 bolt crankshaft. Patrick has an appropriate flywheel available.
As far as an adapter wiring harness is concerned there is very little that needs to be added/changed. The CIS system is really not an electronic system which makes the adaptation simpler.
In my 914/4 I am currently using Megasquirt FI and that will be my backup plan if I have problems with CIS.
Darryl
why not just call KEP and have them make it rather than deal with patrick and the associated prices?
Im not sure i would keep the CIS though.
That sounds like a fun project.. I know when I did my 2.7 conversion I ditched the cis for carbs but had I known then what I know now I would have just rotated the fuel injection 180 degrees.
On my 2.7 rebuild I plan to use a 964 cam grind and JE 9.5 cr pistons. The combo with CIS should be good for about 200 hp. Once I get going with the project, at least a couple of months, I'll start a thread on it.
No cutting required. I made a custom intake using an early Volvo 242 intake base and fabricated an intake elbow. Wiring was not complex you just need to focus. We removed the fuse panel. Added a fuel pump relay and a tach wire from the back. I put the computer under the passenger seat and added a sensor bung on 1 58" headers.
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I tore the CIS off and put on Webers for my 3.0 /6 conversion. It sounds better, looks better, performs better, easier to work on, and makes the conversion itself a lot easier with fewer electronics and sensors. But your MPG goes down and fuel smell is indeed an issue. I don't care about MPG but sometimes the fuel smell is annoying. Regrets? None.
I have been reading up on oil coolers, the need for them and where they can be successfully placed. It seems that a rule of thumb that has been thrown out is that anything larger than a 2.7 running FI needs an external cooler. Obviously, I won't do anything that can't be bolted into the car and then removed but weighing the options is difficult.
OPTION 1 - Its a given - I have my carbs rebuilt (they need to be rebushed). Once I do this, I could simply put them back on the stock 2.0 and drive it.
OPTION 2 - Or, I could pull and pickle the entire engine and carbs, and spend the money to have the carbs rebuilt towards a complete FI engine. I've found a 2.7 CIS, a 3.0 CIS and a 3.2Motornic all for about the same money going in.....but then there is the whole oil cooler issue.
OPTION 3 - Have the carbs rebuilt but set-up for a larger, say 2.4 carbed engine (again, found one of these for about the same money as in option 2 but its rebuilt). This approach would be more $s overall because I'd be rebuilding the carbs and buying a motor but there would be no need for an external oil cooler and it would suit the character of the car better than turning it into a monster.
Thoughts?
Any recommendations on where to have the carbs rebuilt? Because of the shaft play, they need to be rebushed so its not something I'm ready to try.
You won't know for sure about the external oil cooler ( no matter what the engine size) until you run your car. Some engines rune hotter than others and where and how you drive matter. Your in GA, not ME, count on a cooler no matter what. I would buy the engine for the engine, not to save money on an oil cooler.
Based on my small brain, anything over a 2.7 should get an oil cooler....unless you happen to live in Alaska. As for the carbs, Paul Abbott in N Cal can rebuild the webbers for approximately $2700 - $3000, especially if the shafts need work.
I would dump a 3.2 and drive away with a Big Smile.
I put my oil cooler under the trunk with a fan - it works great. Before my engine temps were going to 240 and possibly higher but I stopped driving. Now they never touch 210.
" I would buy the engine for the engine, not to save money on an oil cooler."
Its obviously not the cost of the oil cooler but getting one to work without having to cut the car for the engine or the cooler.
As for the oil cooler, if you are going to track it you will need real good cooling. The factory GT style setrab cooler mounted up front along with the engine mounted one kept me around 180-190f on the street even on the hot 100f days in sac. On the track I'd get up to 240f in a 20 min drive session.
I kept my motor almost stock and in California I have never had mine heat up enough to need an external cooler. I have even driven 1500 miles with no problems.
I don't know about Atlanta though.
Wife's car has a 3.0 with CIS.. Never had an issue with the way it runs.
High compression JE's and slightly more cam..
Engine was built to pass California Emissions, which it did.
Car came back here to have a 3.6 put in and I bought it.
Good Donor motor............
my advice, buy the best car you can and drive it for a few years, all the while saving the money you would spend on fixing it up, say $300 a month... after four or five years sell the first car, buy a better car with the money plus the savings, then drive that car, rinse and repeat.
You will never make money fixing up a car and then selling it...
You can always buy a car someone else did for less than they have in it.
$300 a month for 30 years is $108,000
all the while you would be driving your car instead of laying under it learning to weld, fab, paint, fix and repair, etc....
(you asked for advice... )
Here is the part number on the back of the intake.
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3.2 W/pmo's...
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I'm kind of having the same issue. I want more than a 2.4 T, but don't want to cut the car....
Have a 3.0 and was talked into Webbers and selling the CIS. Also have an 82 SC with the same motor with CIS. The performance of each is not night and day even in the lighter 914. The mileage difference is noticeable and had to install an exhaust fan in the 914 berth which runs 24X7 to keep gas fumes out of the house. Webbers are sexy and have a great induction noise, but if I had it to do over again, I would have kept th CIS.
Throttle linkage had to be modified, tach had to be changed from mechanical to electronic. Have the real deal 914-6 HEs and added a front oil cooler which does its job.
You may also want to consider upgrading the brakes if you haven't already.
Here is a link to my 3.0L photos
http://www.jefftucker.net/ThreadBuild.html
As much as I like the 'cool factor' of carbs, I LOVED how easy it was to start the '74 911 with a 3.0 CIS installed. Easy start and no gas smell.
Naturally I didn't have the same emotional connection to it....I'm a glutton for punishment
If I could get that out of the 914 and 356, without spending a combined $10k on EFI, I'd be a happy camper.
CIS was an excellent system, as long as you kept it clean. The hydromechanical aspect could make some peoples' heads spin, but it was a really efficient, simple, and effective system.
How many Rabbits, Sciroccos, Audis, Mercedes, Volvos, even Ferrari and Lotus had K-Jetronic?
But leave the gas cap off of a Rabbit and let fuel tank rust get into the system...you're toast. Exactly how my dad killed my '84 GTI.
It also doesn’t like to sit unused all winter or for long periods.
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