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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Setting Dwell/ Hit & Miss ???'73 2.0 FI

Posted by: Bruce Allert Mar 30 2005, 08:56 PM

I must'a spent, all totaled, 3-4 hours on this dwell shitthing Started out at 25 then got it to 40 up'd it a wee bit & hit 50 got it down to 47 & thought, "that's cool" I'll see how the timing does...

Sheese now I can't get it to adjust to the 27 BTDC it's supposed to be.... I can't win.

How do you adjust yer dwell?
and no fair answering "I got Pertronics" or "I got that other expensive electronic thingy"

I'm just doin this points thing cuz my Petronics shit da bed.

Prolly gonna go back!

........b

Posted by: Joe Ricard Mar 30 2005, 09:28 PM

Get a reference point with a feeler gauge. Then you can go tight or loose on the blade. actually changes dwell quite a bit.

What zackly do you mean can't set timing to 27 BTDC? Timing is timing just give the dizzy a twist.
unless you are jamming up the mechanical advance.
What dizzy you using? vacuum lines disconnected and plugged? and the advance plate does it's deal correctly?

IDONNO

Posted by: Bleyseng Mar 30 2005, 10:08 PM

Dwell is the gap between the points, Bruce. Timing is the point where it sparks in relation to the crankshaft. 27 degrees before top dead center at 3500 rpms is the correct timing.

Geoff

Posted by: Gint Mar 30 2005, 10:34 PM

On my 4 bangers, I learned what the inital point gap setting was for each engine and distributor that corresponded to the correct dwell. After the first time figuring out what that gap was, I could usually hit it dead nuts afterwards even when installing new points.

But I too don't understand why you can't set you timing after setting your dwell.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 30 2005, 11:07 PM

On my car, when it still had points, the 0.016" gap just about hit the dwell angle perfectly. Of course, the points would then crud over and the car would run like crap 500 miles later, but hey... I figure a business card would be just about perfect.

--DD

Posted by: redshift Mar 30 2005, 11:15 PM

lol

I think Dave is on(to) something here.. the business card should be a reputable local Porsche mechanic's.

M

Posted by: Bruce Allert Mar 30 2005, 11:59 PM

Initially I had the points set at somewhere around 45 - 47. Had it timed at 27 BTDC. It ran crappy so I put in brand new points. Got them set the same. Then, while running the car at 3500, it refuses to bring the red 27 degree mark into view. Never had such a thing happen before. Just dumbfounds me. The book says to set dwell between 44 & 50. It idles fine but has trouble taking throttle. I'll piss wit it for awhile longer then, if it still won't work fer me I'll piss on it

........b

Posted by: redshift Mar 31 2005, 12:04 AM

Experience: Piss won't help dwell.

M

Posted by: anthony Mar 31 2005, 12:08 AM

I had a wandering dwell until I took my distributor apart, cleaned and lubed it. After that things improved greatly. I did add a pertronix as well and that helped a little more.

Posted by: Bruce Allert Mar 31 2005, 12:14 AM

QUOTE (redshift @ Mar 30 2005, 11:04 PM)
Experience: Piss won't help dwell.

M

but ya might get a charge if ya do it whilst it's runnin'

.......b

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 31 2005, 06:12 AM

dwell is NOT ultra-critical. it will however affect the timing if it's not set right.

just for background, because i haven't seen the procedure spelled out yet, turn the engine to *around* TDC #1.

move the points rubbing block to the high spot on the distributor cam. you can do this either by turning the engine or loosening the dizzy clamp and spinning the dizzy. i used to struggle with getting the engine positioned just so, then i realised i was going to loosen it to adjust timing anyway, so it didn't matter...

then, by loosening the hold-down screw and moving the stationary point, achieve a 0.016" gap. a matchbook cover (not a business card) is close enough for the side of the road, but use a CLEAN feeler gauge and get it right. tighten the hold-down screw, recheck your 0.016" gap, and you're done.

THEN set your timing. too much dwell (points closed too long) just means that the points open late and you will never be able to get as much advance as you need.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Mar 31 2005, 07:03 AM

I think Rich hit it on the noggin. You are doing it wrong
It just might be that you are not getting the best positioning of the points rubbig block and the 4 lobe cam on the dizzy.

Posted by: mike_the_man Mar 31 2005, 08:03 AM

I've always done it just like Rich said, and never had a problem. I've only used a dwell meter once, but by setting the gap, the dwell was bang on. Of course, now that I have a pertronix, there is no need to set dwell. Much easier. Just take your time Bruce, you'll get it.

Posted by: Bruce Allert Mar 31 2005, 08:17 AM

(slapping head in "I could'a had a V8" fashion)

I feel like a dumbass Thanks Rich for pointing out the easy way. I don't have to push the car no mo'

.......b

Posted by: Travis Neff Mar 31 2005, 08:28 AM

Don't rule out having your dwell setting accurate. I forget the figure but for every few degrees of dwell it adust your timing by 2 or 3 or something? As far as it not getting or getting too much advance with incorrect settings, waay out of range your tach will do weird stuff, car will start to miss and whatnot.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 31 2005, 08:32 AM

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Mar 31 2005, 09:28 AM)
Don't rule out having your dwell setting accurate. I forget the figure but for every few degrees of dwell it adust your timing by 2 or 3 or something?

if the dwell changes after you set the timing, the timing will similarly change.
this is why the timing drifts as the rubbing block wears.

and it's why you set the point gap first.

Posted by: scott thacher Mar 31 2005, 08:41 AM

QUOTE (mike_the_man @ Mar 31 2005, 06:03 AM)
Of course, now that I have a pertronix, there is no need to set dwell.

actually you do have to check it when ever you put it in or remove and reinstall. years ago i just installed mine and it ran like crap using the piece of plastic they sent as a gauge. once i put a dwell meter on it, it was like 70 degress, so i had to move it out more. i found the card board box that the points come in where the perfect thickness.

btw if anybody needs a dwell meter i can give you my old one for shipping

Posted by: Bruce Allert Mar 31 2005, 09:23 AM

I got home from work yesterday & ran out to the shop with dilusions that I'd get this thing set. After multiple time of setting the gap & testing with dwell meter the engine got real warm.

I started smelling what was similar to someone burning their garbage or trash barrel... didn't pay it no mind

Then an abnormal amount of smoke began flowing thru the engine bay with the same smell (DOH!)

When I work under the car I place a long clean piece of cardboard under it cuz it makes sliding around easy.

Well, when the car was getting hot the cardboard began to curl near the exhause pipes!

It was the cardboard burning that I smelled and it was
H O T!

Dumbass # 2 incident confessed

........b

Posted by: Rhodes71/914 Mar 31 2005, 09:50 AM

Guess it was Exciting, Oregon yesterday huh?

But did you get the Dwell and timing set correctly?

Posted by: Bruce Allert Mar 31 2005, 02:26 PM

Ya, it was kinda exciting. I told my wife if it'd have caught fire I'd just push it out into the yard & watch it burn! She got this smile on her face & said, "insurance would buy it, huh?"

Ya, well.......... no such luck

.......b

Posted by: Bruce Allert Mar 31 2005, 04:10 PM

A BIG THANKS TO RICH I followed yer plan and got it gaped, timed & running on a 1/2 hour of my lunch.

Runs G U D too

....b

Posted by: ArtechnikA Mar 31 2005, 04:16 PM

you are welcome.

i'm surprised i remembered any of that, except that i tinkered with 4-cylinder Kettering ignition cars for about 30 years, and only went pointless in the 911 a year ago ...

i'll have a celebratory beer for you tonight...

( still got some Guiness left over from St Patrick's day... ... )

Posted by: Bruce Allert Mar 31 2005, 07:54 PM

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 31 2005, 03:16 PM)

i'll have a celebratory beer for you tonight...

( still got some Guiness left over from St Patrick's day... ... )

& I'll grab me a F A T T I A R

I gotta remember the famed slogan

KISS

keep it simple stupid

......b