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Posted by: MarkV May 12 2016, 05:22 PM

I had a noise coming from the rear of my car that sounded like something was loose clanking around in my trunk of something. When I would go over bumps something was rattling around. I looked all over the exhaust system and checked the CV joints and couldn't find anything loose. I even emptied everything out of the trunk including the jack. I jacked the car up and noticed that my passenger side rear wheel was loose...it had like 3/8" of play when I pulled on it from side to side. So I ordered a new SFK rear bearing and installed it. After installing the bearing there is still some play in it. Not like it was but I can still hear something loose just not as much. The driver side bearing I changed a few years ago is tight with no play. I remember that when I changed the passenger side there were marks on the retainer where it looked like the outside radius on the bearing had spun at some point....didn't pay much attention to it. I have ordered another bearing and I am getting ready to take it apart again. Has anyone ever had a problem like this with a rear bearing...any pointers?

Posted by: stugray May 12 2016, 05:42 PM

If your bushings seize up as they get warm, they will start making a banging noise.
The best description was having a trunk monkey with a ballpeen hammer.

Mine fronts did it once they got warm.
Drive the car until it is making the noise and quickly jack the car up .
If it is the bushings they will make the noise as you raise the car and the arm lowers.
You can use a second jack to raise & lower the trailing arm to be sure.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan May 12 2016, 05:46 PM

with Stu. Before you remove the bearing again, check the bushings. More than likely they're 40 years old and need to be replaced.

Posted by: MarkV May 12 2016, 05:58 PM

There is still something wrong with the bearing or the install of the bearing. I can wiggle the tire back and forth and the movement is at the center of the hub.

I need to remove the shock and rotate the arm to check the bushings but I don't believe that's my problem.

I installed the new bearing back before the first of the year and I am just getting back to it now. It's a pain in the butt job and I may not be able to use the new bearing over again. The old bearing didn't look that bad it was just extremely dry and crusty.

Posted by: rgalla9146 May 12 2016, 06:29 PM

Did you inspect the trailing arm when you replaced the last bearing ?
Did the bearing press into the trailing arm with no resistance ?
Maybe a previous owner neglected a failed / seized bearing and ruined the trailing arm.
Are you certain you are tightening the hub properly?

Posted by: Garland May 12 2016, 06:49 PM

The rear bearings I installed, but have not run on yet, also have more play then I recall having, when I have installed them in the past.

The question I have is, how much play is there in a correctly installed rear wheel bearing?

Posted by: somd914 May 12 2016, 06:57 PM

Is your hub worn? I had one wear, couldn't get it tight, replaced the bearing but still lose, I finally examined the hub closely and discovered it was worn, no longer round, and undersized. However, I had a typical bearing growl, not the noise you are describing.

As for play, I can't really feel/see any play with trying to rock the wheels.

Posted by: MarkV May 12 2016, 07:07 PM

I had to use MAP gas to get the castle nut loose. I thought the bearing was original but it was a FAG made in Spain so maybe not. After I cleaned everything up the new bearing went in fairly east using the frozen bearing method. I did have to tap on the brake flange a couple of times with a block of wood to get enough thread to catch the castle nut. I used a torque wrench on the flange bolts and the CV bolts. I tightened the castle nut with a 1/2" air impact. Maybe I damaged the new bearing somehow....didn't seem like it at the time.

Posted by: MarkV May 12 2016, 07:14 PM

There was a wear mark on the retainer flange where the outer part of the bearing had spun on it at some point. Didn't look bad so I installed it facing the opposite direction. The wear mark was toward the front of the car. If I can get it back apart without ruining the new bearing maybe I should use my belt sander and dress the surface of the retainer flange or find a good used one and replace it.

Posted by: somd914 May 12 2016, 08:09 PM

But have you torqued it to required spec which I don't recall the value off the top of my head but recall it's in the 225-250 lb-ft. Unless you have a quality, heavy duty impact wrench, it won't get near that torque despite it's advertised numbers.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan May 12 2016, 08:27 PM

Nailed it. You need to torque it to spec (217-250 ft. lbs). You start at 217 and work your way up until you get to the next open position on the nut. On these double row bearings, proper torque is absolutely essential to not only ensure that the bearing is seated, but also provided the proper preload to ensure long bearing life. You can look through my build thread below (signature) to find how I did mine while on the car using the threaded rod approach. Most 1/2 torque wrenches only go up to about 150 ft-lbs, so I went to that point, then added my weight (200 lbs) at 12 inches out on the breaker bar. This is roughly 200 ft-lbs. Then continue going till you get to the next available open position on the nut.

Posted by: MarkV May 12 2016, 08:42 PM

I tightened the crap out of it with a Snap-On impact but didn't use a torque wrench. The impact wouldn't break it loose but I thought it was because of rust. I have a torque wrench that goes to 250# that I had to buy for a different project. I will give that a try before I take it all apart again. Seems odd that it was loose before I changed the bearing when the castle nut was tight AF and the new bearing is still loose.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan May 12 2016, 08:47 PM

Well it *looks* like the bearing is fully seated in the arm, but it's possible you're not getting it fully seated. That bearing retainer should be completely flush if you've got it in all the way. If not, it could contribute to the issue you're seeing. I fully admit that I torqued down a hub nut on my wife's Mazda once to spec... but it kept growling when going down the road. Sure enough I never got the bearing in all the way - but like I said, it torqued to spec when the wheel was on the ground. Took it back off and sure enough, the bearing went in another 1/16th inch. Then torqued it down and all good. My mistake.

Still need to test to rule out the bushings too though. While you're in there sort of thing.

Posted by: MarkV May 12 2016, 09:41 PM

I should have waited to post this when I had more time to wrench on it. I was curious so I took the wheel and cotter pin off. The wrench clicked when set at 200#. When I set it to 250# I didn't have enough huevos to get it to click so I had to stand on it. It clicked but it didn't turn very far. I had to put the big breaker bar on it and go past 250# to get the cotter pin to line up again.

I put the wheel back on and there was no more movement if I tried to go from side to side. When I tried to move the tire in at out at the top center I could still get it to move a tiny bit. It moved enough that it makes a noise. I jacked up the drivers side to see if there is any movement on that side and it doesn't move at all.

Maybe I just need to take it apart again and closely examine everything. Maybe dress the flange retainer with a big file or a belt sander.

Posted by: Garland May 12 2016, 11:11 PM

Posted by: MarkV May 13 2016, 10:09 AM

It still isn't as tight as the other side. I can still move it and it is not coming from the bushings so I decided to take it apart. It all came apart pretty easy and I don't believe I did any harm to the new bearing. I think I found the problem. The retainer plate is deformed. Not sure what would cause that to happen. Maybe the previous owner used it the draw down the bearing or something. Rather than try to source another retainer I am going to straighten the old one and run it over a belt sander to make sure it is flat. If it doesn't work I have another bearing and I can take it apart again and replace the retainer plate.




Attached image(s)

Posted by: MarkV May 13 2016, 10:10 AM

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Posted by: 6freak May 13 2016, 10:30 AM

if the bearing is loose in the trailing arm you can use locktite retaining compound if its under about 8 k that will take any play away ...BUT if you ever have to remove that bearing .... or you can do flame spray and have it milled

did you mic the stub axle hub and the inner bearing race....good luck

Posted by: MarkV May 13 2016, 10:34 AM

The bearing is not loose in the trailing arm. Everything still had grease on it so it came apart lots easier than last time but all still tight. The surface on the stub axle looks good as does the surface of the wheel flange.

Posted by: Bartlett 914 May 13 2016, 12:36 PM

It doesn't make sense that even after tightening the stub axle that there is still play. This would indicate either a bad bearing or there is an issue with the stub axle. Under the nut there is a washer. Is there one? Can it be the stub axle protrudes too far and you are tightening the nut against a shoulder on the stub axle and not on the bearing inner race?

Posted by: MarkV May 13 2016, 02:24 PM

I put it half back together with the now flat retainer plate and ran the nut down to about #200 which is about as far as the impact will go. There was still play in the bearing not much but enough to not use it. I have another new bearing in the freezer so I decided to go ahead and replace the bearing again. The first bearing is an SFK bearing is made in Slovakia the off brand replacement I just installed is made in China. It all went back together without a problem and I torqued it to #250. No more play....rock solid. I don't know what the problem is with the SFK it came out in one piece and rolls fine doesn't appear to be anything wrong with it. Maybe I screwed it up somehow on the installation.

The big thick washer under the castle nut is in place...there were no missing parts. Not sure you could torque it to #250 without that washer in place.

Posted by: rgalla9146 May 13 2016, 03:13 PM

The bearing retainer isn't really a part of the bearing package.
The bearing / hub / flange become one when tight.
The retainer is there to keep a catastrophic wheel bearing failure from causing an AWOL wheel.
The wear marks on the retainer indicate a loose bearing.

Posted by: somd914 May 13 2016, 03:28 PM

Posted by: 6freak May 13 2016, 03:29 PM

Nice!!

Posted by: MarkV May 13 2016, 03:50 PM

I had to use a 3# slide hammer to get the old new bearing out. When I initially installed the SFK bearing the original bearing was really hard to get out. I don't beleive I had a loose bearing. After I flattened out the retainer and filed it I put it back on and torqued the bolts to 25#. When I took it back off you could see a mark all the way around it where it touched the outer circumference of the bearing. I believe the bearing stands proud of the trailing arm just a hair by design. Someone had over tightened the retainer at some point and deformed it. I think it is all good now no more play when I try to move the tire in and out.

Posted by: 914Mike May 14 2016, 04:21 PM

My first thought when you said there was no play in one direction, but some at 90 degrees was trailing arm slop, did you check the inner nut? Tends to loosen first...

Posted by: Amphicar770 May 17 2016, 08:14 PM

Dumb question.

When torquing the axle nut. If one wheel is off and other is on the ground will that keep wheel from spinning without damaging tranny. Or, should wheel be secured some other way. Thx.

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 17 2016, 09:27 PM

It'll turn the input shaft of the trans, and turn over the engine. Not enough resistance there, most likely.

Best to solidly brace or hold the hub.

--DD

Posted by: malcolm2 May 17 2016, 09:39 PM

Sorry, but I did not go thru all the posts.... feeling like Twitter has reduced my ability to read over 140 characters...

But your wobble was without the CV mounted and torqued, right? I would have bet that that was the case.

Glad you got it.

Posted by: MarkV May 18 2016, 08:43 AM

I think the SFK/FAG bearing from Slovakia was defective. I found an old thread where someone else had a similar problem with a new FAG bearing right out of the box.

To torque the castle nut I used the emergency brakes. Be sure you remove the two small screws that hold the rotor to the hub and thread a couple of lugs in part way.

Posted by: 914Sixer May 18 2016, 06:30 PM

For what it is worth, I redid the rear bearing and ran into the same problem. One side is nice and tight, the other has a little movement. Do not remember which bearings though. Everything torqued to spec Going to redo the drivers side.

Posted by: MarkV May 18 2016, 08:11 PM

The defective bearing is in the photo below. FAG made in Slovakia. It replaced a bearing that was also FAG made in Spain that was in the car when I bought it. I replaced it because it had play in it.

Replaced the drivers side a few years ago with a FAG but I don't recall where it was made. That bearing was replaced because it was growling.

Posted by: Amphicar770 May 19 2016, 07:51 PM

So, a piece of angle iron drilled for wheel bolts or something else?

Posted by: Dave_Darling May 19 2016, 10:29 PM

That oughtta work, as long as it is stout enough.

--DD

Posted by: Geezer914 May 19 2016, 11:16 PM

I try to buy Timken bearings. Rock Auto has 2000 BMW 328i Timken wheel bearings #5513106 that is the same part number as a Porsche 914 rear wheel bearing. $54+ each. I just posted about a you tube video on a mechanic replacing Porsche Boxster font wheel bearings that kept failing. He took a new FAG bearing apart and one side of the bearing had no grease!

Posted by: Amphicar770 May 20 2016, 07:39 AM

Just torqued them down. Wow, that is a lot of torque. I had to buy a bigger torque wrench. This one is quite nice and there is currently $10 off a $50 purchase at AZ, bringing price down to $49. It is the same (rebranded) unit that places like Eastwood are selling for much more.

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-24340-2-Inch-Torque-25-250-Foot/dp/B00C5ZL1NS

Looking back at receipt from PP, looks like i did get the FAG bearkings. That will stink if there is a defective lot out there, including whatever I installed.

Posted by: Geezer914 May 23 2016, 12:06 PM

Just received the Timken bearings from Rock Auto. They are FAG bearings made in Slovakia in a Timken box! #513106.

Posted by: Amphicar770 May 23 2016, 06:39 PM

Apparently the guys on the Bimmer and Volvo forums already discovered this. Kind of a crying game moment.
http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/13174499-For-those-of-you-who-need-WHEEL-BEARINGS-sweet-surpirse....

Posted by: John Sep 13 2016, 08:09 PM

That is what I use. Mine is a 2"x2"x3/8" angle drilled to hold the wheel studs. Mine is approximately 4ft long (a little longer than my torque wrench)





This pic is very old. Many donuts and lots of grey hair ago....


I have to replace these bearings on the race car every 4 events (with 2 drivers). My street car has been good for 8 years so far.