Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: 914Gelb May 18 2016, 04:55 AM

Hello Guys,

since many years I'm working on my 914-6 restoration project. Now I have finished most of the jobs like engine and transmission rebuild, electric harness, suspension ..., now it's time for the body work. Normally before I start I try to collect es much information to get a perfect result.

My body was repaired in the past by unexperienced and now I have to fix this badly bodywork. See the pictures and look at the door clearence than you understand.

The question is how can I fix this and if you had the same topic how was it fixed by you.




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 18 2016, 04:58 AM

More pictures


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 18 2016, 04:59 AM

one more


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: tomrev May 18 2016, 06:14 AM

I think you will need to cut out the past patching, so the tub can be straightened out, and then do a proper re-weld, without warping the car. Pretty sure it was on jack stands when welded, and and the heat pulled it out of whack. I'm sure you know all this. A Six will be worth the effort!

Posted by: dlee6204 May 18 2016, 06:19 AM

Unfortunately the only way to properly fix it is to cut out and replace the entire long. The previous work done is pretty bad.

Posted by: rgalla9146 May 18 2016, 08:21 AM

It might not be as bad as you think.
I'd re-install the drive train and suspension and put the car on the ground.
Roll the car around to settle it under its own weight.
Do so with four uniform tires. On a flat floor.
The issues can not be evaluated with the car on jackstands.
The front gap will be done by "adjusting " the hinges with a floor jack or a big
f_ _ _ _in hammer.
Then the rear can be better judged.
Remove the door latch until you get it close.

Posted by: 914Gelb May 18 2016, 10:24 AM

To roll the car and check the clearance is something I already have taken in consideration. But the point I still don't understand is how much the body clearance is influenced by welding/heat in the inner longitude. Before I start welding this metal part will be holde in place by using screws and clamps. However it must be guaranted that before welding the body is braceless. The floor panel will be completely exchanged and also the outer longitude. Much work I waiting The clearance on the driver side is also Bad although on this side nothing was welded.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: mbseto May 18 2016, 02:13 PM

My longs look a lot like that. Previous owner welded and brazed (!) patches all along the bottom. I bought new metal from RD and I'm in the process of cutting it all out and welding new metal in. I made braces to control the door gaps while the frame is compromised. My gaps may have been bad because of the welding, but I think the rust was a bigger factor- it was just sagging because of weakness. Welding torch, tape measure, and patience should take care of it...

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 18 2016, 03:33 PM

If you feel the previous repairs were done poorly, I would brace the car at the door openings, put it on a rotisserie and cut out the old repairs and do them correctly, utilizing factory measurements to make sure all is square and plumb.

A Six is worth doing correctly. You will sleep better knowing it was all done correctly. Additionally, document all of that work too so if you decide to sell the car in the future you can prove the work was done to proper standards.

Good luck and keep us in the loop with lots of pictures.

Posted by: OU812 May 18 2016, 06:31 PM

Allais, another sunflower yellow car covered in Red!

Posted by: cary May 18 2016, 08:08 PM

Is a 914-6 conversion or the real deal? Makes a big difference.

Posted by: rick 918-S May 18 2016, 09:01 PM

Start by studying these dimensions.

http://www.914world.com/specs/bodydims.php

You car is an interesting puzzle. There will be some key things you will have to keep track of from start to finish.

Part of the problem is once the chassis started going south the repair person may have tried to bend things like the windshield frame to make the door fit less obvious. This makes some of the measurements you want to use unreliable. I will get you past that by starting with the lowest point on the car and working up. So there will be very few measurements you can count on as a baseline but you can get this back in spec.

I'm going to make some assumptions as a place to start for now. If the following turns out to be unreliable I can back up one step. I am going to assume at least the forward check sets are intact. (the donuts or pucks under the car) Post some photos and I will instruct you in another direction if they are damaged, rusted/repaired or missing. For now start here.

Here is where I would start. Set the car up on a level plain at the forward check sets. Set it level from right to left across the car.

Now bring the car up or down front or rear to get the left side longitudinal level. If you have achieved this on the left go over and check the right side, as well as the right to left at the rear check sets.

I'm not confident the rears will be intact but my goal is to determine if, when the welding was done the last guy caused the longitudinals right side to left side to be out of plain. So first we are looking for twist. Don't worry about anything else until you have addressed this.

Report back with this information and I will tell you where to go next.

I will need some more photos from you too.

If you can take a right side and left side photo of the whole car and photos of the check sets that would be helpful. Also photos of the longitudinal photos both sides.

This will take awhile to get through but if you have patients and a space to work where the car can sit without being moved I can help you get it straight.

Posted by: 914Gelb May 18 2016, 11:44 PM

Hello Cary, The car is a real 914-6, I never would by a conversion because in Austria the approval certifacte you will not get. All the tests you have to made and pass... this is different then in US

Hello Rick, I will send more pictures, I think the cassis have twisted. I already ordered many parts form Restoration Design. The measurments I will make on the weekend, I have to organize a telescopic gauge.
The care is accident free and at the moment I see rust on different places. Have a look on the additional pictures,


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 18 2016, 11:47 PM

and more pictures


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 18 2016, 11:53 PM

my hand made cellete


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 18 2016, 11:57 PM

front trunk


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: cary May 19 2016, 12:01 AM

Nice, good luck on your project.

Your in good hands. With Rick's long distance guidance you'll come up with the correct plan.

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 12:03 AM

rear trunk


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 12:06 AM

right outer side


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 12:07 AM

again right side


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 12:16 AM

engine


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 12:20 AM

transmission, rebuild by my own, bought tools to align shaft and pinion (was damaged)


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 12:26 AM

pinion


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 12:36 AM

Before the rebuild, I'm sitting in the 914-6


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: sixnotfour May 19 2016, 05:54 AM

looks like a pretty decent six, other than needing a hip replacement....was it yellow then green now red ???
the inner long, in Germany looks to be perfect compared to the RD one..the bottom flange even has the correct stamped impressions...here is a link;
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Innenschweller-rechts-neu-TOP-passend-fuer-Porsche-914-Hersteller-HESS-/251409572397


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 06:19 AM

Yes it was yellow, and after restoration it will be again yellow.
The inner long from Germany is really expensive the part from RD I already have. But you are right, German Part is really detailed made.

Posted by: rick 918-S May 19 2016, 06:48 AM

After viewing the photos that car is not bad just poorly repaired. I noticed the section on the right where the door threshold sill meets the quarter panel is intact. That's good, these often get rust damage. It's a tricky little transition from the sill to the quarter panel.




Hell hole looks like surface rust for the most part. Both trunks look good.


The chassis jig will work out well. Does it extend back as far as the transaxle mounts? Get the car set up and let's analyze it. You may want to see if you can get a couple cheap laser pointers. you can attach one of those bubble levels the contractors use on string lines and make a cheap laser dimensioning tool.

One of the worst jobs is going to be removing that spray can undercoating.

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 19 2016, 07:01 AM

Yeah, that Six does not look bad at all. But until you remove all the sound deadening from the chassis to see what it really looks like, we are just guessing. But the car really does look like a great starting point. The engine and transaxle look nicely done too. We will be watching this thread as your Six progresses through the chassis restoration.

Posted by: 914Gelb May 19 2016, 08:56 AM

For the undercoating and Paint removal I decided to use mbx. Hoppefully it works as promised


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: SixerJ May 19 2016, 12:44 PM

Another cool 914-6 thread. Subscribed and looking forward to the &

Posted by: sixnotfour May 19 2016, 02:15 PM

I know , But in the Long run it will be worth it,,at least your closer than us USA peeps,, judging by what you have done so far,,it deserves it



BTW nice pinion depth tool ,,,,,I have the same one, with the gauge blocks also

Posted by: Luke M May 19 2016, 04:41 PM

This is the part that you want to do the repair with. I'm in the same place as you on a repair to my 6. I also have the RD parts on hand but after taking a long hard look at things want the org parts for my repair. I even emailed the above company to see if they would ship to the US. At first their ad said they would ship to the US but now it's " may not ship to US". They did get back to me with a shipping cost of 100 Euro's plus whatever other fee's are involved. I get the feeling they do not want to ship to the US for whatever reason. If you need a replacement long for the drivers side I believe RD now carries a copy of the org part. I've searched for a while now looking for some oem panels and did locate some for my repair. There's a few items still on my list with the factory right long being one of them. Best of luck on locating the parts you may need. Another way is to buy a usable parts car to harvest the metal from.

BTW take lots of measurements prior to cutting and welding the car back up.
I've started making a custom chassis brace for my car. This should keep things inline when welding it back together.

Posted by: 914Gelb May 20 2016, 12:13 AM

Hello Luke,
I already bought so many parts from US and I'm happy to see that people in US friendly and willing to sell to Austria.
The shipping fees are sometimes really high and the customs... yes if it is not a gift and the price+ shipping fees > 100Euro I have to pay charges.

However, currently I'm looking for the rubber parts attached on the rear/front pumpers. I asked companies in US, they offer cheaper.

Tell me if the German company doesn't won't to ship to you, maybe I can help. You also will get this athttp://www.mittelmotor.de/content/news/activenews_view.asp?articleID=48 329Euro they are asking for cheaper then the offer on Ebay!!! And they ship to US as well.

Posted by: rick 918-S May 20 2016, 07:01 AM

Wow! Those parts are Awesome!

Posted by: cary May 20 2016, 08:10 AM

I'm on my phone at WCR?
Is that product from Mittlemotors?
Link didn't hypertext on my phone.

Posted by: jd74914 May 20 2016, 08:18 AM

Please let us know how it works! I've always wondered and considered buying one.


------------


Cary, it is the Mittlemotor inner long. They really are awesome!

http://www.mittelmotor.de/content/news/activenews_view.asp?articleID=48

Posted by: rick 918-S May 20 2016, 08:45 AM

We need Pete to get a shipment from Mittlemotor so we don't have to pay that shipping per piece. Those are the parts I would use for a 914-6. Maybe cost prohibitive for the 4's but with prices rising... maybe not.

Posted by: sixnotfour May 20 2016, 09:49 AM

mittlemotor offers them in 2 thickness 1.5mm stock 2.0mm stronger

rick sent you a pm

Posted by: 914Gelb May 20 2016, 09:53 AM

These Parts are on the market since 2..3 years, the price was much higher, as far as I remeber about 1200Euro per pice. Now it is okay at least for 914-6 restoration. I will sell the pice from RD and will order from Mittelmotor.

If you order in Germany you must also pay additional fees( custome) ore how is this in US?

The sheet metall I already have for my car and my 2nd 914-4 2.0




Attached thumbnail(s)


Attached image(s)

Posted by: sixnotfour May 20 2016, 10:07 AM

yes

http://www.mittelmotor.de/content/news/activenews_view.asp?articleID=48

Posted by: sixnotfour May 20 2016, 10:10 AM

Nice 914

Posted by: cary May 20 2016, 10:10 AM

Another $$$ factor to consider is fiddling time to get the RD/AA to fit. If your paying to have the work done. Sometimes it might be a wash.
Another nice thing about the Mittlemotors piece, it has the recess/step for the floor panel. RD/AA piece is flat.

Posted by: 914Gelb May 20 2016, 10:20 AM

The part from MM is much more like the genuine part and both sides are available.

I already bought many parts from MM and they always delivered good quality. I like them but there is another company "memminger" they collected many parts, do you know them ?
http://www.914neuteile.de/cms/front_content.php?idcat=56

Posted by: SixerJ May 20 2016, 11:49 AM

Patrik at http://www.914er-teile.de carries those as well. Nice guy to dra with & I bought my new -6 OEM tank off him

Expensive but nice and what I will be using on my car if or rather when I need them

Keep up the good work

Posted by: Luke M May 21 2016, 05:37 AM

I've tried several times to make contact with Memminger. I've called and emailed them with no reply to date. I know they where on " holiday " at the time but not responding to a message or email in weeks doesn't sound like good business practices to me. I didn't know that Mittlemotors offered a replacement right long.
I'll reach out to Mittlemotors next and report back.

Posted by: Luke M May 24 2016, 07:55 AM

Ok, so I've called Mittlemotors and all I get is no answer. Yes, I made sure I called them when they're open for business. I also tried to email them but gets bounced back. So, is there any member in Germany that would be willing to make contact with them ? I'd like to know if they have the right inner long for sale and willing to ship to the US.


This : http://www.mittelmotor.de/content/news/activenews_view.asp?articleID=48

Posted by: worn May 24 2016, 10:22 AM

Nice tool but it is still a dirty long process.

Not sure that you know who you are getting advice from, but Rick is the real thing. He has helped many people straighten out things that looked impossible. I suggest following his advice as he has done this for a living. Some people like puzzles formed in metal and Rick is one of them. He can reverse an origami to flat rice paper.

Posted by: 914Gelb May 25 2016, 02:21 AM

Hello Luke, Mittelmotor responded on every mail I send to them, also calls are possible. I know they are sometimes really busy because the spare part deparment is responsible for the incoming calls/shipping and the guys which are currently in there office asking for parts.
I will order the right long from them I let you know!

Posted by: 914Gelb May 25 2016, 02:53 AM

Hello Worn,
The tool was the best choise, I chemical treatment ,sand/soda blasting is very expensive in Austria, also I have my doubst that the used medium can be removed out of all hollows.

I try to fix all rusted areas before I will remove all the paint an prepare for painting again.

I will poste additional pictures soon .

Posted by: Luke M May 25 2016, 06:46 AM

I got a hold of them this morning and the parts guy requested a picture/info of the part. I sent him an email with the info so I should hear back in a few days or so.

Posted by: 914Gelb Jun 21 2017, 04:42 AM

After many months I can continue working on my 914-6. Next step I already finished, Rotisserie is ready for use and dirt can be reomoved.

Posted by: 914Gelb Jun 21 2017, 04:45 AM

Posted by: 914Gelb Jun 21 2017, 04:48 AM

Started removing rubber

Posted by: 914Gelb Jun 21 2017, 04:59 AM

Here I found a small kink in the metal, 1st I was thinking car had accident in the back. I found no more hints, I don't know why this can happen.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 21 2017, 06:10 AM

I am glad to see this project moving along.

Posted by: Luke M Jun 21 2017, 06:36 AM

Keep up the work and post lots of pics of the repair.
I'll be going down that same road on my 6 at some point.

The damage you asked about (I circled it in red) and if this is the area that you're referring to that's not damage. That's a factory bend in the inner fender .


Attached image(s)

Posted by: 914Gelb Jun 21 2017, 06:49 AM

no this is not the demage I mean see the picture I added

Posted by: bretth Jun 21 2017, 07:46 AM

Maybe a previous owner was trying to improve tire to body clearance? I have similar dings on my car which I assume is where the larger tire was rubbing on the body.

Brett

Posted by: cary Jun 21 2017, 08:17 AM

Do you have some door braces ?

Posted by: 914Gelb Jun 21 2017, 11:14 PM

Door braces are not installed, bevore I start wellding I will do this .

Posted by: flyer86d Jun 22 2017, 05:47 AM

Looks like a nice car. You know, all of those previous repairs got the car to this point. It probably would not have survived without them. I wonder if kink is caused by the chassis flexing. This is one of the areas that is reinforced on the GT cars. I have seen them crack near that spot.

Charlie

Posted by: 914Gelb Jun 22 2017, 06:08 AM

Hello Charlie,

I know on guy which owns an original 914-6 GT, I have seen the added stiffening metal in the front/back. Also all of this changes are very detailed described in the original documentation which was needed for racing. However the force which is needed to kink the body in this area can only happen when the suspension/ spring can not move any more...
I have no clue if this can happen by using normal suspension setup.

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 19 2017, 11:28 PM

I continued working on my 914-6. The next step was cleaning and removing the flour panel. This is the 1st time I'm doing this and therefore I spend some hours.
I added some pictures to hear what 914 enthusiasts are saying .

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 19 2017, 11:29 PM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 19 2017, 11:30 PM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 19 2017, 11:31 PM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 19 2017, 11:33 PM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:03 AM

It looks like the body of my car is now ready for the paint job. After spending ancountable hours of body work I'm proud to show you how is solved all the body work issues.
The decision to rent the car bench from the germany 914-6 club was one of the best decisions I made. I learned a lot about body work and bought many tools to work like a car shop however it wasn't a simple job. After all my experiences I thing a 914 body is hard to repair!

But now I'm glad to present the result.

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:05 AM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:05 AM

Posted by: mepstein Sep 27 2023, 07:06 AM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:06 AM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:07 AM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:09 AM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:11 AM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:14 AM

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 27 2023, 07:18 AM

WOW!

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:19 AM

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:19 AM

Posted by: mlindner Sep 27 2023, 07:24 AM

Wow, that is a great job. will be fun to see it all come together. Mark

Posted by: 914Gelb Sep 27 2023, 07:29 AM

All the pain job you see I made by my own, covers epoxy primer(white) and epoxy filler.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 27 2023, 08:43 AM

Very nice work indeed; congratulations on getting her ready for paint. Looking forward to seeing that chassis in paint.

Posted by: burton73 Sep 27 2023, 03:52 PM

You are doing a super job on your 6 but I would like to make a suggestion, cut the pan and put the cover plates back the way it was from the factory. Your not hiding anything, and it looks like the pans where on the car as it came new. Just a small point. You can reuse your covers or get some used ones or you may find some new ones.

That is what I did on my 6

Best Bob B

Posted by: porschetub Sep 28 2023, 01:15 PM

Wow nice work ,it is a real milestone to have in primer but even better to remove all that horrible underseal and not find lots of rust underneath.
Keep up the good work .

Posted by: 930cabman Sep 28 2023, 01:50 PM

Great save, many guys would have bailed, you must be one of the really crazy ones