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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ My First Hiccup
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 6 2016, 08:08 AM
When we returned from Rt66 '16 I pulled my exhaust system down for a little trimming and noticed water in the left bank muffler! 
We did drive through a ton of water on that trip. Then when returning from Costco yesterday it acted as if it were starved for fuel when it stumbled during acceleration. The fuel filter was the same one that came on the engine so I ordered another one. When I looked at the filter to check which one I had I noticed the coolant level in the expansion tank/reservoir had dropped. Well, there you are. Head gasket time. Now, I'm wondering if the stumble was due in fact to the head gasket failing? Decisions; should I fix this one which presently has ~ 185K or buy a JDM replacement. After perusing the net I found a few peep's whose JDM experience was less than stellar. Apparently it is a crap shoot as to what you get and the 40-50K avg mileage is 
. So, for about 1K I can pick up another engine and hope I bought a good one or open this one up and hope that is all it needs since it wasn't overheated. What does the the Wasser family think?
EDIT: It's an EZ30D 6cyl
Posted by: '73-914kid Jun 6 2016, 09:33 AM
As you know, I like doing stuff myself..
Just my .02 cents, but I would have a lot more confidence in an engine you or I resealed/refreshed than a 50K mile imported engine that is essentially a big question mark.
Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jun 6 2016, 12:15 PM
Almost 100% the head gasket, and the resulting issues (as you said, the coolant has to go somewhere, right?) As Ethan said, you can do this, it's not as bad as it seems. Figure a day to get the engine out and onto a stand. Then another day to tear the accessories and heads off. Send them to a machine shop to be measured, and if necessary, decked. Do both at once - Suby's, for whatever reason are still notorious for this stuff, even as developed as the EZ30 is. 
I haven't gotten mine running yet, but after moving to the Cometic MLS gaskets, I don't think I'd ever go back to the stock composite gaskets. A little more prep, but I believe it's the best idea.
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 6 2016, 03:29 PM
You could do the head gasket no problem Kent. Doesn't look that hard at all. You have the EZ30D shop manual right? Let me know if not, I have it.
BTW I know of an EZ30R (I think is still) laying around...not a JDM. PM me if you want more info.
Posted by: colingreene Jun 6 2016, 05:25 PM
Its because they are somewhat terrible motors.
Posted by: jimkelly Jun 6 2016, 05:43 PM
a head install video i like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddFsFfiyOvg
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 6 2016, 05:57 PM
Almost 100% the head gasket, and the resulting issues (as you said, the coolant has to go somewhere, right?) As Ethan said, you can do this, it's not as bad as it seems. Figure a day to get the engine out and onto a stand. Then another day to tear the accessories and heads off. Send them to a machine shop to be measured, and if necessary, decked. Do both at once - Suby's, for whatever reason are still notorious for this stuff, even as developed as the EZ30 is.
I haven't gotten mine running yet, but after moving to the Cometic MLS gaskets, I don't think I'd ever go back to the stock composite gaskets. A little more prep, but I believe it's the best idea.
George, tell me more about the Cometic gaskets. Haven't heard of them before.
You could do the head gasket no problem Kent. Doesn't look that hard at all. You have the EZ30D shop manual right? Let me know if not, I have it.
BTW I know of an EZ30R (I think is still) laying around...not a JDM. PM me if you want more info.
Chris, a million ty's as always but yes I have the shop manual. The "R" model would require changing out the accelerator cable etc because it is drive by wire. FWIW, I decided to do both the rebuild and buy a replacement. I found a "D" model which is complete so I'm going to throw $1000 at it and holler shit. I can use the spare parts if nothing else. If it's a keeper then maybe Dr. Frankenstein will have something to "play with".
Its because they are somewhat terrible motors.
Ya'll need to ignore Collard Greens. When he was a little boy he used to come over to our farm and squirt Chicken Shit through his front teeth. I thought he would have outgrown it by now.
Posted by: effutuo101 Jun 6 2016, 06:09 PM
That sucks. But from what I have read, pretty simple to do.
good luck! My time to get out and play is limited, but happy to help pull the motor/install with you.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 6 2016, 06:43 PM
That sucks. But from what I have read, pretty simple to do.
good luck! My time to get out and play is limited, but happy to help pull the motor/install with you.
Haha, I just commented in your post, as well. Thanks for the offer Chris but if you've seen my "roll around" cradle you can see it's pretty simple. That being said, you are more than welcome to come over anytime. I'm in the Temecula/Murrieta area.
Kent
Posted by: rnellums Jun 6 2016, 07:44 PM
I'll be interested in what you find. The EZ30s are supposed to be far more reliable head-wise than the 4-cyl engines. My recollection is that changing them on the ez30 is a bit of a pain since tou have to deal with the timing chain and cover.
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 6 2016, 08:50 PM
Yeah you need a new chain...it'll be stretched so you might as well. And it's an interference engine...so check it good before you fire it up.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 6 2016, 08:51 PM
I'll be interested in what you find. The EZ30s are supposed to be far more reliable head-wise than the 4-cyl engines. My recollection is that changing them on the ez30 is a bit of a pain since you have to deal with the timing chain and cover.
You know Ross, if you don't count the ~60 bolts it doesn't look very difficult. There are a few chain guides that will require bolt replacement as their stretch bolts. The chains supposedly have color coded links and the gears have arrows to aid indexing them. It will be interesting to see what the head gaskets look like. Who knows, I may find loose head bolts from previous work. It's got about 200K on it now and I run the piss out of it. Anyway, I'll drop that thing this week(end) and post what I find.
Posted by: r_towle Jun 6 2016, 08:55 PM
What is water doing in the car?
Posted by: DBCooper Jun 6 2016, 09:06 PM
What is water doing in the car?
That's kind of a secret, Rich, but I can tell you it's what makes his car go faster than your car.
Posted by: flmont Jun 6 2016, 09:29 PM
And I thought the 2010 3.6's were non-interference engines,..damn
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 6 2016, 09:35 PM
And I thought the 2010 3.6's were non-interference engines,..damn
No sir. But then again there is a timing chain vs a belt making it much more maintenance free. You should not need to do anything to that engine that would require removing the timing chain.
http://www.scoobyenthusiast.com/subaru-faq/which-subaru-engines-are-interference-what-subaru-engines-are-non-interference/
Posted by: 914-300Hemi Jun 6 2016, 09:38 PM
sorry to hear about the engine troubles Kent. At least you have done it before so this time it will be faster.
Let me know if you need some useless assistance. I will send my son down to help.
Posted by: r_towle Jun 6 2016, 09:41 PM
What is water doing in the car?
That's kind of a secret, but I can tell you it's what makes his car go faster than your car.
A snail is faster than my car at the moment
Posted by: oldschool Jun 6 2016, 10:36 PM
Big Boy I know my shop is a bit too far from you, but 2 shops down from me there is a great group of dudes that know a bunch about Subaru...Like they race them..
http://www.timetravelauto.com/
guy's name is Richard.. let me know I can talk with them, They may be helping me put that same motor in my 911S soon... 
Posted by: rick 918-S Jun 8 2016, 07:19 AM
Likely related to the early over heating issue when you were sorting the cooling system. Now that you have that under control sounds like a fresh engine is the order of the day. Oh, and stickier fatter tires. I would say I owe you a set of rears but you built the car and just tossed me the keys. So I blame you. 
Posted by: DBCooper Jun 8 2016, 08:23 AM
Ha ha ha, he did that to you? Very cool, that's what I do, too. Especially to people who "can't imagine" a Subaru powered car. It's not possible to explain, they need to experience it.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 8 2016, 08:56 AM
You drove it like it was yours, Rick. Proud of ya. Another cause might be the constant pressure on it from running smaller coolant lines. 
I'll install a pressure gage afterwards to monitor max developed pressure and go from there. I pulled the drive train last nite but I was too tired to tear into the engine afterwards. 
However, when perusing the net this AM I found that I can buy a Brand New Subarau short block for < $2500. That ain't much for a 200K mile engine. If the heads are good and I keep machine work and misc parts/seals < $1000 that will work out to about 1.5 cents per mile to own. This may become a no brainer. I'll know more after a tear down. More later. 
Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 8 2016, 10:30 AM
2.5k. Wow. These are units sourced from Subaru by a secondary vendor?
Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jun 8 2016, 11:56 AM
Cometic gaskets are all MLS, or multi-layered steel. On a properly prepped surface they're supposed to be far superior, if not bulletproof compared to stock gaskets, which are called "composite" gaskets, produced with a bunch of soft metal material that crushes when it's torqued down.
Google it - most of the serious Suby tuners use them on those 450+ hp WRX motors.
George, tell me more about the Cometic gaskets. Haven't heard of them before.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 8 2016, 12:34 PM
2.5k. Wow. These are units sourced from Subaru by a secondary vendor?
Yeppers. Check it out and Happy Birthday. http://parts.renicksubaru.com/a/Subaru_2003_30L-AT-4WD/__6029516/SHORT-BLOCK-ENGINE/B12-003-01.html
Cometic gaskets are all MLS, or multi-layered steel. On a properly prepped surface they're supposed to be far superior, if not bulletproof compared to stock gaskets, which are called "composite" gaskets, produced with a bunch of soft metal material that crushes when it's torqued down.
Google it - most of the serious Suby tuners use them on those 450+ hp WRX motors.
George, tell me more about the Cometic gaskets. Haven't heard of them before.
Found them. They offer 3 different thickness'. Hmmm! Also noticed the article mentioned that OEM gaskets contained asbestos until the 90's and that it took Subaru a few years to develop a suitable head gasket. I wonder what I will do if I find the existing gaskets are OK.
Posted by: r_towle Jun 8 2016, 01:34 PM
I love how the engine cradle is also the drivetrain dolly...
Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 8 2016, 04:00 PM
A thing of back saving beauty.
Posted by: rick 918-S Jun 8 2016, 08:33 PM
Cometic gaskets are all MLS, or multi-layered steel. On a properly prepped surface they're supposed to be far superior, if not bulletproof compared to stock gaskets, which are called "composite" gaskets, produced with a bunch of soft metal material that crushes when it's torqued down.
Google it - most of the serious Suby tuners use them on those 450+ hp WRX motors.
George, tell me more about the Cometic gaskets. Haven't heard of them before.
I'm running Cometic gaskets on the Alien. First because the heads were cut one too many times.
I had a custom thickness made to bring the valves up off the pistons. Second because of the superior sealing. Weird things. Layered stamped steel riveted together to keep alignment while installing. They can stack them to what ever your needs are.
Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jun 8 2016, 10:25 PM
Yup, they don't sound like they'd seal, but they're good for some serious boost. It is really nice that you can get them in different thicknesses too, as deviations from stock deck height on a Suby motor also means varying cam timing from left to right banks. In my case, I had .004 taken off the heads at the machine shop, so I oversized the HGs from Cometic by the same number.
Quick question Kent - on the front of your cradle, does it bolt directly to the "early" style rubber outer engine mounts, or to the little stamped steel half-moon shaped pieces found on the later cars?
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 9 2016, 08:03 AM
I love how the engine cradle is also the drivetrain dolly...
Thx Rich, I can't remember who I stole that idea from. Musta been DBCooper or BIGKAT.
Cometic gaskets are all MLS, or multi-layered steel. On a properly prepped surface they're supposed to be far superior, if not bulletproof compared to stock gaskets, which are called "composite" gaskets, produced with a bunch of soft metal material that crushes when it's torqued down.
Google it - most of the serious Suby tuners use them on those 450+ hp WRX motors.
George, tell me more about the Cometic gaskets. Haven't heard of them before.
I'm running Cometic gaskets on the Alien. First because the heads were cut one too many times.
I had a custom thickness made to bring the valves up off the pistons. Second because of the superior sealing. Weird things. Layered stamped steel riveted together to keep alignment while installing. They can stack them to what ever your needs are.I'll need to find out what the stock thickness is then. I want to keep the CR stock which is 10.?:1. I'll look it up.
Yup, they don't sound like they'd seal, but they're good for some serious boost. It is really nice that you can get them in different thicknesses too, as deviations from stock deck height on a Suby motor also means varying cam timing from left to right banks. In my case, I had .004 taken off the heads at the machine shop, so I oversized the HGs from Cometic by the same number.
Quick question Kent - on the front of your cradle, does it bolt directly to the "early" style rubber outer engine mounts, or to the little stamped steel half-moon shaped pieces found on the later cars?
Here ya go George. A pic is worth a 1,00o words. Scroll thru these shots........ http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=201776&st=120#
Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jun 9 2016, 09:33 AM
Yeah, you'd need to find the stock thickness - I believe it's .040, but it'd be better to check with Subaru. Then, have the heads inspected and whatever machining is done to them will determine the thickness of the gasket you'd order from Cometic (0.040 + 0.0xx).
Thanks for the pictures. Now I remember how you did it. In my case, the stock engine mounts for the EG33 are shot and prohibitively expensive. So I'm looking at using solid mounts from the cradle to the engine and early 914 engine bar mounts to provide some movement/give for vibration.
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 9 2016, 10:17 AM
I have ONE good mount (and one bad one) you can have George but you really don't need them in the middle, especially for a race car. Too wobbly and you'd definitely tear one open pretty quick. You're on the right track with the early mounts at the stock location up front. You could weld extensions to the stock Subaru engine mounts or fill them with urethane for mounting to the cradle the urethane thing sounds too easy to work permanently...maybe it'd be OK.
Posted by: malcolm2 Jun 9 2016, 12:36 PM
needs some OIL on his tripod, the camera is squeaky.... nice video tho.
Posted by: flmont Jun 9 2016, 05:32 PM
I need a engine cradle,..too...!!!!
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 10 2016, 10:51 PM
Thx for the video Jim but mine is a six. I do have the factory manual which is super! So this is what it looked like fully dressed sans the idler laying on top.
And with her bra off 
Stripped off her chains
A peek inside the water pump housing. Take a close look a see that the 4 bolt holes are 6mm. You can also see the thermostat in the background.
Now look at the size of the holes on the flange of the water pump. They're 8mm and 2 of them are tapped. Once you unscrew the 4 6mm bolts that hold the pump in place you still need to get it out. All you need are 2 8mm bolts that thread into the flange and push against the case. Then you just tighten each a little and walk it out. No "pulling or prying or crying or cussing". 15 seconds and out. Brilliant! Gave me a DUH moment when I thought about it. Why aren't similar pumps all engineered like this? 
Here's one showing the smaller screw against the larger hole in the flange.
Stopped here now with the cam gears removed. Tomorrow I'll pull the rear cover off (which is basically a mirror image of that cover laying on the floor) and next the heads then off I go to find a good machinist. Some of you may remember my past experiences with some of these local machinist's. 
Posted by: colingreene Jun 11 2016, 01:40 AM
Kent is that really the best you have?
Obviously im remarking on the Irony that subaru people swap to these motors because its more reliable and so much better yet here we are.
Along with the hard fact that they are problematic motors at the best of times in performance situations.
Best of luck with getting it fixed but after seeing whats inside your timing cover id just get a brand new motor because that thing is dirtier than a alcoholic priest in in a whorehouse.
Though ill never not find the plumbing pipe cooling system funny.
Posted by: rick 918-S Jun 11 2016, 10:02 AM
Wow! Arnolds tractor oil? That thing will run 5 deg. cooler once all the sludge is removed.
Word of caution. My cooling system gauges read safe with the occasional spike in temp when I forgot to switch on my fans in stop and go traffic. Ended up cooking my oil as the oil temps were hotter than my water temps when they spiked. Cooked the viscosity enhancers out of the oil. Caused a drop in oil pressure. Castrol GTX. The bike racers call it Castrol brown. They can cook the oil in half a dozen laps. Turns the inside of your engine brown.
Posted by: 914_teener Jun 11 2016, 10:36 AM
Wow! Arnolds tractor oil?
That thing will run 5 deg. cooler once all the sludge is removed. Word of caution. My cooling system gauges read safe with the occasional spike in temp when I forgot to switch on my fans in stop and go traffic. Ended up cooking my oil as the oil temps were hotter than my water temps when they spiked. Cooked the viscosity enhancers out of the oil. Caused a drop in oil pressure. Castrol GTX. The bike racers call it Castrol brown. They can cook the oil in half a dozen laps. Turns the inside of your engine brown.
Holy crap....I thought you powder coated that black at first Kent.
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 11 2016, 11:25 AM
Sheesh Kent I better finish mine up if you're gonna move this fast.
All that mess is probably your oil pump leaking a TINY bit at the seal, or an O-Ring, something like that. It's just Subaru RTV (use grey RTV) sealing it to the block. Doesn't last forever. The oil has nowhere to go since the timing chain cover is sealed. Just gets flung around by the chains and then baked, especially since the pump is kinda high up.
Wow the shop manual does a great job of describing break down/build up with color pics and stuff!
Posted by: 914forme Jun 12 2016, 09:55 AM
Poly mounts to the -4 mounting point are easy. I have a set made up, that I don't need anymore if you want them.
Or you just use https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-9-4101G-Universal-Mount/dp/B000CN9BZ0/ref=sr_1_10?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1465746866&sr=1-10&keywords=Energy+Suspension+Mount and build your own.
A couple pieces of steel your done, also work for the rear trans mounts.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 12 2016, 03:47 PM
Kent is that really the best you have?
Obviously im remarking on the Irony that subaru people swap to these motors because its more reliable and so much better yet here we are.
Along with the hard fact that they are problematic motors at the best of times in performance situations.
Best of luck with getting it fixed but after seeing whats inside your timing cover id just get a brand new motor because that thing is dirtier than a alcoholic priest in in a whorehouse.
Though ill never not find the plumbing pipe cooling system funny.
It's all good. I'll take a pic of the inside of one of those copper fittings and let you see for yourself.
Wow! Arnolds tractor oil?
That thing will run 5 deg. cooler once all the sludge is removed. Word of caution. My cooling system gauges read safe with the occasional spike in temp when I forgot to switch on my fans in stop and go traffic. Ended up cooking my oil as the oil temps were hotter than my water temps when they spiked. Cooked the viscosity enhancers out of the oil. Caused a drop in oil pressure. Castrol GTX. The bike racers call it Castrol brown. They can cook the oil in half a dozen laps. Turns the inside of your engine brown.
I think Stephen nailed it in his response. I remember the Pennzoil Sludge as well. Oil temps ran a little high because all the fasteners around the oilpump were abnormally tight. You can see the external oil cooler they used to aid with oil temps. It's the piece that the oil filter screws onto. Notice that it is caked in sludge. That can't help. I got it tore down last nite and am cleaning parts and the garage now. I'll post pic's later but the head gaskets "kind of" looked OK to my uninformed ass. And they are the layer steel type. Maybe this is why they usually don't suffer these type failures. Got to get back in the garage but I'll post pic's later and you can see what I'm taliking about Rick.
Wow! Arnolds tractor oil?
That thing will run 5 deg. cooler once all the sludge is removed. Word of caution. My cooling system gauges read safe with the occasional spike in temp when I forgot to switch on my fans in stop and go traffic. Ended up cooking my oil as the oil temps were hotter than my water temps when they spiked. Cooked the viscosity enhancers out of the oil. Caused a drop in oil pressure. Castrol GTX. The bike racers call it Castrol brown. They can cook the oil in half a dozen laps. Turns the inside of your engine brown.
Holy crap....I thought you powder coated that black at first Kent.
Yea, just as Stephen alluded to below and remember it pushed the heaviest station wagon Subaru made for ~180K.
Sheesh Kent I better finish mine up if you're gonna move this fast.
All that mess is probably your oil pump leaking a TINY bit at the seal, or an O-Ring, something like that. It's just Subaru RTV (use grey RTV) sealing it to the block. Doesn't last forever. The oil has nowhere to go since the timing chain cover is sealed. Just gets flung around by the chains and then baked, especially since the pump is kinda high up.
Wow the shop manual does a great job of describing break down/build up with color pics and stuff!
You are ahead of me. Mine isn't close to running again.
Those Subaru factory manuals are pure pleasure are they not?Poly mounts to the -4 mounting point are easy. I have a set made up, that I don't need anymore if you want them.
Or you just use https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Suspension-9-4101G-Universal-Mount/dp/B000CN9BZ0/ref=sr_1_10?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1465746866&sr=1-10&keywords=Energy+Suspension+Mount and build your own.
A couple pieces of steel your done, also work for the rear trans mounts.
I didn't know where to but those when I made mine so I just used the stock Suby mounts. My main concern was that I would forget where I bought any non-Oem part.
Have you set a 1st run date yet Stephen??? 
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 12 2016, 10:29 PM
OK, this is what I was referring to when I said the head gaskets "kind of" looked OK.
But is this normal? This small area appears to be "DE-lamenating" compared to the rest of the gasket. And this area is dead straight above the exhaust outlet on the left head.
Carnage
Some's pic showing the condition of 3 copper "plumbing fittings" after almost 2 years 10 mo's in service. As you can see, no apparent damage from electrolysis. 
Posted by: r_towle Jun 12 2016, 11:09 PM
See, water = corrosion, just sayin
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 17 2016, 10:26 PM
Well, I'm either a lucky SOB or I missed something. I dropped the heads at a new local machinist. He calls me after cleaning the heads & a leak down test and says they really don't need work unless I just wanted to spend some $$$. Two intake valves had 4% leak down and one exhaust valve had 9%. Resurfacing was < .003 and only on the end where there is a longish span.
Then is with the leak? I assumed it would have been head warpage so I went back to the head gasket shown above. In this pic as well as the one above you can see the 3 layers.
And this looks like the place it was leaking. Look on inside of the far left piece where my thumb is. You can see the white residue left where it leaked. But why didn't it leak between the adjacent layer? 
When I tried pull that layer apart it resisted so ran my knife blade in and separated that layer until I saw this bead of mastic as shown below. And the place it leaked is missing that sealant. 
What would cause the gasket sealant to be missing? This is where my thoughts are leading me. If I'm placing that system under a constant pressure greater than what they were intended to see then this might happen. Remember that engine originally had 2 inlets on the radiator for the 2 lines running off each head. That sounds like a system with excellent flow qualities and very, very low head pressure. I use the OEM (1.1 atm /16.16psi) radiator cap and it used to spit several ounces into a catch can before I moved up to a larger dual core radiator. So what did the pressure spike to in those time it did spit water? Or the times that the discharge line was capped off the first 1000 miles? Who 
knows? Given this I'm going to run 1.25 or 1.375 lines beneath the floor pans in hopes of reducing head pressure to an acceptable level. Awaiting gasket set now.
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jun 17 2016, 10:49 PM
Nope, nope and NO. I'm NOT going to comment at all. I really want to but I can see you have your hands full and won't have time to tell me to eff off. Sorry about the trouble Kent. I've had carb issues since RT66 but the damn airplane is taking all my time now.
Posted by: 914_teener Jun 17 2016, 10:59 PM
Subaru Effed up......that's the answer.
Posted by: DBCooper Jun 17 2016, 11:21 PM
See, water = corrosion, just sayin
Subaru Effed up......that's the answer.
Kent, the delaminated part was the center cylinder? The discolored part on the gasket in the top photo? Any time it overheated? That's the usual cause of failed head gaskets, not pressure, but you usually also get warped heads, so it's a little odd. If so I'd say consider yourself lucky, put it back together with the Cometic gaskets, don't overheat it again and you should be good. If not then maybe there's something specific to that motor, so maybe post the photos in one of the Subaru forums. I don't think many of the folks here have much watercooled experience.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 18 2016, 09:06 AM
See, water = corrosion, just sayin
Subaru Effed up......that's the answer.
Kent, the delaminated part was the center cylinder? The discolored part on the gasket in the top photo? Any time it overheated? That's the usual cause of failed head gaskets, not pressure, but you usually also get warped heads, so it's a little odd. If so I'd say consider yourself lucky, put it back together with the Cometic gaskets, don't overheat it again and you should be good. If not then maybe there's something specific to that motor, so maybe post the photos in one of the Subaru forums. I don't think many of the folks here have much watercooled experience.
Yes, the center cylinder. Yes, it hit "H" once but just barely. Not enough to boil any water out though. Yeah, I'm going to throw it back together and holler Shit. We'll see what happens. May be a little experimenting here on my part but one can afford to do so with these engines as they are so affordable. I made an offer on another low mileage 3.0 to keep as a spare. This one is nearing 200K. The comments from the peanut gallery are cool. I own one with a 40 yo air cooled engine as well and I actually "do know" the difference between it vs. the Suby 6. I'm sure I don't have to tell you the difference though, Paul.
BTW, I am driving Whitey today when I visit another member. I'm sure that will motivate me to get Kugel on the road again; quickly.
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 18 2016, 09:20 AM
So...we're getting new hoses then ?
Hey get some of this for the oil pump. It's pretty good sh&t. Very similar to that Honda stuff. RTV with vibration resistance. 
You might have it already.
I agree with DB, switch to carbs. Or at least write a poem about it.
The engine has 185k and the last 20k were "spirited" miles. It's 14 years old. This is no big deal . Now it'll go another 200k+
Kent you may want to check with Bob on how he did his EZ30 setup. We could not get that car's temp above 175 even when we drove it hard. It was completely warmed up when we left his house. Just the connections to/from the engine and the water inlets is what you want to think about.
Posted by: DBCooper Jun 18 2016, 09:27 AM
Huh, now that you mention it I wonder how many T4 motors have gone 200K miles without having the heads off. Anybody know of any?
Yeah, I bought another WRX engine as a spare too. Couldn't pass it up, 49K miles (I saw the odometer) and 230 horsepower for six hundred bucks? How can you go wrong?
Oh, that's right, the corrosion. Crap, I forgot, we're all gonna die! [Hi Rich!! ]
Posted by: 914forme Jun 19 2016, 08:29 AM
I didn't know where to but those when I made mine so I just used the stock Suby mounts. My main concern was that I would forget where I bought any non-Oem part.
Have you set a 1st run date yet Stephen??? I long way off.
Come heel or high water it will be on or before April 12th, 2017. I would love to be driving the car by then, but first fire off might not be a bad goal.
Posted by: OU812 Jun 19 2016, 10:41 AM
Well, I'm either a lucky SOB or I missed something. I dropped the heads at a new local machinist. He calls me after cleaning the heads & a leak down test and says they really don't need work unless I just wanted to spend some $$$. Two intake valves had 4% leak down and one exhaust valve had 9%. Resurfacing was < .003 and only on the end where there is a longish span.
Then
is with the leak? I assumed it would have been head warpage so I went back to the head gasket shown above. In this pic as well as the one above you can see the 3 layers. And this looks like the place it was leaking. Look on inside of the far left piece where my thumb is. You can see the white residue left where it leaked. But why didn't it leak between the adjacent layer?
When I tried pull that layer apart it resisted so ran my knife blade in and separated that layer until I saw this bead of mastic as shown below. And the place it leaked is missing that sealant.
What would cause the gasket sealant to be missing? This is where my thoughts are leading me. If I'm placing that system under a constant pressure greater than what they were intended to see then this might happen. Remember that engine originally had 2 inlets on the radiator for the 2 lines running off each head. That sounds like a system with excellent flow qualities and very, very low head pressure. I use the OEM (1.1 atm /16.16psi) radiator cap and it used to spit several ounces into a catch can before I moved up to a larger dual core radiator. So what did the pressure spike to in those time it did spit water? Or the times that the discharge line was capped off the first 1000 miles?
Who knows? Given this I'm going to run 1.25 or 1.375 lines beneath the floor pans in hopes of reducing head pressure to an acceptable level. Awaiting gasket set now.If both of the decks/ surfaces are dead nuts flat (head to block mating surfaces) you may have had a defective head gasket in there from the get go. If that way from the fact then Subaru did eff up.
Posted by: DBCooper Jun 19 2016, 10:53 AM
In the first 100K miles, sure, after 150K miles probably not, but coming up on 200K miles? Hard to see that as a Subaru "eff up," especially for a five hundred dollar (or whatever) used engine when you don't know its history. Again, as a point of reference, are there a lot of untouched 100K mile plus aircooled engines out there? So is that a Volkswagen "eff up"?
Posted by: OU812 Jun 19 2016, 11:51 AM
In the first 100K miles, sure, after 150K miles probably not, but coming up on 200K miles? Hard to see that as a Subaru "eff up," especially for a five hundred dollar (or whatever) used engine when you don't know its history. Again, as a point of reference, are there a lot of untouched 100K mile plus aircooled engines out there? So is that a Volkswagen "eff up"?
No .....I just know that while uncommon, there are defects in these type of gaskets from time to time. Just thought that it may have caused the issue that was being discussed.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 19 2016, 12:23 PM
So...we're getting new hoses then
?Hey get some of this for the oil pump. It's pretty good sh&t. Very similar to that Honda stuff. RTV with vibration resistance.
You might have it already.
I agree with DB, switch to carbs. Or at least write a poem about it.
The engine has 185k and the last 20k were "spirited" miles. It's 14 years old. This is no big deal
. Now it'll go another 200k+Kent you may want to check with Bob on how he did his EZ30 setup. We could not get that car's temp above 175 even when we drove it hard. It was completely warmed up when we left his house. Just the connections to/from the engine and the water inlets is what you want to think about.
I just start began searching for SS pipe last night. I was thinking of hard piping it beneath the pan then rubber on the engine & radiator ends. Still playing with the idea. Give me a week to decide, Chris. The manual calls for triple bond!
Is this better stuff? I read a thread that mentioned the water pump on an EZ is good for 400K + . Since I installed the new cooling system the fans haven't kicked on and the gage stays dead nuts in the middle. DB knows I'm not going carbs. No (know) need.
Posted by: DBCooper Jun 19 2016, 12:56 PM
It's true carbs would be pretty interesting but we don't care about them so much, really just want to hear you rhyme.
Posted by: Andyrew Jun 19 2016, 01:05 PM
Wow that sludge issue is Crazy. Those multi layered gaskets just do that, you'll see that with the new ones. The seal is the pressure from being tightened down.
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 19 2016, 07:45 PM
I just start began searching for SS pipe last night. I was thinking of hard piping it beneath the pan then rubber on the engine & radiator ends. Still playing with the idea. Give me a week to decide, Chris. The manual calls for triple bond!
Is this better stuff? I read a thread that mentioned the water pump on an EZ is good for 400K + . Since I installed the new cooling system the fans haven't kicked on and the gage stays dead nuts in the middle. DB knows I'm not going carbs. No (know) need. Yeah you can definitely hard pipe it. Check out the phoenixhobbies build:
http://phoenixhobbies.com/html/cooling.html
Nicest setup I've ever seen under the car like that. I think he is Phoenix-MN on the BBS here.
I'm good either way. Not really in a hurry to re-do mine but will call you this week just to see what's up. I was kinda maybe thinking hard lines too (Why didn't they tell us these are really never done
?)You SHOULD NOT need a new oil pump. Just re-seal it. Permatex Ultra Gray is very similar to the Subaru stuff, but use what you think is right. Yours is a LOT harder to redo if you get a leak so $40 for a tube might be worth it.
Yeah and we're messing with you on the carbs thing. Now a single HUGE carb....
...that might be something...
Posted by: 914forme Jun 19 2016, 07:59 PM
Here you go
Posted by: 914forme Jun 20 2016, 04:26 PM
But you could also use Loctite 518 which is anaerobic sealer, so it cures with the absence of air. = Between machined surfaces. Case halves, transmission halves, oil pump to engine etc.... have a tube on order as I normally keep yamabond around, It is convent stop for me. Amazon is even more convent. And I am not tempted to by a motorcycle.
Stuff keeps in a tube much longer than Ultra-gray.
Or any of the Jap brand XXXX-bond stuff. So you have Fujibond, Hondabond, yamabond, etc..... Lets rebrand the same stuff 100 times and go from there. BTW, VW has the same stuff also, so I am sure Porsche does as well, more than likely have the four rings logo on it. Same stuff you get for $1000 a tube to seal you Lambo
Posted by: Chris H. Jun 20 2016, 06:13 PM
That's a good point...the Permatex stuff does harden quickly. I think the tube gets small holes in it after you squeeze it a few times. The gray is fine but I just checked my red...it's a brick.
OK I'm going out to the garage! Gotta get off my butt.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 21 2016, 08:00 PM
But you could also use Loctite 518 which is anaerobic sealer, so it cures with the absence of air. = Between machined surfaces. Case halves, transmission halves, oil pump to engine etc.... have a tube on order as I normally keep yamabond around, It is convent stop for me. Amazon is even more convent. And I am not tempted to by a motorcycle.
Stuff keeps in a tube much longer than Ultra-gray.
Or any of the Jap brand XXXX-bond stuff. So you have Fujibond, Hondabond, yamabond, etc..... Lets rebrand the same stuff 100 times and go from there. BTW, VW has the same stuff also, so I am sure Porsche does as well, more than likely have the four rings logo on it. Same stuff you get for $1000 a tube to seal you Lambo
I think your on to something with the re-branding thought, Stephen. I wonder if the "grey" agent Fuji, Honda or Triple Bond, is the same as the German product "Dirko". It lists the same sealing qualities. I have the locktite stuff as well but it might be too old to trust. Have you ever used any CURIL sealing products? It's another German product. I'm still waiting on my gasket set.
My order is "being processed".
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 25 2016, 07:29 PM
Finally! Gasket set arrived this PM. I need to go work at my daughters home in San Diego tomorrow but hopefully I can finish cleaning the case, chain guard, etc. and have it back in the car in 2 weeks.
Cleaned the nasty Oil Cooler
Started cleaning the case.
Posted by: 76-914 Jun 29 2016, 08:25 PM
Finished cleaning except the pan and that can wait till it's back in the car. It's difficult to access so close to the ground. My OCD kicked in when I saw the deposits in the water passageway's.
A before n after pose of the sacrificial 1/2" fitting brush. The trick is to clean the wider aeas 1st then go small because the brush won't expand once it's collapsed.
Got about 99% of it. My water temps were fine but this is better. 
The wear isn't bad either. Never did use oil and I can still see the cross hatching from the hone. Doesn't show in the pic.
Finished cleaning the top half of the case.
Got it ready to hang the heads back on.
Posted by: 76-914 Jul 7 2016, 07:18 PM
Since I have to wait a few days for 6ea 8mm allen bolts and a rubber hose kit I might as well post where it's at for now. A little cleaner than the last time you saw it.
A pic of the rear chain cover before it was re-installed.
The right chain still has slack in it as shown by the green arrow. That's because I hadn't pulled the pin on the tensioner, circled in red, when these pic's were taken. Look close you can see the metal wire used as a pin.
And a couple all chained out and indexed. Once I receive those 4 bolts the front cover can be re-installed then the engine can go back in. 
Posted by: 914forme Jul 8 2016, 01:39 PM
The right chain still has slack in it as shown by the green arrow. That's because I hadn't pulled the pin on the tensioner, circled in red, when these pic's were taken. Look close you can see the metal wire used as a pin.
You need a couple of tags like these for your tensioner pins
Posted by: 76-914 Jul 8 2016, 02:04 PM
Hah! I flew w/o one of those for years until one day I took my daughter up and noticed my airspeed was 0. I was flying off a 1600' grass strip with a 50' tree on one end. Needless to say I landed at a large airport a few miles away and cleaned the mud daubers nest off my pitot tube. After that I bought one.
Posted by: Chris H. Jul 8 2016, 04:42 PM
Wow that thing is clean. You're just about ready to roll again.
Posted by: 76-914 Jul 16 2016, 03:34 PM
It's back together. Is it healed? We'll see in a couple of weeks. If I have problems I'll slap another engine in it and be done with it. It was a maize at first but I got to know the engine which is a plus. I want to pass on a few things I found. The best fix for blown head gaskets is, as others mentioned Cometic gaskets and head studs. ARP sells kits with both the Cometic gaskets and studs for many engines. The EZ30 isn't one of them. Kits are available for all of the 2, 2.2 & 2.5's. I guess one could buy 2 kits for a 2.5 and have left over parts but at $400 a kit I'll pass. The advantage of of the head studs is they allow you to increase the torque to about 100 ft lb's. I'm guessing they are around 80 now but I'm not sure. They head "bolts" are tightened to "X" ft lb's then and additional 90 or 45 degrees, depending upon which bolt. Also, I got a quote from Subaru for all the little hose's, hose 90's, etc on the EZ30; >$400. Buying generic Gates 90's and hose it was < $80. I'm going thru my electrical again but will post that in my conversion thread. 
Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 17 2016, 08:57 AM
Admerable skills. Good work. When do you plan on coming to Tacoma?
Posted by: 76-914 Jul 25 2016, 03:19 PM
Got the engine back in Sunday and she fired right up. I still have the issue that precluded the engine pull which is a fuel starvation issue. It falls on its face under acceleration. Ordered a fuel pump last nite. It runs great except the stalls but when I put it on the rack I found an oil leak on the rear chain guard. I believe I didn't use enough sealant but we shall see. Given my prevailing piss poor attitude I ordered another engine. I'll throw that sucker in and take my time with the sealant when I pull old number one down again. I want to keep it in waiting.
Posted by: Chris H. Jul 25 2016, 07:37 PM
Fuel starvation? Weird. Did you buy a JDM?
Look what came today:
2 914 limos worth:
Just boxed your half up. Should get it to Fed Ex tomorrow. 
Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 25 2016, 08:04 PM
Got the engine back in Sunday and she fired right up. I still have the issue that precluded the engine pull which is a fuel starvation issue. It falls on its face under acceleration. Ordered a fuel pump last nite. It runs great except the stalls but when I put it on the rack I found an oil leak on the rear chain guard.
I believe I didn't use enough sealant but we shall see. Given my prevailing piss poor attitude I ordered another engine. I'll throw that sucker in and take my time with the sealant when I pull old number one down again. I want to keep it in waiting. If you get your fuel system figured out and it's running great, how big of a job is is to fix that leak again - another engine pull? Even if so, it doesn't seem to take too long for you. (I know time is compressed in your thread so 'not too long' is a relative term!)
But if you've got the rest of it buttoned up and running well... well, that's just me!
BTW, Mike Bellis just bought an AEM fuel pump and apparently loves it!
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jul 25 2016, 08:32 PM
Hah! I flew w/o one of those for years until one day I took my daughter up and noticed my airspeed was 0. I was flying off a 1600' grass strip with a 50' tree on one end. Needless to say I landed at a large airport a few miles away and cleaned the mud daubers nest off my pitot tube. After that I bought one.
First call on take-off... "set take off thrust". Second call is... "airspeeds alive".
Posted by: 76-914 Aug 11 2016, 03:59 PM
Got the engine back in Sunday and she fired right up. I still have the issue that precluded the engine pull which is a fuel starvation issue. It falls on its face under acceleration. Ordered a fuel pump last nite. It runs great except the stalls but when I put it on the rack I found an oil leak on the rear chain guard.
I believe I didn't use enough sealant but we shall see. Given my prevailing piss poor attitude I ordered another engine. I'll throw that sucker in and take my time with the sealant when I pull old number one down again. I want to keep it in waiting. If you get your fuel system figured out and it's running great, how big of a job is is to fix that leak again - another engine pull? Even if so, it doesn't seem to take too long for you. (I know time is compressed in your thread so 'not too long' is a relative term!)
But if you've got the rest of it buttoned up and running well... well, that's just me!
BTW, Mike Bellis just bought an AEM fuel pump and apparently loves it!
I R&R it w/ a stock Suby pump and it is working fine, thus far. If it burns out within 24 mo's I will go that route.
Hah! I flew w/o one of those for years until one day I took my daughter up and noticed my airspeed was 0. I was flying off a 1600' grass strip with a 50' tree on one end. Needless to say I landed at a large airport a few miles away and cleaned the mud daubers nest off my pitot tube. After that I bought one.
First call on take-off... "set take off thrust". Second call is... "airspeeds alive".
Round 2 - Took time away from the project these past several days to attend to, shall we say, life. No sense in whining about problems, right? With that said I'll move along. The newer engine is in and running but not w/o a hitch or 3.
I forgot to release the Subaru "pull type" throw out bearing so I lost a few hours reacquainting myself. . The alternator had a bad bearing so I used the one off the other engine. I used the smaller AC compressor that came with the engine but I will need to change the size of my suction line as well now. And as it turns out, the TPS from either engine works fine although they have different part #'s. When it first fired off it belched an orange-ish cloud and settled in with a rpm of ~1200. So I switched the TPS back to the one that came with it and tried again. This time the idle was ~2800rpm.
. After I cleaned out my pants I settled down enough to find that I had not reconnected the TPS plug so the ECU never saw it. After I reconnected the TPS plug the idle returned to 1200rpm so no difference. After 2-3 minutes of idling it began to hunt. Now what? I'm hovering over the engine when I felt the tire spin against my leg. Lowered the lift enough for the rear tires to make contact with the concrete and it stopped. My take on this is that I am running the USDM ECU which only support an automatic so the VSS sender on my transmission works BUT it's looking for some torque values that the 5 speed manual trans isn't sending. It compensates by raising the idle a bit when run @ < 10mph. I figured that I'll drive with the high idle until I figure it out. My previous experiences w/ DJet had trained me in the fine art of driving with high idle syndrome. So, I hop in and get about 300 yds down the road and it starts with that hunting 
again but this time with vigor. 
Now I'm ready to kill something. I resigned myself to re-installing good ol' number 1 but decided I'll drive the piss out this thing until I get the other one back together and installed. This is where it gets weird. I've developed a habit of closely monitoring the tach on the upper end so that I can avoid the hard stall that comes at 6600rpm indicated. I say indicated because I am running the VDO Interrogator Tach. The new engine hits 7000rpm indicated before I shift. I didn't want to run past 7000rpm, either. Odd that with the same ECU the new engine rev's higher. This however stumps me. After the 3rd or 4th hard pull the engine stopped hunting and the idle returned to 500-550rpm. For now, I'm going to assume that I had a presence along for the ride and he put a SLITS tune on it's ass. I have no other explanation. When the engine was out I cleaned up the wiring and labeled everything. I still need to draw a proper schematic that represents the cars current (NPI) wiring layout.
Now that I have the other engine on a stand I'll take my time sealing it up and keep it as a spare.
I also took the opportunity to paint my cradle as it had been sporting primer these past two years. I decided to strip it down to bare metal and inspect for cracks before I blindly threw a few coats of paint on it. I used PVC purple primer instead of Magnaflux. It works pretty well, is cheaper and can be used for plumbing chores later.
And here sits the newer drive train awaiting it's new home.
Posted by: 76-914 Aug 27 2016, 06:43 PM
I began to reassemble (again ) the timing chain enclosure on the original 3.0. There is the front and rear halves. Last time it leaked badly at the rear cover and I suspect that I might have rubbed some of the sealant off before making contact. So this time I decided to give myself a fighting chance. Bought a meter of 6mm x 1.0 threaded rod and cut into 4 pieces to make a jig. The back half slid into place evenly and the rods were removes as they were replaced by bolts
Back half bolted in placed and torqued. Just need to install cam gears, chain, tensioners/guides, oil pump and water pump. After that the rods will go back on the outer row of bolt holes to be used as a jig for the front cover. If it leaks this time I'll throw it in the trash.
Posted by: Chris H. Aug 27 2016, 07:31 PM
Hey mail it to me if you're gonna throw it in the trash. I'll send you a label man !
I think you got it this time. Maybe the sludge was keeping it sealed up.
BTW RE: the towing thread...I was wondering...you think your fuel pressure regulator is OK? I don't know how it's set up on that motor. Mine is on the fuel rail. Did you transfer yours from the other engine? Might be worth checking. Two pumps in a couple months is weird.
Posted by: 76-914 Aug 28 2016, 09:33 AM
Hey mail it to me if you're gonna throw it in the trash. I'll send you a label man
! I think you got it this time. Maybe the sludge was keeping it sealed up.
BTW RE: the towing thread...I was wondering...you think your fuel pressure regulator is OK? I don't know how it's set up on that motor. Mine is on the fuel rail. Did you transfer yours from the other engine? Might be worth checking. Two pumps in a couple months is weird.
It's a possibility. I thought I'd check the return line after this one is installed. It shouldn't be passing too much fuel when in use. If it is I'd suspect the regulator. I forgot to mention that I sprung for the "real deal" Three Bond sealant. Yes it is a huge tube but IMHO, well worth it. The difference is obvious when compared to the cheaper Permatex. It flows much better which is a BIG deal if you've ever resealed these cover halves. I'll probably put the rest together today. As soon as I shake the Cobwebs out of my head this AM. I drank a little at Ron's Friends & Family send off.
.
Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 28 2016, 01:37 PM
I had never realized that the battery had to be relocated too. I stared at that a bit.
Posted by: 76-914 Aug 28 2016, 01:59 PM
I had never realized that the battery had to be relocated too. I stared at that a bit.
Sort of Kev; it was relocated to repurpose the Subaru batt harness. The relay board was 86'd and the new batt tray was build upon the old relay board support arms. Hey Kevin, don't know if you read my post about the JDM install. On mine, nothing had to be switched or changed over. Plug n play. Should make it a simple switch out for you.
Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 28 2016, 02:11 PM
I haven't given up yet. I don't want to be a new 'pest' on a Subaru forum. For a bit more money I'd rather a 6 like yours. Then there's freight. I don't want to hijack the thread.
Posted by: Chris H. Aug 28 2016, 07:46 PM
As soon as I shake the Cobwebs out of my head this AM. I drank a little at Ron's Friends & Family send off.
. Wait...you guys DRANK at Ron's memorial
???? Noooooo..... Yeah you need to run those hoses man! You won't believe the difference.
Hey Kevin needs some help. Have you ever seen how they treat newbies on the some of the Subie forums???? Ugh. We can't have that. I might search Outback swaps and see what has been done. Anything but the 2.5 DOHC and you're into the wiring, so might as well do something better and fun.
So choices seem to be:
- another 2.5 DOHC (up to 1999 I think) either JDM or other
- EZ30D
- Sell the car and find another one.
I'll check around.
Posted by: 76-914 Aug 30 2016, 08:34 PM
Whew! That was a blast. Not! 
But it's behind me now and I learned a few things along the way. I filled it with oil tonite and NO leaks. 
The threaded rod was the ticket. Heres a few shots of the front cover being installed.
Posted by: 76-914 Dec 5 2016, 03:48 PM
Well, after my last post I found that I had NOT fixed all the oil leaks. When I reassembled the heads, cams and chain covers the first time I had a small leak on the right cam tower that I didn't see because of the massive leaks between the front and rear chain covers. I didn't have any leaks on the chain cover after the 2nd time I reassembled it but after a few days the small leak appeared on the oil filter housing. I Shit in my Shoes and said it, I'll get it later. A few months passed and I finally got off my ass and pulled the chain covers off again. This exposed the cam tower which I removed cleaned and resealed with the three bond sealant. It's a pain in the 
to remove and clean the sealer but several hours later it was back together. I put the oil back in it yesterday and no leaks. Geez, 3 times to get it right but it's done. I wanted to wait until I was sure before I posted "NO Leaks" again.
Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 5 2016, 04:03 PM
Great Kent!
Btw chris, I opted for choice #3. A guy knocked on my door. I told him what was wrong. He had a 'guy' that could fix it cheaply. Sold! 4 days later he came knocking again looking for a do over. "It's yours now. the sale was reported to department of licensing after you drove out of the driveway.".
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