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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ steel or fiberglass gt fender flars
Posted by: stevenhaas Apr 9 2005, 01:30 PM
I just bought my first 914 and it just showed up this morning from the west coast. So needless to say, I’m new to the board and the car…. My first order of business is to start collecting parts needed to begin body work. This leads me to my question:
Steel GT fenders VS Fiberglass.
Has anyone used fiberglass fenders on their street cars??? Have they cracked??? Have they held up to the true test of time??? Or should I save up and get the steel ones??
Thanks for any feedback!
Posted by: Brando Apr 9 2005, 01:34 PM
What are your intentions with the car? If you're wanting to track it then going with fiberglass would be better... shave some weight if you do complete F/G fenders. If it's just a daily driver or for looks, thens teel shouldn't be a problem...
I haven't bought F/G or steel fenders from anyone so I'm not sure who your best bet is. Just like with all body work there's a chance you'll get fenders that need a lot of work to fit right because of tool marks, lots of scrap/flashing left... Don't know for sure though.
Posted by: bondo Apr 9 2005, 01:35 PM
STEEL! Every fiberglass flared car I've seen had some visible blemish or crack. Go steel and butt weld it. You won't be sorry.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 9 2005, 01:57 PM
I've had both...
Depends on what you want in the end. If you want to keep a really pristine GT flared car then steel would be a worthy investment. The new steel flares out there are a good deal. Check Pelican Parts.
If the glass work has been done properly then they should last a good long time. Like any job worth doing, it's all in the prep work. You "must" grind the adhesion area down to bare metal on the top and the bottom of the fender. You need to lay-up cloth behind and use Vette-Bond to mate them to the fender. Cover the top coat with a product called Mar-Glass. Fillers have come a LONG way recently. Can they crack? Yup... but if done right I don't see why they would have to.
Budget and purpose. If you've got the dough, go steel. It will require a lot more than just the fender flares. A good welder will charge $900-$2,000.00 to put them on. I also agree with the Steel = Street and Glass = Race thing (sort of). Not for weight (cause the glass ones probably weight about the same) but if you're going to race and you might be banging into things (like 911's that won't get out of the way), then glass is an easy weekend repair.
Posted by: SirAndy Apr 9 2005, 02:39 PM
i got FG flares on my car. haven't cracked in 15+ years. if done right they'll last ...
Andy
Posted by: Jeroen Apr 9 2005, 05:39 PM
depends on the quality of the flares and bonding
I had f/g flares on my VW Scirocco and they were so strong, I could lift the car from the fenderlip 
Posted by: don9146 Apr 9 2005, 07:59 PM
| QUOTE (Jeroen @ Apr 9 2005, 06:39 PM) |
| depends on the quality of the flares and bonding I had f/g flares on my VW Scirocco and they were so strong, I could lift the car from the fenderlip |
It also depends on how sound the car is structurally, which I would assume is THE reason Andy's hasn't cracked yet. A Scirocco will be MUCH structurally stronger in torsion and longitudinally when compared with a new 914, much less one that is 30 years old with unknown rust issues.
Body flex in a 914 will literally pull fibergalss flares from the car if the bond is weak or crack the flares if the bond is strong. On a street car, I would go with steel flares. On a race caar with a roll cage to stiffen the chassis and because of the wheel-to-wheel fender rubbing, I would go with fibergalss.
Posted by: Jeroen Apr 9 2005, 08:51 PM
if you have THAT much twisting on such a small area of the car, you have other things to worry about than cracked f/g
Posted by: don9146 Apr 9 2005, 10:10 PM
| QUOTE (Jeroen @ Apr 9 2005, 09:51 PM) |
| if you have THAT much twisting on such a small area of the car, you have other things to worry about than cracked f/g |
Before the rusted longitudinals were fixed on my car, the windsheild would rattle every time I crossed railroad tracks! After it was fixed (and the Brad Mauyer stiffening kit installed), there is still cowl shake, but not so much it is scary.
With no roof, the longitudinals are the ONLY part of the car that resist torsional flex (i.e. chassis twisting). And with this car being drawn-up before CAD/CAM was available, it probably doesn't have one-tenth the resistance of a modern convertible, much less a current car with a permanent roof. And this is with a stock suspension. If the car is modified with current performance tires and upgraded suspension components, the effects are multiplied.
So yes, chassis flex will cause the flares to separate.
Posted by: boxstr Apr 9 2005, 10:30 PM
I currently have three cars with flares. One steel flared car and two glass flared cars. I like the idea of steel, but I have to admit the glass flares look excellent, majority of that is the installation was done correctly.
Here is a pic of the six with glass flares, built by Dan Root.
CCLINFLAREFORFASHION
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Posted by: ! Apr 9 2005, 10:32 PM
Looks like a slab sided 1.8 to me.... 
Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 9 2005, 10:33 PM
| QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 9 2005, 09:32 PM) |
| Looks like a slab sided 1.8 to me.... |
lol... he changed the pic.
Posted by: boxstr Apr 9 2005, 10:35 PM
Steel flared car.
CCLINFLAREME
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Posted by: ! Apr 9 2005, 10:35 PM
Yeah....well. I was talking about Craig.....
CCLWITHFLATSIDES
Posted by: boxstr Apr 9 2005, 10:36 PM
Looked like it to me, not anymore.
CCLINQUICKFLARES
Posted by: boxstr Apr 9 2005, 10:40 PM
This is a V8 with glass flares, front flare recently installed by Dan Root. Another excellnt job.
CCLINBULGINGTHIGHS
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Posted by: ! Apr 9 2005, 10:42 PM
Bulgey is gud.... 
Posted by: Jeroen Apr 10 2005, 10:52 AM
| QUOTE (don9146 @ Apr 10 2005, 05:10 AM) | ||
Before the rusted longitudinals were fixed on my car, the windsheild would rattle every time I crossed railroad tracks! After it was fixed (and the Brad Mauyer stiffening kit installed), there is still cowl shake, but not so much it is scary. With no roof, the longitudinals are the ONLY part of the car that resist torsional flex (i.e. chassis twisting). And with this car being drawn-up before CAD/CAM was available, it probably doesn't have one-tenth the resistance of a modern convertible, much less a current car with a permanent roof. And this is with a stock suspension. If the car is modified with current performance tires and upgraded suspension components, the effects are multiplied. So yes, chassis flex will cause the flares to separate. |
yes, a 914 chassis will twist
but to say that the f/g flares will crack because of that is a lot of
IMHOPosted by: BIGKAT_83 Apr 10 2005, 06:33 PM
Got to admit that the f/g flares will crack after time. Mine held great for the first 18years but started coming loose in one place 2 years ago and caused a hair line crack in the paint.
Maybe the bonding agents are better now than in 1984. I sure hope so. I would hate to have to redo it in 20 more years.
Bob
Posted by: don9146 Apr 10 2005, 07:18 PM
| QUOTE (Jeroen @ Apr 10 2005, 11:52 AM) | ||||
yes, a 914 chassis will twist but to say that the f/g flares will crack because of that is a lot of IMHO |
Can anyone think of another reason why the following scenario occurred:
A FG flared 914 owner's flares would separate from the body, so he used an aerospace glue to bond the flares to the car. The new adhesive worked great, but now that the flares will not separate from the car, the flares cracked. To me, that seems like an obvious problem with chassis flex.
I hope that I'm wrong and everyone with fiberglass flares has no issues, the owner of the car lives long and propers, the seed from his loins is fruitful in the belly of his woman, etc. I also promise that if anyone's fiberglass flares separate from their car or cracks I will not say "I told you so!" since I gave that phrase up in the 3rd grade.
Later,
Don
Posted by: stevenhaas Apr 11 2005, 05:36 PM
Well thank you all for responding!! I will save a few more pennies for the steel.
Posted by: SirAndy Apr 11 2005, 06:15 PM
| QUOTE (don9146 @ Apr 10 2005, 05:18 PM) |
| I hope that I'm wrong and everyone with fiberglass flares has no issues, the owner of the car lives long and propers, the seed from his loins is fruitful in the belly of his woman, etc. I also promise that if anyone's fiberglass flares separate from their car or cracks I will not say "I told you so!" since I gave that phrase up in the 3rd grade. |
my car had FG flares for some 15+ years. also has FG front and rear bumper and rockers that are molded to the body with BONDO ...
granted, i added a full rollcage to the car 3 years ago, so subtract that from the 15+ and the flares and bumpers and rockers lasted for 12+ years WITHOUT cracking in a perfectly normal, street driven 914 with all the usual body-roll and flex ...
no cracks what-so-ever except on one rocker where the support bracket had come lose and the rocker would vibrate ...
i don't think body-flex would cause the flares to come off, the twist motion of body flex is in the center of the car, close to where the front of the seat rails is located.
how that could possibly crack the fender flares is beyond me ...
i HAVE seen cracked flares, and usually they were due to tire rubbing or bad adhesive/bondo work.
my point was (and still is), if done right, FG flares work just fine for any car, street or track ...
Andy
Posted by: Jeroen Apr 11 2005, 06:27 PM
| QUOTE (SirAndy @ Apr 12 2005, 01:15 AM) |
| my point was (and still is), if done right, FG flares work just fine for any car, street or track ... |
Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 11 2005, 07:11 PM
Welcome to the club Steven
Where's the pictures of your new tub???
And congratulations on starting your first pissing match
Flares "always" garner this amount of passion. with the rest of the weirdos, done right glass is fine.
Posted by: SpecialK Apr 11 2005, 07:21 PM
| QUOTE (Jeroen @ Apr 11 2005, 04:27 PM) | ||
|
Posted by: don9146 Apr 11 2005, 08:44 PM
| QUOTE (SirAndy @ Apr 11 2005, 07:15 PM) | ||
my car had FG flares for some 15+ years. also has FG front and rear bumper and rockers that are molded to the body with BONDO ... granted, i added a full rollcage to the car 3 years ago, so subtract that from the 15+ and the flares and bumpers and rockers lasted for 12+ years WITHOUT cracking in a perfectly normal, street driven 914 with all the usual body-roll and flex ... no cracks what-so-ever except on one rocker where the support bracket had come lose and the rocker would vibrate ... i don't think body-flex would cause the flares to come off, the twist motion of body flex is in the center of the car, close to where the front of the seat rails is located. how that could possibly crack the fender flares is beyond me ... i HAVE seen cracked flares, and usually they were due to tire rubbing or bad adhesive/bondo work. my point was (and still is), if done right, FG flares work just fine for any car, street or track ... Andy |
It appears that anecdotal evidence from board members will outweigh my attempts at logical thinking. Sometime in the future, "you can't put fiberglass flares on a 914" may replace "you can't turbo a 914" as the next visionary has proved logical conceptions incorrect debate on the board...
Good luck with the project, no matter which way you go with the flares...
Posted by: mharrison Apr 11 2005, 08:52 PM
I can't believe that nobody else here is as big a smartass as me, so here goes.......
| QUOTE |
| Steel or fiberglass gt fender flares |
I agree, I would definitely use steel or fiberglass.
(Had to be said!)
That said, good luck with whatever you choose to use. Either way you have to admit they look AWESOME!!!!
Posted by: dan10101 Apr 11 2005, 09:08 PM
While we're on the subject. What would be the best filler to use that would 'flex' with the twisty little teener. 
Would that be the Mar-Glass mentioned below?
TIA,
Dan
| QUOTE |
| If the glass work has been done properly then they should last a good long time. Like any job worth doing, it's all in the prep work. You "must" grind the adhesion area down to bare metal on the top and the bottom of the fender. You need to lay-up cloth behind and use Vette-Bond to mate them to the fender. Cover the top coat with a product called Mar-Glass. Fillers have come a LONG way recently. Can they crack? Yup... but if done right I don't see why they would have to. |
Posted by: greg.treadway Apr 11 2005, 09:27 PM
I like steel, but have seen plenty of FG flares that look great! Either way, installation is the key.
Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 11 2005, 09:34 PM
I hate my glas flares. They look ok but because the car is Black they tend to show read thru. (on hot days you can see the glas mat thru the paint)
I've posted my comments several times before.
After 10 years of post curing, I think they are now a little more stable. If I had to do it over I would do them in steel.
Posted by: JOHNMAN Apr 11 2005, 09:55 PM
I've had steel flares on my car since 1984.
If it would have been fiberglass, I would have had to replace all four flares. Since they are steel, they can be body-worked with a hammer.
Both rear fenders were bent in half in an unfortunate skirmish in 1985, the left front was bent 5 years ago, and the right front was bent during my last track event last year. (The two front fenders were bent due to broken ball joints)
One should really consider replacing ball joints every few years......
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that steel can be beaten back into shape where fiberglass will rip, break, or shread.
My money will go with steel flares (either factory or AA) BTW, the AA flares are actually a better fit than the factory parts.
just my $0.02
Posted by: jgiroux67 Apr 11 2005, 10:09 PM
Ya and you can repair fiberglass pretty easily if it does crack. And if you get hit on the flare, whether it be steel or fiberglass, your gonna have to do some work and repaint so it realy doesnt matter what the material in that aspect.
Although if I had the money and another car I would go with steel just because it seems alot nicer and more like a factory built car.
My car currently currently has fiberglass flares, bumpers and rockers all molded together like Sir Andy's and I'm pretty confident in it's strenght, but just to be safe I gonna add something like Engmans stiffening kit.
Posted by: dcruiksh914 Oct 15 2005, 05:44 PM
Time to bring this thread back to life... 
This is a helpful discussion that I found looking for info on installation. I just got a set of FG flares for my next winter project. I have a couple of questions. 1, what is the best adhesive to use for the installation? And 2, what sixe wheel spacers will I need to get the best fit after I get the car back together? I have 7X15 cookie cutters.
Thanks! 
Posted by: SirAndy Oct 15 2005, 06:02 PM
| QUOTE (dcruiksh914 @ Oct 15 2005, 04:44 PM) |
| And 2, what sixe wheel spacers will I need to get the best fit after I get the car back together? I have 7X15 cookie cutters. |
i run 7" x 15 cookies with 225/50 tires.
i use 1 1/2" spacers in the back and 1 1/4" spacers in the front.
this makes the wheels fill out the flares nicely!
Andy
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Posted by: dcruiksh914 Oct 16 2005, 10:00 AM
| QUOTE (SirAndy @ Oct 15 2005, 04:02 PM) | ||
i run 7" x 15 cookies with 225/50 tires. i use 1 1/2" spacers in the back and 1 1/4" spacers in the front. this makes the wheels fill out the flares nicely! Andy |
Excellent! Thanks! Great looking car -- that's pretty much the look I'm going for on mine.
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Posted by: andys Oct 16 2005, 12:04 PM
| QUOTE (dcruiksh914 @ Oct 15 2005, 03:44 PM) |
| Time to bring this thread back to life... This is a helpful discussion that I found looking for info on installation. I just got a set of FG flares for my next winter project. I have a couple of questions. 1, what is the best adhesive to use for the installation? Thanks! |
I'm about ready to install my F'glass flares as well. I was told by a shop that does a lot of F'glass to metal bonding, that they use good old JB Weld........Just for bonding, not filling. They've been using it for years without issue. Apparently, you can buy it in larger containers from industrial supply vendors, and it's cost is quite a bit less than the current crop of adhesive type products.
Andys
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