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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Welding new bellhousing

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 12 2005, 08:37 PM

Is it possible to weld a new or different bellhousing on a transmission?
And if so how?

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 12 2005, 08:42 PM

It would make a great video... pretty colors and lots fire and thick smoke. But don't try it inside and don't add water. I think the case is magnisium. Just make an adapter plate.

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 12 2005, 08:57 PM

I keep finding these broken g50's....so in these cases an adapter is not even possible.

So I take it magnesium is not possible to weld?

Posted by: riverman Apr 12 2005, 09:12 PM

It is possible to weld magnesium. Powdered magnesium or magnesium shavings burn quite nicely, but solid magnesium is relatively inflammable.

Welding magnesium is difficult because it has a low melting point and distorts easily (sort of like aluminum, but more so), but with the proper filler material, the right equipment, and loads of experience it can be done. Check around, maybe you can find someone willing to give it a go.

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 12 2005, 09:37 PM

right on....so it sounds like it is possible? How critical is the alignment issue. Is it fairly straight forward to get it aligned or a big pain in the a**?

Posted by: lapuwali Apr 12 2005, 10:34 PM

QUOTE (riverman @ Apr 12 2005, 07:12 PM)
It is possible to weld magnesium. Powdered magnesium or magnesium shavings burn quite nicely, but solid magnesium is relatively inflammable.

Welding magnesium is difficult because it has a low melting point and distorts easily (sort of like aluminum, but more so), but with the proper filler material, the right equipment, and loads of experience it can be done. Check around, maybe you can find someone willing to give it a go.

Point one: inflammable = flammable. English doesn't make much sense there. The word you want is non-flammable.

Point two: I believe the G50 uses an aluminum case.

Point three: welding any casting out of any material is not for the faint hearted or those of less than stellar skills.

On the "broken" G50s, are you saying the bellhousing is broken? If so, I wonder if a new bellhousing could be made up to adapt it do a 901/915 mount. Bellhousings can be bolted on , and don't have to be made out of a casting. Lots of work, but a G50 might be worth the effort for some conversions.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Apr 13 2005, 08:48 AM

G50s use the same bolt pattern as all the older trannies, so making an adapter or changing the bell housing is unnecessary. The Cap'n

Posted by: Mueller Apr 13 2005, 09:12 AM

QUOTE (86motoman @ Apr 12 2005, 07:57 PM)
I keep finding these broken g50's....so in these cases an adapter is not even possible.

So I take it magnesium is not possible to weld?

how broken are the cases???

as long as you have 50% or so of the original mating surface, it seems like it wouldn't be too hard to mount the adapter plate and repair the case.....

as with most everything..."anything" is possible, but not normally by the average person......

"if you have ask" :

yes, it can be done, but it's going to be expensive since it sounds like you'd have to send it off to a shop...figure $85 an hour average shop time, minimum 5 hours, possible 10+ hours not including tooling or fixture costs.....now if you have a buddy with the equipment and that is talented, you could be in luck......

how much "cheaper" are these broken transmissions you are finding??

unless they are 50% or more off the normal price, I'd have to say it's not worth attempting

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 13 2005, 01:32 PM

This particular tranny the bellhousing is gone...like busted off. I am concerned where to weld a new bellhousing to the old transmission.

Also, I would like to know the pros and cons of doing this. For example, would I be able to use a chevy flywheel and starter? Would I then not be able to find a clutch to fit the chevy flywheel and porsche transaxle spline? So many questions so little time.

I called a machine shop in town. He batted around the idea of making something to bolt a chevy bellhousing to the transaxle. Just an idea.

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 13 2005, 01:37 PM

As far as the price goes...they are between $700 and $1100 after I get it shipped. I figure by the time I get it fixed I would have somewhere between $1500 and $2000. With some looking you can find used g50's for $1500 - $2500;therefore, I think the deciding factors would be the advantages and disadvantages of having a chevy bellhousing on the tranny. Do you have any thoughts?

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 13 2005, 01:48 PM

Good question.

I personally beleive you could do a bolt on bellhousing much like they do with the aftermarket 2 speed powerglides for Mopar/Ford applications.

The issue with the G-50: Running it mid-engine is a pain in the arse. It has to be run upside down. Now you have compounded your issues.

Check into a company called TCI. I'm trying to find the place that cast the different bolt on bellhousings. Starts with a A..

B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 13 2005, 01:55 PM

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about:

This one is from ATI. Simple bolt on solution.

If drag racers can launch 2500lb 1000hp door slammers with this... you can build a street car with it.

B

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 13 2005, 02:00 PM

QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 13 2005, 11:48 AM)

I personally beleive you could do a bolt on bellhousing much like they do with the aftermarket 2 speed powerglides for Mopar/Ford applications.

Yah...that pic is perfect. Now I just need to match the area on the tranny to get it to align

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 13 2005, 02:03 PM

Here is a pic of the tranny.

Attached image(s)

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Apr 13 2005, 02:13 PM

Here is a shorter one.....

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 13 2005, 02:38 PM

Basically the pic I showed will need a flat surface to mate to. Have the case machine flat.

I *think* that the lower pic from Bigkat is a "BOP" adapter for the stock Chevy glide bellhousing. "BOP" Buick/Olds/Pontiac. The pic I showed bolts to the pump face on the glide.

B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 13 2005, 02:45 PM

I have thought about this setup in the past:

Use a stock Chevy flywheel and clutch setup with a custom clutch disc splined for the G50 input shaft.

A conversion company long gone called "Jaidecar" did this with 915's in the past. They had a small internal/external splined adapter that mated the stock Chevy disc to the 915 splines. Maybe they couldnt get the disc close enough to the input shaft. I dont recall. I have only seen two over my 17 year history with the 914's.

It can be done. Time/Money/Patience.

Oh.. FYI: I modified your pic. Another reason why I dislike 100megapixel camera's.. ha ha

B

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Apr 13 2005, 02:58 PM

The adapter I posted was for a SBC to a flathead ford V8 transmission adapter(still available) I looked into these trying to make a plate like the old Jaide setup.

Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: TimT Apr 13 2005, 02:58 PM

The G-50 case is aluminum

I went to buy a G-50 once, the seller said the bell housing had some damage.. it looked quite like the one pictured. I couldnt believe the a-hole couldnt be up front and tell me it was basically trash. OUCH, it takes some hit to break a tranny like that.

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 13 2005, 04:28 PM

QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 13 2005, 12:45 PM)

It can be done. Time/Money/Patience.

We have decided it can or has been done. Now the question is can I get it done reasonably.

Posted by: Brett W Apr 13 2005, 05:03 PM

I would really be concerned that the tranny itself has been damaged. It takes a lot of force to destroy a bell housing that bad. You need to pull the tranny apart and carefully inspect everything. You will have to take it apart to machine it or weld it anyways.

Anyways having a bolt on belhousing would be fabulous. We could then run all kinds of parts.

Alignment is critical. Tilton actually sells a tool to do this.

Attached image(s)

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 13 2005, 09:08 PM

That is cool!

Posted by: drew365 Apr 13 2005, 09:43 PM

QUOTE
Alignment is critical. Tilton actually sells a tool to do this.

Even the smallest deviation will give you clutch chatter when pulling away in 1st gear.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 13 2005, 10:42 PM

The Tilton setup is cool.. however.. you must run their little tiny 5.5 clutch package with it. Most of those bellhousings are designed for IMCA modified cars with dry sump systems (so they can get the engine really low in the chassis)

B

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 14 2005, 07:03 AM

QUOTE (86motoman @ Apr 13 2005, 12:03 PM)
Here is a pic of the tranny.

After looking at the photo and re-thinking the welding thing, yes that transaxle can be used. That case is aluminum and shows no sign of grease leaking from the area of damage. I would trim it up, make a fixture that mounts inplace of the "T" bearing and use it to square up a piece of aluminum plate. The plate could then be carefully welded to the trimmed case at a depth that would allow a bellhousing to be bolted up. Easy peasy.

BTW is this common? Can these trannys be purchased cheap?

Brad,

How do you run one mid engine style?

Does it require some kind of an oil pump if it's up side down?

Is there clearance under the trunk floor with the axle that way?

Posted by: 914Timo Apr 14 2005, 07:11 AM

Could the Boxter S 6 speed tranny modify the same way.......

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 14 2005, 07:20 AM

QUOTE (914Timo @ Apr 14 2005, 05:11 AM)
Could the Boxter S 6 speed tranny modify the same way.......

Why not? I don't know why I never thought about getting a busted tranny before. This is kinda cool.

That means you could run a full size chevy flywheel and clutch! No conversion parts.

Posted by: cdmcse Apr 14 2005, 08:06 AM

This one would be pretty easy to mount a bellhousing on, if it wasn't too long afterwards.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34208&item=4543261561&rd=1

(Not that I would pay that much for it)

Posted by: Brett W Apr 14 2005, 09:07 AM

QUOTE
The Tilton setup is cool.. however.. you must run their little tiny 5.5 clutch package with it. Most of those bellhousings are designed for IMCA modified cars with dry sump systems (so they can get the engine really low in the chassis)

Well if you are gonna do it might as well go all out. You can run their 7.25 in clutch as well. Lots of Winston Cup cars use these. There are pretty cheap if you buy them used.

SO you have to drop the clutch and hammer down from every red light. At least it will look good and sound nice.

To run the tranny upside down you will need a pump and some fittings. Just make a fitting to screw into the drain plug. Then build small manifold for multiple lines to exit from. Take each line to different points in the tranny and tap the case and srew in some fittings. Voila' you have a spraybar equipped tranny.

Posted by: airsix Apr 14 2005, 11:20 AM

Rich,
They Ultima builders use upside-down G-50's. Ultima sells a vent relocation kit for something like $200. They say that's all it takes.

-Ben

Posted by: 86motoman Apr 14 2005, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Apr 14 2005, 05:20 AM)

That means you could run a full size chevy flywheel and clutch! No conversion parts.

I apologize for taking so long to get back here....Uncle died and school...

I am still concerned about the clutch. How hard would it be to find a clutch that would work with the chevy flywheel and input spline of the g50?