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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Now it's my clutch...

Posted by: RustyWa Apr 13 2005, 11:44 PM

My poor car is putting me to the test this week. I'm driving around today and start heading up this large hill in third gear, when it's obvious that my clutch is slipping. I've adjusted the cable out before and essentially if my foot even gets close to the clutch pedal, the clutch slips. In fact I have to be mindful of my shoe laces since the weight of them seems to cause slippage.

I'm going to look at it once more tomorrow, but I think I'll have to bite the bullet and pull the tranny. And to think I was getting all gung ho upgrade my control arm & trailing arm bushings.

Looking at the Pelican site, they have a "Super Kit" for the low, low price of $387.75. Which includes the following:

New Pressure Plate
New 911 Clutch Disc
New Throw-out Bearing
New Pilot Bearing and Felt Ring
2 Throw-out Bearing Guide Clips
New Throw-out Fork Bushing
2 CV Joint Gaskets
2 Muffler Gaskets
New Flywheel O-Ring
New Flywheel Bolts
New Flywheel Metal Crush Gasket
Clutch Disc Alignment Tool
Flywheel/crankshaft seal not included - check yours first before ordering.

Is this overkill? Anything else needed?

Posted by: dinomium Apr 13 2005, 11:53 PM

while yer inthere... how is your clutch cable? Pay really close attention when unpacking the kit form PP, I didnt and missed the felt washer.
The cats a Pelican got me another, but I felt pretty lame.

Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 14 2005, 07:56 AM

Not a bad deal, but get the new rear main seal and install it since you are taking off the flywheel.

Geoff

Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 14 2005, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (dinomium @ Apr 14 2005, 12:53 AM)
while yer inthere... how is your clutch cable? Pay really close attention when unpacking the kit form PP, I didnt and missed the felt washer.
The cats a Pelican got me another, but I felt pretty lame.

I didn't know what the little plastic thimble looking thing was I realized after I already got it back together

luckily the one that was on there was in good shape... and I didn't throw the new one away...

I did it a little different though... I got a 6 spring clutch off ebay(new sachs clutch), and bought everything ELSE in the kit from pelican, and spent about $60 less... I had the flywheel done locally by a reputable VW machince place Wes recommended... they did the wheel for about $30 in less than an hour

Posted by: RustyWa Apr 14 2005, 10:26 AM

So is having the flywheel turned a must then? I was just checking out ebay...makes me a little nervous.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 14 2005, 10:32 AM

QUOTE (RustyWa @ Apr 14 2005, 11:26 AM)
So is having the flywheel turned a must then? I was just checking out ebay...makes me a little nervous.

I personally believe it is... if you see blue on the fly wheel, it needs turning IMO... and mine had blue all over in places...

Posted by: Eric Taylor Apr 14 2005, 12:46 PM

From my experience with the pelican kit it was worth it. They include all the stuff you need and a lot you never would have thought off. It makes it really nice to know the clutch was done right. As far turning the flywheel, I would take it off and take it to a machine shop and ask them what they think. Some times it is really obvious, and some times it's not. Usually they have wear groves from the old disc and do need to be turned or the new disc will slip, but it's hard to say without looking at it. Have fun taking the flywheel bolts off
Eric.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 14 2005, 01:00 PM

QUOTE (Eric Taylor @ Apr 14 2005, 01:46 PM)
From my experience with the pelican kit it was worth it. They include all the stuff you need and a lot you never would have thought off. It makes it really nice to know the clutch was done right. As far turning the flywheel, I would take it off and take it to a machine shop and ask them what they think. Some times it is really obvious, and some times it's not. Usually they have wear groves from the old disc and do need to be turned or the new disc will slip, but it's hard to say without looking at it. Have fun taking the flywheel bolts off
Eric.

the flywheel bolts AREN't THAT bad... just use a 2' break over bar and the are nothing!

Posted by: Eric Taylor Apr 14 2005, 04:39 PM

yeah, that's the way it went for me, but only AFTER I nearly broke my arm off!
Eric

Posted by: dinomium Apr 14 2005, 04:48 PM

flywheel locking thingy?? I just use an air wrech...
bhhhhhhhhhhhhrip
we need an air gun smilely

Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 14 2005, 05:05 PM

this is what I use...

Posted by: RustyWa Apr 14 2005, 10:47 PM

I was just wondering if an impact gun would be ok. I guess it is...excellent.

I adjusted the clutch out this afternoon, about 3-4 turns, and it still slips in 3rd gear, even on flat roads. I'm going to adjust it out some more just to make sure I didn't have it to tight. Otherwise, the tranny is coming out this weekend so I can see what I've got.

What's this end play junk I've been reading about? Should I check this before I remove the flywheel? I've got the correct dial indicator and mount to do this, I'm just confused at when to do it and how much needs to be installed.

Posted by: SpecialK Apr 14 2005, 11:04 PM

Okay, this might sound stupid [might...hell].

If your clutch is "sensitive" to the slightest clutch pedal pressure, wouldn't that indicate that your T/O bearing is already making some pretty good contact with the pressure plate, and you need to adjust it the other direction?

Posted by: RustyWa Apr 14 2005, 11:27 PM

QUOTE (Special_K @ Apr 14 2005, 09:04 PM)
If your clutch is "sensitive" to the slightest clutch pedal pressure, wouldn't that indicate that your T/O bearing is already making some pretty good contact with the pressure plate, and you need to adjust it the other direction?

Now I am slightly confused. Loosening the cable at the tranny should cause the T.O. bearing to move away from the pressure plate correct? My goal is to loosen up the cable to make sure I didn't have it adjusted to tightly which was causing the "sensitive" pedal.

Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 14 2005, 11:57 PM

You're , On the right track,

If that works ,but then you cant get in gear ,grind. It may be the clutch cable tube has pulled loose.

Any luck you wont be doing the clutch job.

Posted by: RustyWa Apr 16 2005, 04:03 PM

Well, got the tranny and clutch assembly removed from the car this morning. Not a bad job. I did have one little episode. The tranny wasn't balanced quite right on my floor jack and 2x4's and slid off hitting the concrete. I can't find any cracks anywhere, so hopefully everything will be fine.

The clutch, T.O. bearing & pressure plate are toast. The clutch disk was down to the rivets on the pressure plate side and was starting to dig into the flywheel bolts on the other side. The pressure plate has grooves on it's face and the fingers. The T.O. bearing also has some major grooves in it.

The flywheel intrigues me slightly. There is some grooves in it's face, but also what looks like machining marks. Since everyone likes photos, here you go...

T.O. bearing. (forgot to turn macro on)

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Posted by: RustyWa Apr 16 2005, 04:04 PM

Flywheel bolts

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Posted by: RustyWa Apr 16 2005, 04:04 PM

Flywheel off,

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Posted by: RustyWa Apr 16 2005, 04:05 PM

Pressure plate where flywheel bolts started rubbing.

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Posted by: RustyWa Apr 16 2005, 04:09 PM

Finally a close up of the grooves in the flywheel. Plus you can see the machining marks. Why would the clutch/flywheel wear so unevenly?? It didn't appear that it was into the rivets on this side, but they weren't far off.

If I get this resurfaced, is there anything special I need to do when I reinstall it?

Attached image(s)

Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 16 2005, 04:33 PM

Looks like some one resurfaced the flywheel . There is an "A" distance from clutch surface to bolting surface ."B" clutch surface to presureplate mounting surface.

The Person machined the clutch surface only, allowing
1.Clutch to rub bolt heads,
2. Not enough clamping pressure.Distance to great.

There is a spec I dont have it right now. Maybe it can be saved or buy new.

Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 16 2005, 06:27 PM

Both surfaces have to be machined plus you need to add a spacer under the pivot ball to make up for what you take off to keep stuff aligned.

Change that rear oil seal while you are in there and clean off everything. Check the oil galley plugs too and coat with a little red RTV to seal them.

Geoff

Posted by: RustyWa Apr 16 2005, 07:47 PM

The "A"s stamped on the flywheel and visable in my photo, are those stamped when a resurface is done?

How do you guys know it was resurfaced and only on the "A" side?

Will I have problems with the flywheel bolts? Do they need to be machined down?

I guess this all depends on if the shop tells me the flywheel is usable. If it is not usable, what would happen if I just scuffed up the surface and reused? The engine has at least 95k on it and surely would be the weak link.

Thanks

Posted by: sixnotfour Apr 16 2005, 08:12 PM

Minimum the top step has to be cut , I think its 22.5mm .what I called A . where the pressure palte bolts on to.
You could grind the tops of the bolt a little. or have the inner surface machined some.
Not the Best way

Or buy a new flywheel

The reference to A was not from the picture. It has been cut beacause of scallop machine marks.
factory have radial machine marks