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Posted by: crash914 Aug 29 2016, 06:39 PM

Here are a couple of pictures showing what the differences are between a stock type 1 oil pump and a modified for type 4 use one.

This pump is also plugged for full flow. don't do this if you don't have a full flow take off cover. You will destroy your engine..

about 1/8 inch needs to be removed from the snout of the pump. Hopefully you can see that the pump won't seat as it hits the cam.






Attached image(s)

Posted by: crash914 Aug 29 2016, 06:41 PM

oops the head pictures are before and after.

welded the head, re-profiled, ready to go.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 29 2016, 08:02 PM

You also have to use a type 1 pump made for a 3 rivet cam.
You still have to check for clearance pump body to the cam bolts. I don't use the washers that come with the cam, I use 620 locktite.

Posted by: McMark Aug 30 2016, 07:53 AM

Yup. You need to modify the other shaft as well.

Posted by: Mueller Aug 30 2016, 08:10 AM

What is the advantage of going full flow?

When or why or why not?

Posted by: McMark Aug 30 2016, 08:20 AM

Full flow is, at it's most basic, simply blocking any route bypassing the oil filter. So all the oil MUST go through the filter. The stock filter console has a spring loaded ball valve. Going 'full flow' would be a simple as tack welding the ball to the seat. But most often the setup is done by blocking the oil pump outlet, installing a pump cover with an outlet built in, removing the stock filter console and installing a block off plate instead, then removing one of the gallery plugs and using that to reintroduce the oil after it goes through whatever external filter/cooler combo you run.

I'm not really sold on the supposed benefits. It adds a lot of junctions that are potential leak points, which I don't like. The only logic that makes sense to me is that with a higher oil pressure, you may tend to lift the ball valve off its seat more frequently than a stock motor. But I think there are ways to address this issue without having to do the oil pump/cover/fittings/lines/external filter/etc setup.

Of course, if you're running an external oil cooler, it makes much more sense since the oil has to exit the case at some point to get to the cooler.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 30 2016, 11:40 AM

Full Flow was pioneered by the Type one crowd as the T1 VW engine has no oil filter, only the sump screen.

It does increase flow and IMHO a must have if you are running an external oil cooler. Herb's application is a race car with an external oil cooler.
To me the sandwich adaptor is a poor solution, mainly because of the small passages, plus you are introducing quite a few sharp 90 degree turns which is bad for flow.

In a stock 914 or even modified it's not a must have as long as you don't install a bigger than 26mm T1 pump. In my '67 bug T4 conversion my stock filter location would have been a PITA.

I do think a new type one pump (26mm) is a good upgrade for even a stock engine. Rarely do I use the old T4 pump and a good number I've checked are worn out anyways.

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Aug 30 2016, 12:09 PM

Is there a thread on a full flow system? Would like to see how you get around the front engine mount.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 30 2016, 04:04 PM

I can make you one, it's in the member vendors section.

Posted by: crash914 Aug 30 2016, 04:20 PM

Here is a picture of how I plumbed the oil line in and out of the pump and case.

Posted by: McMark Aug 31 2016, 06:41 AM

This is exactly the part that I can never wrap my head around. The oil system is not a high velocity oil system. Flow should be relatively slow, right? At least slow in the sense that corners aren't a significant impact. The oil system is really about pressure, not flow.

Plus, I just can never see where the 'reduction in corners' is in the full flow setup. What I see is for every corner you take out, you add one back.

Posted by: crash914 Aug 31 2016, 06:57 AM

I'm my case, I want to manage heat. Large remote filter, holds a quart, oil cooler, holds another quart and large lines to reduce the pressure drop. Larger lines and fewer sharp bands will reduce the pressure drop, which will result in less pump slip and more flow.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 31 2016, 08:41 AM

Herb one thing I see that I don't like is the aluminum FF pump cover.
I've seen aluminum covers with only 1k miles on them have just as much wear as a 100k cover off of a stock bug engine.
I only use steel or cast iron covers. I like the Gene Berg covers, it's what I put on my personal engines, but EMPI makes a cast iron cover that works well.

I'll see if I can find the aluminum one I recently took off a new engine with only about 1-2K miles, but I may have tossed it.

Posted by: crash914 Aug 31 2016, 10:03 AM

I was looking at the berg covers last night. I want to go steel as I also see wear on the alumn.ones. they do come in colors though.
Do you know the part number of the berg cover?

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 31 2016, 11:39 AM

Gene Berg is not the company it was before Gene died, but they have always been old school and their web catalog is hard to navigate, it's best to phone in your order.
GB241 is the standard cover.

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?name=Standard%20Full%20Flow%20Covers&cPath=2741