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Posted by: mb911 Sep 16 2016, 02:10 PM

So my dad is at a cross roads. He has had 356s,912s, 914s, 924turbos, mgs etc over the years.. He sold his 356sc about 5 years ago because he couldn't drive manual anymore and bought a boxster with a trip tronic in it.. He is now going stir crazy and is looking for a project and I ran across a 914 a friend has for a great deal and it's fairly solid.. He says he has a sporto trans for it and the actuator for it but nothing else to convert it.. The project will take my dad many years it could be a 10 year project for him.. Are there enough sporto parts out there to make the conversion happen?

Disclaimer my dad can't drive manual anymore for health reasonsso don't answer back don't do it. Budget will be low so 4k worth of parts probably makes it harder to happen for him.. I think for him it's about the dream of when he was younger.

Posted by: jor Sep 16 2016, 02:18 PM

When my dad could no longer handle a manual transmission, we found it more expedient to pick up an old Boxster with Tiptronic. 10 years is a long time for a project when he could be driving instead, plus Boxsters with Tiptronics aren't that expensive. Would a Boxster fulfill the dream?

Posted by: mb911 Sep 16 2016, 02:24 PM

He has a trip boxster already..he drives that he wants a project to spend his time on in retirement.. He has an 04 boxster s trip.

Posted by: Ferg Sep 16 2016, 02:26 PM

I don't think it's doable with that budget.

Maybe a Ghia or Bug sporto would be a more realistic option?

Posted by: jor Sep 16 2016, 02:31 PM

Well, then, the dream is about working on the car. I'm sorry that I don't have the experience to weigh in on a sportomatic conversion, but it'd be really neat to see it once done.

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 16 2016, 02:32 PM

Buy the 914 and put the Boxster transmission in it ...

Posted by: mb911 Sep 16 2016, 02:33 PM

I have a lead on one but I think he would much rather do the 914..

Posted by: injunmort Sep 16 2016, 02:50 PM

my 911 is a sport. i don't know much about them yet, but i have been told it is a 901 manual trans with a torque converter. from what i know you would need to supply oil to it in some fashion. i would think it is doable as there are allegedly one or two 914/6 sportos.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Sep 16 2016, 02:52 PM

I would swap the whole drivetrain and make it fun to drive!

Posted by: gandalf_025 Sep 16 2016, 04:45 PM

Since the car has a sporto available with it.... Why not try..??

I'm pretty sure you need an oil tank with lines in it for transmission fluid, which should be no issue for you..
The actual shifter mechanism in the car could be the same as a 911, but the linkage
might be interesting.....
You might also need a different tail piece on the trans for the reverse position....??
Like the difference between a 911 and 914 transmission tail piece.
Can't say for sure since I haven't looked at a sportomatic transmission in a long time.....

The car was designed to hold a sporto originally...

Seeing a picture of a 914 sporto and linkage would make the decision easier..

If originality isn't an issue, there is a thread here somewhere about a 914 with an Audi automatic..

Posted by: Steve Sep 16 2016, 05:38 PM

I would do the boxster tip in a 914. The sporto was a wimpy 4 speed designed for small sixes. There is nothing worse than a 4 speed on a small six. Well maybe a 4 speed with a wimpy 4 would be even worse. Lol

Posted by: mb911 Sep 16 2016, 06:50 PM

The car in essence would be free so that makes this even more interesting

Posted by: sixaddict Sep 16 2016, 08:51 PM

Call AA ...they could make the budget $8K

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 16 2016, 09:52 PM

The torque converter may actually help the four-speed work on a smallish engine. It does act as a torque multiplier, after all.

If you run the Sporto on a Six, then you can take advantage of all of the engineering that has been done by Porsche on the subject. Pick up a copy of the PET (official Porsche parts catalog) which should have drawings of the Sporto parts. Also dig up info on the 911 Sportos.

If you're running the Sporto on a -4, you'll have to figure out a way to pump the transmission fluid around, as well as fitting a tank for it and so on. The common dry-sump type pumps could work, but they usually foul the fan shroud so you need to do an upright conversion or find some other way of dealing with it.

Your best bet would be to find a wrecked 911 Sporto to raid for parts, but that may not be possible. And would probably bust your budget.

You might look into the early Audi FWD auto transmission; one of those has been done and seems to have worked reasonably.

--DD

Posted by: Steve Sep 16 2016, 10:32 PM

I had the 4 speed tip on my 993. It was horrible. Unless you wound out every gear it was pretty gutless.

Posted by: Cuda911 Sep 16 2016, 11:47 PM

Question, I guess for Tom T... how many sporto 914s were built?

Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 17 2016, 03:03 AM

No 914 4 cyl Sporto is known to exist ....... 6 cyl, yes.
I have a NOS Sporto shift lever somewhere.
Get started
Someone here put a Audi 5000 auto in a 914

Posted by: Jon H. Sep 17 2016, 04:43 AM

The guys a SubaruGears have a adaptor plate/flywheel to mount a type IV motor to a subaru manual transmission. The bolt pattern is the same for the automatic transmissions so the adaptor plate would work but I'm not sure what you would do about mounting the flex plate to the engine. You could email tom at SubaruGears and ask, great guy, awesome customer service. Of course you would also have to sort out the shifter.

Regards'
Jon H.

Posted by: gandalf_025 Sep 17 2016, 08:12 AM

Did a quick google search and found a few things..

Here are a couple of pictures of a 914-6 sportomatic.

Externally, the rear cover looks very similar,
so it may be the same ?????

Posted by: mb911 Sep 17 2016, 10:02 AM

I think it would be cool.. I don't think he is looking for speed per say but old school oil burning air cooled smells.. The Audi trans may be an option as well..

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 17 2016, 10:31 AM

The most authoritative source I have seen says 25 regular production 914-6 Sportos were built. I believe there were 4 built for the 1970 model year, and 21 for the 1971 model year. And we know of one existing prototype.

There are other reports that only 5, or only 21, were built, but I think those picked up the one-year figures and treated them as the totals.

--DD

Posted by: SirAndy Sep 17 2016, 11:10 AM

I personally know of more than 5 so that number is out of the running ...

Posted by: BK911 Sep 17 2016, 11:18 AM

Good luck sourcing all the parts.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Sep 17 2016, 12:46 PM

The one thing that everyone here is forgetting is there is no "transmission fluid" for a sportomatic. It uses the engine oil. You will have to figure out how to send oil from the engine to the trans. The 914-6 and 911s with sportomatic transmissions have extra fittings on the oil tank that hook to the transmission.

And aftermarket carbs are out too. You have to have a vacuum tank and special manifolds for the webers on a 6.

The flex plate would be easy. The sportomatic is the same tech as the VW automatic stick shift. Get the flexplate from a bus with the automatic stick shift.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Sep 17 2016, 12:54 PM

Here is the PET diagram of the oil system.



And the Vacuum System.



This is not a trivial task on a six. You have to find all the parts before you can start.

IF it is a four, I wouldn't even try. I would look for the Audi 5000 trans. It would work better than the sportomatic, and easier to install.

Posted by: gandalf_025 Sep 17 2016, 01:19 PM

Go back and read reply # 10.....................................

Oil tank is different.... Call it oil or transmission fluid... Separate fittings on tank..
Oil pump is on the trans as far as I remember and the vac lines are in the manifolds.
Vac tank is on the trans also.... Flip R/P on a 911 sporto.. there are plenty around....

If this guy can fab oil tanks and exhausts, it would be easy to mod a set of weber manifolds for a vac port. Or find a 911 set.................
They made BUG sportomatics with 4 cylinders... How tough could it be ??????
No need to reinvent the wheel.. tail piece and linkage MAY be different....

Why the big deal ??????????????????

Posted by: BK911 Sep 17 2016, 01:30 PM

The manifolds also have different throttle connections.
Oil pump is cam driven.
Vac tank is on the firewall in a 911, not sure about a 914.
Pexal set is different.
Shifter has some sort of switch on it.
Lots of special parts not easy to find.

Posted by: N_Jay Sep 17 2016, 01:50 PM

Is it the same concept as a VW Semi-Auto?

If so, it was a manual with a TC in front and a pneumatically operated clutch that disengaged when you first started moving the shift lever.

The 1972 VW was a 3 speed and it did 0-to-60 in just over a full minute!

You could jury-rig the shifter switch by using some type of pushbutton in the shift lever. (A little extra manual control.)

Posted by: sixnotfour Sep 17 2016, 02:43 PM

I have every part from a 911 to do this,, But Do this Instead,

Audi 5000
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=101948&hl=

Posted by: SixerJ Sep 17 2016, 03:29 PM

I have an oil pump, fits to the rear of the six engine and powered off the cam (same side that powers the MFI pump pulley. The sporto oil pump was also used on GTs for gearbox cooling

Watching this on eBay, not that I have any intention of buying it

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-914-6-Sportomatic-Transmission-Sporto-Trans-NOS-91430001005-/391508642062?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE

Cool project, not for the faint hearted

Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 17 2016, 05:35 PM

Oh ! I also have the Sporto only 914 6 accelerator pull rod , trans to bell crank on top of engine.

Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 18 2016, 12:18 AM

Too me I smell on it being a real 914 sporto.

VW semi auto is a 2 speed (plus a be-low gear) bag of shit that won't take anything over 50hp.
Type 3 auto would be a better choice, as it a Borg-Warner unit and could handle the 2.0 90-95HP d-jet.

That said I'd look into the Audi trans, at least it's been done before.

Don't know if the diff can be flipped on a '83 VW vanagon auto trans, if it can couple hundred bucks plus shipping and I'll drag the vanagon out of the back forty.
It has a working auto trans in it. The cash would be for the labour to take it out, the tranny is free.

Posted by: SixerJ Sep 18 2016, 07:59 AM

Mark, quite possibly this is a BS thread all things considered but for anyone wondering what a sportmatic oil pump looks like here you go (came in a box with a few oil fittings I bought a while back & I think missing some kind of cage that attaches it to the back of the cam housing)

Posted by: mb911 Sep 18 2016, 08:38 AM

That's pretty cool .. I assure you not bs.. I wonder though if a boxster 5 speed may be the best route..

Why not a Beatle autostick with the ring flipped?

Posted by: sixnotfour Sep 18 2016, 08:40 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UN2gZ-nYLA

Posted by: mb911 Sep 18 2016, 10:00 AM

I saw that as well.. Does the Audi trans require a ring gear flip as well?

Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 18 2016, 12:38 PM

I'm stating that I think the ebay ad for a "real" 914 sporto is the bs, I'd say it's a 911 sporto modified to be a 914 sporto.
I could be wrong but...

Posted by: ClayPerrine Sep 18 2016, 01:10 PM

No. the Audi trans is normally behind the motor. It will work out of the box.

Posted by: SixerJ Sep 18 2016, 02:29 PM

Ahh, I see what you mean, certainly the price of the eBay transmission is utter BS. You could buy a really nice sorted car for that money

For a sportmatic the rear boot floor is also different as well, hump required I recall

Posted by: Nutter965 Sep 19 2016, 09:46 AM

Found this on Ebay.de !

http://www.ebay.de/itm/PORSCHE-914-6-Getriebe-914-05-AT-761003X-Sportomatic-/122114988592?hash=item1c6e9eda30:g:n1cAAOSw-kdXyxoq

Posted by: rgalla9146 Sep 19 2016, 10:14 AM

The one in Germany is more like it.
Seems to me that all of the missing parts could be found in the 911 world for cheap.
Many era correct 911Sportos have been converted to stick.
I saw a Sporto pedal assy. at the Pa. swap meet on Saturday.
I sold a rusty '68 911 recently that had the vacuum solenoids still in it.
The rear cover is probably one of the few 914 specific parts.

Posted by: SixerJ Sep 19 2016, 03:01 PM

I've bought from that seller in the past, fast shipment & even though the add says posts to Germany, scroll down and he will ship to other locations. USA would be spendy in shipping and customs.....

Love the idea and challenge of an all Porsche -4 sporto, but if this is all about driver continued enjoyment then boxter/ Audi route still feels the more logical one, more availability on bits & less dollars

Posted by: BK911 Sep 19 2016, 04:00 PM

Not so sure the parts are cheap.
A few sporto owners are starting to convert back
I sold off my stash recently and did quite well
Still have the tranny though.

Posted by: injunmort Sep 19 2016, 04:13 PM

went and looked at my 70 sports setup. looks very doable for a /4. mine looks to be actuated by a solenoid on the clutch lever and pick ups on the the shifter lever. not vacuum. i could be wrong. there is extra oil and pump for torque converter i believe. my understanding is that it is not an automatic transmission but more an automatic clutch transmission. its still has to be shifted thru the gears.

Posted by: Mike D. Sep 19 2016, 05:59 PM

Couldn't a vw unit be modified to work? You can buy a whole Auto Stick car on theSamba for $700. also one for $900. Either of these would have all the parts. Just need to mod. linkage, peddles, flip r&p, figure out how to mount. You can part out the beetle for extra beer money along the way.
??

Posted by: Dave_Darling Sep 19 2016, 06:27 PM

See Mark Henry's earlier response: The Bug one was a two-speed (plus super-low) and couldn't hold much power. Check for a Type III one, and that might work.

--DD

Posted by: mb911 Sep 19 2016, 06:36 PM

I had thought the same thing about Beatle auto stick..

Making progress on the acquisition of the 914.. My dad is arranging a roll back.. Hopefully we can make something happen.

Posted by: Mike D. Sep 19 2016, 06:59 PM

oops, missed that.
However, his dad isn't building a race car...

type 3 never had autostick, only the full automatic.

Posted by: tazz9924 Sep 19 2016, 10:55 PM

if hes set on the air cooled motor im sure somthing could b done to mate a type 4 to a subaru fwd auto

Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 19 2016, 11:14 PM

No but a 1.7 T4 is around 80hp right? The auto stick will go up in smoke at 80hp even with my grandmother driving it.
And she's been dead for 20 years.

Yes the T3 is full auto, it can easily handle 100+hp.

I've been down this rabbit hole...25 years ago....I bet it wouldn't last a full week

Posted by: mb911 Sep 20 2016, 09:38 AM

The awesome thing about this is the options.. My dad has zero intentions of racing the car just driving it.. Should be fun

Posted by: andrewvolsen Sep 20 2016, 09:43 AM

The parts catalogue available as a PDF here includes diagrams and part numbers for all of the 914-6 sporto stuff:

http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/originalparts/en/E_914_KATALOG.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjP1sqOop7PAhXLeD4KHeaRChIQFgghMAM&usg=AFQjCNHmYJ1_cQs2vkwMKcpeBU5XDaziLw&sig2=4VpEhOhlkXobggzeflWo6g

Posted by: N_Jay Sep 20 2016, 10:24 AM

Take good notes and lots of picture no matter which way you go.

I would love to see an Audi trans mounted up.

Could you imagine a 914 with a 2.7T V6 and a six speed?

Posted by: veekry9 Sep 20 2016, 11:29 AM

^
Dokument nicht gefunden.Link nfg.

http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/originalparts/en/E_914_KATALOG.pdf

Pg 127/314-Sportomatic.
Every owner and interested party should have this katalog,all the parts.


/

Posted by: mb911 Sep 20 2016, 11:54 AM

So as the story unfolds looks like it maybe a 411 autostick.. That could cause for a challenge in itself but I know there are allot of options as I could still do a sporto conversion as I know several with those parts.

Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 20 2016, 12:06 PM

Type 4, 411 automatic is the same as in the T3....it's not an autostick, it's a fully automatic 3 speed made by Borg-Warner.
It will work as long as you can flip the diff.

Posted by: B2524 Sep 20 2016, 12:18 PM

go for it, the sporto parts aren't that hard to find. call Jim at EASY, he has sporto parts.
i'll look around i may have some left i will give you.

i had a special order 78 SC with a sporto from the factory, the car was super fast off the line.

send me a PM if you go for it and i will send what i have.

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 22 2016, 10:13 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/929725-sportomatic-transmission.html

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 22 2016, 11:28 AM

Found this on ebay... Not a reputable seller, but it proves something like this might be had for cheep enough to try!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Semi-Auto-Clutch-System-/122130496948?hash=item1c6f8b7db4:g:qBMAAOSwepZXR8Co


This was someone's review of it back in 04
http://benmlee.com/4Runner/autoclutch/Auto_Clutch.htm

Posted by: mb911 Sep 23 2016, 10:35 AM

Now that would be an awesome.. I am going to look into it.

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 23 2016, 07:51 PM

Here's the "money is no object" answer...and Mike Bellis' dream trans.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-Cayman-Boxster-PDK-2009-Base-Includes-Flywheel-44k-Free-Ship-/182289955903?hash=item2a7153fc3f:g:iboAAOSw8gVX5BVD

Look at the size of that beast! What's that...300 lbs?

Posted by: Steve Sep 24 2016, 08:49 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/929725-sportomatic-transmission.html

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 24 2016, 09:23 AM

#Goals


In 5 years when they are down to the 1k range, we'll see what happens

Posted by: bernbomb914 Sep 24 2016, 11:06 PM

I have several sporty trans in my gaeage plus several trans that I took apart for the gear sets I have no ldea what they ae worth as I bought them many years ago. what is the market? some of them have the H gears in them that make a super 5th

Posted by: porschetub Sep 25 2016, 02:49 AM

The DR on ebay has a few parts real cheap

Posted by: mb911 Sep 25 2016, 06:03 AM

After searching a bit more I think I am going to first pursue the automatic clutch setup.. There are some positive reviews on the web but finding the setup is bit harder.. If that can't be done reasonably then back to sportomatic conversion..

The nice thing is the 914 he will be getting is a 73 2.0 and with the auto clutch no mods to the car would be required that aren't reversed.

Posted by: Chris H. Sep 25 2016, 11:15 AM

Sportomatic or sporty Bernie? Have a trusted local World member or friend help you with that stuff if you don't know the market. Some trans stuff is a lot more valuable than it used to be. (Some not so much .)

Posted by: bernbomb914 Sep 25 2016, 02:15 PM

sportomatic 0ne is 4 speed and one is a late model 3 spd

Posted by: mb911 Oct 19 2016, 02:19 PM

Ok so a little update..

My dad's car was picked up today and is being delivered. Its a 74 2.0.. Not much rust but some I will have to fix.. It has been bare metals and primed but needs to be cleaned up.. It cost zero dollars to buy so the price was right..

Once it's running I will work with him on some sort of clutch actuator..

Posted by: Dr Evil Oct 23 2016, 04:15 PM

Holy crap

Looks interesting.