Should be fun!
I hope you still plan on adding radiator exhaust holes in the front trunk, those vents won't work alone that you have for the hood.
Scratch HOPE and replace with Blood, sweat & tears. Press on.
Yes ,I plan to do a much larger area on the hood,or maybe a diffant style altogether Iam just sizing those up,..rad system in place already, I need to install the gas tank ( I need the line fittings yet) I need the radiator and engine cooling hoses,. the engine cradle that's (in work), and ECU finalized,.then fuel pump, ETC..
Nice! Looks like Frank has mastered posting pics! Another 3.3 conversion will be cool. I'm about to go take a lap in mine in the cool air.
A "cradle" would have to be custom made because it's tough to work it around the exhaust system. Pretty much the only Subaru engine I've seen that has that issue. I can send you some pics of my engine mount setup. Bigkat made it. Mine is an early -4 mount up front with some L shaped angled pieces welded to it and trans hangers at the back. The middle is wide open. Key is you have to have a really good welder attach the additional pieces and they have to be VERY strong metal. Most of the weight of the engine is up front. Mine's been hanging in there for 3 years.
Hi Chris,..Iam going the smallcar route I think,..get there side pieces,.then weld the cross bar to match,..
I do need help with the fuel tank set-up I have new stainless steel lines installed but I don't have the fittings for the tank,..?? Suggestions Pls,...
You have stainless lines from Tangerine Racing? You can use rubber (or whatever it's made of) fuel injection hose to connect to the tank. That looks like a later car so both lines should be the same size. 8mm, so I think that's 5/16 at the local auto parts store. Just make sure it's HIGH PRESSURE fuel hose.
Unless you bought the ones with the screw-type AN fittings on the ends? If so post pics of what you have and where you got it.
No,..not from Tangerine,..P.O installed them ,.I will get pics for tomorrow,...Thanks
Ooooooo... Can I come help?
Problem is that I'm gone a lot of weekends but feel free to coordinate with me if you need some help
That's it? Just the tank fittings? No tunnel lines or anything? One is stock, the other is an -AN fitting. Really should go one way or the other. Let us know and we'll go from there.
Pm Bruce Stone (Bdstone) to get the correct fitting. Rotary914 has the washers. So your going to run the pump exposed? Walbro? Some of the Suby stock pumps are Walbro.
I'm curious about the 300HP, not sure how an EG will get you there in a stock form. Now if you do a few tricks, proper headers, cams, E85, boost then we get closer to 300. The last one will get you well above 300.
That being said I have tabled my power plans to blow the EG. I was going to run a blower an E85. After this weekend and not finding E85 on the roads around Okteenerfest. I really don't want to haul around a truck bed full of E85 just to be able to go
So if you got a way of getting 300+ HP, I will be
Even if you don't I'll be
Another EG33 build
Well, I only say 300 HP,..because I have heard u can,..the only mods I will do is new injectors,and the ZF34 mod,.and maybe cams in the future,..
when it comes to the gas tank fittings,.I don't know what to use,..the PO had this set up,..I need to know what to do,.??
Sorry Chris,..yes I have tunnel lines 2 ea,installed.I belive 1 will be blocked off due to no return line right.??
Yes,..once I get it to move down the street,.I will then ( if I have the $$$) go after those mod's...
They are steel and no fittings attached at all,..either end he just ran the lines,..did the peddel cluster rebuild,.and stopped,..then I bought her,...Pic's in the AM.!!
That's good. Then you probably want do what Kent said and replace that threaded fitting on your tank with another stock one. Bruce Stone or Garold Shaffer are good sources for that. Then you can use high pressure fuel injection hoses up front to connect to the fuel lines in the tunnel (both should be 5/16 from a FLAPS). The fuel pump mounts up front under the tank too if you use the Walbro like I did. Fits well in the stock location.
Post some pics anyway just so we see what you have for tunnel lines.
Going AN has it's place, but it gets expensive very quickly. Read lots of $$$$$ to do correctly and for a street car, it is way over kill.
Good luck with the build, one other thing you might want to consider is engine seals. It is a lot easier to do these while out of the car. In a 914 it is easier than doing them in the SVX. I know this from experience
Thanks 914forme,..I wasnt sure I needed it,..how is it installed,..??
spoke to soon,...I ck'd website..its the fuel screen, correct,..????
Yes the fuel screen, they get crude up, easy enough to check if you need one. All you need is hose, like Chris suggested. And a new fitting for under the tank.
BTW, the small car mount is available as just the mounts - just have to call them. It is what I used on mine. First version as a -4 style using early -4 bar. Second version went to the firewall. Like a Patric Motorsports -6 mount. It is a -6 after all. Makes it easier to get the clearance to put the EG in with out cutting the trunk. Chris did the flipped manifold on his conversion. I had room but never do anything the easy way. :headband:
Also you might want to take a die and run it down the outside of the lines. Gives the hose a little something to grab onto. They just have to be roughed up a bit. Most people don't have beading tools to make them proper.
Yeps those ARE Tangerine Racing tunnel fuel lines. Good news there. The Walbro pump mounts up front in the stock location as I mentioned. 5/16 high pressure FI hose...get plenty so you can leave some slack if you want to pull the tank up without undoing the lines.
Got your PM, I will send some pics of my mount setup. The -6 mount setup is a great way also. Even more room.
Ahh,..I didnt think of roughing the lines,..But I will for sure now,..I do intend to flip the intake,..the guy from the svx site is making spacers again ,..So Iam waiting for him,.. to get a set,...
who makes the -6 mount,..I would at least look at it..??
Here is my next major issue some ends are terminated and some are not,..I really need a plug and play harness,..But, I also want to try and pin my original chassis harness to accept parts of this SVX harness is that even possible ??
For about $600, my guy made a plug and play harness for my svx harness and the fan on the radiator
I would love that info pls,...Thanks FM
where can I get the engine and tranny mounts needed for my 3.3 conversion,..they used to be called sport mounts but I just see regular engine mounts listed on pelican,..?? TIA, FM
Ok,..I have the fuel tank fitting's on the way Thanks BDstone...Now when I was taking off the the old fitting it was hard to turn,.so I WD-40 it for about 5 days ,.then it twisted off,.but it wasn't really threaded on all the way ,..so when I install my newer fittings do they screw on easy or are they suppose to have some resistance?? I don't want to strip those threads tank or fittings..TIA FM
Also engine brackets will be here next week,.(small car)So I can stage the engine ,..sent harness out to be terminated,hopefully back in a month,!!!
Ok,..the next set of questions now
A.can I use a straight shifting tube from tangerine,.as in the 914-6 shifting tube,..
B. safest way to check fuel flow once the tank and pump are set-up
C. and can I make my own intake spacers,so I can flip my intake..??
You really decide on the shift tube once the engine and trans are in the car and the headers are mounted on the engine. Then you can tell what shape your shift rod will need to be. Trying to guess before you have the 3D picture will be a waste of time. Same with the exhaust. Until the engine is mounted in the car, you don't really know what you need.
And you're not using a Subaru trans?
correct no Suby trans..
OK Thanks Mepstein,..hope to have it all mocked up or placed within 2 weeks..Thanks FM
Hi Chris,..I was curious if I could use a 914-6 straight shift rod,..don't the -6 use the 901 tranny ??,..
how many hours does it take to flip the intake,..?? TIA Frank
It takes (at least) a few hours and a lot of patience to flip the intake. ThePaintedMan's thread shows some very good tips and tricks. I removed some of the small vacuum lines that were interfering with the flip and replaced them with soft lines to make it easier. I also rerouted the fuel lines a bit.
The cost of using a 901 trans is almost the same as a Subaru 5MT, and the 5MT shifts like a modern car. It also bolts right up to the EG33. With a 901 you have to get an adapter plate, and sometimes modify the linkage. The 901 is a fine trans and I'd use it with anything I could bolt it right up to, but not with an adapter. Too many other options these days. You do have to install a hydraulic clutch but that is well documented here.
You pay for shipping I'll send you a Sub MT5 Trans, I have a few spares now. You will just need a spool and rear cover, everything is ready to go.
I even have a set of axles I will toss into the deal, cut them or have them resplined. I am not suing them because I plan on doing with my 914.
Do yourself a huge favor and goto the subaru transmission.
I would go for that deal if it was meant for me,..?? Thanks Frank
Wow that's a huge donation Steve. GO FOR THAT DEAL FRANK!!!!
Aldo Frank, wait until you get the stuff before you order any clutch parts. The clutch, pressure plate, flywheel all are matched to the trans, not the engine. You don't have any of that since the SVX is automatic. You just have a flex plate which you won't use. You also need longer bolts for bolting the flywheel on. We'll get to that later.
Even tho I saved the thread,..I cant find it now,..
I need to know the company that makes the water line adapter's Jaguar something,..?? Could someone pls remind me ?? Thanks FM
Ahh Yes,..Thank You Sir..!!! FM
where can I find exhaust flanges,..I need 2 flanges ,..to fit my 911 banana style muffler,..the 2 in 1 out type,..not sure how this will sound,..should I also install,..something before the muffler,..I was just going to run straight pipes into it,.??? FM
meaning I should not use anything before the 911 muffler keep straight pipes...
That will keep your backpressure to a minimum and you can judge the sound quality from there. If the seat of the pants feeling is good for you and it sounds cool, go ahead and keep it. If not, you can go in another direction depending on what the issues are. I've already got plans for my 3.3 in the exhaust dept. and I've still got some figuring to do. The banana might just be what you want and I'd love to hear it when you've got it running!
Yes,..No problem with that,..I will certainly get to ya,...Frank
You will need a different muffler, as there is just no room back there for the banana, once you go Subaru trans. I guess you could highly modify the banana, anything is possible,,
This will give you an idea of how much room you'll have to work with.
A small hijack here - Kent, what axles are you using?
Subaru Inside and some combo of outside Porsche CVs. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=201776&hl=Build%20%20Thread&st=220The Discussion starts at post 220.
"Inner CV = FEMALE Subie (2002-2004) which is fine for you because your trans already has stub axles so it's set up for female CVs
Axle = Ians or re-splined 914 axle on one side to accept said Subie CV
Outer = the stock 914 CV....or you could upgrade to 944 if you pop a stock CV or two."
Sometimes asking is faster than research - Thanks!
My next quest....is setting up the water system,..I would like to know where do ya get the reducers for the hoses,..I think,. I would keep factory hose and then plumb from my 3/4 " steel line to the factory inlet and outlet hose's correct ??? Thanks, as always,..!!!! Frank
Great Thanks,..!!!,....Well, I had someone install steel line's under the car,..He has a chevy V8,.and his is set up the same way,.. and he said his temps are fine even in the summer,..Ill get a real measurement,..on those line's,..But I do have a large 3 row radiator .??
SS or steel? If steel I would recommend using some anode plugs in your cooling system.
Steel,..he's had them on his for about 6 yrs I think,..how would I install anode plugs,....
P.S.,.Harness may be completed soon,..he started it today...!!
Yeah measure those Frank. Don't think a V8 would do well at all with 3/4 lines. Probably 1" or larger.
Great news on the harness. You're skipping the hardest part. That's a good thing!
Can't remember where I saw them. I lost all of my bookmarks when my laptop took a shit months back. Maybe Jags that Run. They're ips threaded so you'd need a tee to screw them in. Does your friends car have a CI block? If so I'd think steel would be fine. You want t avoid a mix of metals that are so far apart on the Galvanic chart. Al is the more noble of the two metals and with steel tubes you've got enough mass to attract the Al. It will want to draw the Al to the steel and where will it come from? Your radiator or block. How quickly this happens depends upon the amount of energy i.e stray current. If you ran rubber hoses vs. steel I doubt you'd see any anodic reaction.
Yeah those should be fine. So you just need to look at the link I posted before and get the correct reducers. The engine inlets are 1.5" I think. Measure them to be sure. Don't forget to measure your radiator inlets too. They might be different than the engine since the rad is not stock.
Thanks Chris I will,...
They are shorter than the stock lines only because they are made of stainless steel rather than the plastic composite material the originals are made of, so of course they are not as flexible so the designer had to stop them there. Those are Tangerine Racing lines, and they either come as a 2 piece or 4 piece set. The 4 piece set has another length of stainless lines that run into the engine compartment connected with a small piece of FI hose to the tunnel lines. Mine are just like yours, just the tunnel lines, and I ran high pressure FI hose from there into the engine compartment. You can use 5/16 as a substitute for 8mm. Just make sure it's high pressure hose made for later model engines.
Here's a link to the lines you have:
They are the best thing out there to replace stock lines with.
yes, I have the 4 piece set,..Thanks,..Ill just secure them a different way,..on the fire wall
Over the holiday weekend I will attempt to fit the engine inplace and set up fuel line's and Rad lines and hope to get the crossbar installed and measured,..So I can get it welded up for perminet install. harness should be finished soon..!!!
would there be a smaller throttle body set up to use on this 3.3 so I don't have to flip intake or cut the trunk ???
No way to do it with the stock intake manifold. You're practically touching the rear firewall with the stock setup too. It has the iris valve and all, very unique to the SVX. Saw a custom one on the internet that was a tube design with a 70mm throttle body but it was built for a plane I think. They were more concerned with safe, reliable power than getting every last bit of performance out of it. Probably lose some horses with that setup.
Flipping the intake is not hard. Wish I'd tried a little harder the first time .
Yes it is easy to flip the stock intake.
I would disagree with the intake manifold. It helps more for the broader torque curve, but a properly tuned manifold will make more peak horsepower. It will just be across a very narrow RPM range. The advantage to IRIS is it broadens the drivability of the engine. Which helps on the street.
The manifold in question is more than likely seen on SDS' web site. The EG33 link is down. http://www.sdsefi.com/air12.html though, add a few runners. And they built the EG out of Aluminum.
Well, The harness will be on the way soon, a day or two,..he connected to a svx,..and it started ...So I hope mine will do the same ..!! I think I will have all the parts needed to start assembley,..Iam waiting for the spacers so I can flip my intake manifold,..If that dos'nt work out, that will just slow things up a bit , not stop the process ,.Then of course the gauge package...will be next !! right ?? Thanks Frank
Now that I have my harness back Thanks Jeff,..I would like to know how others have installed thier's its bigger that I thought it would be,..and also what is this item that has the bracket attached and where does it mount ?? Thanks Frank
Ahh,...Thank You ..!! Frank
How hard is this kinda swap and how costly is it?
I got lucky,..car 2500.00, engine with a 100k miles,trany adapter kit,transmission,and harness = 1500.00,.shipping to me 350.00,.then,.Radiator system and lines installed 1300.00,.finally I had to send the harness out to make sure it was terminated correctly,and fan harness that totaled 650.00 ,..So ,..total so far with some Misc. items about 6650.00. over a 2 year period.And I now need a engine mount that will total 300.00,..then exhaust system yet to be fabbed ,I have a 911 banana style muffler I intend to use also,..so now total is about 7K...FM
And Thank U,... 914pipe
when trying to install the fuel pump for my 3.3 build,..I have only found 1 factory wire in that compartment, Do I simply use a ground wire to the lid or body from the fuel pump it self,..?? TIA Frank
I'll look today Frank. Happen to have my fuel pump cover off. Long story involving me dropping my phone down the space between the tank and the body
Oh...Great Thanks !!! Frank
I had to take my tank out today, so here's a nice pic for you.
As you can see there is a ground wire connected to the pump, then connected to a spade attached to the body under the tank. If your spade is missing just ground it well to the body.
OH..Ok,..Damn that blows ya had to pull the tank,..damn phones,..!! Thanks,..
I hate to ask I will be needed how to connect fuel lines to engine advice...Soon...Thanks !!!! so much...Frank
No a problem. Very easy to set up the fuel lines. I actually had to pull the tank to put my fresh air box back in. Was able to fish the phone out through the fuel pump hole but could not see the ground wire through it.
took 5 seconds
r towle....Thanks...Iam just not that computor literiate
it hits the small car bracket and wont line up ??
I thought it would be very close to the cross member not beyond it
Your on the right path, the idea with the small car is that you will need to cut the mount and mount it over an early style bar. I think I have detailed shots of mine in my build thread.
I made two of them
And I suppose that's why the oil filter wont screw on either,..I will ck that out,.I thought it was to short ,..not to long but I do fell better,I would still love a cradle..lol
cradles are over rated
Well I was hoping to just bolt it in and be done,..But I can see now that's not the case ..
BUT,..My oil filter will not screw on either is that the result of the brackets being to long ??
I'am about to start my intake flip,I will be using the subie chip to eliminate the EGR system,and I will be using the spacer kit from X35 design.
1. I DON'T know how much of the EGR system to remove.( i dont have the chip yet )
2. I don't know how to do the ALT bracket
3. Is there a shorter crank pulley I can install on the 3.3..???
4. Thanks to all that can help...!!!! Frank
yes it works fine.
WOW,..I would have never thought it could handle the weight,..Thank U,..!!
Any thought on my previous post about removing the EGR system..??
You use the rear hook spot, and I use a bolt up front to balance it all out.
You just block the EGR, with a steel plate, and a plug in the manifold if your using the stock exhaust manifolds. Since I did not keep the stock ECU, it might kick codes. Not sure
yes,.Iam using the stk manifolds,..and the stock ECU,..But I will be chipping the ECU to stop those codes,.
are you using 914 trans?
Yes,..On the trans,..jim
Trying to do the intake flip, not sure what stays and what goes
I am guessing that U open the harness,.( more slack from harness)to reconnect ,connector's,..and then buy new generic hose to then refit them as needed,..Am I any where near correct ?? Thanks Frank
Are there any companies that make original color dye's for Porsche interior color's,Plus I cant get rid of the stains on this horn pad,.any Suggestion's
Go to a auto paint store and get a couple of cans of SEM interior spray. They should have it in almost any color. These were black and have held up good for the last 15yrs.
Yea, I could not remember his name/
write up from my home computer, Thanks !!!!
Regarding the steering wheel, you can hit that with some SEM dye too (like the seats).
Thanks for the Dye tips,..Bigkat and AZ914 I will do just that,.!!! WOW 15 yrs that's great,..
would it be safe to mount the Subaru ECU, next the the battery just like the original ECU or should I mount inside the cabin,..I didn't really want to drill a 2 in whole in the fire wall if I didn't need to ?? Thanks ,..Frank
yea,..I kinda wanted to hide it a little better if possible,it's better than under the seat that's for sure !!
Subaru ECUs are mounted inside the cabin, not water tight. Drop it in the trunk, easiest. Or extend the harness and move it to the cabin.
I'd put it in the trunk. You need a little protection but no need for it to be sealed water tight. If you extend the wires you have to use high quality stranded shielded wire for many of them. It makes for a very fat harness to pass through the firewall. The shielded wires for the cam and crank sensors are very sensitive. Any significant signal leakage will cause it to run poorly.
I'd think the harness is long enough to put in the cabin, possibly between the seats either on the floor or the back. Easy enough to cover with a shield and some sort of material or pad. That's what I'm planning...
Yea,..I don't really want to pull the interior out,.I will be working on it this weekend,..and I hope its not to hot,if I had 40 straight hours and cooler temps I could be very close to turning the key,barring complications of course
Chris914n6,...why do I need the fuse panel,.Iwas expecting to wire it thru my chassis harness and use my existing fuse panel...??
40 plus yr. old wiring with those crappy fuses and no room for relays? Nope... not for me. Play with the wiring lengths that you have, see where you can go, and fit it as safely as you can. If you need to have it in an exposed area, install it in a box where it can be accessed quickly and that's fairly waterproof. Preferably up high would be best.
Listen to these 2 guys. There both mechanics. You can't have too many fuses or grounds or relays. My Dakota Fan Controller instructions were quick to point out that the relays (switched & hot) could not share the same circuit or bouncing was likely. I experienced this once when I designed my own neutral safety switch. The computer went wild and so did the idle circuit. I didn't know why then but now I understand. This is what happens when a plumber ventures into the electrical world.
So I need a fuse system for every wire I intend to use,.,( for instance) I run a starter wire to a fuse block or panel and then to the actual starter lug,.
I thought fuses were for hi AMP draws,..?? Thanbks
Your ECU needs to be protected on the positive switched side and the positive Batt side. Any appurtenance that you're adding that requires 12V needs to be fused e.g. after market gages, radiator fans, fan controller, AC, etc. Fuses are sized to the wire size and the wires are sized according to load. I did not share fuses as the OEM setup is antiquated. You'll end up with 6-12 additional fuses depending upon additional circuits required. Hopefully your running a fused 8ga wire from the engine bay to the trunk for your fans.
yes my fans are all well fused ( That I knew about),.. I better get started on all the other fused items...Thanks for the Info..!!!! Frank
ECU wiring for a 97 Maxima. Suby likely pretty close being from the same design era & obd2. Basically any component that can short out gets it's own fuse, otherwise figuring out what failed would be a nightmare.
Fused distribution blocks cheap on ebay.
I essentially recreated the factory setup.
I also added an 8ga from battery to a distribution block next to the factory fuse panel, for the 2 fans and added electronics.
I also added about a dozen wires to the dash for VSS, water temp, fan triggers, a/c button, CEL, etc.
red = battery hot. orange = switched. yellow = start signal.
That's an excellent point Chris. I always just thought of it as "fuse anything you don't want to burn up". Never thought about it from a diagnostic stand point.
Thank You for that Diagram gives me some way to go,..
any idea on how to pull that cluch assy and adapter plate, should it be clutch first then plate or can I pull the adapter plate and the clutch should come with it .??? Thanks Frank
Clutch is behind the Pressure Plate which is bolted to the Flywheel which is bolted to the Crank which is not attached to the Adapter. The Adapter might slide over the Flywheel though it will be a tight fit.
Ah Yes,..ok Thank You !!
[quote name='Chris914n6' date='Sep 11 2017, 06:26 PM' post='2526733']
ECU wiring for a 97 Maxima. Suby likely pretty close being from the same design era & obd2. Basically any component that can short out gets it's own fuse, otherwise figuring out what failed would be a nightmare.
Fused distribution blocks cheap on ebay.
I essentially recreated the factory setup.
I also added an 8ga from battery to a distribution block next to the factory fuse panel, for the 2 fans and added electronics.
I also added about a dozen wires to the dash for VSS, water temp, fan triggers, a/c button, CEL, etc.
I didn't have to recreate anything, just adapt it to a few existing systems on the car. I pulled my stock wiring altogether and am using most of the harness from my SVX including the instrument cluster and the steering column similar to what Andyrew did. I intend to drive the car across the country and am basically a wimp, wanting to have as few issues as possible that I'm not familiar with. I'm not nearly as adventurous as most of the folks around here!
whats the best fuse panel to use ,..looking at classic-technologies.com version,.runs about 250.00..
That's not what you want. Stock fuse box works fine for chassis circuits, might need a good cleaning though.
All modern cars have a separate fuse box for drivetrain circuits. All you need is a couple distribution boxes (<$10 on ebay) and a few relays & sockets(<$5 each). I put all mine on a piece of scrap ABS to keep it neat. Other have screwed theirs straight to the sheetmetal.
Start with blueprinting the Suby engine harness, then you will know how many circuits you need to accommodate and if it's hot or ignition switch switched. There is a 911 male plug that fits into the 914 female plug at the stock engine bay fuse/relay panel that you can tap into for hot & switched & most of the gauges.
I am using a Nissan gauge cluster so I added wires for CEL and have lots of extra indicator lights so I added the fans, plus the VSS return to the ecu.
The Aux Air valve is the cold start fast idle valve. Powered from an 'Ignition on wire', the other wire can go to ground. A Bi-metal strip heats up to turn it off, and the idle slows to the normal 600 rpm idle. I've heard it's similar to the old Porsche CIS valve but being water cooled myself, I have no clue as to if that's true or not.
You can't run without it using the stock ECU if that's what you're wondering . It provides a lot more air (unmetered) at startup. Otherwise the engine is really hard to start when cold. You can move it somewhere else if it's causing issues with your intake flip. Just need to get different sized hoses.
Ahh...Thanks Chris...that's exactly my issue,..but not anymore..cool...
Being that my 3.3 has no distributor and if all my mark's are aligned on sprockets with the case and piston is top dead center,..is there such a thing as 180 Deg.( out ) or is that only for a distributed engine.
No.that piece will only attach one way between your crank and fly wheel. It's a round piece of aluminum about 3" diameter.
LOL,..what Iam asking is a timing question,if all my marks are lined up on the front sprockets and case of my Subaru 3.3 and my # 1 piston is at TDC can I still be 180 Deg. out I need to change my lower cam seals and I need to be sure things are lined up correctly,
No. Be sure to rotate the engine with the plugs removed to see if it spins freely and to be sure you aren't off on your marks. That is a "0" clearance engine and the valves will contact the pistons if your off.
To get to the lower cam seals you have to remove the timing belt pulleys. They only come off and go on one way. Just pick the old seals out and replace them. No need to disassemble the engine in any way. While you have the timing belt off do your main seal on the crank behind the pulley. That is the most common leak point. Mine leaked only when running which was a PITA.
The only way to your timing would be off would be if you reinstall the timing belt incorrectly. It's a non interference engine but still not good to run with the belt installed incorrectly. The factory manual shows how to get it aligned, or you can look in my build thread.
Got it,..Thank You..!!
Can I remove my 92 EGR system all together,.even if I drive in a colder winter climate ?? and have the stk ECU?? Thanks
I removed the hard vacuum lines and replaced them with soft lines, but if you got it to work with the hard lines go for it.
You may not get enough tension on the alternator belt unless you use the pulley to the left of the crank pulley. It has an adjuster on it. I used a Miata belt. 37.5 or something like that.
If you look at ThePaintedMan's thread you will see how we both had to slightly rotate the iris valve because it was hitting the coolant pipe. Just had to enlarge the hole a bit.
i thought eg33 was non interference?
It's non interference from all that I've studied but I'd still not want to lose a belt at speed - I'd think you'd bend up some parts.
Yes,..I did rotate the iris valve, my next thing is should I delete my EGR system,..Iam the reverse of you,being that Iam in Tucson, I will drive in winter and park in the summer,.
will this fuse panel solve all my electicial requirements for the suby upgrade I still intend to use the 914 chassis panel for the usual needs..Fuel pump and starter but the other suby ECU hook ups should run thought this panel correct,..??? Thanks Frank
I'd Shit can that old relay board if I were you. You'll need one for your Alternator, 1 for your radiator fans, 1 for your ECU, 1 for your starter solenoid, 1 for your fuel pump and a few extra for later add ons. Looks like you have enough relays. What are the amp ratings on those relays?
35 AMPs ea,...But Iam not sure if I could go larger
I want to use original fuse panel so I can tie into fuel pump and starter from chassis harness,..I have no experience in wiring so for now I just want it hooked to get it running then I can change thigs as needed.
First, I mistakingly said you need a relay for your alternator. You don't. Relays enable you to run smaller wires to switch or activate an item that draws a heavy amp load, i.e. fans, starters, or fuel pumps, etc. And are usually place near a larger energy source to supply those items just mentioned. You need to run a 12 or 14 ga wire up front thru the tunnel for your radiator fans. You currently have 2 large red wires that run through the tunnel from the battery. One goes to the steering column and the other to position #10 on your fuse panel. Both of these are unfused and it's a damned good idea to fuse them back at the battery. The Amp ratings on your new fuse board are plenty. What size wires are those on that panel? They may be large enough that you won't need to run an additional line through the tunnel.
EDIT: Or send me a link to where you purchased the board so I can check it out.
I found it at first on youtube,..looking for info on how to wire a panel and then I found that panel.under automotive waterproof fuse panels.
W/O a link to detrmine what size wires you have I'll guess yes. Based upon the assumption that there are 5 relay sockets and 10 fuse sockets and the relays are 40amp then surely 5 of those circuits would have at least 14ga or 12ga wires coming from them. You really need to know such things as the amp draw of your fans, distance from fans to power source, etc. The fans that I have on this SBC build draw 3.8 amps each so almost 8 amps. I would imagine some of the older fans off a Cadillac or similar might pull 6 amps or more. I wouldn't run anything smaller than 12 ga if your just shooting from the hip.
I spoke with the guy who built my harness,..I just need to run 8 gauge from front to the battery,My fan and Alt. is fused and relayed,just got to make the connection's
I have the KEP,Fly wheel for my conversion,BUT the presure plate bolts that were with the kit are loose when you thread them in,.SO I called them they sent new bolts and they also wiggle a little bit, is this normal for PP bolts they sent bolts and lock washers ??? TIA Frank
Lock washers are normal. They don't need to be really tight. Check the specs but probably 16-20 lbs ft. Good call on 8ga. You can never have to much available. Can you do an amp draw on those fans to check the demand?
76-914,. the bolts wiggle when I screw them in half way, they did supply lock washers Iam just nervous about those bolts, why do they fit loose like that is my concern,Iam sure they will torque ok but still,..and I would do a test on the AMP draw if I new how,.I guess hook them up and then test,.???
When I do an amp test I use an in line fuse between the +battery and in this case the + on the fan. Remove the fuse from the fuse holder then insert one lead from your test probe into each female spade fitting in the fuse holder. You need to set your multi meter to the "DC" amp setting which in my case means leaving the red lead on the common and moving the black lead to the AMP outlet on the multi meter.
Ahh Sweet, thanks I will ck that this weekend,...FM
Does the ECU control the fans? If so, you may need 3 relays if that schematic posted a few pages back is correct. I'm not familiar with the Subaru electrical, but it looks like you need a relay for the ECCS, three relays for your fans, one relay for your fuel pump, and I still love the idea of using one relay for the starter solenoid. This would relieve strain from the 914 ignition switch.
Yes, the ECU has fan controllers in it. Low speed and high speed. You would need 3 relays to control it, or you could just combine low and high. If I remember right, in a 2 fan scenario low speed turns one fan on, high speed kicks them both on.
High speed also is invoked when the AC circuit is activated. The moral is if for some reason your ECU thinks your AC is on, it will power the high speed circuit. And well you will be wondering why the fans are running.
Yes, you could use the AC wire as a switched source to power the fans manually if you wanted to.
I'll post pic's of my fan harness,But it is relayed and fused its ready to go,..I just gotta get them hooked up,..
I've got a set of the OEM 3 wire Subaru fans if you want them. They're too wide unless you mount them for a floor exhaust. That being said they are quite, powerful and yours for the cost of shipping.
Well,..Thank You for the offer !!! my Radiator set up measures out to be 11" tall and 25 " wide pitched to exhaust thru the hood,.??,Ill post a pic ASAP. Thanks Frank
Fans setup to be pushers, flip them around and you'll have much better luck. Hard to push air through objects, it works much better creating low pressure behind the object and drawing it through.
If you need a physical example try pushing a rope. You will spend an eternity trying and get anywhere besides creating a big pile on the ground. If you pull it, very easy to get it where and how you want it to go.
That's a nice radiator. You should have no problems with cooling a FG33. Looks like its a front to back double pass. I would change the fans to be pullers like 914forme said.
Thanks,..Iam hoping to flip my fans over this weekend,get my engine in place and start to wire it up,..plus ,get my rad system completed, I will mount the pressure can and the overflow bottle in the front trunk area,only problem is my bleeder valve is on the bottom of this radiator so not sure if I can burb it as I need to with that design. ??
Or break a hose clamp loose to bleed which is messy and dangerous to your pets health so don't leave it pooled on the ground. You could get a head start on it by pre-filling the radiator. BTW, I measured those fans and they're too wide; each 13"W.
vacuum bleed the system is the only way to get it the first time. Used to do this with all the ricer crap that came through the shop. Even with the bleeders the Civics where horrendous for not getting all the air out. Started to vacuum bleed the systems, and problem went away.
They are pretty cheap and worth it in the long run
Thanks 76-914,.appreciate the effort.
914forme, I found a inline radiator splice that has a presure cap on it was going to try and fill the system from the outlet side,run engine and burb with the presure cap,.Ill try and capture a picture of it dodges use them but they are made of plastic...
I'd use this as it has space to catch air...
with one of these from a HD/Lowes...
Pretty much the radiator bleeding setup of my first water cooled 914.
Or install a brake bleeder valve so you can use a wrench instead of your hand to bleed off the air from the hot coolant...
Ahh thats a good Idea Thanks
I've got Schroeder valve in mine.
You can also use a VW Deathstar and make the system self bleeding.
The larger connector goes to the inlet side of hte pump using a Tee fitting. The top taps from the pressure side of the engine with a smaller Tee. Put it high, and it will create a self bleeding system, pretty simple. And it has a fitting for coolant level monitoring so, you wire it up and you'll know when you need to add more coolant to make up for the air you sucked out of the system.
You can do the same idea in Aluminum and other materials also.
914forme,..is that the VW beetle tank..??
and BigKat yes good catch didnt even look at that ,but yes I can now switch those 2 around and have a bleeder on top...Thanks Frank
914forme,..is there a bracket that goes with that ???
Yes Pick and pull is your best bet. Some have the mount flange in plastic just bolts to the car. Some have a metal cage to Keep it in place. Majority of 1990s to 2010 VWs have them.
spent about 4 hrs trying to install my engine and cradel ( Ian Cradle) kinda of a disappointment,first stk exhaust does not clear like he said it would,and now the tranny ends are to wide apart,..Should have listen to ChrisH. So best course of action ,NOT sure yet really stalled my progress for sure...
That is why I built my own. And well because I wanted to do the installation at least 20 times.
It is so nice to see an engine in the car for the first time
yes,..Thanks my problem is I cant weld,dont have a shop or a lift,or the tools..Oh yea a little lite on brain power too,..LOL Ill find a way to bring thos ends togather
Now for the exhaust can I have a spacer made, it needs to drop about 3/4 of a Inch
Outfront makes 2 different headers for the EG33. One set that exits to the front of the engine and another that exits to the rear. This is for rear or mid engine buggys.
If you used the front exits the header would be pointed forward to the front of the car. Then you could fab up a smaller pipe and muffler around the mount you have pictured.
You shot yourself in the foot by selling those small car mounts think you would have been way better of with them.
Looking at the picture of the cradle. It is supposed to be on the topside of your tranny ears. Looks to me if it is sitting up at the mounts. It doesn't look that off to me? As will when it is up higher. Maybe I am seeing it all wrong too. Sorry to see your having trouble there. I've got his cradle as well. Haven't gotten everything mounted up yet
Isn't Ians cradle designed to be used with the Subie transmission as well? Not to mention a 4cyl or the EZ30 style 6 instead of the EG33... I know mods can be made and this is one that's gonna need some work.
Iam pretty sure Ian site said EG33 Iam sure I can get the ends pulled together,Its the damn exhaust set-up that really screws me at this point.could I use a spacer on the exhaust manifold to drop them a bit I need about 3/4 of and inch.
The Coldwater is fine for every Subaru engine except the EG33. There are two problems with it that would be pretty hard to correct. That's why mine is hanging on the wall of my garage.
1. The exhaust. Unless you want to get some headers custom made to clear it's not going to work.
2. The engine is too far forward, nearly touching the firewall. You'll have a hell of a time plumbing it that way.
Renegade Hybrids has a cradle for a 901 setup but I agree with Bob, you should consider the smallcar mount attached to either an early engine mount bar or something like that. Take a look at the way amenson did his. You could drill a couple of holes and bolt it to the mount bar, then take it somewhere to get it professionally welded.
Don't give up Frank! This is a normal part of the process.
Chris H. Yea Thanks,just aggravated !!
Jrust ,I honestly dont know if they are suppose to mount first and then the tranny is installed.
BigKat83 : I didnt sell the small car parts,they sent me a piece that didn NOT clear my oil filter,so they said to use a smaller( 4 Cyl subaru ) filter but it didnt work either,..
Now what if I modify the EG33 engine mounts I could possible gain 1 and a quarter inches,if I get rid of the thick black isolator part and use a smaller polyurathane bushing ,..???
I need the cradle to sit correctly before I can truely know if moding the engine mounts would work to make my exhaust clear So I gotta get that tranny mounted correctly first..
if you are trying to narrow the mounting ears of a tube framed cradle, only way to do it correctly is cut it and reweld.
if you're looking to torque or bend those 1.5" I seriously doubt it will move that much; it also won't be a symmetrical alignment.
yea,..I thought so aswell,I was just trying anything I could do,.at home to try and resolve,.I didnt know how springie that tubing could be...Thanks..
Jmitro,..what if I tention those tubes and then heat them up alittle do you think that (might) bring them in a little bit,.???? Thanks
You can do that. I'd use heat sticks if you can get some. Otherwise heat just until it gets an ashy looking dull red in color. Do not get it cherry red or it will lose it's temper and become annealed. This is best seen in low light levels.
76-914,..I have never heard of heat sticks,.ill ck them out.. Thanks
I am sure they are supposed to attach direct to the tranny mount. Above the tranny ears. For the suby tranny you have to get Hangars that drop down to the lower tranny mounts on the suby trans.
Hopefully there is someone who has a 901 using the cradle out there. I found a picture from Ray's with his ez30 & suby trans
Frank, perhaps I can offer my welding skills. I'm just east of you in Benson. If we can get good dimensions, i can cut and reweld for you as long as it's not stainless.
Shoot me a PM if interested.
I would caution against trying to bend the tube frame. I have Ian's first gen cradle and am beta testing his second revision and a recurring issue I see is high stresses at the welds. Forcing a bend there isn't going to help anything.
does that mean I have to worry about his welds cracking???
Jrust ,you were correct,I wanted to make double sure,.If I had a mounting problem I did change the cradle ears to on top of the tranny ears and it pitched enough to fit and mount Exhaust ,plus the exhaust pipes are bent just enough to run under the cross bar,..Man,What a GREAT day today was,...Thanks !!!! Sure glad I checked ..!! Frank
Plus, My Apologies to Ian,..!!!!!
Check your clearance closely. The engine will lift up when accelerating and go down when decelerating. Your cutting a Fat Hog in the Ass now. Shouldn’t be too much longer.
if you have a chance, can you post a few pics from directly under the exhaust manifolds so we can see what kind of clearance you have? and some from sides too?
note that it is best to use what you have initially, as you can always address individual areas later on.
Sure Jim NP. Tomorrow
Until you get it on the ground and under weight you won't really know if low works. On the EG the stock pan hangs low, as does the stock exhaust manifolds.
So my suggestion would be bolt it up loose and see what you get on the ground.
IF to low for your comfort you might have to go higher. Just remember to put the larger washer up top, just incase the mount fails the large washer will hit the top of the mount, and keep the engine cradle from dragging the ground.
Thanks 914forme,..I actually doubled the large washer,1 top side and 1 for the bottom,..I have the car sitting on car ramps,with cradle mounted and so the suspension is being compressed now,I let that sit till next weekend,I need to run wires,finish the rad plumbing,.get Fuel hooked ETC... Thanks Frank
You can measure it as it sits just a bit of simple math.
Take the heights of the ramps front and back as they are different. And measure the bottom of the donuts. Then move around and start looking at what is bellow the donuts, and subtract the ramp heights and you have close to the street height for all these points.
This should give you a semi accurate guess of what will be going on once off the ramps.
And hopefully you have the clearance you are looking for. And then we could get into a discussion about stance, proper suspension geometry, and other little issues.
BTW, once you get this running ditch the KYBs - they absolutely suck. I ran them back when I was a teenager and could not afford better. But that was a long time ago and well I since learned what a good set of shocks can do.
Keep up the great work, your making some awesome progress here.
From your pic of the rear it looks like you may have enough clearance to run your pipes up and over that last horizontal piece of the cradle. With more pics of the different angles we may see something different but congrats on the new fit - progress is always good!
IIRC, I used 5.5" as min ground clearance which was the distance from ground to the bottom of those plastic air flaps.
914forme...What shocks would U recommend
Bilsteins or Konis for shocks. Bilsteins are probably all-around better, Konis have the adjustability (which most won't use).
I use the 911 sport mounts flipped up with washers to get a bit more ground clearance on my lowered car without any issues.
The other tubes with small wires coming out are for the heater boxes and I don'kt thin they'll line up very neatly with where the throttle cable should do. They also likely have too aggressive a bend radius to fit the threaded portion of the throttle cable through.
No Jim its off a bit the rod is bent to hell,but may work .Iam really thinking of going with a cable system..
thanks Rnellums,. I forgot about the heater boxes..
Okay this has been bugging me, and it is me, stuff like this bugs me.
In this picture where the arrow points is this due the angle of the picture or is it off? Not saying Ian stuff is off, as the stuff I had of his was top notch. And fit with in tolerances that I expeceted
Also if I remember correctly the stock EG Exhaust Manifolds are that they dump very close to the tubes. On Ian's cradle there are two tubes in that area that triangulate the joint.
Can you get around that yes, but not with out a bit of welding. https://smallcar.com/vanagon/subaru-vanagon-conversion-parts/3.3l-exhaust-flange.html. Ouffront sells headers or used too for the EG in a mid engine configuration. Outfront stuff fits much better, Chris H. has them in his build thread.
https://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/outfront-motorsports-parts-and-services/all/(714) 994-5222 very easy to deal with over the phone. http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/primary_tubes.htm
Small car does an excellent job also, I use their stuff all the time.
Answer your question you asked me.
Street - minor track usage Bilsteins. If you go wild on the rear spring rate it will require the Bilsteins be revolved.
Koni - Auto-X Race and then Street.
I autocross for years on Bilsteins, they will work.
To be honest, about anything is better than the KYBs Boge, Bilstein, Koni, Fox, Penske, I would slap a set of Autozone specials onto the car before I would use the KYBs, lol
The reasoning is the way KYBs function. The valve systems is supposed to adjust to bumps and increase the dampening after repeated bumps. Interesting concept, but the test track must have been butter smooth with a couple of repeated bumps. On the street what happens is the car moves about, every turn, bump, transition, even you just moving your butt in the seat. It all causes these valves to start increasing damping as it was meant to. Issue is that they never seem to reset back to base line, so over a period of time, they actually become almost solid. Yeah they still move a bit, yet if used in the thigh master poor Susan Sommers would have had thighs bigger than Arnold in his Mister Atlas days. It just does not work in reality as it was proposed to work in concept.
Koni, and Bilsteins can be sent out for rebuilding if you find a pair very cheap.
As of now, I run Bilsteins on my 914-6 it is a street car, that could be auto-crossed or tracked if I wanted to. I run Koni's on my 914EG project which I prefer to autocross , and track, and it gets driven on the street. Mainly driven on the street to get to the events.
914forme,...when I first fit the cradle nothing lined up and the tranny ears were off to the outside by 1.5 inches,So I used threaded rod to bring in the ears,...Then Jrust mentioned I was fitting it wrong,..cradle ears were suppose to be on top of the 901 ears,since I refitted the cradle, the cradle ears are now 1.5 inches to far in...So now I need to spread them open to fit,..No instruction's on how to fit the cradle caused me to guess,..Guessed wrong,as usual,..!!! Fits fine and clears the stk exhaust also, !!
76-914,..I may change in the future I have been looking at this car since 2014 it needs to get on the ground and run, I can always upgrade later...Thanks tho, Frank
if you decide to go with suby trans, i have these. i agree, projects can drag on
I hope to get the rad system hooked up this weekend,using this Moroso canister,does the canister feed line go to the inlet side or the outlet side. ?? my Tee fitting fits the smaller return line ,not the larger inlet line. Thanks Frank[attachmentid=634754]
this site mentioned in the past may be helpful?
The bottom opening goes on the suction side/inlet side.
The best place to hook up the bottom line coming off of your coolant tank is at the water pump. There is a 5/8 line there that you can tee in to. You might want to put the canister in the engine bay so it's at the highest point possible.
Ah,.ok,..Thanks Chris,..and 76-914..I didn't think about the suction factor.
Agree with Chris engine compartment. You can run a line back from the top of the rad, into the puck tank, and complete the system.
sweet,..Rad system,Fuel system this weekend,run wires next weekend,clutch and throttle cables,by end of month I would hope to start trouble shooting why it doesn't run,..LOL Thanks Frank
Jrust,...page 12 post # 233 shows me pulling these 2 ears together, with a threaded rod because I installed the cradle ears at the bottom of the tranny ears then I belive U said nope they go on the top of the tranny ears So in doing that everything fit,..
Now I must spread the cradle ears to fit the tranny ears, which I shall be doing this weekend...FM
Rent a portapower, and you can push it back into place.
Been following this build, small car makes header that should work for your set up and I would def ditch the 901. I was on the fence like you were. But after all the research it just seems like the most practical trans for the job.
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