Should be fun!
I hope you still plan on adding radiator exhaust holes in the front trunk, those vents won't work alone that you have for the hood.
Scratch HOPE and replace with Blood, sweat & tears. Press on.
Yes ,I plan to do a much larger area on the hood,or maybe a diffant style altogether Iam just sizing those up,..rad system in place already, I need to install the gas tank ( I need the line fittings yet) I need the radiator and engine cooling hoses,. the engine cradle that's (in work), and ECU finalized,.then fuel pump, ETC..
Nice! Looks like Frank has mastered posting pics! Another 3.3 conversion will be cool. I'm about to go take a lap in mine in the cool air.
A "cradle" would have to be custom made because it's tough to work it around the exhaust system. Pretty much the only Subaru engine I've seen that has that issue. I can send you some pics of my engine mount setup. Bigkat made it. Mine is an early -4 mount up front with some L shaped angled pieces welded to it and trans hangers at the back. The middle is wide open. Key is you have to have a really good welder attach the additional pieces and they have to be VERY strong metal. Most of the weight of the engine is up front. Mine's been hanging in there for 3 years.
Hi Chris,..Iam going the smallcar route I think,..get there side pieces,.then weld the cross bar to match,..
I do need help with the fuel tank set-up I have new stainless steel lines installed but I don't have the fittings for the tank,..?? Suggestions Pls,...
You have stainless lines from Tangerine Racing? You can use rubber (or whatever it's made of) fuel injection hose to connect to the tank. That looks like a later car so both lines should be the same size. 8mm, so I think that's 5/16 at the local auto parts store. Just make sure it's HIGH PRESSURE fuel hose.
Unless you bought the ones with the screw-type AN fittings on the ends? If so post pics of what you have and where you got it.
No,..not from Tangerine,..P.O installed them ,.I will get pics for tomorrow,...Thanks
Ooooooo... Can I come help?
Problem is that I'm gone a lot of weekends but feel free to coordinate with me if you need some help
That's it? Just the tank fittings? No tunnel lines or anything? One is stock, the other is an -AN fitting. Really should go one way or the other. Let us know and we'll go from there.
Pm Bruce Stone (Bdstone) to get the correct fitting. Rotary914 has the washers. So your going to run the pump exposed? Walbro? Some of the Suby stock pumps are Walbro.
I'm curious about the 300HP, not sure how an EG will get you there in a stock form. Now if you do a few tricks, proper headers, cams, E85, boost then we get closer to 300. The last one will get you well above 300.
That being said I have tabled my power plans to blow the EG. I was going to run a blower an E85. After this weekend and not finding E85 on the roads around Okteenerfest. I really don't want to haul around a truck bed full of E85 just to be able to go
So if you got a way of getting 300+ HP, I will be
Even if you don't I'll be
Another EG33 build
Well, I only say 300 HP,..because I have heard u can,..the only mods I will do is new injectors,and the ZF34 mod,.and maybe cams in the future,..
when it comes to the gas tank fittings,.I don't know what to use,..the PO had this set up,..I need to know what to do,.??
Sorry Chris,..yes I have tunnel lines 2 ea,installed.I belive 1 will be blocked off due to no return line right.??
Yes,..once I get it to move down the street,.I will then ( if I have the $$$) go after those mod's...
They are steel and no fittings attached at all,..either end he just ran the lines,..did the peddel cluster rebuild,.and stopped,..then I bought her,...Pic's in the AM.!!
That's good. Then you probably want do what Kent said and replace that threaded fitting on your tank with another stock one. Bruce Stone or Garold Shaffer are good sources for that. Then you can use high pressure fuel injection hoses up front to connect to the fuel lines in the tunnel (both should be 5/16 from a FLAPS). The fuel pump mounts up front under the tank too if you use the Walbro like I did. Fits well in the stock location.
Post some pics anyway just so we see what you have for tunnel lines.
Going AN has it's place, but it gets expensive very quickly. Read lots of $$$$$ to do correctly and for a street car, it is way over kill.
Good luck with the build, one other thing you might want to consider is engine seals. It is a lot easier to do these while out of the car. In a 914 it is easier than doing them in the SVX. I know this from experience
Thanks 914forme,..I wasnt sure I needed it,..how is it installed,..??
spoke to soon,...I ck'd website..its the fuel screen, correct,..????
Yes the fuel screen, they get crude up, easy enough to check if you need one. All you need is hose, like Chris suggested. And a new fitting for under the tank.
BTW, the small car mount is available as just the mounts - just have to call them. It is what I used on mine. First version as a -4 style using early -4 bar. Second version went to the firewall. Like a Patric Motorsports -6 mount. It is a -6 after all. Makes it easier to get the clearance to put the EG in with out cutting the trunk. Chris did the flipped manifold on his conversion. I had room but never do anything the easy way. :headband:
Also you might want to take a die and run it down the outside of the lines. Gives the hose a little something to grab onto. They just have to be roughed up a bit. Most people don't have beading tools to make them proper.
Yeps those ARE Tangerine Racing tunnel fuel lines. Good news there. The Walbro pump mounts up front in the stock location as I mentioned. 5/16 high pressure FI hose...get plenty so you can leave some slack if you want to pull the tank up without undoing the lines.
Got your PM, I will send some pics of my mount setup. The -6 mount setup is a great way also. Even more room.
Ahh,..I didnt think of roughing the lines,..But I will for sure now,..I do intend to flip the intake,..the guy from the svx site is making spacers again ,..So Iam waiting for him,.. to get a set,...
who makes the -6 mount,..I would at least look at it..??
Here is my next major issue some ends are terminated and some are not,..I really need a plug and play harness,..But, I also want to try and pin my original chassis harness to accept parts of this SVX harness is that even possible ??
For about $600, my guy made a plug and play harness for my svx harness and the fan on the radiator
I would love that info pls,...Thanks FM
where can I get the engine and tranny mounts needed for my 3.3 conversion,..they used to be called sport mounts but I just see regular engine mounts listed on pelican,..?? TIA, FM
Ok,..I have the fuel tank fitting's on the way Thanks BDstone...Now when I was taking off the the old fitting it was hard to turn,.so I WD-40 it for about 5 days ,.then it twisted off,.but it wasn't really threaded on all the way ,..so when I install my newer fittings do they screw on easy or are they suppose to have some resistance?? I don't want to strip those threads tank or fittings..TIA FM
Also engine brackets will be here next week,.(small car)So I can stage the engine ,..sent harness out to be terminated,hopefully back in a month,!!!
Ok,..the next set of questions now
A.can I use a straight shifting tube from tangerine,.as in the 914-6 shifting tube,..
B. safest way to check fuel flow once the tank and pump are set-up
C. and can I make my own intake spacers,so I can flip my intake..??
You really decide on the shift tube once the engine and trans are in the car and the headers are mounted on the engine. Then you can tell what shape your shift rod will need to be. Trying to guess before you have the 3D picture will be a waste of time. Same with the exhaust. Until the engine is mounted in the car, you don't really know what you need.
And you're not using a Subaru trans?
correct no Suby trans..
OK Thanks Mepstein,..hope to have it all mocked up or placed within 2 weeks..Thanks FM
Hi Chris,..I was curious if I could use a 914-6 straight shift rod,..don't the -6 use the 901 tranny ??,..
how many hours does it take to flip the intake,..?? TIA Frank
It takes (at least) a few hours and a lot of patience to flip the intake. ThePaintedMan's thread shows some very good tips and tricks. I removed some of the small vacuum lines that were interfering with the flip and replaced them with soft lines to make it easier. I also rerouted the fuel lines a bit.
The cost of using a 901 trans is almost the same as a Subaru 5MT, and the 5MT shifts like a modern car. It also bolts right up to the EG33. With a 901 you have to get an adapter plate, and sometimes modify the linkage. The 901 is a fine trans and I'd use it with anything I could bolt it right up to, but not with an adapter. Too many other options these days. You do have to install a hydraulic clutch but that is well documented here.
You pay for shipping I'll send you a Sub MT5 Trans, I have a few spares now. You will just need a spool and rear cover, everything is ready to go.
I even have a set of axles I will toss into the deal, cut them or have them resplined. I am not suing them because I plan on doing with my 914.
Do yourself a huge favor and goto the subaru transmission.
I would go for that deal if it was meant for me,..?? Thanks Frank
Wow that's a huge donation Steve. GO FOR THAT DEAL FRANK!!!!
Aldo Frank, wait until you get the stuff before you order any clutch parts. The clutch, pressure plate, flywheel all are matched to the trans, not the engine. You don't have any of that since the SVX is automatic. You just have a flex plate which you won't use. You also need longer bolts for bolting the flywheel on. We'll get to that later.
Even tho I saved the thread,..I cant find it now,..
I need to know the company that makes the water line adapter's Jaguar something,..?? Could someone pls remind me ?? Thanks FM
Ahh Yes,..Thank You Sir..!!! FM
where can I find exhaust flanges,..I need 2 flanges ,..to fit my 911 banana style muffler,..the 2 in 1 out type,..not sure how this will sound,..should I also install,..something before the muffler,..I was just going to run straight pipes into it,.??? FM
meaning I should not use anything before the 911 muffler keep straight pipes...
That will keep your backpressure to a minimum and you can judge the sound quality from there. If the seat of the pants feeling is good for you and it sounds cool, go ahead and keep it. If not, you can go in another direction depending on what the issues are. I've already got plans for my 3.3 in the exhaust dept. and I've still got some figuring to do. The banana might just be what you want and I'd love to hear it when you've got it running!
Yes,..No problem with that,..I will certainly get to ya,...Frank
You will need a different muffler, as there is just no room back there for the banana, once you go Subaru trans. I guess you could highly modify the banana, anything is possible,,
This will give you an idea of how much room you'll have to work with.
A small hijack here - Kent, what axles are you using?
Subaru Inside and some combo of outside Porsche CVs. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=201776&hl=Build%20%20Thread&st=220The Discussion starts at post 220.
"Inner CV = FEMALE Subie (2002-2004) which is fine for you because your trans already has stub axles so it's set up for female CVs
Axle = Ians or re-splined 914 axle on one side to accept said Subie CV
Outer = the stock 914 CV....or you could upgrade to 944 if you pop a stock CV or two."
Sometimes asking is faster than research - Thanks!
My next quest....is setting up the water system,..I would like to know where do ya get the reducers for the hoses,..I think,. I would keep factory hose and then plumb from my 3/4 " steel line to the factory inlet and outlet hose's correct ??? Thanks, as always,..!!!! Frank
Great Thanks,..!!!,....Well, I had someone install steel line's under the car,..He has a chevy V8,.and his is set up the same way,.. and he said his temps are fine even in the summer,..Ill get a real measurement,..on those line's,..But I do have a large 3 row radiator .??
SS or steel? If steel I would recommend using some anode plugs in your cooling system.
Steel,..he's had them on his for about 6 yrs I think,..how would I install anode plugs,....
P.S.,.Harness may be completed soon,..he started it today...!!
Yeah measure those Frank. Don't think a V8 would do well at all with 3/4 lines. Probably 1" or larger.
Great news on the harness. You're skipping the hardest part. That's a good thing!
Can't remember where I saw them. I lost all of my bookmarks when my laptop took a shit months back. Maybe Jags that Run. They're ips threaded so you'd need a tee to screw them in. Does your friends car have a CI block? If so I'd think steel would be fine. You want t avoid a mix of metals that are so far apart on the Galvanic chart. Al is the more noble of the two metals and with steel tubes you've got enough mass to attract the Al. It will want to draw the Al to the steel and where will it come from? Your radiator or block. How quickly this happens depends upon the amount of energy i.e stray current. If you ran rubber hoses vs. steel I doubt you'd see any anodic reaction.
Yeah those should be fine. So you just need to look at the link I posted before and get the correct reducers. The engine inlets are 1.5" I think. Measure them to be sure. Don't forget to measure your radiator inlets too. They might be different than the engine since the rad is not stock.
Thanks Chris I will,...
They are shorter than the stock lines only because they are made of stainless steel rather than the plastic composite material the originals are made of, so of course they are not as flexible so the designer had to stop them there. Those are Tangerine Racing lines, and they either come as a 2 piece or 4 piece set. The 4 piece set has another length of stainless lines that run into the engine compartment connected with a small piece of FI hose to the tunnel lines. Mine are just like yours, just the tunnel lines, and I ran high pressure FI hose from there into the engine compartment. You can use 5/16 as a substitute for 8mm. Just make sure it's high pressure hose made for later model engines.
Here's a link to the lines you have:
They are the best thing out there to replace stock lines with.
yes, I have the 4 piece set,..Thanks,..Ill just secure them a different way,..on the fire wall
Over the holiday weekend I will attempt to fit the engine inplace and set up fuel line's and Rad lines and hope to get the crossbar installed and measured,..So I can get it welded up for perminet install. harness should be finished soon..!!!
would there be a smaller throttle body set up to use on this 3.3 so I don't have to flip intake or cut the trunk ???
No way to do it with the stock intake manifold. You're practically touching the rear firewall with the stock setup too. It has the iris valve and all, very unique to the SVX. Saw a custom one on the internet that was a tube design with a 70mm throttle body but it was built for a plane I think. They were more concerned with safe, reliable power than getting every last bit of performance out of it. Probably lose some horses with that setup.
Flipping the intake is not hard. Wish I'd tried a little harder the first time .
Yes it is easy to flip the stock intake.
I would disagree with the intake manifold. It helps more for the broader torque curve, but a properly tuned manifold will make more peak horsepower. It will just be across a very narrow RPM range. The advantage to IRIS is it broadens the drivability of the engine. Which helps on the street.
The manifold in question is more than likely seen on SDS' web site. The EG33 link is down. http://www.sdsefi.com/air12.html though, add a few runners. And they built the EG out of Aluminum.
Well, The harness will be on the way soon, a day or two,..he connected to a svx,..and it started ...So I hope mine will do the same ..!! I think I will have all the parts needed to start assembley,..Iam waiting for the spacers so I can flip my intake manifold,..If that dos'nt work out, that will just slow things up a bit , not stop the process ,.Then of course the gauge package...will be next !! right ?? Thanks Frank
Now that I have my harness back Thanks Jeff,..I would like to know how others have installed thier's its bigger that I thought it would be,..and also what is this item that has the bracket attached and where does it mount ?? Thanks Frank
Ahh,...Thank You ..!! Frank
How hard is this kinda swap and how costly is it?
I got lucky,..car 2500.00, engine with a 100k miles,trany adapter kit,transmission,and harness = 1500.00,.shipping to me 350.00,.then,.Radiator system and lines installed 1300.00,.finally I had to send the harness out to make sure it was terminated correctly,and fan harness that totaled 650.00 ,..So ,..total so far with some Misc. items about 6650.00. over a 2 year period.And I now need a engine mount that will total 300.00,..then exhaust system yet to be fabbed ,I have a 911 banana style muffler I intend to use also,..so now total is about 7K...FM
And Thank U,... 914pipe
when trying to install the fuel pump for my 3.3 build,..I have only found 1 factory wire in that compartment, Do I simply use a ground wire to the lid or body from the fuel pump it self,..?? TIA Frank
I'll look today Frank. Happen to have my fuel pump cover off. Long story involving me dropping my phone down the space between the tank and the body
Oh...Great Thanks !!! Frank
I had to take my tank out today, so here's a nice pic for you.
As you can see there is a ground wire connected to the pump, then connected to a spade attached to the body under the tank. If your spade is missing just ground it well to the body.
OH..Ok,..Damn that blows ya had to pull the tank,..damn phones,..!! Thanks,..
I hate to ask I will be needed how to connect fuel lines to engine advice...Soon...Thanks !!!! so much...Frank
No a problem. Very easy to set up the fuel lines. I actually had to pull the tank to put my fresh air box back in. Was able to fish the phone out through the fuel pump hole but could not see the ground wire through it.
took 5 seconds
r towle....Thanks...Iam just not that computor literiate
it hits the small car bracket and wont line up ??
I thought it would be very close to the cross member not beyond it
Your on the right path, the idea with the small car is that you will need to cut the mount and mount it over an early style bar. I think I have detailed shots of mine in my build thread.
I made two of them
And I suppose that's why the oil filter wont screw on either,..I will ck that out,.I thought it was to short ,..not to long but I do fell better,I would still love a cradle..lol
cradles are over rated
Well I was hoping to just bolt it in and be done,..But I can see now that's not the case ..
BUT,..My oil filter will not screw on either is that the result of the brackets being to long ??
I'am about to start my intake flip,I will be using the subie chip to eliminate the EGR system,and I will be using the spacer kit from X35 design.
1. I DON'T know how much of the EGR system to remove.( i dont have the chip yet )
2. I don't know how to do the ALT bracket
3. Is there a shorter crank pulley I can install on the 3.3..???
4. Thanks to all that can help...!!!! Frank
yes it works fine.
WOW,..I would have never thought it could handle the weight,..Thank U,..!!
Any thought on my previous post about removing the EGR system..??
You use the rear hook spot, and I use a bolt up front to balance it all out.
You just block the EGR, with a steel plate, and a plug in the manifold if your using the stock exhaust manifolds. Since I did not keep the stock ECU, it might kick codes. Not sure
yes,.Iam using the stk manifolds,..and the stock ECU,..But I will be chipping the ECU to stop those codes,.
are you using 914 trans?
Yes,..On the trans,..jim
Trying to do the intake flip, not sure what stays and what goes
I am guessing that U open the harness,.( more slack from harness)to reconnect ,connector's,..and then buy new generic hose to then refit them as needed,..Am I any where near correct ?? Thanks Frank
Are there any companies that make original color dye's for Porsche interior color's,Plus I cant get rid of the stains on this horn pad,.any Suggestion's
Go to a auto paint store and get a couple of cans of SEM interior spray. They should have it in almost any color. These were black and have held up good for the last 15yrs.
Yea, I could not remember his name/
write up from my home computer, Thanks !!!!
Regarding the steering wheel, you can hit that with some SEM dye too (like the seats).
Thanks for the Dye tips,..Bigkat and AZ914 I will do just that,.!!! WOW 15 yrs that's great,..
would it be safe to mount the Subaru ECU, next the the battery just like the original ECU or should I mount inside the cabin,..I didn't really want to drill a 2 in whole in the fire wall if I didn't need to ?? Thanks ,..Frank
yea,..I kinda wanted to hide it a little better if possible,it's better than under the seat that's for sure !!
Subaru ECUs are mounted inside the cabin, not water tight. Drop it in the trunk, easiest. Or extend the harness and move it to the cabin.
I'd put it in the trunk. You need a little protection but no need for it to be sealed water tight. If you extend the wires you have to use high quality stranded shielded wire for many of them. It makes for a very fat harness to pass through the firewall. The shielded wires for the cam and crank sensors are very sensitive. Any significant signal leakage will cause it to run poorly.
I'd think the harness is long enough to put in the cabin, possibly between the seats either on the floor or the back. Easy enough to cover with a shield and some sort of material or pad. That's what I'm planning...
Yea,..I don't really want to pull the interior out,.I will be working on it this weekend,..and I hope its not to hot,if I had 40 straight hours and cooler temps I could be very close to turning the key,barring complications of course
Chris914n6,...why do I need the fuse panel,.Iwas expecting to wire it thru my chassis harness and use my existing fuse panel...??
40 plus yr. old wiring with those crappy fuses and no room for relays? Nope... not for me. Play with the wiring lengths that you have, see where you can go, and fit it as safely as you can. If you need to have it in an exposed area, install it in a box where it can be accessed quickly and that's fairly waterproof. Preferably up high would be best.
Listen to these 2 guys. There both mechanics. You can't have too many fuses or grounds or relays. My Dakota Fan Controller instructions were quick to point out that the relays (switched & hot) could not share the same circuit or bouncing was likely. I experienced this once when I designed my own neutral safety switch. The computer went wild and so did the idle circuit. I didn't know why then but now I understand. This is what happens when a plumber ventures into the electrical world.
So I need a fuse system for every wire I intend to use,.,( for instance) I run a starter wire to a fuse block or panel and then to the actual starter lug,.
I thought fuses were for hi AMP draws,..?? Thanbks
Your ECU needs to be protected on the positive switched side and the positive Batt side. Any appurtenance that you're adding that requires 12V needs to be fused e.g. after market gages, radiator fans, fan controller, AC, etc. Fuses are sized to the wire size and the wires are sized according to load. I did not share fuses as the OEM setup is antiquated. You'll end up with 6-12 additional fuses depending upon additional circuits required. Hopefully your running a fused 8ga wire from the engine bay to the trunk for your fans.
yes my fans are all well fused ( That I knew about),.. I better get started on all the other fused items...Thanks for the Info..!!!! Frank
ECU wiring for a 97 Maxima. Suby likely pretty close being from the same design era & obd2. Basically any component that can short out gets it's own fuse, otherwise figuring out what failed would be a nightmare.
Fused distribution blocks cheap on ebay.
I essentially recreated the factory setup.
I also added an 8ga from battery to a distribution block next to the factory fuse panel, for the 2 fans and added electronics.
I also added about a dozen wires to the dash for VSS, water temp, fan triggers, a/c button, CEL, etc.
red = battery hot. orange = switched. yellow = start signal.
That's an excellent point Chris. I always just thought of it as "fuse anything you don't want to burn up". Never thought about it from a diagnostic stand point.
Thank You for that Diagram gives me some way to go,..
any idea on how to pull that cluch assy and adapter plate, should it be clutch first then plate or can I pull the adapter plate and the clutch should come with it .??? Thanks Frank
Clutch is behind the Pressure Plate which is bolted to the Flywheel which is bolted to the Crank which is not attached to the Adapter. The Adapter might slide over the Flywheel though it will be a tight fit.
Ah Yes,..ok Thank You !!
[quote name='Chris914n6' date='Sep 11 2017, 06:26 PM' post='2526733']
ECU wiring for a 97 Maxima. Suby likely pretty close being from the same design era & obd2. Basically any component that can short out gets it's own fuse, otherwise figuring out what failed would be a nightmare.
Fused distribution blocks cheap on ebay.
I essentially recreated the factory setup.
I also added an 8ga from battery to a distribution block next to the factory fuse panel, for the 2 fans and added electronics.
I also added about a dozen wires to the dash for VSS, water temp, fan triggers, a/c button, CEL, etc.
I didn't have to recreate anything, just adapt it to a few existing systems on the car. I pulled my stock wiring altogether and am using most of the harness from my SVX including the instrument cluster and the steering column similar to what Andyrew did. I intend to drive the car across the country and am basically a wimp, wanting to have as few issues as possible that I'm not familiar with. I'm not nearly as adventurous as most of the folks around here!
whats the best fuse panel to use ,..looking at classic-technologies.com version,.runs about 250.00..
That's not what you want. Stock fuse box works fine for chassis circuits, might need a good cleaning though.
All modern cars have a separate fuse box for drivetrain circuits. All you need is a couple distribution boxes (<$10 on ebay) and a few relays & sockets(<$5 each). I put all mine on a piece of scrap ABS to keep it neat. Other have screwed theirs straight to the sheetmetal.
Start with blueprinting the Suby engine harness, then you will know how many circuits you need to accommodate and if it's hot or ignition switch switched. There is a 911 male plug that fits into the 914 female plug at the stock engine bay fuse/relay panel that you can tap into for hot & switched & most of the gauges.
I am using a Nissan gauge cluster so I added wires for CEL and have lots of extra indicator lights so I added the fans, plus the VSS return to the ecu.
The Aux Air valve is the cold start fast idle valve. Powered from an 'Ignition on wire', the other wire can go to ground. A Bi-metal strip heats up to turn it off, and the idle slows to the normal 600 rpm idle. I've heard it's similar to the old Porsche CIS valve but being water cooled myself, I have no clue as to if that's true or not.
You can't run without it using the stock ECU if that's what you're wondering . It provides a lot more air (unmetered) at startup. Otherwise the engine is really hard to start when cold. You can move it somewhere else if it's causing issues with your intake flip. Just need to get different sized hoses.
Ahh...Thanks Chris...that's exactly my issue,..but not anymore..cool...
Being that my 3.3 has no distributor and if all my mark's are aligned on sprockets with the case and piston is top dead center,..is there such a thing as 180 Deg.( out ) or is that only for a distributed engine.
No.that piece will only attach one way between your crank and fly wheel. It's a round piece of aluminum about 3" diameter.
LOL,..what Iam asking is a timing question,if all my marks are lined up on the front sprockets and case of my Subaru 3.3 and my # 1 piston is at TDC can I still be 180 Deg. out I need to change my lower cam seals and I need to be sure things are lined up correctly,
No. Be sure to rotate the engine with the plugs removed to see if it spins freely and to be sure you aren't off on your marks. That is a "0" clearance engine and the valves will contact the pistons if your off.
To get to the lower cam seals you have to remove the timing belt pulleys. They only come off and go on one way. Just pick the old seals out and replace them. No need to disassemble the engine in any way. While you have the timing belt off do your main seal on the crank behind the pulley. That is the most common leak point. Mine leaked only when running which was a PITA.
The only way to your timing would be off would be if you reinstall the timing belt incorrectly. It's a non interference engine but still not good to run with the belt installed incorrectly. The factory manual shows how to get it aligned, or you can look in my build thread.
Got it,..Thank You..!!
Can I remove my 92 EGR system all together,.even if I drive in a colder winter climate ?? and have the stk ECU?? Thanks
I removed the hard vacuum lines and replaced them with soft lines, but if you got it to work with the hard lines go for it.
You may not get enough tension on the alternator belt unless you use the pulley to the left of the crank pulley. It has an adjuster on it. I used a Miata belt. 37.5 or something like that.
If you look at ThePaintedMan's thread you will see how we both had to slightly rotate the iris valve because it was hitting the coolant pipe. Just had to enlarge the hole a bit.
i thought eg33 was non interference?
It's non interference from all that I've studied but I'd still not want to lose a belt at speed - I'd think you'd bend up some parts.
Yes,..I did rotate the iris valve, my next thing is should I delete my EGR system,..Iam the reverse of you,being that Iam in Tucson, I will drive in winter and park in the summer,.
will this fuse panel solve all my electicial requirements for the suby upgrade I still intend to use the 914 chassis panel for the usual needs..Fuel pump and starter but the other suby ECU hook ups should run thought this panel correct,..??? Thanks Frank
I'd Shit can that old relay board if I were you. You'll need one for your Alternator, 1 for your radiator fans, 1 for your ECU, 1 for your starter solenoid, 1 for your fuel pump and a few extra for later add ons. Looks like you have enough relays. What are the amp ratings on those relays?
35 AMPs ea,...But Iam not sure if I could go larger
I want to use original fuse panel so I can tie into fuel pump and starter from chassis harness,..I have no experience in wiring so for now I just want it hooked to get it running then I can change thigs as needed.
First, I mistakingly said you need a relay for your alternator. You don't. Relays enable you to run smaller wires to switch or activate an item that draws a heavy amp load, i.e. fans, starters, or fuel pumps, etc. And are usually place near a larger energy source to supply those items just mentioned. You need to run a 12 or 14 ga wire up front thru the tunnel for your radiator fans. You currently have 2 large red wires that run through the tunnel from the battery. One goes to the steering column and the other to position #10 on your fuse panel. Both of these are unfused and it's a damned good idea to fuse them back at the battery. The Amp ratings on your new fuse board are plenty. What size wires are those on that panel? They may be large enough that you won't need to run an additional line through the tunnel.
EDIT: Or send me a link to where you purchased the board so I can check it out.
I found it at first on youtube,..looking for info on how to wire a panel and then I found that panel.under automotive waterproof fuse panels.
W/O a link to detrmine what size wires you have I'll guess yes. Based upon the assumption that there are 5 relay sockets and 10 fuse sockets and the relays are 40amp then surely 5 of those circuits would have at least 14ga or 12ga wires coming from them. You really need to know such things as the amp draw of your fans, distance from fans to power source, etc. The fans that I have on this SBC build draw 3.8 amps each so almost 8 amps. I would imagine some of the older fans off a Cadillac or similar might pull 6 amps or more. I wouldn't run anything smaller than 12 ga if your just shooting from the hip.
I spoke with the guy who built my harness,..I just need to run 8 gauge from front to the battery,My fan and Alt. is fused and relayed,just got to make the connection's
I have the KEP,Fly wheel for my conversion,BUT the presure plate bolts that were with the kit are loose when you thread them in,.SO I called them they sent new bolts and they also wiggle a little bit, is this normal for PP bolts they sent bolts and lock washers ??? TIA Frank
Lock washers are normal. They don't need to be really tight. Check the specs but probably 16-20 lbs ft. Good call on 8ga. You can never have to much available. Can you do an amp draw on those fans to check the demand?
76-914,. the bolts wiggle when I screw them in half way, they did supply lock washers Iam just nervous about those bolts, why do they fit loose like that is my concern,Iam sure they will torque ok but still,..and I would do a test on the AMP draw if I new how,.I guess hook them up and then test,.???
When I do an amp test I use an in line fuse between the +battery and in this case the + on the fan. Remove the fuse from the fuse holder then insert one lead from your test probe into each female spade fitting in the fuse holder. You need to set your multi meter to the "DC" amp setting which in my case means leaving the red lead on the common and moving the black lead to the AMP outlet on the multi meter.
Ahh Sweet, thanks I will ck that this weekend,...FM
Does the ECU control the fans? If so, you may need 3 relays if that schematic posted a few pages back is correct. I'm not familiar with the Subaru electrical, but it looks like you need a relay for the ECCS, three relays for your fans, one relay for your fuel pump, and I still love the idea of using one relay for the starter solenoid. This would relieve strain from the 914 ignition switch.
Yes, the ECU has fan controllers in it. Low speed and high speed. You would need 3 relays to control it, or you could just combine low and high. If I remember right, in a 2 fan scenario low speed turns one fan on, high speed kicks them both on.
High speed also is invoked when the AC circuit is activated. The moral is if for some reason your ECU thinks your AC is on, it will power the high speed circuit. And well you will be wondering why the fans are running.
Yes, you could use the AC wire as a switched source to power the fans manually if you wanted to.
I'll post pic's of my fan harness,But it is relayed and fused its ready to go,..I just gotta get them hooked up,..
I've got a set of the OEM 3 wire Subaru fans if you want them. They're too wide unless you mount them for a floor exhaust. That being said they are quite, powerful and yours for the cost of shipping.
Well,..Thank You for the offer !!! my Radiator set up measures out to be 11" tall and 25 " wide pitched to exhaust thru the hood,.??,Ill post a pic ASAP. Thanks Frank
Fans setup to be pushers, flip them around and you'll have much better luck. Hard to push air through objects, it works much better creating low pressure behind the object and drawing it through.
If you need a physical example try pushing a rope. You will spend an eternity trying and get anywhere besides creating a big pile on the ground. If you pull it, very easy to get it where and how you want it to go.
That's a nice radiator. You should have no problems with cooling a FG33. Looks like its a front to back double pass. I would change the fans to be pullers like 914forme said.
Thanks,..Iam hoping to flip my fans over this weekend,get my engine in place and start to wire it up,..plus ,get my rad system completed, I will mount the pressure can and the overflow bottle in the front trunk area,only problem is my bleeder valve is on the bottom of this radiator so not sure if I can burb it as I need to with that design. ??
Or break a hose clamp loose to bleed which is messy and dangerous to your pets health so don't leave it pooled on the ground. You could get a head start on it by pre-filling the radiator. BTW, I measured those fans and they're too wide; each 13"W.
vacuum bleed the system is the only way to get it the first time. Used to do this with all the ricer crap that came through the shop. Even with the bleeders the Civics where horrendous for not getting all the air out. Started to vacuum bleed the systems, and problem went away.
They are pretty cheap and worth it in the long run
Thanks 76-914,.appreciate the effort.
914forme, I found a inline radiator splice that has a presure cap on it was going to try and fill the system from the outlet side,run engine and burb with the presure cap,.Ill try and capture a picture of it dodges use them but they are made of plastic...
I'd use this as it has space to catch air...
with one of these from a HD/Lowes...
Pretty much the radiator bleeding setup of my first water cooled 914.
Or install a brake bleeder valve so you can use a wrench instead of your hand to bleed off the air from the hot coolant...
Ahh thats a good Idea Thanks
I've got Schroeder valve in mine.
You can also use a VW Deathstar and make the system self bleeding.
The larger connector goes to the inlet side of hte pump using a Tee fitting. The top taps from the pressure side of the engine with a smaller Tee. Put it high, and it will create a self bleeding system, pretty simple. And it has a fitting for coolant level monitoring so, you wire it up and you'll know when you need to add more coolant to make up for the air you sucked out of the system.
You can do the same idea in Aluminum and other materials also.
914forme,..is that the VW beetle tank..??
and BigKat yes good catch didnt even look at that ,but yes I can now switch those 2 around and have a bleeder on top...Thanks Frank
914forme,..is there a bracket that goes with that ???
Yes Pick and pull is your best bet. Some have the mount flange in plastic just bolts to the car. Some have a metal cage to Keep it in place. Majority of 1990s to 2010 VWs have them.
spent about 4 hrs trying to install my engine and cradel ( Ian Cradle) kinda of a disappointment,first stk exhaust does not clear like he said it would,and now the tranny ends are to wide apart,..Should have listen to ChrisH. So best course of action ,NOT sure yet really stalled my progress for sure...
That is why I built my own. And well because I wanted to do the installation at least 20 times.
It is so nice to see an engine in the car for the first time
yes,..Thanks my problem is I cant weld,dont have a shop or a lift,or the tools..Oh yea a little lite on brain power too,..LOL Ill find a way to bring thos ends togather
Now for the exhaust can I have a spacer made, it needs to drop about 3/4 of a Inch
Outfront makes 2 different headers for the EG33. One set that exits to the front of the engine and another that exits to the rear. This is for rear or mid engine buggys.
If you used the front exits the header would be pointed forward to the front of the car. Then you could fab up a smaller pipe and muffler around the mount you have pictured.
You shot yourself in the foot by selling those small car mounts think you would have been way better of with them.
Looking at the picture of the cradle. It is supposed to be on the topside of your tranny ears. Looks to me if it is sitting up at the mounts. It doesn't look that off to me? As will when it is up higher. Maybe I am seeing it all wrong too. Sorry to see your having trouble there. I've got his cradle as well. Haven't gotten everything mounted up yet
Isn't Ians cradle designed to be used with the Subie transmission as well? Not to mention a 4cyl or the EZ30 style 6 instead of the EG33... I know mods can be made and this is one that's gonna need some work.
Iam pretty sure Ian site said EG33 Iam sure I can get the ends pulled together,Its the damn exhaust set-up that really screws me at this point.could I use a spacer on the exhaust manifold to drop them a bit I need about 3/4 of and inch.
The Coldwater is fine for every Subaru engine except the EG33. There are two problems with it that would be pretty hard to correct. That's why mine is hanging on the wall of my garage.
1. The exhaust. Unless you want to get some headers custom made to clear it's not going to work.
2. The engine is too far forward, nearly touching the firewall. You'll have a hell of a time plumbing it that way.
Renegade Hybrids has a cradle for a 901 setup but I agree with Bob, you should consider the smallcar mount attached to either an early engine mount bar or something like that. Take a look at the way amenson did his. You could drill a couple of holes and bolt it to the mount bar, then take it somewhere to get it professionally welded.
Don't give up Frank! This is a normal part of the process.
Chris H. Yea Thanks,just aggravated !!
Jrust ,I honestly dont know if they are suppose to mount first and then the tranny is installed.
BigKat83 : I didnt sell the small car parts,they sent me a piece that didn NOT clear my oil filter,so they said to use a smaller( 4 Cyl subaru ) filter but it didnt work either,..
Now what if I modify the EG33 engine mounts I could possible gain 1 and a quarter inches,if I get rid of the thick black isolator part and use a smaller polyurathane bushing ,..???
I need the cradle to sit correctly before I can truely know if moding the engine mounts would work to make my exhaust clear So I gotta get that tranny mounted correctly first..
if you are trying to narrow the mounting ears of a tube framed cradle, only way to do it correctly is cut it and reweld.
if you're looking to torque or bend those 1.5" I seriously doubt it will move that much; it also won't be a symmetrical alignment.
yea,..I thought so aswell,I was just trying anything I could do,.at home to try and resolve,.I didnt know how springie that tubing could be...Thanks..
Jmitro,..what if I tention those tubes and then heat them up alittle do you think that (might) bring them in a little bit,.???? Thanks
You can do that. I'd use heat sticks if you can get some. Otherwise heat just until it gets an ashy looking dull red in color. Do not get it cherry red or it will lose it's temper and become annealed. This is best seen in low light levels.
76-914,..I have never heard of heat sticks,.ill ck them out.. Thanks
I am sure they are supposed to attach direct to the tranny mount. Above the tranny ears. For the suby tranny you have to get Hangars that drop down to the lower tranny mounts on the suby trans.
Hopefully there is someone who has a 901 using the cradle out there. I found a picture from Ray's with his ez30 & suby trans
Frank, perhaps I can offer my welding skills. I'm just east of you in Benson. If we can get good dimensions, i can cut and reweld for you as long as it's not stainless.
Shoot me a PM if interested.
I would caution against trying to bend the tube frame. I have Ian's first gen cradle and am beta testing his second revision and a recurring issue I see is high stresses at the welds. Forcing a bend there isn't going to help anything.
does that mean I have to worry about his welds cracking???
Jrust ,you were correct,I wanted to make double sure,.If I had a mounting problem I did change the cradle ears to on top of the tranny ears and it pitched enough to fit and mount Exhaust ,plus the exhaust pipes are bent just enough to run under the cross bar,..Man,What a GREAT day today was,...Thanks !!!! Sure glad I checked ..!! Frank
Plus, My Apologies to Ian,..!!!!!
Check your clearance closely. The engine will lift up when accelerating and go down when decelerating. Your cutting a Fat Hog in the Ass now. Shouldn’t be too much longer.
if you have a chance, can you post a few pics from directly under the exhaust manifolds so we can see what kind of clearance you have? and some from sides too?
note that it is best to use what you have initially, as you can always address individual areas later on.
Sure Jim NP. Tomorrow
Until you get it on the ground and under weight you won't really know if low works. On the EG the stock pan hangs low, as does the stock exhaust manifolds.
So my suggestion would be bolt it up loose and see what you get on the ground.
IF to low for your comfort you might have to go higher. Just remember to put the larger washer up top, just incase the mount fails the large washer will hit the top of the mount, and keep the engine cradle from dragging the ground.
Thanks 914forme,..I actually doubled the large washer,1 top side and 1 for the bottom,..I have the car sitting on car ramps,with cradle mounted and so the suspension is being compressed now,I let that sit till next weekend,I need to run wires,finish the rad plumbing,.get Fuel hooked ETC... Thanks Frank
You can measure it as it sits just a bit of simple math.
Take the heights of the ramps front and back as they are different. And measure the bottom of the donuts. Then move around and start looking at what is bellow the donuts, and subtract the ramp heights and you have close to the street height for all these points.
This should give you a semi accurate guess of what will be going on once off the ramps.
And hopefully you have the clearance you are looking for. And then we could get into a discussion about stance, proper suspension geometry, and other little issues.
BTW, once you get this running ditch the KYBs - they absolutely suck. I ran them back when I was a teenager and could not afford better. But that was a long time ago and well I since learned what a good set of shocks can do.
Keep up the great work, your making some awesome progress here.
From your pic of the rear it looks like you may have enough clearance to run your pipes up and over that last horizontal piece of the cradle. With more pics of the different angles we may see something different but congrats on the new fit - progress is always good!
IIRC, I used 5.5" as min ground clearance which was the distance from ground to the bottom of those plastic air flaps.
914forme...What shocks would U recommend
Bilsteins or Konis for shocks. Bilsteins are probably all-around better, Konis have the adjustability (which most won't use).
I use the 911 sport mounts flipped up with washers to get a bit more ground clearance on my lowered car without any issues.
The other tubes with small wires coming out are for the heater boxes and I don'kt thin they'll line up very neatly with where the throttle cable should do. They also likely have too aggressive a bend radius to fit the threaded portion of the throttle cable through.
No Jim its off a bit the rod is bent to hell,but may work .Iam really thinking of going with a cable system..
thanks Rnellums,. I forgot about the heater boxes..
Okay this has been bugging me, and it is me, stuff like this bugs me.
In this picture where the arrow points is this due the angle of the picture or is it off? Not saying Ian stuff is off, as the stuff I had of his was top notch. And fit with in tolerances that I expeceted
Also if I remember correctly the stock EG Exhaust Manifolds are that they dump very close to the tubes. On Ian's cradle there are two tubes in that area that triangulate the joint.
Can you get around that yes, but not with out a bit of welding. https://smallcar.com/vanagon/subaru-vanagon-conversion-parts/3.3l-exhaust-flange.html. Ouffront sells headers or used too for the EG in a mid engine configuration. Outfront stuff fits much better, Chris H. has them in his build thread.
https://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/outfront-motorsports-parts-and-services/all/(714) 994-5222 very easy to deal with over the phone. http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/primary_tubes.htm
Small car does an excellent job also, I use their stuff all the time.
Answer your question you asked me.
Street - minor track usage Bilsteins. If you go wild on the rear spring rate it will require the Bilsteins be revolved.
Koni - Auto-X Race and then Street.
I autocross for years on Bilsteins, they will work.
To be honest, about anything is better than the KYBs Boge, Bilstein, Koni, Fox, Penske, I would slap a set of Autozone specials onto the car before I would use the KYBs, lol
The reasoning is the way KYBs function. The valve systems is supposed to adjust to bumps and increase the dampening after repeated bumps. Interesting concept, but the test track must have been butter smooth with a couple of repeated bumps. On the street what happens is the car moves about, every turn, bump, transition, even you just moving your butt in the seat. It all causes these valves to start increasing damping as it was meant to. Issue is that they never seem to reset back to base line, so over a period of time, they actually become almost solid. Yeah they still move a bit, yet if used in the thigh master poor Susan Sommers would have had thighs bigger than Arnold in his Mister Atlas days. It just does not work in reality as it was proposed to work in concept.
Koni, and Bilsteins can be sent out for rebuilding if you find a pair very cheap.
As of now, I run Bilsteins on my 914-6 it is a street car, that could be auto-crossed or tracked if I wanted to. I run Koni's on my 914EG project which I prefer to autocross , and track, and it gets driven on the street. Mainly driven on the street to get to the events.
914forme,...when I first fit the cradle nothing lined up and the tranny ears were off to the outside by 1.5 inches,So I used threaded rod to bring in the ears,...Then Jrust mentioned I was fitting it wrong,..cradle ears were suppose to be on top of the 901 ears,since I refitted the cradle, the cradle ears are now 1.5 inches to far in...So now I need to spread them open to fit,..No instruction's on how to fit the cradle caused me to guess,..Guessed wrong,as usual,..!!! Fits fine and clears the stk exhaust also, !!
76-914,..I may change in the future I have been looking at this car since 2014 it needs to get on the ground and run, I can always upgrade later...Thanks tho, Frank
if you decide to go with suby trans, i have these. i agree, projects can drag on
I hope to get the rad system hooked up this weekend,using this Moroso canister,does the canister feed line go to the inlet side or the outlet side. ?? my Tee fitting fits the smaller return line ,not the larger inlet line. Thanks Frank[attachmentid=634754]
this site mentioned in the past may be helpful?
The bottom opening goes on the suction side/inlet side.
The best place to hook up the bottom line coming off of your coolant tank is at the water pump. There is a 5/8 line there that you can tee in to. You might want to put the canister in the engine bay so it's at the highest point possible.
Ah,.ok,..Thanks Chris,..and 76-914..I didn't think about the suction factor.
Agree with Chris engine compartment. You can run a line back from the top of the rad, into the puck tank, and complete the system.
sweet,..Rad system,Fuel system this weekend,run wires next weekend,clutch and throttle cables,by end of month I would hope to start trouble shooting why it doesn't run,..LOL Thanks Frank
Jrust,...page 12 post # 233 shows me pulling these 2 ears together, with a threaded rod because I installed the cradle ears at the bottom of the tranny ears then I belive U said nope they go on the top of the tranny ears So in doing that everything fit,..
Now I must spread the cradle ears to fit the tranny ears, which I shall be doing this weekend...FM
Rent a portapower, and you can push it back into place.
Been following this build, small car makes header that should work for your set up and I would def ditch the 901. I was on the fence like you were. But after all the research it just seems like the most practical trans for the job.
Those yellow tabs or tangs are pushed down then carefully twist a wide blade screwdriver between the plug and its receptacle to separate the molex plug from the ECU. The fit is tighter than socks on a rooster, especially after several years of sitting.
it sure is,..thats why I had to ask,. I cant afford to break any plastic connectors !!! Thanks FM
I think I'am going to run my harness from Passenger side ( under seat or on the back wall ) and drill so it comes out right on top of the engine shelf ,and below the battery tray all my main connectors are on that side anyway,..???
Ok,..Iam considering 2 places to mount the ECU and harness, 1. near the engine bay fuse panel and then run the harness where the trunk torsion bars go which iam sure there could be a moisture issue
and the second place is behind back pad or even under the seat passenger seat. which is a possible overheating issue I would run the harness alond the top of the engine shelf just below battery tray ??
Definitely inside, Under the seat sounds good.
Definitely inside, Under the seat sounds good.
Yea,..dry is always best when it comes to electronic's,..should I wire a small computer type fan for cooling.
No. It's good. In the donor car mine was between the carpet and the floorboard. Couldn't have been cool there!
Iam not sure what the black pipe thats circled in blue,is for,?? also any issue with using the engines fuel regulator,ChrisH 's build he was going to use a aftermarket regulator,But I didnt know why,..??? Thanks Frank
You can use the stock regulator. The SVX guys recommended an aftermarket adjustable one to raise the pressure a bit (to 42 lbs) in order to keep the engine from stalling when the clutch is depressed (all SVX's were automatic) since there is no "load" on it when the clutch is engaged. I tried a couple of aftermarket ones but they leaked, then I quickly went back to stock. Turns out I didn't really need it.
The black pipe is part of the crankcase ventilation system. The top hose connects to the PCV valve on the underside of the intake manifold, you need another one on the bottom pipe end to connect to your air intake (the black plastic snorkel thing that brings air in and attaches to the throttle body). Since you flipped the intake you will probably have to get at least one straight hose and run it up from the crankcase vent to the air intake.
Oh Thank You,.. all that I now need to do is install intake,hook up wires and fuel, and gauges
Thanks jim,..yea, I still need to cancel EGR related connections,plug them Etc
Oh,...Chris...How did u finally set-up your Altenator system..??? Thanks
The alternator is in the spot where the A/C compressor used to be. I used a Miata drive belt if I recall correctly. I'll check the size when I get a chance.
Several ways to do the alternator. Easy if you do not want A/C is to put the alternator over there. It can also go where the power steering pump is. That requires a bit of fabrication. It can be as nice or as crude as you want. Nothing wrong with crude if it is of sound design.
It can also be mounted in its stock location and you just have to build spacers for the manifold. I would do this in the center section as your dealing with round ports. And it only really has air to move at that point. Fuel injectors are down in the lower section. And I would keep them there to keep them close to the intake valves. Gas does not like to stay in small droplets for very long. Of course velocity and other factors will help keep it suspended, but all the same, it will want to go back and form larger droplets. It also likes to cling to surfaces.
Enjoy the process Chris is the guy that took my ideas and made the reality beyond the mockup stage.
what would be a good source for a strong axel set-up,.I want to start sizing those up soon as I can,..?? Thanks !! Frank
Sorry I did not see your post. I attached the turn buckle to the REAR bolt hole (in the picture below I circled the front one). I enlarged the hole a bit so that I could push a 12mm bolt through it. It is threaded I believe. Then I attached it to a bolt on the intake manifold. You will find one that lines up pretty well.
All 901 flanges I guess,..I need beefy axels,..for my beloved 3.3
Ahh Sweet,..Chris Thank You !!
Not much you can do here with stock parts. You might be able to find a modified VW T-1 CV with chromemoly Cages and other "mods"
The http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=59486 is probably the easiest solution.
Next set up is 108mm, this gets you into the 930 CV joints and if you make enough HP to break one of the modified units, well then you're making serious HP and or torque.
The easiest way to the latter is flange adapters. And order new CVs and have the axles made up. You might be able to get the proper length in pre-made lengths.
Are there any venders that I can order the parts from,..?? I know Renegade Hbyd's has a set for 600.00 but U have to order and wait 6 weeks..
CVs can come from all sorts of places.
Cut your 901 axels to length then send them to Dutchman Axel. They can cut the 29 tooth broach for the Subaru end. Not many people offer this service because the 29 tooth broach is an oddball size. Deutchman Axel 503-257-6604.
Also, a set of 3 flanges in the Pelican 911 Used parts forums 3 of them for $150
Finding the outside adapters or stub axles might want to check with Bruce, or post a WTB AD
sway away might have the axles in stock.
A lot of people have done fine with stock 914 axles and CVs @ 230 hp. It's the CVs you have to worry about. Mine were original equipment so the CV cages broke quickly. I would buy new CVs if you stick with stock. Renegade Hybrids has a full setup with adapters and axles with larger CVs. Looks like it's $699. Similar to the Patrick Motorsports setup but it comes with the axles and CVs.
Oh,..Ok..thats very helpful Thanks to all,..!! Iam sure I will go Subaru trans eventually for now I just want it on the ground and moving,.
Kent, we have tried so many times we have tried.
I get it though. But the swap now is so well documented it is hard to pass up.
For cost comparison:
Hangers for the rear, get a local welding shop to build a set, around here that might be $75.
Trans, from a U-Pull yard it is $100 off Ebay it is $400 and up
Cable shifter, build your own - welding might be required. $110 most of that is good quality push and pull cables. For a built setup, your looking at $400-$600
Hydraulic clutch ~$100 in parts.
Spool to convert to 2 wheel drive free - welding again, to $200
Back Cover Free - $200
Set of resplined access to run the inner Subaru CV and the stock 914 outer. $200
That is between $885 and $2285 this does not include the extras if you decided to start doing the build to handle 400+ HP. Things like LSD and not the drug, 930 CV joints, bigger badder axles, and then other items from the Subaru Gears catalog of bits. I don't want to add up that number.
Adapter from the engine to trans $$$?
All adds up to ???
Run stock CVs you may pop them now and again.
The pros to the 901 costs, he has it, it is free until you start spilling the guts, which makes for a poor unusable 901.
The Pros to the MT5, enjoyment, lack of destruction, and well the proper gearing for the engine.
The cons for the 901, poor gear spacing unless you custom gear it. That adds up quickly in cost. I have one sitting in the shop right now if you wish to discuss the costs of such work. It has about 4K worth of parts without labor to get it set up. And the shifting, oh the shifting to fix that you can have several grand in parts from Tangerine Racing, and JWest engineering. And it still will not be as good as the cobbled together cable shifter and a transmission that is 20+ years of evolution.
Oh man the cost of a built 901 setup is in the $6000 range, why did I add that up
The Cons of the MTS, you need someone with a welder to build the trans hangers or find a set of Ian's since your using his cradle. Having to get the axles splined. Ian used to sell these also. Only real con I see to the MT5 is perceived initial cost and the conversion to a hydraulic clutch. Both are pretty much just a hurdle to get you to 914 conversion paradise.
Ultimately like everything else it is his choice.
Now, look at it this way.
Since I have both of these transmissions sitting in the shop.
Ultimateish 901 vs the Nice MT5
901 has custom gearing a 904 main shaft, an Al Intermediate plate, custom gears all the way out to an H 5 gear set, and a Quaiffe TB LSD in it. I would have preferred a Guard, should have never sold that one. With the Jwest bits, the Tangerine Bits, and still had to do milling for the 914-6 hand throttle. I am looking at over $6K invested in making a 914-6 go. BTW I will be changing out the gearing to make it match better the 914-6 needs. That H 5th and Z 4th are a bit tall for the 914-6. This trans was built originally for a WRX build. Still htings that could be done to make this 901 even better.
The MT5 again my build I have Oh I do not want to know, let's say 6K in it. It might be more it might be less. F'it for the comparison you need to know. Subaru Gears Parts, MT5 from a Legacy GT 3.?? Ring and pinion. An OBX Limited slip, modified with better bolts and washers and completely blueprinted. the Shifter setup, and still need to purchase the push-pull cables. It is $2800 Wow that is not as bad as I thought. F' that crap go MT5! For that number, I went with what is purchasable. So I substituted the OBX for the Subaru Gears TB LSD. I also added the Subaru Gears oil Site glass I forgot about in the above specs. That is presuming you can find an MT5 for $400, but now easy to change the number for comparison. Without the LSD you drop to $1900! Most people would never use the LSD 99.9% of the time. I do not drive like most people
So my plan would be sell your 901 bits and conversion pieces and go MT5.
Stephan, spring for the brass shifter bushings. You won't regret it. The engineer in you will appreciate the close tolerances. I replaced the new plastic ones on the V8 car with these and it made a big difference. https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/0976/POR_0976_TSHIFT_pg2.htm#item4
LOL,..914forme,..Its not all lost,..I bought the whole set-up for the 914 with the 901 trans,..adapter plate and the 3.3 engine with complete clutch set-up...Etc..this is the quickest way for me and Its still taken over a year to get this far,..!!!
Isn’t it obvious... turbo afterburner!
924 / 944 combo gauge, nice.
it is a hamster wheel to let you know when they die.
In reality I do believe it is the brake warning light?
makes sense,..car's a little to heavy for Hamster power..and that wheel is not big enough !!! Lol Thanks
Great,.. I shall carry on with the wiring,..Whats the worst that can happen burn up my ECU if I wire something wrong, correct.
Yes, that is the worst thing that can happen. Used to tell the electronic students that we will teach them how to put the smoke back into the fried components next year.
And somewhere I have the wiring diagram for the 3.3 ECU, Chris might have one also I'll PM you if I find it.
Yep that is the one I have somewhere
If you purchase the info from Small Car it comes with labels Easy enough to recreate.
I have the smallcar diagram but it’s too big to post.
WOW,..that is a lot of info,..I will go MT5 somday,.but as I have said,..Iam trying to get it off the jack stands and driving before summer hits Tucson,.I don't work on cars outside once it starts hitting 100 plus,..and that day is coming on fast !!!
Due to my new work location( tired of outside),I wanted to remove the door's but man those pins are in there hard,I've soaking them for 2 weeks now on and off and they just don't want to break free the tops are loose,But the bottom's just don't budge I've been using WD40...
Your 6 bolts away from your goal. I never pull the door pins. Bolts are so much easier, and you can mark the post, but most of the time the jamb will show you exactly where the hinges once resided.
Yea that will be the next step,..Top pins loose but the bottoms are tight as ever...I really dont want to fight the realinging of the door by myself but .....Thanks
I put a rag onto of a floor jack and just support one end hold the other, get two bolts in. One up top one in the bottom. Then you can move it around and get it just right, tighten the bolts, then get the other 4 with the door open wide. Just be careful with out the door stays. If it goes to far forward it puts a nice crinkle in the door. is how you feel when it happens.
They also make a door hanger for body shops. It would be easy enough to make one out of wood just for this situation. A few blankets or even steel and some pipe foam, done.
As normal Kent comes up with a simple yet flawless way of doing something. That is wisdom from years of doing.
FINE KENT!! Where was this sage advice before I took off MY doors??
Fortunately I've installed and aligned many doors working for Honda but your method makes it easy!
Thank You Kent that is a good idea,..!!
Iam not sure if this will work, But I bought a BMW style ( VDO ) water temp sensor for the rear temp sensor connection,hoping it will work with my 924 combo gauge any chance this will work,..sensor and gauge are diffrant years
Normal 8ga wire has 19 strands. I did not spend the time counting your strands,
More strands means more flexible. As for gauge, you need to Know how many amps the fans will draw. I think 8ga is good for 40 amps, iirc.
I do have 19 strands,..Iam running 2 10" spal fans I think they are 15 amps ea
Frank, here is another calculator. https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?material=copper&wiresize=2.061&voltage=12&phase=dc&noofconductor=1&distance=9&distanceunit=feet&eres=15&x=78&y=23
You might want to check your fan specs or measure the actual current draw. I think the Spal fans recommend a 15 amp fuse but the actual current is less. I have two Derale fans on my V8 radiator and the two of them together run about 14 amps continous. 8 gauge wire is overkill unless it’s all you have to work with. Even with 14 gauge you’ll have less then .4V drop at 15 amps for about 10 feet wire length. Use a good chassis ground near the fans to elimiinate voltage drop on the DC return. For automotive I like to use a GXL insulation with its high temp rating. Put a fuse in line with your fan power, near the battery is best.
You should always do an amp draw to verify. I ran an 8 & 10ga wires up front on my conversion and glad I did. You'll have the potential for any future needs. With that big alt you'll be able to add all sorts of stuff like I did e.g. A/C, heated seats, etc. Plan ahead!
Thank You,.. Gentlemen Guy,.I checked the specs but no info on Amps,they offered a Amp code but,..I will call them for the info just to be sure,..Also I dont know what the GXL Insulation is,..is that a insulated type of conduit or is that actual wire .
Kent..That is also a good Idea the Interior is out so I will run extra wire heated seats sound good..!!
Right now you should be thinking of air conditioned seats! Damn it’s hot out there.
The GXL wire is used in automotive wiring and has a 125C temp rating. Regular wire from FLAPS has insulation that melts at a lower temp and can get damaged easier. I don’t like to take the risk of damaged wires and potential short circuits. Lots of places on ebay and amazon sell the wire inexpensively.
I ran 8 ga. it's not expensive. Powers a fuse block behind the drivers speaker pod that feeds the 100w headlights, both Spal fans, and the stereo additions, plus extra slots for whatever comes up like power windows, the alarm, etc. I bought a roll of the fine wire stereo stuff so it's flexible.
Frank, here's the place I bought my GLX wire. I'm open to suggestions if you find a better place. When you order buy extra. It's cheap and always good to have a supply on hand. https://www.wirebarn.com/Wire-Calculator-_ep_41.html
Yea,...Guy its horrible,.. way too hot in the carport to do anything even if you start at 4:30 AM it blows,.Iam going to have to set up A AC system if I expect to get anything done..!! And Thanks for the wire info !!
The Spal people say that the 10" fans are 10 Amps and Ill be running 2 the GXL wire is on the way..!! Thanks Guy
Well after setting the engine inplace with the coldwater cradle set up I can NOT install the Air intake at all,..So as Chris H said that cradle will NOT work So now back to the small car mount I hate wasting that kind of money on useless parts
Many guys make a hatch in the firewall on a Porsche 6 to get access to the fan. Would you consider modifying your firewall to make things fit. Even George’s 916 was modified to fit an a/c compressor.
Well I have only drilled 3 holes so far,..So Not yet,..iam hoping to slide it back a bit,..
how far back can it be moved before I have axle issues,I would like to try that first and use tranny hangers
It's 1.5" back on V8 swaps and 1.5" forward on mine, but that's with 914 cvs.
thanks chris914n6,..I think I will be using 911 CV's along with sway away axel's to match they have the ability to float a little bit,I know I can shave the intake tubes and the rubber air intake a little bit and gain maybe 3/4 of a inch .
Mepstein can I cut and then fiberglass the black intake tube to fit the firewall and still get the air volume required to run the engine as intended,...
Frank, if you end up using the cradle and don't want to use the Smallcar mounts, I'd probably be interested... jus' sayin'....
Well..I stopped the small car cradle build and bought a Coldwater,I should have just did what ChrisH did and save myself, But small car sent me there style and it did not fit around the oil filter then they said use a smaller filter but NO its bent all wrong for a EG33 ,unless they sent me the wrong one which I now will call them,to the point the small car is still just 2 brackets and not a real cradle...
Yea Iam going to check that out today..
Well I think Iam going to cheat and cut my air box and glass it back,I don't need to remove to much just the corners,..?? I hope fiberglass will stick to it,..
Frank, is it made out of ABS plastic? Possible to heat it up with a heat gun and reform it for clearance?
Thanks Guy,..Good Idea...
and ChrisH..Thanks for the heads up,Iam starting to get serious so I hope its not this much of a pain the whole time,.?? LOL Frank
I'am kinda doing 2 things reworking my cold air intake to fit against the fire wall and will now do the small car set up but I think I want to cut the ends off of the small car mount shorten it and then reweld the pieces ( because they have bolt holes) then bolt that to a new cross member,.that will also give me more room for the shift rod. ALL of this is to keep my axels in the stock 901 location,I don't want CV and axel issue's on my road trips,.!! that's my plan now could change by tomorrow.
If you're going back to the old mount you won't need to trim the upper coolant hose.
Try flipping the black plastic intake around so the intake hose is on the passenger side. It gave me a lot more room.
I did,..But my battery is mounted on that side and where I am cutting the tube for the cone it ends up right there So I did cut out a 1.5 by 4 in long section out of the back of the cold air intake right where it meets the fire wall and as long as I can change the IRIS valve fitting it looks like it will work,BUT I then have to wonder about drive ability with that much space being squeezed or missing.The tube is 3" or 3 1/4" round and I will have to fiberglass the back area,.or what I might end up doing is using a 3" by 6" silicone tube thru the tight section SiliconeIntakes.com
has a bunch of different sizes of tubes
I moved my battery to the other side, mainly to accommodate the wiring. Just happened to work out for the intake as well. You'll get it to work one way or another. Just make sure there are no leaks in it.
Just FYI, but this thread an one other inspired me. I am actively acquiring parts for a SVX swap into my bus. Replacing the corvair/power glide powerplant. It will be nice to have AC and heat so I can drive all season
I did use him,.but his fee was higher than 550 for me,.it was 700.00,.so I hope when I get it wired up it starts like he promised ,..he did send a You tube video of A SVX starting,.so I can only assume it will..!!
LOL..Mepstein..So did I which was included in that price,So as long as I hook it all up correctly should save me time,I would still be dicking with that Harness Iam sure !!
You have no idea the hours you have saved.
And wow Doc that is great news on the SVX swap you need one in a 914 also.
Do tell I would love to own another SVX, especially if I could swap a 5 or 6 speed manual into one. I really had a sweet spot for the one I had while I had it. But the auto slush box is a pure POS.
I'll PM you for since we kinda hi-jacked this thread.
No I mean
I might this guy might sell his EG33 powered 914.
After all that work,.??
Well depending on how well you 'know this guy', I'm sure you can find some information on his build, what he's done to make it a reliable car, and some pictures to go along with all of that.... Maybe some people here even know him and can attest to the build quality, etc. to the point that 'he' can sell it. Seems like a lot of work just to let it go though - sometimes life gets in the way of having fun but 'he' never knows when the opportunity to drive 'his' project more than ever will come up. Keeping it makes people look for chances to enjoy it again!
I get what "this guy" is going through, I know a guy that has a Cayman that sits in the garage while he drives a Cayenne everyday. Drives me crazy every time I am over at his place. Cars that sit do not stay operational for long.
LOL, no way am I buying another 914. Would be a great car, though. My 914 has the 2.7/6 so its good. Keeping it sports, slimmed down with no bells or whistles.
As for the harness, appreciate the info. This is definitely one time where I have more money than time and I am using EvilWerks income to fund this endeavor. I am buying a conversion kit from SubiSwaps in El Cajon and it comes with everything I need. I wish I had more time as I love making harnesses and such. I have an extensive electronics background starting in high school and then being an avionics technician in the Coast Guard. Just no time with work and being a single parent during the week.
I actually have a friend headed to SC right now to pick up a rebuilt 090 VW autobox for the bus, and a torque converter. Same friend sold me the SVX engine and all the parts for $900. Had a care advertised local for $1000, dude never answered. I would have bought the whole thing.
Ill post my BS up in my bus thread....sorry for hte hijack, just wanted to belong
No Hi-jack,..were down with all of it...!!
Well I did then realized that wont work like I thought it would, So the small car mount will now be used,Iam getting a cross member made from the original 914 cross member and then I will get that installed and get everything marked and lined up then have it all welded ,As long as all that works out Ill be ready for the wiring and fuel so I'am hoping to try and start it by labor day weekend ,which would be to good to be true !!
Sounds like a plan
Has anyone ever made a homemade Intake system successfully
My crude drawing would show 180 deg. silicone tubes from throttle body then in to a cylinder with appropriate vacuume attachments ,and then a cone filter on the end...
How about 180 into the factory plastic box - little fab needed.
Or you could do ABS tubes, kinda generic looking but easy to work with.
Also if it was mine I'd go straight back and not 90 towards the battery.
Yea I tried the 180 with the original intake but it was to hi and I could not close the hatch,if I could run it straight back I would Iam not sure if there is room back there for the filter ..Etc
Yea well actually out of air box I could do 45 Deg,could I do 1 tube to the left and 1 to the right ?? as long as I have the same volume of air should be ok..
I removed the cross brace from my lid with no ill effect. Do you still have the rain tray mounted?
You could possible just save a bit off the stock intake couplers and gain enough to clear.
If it was me I would mark the firewall and move it just a tad with one of these
Sometimes simple is just better, and if you want to take it back to original then it is easy with a bit of and a Easy enough
Or you can spend some time getting a forearm work out with hammer and dolly and slappers etc..
Yes,.But the whole assembly was higher than the mounting bracket on the fire wall/bulk head for the lid so I knew it was way tall
but removing the bracket may be helpful still Thanks
I guess I could do (1) 3 " tube into the top of the factory box,.and just have the tube mandrel bent as needed..huh.
Is that just a breather box? Any sensors in it?
Yea,..Kent just the breather box I cut the big fat 3 " pipe of the end of it to make it fit as I wanted it to,too keep my axels in line,
and Yes Stephen Iam not against massaging that bulk head a bit,.but if I cut it then I wonder if my back pad and seat would fit correctly...
which I will be looking at all that tomorrow to see how bad it may be or not .
Yes Chris I intend to do that tomorrow,.. Thanks Guys..
I remember ChrisH. saying that his car ran better when he put is Original intake back on,..he had some aftermarket intake system,..so Iam trying to stay as close as possible to the SVX set up.
I remember ChrisH. saying that his car ran better when he put is Original intake back on,..he had some aftermarket intake system,..so Iam trying to stay as close as possible to the SVX set up.
IT would with the stock ECU.
I am going to build a center manifold with 6 equal runners, one large TB off a Shelby Mustang and the runners will have Velocity stacks ends like the current M3/M4 does. And running some form of aftermarket EFI, I only have 3 different ones on the shelf to choose from and I really don't think I like any of them.
The issue with the stock SVX unit is the variable chamber and the running was done for that manifold. If the IRIS system is not functional, it can cause some odd flat spots.
ITBs would work also, but have all the issues of ITBs. But would sound so good and look even better
I made a full custom setup for the bus on the Corvair. Same concept would work on an SVX, but it takes time and trial and error. I the plenum volumes correct, too.
Yes,.I looked at Jenvey's at fox injection they only have a listing for the 3.0,.2600.00 denaro's for the stacks
Yes Dr.Evil,..if I stick with the tube lenth and its 3" diameter with all the vacuum ports it should work even if I did 2 intake tubes into the box as long as I have the air volume...I think it could work out
Another approach, Frank. I used this set up. A silicone elbow and use the existing air temp sensor with it.
The only sensor in that black piece is the MAF sensor which attaches to the end. The challenge with the EG33 is it's one of the few intake manifolds that has two air entry points rather than one like damn near every other car. The Rocky Mountain West intake is pretty good but still may not be enough clearance for you. Someone here might be able to fabricate you one. You really just need the rectangular piece.
And if someone raises his/her hand to make one they could probably sell a few more.
not hard to make but why labor and materials would get in over the cost most here would want to pay. for what looks like a simple box, And show of hands how many 3.3 EG swaps are on here, the pool seems rather shallow to me.
Chris, your is running
the Evil one is uncommitted right now, well he is but it is a bus who would want to do one of them, Oh yeah me, but it is on the long list of cars, not the short list. WRX STI AWD Ghia is on the short list.
Myself which might never get done
I had the same thought about the Subaru swap items: Transhangers and engine mounts are the widest market, but what a few a month if that? Then shifter but zero decibel makes a great setup. Subaru gears has the spools, flanges, rear covers covered, and now a LSD also.
I know there is a Walmart market compared to Subaru gears, Zero decibel, but I just can't bring myself to build crap, let alone sell items I would consider crap that would have my companies name on them.
I would say that maybe there is a market if I would build the engine support, trans support, and make a bolt in package all the way to the drive shafts and cooling, with a plug in harness, and exhaust. Just seems like a lot of work just to see a bunch of parts sit on the shelves.
I am guessing that is why Mark runs so many group buys, as it covers most of the cost of the inthrall run, everything else becomes gravy as it sits and waits for the right 914 person to come around. lower the market potential to just Subaru conversions and things get a bit tighter. And the converters I know in this area just build all their own stuff.
Sorry for the hijack
Wow you guys really read a lot into that ....I wasn't suggesting there's a huge market for that piece that a business model could be built around. I just said if someone WANTED to make ONE, they might sell A FEW MORE. I wanted one myself and tried to buy the RMW setup when I flipped the manifold but they were out of stock. Now it's not on the site at all so I guess it's NLA.
Yeah I don't even have the throttle bodies anymore so I would not be able to build a set anyway
I never like the dual throttle body anyway Can't even remember what it is for as the IRIS section is not feed by a single side of the TB. Maybe it was the only way to get the volume of air required for the engine with the slopped hood of the SVX. If it was me and I was keeping the stock intake I would build an adapter with a 90 or more degree turn and install a similarly sized single Throttle body off lets say a Ford Mustang, and go one with an easier installation of intake tubing.
Then I would also change out the injectors, MAF, and run a chip in the stock ECU, if I was inclined to go that route.
But I am out not that one also as I am not sure where my intake got to, I had two of them at one point in time.
As a marketing venture it would fail,
Thanks MGP4591, Me to LOL Iam trying to keep the EG33 system intact but keeping that 901 trans is a little bit of a set back when it come to the air intake system,.because I want my axle's to line up,( I know I have some wiggle rm with the axle's but not much)..I may end up cutting the bulkhead just enough for the original duct to work,or splice that area with a silicone tube that can be compressed which then cuts air flow so not sure yet but, I checked RMW,..site I don't think they offer the EG33 intake anymore they don't advertise it,..So I will be calling on Monday...I'am sure If I have all the vacuume points connected with the correct air volume a rigged system could work.,even if I get the duct to fit and work on that side it blocks my dip stick,so I may also flip it like chrisH did,..and said I should...after all his is running !!
It would be nice to have that metal box they have or fabed maybe they will tell me who the vendor was/is,.I could block the side portal and attach to the top and then run it strait back that would work I think..
The metal box is the easy part, it is knowing the final design that makes it hard.
You could do this all in tube.
Two tubes that match to TB, and then one capped on one end, and then running over to where your MAF connects Preferably the same size as your final MAF bore. A Good muffler shop could build it. Then add a couple of bungs for the connections you need to support.
You really don't need a large volume of air after the MAF, you just need it not to be restricted.
That would be the simplest way to achieve your goal, a decent fabricator could do it. Heck you could do it with a bit of time, some spot welds, then take it to a welder and have it welded up. Worse case you might have to JBweld the joint to get it air tight.
You could also build this out of copper or other metal, and solder or braze the joints. In this case both wold produce a sealed joint, and it is not a structural part.
Or you could go hog wild, build the tubes flare the ends to make velocity stacks on them, install them into a box, run a tube out the other side, etc.......
K.I.S. KEEP IT SIMPLE!
How much clearance do you have between the intake and the engine cover? If you've got the room, keep your little black box and make the changes to run a large intake tube over the top to a better location for your MAF... Make the tube big enough to flow the air 180 degrees vs the 90 that it previously made and I think that would work. If space is tight, maybe look into an ovalized pipe to give you extra clearance.
with No rain tray at this point seems like plenty of room, Never thought about the Oval tubing..Thats a good Idea to ck out...Thanks
Well RMW, had good news and bad news the good, I was told they are going to run a batch of boxes. the bad not for another month and has no price as of today..
So I will have one made JIC they change their minds
Warren, he has to have a MAF in line with the intake. So a small box, then a MaF then a filter of some kind.
You could combine all of these into one set of boxes, and drop down to a 90 degrees to the intake.
If I was looking for the fast way out, I would get 2 180 bends in silicone. Drop a radiator return hose spring in each one just to keep it from collapsing, and take the stock box and put it up top. http://www.siliconeintakes.com/180-silicone-elbows/silicone-180-p-655.html not sure if the diameter is correct so you would have to measure that.
That is about as simple and inexpensive as it gets, until you feel like building the skills to fab the part, or having some one fab the part for you.
Just looked on EvilBay for SVX Motor or intake, prices on that stuff has sky rocketed. 300% for the engine alone
Why was I looking, I don't need more of them. I was hoping to grab an intake with the TBs to see what I could make. Hell maybe I should just buy another SVX, if it had a 5 or 6 speed manual I would do it in a heart beat .
That's exactly what I intend to do for now at least I can get it started and hopefully it will idle,this engine has never been started so I hope it checks out..Thanks for the Info !!
And yea SVX stuff is getting pricey
Yeah, I am not planning on using one, just figured it would give me something to practice my TIG welding on. LOL. And help a guy out, somebody else needs to get an EG swap done. Yes THAT is for me.
So Here is my problem,..using small car mount I had a cross bar made my engine sits level or very close,But the small car brackets sit right on top of the cross bar,which I guess is good,. but A. it Hits the oil pan (so now it needs modded) but not sure if engine sits to high or not what measurements are needed for everything to line up without stressing any componets....Thanks Frank
Yes that's what I am thinking I need to move forward about a inch or 1 1/4 ,..maybe find a large steel pipe and cut it in half and use that radius and then reinforce it
I'd just do a U shaped cross bar. As long as it mounts ridged to either the chassis or engine it's good.
You have that bar dead center of the mount location. IIRC, you can fudge 1.5" in any direction. That is about a 3" circle that your bar hangs from and is centered in. Remove that plate with the 2 small bolts which hold it in place and use a 1/4" plate in it's place. I can take pic's if this doesn't make sense.
If you have access to a chop saw, cut the cross bar at 45 deg. on both sides and angle then forward. This should put your bar right across the front of your smallcar mount. You can gusset the 45's and not lose any strength.
You need to move the bar forward BTDT, I still have the mounts in a drawer in the shop. That moves it forward enough for my built to get past the oil pan. I think it is 1.5 inches as Kent implied. I used a set of energy suspension parts.
If you pick a different spot for the engine rubber motor mounts you can pus forward even farther.
If you still have issues you will need to move the bar forward by moving the bar, with a bend to get it to the proper spot. You can then bolt the part to your bar, or leave it setup on the bar, then weld a plate to bolt it to. Or in your case do it all in bolts. I keep forgetting you don't have a welder.
Yes,. I intend to cut the bar and push engine ahead a 1 1/2 " and re-fab the cross member then do a permanent weld,.. and it sits at 6" of the ground clearance dead center..thats a plus,.
The crossbar is by far the lowest part of the car. No way would I want the oil pan below that.
I would agree after its all set up as well as possible and its still low I may have to do the outfront oil pan in the future if they still make them..but it sits level now and it is centered So iam not sure I can change it...I would certainly add a piece on to the bar to protect the pan no question,..
I just seen your post Kent yea I could give that a try just have a offset hole in the plate will that cause any vibrations,..I guess I could use a thick rubber gasket to help dampen any vibration,..Thanks..
This Way or That Way,..This stuff makes me Crazy.
So I spoke with the Sway Away axle people and they tell me its no problem to move forward or backward with my axle placement as long as I have the correct axle length, So how much out of perfect alignment can that be 2 inches 3 inches, he said (if I understood him correctly ) out of alignment is ok as long as there is no pressure against the CV's cages that's how they break,.I would think not more than 2 inches to be safe. I sure as hell don't know !! Again I don't want axle issues on the road,..But I need to solve this and get back on track .. Thanks..
Axle alignment is based off the degrees in which the axle can travel. Stock CVs can go to 12 degrees. To go farther out you will need to convert. Bus typically handle 17 degree, 944 25 degree, 930 can go up to 45 degrees. 914CVs are weak, and you can get into trouble fast. The axle is about 22 inches long if I remember correctly, so if you play it safe and say go half the CV maximum angle you could move the CV forward or backward by 2.3 inches rounding down to the nearest tenth of an inch.
So the 1.5 Inches you can push forward in the mount using a straight bar is still well with in the acceptable angle allowed by the CV joint. This would be about 3.9 degrees on the CV.
You also have to remember that the suspension will move up and down adding or reducing the angle.
I really kinda cheated out on this one, tossed the math out the window and just went with the 930 CVs 45 degree angle allows for a huge safety margin.
Thank You, Stephen ....I had NO CLUE on the math but I to would do the 930 set up for piece of mind in any driving situation.I need my engine back as much as I can to clear the cold air intake.So Instead of plates on the forward engine mounts,I can now do it on the tranny mount instead..and get alittle room up front..This back and fourth which way is better,..gives me a headache ..LOL Thanks ..Frank
Frank trust me, I redid my engine mounts 100s of times in my head, before I made the first version, then about 2000 more times before I made the next version. Not going to say it is the last version as, I will most likely change my mind again.
Offer still stands as I have a set of mounts that will push the engine bar forwarder or backward 1.5" they are your if it helps. I am not going back to the -4 mounts as I cut them out. Then you just need an adapter to move the trans ears forward or backward the same amount. Renegade makes an adapter for their V8 conversion. I have never seen the adapter.
930 setup is not a cheap solution BTW. You will have to replace everything from the transmission on out. So flanges on the trans early 70s 911 parts, can get pricey. The hub and stub axle also needs to be changed, to match. CVs Empi makes a set with Chrome Moly cages, not sure if they will hold up to huge amounts of abuse. Empi is not know for making the best CVs in the world. If you want a better quality CV, https://www.rcvperformance.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=ultimate+non+plunging+fixed+930+cv+joint+chromoly+cage+and+28+spline
Frank, aren’t you using the early 911 rear hubs, cv’s, etc.
I would love to check out what your mounts are like are they shown in your build,..
and yes Mepstein,..I intend to,..914forme Iam sure didnt know I have all that stuff didnt get that far in the axle conversation yet...LOL
Just read through this entire thread again. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=220712&st=40#.
Easy way like I said way back when is to http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/rear-axle-joint-flange-adapter-set-porsche-901-914-transmission/.
Renegade also makes up a set. "CV JOINTS AND AXLES
The weakest link in the 914 drive line is the CV joint. It can break without any warning and leave you stranded. While the 914 transaxle will withstand as much as 300+ ft. lbs. of torque, the 914 stock axles are only good to about 250 FPT at best. When you finally get accustomed to all that new power, and before you get stranded far from home, consider our complete high performance axle kits for your 914. Included are (4) new high performance CV joints, (4) new boots with retainer rings, (4) custom adapter flanges, (2) powder coated remanufactured axles, new hardware, and even two packets of grease!
$699 HIGH PERFORMANCE AXLE KITS: Good up to 500 hp! Sold per pair. ( picture )"
Good to know, well then your good to go carry on.
Will this much of a opening, Flow enough air to keep it at or around the 180 / 200 deg.I intend to cut out large sections of the hood under the grill...
Looks large enough. Don't cut that front hole too large. Any of those support braces beneath the hood going to be cut out?
Way bigger than it needs to be. Hot exhaust air is only 20% more volume than the incoming air. Plus air rushing over the hood will suck some air thru too.
Easiest way to know is to measure the rad opening (bumper holes) of the car the engine came out of.
My v6 opening is just 7 of the round plugged holes and both horn grilles, outlet is the 2 holes in the floor from the dealer installed a/c. I used a Corrado rad with 2 11" Spal fans back then, when it sprung a leak I installed the Celica/MR-S "performance" rad with stock fans.
My :2cents: don't cut up a perfectly good non-replaceable lid when the wheel wells or truck floor work just fine and keep a sleeper look.
No Sir,.just what ever metal needs to come out, all braces will stay,..
Chris 9146 : my opening is all those holes removed so what 4" tall and 26 " long
I have a large I think its a 3 row Rad. and Ill be using 2 spal 10" fans
$699 HIGH PERFORMANCE AXLE KITS: Good up to 500 hp! Sold per pair.Would these Renegade axle's have the same floating abilities that the sway-away or your turbo CV's axle's have. the 2' margin needed to fit my Air intake is very helpful... Thanks
Can you weld on the original 4 cyl cross member I may want to re-enforce that bar now because the one I had made actually bow's with the full weight of the engine Plus I could use the shift linkage opening ???
I understand,But I can get a new hood easier than I could weld up inner fenders,Plus I thought it was said that if you did a trunk floor opening that it got dusty and dirty quickly
Cutting the inner fenders are much easier, cleaner, and reversable than the hood. A nice sharpie, a jigsaw, and a steady hand can do the fenders in an hour. It will stay much cleaner in the trunk this way than either the hood or the floor. Also you could take the time and duct it and the trunk becomes functional for storage once again.
All the pro conversion shops go out the fenders now. Fyi.
If your hood is good and clean then be damn glad and don't cut it. They are very difficult to find without rust starting.
It's your car so do what you feel you want most. If your design calls for a hood exhaust then by all means. Just know the fender exhausts are known to be the best method.
Don't put the grille on the hood.....!
Well my radiators till upwards to go out the hood
No idea on the axle kit, but then the answer is a phone call or e-mail away.
Go out the fenders as others have suggested. And I bounce off the through the hood idea a lot.
Simple math you only need 1.2x the inlet size to the outlet size.
Most spoilers have an oil cooler opening of 1.5 x 19.75 = ~ 30 sq inches. so you would need 36 sq inches total or just 18 square inches on each side. If you are going full GT size with the bumper match, you just double the size for each fender. Fans and ducting on both sides of the radiator make a huge difference here.
I am pondering mounting the fans in the fender well to make the entire system a negative pressure zone behind the radiator. That is all theory at this point
You can not weld to the stock bar.
PORSTI has a great bar build in his thread.
Yes 914forme,..Iam trying to do just that and thought I had it worked out until my cross member was bending as my motor was being lowered not by much maybe just 3/4 of a inch but that tells me the bar is not strong enough to hold the engine it wont hold all the road vibrations and ass hauling I intend to do,Right ?? I don't know a thing about metal but it needs to be stronger,.Maybe I could get plate steel cut and then welded..??
Metal comes in various wall thicknesses . You can actually get 1" or 1.5" with a .25 wall. You can also add a gusset to the top to add a bit of stiffness. .25" wall tube will add some weight to your tube section.
I use the Metal Supermarket here in Ohio there is one at 4625 W McDowell Rd #140, Phoenix, AZ 85035 Never had an issue with them here.
Scott could tell you what he used for wall thickness. I know he had an early bar because he got it from me, and he built his own. Part of that is Scott nothing goes unmodified coming out of his shop. And that is a good thing
Thanks for the Info,..I will ck that out !!
Don't put the grille on the hood.....! barf.gif
Aah come on, it cant look that bad,.I thought it was a Fabulous idea, I don't want big holes in my fender wells,Unless I have no other choice.and I thought this would be my other choice
Hmm,..I didn't think about that..its a winter car basically with no A/C,.I will not be driving it in the summer here in Tucson,..But still a good point ,..
914pipe,..how did your eg33 run with that 901 trany you had in there for a while.??? Thanks Frank
Good to know...Thanks !!
I know what your thinking too, 76-914...I know what your think'in
is there much fab and welding work to do the Subaru transmission.
Ahh yes,..But what about all that Hydraulic clutch reservoir stuff,plus mounting it all that's where I run into problems.
Scotts is the cleanest by far for a conversion build
Compared to what you're dealing with now, the hydraulic clutch is not that tough. I think rnellums has been making the plate you would need for mounting the master cylinder, and we can literally give you the part numbers for the rest of the stuff thats required. Most of us just fed the hydraulic hose right through the existing clutch tube. There are two different clutch types, push and pull. You can use either one.
You'd also need a cable shift setup and to figure out the CVs and axles, and the conversion stuff to change a 4wd trans to 2wd. There is a lot to it, but the 5MT trans is quite a bit better.
I could go either way as long as I dont have to make any
Easy Frank. For the adapter plate get a piece of 1/4" or 3/16" plate and drill a few holes in it. Remove the pedal assm and change out the 2- 8mm bolts on it to longer ones. Reinstall the pedal assm, bolts on the adp plate you made. Bolt on new reservoir and master cylinder, fish AN-3 Aeroquip hose thru old clutch tube (broken or not) then put the ends onto the AN-3 hose, attach and bleed system. As Chris mentioned, the trans bolts directly to the engine, of course, and you'll need to provide the clutch. All of these parts, dimensions, install instructions and part numbers are given in mine and Chris' thread. Jim Kelly has most of the Suby build threads in his signature. Hydraulic will make you Frolic!
Can you keep the 4 bolt hub,.and still have 911 axle's..
Thanks..I kinda thought so..
How about 911 hubs drilled to the 4 lug pattern, now that's a 1st I bet
I would consider using that adapter from 4 to 5 and see if it could be reversed and only because I like the looks of the 4 lug fuch's,
"Here is a thought you can get Scott to build your car. He has a wait list of cars. I know there is a huge feeling of accomplishment building the car. I get it, but the frustration can be eliminated by writing a check and waiting."
There is a queue
LOL,..Yea,.Iam to impatient for that,.. that's half of my problem,..I think Iam really close once I get the engine lined up and the new cradle finished,unless of course I do something different again, I thought I had it figured out already Surprise I didn't.
If you read my EG build thread you will quickly realize I am no stranger to doing items three to five times, I normally only document a few of the attempts.
I go through a lot of C.A.D. over here. Cardboard Aided Design, and I still end up redoing it more times than not because I get some idea or method I think is better.
LOL I want to redo my rear mounts again in DOM tube, just because I feel like I cheated using square tube.
Oh yeah I owe you the mounts.
Maybe I should just toss the rear mounts for the MT5 in, that would force me to remake them.
I really want to get the DOM fitted and working, just for the learning process.
I would love those mounts or a picture of those mounts !! would help me a bunch Thanks !!!!!
PM sent, http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=220712&view=findpost&p=2147837.
So with the transmission back spaced by a 1.25" and with contouring the firewall I think I have it fitted very close to how I want it,..[attachmentid=672984] [attachmentid=672985]
Oh,..the important part
Looks good! Making progress since the temps have dropped, Huh?
Damn skippy...It's SO much nicer to work with 75 Deg's than 105 Deg's...LOL
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