Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Beebo Kanelle Sep 30 2016, 04:24 PM

Need a little wisdom. I installed one of Chris's exhaust systems ( It works beyond a expectations!!!! ) and pulled the push-rod tubes so I could install new Viton O-Rings.

Now, I have two tubes that leak. I watched my trusty Raby Type IV rebuild DVD and first time, straight motor oil. The second time I tried a dab of grease. Both to no avail.

These leaks are tiny; just a drop every 3-5 minutes... but one of them is dripping onto the header!

Are there any secrets ? mystery goo / sealers to use.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Posted by: cary Sep 30 2016, 05:10 PM

I used NAPA/Permatex Thread Sealant w/Teflon #765-1188. Five years and no leaks.
I think the preferred products are now Loctite and Curil. Take a spin thru the Type 4 Store web site and see what they are selling.

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Sep 30 2016, 05:44 PM

+1 on the Teflon thread sealant.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Sep 30 2016, 06:00 PM

High temp RTV. Works great. Just be careful to clean it up good. FAT Perfromance uses it and if it's good enough for FAT, etc. etc.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: injunmort Sep 30 2016, 06:27 PM

i use hylomar on the seals before installing. you can also use permatex red anorobic non hardening sealant as well. i just put a smear around the o-ring.

Posted by: Beebo Kanelle Sep 30 2016, 07:07 PM

Thanks to everybody.

I'm on it.

Posted by: Krieger Sep 30 2016, 11:57 PM

I did mine exactly like Elliot's except I used Permatex Ultra Copper. I have 0 leaks. Oh and I put the engine together in 1995 and first ran in 2000...

Posted by: Dave_Darling Oct 1 2016, 12:08 AM

Clean the bores where the O-rings go thoroughly. Make sure they are smooth, with no casting lines or anything else to snag on.

I do not recommend any sealant that hardens. Like RTV. The tubes are supposed to slide in and out of the head; the wire retainers push them in toward the center of the engine but the outer end has to be able to slide in the bore. RTV as shown in Elliot's pic will eventually fail. I'm frankly surprised that it hasn't failed already...

--DD

Posted by: r_towle Oct 1 2016, 11:27 AM

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Sep 30 2016, 08:00 PM)

Posted by: mark04usa Oct 1 2016, 03:12 PM

[/quote]
As the Cap'n rolls in his grave.
[/quote]


I was wondering when someone would mention that RTV and other such sealants are a very bad idea for use on push rod tube seals, since the parts need to move as things heat up and cool down...that expansion and contraction stuff.

I am surprised that so many folks are so quick to offer such poor advice... wish that the Cap'n were here to offer proper admonishment.

With the correct seals for the engine, properly installed....the push rod tubes do not leak. No sealant or RTV or other such goop is needed or desirable.

Posted by: rjames Oct 1 2016, 03:15 PM

I was wondering when someone would mention that RTV and other such sealants are a very bad idea for use on push rod tube seals, since the parts need to move as things heat up and cool down...that expansion and contraction stuff.

I am surprised that so many folks are so quick to offer such poor advice... wish that the Cap'n were here to offer proper admonishment.

With the correct seals for the engine, properly installed....the push rod tubes do not leak. No sealant or RTV or other such goop is needed or desirable.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Oct 1 2016, 03:51 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Sep 30 2016, 11:08 PM)

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Oct 1 2016, 03:55 PM

[quote name='mark04usa' date='Oct 1 2016, 02:12 PM' post='2405737']
[/quote]
As the Cap'n rolls in his grave.
[/quote]


I was wondering when someone would mention that RTV and other such sealants are a very bad idea for use on push rod tube seals, since the parts need to move as things heat up and cool down...that expansion and contraction stuff.

I am surprised that so many folks are so quick to offer such poor advice... wish that the Cap'n were here to offer proper admonishment.

With the correct seals for the engine, properly installed....the push rod tubes do not leak. No sealant or RTV or other such goop is needed or desirable.
[/quote]
The advice I gave was advice I got from FAT Performance and European Motor Works but WTF to they know right?

Posted by: r_towle Oct 1 2016, 04:12 PM

I know how you feel Elliot but if you use the correct orings you do not need sealant.

Posted by: 914_teener Oct 1 2016, 04:37 PM

Use the viton seals with the pushrod tubes.


What's not known is what seals were used in Elyut's car and how much was it worth?


That silicone is legendary.

Posted by: injunmort Oct 1 2016, 04:46 PM

i used the victor reinz seals that came in the engine gasket kit. three of the four tubes leaked like sieves. a smear of hylomar on the seals and reassembled, no more leaks. hylomar and permatex red anoerobic sealers dont harden. good enough for rolls royce, good enough for me. i have used viton o rings on '60's era triumph push rod seals, they are not magic and leak just like stock. i am unaware of "the right seals" or where to get them. every type 4 engine i have taken apart, had significant oil leakage around the pushrod tubes. so far about 3000 miles on mine, no leaks. is there any empirical reasons against using sealant aside from personal preference?

Posted by: r_towle Oct 1 2016, 04:47 PM

I am sorry I don't remember the details, but it won't matter.
Buy both types of seals. The green ones fit perfectly on one end only.
The black ones fit perfectly on the other end only.
The remaining ones I toss in the trash so I won't use them ever.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Oct 1 2016, 05:45 PM

I'm sure FAT Performance used the correct seals. This wasn't my idea gentlemen. This was recommended to me. You're right, I'm wrong, can we move on now?

Posted by: mark04usa Oct 1 2016, 06:09 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Oct 1 2016, 05:47 PM)

Posted by: injunmort Oct 1 2016, 06:39 PM

^ and they leaked

Posted by: porschetub Oct 2 2016, 02:22 AM

QUOTE(mark04usa @ Oct 2 2016, 01:09 PM)

QUOTE(r_towle @ Oct 1 2016, 05:47 PM)

Buy both types of seals. The green ones fit perfectly on one end only.
The black ones fit perfectly on the other end only.
The remaining ones I toss in the trash so I won't use them ever.

Not all 914's use the same seals. Early '70 1.7 uses smaller seals on the inboard or case end of the tube.

Regardless of whohever "FAT Performance" and "European Motor Works" are, (and since I've never heard of them they have no credibility with me ) the best info on our cars comes from those who designed and built them. No sealant is specified to be used on push rod tube seals by the factory.

Posted by: mark04usa Oct 2 2016, 01:52 PM

Regardless of whoever "FAT Performance" and "European Motor Works" are, (and since I've never heard of them they have no credibility with me ) the best info on our cars comes from those who designed and built them. No sealant is specified to be used on push rod tube seals by the factory.


Porschetub:[/quote]

do some research then you will know ,Porsche make cock-ups all the time ,time to listen to folks on here,good luck.
[/quote]

Porschetub, there is often very useful info on 914World, but there is also often misinformation and differing opinion. I won't be bulleyed into agreeing with you. In this case, I do disagree with those who say we should use RTV or other sealant on push rod tube seals. In my 40+ years of experience with 914's (beginning at a Porsche dealership where I worked and where I bought my 914 in 1976), I have learned a bit about our cars. I do not need to research your favorite shops and their methods, since I do all the maintenence and repair on my car myself, and drive it most every day. Back at ya, Porschetub- YOU should listen to those of us with true experience with these cars, and have a little more respect!

Do you see any oil leaks from these push rod tubes? Not a matter of luck, just proper service