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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 10:56 AM

Hi World!
Let the games begin!
As the title says, it's a '75 that's getting an LS3 (Cracker's "old" motor - thanks Tony!) and Boxster 6 speed.
Also planned is zippidy doo-dah 911 front suspension with Boxster calipers all around. The rear suspension is getting 911 ebrakes, Tangerine Racing raised pickups and shock towers.
I have plans to stiffen the chassis with a partial cage.

Doesn't that sound like a great plan? I think so, too!

BACKGROUND:
I got this as a roller that was purported to be "dry and accident free". And it was!
Except for all the rust and the place where it was hit. Yeah, yeah... But it's all good. The seller and I worked everything out.

But our little 914s are full of surprises and isn't that half the fun? So, first up is rust repair time!

Let's begin with some pics of what I started with. Wish me luck! Wait, forget the luck, wish me SKILL!!!


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 10:58 AM

Hey, looks pretty good! Let's have a look under the carpet.
This is encouraging...


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 11:00 AM

How about the hell hole? Hmmm.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 11:07 AM

The outer longs? Pretty nice! No problem! I mean, how much trouble could possibly be caused by those little hell hole perforations?

Remember the Monty Python and the Holy Grail? Where they have to cross that bridge and get asked "what's your favorite color?" and the first guy answers and gets to cross? Remember what the next knight said?

"This is easy!"

Remember what happened to him?

So let's pull the interior out and remove the tar.... "Hello? Restoration Design?"


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 11:08 AM

Forgot the pic of the outer longs...


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 11:11 AM

A real contributing factor to the rust issue was failed window seals and a horrid non-repair that used some odd goo to try and plug the leaks. So at some point, a PO figured that part of the solution was to add drain holes... !

The passenger long rust was exacerbated by water sitting in that area.

I would have thought water and hell would cancel each other out!


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 11:26 AM

So... NOW we'll let the games begin. And I want to start with a disclaimer:

TO EACH, HIS OWN

By this I mean, I'm just a guy with an opinion. Doesn't mean I'm right, just that it's what I believe, think, feel, etc.

My goal with the car is to do as high quality work as I can muster. In my opinion, that means complete panels vs patching. Plus, some of the "interesting" things I want to do as part of this project are more easily accomplished this way. More on that as I get to it.

OK, back to the action. Let's find out where the rust stops and what needs replacing.
Turns out it's:
- back 1/2 of the floor
- seat mount/cross brace
- inner firewal
- outer firewall
- passenger inner long (from a bit ahead of the engine mount to not quite 1/2 way forward)

So out comes the bad!

I was hopeful that the first set of incisions (first pic) would be enough but upon reflection (and given the 400+ hp this chassis is getting) I decided to go all in - or maybe that's "all out"! (2nd pic)

Note that I've started fitting the front sleeve. More on that in a bit.


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Posted by: Cracker Oct 17 2016, 12:12 PM

Good "skill" Chris...do that motor proud! I know you do really nice work and I will continue to look forward to the progress posts!

PS: So this means the latest acquisition is on the way out then, correct?

Tony

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 12:32 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 17 2016, 11:12 AM)

Good "skill" Chris...do that motor proud! I know you do really nice work and I will continue to look forward to the progress posts!

PS: So this means the latest acquisition is on the way out then, correct?

Tony

Posted by: Mueller Oct 17 2016, 12:55 PM

Whoa, that is going to be a little bit of work!

Nice sized shop so at least you are not hindered by lack of space.

Those Enkie wheels look to be in great shape, at least you'll be able to get a few bucks out of those.

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 01:00 PM

In planning the fabrication of the sleeves needed for the long repair, I noticed I was going to have to deal with a bit of a structural raised section in the bottom of the forward area.
I recently treated myself to a bead roller and was able to put it to good use.
Gotta say, having the right tools almost feels like cheating. Nowhere near as much

I used it to form a nice, tight fit around that raised section then roll over the 90 degree bends to complete the sleeve.
Turned out pretty well.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 01:11 PM

I sliced the longitudinal repair section out of my parts car. That was a fair bit of work, in and of itself!

And here's the first goof of documenting my build:
I fabbed up the sleeve for the rear part of the long repair. It was FAR more complicated as I had to deal with the raised reinforcement "ribs" that are part of the doubler that runs up the inside of the long, past the engine and inner suspension mount.
I was so impressed with myself and how well everything fit that I immediately forgot to take any pics and commenced with tacking things into place...

Anyway, here it's trimmed and fit. Also gives a view of what these look like with no inner or outer firewall or back half of the floor!
Note the double/triple-up on the door brace. I'm super paranoid about keeping the very nice door gaps this chassis has.

I'm using Tangerine Racing's door brace kit.

*** Unabashed promotion***
If you need 914 stuff and Tangerine Racing makes it, save yourself a ton of time and just buy it! Chris Foley and his team (and products!) are the best.

Back to the build:
I used the door brace kit as provided plus added another diagonal from the upper seat belt mount to a plate/bolt that I welded just inside the front of the door opening. This means I have a brace in place but can mount the doors and check gaps!


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Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 17 2016, 01:25 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 17 2016, 03:11 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 01:57 PM

QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Oct 17 2016, 12:25 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 17 2016, 03:11 PM)

I'm using Tangerine Racing's door brace kit.

*** Unabashed promotion***
If you need 914 stuff and Tangerine Racing makes it, save yourself a ton of time and just buy it! Chris Foley and his team (and products!) are the best.

Thanks Chris!
I actually have a door brace kit update planned that uses a system much like you described - a welded nut plate inside the A pillar, so the doors can be installed while the chassis is braced.

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 02:01 PM

Hell hole/long repair welding nearly completed! I opened up holes in the outer skin that allowed me to drill then plug weld the sleeve to the inner reinforcement panel.
A couple of those holes are yet to be closed up.

You may have noticed I've eliminated the heater tubes. V8 means no need. This opens the door to some custom fab I want to do:

I'm doing an inner long stiffener kit but because the firewalls are out, I can run them from the front of the long all the way to, and a bit past, the suspension console.
And I'm planning a center mount ebrake handle so these stiffeners will have no cut outs or heater inspection holes.

More as I get to that.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 17 2016, 02:10 PM

My paranoia paid off and another Tangerine product performs as advertised!

The door gaps are uber nice, body lines are spot on and the doors close with zero up/down movement as they latch and unlatch. These are early doors off the parts car and they end up with gaps a bit larger at the rear than the front. If I do run these doors, I'll add a small shim behind the hinges to even up the gap.

Also, since the windshield frame can end up tweaked for any number of reasons (being used when entering/exiting the car, etc.), the chassis measurement spec isn't always to be used as gospel. But in combination with other measurements, including door gaps, you can be sure things are where they should be.

That said, looky where mine ended up! This would suggest the windshield frame is straight.


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Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 17 2016, 02:16 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 17 2016, 03:57 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 20 2016, 11:27 AM

CHASSIS STIFFENING: Version 1

LS3 = I need to stiffen this chassis. A lot.
I'll be adding an inner long kit but also need to do more. So, I started to fab a roll cage.
I want this car to retain as much street use ergonomics as possible, plus I want to have a nice interior. To accomplish this, Version 1 of the cage was designed to be a bolt in: A roll hoop with door bars that extended up to just ahead of the door opening and bolt to the top of the long. Something like the one pictured below.

This meant I could tuck it tight to the interior but since it comes in and out, I could install the trim panels, do all the other upholstery then bolt in the cage.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 20 2016, 11:35 AM

CHASSIS STIFFENING:Version 1
From a design perspective, I'm trying to add little things details that may be unique elements. I figured I see how close I could get the roll cage to match the shape of the car.
So out comes the roll bender!
Once the curve was where I wanted it, it was measure and bend the legs.
I'm happy with how it turned out.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 20 2016, 11:51 AM

CHASSIS STIFFENING: Version II - Change of Plan

As I've been thinking about the bolt in design, I spoke with a number of experienced folks (Chris Foley, Tony/Cracker) and some race car fab buddies and decided I didn't want to go bolt in. But I also didn't want a race car cage with full front hoop, etc.

What to do....

I understand the targa structure of our cars are pretty strong and since this is a street car that will see the occasional track day, I decided to build what I'll call a "roadster cage".

The main hoop will come up to just below the rear window, it'll have legs back to the top of the long near the suspension consoles. In the cabin, there will be a hoop under the dash and door bars with drops that tie into the tops of the longs. This will all be installed over the inner long stiffener kit.

That said, I also wanted to hide as much of this "cage" as I could. So I'm trying something a bit different. A "through the firewall" design!

Here's the initial rough-in of the rear hoop. It's roll bent to match the curve of the window opening.

The final fit will have the top of the bar just under the window and able to serve as the shoulder harness mount. The window and all stock interior trim can go in/out. I planned to eliminate the back pad so no worries there.


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Posted by: stevegm Oct 20 2016, 12:15 PM

Interesting idea. It should provide some stiffness, without the bulky full overhead cage.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 20 2016, 12:42 PM

Now that is a very cool way to stiffen the car and do it as low-profile as possible.

Posted by: Cracker Oct 20 2016, 12:49 PM

Very nice Chris...have it running at WCR!

Tony

Posted by: worn Oct 20 2016, 01:09 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 20 2016, 09:51 AM)

Posted by: 914forme Oct 23 2016, 09:48 AM

Very nice bar tuck. If your not planning on running anything up the logs, cut a slit in the lower rear firewall, and extend stiffing all the way from the front to the rear suspension console.

I would also highly recommend 914 LTD outer log kit. Brad's kit will make your car stiff, runs from the front log all the way back to the rear suspension console. I can jack inside of my car up and the back, and lift three tires off the ground. It also only twists about 1/8" That was with a Roll bar, and petty bar installed. Have not tried it with out the roll bar and petty bar.


You could also go full steel top, or bolt down your fiberglass top, and add re-enforcments to that to to help out.

I checked a 944 out, 18ga metal, and very similar design to the 914 A-pilars. though the Gas had a re-enforcment added to the lower A-pilars.

You can also build a box section going down the center of the chassis. Think Lotus back bone, very strong, and can be made very light.

You are on a very slippery slope.

BTW, LS3 excellent choice

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 23 2016, 01:25 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Oct 23 2016, 08:48 AM)

Very nice bar tuck. If your not planning on running anything up the logs, cut a slit in the lower rear firewall, and extend stiffing all the way from the front to the rear suspension console.

I would also highly recommend 914 LTD outer log kit. Brad's kit will make your car stiff, runs from the front log all the way back to the rear suspension console. I can jack inside of my car up and the back, and lift three tires off the ground. It also only twists about 1/8" That was with a Roll bar, and petty bar installed. Have not tried it with out the roll bar and petty bar.


You could also go full steel top, or bolt down your fiberglass top, and add re-enforcments to that to to help out.

I checked a 944 out, 18ga metal, and very similar design to the 914 A-pilars. though the Gas had a re-enforcment added to the lower A-pilars.

You can also build a box section going down the center of the chassis. Think Lotus back bone, very strong, and can be made very light.

You are on a very slippery slope.

BTW, LS3 excellent choice

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 23 2016, 01:42 PM

CHASSIS STIFFENING: Front Hoop/Door Bars

In keeping with the "hide as much as I can" approach, I bent up my front hoop (if something 9" tall qualifies!) and started trial fitting.

No, that isn't the real footing. It's just blocking the heater hole...

Initial fitment suggests I have plenty of foot clearance, can remove/install the steering shaft and even run the stock fuse panel, if I wanted (I don't).

It lines up nicely for a bar that will run from the hoop corner, through the heater hose hole and tie into the front shock tower.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 23 2016, 01:51 PM

CHASSIS STIFFENING: Con'd

Next, I started on the door bar. I haven't landed on the final height. Taller = stiffer, but again, I want it to be as easy as possible to get in and out.
Comprise is the order of the day on this design.

The pics show an overall height of 5" to the top of the bar. At this point, I think that's as high as I'd want to go.

I'm not final on the design in terms of the drops to the long. It'll be two or three, I'm just not sure. Here's a pic of each. (Note that I hadn't yet coped the drop supports in that 2nd pic.)

One of my race car fab buddies is coming over later to take a look and make recommendations.


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Posted by: Rand Oct 23 2016, 02:00 PM

I don't think you need three verts. My choice would be the outer spacing, the middle is doing the least. The last pic. Remove the middle.

Posted by: Cracker Oct 23 2016, 03:39 PM

Chris - You don't need to have your bar that high - consider what I designed for you below (and if followed) - never look back.

The center support is important and I would not eliminate it from the design. The gussets at each end upright are absolutely necessary and should be implemented. Call me if you need to discuss.

I too will be re-configuring my cage in the next year or so - converting it to a more "hot rod" style like your car. I won't go any higher than the 4.5" (and probably even lower) from top of rocker to top of bar I've illustrated below when I do it (JMO).

Keep up the good work.

Tony

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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 23 2016, 05:26 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 23 2016, 02:39 PM)

Chris - You don't need to have your bar that high - consider what I designed for you below (and if followed) - never look back.

The center support is important and I would not eliminate it from the design. The gussets at each end upright are absolutely necessary and should be implemented. Call me if you need to discuss.

I too will be re-configuring my cage in the next year or so - converting it to a more "hot rod" style like your car. I won't go any higher than the 4.5" (and probably even lower) from top of rocker to top of bar I've illustrated below when I do it (JMO).

Keep up the good work.

Tony

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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 28 2016, 05:58 PM

Oh boy. oh boy... is this going to be a full weekend in the shop!
Today, I got the blanks for the inner long stiffener. I got two 10' sections of 16 ga bent with a 7/16" inside radius. This is just a tick tighter than the corner radius of the long itself. I wanted to err on the side of tighter as too big a radius would cause the stiffener to rock on the long.

One leg is 4.5" and other is 7". This will allow me enough material to do the cabin as well as up the long, past the suspension console.

LOTS of , and for the next couple days.
And yep, I'll weld slowly, cooling as I go. But I sure am looking forward to having the floor and firewalls back in!

So, here's what a custom inner long stiffener looks like before the "custom" gets applied. (This has to be in the top 10 for "Most Boring Build-Off Challenge Picture"!)

More pics tomorrow as I start fitting!


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Posted by: Mueller Oct 28 2016, 06:07 PM

I'd throw a seat in there 1st and test how much of a PITA it is going to be getting in and out of the car before settling on the height of the horizontal bar.

Posted by: Rand Oct 28 2016, 06:17 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 23 2016, 02:39 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 28 2016, 06:21 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Oct 28 2016, 05:17 PM)

QUOTE(Cracker @ Oct 23 2016, 02:39 PM)

Curious what your thoughts are on simply running a tube from the rear shock tower straight to wherever is the best point in the front wheel well inside. One simple tube for maximum triangulation, no need for all the extra bits in the truss design.

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 28 2016, 06:22 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 28 2016, 05:07 PM)

Posted by: Rand Oct 28 2016, 06:33 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 28 2016, 05:21 PM)

Posted by: Dion Oct 28 2016, 06:56 PM

Fantastic fabrication. Way to go Chris. I'm paying attention here:-)

Posted by: Mueller Oct 28 2016, 07:17 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 28 2016, 05:22 PM)

QUOTE(Mueller @ Oct 28 2016, 05:07 PM)

I'd throw a seat in there 1st and test how much of a PITA it is going to be getting in and out of the car before settling on the height of the horizontal bar.

Great minds... I've been doing just that with my assembled '74. It'll be at least 1-2 inches lower than what's pictured.
And you're in Antioch? I get over that way semi regularly. We'll have to meet up.

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 28 2016, 08:12 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Oct 28 2016, 05:33 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 28 2016, 05:21 PM)

I'm pretty sure that angle would make it tough to get in and out. If I remember, I'll mock that up and see how bad it might/might not be. Worth a look. Thanks for the idea!

Could be. But look at Sir Andy's car. His is easy to get in/out of. More swooped, but reality is, a bar like this doesn't interfere as much as you'd think. Sometimes it's actually easier to get in and out using the bar. And it triangulates the huge miss behind the firewall! That's an important part of this car, especially when you consider the worst rust weakening happens behind the firewall. Could also run an X tube to front suspension points.

Real cages and reinforcements have already been engineered. This is just brainstorming. But I figure this one red tube does more than all the black ones combined with less weight and effort?

Posted by: Cracker Oct 28 2016, 08:37 PM

Something else to consider when designing your structure...Foley was sharing with me recently the importance of designing towards keeping the longs from twisting. However, you have a hot-rod - not a race car. Keep that in mind too so as to not over-build. Clean would be sweet - the less you see and only the necessary installed.

Tony

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 29 2016, 10:01 AM

CHASSIS STIFFENING: Inner Longs

Got started on the inner long stiffener. Since I deleted the heater tubes, I'm going to skin the long "everywhere". And trying to keep it tight. I like the clean look!
Given the way the longs change shape behind the firewall, I'm planning to make each side in two pieces: the part seen here, and the second part for the "up the long" part.

That part will be more complex and I'm going to have to wait til I cut the suspension consoles out to prep for the Tangerine Racing raised pick up kit.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 29 2016, 10:04 AM

Details, details... trim to fit - even the little weep hole thingy.
Yes, it'll be hidden under carpet but I know it's the way I wanted it.


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Posted by: Mueller Oct 29 2016, 10:05 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 29 2016, 09:01 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 29 2016, 06:13 PM

Fitting the left side... This went way faster as I was able to use the right side as a template. Just laid them back to back, traced then cut. Done and done!



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Posted by: Rand Oct 29 2016, 06:17 PM

Nice. You don't need a bunch of tubage. This alone is going to make a big difference.

How are you handling the ebrake?

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 29 2016, 06:19 PM

Another. And if you need to make large holes for things like seat belt mount in an inner long stiffener, use a knock out punch! (Crappy pic, in terms of showing that, I know.)
I treated myself to a set of KO punches from Swag Offroad and they're awesome. I use a HF hand hydraulic pump and wow. Super clean, accurate, etc.
I also got their dimple die set which I plan to employ on some of the tunnel and roll cage gussets. Pics as I get to that.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 29 2016, 06:20 PM

Artsy shot of the day. I just love the smooth, clean look! Now to mess it all up with hole drilling and plug welding. Ah well, it'll get covered up at some point anyway.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 29 2016, 06:24 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Oct 29 2016, 05:17 PM)

Posted by: Rand Oct 29 2016, 06:35 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 29 2016, 05:24 PM)

QUOTE(Rand @ Oct 29 2016, 05:17 PM)

Nice. You don't need a bunch of tubage. This alone is going to make a big difference.

How are you handling the ebrake?

I have a ebrake handle from a 993, so it'll be center mount. A couple of us are going this sort of dirtection - take a look at 914forme's build, post 291.

Posted by: Cracker Oct 29 2016, 06:47 PM

Your picture reminds me of a Fred Flintstone mobile...missing floor and all! As always Chris - the work looks fantastic. You better slow down as most projects take decades - you're going to hurt some feelings at this pace!

Tony

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 29 2016, 08:19 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 30 2016, 09:53 AM

CHASSIS STIFFENING: Lower Firewall

Today's realization is that this really is a jigsaw puzzle. And I've determined I want to have all the pieces before I start putting any of it together.

So... My stiffening plan includes a tunnel from the firewall to the front roll hoop. Since this will tie into the lower firewall and it's all the way out, this is an opportunity to beef up that area of the chassis, too.

I was planning to run a bar across from long to long and sandwich that between the stock inner and outer firewall sheet metal. But with some additional head scratching and input from my race car fab buddy, Martin, I've decided to build a more substantial structure. Similar to what MichiganMat has done on his build.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I love curves. Arches are pretty strong, too.
Roll bender to the rescue! This is a different one from the one I used to roll the round tube. It's purpose build for flat/square stock. I got it for free and it saves me buying additional dies for the Swag Offroad roll bender.

So instead of running a straight tube across and running sheetmetal from the upper firewall down to the tube, I'm going to roll a square tube that fits right up against that curved lower edge.

First, I used the curve template tool to capture the radius I need. I was surprised at just how much arch there is.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 30 2016, 09:55 AM

Then it's roll, check, roll, check. Manual roll bending 1.5" .095 wall tubes is a pretty good work out, too!
This pic reminded me how fortunate I am to have a high ceiling in the shop.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 30 2016, 09:56 AM

Looks good to me!


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 30 2016, 03:30 PM

I'm not so confident that I trust my measurements on what to me are the trickier bits. This firewall arch is one of them. I knew the bar would intersect the long in such a way that it was going to require an interesting cut. So I prefer to sneak up these sorts of things using the "measure, cut, trial fit, measure, cut, trial fit" method until I get it where it needs to be, hopefully avoiding the "I cut it three times and it's still too short...!" situation.

Here's the current state of things. The arch is dead on and overall fitment is looking really good.

The lower bar is a simple straight cut. I used one of those laser measuring devices and it was absolutely on the money. I cut the bar to that length and it's nice and snug.
And yes, I will be adding "footings" under all these bars so there will be more trimming.

I'm really happy with how this is turning out!


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 30 2016, 03:36 PM

In the pics above, the rear floor is just held in place with a floor jack to help locate the lower bar.
Now, it's on to making up some bracing for the lower firewall area, removing the tunnel and fabbing the rest of the floor supports. Not sure how much more I'll get done this weekend but I'm feeling pretty good about how this stage is going.

Posted by: Cracker Oct 30 2016, 05:47 PM

Chris,

I like it. One word of caution; however, don't do anything that is permanent until you can fit the drivetrain in place. Too much structure, in place and done with will be difficult to re-do down the road (psychologically).

I'd suggest you take a break from anything relating to the lower fire wall at this point and focus on installing the entire driveline to achieve the most forward positioning of the transaxle as possible. To get the angles absolutely correct - the firewall will need to be modified. Now is the time to do that. Have I made myself clear enough???

I'm really only dealing with one issue at this point - CV angles. If you are patient, you can remove this from the table. All the best.

T

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 30 2016, 06:37 PM

Suspension porn! Got my trailing arms back from Chris at Tangerine Racing:
stiffened, gussets, 911 e-brake assembly, hub-centric Carerra hubs, Elephant bushings, etc.



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Posted by: Cracker Oct 30 2016, 06:47 PM

Damn right those are slick...Foley does excellent work! My struts head up to TR tomorrow to raise the spindles (plug for Chris - he CAN raise the spindle hieght on the tappered BOGE struts). Thanks Chris for the hi-jack!

Tony

Posted by: 914forme Oct 30 2016, 07:55 PM

Oh wow our builds are very close, I like what your doing keep it up!

Posted by: 1stworks Oct 31 2016, 05:52 PM

Following.
Thanks for sharing.

Posted by: Curbandgutter Nov 2 2016, 05:08 PM

Wow the build is looking great. I really liked your curve template. Keep up the excellent work.

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 4 2016, 05:22 PM

Engine & Trans: Mock Up
November activities commence with some new stuff: Engine and trans mock up install!

LS3/Boxster 6 set ups create pretty high CV angles and in detailed conversation with Tony (Cracker), not to mention his subtle hinting a few posts back , I'm taking his advice and mocking up the drive train before finalizing my firewall mods.

As you know, I have Tony's "old" LS3 engine. He used his considerable Southern charm and talked me into buying it. (OK, not much taking into required!). I figured it would save some time as it had already been proven in a 914 install, the intake was already flipped, it had low miles and I'd seen/heard video of it running.

Next, I purchased the Renegade Hybrids LS kit and their 6-speed kit. This was all maybe about a year ago. But after all that time, today was the first time I unpacked everything. It was like Christmas!

Gotta say, the Renegade stuff is really nice. Fit and finish is impressive.

I didn't install the flywheel and clutch as this phase is all about determining clearances and deciding if I want to do things like move the motor forward to, at least partially, address the CV angle.

Engine, meet Trans. Trans, Engine!


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 4 2016, 05:27 PM

As I'm looking at this wild set up, I leaned up against the car... and felt something moving...
The car was trembling! But I have to admit, I don't know if it was from excitement or fear!
I've not spent much time around 'Merican power and I have to say, this thing looks fast just sitting there.

What in the world will it be like to drive?

I am so motivated to work on this project!!!


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Posted by: mgp4591 Nov 5 2016, 03:31 AM

QUOTE(Rand @ Oct 28 2016, 06:33 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 28 2016, 05:21 PM)

I'm pretty sure that angle would make it tough to get in and out. If I remember, I'll mock that up and see how bad it might/might not be. Worth a look. Thanks for the idea!

Could be. But look at Sir Andy's car. His is easy to get in/out of. More swooped, but reality is, a bar like this doesn't interfere as much as you'd think. Sometimes it's actually easier to get in and out using the bar. And it triangulates the huge miss behind the firewall! That's an important part of this car, especially when you consider the worst rust weakening happens behind the firewall. Could also run an X tube to front suspension points.

Real cages and reinforcements have already been engineered. This is just brainstorming. But I figure this one red tube does more than all the black ones combined with less weight and effort?

Posted by: 914forme Nov 5 2016, 09:37 AM

All that tooling in your shop I am just

No get back to it get that engine in there, and figure this stuff out. I want to see this at Okteenerfest I know long haul, but you could go for the Iron Butt award.

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 5 2016, 09:56 AM

QUOTE(914forme @ Nov 5 2016, 08:37 AM)

All that tooling in your shop I am just

No get back to it get that engine in there, and figure this stuff out. I want to see this at Okteenerfest I know long haul, but you could go for the Iron Butt award.

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 6 2016, 06:02 PM

It was a frustrating weekend in that I didn't complete what I thought I could. I wanted to get the drive line mocked in but it quickly became apparent I would need some additional jacking capabilities.
But let's start off with this: I'm claiming the record. Not only is my 914 on jack stands, so are my engine and trans!


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 6 2016, 06:05 PM

So the only progress to report for this weekend is that I've fabbed up a jack that should allow me to handle the drive train by myself.
Credit to AndyS for the basic design. I went a little overboard on strength but it's the material I had.

So if anyone asks, you better believe "I know Jack!"


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 6 2016, 06:10 PM

And after all this hard work, I'm adding a little comic relief.
Here's the welding seat I built. Quite comfy with the full suspension!
And yes, that's an exhaust tip from an MV Agusta.

As my wife likes to point out, I'm the only person she knows who needs a muffler on his chair...


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Posted by: JmuRiz Nov 6 2016, 06:21 PM

Amazing how compact an LS motor is!

Posted by: Krieger Nov 6 2016, 07:36 PM

Nice work Chris! You are making amazing progress! I'll have to come back out and take a look.

Posted by: Cracker Nov 6 2016, 07:40 PM

Something else that just came to mind Chris...if you move the drivetrain further forward you may need to slot the trans mounts. Before I forget...

T

PS: I like the welding seat - spring!

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 6 2016, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Nov 6 2016, 06:40 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 12 2016, 05:26 PM

So... the good/bad news is that this week I had my 2nd skin cancer surgery.
A 30 mm x 23mm section of my left cheek removed. Good news is it's gone, bad news is that for a week I'm not supposed to lift more than 15 lbs or do anything that gets my heart rate up. This will limit my planned weekend progress re: fitting the drive train.

I'll just have to do something "light weight". Fine. I'll make some carbon fiber trim panels! I've always liked the Singer treatment where they cover and paint the longs and tunnel in body color so I've decided to do that, too.

The simplest thing to do was to use one of the stiffening blanks as the mold.


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 12 2016, 05:29 PM

I have a bit of 50" wide, 2x2 twill weave left over from when I was doing all the motorcycle parts. Perfect width to make a long cover!

This is the "composite station". I found a giant self healing mat that you see at fabric stores. You can use razor cutters to slice the material and the mat couldn't care less. Very cool.


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 12 2016, 05:32 PM

A little mold release wax and PVA, then 2 layers of carbon and one of fiberglass and I'll be set!

This is just a simple wet layup vs vacuum bagging. I have all the vacuum bagging tools but for something like this, that will likely be painted, this is quicker and less costly.

You think it's boring watching paint dry? Try watching epoxy cure!


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 13 2016, 09:23 AM

And before you ask, yes, these covers are purely esthetic and therefore, break my Cardinal Rule of Composites:
Using carbon fiber to ADD weight!
But hey, with 430 hp, what's a few ozs?

So, fresh out of the mold with a bit of trimming, may I present: one carbon fiber 914 longitudinal cover blank!


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Posted by: Cracker Nov 13 2016, 09:29 AM

Sweet, Chris...I can certify that you won't notice the extra weight!

T

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 13 2016, 09:36 AM

A couple of pics to give you the idea.
I may have to leave them in raw carbon. Remember, it'll have this treatment on the custom tunnel, too. I kinda like it!
I played around and fitted it on both sides, just to get a feel.

Memo to self: REMEMBER to make the other one a mirror image in terms of the direction of the weave... That's why I didn't make one long piece. It's all about the little details.


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 13 2016, 03:47 PM

Well this was a "long" weekend!

Got both carbon long covers done and drilled the stiffeners in prep for installation.

Having installed an Engman kit in another car, I have a new appreciation for parts that come with all the holes in them.


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Posted by: Dion Nov 13 2016, 04:05 PM

Fantastic work Chris.

Posted by: Curbandgutter Nov 13 2016, 04:22 PM

I like your carbon fiber idea. I just may shamelessly steal it.

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 13 2016, 04:57 PM

QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Nov 13 2016, 02:22 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 13 2016, 04:59 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Nov 13 2016, 02:05 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 18 2016, 06:30 PM

Before I install the long stiffeners, I need to close all the heater tube holes that are no longer needed as well as address the hand brake cut out. So this evening I fabbed up all the pieces to get a bit of a head start on the weekend's work.

For the hand brake area, I used a section of the long stiffener blank and trimmed it to fit. These are just sitting for the pic, not fully fit. All these filler pieces will be flush with the long surface so as to give me full contact under the entire length of stiffener!

Boring, I know. But necessary.


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Posted by: Rand Nov 18 2016, 10:03 PM

The ebrake void I get. But, don't bother welding sheet metal into the oval holes if you are putting that badass long overlay on. The ebrake shape void into the long is a compromise, but holes aren't so much when you are overlaying such a strong piece.

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 18 2016, 10:58 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Nov 18 2016, 08:03 PM)

Posted by: Rand Nov 19 2016, 12:34 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 18 2016, 08:58 PM)

QUOTE(Rand @ Nov 18 2016, 08:03 PM)

The ebrake void I get. But, don't bother welding sheet metal into the oval holes if you are putting that badass long overlay on. The ebrake shape void into the long is a compromise, but holes aren't so much when you are overlaying such a strong piece.

Hi Rand - I hear you but there are a few holes in the stiffener that happen to be right where those heater holes are. I figure why not...?

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 19 2016, 01:59 PM

Well, if Rand is concerned I'm overdoing it re: stiffening, this may just send him over the edge!

"While I'm in there", I figured "why not?" and fabbed up this simple support for the hand brake filler. Even drilled if extra weight savings. (I want to be like like Rudy Curbandgutter when I grow up! )

This actually turned out to be a tricky/fun part to fab. I had to get it measured and fitted so that it would support the filler in line with the top and sides of the long. Lots of fit, cut, fit, grind, straight edge, trim, fit, straight egde. But it turned out nicely and supports the stiffener exactly as planned. You'd think I actually knew what I was doing!

So here's today's progress. All this just so I can FINALLY install the long stiffeners...


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Posted by: Rand Nov 19 2016, 02:02 PM

No concerns, lol. Just banter.

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 20 2016, 06:41 PM

Major milestone! Got the engine and trans mocked in!

The throttle body isn't installed (clearly) so now it's time to formalize plans for mods to the trunk to get the needed clearance. I've got a couple different ideas and I need to choose one pretty soon.
But for now, I can finish the lower firewall and get the floor installed knowing I have all the space needed.

I've been feeling a bit stuck but after today, it's full speed ahead. A good feeling.


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Posted by: Wew Nov 20 2016, 08:20 PM

Wow, well done Chris!

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 22 2016, 12:57 PM

With the trans located, I could verify the shifter cable length and order up the Numeric shifter and cables. Gotta say, I think it sure is pretty.
And I got a Black Friday deal on the shifter/cable package!

Hope to get the firewall and floor bracing mocked in over the coming holiday weekend.


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 23 2016, 07:04 PM

OK, even I'm getting tired of pictures of this part of the car! I took today off and got the long stiffeners screwed in place and all set for welding. Then I figured I may as well beef up the foundation for the firewall arch and rear floor cross brace so I fabbed up a set of 90 degree bent 'pads'.

First step was to cut them using the plasma table. A few quick measurements and about a minute with the drawing program and I have the blanks. The hydraulic unit that powers the tubing bender has dry break connectors that plug into the H press.
Position the blanks and hit the Go button!

It all makes quick work of making and shaping these one-off parts.

The goal is that by the end of the weekend, I'll have the stiffeners and firewall frame welded in. Ideally, the floor will be at least partially in. Fit, cut and screwed in place for welding, if all goes well.


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 24 2016, 09:41 AM

A little holiday video of the H press in use bending the support plates.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRBt1pYlS-I

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 25 2016, 07:30 PM

Some of this fab work isn't the most exciting but it needs doing. Tony (Cracker) has suggested moving the engine as far forward as possible to improve the CV angles. The stock engine mounts allow for a bit of movement but not as much as is actually possible. All I need is a set of custom mounts.

Plasma table to the rescue again! 1/4" plate cut to shape. Next I position the drive train where I want it, mount these plates and transfer punch the Renegade engine mount hole location.

The trans mount has some slots that I may be able to lengthen but I suspect there isn't enough material. It's a multi-part mount so if need be, I'll have to make new rear tabs that are 1" or so longer.

It's the sort of mod that will improve reliability so I think it's worth the effort.


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Posted by: 914forme Nov 27 2016, 05:59 PM

It is very easy to push your mounts forward in the stock -4 mount brakes if that is what you are using.

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 27 2016, 06:23 PM

My optimism regarding how much I'd get done this weekend was, well, optimistic.

I was only able to get the stiffeners welded in and the welds ground. Took WAY longer than I expected.

I did get the lower fire wall support pads fit and welded in and the upper brace fit and ready for welding.

CHANGES OF PLAN:
1. I'm tossing those motor mount plates in favor of modifying the Renegade motor mount. It has an offset at the ends to allow for the use of the stock engine mount location while pushing the engine back to clear all the stock sheet metal.

I've decided to modify the ends of the mount to move the mounting points to be in line with the mount. That'll get me a bit more than an inch and I think it's a tidier modification.

2. I'm also tossing the existing front hoop in favor of a taller one that will sit in a different location. It'll be way easier to show pics than to explain it. I hope to get the new hoop bent up this week.


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Posted by: tygaboy Nov 27 2016, 06:25 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Nov 27 2016, 03:59 PM)

It is very easy to push your mounts forward in the stock -4 mount brakes if that is what you are using.

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 27 2016, 11:19 PM

Stiffeners look great, Love the firewall stiffener!!

Posted by: Krieger Nov 28 2016, 12:02 AM

Looking good Chris!

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 1 2016, 01:15 PM

I treated the project to an early Christmas present! Ordered a set of GTS Le Mans seats done up like these: grommets, 5-point belt set up. I went with the oval headrest (vs the one pictured or the one that comes standard with the Le Mans)
I added heaters, too. Gotta keep SWMBO happy, don'cha know.

They are due to arrive end of January. And the rumors are true: Stefan is GREAT to work with, as others have pointed out.

OK, so I also have ulterior motives. I want the roll cage bar that runs from the main hoop to the door bar to match the angle of the side bolster. So I "NEEDED" to get the seats!

Plus, I'll just run them in the '74 DD until I get this one running.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 4 2016, 07:16 PM

The firewall arch installation is FINALLY underway!

I have a TIG machine but:
I the spirit of full disclosure, this beautiful welding is thanks to my buddy Martin, mentioned earlier. He's a master fabricator who designed and build ProStock motorcycle chassis while working at Kosman. He's done all sorts of crazy cool projects... Anyway, we collaborate on various things and he said "Hey, you have a TIG machine. I'd be happy to do the welding on your cage tubes...", I didn't think too long before taking him up on it!

I'll continue to do all the other welding but I have to say, this has me looking forward to when I'll have time to learn and practice TIG. Until then, it's Martin on the final cage welding!



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Posted by: Cracker Dec 4 2016, 07:39 PM

Cheater, cheater, apple eater!

Looks very nice Chris...just make sure I fit!

Tony

Posted by: Rand Dec 4 2016, 08:36 PM

Nice. So great to see a good fish scale weld after all the straight run blobbing that's so common.

Posted by: Curbandgutter Dec 9 2016, 11:54 AM

Love those seats. Those are the ones I'm thinking of using as well. Those grommets really add a classic look to the car. I'd like to sit it them before buying though. Maybe I may make a trip out there and see your build as well.

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 9 2016, 12:35 PM

QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Dec 9 2016, 09:54 AM)

Posted by: ssuperflyoldguy Dec 9 2016, 05:21 PM

Dang. You must have house elves too. Very clean & i'm a little late to the party (jealous of the shop & your tig-welding elf) but I use cold rolled galvanized sheet metal when ever I can. Bitch welding (Maybe Martin can help here too) but no corrosion behind panels & overlaps ever again. FabFab.us - I've used a LOT of sheetmetal, all cold rolled

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 9 2016, 06:04 PM

Lower Fire Wall:
I test fit the motor in the "moved forward 1.5" position and the harmonic balancer was thiiiiiiiiiis close to where the lower fire wall cross beam sits. So I opted to play it safe and clearance the beam in the spirit of "better to be safe than... have two different parts trying to occupy the same space!"

A bit of and then some and the beam can never say "Hey man, would you give me my space!?!?"

It should be fit and welded in this weekend!


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Posted by: Cracker Dec 9 2016, 06:40 PM

Trust me...it is worth the effort.

Tony

Posted by: Curbandgutter Dec 10 2016, 09:40 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 9 2016, 10:35 AM)

QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Dec 9 2016, 09:54 AM)

Love those seats. Those are the ones I'm thinking of using as well. Those grommets really add a classic look to the car. I'd like to sit it them before buying though. Maybe I may make a trip out there and see your build as well.

Rudy - My shop is always open so come on up!
Also, the seats will be installed in my '74 that I plan to have at the WCR so if you're coming to that event, you can take the car for a spin and get more than just a static sit.

I went with the grommets as I'm thinking they'll fit with what I have planned for the rest of the interior. I'll be posting more about that design once I get the firewall, floor and roll cage done.

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 10 2016, 09:42 PM

Slowly making progress. Before I can install the roll bar, I need to reinforce the top of the long, then, in the tradition of "if more is good, too much is just enough", I'm plating in the engine mounts. I'll also add more once I get to installing the Tangerine Racing raised suspension kit.

For now, while it's not final fitment, this will give you an idea of what's planned.

It took most of the day to measure, cut, fit, bend, etc., but I did get both sides done.

Tomorrow, the lower fire wall beam and braces will be final welded.

I like it!


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 12 2016, 11:05 AM

Best laid plans...
Didn't get the welding done that I'd planned. I did get the lower cross beam in place and partially welded in. The fun part was that because I want as much room for the motor to be moved forward, I located that lower beam a bit further forward than the upper, curved one. Those of you who paid attention in geometry class know what fun it was to get the uprights to fit well! They lean back and the top has to account for the curve.
It took about 367 fit, grind, fit, grinds to get them done but - they're done!
The driver side is (currently) offset to ensure no interference with the alternator. I say "currently" because I'm waiting to complete the mods to the front engine mount so I can fit the drivetrain in it's relocated position before final welding the uprights... just in case.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 12 2016, 11:13 AM

And that's not all I got done over the weekend: I was able to bend up the new front roll hoop as well as final fit the rear roll hoop. Also welded in the rear hoop pads.

Pics of all this in a couple days.

Making progress...!

Posted by: mbseto Dec 12 2016, 01:04 PM

Beautiful work!

Posted by: Wew Dec 12 2016, 04:57 PM

Chris, you are an artist. Enjoying the progress you are making.

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 17 2016, 05:25 PM

To move the motor forward, I opted to modify the ends of the Renegade engine mount. As delivered, the bosses on the end are set forward of the cross bar by ~1.5".
Here's a pic of the mount, as delivered from Renegade.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 17 2016, 05:27 PM

So lop off those bosses, make new ones and line it all up with the cross bar.
It'll need a gusset so I used a knock-out punch and dimple die to fab up a suitable part.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 17 2016, 05:34 PM

And the main hoop is final fit and ready for welding!
I wanted to get it as tight to the fire wall as possible so I needed to relieve the top "corner" of the fire wall to get the bar to sit back at the proper angle. No one will ever see this area once the car is built but that "corner" area is essentially reversed from the stock shape.

I used a scrap piece of roll bar material and slowly hammered it into the top of the fire wall area until the bar fit as desired.

I'm not going to run a back pad so I removed the 4 tabs that the back pad clips into to get that last little bit of clearance. There's about 1/8" clearance between the bar and the firewall.

I'm developing an appreciation for why custom builds cost so much. Not that I'm highly skilled or efficient, but the work needed to get the hoop to sit back about a 1/2" (relieve the fire wall then grind the footing of each side of the hoop to the correct angle) took me the better part of the day.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 17 2016, 05:37 PM

It's all fitting just as planned. I how the roll bend of the hoop matches the curve of the window and how the hoop all but disappears.
It'll really disappear once I patch in the fire wall around each side. Can't hardly wait!


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Posted by: napasteve Dec 17 2016, 05:51 PM

Amazing work Chris. It's going to be a rocket ship. BTW that dash looks a little tired..

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 17 2016, 06:03 PM

QUOTE(napasteve @ Dec 17 2016, 03:51 PM)

Amazing work Chris. It's going to be a rocket ship. BTW that dash looks a little tired..

Posted by: Dion Dec 17 2016, 06:45 PM

Sweet work Chris. Really nice. You are kickin it out!

Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 17 2016, 07:14 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 17 2016, 05:03 PM)

QUOTE(napasteve @ Dec 17 2016, 03:51 PM)

Amazing work Chris. It's going to be a rocket ship. BTW that dash looks a little tired..

Hey, I resemble that remark! I prefer "vintage" or "patina"!

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 18 2016, 03:55 PM

Did I say I wasn't efficient? Well, turns out I thought I should check to be sure my fabulous gussets would work... They wouldn't. They need to be flat for the first ~3" to clear the engine mount on the chassis. So that earlier work is throw-away. My own dang fault but, oh well.

So, I opted to design up the new gussets and cut them on the plasma table. The trellis look is more in keeping with the theme I have planned for the car so it's out with the holes and in with the triangles (ish). Another part of the car that will go unseen by essentially everyone but I do like these better than the first design.

That existing bracket is the electric water pump mount. I figured I'd just tie into it.
I hope to have it welded tomorrow.

Then it's on to the transmission mounting brackets and updating them to address the 1 1/2" forward position. I have what I think is a pretty good design. More on that in the next few days.


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Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 18 2016, 04:57 PM

I applauded your effort,, and follow it ,,my question is ...Roll bar,,why not like this but just tall enough for a top..its my next roll bar.. right behind the latch..


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Posted by: Rand Dec 18 2016, 05:22 PM

Because it sticks out like a sore thumb? I appreciate it when the original lines are preserved. (I know, aesthetics go out the window with race cars because function first, but if they don't have to, all the better.) His car is going to be plenty stiff. Are you concerned with rollover protection beyond the stock hoop? (I know, I'm full of opinions, but I ask because I want to learn.)

Posted by: Cracker Dec 18 2016, 07:13 PM

That bar is at a functional height due to a safety standard. Damn with originality if its not legal and not safe if not legal. Many race cars are driven at speed with non-compliant upper roll hoops (which equals stupid in my book).

Nice work Chris! Make sure I fit - I want to take it for a spin this Summer! No breaks for you...

Tony

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 18 2016, 07:15 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 18 2016, 02:57 PM)

I applauded your effort,, and follow it ,,my question is ...Roll bar,,why not like this but just tall enough for a top..its my next roll bar.. right behind the latch..

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 18 2016, 07:28 PM

Do I have ADD? Maybe. Today, for sure. Too many things going at once! After I cut the gussets, I got distracted by the main hoop again.

I can't get the hoop into place with the final interior sheet metal in place - the shape of the hoop and angle it has to be at to be fit into the car don't allow it.

Before the hoop can be welded in, I have to fab a bunch of pieces of sheet metal that will be slipped onto the hoop, slid out of the way while it's set in place and welded in. Then all the sheet metal will slid into place to be welded.

It's hard to explain but maybe this series of pics will help.

This is the early fab and fitting of how I plan to close in the hoop. I punched and dimple died that top piece and started messing with rolling the other piece and using the bead roller to form the flange.
I'll use a combination of fabricated pieces and some of the stock firewall from the parts car. So at this point, it's really at the "see how this fits/looks, try again if I don't like it" stage. By the way, I don't like this. It'll be MUCH tidier, the stamped elements in the fire wall will terminate in an attractive way, etc.

But you get the idea.


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Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 19 2016, 01:22 AM

its all good , I did not I'mply for it to stick out like a sore thumb , just integrated into the body ,similar to the pic but at the og body height with his small bend radius it would blend in...no race car...

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 19 2016, 09:58 AM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 18 2016, 11:22 PM)

Posted by: 3d914 Dec 19 2016, 06:44 PM

Chris, so you're not going to use that good-looking roll-bar? You're engine bar (cross-bar) looks really nice too!

Posted by: waltonsm Dec 19 2016, 10:18 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 19 2016, 07:58 AM)

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 18 2016, 11:22 PM)

its all good , I did not I'mply for it to stick out like a sore thumb , just integrated into the body ,similar to the pic but at the og body height with his small bend radius it would blend in...no race car...

I bent up a more traditional main hoop before deciding to go with the low hoop. This would make a great start for a non-race car. Know anyone who'd want it? :D

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 20 2016, 08:42 AM

QUOTE(waltonsm @ Dec 19 2016, 08:18 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 20 2016, 07:15 PM

Finished the modification of the engine mount - gusset final welding complete!
I plan to get everything modified, installed and get the car running then blow it apart and do the powder coating, etc. So for now, I'll just rattle can primer parts like this.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 20 2016, 07:23 PM

With the engine mount complete, it's time to deal with the 1.5" position change on the trans mounts. The good news is that the Renegade mount is made of multiple parts and thankfully, their design allows for a pretty simple solution: make a couple spacers. 1 1/2 " spacers, but spacers, nonetheless.

Nothing like finding a block of aluminum that happens to be the exact right thickness! Got lucky on that one, for sure.

So here's an action shot of the worlds most kick-ass band saw making short work of roughing out said spacers. It cut through that block "like butta..."

Yes, this spacer means there's a big increase in the leverage on the mount. But fear not! The Boxster trans has a mount on the end that I'm going to use to add a 3rd trans mount. In all, the drive train should be well secured in it's new, forward position.

I hope to get it test fit in the next day or so. Once I've verified all the clearances, I'll go after closing in the fire wall and floor. I'll claim MAJOR MILESTONE at that point.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 20 2016, 07:34 PM

With solid progress on the mounts, I went back to working on the main hoop fitment.

I'm sure I'm not alone in laying awake at night, running through "... now how am I gonna make this work...? If it have to make tab A fit into slot B, first I'd need to..."

You know what I'm taking about, don't you?

So, after many sleepless hours, I figured if I split the hole the hoop goes through, I'd be able to finish weld the area that will end up being behind the hoop. This does 2 things:
1. it perfectly locates the hoop every time I remove it / replace it to do whatever needs doing, and,
2. it allows me full access to metal finish every bit of welding I need to do to close it in!

Again, no one but me may ever see this part of the car but I want it to look as factory as possible. So far, I'm happy with how this part is turning out.


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Posted by: Rand Dec 20 2016, 07:47 PM

Totally enjoying your build thread. It's so great to see thoughtful fabrication, attention to detail, and... quality welds! (Nice scales instead of straight blobs laid on top, or worse, what I jokingly call "eagle crap" lol)

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 21 2016, 07:07 PM

Nothing like being on vacation to get things done! The spacers are nearly done. See how the trans mounts are slotted? When I test fit the drive train, the bolts end up tight against the end of the mount slot so I'm going to mill ~1/4" off the spacers. Better all around with that minor adjustment.
Plus, I'll dress the corners and probably add some relief pockets to lighten then up.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 21 2016, 07:16 PM

And this will start to give you an idea of the new mount I want to add to address the additional leverage those spacers give the Renegade trans mounts.

The Boxster trans has a mount at the end. I'll either use that by punching a hole and adding a boss that will support this 3rd mount or I'll fab up a new mount.

Then, when I build the rear part of the cage/stiffening, I'll run bars from the shock mounts, past the stock trans mount cross bar and out to support this mount.
I'll drop supports to the stock trans mount, too. More on this as I get to it.

Boy, I say that alot. But then, there's a lot to get to! But it's coming along.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 21 2016, 07:20 PM

And here are the money shots: What does moving the drive train forward 1.5" look like?
Well, the harmonic balancer/alternator belt will live juuuuust inside the engine side outer fire wall! That's the rear floor pan in the stock location. So a couple key points:

1. You can see that there's no way this would have worked without messing with the lower section of the fire wall.
2. Good thing I just happened to add an arched upper fire wall support! If I'd opted for a straight bar, I'd have had interference.

And there are a couple spots on the upper fire wall that I did have to relieve:
1. at the left side valve cover and
2. a small adjustments to provide extra clearance for the Renegade water block. It clears, but only just, so I figure better safe than sorry.

But best of all, this is exactly how it was planned to fit. And it did!

OK, I sorta lied. Turns out, I didn't HAVE to add that clearance crescent in the lower cross bar. But to be fair, right before that was welded in, I bumped it forward about 1/4", "just in case". Again, better safe than sorry.

The only concession is that I'll need one small access hole to access the allen bolt when adjusting the alternator belt tension. I've already verified I can get the belt on and off, too.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 21 2016, 07:32 PM

Next, the rear floor goes in and it's on to the custom floor bracing and tunnel!

Posted by: Cracker Dec 21 2016, 07:39 PM

Pick up the pace Chris...you are obviously taking your time!

I knew it would be tight but...

T

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 21 2016, 07:42 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Dec 21 2016, 05:39 PM)

Pick up the pace Chris...you are obviously taking your time!

I knew it would be tight but...

T

Posted by: Curbandgutter Dec 23 2016, 10:14 AM

Love your work. Are you planning on adding lateral bracing in the open area of the lower firewall using sheet metal and bracing or only sheet metal? Loving the progress so far. I'm progressing on mine but I'm waiting until I reach a "milestone" before I post again. BTW loved how you slipped the sheet metal around your hoop so that you can weld it in later. Excellent thinking and craftsmanship!

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 23 2016, 06:34 PM

Time to mill the spacers. Here's an action shot of the flycutter doing its thing , the finished products and the new spacers installed.

Prior to resizing them, it was a bit of work to get everything lined up and the hanger bolts in place. Now, both sides slide in just like that!


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 23 2016, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Dec 23 2016, 08:14 AM)

Posted by: Cracker Dec 23 2016, 06:37 PM

I know I caused you allot of extra work but I guarantee you - it was the right call to take it on! Merry Christmas to you and Lori!

PS: All of that "spacer" weight might slow the car down a bit...

T

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 26 2016, 06:26 PM

Today was about closing up the main hoop and fire wall.
I started with this little spot above the fire wall arch.
First, cut a paper template (and remember to account for the flanges!)
Then I used the bead roller to fold the flanges.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 26 2016, 06:29 PM

Here's the template and the finished piece.

It's funny, I talked with Tony (Cracker) today and we laughed about how these build threads show all the pics but there's no real evidence of just how much work it takes to get from what was to what now is.

All told, this little piece took me about 2 hours to make.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 26 2016, 06:30 PM

...but it turned out quite nicely!


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 26 2016, 06:33 PM

I was feeling pretty good about fabbing sheet metal so I figured I may as well get started on the inner fire wall.
Template, metal shears, fit, fit, fit and...

Well, OK... There will be some more fitting. But it's looking good so far.

Next is laying out and rolling in some sort of bead to help it resist oil canning and to add some visual appeal.


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Posted by: Andyrew Dec 27 2016, 09:34 AM

Looking good!!!!

That extra clearance for the pulley will just make it easier to replace the belt...

Posted by: Krieger Dec 27 2016, 02:30 PM

That looks really good Chris! You are very talented at fabrication! Fred and Wilma are going to love it!

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 27 2016, 06:11 PM

Did the final trimming and fitting of the lower fire wall. The electric shears are awesome and make quick work of getting a clean cut right to the mark.

Got the final flange bent across the top. Happy with the fit.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 27 2016, 06:13 PM

Here a shot of the fire wall and how it's fit with the little filler piece made earlier. Almost looks like I know what I'm doing...!


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 27 2016, 06:20 PM

Next I started on the boxing in of the main roll hoop, this time on the engine side.
I made paper templates to figure the location of the holes then used the dimple die to pretty them up.

These slide up out of the way to allow for the hoop to be welded to the pads that are welded to the longs. Then these slide into place and get welded in as part of boxing in the engine mounts.

Can't tell you what a relief it is to fit the second on and actually have it all fit!

Remember, this is the first time I've tried virtually any of this sort of fabrication and I hope it encourages anyone who's thinking of giving it a go. I just take my time, measure 100 times and only post pics of when it actually works out!


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Posted by: cali914 Dec 27 2016, 11:58 PM

Very nice I wish I could weld like that.

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 28 2016, 04:33 PM

Continuing work on fabbing the parts needed to close in the roll hoop. I made up the front 1/2 of the "cap" on the passenger side.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 28 2016, 04:36 PM

Then I started on the final part. Here's a look at how I approach making the paper template. Once this is fitting as desired, it's transferred to 18 gauge and formed / trimmed til it fits. Easy, no?

Well, except then I get to (try and) make a mirror image for the other side. That's always the "interesting" part...


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 30 2016, 03:53 PM

The ADD kicked in again and I got distracted with other areas of the car. I've been debating what to do re: keep vs lose the trunk. It would appear I've decided!

If you've seen Tony's car, you'll know why I think of this modification as partial "Cracker Replica". Imitation being the sincerest form, and all that.

It certainly eases access to, um, everything!

And yes, there will be roll bar/chassis stiffening added.

This will never be mistaken for a sleeper but I do want to be able to store the top so while I still have trimming to do, I will leave a lip all around the edge as I plan to make a removable "trunk tray/liner" to provide a least some protection for the top.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 30 2016, 03:57 PM

That darned ADD! Once the trunk was out, I played with an initial design for the console. This essentially gives away the styling cues I'm going with throughout the interior: a very industrial, trellis, open architecture-y look that leaves all the mechanical elements exposed.

A looooooong way yet to go but it gives you the idea.


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Posted by: Cracker Dec 30 2016, 06:19 PM

That does look familiar...glad to have you aboard! After seeing your fabrication skills - I am very much looking forward to seeing the greatly enhanced "Cracker Replica" version.
Just make sure the cockpit fits a 6'5" frame (Um, drivers side...)!

Happy new-years to you Chris!

Tony

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 30 2016, 04:57 PM)

Posted by: napasteve Dec 30 2016, 06:23 PM

I don't see how this machine will remain earthbound.......

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 31 2016, 05:33 PM

I did the final trimming of most of the main open area, leaving that lip for the removable cover I'm planning. I still have to remove the front of the trunk wall above and outside of the suspension consoles...

Then I started on fabrication on the stiffeners for between the consoles.

Another arch... Imagine that. The top bar will also serve as the point from which a bracket will extend forward to support the stock engine cover latch.

I'll end up plating around the consoles so neither of these are quite where they'll end up. But close enough for me to determine what I want to do. I have an idea for a panel that will sit between them. It'll add some additional strength as well as visual appeal!


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 31 2016, 05:36 PM

QUOTE(napasteve @ Dec 30 2016, 04:23 PM)

Posted by: mb911 Dec 31 2016, 05:47 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 31 2016, 03:36 PM)

QUOTE(napasteve @ Dec 30 2016, 04:23 PM)

I don't see how this machine will remain earthbound.......

Well, at the rate I'm going, it'll be earthbound for a while... I'm starting to wonder if the 9/14 date is hopeless. Not that I'm giving up, but...

Posted by: Dion Dec 31 2016, 10:33 PM

That cutting up and gifting the pieces from the other car took up a bunch of your fab time.

Looking great though and you are further along then I am.
[/quote]

Totally agree with Ben. However Chris your build is mind blowing.
The shifter console structure is a work of art.
Truly unique approach tying the chassis together in the manner you have.
It will be very cool to see this 914 in motion!

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 2 2017, 04:26 PM

Did the final removal of the trunk and up around the suspension consoles. Then I started fabrication of the plates that will reinforce the consoles in prep for installing the stiffeners.
Man, doing this stuff takes forever... but it REALLY opens things up and allows for optimal location of the rear part of the stiffening bars.

I have an idea for the trans mount cross member, too. Should be pretty neat looking and add some strength.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 8 2017, 01:56 PM

It's raining in northern CA...
This is our back field. That's about 2.5 ' deep.... and it's flowing.

Kinda scary.

Makes for a good day to immerse myself in more fab work...


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 8 2017, 01:59 PM

With the removal of the trunk sheet metal complete, we get to see a part of our cars I've rarely seen: The point where the long stops and sorta has a wimpy tie into the rear shock towers.

Gotta do something about that.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 8 2017, 02:01 PM

So I fabbed up a 1/8" plate that I bent and trimmed to fit. Here's an almost final fit.
I'll cap this off with...


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 8 2017, 02:02 PM

... a cap! Again, not the final fit, but you get the idea.
I think I'll box this from the inside edge down to the bottom of the long, making kind of a triangulated box.


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Posted by: napasteve Jan 8 2017, 02:03 PM

Any thought to some amphibious car features for the Beast? Might be handy if you need to run to town!

Posted by: Mueller Jan 8 2017, 02:25 PM

Great progress....

Posted by: Lennies914 Jan 8 2017, 04:51 PM

Happy New Year Chris!

Love following your progress on the car. You weren't kidding when you said it was going to be "top notch"!



Sandy and I would love to come up and see the car this spring.

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 9 2017, 12:05 PM

QUOTE(Lennies914 @ Jan 8 2017, 02:51 PM)

Happy New Year Chris!

Love following your progress on the car. You weren't kidding when you said it was going to be "top notch"!



Sandy and I would love to come up and see the car this spring.

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 12 2017, 07:30 PM

I started messing with the intake. In running the Mass Airflow Sensor (MAF), I have to follow a few rules about where the sensor has to be, relative to the throttle body. I need a minimum of 10 inches from the throttle body, six inches of straight tube, the sensor has to be set at between a 9:00 - 3:00 orientation...

So, a bit of a puzzle and a bit of mystery?

A puzzle is when you have all the pieces and "just" have to figure out how they fit.
A mystery is "profound, inexplicable, or of secretive quality or character."

I really do have a bit of both going on here: I have some pieces, I have some pieces yet to make.

But I swear, as I start looking at how I'll have to build the intake to meet the above criteria, fit the stiffening bars, run a suitable air cleaner AND make it all fit under the targa top (which needs to somehow still safely store in this area...) ???!?!?!?!?

Well, it's currently a flippin' MYSTERY to me! Certainly, the "secretive quality" part...

But fear not, World. I will solve it.

ps. I'm loving how this is starting to look. That's a 4" intake tube. Small children and pets will need to be careful they aren't sucked in!


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Posted by: Cracker Jan 12 2017, 08:25 PM

...ask the engine - it knows the drill!

T

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 12 2017, 08:35 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 12 2017, 06:25 PM)

...ask the engine - it knows the drill!

T

Posted by: Cracker Jan 12 2017, 08:39 PM

I live in the South but am from C-A-L-I-!

Regarding the top - mine would fit if I actually wanted it to Chris. My fist LS conversion I did store it in the trunk on factory clips. No biggie.

T

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 12 2017, 09:35 PM)

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 12 2017, 06:25 PM)

...ask the engine - it knows the drill!

T

Yeah, except that part about storing the top. You Southerners... always taking the easy way out...

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 13 2017, 03:58 AM

So Southern California, Tony?!

Posted by: Cracker Jan 13 2017, 09:50 AM

Sorry Chris - last hi-jack + free bump!

Mom from Thousand Oaks; Dad from Bay area; Conceived (weirdly I know) in between on coast. I am an original "Central" Cali dude! Capiche!

Now past my family tree...back to Chris's lame build.

T

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Jan 13 2017, 04:58 AM)

So Southern California, Tony?!

Posted by: andys Jan 13 2017, 11:14 AM

Chris,

I've been remiss at commenting on your terrific build. Nice work; well thought out. I look forward to reading more as you progress. Keep up the good work!!

Andys

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 13 2017, 01:00 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 21 2016, 08:42 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 12 2017, 08:30 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 13 2017, 01:46 PM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Jan 13 2017, 11:00 AM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 21 2016, 08:42 PM)

To quote a builder I admire (David Palatov of Palatov Motorsport):

"Clearance is clearance."

Palatov is awesome! He turns out some pretty cool stuff and his blog is second to none.

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 12 2017, 08:30 PM)

I started messing with the intake. In running the Mass Airflow Sensor (MAF), I have to follow a few rules about where the sensor has to be, relative to the throttle body. I need a minimum of 10 inches from the throttle body, six inches of straight tube, the sensor has to be set at between a 9:00 - 3:00 orientation...

How big is that motor? It wants 6" straight upstream then 10" downstream to TB? Interesting. That seems a little restrictive since the air shouldn't be moving super fast so the velocity profile should be pretty uniform. A while ago I actually took a similar style [thermal] sensor and offset mounted it in a duct bend to measure the effective average flow but that took a fair bit of analysis.

Maybe just some stiffener tube scalloping would make everything fit nicely. It does look pretty cool now!

Thanks for showing pictures of the end of the long. There is a thread around here with some, but yours show the attachment issue much better.

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 13 2017, 02:22 PM

QUOTE(andys @ Jan 13 2017, 09:14 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 15 2017, 08:01 AM

Feeling boxed in? My rear shock towers are with you!

After a bit more head scratching, I decided to go a different route: I wanted to run one piece of reinforcement from the long up to and around the tower. Since I'm not exactly sure how the removable trunk liner will work, I opted to retain the lip the runs up the tower.

So I sliced a channel for the sheet metal.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 15 2017, 08:09 AM

Then I made a pattern and fit a piece that slips down into that channel. This is the driver's side, which I just happened to tackle first.

I tacked it in, "persuading" it to wrap the tower, plug welding as I went along.

Then fit and tacked in the top part. It's plug welded, too. I still have to final trim the top part where it wraps the tower. I left it a bit tall for now as I may plate it to the Tangerine Racing raised rear shock towers, once those are installed.

Then I need to add a bottom piece to close in the box and seam weld everything.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 15 2017, 10:44 AM

Let me back up and show a bit more detail.
Here's the pattern and the trimmed and bent piece, then how it fits before I start tacking and wrapping it around the tower.

Exciting, I know...!


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 15 2017, 02:38 PM

Tacked and plug welding my way around. I use a rubber mallet to help get it around the tower. The big clamp sure makes it easy to get the last couple plug welds.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 15 2017, 02:40 PM

All done and ready for the final trimming before the seams get welded!


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 15 2017, 02:42 PM

High altitude shot of the rough finished rear tower stiffening. This will be LOTS better than stock.

I feel like I made some progress this weekend!


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 15 2017, 02:47 PM

Now I can get on with the bars.
Here's the final design on the cross bracing. I'll add a filler plate between them with some fun/interesting cut outs.

The final shot is proof that I have clearance and can fit the top with the arched upper bar!

I then laid the trunk on and everything clears. Woop, woop!

Now I'll fab up some brackets for those clips that hold the front of the top. I also need a bracket to locate the hood latch. This part of the car feels like it's finally coming together.


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Posted by: altitude411 Jan 15 2017, 03:04 PM

Really enjoying your build Chris, thanks for taking the time to post.

Posted by: ssuperflyoldguy Jan 16 2017, 12:56 AM

Every time I come visit this thread there is less & less blue car there - gonna be a little sad when you start closing it in - great build tho - Napa Rocket Garage. Gonna have to come up n see Martin about some Mini stuff (he needs a transmission which I may have 4 more tomorrow), then he can tell me how much of the welding is yours...

Posted by: mbseto Jan 16 2017, 08:50 AM

No weld thru primer on that layer over the suspension tower?

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 16 2017, 09:14 AM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Jan 16 2017, 06:50 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 21 2017, 06:00 PM

I made up a new top cross bar because of I totally screwed up the angles of the end cuts as I was trying to final fit the first one I'd made. The joy of not using straight material is I had to duplicate the roll bend. Not that big a deal but it's another repeat effort and time spent that really gets me no further along. Ah, well...

Once that was done, I wanted to get some ideas for the filler plate so I made up a paper template. I measured it to get the dimensions for the plasma table's design software. Then I started messing with various design elements.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 21 2017, 06:02 PM

Here's the initial version, ready to cut.
The six little holes running across the middle are 'marker' cuts that simply locate where to drill for the lightening holes - you'll see once it's all done.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 21 2017, 06:05 PM

Result!

It's like cheating. I could never have done this by hand. Well, OK, I could have.

But it would look like crap!




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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 21 2017, 06:14 PM

Then it's trimming to fit all the inevitable nooks and crannies and little details that happened when I plated around the shock towers.

Next, the knock out punches and dimple dies.

And here's V1 of the filler panel!

Yes, the throttle body is off-center. I opted to live with that being the asymmetrical element, rather than something else. I'm toying with making a removable panel that has a tighter fit to the air cleaner tube. We'll see.


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Posted by: ConeDodger Jan 21 2017, 06:28 PM

This thing will be epic!

Posted by: Krieger Jan 21 2017, 06:51 PM

That's friggin awesome looking! Nice work Chris!

Posted by: Cracker Jan 21 2017, 07:21 PM

Mee likey...

T

Posted by: Dion Jan 21 2017, 07:40 PM

That is a badass intimidating touch!

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 22 2017, 09:22 AM

Here's a V2 design. No, I won't be applying for a job as a Photoshop operator. All I have is MS Paint. Hey, it works well enough for me to test ideas.

Anyway, V1 had those cut outs that I wasn't sure I liked. Maybe a little too "hot roddy". Lightening holes seem more fitting.

Plus, with a physical example to play with and see from all angles, I decided I wanted to close up around the sides of the intake and get a bit more room under it. You can't see it but there was only about 1/4" - 3/8" clearance on the underside. I don't know how much the motor may move around but I want more room there.

This is one of the "fun" parts about design stuff: When to call it "done" and get on with other stuff that may actually get this car on the road!

At this point, I'll likely go with V2. Time for less and more and ! Oh, and some day:


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 22 2017, 01:20 PM

Details, details. I don't have a dimple die the size of the of-cut outs that run across the top and bottom. Since I knew I was going to make a new panel, I figured I'd use this as a practice piece. I used he bead roller and tipped in a lip that I was hoping would match the dimples on the holes.

I think I was successful and IMO, without these, it looked incomplete. It's these sorts of things that REALLY finish off the look! I'm loving how this is turning out.

This was just practice and on the final version, I'll notch the corners of the dimples so they wrap the cross bar.

Can't wait to get started on the V2 design! I'm out of metal so the rest of this weekend is going to shop clean up - which is sorely needed.

(And wait 'til you see what's planned for the transmission support!)


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Posted by: csdilligaf Jan 22 2017, 01:32 PM

I like the bead rolled edge. Recently saw a video on how to do it. Did you use the special dies? Coming along great, keep it up.

Posted by: Cracker Jan 22 2017, 01:38 PM

Chris - maybe I am looking at this wrong but I would like to see that as an enclosed panel...maybe you are doing that anyway. Make a duplicate in reverse and weld the seam. Understand?

T

Posted by: Krieger Jan 22 2017, 02:26 PM

I like the second one even better!

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 22 2017, 07:30 PM

I did get the shop somewhat cleaned up but the car kept calling "Please work on me!"
I couldn't say no...

Before I weld in the top cross bar, I need to install some support pads. The fun part is the bar lands on the top of the inner fender, right smack on a compound curve.

I could do the 'tack, bend, tack' but I decided to "get fancy". First a bit of history:

Back in the fall of last year, I took a 3-day metal shaping class with Lazze at his place in Pleasanton, CA. It was a very cool class. You need to take it. But be careful: The only down side (as is Lazze's plan, I'm sure )is you come out of the class having used these awesome tools and, if you're me, you get home and obsess about having to have those very same tools. So yes, I treated myself to the bead roller, shrinker/stretcher and English wheel. I have to say, it's reeeeeealy nice stuff.

Back to today: So far, on this build, I've been able to leverage the bead roller and shrinker/stretcher but I've not yet had the occasion to need to use the English wheel. Well, when a compound curve is needed, it's the English wheel to the rescue!

I made up a little curve template, grabbed a piece of scrap and went to town, hoping I'd remember what I learned in class.

Seems like I did. It fits just so!

This may not be much to look at but it's one of the pieces I'm most proud of. Why? Well, you can't fit that small a part in the wheel. I had to "get it right" while this piece was part of a much larger sheet of steel. And I need it to be correctly curved before being able to test fit it. So essentially, I only had one chance to trim it correctly.

And once it's installed, virtually no one will ever notice.

(Now I get to do it again on the other side...! )

Funny... one of my longest posts and it about the smallest piece I'll probably fab.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 22 2017, 07:42 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 22 2017, 11:38 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 22 2017, 07:48 PM

QUOTE(csdilligaf @ Jan 22 2017, 11:32 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 24 2017, 04:56 PM

Panel design, V2. Maybe some day I'll get this design thing figured out a bit better and not have to "build, fit, trim, fit, realize there was a (few) incorrect assumptions and now do it all over again". As much as I like doing all this stuff, it'd be nice to get it right the first time and not build multiple versions.

I guess that's what experience is all about!

Anyway, if you compare V2 to V1, you'll see I changed the 'wings' quite a bit to close a gap between the top edge of the panel and the cross bar. And I moved and changed the shape of the intake tube hole to add a bit more interest. I also changed a couple dimensions so I won't have to do as much trimming/fitting.

I think the holes vs the cutouts will be more in line with the look I'm going for.

Hope to get it cut before the weekend.


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Posted by: jd74914 Jan 24 2017, 09:05 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 24 2017, 05:56 PM)

Panel design, V2. Maybe some day I'll get this design thing figured out a bit better and not have to "build, fit, trim, fit, realize there was a (few) incorrect assumptions and now do it all over again". As much as I like doing all this stuff, it'd be nice to get it right the first time and not build multiple versions.

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 24 2017, 05:56 PM)

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jan 25 2017, 07:22 PM

Wow Chris the way you treated that panel was MASTERFUL! Love it man. I was wondering how you were going to get the shear forces to transfer from the top of strut to the lower portion of the strut! Well done!! I tell ya......you're giving me ideas. Looks wicked by the way

Posted by: Cracker Jan 25 2017, 07:31 PM

You two should just "get a room"...

LOL

T

Posted by: 914dave Jan 26 2017, 10:14 AM

Really nice work! I like the details.

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 28 2017, 09:13 AM

I changed my mind! (Nothing new there...) I decided that I want to run the console the length of the tunnel, from under the front roll hoop to the firewall, so I started playing with designs.
Here's a reminder pic of the 'shorty' Version 1 again, along with the new design. Version 2 is taller up front to get the shifter to the desired height.

This is just brainstorming as I still need to work out things like where the cup holders will go...


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Posted by: Cracker Jan 28 2017, 09:17 AM

Chris: Honestly, it looks a little busy (to me). Are all of those "lightening holes" going to be exposed? There can be elegance in simplicity, ehh? Maybe I would like it more as a completed unit...cut it out!

PS: How about adapting a similar design to the rear shock tower panel to the console? Cool as hell and aesthetically tied to other components...you are doing a great (great!) job. These are just my thoughts...pal.

T

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 28 2017, 09:34 AM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jan 28 2017, 07:17 AM)

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jan 28 2017, 10:56 AM

Chris you're doing a great job and you did say you want the comments coming right? I'm with Tony, make it a little simpler. Maybe something that has a combination of lightening holes and triangles that reveals a strut form. It seems too ornate. But heck if I had access to that plasma cutter I'd probably make something that looks like bad freeway art......you know like something that could be found in an Aztec pyramid.

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 28 2017, 11:08 AM

Yep, yep, it'll be simpler. And speaking of things one can make with a plasma table, here's a sneak at something I'll be cutting soon.
A 4 foot tall crest! I plan to hang it in my office.
I'm cutting it in layers so the various elements will stand off the background of the crest.
Should be pretty cool. If I can fit it, I'll bring it to the WCR in June!


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Posted by: Cracker Jan 28 2017, 11:14 AM

Please make a second copy for my hauler or shop...I won't charge you for my criticism - even trade!

Tony

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jan 28 2017, 12:08 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 28 2017, 04:51 PM

I was swamped at work this week so didn't get any after-hours shop time so spent part of today completing V2 of the panel. The plasma table is just so cool!

Here's the panel after trimming/fitting. It looks so much better with the top line following the crossbar arch all the way across.

I'm REALLY happy with how I got it to fit. Nice and tight:


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 28 2017, 04:58 PM

Then it was back to the knock-out punches and dimple dies. I did the same bead rolled tip edge on the large top and bottom openings.

I am so much happier with this design over the first one. The shape of the intake opening, the fact that the opening stays within the panel. Much better.

So I've proved yet again that I need to get a look at things in place on the car vs. on a computer screen. Maybe I'll get better at this. It'd sure be more efficient, both in time and cost.

So if you couldn't tell, I really like this piece.

(Know anyone who wants to buy V1? )


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Posted by: Cracker Jan 28 2017, 05:00 PM

Badass - love it!

T

Posted by: Andyrew Jan 28 2017, 05:12 PM

The stuff you can do with a plasma cutter...

Looks great! I agree the center console is a bit complex but it does look strong

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 29 2017, 08:07 PM

I, too, think that initial console design is messy. Im redoing it and will post once V2 is ready for its debut.

Most of today was spent reorganizing the shop. It had gotten to the point where I could barely get around. Much better now.

So not much to report other than starting to work up the design for the rear trans mount. Having moved the drive train forward, there's more leverage on the existing trans mounts so I want to add the rear mount. Probably not really needed but I like to have a little insurance, just to be sure.

I'm still at the "hmmm, maybe this would work..." stage. These low bars will be triangulated with bars that run from the top are of the shock towers and tie into them at the trans cross brace. It may be that the top bars extend to the rear mount and the low bars tie into them. And these are just pieces I had laying around so it's all up for grabs. As I said, I'm still playing with design while trying to account for things like a removable trunk liner, etc. Fun all around!


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 30 2017, 08:26 AM

Uh oh, this can't be good...

I think I may make panel V3. This one would be aluminum plate cut on a water jet, just like the shorty console plate. It would bolt to bosses welded to the cross bars and shock towers. It'd be a way bigger deal to do but...

I'm thinking I'd back it up with a carbon fiber panel.

Yes, I know I'll eventually need to decide and move on. But this design makes it far simpler for me to seal up the trunk area and keep (most of) the heat away from the intake and top, when it's stored.

We shall see.


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Posted by: mbseto Jan 30 2017, 12:02 PM

Love the flourishes. Shows a confident build.

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 30 2017, 12:56 PM

In planning the rear trans mount, I opted not to use the stock Boxster mount, nice as it was, all cast aluminum and all. It positioned the attachment point high. So I'm playing with designs for a mount that will keep everything under the height of the stock trunk floor's level.

This time, I'm going to try cutting the whole part and folding the sides and top into position for welding.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 30 2017, 01:05 PM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Jan 30 2017, 10:02 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jan 31 2017, 12:02 PM

Last night, I cut and folded the rear trans mount. Here it is, before seam welding. And it turned out just like it was supposed to... Thing is, I don't like it. Too bulky, bigger than it really needs to be.

So January closes with another "let's do it differently on the next one!"
At least I'm consistent!


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 31 2017, 12:10 PM

As long as I had the plasma machine fired up, I figured I'd play with a design for load distribution/attaching the lower stiffening bars. These would have sheet metal closing in the tops.

I may mock up a design that uses these pieces on the outside of the bars but where the inner piece runs all the way across between them.

My first thought when I set these in place was "Holy holes, Batman!"

I need to be careful of a couple things:
1. Too much of one design element and,
2. Creating a bunch of nooks and crannies for crap to get into


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Posted by: tygaboy Jan 31 2017, 12:17 PM

another


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 3 2017, 11:39 AM

And here's the new rear trans mount design. It's more compact and I think looks better, too. Function and form... Win-win!


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 3 2017, 01:23 PM

I have most of the rear trunk modification pieces figured out and cut or at least roughed out. Now it's time to permanently install everything. It's turning out that the first piece that has to be welded in is the Tangerine Racing raised rear shock tower kit. So here I go...

First, I have to give a shout out to Chris Foley at Tangerine - great products and even better support. Every time I've called, he's answered the phone and been more than willing to spend as much time as I needed to answer my questions.
VENDOR OF THIS BUILD, for sure!

Anyway, I copied Stephen's (914forme) approach and welded in a disc with a pre-drilled hole just to help. Then it's hole saw away, trying not to have my arms ripped from my body when it grabs.

The only thing I could think once the first one was done was "Well, I'm committed now..."


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 3 2017, 04:37 PM

I'm bouncing around between the shock towers and rear trans mount.
The final design for the mount used a different top piece. Better all around.


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Posted by: Andyrew Feb 3 2017, 05:07 PM

Rear trans mount when you have those beefy side mounts seems redundant but hey thats half the fun, right?

Posted by: Curbandgutter Feb 3 2017, 07:07 PM

Hey Chris I too wonder if that support is required. Regardless though it does look trick. I'm thinking that if your tranny came off a 911 then you probably don't need it. However I'd leave it just cause it looks so good and you can never go wrong in over engineering. Sometimes belts and suspenders are good.

Posted by: Krieger Feb 3 2017, 07:45 PM

Hey Chris! You fab skills are awesome! I was wondering if you had considered putting one new support "tube" across the width of the trunk about 12" in front of the existing factory structure that the stock trans bolts to? It would be directly above the black bar that is already mounted to your Boxster trans. The tube could be welded to part of the shock towers as well. It would simplify you mounting and maybe save some weight. You could even elminate...dare I say all of the beautiful creations you have between the shock towers. Thats the minimalist me. I know you have a serious amount of time in the mounts/ bracketry . It just seems like that black trans "adapter" bracket is a working too hard for such an amazing custom build. XO brother.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 3 2017, 07:46 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Feb 3 2017, 03:07 PM)

Rear trans mount when you have those beefy side mounts seems redundant but hey thats half the fun, right?

QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Feb 3 2017, 05:07 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 4 2017, 08:31 AM

QUOTE(Krieger @ Feb 3 2017, 05:45 PM)

Posted by: Krieger Feb 4 2017, 10:00 AM

So use the one you made at the rear of the trans and the new cross beam directly over the black bracket. How much support does the stock Boxster or 911 use to hold that trans up?

Posted by: Krieger Feb 4 2017, 10:12 AM

You might look at a Boxster spare tire. They are tall and very skinny. They are much newer than the collapsible old cracked space saver and are always inflated. I have one in my car if you'd like to try it on for size or have some measurements.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 5 2017, 11:53 AM

Before I can close up the firewall, I need to add some beading to the panel to prevent it from oil canning and to add some visual appeal. I'm just starting to play with designs.
The left side is, again, maybe to 'hot roddy' so I started thinking about maybe trying to make it look more factory-ish. The lines on the right side are just to give me an idea of how that width would look.

Out comes the trusty laser level (note the professional stabilizing mount! ). I figured I'd start by projecting the shapes on the upper firewall onto the lower area. It's kinda neat that, if I do this, I'll have a nice "V" on the panel - a nod to the LS3!

And, in typical "I didn't really think this through" fashion, since I already bent the flanges, I can't fit this already done-and-fit lower firewall into the bead roller. I'll be making another...

Remember: Pants first, THEN shoes.


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 5 2017, 12:10 PM

I like the left personally...

T

Posted by: Dion Feb 5 2017, 12:15 PM

I'd go with the left side version as well. Otherwise project looks great as usual.

Posted by: tomeric914 Feb 5 2017, 01:42 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 5 2017, 01:10 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 5 2017, 06:39 PM

A good buddy of mine brought his new drone (DJI Mavic) over to see how it would behave inside a metal building.
I'll post the "Shop Tour" video in a bit but for now, here's my new favorite pic of my car!


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Posted by: matthepcat Feb 6 2017, 01:33 AM

^^ Super cool shot!^^

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 6 2017, 10:55 PM

It's a rare event that I get into the shop during the week but I'm feeling like I'll never make the 9/14 date with a "weekends only" approach.
It feels good to FINALLY be putting things back on this area of the car!

Tonight, it was the Tangerine Racing shock tower kit positioned and tacked in.

As well as setting the angles, I took the time to use a straight edge to align the bolt holes symmetrically from side to side. Again, something no one will likely notice but it's the sort of detail that I think adds up.


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Posted by: jd74914 Feb 7 2017, 08:58 AM

Nice! It's looking great! Symmetrical alignment is definitely one of those things that people notice when they're looking at the final product.

Just a question...do Boxster transmissions typically have a rear chassis mount? Putting a rear mount on more or less makes it a totally constrained stressed member in the car which will impart some forces into it as the chassis twists. If they weren't designed for that I just worry about some internal binding. Not sure if this is actually a real concern or not. I know stressed engines can be concerning because of slightly changing bearing and piston/cylinder clearances.

Posted by: Cracker Feb 7 2017, 09:09 AM

Yes. He is using the factory mount locations on the rear of the case...

Tony

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 09:58 AM)

Posted by: jd74914 Feb 7 2017, 09:30 AM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 7 2017, 10:09 AM)

Yes. He is using the factory mount locations on the rear of the case...

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 09:58 AM)

Just a question...do Boxster transmissions typically have a rear chassis mount?

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 7 2017, 10:16 AM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 07:30 AM)

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 7 2017, 10:09 AM)

Yes. He is using the factory mount locations on the rear of the case...

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 09:58 AM)

Just a question...do Boxster transmissions typically have a rear chassis mount?

Oh OK. I knew the mufflers mounted there but didn't know it was also a chassis pickup.

Posted by: Amenson Feb 7 2017, 11:15 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 7 2017, 11:16 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 7 2017, 11:30 AM

QUOTE(Amenson @ Feb 7 2017, 09:15 AM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 7 2017, 11:16 AM)

Why do I love this forum? Because people ask questions and I get to learn stuff!

jd74914 asked a question and I figured I'd better check. Turns out that, near as I can tell, that rear set of pick ups is only a muffler mount. That doesn't preclude it from being leveraged as something else but I think I'll ask around a bit before finalizing on how/if to do this rear mount.
Good thing I'm about the journey, not the destination!

Given your incredible eye for detail and the skill/equipment to implement, it may be time to ditch the Renegade transmission mount and it's drawbacks and make something without compromises...and probably prettier!

Cheers,
Scott

Posted by: jd74914 Feb 7 2017, 12:23 PM

QUOTE(Amenson @ Feb 7 2017, 12:15 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 7 2017, 11:16 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 7 2017, 01:44 PM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 7 2017, 10:23 AM)

Posted by: 914forme Feb 7 2017, 02:59 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 6 2017, 11:55 PM)

It's a rare event that I get into the shop during the week but I'm feeling like I'll never make the 9/14 date with a "weekends only" approach.
It feels good to FINALLY be putting things back on this area of the car!

Tonight, it was the Tangerine Racing shock tower kit positioned and tacked in.

As well as setting the angles, I took the time to use a straight edge to align the bolt holes symmetrically from side to side. Again, something no one will likely notice but it's the sort of detail that I think adds up.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 7 2017, 03:12 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Feb 7 2017, 12:59 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 6 2017, 11:55 PM)

It's a rare event that I get into the shop during the week but I'm feeling like I'll never make the 9/14 date with a "weekends only" approach.
It feels good to FINALLY be putting things back on this area of the car!

Tonight, it was the Tangerine Racing shock tower kit positioned and tacked in.

As well as setting the angles, I took the time to use a straight edge to align the bolt holes symmetrically from side to side. Again, something no one will likely notice but it's the sort of detail that I think adds up.

Man them are short, I guess you plan on stowing the targa top in the trunk. Aligning the bolt holes is a nice touch. Oh and watch the top of the shock mounts for binding, if using aftermarket hats you might need add a spacer. The stock hats fit perfectly.

Now remove the rear suspension consoles and move the pickup points.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 8 2017, 01:02 PM

Playing with the next iteration design for what I've come to refer to as the "console plates".
I may cut this design and see how I like it in real life. The trunk stiffening panel started out too hot-roddy, and while I like this new design (top pic) more than the earlier version (bottom pic), this may be a bit too art deco-y.

I'm planning to run no door panels and the early doors have a nice arch element that I'm trying to echo in the plates. "Trying" being the operative word...

This is likely throw away since I won't really know the dimensions I want until I get the seats and shifter mounted. But I enjoy the process and I'll have a better idea of what I want once I get to that point.


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Posted by: Andyrew Feb 8 2017, 01:11 PM

I like the pink version

Posted by: Racer Chris Feb 8 2017, 02:28 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Feb 7 2017, 04:59 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 8 2017, 07:49 PM

What's with everyone giving me a hard time about "short"?
I will admit to rethinking the short vs. tall rear shock tower kit. I was going short so I could store the top. Do I really need to store the top?

I know, I'll make my own collapsible top! Sorta like the fold-able early 911 Targa roof. That'd be cool... I've actually been thinking about this for a while as storing the stock top forces a number of design constraints that limit what I'd like to do.
So, a folding top it is. I have an initial design in mind, too.

In the meantime, I've (again) changed the console plate design. V3 has separate front and rear sections. This will allow me to have a narrow(er) rear section between the seats and a wider front area for the shifter, etc. Varying widths open the door to some other, more interesting design elements, too.

Here's the front section. The rear section will bolt on to the end. I like this approach better. Feels like I'm getting close.


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Posted by: Curbandgutter Feb 9 2017, 09:09 AM

That's the direction I'm going with regarding the collapsible roof. I have no choice. I need to get a hold of the 911 collapsible roof and see how we can adapt to work with the 914 seals. Chris if you are compromising your suspension set up to get the roof to store in the back I say don't compromise. Make your suspension to your liking and then make the roof work later. It makes it more interesting. Keep up the excellent work.

Posted by: Cracker Feb 9 2017, 09:32 AM

it looks to be ok but just design the interior bits with: elbows, shifting and clearance in mind. I have my battery mounted against the firewall there so you are most likely ok with the new console design. looks good.

T

Posted by: jd74914 Feb 9 2017, 10:26 AM

You could also relocate the damper mounts lower on the trailing arms add a little travel. It'll change the motion ratio slightly, but also let you go with the shorter tower kit and fit a solid targa top in the trunk. It is a bit of work since the mounts are a pretty integral part of the trailing arm. I'm thinking of going that route just because I really want to be able to keep the stock top in the trunk.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 9 2017, 11:27 AM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 9 2017, 08:26 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 10 2017, 05:51 PM

Hmmm... Not sure I like it now that I see it against the door. I'm going to update it to better reflect those shapes. Maybe scale it down a bit, too.

I think I'll name this car "It".

Short for "iterations"


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Posted by: 914forme Feb 10 2017, 07:33 PM

metal roof solves your issue

Posted by: AZBanks Feb 10 2017, 09:00 PM

The door shapes aren't that pleasing to the eye. Maybe you should make a panel for the door that matches your console piece.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 12 2017, 12:25 PM

I can't finalize the console plates until I get the floor in, the new tunnel installed and the seats mounted. So this weekend was focused on that.

Old tunnel out. Here's a rough fab of a plate to help distribute the loads from the tunnel tubes.

Boring, I know.


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 12 2017, 12:32 PM

Cool. Are you dropping the floor anywhere?

T

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 12 2017, 05:55 PM

My seat has a car around it! First time in over a year. It's just mocked in to help me get an idea of how much room I have (and where I have it) for the various things I need to get from the front to the rear:
- water lines
- brake line
- hydraulic clutch line
- electrical
- shifter cables

And I'm planning not to run the water lines under the car.

A friend stopped buy and I explained what I was trying to do. He looked at me for a long moment and said:

"Have you considered wireless cooling?"

He's a real funny guy.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 12 2017, 05:58 PM

I love it when a plan comes together. How's this for a nice fit?

I'll claim this was all carefully calculated in my design specs... NOT.
Totally unplanned but come on, what are the odds?

I set the seat in place and noticed just how well my roadster cage hoop works with the stock seat. Too bad I'm not using them! Ah well.




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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 12 2017, 06:02 PM

delete

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 12 2017, 06:07 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 12 2017, 10:32 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 13 2017, 09:15 PM

To quote David Bowie: "Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes..."
I think this is the winning version. I like the trellis look more than the holes.


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 13 2017, 09:29 PM

I like the holes better...honestly. Its your build though...

PS: The REASON I like the dimple die holes is it looks more legit to me - the other looks like a plasma cutter made it - the holes look like it was crafted - more or less. I am being serious.

T

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 14 2017, 05:40 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 13 2017, 07:29 PM)

I like the holes better...honestly. Its your build though...

PS: The REASON I like the dimple die holes is it looks more legit to me - the other looks like a plasma cutter made it - the holes look like it was crafted - more or less. I am being serious.

T

Posted by: Curbandgutter Feb 14 2017, 05:43 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 13 2017, 07:29 PM)

I like the holes better...honestly. Its your build though...

PS: The REASON I like the dimple die holes is it looks more legit to me - the other looks like a plasma cutter made it - the holes look like it was crafted - more or less. I am being serious.

T

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 14 2017, 06:09 PM

I like 'em both. Which one fits the 914 you're creating? Which one are you most proud of?

Posted by: Rand Feb 14 2017, 06:11 PM

The more I look at your cad/plasma work the more I want to say keep it simple and light. I like minimalist on a build like this. I'd love to see you keep as much metal as possible OUT of the design without sacrificing strength. Clean and functional before intricate extras that add weight without contributing to strength.

Not criticizing, just thinking out loud. Adding a pic below... Outside the green makes structural strength sense. Inside the red box, I'm not sure it adds anything except visual noise?

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 14 2017, 07:05 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Feb 14 2017, 04:11 PM)

The more I look at your cad/plasma work the more I want to say keep it simple and light. I like minimalist on a build like this. I'd love to see you keep as much metal as possible OUT of the design without sacrificing strength. Clean and functional before intricate extras that add weight without contributing to strength.

Not criticizing, just thinking out loud. Adding a pic below... Outside the green makes structural strength sense. Inside the red box, I'm not sure it adds anything except visual noise?

Posted by: Rand Feb 14 2017, 07:08 PM

Just keep doing what you're doing and make it your own. Thanks for entertaining feedback, but do your thing. We are all salivating at your amazing work.

Posted by: Cracker Feb 14 2017, 07:33 PM

Anything you come up with, and eventually settle on, is going to be killer. Hey, I am just a guy...and that means multiple-holes in the rear catches my eye *da truth*!

T

Posted by: Rand Feb 14 2017, 07:52 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 14 2017, 05:33 PM)

Hey, I am just a guy...and that means multiple-holes in the rear catches my eye *da truth*!

T

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 14 2017, 08:01 PM

AAAAAAAnnd... into the gutter we go...

Posted by: Rand Feb 14 2017, 08:25 PM

No, please don't. If your mind goes there, I understand. But let's keep this clean and back on track to Chris' build.

Posted by: Cracker Feb 14 2017, 08:30 PM

Hey...I was just trying to get Rudy to show up!

T

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 14 2017, 09:01 PM)

AAAAAAAnnd... into the curbandgutter we go...

Posted by: Rand Feb 14 2017, 08:33 PM

Hah. He'll be here. If there's a good gutter to run into, it's Curb's.

Posted by: Curbandgutter Feb 16 2017, 11:30 AM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 14 2017, 06:30 PM)

Hey...I was just trying to get Rudy to show up!

T

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 14 2017, 09:01 PM)

AAAAAAAnnd... into the curbandgutter we go...

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 17 2017, 03:31 PM

Zoiks, not sure what that was about but let's get back on track, shall we?

I need to make some progress on final fitment items like the seats and pedals. I took today off work to start on the tunnel mods. The base of the tunnel will essentially mimic the stock one. I'm using 1" x 1.5" tube set on edge. I'll drill holes where the original tunnel spot welded to the floor and plug weld these runners in place.

Started laying things out and will be working on how I'll deal with that small step up in the floor. And there are places where I want to shape these runners to the contours that are stamped in the floor.

So, here we go.

Oh, and the pedals are just sitting there to give me a basic idea of how they may fit, what I'll need to do to brace the floor under them, etc.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 17 2017, 03:33 PM

Measure, slice a suitable chunk from the tube, bend it and weld the three sides. Dress the weld and... one side done.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 17 2017, 03:48 PM

And here's another example of why I'm never going to make money doing this:
I needed a piece that angled up from the driver's side runner up to the load plate.
This required a compound set of cuts - one to get the "up" angle, the other to get the "over" angle. Then, because of the "up" I needed to get the length right so the top of this piece intersects with the runner at the right spot, Then it's time to trim the lower edge so it ends up at 1.5" tall at the angle so it mates with the front of the runner...

And I must say, it's dead nuts on!
I'm pretty impressed with myself. Yes, I still have to trim the other end but that's a single angle so no worries there.

That said:
What you aren't seeing are the other 3 attempts/fails and 2 hours of "practice" that preceded the final piece.

It seems like every piece I make has something "special" about it that requires me to learn something new or use a rarely used skill. Don't get me wrong, I still love it. I just hate wasting the materials, consumables and time.

I guess that's "experience", huh?


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Posted by: Racer Chris Feb 17 2017, 04:08 PM

That's nothing.
You should see the challenges my dad faces every day with his Ryan restoration.
In many cases he doesn't have a sample, and the blueprints don't match pictures of original parts.
His fuel tank took more than 250 hours of labor, as well as an extra sheet of aluminum.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 17 2017, 06:31 PM

Mocking in some other parts, just to get a feel for where things may sorta go. It's starting to look like a place I'd want to spend some time!

If only we could build with cardboard...


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 17 2017, 06:35 PM

I confess that I succumbed to peer pressure. I just couldn't take people using the term "short" in relation to any of my stuff.
Tangerine Racing came through with an instant shipment of just the tall (long?) tower pieces! Thanks Chris!
The plan is to get them fully installed tomorrow.



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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 17 2017, 06:41 PM

Teaser shot. Where, oh where, do you suppose the exhaust is going to exit the car?

Out the top of the trunk, 918 style?

Through the rear panel?

Or do I have something else in mind...?

(If I've shared my plan with you, don't spill the beans, please.)


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 17 2017, 06:47 PM

Peanut gallery: I hate to have to tell you Chris but your exhaust manifolds are wrong side up...

T

Posted by: mgp4591 Feb 18 2017, 05:00 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 17 2017, 05:41 PM)

Teaser shot. Where, oh where, do you suppose the exhaust is going to exit the car?

Out the top of the trunk, 918 style?

Through the rear panel?

Or do I have something else in mind...?

(If I've shared my plan with you, don't spill the beans, please.)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 18 2017, 07:09 PM

Well... I FINALLY completed what I said I'd complete in the time I said I'd complete it.
The goal was to get the shock tower tops in. And they are in !
Here're a couple action photos of the event.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 18 2017, 07:11 PM

And, not only are the towers in, so are the top cross bar load pads and the cross bar!
Major milestone.


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 18 2017, 07:23 PM

Now I am really impressed - you can weld and take pictures at the same time!

Looks great Chris!

T

Posted by: Andyrew Feb 18 2017, 09:48 PM

Tig! Some high dollar welding there!

I really hope you build your exhaust similar to a 918 I love that look in a mid engine car.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 10:57 AM

When words collide:

I hope I don't offend the fabrication gods by running one of my MIG welds up against one of Martin's TIGs. Maybe not quite as pretty, but I am getting better.

This is the lower fire wall crossbar and was one of those "out of position" welds - laying on the ground, one arm wrapped around the long, triggering with my left hand and guiding the tip with my right, arms all akimbo... but I'll take it.

As I improve, I keep turning the MIG up to hotter settings and moving faster. This seems to give me the best results.

Anyone else having this experience? Maybe I just started way too cold...?


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Posted by: Andyrew Feb 20 2017, 05:49 PM

^ I love welding clean thick steel Nothing more satisfying than making dimes with a mig.


Judging by your heat marks your welds should have good penetration, at least that horizontal piece. You didnt make great penetration on your vertical weld to the firewall.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 06:35 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Feb 20 2017, 03:49 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 06:46 PM

On to floor fitment. With the custom lower fire wall comes mods to the rear floor panel. Long story short, the floor is about 1" too long in just the perfect way so the flat that needs to spot weld to the bottom of the lower cross bar juuuuuuust misses.

What to do? There were probably a few ways to deal with this but here's what I did.

This pic shows all the gaps I have to address. The lines outline where the cross bar lands on the stock floor and you can see that the only contacts are at that raised section at the bottom of the pic. The rear of the bar just barely kisses that raised edge most of the way across but not nearly enough to be secure.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 06:48 PM

I opted to move the lip in by about 1". So a bit of guestimeasuring and cut the thing into pieces.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 06:50 PM

Remove that middle piece, slide the lip section into place and
A bit of weld dressing and Phase 1, passenger side is done.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 06:56 PM

Then it got fun. Thankfully, I'm learning patience as I get older. I knew I need to preserve the outer most edge at each outside corner as that material is needed when it comes time to spot weld the jacking donut triangles in place.

But I have that odd gap at the left edge of the piece I moved forward. (see above pic) So, I figured I could "reverse" that corner that's just to the left of the gap and tie it to the moved section. It's hard to explain but I ended up doing some hammer and dolly work to pound that corner back into itself and out the other side.
Then I welded the seam... Pics probably make it easier.

Top pic is the stock shapes (driver side)
Bottom pic is what I now have (passenger side)
(Pardon the wet primer...)


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Posted by: 914forme Feb 20 2017, 06:58 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 17 2017, 07:35 PM)

I confess that I succumbed to peer pressure. I just couldn't take people using the term "short" in relation to any of my stuff.
Tangerine Racing came through with an instant shipment of just the tall (long?) tower pieces! Thanks Chris!
The plan is to get them fully installed tomorrow.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 07:02 PM

It now fits nicely, with plenty of contact with the lower cross bar.
And that section at the top of the pic that curves out, away from the crossbar is where the jack donut triangle edge sits, as seen-ish in the 2nd pic.

I'll add a bar that triangulates from the cross bar back to the long to support that "curving out section" so I have a robust jacking point.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 07:06 PM

I also got the lower fire wall uprights tacked in. Once they are final welded and I mod the driver's side of the floor pan, the floor goes in.
Then it's on to the seats. Once that's done, I'll move to the tunnel and pedals.

Man, this is taking a long time.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 20 2017, 07:22 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Feb 20 2017, 04:58 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 17 2017, 07:35 PM)

I confess that I succumbed to peer pressure. I just couldn't take people using the term "short" in relation to any of my stuff.
Tangerine Racing came through with an instant shipment of just the tall (long?) tower pieces! Thanks Chris!
The plan is to get them fully installed tomorrow.

Look really good Now do a hard top conversion.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 23 2017, 02:32 PM

As one of my car buddies recently reminded me:
There's no kill like overkill!

So I treated the Tangerine Racing towers to an upgrade to ARP stainless fasteners.
I mean, doesn't Foley's stuff deserve the top shelf treatment?

I'm going to anodize the top piece, too. Black, maybe gold, still TBD on color.

And that's the spacer that was fabbed to address the interference that would otherwise occur between the shock top hat and the bottom of the tower extension.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 23 2017, 02:36 PM

And here's the benefit to all that work that went into moving the drive line forward:
It's kinda hard to tell in the pics, but I have a reasonably relaxed CV angle.

This should address any concerns about CV / CV boot failure.

Maybe someone (Tony?) could post a pic of what this looks like with the trans in the "stock" location?

And yes, there is a spacer that goes between the inner CV and the output drive. I just didn't have long enough bolts...


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 23 2017, 02:46 PM

You are welcome Chris (LOL)! That's where it needs to be - great job!

I am still not sure it will work - I need to test it when out there this summer...

T

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 23 2017, 02:51 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 23 2017, 12:46 PM)

You are welcome Chris (LOL)! That's where it needs to be - great job!

I am still not sure it will work - I need to test it when out there this summer...

T

Posted by: Cracker Feb 23 2017, 04:57 PM

I tried but do not have a good picture of my set-up Chris...the hassle of moving the drive-line forward is a HUGE improvement over what I am dealing with!

Tony

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 23 2017, 05:59 PM

OK, so not too scientific but here's an approximation of the angle the axle would otherwise have been.
Looks like I reduced it about 1/2, maybe?


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 23 2017, 06:11 PM

I would defiantly say that is fairly accurate - that is a big deal.

T

Posted by: andys Feb 23 2017, 09:45 PM

Here's a photo of my VSS and reluctor. It's the GM VSS, but thought I'd share anyway. The reluctor clears the Porsche 911 CV. I'm using the Audi VSS (on the 01e trans) to run my speedo.

Andys



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Posted by: Cracker Feb 23 2017, 09:49 PM

Andy (howdy!)...did you mean to post this in Rudy's thread/build?

Tony

QUOTE(andys @ Feb 23 2017, 10:45 PM)

Posted by: Curbandgutter Feb 23 2017, 11:09 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 23 2017, 03:59 PM)

Posted by: Curbandgutter Feb 23 2017, 11:09 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 23 2017, 07:49 PM)

Andy (howdy!)...did you mean to post this in Rudy's thread/build?

Tony

QUOTE(andys @ Feb 23 2017, 10:45 PM)

Here's a photo of my VSS and reluctor. It's the GM VSS, but thought I'd share anyway. The reluctor clears the Porsche 911 CV. I'm using the Audi VSS (on the 01e trans) to run my speedo.

Andys

Posted by: andys Feb 24 2017, 09:15 AM

QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Feb 23 2017, 09:09 PM)

QUOTE(Cracker @ Feb 23 2017, 07:49 PM)

Andy (howdy!)...did you mean to post this in Rudy's thread/build?

Tony

QUOTE(andys @ Feb 23 2017, 10:45 PM)

Here's a photo of my VSS and reluctor. It's the GM VSS, but thought I'd share anyway. The reluctor clears the Porsche 911 CV. I'm using the Audi VSS (on the 01e trans) to run my speedo.

Andys

I think so Regardless thanks Andy.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 24 2017, 07:16 PM

For those who may be interested, here's a better review of the rear floor mod.
1. Cut and move that rear section forward.
2. The gap I need to close
3. Start hammering the curve back into itself
4. Overall shape is where I want it so I'm calling it finished and ready to weld!

Next, I mock it back into the car and trim the edge to match the jacking donut triangle.

This floor is all but ready to go in!


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Posted by: Curbandgutter Feb 25 2017, 09:33 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 24 2017, 05:16 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 27 2017, 08:43 AM

I got the rear suspension mocked in and decided to trim the spacers a bit.
How's this for old school? Neat old, belt driven South Bend lathe. Works like a champ!


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 27 2017, 09:21 AM

The floor is in. Well, all but a few inches of the main joint. Then I need to dress the welds. I'm going to run the stock cross bar because:
1. I have it
2. It makes is simple to locate the seat mounts vs a custom bar
3. The top of it all but lines up with the height of the 1.5x1" tubing that will make up the base of the tunnel.
Note that the cross bar is just sitting there, helping me think through the tunnel design.


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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 27 2017, 09:22 AM

So much to do, so little time.

Posted by: jd74914 Feb 27 2017, 10:03 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 27 2017, 09:43 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 27 2017, 08:19 PM

It's official, I'm a slave to fashion...
Upon reflection, I didn't like the look of the ARP 12 point fasteners. Too busy. And hex head is too pedestrian. (IMO).
So I splurged and went with titanium button heads. Pricey little buggers but they do look the business!
Looks properly tidy. Much better all around.

As I said, Foley's stuff deserves the top shelf treatment so I figured I'd better just go all the way.

Yes, I'm aware that some of what I spend my time and money on is silly. My wife beat you to that thought...!


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Posted by: Cracker Feb 27 2017, 08:30 PM

You are just now "coming out" as a slave to fashion...like we did not already know that! I like the new bolts much better. I might copy them...

T

Posted by: mobymutt Feb 27 2017, 08:32 PM

Wow, that is pretty!

Just be careful with galling on Ti fasteners. If you didn't already use it, I suggest some sort of anti-seize.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 27 2017, 10:44 PM

QUOTE(mobymutt @ Feb 27 2017, 06:32 PM)

Posted by: jd74914 Feb 28 2017, 06:41 AM

Sweet cap screws!

If you're looking for an antisieze, DuPont Krytox works really well and from what I remember it's not too expensive. We specified and used it at a place I worked for pretty much all stainless, inconel, and titanium fittings. It was actually pretty much the only antisieze which always worked.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 28 2017, 07:04 AM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 28 2017, 04:41 AM)

Posted by: jd74914 Feb 28 2017, 07:12 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 28 2017, 08:04 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 28 2017, 11:59 AM

My seats shipped today! These are them just before being boxed.
GTS Classics Le Mans with their oval headrests.

Pretty.
Damn!
Cool!

Well, actually, they have heaters so maybe it's: Pretty damn hot!

Either way:

Scheduled to arrive this Friday.


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Posted by: JmuRiz Feb 28 2017, 01:35 PM

Snazzy seats for a wild build!

I wish I could add those belt passages on my old Koenig seats...not sure how.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 28 2017, 01:47 PM

.....OK.....seriously? Those are just stupid nice. Man I wish I had a set of those for my car. But, alas, it is not to be. I have to try to keep it appearing as stock as possible - seats like that would be a huge give-away. But

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 28 2017, 02:00 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 28 2017, 11:47 AM)

.....OK.....seriously? Those are just stupid nice. Man I wish I had a set of those for my car. But, alas, it is not to be. I have to try to keep it appearing as stock as possible - seats like that would be a huge give-away. But

Posted by: Curbandgutter Feb 28 2017, 02:11 PM

Those are the nicest seats out there right now. Those grommets are incredible. Those seats are perfect size too.

Posted by: mgp4591 Feb 28 2017, 08:12 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 28 2017, 06:04 AM)

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 28 2017, 04:41 AM)

Sweet cap screws!

If you're looking for an antisieze, DuPont Krytox works really well and from what I remember it's not too expensive. We specified and used it at a place I worked for pretty much all stainless, inconel, and titanium fittings. It was actually pretty much the only antisieze which always worked.

Thanks for the recommendation. Would you happen to know a product #? There seem to be a bunch of "grease" type products that come up when I do a search. Nothing specifically "antiseize".

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 2 2017, 08:16 PM

OK, this may turn out to be a(nother) waste of time but boy, it sure would be great if I could run the intake in the "regular", not flipped, orientation. I'd gain all my trunk space back.

This is a pic of the Palatov DP2 set up. I don't (yet) see why I couldn't do something like this. I create a suitable bulge in the upper firewall and reshape the lower firewall behind the passenger seat to accommodate the air cleaner... Yes, it'd be outside the passenger compartment.

I'll look into it and let you know...


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Posted by: Cracker Mar 2 2017, 08:33 PM

A "suitable bulge" to accommodate that intake would be a "not so subtle bulge" - try it but I would bet you will find it to be way to deep. My intake is less than an inch off the firewall (and already sits 1.5" further back than yours)!

IDEA: What about making an "integrated" intake in the firewall? I thought of this when I was brainstorming during my build but it was well beyond my ability to pull it off. Piece of cake for you...

Tony

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 3 2017, 06:29 AM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Mar 2 2017, 06:33 PM)

Posted by: Cracker Mar 3 2017, 06:38 AM

Chris: The route your race-car is going...you would be a fool NOT to go with the Borla ITB's - the price has dropped in half (btw)! Best of both worlds...you keep your firewall and trunk space!

Tony

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 3 2017, 07:32 AM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Mar 3 2017, 04:38 AM)

Chris: The route your race-car is going...you would be a fool NOT to go with the Borla ITB's - the price has dropped in half (btw)! Best of both worlds...you keep your firewall and trunk space!

Tony

Posted by: Cracker Mar 3 2017, 07:34 AM

I have a way with words...if I had your money, I wouldn't think twice!

T

Posted by: BillC Mar 3 2017, 07:37 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 2 2017, 09:16 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 3 2017, 09:19 AM

QUOTE(BillC @ Mar 3 2017, 05:37 AM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 2 2017, 09:16 PM)

OK, this may turn out to be a(nother) waste of time but boy, it sure would be great if I could run the intake in the "regular", not flipped, orientation. I'd gain all my trunk space back.

This is a pic of the Palatov DP2 set up. I don't (yet) see why I couldn't do something like this. I create a suitable bulge in the upper firewall and reshape the lower firewall behind the passenger seat to accommodate the air cleaner... Yes, it'd be outside the passenger compartment.

I'll look into it and let you know...

Rather than adding a bulge to your firewall, maybe you can use a cobra elbow instead. Here's a pic that I found on the internet:


It allows a very short turn radius without significantly affecting flow rate.

Posted by: andys Mar 3 2017, 10:09 AM

I bumped my firewall out a small amount (1 1/4"), and it's goes un-noticed. The stock backpad still fits, though it does have a filler spacer. Point is, that it may be doable to run the intake forward and it's just a matter of how much do you want to bump out the firewall.

Andys

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 3 2017, 10:45 AM

QUOTE(andys @ Mar 3 2017, 08:09 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 10 2017, 06:30 PM

This build is on hold while I get the '74 road worthy. Hopefully, that'll happen within the next couple weeks. Until then, it's "resting" in the garage.

And apparently, my wife thinks it makes a fine winter storage shelf for the patio furniture cushions.

Bella, my shop helper, shows great taste in selecting a Porsche perch for her afternoon nap.

Oh, and you can see that I've finally signed my sponsorship deal and have begun working on my race livery...


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Posted by: Krieger Mar 10 2017, 06:50 PM

Nice! Did you cover a rust hole with that?

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 15 2017, 11:57 AM

The LS car seems to be jealous. I was working on the '74 and learned that when a wire wheel gets hold of your work glove, it can quickly get scary.

I was cleaning off a small part with the wheel spinning such that it wouldn't grab the part. Well, there was a small lip that, in spite of my best intentions, the wheel got hold of.

A nano second later, the wheel pulls the part (and my hand) into the angle grinder. It ripped the glove and wrapped the cuff around the wire wheel, pulling the wheel right into my wrist. With the speed and force this all happened, I thought I was in serious trouble...

Thankfully, the wheel jammed up with the glove and stopped spinning pretty quickly.
You can see where I "got wheeled" and where the guard sliced into the base of my thumb.

In the end, nothing but a good scare - but certainly a reminder:

We can never be too careful...


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Posted by: Cracker Mar 15 2017, 12:08 PM

Chris - I am glad it wasn't worse but sorry nonetheless. Gotta be extra, extra careful using these tools, eh?

Tony

Posted by: RobW Mar 15 2017, 12:17 PM

Lucky, lucky, lucky.... Glad it was just a scratch!

Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 15 2017, 01:25 PM

Its only a flesh wound...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAW6D21ICdg

Posted by: Dion Mar 15 2017, 03:45 PM

QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Mar 15 2017, 11:25 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 15 2017, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the kind word (and the ) Yep, I'm all good. So, let's get back to the build. This time, some non life-threatening stuff:

I pulled the trigger on my wiring today!

1. InfinityBox 20 circuit kit with:
- inReserve battery management system
- inLink (for security/imobilizing but I plan to run a "no key" solution. Just a push button start/stop button)

I'm REALLY impressed with the support. Jay has no end of patience and spent time explaining everything in detail. He even talked me out of buying some of the things I was considering. At this point, I'd recommend them, especially for builds like this one where I need ("need", ha!) to replace all the wiring.
http://infinitybox.com/

2. Current Performance LS3 stand-alone engine harness

It should all be here in a couple weeks. And won't this part be a ton of fun...

(Heck, I don't even know where I'm locating the battery!)

Posted by: Cracker Mar 15 2017, 04:48 PM

Cart ahead of horsey??? Conversations and performance are different - ever hear of salespeople?

Tony

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 15 2017, 06:25 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 15 2017, 04:56 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Mar 15 2017, 03:48 PM)

Cart ahead of horsey??? Conversations and performance are different - ever hear of salespeople?

Tony

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 15 2017, 06:25 PM)

At this point, I'd recommend them, especially for builds like this one where I need ("need", ha!) to replace all the wiring.

Posted by: Cracker Mar 15 2017, 04:58 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 15 2017, 06:56 PM)

Hey, I WAS a salesperson. Hence the key phrase in my post: "At this point...".

Posted by: Amenson Mar 15 2017, 06:06 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 15 2017, 01:57 PM)

Posted by: mbseto Mar 16 2017, 03:09 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 15 2017, 01:57 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 16 2017, 03:31 PM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Mar 16 2017, 02:09 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 15 2017, 01:57 PM)

A nano second later, the wheel pulls the part (and my hand) into the angle grinder. It ripped the glove and wrapped the cuff around the wire wheel, pulling the wheel right into my wrist. With the speed and force this all happened, I thought I was in serious trouble...

In the interest of scientific research: leather or cotton glove?

Oh, and glad you still have all your fingers!

Posted by: jd74914 Mar 16 2017, 03:47 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 15 2017, 12:57 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 13 2017, 08:34 AM

Holy moley, it's been almost a month... And what I have to post isn't too exciting but I guess it is something, so...

The trailing arms haven't even been installed and I'm changing things already. I needed to rebuild the arms in my '74 so decided to pull the (new) Elephant Racing rubber bushings out of these arms, use them in the '74 and upgrade these to Elephant Racing PolyBronze.
The pivot shaft just floaty floats in there. You can spin it with two fingers, slide it out...
Zerk fittings are added as these needed greasing every 3k mikes or so. And yes, they change the ride dynamic.

So, there you go. Another month down but virtually no progress. I'm getting why it's called the Build Off "Challenge"!


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Posted by: tygaboy Apr 27 2017, 05:09 PM

Again, more time passes and not much of an update... With the shoulder injury preventing me working on the car, about all I can do is buy more goodies. I'm still in need of the torsion bars but this should be enough suspension porn to get me through my recovery period:
- Rebuilt/powder coated a-arms with Elephant Racing spherical bearings
- Elephant Racing bladed sway bar
Their stuff is so pretty I almost don't want to put it on the car!


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Posted by: Curbandgutter Apr 27 2017, 06:30 PM

Hey it's nice to see some progress. Love the Elephant Racing suspension. They have the best web site don't they. That thing should ride really nice. No clunks or squeaks. On another note, Zero progress on my build for this month. I went on vacation and after I came back it's been crazy busy. I've been working all weekends. Anyway nice to see some progress....even if it's just buying stuff.

Posted by: Andyrew Apr 27 2017, 06:36 PM

I must say the buying stuff is the most instantly satisfying part.. When you open that box and see those shiny (or dirty) parts!

Posted by: tygaboy Jun 10 2017, 07:45 AM

3 months and no progress. Injury and other priorities... Enough of that! I'm back!

Here we go... I know that for some of you, this wiring stuff is nothing. That ain't the case for me.

For the most part, I've avoided thinking about this part of the build. Specifically because I have virtually no skills/experience with wiring. So, it's a bit intimidating looking at a two medium sized boxes full of the stuff.

For the main harness, I went with the Infinity Box 20 circuit with a couple upgrades. Current Performance supplied the stand-alone LS3 harness (set up for a reversed intake) and DBW throttle pedal.

With the arrival of this stuff, I have almost nothing left to purchase. What will I use for an excuse as to why this project isn't farther along? Oh yea, WCR prep!


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Posted by: cary Jun 10 2017, 07:53 AM

Good Morning,

In the box it looks pretty daunting. Once you lay it out on the floor it will get easier.
This is what we use at RS to put the wires where we want them. They come in both a large and small size.

https://www.amazon.com/iExcell-100Pcs-Black-Saddle-Holder/dp/B01GSXN1XA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1497102532&sr=8-3&keywords=zip+tie+holders

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 10 2017, 08:08 AM

QUOTE(cary @ Jun 10 2017, 06:53 AM)

Posted by: cary Jun 10 2017, 08:13 AM

Are the wires all labeled ?

Posted by: tygaboy Jun 10 2017, 08:14 AM

^^
Cary, Andrew - Thanks for the encouragement...

What time can you be here?

Posted by: tygaboy Jun 10 2017, 08:16 AM

QUOTE(cary @ Jun 10 2017, 07:13 AM)

Posted by: mb911 Jun 10 2017, 08:45 AM

Looking forward to see your progress the car is turning out very nice.

Posted by: Mueller Jun 10 2017, 08:53 AM

Nice stuff there, I looked at the Infinity Box products for my other car a few times. Had I only had 1 project car instead of 2 I might have pulled the trigger and bought it. Too bad about their name, they used to be iSiS , which I see they still have on a few products!

Posted by: Cracker Jun 10 2017, 09:27 AM

Well that looks familiar...the "40" has an iSiS system - still n the box - you will be a pro!

T

Posted by: 76-914 Jun 10 2017, 09:47 AM

w/ Andrew. The plywood layout is infinitely adjustable and cheap. But more important is the preservation of ones own sanity. Start with what's easy or apparent. Then move on to the more difficult items. Often you will find that daunting items reveal their secrets, bit by bit, when working on some of the simpler items. Lastly, you will quite often. Get used to it but don't let it defeat you. Sometimes the answers will come at 2:30 AM, sometimes they come from this board or another, but they will come to you if you have the tenacity. When the moment arrives that you power her up for the first time you will be shitting in your shoes and thrilled at the same time. "Onward thru the Fog", Oat Willie.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 2 2017, 04:44 PM

So it's been months since I worked on this project. WCR and yesterday's R Gruppe gathering have me back motivated. Plus, I've gotten (almost) caught up on various other commitments that have kept me from this effort. Anyway... back to it.

First, something totally unnecessary that will only distract, add complexity and additional time to the build... Sounds about right to me!

I've decided to vent the radiator through the fenders and NOT do a vent in the hood (at least for now) and I'd like to do something to help with the removal of hot air from under the fenders.

I just love the fender vents in the GT3 RS so I hung a crap glass flare on the front and started drawing. In the end, this will be added to the steel flares - again, this glass flare was just for idea mock up. I'm thinking an aluminum frame with mesh. Ideally, I'll relieve the opening in the fender so the frame sits flush with the fender.

This was totally free handed (like you can't tell!). I didn't measure anything so yes, the openings are all different heights. That'll get corrected in the final design.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 2 2017, 04:46 PM

Then it was back to what I really need to complete next: the chassis.
I'm getting closer to what I think will be the final design/position of the front hoop. I want to get it ahead of the door opening. This looks like it'll require relocating the front hood latch release but that's not too big a deal.


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Posted by: Matty900 Jul 3 2017, 01:13 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 2 2017, 03:44 PM)

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 3 2017, 02:55 PM

I like what you are doing. At one time I was thinking of adding the GT3 louvers on the tops of the fenders but I am going to evacuate the air through the hood. I know that the guys that run the air through the inner fenders have the gas tank heating up from the hot radiator air.

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 3 2017, 08:27 PM

So long as you duct the air from the radiator to the fenders there shouldnt be any reason why the fuel tank will heat up.

I like the idea of fender vents, I think the design needs some work unless your going for the mechanical look on the car. Cant quite think of a better design in my head though.... Maybe taper the bottom some more like the GT3?

Posted by: Rand Jul 3 2017, 09:53 PM

Just a personal opinion, but on a 914 I wouldn't want the fancy vents. The stealth factor is what makes a 914 supercar so cool. Venting out the inside fenderwells has been proven to work. Out the top of the lid can make more sense for downforce, but to me, stealthy is cool. Nothing as cool as a monster sleeper.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 4 2017, 07:20 AM

Andrew - Yep, the design needs refinement. As is usual for me, I need to see it, change it, try it, change it again. This is V1 so it's destined to be updated. From an overall look/feel, "mechanical" is actually something I'm after so I'm tickled that's how you saw it.

Rand - I am TOTALLY with you on wanting it to be stealthy. But I've always thought that once you add GT flares, 914s lose most, if not all their stealth. I was toying with moving the whole side of the car out 2" to fake a narrow body look and still have some tire to deal with the LS power. That's what I'd really like... maybe in the future.

So for this build, I'm going with a look that will be clearly identifiable as a "hot rod". That also opens up some other design options I'm looking to include.

Keep the cards and letters coming. In agreement with my approach or not, your input helps me clarify my thinking!

Posted by: Rand Jul 4 2017, 12:39 PM

One thing for sure is we all have opinions, but your workmanship is stellar and whatever you do is going to be amazing. Speaks for itself. Keep it going and always express yourself! I always look forward to seeing your work.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 4 2017, 06:00 PM

I'm finding that being away from the car for a couple months has me rethinking some of the stuff I thought was done. I've always had a niggling "I think that could look better..." about the rear shock tower. The top cross bar didn't feel well integrated to me. So I started playing around with how I might box things in. The red outlines where that piece will actually sit.
This design eliminates the "wings" in the stiffening panel and, to my eye, nicely cleans up that whole area.
Plus, it ties the long to the bar to the tower even more.


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Posted by: Rand Jul 4 2017, 06:14 PM

Get it driving. Then nail down the fancy details.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 4 2017, 09:59 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 4 2017, 05:14 PM)

Get it driving. Then nail down the fancy details.

Posted by: Cracker Jul 5 2017, 07:03 AM

With most projects that would be reasonable but not this one. Also, and perhaps most important, Chris enjoys the "creative strategizing" process more than the actual finishef product itself. Going slightly out on the limb here but I believe I know him well enough to wtite this about him. This project will take time...allot of time (and that is ok). Keep it up Chris, integrate all of these wild plans as you go - in the order you think best. I always (erll, almost always) enjoy the new posts!

Tony

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 4 2017, 08:14 PM)

Get it driving. Then nail down the fancy details.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 5 2017, 06:45 PM

Tony is mostly accurate - I'm about the journey, not the destination.
That said, I do want to get it on the road. It'll be interesting to see how well/not well I balance my propensity for neat new ideas with the boring "gotta do this" work.

Speaking of "gotta do" stuff, here's the final position of the front hoop. With the dash in place, it all but disappears, just like I want.

In the second pic, you can see how I plan to tie the hoop to the steering column support. To get the hoop forward to where I wanted it, I had to notch the steering support sheet metal. You can see my little paper template of the bracket I'll fab to reinforce the support. There will be one of them on each side.

Final pic is the bracket translated into the plasma software.

Oh, and best of all, as you can see, I don't need to relocate the front hood latch! One less thing to do!

Getting there with this chassis stuff...!


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Posted by: ConeDodger Jul 5 2017, 06:49 PM

Progress!

Posted by: Rand Jul 6 2017, 04:15 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 5 2017, 06:03 AM)

With most projects that would be reasonable but not this one. Also, and perhaps most important, Chris enjoys the "creative strategizing" process more than the actual finishef product itself. Going slightly out on the limb here but I believe I know him well enough to wtite this about him. This project will take time...allot of time (and that is ok). Keep it up Chris, integrate all of these wild plans as you go - in the order you think best. I always (erll, almost always) enjoy the new posts!

Tony

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 4 2017, 08:14 PM)

Get it driving. Then nail down the fancy details.

Posted by: Cracker Jul 6 2017, 04:20 PM

Yikes! Just seeing my post for the first time from the other day...I typed that out from my phone in transit back to the East coast (as a passenger!). Spell checker should've kicked in...

T

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 6 2017, 06:15 PM)

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 5 2017, 06:03 AM)

With most projects that would be reasonable but not this one. Also, and perhaps most important, Chris enjoys the "creative strategizing" process more than the actual finishef product itself. Going slightly out on the limb here but I believe I know him well enough to wtite this about him. This project will take time...allot of time (and that is ok). Keep it up Chris, integrate all of these wild plans as you go - in the order you think best. I always (erll, almost always) enjoy the new posts!

Tony

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 4 2017, 08:14 PM)

Get it driving. Then nail down the fancy details.

For sure Tony. I was only poking fun. Seeing Chris' artwork is a joy and we will all love seeing it.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 6 2017, 05:17 PM

Man, it feels sooooooo nice to be back working on this! Such fun...

Got the front hoop/steering support brackets cut and mocked in. Should work just fine. I'm still kicking around how I might tie this hoop in to the front of the car. Whatever I decide, I hope to get the hoop fully welded in this weekend.


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Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 7 2017, 03:06 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 4 2017, 05:00 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 7 2017, 04:31 PM

Rudy - Thanks for the input. I'd planned to weld all the seams of the suspension tower boxing so no worries there.
On that lower bar: I'm rethinking my induction/exhaust systems and am close to a decision that will require I redo that entire back panel... At this point, I won't be finalizing anything other than the top cross bar and the aforementioned boxing.
Once I do start back on that area, let me know what you think of what I come up with? Thanks again!

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 7 2017, 04:34 PM

I decided to take today off and was able to get the front hoop mostly done. My buddy Martin needed some welding done on his car so he TIG'd for me while I MIG'd for him. (I think I got the better of THAT deal!)
How f-ing beautiful is his work?


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 7 2017, 04:39 PM

And it turned out GREAT! Just what I wanted: The rear edge of the hoop sits even with the front of the door opening and it all but disappears under the dash. Exactly as I wanted it. Very happy with this result.

And seeing it all in place has me thinking I'll trim off most all of the lower part of those brackets that tie the hoop to the steering column support. Looks a little scary as is.


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Posted by: Cracker Jul 7 2017, 04:44 PM

Bravo!

T

Posted by: Rand Jul 7 2017, 04:55 PM

Beautiful scales. Amateur welders blob. Skilled welders scale. Very nice.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 8 2017, 04:04 PM

I got the front hoop fully welded down then trimmed and tacked in the hoop-to-steering column support tabs. As I mentioned, I opted to lose the lower part that captured the hoop as it extended down below the dash and sorta felt like a potential future leg bitter...

I'm pretty psyched at just how well it all fits together. Here's the dash back in place.
How's that for tidy clearance?! Less than 1/4" gap all the way across.

All that's left is to fabricate a replacement lower dash mount/tab of some sort to replace the factory one. That had to come off as it ran smack into the hoop.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 9 2017, 05:28 PM

A bit all over the place today. I need to get the seats mounted because I want to have the tube that braces the door bar to the main hoop match the angle of the seat bolsters. Hey, it's the little things. Anyway, I had a couple spots to weld up to finish the rear floor install so I did that then started on the seat mounts.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 9 2017, 05:34 PM

Then I figured I may as well get the final templates made for the rear suspension tower boxes. I'm always amazed when things go to plan and it all fits just like I want. Here's the same template fit to both sides. It flexes a little but is a good indicator of how matchy match I got things. I'm really pleased at the side-to-side symmetry. Even that little notch for the cross bar pad weld on the outside edge is exactly right side to side.
I've said it before: This is the first time I've tackled a project like this and sometimes it's hard for me to believe it's turning out this well. I'm happy, if you couldn't tell.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 11 2017, 03:16 PM

Talk about something not important to getting this project running...
As I was pulling the dash so I could work on the cage, the gauge surround caught my eye as something that might be fun to play with.
I've always like the idea of running a small, diagonal set of German flag colored stripes from the front fender opening up over the fender, at some jaunty angle.
I figured I'd see what it'd look like on the gauge surround. Well, it looks like this.
At least with no gauges or any other interior components!
Not quite the right color yellow/gold but it's all I had.

Anyone else done something like this? I'd be interested to see how it looks "finished".


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Posted by: Cracker Jul 11 2017, 03:31 PM

Do you want me to be honest?

T

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 11 2017, 04:02 PM

Rookie stripes on my car... Sounds about right. Unless there something slower/more dangerous than "rookie"!

Posted by: Cracker Jul 11 2017, 04:05 PM

Install two-sets of them...

T

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 11 2017, 06:02 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 13 2017, 05:14 PM

Well, try as I might to not have gone this way, I've given in and will have to add a bit of "Cracker" to my build.
Hey, it's Tony's old engine so maybe it'll be happier with a similar exhaust set up.
These are just some $150 ebay specials but they are actually quite nice.

Gotta admit, I REALLY like the look. It's even more impactful when you see it in person.



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Posted by: ConeDodger Jul 13 2017, 05:25 PM

Fits! Fire it up!

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 13 2017, 05:47 PM

As I start getting closer to working on the various systems, I need to decide on gauges. I know folks have had success with the SpeedHut products but, as usual, I'd like something a little different. How about these from Classic Instruments?
Kinda stealthy and heck, they say "auto cross" right on them! It's like an omen!

I'm also toying with running only the tach and speedo in the instrument pod then running individual gauges in the console (that I have yet to design/build).

Again, we'll have to see...


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 13 2017, 07:29 PM

I translated the cardboard template into the plasma system and while it did require some fine tuning with the flap disc, it's a nice fit. I opted not to try and plasma cut the rounded corner. I don't fully trust my ability to program in the radius as it's not consistent. I'll trim it once it's in place.
That said, I did triumph over the 3" hole. It had to be designed/cut as an ellipse to account for the tipped angle of the Tangerine raised pick up.
That was fun...


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Posted by: banananose914 Jul 13 2017, 11:00 PM

I tend to like bone stock cars, but that is a nice set up.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 15 2017, 05:53 PM

Cross bar and seat mounts in. Well, passenger side anyway.

Oh CRAP! I forgot to put the tunnel in first... I hate it when that happens...


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 15 2017, 05:57 PM

I finished the driver's side seat mount and just had to test fit the GT Classics!
This is set to the angle that I'll use to determine the triangulation bar that runs from the door bar to the main hoop.
And this also means I can work on mounting the pedals.
Getting there...


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Posted by: Andyrew Jul 15 2017, 06:09 PM

Those seats look great!!!

Posted by: Cracker Jul 15 2017, 06:41 PM

Make sure those pedals are waaay forward...

T

Posted by: Mueller Jul 15 2017, 08:08 PM

Amazing build, keep it up!

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 15 2017, 08:36 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 15 2017, 05:41 PM)

Make sure those pedals are waaay forward...

T

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 16 2017, 02:41 PM

So I started playing with positioning the pedals and determined I'd want a little more leg room. No biggie, just slide the seat back a little bi.... The headrest juuust contacts the main hoop.

In this location, a 6' tall person would likely be comfy. But this hoop design consumes what turns out to be ~ 2" of seat travel - at least with these seats. I don't see that as something I want to give up.

Hmmm. Well, I didn't see that one coming.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 16 2017, 02:43 PM

A bit of head scratching has convinced me the existing hoop ain't gonna work.
I tossed the 'old' full height hoop in, just to see... Nope, I don't like that either.
I want to have, and be able to remove, all the interior trim.



Back to the drawing board!


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Posted by: Cracker Jul 16 2017, 02:47 PM

...not to mention that the full height bar isn't safe for road use with an open seat like you have! Get your thinker going...or should I say, keep it on!!!

T

Posted by: csdilligaf Jul 16 2017, 03:15 PM

Why isn't it safe? Maybe upper body an head being able to toss around and strike the bar? By open seat like he has do you mean a more closed seat is the ones that have the side protectors on each side for your head restraint? Just looking to learn from someone with more knowledge.

Posted by: Cracker Jul 16 2017, 03:36 PM

Correct. It is a combination of how the drivers head is shrouded; the height of the seat relative to cage work; the type of restraint system used; etc.

My "open seat" reference was not comparing it to a Halo seat (which I believe you thought), rather letting the shoulders and head move to the side so easily is what concerns me. Chris's seats are for a hot rod and there is nothing wrong with that! Below is the diagram of the seats I use...

One wack and you can be dead - big safety issue with cage cars running on the street!

T

QUOTE(csdilligaf @ Jul 16 2017, 05:15 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 16 2017, 06:38 PM

Well, I've come up with two options.

1. Bend up another hoop that is essentially the same as the current one but is lower so as to sit in the space between the top of the seat and the bottom of the head rest. This would also necessitate bending it such that it popped out then back in to clear the bulge in the firewall.

2. It's a bit hard to explain but essentially moves the hoop 100% into the engine compartment and turns it from a hoop into more just a cross bar.

I'm still thinking on it. but if I can pull off the bending, I think I prefer option 1. It'll give me another place to tie in the console that I'm planning.

Still thinking on this one...

Posted by: Dion Jul 16 2017, 08:03 PM

Chris I've nothing to add really but to say this is one damn cool build.
Enjoy your creativity and fabrication work.
Those seats are really cool.
Would individual style hoops work per seat. Styled like the Audi TT.
Just a thought. Have at it.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 07:33 AM

Here's the latest thinking on the chassis stiffening design.
1. It's a "race rod". This is a term I'm claiming defines a car that has elements of race car-ness but is clearly a "hot rod".
2. Given #1, above, I'm not trying to build something that will pass tech or be the stiffest ever (or even close) cage. I am after something that will be a big improvement over stock and help handle the motor.
3. Bonus points if it's a bit unique and makes me smile.

Initial mock up meets my criteria!
(note the tubes are not positioned exactly, exactly, but you get the idea...)

I'm going to plate the seat belt retractor area and land the angled bar top at that spot. On the back side, I'll remove the factory anchor bolt, plate that side and run a tube from there back to the suspension tower.

This saves me trying to fab a complex, multi-bend compound tube and eliminates having to deal with another hole in the firewall.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 07:39 AM

Keeping with the race rod approach, I'm going to stay with the stock, 3-point retractable seat belt.

With the cage location, I need to move the seat belt retractor. I talked with Seat Belt Planet and they can add the needed length to the belt so I can relocate the retractor to the base of the firewall.

So long as the retractor mechanism is mounted in the same physical orientation as stock, I'm good to go.

The retractor is just sitting there, not attached. I still need to fab the mounting location but again, you get the idea.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 07:40 AM

Mock up of the location for the shifter.

Feels like I'm making progress again.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 07:56 AM

I want to do some additional "triangluation" for the angled bar so I stated playing around with what a perforated panel might look like. This is the first hack/sketch so...

It'd echo the engine compartment panel design but I think this time I'd use 2 mirror image pieces and seam weld together the inner edges of the dimpled holes, making a hollow panel about 1/4" thick. Plenty strong.

And worst case, I can always use a tube to triangulate.

The saga continues.


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Posted by: csdilligaf Jul 26 2017, 08:08 AM

I like the plan. It will be way better than stock but still give you easy enough access. Good choice.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 08:09 AM

QUOTE(Dion @ Jul 16 2017, 07:03 PM)

Posted by: Cracker Jul 26 2017, 08:22 AM

I really like the direction you are going...only one design element to consider (given your point #1 above). The horizontal bar over 4th he rocker does not have to be that high...not even close. Consider positioning it at 1/2 the current height or keep the rear height the same and taper it down to the front. Can you "mock" it up like this repost pictures? Looking great Chris!

T

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 09:08 AM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 26 2017, 07:22 AM)

Posted by: Cracker Jul 26 2017, 09:17 AM

Double post...

Posted by: Cracker Jul 26 2017, 09:19 AM

Hey Chris...have you ever thought about something like this???

Tony

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 09:25 AM

And in the spirit of full disclosure:

I've said it before - mostly you see the end result in the pics, not the gaps in knowledge or experience, or the 'n' number of attempts at getting things to work out. So, it's only fair I pay tribute to those parts and pieces that sacrificed themselves to the cause. These are the latest examples of my learning as I go.

Put these in the "Don't" column:

- You can't expect a good result unless you have thought ahead and allowed for enough tube length so that the front part of the die doesn't run off the end of the tube and totally gack the part. (Yes, that is a rip in the tube...)

- given a particular radius die, there are limits to how close you can bend two radii. If you think you can outsmart physics and magically get them closer, you are wrong.

- as with all things in life, the facts are the facts and no amount of lube will make any difference.

I should start a website called "FabFail.com".

I'd be a regular contributor...


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Posted by: Cracker Jul 26 2017, 09:37 AM

Much better Chris...

If Patrick Motorsports would build a "race car" with such a cage (which I don't agree with btw) - it is perfectly fine for a "Race-Rod"! Regardless of the loss of stiffness... biggrin.gif

T

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 09:50 AM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 26 2017, 08:19 AM)

Hey Chris...have you ever thought about something like this???

Tony

Posted by: Cracker Jul 26 2017, 10:14 AM

LOL!

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 26 2017, 11:50 AM)

Which part(s)?
Dropped floor? right hand drive? the pedal box? a bolt in roll cage mount? orange? working on my build outside?

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 11:29 AM

Hack in MS Paint V2.

Maybe like this. But the bend would be a bit larger radius.


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Posted by: Andyrew Jul 26 2017, 02:45 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 26 2017, 06:40 AM)

Mock up of the location for the shifter.

Feels like I'm making progress again.

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 26 2017, 03:29 PM

[/quote]
Now, if I could just convince Rudy to work up his math on the difference in stiffness between these two designs...!
(seriously, though Rudy, that's impressive stuff to us who don't know a cosine from our elbow.)
[/quote]

No no no, no more calcs. They are summarily disregarded based on anecdotal experience. I'll play along. Anecdotally I can say that your current design delivers all of the loads to the weakest point in the long. Do your self a favor and tie your front hoop up to the strut tower. If you do that, then you're on to something. Alternatively, do one of your awesome gussets and tie that vertical front hoop bar into the vertical sheet metal area behind the A pillar. Otherwise, it's a very good looking design without adding much structural integrity to bending forces in the longs. It does look really good though. Especially that gusset back to the firewall. My 0.02 $.

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 26 2017, 03:41 PM

This is what I mean


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Posted by: ablesnead Jul 26 2017, 03:57 PM

You said race rod ...so in that spirt lose the gusset idea...does nothing but add weight....and even though the fabrication looks cool , it crosses the line of extraneous ....my opinion of course...but I am cursed with excellent taste .......

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 04:39 PM

[quote name='Curbandgutter' date='Jul 26 2017, 02:29 PM' post='2510405']
[/quote]
Now, if I could just convince Rudy to work up his math on the difference in stiffness between these two designs...!
(seriously, though Rudy, that's impressive stuff to us who don't know a cosine from our elbow.)
[/quote]

No no no, no more calcs. They are summarily disregarded based on anecdotal experience. I'll play along. Anecdotally I can say that your current design delivers all of the loads to the weakest point in the long. Do your self a favor and tie your front hoop up to the strut tower. If you do that, then you're on to something. Alternatively, do one of your awesome gussets and tie that vertical front hoop bar into the vertical sheet metal area behind the A pillar. Otherwise, it's a very good looking design without adding much structural integrity to bending forces in the longs. It does look really good though. Especially that gusset back to the firewall. My 0.02 $.
[/quote]

Rudy -
My explanations and execution are always behind the plans in my head.
Yes, I already had plans to tie the front hoop into the chassis, I was thinking the gussets would be a lot simpler to execute than tubes to the front towers but we'll see which I end up liking best. I am a slave to fashion, don'tcha know!

I also plan to tie the front hoop in as part of center tunnel/console. It will run to the front of the floor and up the inside of the front bulkhead. That should help add a bit more "twist resist".

Always appreciate your input, my friend!

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 04:44 PM

QUOTE(ablesnead @ Jul 26 2017, 02:57 PM)

You said race rod ...so in that spirt lose the gusset idea...does nothing but add weight....and even though the fabrication looks cool , it crosses the line of extraneous ....my opinion of course...but I am cursed with excellent taste .......

Posted by: Rand Jul 26 2017, 05:53 PM

Go ahead and place me in the "anecdotal" crowd if that's what you feel like, but I'm with ablesnead on this. The area in the triangle doesn't need more strength. It's worth more in art than function and adds weight. Which is great if that's what you want. My anecdotal belief is to use the least amount of material (and weight) to get the job done. Why add unnecessary stuff to a car that is so potentially light?

Posted by: Cracker Jul 26 2017, 05:59 PM

No registration required Rand...you already hold a members card! Well, I was lumped into membership by Rudy too!

T

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 26 2017, 06:53 PM)

Posted by: Rand Jul 26 2017, 06:05 PM

I make sharp comments about projects. It adds something, fwiw. I don't ever mean to diss people. (Sorry to anyone who felt like I did.)

Ahh, after your edit I get another bit of where you're coming from. Good company. Love you too, Tony.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 06:55 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 26 2017, 05:05 PM)

Quite the comedian. I make sharp comments about projects. It adds something, fwiw. I don't ever mean to diss people. (Sorry to anyone who felt like I did.)

Ahh, after your edit I get another bit of where you're coming from. Good company. Love you too, Tony.

Posted by: Rand Jul 26 2017, 07:01 PM

Well said. Sometimes communicating online gets funky because we can't see the mannerisms, expressions, and all. Good thing though, we are all in the same garage here.

We rib each other, we eat meat, we drink beer, we call out stuff that doesn't make sense, we rib each other more. And you can remove any part of that you don't like if you are a vegan and don't drink.
I'd say anything in person that I say here. It would be interpreted differently at times I'm sure! LOL

Keep it coming. The more we get to know each other, the better the garage gets.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 26 2017, 08:34 PM

Keep it coming? Well OK then!

I had some time this evening so bent up the one piece, angle down door bar. Here it is. Forgive the hack MS Paint job but I wanted to get a better feel for what it might look like with the supports (ish).

Flipping the bend really changes the look. I'm not sure which I like best.

Decisions, decisions.


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Posted by: Andyrew Jul 26 2017, 10:10 PM

Real opinion? I like as much leg room getting in and out of the car as possible... the 914 is already a super tight squeeze for me anyways. Now I know you have your floor pan drop which is giving you a much needed extra room, but it still is difficult sqeezing that left leg in around the steering wheel and in front of the A pillar.

I have NO idea how Tony does it...

My point being I would prefer the front bar to terminate as early as possible with a thick plate encompasing the Long and then the front A pillar roll loop starting much before the door opening and then there a short gusset to the a pillar and lower a pillar.

Then again I am as I mentioned a big fan of the hidden roll cage, like the RUF cars and this guy.
http://www.redlinerennsport.com/CagePage.html

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 26 2017, 11:11 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 26 2017, 06:01 PM)

Well said. Sometimes communicating online gets funky because we can't see the mannerisms, expressions, and all. Good thing though, we are all in the same garage here.

We rib each other, we eat meat, we drink beer, we call out stuff that doesn't make sense, we rib each other more. And you can remove any part of that you don't like if you are a vegan and don't drink.
I'd say anything in person that I say here. It would be interpreted differently at times I'm sure! LOL

Keep it coming. The more we get to know each other, the better the garage gets.

Posted by: jd74914 Jul 26 2017, 11:22 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 26 2017, 05:44 PM)

QUOTE(ablesnead @ Jul 26 2017, 02:57 PM)

You said race rod ...so in that spirt lose the gusset idea...does nothing but add weight....and even though the fabrication looks cool , it crosses the line of extraneous ....my opinion of course...but I am cursed with excellent taste .......

"...and even though the fabrication looks cool..."
See, that right there? That's my problem!
Though it really does add (needed) strength, given that corner of the design isn't a triangle. I'll mock it up and see what I think, but it's a gusset or a tube. Something has to go there.

Keep the cards and letters coming...

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 26 2017, 11:26 PM

I like that design for the side bar because I'm still a little squeamish about contact with another vehicle and I want all of the protection I can get.
Would it help if the rear short hoop was angled on the long behind the bulkhead so far as giving you the room you need behind the seats? I know what I'm thinking of but without the car in front of me to look and assess my ideas it's kinda hard...
And Andy, Tony uses lots of lube... LOTS of lube.... to get in and out of his car.

Posted by: Mueller Jul 27 2017, 12:59 AM

I like the side bar, I had a harebrained idea of putting the main hoop for a cage on the "other" side of the back window for more room. Of course the targa bar would have to be butchered up beyond putting car back to stock easily. I think you are past that point currently

Posted by: mbseto Jul 27 2017, 07:36 AM

If you are going to add something just for aesthetic value, right there in the door opening is a good place... You've already got a theme going, I think I'd do it. Ties the room together. So to speak.

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 27 2017, 08:34 AM

QUOTE(jd74914 @ Jul 26 2017, 10:22 PM)

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 26 2017, 05:44 PM)

QUOTE(ablesnead @ Jul 26 2017, 02:57 PM)

You said race rod ...so in that spirt lose the gusset idea...does nothing but add weight....and even though the fabrication looks cool , it crosses the line of extraneous ....my opinion of course...but I am cursed with excellent taste .......

"...and even though the fabrication looks cool..."
See, that right there? That's my problem!
Though it really does add (needed) strength, given that corner of the design isn't a triangle. I'll mock it up and see what I think, but it's a gusset or a tube. Something has to go there.

Keep the cards and letters coming...

I feel like you need something there if you really want to stiffen it up. The bar is good, but a shear panel to transfer load into a wider area seems better. Rudy can weigh in here, but I feel like the sheet metal would be a more effective stiffener than another bar for triangulation. You're not using stupid thick sheet so it really shouldn't be that much heavier than a tube.

It looks cool too!

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 27 2017, 01:29 PM

OK, structural guys: A little help. Does this make sense, strength wise?

Box/plate from the front hoop to the inner fender. Where the plates (side and top) hit the inner fender and A pillar wall, I'll fold an angle, suitably sized so I can spot weld it. Everything else gets seam welded and I'd add some lightening holes

NOTE: the door bar hits pretty low on the front hoop so my assumption is that this "support box"needn't be much higher than that. Good assumption?






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Posted by: Rand Jul 27 2017, 03:14 PM

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 27 2017, 03:38 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 27 2017, 02:14 PM)

Posted by: Cracker Jul 27 2017, 04:19 PM

Although you are correct (technically) very few drivers even get close to pushing the cornering limits of their cars. Even at a hefty "teener" weight of 2400 pounds - it is ridiculously light compared to let's say, a 918 (or a GT3 Cup, etc.). Chris could make his entire car an "art piece" and it wouldn't matter for its intended purpose. Spirited laps on summer tires will (still) be fun - in the right hands, still a rocket.

T

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 27 2017, 04:14 PM)

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 27 2017, 05:22 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 27 2017, 12:29 PM)

Posted by: Cracker Jul 27 2017, 06:18 PM

Rudy...you did mean Chris, correct?

T

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 27 2017, 06:25 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 27 2017, 05:18 PM)

Posted by: Rand Jul 27 2017, 06:38 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 27 2017, 03:19 PM)

Although you are correct (technically) very few drivers even get close to pushing the cornering limits of their cars. Even at a hefty "teener" weight of 2400 pounds - it is ridiculously light compared to let's say, a 918 (or a GT3 Cup, etc.). Chris could make his entire car an "art piece" and it wouldn't matter for its intended purpose. Spirited laps on summer tires will (still) be fun - in the right hands, still a rocket.

T

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 27 2017, 04:14 PM)

QUOTE

Don't listen to all these guys talking about weight.

I know some racers who fight for ounces. It all adds up. Sometimes the cheapest horsepower is less weight, and it's even more important in the corners.

Posted by: ablesnead Jul 27 2017, 06:44 PM

I am glad you are taking all this in the spirit it is intended...so I'll add this perspective...I will accept that the rod part is an aesthetic exercise , and although it can incorporate function , it art is primarily in its visual appeal....but this isn't a 49 merc leadsled or ungainly high boy ..so the foundation you choose is representative of a light nimble car . good art is one that supports that premise . the metal that you sculpt needs to add to the light and nimble effect , one of superior performance , thru simplicity yet artistically your own rendition...replacing the rear firewall did exacty that ....you sill to door pillar does the opposite......This is fun

Posted by: Cracker Jul 27 2017, 06:57 PM

Thank you for the encouragement Rand....I'll jump off whichever bridge you point out too.

T

[quote name='Rand' date='Jul 27 2017, 07:38
"You should always push the cornering limits of your car! The only way to find the edge is to push past it. What a shame to have a supercar and never have a clue how much farther you could push it."
[/quote]

Posted by: Curbandgutter Jul 27 2017, 07:21 PM

[quote name='Cracker' date='Jul 27 2017, 05:57 PM' post='2510855']
Thank you for the encouragement Rand....I'll jump off whichever bridge you point out too.

T

[quote name='Rand' date='Jul 27 2017, 07:38
"You should always push the cornering limits of your car! The only way to find the edge is to push past it. What a shame to have a supercar and never have a clue how much farther you could push it."
[/quote]
[/quote]

I know a real heavy one.

Posted by: jmalone Jul 27 2017, 07:48 PM

I like the latest rendition. BUT more gusset! Run it full length, split your vertical tubes so that they run on each side of the gusset and use only full circle lightening holes.......

Posted by: Cracker Jul 27 2017, 07:55 PM

Have you been wiretapping our lines?

Tony

QUOTE(jmalone @ Jul 27 2017, 08:48 PM)

Posted by: jmalone Jul 27 2017, 08:09 PM

Maybe.....

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 29 2017, 05:58 PM

Decision made! I'm going with the one piece door bar.
So, time to bend up the final pieces. Here's the mighty, mighty bender. It's a beast.


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 29 2017, 06:02 PM

Gettin' jiggy wi't it! (See what I did there?)

Got the first one done and then it's time to make an exact match. Well, as exact as I can get it... but the fixturing table is like cheating. It makes things like this so much simpler.

First bend and so far, so good!


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 29 2017, 06:06 PM

Next bend. I end up sneaking up on it. There are marks on the ram assembly that I use to measure how far it's extended. I check the bend as it's bending by holding the big protractor over it and eyeball it 'til it looks close. (This bender doesn't have a degree gauge on it.)

Then I pull the bar and check it in the jig. If I need more angle, I put it back in the bender, extend the ram to the previous measurement and give it just a bit more!

Here's the result after three rounds of the ol' "in and out".

Yea! Nailed it...


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 29 2017, 06:08 PM

Mock up.

I really like this. The angle is nicely aligned with the seat back and when I'm in the seat, it turns out the bar is an awesome arm rest!


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Posted by: tygaboy Jul 29 2017, 06:32 PM

And credit where credit is due:

Tony - thanks for suggesting I mock up the bar with the down angle!

Posted by: Rand Jul 31 2017, 10:34 PM

QUOTE(Curbandgutter @ Jul 27 2017, 06:21 PM)

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 27 2017, 05:57 PM)

Thank you for the encouragement Rand....I'll jump off whichever bridge you point out too.

T

[quote name='Rand' date='Jul 27 2017, 07:38
"You should always push the cornering limits of your car! The only way to find the edge is to push past it. What a shame to have a supercar and never have a clue how much farther you could push it."

I know a real heavy one.

Posted by: Cracker Aug 1 2017, 04:58 AM

...sigh.

QUOTE(Rand @ Aug 1 2017, 12:34 AM)

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 1 2017, 07:34 AM

Flashback/nightmare of the day -
Tony and Rand in the back seat of our 1969 Ford station wagon (with wood paneling of course). Somehow, they are 7 years old. I'm driving:

Me: "Hey you two! Play nice! Don't make me pull over..."



Love you both,
Chris


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 1 2017, 07:44 AM

[/quote]
The down angle is perfect! One more short tube from the lower elbow to the long in front of the firewall, BAM. Might even eliminate the need for the short vert piece in the middle.

Beautiful work, Chris.
[/quote]

Rand -
Thanks for the continued kind words and encouragement. I'm a believer in the whole "nature abhors even numbers" thing so the plan is for three verts.
Just looks more balanced to me... But I'll play around with it as final fitting happens.

(oooh, maybe no verts and just a panel of dimple died holes... )


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Posted by: Rand Aug 2 2017, 11:31 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Aug 1 2017, 03:58 AM)

...sigh.

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 5 2017, 08:20 AM

A little help, please? With the change in plan for the main hoop, I need to patch the firewall. Rather than jump in and fab something I thought I'd first check to see if I could find some factory metal:

Anyone have a suitable donor car and the willingness to slice out this chunk? I need the same part for both sides

PM me if you can help. I need to complete this before I can install the door bars and I REALLY want to install the door bars so I'm a motivated buyer...

Thanks!
Chris


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Posted by: 76-914 Aug 5 2017, 09:10 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 29 2017, 04:58 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 5 2017, 01:14 PM

Teaser questions:

1. What's wrong with this picture?
- Hint the LS3 operates with a DBW throttle body. That there is a mechanical linkage.

Answer: Nothing is wrong with the pic.

2. What silliness have I committed myself to now?

Answer: I'll post pics as soon as I can!




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Posted by: Cracker Aug 5 2017, 02:03 PM

I have a hunch...does that control the Flux-Capacitor?!?!?

T

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 5 2017, 06:32 PM

Well, it's finally happened. I'd been doing well on the "nothing I've welded in has had to be cut out" front but the work sunk into the fire wall openings for the initial main hoop design has been cut out. And it's going back to exactly what it was before I started messing with it.
Ah well, it is what it is...

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 6 2017, 11:19 AM

Turns out I had kept the driver side piece from the '72 I parted out. I still have a few tweaks before I'll call it done but it's turning out pretty well. I'm !

Now to source the passenger side piece. Sounds like Cary has a nice one...


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Posted by: Cracker Aug 6 2017, 11:30 AM

Very well done Chris...it look great!

T

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 6 2017, 09:07 PM

It was a day of metal work. First the firewall then back to work on the chassis stiffening.
I decided not to do the gussets as the primary tie-in for the front hoop. Instead, it'll be a bar from the hoop to the front suspension tower.
So I thought I'd take a swing at fabbing up a support pad.
The big compound curve means I got to practice with the English Wheel and shrinker.
It still needs some additional work and final trimming but I think I like it!


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 6 2017, 09:11 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Aug 6 2017, 10:30 AM)

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 6 2017, 09:20 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 6 2017, 08:07 PM)

Posted by: cary Aug 7 2017, 01:16 PM

Took a bit of work to get the piece you need. Its jacked up on Super In Laws wooden stacker. So we got the Big Joe pallet stacker out and lifted it off the contraption.


Down on to Doug's wooden dolly and ready for amputation.


Part was extracted by Super In Law. Pretty simple until you get to the air vent hole. It has 3-4 layers going 3-4 different directions. Took him a couple hours to figure it out. But he got it out for you with the flanges intact.


Part left with Matt. It will get shipped out at 914 Rubber.

After that he kept tearing down the parts car. Not keeping too much. Cut out the remaining portion of the firewall. Probably the headlight buckets. Longs are crap, but we'll cut out the uppers and the mounts. We'll cut out the tunnel and see what we have. Door hinge posts. Front portion of engine the engine tray. He busted his ass all day ..
Still amazes me ..........

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 7 2017, 02:40 PM

Cary - That's it exactly! I send you an email w/details on next steps.
Thanks SO MUCH!
Chris

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 9 2017, 12:40 PM

Much as I love Martin's help doing the TIG welding - and plan to have him do more - I happily admit it pisses me off and is a personal sore point. I will never hide this fact and whenever anyone comments "wow, nice welding", I have to give credit where it's due and I tell them about Martin.

It's... I'll say "disappointing", because I'll never be able to say I did 100% of my build. It's just how I'm wired.

So what to do? How about practice?

As some of you may know, I have a little side business doing yard art sorts of stuff and that affords me some work where my welding structural and visual results aren't quite as critical. Not that I don't do the best I can...

Anyway, here's part of yesterday's MIG work, as welded, not cleaned up. It's part of a 12' wide, 7' tall, vertical xylophone I was commissioned to do for a local school.

The "out of position" work is where I'm not reliably up to snuff. But I'm SLOWLY getting to where I may feel comfortable doing my own welding on some of the more visual areas of my build.




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Posted by: Andyrew Aug 9 2017, 01:32 PM

Dem some nice C's! Penetration looks great as well!

Can you turn up your welder any more? I would have preferred a hair more heat myself so long as the metal can take it. (My only critique, Your technique looks spot on!)

Posted by: Dion Aug 9 2017, 01:45 PM

Chris, top notch as usual. You reshape metal quicker than I can turn the welder on!
Looks great.
Cheers

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 9 2017, 02:10 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 9 2017, 12:32 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 9 2017, 02:21 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Aug 9 2017, 12:45 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 11 2017, 04:24 PM

Big thanks to Cary, Super In-Law and 914 Rubber! The firewall patch showed up yesterday!
I had planned a day off to work on the car so in it went.
Here it is all trimmed up, ready for welding.


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 11 2017, 04:25 PM

and some and a bit of grinding...


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 11 2017, 04:27 PM

Hit it with some weld through primer (I found a few pin holes I need to close up...) but I wanted to get it at least some protection.
By the time it gets the final finish, I think it'll look "factory fresh". Hope so, anyway.


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Posted by: bbrock Aug 11 2017, 04:52 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 11 2017, 04:27 PM)

Hit it with some weld through primer (I found a few pin holes I need to close up...) but I wanted to get it at least some protection.
By the time it gets the final finish, I think it'll look "factory fresh". Hope so, anyway.

Posted by: cary Aug 11 2017, 11:49 PM

gooder as new.

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 12 2017, 05:21 PM

With the firewall patching complete, it's back to work on the chassis stiffening.
I hole sawed through the seat belt retractor area as well as the support pads for that area. This allows me some for/aft adjustment as I get to fitting the door bars.

Note that in the pics, the bars are shifted rearward over 3" because I have yet to trim the front end of the bar. So the angled part will sit a bunch forward from how it looks - see the pics earlier in thread for a more accurate view.

Anyway, once everything is welded in, I'll dress any part of the tube that may poke through and weld around the tube, securing it to that support pad.
Then another support pad goes on the engine compartment side and I run the tube from there, back to the cross bar/rear shock tower.

And the vertical support is just there to support the bar. Final locations for all the verticals are tbd upon completion of trimming the front of the tube and determining where the rear-most vertical will be.

I'm liking the way this is coming together.


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 12 2017, 05:31 PM

However, before the door bars go in, I want to more securely tie the front hoop to the chassis. As mentioned, I decided I wanted to run a tube from the hoop to the front suspension. Before I can do that, I have to add support pads to the suspension area.

This is proving to be a lot of work. Not a flat surface to be seen! And my initial mock up wasn't going to be sufficient - I need to use at least 12 gauge for the support pads so it's back to the drawing board.

First I made up paper templates then cut the material to size. Now, how to shape it?

How about this handy curved chunk of wood and a rubber mallet? These and some various size scraps of tube from 1" to 3"...

Here's the result. I was surprised that, within not a very long time, I was able to get a pretty tight fit and good side-to-side symmetry.

These pieces wrap the "upper" part of the tower.

Oh, and note to self: Push the top of the struts all the way back to be sure there's suitable clearance for everything!


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 12 2017, 05:35 PM

Then it was on to the "lower" pad. This is a real bitch of a compound curve.
I'm not done shaping but you get the idea how this will all go together.

Next, I need to bend up the bars. Or maybe just go to a bar...


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 12 2017, 05:41 PM

This time, I used a piece of pretty stout welding rod to mock up an initial guestimate of the shape of the tube.
Doing all this by myself can be "fun". Trying to hold something in position while bending the other end while trying to keep the stinkin' thing in the middle of the hole I want it to pass through....!

And it worked! I got it on the first try. Then it's copy the shape for the other side.
I used the same jig approach and I nailed the shape of tube #2 with just one additional adjustment.

Still have to do final trimming on both ends of both tubes.


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 12 2017, 05:46 PM

Then I finished up my day by prepping the vertical supports' support pads. After careful consideration, I think I'll have three verticals per side, plus the hoop.

Chris Foley (Tangerine Racing) was kind enough to sell me just the pads. However, because I skinned my longs, the radius Chris uses doesn't work for my car and needs adjustment.

I devised a way of using a vise and trusty rubber mallet to tighten the radius. Then I have to reset the angle. Not too bad, though. And each one fits nicely where it needs to be.

I'm calling that a successful day. Almost ready to weld all this stuff in! That will be a major accomplishment and big milestone in the build.

Maybe next week/weekend?


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 18 2017, 09:30 AM

With the chassis stiffening coming together, I started thinking about closing up the lower firewall. Initial mock up was one piece but with all the systems that have to pass through it, I decided to make it with a removable center section.
So I started playing with one of the outer pieces. This is just a test piece in my typical approach of "I need to see it in physical form before I know if I like it".
Plus, it gives me a chance to practice with the bead roller.
It's little things like connecting the last bit of the bead to where it first started.
You can see I just barely missed (center of the top section.)

And design wise, I think I can come up with something more interesting than this first draft.

This was also my first attempt at hammer forming. I used this technique on the flanges and am really happy with how it wraps the corner at the top of the long. It nicely fits the curve!

I'm confident I can get these pieces to turn out really well within a couple more attempts.


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Posted by: 914dave Aug 18 2017, 10:43 AM

Looking good!!! I'm impressed with all the details...

Posted by: bbrock Aug 18 2017, 11:24 AM

Nice work! Would love to see a pic of your form. What are you using for a corking tool to hammer in those beads. I'm heading to town for some hard maple this afternoon. Maybe you have something better?

Loving the progress!

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 18 2017, 01:30 PM

The chassis stiffening I'm doing is just that: chassis stiffening. This isn't to be confused with a roll cage. That said, I am doing most all I can to make it correctly.
However, I'll admit to cutting a couple corners. And here's one:
Getting that 12 ga material to fit well against the front fender compound curve didn't go as well as I wanted.
So, after much debate and consultation with a couple race car fab folks (and given my "race rod" disclaimer), I decided to wimp out and make the support pads out of 14 ga.
There is a fair bit if structure up around the suspension towers already and this more than doubles the material thickness of the fender well.
Plus the force is directed (mostly) at the tower. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Again, my race car consultants both said that, given my application, this should be more than sufficient.
So, instead of hammering into the curved block like last time, out comes the English wheel!

It's the proper tool for making compound curves in sheet.

Here's the blank as I start to raise the shape.


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 18 2017, 01:31 PM

14 ga material has some strength to it... It took me about 30 mins of wheeling to get it where I needed it to be. Good little upper body workout, too!


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 18 2017, 01:34 PM

Once I had the shape I wanted, I laid out the pattern for the pieces.
Needing mirror image pieces means it's important to REMEMBER TO FLIP THE PATTERN when doing the layout... Ask me how I know...

After looking at this for a minute, I realized that if I ever get tired of working on cars, I can always go into business making steel bras.


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 18 2017, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Aug 18 2017, 10:24 AM)

Nice work! Would love to see a pic of your form. What are you using for a corking tool to hammer in those beads. I'm heading to town for some hard maple this afternoon. Maybe you have something better?

Loving the progress!

Posted by: Mueller Aug 18 2017, 02:03 PM

Great work as usual.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 18 2017, 03:46 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 18 2017, 01:43 PM)

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 18 2017, 05:21 PM

I was able to get all the pieces rough trimmed and fit.
You can see how, in the first pic, the piece lays nicely on the fender. In the second pic, the top part "interferes" a bit and moves it out of position.
That's OK because all the final trimming will happen as the parts are welded in and the exact intersections are able to be determined and any interference gets cleaned up.
I'm really happy with how these turned out.


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 18 2017, 05:31 PM

Next, I went back to work on the the chassis stiffening. I have to so some fancy cutting / piecing to make the cross bar that will connect in at the top of the door bars.

It has to fit behind the seat head rest supports then pop out to clear the bump in the firewall, then pop back in and fit behind the other seat.

The mighty, mighty bender can't make the needed bends close enough together so I have to do the cross bar in pieces. Again, just fine for a race rod. And if I get it right, you'll be hard pressed to know it's not a one piece bar.

Anyway... I was diligently working away on fabbing the cross bar when UPS showed up...

And that was the end of my productivity.


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 18 2017, 05:38 PM

I don't know what to say other than I couldn't take any more of Tony saying I'd be a fool not to do it...

Well, OK, that's no entirely true. I do know what to say:

I've always wanted an engine with ITBs. So what the hell. Now I have one.

This is so f-ing bad ass I can't hardly stand it.

Problem is, now I'll spend the next 2 weeks standing there staring at it and not make any progress on the build.


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Posted by: Mueller Aug 18 2017, 05:55 PM

How are you going to control those 8 beautiful butterflys right there?

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 19 2017, 07:34 AM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Aug 18 2017, 04:55 PM)

How are you going to control those 8 beautiful butterflys right there?

Posted by: Cracker Aug 19 2017, 07:45 AM

Chris - You already know what I think about it - SICK! Now that I also own two of these systems myself I am a very interested party in your tuning experience.

Hurry up so I don't have to go first!

T

PS: For once on this build it appears you don't have to modify the firewall for the stacks...how they are canted - it looks like you DID make it PERFECT! Damn!

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 19 2017, 08:02 AM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Aug 19 2017, 06:45 AM)

Chris - You already know what I think about it - SICK! Now that I also own two of these systems myself I am a very interested party in your tuning experience.

Hurry up so I don't have to go first!

T

PS: For once on this build it appears you don't have to modify the firewall for the stacks...how they are canted - it looks like you DID make it PERFECT! Damn!

Posted by: Mueller Aug 19 2017, 09:18 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 19 2017, 06:34 AM)

QUOTE(Mueller @ Aug 18 2017, 04:55 PM)

How are you going to control those 8 beautiful butterflys right there?

It's cable actuated. I took advantage of the fact that Borla will package up a "kit". They recommended the Holley HP ecu and since I'm a fan of the "one throat to choke" model, I went with everything from them: ITBs, injectors, ecu, harness, fuel pump, sensors, fuel filter. They even threw in a sync tool.

Coming up soon on the to-do list, I'm going to pull the motor and send it to a tuner/dyno to get an initial set up.

Any suggestions for a shop in the SF bay area that can do this work?

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 19 2017, 04:58 PM

That is going to be the best sounding LS 914 out there! SO EXCITED!

Didnt know you went with polished but I think it looks amazing!!!

Great decision there!

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 19 2017, 06:23 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 19 2017, 03:58 PM)

Posted by: csdilligaf Aug 19 2017, 06:30 PM

Getting more awesome as the build goes on. I noticed the headers and started from the page 1 to see what they were but got tired around page 20 or so. What are they? A stock shelf item for maybe a boat? Or did you have them made? Sure lays in the ideal location though.

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 19 2017, 06:30 PM

After drooling over the intake set up for that past 24 hours, I re-hydrated and forced myself to get back to the chassis work.

Time to miter all the tubes in prep for welding.

Here's the notcher, in all it's glory, ready to cut the front hoop end of the door bar.

I set the tube in the car in the position I want it and use a simple, little plastic protractor to get the angle. Then set the notcher to that angle and cut the miter.

The only tricky part is that the hole in the firewall where the upper part of the door bar goes doesn't allow the door bar to sit quite parallel to the long. So I have to twist it just so to get it to line up. This causes the bends to sorta flare outward a bit... Hard to explain but suffice it to say that I have to cut the miter a bit out of line with the bends in the door bar.

So, here it is ready to cut. Ready... Set... CUT! (all the while praying I measured correctly and properly set all the angles...!)


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 19 2017, 06:32 PM

Yea! Measuring, checking and measuring again 47 times and cutting once pays off.

I got a really nice fit!


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 19 2017, 06:38 PM

I cut both door bars and all went well there. Then it was on to the verticals. I figured I start with what I thought would be the hardest one. I want the tube smack in the middle of the bend so I divide that bend angle in half and cut that angle into the top of the vertical. Then it's a matter of trimming the bottom until it's the exact length to hold the door bar in parallel alignment with the long (when viewed from directly above).

I have final, final trimming yet to do on the overall length but the fit is looking really nice.

This is the first time I've done this sort of detailed fab on cage tubes. I'm happy to report that if you follow what all those YouTube videos suggest, it all goes pretty much to plan. The series I found helpful was this one:

http://thefabricatorseries.com/build-blogs//how-to-build-a-time-attack-roll-cage

He gets into some of the important tips and tricks that I found spot on and really effective.

And certainly, having some nice tools makes it go faster and (for me), more accurately. Again, I'm no expert. But I'm thrilled at how it's going.


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