Hi World!
Let the games begin!
As the title says, it's a '75 that's getting an LS3 (Cracker's "old" motor - thanks Tony!) and Boxster 6 speed.
Also planned is zippidy doo-dah 911 front suspension with Boxster calipers all around. The rear suspension is getting 911 ebrakes, Tangerine Racing raised pickups and shock towers.
I have plans to stiffen the chassis with a partial cage.
Doesn't that sound like a great plan? I think so, too!
BACKGROUND:
I got this as a roller that was purported to be "dry and accident free". And it was!
Except for all the rust and the place where it was hit. Yeah, yeah... But it's all good. The seller and I worked everything out.
But our little 914s are full of surprises and isn't that half the fun? So, first up is rust repair time!
Let's begin with some pics of what I started with. Wish me luck! Wait, forget the luck, wish me SKILL!!!
Attached image(s)
Hey, looks pretty good! Let's have a look under the carpet.
This is encouraging...
Attached image(s)
How about the hell hole? Hmmm.
Attached image(s)
The outer longs? Pretty nice! No problem! I mean, how much trouble could possibly be caused by those little hell hole perforations?
Remember the Monty Python and the Holy Grail? Where they have to cross that bridge and get asked "what's your favorite color?" and the first guy answers and gets to cross? Remember what the next knight said?
"This is easy!"
Remember what happened to him?
So let's pull the interior out and remove the tar.... "Hello? Restoration Design?"
Attached image(s)
Forgot the pic of the outer longs...
Attached image(s)
A real contributing factor to the rust issue was failed window seals and a horrid non-repair that used some odd goo to try and plug the leaks. So at some point, a PO figured that part of the solution was to add drain holes... !
The passenger long rust was exacerbated by water sitting in that area.
I would have thought water and hell would cancel each other out!
Attached image(s)
So... NOW we'll let the games begin. And I want to start with a disclaimer:
TO EACH, HIS OWN
By this I mean, I'm just a guy with an opinion. Doesn't mean I'm right, just that it's what I believe, think, feel, etc.
My goal with the car is to do as high quality work as I can muster. In my opinion, that means complete panels vs patching. Plus, some of the "interesting" things I want to do as part of this project are more easily accomplished this way. More on that as I get to it.
OK, back to the action. Let's find out where the rust stops and what needs replacing.
Turns out it's:
- back 1/2 of the floor
- seat mount/cross brace
- inner firewal
- outer firewall
- passenger inner long (from a bit ahead of the engine mount to not quite 1/2 way forward)
So out comes the bad!
I was hopeful that the first set of incisions (first pic) would be enough but upon reflection (and given the 400+ hp this chassis is getting) I decided to go all in - or maybe that's "all out"! (2nd pic)
Note that I've started fitting the front sleeve. More on that in a bit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Good "skill" Chris...do that motor proud! I know you do really nice work and I will continue to look forward to the progress posts!
PS: So this means the latest acquisition is on the way out then, correct?
Tony
Whoa, that is going to be a little bit of work!
Nice sized shop so at least you are not hindered by lack of space.
Those Enkie wheels look to be in great shape, at least you'll be able to get a few bucks out of those.
In planning the fabrication of the sleeves needed for the long repair, I noticed I was going to have to deal with a bit of a structural raised section in the bottom of the forward area.
I recently treated myself to a bead roller and was able to put it to good use.
Gotta say, having the right tools almost feels like cheating. Nowhere near as much
I used it to form a nice, tight fit around that raised section then roll over the 90 degree bends to complete the sleeve.
Turned out pretty well.
Attached image(s)
I sliced the longitudinal repair section out of my parts car. That was a fair bit of work, in and of itself!
And here's the first goof of documenting my build:
I fabbed up the sleeve for the rear part of the long repair. It was FAR more complicated as I had to deal with the raised reinforcement "ribs" that are part of the doubler that runs up the inside of the long, past the engine and inner suspension mount.
I was so impressed with myself and how well everything fit that I immediately forgot to take any pics and commenced with tacking things into place...
Anyway, here it's trimmed and fit. Also gives a view of what these look like with no inner or outer firewall or back half of the floor!
Note the double/triple-up on the door brace. I'm super paranoid about keeping the very nice door gaps this chassis has.
I'm using Tangerine Racing's door brace kit.
*** Unabashed promotion***
If you need 914 stuff and Tangerine Racing makes it, save yourself a ton of time and just buy it! Chris Foley and his team (and products!) are the best.
Back to the build:
I used the door brace kit as provided plus added another diagonal from the upper seat belt mount to a plate/bolt that I welded just inside the front of the door opening. This means I have a brace in place but can mount the doors and check gaps!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hell hole/long repair welding nearly completed! I opened up holes in the outer skin that allowed me to drill then plug weld the sleeve to the inner reinforcement panel.
A couple of those holes are yet to be closed up.
You may have noticed I've eliminated the heater tubes. V8 means no need. This opens the door to some custom fab I want to do:
I'm doing an inner long stiffener kit but because the firewalls are out, I can run them from the front of the long all the way to, and a bit past, the suspension console.
And I'm planning a center mount ebrake handle so these stiffeners will have no cut outs or heater inspection holes.
More as I get to that.
Attached thumbnail(s)
My paranoia paid off and another Tangerine product performs as advertised!
The door gaps are uber nice, body lines are spot on and the doors close with zero up/down movement as they latch and unlatch. These are early doors off the parts car and they end up with gaps a bit larger at the rear than the front. If I do run these doors, I'll add a small shim behind the hinges to even up the gap.
Also, since the windshield frame can end up tweaked for any number of reasons (being used when entering/exiting the car, etc.), the chassis measurement spec isn't always to be used as gospel. But in combination with other measurements, including door gaps, you can be sure things are where they should be.
That said, looky where mine ended up! This would suggest the windshield frame is straight.
Attached thumbnail(s)
CHASSIS STIFFENING: Version 1
LS3 = I need to stiffen this chassis. A lot.
I'll be adding an inner long kit but also need to do more. So, I started to fab a roll cage.
I want this car to retain as much street use ergonomics as possible, plus I want to have a nice interior. To accomplish this, Version 1 of the cage was designed to be a bolt in: A roll hoop with door bars that extended up to just ahead of the door opening and bolt to the top of the long. Something like the one pictured below.
This meant I could tuck it tight to the interior but since it comes in and out, I could install the trim panels, do all the other upholstery then bolt in the cage.
Attached image(s)
CHASSIS STIFFENING:Version 1
From a design perspective, I'm trying to add little things details that may be unique elements. I figured I see how close I could get the roll cage to match the shape of the car.
So out comes the roll bender!
Once the curve was where I wanted it, it was measure and bend the legs.
I'm happy with how it turned out.
Attached image(s)
CHASSIS STIFFENING: Version II - Change of Plan
As I've been thinking about the bolt in design, I spoke with a number of experienced folks (Chris Foley, Tony/Cracker) and some race car fab buddies and decided I didn't want to go bolt in. But I also didn't want a race car cage with full front hoop, etc.
What to do....
I understand the targa structure of our cars are pretty strong and since this is a street car that will see the occasional track day, I decided to build what I'll call a "roadster cage".
The main hoop will come up to just below the rear window, it'll have legs back to the top of the long near the suspension consoles. In the cabin, there will be a hoop under the dash and door bars with drops that tie into the tops of the longs. This will all be installed over the inner long stiffener kit.
That said, I also wanted to hide as much of this "cage" as I could. So I'm trying something a bit different. A "through the firewall" design!
Here's the initial rough-in of the rear hoop. It's roll bent to match the curve of the window opening.
The final fit will have the top of the bar just under the window and able to serve as the shoulder harness mount. The window and all stock interior trim can go in/out. I planned to eliminate the back pad so no worries there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Interesting idea. It should provide some stiffness, without the bulky full overhead cage.
Now that is a very cool way to stiffen the car and do it as low-profile as possible.
Very nice Chris...have it running at WCR!
Tony
Very nice bar tuck. If your not planning on running anything up the logs, cut a slit in the lower rear firewall, and extend stiffing all the way from the front to the rear suspension console.
I would also highly recommend 914 LTD outer log kit. Brad's kit will make your car stiff, runs from the front log all the way back to the rear suspension console. I can jack inside of my car up and the back, and lift three tires off the ground. It also only twists about 1/8" That was with a Roll bar, and petty bar installed. Have not tried it with out the roll bar and petty bar.
You could also go full steel top, or bolt down your fiberglass top, and add re-enforcments to that to to help out.
I checked a 944 out, 18ga metal, and very similar design to the 914 A-pilars. though the Gas had a re-enforcment added to the lower A-pilars.
You can also build a box section going down the center of the chassis. Think Lotus back bone, very strong, and can be made very light.
You are on a very slippery slope.
BTW, LS3 excellent choice
CHASSIS STIFFENING: Front Hoop/Door Bars
In keeping with the "hide as much as I can" approach, I bent up my front hoop (if something 9" tall qualifies!) and started trial fitting.
No, that isn't the real footing. It's just blocking the heater hole...
Initial fitment suggests I have plenty of foot clearance, can remove/install the steering shaft and even run the stock fuse panel, if I wanted (I don't).
It lines up nicely for a bar that will run from the hoop corner, through the heater hose hole and tie into the front shock tower.
Attached thumbnail(s)
CHASSIS STIFFENING: Con'd
Next, I started on the door bar. I haven't landed on the final height. Taller = stiffer, but again, I want it to be as easy as possible to get in and out.
Comprise is the order of the day on this design.
The pics show an overall height of 5" to the top of the bar. At this point, I think that's as high as I'd want to go.
I'm not final on the design in terms of the drops to the long. It'll be two or three, I'm just not sure. Here's a pic of each. (Note that I hadn't yet coped the drop supports in that 2nd pic.)
One of my race car fab buddies is coming over later to take a look and make recommendations.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I don't think you need three verts. My choice would be the outer spacing, the middle is doing the least. The last pic. Remove the middle.
Chris - You don't need to have your bar that high - consider what I designed for you below (and if followed) - never look back.
The center support is important and I would not eliminate it from the design. The gussets at each end upright are absolutely necessary and should be implemented. Call me if you need to discuss.
I too will be re-configuring my cage in the next year or so - converting it to a more "hot rod" style like your car. I won't go any higher than the 4.5" (and probably even lower) from top of rocker to top of bar I've illustrated below when I do it (JMO).
Keep up the good work.
Tony
[attachmentid=579063]
Oh boy. oh boy... is this going to be a full weekend in the shop!
Today, I got the blanks for the inner long stiffener. I got two 10' sections of 16 ga bent with a 7/16" inside radius. This is just a tick tighter than the corner radius of the long itself. I wanted to err on the side of tighter as too big a radius would cause the stiffener to rock on the long.
One leg is 4.5" and other is 7". This will allow me enough material to do the cabin as well as up the long, past the suspension console.
LOTS of ,
and
for the next couple days.
And yep, I'll weld slowly, cooling as I go. But I sure am looking forward to having the floor and firewalls back in!
So, here's what a custom inner long stiffener looks like before the "custom" gets applied. (This has to be in the top 10 for "Most Boring Build-Off Challenge Picture"!)
More pics tomorrow as I start fitting!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'd throw a seat in there 1st and test how much of a PITA it is going to be getting in and out of the car before settling on the height of the horizontal bar.
Fantastic fabrication. Way to go Chris. I'm paying attention here:-)
Something else to consider when designing your structure...Foley was sharing with me recently the importance of designing towards keeping the longs from twisting. However, you have a hot-rod - not a race car. Keep that in mind too so as to not over-build. Clean would be sweet - the less you see and only the necessary installed.
Tony
CHASSIS STIFFENING: Inner Longs
Got started on the inner long stiffener. Since I deleted the heater tubes, I'm going to skin the long "everywhere". And trying to keep it tight. I like the clean look!
Given the way the longs change shape behind the firewall, I'm planning to make each side in two pieces: the part seen here, and the second part for the "up the long" part.
That part will be more complex and I'm going to have to wait til I cut the suspension consoles out to prep for the Tangerine Racing raised pick up kit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Details, details... trim to fit - even the little weep hole thingy.
Yes, it'll be hidden under carpet but I know it's the way I wanted it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fitting the left side... This went way faster as I was able to use the right side as a template. Just laid them back to back, traced then cut. Done and done!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice. You don't need a bunch of tubage. This alone is going to make a big difference.
How are you handling the ebrake?
Another. And if you need to make large holes for things like seat belt mount in an inner long stiffener, use a knock out punch! (Crappy pic, in terms of showing that, I know.)
I treated myself to a set of KO punches from Swag Offroad and they're awesome. I use a HF hand hydraulic pump and wow. Super clean, accurate, etc.
I also got their dimple die set which I plan to employ on some of the tunnel and roll cage gussets. Pics as I get to that.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Artsy shot of the day. I just love the smooth, clean look! Now to mess it all up with hole drilling and plug welding. Ah well, it'll get covered up at some point anyway.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Your picture reminds me of a Fred Flintstone mobile...missing floor and all! As always Chris - the work looks fantastic. You better slow down as most projects take decades - you're going to hurt some feelings at this pace!
Tony
CHASSIS STIFFENING: Lower Firewall
Today's realization is that this really is a jigsaw puzzle. And I've determined I want to have all the pieces before I start putting any of it together.
So... My stiffening plan includes a tunnel from the firewall to the front roll hoop. Since this will tie into the lower firewall and it's all the way out, this is an opportunity to beef up that area of the chassis, too.
I was planning to run a bar across from long to long and sandwich that between the stock inner and outer firewall sheet metal. But with some additional head scratching and input from my race car fab buddy, Martin, I've decided to build a more substantial structure. Similar to what MichiganMat has done on his build.
If you haven't figured it out yet, I love curves. Arches are pretty strong, too.
Roll bender to the rescue! This is a different one from the one I used to roll the round tube. It's purpose build for flat/square stock. I got it for free and it saves me buying additional dies for the Swag Offroad roll bender.
So instead of running a straight tube across and running sheetmetal from the upper firewall down to the tube, I'm going to roll a square tube that fits right up against that curved lower edge.
First, I used the curve template tool to capture the radius I need. I was surprised at just how much arch there is.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it's roll, check, roll, check. Manual roll bending 1.5" .095 wall tubes is a pretty good work out, too!
This pic reminded me how fortunate I am to have a high ceiling in the shop.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'm not so confident that I trust my measurements on what to me are the trickier bits. This firewall arch is one of them. I knew the bar would intersect the long in such a way that it was going to require an interesting cut. So I prefer to sneak up these sorts of things using the "measure, cut, trial fit, measure, cut, trial fit" method until I get it where it needs to be, hopefully avoiding the "I cut it three times and it's still too short...!" situation.
Here's the current state of things. The arch is dead on and overall fitment is looking really good.
The lower bar is a simple straight cut. I used one of those laser measuring devices and it was absolutely on the money. I cut the bar to that length and it's nice and snug.
And yes, I will be adding "footings" under all these bars so there will be more trimming.
I'm really happy with how this is turning out!
Attached thumbnail(s)
In the pics above, the rear floor is just held in place with a floor jack to help locate the lower bar.
Now, it's on to making up some bracing for the lower firewall area, removing the tunnel and fabbing the rest of the floor supports. Not sure how much more I'll get done this weekend but I'm feeling pretty good about how this stage is going.
Chris,
I like it. One word of caution; however, don't do anything that is permanent until you can fit the drivetrain in place. Too much structure, in place and done with will be difficult to re-do down the road (psychologically).
I'd suggest you take a break from anything relating to the lower fire wall at this point and focus on installing the entire driveline to achieve the most forward positioning of the transaxle as possible. To get the angles absolutely correct - the firewall will need to be modified. Now is the time to do that. Have I made myself clear enough???
I'm really only dealing with one issue at this point - CV angles. If you are patient, you can remove this from the table. All the best.
T
Suspension porn! Got my trailing arms back from Chris at Tangerine Racing:
stiffened, gussets, 911 e-brake assembly, hub-centric Carerra hubs, Elephant bushings, etc.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Damn right those are slick...Foley does excellent work! My struts head up to TR tomorrow to raise the spindles (plug for Chris - he CAN raise the spindle hieght on the tappered BOGE struts). Thanks Chris for the hi-jack!
Tony
Oh wow our builds are very close, I like what your doing keep it up!
Following.
Thanks for sharing.
Wow the build is looking great. I really liked your curve template. Keep up the excellent work.
Engine & Trans: Mock Up
November activities commence with some new stuff: Engine and trans mock up install!
LS3/Boxster 6 set ups create pretty high CV angles and in detailed conversation with Tony (Cracker), not to mention his subtle hinting a few posts back , I'm taking his advice and mocking up the drive train before finalizing my firewall mods.
As you know, I have Tony's "old" LS3 engine. He used his considerable Southern charm and talked me into buying it. (OK, not much taking into required!). I figured it would save some time as it had already been proven in a 914 install, the intake was already flipped, it had low miles and I'd seen/heard video of it running.
Next, I purchased the Renegade Hybrids LS kit and their 6-speed kit. This was all maybe about a year ago. But after all that time, today was the first time I unpacked everything. It was like Christmas!
Gotta say, the Renegade stuff is really nice. Fit and finish is impressive.
I didn't install the flywheel and clutch as this phase is all about determining clearances and deciding if I want to do things like move the motor forward to, at least partially, address the CV angle.
Engine, meet Trans. Trans, Engine!
Attached thumbnail(s)
As I'm looking at this wild set up, I leaned up against the car... and felt something moving...
The car was trembling! But I have to admit, I don't know if it was from excitement or fear!
I've not spent much time around 'Merican power and I have to say, this thing looks fast just sitting there.
What in the world will it be like to drive?
I am so motivated to work on this project!!!
Attached thumbnail(s)
All that tooling in your shop I am just
No get back to it get that engine in there, and figure this stuff out. I want to see this at Okteenerfest I know long haul, but you could go for the Iron Butt award.
It was a frustrating weekend in that I didn't complete what I thought I could. I wanted to get the drive line mocked in but it quickly became apparent I would need some additional jacking capabilities.
But let's start off with this: I'm claiming the record. Not only is my 914 on jack stands, so are my engine and trans!
Attached thumbnail(s)
So the only progress to report for this weekend is that I've fabbed up a jack that should allow me to handle the drive train by myself.
Credit to AndyS for the basic design. I went a little overboard on strength but it's the material I had.
So if anyone asks, you better believe "I know Jack!"
Attached thumbnail(s)
And after all this hard work, I'm adding a little comic relief.
Here's the welding seat I built. Quite comfy with the full suspension!
And yes, that's an exhaust tip from an MV Agusta.
As my wife likes to point out, I'm the only person she knows who needs a muffler on his chair...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Amazing how compact an LS motor is!
Nice work Chris! You are making amazing progress! I'll have to come back out and take a look.
Something else that just came to mind Chris...if you move the drivetrain further forward you may need to slot the trans mounts. Before I forget...
T
PS: I like the welding seat - spring!
So... the good/bad news is that this week I had my 2nd skin cancer surgery.
A 30 mm x 23mm section of my left cheek removed. Good news is it's gone, bad news is that for a week I'm not supposed to lift more than 15 lbs or do anything that gets my heart rate up. This will limit my planned weekend progress re: fitting the drive train.
I'll just have to do something "light weight". Fine. I'll make some carbon fiber trim panels! I've always liked the Singer treatment where they cover and paint the longs and tunnel in body color so I've decided to do that, too.
The simplest thing to do was to use one of the stiffening blanks as the mold.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have a bit of 50" wide, 2x2 twill weave left over from when I was doing all the motorcycle parts. Perfect width to make a long cover!
This is the "composite station". I found a giant self healing mat that you see at fabric stores. You can use razor cutters to slice the material and the mat couldn't care less. Very cool.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A little mold release wax and PVA, then 2 layers of carbon and one of fiberglass and I'll be set!
This is just a simple wet layup vs vacuum bagging. I have all the vacuum bagging tools but for something like this, that will likely be painted, this is quicker and less costly.
You think it's boring watching paint dry? Try watching epoxy cure!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And before you ask, yes, these covers are purely esthetic and therefore, break my Cardinal Rule of Composites:
Using carbon fiber to ADD weight!
But hey, with 430 hp, what's a few ozs?
So, fresh out of the mold with a bit of trimming, may I present: one carbon fiber 914 longitudinal cover blank!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sweet, Chris...I can certify that you won't notice the extra weight!
T
A couple of pics to give you the idea.
I may have to leave them in raw carbon. Remember, it'll have this treatment on the custom tunnel, too. I kinda like it!
I played around and fitted it on both sides, just to get a feel.
Memo to self: REMEMBER to make the other one a mirror image in terms of the direction of the weave... That's why I didn't make one long piece. It's all about the little details.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Well this was a "long" weekend!
Got both carbon long covers done and drilled the stiffeners in prep for installation.
Having installed an Engman kit in another car, I have a new appreciation for parts that come with all the holes in them.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fantastic work Chris.
I like your carbon fiber idea. I just may shamelessly steal it.
Before I install the long stiffeners, I need to close all the heater tube holes that are no longer needed as well as address the hand brake cut out. So this evening I fabbed up all the pieces to get a bit of a head start on the weekend's work.
For the hand brake area, I used a section of the long stiffener blank and trimmed it to fit. These are just sitting for the pic, not fully fit. All these filler pieces will be flush with the long surface so as to give me full contact under the entire length of stiffener!
Boring, I know. But necessary.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The ebrake void I get. But, don't bother welding sheet metal into the oval holes if you are putting that badass long overlay on. The ebrake shape void into the long is a compromise, but holes aren't so much when you are overlaying such a strong piece.
Well, if Rand is concerned I'm overdoing it re: stiffening, this may just send him over the edge!
"While I'm in there", I figured "why not?" and fabbed up this simple support for the hand brake filler. Even drilled if extra weight savings. (I want to be like like Rudy Curbandgutter when I grow up! )
This actually turned out to be a tricky/fun part to fab. I had to get it measured and fitted so that it would support the filler in line with the top and sides of the long. Lots of fit, cut, fit, grind, straight edge, trim, fit, straight egde. But it turned out nicely and supports the stiffener exactly as planned. You'd think I actually knew what I was doing!
So here's today's progress. All this just so I can FINALLY install the long stiffeners...
Attached thumbnail(s)
No concerns, lol. Just banter.
Major milestone! Got the engine and trans mocked in!
The throttle body isn't installed (clearly) so now it's time to formalize plans for mods to the trunk to get the needed clearance. I've got a couple different ideas and I need to choose one pretty soon.
But for now, I can finish the lower firewall and get the floor installed knowing I have all the space needed.
I've been feeling a bit stuck but after today, it's full speed ahead. A good feeling.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow, well done Chris!
With the trans located, I could verify the shifter cable length and order up the Numeric shifter and cables. Gotta say, I think it sure is pretty.
And I got a Black Friday deal on the shifter/cable package!
Hope to get the firewall and floor bracing mocked in over the coming holiday weekend.
Attached image(s)
OK, even I'm getting tired of pictures of this part of the car! I took today off and got the long stiffeners screwed in place and all set for welding. Then I figured I may as well beef up the foundation for the firewall arch and rear floor cross brace so I fabbed up a set of 90 degree bent 'pads'.
First step was to cut them using the plasma table. A few quick measurements and about a minute with the drawing program and I have the blanks. The hydraulic unit that powers the tubing bender has dry break connectors that plug into the H press.
Position the blanks and hit the Go button!
It all makes quick work of making and shaping these one-off parts.
The goal is that by the end of the weekend, I'll have the stiffeners and firewall frame welded in. Ideally, the floor will be at least partially in. Fit, cut and screwed in place for welding, if all goes well.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A little holiday video of the H press in use bending the support plates.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRBt1pYlS-I
Some of this fab work isn't the most exciting but it needs doing. Tony (Cracker) has suggested moving the engine as far forward as possible to improve the CV angles. The stock engine mounts allow for a bit of movement but not as much as is actually possible. All I need is a set of custom mounts.
Plasma table to the rescue again! 1/4" plate cut to shape. Next I position the drive train where I want it, mount these plates and transfer punch the Renegade engine mount hole location.
The trans mount has some slots that I may be able to lengthen but I suspect there isn't enough material. It's a multi-part mount so if need be, I'll have to make new rear tabs that are 1" or so longer.
It's the sort of mod that will improve reliability so I think it's worth the effort.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It is very easy to push your mounts forward in the stock -4 mount brakes if that is what you are using.
My optimism regarding how much I'd get done this weekend was, well, optimistic.
I was only able to get the stiffeners welded in and the welds ground. Took WAY longer than I expected.
I did get the lower fire wall support pads fit and welded in and the upper brace fit and ready for welding.
CHANGES OF PLAN:
1. I'm tossing those motor mount plates in favor of modifying the Renegade motor mount. It has an offset at the ends to allow for the use of the stock engine mount location while pushing the engine back to clear all the stock sheet metal.
I've decided to modify the ends of the mount to move the mounting points to be in line with the mount. That'll get me a bit more than an inch and I think it's a tidier modification.
2. I'm also tossing the existing front hoop in favor of a taller one that will sit in a different location. It'll be way easier to show pics than to explain it. I hope to get the new hoop bent up this week.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Stiffeners look great, Love the firewall stiffener!!
Looking good Chris!
I treated the project to an early Christmas present! Ordered a set of GTS Le Mans seats done up like these: grommets, 5-point belt set up. I went with the oval headrest (vs the one pictured or the one that comes standard with the Le Mans)
I added heaters, too. Gotta keep SWMBO happy, don'cha know.
They are due to arrive end of January. And the rumors are true: Stefan is GREAT to work with, as others have pointed out.
OK, so I also have ulterior motives. I want the roll cage bar that runs from the main hoop to the door bar to match the angle of the side bolster. So I "NEEDED" to get the seats!
Plus, I'll just run them in the '74 DD until I get this one running.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Attached image(s)
The firewall arch installation is FINALLY underway!
I have a TIG machine but:
I the spirit of full disclosure, this beautiful welding is thanks to my buddy Martin, mentioned earlier. He's a master fabricator who designed and build ProStock motorcycle chassis while working at Kosman. He's done all sorts of crazy cool projects... Anyway, we collaborate on various things and he said "Hey, you have a TIG machine. I'd be happy to do the welding on your cage tubes...", I didn't think too long before taking him up on it!
I'll continue to do all the other welding but I have to say, this has me looking forward to when I'll have time to learn and practice TIG. Until then, it's Martin on the final cage welding!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Cheater, cheater, apple eater!
Looks very nice Chris...just make sure I fit!
Tony
Nice. So great to see a good fish scale weld after all the straight run blobbing that's so common.
Love those seats. Those are the ones I'm thinking of using as well. Those grommets really add a classic look to the car. I'd like to sit it them before buying though. Maybe I may make a trip out there and see your build as well.
Dang. You must have house elves too. Very clean & i'm a little late to the party (jealous of the shop & your tig-welding elf) but I use cold rolled galvanized sheet metal when ever I can. Bitch welding (Maybe Martin can help here too) but no corrosion behind panels & overlaps ever again. FabFab.us - I've used a LOT of sheetmetal, all cold rolled
Lower Fire Wall:
I test fit the motor in the "moved forward 1.5" position and the harmonic balancer was thiiiiiiiiiis close to where the lower fire wall cross beam sits. So I opted to play it safe and clearance the beam in the spirit of "better to be safe than... have two different parts trying to occupy the same space!"
A bit of and
then some
and the beam can never say "Hey man, would you give me my space!?!?"
It should be fit and welded in this weekend!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Trust me...it is worth the effort.
Tony
Slowly making progress. Before I can install the roll bar, I need to reinforce the top of the long, then, in the tradition of "if more is good, too much is just enough", I'm plating in the engine mounts. I'll also add more once I get to installing the Tangerine Racing raised suspension kit.
For now, while it's not final fitment, this will give you an idea of what's planned.
It took most of the day to measure, cut, fit, bend, etc., but I did get both sides done.
Tomorrow, the lower fire wall beam and braces will be final welded.
I like it!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Best laid plans...
Didn't get the welding done that I'd planned. I did get the lower cross beam in place and partially welded in. The fun part was that because I want as much room for the motor to be moved forward, I located that lower beam a bit further forward than the upper, curved one. Those of you who paid attention in geometry class know what fun it was to get the uprights to fit well! They lean back and the top has to account for the curve.
It took about 367 fit, grind, fit, grinds to get them done but - they're done!
The driver side is (currently) offset to ensure no interference with the alternator. I say "currently" because I'm waiting to complete the mods to the front engine mount so I can fit the drivetrain in it's relocated position before final welding the uprights... just in case.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And that's not all I got done over the weekend: I was able to bend up the new front roll hoop as well as final fit the rear roll hoop. Also welded in the rear hoop pads.
Pics of all this in a couple days.
Making progress...!
Beautiful work!
Chris, you are an artist. Enjoying the progress you are making.
To move the motor forward, I opted to modify the ends of the Renegade engine mount. As delivered, the bosses on the end are set forward of the cross bar by ~1.5".
Here's a pic of the mount, as delivered from Renegade.
Attached image(s)
So lop off those bosses, make new ones and line it all up with the cross bar.
It'll need a gusset so I used a knock-out punch and dimple die to fab up a suitable part.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the main hoop is final fit and ready for welding!
I wanted to get it as tight to the fire wall as possible so I needed to relieve the top "corner" of the fire wall to get the bar to sit back at the proper angle. No one will ever see this area once the car is built but that "corner" area is essentially reversed from the stock shape.
I used a scrap piece of roll bar material and slowly hammered it into the top of the fire wall area until the bar fit as desired.
I'm not going to run a back pad so I removed the 4 tabs that the back pad clips into to get that last little bit of clearance. There's about 1/8" clearance between the bar and the firewall.
I'm developing an appreciation for why custom builds cost so much. Not that I'm highly skilled or efficient, but the work needed to get the hoop to sit back about a 1/2" (relieve the fire wall then grind the footing of each side of the hoop to the correct angle) took me the better part of the day.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's all fitting just as planned. I how the roll bend of the hoop matches the curve of the window and how the hoop all but disappears.
It'll really disappear once I patch in the fire wall around each side. Can't hardly wait!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Amazing work Chris. It's going to be a rocket ship. BTW that dash looks a little tired..
Sweet work Chris. Really nice. You are kickin it out!
Did I say I wasn't efficient? Well, turns out I thought I should check to be sure my fabulous gussets would work... They wouldn't. They need to be flat for the first ~3" to clear the engine mount on the chassis. So that earlier work is throw-away. My own dang fault but, oh well.
So, I opted to design up the new gussets and cut them on the plasma table. The trellis look is more in keeping with the theme I have planned for the car so it's out with the holes and in with the triangles (ish). Another part of the car that will go unseen by essentially everyone but I do like these better than the first design.
That existing bracket is the electric water pump mount. I figured I'd just tie into it.
I hope to have it welded tomorrow.
Then it's on to the transmission mounting brackets and updating them to address the 1 1/2" forward position. I have what I think is a pretty good design. More on that in the next few days.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I applauded your effort,, and follow it ,,my question is ...Roll bar,,why not like this but just tall enough for a top..its my next roll bar.. right behind the latch..
Attached image(s)
Because it sticks out like a sore thumb? I appreciate it when the original lines are preserved. (I know, aesthetics go out the window with race cars because function first, but if they don't have to, all the better.) His car is going to be plenty stiff. Are you concerned with rollover protection beyond the stock hoop? (I know, I'm full of opinions, but I ask because I want to learn.)
That bar is at a functional height due to a safety standard. Damn with originality if its not legal and not safe if not legal. Many race cars are driven at speed with non-compliant upper roll hoops (which equals stupid in my book).
Nice work Chris! Make sure I fit - I want to take it for a spin this Summer! No breaks for you...
Tony
Do I have ADD? Maybe. Today, for sure. Too many things going at once! After I cut the gussets, I got distracted by the main hoop again.
I can't get the hoop into place with the final interior sheet metal in place - the shape of the hoop and angle it has to be at to be fit into the car don't allow it.
Before the hoop can be welded in, I have to fab a bunch of pieces of sheet metal that will be slipped onto the hoop, slid out of the way while it's set in place and welded in. Then all the sheet metal will slid into place to be welded.
It's hard to explain but maybe this series of pics will help.
This is the early fab and fitting of how I plan to close in the hoop. I punched and dimple died that top piece and started messing with rolling the other piece and using the bead roller to form the flange.
I'll use a combination of fabricated pieces and some of the stock firewall from the parts car. So at this point, it's really at the "see how this fits/looks, try again if I don't like it" stage. By the way, I don't like this. It'll be MUCH tidier, the stamped elements in the fire wall will terminate in an attractive way, etc.
But you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
its all good , I did not I'mply for it to stick out like a sore thumb , just integrated into the body ,similar to the pic but at the og body height with his small bend radius it would blend in...no race car...
Chris, so you're not going to use that good-looking roll-bar? You're engine bar (cross-bar) looks really nice too!
Finished the modification of the engine mount - gusset final welding complete!
I plan to get everything modified, installed and get the car running then blow it apart and do the powder coating, etc. So for now, I'll just rattle can primer parts like this.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With the engine mount complete, it's time to deal with the 1.5" position change on the trans mounts. The good news is that the Renegade mount is made of multiple parts and thankfully, their design allows for a pretty simple solution: make a couple spacers. 1 1/2 " spacers, but spacers, nonetheless.
Nothing like finding a block of aluminum that happens to be the exact right thickness! Got lucky on that one, for sure.
So here's an action shot of the worlds most kick-ass band saw making short work of roughing out said spacers. It cut through that block "like butta..."
Yes, this spacer means there's a big increase in the leverage on the mount. But fear not! The Boxster trans has a mount on the end that I'm going to use to add a 3rd trans mount. In all, the drive train should be well secured in it's new, forward position.
I hope to get it test fit in the next day or so. Once I've verified all the clearances, I'll go after closing in the fire wall and floor. I'll claim MAJOR MILESTONE at that point.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With solid progress on the mounts, I went back to working on the main hoop fitment.
I'm sure I'm not alone in laying awake at night, running through "... now how am I gonna make this work...? If it have to make tab A fit into slot B, first I'd need to..."
You know what I'm taking about, don't you?
So, after many sleepless hours, I figured if I split the hole the hoop goes through, I'd be able to finish weld the area that will end up being behind the hoop. This does 2 things:
1. it perfectly locates the hoop every time I remove it / replace it to do whatever needs doing, and,
2. it allows me full access to metal finish every bit of welding I need to do to close it in!
Again, no one but me may ever see this part of the car but I want it to look as factory as possible. So far, I'm happy with how this part is turning out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Totally enjoying your build thread. It's so great to see thoughtful fabrication, attention to detail, and... quality welds! (Nice scales instead of straight blobs laid on top, or worse, what I jokingly call "eagle crap" lol)
Nothing like being on vacation to get things done! The spacers are nearly done. See how the trans mounts are slotted? When I test fit the drive train, the bolts end up tight against the end of the mount slot so I'm going to mill ~1/4" off the spacers. Better all around with that minor adjustment.
Plus, I'll dress the corners and probably add some relief pockets to lighten then up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And this will start to give you an idea of the new mount I want to add to address the additional leverage those spacers give the Renegade trans mounts.
The Boxster trans has a mount at the end. I'll either use that by punching a hole and adding a boss that will support this 3rd mount or I'll fab up a new mount.
Then, when I build the rear part of the cage/stiffening, I'll run bars from the shock mounts, past the stock trans mount cross bar and out to support this mount.
I'll drop supports to the stock trans mount, too. More on this as I get to it.
Boy, I say that alot. But then, there's a lot to get to! But it's coming along.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here are the money shots: What does moving the drive train forward 1.5" look like?
Well, the harmonic balancer/alternator belt will live juuuuust inside the engine side outer fire wall! That's the rear floor pan in the stock location. So a couple key points:
1. You can see that there's no way this would have worked without messing with the lower section of the fire wall.
2. Good thing I just happened to add an arched upper fire wall support! If I'd opted for a straight bar, I'd have had interference.
And there are a couple spots on the upper fire wall that I did have to relieve:
1. at the left side valve cover and
2. a small adjustments to provide extra clearance for the Renegade water block. It clears, but only just, so I figure better safe than sorry.
But best of all, this is exactly how it was planned to fit. And it did!
OK, I sorta lied. Turns out, I didn't HAVE to add that clearance crescent in the lower cross bar. But to be fair, right before that was welded in, I bumped it forward about 1/4", "just in case". Again, better safe than sorry.
The only concession is that I'll need one small access hole to access the allen bolt when adjusting the alternator belt tension. I've already verified I can get the belt on and off, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, the rear floor goes in and it's on to the custom floor bracing and tunnel!
Pick up the pace Chris...you are obviously taking your time!
I knew it would be tight but...
T
Love your work. Are you planning on adding lateral bracing in the open area of the lower firewall using sheet metal and bracing or only sheet metal? Loving the progress so far. I'm progressing on mine but I'm waiting until I reach a "milestone" before I post again. BTW loved how you slipped the sheet metal around your hoop so that you can weld it in later. Excellent thinking and craftsmanship!
Time to mill the spacers. Here's an action shot of the flycutter doing its thing , the finished products
and the new spacers installed.
Prior to resizing them, it was a bit of work to get everything lined up and the hanger bolts in place. Now, both sides slide in just like that!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I know I caused you allot of extra work but I guarantee you - it was the right call to take it on! Merry Christmas to you and Lori!
PS: All of that "spacer" weight might slow the car down a bit...
T
Today was about closing up the main hoop and fire wall.
I started with this little spot above the fire wall arch.
First, cut a paper template (and remember to account for the flanges!)
Then I used the bead roller to fold the flanges.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the template and the finished piece.
It's funny, I talked with Tony (Cracker) today and we laughed about how these build threads show all the pics but there's no real evidence of just how much work it takes to get from what was to what now is.
All told, this little piece took me about 2 hours to make.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I was feeling pretty good about fabbing sheet metal so I figured I may as well get started on the inner fire wall.
Template, metal shears, fit, fit, fit and...
Well, OK... There will be some more fitting. But it's looking good so far.
Next is laying out and rolling in some sort of bead to help it resist oil canning and to add some visual appeal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good!!!!
That extra clearance for the pulley will just make it easier to replace the belt...
That looks really good Chris! You are very talented at fabrication! Fred and Wilma are going to love it!
Did the final trimming and fitting of the lower fire wall. The electric shears are awesome and make quick work of getting a clean cut right to the mark.
Got the final flange bent across the top. Happy with the fit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here a shot of the fire wall and how it's fit with the little filler piece made earlier. Almost looks like I know what I'm doing...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next I started on the boxing in of the main roll hoop, this time on the engine side.
I made paper templates to figure the location of the holes then used the dimple die to pretty them up.
These slide up out of the way to allow for the hoop to be welded to the pads that are welded to the longs. Then these slide into place and get welded in as part of boxing in the engine mounts.
Can't tell you what a relief it is to fit the second on and actually have it all fit!
Remember, this is the first time I've tried virtually any of this sort of fabrication and I hope it encourages anyone who's thinking of giving it a go. I just take my time, measure 100 times and only post pics of when it actually works out!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very nice I wish I could weld like that.
Continuing work on fabbing the parts needed to close in the roll hoop. I made up the front 1/2 of the "cap" on the passenger side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I started on the final part. Here's a look at how I approach making the paper template. Once this is fitting as desired, it's transferred to 18 gauge and formed / trimmed til it fits. Easy, no?
Well, except then I get to (try and) make a mirror image for the other side. That's always the "interesting" part...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The ADD kicked in again and I got distracted with other areas of the car. I've been debating what to do re: keep vs lose the trunk. It would appear I've decided!
If you've seen Tony's car, you'll know why I think of this modification as partial "Cracker Replica". Imitation being the sincerest form, and all that.
It certainly eases access to, um, everything!
And yes, there will be roll bar/chassis stiffening added.
This will never be mistaken for a sleeper but I do want to be able to store the top so while I still have trimming to do, I will leave a lip all around the edge as I plan to make a removable "trunk tray/liner" to provide a least some protection for the top.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That darned ADD! Once the trunk was out, I played with an initial design for the console. This essentially gives away the styling cues I'm going with throughout the interior: a very industrial, trellis, open architecture-y look that leaves all the mechanical elements exposed.
A looooooong way yet to go but it gives you the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That does look familiar...glad to have you aboard! After seeing your fabrication skills - I am very much looking forward to seeing the greatly enhanced "Cracker Replica" version.
Just make sure the cockpit fits a 6'5" frame (Um, drivers side...)!
Happy new-years to you Chris!
Tony
I don't see how this machine will remain earthbound.......
I did the final trimming of most of the main open area, leaving that lip for the removable cover I'm planning. I still have to remove the front of the trunk wall above and outside of the suspension consoles...
Then I started on fabrication on the stiffeners for between the consoles.
Another arch... Imagine that. The top bar will also serve as the point from which a bracket will extend forward to support the stock engine cover latch.
I'll end up plating around the consoles so neither of these are quite where they'll end up. But close enough for me to determine what I want to do. I have an idea for a panel that will sit between them. It'll add some additional strength as well as visual appeal!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That cutting up and gifting the pieces from the other car took up a bunch of your fab time.
Looking great though and you are further along then I am.
[/quote]
Totally agree with Ben. However Chris your build is mind blowing.
The shifter console structure is a work of art.
Truly unique approach tying the chassis together in the manner you have.
It will be very cool to see this 914 in motion!
Did the final removal of the trunk and up around the suspension consoles. Then I started fabrication of the plates that will reinforce the consoles in prep for installing the stiffeners.
Man, doing this stuff takes forever... but it REALLY opens things up and allows for optimal location of the rear part of the stiffening bars.
I have an idea for the trans mount cross member, too. Should be pretty neat looking and add some strength.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's raining in northern CA...
This is our back field. That's about 2.5 ' deep.... and it's flowing.
Kinda scary.
Makes for a good day to immerse myself in more fab work...
Attached thumbnail(s)
With the removal of the trunk sheet metal complete, we get to see a part of our cars I've rarely seen: The point where the long stops and sorta has a wimpy tie into the rear shock towers.
Gotta do something about that.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So I fabbed up a 1/8" plate that I bent and trimmed to fit. Here's an almost final fit.
I'll cap this off with...
Attached thumbnail(s)
... a cap! Again, not the final fit, but you get the idea.
I think I'll box this from the inside edge down to the bottom of the long, making kind of a triangulated box.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Any thought to some amphibious car features for the Beast? Might be handy if you need to run to town!
Great progress....
Happy New Year Chris!
Love following your progress on the car. You weren't kidding when you said it was going to be "top notch"!
Sandy and I would love to come up and see the car this spring.
I started messing with the intake. In running the Mass Airflow Sensor (MAF), I have to follow a few rules about where the sensor has to be, relative to the throttle body. I need a minimum of 10 inches from the throttle body, six inches of straight tube, the sensor has to be set at between a 9:00 - 3:00 orientation...
So, a bit of a puzzle and a bit of mystery?
A puzzle is when you have all the pieces and "just" have to figure out how they fit.
A mystery is "profound, inexplicable, or of secretive quality or character."
I really do have a bit of both going on here: I have some pieces, I have some pieces yet to make.
But I swear, as I start looking at how I'll have to build the intake to meet the above criteria, fit the stiffening bars, run a suitable air cleaner AND make it all fit under the targa top (which needs to somehow still safely store in this area...) ???!?!?!?!?
Well, it's currently a flippin' MYSTERY to me! Certainly, the "secretive quality" part...
But fear not, World. I will solve it.
ps. I'm loving how this is starting to look. That's a 4" intake tube. Small children and pets will need to be careful they aren't sucked in!
Attached thumbnail(s)
...ask the engine - it knows the drill!
T
I live in the South but am from C-A-L-I-!
Regarding the top - mine would fit if I actually wanted it to Chris. My fist LS conversion I did store it in the trunk on factory clips. No biggie.
T
So Southern California, Tony?!
Sorry Chris - last hi-jack + free bump!
Mom from Thousand Oaks; Dad from Bay area; Conceived (weirdly I know) in between on coast. I am an original "Central" Cali dude! Capiche!
Now past my family tree...back to Chris's lame build.
T
Chris,
I've been remiss at commenting on your terrific build. Nice work; well thought out. I look forward to reading more as you progress. Keep up the good work!!
Andys
Feeling boxed in? My rear shock towers are with you!
After a bit more head scratching, I decided to go a different route: I wanted to run one piece of reinforcement from the long up to and around the tower. Since I'm not exactly sure how the removable trunk liner will work, I opted to retain the lip the runs up the tower.
So I sliced a channel for the sheet metal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I made a pattern and fit a piece that slips down into that channel. This is the driver's side, which I just happened to tackle first.
I tacked it in, "persuading" it to wrap the tower, plug welding as I went along.
Then fit and tacked in the top part. It's plug welded, too. I still have to final trim the top part where it wraps the tower. I left it a bit tall for now as I may plate it to the Tangerine Racing raised rear shock towers, once those are installed.
Then I need to add a bottom piece to close in the box and seam weld everything.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Let me back up and show a bit more detail.
Here's the pattern and the trimmed and bent piece, then how it fits before I start tacking and wrapping it around the tower.
Exciting, I know...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Tacked and plug welding my way around. I use a rubber mallet to help get it around the tower. The big clamp sure makes it easy to get the last couple plug welds.
Attached thumbnail(s)
All done and ready for the final trimming before the seams get welded!
Attached thumbnail(s)
High altitude shot of the rough finished rear tower stiffening. This will be LOTS better than stock.
I feel like I made some progress this weekend!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Now I can get on with the bars.
Here's the final design on the cross bracing. I'll add a filler plate between them with some fun/interesting cut outs.
The final shot is proof that I have clearance and can fit the top with the arched upper bar!
I then laid the trunk on and everything clears. Woop, woop!
Now I'll fab up some brackets for those clips that hold the front of the top. I also need a bracket to locate the hood latch. This part of the car feels like it's finally coming together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Really enjoying your build Chris, thanks for taking the time to post.
Every time I come visit this thread there is less & less blue car there - gonna be a little sad when you start closing it in - great build tho - Napa Rocket Garage. Gonna have to come up n see Martin about some Mini stuff (he needs a transmission which I may have 4 more tomorrow), then he can tell me how much of the welding is yours...
No weld thru primer on that layer over the suspension tower?
I made up a new top cross bar because of I totally screwed up the angles of the end cuts as I was trying to final fit the first one I'd made. The joy of not using straight material is I had to duplicate the roll bend. Not that big a deal but it's another repeat effort and time spent that really gets me no further along. Ah, well...
Once that was done, I wanted to get some ideas for the filler plate so I made up a paper template. I measured it to get the dimensions for the plasma table's design software. Then I started messing with various design elements.
Attached image(s)
Here's the initial version, ready to cut.
The six little holes running across the middle are 'marker' cuts that simply locate where to drill for the lightening holes - you'll see once it's all done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Result!
It's like cheating. I could never have done this by hand. Well, OK, I could have.
But it would look like crap!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it's trimming to fit all the inevitable nooks and crannies and little details that happened when I plated around the shock towers.
Next, the knock out punches and dimple dies.
And here's V1 of the filler panel!
Yes, the throttle body is off-center. I opted to live with that being the asymmetrical element, rather than something else. I'm toying with making a removable panel that has a tighter fit to the air cleaner tube. We'll see.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This thing will be epic!
That's friggin awesome looking! Nice work Chris!
Mee likey...
T
That is a badass intimidating touch!
Here's a V2 design. No, I won't be applying for a job as a Photoshop operator. All I have is MS Paint. Hey, it works well enough for me to test ideas.
Anyway, V1 had those cut outs that I wasn't sure I liked. Maybe a little too "hot roddy". Lightening holes seem more fitting.
Plus, with a physical example to play with and see from all angles, I decided I wanted to close up around the sides of the intake and get a bit more room under it. You can't see it but there was only about 1/4" - 3/8" clearance on the underside. I don't know how much the motor may move around but I want more room there.
This is one of the "fun" parts about design stuff: When to call it "done" and get on with other stuff that may actually get this car on the road!
At this point, I'll likely go with V2. Time for less and more
and
! Oh, and some day:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Details, details. I don't have a dimple die the size of the of-cut outs that run across the top and bottom. Since I knew I was going to make a new panel, I figured I'd use this as a practice piece. I used he bead roller and tipped in a lip that I was hoping would match the dimples on the holes.
I think I was successful and IMO, without these, it looked incomplete. It's these sorts of things that REALLY finish off the look! I'm loving how this is turning out.
This was just practice and on the final version, I'll notch the corners of the dimples so they wrap the cross bar.
Can't wait to get started on the V2 design! I'm out of metal so the rest of this weekend is going to shop clean up - which is sorely needed.
(And wait 'til you see what's planned for the transmission support!)
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the bead rolled edge. Recently saw a video on how to do it. Did you use the special dies? Coming along great, keep it up.
Chris - maybe I am looking at this wrong but I would like to see that as an enclosed panel...maybe you are doing that anyway. Make a duplicate in reverse and weld the seam. Understand?
T
I like the second one even better!
I did get the shop somewhat cleaned up but the car kept calling "Please work on me!"
I couldn't say no...
Before I weld in the top cross bar, I need to install some support pads. The fun part is the bar lands on the top of the inner fender, right smack on a compound curve.
I could do the 'tack, bend, tack' but I decided to "get fancy". First a bit of history:
Back in the fall of last year, I took a 3-day metal shaping class with Lazze at his place in Pleasanton, CA. It was a very cool class. You need to take it. But be careful: The only down side (as is Lazze's plan, I'm sure )is you come out of the class having used these awesome tools and, if you're me, you get home and obsess about having to have those very same tools. So yes, I treated myself to the bead roller, shrinker/stretcher and English wheel. I have to say, it's reeeeeealy nice stuff.
Back to today: So far, on this build, I've been able to leverage the bead roller and shrinker/stretcher but I've not yet had the occasion to need to use the English wheel. Well, when a compound curve is needed, it's the English wheel to the rescue!
I made up a little curve template, grabbed a piece of scrap and went to town, hoping I'd remember what I learned in class.
Seems like I did. It fits just so!
This may not be much to look at but it's one of the pieces I'm most proud of. Why? Well, you can't fit that small a part in the wheel. I had to "get it right" while this piece was part of a much larger sheet of steel. And I need it to be correctly curved before being able to test fit it. So essentially, I only had one chance to trim it correctly.
And once it's installed, virtually no one will ever notice.
(Now I get to do it again on the other side...! )
Funny... one of my longest posts and it about the smallest piece I'll probably fab.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Panel design, V2. Maybe some day I'll get this design thing figured out a bit better and not have to "build, fit, trim, fit, realize there was a (few) incorrect assumptions and now do it all over again". As much as I like doing all this stuff, it'd be nice to get it right the first time and not build multiple versions.
I guess that's what experience is all about!
Anyway, if you compare V2 to V1, you'll see I changed the 'wings' quite a bit to close a gap between the top edge of the panel and the cross bar. And I moved and changed the shape of the intake tube hole to add a bit more interest. I also changed a couple dimensions so I won't have to do as much trimming/fitting.
I think the holes vs the cutouts will be more in line with the look I'm going for.
Hope to get it cut before the weekend.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow Chris the way you treated that panel was MASTERFUL! Love it man. I was wondering how you were going to get the shear forces to transfer from the top of strut to the lower portion of the strut! Well done!! I tell ya......you're giving me ideas. Looks wicked by the way
You two should just "get a room"...
LOL
T
Really nice work! I like the details.
I changed my mind! (Nothing new there...) I decided that I want to run the console the length of the tunnel, from under the front roll hoop to the firewall, so I started playing with designs.
Here's a reminder pic of the 'shorty' Version 1 again, along with the new design. Version 2 is taller up front to get the shifter to the desired height.
This is just brainstorming as I still need to work out things like where the cup holders will go...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris: Honestly, it looks a little busy (to me). Are all of those "lightening holes" going to be exposed? There can be elegance in simplicity, ehh? Maybe I would like it more as a completed unit...cut it out!
PS: How about adapting a similar design to the rear shock tower panel to the console? Cool as hell and aesthetically tied to other components...you are doing a great (great!) job. These are just my thoughts...pal.
T
Chris you're doing a great job and you did say you want the comments coming right? I'm with Tony, make it a little simpler. Maybe something that has a combination of lightening holes and triangles that reveals a strut form. It seems too ornate. But heck if I had access to that plasma cutter I'd probably make something that looks like bad freeway art......you know like something that could be found in an Aztec pyramid.
Yep, yep, it'll be simpler. And speaking of things one can make with a plasma table, here's a sneak at something I'll be cutting soon.
A 4 foot tall crest! I plan to hang it in my office.
I'm cutting it in layers so the various elements will stand off the background of the crest.
Should be pretty cool. If I can fit it, I'll bring it to the WCR in June!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Please make a second copy for my hauler or shop...I won't charge you for my criticism - even trade!
Tony
I was swamped at work this week so didn't get any after-hours shop time so spent part of today completing V2 of the panel. The plasma table is just so cool!
Here's the panel after trimming/fitting. It looks so much better with the top line following the crossbar arch all the way across.
I'm REALLY happy with how I got it to fit. Nice and tight:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was back to the knock-out punches and dimple dies. I did the same bead rolled tip edge on the large top and bottom openings.
I am so much happier with this design over the first one. The shape of the intake opening, the fact that the opening stays within the panel. Much better.
So I've proved yet again that I need to get a look at things in place on the car vs. on a computer screen. Maybe I'll get better at this. It'd sure be more efficient, both in time and cost.
So if you couldn't tell, I really like this piece.
(Know anyone who wants to buy V1? )
Attached thumbnail(s)
Badass - love it!
T
The stuff you can do with a plasma cutter...
Looks great! I agree the center console is a bit complex but it does look strong
I, too, think that initial console design is messy. Im redoing it and will post once V2 is ready for its debut.
Most of today was spent reorganizing the shop. It had gotten to the point where I could barely get around. Much better now.
So not much to report other than starting to work up the design for the rear trans mount. Having moved the drive train forward, there's more leverage on the existing trans mounts so I want to add the rear mount. Probably not really needed but I like to have a little insurance, just to be sure.
I'm still at the "hmmm, maybe this would work..." stage. These low bars will be triangulated with bars that run from the top are of the shock towers and tie into them at the trans cross brace. It may be that the top bars extend to the rear mount and the low bars tie into them. And these are just pieces I had laying around so it's all up for grabs. As I said, I'm still playing with design while trying to account for things like a removable trunk liner, etc. Fun all around!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Uh oh, this can't be good...
I think I may make panel V3. This one would be aluminum plate cut on a water jet, just like the shorty console plate. It would bolt to bosses welded to the cross bars and shock towers. It'd be a way bigger deal to do but...
I'm thinking I'd back it up with a carbon fiber panel.
Yes, I know I'll eventually need to decide and move on. But this design makes it far simpler for me to seal up the trunk area and keep (most of) the heat away from the intake and top, when it's stored.
We shall see.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Love the flourishes. Shows a confident build.
In planning the rear trans mount, I opted not to use the stock Boxster mount, nice as it was, all cast aluminum and all. It positioned the attachment point high. So I'm playing with designs for a mount that will keep everything under the height of the stock trunk floor's level.
This time, I'm going to try cutting the whole part and folding the sides and top into position for welding.
Attached image(s)
Last night, I cut and folded the rear trans mount. Here it is, before seam welding. And it turned out just like it was supposed to... Thing is, I don't like it. Too bulky, bigger than it really needs to be.
So January closes with another "let's do it differently on the next one!"
At least I'm consistent!
Attached thumbnail(s)
As long as I had the plasma machine fired up, I figured I'd play with a design for load distribution/attaching the lower stiffening bars. These would have sheet metal closing in the tops.
I may mock up a design that uses these pieces on the outside of the bars but where the inner piece runs all the way across between them.
My first thought when I set these in place was "Holy holes, Batman!"
I need to be careful of a couple things:
1. Too much of one design element and,
2. Creating a bunch of nooks and crannies for crap to get into
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the new rear trans mount design. It's more compact and I think looks better, too. Function and form... Win-win!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have most of the rear trunk modification pieces figured out and cut or at least roughed out. Now it's time to permanently install everything. It's turning out that the first piece that has to be welded in is the Tangerine Racing raised rear shock tower kit. So here I go...
First, I have to give a shout out to Chris Foley at Tangerine - great products and even better support. Every time I've called, he's answered the phone and been more than willing to spend as much time as I needed to answer my questions.
VENDOR OF THIS BUILD, for sure!
Anyway, I copied Stephen's (914forme) approach and welded in a disc with a pre-drilled hole just to help. Then it's hole saw away, trying not to have my arms ripped from my body when it grabs.
The only thing I could think once the first one was done was "Well, I'm committed now..."
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'm bouncing around between the shock towers and rear trans mount.
The final design for the mount used a different top piece. Better all around.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Rear trans mount when you have those beefy side mounts seems redundant but hey thats half the fun, right?
Hey Chris I too wonder if that support is required. Regardless though it does look trick. I'm thinking that if your tranny came off a 911 then you probably don't need it. However I'd leave it just cause it looks so good and you can never go wrong in over engineering. Sometimes belts and suspenders are good.
Hey Chris! You fab skills are awesome! I was wondering if you had considered putting one new support "tube" across the width of the trunk about 12" in front of the existing factory structure that the stock trans bolts to? It would be directly above the black bar that is already mounted to your Boxster trans. The tube could be welded to part of the shock towers as well. It would simplify you mounting and maybe save some weight. You could even elminate...dare I say all of the beautiful creations you have between the shock towers. Thats the minimalist me. I know you have a serious amount of time in the mounts/ bracketry . It just seems like that black trans "adapter" bracket is a working too hard for such an amazing custom build. XO brother.
So use the one you made at the rear of the trans and the new cross beam directly over the black bracket. How much support does the stock Boxster or 911 use to hold that trans up?
You might look at a Boxster spare tire. They are tall and very skinny. They are much newer than the collapsible old cracked space saver and are always inflated. I have one in my car if you'd like to try it on for size or have some measurements.
Before I can close up the firewall, I need to add some beading to the panel to prevent it from oil canning and to add some visual appeal. I'm just starting to play with designs.
The left side is, again, maybe to 'hot roddy' so I started thinking about maybe trying to make it look more factory-ish. The lines on the right side are just to give me an idea of how that width would look.
Out comes the trusty laser level (note the professional stabilizing mount! ). I figured I'd start by projecting the shapes on the upper firewall onto the lower area. It's kinda neat that, if I do this, I'll have a nice "V" on the panel - a nod to the LS3!
And, in typical "I didn't really think this through" fashion, since I already bent the flanges, I can't fit this already done-and-fit lower firewall into the bead roller. I'll be making another...
Remember: Pants first, THEN shoes.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the left personally...
T
I'd go with the left side version as well. Otherwise project looks great as usual.
A good buddy of mine brought his new drone (DJI Mavic) over to see how it would behave inside a metal building.
I'll post the "Shop Tour" video in a bit but for now, here's my new favorite pic of my car!
Attached thumbnail(s)
^^ Super cool shot!^^
It's a rare event that I get into the shop during the week but I'm feeling like I'll never make the 9/14 date with a "weekends only" approach.
It feels good to FINALLY be putting things back on this area of the car!
Tonight, it was the Tangerine Racing shock tower kit positioned and tacked in.
As well as setting the angles, I took the time to use a straight edge to align the bolt holes symmetrically from side to side. Again, something no one will likely notice but it's the sort of detail that I think adds up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice! It's looking great! Symmetrical alignment is definitely one of those things that people notice when they're looking at the final product.
Just a question...do Boxster transmissions typically have a rear chassis mount? Putting a rear mount on more or less makes it a totally constrained stressed member in the car which will impart some forces into it as the chassis twists. If they weren't designed for that I just worry about some internal binding. Not sure if this is actually a real concern or not. I know stressed engines can be concerning because of slightly changing bearing and piston/cylinder clearances.
Yes. He is using the factory mount locations on the rear of the case...
Tony
Playing with the next iteration design for what I've come to refer to as the "console plates".
I may cut this design and see how I like it in real life. The trunk stiffening panel started out too hot-roddy, and while I like this new design (top pic) more than the earlier version (bottom pic), this may be a bit too art deco-y.
I'm planning to run no door panels and the early doors have a nice arch element that I'm trying to echo in the plates. "Trying" being the operative word...
This is likely throw away since I won't really know the dimensions I want until I get the seats and shifter mounted. But I enjoy the process and I'll have a better idea of what I want once I get to that point.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the pink version
What's with everyone giving me a hard time about "short"?
I will admit to rethinking the short vs. tall rear shock tower kit. I was going short so I could store the top. Do I really need to store the top?
I know, I'll make my own collapsible top! Sorta like the fold-able early 911 Targa roof. That'd be cool... I've actually been thinking about this for a while as storing the stock top forces a number of design constraints that limit what I'd like to do.
So, a folding top it is. I have an initial design in mind, too.
In the meantime, I've (again) changed the console plate design. V3 has separate front and rear sections. This will allow me to have a narrow(er) rear section between the seats and a wider front area for the shifter, etc. Varying widths open the door to some other, more interesting design elements, too.
Here's the front section. The rear section will bolt on to the end. I like this approach better. Feels like I'm getting close.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That's the direction I'm going with regarding the collapsible roof. I have no choice. I need to get a hold of the 911 collapsible roof and see how we can adapt to work with the 914 seals. Chris if you are compromising your suspension set up to get the roof to store in the back I say don't compromise. Make your suspension to your liking and then make the roof work later. It makes it more interesting. Keep up the excellent work.
it looks to be ok but just design the interior bits with: elbows, shifting and clearance in mind. I have my battery mounted against the firewall there so you are most likely ok with the new console design. looks good.
T
You could also relocate the damper mounts lower on the trailing arms add a little travel. It'll change the motion ratio slightly, but also let you go with the shorter tower kit and fit a solid targa top in the trunk. It is a bit of work since the mounts are a pretty integral part of the trailing arm. I'm thinking of going that route just because I really want to be able to keep the stock top in the trunk.
Hmmm... Not sure I like it now that I see it against the door. I'm going to update it to better reflect those shapes. Maybe scale it down a bit, too.
I think I'll name this car "It".
Short for "iterations"
Attached thumbnail(s)
metal roof solves your issue
The door shapes aren't that pleasing to the eye. Maybe you should make a panel for the door that matches your console piece.
I can't finalize the console plates until I get the floor in, the new tunnel installed and the seats mounted. So this weekend was focused on that.
Old tunnel out. Here's a rough fab of a plate to help distribute the loads from the tunnel tubes.
Boring, I know.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Cool. Are you dropping the floor anywhere?
T
My seat has a car around it! First time in over a year. It's just mocked in to help me get an idea of how much room I have (and where I have it) for the various things I need to get from the front to the rear:
- water lines
- brake line
- hydraulic clutch line
- electrical
- shifter cables
And I'm planning not to run the water lines under the car.
A friend stopped buy and I explained what I was trying to do. He looked at me for a long moment and said:
"Have you considered wireless cooling?"
He's a real funny guy.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I love it when a plan comes together. How's this for a nice fit?
I'll claim this was all carefully calculated in my design specs... NOT.
Totally unplanned but come on, what are the odds?
I set the seat in place and noticed just how well my roadster cage hoop works with the stock seat. Too bad I'm not using them! Ah well.
Attached thumbnail(s)
delete
To quote David Bowie: "Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes..."
I think this is the winning version. I like the trellis look more than the holes.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the holes better...honestly. Its your build though...
PS: The REASON I like the dimple die holes is it looks more legit to me - the other looks like a plasma cutter made it - the holes look like it was crafted - more or less. I am being serious.
T
I like 'em both. Which one fits the 914 you're creating? Which one are you most proud of?
The more I look at your cad/plasma work the more I want to say keep it simple and light. I like minimalist on a build like this. I'd love to see you keep as much metal as possible OUT of the design without sacrificing strength. Clean and functional before intricate extras that add weight without contributing to strength.
Not criticizing, just thinking out loud. Adding a pic below... Outside the green makes structural strength sense. Inside the red box, I'm not sure it adds anything except visual noise?
Just keep doing what you're doing and make it your own. Thanks for entertaining feedback, but do your thing. We are all salivating at your amazing work.
Anything you come up with, and eventually settle on, is going to be killer. Hey, I am just a guy...and that means multiple-holes in the rear catches my eye *da truth*!
T
AAAAAAAnnd... into the gutter we go...
No, please don't. If your mind goes there, I understand. But let's keep this clean and back on track to Chris' build.
Hey...I was just trying to get Rudy to show up!
T
Hah. He'll be here. If there's a good gutter to run into, it's Curb's.
Zoiks, not sure what that was about but let's get back on track, shall we?
I need to make some progress on final fitment items like the seats and pedals. I took today off work to start on the tunnel mods. The base of the tunnel will essentially mimic the stock one. I'm using 1" x 1.5" tube set on edge. I'll drill holes where the original tunnel spot welded to the floor and plug weld these runners in place.
Started laying things out and will be working on how I'll deal with that small step up in the floor. And there are places where I want to shape these runners to the contours that are stamped in the floor.
So, here we go.
Oh, and the pedals are just sitting there to give me a basic idea of how they may fit, what I'll need to do to brace the floor under them, etc.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Measure, slice a suitable chunk from the tube, bend it and weld the three sides. Dress the weld and... one side done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's another example of why I'm never going to make money doing this:
I needed a piece that angled up from the driver's side runner up to the load plate.
This required a compound set of cuts - one to get the "up" angle, the other to get the "over" angle. Then, because of the "up" I needed to get the length right so the top of this piece intersects with the runner at the right spot, Then it's time to trim the lower edge so it ends up at 1.5" tall at the angle so it mates with the front of the runner...
And I must say, it's dead nuts on!
I'm pretty impressed with myself. Yes, I still have to trim the other end but that's a single angle so no worries there.
That said:
What you aren't seeing are the other 3 attempts/fails and 2 hours of "practice" that preceded the final piece.
It seems like every piece I make has something "special" about it that requires me to learn something new or use a rarely used skill. Don't get me wrong, I still love it. I just hate wasting the materials, consumables and time.
I guess that's "experience", huh?
Attached thumbnail(s)
That's nothing.
You should see the challenges my dad faces every day with his Ryan restoration.
In many cases he doesn't have a sample, and the blueprints don't match pictures of original parts.
His fuel tank took more than 250 hours of labor, as well as an extra sheet of aluminum.
Mocking in some other parts, just to get a feel for where things may sorta go. It's starting to look like a place I'd want to spend some time!
If only we could build with cardboard...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I confess that I succumbed to peer pressure. I just couldn't take people using the term "short" in relation to any of my stuff.
Tangerine Racing came through with an instant shipment of just the tall (long?) tower pieces! Thanks Chris!
The plan is to get them fully installed tomorrow.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Teaser shot. Where, oh where, do you suppose the exhaust is going to exit the car?
Out the top of the trunk, 918 style?
Through the rear panel?
Or do I have something else in mind...?
(If I've shared my plan with you, don't spill the beans, please.)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Peanut gallery: I hate to have to tell you Chris but your exhaust manifolds are wrong side up...
T
Well... I FINALLY completed what I said I'd complete in the time I said I'd complete it.
The goal was to get the shock tower tops in. And they are in !
Here're a couple action photos of the event.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And, not only are the towers in, so are the top cross bar load pads and the cross bar!
Major milestone.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Now I am really impressed - you can weld and take pictures at the same time!
Looks great Chris!
T
Tig! Some high dollar welding there!
I really hope you build your exhaust similar to a 918 I love that look in a mid engine car.
When words collide:
I hope I don't offend the fabrication gods by running one of my MIG welds up against one of Martin's TIGs. Maybe not quite as pretty, but I am getting better.
This is the lower fire wall crossbar and was one of those "out of position" welds - laying on the ground, one arm wrapped around the long, triggering with my left hand and guiding the tip with my right, arms all akimbo... but I'll take it.
As I improve, I keep turning the MIG up to hotter settings and moving faster. This seems to give me the best results.
Anyone else having this experience? Maybe I just started way too cold...?
Attached thumbnail(s)
^ I love welding clean thick steel Nothing more satisfying than making dimes with a mig.
Judging by your heat marks your welds should have good penetration, at least that horizontal piece. You didnt make great penetration on your vertical weld to the firewall.
On to floor fitment. With the custom lower fire wall comes mods to the rear floor panel. Long story short, the floor is about 1" too long in just the perfect way so the flat that needs to spot weld to the bottom of the lower cross bar juuuuuuust misses.
What to do? There were probably a few ways to deal with this but here's what I did.
This pic shows all the gaps I have to address. The lines outline where the cross bar lands on the stock floor and you can see that the only contacts are at that raised section at the bottom of the pic. The rear of the bar just barely kisses that raised edge most of the way across but not nearly enough to be secure.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I opted to move the lip in by about 1". So a bit of guestimeasuring and cut the thing into pieces.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Remove that middle piece, slide the lip section into place and
A bit of weld dressing and Phase 1, passenger side is done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it got fun. Thankfully, I'm learning patience as I get older. I knew I need to preserve the outer most edge at each outside corner as that material is needed when it comes time to spot weld the jacking donut triangles in place.
But I have that odd gap at the left edge of the piece I moved forward. (see above pic) So, I figured I could "reverse" that corner that's just to the left of the gap and tie it to the moved section. It's hard to explain but I ended up doing some hammer and dolly work to pound that corner back into itself and out the other side.
Then I welded the seam... Pics probably make it easier.
Top pic is the stock shapes (driver side)
Bottom pic is what I now have (passenger side)
(Pardon the wet primer...)
Attached thumbnail(s)
It now fits nicely, with plenty of contact with the lower cross bar.
And that section at the top of the pic that curves out, away from the crossbar is where the jack donut triangle edge sits, as seen-ish in the 2nd pic.
I'll add a bar that triangulates from the cross bar back to the long to support that "curving out section" so I have a robust jacking point.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I also got the lower fire wall uprights tacked in. Once they are final welded and I mod the driver's side of the floor pan, the floor goes in.
Then it's on to the seats. Once that's done, I'll move to the tunnel and pedals.
Man, this is taking a long time.
Attached thumbnail(s)
As one of my car buddies recently reminded me:
There's no kill like overkill!
So I treated the Tangerine Racing towers to an upgrade to ARP stainless fasteners.
I mean, doesn't Foley's stuff deserve the top shelf treatment?
I'm going to anodize the top piece, too. Black, maybe gold, still TBD on color.
And that's the spacer that was fabbed to address the interference that would otherwise occur between the shock top hat and the bottom of the tower extension.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the benefit to all that work that went into moving the drive line forward:
It's kinda hard to tell in the pics, but I have a reasonably relaxed CV angle.
This should address any concerns about CV / CV boot failure.
Maybe someone (Tony?) could post a pic of what this looks like with the trans in the "stock" location?
And yes, there is a spacer that goes between the inner CV and the output drive. I just didn't have long enough bolts...
Attached thumbnail(s)
You are welcome Chris (LOL)! That's where it needs to be - great job!
I am still not sure it will work - I need to test it when out there this summer...
T
I tried but do not have a good picture of my set-up Chris...the hassle of moving the drive-line forward is a HUGE improvement over what I am dealing with!
Tony
OK, so not too scientific but here's an approximation of the angle the axle would otherwise have been.
Looks like I reduced it about 1/2, maybe?
Attached thumbnail(s)
I would defiantly say that is fairly accurate - that is a big deal.
T
Here's a photo of my VSS and reluctor. It's the GM VSS, but thought I'd share anyway. The reluctor clears the Porsche 911 CV. I'm using the Audi VSS (on the 01e trans) to run my speedo.
Andys
Attached image(s)
Andy (howdy!)...did you mean to post this in Rudy's thread/build?
Tony
For those who may be interested, here's a better review of the rear floor mod.
1. Cut and move that rear section forward.
2. The gap I need to close
3. Start hammering the curve back into itself
4. Overall shape is where I want it so I'm calling it finished and ready to weld!
Next, I mock it back into the car and trim the edge to match the jacking donut triangle.
This floor is all but ready to go in!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I got the rear suspension mocked in and decided to trim the spacers a bit.
How's this for old school? Neat old, belt driven South Bend lathe. Works like a champ!
Attached thumbnail(s)
The floor is in. Well, all but a few inches of the main joint. Then I need to dress the welds. I'm going to run the stock cross bar because:
1. I have it
2. It makes is simple to locate the seat mounts vs a custom bar
3. The top of it all but lines up with the height of the 1.5x1" tubing that will make up the base of the tunnel.
Note that the cross bar is just sitting there, helping me think through the tunnel design.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So much to do, so little time.
It's official, I'm a slave to fashion...
Upon reflection, I didn't like the look of the ARP 12 point fasteners. Too busy. And hex head is too pedestrian. (IMO).
So I splurged and went with titanium button heads. Pricey little buggers but they do look the business!
Looks properly tidy. Much better all around.
As I said, Foley's stuff deserves the top shelf treatment so I figured I'd better just go all the way.
Yes, I'm aware that some of what I spend my time and money on is silly. My wife beat you to that thought...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
You are just now "coming out" as a slave to fashion...like we did not already know that! I like the new bolts much better. I might copy them...
T
Wow, that is pretty!
Just be careful with galling on Ti fasteners. If you didn't already use it, I suggest some sort of anti-seize.
Sweet cap screws!
If you're looking for an antisieze, DuPont Krytox works really well and from what I remember it's not too expensive. We specified and used it at a place I worked for pretty much all stainless, inconel, and titanium fittings. It was actually pretty much the only antisieze which always worked.
My seats shipped today! These are them just before being boxed.
GTS Classics Le Mans with their oval headrests.
Pretty.
Damn!
Cool!
Well, actually, they have heaters so maybe it's: Pretty damn hot!
Either way:
Scheduled to arrive this Friday.
Attached image(s)
Snazzy seats for a wild build!
I wish I could add those belt passages on my old Koenig seats...not sure how.
.....OK.....seriously? Those are just stupid nice. Man I wish I had a set of those for my car. But, alas, it is not to be. I have to try to keep it appearing as stock as possible - seats like that would be a huge give-away. But
Those are the nicest seats out there right now. Those grommets are incredible. Those seats are perfect size too.
OK, this may turn out to be a(nother) waste of time but boy, it sure would be great if I could run the intake in the "regular", not flipped, orientation. I'd gain all my trunk space back.
This is a pic of the Palatov DP2 set up. I don't (yet) see why I couldn't do something like this. I create a suitable bulge in the upper firewall and reshape the lower firewall behind the passenger seat to accommodate the air cleaner... Yes, it'd be outside the passenger compartment.
I'll look into it and let you know...
Attached image(s)
A "suitable bulge" to accommodate that intake would be a "not so subtle bulge" - try it but I would bet you will find it to be way to deep. My intake is less than an inch off the firewall (and already sits 1.5" further back than yours)!
IDEA: What about making an "integrated" intake in the firewall? I thought of this when I was brainstorming during my build but it was well beyond my ability to pull it off. Piece of cake for you...
Tony
Chris: The route your race-car is going...you would be a fool NOT to go with the Borla ITB's - the price has dropped in half (btw)! Best of both worlds...you keep your firewall and trunk space!
Tony
I have a way with words...if I had your money, I wouldn't think twice!
T
I bumped my firewall out a small amount (1 1/4"), and it's goes un-noticed. The stock backpad still fits, though it does have a filler spacer. Point is, that it may be doable to run the intake forward and it's just a matter of how much do you want to bump out the firewall.
Andys
This build is on hold while I get the '74 road worthy. Hopefully, that'll happen within the next couple weeks. Until then, it's "resting" in the garage.
And apparently, my wife thinks it makes a fine winter storage shelf for the patio furniture cushions.
Bella, my shop helper, shows great taste in selecting a Porsche perch for her afternoon nap.
Oh, and you can see that I've finally signed my sponsorship deal and have begun working on my race livery...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice! Did you cover a rust hole with that?
The LS car seems to be jealous. I was working on the '74 and learned that when a wire wheel gets hold of your work glove, it can quickly get scary.
I was cleaning off a small part with the wheel spinning such that it wouldn't grab the part. Well, there was a small lip that, in spite of my best intentions, the wheel got hold of.
A nano second later, the wheel pulls the part (and my hand) into the angle grinder. It ripped the glove and wrapped the cuff around the wire wheel, pulling the wheel right into my wrist. With the speed and force this all happened, I thought I was in serious trouble...
Thankfully, the wheel jammed up with the glove and stopped spinning pretty quickly.
You can see where I "got wheeled" and where the guard sliced into the base of my thumb.
In the end, nothing but a good scare - but certainly a reminder:
We can never be too careful...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris - I am glad it wasn't worse but sorry nonetheless. Gotta be extra, extra careful using these tools, eh?
Tony
Lucky, lucky, lucky.... Glad it was just a scratch!
Its only a flesh wound...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAW6D21ICdg
Thanks for the kind word (and the ) Yep, I'm all good. So, let's get back to the build. This time, some non life-threatening stuff:
I pulled the trigger on my wiring today!
1. InfinityBox 20 circuit kit with:
- inReserve battery management system
- inLink (for security/imobilizing but I plan to run a "no key" solution. Just a push button start/stop button)
I'm REALLY impressed with the support. Jay has no end of patience and spent time explaining everything in detail. He even talked me out of buying some of the things I was considering. At this point, I'd recommend them, especially for builds like this one where I need ("need", ha!) to replace all the wiring.
http://infinitybox.com/
2. Current Performance LS3 stand-alone engine harness
It should all be here in a couple weeks. And won't this part be a ton of fun...
(Heck, I don't even know where I'm locating the battery!)
Cart ahead of horsey??? Conversations and performance are different - ever hear of salespeople?
Tony
Holy moley, it's been almost a month... And what I have to post isn't too exciting but I guess it is something, so...
The trailing arms haven't even been installed and I'm changing things already. I needed to rebuild the arms in my '74 so decided to pull the (new) Elephant Racing rubber bushings out of these arms, use them in the '74 and upgrade these to Elephant Racing PolyBronze.
The pivot shaft just floaty floats in there. You can spin it with two fingers, slide it out...
Zerk fittings are added as these needed greasing every 3k mikes or so. And yes, they change the ride dynamic.
So, there you go. Another month down but virtually no progress. I'm getting why it's called the Build Off "Challenge"!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Again, more time passes and not much of an update... With the shoulder injury preventing me working on the car, about all I can do is buy more goodies. I'm still in need of the torsion bars but this should be enough suspension porn to get me through my recovery period:
- Rebuilt/powder coated a-arms with Elephant Racing spherical bearings
- Elephant Racing bladed sway bar
Their stuff is so pretty I almost don't want to put it on the car!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hey it's nice to see some progress. Love the Elephant Racing suspension. They have the best web site don't they. That thing should ride really nice. No clunks or squeaks. On another note, Zero progress on my build for this month. I went on vacation and after I came back it's been crazy busy. I've been working all weekends. Anyway nice to see some progress....even if it's just buying stuff.
I must say the buying stuff is the most instantly satisfying part.. When you open that box and see those shiny (or dirty) parts!
3 months and no progress. Injury and other priorities... Enough of that! I'm back!
Here we go... I know that for some of you, this wiring stuff is nothing. That ain't the case for me.
For the most part, I've avoided thinking about this part of the build. Specifically because I have virtually no skills/experience with wiring. So, it's a bit intimidating looking at a two medium sized boxes full of the stuff.
For the main harness, I went with the Infinity Box 20 circuit with a couple upgrades. Current Performance supplied the stand-alone LS3 harness (set up for a reversed intake) and DBW throttle pedal.
With the arrival of this stuff, I have almost nothing left to purchase. What will I use for an excuse as to why this project isn't farther along? Oh yea, WCR prep!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Good Morning,
In the box it looks pretty daunting. Once you lay it out on the floor it will get easier.
This is what we use at RS to put the wires where we want them. They come in both a large and small size.
https://www.amazon.com/iExcell-100Pcs-Black-Saddle-Holder/dp/B01GSXN1XA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1497102532&sr=8-3&keywords=zip+tie+holders
Are the wires all labeled ?
^^
Cary, Andrew - Thanks for the encouragement...
What time can you be here?
Looking forward to see your progress the car is turning out very nice.
Nice stuff there, I looked at the Infinity Box products for my other car a few times. Had I only had 1 project car instead of 2 I might have pulled the trigger and bought it. Too bad about their name, they used to be iSiS , which I see they still have on a few products!
Well that looks familiar...the "40" has an iSiS system - still n the box - you will be a pro!
T
w/ Andrew. The plywood layout is infinitely adjustable and cheap. But more important is the preservation of ones own sanity. Start with what's easy or apparent. Then move on to the more difficult items. Often you will find that daunting items reveal their secrets, bit by bit, when working on some of the simpler items. Lastly, you will
quite often. Get used to it but don't let it defeat you. Sometimes the answers will come at 2:30 AM, sometimes they come from this board or another, but they will come to you if you have the tenacity. When the moment arrives that you power her up for the first time you will be shitting in your shoes and thrilled at the same time. "Onward thru the Fog", Oat Willie.
So it's been months since I worked on this project. WCR and yesterday's R Gruppe gathering have me back motivated. Plus, I've gotten (almost) caught up on various other commitments that have kept me from this effort. Anyway... back to it.
First, something totally unnecessary that will only distract, add complexity and additional time to the build... Sounds about right to me!
I've decided to vent the radiator through the fenders and NOT do a vent in the hood (at least for now) and I'd like to do something to help with the removal of hot air from under the fenders.
I just love the fender vents in the GT3 RS so I hung a crap glass flare on the front and started drawing. In the end, this will be added to the steel flares - again, this glass flare was just for idea mock up. I'm thinking an aluminum frame with mesh. Ideally, I'll relieve the opening in the fender so the frame sits flush with the fender.
This was totally free handed (like you can't tell!). I didn't measure anything so yes, the openings are all different heights. That'll get corrected in the final design.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was back to what I really need to complete next: the chassis.
I'm getting closer to what I think will be the final design/position of the front hoop. I want to get it ahead of the door opening. This looks like it'll require relocating the front hood latch release but that's not too big a deal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like what you are doing. At one time I was thinking of adding the GT3 louvers on the tops of the fenders but I am going to evacuate the air through the hood. I know that the guys that run the air through the inner fenders have the gas tank heating up from the hot radiator air.
So long as you duct the air from the radiator to the fenders there shouldnt be any reason why the fuel tank will heat up.
I like the idea of fender vents, I think the design needs some work unless your going for the mechanical look on the car. Cant quite think of a better design in my head though.... Maybe taper the bottom some more like the GT3?
Just a personal opinion, but on a 914 I wouldn't want the fancy vents. The stealth factor is what makes a 914 supercar so cool. Venting out the inside fenderwells has been proven to work. Out the top of the lid can make more sense for downforce, but to me, stealthy is cool. Nothing as cool as a monster sleeper.
Andrew - Yep, the design needs refinement. As is usual for me, I need to see it, change it, try it, change it again. This is V1 so it's destined to be updated. From an overall look/feel, "mechanical" is actually something I'm after so I'm tickled that's how you saw it.
Rand - I am TOTALLY with you on wanting it to be stealthy. But I've always thought that once you add GT flares, 914s lose most, if not all their stealth. I was toying with moving the whole side of the car out 2" to fake a narrow body look and still have some tire to deal with the LS power. That's what I'd really like... maybe in the future.
So for this build, I'm going with a look that will be clearly identifiable as a "hot rod". That also opens up some other design options I'm looking to include.
Keep the cards and letters coming. In agreement with my approach or not, your input helps me clarify my thinking!
One thing for sure is we all have opinions, but your workmanship is stellar and whatever you do is going to be amazing. Speaks for itself. Keep it going and always express yourself! I always look forward to seeing your work.
I'm finding that being away from the car for a couple months has me rethinking some of the stuff I thought was done. I've always had a niggling "I think that could look better..." about the rear shock tower. The top cross bar didn't feel well integrated to me. So I started playing around with how I might box things in. The red outlines where that piece will actually sit.
This design eliminates the "wings" in the stiffening panel and, to my eye, nicely cleans up that whole area.
Plus, it ties the long to the bar to the tower even more.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Get it driving. Then nail down the fancy details.
With most projects that would be reasonable but not this one. Also, and perhaps most important, Chris enjoys the "creative strategizing" process more than the actual finishef product itself. Going slightly out on the limb here but I believe I know him well enough to wtite this about him. This project will take time...allot of time (and that is ok). Keep it up Chris, integrate all of these wild plans as you go - in the order you think best. I always (erll, almost always) enjoy the new posts!
Tony
Tony is mostly accurate - I'm about the journey, not the destination.
That said, I do want to get it on the road. It'll be interesting to see how well/not well I balance my propensity for neat new ideas with the boring "gotta do this" work.
Speaking of "gotta do" stuff, here's the final position of the front hoop. With the dash in place, it all but disappears, just like I want.
In the second pic, you can see how I plan to tie the hoop to the steering column support. To get the hoop forward to where I wanted it, I had to notch the steering support sheet metal. You can see my little paper template of the bracket I'll fab to reinforce the support. There will be one of them on each side.
Final pic is the bracket translated into the plasma software.
Oh, and best of all, as you can see, I don't need to relocate the front hood latch! One less thing to do!
Getting there with this chassis stuff...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Progress!
Yikes! Just seeing my post for the first time from the other day...I typed that out from my phone in transit back to the East coast (as a passenger!). Spell checker should've kicked in...
T
Man, it feels sooooooo nice to be back working on this! Such fun...
Got the front hoop/steering support brackets cut and mocked in. Should work just fine. I'm still kicking around how I might tie this hoop in to the front of the car. Whatever I decide, I hope to get the hoop fully welded in this weekend.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Rudy - Thanks for the input. I'd planned to weld all the seams of the suspension tower boxing so no worries there.
On that lower bar: I'm rethinking my induction/exhaust systems and am close to a decision that will require I redo that entire back panel... At this point, I won't be finalizing anything other than the top cross bar and the aforementioned boxing.
Once I do start back on that area, let me know what you think of what I come up with? Thanks again!
I decided to take today off and was able to get the front hoop mostly done. My buddy Martin needed some welding done on his car so he TIG'd for me while I MIG'd for him. (I think I got the better of THAT deal!)
How f-ing beautiful is his work?
Attached thumbnail(s)
And it turned out GREAT! Just what I wanted: The rear edge of the hoop sits even with the front of the door opening and it all but disappears under the dash. Exactly as I wanted it. Very happy with this result.
And seeing it all in place has me thinking I'll trim off most all of the lower part of those brackets that tie the hoop to the steering column support. Looks a little scary as is.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Bravo!
T
Beautiful scales. Amateur welders blob. Skilled welders scale. Very nice.
I got the front hoop fully welded down then trimmed and tacked in the hoop-to-steering column support tabs. As I mentioned, I opted to lose the lower part that captured the hoop as it extended down below the dash and sorta felt like a potential future leg bitter...
I'm pretty psyched at just how well it all fits together. Here's the dash back in place.
How's that for tidy clearance?! Less than 1/4" gap all the way across.
All that's left is to fabricate a replacement lower dash mount/tab of some sort to replace the factory one. That had to come off as it ran smack into the hoop.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A bit all over the place today. I need to get the seats mounted because I want to have the tube that braces the door bar to the main hoop match the angle of the seat bolsters. Hey, it's the little things. Anyway, I had a couple spots to weld up to finish the rear floor install so I did that then started on the seat mounts.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I figured I may as well get the final templates made for the rear suspension tower boxes. I'm always amazed when things go to plan and it all fits just like I want. Here's the same template fit to both sides. It flexes a little but is a good indicator of how matchy match I got things. I'm really pleased at the side-to-side symmetry. Even that little notch for the cross bar pad weld on the outside edge is exactly right side to side.
I've said it before: This is the first time I've tackled a project like this and sometimes it's hard for me to believe it's turning out this well. I'm happy, if you couldn't tell.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Talk about something not important to getting this project running...
As I was pulling the dash so I could work on the cage, the gauge surround caught my eye as something that might be fun to play with.
I've always like the idea of running a small, diagonal set of German flag colored stripes from the front fender opening up over the fender, at some jaunty angle.
I figured I'd see what it'd look like on the gauge surround. Well, it looks like this.
At least with no gauges or any other interior components!
Not quite the right color yellow/gold but it's all I had.
Anyone else done something like this? I'd be interested to see how it looks "finished".
Attached thumbnail(s)
Do you want me to be honest?
T
Rookie stripes on my car... Sounds about right. Unless there something slower/more dangerous than "rookie"!
Install two-sets of them...
T
Well, try as I might to not have gone this way, I've given in and will have to add a bit of "Cracker" to my build.
Hey, it's Tony's old engine so maybe it'll be happier with a similar exhaust set up.
These are just some $150 ebay specials but they are actually quite nice.
Gotta admit, I REALLY like the look. It's even more impactful when you see it in person.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fits! Fire it up!
As I start getting closer to working on the various systems, I need to decide on gauges. I know folks have had success with the SpeedHut products but, as usual, I'd like something a little different. How about these from Classic Instruments?
Kinda stealthy and heck, they say "auto cross" right on them! It's like an omen!
I'm also toying with running only the tach and speedo in the instrument pod then running individual gauges in the console (that I have yet to design/build).
Again, we'll have to see...
Attached image(s)
I translated the cardboard template into the plasma system and while it did require some fine tuning with the flap disc, it's a nice fit. I opted not to try and plasma cut the rounded corner. I don't fully trust my ability to program in the radius as it's not consistent. I'll trim it once it's in place.
That said, I did triumph over the 3" hole. It had to be designed/cut as an ellipse to account for the tipped angle of the Tangerine raised pick up.
That was fun...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I tend to like bone stock cars, but that is a nice set up.
Cross bar and seat mounts in. Well, passenger side anyway.
Oh CRAP! I forgot to put the tunnel in first... I hate it when that happens...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I finished the driver's side seat mount and just had to test fit the GT Classics!
This is set to the angle that I'll use to determine the triangulation bar that runs from the door bar to the main hoop.
And this also means I can work on mounting the pedals.
Getting there...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Those seats look great!!!
Make sure those pedals are waaay forward...
T
Amazing build, keep it up!
So I started playing with positioning the pedals and determined I'd want a little more leg room. No biggie, just slide the seat back a little bi.... The headrest juuust contacts the main hoop.
In this location, a 6' tall person would likely be comfy. But this hoop design consumes what turns out to be ~ 2" of seat travel - at least with these seats. I don't see that as something I want to give up.
Hmmm. Well, I didn't see that one coming.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A bit of head scratching has convinced me the existing hoop ain't gonna work.
I tossed the 'old' full height hoop in, just to see... Nope, I don't like that either.
I want to have, and be able to remove, all the interior trim.
Back to the drawing board!
Attached thumbnail(s)
...not to mention that the full height bar isn't safe for road use with an open seat like you have! Get your thinker going...or should I say, keep it on!!!
T
Why isn't it safe? Maybe upper body an head being able to toss around and strike the bar? By open seat like he has do you mean a more closed seat is the ones that have the side protectors on each side for your head restraint? Just looking to learn from someone with more knowledge.
Correct. It is a combination of how the drivers head is shrouded; the height of the seat relative to cage work; the type of restraint system used; etc.
My "open seat" reference was not comparing it to a Halo seat (which I believe you thought), rather letting the shoulders and head move to the side so easily is what concerns me. Chris's seats are for a hot rod and there is nothing wrong with that! Below is the diagram of the seats I use...
One wack and you can be dead - big safety issue with cage cars running on the street!
T
Well, I've come up with two options.
1. Bend up another hoop that is essentially the same as the current one but is lower so as to sit in the space between the top of the seat and the bottom of the head rest. This would also necessitate bending it such that it popped out then back in to clear the bulge in the firewall.
2. It's a bit hard to explain but essentially moves the hoop 100% into the engine compartment and turns it from a hoop into more just a cross bar.
I'm still thinking on it. but if I can pull off the bending, I think I prefer option 1. It'll give me another place to tie in the console that I'm planning.
Still thinking on this one...
Chris I've nothing to add really but to say this is one damn cool build.
Enjoy your creativity and fabrication work.
Those seats are really cool.
Would individual style hoops work per seat. Styled like the Audi TT.
Just a thought. Have at it.
Here's the latest thinking on the chassis stiffening design.
1. It's a "race rod". This is a term I'm claiming defines a car that has elements of race car-ness but is clearly a "hot rod".
2. Given #1, above, I'm not trying to build something that will pass tech or be the stiffest ever (or even close) cage. I am after something that will be a big improvement over stock and help handle the motor.
3. Bonus points if it's a bit unique and makes me smile.
Initial mock up meets my criteria!
(note the tubes are not positioned exactly, exactly, but you get the idea...)
I'm going to plate the seat belt retractor area and land the angled bar top at that spot. On the back side, I'll remove the factory anchor bolt, plate that side and run a tube from there back to the suspension tower.
This saves me trying to fab a complex, multi-bend compound tube and eliminates having to deal with another hole in the firewall.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Keeping with the race rod approach, I'm going to stay with the stock, 3-point retractable seat belt.
With the cage location, I need to move the seat belt retractor. I talked with Seat Belt Planet and they can add the needed length to the belt so I can relocate the retractor to the base of the firewall.
So long as the retractor mechanism is mounted in the same physical orientation as stock, I'm good to go.
The retractor is just sitting there, not attached. I still need to fab the mounting location but again, you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Mock up of the location for the shifter.
Feels like I'm making progress again.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I want to do some additional "triangluation" for the angled bar so I stated playing around with what a perforated panel might look like. This is the first hack/sketch so...
It'd echo the engine compartment panel design but I think this time I'd use 2 mirror image pieces and seam weld together the inner edges of the dimpled holes, making a hollow panel about 1/4" thick. Plenty strong.
And worst case, I can always use a tube to triangulate.
The saga continues.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the plan. It will be way better than stock but still give you easy enough access. Good choice.
I really like the direction you are going...only one design element to consider (given your point #1 above). The horizontal bar over 4th he rocker does not have to be that high...not even close. Consider positioning it at 1/2 the current height or keep the rear height the same and taper it down to the front. Can you "mock" it up like this repost pictures? Looking great Chris!
T
Double post...
Hey Chris...have you ever thought about something like this???
Tony
And in the spirit of full disclosure:
I've said it before - mostly you see the end result in the pics, not the gaps in knowledge or experience, or the 'n' number of attempts at getting things to work out. So, it's only fair I pay tribute to those parts and pieces that sacrificed themselves to the cause. These are the latest examples of my learning as I go.
Put these in the "Don't" column:
- You can't expect a good result unless you have thought ahead and allowed for enough tube length so that the front part of the die doesn't run off the end of the tube and totally gack the part. (Yes, that is a rip in the tube...)
- given a particular radius die, there are limits to how close you can bend two radii. If you think you can outsmart physics and magically get them closer, you are wrong.
- as with all things in life, the facts are the facts and no amount of lube will make any difference.
I should start a website called "FabFail.com".
I'd be a regular contributor...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Much better Chris...
If Patrick Motorsports would build a "race car" with such a cage (which I don't agree with btw) - it is perfectly fine for a "Race-Rod"! Regardless of the loss of stiffness... biggrin.gif
T
LOL!
Hack in MS Paint V2.
Maybe like this. But the bend would be a bit larger radius.
Attached thumbnail(s)
[/quote]
Now, if I could just convince Rudy to work up his math on the difference in stiffness between these two designs...!
(seriously, though Rudy, that's impressive stuff to us who don't know a cosine from our elbow.)
[/quote]
No no no, no more calcs. They are summarily disregarded based on anecdotal experience.
I'll play along.
Anecdotally I can say that your current design delivers all of the loads to the weakest point in the long. Do your self a favor and tie your front hoop up to the strut tower. If you do that, then you're on to something. Alternatively, do one of your awesome gussets and tie that vertical front hoop bar into the vertical sheet metal area behind the A pillar. Otherwise, it's a very good looking design without adding much structural integrity to bending forces in the longs.
It does look really good though. Especially that gusset back to the firewall. My 0.02 $.
You said race rod ...so in that spirt lose the gusset idea...does nothing but add weight....and even though the fabrication looks cool , it crosses the line of extraneous ....my opinion of course...but I am cursed with excellent taste .......
[quote name='Curbandgutter' date='Jul 26 2017, 02:29 PM' post='2510405']
[/quote]
Now, if I could just convince Rudy to work up his math on the difference in stiffness between these two designs...!
(seriously, though Rudy, that's impressive stuff to us who don't know a cosine from our elbow.)
[/quote]
No no no, no more calcs. They are summarily disregarded based on anecdotal experience.
I'll play along.
Anecdotally I can say that your current design delivers all of the loads to the weakest point in the long. Do your self a favor and tie your front hoop up to the strut tower. If you do that, then you're on to something. Alternatively, do one of your awesome gussets and tie that vertical front hoop bar into the vertical sheet metal area behind the A pillar. Otherwise, it's a very good looking design without adding much structural integrity to bending forces in the longs.
It does look really good though. Especially that gusset back to the firewall. My 0.02 $.
[/quote]
Rudy -
My explanations and execution are always behind the plans in my head.
Yes, I already had plans to tie the front hoop into the chassis, I was thinking the gussets would be a lot simpler to execute than tubes to the front towers but we'll see which I end up liking best. I am a slave to fashion, don'tcha know!
I also plan to tie the front hoop in as part of center tunnel/console. It will run to the front of the floor and up the inside of the front bulkhead. That should help add a bit more "twist resist".
Always appreciate your input, my friend!
Go ahead and place me in the "anecdotal" crowd if that's what you feel like, but I'm with ablesnead on this. The area in the triangle doesn't need more strength. It's worth more in art than function and adds weight. Which is great if that's what you want. My anecdotal belief is to use the least amount of material (and weight) to get the job done. Why add unnecessary stuff to a car that is so potentially light?
No registration required Rand...you already hold a members card! Well, I was lumped into membership by Rudy too!
T
I make sharp comments about projects. It adds something, fwiw. I don't ever mean to diss people. (Sorry to anyone who felt like I did.)
Ahh, after your edit I get another bit of where you're coming from. Good company. Love you too, Tony.
Well said. Sometimes communicating online gets funky because we can't see the mannerisms, expressions, and all. Good thing though, we are all in the same garage here.
We rib each other, we eat meat, we drink beer, we call out stuff that doesn't make sense, we rib each other more. And you can remove any part of that you don't like if you are a vegan and don't drink.
I'd say anything in person that I say here. It would be interpreted differently at times I'm sure! LOL
Keep it coming. The more we get to know each other, the better the garage gets.
Keep it coming? Well OK then!
I had some time this evening so bent up the one piece, angle down door bar. Here it is. Forgive the hack MS Paint job but I wanted to get a better feel for what it might look like with the supports (ish).
Flipping the bend really changes the look. I'm not sure which I like best.
Decisions, decisions.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Real opinion? I like as much leg room getting in and out of the car as possible... the 914 is already a super tight squeeze for me anyways. Now I know you have your floor pan drop which is giving you a much needed extra room, but it still is difficult sqeezing that left leg in around the steering wheel and in front of the A pillar.
I have NO idea how Tony does it...
My point being I would prefer the front bar to terminate as early as possible with a thick plate encompasing the Long and then the front A pillar roll loop starting much before the door opening and then there a short gusset to the a pillar and lower a pillar.
Then again I am as I mentioned a big fan of the hidden roll cage, like the RUF cars and this guy.
http://www.redlinerennsport.com/CagePage.html
I like that design for the side bar because I'm still a little squeamish about contact with another vehicle and I want all of the protection I can get.
Would it help if the rear short hoop was angled on the long behind the bulkhead so far as giving you the room you need behind the seats? I know what I'm thinking of but without the car in front of me to look and assess my ideas it's kinda hard...
And Andy, Tony uses lots of lube... LOTS of lube.... to get in and out of his car.
I like the side bar, I had a harebrained idea of putting the main hoop for a cage on the "other" side of the back window for more room. Of course the targa bar would have to be butchered up beyond putting car back to stock easily. I think you are past that point currently
If you are going to add something just for aesthetic value, right there in the door opening is a good place... You've already got a theme going, I think I'd do it. Ties the room together. So to speak.
OK, structural guys: A little help. Does this make sense, strength wise?
Box/plate from the front hoop to the inner fender. Where the plates (side and top) hit the inner fender and A pillar wall, I'll fold an angle, suitably sized so I can spot weld it. Everything else gets seam welded and I'd add some lightening holes
NOTE: the door bar hits pretty low on the front hoop so my assumption is that this "support box"needn't be much higher than that. Good assumption?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Although you are correct (technically) very few drivers even get close to pushing the cornering limits of their cars. Even at a hefty "teener" weight of 2400 pounds - it is ridiculously light compared to let's say, a 918 (or a GT3 Cup, etc.). Chris could make his entire car an "art piece" and it wouldn't matter for its intended purpose. Spirited laps on summer tires will (still) be fun - in the right hands, still a rocket.
T
Rudy...you did mean Chris, correct?
T
I am glad you are taking all this in the spirit it is intended...so I'll add this perspective...I will accept that the rod part is an aesthetic exercise , and although it can incorporate function , it art is primarily in its visual appeal....but this isn't a 49 merc leadsled or ungainly high boy ..so the foundation you choose is representative of a light nimble car . good art is one that supports that premise . the metal that you sculpt needs to add to the light and nimble effect , one of superior performance , thru simplicity yet artistically your own rendition...replacing the rear firewall did exacty that ....you sill to door pillar does the opposite......This is fun
Thank you for the encouragement Rand....I'll jump off whichever bridge you point out too.
T
[quote name='Rand' date='Jul 27 2017, 07:38
"You should always push the cornering limits of your car! The only way to find the edge is to push past it. What a shame to have a supercar and never have a clue how much farther you could push it."
[/quote]
[quote name='Cracker' date='Jul 27 2017, 05:57 PM' post='2510855']
Thank you for the encouragement Rand....I'll jump off whichever bridge you point out too.
T
[quote name='Rand' date='Jul 27 2017, 07:38
"You should always push the cornering limits of your car! The only way to find the edge is to push past it. What a shame to have a supercar and never have a clue how much farther you could push it."
[/quote]
[/quote]
I know a real heavy one.
I like the latest rendition. BUT more gusset! Run it full length, split your vertical tubes so that they run on each side of the gusset and use only full circle lightening holes.......
Have you been wiretapping our lines?
Tony
Maybe.....
Decision made! I'm going with the one piece door bar.
So, time to bend up the final pieces. Here's the mighty, mighty bender. It's a beast.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Gettin' jiggy wi't it! (See what I did there?)
Got the first one done and then it's time to make an exact match. Well, as exact as I can get it... but the fixturing table is like cheating. It makes things like this so much simpler.
First bend and so far, so good!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next bend. I end up sneaking up on it. There are marks on the ram assembly that I use to measure how far it's extended. I check the bend as it's bending by holding the big protractor over it and eyeball it 'til it looks close. (This bender doesn't have a degree gauge on it.)
Then I pull the bar and check it in the jig. If I need more angle, I put it back in the bender, extend the ram to the previous measurement and give it just a bit more!
Here's the result after three rounds of the ol' "in and out".
Yea! Nailed it...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Mock up.
I really like this. The angle is nicely aligned with the seat back and when I'm in the seat, it turns out the bar is an awesome arm rest!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And credit where credit is due:
Tony - thanks for suggesting I mock up the bar with the down angle!
...sigh.
Flashback/nightmare of the day -
Tony and Rand in the back seat of our 1969 Ford station wagon (with wood paneling of course). Somehow, they are 7 years old. I'm driving:
Me: "Hey you two! Play nice! Don't make me pull over..."
Love you both,
Chris
Attached image(s)
[/quote]
The down angle is perfect! One more short tube from the lower elbow to the long in front of the firewall, BAM. Might even eliminate the need for the short vert piece in the middle.
Beautiful work, Chris.
[/quote]
Rand -
Thanks for the continued kind words and encouragement. I'm a believer in the whole "nature abhors even numbers" thing so the plan is for three verts.
Just looks more balanced to me... But I'll play around with it as final fitting happens.
(oooh, maybe no verts and just a panel of dimple died holes... )
Attached thumbnail(s)
A little help, please? With the change in plan for the main hoop, I need to patch the firewall. Rather than jump in and fab something I thought I'd first check to see if I could find some factory metal:
Anyone have a suitable donor car and the willingness to slice out this chunk? I need the same part for both sides
PM me if you can help. I need to complete this before I can install the door bars and I REALLY want to install the door bars so I'm a motivated buyer...
Thanks!
Chris
Attached thumbnail(s)
Teaser questions:
1. What's wrong with this picture?
- Hint the LS3 operates with a DBW throttle body. That there is a mechanical linkage.
Answer: Nothing is wrong with the pic.
2. What silliness have I committed myself to now?
Answer: I'll post pics as soon as I can!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have a hunch...does that control the Flux-Capacitor?!?!?
T
Well, it's finally happened. I'd been doing well on the "nothing I've welded in has had to be cut out" front but the work sunk into the fire wall openings for the initial main hoop design has been cut out. And it's going back to exactly what it was before I started messing with it.
Ah well, it is what it is...
Turns out I had kept the driver side piece from the '72 I parted out. I still have a few tweaks before I'll call it done but it's turning out pretty well. I'm !
Now to source the passenger side piece. Sounds like Cary has a nice one...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very well done Chris...it look great!
T
It was a day of metal work. First the firewall then back to work on the chassis stiffening.
I decided not to do the gussets as the primary tie-in for the front hoop. Instead, it'll be a bar from the hoop to the front suspension tower.
So I thought I'd take a swing at fabbing up a support pad.
The big compound curve means I got to practice with the English Wheel and shrinker.
It still needs some additional work and final trimming but I think I like it!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Took a bit of work to get the piece you need. Its jacked up on Super In Laws wooden stacker. So we got the Big Joe pallet stacker out and lifted it off the contraption.
Down on to Doug's wooden dolly and ready for amputation.
Part was extracted by Super In Law. Pretty simple until you get to the air vent hole. It has 3-4 layers going 3-4 different directions. Took him a couple hours to figure it out. But he got it out for you with the flanges intact.
Part left with Matt. It will get shipped out at 914 Rubber.
After that he kept tearing down the parts car. Not keeping too much. Cut out the remaining portion of the firewall. Probably the headlight buckets. Longs are crap, but we'll cut out the uppers and the mounts. We'll cut out the tunnel and see what we have. Door hinge posts. Front portion of engine the engine tray. He busted his ass all day ..
Still amazes me ..........
Cary - That's it exactly! I send you an email w/details on next steps.
Thanks SO MUCH!
Chris
Much as I love Martin's help doing the TIG welding - and plan to have him do more - I happily admit it pisses me off and is a personal sore point. I will never hide this fact and whenever anyone comments "wow, nice welding", I have to give credit where it's due and I tell them about Martin.
It's... I'll say "disappointing", because I'll never be able to say I did 100% of my build. It's just how I'm wired.
So what to do? How about practice?
As some of you may know, I have a little side business doing yard art sorts of stuff and that affords me some work where my welding structural and visual results aren't quite as critical. Not that I don't do the best I can...
Anyway, here's part of yesterday's MIG work, as welded, not cleaned up. It's part of a 12' wide, 7' tall, vertical xylophone I was commissioned to do for a local school.
The "out of position" work is where I'm not reliably up to snuff. But I'm SLOWLY getting to where I may feel comfortable doing my own welding on some of the more visual areas of my build.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Dem some nice C's! Penetration looks great as well!
Can you turn up your welder any more? I would have preferred a hair more heat myself so long as the metal can take it. (My only critique, Your technique looks spot on!)
Chris, top notch as usual. You reshape metal quicker than I can turn the welder on!
Looks great.
Cheers
Big thanks to Cary, Super In-Law and 914 Rubber! The firewall patch showed up yesterday!
I had planned a day off to work on the car so in it went.
Here it is all trimmed up, ready for welding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hit it with some weld through primer (I found a few pin holes I need to close up...) but I wanted to get it at least some protection.
By the time it gets the final finish, I think it'll look "factory fresh". Hope so, anyway.
Attached thumbnail(s)
gooder as new.
With the firewall patching complete, it's back to work on the chassis stiffening.
I hole sawed through the seat belt retractor area as well as the support pads for that area. This allows me some for/aft adjustment as I get to fitting the door bars.
Note that in the pics, the bars are shifted rearward over 3" because I have yet to trim the front end of the bar. So the angled part will sit a bunch forward from how it looks - see the pics earlier in thread for a more accurate view.
Anyway, once everything is welded in, I'll dress any part of the tube that may poke through and weld around the tube, securing it to that support pad.
Then another support pad goes on the engine compartment side and I run the tube from there, back to the cross bar/rear shock tower.
And the vertical support is just there to support the bar. Final locations for all the verticals are tbd upon completion of trimming the front of the tube and determining where the rear-most vertical will be.
I'm liking the way this is coming together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
However, before the door bars go in, I want to more securely tie the front hoop to the chassis. As mentioned, I decided I wanted to run a tube from the hoop to the front suspension. Before I can do that, I have to add support pads to the suspension area.
This is proving to be a lot of work. Not a flat surface to be seen! And my initial mock up wasn't going to be sufficient - I need to use at least 12 gauge for the support pads so it's back to the drawing board.
First I made up paper templates then cut the material to size. Now, how to shape it?
How about this handy curved chunk of wood and a rubber mallet? These and some various size scraps of tube from 1" to 3"...
Here's the result. I was surprised that, within not a very long time, I was able to get a pretty tight fit and good side-to-side symmetry.
These pieces wrap the "upper" part of the tower.
Oh, and note to self: Push the top of the struts all the way back to be sure there's suitable clearance for everything!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was on to the "lower" pad. This is a real bitch of a compound curve.
I'm not done shaping but you get the idea how this will all go together.
Next, I need to bend up the bars. Or maybe just go to a bar...
Attached thumbnail(s)
This time, I used a piece of pretty stout welding rod to mock up an initial guestimate of the shape of the tube.
Doing all this by myself can be "fun". Trying to hold something in position while bending the other end while trying to keep the stinkin' thing in the middle of the hole I want it to pass through....!
And it worked! I got it on the first try. Then it's copy the shape for the other side.
I used the same jig approach and I nailed the shape of tube #2 with just one additional adjustment.
Still have to do final trimming on both ends of both tubes.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I finished up my day by prepping the vertical supports' support pads. After careful consideration, I think I'll have three verticals per side, plus the hoop.
Chris Foley (Tangerine Racing) was kind enough to sell me just the pads. However, because I skinned my longs, the radius Chris uses doesn't work for my car and needs adjustment.
I devised a way of using a vise and trusty rubber mallet to tighten the radius. Then I have to reset the angle. Not too bad, though. And each one fits nicely where it needs to be.
I'm calling that a successful day. Almost ready to weld all this stuff in! That will be a major accomplishment and big milestone in the build.
Maybe next week/weekend?
Attached thumbnail(s)
With the chassis stiffening coming together, I started thinking about closing up the lower firewall. Initial mock up was one piece but with all the systems that have to pass through it, I decided to make it with a removable center section.
So I started playing with one of the outer pieces. This is just a test piece in my typical approach of "I need to see it in physical form before I know if I like it".
Plus, it gives me a chance to practice with the bead roller.
It's little things like connecting the last bit of the bead to where it first started.
You can see I just barely missed (center of the top section.)
And design wise, I think I can come up with something more interesting than this first draft.
This was also my first attempt at hammer forming. I used this technique on the flanges and am really happy with how it wraps the corner at the top of the long. It nicely fits the curve!
I'm confident I can get these pieces to turn out really well within a couple more attempts.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good!!! I'm impressed with all the details...
Nice work! Would love to see a pic of your form. What are you using for a corking tool to hammer in those beads. I'm heading to town for some hard maple this afternoon. Maybe you have something better?
Loving the progress!
The chassis stiffening I'm doing is just that: chassis stiffening. This isn't to be confused with a roll cage. That said, I am doing most all I can to make it correctly.
However, I'll admit to cutting a couple corners. And here's one:
Getting that 12 ga material to fit well against the front fender compound curve didn't go as well as I wanted.
So, after much debate and consultation with a couple race car fab folks (and given my "race rod" disclaimer), I decided to wimp out and make the support pads out of 14 ga.
There is a fair bit if structure up around the suspension towers already and this more than doubles the material thickness of the fender well.
Plus the force is directed (mostly) at the tower. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Again, my race car consultants both said that, given my application, this should be more than sufficient.
So, instead of hammering into the curved block like last time, out comes the English wheel!
It's the proper tool for making compound curves in sheet.
Here's the blank as I start to raise the shape.
Attached thumbnail(s)
14 ga material has some strength to it... It took me about 30 mins of wheeling to get it where I needed it to be. Good little upper body workout, too!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Once I had the shape I wanted, I laid out the pattern for the pieces.
Needing mirror image pieces means it's important to REMEMBER TO FLIP THE PATTERN when doing the layout... Ask me how I know...
After looking at this for a minute, I realized that if I ever get tired of working on cars, I can always go into business making steel bras.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great work as usual.
I was able to get all the pieces rough trimmed and fit.
You can see how, in the first pic, the piece lays nicely on the fender. In the second pic, the top part "interferes" a bit and moves it out of position.
That's OK because all the final trimming will happen as the parts are welded in and the exact intersections are able to be determined and any interference gets cleaned up.
I'm really happy with how these turned out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, I went back to work on the the chassis stiffening. I have to so some fancy cutting / piecing to make the cross bar that will connect in at the top of the door bars.
It has to fit behind the seat head rest supports then pop out to clear the bump in the firewall, then pop back in and fit behind the other seat.
The mighty, mighty bender can't make the needed bends close enough together so I have to do the cross bar in pieces. Again, just fine for a race rod. And if I get it right, you'll be hard pressed to know it's not a one piece bar.
Anyway... I was diligently working away on fabbing the cross bar when UPS showed up...
And that was the end of my productivity.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I don't know what to say other than I couldn't take any more of Tony saying I'd be a fool not to do it...
Well, OK, that's no entirely true. I do know what to say:
I've always wanted an engine with ITBs. So what the hell. Now I have one.
This is so f-ing bad ass I can't hardly stand it.
Problem is, now I'll spend the next 2 weeks standing there staring at it and not make any progress on the build.
Attached thumbnail(s)
How are you going to control those 8 beautiful butterflys right there?
Chris - You already know what I think about it - SICK! Now that I also own two of these systems myself I am a very interested party in your tuning experience.
Hurry up so I don't have to go first!
T
PS: For once on this build it appears you don't have to modify the firewall for the stacks...how they are canted - it looks like you DID make it PERFECT! Damn!
That is going to be the best sounding LS 914 out there! SO EXCITED!
Didnt know you went with polished but I think it looks amazing!!!
Great decision there!
Getting more awesome as the build goes on. I noticed the headers and started from the page 1 to see what they were but got tired around page 20 or so. What are they? A stock shelf item for maybe a boat? Or did you have them made? Sure lays in the ideal location though.
After drooling over the intake set up for that past 24 hours, I re-hydrated and forced myself to get back to the chassis work.
Time to miter all the tubes in prep for welding.
Here's the notcher, in all it's glory, ready to cut the front hoop end of the door bar.
I set the tube in the car in the position I want it and use a simple, little plastic protractor to get the angle. Then set the notcher to that angle and cut the miter.
The only tricky part is that the hole in the firewall where the upper part of the door bar goes doesn't allow the door bar to sit quite parallel to the long. So I have to twist it just so to get it to line up. This causes the bends to sorta flare outward a bit... Hard to explain but suffice it to say that I have to cut the miter a bit out of line with the bends in the door bar.
So, here it is ready to cut. Ready... Set... CUT! (all the while praying I measured correctly and properly set all the angles...!)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yea! Measuring, checking and measuring again 47 times and cutting once pays off.
I got a really nice fit!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I cut both door bars and all went well there. Then it was on to the verticals. I figured I start with what I thought would be the hardest one. I want the tube smack in the middle of the bend so I divide that bend angle in half and cut that angle into the top of the vertical. Then it's a matter of trimming the bottom until it's the exact length to hold the door bar in parallel alignment with the long (when viewed from directly above).
I have final, final trimming yet to do on the overall length but the fit is looking really nice.
This is the first time I've done this sort of detailed fab on cage tubes. I'm happy to report that if you follow what all those YouTube videos suggest, it all goes pretty much to plan. The series I found helpful was this one:
http://thefabricatorseries.com/build-blogs//how-to-build-a-time-attack-roll-cage
He gets into some of the important tips and tricks that I found spot on and really effective.
And certainly, having some nice tools makes it go faster and (for me), more accurately. Again, I'm no expert. But I'm thrilled at how it's going.
Attached thumbnail(s)
On the ITBs just use individual filters, keep the look, I would hate to cover them up. They look so darn good
I didn't know Borla made intakes, further reading and I gather they bought or merged with TMW?
I looked at their Type IV page, I like how they gave Megasquirt a mention as well along with the high dollar EFI setups.
Today was more measuring, cutting and fitting of the various chassis stiffening bars.
Here's the cross bar I mentioned in an earlier post - the one that has to fit behind the head rest supports then pop out/in to clear the bulge in the firewall. My bender can't do the needed double s-curve in that little space so I have to make it in multiple pieces.
Before you get too excited, remember, it's not a roll cage.
Yes, I'll plug weld a sleeve in both joints as part of all this.
And yes, it's all DOM material. I've ordered 3 different times from the same supplier and each time, the product is a different color. I called and asked them about it and they said it depends on which mill it comes from. Interesting.
But it'll all be painted so no worries.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was on to the bars that will run from the back side of the seat belt retractor location to the rear shock tower. This bar will terminate on a plate that gets rosette welded to the plate that the top of the door bar lands on. That plate is not in place, I just used the hole in the firewall to help calculate the angles for all the cuts/miters.
I'm really pleased with how well these miter cuts are turning out. Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised, I just thought it'd be more difficult. Not that I'm complaining!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here are both bars mocked into place.
I think it's going to be a LOOOOOOONG time before I get tired of this view!
And fear not, I keep the intake covered and protected when I'm working on the car. But whenever the camera comes out, somehow, the covers disappear!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Final trimming of the door bar. This is where it pokes though the fire wall at the seat belt retractor location.
That last cut on the front of each of these tube was done with the hole saw and was pretty much a "one chance to get it right" cut that set the final angle and length of the door bar.
The target length was to get this end to align with the fire wall.
It literally just sits on the edge of the hole. Big sigh of relief...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Passenger side looks good, too!
And both sides will be plated and the plates rosette welded to each other.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Immma gonna need you to build me a cage when your all done
I want something I can weld to the A pillar and hide completely.
Looks fantastic!
Down 100%!
There has been a couple of events like that through the years.
Im SURE we can get lots of people interested.
THANKS!!!
Shocking news! Nearly impossible to believe: I changed my mind about the way I'm going to tie the cross bar into the suspension towers. I was going to construct a box around the whole area but upon reflection (and thinking about the earlier points about weight and complexity), I'm opting for something simple:
A tidy little gusset between the tower and cross bar, right in line with the main load path into the bar that runs to the fire wall.
I'm almost done with the fabrication and fitting of all the pieces needed for the chassis stiffening. Then it'll be a full day (or more) of welding to complete the install.
Much as I enjoy the roll bar fab stuff, I'm ready to move on a different area of the build.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like it! That area really doesnt move near as much as some people think.
The lower trailing arm pickup moves significantly more.
Final fitting of the passenger side door bar. I welded in the inside plate as I need to firmly fix the bar so I can get a repeatable location as I fit the verticals.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fore and aft verticals are trimmed to final size.
You can see that the mid vertical is sitting back, out of positon (the pad is positioned properly). I'm leaving the mid vertical trimming until the door bar is welded in. Why?
Having only two verticals will allow the bar to set into position and if the there's any welding distortion on the door bar (and I'd expect there to be some) I can tweak the mid vertical for the best possible fit.
We'll see how it goes as the welding actually commences.
Attached thumbnail(s)
More pre-welding prep leads to the Pop Quiz of the day:
What's missing in this picture?
Well, OK, a whole bunch of stuff! So maybe not so fair a question.
Let's make it a bit easier:
I removed the mounts for the trunk lid springs! I won't be using them. And they're already hard enough to get to so I REALLY wanted them out before the rear chassis stiffening bars go in.
And no promises, but I have an idea that may require / allow for removal of the rear trunk hinges, too.
Either way, I want as clean a look as I can get.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good Chris! If you want to see a different way to open tour rear trunk check out my build thread under my signature. There are three photos on page 1. Total access. You could incorporate the engine lid and trunk lid as one piece...
Or come over and check it out.
Bill B Racing (BBR Filers) filters showed up today. Recommended by Borla and apparently minimal HP loss. They certainly look the business and fit perfectly.
Not as cool looking sitting on my office floor vs on the engine, but I want to keep the delicate stuff safe while all the fab work is going on.
Attached thumbnail(s)
They look good but nothing looks better them naked...I thought you were building a "special" box for those. Change your mind?
T
I'm taking Friday, 9/1 off work to complete welding on the chassis stiffening bars! It'll be a full day but the goal is to get all that done! Fingers crossed.
And with that done, I'm nearing the point where I need to pick a color... and that gets me thinking about the overall look. While I love the RSR Fuchs look, this car is clearly not a 914/6 GT tribute so...
I'm toying with these 52 Outlaw wheels against the mid 2000s Subaru WRX blue. I think these wheels fit quite nicely with my overall "RaceRod" design.
But wheel see... (see what I did there?)
And, the blue/gold is the same combo I used on a custom SV650 I built about 12 years ago. It got a 4 page spread in Cycle World. I was pretty proud of that... plus, I went to Berkeley (Go Bears!) so blue and gold are part of my life...
Anyway, decisions, decisions. Until then, I'll be running a set of 7 and 9 x 17 Euromeisters.
Attached image(s)
Well, as usual, things take longer than I imagine they will. I'd hoped to get the chassis stiffening done today. Didn't quite make it but made BIG progress.
Final fit all but the front hoop-to-front suspension tubes, all tubes tacked in and a couple items final welded.
MAJOR MILESTONE! I'm feeling really good as it comes together.
It would be all but impossible to get all the way around some of these tubes. So after dry fitting the rear suspension-to-firewall bars and support plate, the bar/support plate were tack welded while everything was in position.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then the bar/support plate is welded on the bench.
Beautiful!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And then back in it goes and things are tacked in place.
Here's the passenger side, awaiting rosette welding.
Final, final welding of all joints is going to happen after the car is back on the rotisserie as that will make it WAY easier to get at all the nooks and crannies.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was on to fitting and tacking the door bars.
First, all measurements were triple checked then the vertical's support pads were rosette welded to the longs.
I got to use my new-to-me South Bend lathe to final fit and square up the verticals.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So, after all the head scratching, design changes, measuring, cutting, trimming, fitting, mind-changing (thanks Tony...!) and multiple redoing of many parts:
The door bars are tacked in and ready for final welding!
Today was 7 hours in a 100+ degree garage... and I can't think of anything I would have enjoyed more!
And I couldn't have done it without Martin's help. Having a skilled buddy who actually cares about your build, challenges you and makes you rethink your decisions is something I hope all of you get to experience.
What a day...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Woooo hooooo! It does feel good when you reach these milestones!
Anyway, decisions, decisions. Until then, I'll be running a set of 7 and 9 x 17 Euromeisters.
[/quote]
You could always paint up the Euromeisters to look like the spendy wheels - you could REALLY retire sooner...
Clean metal is a beautiful thing. Keep it up. Such a great project.
Today was just clean up and organize in prep to get the car back on the rotisserie to finish all the chassis stiffening welding and a couple other items:
I have to fab the the area where the seat belt retractors will bolt in, triangulate behind the firewall to support the jacking donuts, add the front sway bar mounts... things like that.
THEN, it's time to tackle the Tangerine rear suspension pick up kit. Won't that be fun...
Anyway, I couldn't resist taking a pic of how the door bar all but looks like it's one piece as it passes through the fire wall and runs to the rear suspension tower. I was hoping it'd look like that.
(so don't tell anyone it's two pieces!)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Oh, that IS nice!!
Nice ....sooo glad the shear panel holely , thinngy.was only a faze....looks like it oughta !
Remember, all this door bar business was required because the original main hoop interfered with the headrests. So, with the door bars in place, I can now get back to fabricating the cross bar.
This will be particularly fun (read: "complicated" And why wouldn't that be the case?) for a couple reasons.
The location I need the crossbar to sit isn't in line with the top part of the door bar, meaning I have to put a slight bend into each end so they tip down to meet the door bars.
Then, I have to cut the miters on both sides of the crossbar, then slide it into place. Another "one chance to be sure I bend it right and then don't cut it too short" tube...
So I made a "cheater bar" that was about a foot long. I played with this until I got the bend and the miter to fit as desired.
Something that makes it easier is that when the bender makes a bend, it leaves a witness mark. Well, not so much a mark but you can tell where on the tube the bend starts. That location corresponds with a marker on the bending die. Blah, blah... What it all means is I can use the cheater to measure/mark on the chassis where I want the bend to start. Then I can transfer that location back onto the crossbar. I load the crossbar back into the bender and align the mark with the mark on the bending die and I know I'll get things to go where I want them.
Once I have the bends in the cross bar, I set the cheater on it, aligning the bends and know where to cut the notch! Easy, no?
Fingers crossed...
Anyway, here's the seat in place. Next pic is the cheater bar in mock up on the driver side. Looks good to me.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yep, that'll work! I was thinking about your first lower bar and really liked it - this is a great compromise without compromising anything at all. Looks really slick too! What thickness are your sill plates supporting your sidebars?
I've got some of your imagination, just none of your tools!
Got to working in earnest on fitting the cross bar. My plan was essentially fool proof...!
But I proved to be a JUUUUUST enough of a fool to screw up the plan. One has to keep a sense of humor about all this stuff, which I admit is made easier when one is doing it for one's self and not trying to turn a profit.
Important item #1: triple check the orientation of the bar so you that after all your careful measurements, you don't accidentally make one of the bends with your custom tube 90 degrees out from the proper orientation.
Yup, made that mistake on the one end.
Important item #2: While trying to recoup at least the other end of the custom tube, don't use a crappy, hard to read tape measure, then misread it and make the bend in the wrong place.
Yup, made that mistake on the other end.
So... Ended up remaking the custom tube! Almost called it quits after the 2nd major error figuring it was a day of bad karma, but decided to solider on.
Here's the custom tube being remade. The good news is it turned out nearly perfect. Measurably better than the first. So maybe this was a good karma day after all...?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it became "measure like, oh, 35 times, do the same 35 measurements again and then double check the results" before proceeding.
After all that, I cut the notches in each end, which I happily admit I left long, just to be sure.
Here's the initial fit, which I expected wouldn't be quite right: the bar is a bit long on each end, preventing it from sliding all the way back into position. The good news is that the center line of the cross bar lines up exactly with the center line on the chassis.
I have final fitting yet to do but after 4 hours of working on just this tube, it's nearly there!
When done, it'll sit maybe 1/8"+ ahead of the fire wall, leaving just enough room to slip a shoulder harness through.
And I'm still working on a design to tie the cross bar more securely to the fire wall. I expect it'll also serve as the starting point for the console. More on that soon.
Attached thumbnail(s)
BTW Chris, your rear window is a fairly rare optional rear window defogger type. Pull it and switch it with a plexiglass one so someone can option up their car...
Oh man, reminds me of a rear window swap 15 years ago because of wires within. Nobody will use them, best to the CCW types. I hope they make them heat them up! or pshhh
To final trim the ends of the cross bar, I used an oscillating spindle sander. I'm using 1.5" tubing so simply slip on the 1.5" barrel and away you go.
It worked really well and is super easy to control when you're trying to sneak up on a final dimension. You can even tweak the miter angle a bit, as needed, to get the nicest possible fit.
(Insert yet to be invented "grinder" emoji here.)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Oscillate, oscillate, check... oscillate, oscillate, check. And... it's a fit!
And while I am not yet 100% sure on just how much clearance I'll leave behind the cross bar, here it is, essentially in the final location, complete with the welds disappeared. Once it's all painted, it'll look like it was made from a single piece of tube.
Re: the top view: I have a 3" radius die and probably could have gotten the cross bar to better match the fire wall hump but I wanted to honor the "bend radius must be no less than 3x tube diameter", so the 6" radius will have to do.
The mistakes I made while fabbing this tube made it seem like it was more work than it really was (once I did it correctly!). In the end, I got the result I wanted, so it's all good.
So now it's on to fabrication of the tubes from the front hoop to the front suspension towers!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'd have run the tube straight. Let it go through the firewall shapes instead of conforming around them. Engineer, don't comply. But then, I'm crude and don't do noodles.
I'm not criticizing. Just sharing thoughts. Your workmanship is amazing.
Beautiful work. your fabrication skills are humbling.
I'm not sure that tube would interfere with the "induction" of an air cooled engine, let alone your LS3.
Love those ITBs.
EDIT: Never mind, I was thinking airflow, not clearance. But I'm guessing your air intake won't be pointing toward the firewall.
And the payoff is...
The seats now slide all the way back with no interference.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow, that's an awesome look Chris!! From the front view the harness bar flows perfectly into the door bars. Very nice!!
BTW:The multi-piece bar looks good-first look I thought it was a single piece and couldn't figure out how you could make so many perfect bends without a CNC bender.
...not bad for beginner.
Looks great.
T
Thanks for the nice compliments, everyone. I admit I'm totally enamored with each new step I complete. I keep wandering back into the shop and just stand there, looking at the latest progress...
OK, on to other stuff. Each time I think I'm ready to "finish" a particular area of the car, I realize I've forgotten something. The latest is that I was about to start on closing off parts of the lower firewall and I realized I had to account for the seat belt retractors.
Then I started looking into how I'll need to mount the AC compressor and realized I'm nowhere near ready to close up in that area.
As always, I need to see things physically to be sure about fitment so I'm ordering this set up that mounts the compressor down low on the passenger side.
It runs off the rear pulley line so I think it'll set back away from the firewall and not create any significant clearance issues.
It may require I move the electric water pump but that shouldn't be too big a deal.
I'm new to AC stuff so those of you with experience and opinions, please chime in and let me know if I'm headed in a good or bad direction with any of this.
Attached image(s)
Keep the weight down low! Easy access to lines is nice. Just make sure thats all flexible lines in that area so you have enough room to pull the compressor off and move it out of the way if you need to remove the engine. That way you dont need to recharge your system every time you pull the engine. Maybe even making a spot you can temporarily mount the compressor on the body with the lines attached? Spitballing.
"I keep wandering back into the shop and just stand there, looking at the latest progress..."
Build is coming along great, and those trips to the shop is what causes all the inspiration.
Keep up the good work
Timing is everything...
Krieger (Andy) was kind enough to host me for a visit to check out his car(s). Two REALLY nice rides! Thanks again, Andy!
Long story short, I decided to abandon my initial idea for a mod to the rear trunk hinges and follow Andy's lead of running the reverse opening rear trunk lid. It solves a few problems for me and makes for unencumbered access to the entire drive train.
The mod uses the front hood hinge assembly from a late '80s Buick LeSabre. (Hey, I have a Chevy engine so what's the harm in some more American iron parts?)
Anyway, back to "timing is everything". The nearest Pick & Pull that had a suitable LeSabre was in Sacramento. My wife and I happened to be vacationing up in the Tahoe area this past week...
"Honey? Um, would you mind if we stopped at a junk yard on the way home?"
The World's Greatest Wife says, "Sure."
Well, OK then!
Thankfully, the car they had hadn't sustained any front end damage and I was able to con a guy into loaning me the needed tools and even lend a hand in removing the hinge assembly.
AND, it's even blue! I think it was meant to be. A bit of modification is needed to make it all work but I'm happy to be able to check off another of the "how should I do this?" items on the to-do list.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice work! I was in the neighborhood and thought I should call but just then my wife called and said "don't you be thinking about no race car boy! "
Well, the part about being in the neighborhood and her calling is true.
Next time I'll call...
I like it!
User "drive-ability" here did a reverse opening trunk. He made some great posts on it that might have some useful ideas, but I'm not finding them yet.
Found his youtube video though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwXNy-zp6ZE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwXNy-zp6ZE
BMW 320i/325I front hood hinges are almost a bolt end for the 914 rear trunk lid to hinge to the rear. I have some old pics I'll look for them.
Bob
Oh boy now you are going to make me want to do that. Maybe as i finish up my welding on my car this will be the next project.
You using 20ga? Or 18?
Hold on now Chris...I thought you were trying to get the car on the ROAD? You just can't help yourself...a different take on ADD!
Tony
The Dirty Dingo LS low mount A/C kit fits! Using the mini compressor seems like the way to go, given everything else that's happening down there.
The mock up shows no interference, but I do have to get my shift cables thorough there somehow...
And I may decide to move the passenger side firewall upright.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And now for something completely different: I'm working on the front of my car!
Spent a good part of today doing the final bending, notching and fitting of the front hoop-to-front suspension chassis bars.
These were tough to fit. A pretty steep angle coming off the front hoop then the bend had to be just right to land it on target. LOTS of fiddling to get them right.
Here's a pic of the first bit of seam welding, prior to tacking in the bar passenger side bar. More will be done. This was just to avoid having to weld under the bar, once it's in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One side tacked in. And before you climb all over me for not putting pads down first, this isn't a safety cage, it's for chassis stiffening. There's a fair bit of structure in that tower so for my purposes, I'm good with this approach. I'm also looking at adding some gusseting.
And worst case, if any issues develop, I'll address them at that point.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Both front hoop-to-front suspension bars are tacked in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hoop/front bar intersection. I may add a couple little gussets...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Artsy-fartsy shot that might accompany a little ditty that's sung to the tune of "the leg bone's connected to the: knee bone..."
My version goes: "The rear tower's are connected to the: door bars. The door bars connect into the: front hoop..."
Hey, it's early here in CA and I'm on serious medication to combat this dang cold that's going around.
The good news is that with final welding of what you see here, the chassis stiffening chapter will be complete! Major milestone.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Don't add "little ones"...you will awaken Rudy.
T
Great work. Congratulations on hitting this milestone! Hope your feeling better soon.
Fantastic work Chris as usuall. ..Hmmm I beginning to wonder if you helped design
the Maserati birdcage race cars!
Feel better soon mate.
On the rotisserie once again! I pulled all the suspension then spent a bit of time scrapping off that wonderful undercoating.
Everything looks really nice underneath it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It also made it really easy to finish up the last bits of welding and all the metal finishing on the floor. Turned out quite nicely.
I'm going to do a tinted bedliner kind of thing on the underside and that will cover any of the minor imperfections. Should look pretty killer at that point.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Now it's on to the rear jack points. The custom lower fire wall means I have a bit of fab work ahead of me before that area is complete.
Access is SOOOOO nice with the chassis up high and able to be spun around to any angle needed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice! More inspiration to keep me going!
And what better way to end the day than with a visit from my friendly UPS guy!
Here they are, in all their glory: the custom SpeedHut gauge set:
Quad gauge with the added oil temp, fuel level in the speedo, etc.
Pardon the "poor perspective" pic. Yes, it's 4" quad and speedo, 4 1/2" tach.
So nice! I LOVE 'em!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Are you going to need all of that speedo???
Chris looks great.. Mine is about to go back on the rotisserie for the final details as well.
Send it back again (or call in changes)...at least 160! I can attest that YOUR engine in a 914 is good for a bit more...
PS: A 140 mph speedo is found in like a...Ford Focus. Just sayin...
Tony
Getting ready to install the Tangerine Racing rear pick up kit. I want all the advantages I can get when it comes to measurement capabilities so I treated myself to a used Spitznagel! (It's more fun to pronounce it with a German accent...)
As I was researching I found that these are claimed to be accurate to 1mm whereas the knock-of versions are only accurate to 3mm. I got this on Ebay for approx. the same price as a shorter length, new knock-off.
Once I'm done with my install, I'd be happy to make it available to others in need.
(I'm takin' to you, Dion! )
Attached thumbnail(s)
Got the rear jack triangles installed today.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's one example of what happens when you build a custom lower firewall:
You end up with a passage way from the engine compartment, under the lower cross bar and right into the passenger compartment!
I'll have to do something about this... but at least I can verify I got good penetration on those welds!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I got started on the MadDog Motorsports front sway bar stiffening plate install.
I removed the brake hose tab and all the factory paint/undercoat. Exciting, I know...
Next, it's mock it all up and drill the holes for the sway bar/mounting plate.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Just weld the plate on and use it as your guide. BTW, I still add a nut plate to the back side.
Do yourself a huge favor unless your box section is cut and don't do it. Brad's Kit is so nice, I will never cut another 914 box section again.
Since you have the MadDogg mount, just weld a nut to the lower bolt hole. Then make a bracket with two nuts for the top, and weld them inside. In reality you most likely could just weld all three mounting holes with a nut on the back side, drill your holes and weld it on.
I love to weld, so I'll go with the welding sandwich
Stephen -
Yep, I used Brad's kit on my '74 and it was really nice.I have the MadDog triangle mount with the nuts welded on all three corners. I was going to cut it down to make it like Brad's. Easy peasy, as they say.
Before I try and button up things like that gap in the rear floor/jack triangle, I need to be sure all other "major" stuff is in place.
Today, it's establishing the relocated seat belt retractor mounts. These have to be moved due to where I routed the upper portion of the door bars.
And again, more fun due to the custom lower firewall:
In order to function correctly, the seat belt retractor mechanism MUST sit exactly upright. Well, my fancy fire wall isn't straight up and down. I moved the lower cross bar forward to be sure I had plenty of clearance for the engine damper.
So, a bit of notching here, a but of fitting there and the passenger side is mocked in.
Hard to tell from that first pic but the other support really does lean back.
I still have to fab a threaded boss for the retractor to bolt to. I'm thinking it'll be a blind tapped boss that's plug welded from the back side of this brace then welded all around the front side.
The good news is the fact that the retractor is recessed into the firewall. This means there's room for the seats to slide back. Best of all, the chrome belt guide that mounts behind the retractor comes forward just the right amount that the belt nicely clears the upper fire wall cross bar!
I love it when a plan comes together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Completed the driver side mock up.
I'll do the threaded bung work on the bench then install these supports in the chassis.
While I was at it, I finished up the rosette welding on those door bar verticals' support pads. Just didn't get a pic of that today.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Back to installing the front sway bar mounting points. I went with the Elephant Racing bladed adjustable sway bar. It's big - just under 1.5" OD. That's the Elephant backing plate along side the MadDog reinforcement plate.
Nothing the 1.5" hole saw can't handle.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That really is a big hole. I'd say anyone thinking of going with this sway bar really should add the MadDog sway bar reinforcement kit.
And I hogged out the lower hole to account for the welded-on-bolt approach vs cutting the inner sheet metal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Modified passenger reinforcement plate with 1.5" hole and welded on lower nut vs standard.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Thats about the size hole I drilled for my nascar sway bar! I didnt mount it via the inner fender though. Good work as usual
Are you going to leave the jack pads as is? I have found them weak from the factory and a bit oddly shaped i think a deep V or a square tube would be better for jack stands or lifting the car up on a jack. Just saying your doing all these other awesome mods. Oh and consider a center jack point on the front firewall. I used that when lowering the car into position for the engine fitting and found there really wasnt enough support and crushed some steel a bit. Nothing I really care about just something I plan on reinforcing in the future for better use.
Finished all the needed mods and got things positioned for the driver side. Here's just a set up shot of how I used the templates to determine where to drill all the holes:
- trim the template
- to set the height, measure down 1/2" from the top of the inner part of the indent and scribe a line
- measure the width at the bottom of the indent, mark the middle
- use a level and scribe a vertical center line
- tape the template in place (the angle of the camera makes it look like things aren't quite lined up...)
- mark where to drill the holes (I use a spring loaded center punch)
- drill and hole saw accordingly
Attached thumbnail(s)
Artsy-fartsy shot through one hole looking to the one on the other side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the Elephant backer plate, trimmed to work with the welded on lower nut approach.
Rather than cut the backer plate so it sits just above that step in the sheet metal, I've started notching the back side. You can see I still have some tweaking to do to get it to lay down flat. I figured leaving this so it fully wraps around the bar will add just that much more strength to the area.
Almost ready for final welding of all this!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have so many things to get to...
I had to move some parts around and ended up getting distracted by the front bumper. I need to ventilate it and have been thinking about various designs.
This one has a couple significant dents in it so I figured I'd use it to practice.
I don't know what size opening I need but I wanted something more aggressive looking than the traditional GT look. So I started with this:
- wider, taller and with a bit of a taper
I may go a bit wider but I'll wait til I get it back on the car to make that decision.
Essentially, I'm headed toward the look in the 2nd pic. Pardon my usual MS Paint hack (especially if it's your car!)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Bumper looks good. Should be enough flow, especially if you duct the exhaust.
I planned for 50% larger. Also when I mean duct I meant similar to what Kent just did, forcing the air to go where you want and separating it.
My former neighbor, vehicle designer and race car aero consultant, told me the general rule is 1.7x intake area. It does however, depend on the characteristics of the exhaust placement/configuration. The whole concept has to do with pressure differential, exhaust has to be in a lower pressure zone than the intake. Since the thru-wheel well exhaust has been done for a long time (mature technology), I'd go with what has worked in the past. BIGCAT has used a smaller than normal intake with great success; might give him a shout.
Andys
Your car is going to be crazy fast. Is the downforce difference between wheel well exit vs hood exit something to consider?
It will no matter...his speedo only goes to 140!
T
Tony, you gotta stop going through the extra effort to fix the replies to the top. It's a disruption to how we are used to reading around here. :/
We won't know how fast Chris' is for a while. But dang hey, that's some sweet metal work.
Sway bar reinforcement all mocked in and ready for welding.
I understand I'm not alone in needing to trim the MadDog reinforcement plate to get an optimal fit.
You can see it's a bit proud of the edge on the lower inside areas, front and rear.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And I couldn't resist putting the bar in. The Elephant products are SOOOOOO beautiful...
Click on the pic if you'd like to take a closer look.
This is the sort of part that makes the rest of the car look really tired. Granted, it's in need of blasting, etc. But seeing this sort of fancy/functional item in place helps keep me motivated.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It looks really nice Chris...just what every 914 hot rod needs - a 1G sway bar!
T
That is one pretty sway bar Chris! The blade is just soooo cool!
$1G Andyrew
Tony
I know whats what YOU said, I was responding to Chris's post
This morning started with me final fabricating, tapping and fitting the seat belt support bosses. All set for welding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Let's mock it in with the seat in place, just to be sure everything fits...
(And yes, I'll close up the back side of the threaded boss.)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Slide the seat ALL the way back and...
We have clearance, Clarence!
You gotta love how the stock shape of the belt guide holds things forward and perfectly suits the retractor being recessed into the lower fire wall.
Neat little detail that no one will even notice...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sit and buckle up. I'm not sure the belt is long enough stock, but the belt can be replaced.
Martin made time to help me today. You know what that means:
Time for major welding porn!!!
Let's start with the seat belt mounts.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice fit! Lmk if you need them fancy bolts with a shoulder.
Every time I see your work, I feel like a Neanderthal playing with rocks on my project.
You are all too kind and I appreciate all the encouraging words.
Back to the seat belt retractor mounts. I decided to reshape the lower section of the braces to close off any opening into the brace and to make it easier to get it fully welded to the lower cross bar.
The mods are all done and both braces are tacked in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I got the passenger side sway bar reinforcement plate all welded in. Still need to dress the welds. It'll get seam sealed after primer is sprayed.
That was a long weekend of fabrication and welding. I feel like a lot got done.
And yet so much remains to be designed and built.
A friend of mine says "You should get a white board and write down everything that you need to do..."
I think if I did that, and faced the reality of what's ahead, it would scare the crap out of me and I'd stop the build.
So I'll end this weekend with this pic and a comment:
Sometimes you just have to step back and look at the big picture.
Man, I'm loving how this car is shaping up...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Get it done so you can
Inguiring minds need to know, how much fill rod / Mig Wire, and how many bottles of Argon Argon/CO2 have you burned thru?
Only reason I ask is people seem to think I spend to much time with my
I on my third 11 pound spool also, just upgraded my tank, I had an 80, burned thru 4 of them. I am now on my first 150 Argon / Co2 for the Mig. TIG I have gone through a 3 sleeves of filler rod, and several tungstens, most damaged due to improper / learning to sharpen tungstens. And on my first 180 tank of Argon.
Worst part is I have a leak on my argon co2 line that had gone undetected for a bit.. Now all is good.. I am almost all done welding though on my project.
Chris probably has more welding to do then I
I'll be picking up my third 80 bottle of C25 today and that will easily get me to the finish line. And I think I'll make it through with only one 11 lb. spool of .023 plus a little easy grind for the body sheets. Would have been even less if I were a better welder. But I'm not building my car from scratch like you guys.
I am running .030 so less wire per spool for me..
I have no idea how much wire/gas I've used on the car since I also use the same welding rig for all the work I do as part of my little side business: Red Barn Yard Art.
So it got used for all the WCR items, the Porsche crests, etc.
I have gotten better at paying attention to supplies so I always have a spare bottle and 10lb spool for the MIG. I use .023 for when I'm doing sheet metal and .030 for the structural work.
The TIG rig has one of those giant bottles so I just have to keep an eye on that.
But what do I know only taught high level welding for the last 20 years
These are headers I just finished up.. No grinding on this
Gotcha. Totally get it on the butt welds. Beautiful headers! Huge respect to the great welders.
The grinding comment just brought up the image of the "eagle crap" welds I've seen.
914 Rubber's GT Headlight Kit arrived today!
Attached thumbnail(s)
As usual, I'm all over the place. This evening, it was narrowing the flip rear trunk hinge. The Buick it came from is a bit wider than a 914...
I cut the cross bar in the middle then clamped each hinge half to the underside of the trunk seal channel, where that part will eventually be bolted. Then I tied the now overlapping crossbars to each other and determined center, then cut equal amounts off each side.
I then used the lathe to turn down a suitable bolt to make a slug that I plug welded into the cross bars. I'm determined to doing everything I can with TIG vs MIG and this was a good little project for that. So...A little TIG-ity, TIG and... one narrowed flip trunk hinge!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Love it.. Its on my short list but gotta spend 400 on a set of refurbished rockers..
I like it!
The chassis stiffening is nearly completed. Got the seat belt retractor mounts welded in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Final rear suspension tower reinforcement.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Locking down the rear suspension-to-fire wall support pad.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Finished installing the MadDog Motorsports front sway bar reinforcement plates.
I decided to to tidy up the rosette welds. Once it's back from blasting and epoxy prime, I'll seam seal around the perimeter. That'll all but disappear the wonky weld lines.
And the Elephant sway bar has their magical misalignment bushings. The bar literally swings, there's so little stiction. Really impressive.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Brake line brackets installed and a little primer to protect things for now...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Back to the flip trunk hinge.
I worked out the hinge attachment location. (Andy/Krieger was kind enough to let me measure and photograph his installation. Thanks Andy!)
Attached thumbnail(s)
I bolted the trunk lid to the stock hinges and adjusted the fit.
Then, with the flip hinge in place and the trunk shut, I can climb under and mark where to install the threaded bosses in the outer stiffener panel of the trunk lid.
I still have final trimming and finishing on that one part of the hinge so pardon the sharp edges!
Attached thumbnail(s)
The similar color and your attention to detail will helps it look OEM!
That is going to be one impressive rear trunk lid. Cannot wait for videos of it in action.
Really slick Chris...the King of fabrication!!!
Tony
Chris I would love to see the measurements, as I have the same setup in my shop, waiting.
This morning was fabrication of the flip trunk threaded bosses and reinforcement plates that I'll plug weld onto the underside of the trunk, along the outer stiffeners.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Now to measure for and cut the bosses, weld them to the plates, drill the reinforcement plates for rosette welding and get these installed on the trunk.
Attached thumbnail(s)
More great work I see you have been up to.
Don't worry, I'll make it look pretty enough to install on that work of art of yours!
double post... delete me .....
I'm trying to sneak in an hour here and there to keep things moving along during the week. So this evening, I was able to get the flip trunk bosses cut down and welded to the reinforcement plates. Boring, yes. But it's all gotta be done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great news! After 17 years of cutting, welding, sawzall deconstruction, And finally engine installation, Chris has finally finished the car!
Attached image(s)
Final steps in the flip trunk.
First, figure out the location of the threaded bosses and drill for clearance.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I removed all the paint under the stiffener plate and sprayed weld-through primer on the trunk lid and back side of the stiffener.
Then clamp for location. Very light clamping pressure, please!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I just tacked the corners of the stiffener plates and trial fitted everything.
I hadn't welded the cross bar together since I first wanted to get the entire assembly mocked up. Good thing, as it needed to be narrowed just a bit to allow everything to align nicely.
I still have to modify the part of the hinge plates that bolt to the trunk lid as they are still "Buick", as well as work out some sort of stop/rest for when it's in the full open position - which this picture isn't. It folds back much further and drops down lower behind the car. And I have what I think is a pretty cool idea for how to locate and secure the front edge... More on that as I get to it.
In the meantime, here it is: One (almost ready to go) flip trunk!
Big thanks again to Andy (Krieger) for having done this to his car. Seeing it in person made it a no-brainer decision for me. Thanks Andy!!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D21URm1SNFE
Finished welding the support pads to the trunk.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Really impressive Chris!
Tony
Then I started on closing up the underside of the rear suspension tower stiffener I added way back when. Here're the before and afters.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I trimmed and seam welded the top side of the passenger rear suspension tower stiffening panel. The driver side is on the schedule for the next shop session.
I also got the passenger side front bumper brace welded in. As a BUB car, my chassis didn't have them. I salvaged the pieces from the '72 parts car.
In all, I think it was a pretty productive day.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks awesome my brother!
I'm fortunate to be able to work from home and today, I took my lunch hour and got busy prepping the driver side rear suspension tower for finalization of the stiffening components.
Here's the before of the underside of the triangulation plate that starts at the long and wraps the tower. Ahead of welding, everything will be primed on the inside...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Easy piece to fab. Paper template to start then some final tuning to get a nice tight fit.
That "loose" piece of sheet metal (the vertical one in the pic) is the front side of the suspension tower. It gets sandwiched between the plate I'm holding and the rear of the tower. Once welded, it'll all be nicely locked down.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Car is off the rotisserie so I can get the tunnel built and determine what I need to fab to support all the systems: fuel, electrical, shifter cables, A/C lines, throttle cable, hydraulics for clutch and brakes...
But for now, here's a better look at why I love this trunk hinge set up: Access to everything!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'm running the Numeric Racing Boxster shifter and don't plan to run a boot. It comes with the notched top to work with the stock Boxster shift knob. I like the NRG knob, which is threaded so that shift shaft had to be "adjusted".
Here's the modded part with a stainless bolt welded and blended onto the end.
Next will be a tapered aluminum sleve/jam nut set up to cover the exposed threads.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I put my draft version of the cut out bumper on, just to see. I think I like it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks a little small IMHO. Maybe Im wrong, could be the same size as the 916 cutout.
That shifter is awesome!!
Got the base of the tunnel/console fabricated. I drilled holes in the floor so it'll be rosette welded all along the underside.
Not yet sure how I'm going to tie in the cross brace.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The drive train is back in so I could get going on the tunnel, determine exactly where the shifter would go, etc.
So I couldn't resist messing with the induction. I hadn't played with the valley cover. It's pretty.
Not sure if I'll leave that throttle set up as is or try and move the stop and see if I can hide the throttle cable vs having it run out the rear and loop back forward. We'll see.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And one of the mock-up of the likely shifter location... And for you funny guys:
I'll use metal and not cardboard in the final installation.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice shifter, great attention to detail with the serrations on the adjustable clamps!
Dont forget the seatbelt anchors Before you move on and cover that area up...
Minor update: Got the spacer done to cover the extra threaded area.
One more mod to go on the shifter. If you guess what it's going to be, you'll win a "You win!" comment from me!
Attached thumbnail(s)
All the good ones use CAD (Carboard Aided Design) I have a tone of them around, and well, I don't consider myself that good.
With both pedal sets inside it looks like your building a dual control car? That is a great idea for long drives or when you have an instructor for time trialing
Playing with console layout ideas. I like this height for the shift tower. Now I need to determine if I want to tie it into the front hoop, as pictured, or flip the tubes and have the whole thing "stay low", more like the stock tunnel.
Either way, I'll have other tubes tie in higher up on the firewall.
Decisions, decisions...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Tie it into the hoop as pictured. Kinda gives it that modern Porsche look.
So, low it is. Here's the main top section. I still have to tie in the front to that plate that's rosetted to the front fire wall. I'm thinking two horizontals should do it.
Then I'll figure out something to tie in the rear fire wall. Still noodling on a couple different ideas.
Pics are out of time sequence. The 2nd one is pre having added the cross braces. It's the same height and all that...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Are you going to build it so it has any storage space? (What can I say, I've gotten spoiled driving newer vehicles with center console storage. )
Mocked in the shifter mounting bosses and had to try in out.
The tunnel isn't welded in yet and the shift cable aren't adjusted so pardon the noises, but man, this thing is snick, snick and SOOOOO positive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEJe2BXhvtY
Continuing work on the console. The rear section will become the cubbie/storage area.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looks great, don't you ever sleep? Too productive!
With all the time I've put into the chassis stiffening/roadster cage and now this console, I've decided to name this part of the build "Jail Time". Why?
I've spent a lot of time behind bars!
And yes, I spent time
to get the angle of the rear part of the console to match the angle of the door bars. Details, details...
Attached thumbnail(s)
A couple requisite artsy-fartsy shots...
I'm happy with how this is turning out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow! Gotta get down there! You hit the hyperspace button!
I like it! Kinda the idea I had for mine! I like tying it into the front hoop though.
But this makes it easier to put the finishing touches on
Finished today by getting started on the pedal mount. First step is to level out that area. This piece gets me started.
Attached thumbnail(s)
How ate you attaching the plate to the floor...or is there a second plate as well? If there is not, I believe you might find that is too small Chris.
T
Fabbing the last few pieces of the console/tunnel. I'll probably triangulate down the passenger side but I have a neat little thing planned for the driver side...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I am a top supporter of your work. At some risk I can't help asking... Why the spaghetti? It's very noodley. I LOVE curves, mind you, I'm just feeling too much of them. WOW, now THAT's something I'd never hear myself saying.
Less metal for same function?
Having said that, I offer myself as your new shop clinician. Please hire me. I'll keep it cleaner than a tit on a distributor, and yes I know what that means and DD will back me up.
Christmas came early yesterday.
Mueller (Mike) stopped by for a visit and brought me this WAY COOL emblem he made! He had his twin girls with him, too. Totally enjoyable! My wife hung out with them while Mike and I got to know each other while poking around in the Red Barn.
Mike's a great guy, as I'm sure you'd all guess.
Great meeting you Mike! Hope to see you again soon.
Attached thumbnail(s)
As I'm fitting the pedals, I'm running into the lack of space at the front of the foot box area. One small change is that Tilton recently released a master cyl design that has options for a line outlet out the top.
This saves me the space I'd otherwise need for a banjo fitting and fastener.
New ones installed, "old" one for comparison.
So, yes: I replace brand new, unused parts that hadn't even been installed.
Why would this part of the build be any different?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hi Chris,
thanks for letting me and my twins slowing you down from making any progress yesterday for a few hours.
It was great meeting you and your wife in person. Lovely house and too cool "Red Barn" Thanks for the measurement tools, I will make sure any extras will find a deserving home.
I just want to say how cool this build is to see in person, many details left out in pictures that are easier to see in real life. Your artistry and craftsmanship are being put to good use here. I see an award or 2 when you finally bring that car out to a event (which I know winning an award is not your goal )
Thanks again, and next time I come up there I'll make sure to bring some shop clothes so I can give you hand if need be.
I decided to extend the pedal plate mount. The pedal assembly attaches via flanged nuts I welded to the underside . The inboard two clear the floor due to the recess in that area but the outboard two required holes be opened in the floor. I'll seal those off, not sure exactly how...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I started playing with a heel rest (that'll eliminate any flex in the floor!) and dead pedal. I'm thinking I'll fold some sheet metal and add some dimple die holes. Still some design work to do...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow! Nicce tight fit and no cutting For a change!
Will you get enough clutch pedal trade before you foot hits the structure to the left of it?. Idk anything about that pedal assembly.
No issue with the functional space with the clutch...I am running the same pedal set in the exact same location. You are fine Chris. I am a little concerned with the console structure and the gas pedal...but you will know best seated in the car. Hard to tell with pics only...
Looks pretty good...
Tony
Andy, Tony - Yep, the pics aren't great at showing how things really fit. As Tony says, no issues with the clutch pedal clearance.
As to the throttle/console, there's room... but, as usual, now that I've seen it and looked at it a bunch, I'm scrapping the current console. More on that as I get to it.
As I'm remaking the console, I've again come face to face with that universal truth:
It really is the angle of the dangle...
Attached thumbnail(s)
It was a fiddly day to get the rear section of the console pretty much done. Fiddly because of all the "angle matchy-match" I was after.
It took the better part of the day but I the angle of the top section of the console matches the main section of the door bars and that first, dropped angle section matches the 45 degree of the rear-most part of the door bar, where it heads back up to the top of the fire wall.
Another of those things that'll likely never be noticed. But I'll know it's there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wrapped up the new, abbreviated console rough-in. I like this one better... Let's see if that lasts!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And Seat Belt Planet delivered the custom belts. I added 15" to accommodate the lowered retractor location. I also went with a webbed (vs wire) buckle side. Then I changed over to the top release buckle as it can fit through the slots in the seats.
They fit really well and are quite comfortable. So far, so good.
Attached thumbnail(s)
you had me at Angle Matchy-Match... All I could do today was get my plasma-cutter working n some leaves raked.. Merry Xmas everyone
Get on the Tangerine rear console raise before this slacker beats you to it.
In reality your making much better progress than I am on my conversion car.
Would love for you to bite off the console before I get there, I am planning on building a frame jig, just to make sure I don't screw it up.
Your console has "levels"...cool!
Tony
I mistakenly took my e-brake remnants to Cary's in OR, but he was kind enough to return them! So part of today was figuring where they'd go. The good news is that with a couple correctly angled holes in the lower cross brace, essentially straight below where they're sitting, these'll end up in the same locations as stock!
Love it...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the planned location for the e-brake handle. Forward of stock and with no "cut out" but it'll do just fine. And yes, it's rotated forward so once it's welded in, the handle won't touch the floor.
I'll have to lengthen the connection to reach the e-brake cables but that shouldn't be too big a deal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Oh, I also added a small access opening...
Attached thumbnail(s)
It did to occur to me until peering through the access panel but I have had issues with those plastic manifold connectors leaking. I'd suggest moving to proper braided lines...sorry for the late notice. Here is mine...its not pretty but its as tidy as I pull off. Come to think of it...the picture below IS your engine!
Tony
That is one plain looking water distribution block, it needs some 3D profiling or pockets or something to match the rest of the motor.
stock hand brake
who authorized that
More progress on the "unauthorized" stock e-brake set up...
Next step is to braze them in, just like factory.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was on to fab work related to the "inspection cover" area. The first step is to reinforce the area I removed.
So, out comes the roll bender and some 1/8 steel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
In place with some holes for rosette welding to the lip of the rear part of the fire wall.
Attached thumbnail(s)
You have the coolest toys.
First reinforcement piece in place. Let's call this one the "inner" reinforcement...
Attached thumbnail(s)
...because here comes the "outer" reinforcement. I want this outer piece to be angled at a particular angle so I can use it as a take off for the removable inspection panel.
So, I started with a paper template. The fun part is to make a flat plate end up at angle but have straight edges, the paper pattern needed to be a curve.
Plus this needs to be roll bent... More fiddly, fiddly.
There was only a little cursing when I screwed up my first attempt.
But with more, um "experience", Attempt #2 worked!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the angle I was after?
The measuring/template making worked!
(the gap you see is because the vice grips pull it ever so slightly out of position...)
The angle matches the seat back. Silly, I know but there you go...
The real reason I need that angle, or something close to it, is to get the firewall forward enough to clear the fuel lines/fittings.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And once this is all welded in, I'll redo the cross bar.
I ended up not liking how much the initial design protruded into the interior space.
This is much cleaner.
And I forgot to mention, I'll plate between the inner and outer reinforcement pieces to tie the whole deal together. In all, it'll be plenty strong for the RaceRod.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Console all welded. Looks like this is the design I'll be sticking with...
Attached thumbnail(s)
...well the shifter certainly won't break free! Looks really great Chris!
T
Beads of commitment.
After thinking about how I want the access cover to work, and things like routing fuel lines into the engine compartment, I rethought the rear of the console.
- the 1" square frame will serve as the "landing zone" for the front base of the access cover (easier to seal against a flat surface)
- the space within it will be plated and serve as the mounting area for the bulkhead fittings for the fuel lines (and possibly the rear brake line and throttle cable) as they move from inside the console to inside the engine compartment. Should work nicely.
If only I had the entire plan in my head vs making it up as I go, I wonder how much farther along I'd be... Ah, well.
Attached thumbnail(s)
As I'm working to fabricate the fire wall access panel and looking at the other sheet metal work I have to do, I realized I don't yet have the skills I need to get the results at the level of quality I want.
So the project is going on a "sorta hold" while I practice. To help speed this along, I've signed up to take a 4-day coach building course from Wray Schelin (Pro Shaper) in MA.
http://www.proshaper.com/
In the meantime, here's a small hood scoop practice project I did. It turned out nicely but it just feels like much of it was luck. So, off to school I go...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris that looks like fun but wow a long schedule.. 9 am to 10pm each day?? I would be pretty worn out. I am sure I could get my work to pay for it though..
I've been meaning to say something about your lack of skills, but wanted to be polite. Man, I would kill for your lack of skills! That coach building class should be a blast. Can't wait to see what you build when you come back!
Chris - You never cease to amaze me!
T
Enjoy Chris. Can’t wait to see the next chapter of this project.
Great work, well though out, detailed.
You're pretty close. I live right around there too and would love to meet.
When is the class? So jealous!!
Dad, can I go with you? That looks really cool.
My dad took a one week course from Fay Butler, also in western Mass. when he started his airplane restoration. He also took me to visit Fay one time to talk about which Pulmax to look for. His shop was in a very old building in the middle of no-where.
I bought some sheet metal from Wray a few years ago when his shop was still in CT.
Some of you know I do "yard art", decorative gates and the like, as another hobby/business. That makes it a little easier to justify some of the things I do. One upcoming project I have is to make a large, sheet metal fire place surround. Given that, and all the sheet metal stuff I want to do on the RaceRod, I treated myself to a magnetic brake.
Haven't even plugged it in but expect to road test it this weekend.
If any of you local guys need metal bent, please feel free to come on over!
Attached thumbnail(s)
[quote name='tygaboy' date='Jan 26 2018, 02:47 PM' post='2572046']
...I treated myself to a magnetic brake.
[quote name='tygaboy' date='Jan 26 2018, 02:47 PM' post='2572046']
Wow. That's awesome!! I've always wondered how well they work, can't wait to read a "review." What did you get for fingers with it?
[quote name='jd74914' date='Jan 26 2018, 01:43 PM' post='2572077']
[quote name='tygaboy' date='Jan 26 2018, 02:47 PM' post='2572046']
...I treated myself to a magnetic brake.
[quote name='tygaboy' date='Jan 26 2018, 02:47 PM' post='2572046']
Wow. That's awesome!! I've always wondered how well they work, can't wait to read a "review." What did you get for fingers with it?
[/quote]
It comes with a full width bar, a full width bar with random slots so you can fold various size box/pans by sliding the work to a location where the existing folds fit, and it has an assortment of various sized fingers from half width on down.
What's even cooler is that you can use a tube/pipe instead of the fingers and it'll bend that radius!
Here's a vid that shows it in action. The radius bending starts at 4:09:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWvMW1Zxoyc
Attached image(s)
Back to working on the console/tunnel and I got to use the mag bender. I played with it to start the learning process then was able to put it to actual use on fabbing a bulkhead for the fuel lines to facilitate the transition for the hard to soft lines.
This is likely a practice piece but it turned out pretty well.
It's also nice that the console design let's me take it in and out of the car so I can do this sort of work on the bench. It'd be a royal pain to do this going in and out of the car...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here it is in place. The hard lines will run back to another bulkhead at the rear of the console and the soft lines will run up through the same location as stock: through that there oval hole.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The fabrication and metalworking never ceases to amaze.
Very cool Chris.
As expected, after playing with the bulkhead, I now have a better idea of what I want and decided to leverage the plasma table to do all the shape and hole cutting. Here's the latest design:
Holes for the fuel line bulkhead fittings, opening for the brake and clutch hard lines, throttle cable and electrical to pass through. There will be a separate bulkhead for the brake and clutch lines's hard to soft transition.
Attached image(s)
And while I was plasma-ing, I cut the blank for the Speedhut gauges. Next is to shape it to fit the stock gauge opening.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Lessons learned / gaining experience / developing skills:
Do the major metal shaping before cutting large holes. With the holes, the part was too flexy for me to get controlled, crisp "around the corner" edges as I was tipping the flange on the bead roller. It was also challenging to hammer and dolly to shrink the corners to vertical once they were tipped in.
But a good practice piece!
The next one will be better.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's even curved, like the stock piece.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Impressive
I'll have to come back up there now to play with that bender.
Maybe wait until you come back from your sheet metal class so you can show off your new skills in person.
Very cool!
Way to cool! That bender is trick! Is it an electronic magnet that keeps the pieces from rolling/moving while bending? That is way cool.
Love the bulkhead with the AN lines.
Speaking of bending, I fabbed Version 2 of the bulkhead. It turned out just how I hoped. Way nicer design/outcome than V1.
The mag bender really is magical in terms of what you can do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here it is in place. Pretty neat, even if it will get covered up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I gave the gauge panel another go. I'm not great at measuring so there are a couple gaps in the upper corners I'll correct in Version 3. That said, I actually nailed the upper mounting holes!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That part is very cool, it came out great.
I know that you have been told this before but,
you have some super skills and some great toys (tools)
Bob B
The brake line bulk head was a tricky little bugger. Lots of bends in many directions that required planning to determine which should be bent first, next, etc. Of course I didn't figure that out until I made the first bend...
But in the end, it turned out pretty well.
It'll be soft lines from the clutch and brake master cyls to this bulk head (recommended by a number of racer buddies and the fellows at BRMS), then hard lines through the car.
Mostly this bulk head fab has been head scratching and test fitting to be sure I can get to all the connections and that I'm not creating an "impossible to service" situation.
But this all looks like it'll work fine. Onward...
Attached thumbnail(s)
and the back side. I can get a brake line wrench on there...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I've been stuck on what I want to do with the fire wall and the access cover. Partly landing on a design and partly determining how to close things off so the cover will seal.
The latest thinking is that I'll remove virtually all the stock fire wall (leaving the window seal area and the vertical section below what) and build a new one from scratch.
Part of today I:
- fabbed a new, larger upper rear section of the console. This is to give me more room for fuel, clutch, brake, throttle cable, etc.
- mocked up a wire frame of design V1 of the access panel
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I started on the new fire wall panels.
I plan to copy most of the planes / angles of the stock fire wall. Here's the first practice piece that will serve as the lower vertical.
It's got a 90 degree tipped edge that I'll spot weld to the cross bar from the engine side, same as the factory part.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Awesome work! Your car is a race car with a 914 wrapper. Beautiful metal work.
One thing I noticed on post #822 pertains to your ebrake cable routing. Looks like you've removed or remade the metal part that redirects the cable going to the handle. I never liked this arrangement as you couldn't see what was under it since I had tons of rust in the floor and longs.
I took a different approach to this cable redirector and made it a roller.
From post #822:
I welded a bolt to the floor on a couple of stiffener plates.
The roller works well and doesn't have that hidden area under the original redirector plate.
[/quote]
Nice...
As always, there's one in every crowd... (but around here, it's usually more!)
Kinda like how you post all this amazing work on your repairs and the comment you get is about the pic of the badger! Gotta love 914 Worlders!
[/quote]
The badger was kind of an inside joke. Andrew PMd me to ask if I knew that my last name means "badger" in Old English. Then he asked for more animal pics. I had to do it.
[/quote]
This is a car forum ???
Seriously Chris - there are only 2 threads I follow on here - yours and Brent's.
If I don't comment on yours it's 'cos I'm usually lost for words
Took today off so was able to work a bit on the firewall.
Love, love, love this bender. It makes quick(er) work of making these parts.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This piece serves to seal off the top of the access opening. Lots more work to do...
The induction system is off as I need to relocate the throttle cable stop to the opposite end of the valley cover topper as the Borla stacks are designed for a front engine set up. I didn't want to run the throttle cable all the way around the engine!
Pics once it's done. It's looking really tidy.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This is the current thinking re: the replacement firewall design. The center section (below the cross bar) will be removable. I get all the clearance I need for fuel lines, etc, it's easy to service things that would otherwise be a real pain to get to.
I'm still working on the design above the cross bar but I really like the "mini-tub" look that it has going on behind the door bar.
(Hey, it is the RaceRod, so I figure it's OK... )
Now, can I duplicate all this in metal and have it look the way I want?
Wish me luck.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the throttle cable stop relocation has been completed. Here are the before and after shots.
Before it was angled, now it's a straight shot, just ~180 degrees out from how it came!
It turned out nice and tidy!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the look of the firewall. Great job on throttle cable stop too.
Are you going to make WCR in June (with the RaceRod)???? Looks great as usual Chris!
BTW: Is there a "clearance" requirement to have the "bulge" in the center of the firewall (I don't see one) or is this just your fancy-pants expression of teener-art?
T
As Yoda might say:
"To the new fire wall, he is committed."
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, even if the car shows up on a trailer it will let people drool over it in person
After a fair bit of head scratching on the design, I've now (mostly?) thought through the " how should I actually construct the fire wall?" so today I got started on the first of the "real" pieces.
My plan is to build the lower, vertical wall, then frame the critical edge joints to be sure I have fixed points from which I can generate accurate measurements.
First I measured and determined the arch and cut the blank for the lower vertical.
Plasma table to the rescue!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I want to spot weld the vertical lower to the arched cross bar so I need to make a flange across the lower, curved edge.
I set up an appropriate set of dies in the bead roller and in 5 or 6 passes, I have my roughed in flange.
Note that when you tip a flange on an inside curve like this, you end up with a flange where the outer most edge is shorter than the rest of the flange, so as the flange edge tips over, that short side causes the piece to curve.
These are the sorts of moments where I start to wonder if this will be another "practice piece".
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, it's off to the shrinker/stretcher. A bit of stretching on the flange (and shrinking when I go to far!) and... She's FLAT!
I still have to tune up the flange edge to get it a bit more crisp but it's looking like this piece will end up in the car!
Attached thumbnail(s)
There's still a bunch of trimming and fitting (and you can see why I want that flange edge to be a bit more crisp) but I couldn't resist a very loose test fit.
At this point, I'm happy with how it's coming along.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Whoa. Nice fit! I know what you mean about shrinking when you stretch too far... or when you meant to stretch but shrink but shoved the piece in the stretcher by mistake. Not that I've ever done that...
Spent all day yesterday reorganizing the shop. I have a ton more room! I can use most everything without having to move anything. Much better...
So today was back to the lower fire wall piece.
I used a different set of dies on the bead roller and got a much improved, nice crisp edge. The fit is near perfect. Very happy with this!
Then it was trimmed to a rough fit so I could locate a bead that the upper pieces will land on. I didn't want "exposed edge" joints so the bead offset will give things what I think will be a more finished look.
And yes, I'll be cutting the center section out and routing it forward to form the ledge for the access cover. But I wanted to do the bead work across the entire piece to ensure symmetry.
Onward...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like that version, looks great
An exhaust system for an LS 914. Some assembly required..?
The bends are mild steel. I want to fit everything up to be sure it all works as desired, then I'll redo it all in 304 stainless.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Redo it?
You are one strange cat! I found some good stainless 3" mandrel J pipes on ebay.
I found it really easy to weld with the mig and some stainless wire.
About 1ft from the turbo, Stainless flange on stainless downpipe
Bunch of these water pipes. All stainless.
5 welds here, No issues
I would confidently do this again the exact same way.
Chris looking good..
This weekend was spent on design and practice:
Design: working out the details around how to build the fire wall.
I didn't want the various panels to just butt up against each other in the corners, neither inside nor outside corners.
Practice: working on the bender, bead roller and shrinker/stretcher to see if I could get the bead I wanted on both inside and outside corners.
The good news is that I was able to get what I wanted!
In some cases, it was using "mismatched" dies on the bead roller.
For whatever reason, I ended up tackling what I figured was the harder one: Bead on an inside corner with a curve. Here it is!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's how the corner will look with the panels.
I think this will look far more "complete" than panels that just terminate in/at the corners.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I went after what will become the flange that will be spot welded to the chassis under the top of the door bar. Here's the sorta test fit. No, I haven't yet removed all of the original firewall... this piece will replace what's left there now.
Hard to see, but its got a bead right at the edge that the panel will sit down into.
The next pic makes it a bit more clear.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's that same piece and the initial plan for how it will intersect with the base panel that sits on the curved cross bar, and how the firewall panel will sit inside the beads.
So far, so good. I'm happy with how this design is looking. Just lots of fabbing yet to do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was on to tacking in the first part of the exhaust:
The reducers are on!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was more practice. This time preparing for installing the flares.
The plan is butt welded TIG.
This was playing with fusion welding vs using some filler. Then planished with hammer and dolly.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And tested to see how it'll look once metal finished. Again, I'm happy with this.
The trick will be to see how it translates from practice on the bench to actual flares on the car...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice job on the fusion welding there. The only real trick is keeping the joint very tight. Bench to actual welds is always a guessing game. Best of luck.
That is just begging to be fired up just like that with the open pipes!
About 6 in the morning ought be the right time I say.
That compound curve is gorgeous!
Welds look good with great clarity!
I agree with Mike as well, How bout a video?
I wish I could post that the engine runs! It's not even close... So back to the fab stuff:
The tedium of trying to, ahem, "engineer" the firewall. Not too exciting and I've been thinking I should stop posting until I have something "done". Tell me if I'm boring you...
As I've gotten farther into the firewall, and having moved the drive train forward 1.5", I determined I want to step out the upper frame to buy a bit more clearance on the engine side. With this latest approach, and the upper piece you see here, with the seat all the way back, it'll juuuuuuust misses contacting the firewall.
The upper piece is a working part that is being used to determine the various angles, etc. It'll end up being the official profile for the upper frame.
Learning as one goes is fun, if time consuming. Things like learning how much to over bend a flange when you know you're going to add a bead that ends up "unbending" it.
But I'm getting better at it.
I'd REALLY like to get part of this put in this weekend. Fingers crossed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hey Chris - Thanks for the guidance. I was leaning toward filler after seeing how it was working with/without.
Looking forward to meeting you in person in a few weeks!
I'm making progress on the parts and pieces I'll need and how they'll fit together but all the fiddly little pieces take way longer to make than I'd ever have believed. Thankfully, once I get one side figured out, the other side goes much quicker.
But it really does nicely finish off the edge.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hard to get a good angle but here it is, mocked in place.
It looks better in person. And once it's actually welded in, the edge bead should show up a bit more.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Final welding on the tops of the door bars. This had to get done in order to get the fire wall fully designed.
And a bit of "out of position" work! If only it were back on the rotisserie.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The fire wall is turning out to be the most tedious work I've done yet. Every piece has to fit "just so".
It's looking like I'll end up making each piece at least a couple times since on a couple of them, each end will need to be trial fit, tweaked, trial fit, etc.
I think the fastest way will be to make each end as a template then transfer the shapes onto a full length blank. If that doesn't work out, I may have to make the ends and splice them together. We'll see.
Here, I'm working out how the top frame piece will need to be trimmed to accommodate that fancy little drop at the end of the cross bar.
And I'm still playing with bead design and location.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good as usual. That is one stout chassis.
Kudos Chris.
As I work through the design, I realize that I need to plan more before fabbing. The latest "duh" moment was realizing that it's better to have flat panels remain in the same plane so as to avoid twisting.
This means rebuilding the upper panel that will live under the cross bar. It needed to be a steeper angle to line up with the rear portion of the console.
And as long as things were up for a do-over, I figured I'd rebuild said console rear portion with round tube. This will keep a consistent corner radius over the whole console. At least, that's the plan.
Here's the new upper partially formed.I still need to work out all the corner angles.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the view from on high, complete with the new, round rear console section.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The bender in action, fabbing a practice piece to help me understand some of the console-to-fire wall panel connection joints.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TohVH1r0Bts
Did I say "tedious"?
Forgive the horrific-ness of this little part. I an no where near skilled / experienced enough to be able to apply the "measure twice, cut once" approach to this part of the project.
Instead, I make a little practice part to learn how all these angles and corners need to come together. It's all about learning for the next little while. But I think you get the idea of what I'm after. I'm pretty confident I will achieve a good fit and I think it'll look pretty good.
That said, "practice" translates to "wasted material".
Just perfect timing for a steel tariff!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great work!
I don't know if you've ever seen the rapid sheet-metal prototyping machines, video below:
https://youtu.be/Wl5_wUVxRvw
For all the other tool geeks/whores, here's more of the bender in action:
rolling the radius farther around
I'm fortunate to have some pretty cool tools and it really drives home the fact that all these things really do is speed up the process of making the part... or totally screwing up the part and wasting material!
I have a long way to go and lots to learn...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGyqrkp1RLo
That Magnabrake is on a very long list of items I would love to have in my shop.
I have an oxy/acet rig with Meco torch that you are free to borrow to weld on those flares.
I don't have real truck so you'd have to pick up , I'll provide entertainment with a tour of poorly put together and disorganized shop
https://www.tinmantech.com/products/welding/meco-torch-accessories/
Working on the final upper portion of the fire wall that lives under the cross bar.
Learning, learning... When making multiple folds that need to intersect at a particular angle, I need to plan better. I didn't know exactly what the angle needed to be so I had to, um.... improvise! Yes, let's go with that.
Hammer and dolly = improvise
Fortunately, it turned out OK. Still needs to be trimmed to final dimensions so that little bit of overlap at the corner isn't an issue. Plus, I'll weld it up, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Essentially impossible to see but I need this piece to tilt down a bit. That's to allow clearance for the cross bar to be fitted ahead of final welding.
You wouldn't know it but since the door bars angle down as they leave the fire wall, the cross bar needs to slide up and in as it's being installed.
Super happy I accounted for this before final welding the part I'm working on!
Anyway, what's the big deal about this piece needing to tilt down?
As a flat plane tilts away from a curve, like this piece does with that reinforcement arch I added to the fire wall, it creates a gap at the front of the curve.
So I used the English wheel to raise up a bit of a hump to close that gap. Again, no one will ever see it but it makes all the difference in terms of fitment.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Back to the compound curve I needed to put into the upper piece. It didn't take much but I was able to get a really nice fit.
Arch at the back, flat across the front.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was working up an understanding of how things need to come together to frame the removable inspection panel.
My main take-away from this was:
I wish I paid closer attention during Geometry class...
But it's coming together and I'm starting to think I can achieve what I'm after.
Attached thumbnail(s)
[quote name='tygaboy' date='Mar 18 2018, 09:18 PM' post='2590237']
Did I say "tedious"?
"Forgive the horrific-ness of this little part. I an no where near skilled / experienced enough to be able to apply the "measure twice, cut once" approach to this part of the project."
Hey Chris,
Think of those as "prototypes". Some folks have scrap bins. We have containers for research and development aka the metallurgical origami department.
Keep up the good work.
Jeff
How much of this stuff do you dream up while sleeping? Great work.
Great fab work, beautiful build. Going to be an awsome car for sure.
Love seeing the detail of your Art. This is going to be a real masterpiece
Thanks for all your kind and encouraging words. I really need them...
This firewall is giving me fits! Every time I think I've solved a problem, I seem to create three others. Today's was REALLY understanding what happens when you tip a plane out of level but want other level planes to intersect with it.
It's hard to explain but let me just say "things weren't lining up". Well, they were, but but not in a way that would let me complete the more complex corners without multiple, tedious cuts and welds and grinds and LOTS of cursing.
(My wife was gardening and poked her head into the shop at one point and said "No more "Goddamnits", please?")
It was one of those days where I thought, "Well, I could always chuck this chassis and start over with a different one...."
But after a bit of noodling, I realized I could simplify things greatly by keeping the planes in line. Great. But that changes all of the dimensions I've worked out so far.
So I cut out all of last week's work and started over by remaking the piece that lives under the cross bar.
Instead of the cool English wheeled, zippidy do-dah, angled approach, it turns out I want it 90 degrees to the vertical part of the fire wall. So, back to tipping flanges on inside curves and stretching to get things flat again. Thankfully, the mag brake lends itself to "interesting" shapes.
Note this new version (#4, btw) has no sides or front. Another simplification is that I'll add the sides and front as separate pieces. This should make it easier to get the beading detail to align across all the various pieces. It'll be easier to explain once I get to that point and have some pics.
And apologies, I'm sure you're as bored with this part of the build as I am...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I am getting pretty good at making inside curve flanges and ending up with a nice fit.
I do, however, plan to keep my day job.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Perhaps most exciting is that next week, I head to the East coast for the 4-day coach building class with Wray Schelin of Proshapers!
Very excited...
Hahaha this build is far from boring.
Your Mrs. and mine think alike.
I get told about my attitude in the garage sometimes as well.
One day I will understand this creation. I wish you would provide all of us tuning in
with blueprints and roadmaps. Heheh Carry on Chris!
Chris, Enjoy the class, I am sure you will pickup some new skills. I have a couple on them on my list, to do when I get a chance.
Well, even yesterday's re-do #4 turns out to be another practice part. I want a taller flange so I can spot weld vs butt weld when I install the top piece. So... back to it. Again.
Here's a bit more detail of the how I made the piece.
Cut the blank, mark the bend line and use the bead roller to start tipping the flange.
The flange on this one is ~ 2x larger that the previous version so it took bit more effort to tip the flange. That's a fair bit of metal to move around.
Here's the first pass through the bead roller. You can see how tipping on an inside curve starts to curve the flat area of the material.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Pass # 2, more angle and more curving going on.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Third pass, almost there. Pretty curvy!I stopped here as I wanted to do some stretching to get it flatter ahead of the next bead rolling operation.
Note that the initial tipping was done with the thin top die and the large, flat lower.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A bit of stretching to get things to lay down a bit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Stretch, check, stretch check, etc, etc...
Done!
What I didn't show was the final couple passes through the bead roller were using a wide, flat top die against the same flat lower to smooth the flange and crisp up the corner.
Attached thumbnail(s)
For the tool whores. A teeny little roll bender, just perfect for 1/8" rod.
Why would I want that?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yes, it's April 1. No, this isn't an April Fool's joke. Tho I may end up thinking this was foolish.
I'm headed to the coach building class next week and I'm contemplating, just contemplating, mind you, giving a go to making an all steel wide body.
So as a complete waste of time, I started messing about, trying my hand at working up the beginnings of a wire frame...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The design would have to enable me to:
- run a radiator in each rear side scoop, ala the DP2 design pictured below.
(He's running an LS3 and having no cooling issues - and he has a muffler right behind each rad...)
- retain a fully functional front trunk. That'd actually be pretty neat and is a main driver for this silly idea
Yes, LOTS of things to think about and it may all be abandoned. But this build is, well, about the build.
Will it ever run? Who knows... Do I care? Not right now, too much fun in playing around and learning.
Attached image(s)
Top piece Version 5 centered, leveled and tacked in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Trying not to let "perfect" get in the way of "0.1 is really, really close"...!
I can tweak it a bit but for now, I'll take it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with that top piece mocked in, I can start on the practice parts to work a design for how all the corners will come together. I'm determined to have that bead transition around all the flat panels but these corners are certainly going to be tricky.
I may have to enlist my bicycle building friend to help me learn how to braze and file so I can get the transitions to look good.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the wire fixtures.. It will look really cool.
And with that top piece in, I could start "connecting the dots" and get a feel for what this thing will look like and how it'll work. Still not sure if the access panel will be one piece or a few.
And while it's not quite a blueprint, hopefully this will give a better idea of what I'm trying to do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And to celebrate (?) getting to page 50, here's a gratuitous artsy-fartsy shot and a pic of (what I think is) one of the coolest looking engines. I never get tired of looking at this. But hey, it is my car...
That's all for this weekend.
Happy Easter, everyone!
Attached thumbnail(s)
...and it is track certified!
Looking great Chris!!
T
Some fun stuff to help maintain perspective:
Martin is from the UK so...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Man that manifold looks killer!!!! You'll need to make a full GT engine lid or or something that will show off that engine!
That'll do just nicely. You'll need some LED's in the engine bay for when you park at shows at night.
I must be old and afflicted with impeccable taste. LED"s...just make sure the lights match Lori's shoes.
T
Home from the coach building class and time to get back to work. I think I've finally resolved all the details and landed on a design that I'll implement.
The beading fully surrounds and helps locate each sides main fire wall panel. I still have final trimming and fabrication of a couple more bits but I'm happy with how this is going.
Attached thumbnail(s)
In the event I actually give a go to making my own flares, I wanted to start practicing the toughest part I'll have to deal with: the reverse curve.
I wasn't working to a pattern, just getting a feel for how to form these. IMO, it's the sexiest shape there is...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The fire wall is taking a LONG time... Very fiddly, lots of "just so" cuts and joints.
Today I fabricated the pieces and started framing in the driver side fire wall.
Fun, fun, fun because now all the parts have to be mirror image of the passenger side. Some careful measuring and everything matches nicely!
I'll even up all the corners so everything is matchy-matchy so clearly, some final trimming to do on most every piece.
I also built a quick "template frame" to ensure the entire perimeter of the main panel framing gets built in a nice, flat plane. Interesting how when I clamped everything in place, I turns out the lower pieces actually need to come forward a bit as they move toward the center of the car.
You can see the template frame in one of the pics.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris: You are taking v8 Teener conversions to all new levels!!!
The only issue I see so far...no notched floor!
#DoingV8conversionsproud!
Tony
I took today off work today and got back on the fire wall. More of the fiddly fitment/multiple angle joints. It's REALLY slow going as each piece requires rough fitting then what seems like a couple dozen trips to the band saw and sander to tune each edge...
And I didn't like how the side supports for the removable panel were working out so I remade them. In the redo, I moved the bead to the center of the bend which will make for a symmetrical look where the main fire wall panels meet up to the removable panel.
Slow going, but I'm happy with how it's coming along.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Top pieces completed and ready for welding!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good! I'm thinking you should put Lexan panels in there so you can see everything! For safety, a fire suppression system.
Wowza, Mad Skills!
Did I say "fiddly"? Man, this fire wall has turned into a really big time suck. Don't get me wrong, I like doing it but geez, this has been day after day after day...
So here it comes around the corner of the lower opening area.
I'm using that small square tube to set the plane for that section of the panel.
Oh, and again, it would have helped if I'd paid attention in geometry class:
When you are joining pieces that have a bead and the angle of the panel relative to the other one, isn't the same, the bead needs to be in a slightly different location (higher or lower) in order to line up with the bead on the other panel(s).
So, while each side piece can be cut from the same initial part that had been bent and had the bead added, each of the "middle" pieces required their own angle and bead location...
Did I say "fiddly"?
Attached thumbnail(s)
The frame is in plane but mostly it's a pain...
Attached thumbnail(s)
All the pieces are fabbed!
Some final trimming to tighten up the fit in a couple places and then trimming of the lip around all the openings and it's weld it up time!
Major milestone.
Attached thumbnail(s)
just...Mega!!!!!
Man is that looking sweet. I have firewall envy. Hehehehe
That looks really nice Chris! Good job!
Thanks for the compliments. It's nice to hear encouraging words...
Now, let's make sure the seat still fits/clears. Yep, all set. Cozy with clearance!
Attached thumbnail(s)
One of the upcoming sub-projects that I need to get figured out is where/how to fit the A/C unit. I don't like the traditional under dash units so I've rented a few different mock up units to see what might work. This one, from Old Air, seems to be the most suitable.
My initial plan is to section out above the passenger foot well and raise the unit up as high as I can. It should provide enough foot room while not hanging down so far as to be really obvious.
According to my "pre-cise calculations". I can raise it about 5 inches from where it sits in the pic. Farther if I can avoid fouling the wiper mechanism. Of course, a mono-wiper would make that a non-issue...
I'll also lose the glove box.
And no cutting will happen until I get more comfortable with overall fitment, hose and vent tube routing, etc.
But I need to get after this pretty soon.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with the fire wall fab mostly done, I started on Version 3 of how to close off the lower sections. More fiddly fab as the lower wall isn't vertical. You may recall that while the wall isn't, the seat belt retractors require vertical mounting.
So that means these closure pieces have to have a wedge cut out of them to accommodate that seat belt retractor mounting tube.
It's true what they say: Nothing is easy.
Also playing around with beading design.
I may end up mounting these pieces on the inside of the lower section. Still not sure about that.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, your level of engineering, detail, and execution continues to amaze me. Keep it coming!
I don't think there is enough room for that ac unit. I think the only way to fit it is to replace the fresh air box with an account unit and run hoses from there. Cut the front upper firewall out to make room for the unit and then box it in when done. That's my goal whenever I get back into the project. They make a universal unit that has 4 outlets and does ac and heat. No defrost or vents to open and close but that could be done with flapper boxes and solenoids.
My 2c.
Chris: Consider moving the fuel tank forward a hair, if necessary. Easy space to be had there! This would be minor fab with your skill and it would continue the theme of a "one off" teener. Besides, I like air conditioning!
T
I just like being cooool!
T
I'm putting up a few pictures here to help you think ahead to bodywork.
This is a widebody I did almost 20 years ago. The nose is one piece of aluminum which I shaped. I have bucks (somewhere) for the 5" wide rear flares.
This is the carbon fiber 914 nose made by Prototype Composites I use on my race car and on a couple others. The aluminum center panel is a mod I needed for my car's oil cooler outlet hidden behind the airdam. The CF piece comes solid, and most people open it up for a GT cooler style installation.
Thanks Mr. Foley!
I'm still at the head-scratching stage and in looking at the DP2 (it's the car pictured here), it's using a pretty shallow angle and what seems to be a relatively small scoop to successfully cool an LS3.
Granted, there's no sheet metal behind the DP2 rads but I figure I could loose most of the inner wheel house sheet (and if needed, add some louvers to the top of the flares) to get the needed air flow.
In the perfect world, I'm wondering if I could widen my steel GT flares enough to make this work..
As always, "We shall see..."
Attached image(s)
Did you say widen a set of GT flares? I did a set 2 years ago.
Welded on normal, then cut off on a strategically placed line.
Reshaped to set the opening at the same height. This was the hard part. It took a lot of work to "adjust" the part which remained on the car.
Then add the filler strip in 3 pieces for convenience.
Grind and hammer smooth.
Chris: I am going to start keeping a list of "Cracker" inspired themes on your race-rod! You just take everything to new levels!
Tony
But on the off chance that turns out to be too loud, I got a Magnaflow internal cross over muffler. Each header feeds in the uppers on each side and the exhaust tips both come off the lower tubes. The muffler will mount like this here, except I'll use metal and not just blue tape and bondo spreaders...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And like this. The pic makes the tube look close to the tire but it's well inboard of the inner fender line. The tire would have to be rubbing on the inner fender and it still wouldn't hit the exhaust tube.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One side from the header to the muffler was all but completed so it was time to play with exhaust tips.
Option 1 and option 2 use the same small piece of tube, just flipped around.
I'll decide soon.
Yes, the muffler looks low but it's well above the lowest point of the trans.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Um, that looks familiar...good job!
T
On to fabrication of a bracket to support the muffler.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Clearance, but not a lot. Good thing I moved the drive train forward 1.5"...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Just know that first 90deg turn is going to be HOT. My stainless severely blued on that one spot and it's almost 3ft from the turbo!
It works...even on this same engine. The hottest area I have seen is at the collector...first day of fab years ago on the exhaust (below).
The bigger concern I would have is the exhaust muffler heats affect on the trunk area - I believe Chris is trying to fab a functional space above this area.
T
A few things happened today. I was rummaging through the parts boxes and came across the "original" Renegade water connections. I thought:
- the outlets point straight forward...
- right at the opening in the firewall...
- if I made a full tunnel then removed the bottom of it, sorta like an traditional front engine car, I could run recessed hard water lines and other systems items...
So I think that's what I'll do. Console redo #3! But whatever, I think it'll be cool. I kinda wanted to do this in the first place so it's really just coming full circle.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And as long as the hood was up, so to speak, I went back to another idea: running the stacks open but building some sort of air box/filter set up. I have a few ideas so the first step was to see how close I could come to accurately measuring then fabbing up the piece that forms the bottom but allows the throttle bodies to poke through.
First time's the charm and I nailed it! (I'm still new enough at this fab stuff that I'm always amazed when what I plan actually works out.)
Now to work out the rest - like some creative shaping up near the firewall.
And I have a couple interesting design ideas that this air box approach will need to leverage. More as I get to it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And not to be outdone by Brett and his critter pics, here's mine for today:
Even the local reptiles are "hanging on every step" of my build.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, just wondering what the advantage is in having the bottom open in the center tunnel in your new/old design - is the purpose to make access to the coolant lines easier? I'm also running mine down a redesigned center tunnel because my floor and console were eaten and it will add to the stiffening structure. I know you don't need additional support because the design you've got going on... pretty impressive stuff!
It will bring heat into the cabin. Not that it's a problem depending on where you live, but just a thought. I've heard of oil cooler lines in the longs making a noticeable difference. Andy and Amoy can comment about that.
Keep up the great work! Stellar project.
Do not do anything with those nylon fittings...replace with aluminum. I believe I have mentioned this to you before - they will leak, eventually.
T
I have thought about the same tunnel design but also thought about adding a butterfly brace like the Miata boys and girls run. With your car you could just do it down the tunnel.
On the Miata it does make a huge difference. You would think that building a box section about 2" deep would not make one bit of difference, but it does.
Look forward to seeing what you do with it.
I spent (wasted?) more time screwing around with the air box idea. It really doesn't advance the build but it is fun doing the fab work.
I got the other side's base done and evened up both ends in prep for building the middle, ends and sides.
My buddy Martin has a vacu-former and we were talking about using this sheet metal version as a mold and making a clear air box! I think at the very least, I'll do a clear top so the stacks are always visible. That'd be pretty neat, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This is going to be interesting!
Fuel for your fire: something Lambo styled...
I know You could do a variation of...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Obviously stacks & trumpets are sexier than this, the bracing is cool though and of course a needed function.
Attached thumbnail(s)
To expand on my quick comment, I have a weird affinity for air boxes. Their ability to make a boring engine look sexy and a sexy engine look boring fascinates me. For some reason, I find the 914/6 air box downright sensuous. I can't wait to see what you do to make this dead sexy engine look
Hey Chris, I just bombed through this whole thread in the last 24 hours. Brilliant, creative work full stop. We seem to be a lot alike with respect to the bike and car building stuff. I only wandered over here from Chris H's EG33 build with welcoming comments by Mueller.
I am doing an EG33 into a Lancia Scorpion and am staring at the rusted out floor and the firewall I had to cut to get the engine/transaxle into position. Your solutions have given me some great insight and ideas. Many thanks and looking forward to what you share next!
-Christopher
I am shoving some stars into alignment so I can be present for introductions, pinching my fingertips in your English wheel would be gravy on the cake!
Just found this thread, it's great, lovely work , thanks.
Took today off and got the passenger side firewall components welded up.
Tacked them while they were clamped and clecoed in the car, then removed to final weld on the bench.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And what was "they" are now an "it"... And it still fits!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yesterday, the driver side fire wall pieces were also welded together. With that done, I turned to working on the tunnel and coolant line routing.
The Slippery Slope of Custom Stuff:
Given I've moved the drive train forward 1.5" and built the custom lower fire wall, if I want to run the coolant lines up in the tunnel, I don't have room/the same option of just dumping them right out the back of the stock tunnel location, like others who have gone this route.
So... Here's a pic of what seems about my only option. Some 1.5" PVC I had laying around. For you wise guys: Yes, it's for mock up, and yes, it'll be replaced with suitable material.
Still lots to work out and it may turn out to be more work than it's worth. We shall see...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then, just for fun and practice, I started messing around with fabbing up a front tunnel section, just to get a feel for size and shape.
I do like the way the 1" radius corners match the shape of the longs. Gives things a sorta samey-same design vibe. I'm liking that, at least at this early stage.
That said, I think this it a bit too tall. Again, just an early prototype that I'll likely change up - as if this sub-project would be different from any of the others... (at myself)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Back to the fire wall. I sorta forgot I need to fab something to finish off the upper portion. I think I'll try and match the design I used everywhere else. Makes sense, no?
Just means more fiddly angles to figure, cut and fit... You'd think I'd be getting better at this. Or at least faster. But no. It takes me a LONG time to work out this sort of thing. It's all good, though. I find it therapeutic, if at times frustrating.
I suspect it's just another way the good Lord is helping me learn patience and perseverance. And that can't be a bad thing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Defrosting concrete?
Do you still want me to bring the spare windows I have for next Saturday? They are just taking up room right now.
But worth it! Almost completed the exhaust. A few more seams to close and O2 sensor bungs to add and it'll be done and ready to head to the engine dyno to get its base map set up. Can't hardly wait for that!
Attached thumbnail(s)
another. An no, it's not symmetrical side to side. I wanted the gaps between the outside edges of the floor and the exhaust to be the same, and that required slightly different angles where the tube drops 90 degrees coming out of the header. Plus, one collector sits farther back.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Initial rough fitting the passenger side fire wall main panel.
I'll need to do something to stiffen it and prevent oil canning. I'm thinking of using this side of the firewall to mount the engine computer and the rear slave Infinity Box unit in a recessed box.
As always, we'll see. But it's really gratifying to see that the panel fits well. And I'm happy with how the beading in the frame sets it off and gives the panel edges a nice finish.
And it always nice to see large sections of the car going together vs farther apart.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This next part of the build should be riveting...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wha, wha wha...
T
Punny as it is, the work speaks. Loving it all on every front. Shop guys have to rib each other, that's part of the vibe. Tony just has one.
Jiggin' it and Tiggin' it.
But mostly I'm just diggin' it!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I liked the pipes going up better.
Do you have space to move that muffler up? Doesn't look that concealed unless it's just mock position. Love the firewall and the welds
Playing with tighter rivet spacing and adding more of the planned layout, just to get a better feel for how it'll look. Still working on how the two rivet lines will come together on the inside of that lowest piece...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And then it was back to the fiddly stuff. I think I've landed on how I want to finish off the upper section of the fire wall. Here's my current thinking for how to address the door bar.
I'll add a piece to the top of the main fire wall that has the same sort of bead detail that this upper section will rivet to. Pics as I get that fabbed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Brent (bbrock) was in town from Montana and was able to swing by for a visit!
Proving yet again what great people we have participating on this board!
Brent, it was great to meet you!
(but in typical "we were all focused on car stuff", I didn't remember to get a pic...
As far as progress on the car, the driver side firewall frame got final welded. Time to make that side's panel and order up the rivets...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow, this is looking great. Fantastic attention to detail !!!!!
Well, it seems a good time was had by all at yesterday's Fabrication day event. While I was hoping to get some time on my build today, it turned into a long tandem ride with my wife, a visit to see my buddy's plane that just got wrapped and some honey do items.
I did, however, accomplish this: my first rivet!
I'll use these for the fire wall and tunnel panels. CherryMax structural rivets, not regular ol' pop rivets. Different animal altogether.
Yes, it was just a test but also yes, this was all I did on the car today.
And people wonder why this is taking so long...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris,
Weren't you thinking along these lines?
Attached image(s)
On my way home to Bozeman now. It was great meeting you last Friday Chris!!! Amazing work you are doing on that rocket ship. Sorry I missed meeting others at the fab party on Saturday. Looks like I missed a great time.
Im curious about the cherry max rivets, what makes them so different?
Thanks for the additional information, I was wondering about your choice of using rivets for the firewall panels. Should be pretty structurally strong. Are you going to make the center panel bolt-on/off for service access?
very cool, thanks
I worked a bit more on the uppermost section of the firewall. After making some practice pieces to be sure I understood the necessary dimensions, I fabbed up what I hope is a final piece.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Practice piece to work out where the edges and hole need to be...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Once I had the dimensions, I took a swing at the final part. Turned out pretty well. I still need to do final trimming and add a bend so the top portion tips back and can be riveted to the stock portion of the fire wall.
I'm thinking I'll add a bead or some sort of detail. That's still TBD.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Closing in on closing it in! A few more pieces to fab then it's time for riveting and welding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks great.. Keep the updates coming.
Stephen - I was thinking of a crest on the front section of the removable fire wall panel. Probably not bead rolled...! I'm no where near skilled enough for that.
However, since I'm clearly in no hurry to get it running ( ), I stayed with my "hmmm, I don't like that/think I'll do it over" approach.
As I'm working on the fire wall, I'm not liking the corners - too sharp an angle.
To my eye, it conflicted with the nice, soft 1" round tube edges of the rest of the console... So...
I wasn't sure I could pull it off (and I've only done one corner so the final outcome remains to be seen) but I went "full fiddly" and worked out the necessary angles, cut the appropriate shape and did my first "around a corner" bead.
Then I had to and bend and trim and
tweak, but I think it looks LOADS better and keeps a consistent theme with the rest of the corners.
Here's the before and after. I still need to weld and finish that clipped area but:
What say you?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Oooh. I like that! Nice touch.
If you look closely the basics of the crest are bead rolled the rest was etched / scribed. So lay out the shield and a couple of the center dividers and then "cheat" a little and laser etch, acid etch, or CNC the other sections for the look you want. Or cheat the entire thing take it to the beach find an air brush artist and have them brush the crest in.
Since you have a CNC plasma cutter it would be a lot faster the plasma the details out, TIG them on in the best dime stack you can muster and just clear coat it out for the world to see.
I keep being distracted by the fire wall work. I want to get the engine to the dyno guys and all that it needs is to finalize the muffler mount. So...
If this isn't "getting jiggy wi't it", I don't know what is!
Yes, seriously. This really is the fixturing craziness that I came up with.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sorta like this. I still have to add a flange all around the plate to stiffen it up but you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Once the mount is complete, tabs get added to the muffler.
A couple small items after that then the motor comes out and I can get back to work on the chassis and all the remaining sheet metal, Tangerine Racing rear pick up points and the last parts of the rust repair.
Still a ways to go...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice progress there, I'd have been happy with the beaded corners but the radius is nicer to inadvertently bump against. That muffler bracket is lovely.
I've been finally able to spend some time looking at those roof panel pieces and figuring out how to mount one...
That earlier version of the muffler bracket plate simply wouldn't do. A little plasma table and some added style points.
Still need to finish welding but you get the idea. It's not real light, but it likely won't ever fail!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris that looks great, nice design and artwork all in one.
Dang Chris, you need to be a designer at Bugatti or Pagani....nice
Thanks for the kind words, gents. It does help with the motivation.
Back to the fire wall.
I wasn't happy with any of my ideas for closing in the upper portion because they all seemed to conflict with the 1" round edges of the console. So I took a step back and tried to get a clean slate in my head about what this should look like.
Here's the latest: Continue the console all the way up to the top! Still a few things to work out and, as always, it's not over til it's over but I think I like this better.
The front of it will still be removable for access.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I needed a break from the fire wall. The chassis has a few more spots that need rust repair so I figured I'd get after the frunk seal channels.
Time for my best effort at an impersonation of Brent, Cary and Kent...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I think I missed it. What's a frunk?
I'm trying to pay more attention, now.
front trunk
Typical. It's always worse than you think it'll be.
With all the other things I've been doing, I hadn't really looked that closely at this part of the car. As I did, it was clear that I had more to do than I'd originally thought.
This is a BUB car so it has that model's frunk seal channel that's a bit different as it runs across the front of the car. Upon closer inspection, I figured it'd just be easier to lop the whole thing off and fab a channel repair part that was more like the earlier cars'.
Let's start with what hides between spot welded seams. Looks like my plan was more than just a good idea... it was sort of a requirement.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I used my trusty curve template thingy to get an idea of the curve I'd need.
It always amazes me just how much curve there is in some parts of these little "square" cars.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it's off to the shrinker, test fit, shrink, test fit...
Oops, too much! Stretch, test fit, shrink.
I'm calling this my cardio workout for the day.
OK, that's getting there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
"Hmmm"
"Well" and "Oh, boy!"
It curves both ways...
Of course it does.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Off to the stretcher! Repeat of the earlier process. Fit, adjust, fit adjust...
There we go.
A bit more fine tuning, but you get the idea. Just more fiddly stuff.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Well done!
I love that curved template thingy and had no idea the BUB channels were different. Interesting to watch.
Chris it’s always fun to watch your skills at work. Nice channel building.
I didn’t realize the ID plates were mounted in different locales.
Mine is mounted on my passenger side headlite “box”.
Attached image(s)
Looks like real work, I am starting to embrace my rust
That template tool is one of the simplest and coolest tools I've seen! Great work with the stretcher! Its like it was made to do this type of work !
I have told you before but you have mad skills.
Keep it going.
Thanks for taking us with you on this reworking of this unreal car.
Bob B
Thanks again! I really appreciate all the nice comments.
Back to it, then.
A quick reminder: use up your consumables! I mean really!
Attached thumbnail(s)
As I was looking at what else I'd have to fab, I remembered I'd saved some of the needed pieces when I cut up that '72 parts car last year. So it seems I did notice this area but forgot! (Well, I am turning 60 this month... )
So, a bit of fitting and I don't have to fab these complex little pieces. Nice.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with those pieces in place, I could finalize the front channel.
It really does fit pretty nicely. Happy, happy, joy, joy!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fabbed up and welded in the underside portion of the headlight bucket channel. I still need to trim the vertical edge to the appropriate height.
Then I moved on and fabbed the lower edge that spot welds on. Here it is ready for final fitment.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A little more shrinking/stretching to get the front edge channel width where it needed to be and it was time to spot weld it in. It turned out just like I'd hoped it would.
and
and it's all done!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And it's funny, all the hard work and it gets totally covered by the seal. Ah well, I know it's well de-rustified. And this is just the old seal used as a test fit. All new rubber will be used for the reassembly.
With the channel repairs complete, it's back to all the other stuff...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Finishing the channel repairs was a nice break from the "how do I want to do this" work I'd been doing. Feeling a bit re-engergized, it's back to the fire wall.
Both upper frame tubes are fabbed and fitted. Now to work out how to close everything off/up.
And that's just copper-rich weld through primer on the frames. Some areas will be welded, some riveted but I wanted to get some protection on the bare metal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A number of folks have commentrd on/asked about the curve tool. Years ago, a buddy got it for me as a b-day gift. This Eastwood product looks to be the same thing. May be available cheaper elsewhere but for those interested, there you go!
Attached image(s)
Seems like I keep posting the same shots, doesn't it? But there really are differences as I keep making incremental changes.
I'm liking the ways the angles play. Everyone seems to be getting along.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And pretty quickly, it's back to the fiddly stuff. First attempt at one of the upper filler piece templates. I'm still noodling on the details of the design for this area.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Your engine and exhaust look so good thru the openings in the firewall. Maybe you should find some heat resistant transparent material to make windows.
Chris, you are a bad influence... I ended up getting me a bead roller (manual for now), so inspired by your build! Of course mine will be nowhere close to having the same amount of detail or craftsmanship
Finalized the muffler assembly by adding the mounting tabs and used the mount as the fixture.
Using the tapered head bolts automatically centers the hole in the tab with the mounting boss. Neat little trick.
Attached thumbnail(s)
All mounted! I'll replace the bolts with something more appropriate.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, it was time to add these rings that help seal the exhaust as it enters the muffler. The only thing left is to add the tabs and springs to help hold things in place.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, did you purchase the Boxster Trans mount, or build it?
Made a little tool / fixture to hold the spring tabs at the correct distance and angle. This is clamped to the exhaust tube and muffler then the tabs are welded on.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then used that tool to install the tabs and complete the muffler install. Turned out pretty tidy.
Attached thumbnail(s)
.......watching your cool and skillfuf work may be tedious to you BUT it is addictive to us gearheads
Love seeing your progress, talent and passion.
Please tell me that hand formed Porsche Crest will be your hood ornament
Finally, something new: I got some of the parts finish coated.
The exhaust tubes and muffler mount have been ceramic coated. The shop that did it does mostly guns but is seeing more requests for exhausts.
The color is a nice titanium that has a sort of very light metal flake to it.
The parts look great and what a nice change from all the bare metal and rust!
This thing may turn out looking pretty cool after all...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great looking coatings..... best part of the coatings is that the odds of you changing your mind/design are lessened.
[quote the odds of you changing your mind/design are lessened.
[/quote]
The looks really good Chris!
Well now you'll need to add a Lexan trunk floor to the Lexan firewall to show off those pretty pieces. At this rate, you might as well replace all the body sheet metal with acrylic so all these goodies can shine through!
Today's progress: Started on the plasma table.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The part needs to be stepped up in the middle and I was able to find what turned out to be the perfect press set up. What are the odds?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Carefully set the piece in the press with the appropriate sized "helper" pieces.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The press is a beast and makes quick work of this sort of thing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I couldn't resist adding some additional strength and style points.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very creative there!
Reservoir in place. I like the way it turned out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
^strange place to have your bottle opener
That 16ga? What kind of press do you have? Piece looks great!
I have sheers/presses at my disposal from the people that make our frames.
They sheer 1/8" stock with it and the things 15ft tall and 20 tons! Apparently it has 3' thick concrete underneath it.
I just know how big those machines can be which is why I asked as I didn't remember seeing one at your shop!
That Fab piece is awesome I'm sure that press is going to come in handy very soon for some of the trick stuff. If YOU want anything heavier duty pressed or sheered let me know.
Next, it was time to make a panel to close off where the late model cars mount the fuel pump. I'll use this as the passage for the reservoir hoses to the pedal assembly.
I started off by cutting a simple panel with the appropriate holes for the hoses.
A few grommets and I'm done...
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looked OK but I figured I could do better so decided to make a die for the press that would allow me to raise the section around the hose holes.
I plasma cut a couple pieces of 10 ga and marked them so I could align everything once it was all in the press.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Into the press and out comes a tidy little part!
And yes, I installed the grommets AFTER pressing...
Attached thumbnail(s)
A couple more items checked off the to-do list.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris a question for you, are you clamping the sheet before pressing like you would if you where hammer forming? Just wondering how your get a nice finished part. Or is it a bit rough and the run it through a planning hammer or lots of hammer and dolly work. Wheel them, just wondering wanting to learn a bit.
Nice! I remember that being there. It's able to do anlog more than I thought it would!!
Sharpie transfer punch, a few holes, find some suitable screws and it's all done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then moved on to making a new plate to mount the in-tank fuel pump. This will get welded to the tank in place of the filler, which will be relocated.
Using the plasma table really does feel like cheating.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It'll go about here. I'll be ordering a new tank, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
More panel fab. This time, its the piece that'll serve as the front bulkhead for the fuel lines.
I'm figuring out better processes for pressing the raised sections:
I cut the female piece sized exactly the same as the panel. Then I just sharpied where the male piece needs to sit. Much simpler to set up and virtually guarantees a great result.
Attached thumbnail(s)
PRESS and...
Presto! (see what I did there? )
Turned out nicely.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, it's time to fit the fittings to see how they fit. Hoping they won't give me fits.... wait, what?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Just set in place to see what's what. The panel will sit a bit higher once it's bolted in, but you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the tank side. It'll be soft lines from here up to the pump. One supply, one return.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Okay I got it, the picture left out one detail, the upper upper die, or that flat piece that sets onto of the 10ga plate that presses down.
I like the setup here, and the bulk head for the fuel lines. Same general setup going inlace at the back of the cabin?
And if you think a plasma table is cheating then keep right on doing it, as the end product is worth the "cheat".
"Tunnel Vision"
The stiffening plate at the front is 10 ga - thick enough to support threads. So a quick mark/drill/tap and the bulkhead is finished.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris love how your project is coming out. Saw your Tilton pedal assembly....excellent. Loved your magnetic brake and how you did that 1" radius. All that incredible work on that firewall.....my goodness.
Loved your rear trunk/hood and how it opens backward. I may steal that idea.
it’s a pleasure to watch you exercise your fabrication skills!!!
I really appreciate all the kind words. I'll keep posting the details...
Today it was the rear bulkhead. I decided to try a multi-area raise:
one for the fuel lines and throttle cable and one each for the hydraulics (brake line and clutch). Note the only holes that are cut to approximate size are the fuel lines. I'll come back to the others later in the process.
So, first I designed the panel and cut it. I'm using 18 ga. for these sorts of parts.
Then determined the shapes and locations for the raised areas and cut the dies. For this, it's 10 ga. It seems that gives a nice dimension for the raise.
I cut the male parts first, came back and cut the female sections then cut the outline.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then, set the female part on top of the panel and trace the locations of each opening.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Assemble the set up for the press:
Female die, then the panel, then the male dies (placed as symmetrically as I can get them!)
I also ran into what I hoped wouldn't be an issue:
I don't have press plates that are large enough to cover this whole piece.
So I figured "what the heck, it's only metal..." and I tried a two-step operation.
First I stamped the dog bone shape, then came back and stamped the two circles.
It worked great!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Set in place, just to see how it'll work. Looks good to me.
And I have to say, this all happened with no "practice pieces". Famous last words, but I think I'm starting to figure this out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Not much progress lately as my wife and I just returned from a week at Cycle Oregon. ~400 miles on our road tandem. Great weather, challenging routes and a wonderful group of people. All you bicyclists should check it out...
Back to the build: There are so many things to do... I decided to go after prepping the fuel tank. Here's the in-tank pump plate nearly ready for welding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The pump I'm running (Aeromotive Phantom 340) has a large piece of foam that sits in its own perforated, rubber-ish "sump". Anyway, this contraption interfered with the stock tank's internal baffling so I sliced out the bottom of the tank to remove it and create the needed clearance.
You can see the "small hole" I now need to close up!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good! Dang, perfectly cut replacement panel...
Nice work Chris. I'm starting to think we ( as in you ) need to start doing videos of this.
I would gladly be the videographer for this project. Have a access to a couple of 4K cameras and a sling studio so we could stream this work live.
Sorry all if I get distracted and you miss so of the action or all of the action, you would understand.
I would get the test stream setup, before I got distracted and started to watch Chris work, and all you all get shots of is the floor or ceiling. I know everyone would understand.
Nice to see ya back, but yeah you deserved a break! That tank panel is slick.
Tuned in for more.
What you couldn't see in the earlier pics is that one of the corners of the plate needs to curve to match the profile of the tank. I hadn't started on that yet.
So first, I did a rough bend to get that corner closer to the correct shape. This allows for a more accurate scribe/cut line. If I tried to scribe the cut line before I bent the corner, I'd end up removing too much material - the corner will "fall inward" as it's bent down, meaning I need more material there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I applied some Dykem. Mostly to make the scribe line show up better in the pics, but it does make things easier to see.
Then I use the handy dandy Harbor Freight body saw to make a rough cut.
I just want to get close with this cut.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, it's the drum sander to take the opening to the line.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Finally, it's "fit, drum sand, fit, tweak the corner bend, fit, drum sand..." until things slip into place and I'm happy with the fit.
Done and done!
There is usually a bit of minor tweaking, maybe some hammer and dolly, as the welding is happening, just to get the edges aligned as cleanly as possible.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It wouldn't be in keeping with my build if I didn't do something at least twice. So why would I expect this to be any different?
After removing the stock sump via cutting a large hole in the bottom of the tank, I was able to see how it's attached to the tank. Turns out I could have just drilled out four spot welds. Easier to start over with another tank!
This one had a bit of pocky rust starting on one spot so I figured I'd patch it. I probably
could have just treated it but I'd rather have clean material. Here's what needs to be closed up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the same filler panel (weld through primered) fitted to the "new" tank. You can see the spot weld holes I need to fill. Far simpler than the patch I'd have had to do to the other tank.
Plus, this one's far cleaner on the inside and out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fuel pump plate welded in. Still need to fill the spot weld holes and the original fuel in/outlets but I feel like I made some progress this weekend!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next up is relocating the fuel filler.
Rough cut of the mounting plate fresh off the plasma table to check placement...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'm running a Holley HP ECU so I figured they deserved at least a little bit of credit.
It's actually quite a nice piece.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This is such a great build. It is a learning experience to follow it!
I never knew I needed a plasma table but there is no doubt now.
I need to try making some pieces with my manual press...
Did you mig or tig weld that panel onto the tank?
John
For this location and application, I wanted the plate to be flat across its entire surface so I added a small eyebrow to close the gap where the tank rolls over.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it's the same drill as before: scribe, body saw to cut the rough opening, drum sand 'til it fits.
Hope to get it welded in tomorrow.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Just getting a feel for how it'll all layout, which way to orient the pump / run the fuel and vent lines, etc.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Doing what I can to disappear the welds. Should look pretty good after powder coat.
Attached thumbnail(s)
On to the hydraulics. I have to get the reservoir lines into the cockpit as the Tilton pedal M/Cs live right on the back of the assembly.
So first version is figure where to drill the hole, drill it, install grommet and install the first line.
Simple enough. But I'm not sure I like the 90 degree bend.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So, just to see, I fabbed up a panel that adds an angle and used 45 degree fittings.
This solution would be more work but I do like it. We shall see...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Mocked into place. I'd weld in end panels to fully close things off.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Whichever way I go with the hose routing, this is essentially final layout for the reservoir. Hoses not pushed all the way on as they are no fun to remove...
Attached thumbnail(s)
There you go just cobbling stuff together without thinking about the details again.
I admit, I thought you were insane until I saw the pick of your 45 degree bracket. That does look nicer and I assume less strain on the hose.
Why do I check this thread
Great work as usual Chris.
Now to get my stuff done so I can get back to my builds.
BTW, love the drivers side gas fill.
Thanks guys. It's always a motivation helper to get feedback, good (and otherwise!)
So thinking about the design of this panel got me wondering if I could get a little fancier and pull off a nicer final piece. After all, if I haven't given it at least three tries, I know I'm not done yet...
So, what's going on here?
Attached thumbnail(s)
It struck me that if I redesigned the panel like above, and if I got my bends right, those tabs would end up touching and I'd have a much tidier outer edge.
And it worked!
Attached thumbnail(s)
My TIG welding is coming along and these little pieces are great practice, ahead of tackling the flares.
With the tabs joined, all I had to do was cut a little triangle and weld it in. I still haven't totally dressed the weld but you get the idea.
I'm happy with how it turned out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, that hydraulic line set up is awesome.
Love the tig work. Really fantastic. I think NASA would
approve! Keep at it man. I need to apprentice under your guidance.
Cheers
Decision made, complete with holes drilled!
And don't miss the front brake line bulkhead fitting. It's a T on the other side. Pretty tidy.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I figured it was time to get the radiator mounted. Still a few minor tweaks and some holes to drill to secure all the panels.
Suddenly, the frunk is feeling a bit crowded.
Attached thumbnail(s)
While I've been doing so much at the front of the car, I remembered I had a GT headlight kit. Got it from our friends at 914 Rubber:
So I started the install. A new opening has to be created for the "catch and release" lever. I have some add'l shaping to do but you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the "catch and release" lever in place.
Overall, I'd say it's a really nice kit. You will have to supply some of your own hardware but it's only a few fairly standard fasteners so not a big deal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Are you planning to fully shroud the radiator so you have a small parcel shelf?
As always, loving the progress!
Well, it's been an interesting morning. The net/net is that I now have lots more time to get this build done!
Who wants to join in and welcome me to RETIREMENT!!!
Congratulations Chris! This has been a long time coming...enjoy the freedom!
Tony
That's awesome and judging from your thread, you have got plenty to keep you busy!!!
Congrats Chris. That’s awesome. Enjoy it, hopefully no one will say
“Chris, you need a hobby!” “What are ya gonna do with all that free time”
We know what you’ll be doing. This car is gonna take off now.
Cheers mate, we’ll done!
Yep, it's all better than good. As I said to my wife:
"It's now official, I have a nice package!"
Congratulations! Good luck with your new package too!
Congratulations!
Time to open up that 914 resto shop...
I think we are the winners here.
Woot woot!!!!! Big Congrats!!!
Well deserved!
Excellent! Congratulations.......now you'll have so much time to do anything you want or nothing at all. I expect to see this one running by spring. What do you think?
I can't believe I'm actually starting on connecting things vs. making them!
Here's a first-cut mock up to determine throttle cable bracket geometry.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is great news, and well a bit sad. Great for you enjoy the retirement, enjoy doing the builds, and working on the stuff you want to work on. Spending the time with the people you want to spend it with. Now back to my reality I have 8 left before I can hit the eject button, unless plans change. And plans always change.
And I agree you need a trailer, I am sure you can fab some ugly looking trailer to tow behind the masterpiece.
The 1/4" all thread performed its job for mock-up so it was time to figure out what to do for a final part. I used to be into motorcycles and in poking around in the parts boxes, I found the shifter for an Aprillia Mille.
Hmmm. Cast aluminum, just like the pedal assembly. I-beam design, just like the pedal assembly. Maybe this will work.
A little band sawing, welding, drilling and taping later and it's ready!
It'll all be hidden inside the tunnel cover but I think it's pretty neat.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Italian part in a German car.
That'll be the part that breaks.
More work connecting things. Today I worked on starting to close up the lower fire wall. This means I have to determine how to route the shifter cables. It always looks simple until you REALLY start fitting things with other things in place.
Note that the Boxster shifter cables have big, unremovable end assemblies so I can't just run then through a "little" hole. I need something that can split but still seal the cables.
Version 1 seemed simple enough: Make a little split panel with split grommets that was large enough to cover a hole that the cable ends would fit through. I iterated through about 5 attempts on the design (and plasma cutting of each one) before I ended up with something I liked. It looks like this:
Attached thumbnail(s)
The shifter cables do flex, but not so much that they could be made to come through the fire wall at 90 degrees. I didn't really understand just how far off they were until I tried to install the panel. Nope...couldn't even get it close.
So, Version 1 (a simple panel against the firewall) pretty much didn't even get to a mock up install before it was clear it was a non-starter.
I took some measurements and figured it'd be best to make an angled box that retained the split panel I'd already made. Three iterations on this one before I got it to where I wanted it.
But in the end, it works! Cables sit in a relaxed position and the grommets are perpendicular to the cables. Yaaa!
Including the various designs, plasma cuts, etc. I have about 6 hours in this little deal-io.
I would say "I'd better keep my day job...", but that's off the table!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with the split panel.
Nice, relaxed cable position in the 2nd pic.
Oh yea, and that other hole on the upper right side of the main panel? That aligns with an allen head bolt that allows for the alternator belt to be adjusted.
(I can't believe I remembered to account for that that as I was laying out design!)
It'll get a removable plug.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I finished it off with a reinforcement plate.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Earlier fails... or would I feel better calling them prototypes?
Attached thumbnail(s)
I can't believe after all of this you still have stock seat rails and adjusters
Chris looking real good. Love that shifter!!
So much trial and error when building a custom car!
Looking good, those shifter cables are pretty thick and inflexible.
John
Rear brake and clutch line bulkhead fittings located. Also found a little flush plug for the alternator adjustment access hole.
It's going to get more crowded down there with the supply and return fuel lines but it's coming together pretty well.
At least until I realize I've once again forgotten something!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fabulous work as always. It's fun watching you work through these complexities and seeing how plan B, C, or D turns out just as perfect and professional looking as the first idea.
Chris, a belated congrats! I have been off the grid for a few days in Ireland. I'll have a pint ( or many) of Guinness in celebration of your retirement, and again next time I see you with a proper bottle of vino!
And could you hurry up with the car, I would like a ride this spring when back in Napa.
New mods looking ok I guess...
Cheers,
John
I made another stamping die set and added a raised section to each side of the panel. Then it was trimmed so it can go in and out as I figure out final placement of everything.
I also welded in the cable pass-through.
The nice thing about all this is now that I've worked up all the dies and related plasma files, I can pretty quickly recreate the panels, should I screw up on anything - or change my mind on any aspect of the design. Not that I have a habit of that...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I started work on locating all the components of the electrical system. Not insignificant in that I'm running the Infinity Box system. While it does eliminate nearly all the wires that would run from the front to the rear of the car, I have to determine where to mount the three (3) magic boxes that make up the system. Plus, I have the Holley ECU.
Then there's the A/C components and the heating system - more on that later...
It drives home just how small these cars are. Or maybe I've been a bit too agressive in what I'm trying to include in this build? We're about to find out.
Anyway, my good buddy Gareth volunteered to come by and help out today. So we designed and fabbed a mounting plate for the Infinity Box "Master Cell". It's the main brain that drives two "Power Cells", one at each end of the car. I'll post details as things start getting mounted.
I'm locating the Master Cell in the approximate location of the stock fuse block. Since this system is programmable, I need to be able to access this and mess with it. So this plate will utilize a hinge system that allows it to fold up to be out of the way and fold down to make it easier to get to, if needed.
A little plasma table, bender, knock out punches and dimple dies and we're all set!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I decided to remake the Infinity Box brain tray. It's thinner material (20 ga) and since I'm starting to consider the weight of everything I'm doing, I added some additional lightness to the design.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Speaking of weight, the upper fire wall design wasn't doing it for me. Too many pieces, lots of fiddly fitting and I wasn't liking any of the designs I came up with for closing in the top area, between the window and the removable cover.
So, now that I'm no longer working a day job (!), I have plenty of time to redesign and fab parts I've already made (at least once already!)
So far, this design is way simpler and gives me a roomier cockpit. Hard to explain but you'll get an idea once the pieces start coming together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking forward to the seeing the install and programming of the Infinity system.
One seat in the center would be incredible!
So I removed EVERYTHING I'd previously done. It really is back to "Square 1"... or in my case, "Square Zero"? Are there negative squares?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I redesigned and fabbed a new base panel. This now sits flush against the rear of the arched support. Plus, overall, it's lower. This will give me more room behind the seats.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Rough mock-up of the driver side main panel. Compared with the previous design, this also sits further back. It reduces the number of parts (and weight), is easier to install and again, creates more room in the cockpit.
Yes, I'll add something to prevent oil-canning.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Playing around with designs to close off around the door bars.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'm not (yet?) skilled enough that a paper template transfers to directly to metal so after approximately 8,347 trips back and forth from test fitting to the angle grinder I have a nice fit!
And a special "Thanks!" to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1608 , @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 and others who turned me on to the 3M abrasive products. SOOO much nicer to work with. Faster, cleaner cutting and they last what seems to be 10x over the "bargain" brands. Highly recommended!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sorta like this. Still a ways to go but I like this design a lot more.
Now onto fabbing that same panel for the other side and adding a section across the top.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Do you have on of these in your toy barn?
Might cut down your trips from test fit to angle grinder to approximately 4218.5. I do like that design but will need to see it with the seat in position. Assuming you will do some fancy bead work on that back panel?
Yes, those 3M abrasives wind up quite a bit cheaper than the bargain brands, although I posted on Cary's channel repair thread about my dissatisfaction with the 36g Cubitron belts. Will be interesting to hear his experience with those. I still wonder if I just got a bad batch because it is hard to imagine they would have made it past QC.
Keep on fabbing man!!!
Since you have a plasma table, just cut out the pattern you want to put in the panel, tack it up, and smash it with that nice press.
I am thinking you could match the factory panel.
Nah what's the fun in that
Watching & learning. Amazing the arsenal of tools
Chris has.
My shop has been using Klingspor Abrasives (mfg. in Germany) forever...tried the less expensive and NO bueno
For those who may enjoy a bit more detail, here are a couple vids of the fab process for the Infinity Box brain tray.
1. plasma cut the panel
2. add 90 degree bend to the edges
3. use the knock out punch to cut the hole for the dimple die
4. press the dimple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE49K950CLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Wfd5SDCnY
First attempt at the one-piece top section. I find it difficult to determine all the measurements ahead of trial fitting, what with all the different angles and stuff that gets in the way.
So I approach things like this with a "get as close as possible and if it ends up a practice piece, oh well..."
This first effort fit well in most areas - but not all - so: practice piece it is!
I chalk these sorts of things up to simply being a cost associated with learning.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I updated the upper panel design with the lessons learned from Version 1. There are still a couple imperfections but I think I can live with them.
With that done, I moved on to fine tuning the fit of the driver's side panels.
Then I started playing with the "rivet strip". I think I'm going to have these run only on the vertical edges of the panels behing the seats. Again, we'll see as all the pieces get fabbed and fit.
So far, so good with this design.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Mock up of the current plan for the top of the doghouse.
914s really are about the corners!
Attached thumbnail(s)
The shop just got a bit more crowded.
And so much for retirement. I'm now a member of the fab team at Orbis. Only part time. Check out the 4-wheel drive Civic Type R hybrid. This really is pretty cool stuff. We just got back from a successful week at SEMA, showing off the Civic.
https://orbisdriven.com/
so - this Lotus 7 replica is going to be converted to a 200 hp, 4-wheel drive electric vehicle via installation of Orbis wheels at each corner.
This will be a great learning experience.
Will 2 of these wheel show up on the front of my 914? 430 hp to the rear wheels and 100 to the fronts? What could possibly go wrong?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Are you freakin' kidding me? The master fabricator has gone pro.
Congrats Chris, that is awesome! We’ll be seeing you in F1 next!
Yes I see some of that tech in your build.
https://orbisdriven.com/
take one perfectly good wheel and completely reinvent it.
It sounds right down your road, Chris.
Enjoy the ride. However, us hangers-ons will be be needing regular 914 LS fixes... Just sos you know...
Awesome!!!!! Congrats on the fun gig!
I've been thinking of ways to power the front wheels via an electric motor for a while now. 100hp is just about right to make things interesting!
So the teener will be delayed a bit more (too funny). As stated you are the "right man for the job!". I am glad this came to fruition for you Chris. Regarding the wheel: Do you think they will be able to get that "hum" out of the system? The demo alone is enough to drive me off/crazy.
T
Congrats on the new gig.
https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2714.htm
Neat idea, been tried a few times, this might be the right time with materials and tech being much better now.
Cool deal! Sounds like fun!
The exposed bearing wheels and gear kinda sketch me out for a production application, but still neat. Most modern attempts at the fixed center automotive wheel I've seen use something like a Franke wire race bearing. Not really sure what it buys you over a hub motor with planetery gearbox and rim mounted brake rotor (for clearance) though.
https://www.franke-gmbh.com/bearings/basic-information/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM-sbDfJgPg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ4lTPVR3qc
10k?
Thats right where I was thinking it should be! Very impressive.
Yes congratulation Chris, well earned.
Enjoy the venture capital ride. So while your in this game I will give you the advice I found out early in my career, you have two bags. One is for money they will pay you for your talents, and ideas. The other is for all that comes with the work. When ever either bag gets full it is time to leave the game.
It was only a matter of time that word got out about your mad skills. Congrats Chris!
I saw the exhibit at SEMA but didn't know that you were involved - as a former Honda tech, it was interesting to see how technology can improve even a new platform. It would've been good to meet you there....congratulations on moving to the next phase of fabrication engineering!
Back to the fire wall. The never ending fire wall.
And it's got me to thinking: Are they called "mad skills" because developing them is infuriating?
Note that I'm in no way claiming I have them, and let me just prove that right now.
The latest effort is to fab the upper "cap" of the fire wall dog house. Again, if only I'd paid more attention in Geometry class.
It went something like this:
- Figure out how much clearance is needed inside the dog house and be sure it doesn't interfere with the seats on the outside surfaces. This determines the plane that makes up the sides of the dog house.
- Calculate all the angles needed to connect everything. Everything being the sides, the angles they join the main fire wall panels behind the seats, the angle those main panels intersect with the remaining upper section of the stock fire wall.
Work out the angles for this upper "cap", which has to serve as the part that connects and locates most of these pieces.
- Oh, and then be sure there's a nice step around the opening for the removeable panel.
How hard can this be?
Protractors and levels and a laser that projects a line and lots, lots of measuring.
I wanted do more bending than welding so I tried to work out how I could fold things and ended up with this pattern design.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Bender! Such fun trying to work out the bend order so things don't end up interfering with secondary operations...
Can you believe I got it wrong the first time?
Fail #1
And don't bother counting, I'll total it up for you at the end...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wait, this looks out of order. There are no bends in this piece!
I determined I had to add the step BEFORE any bending.
Add a couple fails ahead of this BFO.
Sorry. BFO = Blinding Flash of the Obvious.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So, add the beads, then do the folding. Actually, it worked out that I had to add one bead, then fold up the sides, then add the bead to the side sections. Failed there the first time I got to that point.
Oh, you didn't know that when you fold at other than a 90 degree angle, the bead on the adjoining surface needs to be set at a different dimension?
You do now!
And I think I did to, as I posted about this earlier. But, I forgot.
A couple fails here as I remembered then worked this out...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And finally. All nice and lined up on both corners!
Now to mess it up welding those open corners.
Attached thumbnail(s)
In conclusion, here's my Fail Display. Only SEVEN (7) tries (from right to left) as I evolved the design then perfected (ahem...) the process to fab the part.
Good news on all fronts:
1. The part is where I wanted it to be
2. My swear jar is full!
"Mad Skills", indeed.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I am amazed with your fab work and neat-o collection of tools!
Boy that's good stuff! Glad you refilled that jar too. I had to upgrade mine to the jumbo size.
Fitting up the sides of the upper panel. Lots of "sand, fit, sand, fit..." to sneak up on the final shape.
Things came together nicely on both.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I changed the design - imagine that! The entire lower doghouse will be removable. It gives me tons more access than having just a removable front panel.
Here, I'm just playing with fit and how I like the overall look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A work of art, just like that driver seat! By the way will that seat bolt in or will you have to fab something for it to fit?
To quote AC/DC:
"Back in Black"
Some stock parts, some of the items I fabbed. After nothing but raw surfaces, it's so nice to see things in a final finish.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And since retirement, my yard art business is picking up. So I decided to upgrade my plasma table. I ordered an Arclight Dynamics 5'x5' table with adds on that support engraving (think marking for holes, bend lines, script, part #s, etc.) a tube cutter that handles up to 8" tube, and a router attachment that can do 3d carving in wood and plastic.
If you're interested in details: https://arclightcnc.com/
This is going to be very cool!
Chris did you pickup the Auto Tracer also, that sounds like a neat addition for guys that do CAD. We can do both Computer and Cardboard Aided Design.
Nice to take a paper or cardboard template and use the Auto Tracer to make the part. I think you could also use it for taking stuff you might have done in lets say 22 ga, and moving to 14ga or plate.
Neat table, I like it
Nope, I didn't like that last design. Too many sharp corners. So, while I like this new design far more, it's more complicated. Awesome, more "experience" coming my way...
Anyway, here's the latest as I mock up, trial fit, sand, tweak, etc.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow I look at those compound miters and the excellent fitment and just drool. Awesome work Chris.
I'd say there was a therapy group for all problems, but I'm afraid yours is unique.
That is way too nice looking to cover in dynamat and carpet!
You are making me REALLY want a plasma table...
John
I think a lot of us could gather round.
Problem is we would only reinforce our tendencies to keep tinkering forever.
John
but we would make one hell of a choir
The remnants of sneaking up on the desired fit.
I always snip then pick up the off cut. You DO NOT want to step on one of those things, believe me.
Then to get the desired corner radius, I lay the edge on the 1" tube and use the nylon mallet to just drop the edge of the part.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nearly ready for tacking in place. A little bit more fitting to do. I still need to work the corners at the lower edge of the piece.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the overall, as it sits at this point.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Am I the only one seeing a similarity?
Attached image(s)
In the category of "while I'm at it...", I decided to see if I could up my design for the firewall doghouse and stamp in some recesses for the cover panel and its fasteners.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 Stephen, here's an example of what you asked about in your PM:
The blue lines are the raw panel. The white lines are edges of the male/female die set.
The gap between them is ~2x the material thickness. Just a guess for the first attempt. If it works, great! If not, it's back to the drawing board and I change the size of the gap.
(Or, it may not work out at all and I go another direction.)
The larger purple ovals are slots that I can use to align the panel in the die set.
I hope to do a trial stamping later today. Fingers crossed...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
A quick trip to the metal shop for some 12 gauge plate, a bit of plasma table and some edge finishing and we have the die set.
The die material thickness determines the depth of the stamping. I want the step to be thicker as I want to make the removable cover out of .050 aluminum (maybe thicker) and I also wanted some clearance for the fasteners.
Let's see how this turns out...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Clamp the raw panel to the lower die, position the upper die, using the alignment slots and place in press.
(Note that the die that's under the panel is cut to the same outer dimension as the panel. This makes is simple to get the die and panel all nicely aligned.)
Cross fingers, say a prayer, twirl around 3 times while chanting to the fabrication gods...
Then hit the "go" button!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fresh out of the press. Hmmm... I see a bit of a non flat spot at the nub at the 10:30 ish position.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yep, not quite right in that one area.
Attached thumbnail(s)
What to do? I reassembled everything and put it back in the press. I went nub-by-nub and pressed each area again! What do you know... It worked!
It is pretty neat to be figuring out how to do this sort of thing. I really like what it adds to the overall design.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with a successful proof of concept, I figured I'd see if I could update the existing panels. It's a bit trickier in that I'd already fit them and added some bends. You can see that the die ended up just a bit off and one side of the fastener indent is sharper than the other.
And now that I see where the fastener indents actually end up on the trimmed and fit part, I think I'll cut a new die set and move them to "better" locations. The upper- and lower-most indents need to be farther away from the ends of the panel, IMHO.
In all, a great learning experience. I proved to myself that I can execute this technique on a reasonably complex shape. I have a few other places on the car that I can use this sort of thing, too.
I'm calling today a success.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is a great looking
Thanks Chris the PM explains the process and the pictures filed in the blanks.
We will talk at some point
Off to do a bit of calculating, measuring, and then order some Steel and Aluminum, I really need to upgrade my press.
Some more analysis led me to updating the die set. I was after three changes:
- move the upper- and lower-most fastener recesses farther away from the corners
- less depth in the step for the removable panel
- a tighter radius on that step
So I redesigned the die and narrowed the gap between the pieces. I also made the male die with an opening and some slots, thinking this might make aligning things a bit simpler.
The last change was that I used 14 gauge vs the 12 gauge of the first set.
Clearly, one of the only times I go for function over form!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I figured out a couple tricks that really helped: I used two blocks of 1" aluminum to sandwich the dies. These provided nice, smooth surfaces to back up the dies.
This was important in that I have to use both sides of the die set to make the mirror image side panels. These blocks eliminated any change of marring any of the die surfaces that would end up being stamped into the panels.
Anyway, here they are. The step is much more crisp and the fastener areas more even.
I'm really happy with how these turned out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This kind of work does not belong in a 914 forum!
Ha ha, just kidding, that is awesome.
John
The pressed pieces came out great!
Dupe post!
The pressed pieces came out great!
Today I cut V1 of the dog house side panels. Next is to design something to stamp in these to add some stiffening and visual appeal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Today was fitting the stamped recess side panels.
I first have to get them to fit at the upper part of the dog house. A lot of fit, trim, fit, sand, fit to sneak up on it. It is a bit tricky, what with the all the angles, but this turned out better than the earlier effort.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Once that panel is fit, I have to fold the outer edge and create the inner vertical landing area for the main fire wall panel. This is also lots of fun as this fold has to place this part of the panel in alignment with angles on two other separate pieces.
The fab gods were smiling on me today and I got it right where I wanted it.
This pic shows how it aligns with the corner area of that upper piece, to the left of the dog house top.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then just do it all again on the other side! Here you can see how the side panel has to fit at the bottom.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One thing the plasma table doesn't do is leave any sort of nice radius edge.
So I tried out using a conditioning pad on the angle grinder to see if I could soften the radius of the removable cover parts.
You can see how sharp the raw edge (right) is vs. the left one, which is after hitting it with the conditioning pad. I'll need to tune the edge a bit more and see if I can get it more consistent.
Attached thumbnail(s)
But even a first try makes a noticeable difference.
Raw edge:
Attached thumbnail(s)
And so no one thinks this part came together any easier or faster than other parts of this build, here's the "evolution" of the side panel designs. Read from left to right, with the current "final" design at the bottom. (And this isn't even all of them... but you get the idea.)
On a related topic, I just finished "Grit" by Angela Duckworth. A good read, if you're looking for one. I came away from it with insight into some of the reasons I tend to do the things I do, like redoing things multiple times. Quite interesting...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow! What is there to say, you are in the most elite league now. Love the evolution shot. I can see the monkey slowly standing upright to walk like a man there.
I sold the "old" plasma table a bit more quickly than expected so no progress on the firewall until the new one is here, up and running. It comes fully assembled and shipping would have been $1100. Seeing as it comes with 1/2 day of training, I decided to head to Bend, OR (where it's manufactured) next week, get trained and bring it home! I borrowed a friend's enclosed trailer so it'll be safe and sound.
Even better, I'll be stopping by @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=626 for a visit and to check out his build. Can't hardly wait to shake hands with a friend and see his great work in person.
And, no surprise but as I was finalizing the dog house, I ran into an interference issue that necessitates a redesign of the side panels. That means new stamping dies, too!
Ah, well. But it helped me realize it was time I get serious about computer designing more things. I've wasted too much time and material with my not-so-rapid prototyping.
So, I upgraded my digital toolbox. Any guesses what this may portend? So far, the BendTech tools seem pretty capable and easy to use. Anyone else using BendTech? I'd be interested in talking with you... @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=87 ?
So hey @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 - let's design and bend up the rest of your cage!
And seriously, if I can help anyone with what these tools can do, please let me know.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So today I made the last hose for the reservoir. Turned out pretty nicely.
I can't wait 'til all this new stuff is attached to a painted tub. It's gonna look lots better.
Hopefully soon.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I swear, you should keep all your first try pieces and just sell them as a bundle to someone, they are always so good!!
I know I've said it before but that new tool is way way too cool!!!! You just have to design a cage once, then bam it's in your file and you can replicate it any time with little effort... Totally awesome retirement tool. The Red Barn is going to need a website and a list of products pre-designed for immediate sale...
As soon as I get my car back on the road I'll schedule a time with you to come and finish up the cage.
After a 3 day trip, driving to and from Bend, OR... It's here, in place and almost ready to go!
And a BIG thanks to Dan ( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=626 ) and Becky for being super host and hostess and putting me up on Tuesday evening! It made the trip much less stressful.
As a bonus, I got to see his car up close: it's a beast! He's done a fabulous job on a very challenging chassis repair. Much of it you can't even tell is a repair! Very nice. (Now hurry up and get it done!
)
Back to my world: If anyone needs me, I'll be in the shop learning this incredible new tool!
Attached thumbnail(s)
No, I haven't given up on my build. I've been focused on learning the new plasma table (which is already generating revenue!), shop organization and completing a couple customer projects.
I decided to go all in on my air system so I built a "compressor shed" on the back of my shop to free up more space inside. Next, I started plumbing in a RapidAir line system.
As part of that, I made up this water separator. Air comes into it right off the compressor and the vertical runs help force the water to condense and each set of legs has a drain valve.
The end of the 45 degree run will plumb in to a 5-stage air filter/dryer set up. I run another 4-stage filter dryer just before it heads into the plasma system.
In all, I should have PERFECTLY clean and dry air throughout the shop and super duper awesome air for the plasma table.
Now to patch up the sheet rock and get things painted...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Good to see ya back. Was a little concerned Chris.
The “water separating system” is ART in & of itself !
Brilliant. Looking forward....
Beautiful work. I just about built one of those separators as it looks like the bomb for getting dry air in a tight space, but our air is so dry here that my little Sharpe separator seems to do the trick. But I'm lacking the wall art that you have now.
You constantly amaze me...keep up the good work. Don't forget to plan a dropped floor either...
T
There. I think that'll do it.
Thanks for your patience while I work through my OCD tendencies and finish the air system. Last steps are to run the lines around the shop (all the outlets are in place and ready) and test the system for leaks.
For those who may be curious, the main shut off is on the compressor tank. Note the brass disconnects that allow for the water trap to be removed as a separate assembly or be by-passed, if need be.
Soon, it's back to the 914!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wowzers!! Killer setup!
So can you give us a run down on the 5-stage air filter/dryer system that connects after the uhmmm pipe organ, trombone ..... plumbing?
Brand new engine delivered today: Hyundai D4BF IDI (indirect injection 4 cyl turbo diesel)!
Smaller and lighter than the LS3. A bit less power, too, but way better fuel economy.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, what are you up to now? Control of the entire free world?
Obviously not going into the 914. So what are you doing now?
You're giving procrastinators and slackers everywhere a bad name.
OK, OK, I'm not putting a 90hp diesel in the 914. It's a replacement for a buddy's Mitsubishi Delica 4WD van. We're doing the swap in a month or so.
But for now, let's get the flares on.
Attached thumbnail(s)
OMG!
Awesome!
But, is that fender done? or are you going to remake it... Maybe in titanium...
Today I got the driver's rear tacked on. Having worked on the car all this time in narrow body format, it's amazing what the flares do to the vibe of the car.
It's like its voice suddenly dropped an octave.
I'm digging the new "tough guy" look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I aligned the flare opening with the stock fender openings but it's funny how where you stand when you take the pics makes the flares look too far forward or back.
Here's one where I stood dead center to the rear wheel opening.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good! That last pic really shows the importance of choosing wheels and tires that properly fill that space.
You're on a roll!
Quick, Paint it!
The way the stance is now and those rims it looks like it’s ready for the
Baja or Monte Carlo Rallye.
Nice to see the progress again Chris.
Looking good Chris! Another mile stone.
The water separator looks great.. I might try that as well.. It's a good idea.
With all 4 flares tacked on, I can't possibly be the first but I just had to:
I like big butts!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Last one on. Now the tedious task of welding and finishing those joints and adjusting the lower ends to match up w/the original shape of the lower panels.
Attached thumbnail(s)
“Tranquility base here...
The flares have landed!
Looking good.
Sounds good.. Reshaping the bottom is fun..good progress..
That's.... Gonna take a long time to tig.....
Great practice though!
Looking great!!!!
Great stuff, flares really change the attitude of the car.
Nice progress.
Time to do some of the boring but necessary stuff. Today was starting the repair on the rust caused by the dreaded "foam in the rear fender".
In my case, both the inner panel that makes up part of the trunk and the outer needed repair.
Lots and lots of figuring out where to splice in the repairs, lots of "test fit, tweak, test fit again.
I got what looks to be a good fit on the inner panel and here it is temporarily tacked in place.
Yes, the outer panel/trunk gutter is proud to the inside of this inner piece. Looks odd at this point but it's in the correct location.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Early in the "test fit/tweak" process with the outer panel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice hammer work there!!
I've been waiting a long time for that hole to be repaired! Your car and I thank you.
This car. Is going to look amazing!
Test fitting is getting there. Gaps are looking good.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Now on the driver side, not looking so good. I knew this was going to need to be addressed and here you can see just how much of a crap repair someone did.
Any questions about how water got into the trunk?
I can't claim I'm the greatest metal worker but, come one. This isn't even close.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the crap repair also meant the tail light housings can't sit where they're supposed to so we have this lovely misalignment to deal with.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Curvey template tool to the rescue!
Capture the shape from the good side, flip it, and...see how bad the bad side is.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Cut some 18ga, measure and bend the flange, then it's into the shrinker to get the needed curve.
Then test fit/compare to the good side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I then used the bead roller to tip the other flange. I'll trim it to size later.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I understand fitting the tail lights in a Singer car takes them something like 40 hours.
Clearly not remotely close to Singer level but I must have done the "in/out" with the tail light 25 times.
I still have some hammer and dolly work and a bit more welding but it's only about 100 times better than it was.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the misalignment? She is fixed!
I was able to get the angle corrected as well as scooting the whole tail light inboard, back to where it's supposed to be.
I'm happy with how this came out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Today was getting the fender foam rust patch installed.
Fit it, check all the alignment, tack in place then fully weld it in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I went after the weld with 36 grit on a 3" air angle grinder.
Next, it's 80 grit on that same grinder.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Finally, it's 80 grit on a DA sander with a soft-ish pad.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Alignment final check. The trunk isn't fully adjusted, side to side but I'm happy with how this repair turned out.
Hopefully, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 will be, too!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very very nice!!!
Wow! What repair? Very nice work Chris!
Fantastic Thanks for giving the type of sanding disc #’s. That’s very helpful.
This newb is taking lots of notes. I know the weatherstrip is not in yet, even so..
looking at the one set of trunk/tail lite pics, the shut lines look great!
+1 on the 3M Cubitron discs. There is no comparison with anything else I've used and when you factor how much longer they last, not that much more expensive. They cut fast and cool.
I also switched to their 3/8" belts for the narrow belt sander. 80g Cubitron belts were fantastic, 36g were worthless. The coarse grit just flew off the belts in the first few seconds of use.
More repair work on the rear panel. This car had a 911 reflector added at some point and the installer "made openings" in the panel to affix the reflector. Notice I didn't say "drilled holes". Holes are round. These? Not so much.
So, I need to patch these but they we so not close to round it would have been ridiculous to try and shape the patches.
A cool little knock-out punch set to the rescue. It makes quick work turning the "opening" into a round hole. Note the before and after...
Now to cut some circles and close things up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Is that the Harbor Freight kit or something more upscale? I've had a hole punch set on my wish list for awhile but haven't really needed one enough to pull the trigger.
Chris,
What were those holes used for? You are just using the punch to create perfect circles??
The motor is out and almost on its way to a session on the engine dyno to get a base map/tune.
As I was looking at all that space I thought, "I wonder how much work it would be to get 993 rear suspension in this thing..."
Let's find out!
And yes, this likely means tube chassis-ing the rear of the car.
Oh, and go ahead and say it. I know you're thinking it:
"He's never going to get this thing on the road..."
Maybe not, but think of how much fun I'll have trying!
(Anyone need fully rebuilt, tricked out complete 914 trailing arms w/911 e-brake set up or a Tangerine Racing rear suspension pick up point kit?)
Attached thumbnail(s)
If anyone asks, it appears that a Boxster 6-speed slots right in and the 993 axles are the correct length.
Is it too early for a "so far, so good"?
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 looks great.. Hey in retirement you just need to enjoy things and it takes as long as it takes as long as you enjoy it.
Nothing wrong with fixing the rear suspension geometry too.
Very interesting with the 993 rear suspension Is there a 993 front suspension lurking around the corner that we can't see?
Also curious about the change in suspension dynamics: roll center location and how that plays with your chosen front suspension.
I love your out of the box thinking!
And,,, why not?
I remember a 914 race car with 993 suspension and a driver's seat in the midline of the car. It's too late tonight for me to search but it was a pretty cool set up.
I dunno...at this rate Chris - Lori can't stop working and you might have to go back!
T
I don't think it probably matters from a pure application viewpoint...I highly doubt this car will ever see more than 7/10 driving anyway. Its already been proven how capable even the stock suspension can be made to perform. Now, I think it is "way-cool" and am looking forward to seeing it come together but I also realize that by the time this is done Chris will have bought the rear suspension to a 991.2 Cup-Car and decided that was a better choice!
All in love, Chris, all in love...!
T
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 Your right, suspension geometry becomes much less important if the car will never be driven at full tilt.
Ok. I wanted to wait until I got it on the car before bragging on you but you beat me to it!
Real Story! Two days ago (7 pm ET or so) I called Chris and asked if he would do me a favor. I needed the aforementioned tunnels and diffuser support for my D-Sportsracer. Not only did Chris immediately say "yes" he had it in CAD the next morning and finished later that day (yesterday)! He dropped what he was doing to help me - I did NOT ask him to do that - he is just that selfless and gracious!
THANK you Chris for being so willing to help, my friend. You did ruin my opportunity to "pat you on the back myself"...first that is! The really cool thing about Chris, beyond his ability to fabricate parts; and having all the cool tech toys; and having time in retirement to do what he wants; is he is very KIND!
Tony
One for the OCD and/or fabrication crowd:
In stamping the firewall side panels, I initially used a 2-piece stamp (left, in the first pic) The, ahem, "problem" is that the male die has to be manually positioned which means a low likelihood of repeat-ability or even exactness as it's a crap shoot that nothing moves during the setup/stamping process.
In fact, though difficult to see in the earlier firewall pics, the "ledge" of the stamp wasn't consistent across the entire length of the panel edge... And as I'm sure @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 would agree ( ), this simply won't do!
So, I redesigned the stamping die and made it one piece. Yep, it's the one on the right. Essentially it's a reversible "flap" so I can stamp the mirror image sides and guarantee that the male/female areas stay perfectly aligned and give me a repeatable, controlled result! The 2nd pic shows the earlier style panel in mock-up placement in the die.
Sharp eyes may notice I increased the length of the lower, front edge - which is why this earlier piece doesn't really fit. This was needed to create a bit more room for a fastener I need to add. More on that as I get to it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the first blank of the new version.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The die is cut to the same outside shape as the blank. This make it pretty simple to get the blank positioned correctly and consistently. (Geez, it sounds like I'm going into production vs just making two of these!)
The oval cut outs are just to make it easier to verify the blank is correctly aligned in the die.
Here's the blank in position, ready to be pressed.
Just need to be sure to reverse the die before doing the other side's panel!
Attached thumbnail(s)
WAAAAAY better than V1. The step is totally consistent around the edge. (It almost looks like I know what I'd doing...)
Attached thumbnail(s)
CLEAN!
Hey! That could make a really cool rear bracket...! LOL
Looks impressive Chris!
T
And with no other work requests from Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 ( ), I went ahead with cutting and stamping the other side.
#mirrorimage, #imPRESSion
Oh, and pay no attention to that flywheel. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm up to. Seriously, pretend you didn't see it...
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 - it's true. I am a drama queen!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That hinged die is genius. Look how crisp those mirror pieces are. Glad you are finally stepping up your game!
Thanks to all for the kind words. It's been interesting to see how my skills have developed since I started on this build. I have a long way to go but I will admit to occasional flashes of things working out as planned.
With the new panels cut, it's back to the fiddly work of fitting things. I really went after getting all the surrounding pieces exactly where I want them, cleco-ing, clamping, etc., and sure enough, what used to fit, isn't quite where I'd thought it was. Lesson learned...
So, while I immerse myself in a bit of "been there, done that", the first of the new panels' fit is looking pretty nice.
Before I get too excited, I'm going to make the stamping die and press that center piece where I've Sharpied out the design. Back to the plasma table!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I impressed myself today. As I was looking for a piece to use for the center section stamping die. I looked at the side panel stamp and thought, "Wait a second! I can build all my tooling into one tool..". So I did.
Presenting: The Double Flapper Stamper!
Attached thumbnail(s)
It was a pretty quick "copy/paste" from the .dxf of the side panel stamp to create this one. The oval alignment slots are required as I couldn't make the outer shape match the already bent center piece.
Here's the part in place, ready for the press.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A bit of work to tune the fit, especially right at the corner. And I'm not looking forward to welding and grinding the step at that joint but then, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!
Onward...
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is going to look really cool when your done! Way too nice to cover over.
And one for the furniture folks. My wife has been asking me to make a small table for next to her favorite chair. I cranked out V1 this afternoon. Still need to wrap the top surface to give it some sort of ledge.
Hey, what did she expect? Wood and straight pieces???
Attached thumbnail(s)
Major milestone yesterday: The engine was delivered to Huffaker Engineering at Sonoma Raceway! (I'll always think of it as Sears Point...)
The engine is getting a bit of time on the engine dyno to get a baseline tune. I figured it'd be best to let the experts have the first go at setting up the ITBs.
Slightly off topic, but timing be what it is, yesterday was arrival day for the CSRG David Love Vintage Races.
Fittingly, there was also a memorial for Pete Giddings, one of the most popular stars of American vintage racing. He died in January after battling cancer...
I happened to be driving through the pits just as it was breaking up. Here are a few of the cars on display at the memorial. The craftsmanship on these beasts is unbelievable.
Two of the Alfas fired up and drove off. I don't think I'd even sit in them when they're running, let alone drive one in anger.
Fabulous and beautiful, terrifying and intimidating.
Godspeed, Mr. Giddings.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sorry, but it's more "not really 914" fab work this weekend.
Today, it was fitting the driver side doghouse panel.
About 173 "fit/trim/fit/sand/fit..." cycles. I still have the very final tuning to do but it's nearly ready for welding!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Just for fun, a test look at the raw removable cover side pieces. I plan to round them over at the corner then fab a center panel and weld it to these to create the one-piece cover.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I finished the day with a rough trim and a quick fab of the lower, center panel of the dog house. I still have to hammer around the lower corner radii of the side panels and do all the fitting but you get the idea.
Getting there!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks like the start of a Mark 19 Ironman helmet.
Looks like once the cover is one piece, you'll need to be able to flex at least one side a little to clear the recess for removal. What's the plan there?
I spent time today working on the lower front corners of the outer panels.
The goal is to hammer them to shape and most importantly, in alignment with the angle of the corner at the top. Fun!
I thought a good approach would be to cut a piece of appropriate radius tube and use is as an alignment/hammer form. It seemed that if I hold it in place at the top, it'll dictate where and how much I should wrap the corner at the bottom.
Here's the tube being fit as I'm trying to see if this will work.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then, after marking where the panel contacted the tube (that's where the wrap would need to start), I removed the tube and clamped it into the vice, held the panel as close to aligned as I could and started hammering the corner around.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Test fit, tweak, test fit, tweak some more... you know the drill.
Starting to get there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
All these pieces have to come together at the same time while maintaining the various angels and fitment in the earlier posts. So next I needed to work in the lower front panel. Lots of checking, clamping, tweaking, checking.
I got this far on the driver side lower and called it a day.
Another few hours to get all the final fits tuned and I should be able to start tacking things!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Final fitting... Let's weld this thing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I still have a bit of hammer and dolly work and bits of some of the seams to weld but I couldn't resist posting this progress. I'm REALLY happy with how it's looking.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is quite the access panel you have there...!
T
Enough progress on welding that I decided I would move to fabrication of the cover.
I figured I better put the seat in, just to be sure everything still fits!
It does! So then I worked up a CAD drawing and cut the center panel blank.
I clamped this (and both side panels) to the dog house and used the panel holes to
locate the drilling spots. At this point, the fasteners are temporary. I'll weld nuts on the back side of each hole for the fasteners. And they'll be button heads. I just happened to have these laying around.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I marked and rough trimmed the side panels.
The next step is to start hammering the edges around to meet the center panel and match the radius of the rest of the dog house. As always, I'm betting you get the idea of what this will look like.
Once the corners are ready, the three pieces will be welded and metal finished.
I'll likely stamp some reinforcing pattern into the sides and front. I'm still noodling on the design for that. Though I may make another cover from aluminum. Or use this as a mold and make one from carbon fiber/kevlar.
And I'm sure there will be some bondo involved on various parts of the firewall, just to get it to look super nice.
The plan is to paint it as well as stitch up a removable cover of some sort. Quilted diamond pattern? Straight ribs? Something else? So many decisions.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Damn those are nice seats...
I think diamond pattern will phase out.
You could match OEM with a big bubble and do piping around it like your seats maybe one horizontal beltline about an inch tall like your seats?
One thing us custom people need to consider is future proofing the design so it lasts more than 5-10 years without looking rediculous
Singer is where I'm starting to take design cues from as it's throwback timeless. They do some modern designs I don't think will stand the test of time but in general it's a really good example of what probably will stand up in 20 years.
Damn that's nice. I think even Chris Baker will be happy with that.
"And I'm sure there will be some bondo involved on various parts of the firewall, just to get it to look super nice. "
JB Weld is you friend here, it was originally designed to smooth aircraft skin. One of the few places I use the stuff.
Mad skills on display
Yes it should do that just fine, it can be shaped sanded , filed, if hit that the right set time, you can even shape it like putty, but that is a minimum work time in that state. just hit the area behind the repair with a bit of grit so it has a bite. And go to town. JB Weld is not good after heating so this is a last step thing, not a still welding kind of thing. I have used it in the past to make great repairs in 1970s body work on my Ghia coupe.
Gas welding with bronze fill achieves the same thing, or go old school and use lead. JBWeld is just easier to deal with in the long run. No tinning, no flame, no tallow, etc....
Time for some style points on the center panel. Here's a look into how I go about this sort of thing.
Starting on the left is the panel blank that's in the earlier pics.
To the right is a version that will have cut outs. I'm thinking I could first paint it, then rivet on, from behind, a polished aluminum panel. Maybe carry that look throughout the interior.
The next two items are a panel blank that the four, far right pieces attach to. It becomes the male stamping die to emboss raised or sunken shapes into the "plain" panel blank.
All the holes precisely locate each piece. This would be used if I decided to go with a "raised/sunken" look throughout the interior.
The cool part is, I can have multiple versions of the removable cover! After all, a girl can never have too many pairs of shoes!
I hope to get to some of this today. Should be fun to see how it turns out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A quick trip to the metal store to replenish my supply and...
Something like this? This is a new panel sitting on top of the earlier, plain one.
Imagine it backed up with polished aluminum... or maybe Lexan?
And I think I'll design up new side panels with some cut outs so everything is matchy-match.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's V1 of the side panels. I like this look and probably won't sweat these too much as you can hardly see them, once the seats are in place. Still, I want it to look nice...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Lexan might be cool but it will be noisy. My Cayman has a lexan cover and is much (and delightfully) louder than stock in the cabin.
Keep up the fantastic work!
Fitting the cover pieces in prep for welding. Overall, there are a few imperfections, but I think I can mostly hide and live with the mistakes.
I learned a lot the past few days as I was making and fitting these pieces. I know I could make some improvements were I to give it another go but unless something goes really wrong, I'm moving forward with this as is.
Once the cover is final welded, I'll work up the filler pieces and determine how they'll be attached. Rivets? Welded?
Or, I could make up some carbon fiber panels and bond them in. That might be pretty cool...
Attached thumbnail(s)
looks awesome!
Flux capacitor fluxing
Looks like something out of star wars!
Very nice
One side welded. I still have some metal finishing to do. It was lots of fun trying to control the shrinkage. It messed with the fit and caused the mounting holes to move a bit out of place. But with some hammer and dolly work, and a bit of muscle, I got things back to where they're supposed to be.
I stopped at this point today because the other side is going to be critical in that this side and the front panel (one piece, at this point) need to stay exactly where they are, in terms of the mounting holes.
I need to think through what's going to shrink and start with a fit that, after welding, ends up with things where they need to be.
I'm waiting til tomorrow and hoping to approach things with a fully fresh brain.
Wish me luck...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I found a piece of scrap carbon fiber so figured I'd see what it might look like as filler for the openings. Imaging this with the panels in paint.
I kinda like it!
I'll mock up some aluminum panels, many some with upholstery and see what I like.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Beautiful work Chris! I can't imagine what this kind of fabrication would cost...
Don't forget the pop out cup holder.
Here is Chris's "bracket" installed...it is 100x better than what it replaced! Thanks again for the time - well done!
T
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Brent and Tony - You've both been helpful in pointing out the potential for the cover to interfere with the dog house during installation and removal.
So I did a couple things:
1. I put a small spacer behind each mounting tab before welding the side panels on. (I still have to weld the driver's side). This simulates the protrusion of the top of the rivnuts I think I may use (vs welding a nut on the back side of the dog house).
2. I took this pic! It does an OK job of showing that the tabs aren't actually captured by the stamping recess. The cover comes off straight forward and, with those little spacers, there's no interference.
But big thanks for pointing out that possibility. It made me add the spacers and verify the fit in terms of real world use.
Hey, I can use all the help I can get!
And a few of you have asked about another "Red Barn Fabrication Day". I'll start a new thread and see who'd like to do what and we can get something on calendar.
If you're interested or want to let me know what you'd like to do, feel free to PM me, or post to the thread, once it's up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The really nice thing about the plasma table is that I end up using it as a (pretty) rapid prototyping tool. I'm only working in 2D so I can quickly work up a drawing and make the part. Literally, some of these things take just a few minutes, from start to finish. ANd if I don't like it, I've only wasted a bit of material. I don't consider any of this a waste of time in that it's all about learning and trying things out. I'm a physical learner and I need to see it, hold it, etc. before I know how I really feel about what ever it is I'm trying to make. Not the most expedient method, but what are you going to do?
I started making the main firewall panels, cut the driver's side and started fitting it. It's currently just a plain sheet so I'll need some sort of stiffening added. As with the dog house cover, I figured why not work up a similar cut out version and see if I like it?
Easy as that, I just added the cut outs to the drawing. Then I pulled everything together, just to sorta get a vibe of the look. Seems OK to me so it's back to the plasma table...
Note that very lower part is just an idea. It won't work as is due to the seat belt retractor locations be moved down there, as well as a few other things. I'll need to figure out something for that area pretty soon.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A few minutes on the plasma table and I have the cut blanks. But in terms of fitting them, I don't have the exact measurements for some of the trickier spots so it's fit, file, fit, file, til it's where I want it. I'm happy with this result!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And about 1.5 hours later, both main panels are shaped and fit, the lip is bent on the bottom (it'll get spot welded to the lip on the panel just above the acrched tube) and I'm ready for the next step. Which is to decide exactly what will back them up and how I want to attach everything.
There will be some welding, some rivets (I think) and maybe even some panel bonding.
But I think this is the design I'm going with.
Oh, and I'll have to come up with a couple small trim pieces, like something for around the door bars.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Every time I open this thread , it’s just amazing.
That carbon fiber detail is the ticket.
Way to go Chris.
Hey, who you callin' tacky?
Getting the other side tacked in REALLY locked things down. And now that the cover is all one piece, I'm happy to report that it goes on and off with no interference between the mounting tabs and the recessed areas. Very little risk of damage to what will be painted surfaces!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And what the heck is going on here??? I mean, I've heard of "roll bars" but this is ridiculous!
Well, those who attend the upcoming workshop day will see!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I almost finished welding the driver side of the cover. I thought I'd give a try to the silicone bronze rod. I like it but need more practice, as you can see.
Also, given how flimsy this piece is, what with all the cut outs, the welding caused a fair bit of distortion. The shrinkage had the front panel oil canning pretty badly. So those darkish areas you see are where I went after the high spots using just the TIG torch to do some heat shrinking.
It worked pretty well and the oil canning is gone.. I may make another cover, now that I've seen how these parts react.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I decided to give another go to making the cover to see if I could reduce the welding distortion.
This time, I'm going to stamp a recess into the panels ahead of fitting/welding. I'm curious to see how much of a difference this makes in the parts being a bit more resistant to distortion.
I haven't landed on if the carbon panels will still go behind the openings or, with the recesses, if I'll make carbon inserts.
I'll worry about that once I see how this turns out.
So, I cut new side panel blanks and made the male components of the stamping die. I still have to cut the female part of the die. The two small pieces can be mounted on either side of the plate so it works to stamp both the driver and passenger side panels.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I cut the female part of the die set and here it is, all assembled, with the panel blank installed, ready for the press.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I had a scrap of carbon fiber so I shaped it and taped it into the recess, just to get a vibe on how this design would look.
I think it looks more "finished" than just the flat panels with the carbon behind it.
Remember, I've dubbed this thing a "race rod" and this new look is less race and more rod. I think I could live with either.
And it'd be a lot more work to do the panels this new way as I'd need to make the same sort of stamping die set for the front of the cover as well as the main fire wall panels.
Would it be worth it when most all of it will be all but covered up most of the time?
Attached thumbnail(s)
For anyone interested, here's the plasma table cutting part of the cover stamping die. I find it mesmerizing to watch. And yes, I wear an appropriate shield (#8, if I recall). With the shield, I can get right down in there and see exactly what's going on. It's pretty neat to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XabU3uJWI8
Freshly cut parts ready to prep for use.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I prep the stamping dies by dressing the edges of the parts to knock off the sharp edge in an attempt to eliminate anything snagging/cutting during the stamping process. It seems to work.
After looking at this, all I could thing was: "As a kid, I always liked recess..."
Seriously, I like this look vs the earlier "plain" version.
Next, it's on to fitting and welding it up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I cut a test piece to get the dimensions for the door bar trim pieces.
I confess I was quite proud of myself in that I remembered the bar isn't at 90 degrees to the panel, which means the hole in the trim piece needs to be an ellipse, not a circle.
I was able to get a pretty good measurement, awkward though it was to get in there with the calipers, and the initial test piece fits pretty well.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I decided to go all in on the carbon fiber insert look. So today, I drew up and cut the stamping dies for the fire wall's main panels. Here's the driver's side done. It looks so much more refined than the one on the passenger side. Plus, it's a bunch more rigid with the shape it now has.
One thing you can just barely see (but that I didn't think through) is that the door bar trim piece will need to be a tic smaller in diameter as it nearly touches the edge of the recess. Not a big deal but one of those fun "Hmmm, didn't see that coming" moments that cause a small step back.
Ah well, just another of the joys of handmade...
On to the passenger side!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And if you're interested in a bit more detail on the stamping dies, here's a quick vid on how it all works. One of the folks on the ArcLight plasma table user forum asked for some details so I figured I share here, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqzP--Jd4c0
How are you going to attach the carbon fiber to the steel?
Man that looks great!!!
I reversed the stamping die pieces and completed the passenger side main panel.
This is a major milestone as that, for the first time, I have all the needed fire wall panels (in a design I like!) and I can begin final / permanent installation of the main pieces.
Attached thumbnail(s)
At last!
Looks great Chris, and thanks for the video it explained everything.
Off to CAD land - actually off to my son, as he is faster than I am and cheaper labor rates
That looks beautiful!
Looks great!
Thanks much for the compliments. It helps to hear from others that I'm not completely off track!
Today was prepping the fire wall panels for installation so nothing picture worthy.
The problem happened when I noticed the carbon fiber covers I'd made for the longs. I figured I'd give a go to fitting one. None of this sort of thing does anything to helping get the car on the road. But messing with the visuals does help with motivation.
It turned out pretty well and I think it'll look really good with the carbon inserts on the fire wall.
I'll need to come up with some sort of trim / covers for around the door bar verticals and out to the door seal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The raw panels were starting to rust where I regularly handle them so after removing the rust, I gave them a squirt of weld-through primer. I ran out of the silver so some of the parts got the copper-rich stuff.
In any case, adding the recesses to the cover panels really helped control the distortion. There was WAY less this time.
Or could it be because I was more judicious with the welding heat?
Or was it that I planished the tacks and test fit the cover after every 5-10 tacks?
Probably everything helped.
In the metal shaping world, a sorta rule of thumb is that the panel is ready if it requires only a finger's force (ish) to hold it in place against the shape of the buck. This pic shows the cover in place with no fingers! No fasteners, either. It fits perfectly into the recesses. Yes, there will be some filler to address some of the surface imperfections but overall, it's one of the best results I've been able to achieve so far.
And famous last words but I think I'm finally getting the hang of TIG welding. It certainly doesn't hurt that I get practice with the metal art I do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the first go at the seal for the removable cover. Just a simple rubber U-channel from McMaster-Carr. Nice and tidy and from what I can see from the engine's perspective, it looks like it'll work just fine.
Next on the list is to work out the cover fasteners. I ordered a couple different sized rivnuts and bolt head styles so I should know what's what early next week.
Once that's determined, I really need to get this fire wall fully installed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Boy that looks great!
Simplicity vs plainness. Simplicity can be elegant but IMHO, plainness is, in most cases, boring. So rather than doing something constructive, today I added some style points to the drive train spacers. You may recall that I used these to move the engine/trans forward in the chassis. They are totally visible, what with the trunk floor removed.
Anyway, they we just big chunky looking things so I cut some relief pockets in them.
Then I soda blasted the surfaces before draw filing them, leaving a contrasting finish in the pocket. I may come back and cut them deeper. But they sure look LOTS better. And hey, they're lighter, too!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is most definitely "Ore-Ida." Nice work!
Haven't been in this thread in a few days. Firewall is looking fantastic!
I am relieved too!
Today I got the rivnuts installed so the removable cover can officially be removed!
Then I started playing with fasteners:
- Countersunk washer with a flathead?
- Countersunk washer with button head?
- Just a button head?
(Geez, talk about a first world problem...)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Countersunk washer with a flathead is my favorite
With the upper fire wall pretty much set to go, I moved to the lower section.
I wasn't in love with the center panel I'd made earlier so...
Here's the latest version in comparison.
I enlarged the shifter cable pass through assembly and redesigned some of the main panel. It's a much better fit.
And there's the obvious matchy-match stamping/stiffening design.
As with most of the upper firewall, this won't be able to be seen unless the seats are out of the car. But I really enjoy the details and the design, cutting, fitting and welding are all great practice for things that will be more visible.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Mocked in place.
Note that I've also started a new version of the console so you're seeing the rear part of the lower section, which is all I have done so far.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here are details on the updated shifter cable pass-through:
- rivnuts instead of nut welded on the back
- it gets a nice little rubber seal around the opening
- there a split grommets that go around the shift cables and are then captured by this contraption.
- the final cover piece helps seal the seam of the grommet plate and every thing gets held in place by the button heads.
Fiddly, you say? Sounds about right for me!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Jealous!!
Very nice work there!
Never thought of going about a pass through in that fashion. That's just perfect and simple!
I'm trying a new-ish approach: Pick one task/item to accomplish each day.
Or, cheat and break things into smaller task so each one can be accomplished in a day!
It gives me a far greater sense that I'm getting things done.
Yesterday, it was the new console lower frame. Today, it's the bulkhead at the top of the console.
In mocking things up, it became clear that the slight downward tip the bulkhead frame has is going to make it that much more fiddly to route the hard lines for the fuel. I'd have to bend them over 90 degrees (total) unless that bulkhead was flat or tipped the other way. So...
I cut up the bulkhead panel I'd made earlier, made a new outer and used silicon bronze rod with the TIG to resolve the problem.
And in keeping with the "it's always something", the rear-most edge of this bulkhead will be fitted to the top of the curved firewall cross member. Hard to see much in the pic but it sits in contact all the way around:
Flat up front, curved in the back. (Hey, that sorta reminds me of my Jr. Prom date! )
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the completed bulkhead panel as it'll be spot welded to the bulkhead frame.
Attached thumbnail(s)
You can see the angle I now have vs what it would be if I hadn't wedged it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with the doghouse cover fitted. Yaaaa! All the fasteners clear!
For the nit-pickers (I'm the biggest one, remember), yes, this creates a bit of a "trench" around the panel where crap can collect. I'm calling it my custom hell hole!
I'll do some head scratching to see if I can't come up with some sort of something to minimize or prevent things getting in there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks good!!!
There are so many areas on the car that catch crap already.... What's one more?
And small goals turn into big goals
I like checking in on this thread. Awesome work happening.
Have you considered what McMaster calls "Truss Head" screws? They look to be lower profile and cleaner than standard button head screws without the rounded under edge.
Today's project was to throw out all of yesterday's work! I felt I could do a better job on the design of the center, lower firewall. Version II was better but didn't really address some of the issues I knew would bug me later on:
- with all the components in place, it's really fiddly to get the shifter cable cover plates on.
- the fuel lines would have to cross over the brake and hydraulic clutch lines somewhere before they got to the firewall panel.
- It was going to be fiddly (meaning not a lot of room) attaching the fuel lines to both sides of the bulkhead fittings. Not easy to access from underneath yesterday's panel, nor easy to get to them on the top side.
So, Version III it is.
- This moves the shifter cable cover plates right out front
- It creates room under the shifter cables so the fuel lines can run up the passenger side while the brake and clutch lines run up the driver side, eliminating the cross over
- I can more easily get to all the bulkhead fittings (those holes aren't yet in the panel, nor are those for the brake, clutch or throttle cable)
- It eliminates the "trench" that yesterday's panel created
I still have a couple stampings/hole for the above mentioned systems lines and final fitting to do but hopefully the new design is clear.
And I sliced up V2 and reused the outer sections as well as the shifter cable pop out. No sense doing EVERYTHING over again!
This first pic show things in place with the "old" console. I needed to use this as it has the shifter mounts that I needed to verify the new location for the cable pass through.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I was able to get the pass through pop-out's angles set correctly so that the cables are relaxed in both horizontal and vertical planes and essentially float right through the cover plates.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's after all the welding is done and finished, along with the latest version of the console base. Getting there. Slowly, but getting there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Amazing work. I keep coming back to this thread for inspiration.
I am amazed by what you are doing but can't help but feel that you are a a shoe-in to win the 2914 build-off challenge.
I really like where this is heading
OK, so back at it.
Today is coming up with the side panels for the new lower fire wall design.
First, using some construction paper, I worked out the dimensions and angles as best I could.
Why in the world didn't I plan ahead and do everything in nice, straight lines and 90 degree angles?
Oh, that's right, that would be too easy...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Many hours later, after a bit of swearing, realizing that bend order really is important ( ) and one minor hammering on one of my fingers, here's the part.
Still some final tweaking to get the panels to contact more closely in a couple of the corners but it's looking pretty good.
Now, to duplicate that for the other side. Hopefully, more quickly and with no finger smashing!
Also note that the console will be built forward from this contraption so most all of of what you're seeing here will be hidden.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Aesthetically, I think the bend in the panel looks amazing
Just flip the paper template over and cut the mirror image. No plasma table for these pieces; they were all cut and trimmed by hand. I scribe the lines, rough cut with the band saw or tin snips, then sand to the scribe line with a 3"right angle air grinder.
If I take my time, I can get a nice, straight line.
So here's the part, trimmed and with the first bend in it. LOTS of back and forth, fit, adjust, fit, adjust.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I won't bore you with the mundane, intermediate levels of completion. Here's the all but finished driver side panel!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Just plain love the craft going into this car. Beautiful work!
And the engine's view.
Next, it's figuring out the location for the bulkhead fittings for the fuel, brake and clutch lines and the throttle cable.
Geez, it looks like I'm almost ready for the final install of all these firewall pieces!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Working up a design for the hood vent. The overall shape is the same as the inner support structure. Initial thoughts are that this would be riveted to the outside of the hood as a design element.
The louvers still have to be attached in the design but in the end, they'll be rotated up to an appropriate angle.
Still lots to work out but it's a start.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like it
Did you reference any angles on say the hood or fenders? When I had a hood vent I noticed that since whomever built it didnt reference any body lines it just didnt look right.
Draft cut of the hood vent, just to get a vibe on it in actual position.
I only cut out 1/2 the louvers, again, just to see what I think of the basic shape and size. I'll give it a couple days and see how I settle into it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Or maybe I should forgo the louvers - they're so "been there, done that", and go with a bit of doggy style!
Attached thumbnail(s)
snoop dogg would approve!
I double dog dare you to go doggy style!
Ha! Looks good! Did you figure any calculations into the size of your arrangment? For the most part I'm just winging my radiator setup.
I am going to say just looking at the pictures, once the louvers are bent up, it will be plenty of exit area.
I spent some time playing with a design for the console. It may end up a bit taller than this little shape profile practice piece I have sitting there but I'm leaning toward leaving the shifter pass through and cables exposed. More race than rod, but then, that's the point!
And a preemptive reply to all you wise guys:
I like 1/4x20 all thread, I'm using it to mount my shifter. Deal with it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Another major milestone! I've been fretting about the Infinity Box wiring and where all the electronics are going to mount. There are three decent sized magic boxes that make up the master/slave components and I wasn't happy with any of the locations I was coming up with.
But today, as I'm sitting in the car making VroomVroom noises and fantasizing that I may one day actually drive it, I noticed the space behind the dash that's usually occupied by the air controls - that I won't be using.
What are the chances the main brain will fit there?
It does! However, that this unit needs to be accessible for programming and trouble shooting.
So I figured I could create a larger opening and fab up a flip-up cover for it. So I cut the dash up from the factory air control opening, leaving a bit of extra material that I could hammer and dolly to tip in a return to match the factory opening.
I've only started on the vertical edges but you get the idea.
This looks like it'll work great.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This is just an incredible build -period. I look forward to seeing this car together and driving. It will be in the realm of supercar status.
Looking at the dash today, I figured I'd have more flexibility if I just started from scratch.
Aluminum dash: Ready? GO!
Measure things. Turns out the angle from the top to the face is the same as the face to the lower return.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With spring back, I find it easier to match things visually. Fortunately, this little angle finder slots right into the brake and makes this a snap.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Repeat that same angle for the lower return then tip a 90 degree on the very underneath.
I still have to trim that back edge to length.
I plan to use the stock dash upper section - the part with the defrost vent cut outs - down just past the step. Then I'll rivet this aluminum component on to it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very nice!!!
Are you going to keep the aluminum finish or go with something else? With all the metal work you have there are so few places to show off the metalwork in s fashionable way.
As the saying goes:
"It's going to get worse before it gets better..."
A bit of slicing and dicing to narrow things down to the parts I need:
- the top-most portion of the dash
- the gauge mounting frame
Attached thumbnail(s)
You may know this already but, for anyone interested in salvaging parts that have been spot welded together:
I use a cut off wheel to grind through the spot welds from the side I won't be using.
Versus using a spot weld drill, this ensures I retain all the parent material on the keeper part and don't risk drilling into it. Go slow and it yields an almost perfect result.
Here's the gauge mount ready for reuse.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One dash kit!
OK, so it's missing a few parts. Give a guy a break.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Mocking things into place.
It still needs trimming in the gauge area as well as a panel below that area to join the two parts. I'll shape and weld on some sort of end caps, too.
Then it's time to work up the layout of everything.
I'll need an access panel for the InfinityBox brain, a switch panel, stereo, maybe some vents. Maybe even a glove box? It's literally a blank canvas so I have a bit of design work ahead of me.
And I wonder what's up with the missing shift lever...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The Version 1 dash is looking a bit too plain to me so today I played around seeing if I could bend up an all aluminum profile that approximates the top and bottom dash pad. This was only eye-balled so the dimensions aren't correct.
I mostly just wanted to see if I could do it. I think there's something between these two that I'll end up doing. More head scratching required.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it was back to the console and getting the bulkheads located. I mis-measured the holes for the fuel lines and had to close up the incorrect holes. Other than that, it's looking like I have the room I need.
The three smaller fittings:
the upper-most is for the hydraulic clutch and the lower two are for the left/right brake lines. I wasn't sure if I wanted to run a Y-block inside or outside the tunnel so this gives me the flexibility.
And I still have to add pass-throughs for the electronics.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Today I was able to work out the mounting locations for the InfinityBox MasterCell and front PowerCell. Some measuring, a few rivnuts and some isolation mounts will serve as the upper mounts.
For the lowers, I'm planning to make tabs that weld to the front hoop.
Attached thumbnail(s)
For someone like me who isn't experienced with wiring and electronics, this is looking a bit intimidating! And this doesn't include any of the switches or gauges!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the InfinityBox set up in all its glory. It looking like I'll run the MasterCell (the main brain) in the center position and the front PowerCell on the left. The wiring seems to like it best this way.
Attached thumbnail(s)
For those who may not be aware, this set up is a CAN bus set up. Essentially a network for the car. The MasterCell gets wired to all the switches/controls and talks to the PowerCells (one at each end of the car).
The PowerCells wire to the loads - lights, signals, etc.
It's all programmable, too.
What I really like is that what you see in the tunnel is the entire wiring "harness" that connects the front to the back! It's two power leads and two comm wires.
OK, I lied. I also have to add the wires for the heated seats...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here, I'm working on a location for the rear PowerCell. I think I can fabricate a cubby so this one can live behind the seat. It's out of the way but accessible by removing the seat.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great idea for locating those boxes under the dash. What do you think about making those boxes somehow pull down so you can access them easily? With seats installed it can be painfull working under the dash.
you have great plans , Im sure, I saw this on FB ..spyder in Portugal..
Attached image(s)
[quote name='tygaboy' date='May 30 2019, 11:49 AM' post='2718284']
[/quote]
Hi Andy! Thanks for the kind words. Having drooled over your work, that means a lot, coming from you. Here are the dimensions (in inches) of what I did so far. I'd likely narrow up the upper dimension as I think it's a bit too much for the look of the car. But that's just my opinion.
And I have seen those SpeedWorks vents. I didn't think any of them would quite work for me and with the plasma table, it's easy enough to make exactly what I want.
I'd be happy to share whatever I come up with. Just ask!
Thanks again,
Chris
[/quote]
Thanks, Chris!
I don't really like my hood vent all that much (from a styling aspect), so I'm searching around for some ideas. What I like about the SpeedWorks stuff, is they are aluminum (water jet cut, I suspect). To avoid painting, I'd like to work around the existing opening in my hood, however that pretty much relegates me to construct it with fabricated pieces welded together........Guess I better brush-up on my tig welding skills.
Keep up the good work!
Andys
Decision made on rear PowerCell location. This is far simpler than making a behind-the-seat compartment and it provides better access. Plus, there are way fewer wires to have to get through the firewall. In this case, I'll agree with the KISS approach.
Once things are all connected, I'll get all the wiring into nice, tidy looms and tied down to the chassis.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And to be sure I keep with my "changed my mind" model, I changed the chassis wiring location. Turns out I can have NO wiring in the tunnel! (Like that's some sort of incredible build result...)
Anyway, this works out great and will keep the overall layout nice and clean.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Those four power leads connect to this fuse block and then one cable from the block to the battery. That's not the battery I'll run, just something to give me a basic feel for what sort of room I'll need for everything that has to happen in the frunk.
And yes, I still have to run power to the starter. OK, so it looks like I will have one wire in the tunnel. Or does anyone make a wireless starter?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks incredible! That brainbox is something else. Thanks for posting in such detail. Been wondering about routing shift cables and stuff like that.
I started working on closing the lower fire wall, focusing on the recess (you know I love recess!) for the seat belt retractors that have been relocated here.
With this piece fabbed and mocked in place, it really became clear that the stamped end pieces I cut off the earlier version weren't going to work. From a design perspective, the scale of the stamping wasn't working with the upper fire wall panels. Plus, I would have had another piece between these and the outer retractor recess.
So. Time to start on Lower Firewall, version 2.5.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Design and plasma cut the new, wider blanks. Mock them into position, just for fun.
You can see they're about 2x as wide as those pieces they replace. Plus, with this new approach, I only need one panel on each side to close from the firewall to the retractor recess.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And after noodling a bit, I decided to try a new design approach on the stamping die.
I'm going to weld the male components on to each side to come up with the needed reversibility.
The pieces I'm stamping don't have openings so I can't bolt the die components together. In the past, I've relied on careful placement of the male components and then praying things didn't move when I was setting everything in the press.
This new approach is more work up front but makes the stamping process a near no-brainer. Worth it to get the better result, IMO.
Yes, things are still bolted together here but I'm only doing that to locate everything. I unbolt one and plug weld that hole, then remove the other and weld it.
Note that I've got the male components bolted to each side so one plug weld attaches both sides' male die.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the female component of the stamping die set in place, just so I could verify I like the way things will look.
Visually, I think it "fits" with the upper fire wall far better than the smaller pieces.
And after all this, as with much of the upper fire wall, this will only be visible with the seats removed from the car.
But hey, I'll know it's there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I finalized the stamping die and went to town on the new outer lowers.
Each of these pieces has to sit flush against an upright that supports the arched cross member so to allow that, the embossing steps outward.
It may not look like it in this pic, but trust me, they poke into the cabin area.
I think all I have left is to fab the passenger side retractor recess and I'll be ready to do the final install of this fire wall!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looks fantastic. I like the industrial nuances with
the many different angles/protrusions. It adds a ton of
visual interest as well as I’m sure torsional rigidity.
Awesome Chris! Rock on
Cheers man.
Beautiful, it's going to be such a shame to cover it up!
Thanks guys. The compliments and critiques always help keep me motivated.
Today I was able to fab the passenger side retractor recess panel.
So here, for the first time, for your viewing pleasure (or head shaking/finger pointing or snickering), are all the pieces of the firewall.
Don't miss the mock up of the two power leads in the driver side retractor recess. Keen eyed folk will note that the rubber grommet I'm using is the one that normally seals the windshield washer rubber tubes as they pass through the dash! Recycling at its finest!
Anyone know if these are still available new? I didn't see them on the 914 Rubber site.
Anyway, getting the fire wall to this point took WAY longer than I'd ever have thought. My need to see things in place before I'm sure I like them certainly didn't help. But I have to say that I'm glad I didn't settle for any of the earlier versions. I'm pretty happy with things as they stand.
Next, I need to finish fabrication of the tunnel/tunnel cover and tie it all in with the fire wall.
I expect to make major progress on that this week.
Attached thumbnail(s)
looks amazing!
Love the receptacle for the seat belts. I can't wait to see it the next time I come over.
That firewall is art.
And you're going to cover it?
Mad, mad skills.
Time to get serious! There's something I find somehow calming about a panel held in place with Clecos.
Maybe it's just me...?
Attached thumbnail(s)
A 90 degree day is a perfect time to tackle out of position marking, drilling and hand riveting.
I'm using CherryMax structural rivets, which is why you're not seeing a hollow head. The center shaft remains in place and makes these WAY stronger than the usual pop rivets.
Note that I have not riveted the areas that attach any of these panels to the chassis. It's kinda cool in that I can now/still pull the entire passenger side lower fire wall out as a unit.
Next, I'll do the same on the driver's side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
You /6 guys can keep your left-side ignition switches!
The InfinityBox system doesn't require a traditional key. It's sorta like a modern car where a system-matched fob is used to energize the system. Without it, the entire electrical system is dead - it's not possible to power anything.
So, here's what I decided to do! Honda S2000 starter button.
Wired to the MasterCell, a single push turns on the ignition, a push and hold turns on ignition and fuel pump, then fires the starter. Hold until it starts then release, and you're off! Press again and everything shuts down.
Yes, I give up the security provided by the steering lock, but I just think this is too cool.
If anyone's interested, I can post details on making this fit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That's an awesome starter switch! It looks like a great fit! Was it a lot of work?
I wasn't happy with the way the lower outer panel edge just ended and how it sorta forced the rivet line to stop. So I made a little extension that I silicone brazed on to the seatbelt recess panel.
I still have a bit of clean up to do but to me, this looks a lot more complete. Of course, this means I now have to do the same thing for the top area. It's always something...
Attached thumbnail(s)
This is the early column.
The start button unit has locating ridges that run down it's length. Clearance had to be cut for these. A small Dremmel made pretty quick work of this.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then the locating ridges needed to be trimmed to length to allow the unit to fit in the column. But a gap needed to be cut at the upper area of the ridge that the column's removable switch plate/retainer cover would use to hold the start button unit in place.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's how the retainer plate locates / locks in with the start button unit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Let the console fabrication begin! That center trim panel is just a mock up to check dimensions.
I still have some designing to do but at this point, I think I'm going to make most all of this upper console section removable. Maybe do a frame under it to support the shifter and this just becomes a cover.
Decisions, decisions.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looks really nice Chris.
One for the tool whores: Looking to create nice, evenly spaced holes? Forget measuring and get a rivet fan. It makes this almost impossible to screw up.
I scribe a line the distance in from the edge that I want (no less than 3x the rivet diameter) then set the rivet fan to the desired spacing. Lay the fan's holes right on top of the scribe line and poke a Sharpie in the hole. Come back and mark the spots with a spring loaded center punch then drill the holes.
Don't use the fan as a drill guide!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Driver side lower outer partially done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I made some pretty good progress on the console today. I've moved to a much simpler design. I think with all the stamping, a fairly plain console works better.
I fabbed the rear supports for the shifter and used them to locate the rear console panels. Then I worked up the front sections. Now it's a simple matter of playing "connect the dots".
Here, the rear panels are in final position - the shifter is bolted down to the rear mounts - and I've set set the other pieces in rough position, just to get a feel for how things fit and look. I like it. It looks much cleaner than the previous version. Easier to paint or cover with carpet, etc.
Note that all this console sheet metal will be removable so I can service the stuff that runs in this new tunnel.
And yes, those are mock up circles for the cup holders! (rootbeer, that is!)
Attached thumbnail(s)
The final version will have a "cover panel" that runs front to back that sits down in the recessed area and is riveted in place.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Thats starting to look really nice!!!
Awesome!
I want to be able to run the car without the console cover so I needed a shifter support stand of some kind. Here's what I came up with.
The console cover sit right on top of it.
Still a little bit of trimming to finish it up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nearly-major milestone: Almost ready for final install of the fire wall panels.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Door bar trim panel, version 2. I added the upper lip / bend. I think it looks more finished than just the upper edge ending in line with the main fire wall panel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Passenger side lower / upper outer added. See post #1701 for a pic of what it looked like before. This looks far more integrated, IMO.
On to the driver side to do the same.
Attached thumbnail(s)
ovreng.......license plate
Version 1 of the console top plate, complete w/cup holders.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris- That looks great!
I like it! Very clean look!
I'm on hold with the console until I source an A/C evap set up so I started back on the dash.
First, I added 1.25" to the stock gauge panel mounting bracket. This moves the panel a bit down and closer. Then I designed up V1 of a new gauge panel. I moved the two outer gauges down and in.
This all but eliminates anything being blocked from view by the steering wheel.
This shows the view I now have. Better!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Moving things down and forward required a bit of trimming to clear the column.
Attached thumbnail(s)
V1 of this design includes trying out a new shape for the gauge panel. I'll reshape the mounting bracket to fit then make a removable cover/pod that hides things and provides some sun shading for the gauges.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I think I'll wait for V7 before commenting
I bent up some 18 ga, then a little shrinking, fitting and TIGing. 1/2 way done on the frame support reshape.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's turning out pretty well. Again, it'll all be covered up...
Attached thumbnail(s)
OK @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 , you got me. I went back and did a 4th version... this time in aluminum. I also tweaked the radii around the column cut out to tighten things up a bit.
Then I wrapped up reshaping the other side of the frame.
On to the pod topper.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Exciting news of the day:
Huffaker Engineering called and they expect to have my engine on the dyno in the next couple days!
They'll provide video, if I can't make it over there to take one myself.
I replaced the sheet metal screws/clips with nutserts and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 approved fasteners.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I decided to upgrade the steering wheel to something that allowed even better gauge visibility. This is a 350mm Momo Mod 78. The "straight across the top then drop", three spoke set up is a big improvement over the previous wheel - without moving my head at all, there's virtually no part of any of the gauges I can't see. The Momo hub is on the way so pardon my manual positioning in that last pic...
And in keeping with the "RaceRod" theme, I decided to eliminate the stock, column-based turn signal and wiper switches in favor of "remote" steering wheel buttons.
The Infinity Box electrics allow for programming such that I can have momentary switches that trigger the signals and the brain will cancel them after X seconds or not at all, if the brake lights are on.
Same deal with headlights: I can have a high beam switch on the wheel that can either flash-to-pass the brights or turn them on/off.
Beyond signals and hi beam, I'm not sure if I'll have other functions accessible from the wheel, so I made a couple button plates. It's simple enough to add or remove space for more or less buttons.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Gauge cluster and wheel works together like a factory set up!
88 more pages until the first test drive!
Major milestone completed today. The engine ran again for the first time since I got it from Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 .
Presenting the dyno results for one LS3 with ITBs.
518 hp
463 lb/ft
I think that ought to about do it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJqF9IebGWY
Attached thumbnail(s)
. holy shit, your exhaust is glowing! Congratulations!
Awesome!
You're gonna like that!!
Daamn!!!
That's gonna be nice!!!
I absolutely can not wait to see that engine in your car. Of course hearing it would be the icing on the cake.
That ought to be enough to get you into low earth orbit
Yep, I'm really happy with the dyno results! Seeing it run certainly jacks up the motivation to get it on the road.
But I couldn't help myself on another redo:
Over time, I started to notice (and dislike) the way the shape of upper/outer fire wall panels just died when they ran into the dog house. (in the 2nd pic)
So I sliced the cap off the dog house and started on a piece that carries that line all the way across the fire wall.
Form over function triumphs again...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
And I need to select the needed switches so I ordered a few different kinds to determine what I like. Initial plan is looking like this pic: stealth black for the turn signals with something different for the high beam.
The final switches will likely be sourced from the same manufacturer but I do think I'll mix up the look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
switch faces plastic or aluminum. Either way it could be cnc milled or laser etched. If AL, I would Cerakote them then laser etch the symbols into them for what they are. You can do some very neat stuff with CeraKote and lasers.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 Stephen - The switches are AL but I think I'm going to leave them "blank", at least for now.
And the Momo hub came in so here's the wheel all set to go. It's working out just as I'd hoped.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Today I got the reshaped dog house upper panel welded in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
As always, recent mods looking great Chris!
With all that horse power and as light as this car will be, you might have to load the trunk with lead weights to hook it up.
Time to get all the fire wall panels prep'd for install.
I want all the rivets to align vertically. The fun part is that the rivet line on the main panels is level but the line in the upper panel is slightly curved.
This means I can't just set the rivet fan to the same distance since the rivet line on the curve is longer.
So, I used the laser level, positioned it appropriately for each rivet and marked directly, vertically above each main panel rivet.
It's always a bit more complicated than you think it'll be...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I reshaped the corner radius on the new dog house upper panel then marked and drilled the doghouse for rivets.
My wife was quite funny when she saw all this in process. Her comment:
"Well, you sure know the drill..."
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 , I hope you got that Cleco stock!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have a lot of little things to finish. Necessary but not too exciting.
Today, it was fabbing the little extension panels for the driver side lower fire wall so that panel extends all the way to the long, above and below the seat belt retractor recess.
I also took the opportunity to braze in the e-brake guide tubes. It's all coming along.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With the engine all set to go, it's time to run all the systems. Here's the engine side view of the removable bulkhead panel. Fuel supply and return on the right, clutch and brake on the left, throttle cable and battery supply.
The space that's still available is for a bulkhead electrical connector that will support the wiring for oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, tach and the rear Infinity Box Power Cell.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I love the ordered uniformity of all the Clecos but isn't a good part of their usefulness that you don't have to use them on every hole in a string, especially when they are that close together. Though if you own stock, or just a ton of them I get it.
Today I designed, fabbed and installed the Infinity Box power distribution block mount.
Those four red wires each terminate on the upper part of each of the blocks, then the battery power mounts to one location on the lower section of one of the blocks. They are all tied together with a bus bar.
I used rubber isolation mounts that also provide clearance for the rivnuts.
Yet another example of a part that'll never be seen once things are assembled.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I had a feeling I might use some of the real estate on the reservoir line bulkhead plate and I was right! The main power to the starter routes nicely through it.
It's a big change moving from the fab stuff to installation. It's forcing me to finalize a number of things - something I've not had to do til now. But I'm happy with how things are coming together, at least so far!
Attached thumbnail(s)
might as well start thinking about it now, unless you already have one,,,l know you like choices so...
Attached image(s)
Attached image(s)
prob. long gone..but
Attached image(s)
This car will draw enough valid admiration that a vanity plate would only cheapen it.
You know, those plate suggestions really are quite accurate! I brought them on myself, after all.
And to continue with my "redo it - again!" trajectory, I rethought the location of the power block and moved it out of the frunk to what will be behind a foot rest.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 , you win again. This is V6 of this panel!
Anyway, the move de-clutters the frunk, shortens the wiring runs (which no longer run through multiple body panels) and means I can service essentially all the key electronics from inside the car.
Sharp eyes will notice this panel holds five power blocks. There's a fifth that supports an electrically (electronically?) controlled battery disconnect. Again, mounting it here, right near the other blocks simplifies the wiring. You'll see it as I get that gizmo mounted.
Attached thumbnail(s)
way better
Major milestone: The very first wires are in! I'm new to all this wiring stuff so this should be interesting and "fun". A learning experience, at the very least.
That cylinder thing under the power blocks, works in conjunction with the InfinityBox brain to constantly monitors battery voltage - when the ignition is off. If the system voltage gets too low, this setup actively "disconnects" the battery, preserving the remaining voltage.
There's also a manual button that I can use to "disconnect" the battery. Push it again and it "reconnects" the battery.
I'll hide that somewhere and claim it's part of the security system!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I needed to narrow the driver-side front area of the console cover to provide necessary foot room - so I started on that today.
Again, it would have been far simpler if all of the planes of this cover were 90 degrees to one another, but no, I opted for a 78 degree inward tip of the vertical wall.
It certainly looks better but it makes it way more work to cut and fit the needed angles.
Here, I've got one transition all but metal finished and the other silicon bronze TIG'd.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then ClecoBoy made an appearance and got the front top cover ready for rivets.
I also primed things as handling the raw metal was starting to create rust spots.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looks great!!!
ClecoBoy should be a Emoji
You are a great fabricator, but I guess you know that.
Bob B
Chris , I am humbled by that compliment coming from you. Thank you for that.
You always go the extra mile. It always shows through.
Never stop being who you are.
PS Your build always makes my brain hurt! In a good way!
I think I need to do another few projects to get up to your standard of finish Chris
But I hear what you're saying and thanks for that. There's no better feeling than getting stuck in and accomplishing something you've never done before.
Keep up the great build, it's inspiring!
Whoa - that is strong company. I need to buy a LOT of Clecos before I can get anywhere close to any of your level.
Nice list
In the bend section, I would add simple bending brake above the vice and add vice grips/pliers below it. I'd kill for enough space for a finger brake but you can do a surprising amount of fab work with a simple, cheap brake, a vice, and some pliers.
Down to the shrink/stretch column, don't forget the shot bag along with the stump.
Yesterday and today was FINALLY coming up with a design then fabbing the final part of the console cover.
Simple as that sounds, I struggled for weeks to come up with something that I thought looked cohesive and allowed the entire cover to be removed. I want it removable as this greatly simplifies building and then servicing anything that runs in the tunnel.
But in order to remove the cover, it has to slide forward (to clear the rear firewall lower dog house) before it can be lifted out.
I didn't bother posting the various mock-ups of the "would this work?" ideas I've tried out. In the end, I made this removable "end cap" set up. OK, so it's really the "front cap"...
Installed, it looks like a continuation of the cover but once removed, the rest of the cover has all sorts of room to move forward for removal!
It was really fiddly to make as I had to patch together three pieces to get the shape needed for that passenger side element. It slopes uphill and twists at the same time.
I have a couple of the fastener locations Cleco'd and need to work up a couple/few more but nailing this down is a major item ticked off the "To Do" list.
As always, it starts with, as @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 calls it, CAD (Cardboard Aided Design) and rough cut pieces.
Oh, and it's SOOOO fun working in the confines of the foot well for what took ~12 hours.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Throttle cable linkage bracket design and fab in progress.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I figured it was about time to post some actual 914 components!
Today was fitting the Boxster calipers (using Rich Johnson's adapters) and 911 e-brake components.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 did his full Monty upgrades to the trailing arms. Such nice stuff!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great work on that center console! Looks factory!
Those 914 bits are just gorgeous!
Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 . I can't wait to see it in paint!
But lots to do before that happens. Today was finalizing the throttle linkage. It was another fiddly, long-time-to-fab set of pieces. It has to have appropriate travel while keeping everything under the tunnel cover and front cap, protecting the cable and all other moving parts throughout their travel and be adjustable.
It needs to be adjustable because I have no idea what the throttle pedal response of the ITBs will be like and I may need to open them faster or slower, relative to throttle pedal travel. With this set up, I can adjust things in a bunch of ways. I can:
- move the linkage pick up point up / down the throttle pedal
- lengthen the heim linkage between the pedal and the cable pull plate
- change the orientation between the aluminum "intermediate plate" and the black, lower pivot piece
- move the cable pick up location on the intermediate plate
- and worst case, remake the intermediate plate once I have things figured out
But this should get me started.
Attached thumbnail(s)
you might as well run 2 cables....
And the 8" / 9" x 16" Ronals are here.
You don't see them all the time and I think they'll nicely compliment the look of this build.
Big thanks to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 for spotting these!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Those are nice! Will they get the Midas touch or are you keeping them that color?
Nice wheels... always wanted a set.
I have these but they are, 15inch, also I saw these today... 3 bucks versus 1 buck, and 3 times longer to use..
Attached image(s)
Well that makes a bit of a difference, eh? A bit of envisioning it with paint but I'm really happy with how these are going to look on the car.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And credit where credit is due: @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 has Ronals on his car and I loved the look.
A major attraction is that these do a really nice job of filling out the flares with no spacers! So it's standard length studs, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Today was working on the radiator install. And given the earlier questions about tools, I thought this might be interesting to some:
This is an inexpensive copy of a Beverly shear.
The real deal items are around $600. Copies can be had for ~ $160 at Harbor Freight.
Remember, you get what you pay for and a genuine Beverly is a joy. These aren't bad, though.
Anyway, it makes quick, clean (and quiet!) work of cutting sheet metal. The throatless design lets you turn the piece and cut essentially any shape. Plus, it's a shear so no kerf to factor in, if that's of concern.
In all, a very handy and cost effective tool.
Here, I'm just trimming a support piece that sits under the radiator frame.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Main frame fabricated, support brackets installed and floor shroud rough fit.
I still have to add some supports to the upper, outer corners that tie forward to the chassis. Then it's add the side and top shrouding and cut the front panel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Radiator frame upper supports nearly complete.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This build is a benchmark build.
and a single cleco in the picture.... Nice mount
There are so many things to do and I'm all over the place, bouncing from one "to do" item to the next. I'm currently in process on probably 5-7 sub-projects.
What can I say? I'm easily distracted. Doing this seems to work for me in that it keeps things moving while simultaneously creating time for me to (re)consider the design/execution I've partially completed.
Today, it was working up a test mount for the A/C unit. After hours of trying to work out some super duper cool, stealth location, I decided I was overthinking it and opted to mount it where it'll likely work the best without me having to try and invent a completely new housing and fan set up. Of course I reserve the right to do that in the future.
Again, this is a test mount that can be slid around on the front hoop to let me work out where the A/C unit will end up. I'm aware it isn't well engineered. Once I finalize the location, I'll probably add tabs and mounting points that eliminate this whole contraption. And if I do keep it, at the very least, I'll add a mount at the rear that ties to the chassis.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hows the footroom there?
Not a bad spot assuming you have ample foot room. Even would work as a decent foot rest.
Love the mount
With the radiator support all done, I started on the shrouding.
First, it was working up a retaining plate. The rear face of the frame and the underside of this plate will get some rubber padding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then, it was the top shroud. Hmmm, looks like I'd have to trim the shroud to clear around the retainer plate. That likely won't do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Do-over #2!
I think I like this more. A target for design / engineering is to have a single part that performs more than one function. So here's my top shroud/retainer!
I'll back this up with carbon fiber to keep the overall design theme I have in the interior.
Attached thumbnail(s)
version three is where you press the piece and make look really cool. Flat panel is so ________________
For months, I've been staring at the hole where the fuel tank sits so today I opted to make up the first of the lines.
Yet another example of cool new components hanging out with this ratty looking chassis and other older items.
I can't hardly wait to see what all this will look like once things are powder coated, anodized and painted.
Attached thumbnail(s)
are you doing drivers side fill..??
I like the new top shroud but agree it needs some bead roller detail to make it fit the theme.
Dig the radiator support, now I want to redo mine!
Hard fuel lines competed at the front bulkhead, so 1/2 way done! Now on to making them connect to the rear bulkhead.
I'll also fab a couple of supports for these.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Damnit,,its been a rough week.....
I like the drivers side fill, also notice the nice flange delete you did on section of the tank. Great work, all your efforts are really paying off, and you have made huge leaps in skill level from when you started this project.
Would you please get to the Tangerine Racing Suspension Console raise, right now your making me think of adding items to my project instead of solving my fear of hacking the rear suspension pickup points out of the car.
Come on help a guy out.
After that if you don't mind working on the compound curve section to graph in the 944 Sunroof section that help would be greatly appreciated. Actually if you make those pieces I will gladly take the version 2 off your hands Chris . Version two of your stuff is like version 15 of mine. I would gladly
onto my 944 roof panel and the top of my EG car.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 thanks for helping me out
Stamped. And yes, I changed the design.
The retainer tab cut outs are a flipped/scaled down replica of the front of the removable doghouse cover design.
I also tightened up the clearances around the hood latch.
Now all the panels are matchy match!
Y'all happy now @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 ?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Me likey.
square cut around trunk latch....just sayin...
[quote name='Andyrew' date='Aug 22 2019, 04:52 PM' post='2740664']
[quote name='sixnotfour' post='2740650' date='Aug 22 2019, 05:03 PM']
square cut around trunk latch....just sayin...
[/quote]
[/quote
Ouch! Tough crowd. This build never disappoints. You go Chris
Here are the main panel stamping dies:
First the female.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The male with the area dies aligned but not bolted on and then with the female set on top.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the "edge" stamp I made this morning. The female (the lower piece) goes under the panel and aligns with the front edges. The male gets butted up to and aligned with the edges of the female die and the main panel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Clamp things together and slide it into the press...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Done.
I'm happy with how it turned out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Your shroud looks kind of angry...why don't you drop CF insets into those reliefs?
T
Double!
Great job Chris, that finished edge really finishes the piece off.
Great progress. Form follows function. I would consider CF inserts to keep the air flow as much through the radiator core as possible then some escaping over the top.
No rush for me either, that is one to two car projects down the list. But I would like a well documented versions. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241
Wow Jeff is back he documented his pickup raise very well, but just want more coverage. And the same goes for @Rootworks version documented well but like to have multiple sources. People tend to document things a bit differently, do things slightly different.
I have an idea in my head how to do both of them. 944 graph build the sub structures, then make it so the rear edge gets crimped over the sub structure, will have to TIG'd to the outer skin to and weld the edge to the sub structure which forms the rain gutter. Rain gutter will be similar to the real 916. Lots of work but in my sick mind, it will be great amounts of fun. For something I will most likely never use. Except to pop it open at the car show. A/C tends to keep me from windows down driving. That car will have A/C
For the roof, see if they have an early 944 or even a 924. Mechanical roof pieces are what you want. Easy to convert a power to manual, but if you get one with all the parts even better. Theres a guy about 45 minutes north of me that only works on 944s and parts some of them out. Got the roof, and a perfect sunroof panel for an uncle ben.
I do like the CF idea for the roof panel, I will enjoy either thing you build no pressure from me.
Today I completed the tunnel's system lines: fuel, brake and clutch. I elevated the fuel lines with a couple little bracket stands - the front one doubles as the brake/clutch line bulkhead for the transition to soft lines that run to the master cylinders.
On top of the brackets, I'm attaching the lines with what I think are some neat little retainer clips. They're from a company called NotcHead. I also used them to secure the battery cable. The lines snap in and out. Pretty tidy, IMO.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I really like the line setup, and the Marzall markers are the best I have found, I buy them by the case.
clear plexi on tunnel.....
I had the fuel tank all set to go but after some thought, and given the fact that it had a couple rust spots I had to patch, I decided to start over.
I got a new tank and started in on the driver side filler. With the first version, I made a small eyebrow to close the small gap between the front edge of the filler plate and the tank. Here's that version.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I figured I could do a little better so...
Take one brand new tank (repro, not NOS so relax), fab the filler plate, mark for fit and cut a big hole in the brand new tank!
But this time, around the front of the curve, leave some extra material on the tank.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And instead of making an eyebrow, I opted to try a little hammer and dolly work to stretch and reshape the tank opening so it becomes the eyebrow. You can see where the tank's eyebrow dips - I should have left a little bit more material in that area but this turned out pretty well.
Next, I need to weld fasteners to the underside of the plate, then weld the plate to the tank.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks great, not sure why you ever show us version one. It does remind people that fabrication does take time, you make mistakes, and well you learn from them. Errors are just opportunities to learn.
I spent yesterday and today finishing the filler plate and pump plate install. Everything went well with both pieces. I also updated the design of the pump plate in such a way that I retained the entire tank seam. That "seems" a better way to go.
It did necessitate a re-routing of the lines.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And in keeping with the "he's making it up as he goes along" method, I realized I hadn't fully accounted for where the fuel filter would mount. I played with somewhere in the engine bay but ended up going with right on top of the fuel tank.
I'll make a suitable platform to secure the filter but this is certainly a more convenient location for servicing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like it better than the factory location as it gets the opening further out allowing for more clearance to get to the opening. And since it is a fuel cell cap, the opening should be much larger allowing for increased entry angle giving even more clearance if needed.
I really like it so much so I may borrow the idea for my build. Holly, Earl both use the cap, they are laser etched with the logo etc. My thought is to strip it, and anodize it, and then laser edge a modified crest into it to represent the true nature of the car.
Chris I love the details and the fact your willing to share them, that is really what makes me follow this thread so much.
Kinda like I follow some insane builds where some people remove a microgram off a part by machining a millimeter or replicating it in Ti.
Easy access fuel filter is big with me. I seem to clog them up often. Especially a 100micron. Good spot there!!
Chris, what gasket material did you use?
Looks great. Nice and tidy. Nice kit, too.
And since I was in the frunk, I figured I ought to get to making room for the coolant lines. I've decided not to try anything fancy with line routing and will go with the standard "Gates hoses tucked into the recesses in the floor".
But I couldn't just have the lines poking through the sheet metal so quickly made up a hose support plate. It'll rivet in place.
And I have all the aluminum tubing and 90s to fab up hard lines from these hose locations to the radiator. It should look pretty nice in here, once things are finished
Attached thumbnail(s)
I want to believe you have something more clever in mind other than cutting holes in the wheel wells,,,,
As I started fitting the hose plate, I noticed that the area where it sits isn't completely flat. There's a slight indented curve on the lower section where the plate needs to go.
I certainly don't want a gap there...
English wheel to the rescue! I figured I might be able to wheel a raised area into just the lower, center portion of the panel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here it is nearly done. You can see it's flat across the top but has been stretched along the lower edge and inward, up between the holes. The stretching causes the metal to grow in area and it has to go somewhere so it bulges up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And it wouldn't be a Tygaboy post without some Clecos!
You can see those two on the inner lower area point inward, indicating just how much curve that really is there.
This was a fun little effort and it turned out really well.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Planning and mock-up for radiator hard lines. The hoses are just to help size the lengths of the straight sections. The plan at this point is that both will be one piece from the hose connection at the radiator and through the bulkhead panel. It looks like I can fab a bracket to support things so the connection to the Gates hose happens just behind the steering rack.
This design hides the transition from hard line to soft while enabling me to keep the lines as close to the frunk wall as I can. This to create as much room as possible for the battery, as well as air flow.
Comments on this approach from other experienced water-cooled folks appreciated. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=194 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16669 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=626 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7414 and others I'm sure I'm forgetting.
Attached thumbnail(s)
These pictures are of a Subaru conversion that was for sale in the SF area early this year. The work on the bottom to protect the soft lines is a good idea. I personally used the heater tubes and ran my Gates lines there. You just had to put a hard 90-degree fitting and hose clamps to make the turn as the lines are coming back up from the tube back into the cabin. From rear forward. My old V8 made a lot of heat in the cabin but I was never sure if the heat was coming in from the front of the car or from the water lines.
One of our brothers in So Cal bought this car. I liked the idea of how he did this.
Sharing this in case you never saw it. Nice car
Bob B
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7414 - Thanks for the input, Bob. I have that pic of that car's set up.
Those lines look to be up inside the tunnel. Nice protection for sure and I was contemplating that earlier on. I decided against it for the "heat inside the car" reason. Plus, the "Gates lines under the car" has been proven to work.
I'm no fluid dynamics expert but it sounds like a couple hard 90 degree bends aren't really an issue?
Fabricating and fitting the side shrouding took quite a while with what felt like 100 reps of "in for the test fit, out to tweak an edge, back in to test fit..." But I got the result I was after.
I'm thinking I'll powder coat the radiator support then rivet these panels to it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fab'd and fit the other side. On to drilling for rivets...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hard line looks messy. Lower one is fine, but top one with that large gap is messy. I think this looks better.
Solid hard line with soft connection by the rack is a great idea.
Gonna make it out of aluminum pipe or stainless?
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 - I have a Mezier remote, electric water pump. It mounts on the driver side of the engine cross bar.
The hard lines are aluminum. Here's the initial routing with some of the welding complete.
Again, the lower hose is just mocked in place with the connector hose just holding the two tubes in place.
To get the lines to tuck close to the fire wall and wheel well, I had to slice the hose connections off the radiator and clock them to point straight back. A little more work but it maximizes the amount of space I have for the battery. Plus, I like the way it looks.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow, I love the way those hard lines are looking. I've never like the rubber lines just dangling out the way it's typically done. Very clean look for sure.
Chris that looks great!
You've really got a lot of things done recently!
I doubt you'll have any problems with the alum hardlines for longevity. I used stainless on mine only because I don't have a tig...
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9964 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1659 - It's a 55 GPM pump, same one as pictured. As to switching the fans, I can use the ECU or the Infinity Box system. The 2nd pic of one of the Infinity Box options.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
With all the time I've been spending in the frunk, the GT headlight kit started calling out to me so I got after it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Progress on the hard lines. I got the grommets for the bulkhead plate but I'm not sure about the p-clamp, certainly not the white insulation. That's what I got when I ordered something that takes up to 300 degrees. I may just wrap the line under the clamp with black silicone tape. We'll see.
But I like how the lines are turning out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Amazing build. Keep going. Soon you'll be to 100 pages!
What is the longest build thread on here? You've got to be in serious contention.
Radiator lines fab'd and fit. A couple joints to final weld and this gets checked off the to-do list.
I abandoned the "p-clamp bolted to the chassis". The latest is using the p-clamps but bolting each one to opposite sides of a .5" rubber isolation mount. This does an OK job but I think I can come up with something that works a bit better.
And this effort was my first foray into TIG welding aluminum. I found it far easier to get a nice result than welding steel. I don't know why I thought AL would be more difficult. That said, contamination of any sort and it all goes to hell instantly. Far more sensitive than steel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
TIG welding aluminum is a holy grail skill!
I am still trying to learn to TIG steel.
Did you run a purge line inside the pipes?
John
OK, good to know.
I got a lot better when someone told me to get 2x magnifying lens for my welding helmet.
Much easier to see the little glowing worm and not touch it to the metal.
John
One for the tool whores: I treated myself to a "real" spot welder. Having checked out the Harbor Freight version, I opted for this one. Really nice.
If anyone local to me needs/wants to borrow this, please don't hesitate to let me know. It's pretty incredible.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I used the magic spot welder to attach a little bracket to which the fuel filter mounts.
The lower part of the fuel filter mount rests on a small rubber pad on top of the fuel tank.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Telwin digital 230, nice unit. Have not seen them for sale in the US, I know what they cost, but who was the US supplier?
They make a great spot welder, enjoy it. Been looking for a used one for a long time.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 Stephen, I got mine here, at USA Weld:
https://www.usaweld.com/Quick-Spot-II-p/60501.htm
I did add the zipadeedooda angled arms. It comes with a set that point the electrodes directly at each other.
Now that's a killer tool!!!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 thanks for the link I think - 1/2 the price I have seen it for on the other side of the end.
I have a tool itch now.
Note to self: Next time, remember to check that the cup holder clears the fuel lines before you get all excited that you got them done...
Yep, had to make new ones with a few fancy bends. We now have clearance, Clarence.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I wanted to do away with the hood springs so I needed to come up with a prop rod set up. In looking at what I've seen others do, I didn't like what seemed to be just a rod with a rubber nub on the end. Seems to me that if you were outside and a gust lifted the hood, the rod would fall, the hood would drop, etc.
So I came up with what I think is a neat solution:
I used a pit pin and welded an appropriately deep boss to the fire wall and one to the under hood bracing.
A quick press on the button and the pin pulls out. Swing the rod up and use the same pin to attach the prop rod to the hood.
Windy day at Cars and Coffee? Not a problem for me!
And that's a copper tube over 1/4" aluminum hex. It supports the stock hood with no flex. If I get a composite hood, I can remove the copper and just run the aluminum.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Ooh that's clever! The copper rod is going to get confused with wood pretty often. That's a nice looking piece!!
I decided to install the inner rockers. Mine had been cut up a bit so I figured now was as good a time as any.
Anyway, it gave me a chance to use the spot welder.
Holy Moley, is this WAAAAY better than drilling and plug welding! No spatter, no temptation to grind, etc. Almost looks factory.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 , @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 - You NEED one of these!
If anyone local to me is planning any repairs that could use this, do yourself a favor and borrow this thing! PM me if you're in need...
Attached thumbnail(s)
on the list
Tygaboy,
I've never built a V8 powered 914 but I've ridden in one and have a question for you. It always seems that managing the heat from the radiator is a problem that can make the inside of the car a really uncomfortable place, even with some sealing done around the stock openings from the frunk into the cockpit.
What about some sort of insulated panel in between the top of the radiator shrouding and the mid-trunk firewall ahead of the tank to close off the incoming air, now heated by the radiator, and force it out of the openings in the inner fenders? It seems to me that such a panel and some insulation in the frunk area to help contain the heat might help to keep the cockpit from getting so hot. Without such a panel, you only have the seal at the top of the mid-trunk firewall and the underside of the hood to keep all of that heat from coming right up against the thin sheetmetal under the dash.
Something like this.....(I borrowed this pic from FL 000 since his is similar in layout to yours...FL 000, hope you don't mind, certainly no criticism intended![i])
Just a thought......
In reality the better way would be post radiator duct work, to make sure the heat goes where you want it to.
Nothing like new metal. This after many years of no sill plates. Major milestone!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I was about to send a few pieces out to powder coat but, thankfully, remembered I needed to add brackets to the radiator support to attach the A/C condenser.
A few minutes designing and cutting and things are ready to weld.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Did you say cup holders?
I sure do get to play with some fun stuff, but boy, does it slow down progress on the 914.
This is an '84 Reynard Formula Ford that was converted to DSR and then to Formula 1000. At this point, it's woefully less than competitive in any of these classes. I'll be helping convert it into something else... More on that as progress is made.
I am making solid headway on the 914. It's back on the rotisserie to ease completion of the rest of the chassis welding, flares, etc.
And @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 , it looks like I'll be moving ahead with installing the Tangerine rear pick up kit. I'll post details as that happens.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Ok, Chris, if you do everything right, you will not be able to reach the cups from your seat(s). You’ll be pinned back!
thats the reward...like a cig after.......
Dude! You rolled your car!
I spent some time today and finished up the radiator/condenser mount. Now to work out all the A/C hose routing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Tangerine Racing's raised rear pick up point kit install.
The kit raises the trailing arm pick up points 2". There's also a kit that raises things 3" but I opted for 2".
The reason for all this is to retain proper trailing arm geometry when the car is lowered. In combination with the raised upper shock mounts I already installed, I keep full shock travel and prevent situations where too much toe happens in the upper portion of the suspension travel.
Anyway, here goes...
And right away, there's no turning back!
The things I do for you @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388
Attached thumbnail(s)
I love how instructions can make things seem so simple. In this case, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 offers:
"Step 2: Completely remove the stock inner and outer suspension consoles from the chassis."
OK, let's go! I mean, how hard can that be? Well, let me tell you - HARD. OK, so maybe not "hard", but for sure "time consuming"!
There is a LOT of material in the lower area, particularly where it ties into that support that connects the inner and outer mounts. And it's not easy to get Sawzall blades and cut off wheels in there.
All kidding aside, and to be clear, all of Chris' stuff is awesome, including his instructions!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Oh, the carnage!
And fear not, the car is on the rotisserie. Those jack stands and "spacers" are only to help stop it rocking when I'm cutting.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I would be scared as hell cutting into my car like that - but I have total confidence in your work! Your car is coming along great.
The Tangerine kit comes with these two templates - an inner and an outer. You can see that once the suspension points are removed, it exposes those holes in the longs. These templates line up with the holes and indicate where you need to chop into the longs to create the needed clearance for the new pick up point component.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here are the templates in place. You can see that I've Sharpied part of the cut line on the inner.
Note that the picture makes it look like the template holes aren't aligned. It's a camera thing, they do align.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Oy, that looks messy. The primed metal underneath looks almost brand new.
Damn Chris! It's going to to be sweet!!
I love you Chris, but not that much! I would be up for the challenge, but I am seriously wrecked from these fires again. We had a very close call on Thursday. About .25 mile from mile house and no time to to really pack. Just watched 3 tankers and 1 helicopter attack.
So you've done the easy part.
Cutting off the consoles is still reversible and shouldn't be too scary, but when you cut a big hunk out of the frame...
Oh, and putting it together correctly will be the hard part. Lots of opportunities to second guess yourself there.
Wow! Hope you have one of these to rest those big balls.
Spooky left over helloween comment,,but I have the kit also ,,got from a guy who couldn't commit...
Wow Chris. I can not wait until the next time I am at your place to check that all out.
I started on the passenger side since that inner ear was rusty. But before I slice off the driver's side, I figured I'd measure all the bolt hole locations so I can duplicate these distances when the Tangerine stuff goes on.
And here's another one for the tool whores. This is a really nice tram gauge. It has a built in tape measure and measurement marked depth probes. This allows for precise measurement of distance between points when the surfaces are on different planes - like they are in the case of the front and rear suspension mounts.
I can get the distances AND the depths of the stock locations, then add the 2" to the rear Z values and use these numbers as yet another check for accurate install location.
You can see why Mr. Foley poked me about "opportunities for second guessing...".
If anyone is interested in using the tram gauge, PM me. It packs up nicely and should be easy to safely ship. Overstating the obvious, it won't be available until I've completed this phase of work.
Attached thumbnail(s)
On to the driver's side - and slice off the inner ear as a first step.
And here I thought I was the only one who left "stragglers" when I MIG. Apparently, so did Dieter! At least when he built this car.
Attached thumbnail(s)
If you ever wondered if you should check all the drain holes on your car to be sure they aren't all plugged up, the answer is "Yes".
Here's what happens when you don't.
And we wonder why they rust from the inside out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
WHAT WAS THAT? YOU'LL HAVE TO SPEAK UP! I HAVE NO EARS!
I still have to remove all that flange material on the driver side. Once that's done, it's time to level the car and start the Tangerine kit fitment.
Attached thumbnail(s)
If you read Jeff Hail's thread and the part where he installs this same Tangerine pick up kit, you'll see he mentions what a deal, cost-wise, it would be to have @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 do this. (It's posted on the Tangerine site.)
I've only done the removal of the stock pick up points and based on how much time and the amount of consumables it took to get to this point, I couldn't agree more! To get both sides fully out, flanges and all, it was probably over 12 hours. I wouldn't say I'm the fastest with a Sawzall but you have to be careful and there are a ton of niggly areas with giant weld beads.
This is, without a doubt, the most labor-intensive thing I've done on this build.
OK, show of hands. Who here hates drilling out spot welds?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Driver's side all done! On to fitting the new parts.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Simply amazing.
The way your car rides and handles will make it all worth it.
Nothing like bottoming out your shocks during a high speed corner or going over a curb.
Awesome work as always.
This will be the "Singer" equivalent of a 914 when it is done.
John
Chris,
You up for a visit Saturday? I'd love to see your progress and maybe work on a project of my own? I know @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11426 had something he wanted to make as well.
I have something that could use your laser table expertise as well, it’s just that that damned mountain between us has snow on it...
OK, here we go: Car is leveled, resting on stands and still attached to the rotisserie.
It's nice to know that I have two reference surfaces that measure out exactly the same. And it's a bonus that one is from the factory! I will say I did my best to get my lower firewall cross-member welded in at level. Looks like I did!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Rod Stewart sang that "the first cut is the deepest..." I would suggest that the 2nd and 3rd cuts were pretty f-ing deep, too!
And actually, not deep enough. You can see there's a piece of the inner structure that my cut-off wheel couldn't reach. I was desperate to get the new pick up placed in there, just to see it, so I just bent it out of the way. Have no fear, I'll get in there and remove it before things get buttoned up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So far, this part is moving along far more quickly than removing the stock pick ups.
And as Jeff Hail pointed out in his resent post here, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 hit it out of the park with this set up. The parts fit so nicely that it almost assembles itself! Let me explain.
The kit includes all the needed structural plating that gets welded in and helps support this main piece. In looking at them and comparing them to the pics in the instructions, I couldn't quite understand how things were supposed to fit.
I was about to give Chris a call for some help.
But once I got the main part set in place, it was instantly clear how things should fit and the plates essentially show you exactly what material needs to be removed to get everything just as it needs to be.
It's all really, really well thought out and manufactured.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Major milestone: 100 pages in the build log and the car isn't even a roller yet.
If this isn't the perfect example of "don't quit your day job", I don't know what is.
I was a just gonna type, wow 100 pages of the art of metal. Looks great Chris.
Cool set up from C. Foley. Looking forward to how all this is placed.
Passenger's side cuts made and both sides now mocked in. The kit includes a fixture that ties both sides together and is used to help set width and level.
Beyond raising the pick up points, the kit allows for the pick ups to be moved outboard, generating a wider track. Doing so also creates additional inboard clearance to help things like engine access for you /6 conversion folks.
I plan to use this capability to see if I can optimize how the wheels fill up the flares. If you look back in the thread, you can see they look pretty good on the stock set up but I think I can push them out a bit more. We'll see.
Anyway, I couldn't resist a quick check of level with the components just set in place. Remember, this is just resting them on the cut outs that were made using the kit templates.
Gotta say, pretty encouraging!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Cutting into the longs means a lot of the kerf material ends up inside them. I run an extendable magnet back and forth, side to side at various lengths, getting up as far forward as I can.
I pulled probably 10 blobs like this from each side.
I'll see if I can get a skinny shop vac hose in there, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I happily confess, I did call Mr. Foley, just to verify my thinking on a couple items. One was that I needed to remove more material from the longs.
As I mentioned, the support plates pretty much dictate what needs to go, but I figured it couldn't hurt to talk with the expert!
Here, you can see that the cut lines do need to go all the way straight back. So as you can see, I went ahead and did that.
It's hard to tell in the pic, but I still have a bit to remove on the lower, outside corner of the long in order to gain the clearance needed for one of the plates.
Getting there...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Stick an air nozzle in the front section of the longs and blow it towards the aft end of the longs. Then vacuum /magnet it. Blow/suck, repeat. Yes a good joke, but also effective. I used to restore B-25 aircraft. We'd walnut shell blast the airframes. That was the easy part. Clean up could take days.
I mentioned the fixturing jig. Here it is with the new pick ups bolted in place. What you can't see in these pics is that the fixture is actually two pieces with a sleeve in the middle so you can widen things, as I described above.
The instructions call for things to be bolted up and then slid into the slots cut in the longs.
Well, OK then, let's get this party started.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Believe it or not, it basically slid right in. I had to bonk one side with my hand to get it past a tight spot at the front of the slot but that was it and in it went.
Now, moment of truth. How close are things to where they're supposed to be?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Are you f-ing kidding me? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 has this dialed! I guess I get a couple points for being a good little instruction follower, and yes, I have to get the fore/aft placement set but holy moley!
Man, I just love it when a plan comes together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
But then I thought, "I wonder if those end plates are the best location to use for measuring...".
OK, what about the main pickup bar? YES!
I'll probably find 12 other locations to measure from but so far, things couldn't be going better.
Attached thumbnail(s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_H8bK8o3UM?t=1474
Wooohoo!!!!
WooHoo, indeed! Thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 .
But now the real fun begins: fore/aft to get it matchy-match to what it was.
I see now that installing the flares prior to getting the pick up mod done is less than optimal. It means I REALLY have to get the wheel position right since I can no longer rely on cheating the flares one way or the other. Ah well, lesson learned for you others considering this.
Sort of like the ol' "Pants first, then shoes."
Thankfully, I remembered to get some triangulated measurements that I can use to replicate the locations of the pick ups.
PF = Passenger Front, DR = Driver Rear. The little drawing is to be sure I know which hole is which.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This is PF1 to DR1. Close, but I'll need to move things forward to get this to 266 cm.
The other good news is it's exactly the same from DF1 to PR1. Consistent side to side triangulation means things remain square.
All things considered with '70s build technology and the variances we know are built into these cars, this isn't bad at all. I'll take it!
This was a good day at the Red Barn.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I fixtured the new mounts in position, got the measurements set and tacked them in.
But in order to get the trailing arms in, this overhang has to be removed. I kept wondering why the arm wouldn't go in...
What I had yet to cut:
Attached thumbnail(s)
What it looks like after trimming. Essentially, just cut in plane with the rear face of the mount.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Arm fitting.
Lesson learned: if you're doing this mod, wait until it's complete BEFORE doing your flares.
I'm chasing getting the wheel centered in the flare...
Another fun fact: The mounts get welded to the outside of the longs, where they taper in towards the back of the car. So as the mounts are moved fore and aft, the track width changes.
The good news is a rough measurement shows I have 2 degrees negative camber with no shims.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With my wheels (16x9 w/245s), the pic shows where I am at this point. The tire does clear, it's just REALLY close.
Plus, I need the wheels to move forward about .4 inch. I think I can make it work by trimming away about 1/2 the return on inside edge of the flare.
If not, I'll need to remove material from the inside of the pick up mount, where it meets the long. Or do both.
Either way, I'll make it work. Just means more time spent.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Trim the lip.
I think I would try to roll that part of the lip so you keep the material and strength.
I would lean toward the as built dimensions instead of the factory specs.
Some positive validation: The driver side has essentially identical fore/aft position in the flare as well as tire-to-flare clearance.
As Huey sang, "It's hip to be square."
Attached thumbnail(s)
What was I thinking? Of COURSE it was going to take me multiple attempts before I got it right! Why would this be different from any other part of this build?
After the first couple tries, I'd built a fair bit of confidence in terms of how this all goes together, what and where the changes happen when the parts are moved around, etc.
Having established that the firewall lower cross member and tops of the engine mount plates always measured level to each other, I could use them as reference and simply work on the installation no matter what position the car was in on the rotisserie.
I just had to get a measure of either of those and use it as the target # when "leveling" the tangerine components and fixture in the chassis.
So after some careful measuring, a bit of math and remembering that 1/2 the time the car is upside down (wait, which side am I working on? ) I got attempt #3 positioned, leveled and tacked in.
I also trimmed the inner edge of the flare. I had my fingers crossed there'd be clearance - which made installing that wheel a little harder than normal.
Clearance is still tight-ish on the outside with about 3/4" on the inside. If needed, I can roll the remaining flare lip as @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=721 mentioned or as @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 suggested, mill a bit off the inside of the wheel.
I also have the option of removing some material from the inside of the Tangerine pickup, where it butts up to the outside of the long.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Doing my best at channeling Jeff Hail. Check his installation of this kit and you'll understand what I mean.
Don't overreact to that camber number. Remember, I don't always have the car at "0" level. At this point, it was at -2.1 degrees, putting my ride height camber with no shims at ~ -1.7
Attached thumbnail(s)
And I'm happy with the wheel position in the flare opening. Wheelbase measurement spec be damned!
Actually, I don't have the front suspension on the car so can't even measure it yet. Once I do, I'll be interested to see where I ended up.
I have to say, I REALLY like these wheels on this car.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=8436 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058
Wes and Pete stopped by yesterday for a visit and to talk about a small project I may be able to help them accomplish. Another couple of characters, to say the least!
So I just want to say how great it is to put faces with names and get to know others from this forum. Pete brought his insanely nice /6 conversion (as well as a very generous gift of a copy of 000!) and while the cars are always a point of interest, what I'm most fascinated by are the stories and experiences everyone has, how willing to share and help they are and in general, what great people we have in this community.
Anyway, back to the build...
^ Back at ya.
Was great to hang out with you and Wes, and to see your project and shop.
My only regret is you didn't actually sit in my car to check out seating position—but it looks like you are well ahead of the game on that. Your build is epic, and let me know if you ever want to take my car for a spin for lunch!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 doing an excellent job Chris thank you for documenting this so well.
Now what about the steel roof.
Killer progress as usual!!! Everything is looking really great!!
Trial fitting of the driver's side. The wheel position in the flare is virtually perfect on this side too!
And as Jeff Hail mentioned, it's more important that the chassis numbers are correct - and my suspension pick-up points are square. As well, I achieved a nice fore/aft fit so, apparently, my chants and prayers to the fabrication gods were answered.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Well, so much for perfect symmetry. It seems the "tighter on one side" gene was passed on to my chassis so additional clearance will be required here.
I'm running the Elephant Racing poly bronze bushing set up and they use a "large stainless washer" between the shaft and trailing arm mount/chassis. I may fab a thinner one for each inside one and move the arms in a bit.
And it looks like I will roll the flare lip, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
I spent today doing what will likely become a "project extender".
I have a new acquaintance.
He owns a composite company.
He has some "interesting" capabilities.
I'm thinking I need to take advantage of them:
A 5' x 5' (you read that right) 3D printer that is used to print the molds. For things like carbon f-ing wheels!
Attached thumbnail(s)
An autoclave you can almost drive into with your auto!
Seriously, this thing is like 5' tall/wide and 10' long.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And my favorite: a 5-axis mill that can carve things like, oh, I don't know... car body panels?
I'm taking a set of doors, bumpers, hood and trunk lid over to see what we might do...
Carbon 914 parts anyone?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Carbon, oh heck yeah, depending on price I would be interested in ..... Oh wait not on the 914-6 build, it was meant to be period correct parts build..... Oh do I love good Carbon
Carbon Fiber Mini-Lights he can call them Ubber-lites. Wonder if the design is still protected, as I prefer the originals over all the copies with their odd spoke with a lug hole in them. That would be one place I would deviate on, Reduce unsprung weight is always a goal for me.
Cool facility looks like he has the right stuff, if he has a large 3D Scanner, then you are golden, and should be able to calculate the shrink rate, and build a great part. Since he is building wheels I think he has composite down to a bit of a science. That is unless he is doing these for wall clocks. In which case still very cool.
check out Ring Brothers SEMA Camaro..... lots of similar open pattern panels/stiffeners
Quote : tygaboy After seeing the level of quality available here (skill, experience, plus proper tools and equipment), I'm entertaining the possibility of partnering with him to make bumpers, hoods and trunk lids that are "ready to run", just bolt on and go. Or paint.
I'll post updates as things happen - or don't.
[/quote]
That would be incredible! Sign me up. First in line .
[quote name='sb914' date='Nov 19 2019, 06:53 AM' post='2763282']
Quote : tygaboy After seeing the level of quality available here (skill, experience, plus proper tools and equipment), I'm entertaining the possibility of partnering with him to make bumpers, hoods and trunk lids that are "ready to run", just bolt on and go. Or paint.
I'll post updates as things happen - or don't.
[/quote]
That would be incredible! Sign me up. First in line .
[/quote]
Arrrg. The initial tacking in was done and I thought I had things all set... But no.
I was doing some final verification, I noticed a gap where the pick up points will be welded to the angled part of the longs.
The arrow points at where I ended up with a gap. Note this is pre-tacking and shows how things should look.
The gap was maybe 1/16 - 3/32". After all this work, I wasn't going to accept that. So I ended up cutting the tacks, pulling everything out and starting over.
Maybe the 4th time is the charm?
NOTE to others who may be doing this mod:
Once you get the pick ups positioned fore and aft, and have determined the width of the gap you'll have between the two main parts of the fixture, consider clamping a strap to both sides of the fixture to prevent it from opening up.
Or at the very least, pay more attention than I did and triple check the position ahead of tacking!
Attached thumbnail(s)
OK, so I leveled the car again. And this time, I checked level across two of the front suspension attachment points.
Hooray, my car isn't twisted...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I won't bore you with a repeat of all the steps.
Follow the Tangerine instructions, check for square, check for level, tack in.
Fit the arms, snug things up, set to ride height.
Wheel-in-flare fitment. CHECK!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Check for camber. No shims.
I'm within about 1/4 degree side to side.
Following in Mr. Hail's footsteps, I plan to follow a weld sequence of "outside top, inside bottom" first so any distortion that happens will add additional negative camber.
On to checking that I can achieve proper toe. Assuming so, weld all this in then add the sheet metal plating.
Attached thumbnail(s)
My first attempt at checking toe. I ran out of jack stands so just used some scrap perforated material to form a set of parallel string lines around the car. Not too sexy but it works.
With the outer mount moved all the way back, I can just get a bit of toe out so I'm calling the pick up points "in the correct (enough) position"!
Time to final weld all the pieces.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Scott http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=58431&st=520#, pretty slick, well with in your talents.
Enjoy Chris
I don't see Chris doing PVC.
I do see him, building the entire thing out of Aluminum using A CNC laser cutter, then TIG welding the brackets. Then making it all fit in a USPS flat rate box and selling the kits all over the world to people who want the best.
The nice thing about PVC it is simple, the bad thing is it bends. I know it is all reference, and as long as it is square and equal off center you are good. What I don't like is the lack of artistry it takes to make them. Ingenuity maybe but no artistry.
Chris I already have this drawn up in my head, hard anodized please with mill cut reliefs and radiuses edges.
You can read my mind right
I called my Mom and (sniff), told her the other boys were (sniff, sniff) picking on me...
No sniffing in the garge. You are rocking this.
Back on post #2026, I speculated that I'd make a thinner "large stainless washer" to help with outboard tire clearance. I decided I would go ahead with that.
Here's a comparo. Note the one I made is fresh off the plasma table and will be dressed and deburred, but you get the idea. Thinner means the trailing arm moves inboard by the difference.
Frankly, when I look at the Elephant install instructions, I wonder why I need this at all. I have a call in to Elephant to ask if I can just eliminate it altogether. When you see how this contraption goes together, you see there's a shoulder on the pivot shaft that ends up bolted hard against the washer anyway.
Why can't I just let it go hard up against the inner ear of the new suspension console? It's not a bearing surface...
Yes, I know there'a an overall width dimension but if I make it up on the other side, why wouldn't that be OK?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Triple double checking all the measurements. In order to do that, and because I'm running late Carrera hub-centric hubs, I have to install the axles in order to ensure there's no play in the position of the wheel.
To do all this work, you have to climb in and out from under the car 3486 times. How may times did I smack my head on the inner CV joints? I don't know because I have amnesia from multiple blunt force head traumas... (literally = )
Attached thumbnail(s)
OK, so here's the final, final before committing to fully welding everything.
No shims, deal level.
1.7 and 1.6 degrees negative camber.
I have to say, I can't believe how evenly this all turned out. Not bad for an amateur... I'll take it!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I used 4 jack stands on a Corvette at Lemans Classic,,,this guy was laughing , but he was slower..427 corvettes...
great documentation..welder up
And in case you were wondering why I made those thinner stainless washers or why I want to run without them. 16 x 9 with 245s, no wheel spacers.
I suspect I'll want to roll that remaining lip, regardless.
As I said earlier: She is one wide girl!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I was able to speak with Chuck at Elephant Racing late this afternoon. He verified my suspicions: The reason for the "large stainless washers" is to provide a smooth thrust surface for the bronze bushing.
Remember, the Elephant kit assumes it's being installed in a standard 914, where the inside surface of the suspension console has that serrated area that would foul the edge of the bronze bushing.
So... given the Tangerine kit has this nice, smooth, flat surface on both ends, I can safely eliminate these things, move the trailing arm inboard that little bit more and gain a smidge more outer tire clearance! Maybe i can get away without rolling the flare.
I simply have to make up the dimensional change on the other end of the trailing arm pivot shaft. No biggie.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 - Stephen, I suspect you're pretty self sufficient re: fabbing stuff, but if needed, I'd be happy to cut you a set of these stainless washers. Just let me know.
When I installed Chris's kit I built additional camber into the pick-ups figuring that I could always add more shims.. but I cannot take out no shims. If a day comes when you want more than 1.6 degrees of camber, it wouldn't hurt to have it available.
Also, be aware of the toe curve and be sure to have the adjustable range you want at the ride-height you intend to run.
I love keeping up with this build--thank you for the play-by-play.
Jeff - I'll check all the items you mentioned. Given what I've seen so far, I think just the pivot shaft and the fix will be removing the appropriate amount off one end.
I'll report back on the solution once I'm sure what's needed.
NOTE to others doing this install
The sleeve that aligns the two sides of the fixture does have a bit of movement. Let's be fair: it's a tube slipped into a tube, not a precision milled clamping device. And it works just fine. That said:
When the fixture is in the car and the car is right side up, any play in the sleeve sags the inside of the two parts downward, "adding" negative camber.
If your car is on a rotisserie, and you work on it upside down, any play "removes" negative camber. I need to combat that on all fronts!
Jeff measured 1.375 and 1.5 negative camber ahead of final welding. I have 1.6 and 1.7. My chassis will never be a race car so this seems well in range for me.
That said (and save your "Dude, that's a bit hillbilly!" comments. I know it is), based on the static measurements I had ahead of final welding, I wanted to "encourage" any welding-induced distortion to add negative camber and toe in.
So, to encourage the toe, I used a small spacer between the fixture and that bar clamped to it. For camber, the 4x4/floor jack removes the play at the sleeve and helps camber stay where it is, maybe add a bit more as it's being welded. And it's not like the car is supported by it! It's just pushing out any sleeve play, plus a bit of force.
Finally, as mentioned, the weld sequence is outside/top, inside lower to further encourage negative camber.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the solution! Very simple and effective!
You dont want to know my plan for fixing some twist in my chassis if you think this is "redneck"
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 asked "Make the Noise....!"
OK! OK! Volume UP, everybody!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPMOtSBjgpk
Getting the first of the sheet metal components trimmed and fit. This one is almost ready for final welding.
I can't say enough about this Tangerine product!
On a less happy front, the latest biopsy from my face came back as melanoma. Surgery is scheduled for December 23. Merry Christmas to me...
That said, this latest spot (this is #3 on my face) is the absolute earliest stage melanoma can be, so there's that.
As I said to the Dr.s who did my earlier surgeries: "Scars on my face simply add to my already ruggedly handsome good looks."
Attached thumbnail(s)
X,O my brother. Sounds like you and your doctor are out in front of this. Crappy to get through, but you will. Keep on keeping on!
Chris,
Prayers headed your way. Keep on keeping on with your amazing build! I know you will beat this like a red headed stepchild. We got your back!
Hi Chris - Very sorry to hear about that. I am glad they caught it in the earliest of stages and I am sure they will be able to excise and treat it so you are as good as new. As we age these are the things we all have to deal with. Best wishes and I hope to see you soon.
Michael
You caught it early and that's the important thing!!
Also, can't wait to see that rear suspension done
Mend quickly my friend. Your on top of this. Nothing but the best wished your way. Sounds like your in capable hands.
Besides you need a little vaca :-) We all know you work hard.
Thanks for the kind thoughts, everyone.
As this is the 3rd time for facial skin cancer surgery for me, I'll say (thankfully!) it's not that big a deal. I've been on an 'every 6 months' full body check since my first melanoma and we've been watching this particular spot for just over a year.
It's very early and should be a quick fix.
Again, thank you. It's great to have your support!
Now, let's get back to the build!
Hope you cover up with good safety equipment. Lots of the stuff you like to do produces the side effects of UVs.
I myself battle a terrible UV burn on my left hand, it is my resting hand when Mig Welding, and after a bit, even with heavy gloves I have to stop, and after a long day, it is Silver Paste on the hand, and let it stay on all night.
Best of luck Chris, your thoughts are with us. Easy procedure, yes, but the healing can become an issue if the sight is not keep clean.
Use the time to draw up some cool CAD stuff for the plasma to cut, or research you next tool to make me
Chris...best of the Holidays, and most of all Best of health to you ! Looking forward to 2020 and seeing your machine hitting the streets
Marty
Sharp eyed folks may have noticed that as I was trying to get the pick ups located correctly so the wheels are positioned in the center of the flares, I trimmed too far forward into the longs and ended up with this gap that needs filling.
So I cut a couple elliptical gusset plates and bent them to fit. Problem solved.
Yes, the gussets will be welded all the way around.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The first of the driver side sheet metal support plates are trimmed and (mostly) welded in.
There are a number of options for how these two pieces can be fit. I opted to slice a slot down the length so the plate would sit down around the long's pinch weld flange and fit flush against the long at that forward edge.
I then welded along the slot, fusing the plate to the pinch welded flange of the long.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And I have to say, I don't know how Jeff Hail was able to do his install without a rotisserie.
It's been difficult even WITH the rotisserie!
Let me back up and show some details as I work on the other side.
Here's the "end cap", as I've taken to calling it. It wraps around to close off a small-ish, vertical opening that's left in the long after the pick up is fit.
It's pretty simple in that it goes where it goes. I only sanded a couple spots to get it to fit. Here it is tacked in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then there's the "top cap" (even though it's the bottom part. Hey, the car is upside down and it's my build. Deal with it. )
I haven't verified this w/ @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 , but I suspect these pieces are used in both the 2" raise and the 3" raise kits. Since mine is the 2", you can see there's some trimming needed on that inside leg to get it to sit down where it needs to be.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then, once that inside leg is trimmed, this piece collides with the long's spot welded flange. That's why I decided to cut that slot; to let the piece slide into place while retaining most of the flange.
Yes, I did grind away part of the flange. Essentially, the trimming of the flange goes from the level you can see in the slot to the same level as the edge of the "end cap". No reason to clearance more than needed. Just get the front end of the piece to sit flat against the long.
Attached thumbnail(s)
However - and I know this will come as a big surprise - the inner and outer pieces of the longs aren't in the same plane. At least not on my chassis.
So I have this nice gap on the outside.
Attached thumbnail(s)
To address this, I trimmed the pieces so I could tweak that outer part down until the front edge was in contact with the long.
Here's the two pieces all tacked, ready for final welding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, amazing work!!! I spent some time today on a slow clinic day catching up on your progress and this just blows me away. Thank you for all the documentation and for sharing all of your work. It is inspiring to say the least. I'll PM you in a bit on a separate topic....
A bit of edge trimming and the inside upper plates are tacked in.
On the driver side, I ended up having to weld on about a 3/16" extension to the front, inside vertical edge of the plate to get a nice fit round the entire plate. Again, no surprise in that we know there's all sorts of variation across 914 chassis.
Attached thumbnail(s)
But I was able to get complete contact on all mating surfaces!
Most all of that credit goes to the quality of the Tangerine product, but I did take the time to fine tune.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Now it's on to the "fun" part: fitting the plates that live inside the fender well.
Ugh. Not great access and really hard to get line of sight to all the joints that need welding.
And as it relates to the inner and outer large plates, these need to be first in line for final welding as any shrinkage here will add negative camber. I need to lock these down before going after those inners I just tacked in.
But I'll figure it out!
Hmmm, maybe this is the time to add some fender vents...
Your fenders are tacked in place with several welds, easy to remove and redo. It would only be your _______ time.
Woops, that was really OT. 'deleted'
Carry on..
I would like to do fender vents too, but I don't have the steel for it...
Wow, great work as always! Looking good. The time you spent getting it all square and level will pay off the rest of the cars lifetime.
Sorry to hear about the health issues, hopefully they can take care of it easily.
Keep on building an entertaining us all!
Helps inspire me work on my own projects.
John
Nice trailing arm mounts, Chris
Flip things over and you can see there are some openings to close!
The kit comes with a piece that closes the long and extends over to the inner pick up plate and the inner support piece I covered in the last couple posts.
However, it didn't quite fit my chassis/pick up. I assume it's another "all these cars are slightly different". No matter as I opted to go with a slightly different design.
Attached thumbnail(s)
First, I cut this piece to close off the long.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I tacked it in and fully welded the areas that wouldn't be accessible once I added the other gusset plate I had planned.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, I cut, folded, fit and tacked in this piece. I also fit the trailing arm, just to be sure there would be no clearance issues.
Yes, I see that little opening in the corner...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Little opening in the corner all gone. Everything in this area ready for final welding.
On to the other side!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Lather, rinse, repeat. For some reason, I ended up with some sort of contamination on the under side of the one plate and ended up with a couple surprise "POPs" that left me with a couple holes. No worries, they'll be addressed during final welding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Now the fun part: fitting and welding in the outside upper reinforcements.
After starting on the passenger side, I was reminded I haven't yet patched the hell hole-related inner wheel housing damage at the battery tray. You can see the holes, just above the upper edges of the plate.
Anyway, this gives an idea of the available access I have.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I wanted to make at least some progress with one of these uppers so I moved to the driver side.
Have I said that I don't see how folks do this install without a rotisserie?
This piece needed just a bit of trimming in a couple spots. I was able to get it tacked in and with a touch of hammering, should be able to get the edges in contact with the chassis all the way around its perimeter.
Again, this is the piece I want to final weld first (on each side) to help control any distortion-induced camber change.
In all, a pretty productive day.
Attached thumbnail(s)
[quote name='tygaboy' date='Dec 9 2019, 03:04 PM' post='2768607']
Have I said that I don't see how folks do this install without a rotisserie?
Just reverse the polarity, its like flipping the tub upside down!
Boring, I know, but progress is being made!
I patched all the battery acid and rust damage on the inner wheel house (except the small hole you can see just ahead of the reinforcement plate). This allowed me to get the passenger side outer reinforcement fit and tacked in; I can deal with that hole later. I REALLY want to wrap up the install of these raised pick ups.
And after looking more closely, I think I can weld these plates in with the access I have. At the very least, I'll give it a go with things as they are.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Love the progress and all the boxing!!!
I opted to go MIG along the top edge. Not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.
Not my best welds but so long as they are strong, this area is really function over form.
And there's no doubt I got good penetration!
That rubber isolation mount was reinstalled after things cooled.
Attached thumbnail(s)
After some TIGing, I decided I would have better, faster, less heat results going MIG.
There are places where, despite my best efforts to clean things, I still had crap pull though the weld from the other side of the chassis panel and cause some blotchy spots.
But in all, I'm happy with how this is coming out. It's going to get tinted bed liner on the entire underside so things will be all nice and tidy. Still, I'm after the best I can do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Man, that's some nice welding.
That looks really good Chris!
Major Milestone: Install of the Tangerine Racing rear pick ups is complete!
OK, so there are a couple spots where I got contamination in the welds so I'll go back and tidy them up but that's essentially cosmetic so I'm calling this DONE!
In all, it wasn't bad. I was just so paranoid about it because it seemed like I could really screw it up, what with it being the suspension points and all. But I took my time and quadruple triple checked things along the way and it turned out pretty well.
And the final welding did change the camber measurements. Following Mr. Hail's recommendation of welding upper outside/lower inside first was spot on. I added a couple tenths negative camber and can happily report that with no shims, I have -1.9 degrees on both sides!
Can't hardly believe I did it. Hopefully, my experience will help others like @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 who have this install ahead of them.
Big thanks to Jeff Hail and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 for their help and encouragement!
On to the next to-do...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Thats a strap..I mean a Wrap... Great Job....Tangerine will sell more kits with documentation like this,, and Jeff Hails too...
Back to the custom fab to-do list stuff. There are a ton of little things to finish off so this afternoon it was welding in the side supports for the main fire wall panels.
Drill some plug weld holes, prep and weld-through primer between the mating surfaces and in they go.
It's finally happening: less Clecos!
I'll be seam sealing all these panel intersections, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's one of those "well, I didn't see that coming" items.
The door bars and rear suspension tower brace bars were installed prior to my fabulous idea of a custom fire wall. The aforementioned bars are welded to plates that were plug welded to each other when the factory fire wall was there. Now that things are "different", these plates ended up sort of hanging in space. They are plenty strong and are pretty well tied in to the chassis so I'm really just trying to visually tidy things up.
After a bit of head scratching, I decided to plate them in.
This first pic shows what's left of the original fire wall below the rear window on the driver side. The sharpie line is what will be removed and gives you an idea of how the plates look like they're just hanging there. The second pic is the passenger side showing the fire wall trimmed to final shape and the beginnings of the plating in of the plates.
Yes, I have a full plate!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chipping away at all the chassis stuff. Here is another "extra thing" I have to do due to the custom fire wall.
You can see the shape of the factory floor panel means there's a gap between it and the lower cross member, which leaves a nice little passageway into the interior. That won't do!
A quick cardboard template transferred to sheet metal, some trimming/fitting and it's ready to weld in. Repeat on the other side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Your making a lot of progress in such a short amount of time! Not gonna recognize the car shortly!!
I will be thinking of you on 12/23 buddy. Hopefully it all goes easy-peasy and you are home relaxing before you know it and counting the days until you can get back to work on your car.
How on earth are you going to sit still for three weeks? I may have to drop by and verify you are not exerting yourself. Let me know if you'd be up for some of the local BBQ later this week.
Surgery complete and here's the look I'll be sporting until the Jan 7 reconstruction.
After he did the excision, the doc said he didn't think the reconstruct would be a problem, so that's good.
Again, no lifting more than 10 lbs for a week, they don't even want you to bend over.
Oh, well. Time to do some binge watching!
Let's start with some car stuff, shall we?
And a big thanks to everyone for the kind wishes! Happy holidays to you and yours!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Good to hear Chris...Merry Christmas "on the low" this year to you both!
Tony
Same group did a documentary on Carol Shelby which was really good also.
Enjoy the shows and Merry Christmas to ya Chris.
See ya working on this project in the new year!
Speedy recovery Chris. Amazing what they can do with plastic surgery these days. I had a two inch hole taken out of the middle of my forehead down to the skull but you can barely tell it now. I'd post a pic but I've been told it makes some people want to throw up.
+1 on the Carol Shelby documentary. It's nicely done.
Hi Chris - Scars give you character. Looks like you have that well under control and will be back to fabricating in no time. Please follow the doctor's advise.... don't want you sneaking out to the shop and lifting stuff or getting in weird positions and welding and aggravating your open wound. Until then, relax and enjoy the holidays. Cheers,
Michael
Great to hear!
I hear chicks dig face scars
If you don’t have Motor Trend on demand nows the time to get it!! Any of the originals are fantastic
Ant Ansteads special build, while not my thing was a fun watch, which leads me to say, your building a special.
Speedy recovery and don't go to crazy in the down time.
Merry Christmas Chris, can't wait to see what you do in the new year.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2766 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22428 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 and all you other guys:
Thanks so much for the nice thoughts and comments. It really means a lot.
Yes, I saw the Shelby documentary. Makes me want to build a Le Mans or CanAm replica. P4 or T70? Well, how about I finish this 914 first, eh?
And as to what silly things can happen when I'm not able to do much, and how this will impact what I'm up to next year, it's too late.
I've already made a stir craziness-induced component purchase that I'm sure will have many of you shaking your heads in disbelief.
But let me get things a bit farther down the road and be sure I can pull it off before I go public with it. Assuming it comes together as planned, it'll be too cool.
Stay tuned!
Silly boy...
Cracker
Chris, best wishes for a peaceful holiday season and an uneventful recovery. Just a quick tip: online shopping and pain medications do not mix well. Ask me how I ended up with my collection of depression glass pitchers.... I know you are self sufficient out there but you know how to reach me if you need anything.
Hey folks, your good thoughts seem to have worked! My pathology report came back and the good news is the initial excision work got all the cancer! It's clear margins for me so no more "rust removal". On Jan 7, I go in for what is literally final "body work"!
I'm still supposed to be taking it pretty easy but I couldn't resist the shop's call...
That said, I'm only doing "light" sorts of things. Again, I know this sort of stuff is boring but it needs doing. Today was final install of the passenger door sill - I'm happy with how it turned out.
The to-do list is getting shorter.
Attached thumbnail(s)
OH my gosh! Chris is better looking!
Great to hear the good news Chris!!!
Tony
AWESOME!!!!
Great news Chris! Can’t wait to see what you have in store for us next year.
Happy New Year
John
All - I really appreciate the kind words. Thanks so much.
Now, let's get back to work!
Today was knocking a few items off the to-do list:
- I needed to replace a few of the 6mm threaded inserts in the replacement outer longs, those that hold on the underside of the rockers. One had a rusted in/broken off bolt, the two middle ones had to be added as the replacement outers don't come with them installed.
So boring I didn't even take pics!
Next, it was on to the flares. Those that have done this know how poorly the "ends" are formed (mine actually have spots where the metal was folded over onto itself and is now three layers!) and how they don't match the shape of the chassis.
So today I went after the rear part of the rear flares. Let me start with a pic of the essentially complete driver's side. Car is upside down, obviously!
Attached thumbnail(s)
To match things side to side, I made a quick card board template of the driver side. I've found that the large size Post Grape Nuts boxes work really well for this!
I used that rear-most part of the curved lip and cut it to length and width at the wheel well opening.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's an example of how the flares come. You can see one of the "folded over on itself" areas and how not quite paint ready they are.
Ignore those Sharpie lines. They were initial guestimates from before I did the driver side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Let's do this.
- flip the template over and get it positioned
- find a suitable dolly and clamp it in place to set the line where the flange needs to be
You can see how I set the dolly against the factory flange to ensure the flare's flange coincides with it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Start hammering the flange up (down? ). Go slowly, working a bend along the entire length of the flare material.
Go back and add a little more angle to the entire flange.
Repeat until the flange is tipped to where it needs to be.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Like this!
Yes, I swapped the position of the dolly and clamps. I did this to allow the hammering angle I needed and to get to the entire flange.
Really though, once you get the flange started, it's no big deal to move the dolly around. Just be sure it's clamped fast and firm into the corner you started before you continue tipping the flange.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I did a quick, rough trim, just to get the excess material out of the way.
Next, I'll weld up that seam and final trim the flange.
On to the next thing...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Corner welded and flange trimmed to final shape.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Boy thats some pretty metal work!!
Looks awesome Chris! Better than Porsche would've done!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Thanks for the positive comments. There are certainly areas that could be improved but I'm not yet capable of delivering a 100% metal finished result. Filler will cover/correct my imperfect fab work. Not that I'm NOT giving it all I have!
In keeping with the "finish the flares" effort, I moved to start on one of the front flares, rear section.
I cut the corner areas off the factory wheel openings figuring I could add them back on and merge them with the flares. Here's how the first one went.
Note that that hole for the rocker mount has to be in the correct location so I mounted the rocker and eyeballed where this piece needs to be, clamped it in place and roughly tacked it in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I did my best to get everything lined up...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Tack, weld a bit, grind, hammer/dolly, check for alignment, tweak as needed. Repeat until done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Trim things to shape, final grind with 80 grit then hit things with a conditioning disc. It turned out pretty well.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking great Chris, keep up the awesome work.
Final check that the rocker mount hole is where it needs to be. Yep.
On to the next corner...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I love the fabrication work and your determination to produce high quality final results. Someday, I’ll do flares. I just have to remember to use your thread as inspiration!
I figured I may as well work on the other "hard" part of the flares. This is the front edge of the rear flare. You can see how the flare has essentially just a radius curved edge where the chassis has the two flat planes with crisp breaks as it wraps around under the car.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So the first thing I did was crisp up the flare to get it in alignment with the chassis.
This is one of those moments where I'm thinking to myself "is this what they mean when they say 'things are going to get worse before they get better...'"?
I hope so!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That section of the chassis was in the way so I opted to slice it a bit and rotate it out of the way. It has the rocker mounting hole in it so I really wanted to keep it attached.
Again, worse before better? Eeesh...
Anyway, with that first part crisped up, I bent the flare back up into alignment with that first, angled part of the chassis.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Tack those planes together to keep things aligned.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Clamp the trusty "bending buck" into position and tip the flange to establish that 2nd crisp corner.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Using this style of Vise Grip made aligning things more consistent than using only my hands or a hammer and dolly.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Bend that small section back into position, lots of hammer and dolly work, weld things up, grind as needed, hammer and dolly, grind and conditioning disc everything and it's essentially done.
I will say that crisping up that first edge forced a flat-ish area into the lower about 1.5" of the flare bottom. I compared it to the other side, where the flare is "as delivered" and it's not quite as noticeably bad but also not really how I'd like things.
I think I'll do a bit of slicing and dicing to move it into what I think is a better shape.
It's always something, ain't it?
Anyone else want to chime in on addressing these flare corner areas?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very impressive Chris...I see surgery has had little effect at slowing you down!!!
T
I decided to see what I could do about that flat spot I introduced/exacerbated when I created the crisper corners. I started by using a small cut off wheel to make a couple relief cuts.
Then I used a curved dolly to try and persuade the curve to reappear. A bit hard to tell from the pic but it worked! The flat spot is gone.
I'll weld things up and call this area done. Again, it going to require filler. But overall, another great learning, experience and skill development opportunity.
When I do the other side, I think I'll make the relief cut first to see if I can "preserve the curve" as I'm crisping up those corners/bends.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That little slice to restore the curve looks sorta familiar to me...
from the photos I can not tell if your face is flat on the curve, but the fenders look to have a slight radius on the edge. But the fender is more of a crisp edge. Is that what is making it look odd.
Custom T dolly and a slightly larger cut might be your friend. Advantage of metal, you can always shrink, stretch or weld it back to what you want. I don't have to tell you that.
Yeah, well you should see the other guy!
Reconstruction surgery was completed yesterday. All went well so a week of rest/no lifting and I'll be all set. Finger crossed that the 3rd time is the charm and this is the last of my issues.
Oh, and fuck cancer.
Attached thumbnail(s)
You'll be as pretty as always in a couple weeks! Be a good boy and lay low as instructed!!!
T
Time to watch some cartoons!
Woo Hoo!!!! Success!
I've passed the "wait a week after surgery before doing anything strenuous" time period so I'm back in the shop!
Today it was another of the flare corners. I must be out of practice - I neglected to take any pics of what I did. All I can do is show the other side to give an idea of the before/after.
Here's another example of what the corners look like: wrinkly and folded over on itself. Wait...that sounds like what's happening to me!
You can see it's the same story with the flare corner not being crisp or being anywhere close to the shape of the chassis, no flange, etc, etc.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Again, sorry for no in-process shots but here's how this corner turned out. Obviously, it'll need filler but it's lots better than what I started with. On to the next one.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great work Chris; glad you are back out in the shop.
Looks great, its all a learning process the next one will turn out even better.
I'll post one more of these then stop. It's essentially the same on each one: the flare ends aren't even close to what they need to be, they aren't symmetrical, side to side, etc.
This next one is a good example of that. Note how the one I did earlier looks and how it has a straight shot inboard from where the lip terminates, This other one has a totally different shape there, almost like a chunk was taken out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Anyway, first I hammered the lower area flat and into shape to match that first angled portion of the chassis, then clamped the dolly in place and added the crease needed to match the lower portion of the chassis.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The original factory piece I cut off wasn't going to work so I bent up a channel and tacked in into place.
Here you can also see the "patch" I made to address that missing chunk.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, I made a template of the other side that I used to determine final size and shape for this side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Tack, hammer, trim, grind. Getting there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A bit more fine tuning and I'll call this area done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow Chris! Your on a whole other level with this perfection! This car is going to be simply stunning!
Since I was never going to use them, today I fabbed the needed pieces and plated over the jack post areas.
Then it was welding on the Patrick Motorsports toe adjuster attachment blocks.
I even remembered to drill the clearance hole for the bolt before I welded it on!
I still need to weld the joint between the top of the plate and the chassis.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great metal fabrication porn @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 !
Both sides complete! And note that these toe adjusters usually run parallel to the chassis/ground. But with the Tangerine pickups raising things up 2", I get this nice sloping install.
I'm slowly ticking off these to-do's and should have all the chassis fab complete in a couple weeks, fingers crossed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Two weeks and your done with your chassis? Whats after the chassis? Engine/trans mounting?
Back to working on things that aren't part of any other 914! Uninteresting to most, I know, but I have to get it done and I may as well document it.
Today was fabbing a piece to close off between the engine compartment and interior. This opening was created when I removed the stock firewall and added the removable access panel. I need to seal off between that curved top area of the firewall and the upper portion of the access panel's frame, just above the upper attachment points.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I had part of the firewall from a donor/parts car so I sliced off the area that matches the lip of the firewall curved section. I cleaned everything up, flipped the piece upside down and used the spot welder to attach it on the inside of the firewall's curve.
Note I now have a nice little return to which I can weld a panel!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, I made a quick template to get the panel shape and used that to cut a piece of 18 ga to fit. Because this panel is mounted at an angle, and against a curve, I bent it accordingly.
I then bend up a couple flanges, determined where they needed to be and spot welded them to the panel. Then I used the bead roller to tip a slight flange into the curved edge of the panel so it would lay at the same angle as the curved piece I'd spot welded on earlier.
I'll add a flange on the front edge, too. The curved edge will be spot welded on but I'll use structural panel bond on the faces of the flanges where they attach to the access panel frame piece.
Attached thumbnail(s)
MAJOR MILESTONES!
- the console frame is welded in
- the floor has been plug welded to the console frame
- the lower parts of the fire wall have been bonded in
This is my first time trying something like this. I figure there's no kill like overkill so I'm using 3M structural adhesive to attach the fire wall panels. I'm not doing the rivets until after things are painted as I want the rivets to contrast with the paint.
Riveting on fresh paint... I'm so looking forward to that!
I understand this stuff is pretty incredible. A buddy of mine said, "You realize that you'll NEVER get those panels apart. It's stronger than spot welding." Fine by me!
So here we go...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Apply the adhesive to both surfaces and tool it out with an acid brush. Add another small bead to one surface to be sure there is plenty of adhesive and any potential voids are filled while the parts are clamped and curing.
The lower section here is made up of three separate pieces and a number of mating surfaces had to be prepared ahead of fitting. This adhesive has a working time of 60 minutes so I felt like I had plenty of time.
I still felt a bit nervous but it went pretty well. After everything was in place and clamped, I double checked and cleaned out all the rivet holes and decided to use Clecos only in those that had no sign of adhesive in them. That's why some holes aren't being used. Bonding in a Cleco wouldn't be good.
Once things were aligned, clamp, clamp, clamp and wait 24 hours for a full cure.
Again, not too exciting for most of you but a HUGE deal to me. After all this time, the fire wall is being permanently installed!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Man, I can not wait until I can see your car again.
Looking great! Do you have any goal for when it may be on the road? I am thinking by the end of the year.
I used the 3M body panel adhesive on my Sheridan body panel parts (with some strategic rivets - just in case!) and it has been holding up great.
Yes that 3m Adhesive is strong, matter of fact it is used instead of welding for some operations. It is great when doing dissimilar metals or strengths that become harder to weld, or loose tensile when welded.
Though friction welding has solved some the other dissimilar metal issues.
If you predrilled all the rivets you will have an easier time with the fresh paint.
Wonder if you could get a laser cut mask that lays over work area, and leave the rivet area open. At least it will give you a bit of protection. Think 3M 8 mil paint protection shield.
Next up structural closed cell foam.
Well Chris.... that is the 64 million dollar question. I am hoping to have it at the WCR this year.
The instructions call out cure times when the temp is in the low 70s. It hasn't been out of the 50s for the past few days but today the sun was out and it warmed up a bit so how about a bit of the ol' "solar cure"?
I figured a few hours in the sun and I should be good to meet the "full cure in 24 hours". Not that I'm stressing the parts.
And yes, I rotate the car every so often to keep the sun fully on the lower firewall.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Did you IR temp the steel? Just curious what it got up to.
Time to bond in the access panel frame!
I fabbed a flange for the front edge of the access panel's upper area "close off" plate. It needed a little stretching to match the contour of the plate. Then I spot welded it to the closing plate. The tipped edges will bond to the back side of the dog house.
I liberally (!) primed the inside of this area. Wow, after all this time, this is the last time I'll be seeing this part of the car!
Attached thumbnail(s)
It was much warmer today and that made a noticeable difference in how easily the adhesive tooled out. It flowed a LOT more quickly. And after my experience with bonding the lower area of the fire wall, I used more adhesive to ensure I got it to flow out of the seams during clamping.
It was a bit messier but I got the result I was after.
The main panels behind the seats and the trim pieces above them are not bonded in. They are Cleco'd in place to help ensure the dog house is properly located. It's nice in that all I have to do is Cleco things together at the unbonded surfaces and everything is in the correct place. Then simply clamp the bonded areas and I know the parts are all aligned!
Note the lower area is fully cured. The Clecos are there simply because I haven't yet removed them.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's a shot of the closing plate flange and how it bonds to the dog house.
Once the chassis is media blasted and primered, and after the carbon panels are bonded in to the recesses, I'll seam seal every panel joint then spray the entire back of the fire wall with a noise and heat coating.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have lots of little things that I need to complete. One example is tying the seat mount cross member to the console frame.
I cut the center of the seat mount cross member to clear the custom console and am using the curved bits to connect things. This requires trimming the curved bit and making 4 small pieces to close everything up. Here, you can see the curved piece and the first of the 4 small pieces.
Completing this will probably end up taking 1/2 a day, at least for me!
Ah, the tedious joys of custom fabrication...
Attached thumbnail(s)
All three pieces fit, welded to the cross bar and those welds finished.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the passenger side of the cross bar is now tied to the console frame.
Next, just repeat on the driver side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yep, it took 1/2 a day to complete tying both sides of the seat mount support to the console frame. The good news is that I did finish both sides and crossed another item off the to-do list. No pics of the driver side as it's essentially the same deal as what you've already seen.
Less than a page of items left on the to-do list and the chassis will be off to mesia blast and primer/sealer. Getting there!
I'm going to start calling you Prophet, cause you have a vision of the future most of us will never have.
Awesome, just Awesome...
Upper fire wall trim panels bonded, clamped and curing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
After things cured, I removed all the excess adhesive and hit the top area with 80 grit on a d/a sander
It's amazing what a quick squirt of rattle can primer can do for how things look.
I am so happy with how this is turning out!
Attached thumbnail(s)
STUNNING!
The chassis work is jaw dropping as usual.
I hope that engine can live up to this chassis!
I’m not all that familiar with LS3 Chevy ( that is the power plant still?)
That engine is around what , 400 lbs of torque?
This 914 is gonna scoot!
Always enjoy reading the progress here. Always learning.
Kudos Chris
After thinking about the fire wall for EVER, I caved in to what will be safer and went all steel vs steel w/the carbon fiber inserts. I cut new main panels, updated the stamping dies as needed and ended up with what you see on the driver side. Passenger side still in progress.
This design still allows me to add the carbon inserts although now they're just for some visual appeal, mostly hidden though they will be.
And yes, this makes a far stiffer panel and a bit heavier panel but again, I think this is a better, more structurally sound way to go.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Awesome progress, if you want the "look" of CF you could always do a vinyl wrap on those inserts. I personally think even just a complimentary paint color would make them pop a bit.
The passenger side main panel is fit and ready to go. Here, the driver side is bonded, Cleco'd and curing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Detail shots of the door bar trim. These were fiddly little pieces to make but they turned out nicely.
Tomorrow I'll bond in the passenger side and the door bar trim pieces and with that, the fire wall will be all but complete. After all this time and I multiple iterations, I can't hardly believe it!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Amazing work as always. How did you avoid bonding in the Cleco's?
Never mind...went back and read the previous posts. Not bonding where the cleco's are. Is this going to be possible for the new back panels?
Great work as always Chris. The bonding os such a great idea.
Just amazing work. This is an epic build.
I had some scrap carbon fiber so thought I'd see how I could do trimming it to fit the recesses. I figured I could use the male component of the stamping die as a template.
I clamped the carbon to the die, trimmed it then used 80 grit sanding pad on an angle grinder to take it to the final size. That worked like a charm and took like 20 seconds!
This piece is about 2X thicker than I'd use so the "real" piece will sit better in the recess.
But a successful proof of concept, so I know I'm good to go on the dog house cover, and these main panels, should I opt to go this way.
One thing to remember is to cut and finish each piece of carbon so the weave sits at the same angle across all the pieces and looks like the metal was placed over a single piece. Shouldn't be hard to do, I just need to remember and do it!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks good as always.
Riveting all the holes in the firewall, I do not envy you.
Pardon me, my car and I are having a bonding moment...
Just an example of how much adhesive there is to deal with in terms of the Clecos. Here you can see the "next hole" is cleaned but the following one isn't.
And note that as you add the next Cleco, the panels pull together and the adhesive spooges out, which is what the directions say you're looking for, so that's a good thing.
Plus, you end up having to recheck and reclean the previous couple Clecos. Fun all around!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Only other person that says "Spooge"
I'm sure you're getting tired of seeing this fire wall stuff so let's call this the final one, because... it's done!
Presenting one custom fire wall, ready for the paint shop!
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's a Beauty Clark
HOORAY! Looks really good!
Was worth the effort!
John
it also hides one out of character feature.........................a sqaure corner....I know you are testing us
Attached image(s)
Thanks for the compliments, everyone. It certainly was a looooooooong time coming so my thanks to y'all for your patience while I worked through all that!
And now on to the next little project: a fixed roof!
I want to try building a steel frame and bonding on a carbon fiber skin. I want it to look stock, as though it could be removed, not like the 916 with the drip rails and being obviously fully integrated with the windshield frame.
So... today I started on two of the components: the mold for the skin and what I'm calling the window seal rails.
First the mold. Since I want it to look stock, I can use a stock top to make the mold. I plan to paint the roof (probably black) so I don't need to have everything all perfect with the mold.
I had a smoothed top and I hit it with 1500 wet sand, just to tidy it up a bit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Once it was all dry, it's time for a few coats of mold release wax.
Once that's done, on goes a layer of PVA. Some folks spray this on but I've had just fine results wiping it on with a paper towel. I pour a bunch on and wipe it evenly over the entire surface.
Essentially, the PVA forms a very thin layer that prevents the layup from actually touching the part.
The only really critical part is that you don't touch it once it starts to dry, else you can peel it off.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the top waxed and with the PVA dried. Shiny is what you want as this is what will determine the finish of the inside of the mold.
Again, not that critical for my project since the skin will end up being painted but the better things are at this point, the better the part that comes out of the mold.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with the first layers of fiberglass. I use a really lightweight cloth for the first couple layers as it drapes more easily and better conforms to any of the fiddly compound shaped areas, like the front corner of the drip channel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The other component I started on was the driver side window seal rail. I cut and bent up a length of 18ga and went to work with the stretcher.
Stretch, stretch, compare to the edge of the top, oops, too much. Shrink, shrink, compare again... you know the drill.
About 387 trips between the stretcher and the car later and I'm almost there!
Yes, I know I have to add material to the top of the targa bar to account for the dimension of the seals and other roof elements.
My plan is to get a set of window seals attached to these rails then position the assembly so the seals are in the correct location. Once that's done, I weld in the rails. I'll lay up the roof skin and once I have that, I can locate it on the car then "just"
connect things together.
Wish me luck!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Your skills, ingenuity, and dedication never ceases to amaze me Chris
Such a cool project!
Amen brother.
Working away on the window seal rails. Back and forth to the shrinker/stretcher and comparing to the targa top. The surfaces where the seals mount need to be level with each other. This is a good thing in that when I need to position the rails for install, I can simply clamp them to a couple of square tubes that span the width of the car and I'm guaranteed they'll be aligned.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the "splash mold" for the roof skin, getting a bit of solar cure! You can see through it because it's only a few layers thick in most places. You can see I added a few pieces of core mat and layed up over some bent sheet metal to help stiffen things up.
This mold is only going to be used once and the part I'm making needn't be perfect so I did this about as quick and dirty as I could. If it turns out I need a higher quality mold, it's easy enough to make another.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
One for @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 : The curvy template tool put to use, once again!
Rough measurements suggest this amount of roll suits the entire X brace; both the "side bars" that tie the targa bar to the windshield, as well as the X brace.
In my design, the skin is really only serving to close things up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Love that tool
Is the bar design going to protrude into the "helmet" space at all?
Rough fitting the first side rail bar. At the front, I'll make two small plates - one for each side of the tube that welds to the upper and lower lips of the windshield frame and then to the tube.
I still have some trimming/fitting of the notch at the rear to be sure the tube fits under the roof skin.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Oooh that's sexy.....
Hmm....wrong thread.
That 914 will go down the road like a solid billet of aluminum. That car is going to be wicked fun.
I like the solution for the roof structure. The bars going corner to corner can become a bit of a head banger. Suggestion would be shallow channel and maybe lots of dimple dies. Or stamped panel that follows the theme of the firewall with exposed carbon sections.
Factory GT lids just had a small raised section. I did one of these once, bonded the top to a metal cross section and DOM sides rails like you have. I found that the top got really heavy really quick, and I ditched it. Started thinking steel skin - thus the 944 section and manual latches for the sun roof. Proven design, and could be opened to vent the car during runs.
BTW, I have that roof section and great 944 manual sunroof if you need it. Also have a Ford GT 3rd brake light that needs a good home whilst you're cutting.
Change of plan #1: I've decided to bond on a gutted stock roof. This solution comes complete with seal rails already in the correct spot and a virtual guarantee that it'll look stock to all but the most attentive observers.
Plus it saves me time fabbing the roof skin.
I'm running early doors so I went with an early roof as I understand mismatching early/late doors and roofs = issues with the window-to-roof seals.
I'm curious in that, near as I can tell from places like 914 Rubber, the available replacement seals are all "late style". Is it the shape of the seal channel or something?
Anyone know the details on this?
But for now: I thought our roofs were fiberglass. I didn't know they had a core in the header! This is my "learn something new everyday" item for today.
Anyway, here I've clearanced the header for the side bars. I'll add a couple layers of fiberglass over these areas.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I also quickly realized that running the stock roof meant I'd need to move the side bars inward a bit to clear the inner portion of the roof. So I did that and ended up with what I think is a nice fit.
The side bars sit up in the roof such that there's no head/helmet issue at all.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One impact of this design approach is that without the windshield-to-roof seal, the roof is able to slide forward about 1/4". This is the "attentive observer" item mentioned earlier.
I used some ratchet straps to help hold the roof in it's new forward location. As mentioned, I plan to paint the roof black so this is sorta what it'll look like once it's bonded on.
I plan to seal the joint but leave this area looking as much like this as possible. I won't try and fill that joint but rather leverage the bonding adhesive and perhaps a tiny amount of sealer to prevent leaking. Ideally, the roof will still look as though it can be removed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's a bit hard to see but one other area that will need a bit of fab is across the rear of the targa bar to the roof. With the seal that normally fits there now gone, there's a gap. I'll create a piece that welds to the targa bar and has some sort of flange to which the roof will bond.
On to the X-braces!
Attached thumbnail(s)
In looking at that last pic, I realized I'm only a couple days away from permanently removing the door braces! Boy, oh boy, talk about a MAJOR milestone...
Initial fitting of the outer rail-to-windshield plates. Both sides are tacked in, ready for final trimming and welding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I need to figure out how I want to close up the gap at the back of the targa bar so I started on a piece to help me get a feel for the shape I'll need.
I used a piece of 20ga, bent it to 90 degrees then went at it with the shrinker/stretcher.
And of course it curves both directions... But this was either an easy piece or I'm getting faster at working metal. It only took about 15 mins to get to this point.
And the clamps aren't adding much pressure, just holding things in place. The piece sits almost perfectly on the targa bar.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Jesus, I love this build.
Wow thats a major design change! Gives it more of a sleeper look than an outlaw or 916 look.
Certainly be much faster than making a roof! Im curious. Are you going to make a couple of wind holes in the rear of the top to allow for some pressure relief while the windows are down?
I've always wondered if people with GOOD seals had that issue.
@Tygboy Chris you ever think about sectioning two tops and then bonding them to the inner structure. That extra 1/4" or so would not be noticed by most, and would look completely stealth.
I sent you a PM on th trade.
Here's the other end of the "attentive observer" item: this shows the change in the roof's rear overhang, given the shift forward due to the missing front seal.
I was worried it might be too obvious and look wonky but I think this will work fine.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 - I can live with this and forgo the sectioning of the roof! That would be a bunch of work...
Attached thumbnail(s)
maybe we should all be cutting ours down.
A bit of roll bending, measuring as carefully as possible, notching and fitting.
I'm currently doing this work by myself so having the car on the rotisserie makes a HUGE difference. It would have been WAY more difficult without it.
And remember, the rear end of those side rail bars is notched. This pic makes it look like they're sitting fully on top of the targa bar.
Attached thumbnail(s)
You couldn't really see the roll bend in that last pic. Here it is with the roof on and you can see the bar tucks nicely up into the curve of the roof. I shouldn't have any interference issues but I'll test sit/fit ahead of welding anything in.
Worst case, I can use a bit smaller diameter tubing and/or offset the notch to move the bar up til it just touches the roof.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Make sure to wear your helmet
Mine just about touches the roof...
I took my trim off, shortened the roof 1 inch, and re contoured the back edge, adding a curve...redrum
Attached image(s)
Good to see you this week, Chris!
As usual, your fab work looks fab. Thing is, this setup—while undoubtedly strong—has me worried about your safety. Wouldn't take much give in a set of seatbelts for a skull to connect with that steel bar—and I don't think it would take all that much to seriously stiffen the 914 via this concept. Would flat bars or something similar work? Or maybe a bar across the windshield header and a single or double bar in the center of the top? Just thinking out loud while you are at this point (so feel free to ignore!).
Best,
Anyway you could de-skin a Frunk lid and a trunk lid and section and piece together a viable/factory looking support using the factory stamped reinforcement channels?
I quickly gave up on trying to make the X-brace from one piece. Bending the flanges was really time consuming and didn't work as well as I'd have hoped, particularly in the corners of the X. There would be a bit of welding and metal finishing, just to make it look OK in that area. In the end, I think I can get a better result using multiple pieces.
So, I cut and bent up some 18 ga, then added the dimples. The lower is one piece, the upper is actually two short pieces. Better use of material...
Lots of shaping left to go but you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The fun part is that I need to stretch both flanges the same amount to get it to curve and match the inside of the roof skin, but not twist to one side or the other. I started with one of the short pieces. It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it might have been.
Here's the 'before and after" shot.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the piece as it fits approximately where it needs to live. Lots more to do but getting there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Would you stop coming up with design elements that I love so much?
Seriously, such a good idea.
Today was fabbing the pieces needed to support the roof above the targa bar. These are needed to fill the gap that's created when the seals are removed. They are critical in that sizing them determines where the roof sits and sets the window seal angle.
Here's what I ended up with - a little channel that will weld to the targa bar and to which the roof will bond.
The channel's open front will be welded closed and the rear will be sealed by the panel that closes the gap across the width of the roof and the targa bar.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I worked on shaping the remaining pieces of the X-brace channel. Still a bit of fine tuning but it turned out pretty well so I started in on where, exactly, the brace components will sit. There's some flexibility in where the ends sit.
As John Mayall sang, I have a little bit of "room to move"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLp0AsKXMEs
Really, it's about positioning the X-brace so it sits close, but no too close, to the underside of the roof.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That car has a real “Jazz Blues Fusion “ vibe ✌️
Today's work was to remake the pieces that sit at the outside edge of the targa bar. I wasn't paying attention and the first version didn't match the angle of the sail panel. These do. Also note that the top of these pieces need to align with part of the roof where the seals would usually mount. A bit of what looks like a wonky angle but that's what the roof said it needed and now it sits flush against these. It should work fine as the bonding surface.
I went ahead and tacked them into place. Things can move around a bit and I REALLY need to nail the exact height to be sure the window seals sit where they need to sit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I hadn't thought about it when I saw the first picture but that really does look much nicer.
Is bonding on a stock roof really what I want to do? It just seems too easy and not in keeping with the vibe of car.
I had an idea for a different approach: A steel (916-like roof frame with drip rails) say 4" wide on the sides, with a bonded carbon "center" panel.
Anyway, I broke out the English wheel to see if I could pull it off. Of all the metal shaping things, wheeling compound curves is the hardest for me.
This piece has a bit more to go but I think I can make this design work. I'll invest a couple more days and see if I can achieve (close enough) symmetry on both sides.
If so, it'll likely be a go!
Wish me luck...
Attached thumbnail(s)
You Go ... Man.....lost in space....March On..... I always wanted rain gutter too....modern cars pain in thecass,,you gotta buy a stick on deflector/ gutter...
Ha, I shoulda started a pool to see how long the fiberglass would last.
I hope you know you can never stop fabricating as I live my metal life vicariously through you.
Keep on Keepin on
That looks amazing! Tell me why does that car need rain gutters?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19266 - I doubt anyone would take a bet that implied I WOULDN'T change my plans so I'm pretty sure your vicarious metal life is safe for a while...
Today was a LOT of looking, measuring, head scratching and only a little actual work.
It all getting a little more complicated than I initially expected, but then that's really not a surprise. The Devil is in the details, as we all know. Hey, who you laughing at, mofo?
Anyway, I wasn't making any real progress with that side panel because other than the front corner of the windshield pillar, there are no other reference points to fit it. So my new plan of attack is to work from the outside in. Meaning, first get the drip rails and rear of roof "closing panel" on the car. These pieces will set the overall width and length, as well as square things to the chassis. Then it'a a matter of shaping and fitting the steel side and rear pieces into this frame.
OK then. Here's the new rear "closing panel". It will need to be trimmed to height and have a return added to which the roof will fasten. It's encouraging when the fit turns out so nicely.
Attached thumbnail(s)
suggestion as I had a lot of time thinking about this one. I Planned on putting a flange on the top Lou, nd then bonding the steel 944 top onto the flange, and then crimping the skin over the rear upper flange.
Love the idea, glad your doing it your way.
I suppose now would be a bad time to say I just remembered something about a 944 roof section offering a very viable option for putting a steel roof on a 914?
Yes they do, and I have a section I would ship to you. With a great sunroof.
I fabbed my first go at the drip rail. I used 16ga as I wanted something thicker than 18. I'm hoping I can put a bit of a radius on the edge.
Obviously, there's a LOT more work but overall, the project seems to be coming along pretty well. Not that I'm counting the chickens, mind you.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The pieces are only sitting in place, being held by a few magnets, and they have only been very roughly trimmed so don't judge the quality of the fit just yet!
Again, LOTS more to go but it's at least starting to show what it'll look like.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I simply have to get better at thinking ahead... This time, it was the fact that the window seal needs more width that I allowed, given the position it sits in. Since the edge of the roof has a curve to it and the window is straight (tilted in a bit, but straight), the seal channel has a bit of curve, as well. My earlier piece didn't allow the seal to sit where it needs to be.
So, a wider one it is!
Attached thumbnail(s)
On this latest version, the height of the side of the rail looks too tall to me so I'll trim it a bit.
Also, I'm still working out how I want to have the drip rail die into the windshield post. I kinda like the way it's sitting now and how it starts inboard from the edge of the pillar.
We'll see.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One fiddly thing is going to be what I think of as the "intermediate" rail. This is just a test with a piece of scrap but you see what it needs to do:
- weld to the drip rail's horizontal surface
- provide an angled surface for the roof skin to attach to and tie the skin to the drip rail.
I want to keep the drip channel pretty narrow, which doesn't leave a lot of horizontal surface on the intermediate rail to weld to the drip rail.
This one should be fun.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Outstanding work,
Ooooof. My head is starting to hurt.
In looking at various 916/916 replica roofs, it appears they move the drip rail inboard by frenching it into the windshield pillar, then reshape the outside edges of the roof's curve, either subtly or dramatically - see pics for a couple versions.
In any case, it seems the reason is to retain the original width of the roof.
Do I care/will it look "off" if my roof is a bit wider than stock?
If you need me, I'll be in the shop thinking about options. And just a heads up: If I don't come up with something I feel I can accomplish (well) in some sort of reasonable time frame, I may just abandon the fixed roof in an effort to actually get this car "done".
Attached image(s)
Another day with far more thinking than doing. Probably an approach I should use more!
A big thanks to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 , who was kind enough to take a couple calls from me and allow me to pick his brain re: his experience with these steel roofs. He helped clarify a major issue I was stuck on.
With this improved understanding, I went after what I've come to call "the dreaded rear corner". This is where virtually every piece ends up intersecting.
I did my best to channel the Beatles "Come Together" and actually, it seemed to work out!
Note that the drip rail is a practice piece and will be remade, now that I've determined all the dimensions. But here it is with the drip rail/seal mount surface and the rear closing panel sitting in place. I also installed the targa stainless trim to be sure I fully understand the way everything fits/looks.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, I went after the horizontal return/overhang that will support the rear of the roof skin. It follows the shape of the closing panel and will then be welded to the drip rail.
Trimming remains to be done but things did "come together"! I think I'm liking this.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Lookin' good! I don't know if this is true or not, but I remember hearing that the windshield frame to body joint wasn't that strong. Maybe grab the top of the window frame and try pushing it fore and aft. Hopefully what I heard was wrong.
But in the end I don't think it is much of an issue. I spent a lot of time on this one
, then I said F'it, grabbed the 944 roof I had sitting on the floor, and a spare A pillar I bought. and started
The 944 and the 914 have the exact same gauge metal in the A pillar. The inner design is slightly different, but not to the point it bugged me. Three pieces welded together with slightly different inner profile. In the end, I thought about making pieces like what was in the Jon Lowe's #40 tribute 914. I spent some serious time around that car and build. And this is what I came up with. There was a 914 already converted with the 944 roof section. It was running around and driving. I have not heard a thing about A pilar issues, and still have not. And well the people who drove it, said it made a huge difference. So I went with the stop over thinking this shit and moved on to lets weld more into the car.
The difference between a GT top and a skinned top is the fact that one is bolted in 4 places, still allows flex to be transferred down the A pillar. And the other is a fully welded top. Every section of the skin becomes its own triangulation point. Overall it would be much stronger, while possibly being lighter.
Thus the reason the factory welded on the top to the 916 making it a true coupe. If the factory continued racing development of the 914 chassis, the 916 should have been the platform to go with. It just made that much more sense. Thus the Boxster and Cayman. I will take a Cayman everyday over the Boxster. Response is so much better.
Now back to the build
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Andy, I believe I'll be OK without additional stiffening of the A-pillars. As Stephen @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 points out, others have used a "roof only" approach and nothing seems to have gone wrong. Fingers crossed!
Today was making progress on the X-brace. First I tacked in the targa-to-windshield bars. Boy, just doing that made a huge difference in locking the windshield in place. And that's just with a few tacks!
Then it was working out the corner locations for the main brace component. I ran a center line string so I could use it to center the middle speed hole.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I need it to fit on the bars in such a way that it has the desired clearance to the inner roof skin. I measured from the underside of the bar to the roof, then subtracted the height of the brace plus the amount of clearance I want for the foam/bonding agent. And of course it's a different dimension at the rear than at the front. What fun would it be if it wasn't?
Then it was the "fit, trim, check, trim, fit, check, repeat, repeat, repeat..." ad infinitum until it it was where I wanted it. Then I tacked it in.
WAAAAY more head clearance than that initial 1.25 cross member tube, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 !
And I was able to achieve a pretty even gap across the curve of the roof.
On to fitting the other two pieces.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Niiiiiiiiiice work, Chris!!
I think the rain drop is too vertical, I think it needs to be flares out at more of an angle. Also it still might be too tall but that'll be easier to determine with the skin on.
At least this is in comparison to the 916 images.
Still looks damn amazing.
How much would it take to build up maybe an additional "V" brace along the inner A piller out of say 14ga? That would do a lot for strength, even just for chassis twist alone. You probably need to hog out some of the a pillar trim but that's the fun stuff (hidden secrets).
Initial location/fit/line up for trimming of the other brace pieces.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Passenger front fit and tacked in, then roof test fit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The X-brace is fit and tacked in!
I have one area on the underside, rear part of the roof that needs to be trimmed for everything to clear and I'll be ready to final weld this in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking forward to seeing a composite skin on that roof. Structurally it looks amazing.
“Top” work Chris!
Cheers
I'm adding an "end cap" to each of the corner areas of the X-brace. The underside of the roof rolls over and nearly contacts the upper edge of the X-brace so these caps barely protrude above that level and essentially contact the roof, making them a nice surface to which that area of the roof can be bonded. Plus, these nicely tie the ends of the X-brace to the side bars.
Next, I need to get the carbon fiber roof panel and position it on the car. That will allow me to measure and fab these caps for the rest of the X-brace such that they juuuuust contact the under side of the roof and serve as additional bonding surfaces.
This whole fixed roof effort seems to be going to plan, at least so far. But keen eyes will notice the main side bars are still only tacked in. If it all goes south, I can remove the entire structure and run a stock, removable roof set up.
Fingers crossed it doesn't go that way...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Just amazing!
I really hope to see this car in person one day.
Here's the freshly installed front corner cap. Pretty much the same on both sides so I'll spare the server the extra pic...
I have a ways to go on my TIG welding but these won't be visible. So long as they're strong.
And yes, I went back and fully welded the gaps at the corner, just didn't take a pic.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Some one had to say it. And trust me I understand if it gets to that, but would prefer if you on. It is hard when life gets in the way, and you lose the vision you had for the project.
or cheaper as it narrows the focus from people who would not want this sort of thing. The value is only valued by a few. I am sure this would be a short list of us, who would be willing to pony up for such awesomeness as you see in this car.
The downside is that this car crosses lots of other car centric interest areas. Its a custom, its a hotrod, its a Porsche, its a 914, and its a piece of art if your into metal art.
But what I said and I say it again. Chris finish this build, I know how hard it is even when it is the right decision to not finished project can haunt you for years. That being said do this for you, your the only one you need to make happy here. Build it for you, build it because you want to, then drive it and if you hate it, let it go. Experience speaking here.
When I was 14 I picked up a 1965 Jeep CJ-5 that was in pieces out of a guys garage. He bought everything new, including a new Fiberglass body. I spent 2 years rebuilding the Jeep, and when I turned 16 I was able to drive it on the street. I learned to weld and fabricate on this Jeep, I learned to rebuild drive lines brakes, everything. It was mine I put my heart and soul into it. I drove it down the driveway, and onto the street went 1000 feet, turned around in the neighbors driveway and drove it back home, and put it in the garage. It sat for 10 years, and I never drove it, I sold it finally to a friend moving to Colorado, where it lived a great life. And Glad that CJ-5 lived its proper life. But it would not have been sitting in a garage in Ohio.
I decided to work on something that is required to get the car running: radiator hoses!
As mentioned a while back, I'm going to run the hoses under the car in the floor "channels". It proven to work, etc, etc.
That said, I didn't want to use the typical plumber style hose routing clamp, as pictured here. Nothing wrong with them, they just don't appeal to me.
In particular, I didn't like the way they look like they could "unfold" at the 90 degree bend. Yes, I know they are shaped in such a way as to add cross section to combat that, but still.
So, I came up with an idea I thought might work...
Attached image(s)
First, I fabbed up this prototype (fancy word for "practice piece" ) to zero in on the critical dimensions.
Attached image(s)
Once I worked out the needed dimensions, I figured I may as well add some style points so it's off to the CAD/plasma system.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, using a piece of scrap tube that's happily the same size as the radiator hose, I used the brake to bend the part to this radius, then added a 90-ish for the mounting area.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the part I think works better than the plumbers clamp:
The length I used wraps around far enough that the end is trapped by the ramp in the floor channel. That should serve as a support and help prevent it from unfolding.
At least I think so...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with the hose in place.
The other thing I like about this "single bolt attachment point" design, as well as the plumber design, is that if I run over anything that grabs the clamp, it's highly likely it would bend open. A fastener on both sides would mean the clamp would have to break/rip or else other areas of the floor would suffer damage.
I'll noodle on this a while and if I convince myself the design "works", it's off to make the rest of them.
Worst case, if the 90 seems too weak, I can weld in a small triangle support at that location. We'll see.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Chris if you have the clearance I would dip these in a rubber coating. Plasta-dip or similar to help reduce the possibility to chaff the rubber hose. Or even a rubber pad glued to it after you make it. I know long shot, but it is just the engineer in me saying I see a potential issue.
BTW, I like the style points.
If using pasta-Dip "lol love auto-correct" style coating adding a few holes down each side will help allow it to bond to the part better.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 Stephen - Funny, as I was working with the first one, I thought, "Hmmm, I should dip these in that plier handle liquid stuff..."
Great minds...
And I figured I'd forge ahead into full production!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks nice! Curious Chris why you didnt hard mount say a stainless piece of pipe bent to fit?
So what is the price for a set? LS in waiting
I find the design most logical
I'm mounting the clamps using Rivnuts and after trial mounting the first clamp, I didn't like the way the top of the Rivnut caused the clamp to sit a tiny bit proud of of the surface of the floor.
So I used a couple of different sized washers as a quick and dirty male/female die set then employed the trusty press to create a depression that just clears the top part of the Rivnut.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The first two done!
And you can see that the left one's "Rivnut clearance dome" is sorta messy. That was the first one I did and the washer set I used created too deep a depression.
So I did the best I could to hammer it back to flat, then gave it a do-over.
Not the prettiest, but as Edd says, "with a lick of paint", it should do just fine.
To quote @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 "if anyone says anything about it, I'll call them a dick..."
And best of all, the hose seems well supported so I'm feeling good about this approach. Onward to the rest of them!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And.... done! Well, almost. I'm going to relocate the Rivnut for the upper, left clamp. I wrongly mounted it on the small peak in that area of the floor. The clamps mount noticeably firmer when they are on a full flat.
Anyway, here are things with the front of the hoses connected to the hard lines, too.
I think this clamp design is going to work.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking great Chris.
With my current focus seemingly "all things radiator", I went back to thinking about venting. I really don't want to open up the fenders so I figured I'd better prove out the hood vent, one way or the other.
No offense to the approach of "cut the front and sides then bend down the flap to create the vent". I just wanted something different from that so it was back to CAD to see what I could come up with.
The first pic is a piece I made just to get a REALLY rough idea of what things might look like.
The CAD drawing is what I'm going to cut later today. Note the vents remain attached to the frame via those small-ish connections on each side. The vents will be twisted at those points and set to the proper angle.
The small notches at the front edge of the vents is where a piece will fit in that locks them to the desired angle and adds stability.
The whole contraption will attach to the underside of the hood.
Let's see how this works out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Those hose clamps are next level parts. I dig.
I'll be following your hood mod and radiator install for sure. Every time I look at the holes I cut in my fender wells I cry a little. (I did keep the sheet metal so I could more easily reverse my decision)
Chris you are an inspiration. The quality of your work and your creativity are top level.
I'm just in awe of your work as usual. That plumbing solution is incredible. Only thing is... what's the deal with that buggered rivnut?
A few thoughts having gone through a few iterations of this.
Consider moving the bend points further up the vane. You don't need to have much, if any of it sticking up above the hood: air flow from the front will still find most of the face due to rake of the hood.
Use large radii on the twisted points to reduce tendency to tear.
Be aware of the crown of the hood and where that will put the trailing (upper) edge of the vanes. With the curvature in the direction you have it, the trailing edge of each vane will be proud of the hood on either end and low in the middle.
This is what I am running, with the trailing edge of each vane the same height from the hood, uniformly 3/16" higher than the top of the surrounding frame. That required I run the vane curvature in the opposite direction from what you are.
Latest design, incorporating @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13907 's pointers.
I agree with @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=6222 and have the same concerns about if it'll look "right".
My thinking on the overall shape?
- the vent's leading edge radius matches the hood's front and rear edge radii
- the vent's trailing edge curve matches the side-to-side curve across the hood
- the narrow-at-the-front to wide rear matches the under hood support structure, giving me the largest air exit I can fit in that area of the hood.
I'll cut this one and see what I think.
Attached thumbnail(s)
more fuel
Attached image(s)
Hmmm. I think I like it better than the earlier one with the rear edge that curved in parallel with the front.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It really takes on a totally different look once the vanes are tipped.
Now to cut the opening in the hood. And before you give me a hard time about sacrificing a hood, the one I'm using for this was in an accident that bent its support structure, it's got a bunch of filler on it and it has rot in a number of places.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks good!!!
Will you be welding it in place or bolting it to the hood?
al-u-mini-um
Make it so.
Jean Luc
Chris, if you just borrowed a cryo chamber and put the plasma table and hood in it for 6 hours before the cutting began you'd be good!
Previous version (top) vs latest. The latest has:
- wider frame dimensions because the previous frame looked a bit "light"
- trailing edge radius flipped. This is the element that's giving me the most trouble. I'm struggling with what works best with the 914's design elements. I think I like this better but it may be that a simple, straight line is the way to go...
- leading edge radius modified to better match the hood leading edge
- fastener/rivet holes
This whole "design" thing is soooo time consuming. I second guess every change.
And the whole "I have to make it and see it on the car" isn't helping!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I always kind of liked what byndbad914 did with his hood vents. They are somewhat flush mounted (really lower mounts with rivets, but frameless). A bit more agressive than yours though.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=204965
http://www.negativereinforcementracing.com/update.htm
I like that but would make the louvers invade the trunk instead of being proud of the hood if they would still allow the hot air to escape.
Test V1. The good news is this hood was worse than I thought! LOTS of filler and other damage so I don't feel bad about cutting it up.
So, regarding Function and Form:
Does this look like it'll work to vent the radiator? Certainly.
Do I like it how it looks? I don't know.
I need to look at it for a few days.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I do like the way the rivets on the vent tie in with the fire wall rivets. And the angles/corners seem to work well together, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Better perspective on the "will it work?" aspect. Essentially a giant hole. OK, so really two medium holes...
I may add some ducting to help it flow as efficiently as possible.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Initial draft of the inner vent strake. I need to prove out my math and determine where to add the mounting tabs but this is where I started. Total guess work, but what else is new?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fit strake slot A into vent 1's slot A... A little fiddling to get everything to line up and things lock into place.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I think this will look pretty cool. Maybe do the strakes in a contrasting color? We'll see.
On to fabbing the outers.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Work of art
And on the car.
As always, I see a couple things I need to change and a couple I want to change.
A few updates to the CAD file and I'll cut all new pieces, including the main panel.
I hate to toss this one as it really is a usable piece so if anyone wants it, as is, PM me. Shipping costs only from 94952.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is coming along quite nicely especially once those strakes are installed. Compound angles like that throw my brain for a loop so that's very impressive.
How would you feel about moving them outward towards the edges and adding a third strake in the center?
P.S. I'm tempted to take that one off your hands to put on my stock -4 just cause it looks so cool
I was thinking the same thing. That is such a great looking piece ( ) that I was thinking how cool it would look on the garage wall in the event I ever got another 914 and ran a front oil cooler or radiator.
Thanks Chris. I am quite sure your part would be the nicest part of the car.
pm sent
Saweet!
Tyga King
So cool looking vents, I'm waiting for the next stage...moving>variable pitch based on temp/speed
Here's the "Frumunda" vent test. It mounts 'from under'... get it? I crack myself up... (I'm blaming it on inhaling too much plasma fume...)
I had a scrap of al-u-mini-um so cut a 1/2 vent, just to see how it'd turn out.
Anyway, it really changes the look. "Cleaner", IMHO but I do like rivets so we'll have to look at it a while and see.
And yes, that hood opening is horrid. Please don't give me a hard time. It was always going to be throw away and when I cut it, I hadn't even thought about an underneath mounting approach.
I promise I'll do it nicely on the hood I use.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the Aussie version!!!
Have you tried matching the rear hood corners or even a little more swept? To me that adds an element of looking fast while it is just sitting there
My vote is for the louvers below the sheetmetal.
As always, I continue to me awed by your fabrication work.
I like it better with the louvers under the hood and I also would be interested to see what it might look like if you tried to match the curve of the rear of the hood. Regardless of how you end up doing this, we all know it is going to be stunning and first-rate work.
Thanks for the feedback, guys! I do like that underneath look but I'm going to think on it a while.
In the meantime, since I had the plasma fired up, I figured I work on the airbox a little bit.
I cut the pieces that sit under the stacks a number of months ago and today, I decided I'd make the center panel and get it riveted on.
As usual, I'm making this up as I go along and worst case, it's good practice for future work. I may remake this in aluminum or maybe in carbon. Or I may run this steel version. Talk about 1st world issues...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And installed...
Now to work out the sides and top.
I'm thinking I'll try and make it so the top actually lives on the engine lid so when the lid is opened, the induction system will be visible.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Anyway to force some air into that area?
I seem to remember various versions of the GT40 having some air ducts entering from the sides.
My car has some naca ducts on the side which I plan to run hose to an air box.
How about a clear box or roof over you intakes?
Time to work on something needed to get this thing on the road: brakes!
With the Tilton pedals and dual brake master cylinders, I have to fab the lines. I started with the fronts.
I purchased a roll of brake line tubing and splurged on this cool tubing straightener.
Just run the line back and forth a few times and BOOM! The line, she is straight!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Always cool new toys to see here. I love it!
You could have made your own tube straightener for less than 20 dollars with all your cool tools. I built one with just a drill and a vice.
I put the naca ducts in the rockers which flare out so it will be a high pressure area.
Ring bros. Camaro
Attached image(s)
Another fiddly set of things to make. This morning, it was the hydraulic clutch hard line from the firewall bulkhead to a yet-to-be-determined spot up near the suspension tower.
I REALLY like those tubing clips. They are from a company called Notchead. Available from Summit in all the common sizes. Very tidy, IMO.
I did my best to match all the curves. A bit more fine tuning but it's coming along.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris - stunning work as always - keep posting!!
A minor observation with the clutch tubing run: by following the structural curves, you just put a high spot in the middle of the run (for air bubbles to collect...)? Might want to rethink that if you get bleeding woes / sponginess....
- Tony
Upper is a new design vs what I already made.
More 914-ish? Certainly less roundy.
Let's see how this one turns out.
Regardless, I'm pretty sure it'll be one of these.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Can you sweep the trailing corners a little bit more to match the trailing corners of the hood?
I like your second design better. I think it will look better with the curve on the aft end of the hood. On the first design the outside ends of the rear most vents looks to be sweeping forward slightly.
Sorry if it has already been asked...
What software are you using to design and plug-in cuts for your plasma table ?
Another for the tool whores: Eastwood flaring tool.
This thing is pretty awesome. It comes with the 45 degree set up but I have a combo of AN (37 degree) and DIN bubble flares throughout the car so I had to get the AN die set, too.
Anyone local to me that needs to make lines is welcome to borrow.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Rear brake lines mostly done. Lots of fun getting all the bends right and have the ends end up where they need to be! You don't have to look too closely to see where I could have done better.
I suspect all these will become practice pieces as I really got much better as I went. And now that I know where the tricky spots are, and where bend order matters, I think I can do a much tidier job. Not that you'll really be able to see much of this.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I spent a LOT of time finishing up the final TIGing on the last flare.
Certainly more time consuming than MIG but SOOOO much nicer, cleaner, quieter.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very nice. I can't wait to see that car in color.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael - You and me both!
I'm chipping away at all the little things I need to do ahead of sending it to media blasting and epoxy primer sealer. I have no idea what the current situation means to when that might happen.
I'm back to thinking I should put it all together, get it running then blow it apart for all the body and paint work. We'll see how fast I get to that point.
Speaking of the little things, I final mounted the door bar trim plates.
These couldn't be riveted on due to impossible access to the lower rivet locations.
(And yes, it was absolutely required those rivets be placed RIGHT THERE! )
So I ended up adding the rivets to the plates, then bonding them in place using the same structural adhesive as was used on the firewall panels.
I used hand shears to cut them at the bottom, twisted then open to fit around the bar, then TIG brazed and metal finished the cut. It's pretty neat how it now appears I planned ahead and added them before welding in the door bar.
Someday, I hope to be able to plan that well!
Anyway, I think I'll paint these plates and the door bars in the same color (black? Anthracite like the wheels?) and the rest of the interior metal in body color. I think a bit of contrast like that will look nice.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19266 Used the Master Cool to modify the PMB SS line kits on my 914-6, I mounted Alpha Front Calipers on it, and needed to shorten the line or something that required a new double flare. I had no issue, love that tool, does everything I asked of it. I use it for more than my Porsche work. Went with it over the Eastwood tool, as it has al the flaring dies I needed for my work, beyond break, and AN flaring.
I did lots of work on large equipment and trucks for our farm. Never let me down, in the shop or in the field.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 , Chris to bring this back to your thread great work as always, I will say seeing Gates hoses hanging down under the car, even with custom mounts just lowered it a bit for me. SS tubes ran down that huge center tunnel, with roll flared ends or better yet, all AN fittings.
I know I preach that its your build, but man, just seeing it........
Okay distract me with more fabrication quick, maybe I'll forget about it.
You know lots of 60s racers used frame tubing to transport, oil and water to various parts of the chassis.
Even in the 2000 Buell did it to make the cycle that much lighter.......
Okay sorry..... It is your build I will get off my high horse
Oh believe me they will be seen If I ever get to see this car, I will be crawling all over it.
I'll bring my own micro fiber to clean it up.
Hey Tygaboy I was thinking about your car today and the radiator hoses under the car and an image of some modern car undercarriages crossed my mind. Many of the high speed cruisers have a completely smooth undercarriage for aero and noise reduction. It occured to me if you run the hoses in the middle recess you could then fabricate a cover that runs the length. I am sure it would reduce drag and give you another 1/10th mph on the top end
Sinking to new lows, in terms of what others may find interesting:
I sliced up the factory Boxster clutch tube so I could use the part that attaches to the slave cylinder. I flared the other end and added a reducer so I can get from the factory tube size to the -3 (3/16) hard line.
I'm running a 7/8" clutch M/C. This is the same set up @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 runs and it works fine for him.
Anyone else running a Boxster S trans and if so, what did you use M/C, line size and connection to the slave cyl?
Sharp eyes will notice I "adjusted" the holes in that factory bracket so I could mount it in a slightly different spot and still use that cool little line clip.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I decided I needed to see the new vent design on the car.
"old" design in the upper pic, new one in the lower.
I think I like the new one better! The upper one has a "soft" look to it. The new one's slight backward slope on the rear edge, along with the straight-across vents, seems to better integrate with the 914's lines. At least to my eye.
I may need to add a bit more radius to the center rear edge. Again, I need to look at this a while.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Other views. Note that I haven't spent any time tuning the shape to get it to sit down better. Also, the opening in the hood is now too small and that's causing part of the vent to ride up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
No idea on what PMB used for their SS line kit. Just know it worked perfectly to do the task at hand.
I like the idea of the under body cover. Carbon Fiber I know Titanium, then if you drag it at speed it makes a wonderfully nice show for the people behind you.
Attached image(s)
I like the idea of more radius on the back edge. Make it mimic the back edge of the hood.
Great work as always.
I like the first (top) one better.
Tygaboy is not only a fantastic fabricator, but he has folk obsessing about his hose!
I cranked out a set of radiator hose clamps for Dwayne @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19266 .
Typical me; given these were the 9th - 16th time I've made these, they turned out better than the set on my car!
Attached thumbnail(s)
One of the joys of my build is when I start in on another area and realize, "Oh yeah. I totally forgot I'd have to figure something out to deal with this..."
Today it was the engine lid. Having cut away all the trunk sheet metal, I also lost the area where the engine lid latch goes.
I was tempted to fab a bracket that welded to the cross bar between the suspension towers but REALLY didn't want some wonky thing hanging out in space and, heaven forbid, spoiling the view of the induction system.
So... How about a Quik Latch on each side?
I have a few lids so I went ahead and gave it go. Location-wise, the cool thing is that all I need to do is add a suitable bracket for the attachment bolts on them there support bars, it should work just fine. And I'll run just one, or neither, of the lid springs so the latch location in the middle of the lid won't be an issue.
I'll likely add them to a GT lid and given everything will be black, these will all but disappear. Should be pretty tidy, IMHO.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Cardboard template, measure and draw it up in CAD, CAD to plasma, plasma to part.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. This table makes it feel like I'm cheating.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fold it up and see if it fits... Yep, that'll work! On to the other side.
And a test of these just holding the bracket in place suggests I'll need at least one of the lid springs. I'll tack them in and test tomorrow.
And, if I decided I needed the added security, I can replace these Quick Latch models with a locking version.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Glad to see you have a previous owner repair I have run into this on several cars.
Now for some sort of fancy solution, J-west makes a pretty nice replacement. I am sure you can fabricate a much better backer plate than a couple fender washers and nuts.
And yes the Quick-Latch is a great solution, I was planning on using them on my defunded build for the exact same part.
The engine lid latches look cool, but I’m trying to understand how they function.
Is it totally manual? Or is there a piece that I’m not seeing that flips the lid up?
Dammit Chris, it's always rabbit holes. Do I put a strut on the engine lid, or do I just make a lift off? (hint, the latter is fine)
Get this thing driving! Aargh. Can I come help with gruntwork? I want to see this thing drive before I die.
It took me two attempts but I got the brackets tacked in. The issue is that I didn't have every fastener cinched down enough and I ended up with enough misalignment that the latches didn't want to release without what I felt was too much force. I popped off the tacks and gave it another go. Par for my course...
You can see in the video that it does take a bit of effort, which I think is fine. Better that than popping open on their own!
So there you go, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2766 .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C48So7ukcC8
Nice quick video.
Might have to look into those as I too have lost the ability to use the factory hold down.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=87 . PM me your address, I have one I will send your way. Really should only need one of them.
Chris, will you be including heat and a/c?
If so what are your plans?
I made the formal decision to get this thing running and dialed in, then blow it apart for paint.
I dubbed today "Juxtaposition - Old Meets New" as I installed parts that I had done and waiting for like 3+ years. Old car, tired paint and all the new, shiny suspension porn!
Boy, what a difference working with clean, new stuff that bolts on without having to fab anything...
Anyway, here's the refurb'd front end with Turbo tie rods, Elephant spherical, misalignment bearings and bladed sway bar. I have to say, their stuff is beautiful.
And the triangular mill work goes nicely with the theme of the car.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Man that's some pretty stuff...... It's going to be on wheels very soon.
Here's a shot that shows the "blade" of the Elephant Quick Change bladed sway bar. The overall bar stiffness is easily and "quickly" adjusted by loosening the bolt on the rear face and rotating the blade. Horizontal is soft, vertical is firm. It's infinitely adjustable through that 90 degree range.
Note this is the "medium stiff" bar (.095 wall tube) vs their "heavy stiff (.120 wall).
Attached thumbnail(s)
And my favorite part! It's a really nice piece...
Attached thumbnail(s)
In case you are interested. My car has the cooling lines running through a custom cut center compartment. Here is a photo.
Elephant Racing QuickChange camber plates.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Raised spindles with the Elephant bump steer kit.
Getting there!
This is all in-process of being installed so yes, lots of loose fasteners and missing items.
BTW, the Elephant camber plates don't allow for the use of the standard metal dust protectors, hence the rubber gator.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22865 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19266 Yep, the "in the tunnel" routing is very tidy. As I've said, I have no room to accommodate routing in my tunnel and will be going with the "traditional" under body approach.
I couldn't resist a quick mock up!
These are standard Boxster calipers, not Boxster S. They work for Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 and his LS 914 and he sees nearly 170 at Road Atlanta...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And with the Ronal! 16X8 with 225s.
I love how these wheels look on this car!
Pardon my hillbilly attempt at simulating ride height.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I feel the most strange tingle
Beautiful
Forget paint. Run it as-is. The most super engineered rat rod on earth.
Killer stuff Chris!!!
That is an interesting sway bar!
I love those wheels as well! They look great with the 914s body lines.
A quick demo of the level of friction (or lack thereof!) with the Elephant Racing goodies.
And I'm right handed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2MOf52HIJg
But seriously, the suspension moves so smoothly. It's like it's floating in some sort of wonderful fluid. I can't wait to see how it feels on the road.
Agreed with the elephant stuff makes a super smooth suspension. Mine was so free that it caused issues with assembly. I had to use legs, hands, and jacks to get stuff done. No binding is super nice, glad to see they have keep it up.
Anything new?
Having withdrawal symptoms here
For those who may have noticed I had yet to final weld any of the roof structure to the car:
After looking at it and thinking about it for a couple weeks, I decided that a fixed roof doesn't make sense for this build. IMO, if I had done a regular full cage, then yes. But with no traditional front or rear hoop structure, or shoulder-ish cross bar, the idea of a fixed roof clashed with the "roadster cage" set up I currently have. I thought about ripping out what's there now and doing a full cage but that'd be going backwards a LONG ways. So no.
Perhaps on the next one...
Anyone want a "removable" hard top?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Well, I think it's now safe to say this. Was anyone else reminded of the General Lee when it was installed?
Now for the "repairs" to get it back to accept the standard seal. I need to patch in where I notched it for the side rails.
Here's the before on the passenger side and the after on the driver's.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'ma guessing there will be no sliding across the hood or hopping through the window to get in now?
Off the rotisserie and on the ground with its "big boy wheels" for the first time ever.
Being able to see it like this after all these months, I'm reminded how small these cars are. It helps to see it in a more assembled state to get a better feel for how it's going to look.
Ride height aside, I'm happy with how it's turning out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Bravo, that's gotta be a nice feeling.
That is looking mighty fine. I love those wheels, awesome with the flares.
They remind me of 917 style rims. Way to go Chris.
pmsent
WAHOOO!!!!
Big step there! Congrats!
:
Awesome! It is a car again, not just a bunch of metal! It looks really good!
How did I miss that? Chris that is a huge milestone when you can see it back on the ground. Have you decided if that is the hood venting you are going with?
Alright!
I like those sketches on the targa bar.
I dubbed today "Repurposed Friday".
With the car off the rotisserie, I can now get at the front panel to cut it for the radiator inlet.
But since I plan to keep the hood latch, I want to retain a section of the panel from below the latch, connected to the lower area. And I wanted to reinforce that area before cutting the openings.
A bent channel section of sheet metal would be best but that area has a lovely slight curve and making the needed piece would be fiddly.
What to do?
I've noticed that there are a lot if similarly curved pieces on these cars. I wonder if I can repurpose a part from somewhere else.
I had a trashed engine lid and noticed this wonderful, curved sheet metal channel!
Would it? Could it?
Slice, slice, shape, shape.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yep, that'll do it. Still a bit of final shaping but yet another interesting "looky there" moment.
So if anyone asks: Yes, you can use a trashed engine lid to make a hood latch support for your water-cooled conversion! And it's all Porsche metal so you gotta love that.
I need to order longer arms for my spot welder in order to reach in far enough so it'll be a few days before this get's welded in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I tacked on yesterday's support brace, doodled out a shape that I thought made sense and cut the main radiator openings.
Sharp eyes may have noticed I had drawn a couple other hole locations on the angled areas just outside where the main openings are.
To @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 's point, it's another unneeded mod but I always wanted to do it so...
Here's the before and after drilling the pilot holes.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I use a knock-out punch to cut the appropriate hole needed for the dimple die. I use a Harbor Freight hydraulic pump set up. It works wonderfully. The knock-out punch set as well as the dimple dies are from SWAG Off Road in Oregon. Great stuff!
Attached thumbnail(s)
With the holes punched, the same press is used to stamp the dimple.
Here you can see the amount of metal that gets moved to make the dimple.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Done and done. Stamping all four took maybe 20 minutes.
No, you'll never see these. Yes, I'll know they're there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
My take on a water-cooled front opening.
Maybe I'll work up a frame and add some grill work...
Attached thumbnail(s)
You have all the coolest toys.
Very clean!! I love it.
Thanks for all the nice words, guys.
And back to today's work: I should have waited until I was "done", before posting pics.
I drew up and cut a quick set of covers for the BUB mount holes as they would otherwise bleed off some air that should flow to the radiator.
If anyone wants a set of these covers, PM me. Yours for the cost of shipping from 94952. Well, OK. And you can buy me a coffee, should we ever meet!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Love the cut-out for the radiator and the extra dimple-die cutouts for additional airflow. What kind of screen or mesh covering are you going to use to protect the radiator? As low as our cars are everything on the road gets thrown at them.
Yesterday was all about the front. Today, the back. The drive train is back in and should stay in until this thing sees the road! It's been months since I saw this view.
On the down side:
Ugh...now to see what I can do to tidy up the wiring...
The fun part is that the Holley ECU comes with a wiring harness that expects the engine to be in the front of the car so almost all the connection points are "backwards". Hence the extra lengths everywhere, except where things are way too short and I have to use extensions...
I am not well practiced with wiring but I suspect I'm about to learn all about it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And for anyone running/considering running the Boxster S 6-speed, here's the axle angle you get when you move the drive train forward 1.5 inches, like I did. I'm still running the Renegade 1/2" spacers between the output flanges and the inner CV.
In all, I think I reduced the axle angle by about 1/2 of what it would otherwise have been.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow! That is a great shot with the engine and headers. I can't wait to see and hear that engine running.
OK @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18779 , mismatched fasteners bug me, too! I'm OK with the different sizes, as mentioned. But I'll sleep better tonight!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Work today was making the bulkhead-to-fuel rail lines and assembling other tunnel items.
Talk about non 914 stuff... Here's the Numeric shifter and my fancy shifter cables firewall pass through set up, compete with split grommets and cover plate.
As I'm putting things together, I realize I could never feel good about selling this car unless I created a shop manual!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris: One correction, sir. I actually use the larger 997 front calipers on the front of my car and Boxster S Front calipers on my rears. Not quite the same but close enough...
Tony
Master craftsman level work and build.
With the drive train in, I had to put it on the ground again and mess with the ride height.
I suspect I'm WAAAAY oversprung on the rear so I've posted a thread asking what torsion bars and rear spring rates other V8 folks are running. I'd like to see the rear about an inch lower.
But it's looking loads better than it did with no drive train in it!
I figured I'd also use this "on the ground" opportunity to do a home alignment, just to be sure everything is in range and there are no surprises, what with the work I did installing the Tangerine rear suspension pick up kit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 ) Chris - Are you shooting for about 1/2" higher in the rear than the front? Also....what is that under the cover with the Fuchs?
Chris - feel free to completely ignore this; this is your build and this just some food for thought, as I know you like to mull over multiple options on features. Also, I know how annoying it can get sometimes when people tell you how things "should be designed" on something that you've designed and crafted for yourself!
So that said, was thinking about your hood venting. How about considering an alternate route? Weld back the center panel that I know you kept; Then: move the vents to the sides of the hood, following the headlamp line up and back (to just before the fuel tank bulkhead). This follows and extends the natural line of the hood/headlight inset, and parallels the hood edge. Louvers set at an angle give a hint of Urquattro (fine European design), as well as directing the hot trunk air to follow the angled airflow around the base of the windshield.
When the lights are popped, the chaotic airflow around their rear sides may even help cooling..! Up close, the viewer gets a "peekaboo" effect on the fender inners with that gorgeous double curved, near spherical area beneath.
Am assuming the entire trunk will act as a plenum, unless you get into some wacky ducting. Anyway, just a thought, dodgy sketch follows which hopefully helps:
- Tony
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 - Tony - I REALLY like that design! It appeals to the "mine's different" vibe I hope to create with my build.
Now, I'm no aerodynamic engineer but I wonder if there's enough "alignment" between the radiator and those vents to end up with sufficient airflow. Plus, I think much of the rear of those is past the fuel tank bulkhead.
Mostly, it'd require I rebuild the hood's support structure to pull that off.
I'll take a look at those details tomorrow. But again:
I think that's the most cohesive looking hood vent set up I've seen! Thanks for putting in the effort to draw up the design and suggest it! I owe you one...
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony - ooooh! It just struck me: What if I made the vents part of the chassis and they stayed in place while the hood was narrowed so it opened without them?
I mean, if you're going to go for it, go ALL the way for it!
I dig that sketch there Tony.
Those vents look very appealing. Maybe with the radiator tilting at an acute angle relative to the hood would help and maybe a small splitter to help direct the air towards vents
Tony that’s pretty bad-ass. Do it Chris! I’m liking the “part of the chassis” idea.
Attached image(s)
Retro -I don't know if you are an ID guy, but I am, and was thinking along the same lines. For example this car is well integrated as a whole thought and includes similar vents to those that you propose:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=333845
Poor Chris! This time we're revising his work!
Love the design of the hood exit!
With a proper shroud pushing the air up and to the side I doubt there will be any loss of airflow.
Good thing about this kind of thing, is it wont prevent you from finishing the engine install, and test driving the car. You can easily drive it with the hood off till you finalize your hood exit/shroud solution.
Also Chris I love the building the louvers into the chassis. If you make the shroud strong enough you can easily put a large duffel bag in the front.
Tony's design is sound, restructure of the hood is well, or could be the issue. I do not see it as an issue for you. It is opportunity.
since you have that small CNC machine and you have the skills to use it, ah just cut new hood structure in layers, and either molten bond them in Modren version of het and fire. Or do it out of Aluminum to keep it light, Rivet the layers together, you can discretely TIG them, and bond a skin of your choice over the top.
Make the side vents their own structure like you suggest. Good duck work, and proper exit in low pressure will insure decent cooling. Lots of math involved. Proper ratio requires decimals, but 2 to 1 ratio will work. Inlet open, after rad bigger, after fans even bigger. Fans at the ends of the runs would provide negative pressure through the entire system, make things a bit more efficient.
As always love the build and the ideas that come from it. Chris you do you, and keep
you are dealing with all sorts of fun math here, but to get it into simpler terms, do not forget a lot of your testing has been done. http://www.cassidy-online.com/porsche914/aerodynamic_aids/index.html. Find a good low-pressure are for the exit, and have hun.
In reality for us hobby level enthusiasts, it is a crap shoot unless you want to spend lots of time in CAD, and then have access to flow simulators. Even then your model has to be superb. LOL a few GO Pros, and some yarn, and tape, still a great set of tools for figuring out what is going on. There is a reason why they are still used today.
You know what would make this whole vent thing way easier?
1. Lose the fuel tank bulkhead, replace with "suitable" shock tower bracing
2. Fab the TonyVents (tm)
3. Design/fab the AndyrewDuct System (tm)
4. Build a custom shaped aluminum fuel tank
5. Fabricate hood
The nice thing is that, as @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 points out, I can work on this as a separate project, perhaps mocking it up/proving it out on one of the parts cars, then fit it to my build...
EDIT: I take back the above. I just ran out to look at the car and I don't think all that would really help. The shock towers are what's really in the way. A bit more head scratching will be required!
Now, if it was a tube chassis with A-arms, that'd be a different story...
Finished up all the plumbing in the console. All soft lines fabbed, pressure tested and installed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'm waiting for some components needed for the wiring so thought I'd attend to a couple items that just weren't doing it for me. Today it was the clamp for the GT headlight cable splitter.
The kit doesn't come with anything as it's not known where the splitter might be mounted.
Version 1 was a cheap-out move on my part, using a standard p-clamp that bolts to a threaded insert I welded to the underside of the inner fender.
Nothing really wrong with it as it's simple and light weight. Perfect for a race car but zero cool factor.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So a bit of mill work and I have a spiffy clamp that earns some style points and is more in keeping with the vibe I'm after.
It's the little things...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Did you work in Aerospace? That’s cool.
The reversed turbo forward headers prevent me from using the stock "on the valve cover" coil mounting locations. Plus, I'd like to hide as much stuff as possible.
After much "will they fit here? No. How about here? No...", I realized if I packaged them in pairs, vs as a group of four (as is typical), I'd have more locations to choose from.
So I designed, cut and bent up a test version "2-up" mount. Yep, this will work! I'll finish cutting the rest of them tomorrow and then go after the attachment points.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Getting closer! Nice coil bracket.
Passenger side coil brackets done and installed. Locating them on the engine cross bar nicely hides them, along with the plug wires.
RE: the driver side, I'm swapping to a different water pump, which also mounts on the engine cross bar. I'll need to get the new pump fit then determine what sort of room I have for the coils.
Of course, I could always mount the pump somewhere else...
Attached thumbnail(s)
One thing I (thankfully!) planned for is that in order to install the alternator, I need to get to a bolt that is essentially unaccessible - unless there's a hole in the firewall.
If you at earlier posts, you'll see a smaller hole that I'd designed into that panel when it was plasma cut. Today, I opened it up to final size.
A solid grommet seals the hole and is easily removable when I need to get to the allen head bolt.
Attached thumbnail(s)
OK, enough of the custom stuff for now. How about some actual Porsche parts?
911 e-brakes refurbed and installed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Coils aren't to close to the headers?
E-brakes all hooked up and working, though the passenger side cable stay has yet to be added.
Boxster rear calipers installed. A couple more brake line fittings to complete and all the hydraulic systems will be done.
That's a major to-do about to be crossed off the list.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Change of plan on the electronics. As I was getting ready to go on the Infinity Box wiring, it just seemed like I was running into limited packaging options and losing more interior space than I wanted to... so I sold it and will be using a more traditional chassis harness.
And as far as the steering wheel buttons, I decided I didn't want a curly cord set up. I opted to go with this:
Summit Technologies "Raptor Pro". It's an 8-channel wireless button set up where each button controls a separate solid state relay. Each button can be programmed to be momentary, latching or flashing.
With this set up, I can eliminate essentially all the switches from the dash. It's super sanitary; no wires, not even hardly a bump on the back side of the wheel.
The kit comes with colored graphic labels for the buttons - turn signals, horn, lights, high beam, flash to pass, wipers, etc. I need to settle into which buttons I want to do what then I'll get things labeled.
Note that the pic doesn't really reflect how things look when seated in the car. The top buttons do block a bit of the lower area of the outer gauges but not the operating ranges of the gauges so I think it'll be fine.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Boy, I love what you're doing Chris. I am about to install almost identical SpeedHut gauges. I'm curious why you're running Speedo on the left side?
Oscar
Chris I love the gauges. Man you are getting close to driving that down the road.
Chris - I like the "mannatino" approach; although those 4 upper buttons (the horns!) would bug me as you'll be peering around them at the main gauges. But a man of your skills could simply redesign the mounting plate.....!
- Tony
That steering wheel switch setup is just way to cool
My wife and I took the GTS to lunch in Tomales. She had all my attention (my wife, not the GTS! ) until these two showed up! Both nice guys and the driver of the GT3RS offered me a ride. I had no idea who he was so, being old and safety minded, I politely declined. Plus, the whole physical distancing thing... note I have my mask on.
Anyway, it seemed like all the 911s were out. On top of these, there were 2 other late model Carreras and a Turbo. Porsche Friday in Tomales!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Once home, I fabbed up the driver side coil mount. The water pump is on this side so I opted to design a new mount that bolts to the block.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I made another mount for the remaining two coils that picks up four of the mounting bosses on the block and connects to the other mount. In the end, it's pretty tidy and totally hidden, which was just what I was after.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I really like the block mounted location for the coils so I cut and bent another one for the passenger side. With the starter in the way, I could mount only two on the block so I left the other pair on the engine cross bar. I'll redo the cross bar mount by welding in a threaded insert and close off the hole on the other side.
Next on the list is to make up the plug wires. One done here, seven to go.
Attached thumbnail(s)
VERY clean!!!!!
I have a few more fabrication and welding items to do in the engine bay, plus H20 system plumbing of the pump and engine, so I pulled the drive train for what I hope is the last time before this thing runs and drives.
With one small modification, I was able to remove this whole thing as an assembly!
I'd never seen it all together, out of the car and thought some of you would be interested to see it like this. If I didn't know, I'd bet there'd be no way it'd fit in a 914.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Beautiful.
Even seeing photos of it in the car I would still tell you there's no way it would fit in a 914
That engine is insane. Love the pipes, like a 60’s indy/F1.
Wow! Your right it does look like it wouldn't fit. What is that sled thing it's sitting on?
A couple more items off the to-do list:
I got the ECU mounted and started playing with wiring, then added a couple simple braces that will serve as the base for the battery mount.
I allowed for use of a larger battery, in the event this tiny one doesn't cut it.
And no, that's not the box for it, it's just something to set it on to test various locations and orientation.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark Howard is running this battery in his Camaro and it works for him so I figured I'd give it a try, but again, with an insurance policy!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I fabbed a fancy "fit around the bar and sit at an angle" bracket for the radiator cap/tank.
This unit comes as part of the Renegade kit. It's a nice piece and it's generally mounted by bolting it to the fire wall.
Well, clearly, they didn't get the memo that there's no way I'm drilling holes in my firewall!
I carved out a section of it so it'd wrap the bar, too. And yes, all the hoses clear everything.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks like to me there’s two sections of exhaust pipe that would fit some turbos in real nice. Can you post more pictures of your lift system. I was just thinking about that the other night how am I going to do this by myself.y
This whole build is just so "next level."
Really fun to watch and try to understand what exactly is going on here(?)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19266 - Here's the lift. Again, take one ATV/motorcycle lift and extend it. It works great.
Attached image(s)
Just curious, would those headers fit / or hit the cv/axle shafts if you ran them "under" instead of "over"?
Hi,
I copied Chris's engine lift design.
Works great.
I used 06 corvette manifolds and ran over the axles.
David
And credit where credit is due:
I copied @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=721 Andy's lift design. See post #9 on this page for good pics and a much tidier execution!
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=204625&hl=
Thanks for sharing, Andy!
During this build, I've had to start from scratch and learn a number of skills, including welding, metal forming, fabrication, CAD and CAM software, a new plasma table, etc.
Next, apparently, will be my nemesis: WIRING.
The EFI engine harness that came as part of the ITB kit is designed for an "engine in front". Many/most of the pre-terminated connectors are too long or too short and much of the messy stuff is at the rear of the engine, which is the main view of it in my car.
My OCD simply can't tolerate all this messy wiring.
I contemplated trying to modify the kit harness but after talking with the Techs at Holley (it's a Holley HP ECU and harness), I opted to start over with an un-terminated kit.
What was I thinking?
Well, I figured out most of the other stuff, I'll figure this out, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This is what I found unacceptable. Anyone need an LS3/Holley HP Engine harness?
Attached thumbnail(s)
I started with a mock up of routing for the injector harness. Again, the kit, as delivered, is designed for the stock LS3 intake, not ITBs, so the injector harness loom was too short in places and forced the main connector to be at the back of the engine.
This unterminated injector harness kit will allow me to hide the connector at the front.
Way mo' betta!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I finished the day by completing the plug wires. All nice and hidden from view.
In the end, I'm trying for the "no wires visible" look across the entire engine. I'll likely have a few but it'll be far cleaner than what it was and should look pretty tidy.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With all the fancy cool tools you have you possibly could fab up some wiring covers that attached to the engine hide the wires and add even more I candy. Just a thought.
Man, that is looking pretty. Of course the wiring was going to be next level stuff.
Wow! Next level stuff for sure!
Are the wires long enough that you wont have to join any wires? I suspect that you'll add plugs as needed and pin wires?
Im just curious if you've subscribed to the solder vs crimp method for wire connection.
"...being old and safety minded, I politely declined..."
Goes back to cramming LS3 into go-cart.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 - This is my first go with wiring and I did end up purchasing all the needed crimpers and de-pinning tools. After the first couple, everything went fine. I'm assuming you have the correct tool for the connectors?
I ended up having to get 4 different de-pinners to work with the various types of connectors I have across the different harnesses. But as a tool whore, I'm OK with that!
Anyway, here's my crimp vs what the instructions say it should look like.
Let me just say: There is absolutely nothing like having the right tools for the job!
Attached thumbnail(s)
A few down, a few hundred to go! And the diagram you see there is just the engine harness. After that, I have the entire chassis harness to make.
I'm hoping this evolves into a Zen-like process vs one of tedious repetition.
But so far, it's going just fine.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow. Wishing you a Zen like state of mind.
I was trying to figure out what pinning was earlier.
You go mate! BTW I love the pic of the pipes with the awesome colours showing off the plating.
A Zen Tool for the Tool Whore
Question about the lift, built as it is would it be pretty much universal as long as there is a cross bar up front?
That looks all about right. I found that I would often forget the weather sealed or at the very worst pin the first one into the plug and forget all the stuff on the back side of the wire such as the shielding or the heat shrink.
Biggest problem that I found with the tools was that it did not crimp correctly now mine look slightly different than yours in regards to the actual pain and have little fingers that supported the wire it would crimp the main portion correctly but it wouldn't crimp these two correctly. So I ended up doing most of it by hand with little needle nose.
I've probably done 200 of those pins. You can definitely get into a pattern with them.
V1 of the injection harness complete. Well, almost complete. I still have to finish the ends of the wire wrap.
And what's with the "V1" comment? You know me. I need to see it to know if I'll like it. And while this harness is certainly serviceable, it's too visible, IMO.
I realized after I'd cut the wires to length that I can route them on the inside of the ITBs and only a small loop coming out to each injector would be visible.
So, V2 it will be. But I'm calling this one a success since I learned a lot and better understand the thought and build process I need to follow when building a harness.
Onward...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the diagram.
Chris you must be a new level of insane wanting to do a V2 of a wiring harness That harness looks seriously clean though, color me impressed.
Looking Great When we were working on my microsquirt wiring and tried to get fancy we tried to use the heat shrink with the self-adhesive. Things were great for the first 1700 miles but we eventually had an issue on Pin 1 (power) that became a ghost in the system for a while. I was at that point that I became a fan of service loops. The heat shrink was pulling on the outer pins and it became an issue over time.
Here are some resources you will find interesting:
Professional Mil-Spec Motorsport ECU Wiring Harness Construction
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
Nasa insturctions
https://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/frameset.html
Motec wire porn
https://zacperkins.com/1973-porsche-911t
Enjoy
With the drive train moved 1.5 inches forward, I opted for these neat-o, super low profile fittings that allow everything to clear while still being super tidy. They are only 2.3" tall. Mezeire is the supplier, if you're looking for something like this.
I'm still waiting for a couple fittings but I was able to start building the H20 lines.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Dude, it's getting close! I want to be there when you fire her.
- battery tray bracing
- battery tray, with added lightness
- battery in place w/battery hold down bracket
I don't think I could have found a lower mounting spot. Fingers crossed it has the oomph to start the LS.
Attached thumbnail(s)
V2 of the injection harness nearing 50% complete.
I so prefer this routing. It's so much stealthier and far tidier than V1.
As much as I like how this build is turning out, I happily confess to being a little frustrated with my inability to "get it right" the first time. But hey, it's only time and money, right?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris - that looks so much better - nice work!
- Tony
We have a winner!
What harness? I only see the one over the trans! Very clean. Maybe you can sell your first version to recoup your cost.
I think he converted everything to Bluetooth:)
Where possible (and reasonably practical), I want to eliminate traditional hose clamp connections in favor of AN fittings. So on the expansion tank, the hose barb fittings were lopped off and AN bungs welded in. Martin's TIG work is just incredible...
Yes, it's true; I often go for form over function. So sue me...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Pretty!
Overkill, but Pretty!
Return style system, right? Thats the way it looks.
Is it higher than any other point in the system? Looks a tad low as I know those water jackets on the LS are bit high.
This seems like it'll take a while. While the chassis harness wires are labelled along their entire length, that's not the case with the engine harness; there are nothing to ID the wires except the diagram.
There are situations where the same colored wire is used for different inputs and some sensors share the same 5v output wire and ground wire. This is my first attempt at wiring a car, too.
I can't efficiently do the physical routing without being able to easily ID each wire so I'm labeling each one after first verifying it's connectivity from its end to its pin location in the connector that plugs into the ECU. I figure it'll take me another few hours to complete that step.
My wife thought she was quite funny when she came out to the shop, watched what I was up to and asked, "Wire you doing all that?"
Good thing she's cute.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Time to invest in some printable heat shrink
The chassis harness arrived earlier this week. The first order of business is mounting the fuse panel. I figured since I'd already created a panel mount location in the passenger foot well for the V1 electronics, I'd fab a quick mount and see if this location might work.
It turns out this assembly protrudes a bit more than the earlier components so I'm going to redesign the mounting plate to move it up as high as possible. If I don't like that, I'll figure out a different spot.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Make sure you save room for your ducts and venting for any future AC/heat components.
Also you've got the right idea on labeling the wires now... Makes it so much easier to group and organize!
How about mounting it on the underside of the dash with a couple of hinges so it could fold down vertically?
Better. The new mount moves the panel up so there's very little encroachment into the foot well. And to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 's earlier point, it does look like I'll have to modify that plastic heat/air duct in order to fit it.
I'll work up some sort quick releasable foot rest/cover for the fuse panel so it'll be nice and hidden.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I cannot believe you opted for a simpler way of doing something. Who is this posting in my friend Chris's place and what have you done with him?
I need to merge the H2O lines coming from each cylinder bank back into one and get it routed down to the radiator return hose. After messing with a couple different commercially available Y-blocks, neither of which "did it" for me, I went ahead and designed up exactly what I need.
Take two 90 degree, 1.25" .065 wall aluminum tubes, same stuff I used for the hard lines in the frunk, do a bit of slicing and dicing, weld on the AN bungs and BOOM:
a custom water line collector!
I'm no fluid dynamicist but I have to believe this is better for flow than inlets that are 45 or 90 degrees to each other. Plus, it looks pretty cool.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Niiiice. Also is that your tig welds??
It seems today was all about the al-U-minium. First, with Martin helping on the water collector, then me finishing up the radiator support and shrouding.
While I will be temporarily installing some of the rivets ahead of paint, it'll only be those I can easily get behind to remove. I can't install any that attach panels to the tubing as if I removed them, the back side rivet parts would rattle around inside the tubes forever.
But some items must (and can) be "finished" as separate assemblies, so long as they get their finish done before the rivets go on.
Here's the powder coated and all finished rad mount with associated shrouding. I think it turned out really nicely.
Sharp eyes will notice these aren't pop rivets. They are the CherryMax structural rivets mentioned dozens of pages back. They retain their steel core and are WAAAAY stronger than the typical pop rivets. Overkill, as usual, but I have them for the fire wall and figured I'd use them here, too.
The tabs on the mount are for the AC condenser.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A tool whore recommendation: If you have more than a few rivets to install, get yourself a pneumatic rivet gun.
This is a cheapie HF model but, holey moley, does it make quick work of this process.
Note that I'm holding the phone with one hand and completing the riveting with the other. Try that with a manual gun...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbGJB818HY8
I wondered whether or not you opted for a hydraulic squeezer. Those Cherry Max rivets are difficult to pull w/o one.
Dammn nice work on that shroud!
Radiator mount installed. The orange stuff is a stick-on rubber strip that I'm using as sort of a gasket/insulator between the mount and the radiator. The radiator sits on two small pads (you can see one there on the triangular section of the mount) so the lower cross bar of the mount doesn't need the strip.
Pic of the strip's McMaster-Carr part info included, in case you want some. It's available in various widths, non-sticky, etc.
I also used it under areas of the fuel tank as it's just the right thickness to replace the stock material.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
That thing fits like a glove, color me impressed! Looks really good, as with every other detail on this thing of course. Gonna be one awesome 914 when you are done.
Let's get back to MY build, shall we?
Another do-over. The move to using my custom water collector means the battery has to move. I need to fit a bunch of stuff in this general area:
- battery
- water collector/thermostat ( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 , I decided to allow for one, even if I opt to run without)
- AC compressor and lines
- ECU
- engine harness - This large-ish harness needs room to exit the ECU, get to the fire wall, turn left and route under the battery box.
Here's the first effort at the 2nd mock up. Wait... what?
It moves the battery up but this seems the best I can do, given the requirements.
In this configuration, it looks like everything fits. And yes, I still have to make a couple braces for the rear-most edge of the battery box.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I wish I had the $$$$ for you to build me a custom 914......Just amazing skills.
^
Same!!!
He's been putting the rest of us to shame since day one!!
Perfect!
A bit off topic but fellow tool whores will likely enjoy:
A 914 World member asked if I could make a panel with a few beads rolled into it. I figured why not try and copy the factory's reinforcement rib, at least as best I could with the beading dies I have.
I don't have a stepping die set but I was betting I could do some mix/match to get close. You can see the curved die's match on the bench.
So, here's the die set up I used, as well as a quick video of a test roll to prove out the setting needed to get the desired result.
Note I was videoing with one hand, and guiding the panel with the other so no comments about accuracy!
Also, this was a scrap/test piece and I curved the bead only to miss that cut area in the panel - but it gives you an idea of the sorts of details that bead rollers can add.
Could this be done by hand? Yes. By me? No. Yet another example of "the right tool for the job".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf9Dw42XqaA
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have seen the quality of Chris's work in person. And it is real and it is spectacular.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20051 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22389 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104
Thank you. I'm humbled by your kind words.
Wow!!! We're gonna have to talk
That bead is perfect for what I'm looking for for my rear trunk firewall!
So cool that Chris shares. You peeps who live in his area have a huge blessing.
First attempt at the rear battery tray support brace. It has a stiffening flange running up the left side that snugs up against and locates it against the engine mount's flange. Style points for the triangular cut out that echos the fire wall stamping design.
I'll use a couple bolts to secure this brace to the engine mount and either bolt it or spot weld it to the battery tray. Again, the whole contraption has to be removable to allow for servicing other components in this area.
I'll remake the battery tray, too. Now that it won't be sitting on those two braces (which will be removed), I need to relocate the speed holes.
In all, I think I like this brace design - it just needs a few tweaks.
Attached thumbnail(s)
New version of the rear brace attached to the engine mount and updated battery tray design fabbed. Next, it's weld the front support bracket to the chassis and spot weld the tray to the brace.
Attached thumbnail(s)
As mentioned, even though I could control the electric water pump on/off based on temp via the ECU, I decided to allow for an in-line thermostat so I don't HAVE to do that. I like the option, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 .
Anyway, Martin again comes through with killer TIG skills. It's a shame this isn't more visible, once installed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Test fitment success! Pardon my Gorilla tape mount, I need to fab another clamp to support the under-body hose.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sexy
Very clean and tidy! Why don't you get a spare thermostat just in case yours fails and you can't find one for that housing in 10 years?
Saweet!
The other news is he doesnt really need one. With the electric water pump he can just shut the pump off till the car warms up. Or put it on a temp switch.
The front battery brace is plug welded to the fire wall's arched cross member.
I added a small triangular brace on the underside to provide a bit more support.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I realized I needed a place to mount the main harness fuses and after looking at things, I decided to redo the rear battery tray support, making it a suitable location for the fuses.
It was also an opportunity to use the spot welder. It does a great job so again, any local folks who could use it, let me know.
Attached thumbnail(s)
All done with everything in place, and with the fuse covers snapped on.
Time to start on the wiring...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The manufacturers do not put that level of attention to detail into their designs.
The engine harness is WAAAY too long. So with it now labeled, I split it almost completely, untangled it, then grouped the wires by sensor and/or location of sensor on the engine.
I'll secure things a bit more to make it easier to handle, plug it into the ECU and get started on routing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Getting the harness rough fitted wasn't as bad as I thought it might be. The part I'm happiest about is that nearly all the wiring will be hidden and all that will be visible is a small sub-harness there at the rear of the engine.
It looks messy now but once that bundle is terminated and connected, I think I can get it to be pretty tidy.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony, I just know you're dying to come up and help!
Attached thumbnail(s)
RE: Tony, I just know you're dying to come up and help!
Chris - you're making great progress! Might be time for a road trip to discuss.... will PM you,
- Tony
I worked up a new dash panel that now includes a neat little raised area for the gauge lighting dimmer knob. Yes, the pic is a repeat of what I posted in the "...SpeedHut gauge panel..." thread, but some of you may not have seen that. Thought you might want to see it here.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Love it!
Another example of what must be a "worse before it gets better" situation.
This is my first go at building a complete electrical system and I opted for the "lay out all the wires where they need to be" approach. Clearly, I'm not quite there...!
I'll let you know if it works out!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, thanks for the inspiration. With my car body off to the paint shop tomorrow, one of the next things on my list is to lay out, clean, and check the wiring harness.
Instead of working on the wiring, I somehow got distracted by just how unattractive I found those strut top washers. They were BEGGING for some style points and for some lightness to be added.
I worked with Martin on this and V1 was trying to clamp the washer directly to the rotary table on the mill. That wasn't working so I ended up plasma cutting a couple 1/4" steel donuts that got tacked to the edge of the washers and served as a workable clamping surface. They worked perfectly!
Attached image(s)
Before and after.
Sorry @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 , I just can't seem to focus on "get it running, then worry about the fancy stuff."
But I do have to say, they look pretty cool and I love the way the Elephant camber plates can now peek through.
OK, I'm back to the wiring, I promise.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Automobilia de Artista
Adding lightness Chris, I think Colin Chapman would totally approve this chassis.
Looking awesome.
Attached image(s)
See, I promised I'd get back to the wiring. And I'm sure learning a lot about it, I'll tell you that. Today was completing all but one of the "back of the engine" sensor connections.
I still have the MAT (manifold air temp) sensor left and the thing is, it's used to being threaded into an enclosed intake manifold. With the ITBs and no air box, I don't have anything enclosed.
I spoke with the tech folks at Borla (they make these ITBs) and I was told I can mount the MAP sensor "in the general area of the stacks" and that'll work.
OK then. So I need to make some sort of semi-attractive bracket to hold the sensor before I can determine the wire length.
All that said, what you see is all that will be visible. I'm happy with how little that's turning out to be. And once I get it covered with tidy loom/wrap, it should all but disappear. Only about 1Mx better than that factory harness I started with.
Attached thumbnail(s)
If you do that clear box can you put the MAT right by one of the inlets?
Chris, have you purchased your loom material yet? I was over at Rudy's (Curbandgutter) last week and he had some really sexy loom he is using on his Monster. I hadn't seen that material before but I like it.
MAT sensor location solved. Funny how things work out:
Because the ITB kit is designed as "engine in front", I had to move the throttle cable stop to the other end of the valley tray (see a long time ago posts for details).
So as I was poking around trying to determine where I might mount the MAT sensor, I noticed the spot where the throttle stop would normally be...
I whipped up a neat little reinforced bracket and completed the connector wiring. Done and done. If I do make an air box at some point, I'll just be sure there's a spot for the MAT sensor. Until then, this should work.
Yes, the pic makes it look like the bracket is close to the throttle linkage but there's plenty of room.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That split stuff is way more expensive than the expanding stuff I used. I tried to find more of it when I was doing it but I just didnt like how it rolled. Also it needed to be tied or taped every foot or so to keep it from rolling out.
Im sure Chris will find an elegant solution to this issue
It is MUCH easier to use than the stuff I used though as you dont have to worry about getting everything right before you put connectors on.
OK, here's V1 of the loom wrap. Not bad, but:
There are 2, 3 or 4 20 ga wires in each of those leads that go to the connectors and I think there's a smaller diameter version of this wrap that will take some of the visual bulk away so I may try and source that and give it a try.
Again, not bad and I can live with it until / unless I find something that's a better fit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Before/after.
Admittedly, I have to add the passenger side injector harness but, I'd say it's a bit tidier than what I started with, eh?
Attached thumbnail(s)
To anyone out there looking at all this on your phone, put it down and go to your computer.
This car is too beautiful to waste on a small screen.
In no way is my stuff comparable, but I do agree with Singer that "Everything is important".
So if you have to make a spacer for the MAT sensor, why NOT take a little extra time to add some style points and make it tapered vs plain?
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looks good. Did you turn that, Chris?
So life has gotten in the way and it has been a few weeks since I checked in on what the master fabricator was up to. I click on the last page of the thread and this pic fills my screen. So many thoughts... so many words rushing through my head... but really, what CAN be said? This pic says it all.
Probably way too late now and kind of a PITA to use unless you plan ahead, but I use what is referred to as "Chemical-Resistant Tube Sleeving" from Mcmaster. It's the closest thing to what the 914 wiring harness is in.
https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/929/
Sorry for the late reply...
OK, so maybe not that exciting to most of you but this is the first sign of life in the chassis since I've owned it!
I completed the tail lights harness and everything tested out 100% - SUCCESS! Yes, that little right side running lamp is out but I swapped it side to side and all's well.
To test the harness, I have a probe that can be connected to any circuit and send 12V + or ground into it. In this example, I'm just flipping the 12v + into the tail light circuit.
It's a great little unit in that, as you can hear, as soon as you connect it to the circuit, if it senses things are good, it sounds that initial tone. Flip the power to it and the tone changes to let you know things are working. So you can actually test things like lights without having to actually see them illuminate. Neat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMS9ypMKYys
Woot!
Big achievement there! Congrats!
It's Alive! That is cool and a cool piece of equipment to check electrical. OK, who was surprised Chris had a tool like that? Yeah, me neither.
That is a great feeling of relief. Tell mote about that voltage tester @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 as I’m weeks away from cutting down another harness.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19266 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9964 and any other tool whores looking for a neat item:
Here's the kit I went with. Note I am a total wiring novice so there may be better/more appropriate items available...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The probe is that "PP3" item on the left in the pic above. The kit also has a bunch of different ends that plug into the leads: alligator, pointy, thin bladed, etc. that you can see in the pic on the front of the case. I just didn't include a pic of them...
Anyway, here's the PP3 hooked up. The black lead heading off the top of the pic is just an alligator clip that goes to ground. In this case, I just clipped it to the (unpainted) fender.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then you just touch the probe lead end to one end of the circuit you want to test.
If it senses a complete path, it lights up green and that first tone sounds.
I also realized that button in the middle of the unit, just above the little speaker cut outs, turns the tone on/off so you don't have to listen to it if, for example, you were doing something that took a bit of time or if "Over the hills and faraway" is playing on your shop radio and heaven forbid, ANYTHING interrupt that!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, press the toggle switch (either + to send 12V or - to send things to ground) and, assuming you have a complete circuit, the other light goes on, the unit tells you the voltage and the tone changes.
And of course, if it's your tail lights being tested, they light up.
Not the world's best tool review but I give this kit 5 of 5 tygas!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yes I love mine. Makes fast work of electrical issues. For me it pays for itself every time I borrow a trailer. I end up fixing some lighting issue. Between that tool and a truck simulator, I can figure out wiring issues in no time.
Highly recommend, minute I heard the sound I knew the tool Chris was using.
Thx for the response Chris. I like the idea of knowing it is alright to "hit it with 12v". I remember the anxiety attack brought on by activating an electrical system designed by, none other than yours truly, a plumber.
Thanks for the information. I have spent two days under the Notch dash and think I'm going to start over. There is like three layers in there and you can't get to the top if the others are in, and you cant test the top.....now I got to find some money.
The wiring effort is progressing. Slowly. But progressing.
Routing the wires is such fun. Realizing the one you want to have "here" needs to be pulled all the way out and fed back through some hard to reach area because it was on the wrong side of some bracket....
Ah well, I will know EVERY inch nanometer of this thing by the time I'm done...
I'm pretty happy with how it's turning out and can't wait to see how things will look once everything is painted, powder coated, replated, etc.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Speaking of wiring, how cool is this???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfeBWmt5jwk
Neat!! Nice to see the Summit Tech stuff up and working "right out of the box"....
- Tony
PS. Were you a Hand model in a previous life?
Great videos. First timed I'd seen them.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898
Yesterday, Mark and Robert dropped by the Red Barn to taunt me with running/driving GTs!
These are two of the greatest guys you'll ever want to meet, btw.
And we realized this (July 19) would have been the final day of the original target dates for the 2020 WCR. So I'm claiming this "Gathering of Three" is our attempt at some form of normalcy. Any excuse for hanging out with like-minded folks!
Attached thumbnail(s)
As I mentioned, this is my first go at wiring an entire car. Someone please tell me that at this point, it's OK that it looks like this!
Seriously, I'm not the neatest when it comes to how things look "in progress" but I want to first test that everything works, then focus on tidying things up. Plus, I'm learning as I go.
So, you can see it's a pretty standard fuse panel. And those two components under it?
The large one is the brains of the wireless steering wheel button panel and the smaller one to the right is an add on that does all the magical stuff with how the turn signals and 4-way flashers work. Both items by Summit Technologies in the UK. Seems like really nice stuff.
And let me give a big shout out to Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 for taking a LOT of time with me on the phone to help me come up to speed on all this e-lek-tric stuff! Thanks, Tony, I couldn't have made the progress I have without your help.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I was thinking of using that same wireless setup. Didn't know it was that cool with that 4 blink set up. Also, in looking at the Tilton pedal I now see how far out I will need to hang that throttle cable out there. Nice to see how you're doing it so that I get a sneak peek of what I'll have to deal with. I'll be calling you on all that electrical stuff since I'm pretty much a novice.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=87
OK Mike, the gauntlet has been thrown!
Who will have their wiring completed first? Place your bets!
- Mueller and his fancy, high-tech system (yes, it was me Mike bought it from!)
- Tygaboy and his old school, universal hot rod "mess o' wiring" system
Seriously though, what I'm after with this wireless set up is ZERO switches in the car. Note that I have no turn signal or wiper stalks on the column. I also plan to switch the fresh air / heater blower from one of the buttons as well as wipers, headlights and hi-beam so again, NOTHING anywhere on the dash.
Let's see if I can pull it off...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_MHa-LbfKQ
I dont know who to root for!
You guys have all the cool stuff.
Bob B
Here's the current "button map" plan.
Mostly self explanatory but that fan icon doesn't switch the radiator fans, it triggers the fresh air/heater blower fan.
After consulting with Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 , I took his advice that since the Low and Medium speeds don't move much air, why not simplify things and go with a high speed-only blower. OK then. If I can't live with it, I'll figure something out at that point.
The seats are heated, too, so I should be OK on cold days.
Coming back to the radiator fans, I plan to use the engine ECU and have it start/stop them at particular temps.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - so the unmarked switch will be main/low beam toggle? and the upper left switch is side/rear/head lights on / off...?
No ejector seat then.
- Tony
In keeping with "virtually no usable 914 content", here's the latest:
I've opted to use an Arduino plus a few other goodies to add specific functionality to the Raptor wireless system.
As delivered, the Raptor buttons can be set to momentary, latch or flash. Meaning that to trigger any "complex" behavior, I'd need to add something. Arduino to the rescue! With less than $100 in resistors, diodes and relays, I can do the following:
Headlights: Press the "Lights" button for 2 seconds and the low beam, tail and running lights come on. Now, a quick click of the Lights button switches between low/high beam as many times as needed. Hold the button for 2 seconds and all lights switch off.
Heater/fresh air blower: The first press turns the fan on low, next one switches it to medium, next one to high, next one turns it off.
Wipers: The first click turns them on low, the next turns them to high, the next turns them off. Press and hold at any time and the squirters squirt!
It looks like I will achieve the goal of no switches other than the Raptor AND no loss of desired functionality. Plus, I can expand and program the Arduino to do other things I may think up! Or, change the behavior of the above listed items.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Great theft deterrent Chris. Your common thief would never figure out how to operate your car. Anyway, it's an improvement over Porsche's matrix technique they used in wiring the 914. Looks good, stay after it.
That is incredibly cool, you get much more on that steering wheel you'll have a F1 car
I could not begin to comment what electrical switching system to use.
Just want to say what an adventure this build is with the twists and turns and evolution of this project. I personally like that wheel set up.
It’s like the simple early GTP & F1 Steering wheels. I hope you can make it work Chris.
Keep at it!
And..... it WORKS! At least on the bench. Today was just getting things mocked together and programming the Headlight function. The relays trigger as needed to support the "long press" to turn things on and off and the "short press" to toggle between low and high beams.
And here are the raw components ahead of any attempt at clean up, final wire length, packaging or mounting.
The 5V signals flow from the Raptor box into the 6-pin connector at the top of the pic. Then it's into the Arduino which runs the program and controls that 2nd board's components, which are essentially low voltage relays that in turn trigger the 12V relays on the right.
The Headlight function works like this:
- after a press over 2 seconds long is released, Relay 1 (running lights) and Relay 2 (low beams) are turned on.
- With Relay 1 on, a press of any duration under 2 seconds will turn off Relay 2 and turn on Relay 3 (high beams).
- the next short press shuts off Relay 3 and turns on Relay 2.
- continued short presses are simply toggling between low and high beam.
- when the next press of over 2 seconds is detected, all relays turn off.
That little board to the left is a voltage regulator that takes the car's 12v down to the 5V the Arduino needs.
And it's working just as planned.
Now to get it packaged, installed and wired. I can then program the remaining functions for the wipers and blower motor and upload via USB cable.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have a box full of relays in a box with the same colors. Great minds.
So will you name the car Kitt?
Super awesome!!
V1 of the relay mount was too plain. So in keeping with "no kill like overkill!", I made this one.
I still need to weld up the seams and no, you won't be able to see it once the dash is installed, but it's another of those items I'll know is there.
Oh, and don't ever hook up the 12V lead to the wrong end of your Arduino's voltage regulator, else you'll fry your Arduino and have to sorta start over.
Apparently this is my version of "the next version" when it comes to electronics.
Good thing these little units are only like $25.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Uh Chris, your relays are so old school.
Here to helphttps://www.waytekwire.com/item/46345/EATON-s-Bussmann-Series-15305-5-2-4-RTMR-Mini-Fuse/
I used that set-up when I added FI to the engine in my -6. They work great, are small, and easily wired.
Hey Chris! Didn’t mean to be the bearer of doom...busy weekend though, I’ll give you a ring Monday.
This think can fit 10 micro relays. I’ve used them a few times and been happy.
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46357/EATON-s-Bussmann-Series-15404-2-0-1-0A-RFRM/
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 Chris, Yes that would be the one.
"and any other tool whores looking for a neat item:
Here's the kit I went with. Note I am a total wiring novice so there may be better/more appropriate items available...
[/quote]
This Certified xxxx-whore has been pushing PowerProbe for years, wish I got commission on every sale
Mess 'o wires got you down? No problem - just hide them!
I worked up an initial version of a fuse panel cover. Only took three tries to get the bends to work out and have all the mounting holes align!
One plane on the left side (out of view in this pic) couldn't be formed as part of the main panel so I'll fab that and weld it in. Pics once that's done. Then it's on to making a foot rest that ties from the floor up to the lower mounts of this cover.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I get to see this car next weekend...
And here's the whole contraption in place. I need to get back to focusing on things that'll make it run.
I'm targeting Sept for its maiden voyage under its own power. Wish me luck!
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16291 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1659 - Thanks for the info, guys. As mentioned, I'm still early in my electrical learning curve. My requirement is for a panel that supports 8 - 10 relays while being as small as possible - and I don't need add'l fuses. After a bit of searching, it seems I'm best off building what I want from a base starting point.
I found the Bussman 15310. It's a 60 position panel that can be configured to support just what I need, with room to expand, should that need arise.
I happily confess I wasn't aware of the Micro and Ultra Micro relays and what they mean to the overall size of the final unit. It seems I can get what I need in a ~ 5" x 3.5" x 2.75" box. Yes, it'll sit taller once mounted with space for the harness, but it looks like my best option.
Critiques and guidance appreciated, as always.
Attached image(s)
More progress. Maybe not exciting to some of you, but VERY exciting to me as my build shows additional signs of life after all this time.
And ignore my comment about what the oil pressure gauge does. I had neglected to plug it into the harness. Once plugged in, it doesn't jump to full reading when first powered up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6bDw49JNjw
All those wires make my head hurt
That Power Probe really saved me a ton of headache, THANK YOU for the information.
Looking Good.
Nice! Keep crossing all those little details off your list!
Love the progress!!
That is some high tech stuff you got going on there! The steering wheel controls will be slick.
You're having entirely too much fun.
Are you going to compile an owner's manual so you'll know what's what when you're old and feeble?
It's 103 degrees in Petaluma today so what do I decide I need to work on? The HEATER, of course!
I saw the old thread about this and liked the set up that uses a '94 Mustang heater core as they "fit" inside the fresh air box. Well, OK, after some minor surgery, they fit...
I have a couple fresh air boxes so I figured if I screw this one up, I'll call it V1, claim it was practice, etc. Here's what I did:
First, chop off the raised area around the opening on bottom. Then clearance for the in/out water lines. Yes, I went way overboard on the clearance. I'll do better next time...
Once that's done, it turns out the heater core is a bit too deep - with the core pushed as far back as it can go, the front sticks out just enough that it doesn't allow the top to fit back on.
Attached thumbnail(s)
What to do? These boxes are made of ABS so I could cut the back, get some sheet ABS and use Acetone or JB Weld to patch it up. But that would be too easy.
I've never messed with ABS so some of you may know this but it turns out this stuff is pretty pliable, once you apply a bit of heat. So out came the heat gun.
I cut a piece of wood to the appropriate size and went (carefully) to town with the heat gun. Once the area I wanted to move was, well, movable, I pressed the wood into the desired position and held it there as the ABS cooled.
The clamps on the top edge are to keep it from coming out of shape from the heat and pressure.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the backside. I'm really happy with how this worked out. Almost looks factory?
I did end up with a bit of distortion on the right and left sides so I can heat those and straighten them, or more probably, I'll do the whole procedure to another box, now that I know what to expect. And I can do a tidier job on the water line openings, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Will you ever run out of things to modify??
Crazy build thread.
For my next trick, I'm going to see if I can use the same approach to address the top piece. I cut this one to get an idea of just how far I'd need to move things.
Can I pull it off? It may be a bit of a stretch but I'll let you know...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Back to things needed to make it run. Today was completing the final engine-mounted coolant line.
With the drive train out, I have the access needed to weld one minor item to the chassis.
Then it's fill the trans and the drive train goes back in for the last time.
The to-do list is down to half a dozen relatively minor items and then I'll be ready to attempt the maiden fire start up!
The plan is to video and post the entire "let's see what it takes to get this mofo to run" process, not the fake one where things miraculously work. I will be enlisting a couple local friends to be here and man the fire extinguishers, just in case.
I'm thinking maybe this coming weekend. Wish me luck!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hopefully the next time we come over we can hear that baby running.
Damn that looks good! So excited for you. I am now working on going to an LS on my V8 car. Just finished cleaning the engine bay for paint after Cary fixed the hell hole for me. My alternator is hung it the same place and I want to use the original break proportioning value. They can't both be in the same place. What did you do?
like
For first fire ups ever since I had one go up, which was quickly extinguished with a blimp of the throttle. I now push them outside. Let the car burn if that's what it wants to do, my shop, and tools, no thank you.
I have a winch at the far wall from the door if I need to I can drag it back in.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18779 21mm is the standard size MC recommended for the Boxster calipers, even 23mm is not unheard of.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 , Chris if you really installed 5/8" that is a bit undersized. That actual is about a 16.5mm cylinder size.
I hope you are mistaken and installed at least 3/4 but then 7/8 would be even better choice.
Top notch work Chris, as expected. I think when you are done with this project you need to start working on a supercar concept. Not sure we have seen a one in while!
Not poking but I don’t see an a/c compressor on the engine. Is that still in the plans?!
As I approach the first attempt at starting this thing, it struck me that I ought to do my best to channel Steely Dan: Countdown to Ecstasy!
Boring photo but this is the "buttoned up enough to run" frunk:
- radiator hose pass through panel temporarily pop riveted (can't final rivet it until the car is painted)
- fan relays wired and tested
- radiator hard lines fully installed
- radiator shroud in place
- brake/clutch reservoirs ready for fluids
For those wondering, "what's up with that plain radiator shroud?", I have yet to source/layup the carbon fiber inserts for the stamped shroud and beyond that, it'll need to be painted ahead of bonding in the inserts.
So, because I'm focused on doing only what's needed to get it running and driving, and I have to have some sort of shroud, I cut this aluminum version. Virtually no style points, only what's needed. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 , aren't you proud of me?
Attached thumbnail(s)
I realized I'd probably want the engine inspection cover to be in place ahead of getting it running. As with the radiator shroud, the final version of the cover will need painting before I bond in the carbon panels.
So I dug out V1 of the cover, cut some suitably shaped steel panels, placed them in from the back side and spot welded them in place. From a distance, they almost look like the stamped pieces.
Not the most attractive, but I now have a serviceable and reasonably fire proof fire wall.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The engine is back in for the last time before attempted starting.
Now I just have to wrap up a few items. Today was the under body coolant lines and working up a quick/dirty oil cooler by-pass line.
I need another 90 degree hose to wrap up the connection from the hot side collector to the radiator hose but the feed to the water pump is complete.
And on the oily side of things, I do have an oil cooler but I need to noodle on where to mount it. Until I work that out, this wonky by-pass allows for the start attempt.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So close!
good to see that wix oil filter ready for action.. home stretch, here we come!!
I'm getting closer by the hour. Today it was a couple wiring things then hooking up the throttle cable and having it activate the ITBs for the first time!
I figured I should get a video of the action before installing all the velocity stacks and "air filters" (!)
Don't worry about the odd wire you see moving around at the bottom of the screen - it's the excess length of the yet-to-be-trimmed throttle cable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYtGBNXWTZc
All buttoned up and ready to run back here.
Attached thumbnail(s)
getting close
It's so quiet...for now!
Do you know an audio engineer that can record the sound for you?
The excitement is mounting !!!
This is getting INTENSE!
WOW!
In keeping with the full disclosure approach: Good thing I video'd the ITB operation.
I thought I'd avoided any interference with the linkage but it turns out there was some!
My zippidy do-da MAT sensor mount fouled the linkage as it approached WOT. Heaven forbid not being able to achieve WOT in this thing...
Anyway, it's nothing a bit of trimming couldn't resolve.
First pic is closed throttle, second is WOT. What's interesting is that the linkage geometry is such that that the last bit of pedal travel moves the linkage arm WAY farther inboard. Anyway, problem solved.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I love it when you can fix problems with a grinder
Those are nice seats.
Darn. I was hoping to be able to be there when it breathed its first breath in the car. Well I know you will document it and post the video.
It will start on the first crank and run like it has been running in the car forever. But the fire extinguisher is handy and smart as well as making sure you roll it out into the driveway before firing it. That way the neighbors can appreciate it better.
And for those who may care, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 are coming to the Red Barn tomorrow at 4:00 PM to man the fire extinguishers while I attempt the first start!
My lovely wife will handle video duties to capture the moment for posterity.
Wish me luck!
Do Mark and Robert know how to use a fire extinguisher? Just remember PASS - Pull, Aim, Squeeze, Sweep (at the base of the fire)! Probably nobody would notice a bit of extra smoke in the air.... Wish I could be there to see this moment, but I'm looking forward to the video
BTDT, watched the mushroom cloud drift towards the ceiling. Fast blip of the throttle took car of the fire, but still made my wife's eyes go really big.
Roll the car out. Once it fires give you a good reason to slap some old rubber on it, and do an epic set of 11s.
This car does have an LSD right? A smokey 1 is not cool. Oh hell, even if it does not start it is still cool as hell. Enjoy.
Come on man, it should be your tricked out on board fire suppression system that handles any contingencies! Knowing your engineering it would quench all the wild fires in the region too.
Looking forward to a video tonight! Good luck!
Amazing! You must be on cloud nine man. I can't wait to hear it and see a drive.
OK, here we go. I said I would document the whole thing so this is ~56 seconds of your life you'll never get back but it's f-ing excitingly nerve-wracking for me!
Yes. it's just a video of me putting gas in the tank. I won't be hurt if you skip it!
This is the first time my car has had fuel in it since I've owned it. Remember, I did a bunch of welding on this tank so I figured I'd be sure it was good to go in time to let @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 know if there was any change of plans.
No leaks!
Onward!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocQVGdQA9KI
Hook up the battery, ECU NOT PLUGGED IN.
I just wanted to verify that what was working before was still working. But at the end, I couldn't resist verification that it would crank over.
Again, this is the first time power has been put to many areas of the harness I assembled.
Did I say I was nervous?
So far, so good. Now, it's wait for the crew to get here to see if she'll start. Fingers crossed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8stvsAE69Zk
Tease
OK, I have time to go grab a bite to eat.
From my best Top Gear voice, "It is said the Pucker Factor was so great a Ten Penny nail could not be hammered in his butt with a Sledge Hammer". Best of luck Chris.
Was “red rain “ an intentional choice?
Well, this is a bit disappointing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D50W24OscY
Almost there!
Having never done this stuff before, I had no idea what to expect so be nice if you've done all this. I happily admit I'm a newb...
My comment "...this is brand new technology" was supposed to end with "to me."
But it seemed we were making progress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pEwEIhz-nE
Seemed to us it might not have been getting fuel. At Mark's suggestion I disconnected the ECU and the fuel pump, cracked the Return line connection at the fuel pump, put 12 v to the pump and let it run until it weeped fuel at the Return.
Then it was tighten the Return connection and run the pump for maybe 30 more seconds to see if that would fully prime the system.
Here's what that did for us:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFHjxxo5UCU
So there it is! The beast runs.
The amazing thing to me is that the stuff I did for the first time, like making the main harness, customizing every terminal/connection on the engine and ECU harness and making all the fuel lines, all worked!
A few things left to tidy up but it's on to the next goal:
Maiden voyage on 9/14!
Huge thanks to Mark and Robert for being there to help and support me today.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 - Guys, I couldn't have done it without you. Thanks.
So proud of you getting this thing fired up, that is a huge step.
Congrats!
AWESOME!
She’s alive! I know you are feeling great right now. Motivates me to get back on my project also.
I've been waiting all day to see this!!! Congratulations Chris. Totally inspiring. Yet another milestone achieved.
Well done Chris!!
MAJOR MILESTONE
Now on to buttoning this beast up getting 'er moving under her own power!!
Forgot to mention.. This thing is Bad Ass!!! Part of me wants a ride, the other part is afraid!
Awesome. Congrats. Lots more adrenaline in the build now!
HoooRaaah!
Congratulations Chris. Now that's the way I like to start may day. That engine just sounds strong. Now on to 9-14.
Congrats Chris!!! This is huge! I love how quickly things are progressing. First drive 9/14???? Awesome!!
Fantastico! Congrats. Happy for ya Chris. Sounds mean as hell.
Some fine tuning and you’re on your way. But tone that hair down !
Seriously congrats, long time coming.
Great job.
When you have so much engine and rotational inertia that the torque generated just by reving the engine makes the car body rock . . . you have probably enough engine.
Glad to see this beast running in the light of day!
Great job!!!
David
Where is the video of all the times you restarted it?
Because we all know you restarted it several times and it got more and more awesome each time.
Will there be a group buy for t shirts? very classy Robert!
I like that muffler.
Congrats Chris....very inspiring build thread. I've learned a lot following it.
I can't wait to see it in person one day.
Such detail
Oscar
Yeah!! That thing sounds suh-weet! Awesome work to get to this point, looking forward to a first drive video
Congrat's!!! Always a great feeling when she fires that first time.
Andys
I'd love to see a "Budget Outlaw" video of your build.
Meant to be..............
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=626
Oscar
Congratulations! Awesome to see!
Congratulations! That is the best feeling
Thanks everyone, it was quite a momentous day! And no, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5245 , I didn't run it at all after what you saw in the videos. I had a couple items to deal with first:
First, I hadn't yet put any coolant in it so didn't want to run it until that was addressed. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Andy came through with a magical vacuum driven radiator filling system. It uses a venturi set up, powered by an air compressor. Stick the main unit into the filler and pull a vacuum. If the system holds it, you have no leaks! Then remove the air line and attach a hose that is stuck into the coolant container. Open the valve and the system sucks in coolant until full.
All told, this took like 6 minutes. Very cool and highly recommended!
Big thanks to Andy!
Attached thumbnail(s)
During those video runs, the oil pressure gauge was reading "0". I was confident it wasn't true since it last ran just fine on the dyno. But @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark came through with a mechanical, remote pressure gauge! I connected it to a spare plug on the in/out oil block and cranked until I verified pressure was, in fact, there. It was, as expected. Big thanks to Mark!
So what's up with the gauge? Turns out the wiring that came with the gauge was pinned out differently than the "extra length" wiring I purchased about a year after I got the gauges. A quick flip of two wires and all's well!
Next, the water temp gauge seemed like it wasn't working so I verified the wiring then pulled the coolant temp sensor and used the heat gun on it. The gauge works.
I guess I expected the engine to come up to temp more quickly...
Anyway, I figured now that it has coolant, I'd just let it run until it was clear the temp gauge should move - and it did!
A word about the SpeedHut gauges: I REALLY like these. Each gauge has it's own programmable LED that supports a user-set warning at both a Low and High value. So, you can see that the oil temp light is on, indicating the oil isn't yet up to temp but the water temp light has gone out and the gauge is climbing.
Pretty neat.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I will say, this thing is LOUD. I suspect it may be too loud and I'm already noodling on how I might redo the exhaust to get two mufflers in there. Nothing will happen until I've driven it but heads up that I may have to do something.
I'm hoping part of it is that the throttle feels a bit abrupt. The springs on the ITBs are really stiff. Maybe it'll all relax a bit as things settle in but I've already taken advantage of my "adjustable" throttle linkage:
I moved the cable attachment location down two positions. You can probably tell that this means the same pedal travel = less cable travel and softens throttle response.
I also have everything to learn about programming the the Holley HP ECU and wouldn't be surprised if there's something I can do in there, if needed.
Tomorrow will be a first attempt at bleeding the clutch and brakes and proving out there are no leaks in those lines. Assuming that goes well, the car will be able to move under it's own power and all that'll be left is 4-wheel alignment.
Again, if all goes well, I'll be on a maiden voyage before 9/14!
Almost
Attached thumbnail(s)
A million details and one bad ass car!
Chris - the volts reading seems a little high at over 14V running - is that just parallax error from the camera angle? or maybe these big engines need big volts.....
- Tony
PS. I think its funny that you built a short, near straight through exhaust system - and you're surprised its rather loud...!
Congrats...sounds gnarly
"Loud pipes Save lives"...love it ,and the Porcupines are the icing on the cake !
Couple of muffler options... The "Race" mufflers don't do much but they do some.
https://pitstopusa.com/c-1208447-exhaust-system-mufflers-and-resonators-mufflers-and-components-vibrant-performance-race-mufflers.html
But a better option for you would be some cones. Not cheap, but you can add more than one if needed for additional sound dampening.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dtc-772-32520
Attached image(s)
I just have to say, between Andy, Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 and Robert @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 (alpha order, so no one thinks I have a favorite ) I wonder how I got so lucky as to have met these guys. Just great people...
And today? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Andy came to the rescue once again! If the vacuum radiator system wasn't enough, he also loaned me this pressure bleeder. Yeah, yeah, all you guys who know about/have these just give me a break. I have a one of those little hand held Mighty Vacs so I was dreading the task of bleeding the clutch and both brake masters.
This thing took all of about 30 seconds to do the clutch line! Lunch and a beer on me, Andy!
Attached thumbnail(s)
1 step (pedal?) closer to
!
And starting it is now officially a non-event!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNHZMd0tg_Y
Very happy for you Chris!
And all of us too!! This is like a car person's soap opera!
Can't wait for the next episode, first drive!
Good times Chris! Congrats! Can’t wait for the next chapter.
Congratulations Chris
You must be on cloud nine. After all that work, with doubts that you may have misconnected at least one of the hundreds of connections, or that a fluid connection will leak, the list goes on. And then to hear it run.......WOW.
Sounds great. Cool pressure bleeder.
Kinda like graduation day all over again. Except this time it's your buddies and friends instead of your parents, aunt's & uncle's. Big congratulations Chris. It's been a long but enjoyable haul. For some the real thrill is in the build. You've made it to the 90% done 90% to go plateau. Pat yourself on the back and have a beer.
Ok, enough accolades. Don't inflate him too much, we still have to keep him motivated to drive it.
Today was my first attempt at bleeding the brakes. I was able to get two rounds of bleeding done on the front M/C and it seems good to go. But I need more fluid to complete the 2nd round on the rear.
The Tilton pedals have a balance bar and at this point, when depressing the pedal, it's clear the front M/C firms up almost immediately but you can see the bar tip a fair bit as the rear continues to compress before firming up.
It is generating enough to trigger the hydraulic brake switch so "brake lights" can be checked off the list!
I expect that I'll complete the brake bleeding tomorrow and then give the entire car a once over to check for any loose fasteners.
Once that's done, there nothing preventing it from moving and stopping under its own power. I don't think I can resist backing it out of the Red Barn and driving it up and down our lane! For sure a video-worthy event.
I still need to get it aligned and corner balanced before a full blown road test but Holey Gebus, it's really happening!
Congratulations. So inspiring. I am now on the same path. I picked up the Boxter S trans and all of the goodies last week for an LS and I think I am going LS3 like you.
Keep up the awesome work brother
First post: Oct 17, 2016
Car moves under its own power: August 31, 2020
Just shy of 4 years. Sounds about right, eh?
So, BIG day for me and my car, as I'm sure you'll agree.
But now the real fun begins: The clutch and throttle are both on/off switches.
I'm betting I can address the clutch via a smaller master cylinder. The throttle is likely related to a couple things:
- I discovered an incorrectly pinned IAC (Idle Air Controller) connector in the factory Holley engine harness (yes, me. A novice wiring guy. Holley now has a sticky post about it on their support site, not that I'm claiming I was the only person who let them know.) The engine was dyno'd with that incorrect pin out.
- It now idles at about 1400 RPM and doesn't want to settle quickly back to idle. Vacuum leak somewhere, too? In any case, the higher RPM idle increases the force trying to pull the throttle plates closed and REALLY increases the pressure needed on the throttle pedal. And once things start to open, the pedal is able to move a bit more freely so it's tough to be smooth coming off idle. The good news is, the thing has so much torque, it moves forward at idle, no problem! Or maybe that is a problem!
And you can see it's rich at start up and right off idle. That may improve once it's warm but it seems like something that can be improved.
I've identified a highly recommended shop with a chassis dyno that does EFI tuning for drive-ability, vs the engine dyno work I had done to get the base tune for the ITBs.
Also, the brakes likely need another round of bleeding. Obviously, I haven't broken them in but they need more work.
Oh, and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony, in the light of day, it may not be too loud, after all. At least not creeping up the driveway at idle... Maybe it was the excitement of the first start? The acoustics in front of the shop?
So there you go. It's "running and driving"! Yes, I know, not really but come on. And be honest, who here thought this project would never see the light of day? (besides me!)
And HUGE THANKS for all your encouragement getting me to this point.
More to come as I approach full blown road worthiness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KY0JQwTO8
First off, Lori is incredibly brave to shoot that video.
Second, based just on the sound of the Beast, I'm not going outside until it's safe.
Congrats Chris on getting this far. It's been fun to follow along.
Throttle control will be the key to a long life
Congrats! who knew art could roll!
What a long road Chris - way to stick with it, pal!
Tony/Cracker
Love the build and glad to see you made it to this point, but...
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER press the gas pedal when starting an EFI car. Never ever!
In fact, give it a few seconds after startup to stabilize before pressing the pedal at all. The ECU is recording a baseline for air temp & pressure & stuff to calculate idle speed.
The Holley should be self learning after initial setup.
Also, pulling the key out only engages the steering lock - no electrical involved.
And if it hasn't been mentioned yet, the pump running for only a few seconds is normal. Part of EFI programming. I usually do a 3 second pause when turning the key from ON to START to build pressure, then the engine fires quickly. If it's been a few weeks I have to cycle a few time before I don't hear 'burps' in the tank.
You did it! Congratulations!
Awesome!! Sounds great from here!!!
That is so exciting. I am sure you will have the brakes, throttle, etc., dialed in in no time. Congratulations on a major milestone.
Congrats...
Remember the feeling of driving mine for the first time in 20+ years.
Awesome!!!! HUGE congrats!!!!!
Maybe a cam lever for the throttle?
Clutch being an on/off switch is kinda normal for big power clutches.
Exhausts and fresh engines are typically really loud when first started. Mine was also incredibly loud, but was running lean. Also cold starts are always loud.
It sounds fine in the video I think you'll get used to it
[quote name='Andyrew' post='2847625' date='Sep 1 2020, 09:37 AM']
Clutch being an on/off switch is kinda normal for big power clutches.
It is not a big clutch, actually...its the MC I spec'd out and run in my car. It didn't occur to me that Chris isn't needing a short throw for quick shifting and/or the accompanying pedal effort would be an issue. Changes are in the werks...
Exhausts and fresh engines are typically really loud when first started. Mine was also incredibly loud, but was running lean. Also cold starts are always loud.
Umm, that engine IS broken in...completely!
[quote name='Cracker' date='Sep 1 2020, 07:02 AM' post='2847633']
[quote name='Andyrew' post='2847625' date='Sep 1 2020, 09:37 AM']
Clutch being an on/off switch is kinda normal for big power clutches.
It is not a big clutch, actually...its the MC I spec'd out and run in my car. It didn't occur to me that Chris isn't needing a short throw for quick shifting and/or the accompanying pedal effort would be an issue. Changes are in the werks...
Exhausts and fresh engines are typically really loud when first started. Mine was also incredibly loud, but was running lean. Also cold starts are always loud.
Umm, that engine IS broken in...completely!
[/quote]
Ah that's right it was your old race engine.. still it'll tame itself down at least in his head
Congrats Chris!
Congrats Chris! It sounds great. Also nice work on the wiring. If you haven't been through it there is no way to describe how mind-bending it is.
PS don't you wish the Speedhut gauge needles would park themselves at "0" when powered off like stock gauges rather than freezing where they are when you turn the key off? That's my ONLY minor complaint.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=431 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1659 Thanks for the comments. Before we get too far into things, let me say that the ECU is running the tune that it got when it was on the engine dyno with the incorrectly wired IAC connector. See the "first drive" post for details about that. And I doubt there was any time spent even trying to tune off-idle behavior.
I happily confess haven't even connected my laptop to the ECU so I don't know if it's in learn mode or not.
In terms of my approach to this: After all the "first time" work I'd done creating that engine harness, fabbing the fuel lines and water lines, etc, I just wanted to prove out that the engine would run and nothing leaked or burst into flames!
With that part complete, I couldn't resist the 100 yard "drive"!
Now it's on to making it "work". That means focus on the tune. Today I hope to get the software loaded and my laptop connected to the ECU. First thing is to download the currently loaded tune and see what's what.
I started this build with hardly any fabrication experience and I'm happy with how my skills progressed and the results I'm getting. Now it's time to do the same with the electrical and software stuff!
I'm sure I'll be asking for help so please keep the comments coming. Thanks much!
Oh, and now that it does run, many of the "what ifs" have left my head. We all know that nature abhors a vacuum so I suddenly find myself thinking about the hardest decision yet:
Which color do I paint it?
I'm a fan of blue and I'm going around on: the car's factory color (Anacona Blue Metallic), something more modern (early 2000s Subaru WRX blue) or something simple like Oslo blue.
Then there're things like Aventurine Green from the current Porsche palette. It looks GREAT with gold wheels, but so do any of the aforementioned blues...
Decisions, decisions. Well, I have a while before I need to decide.
Congratulations on the first drive! That's awesome!
Regarding color, one of my personal favorites is gulf theme especially on a GT car. Though I may be biased since that's the combo of my Squareback and 914 colors (blue VW and orange Porsche so combined they must be even better right??) Of course you'll always be driving too fast for anyone to see what color it is anyways so who cares!
I like the factory color on your car.
That gold special 930 gold...
Liquid Blue (Ford GT). Just a thought...
That is the best picture I have seen of that car, camera location and shot perspective is spot on.
Now get sorting, you got this!
Here's the Aventurine Green. I'd tone down the gold wheels a bit, or maybe do a more bronze color.
I talked with my painter yesterday and will be heading to his shop to talk in more detail and see some sample panels.
Attached image(s)
More importantly, I was able to connect with the shop that will likely be doing the EFI tuning. He viewed the start video and immediately replied with comments that led me to believe he really knows what he's doing. And I successfully connected my laptop to the ECU, downloaded the current tune and sent it to the tuner so he could start looking at things.
For sure, there are some basic things not set correctly. For example, it WILL NOT start without some application of the throttle, hence what you saw me doing. It's way over-fueling at startup. Yes, I know that's not right, but that's where things are.
I'm working with the tuner to get on calendar but not sure when that'll happen.
And for fun, here's my buddy's Speedster, painted by the shop I'm planning to use.
Note the consistency of the reflection as it crosses the door gap. I don't know if I'll choose to spend what it takes to get this level of result, but it's great to know the shop has the skill to do top quality work.
Attached thumbnail(s)
An LS based efi system (including your's) should prime the fuel circuit for 5-8 seconds with ignition powered up. I have a dedicated toggle switch so that I can cycle the fuel pump independent of the ecu control. Are you solely relying on the ecu to control the pump? Easy test is to wire up the pump directly and if it starts with a longer prime than there you go...
Ahh...troubleshooting! We all go through it one way or another, my friend. Carry'on...!
T
I'll be taking it in for alignment and corner balance so I decided I may as well bolt on everything needed to get close to final weight.
I figured I'd go ahead and see what the hood vent looks like riveted in from the top. Remember, this is the test hood and not necessarily the final version of the vent. Also, just standard pop rivets. But it gives me a good idea of this look.
I like it from some angles, from others, not as much. Still some work to do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I will say, I really like how the muffler looks! It's starting to look like a 914 again.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The outer rear corners of the vent look like they arch towards the front corners which may be an optical illusion but to fit the hood they should tail off towards the rear corners.
I'm thinking that to improve the visual of the hood vent, I'll work up a design that looks good on the car, then put vents where they fit and add "false" vents or maybe a cut-out or stamped area where vents can't go. A bit of form over function, but that's OK with me. Again, another item that's a work in progress where more noodling is needed.
Worst case, it's vent the fenders and leave the hood alone. But I'll admit, that just feels like giving up.
You can do it.
Think of the vents as the art and the surround as the decorative frame.
Chris that is a great looking butt. (and not in a gay way; not that there is anything wrong with that....)
While I love everything about this build, that rear firewall is just artwork in my mind. It just has this crazy "x-wing" fighter aircraft quality look to it, if that makes any sense, but at the same time it's simple in a good way. I know you said the car was loud, but I hope you don't cover up that metal work! ....it would be criminal!
Just throwing ideas out here Chris.
Something simple like a 935 though moved over to the hood with separation. Not sure the volume of air needed to escape from the coolers flow. Just architecture ideas.
Fantastic that it’s coming all to fruition now!
Attached image(s)
Porsche Sapphire blue, Looks pretty good, But I am prejudiced.
WOOHOO!!!! Congratulations on that maiden voyage. Made me smile ear to ear, and that induction system is insanely cool looking.
I know it is not a metallic color, but Adriatic Blue is still a great color on a 914.
I like that and would do it without the graphics.
Wait, you're suggesting I do something that's already been done? Where's the challenge in that?
But seriously, I'd like to believe I can come up with a hood vent design that's functional AND looks good (to me) AND is unique/fits with other elements of my build.
Can I? Well, we'll see. If not, I'll happily swipe someone else's ideas and give them full credit whenever discussing that component!
On the EFI front, it looks like I'm about 3 weeks out from an appointment with the tuner. In the meantime, I hope to get the alignment and corner balance done.
If I get REALLY lucky, this car will be a driving participant at WCR! Fingers crossed.
Sorry I am late on the blue color but this looks like Iris Blue on 86 911s sold to Dax and same as my 928
Bob
Attached image(s)
Show of hands: who else thinks the stock interior door latch/lock is ripe for an upgrade and solving for that should be my top priority?
(crickets)
OK, so just me? Well, I've been noodling on this one for a while and stumbled onto something that might work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSK5Zb7EHYI
Chris @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 I really like that. Your car is so far from stock that I say why not. I really like the look and functionality of that 944 door handle.
I love the door handle
Now you've gone and done it!!!! Now there'll be a run on 944 door handles, with supply drying-up, and prices through the roof :-)
Seriously though, a great idea!
Andys
I love the quick GT door pull loops. Hint.
I like it. I moved my interior door pull to work better with the gullwing doors, but I am not a fan of the split lock oem 914 handle. This is a nice option.
I know I’m late to the party re: blue/gold discussion but just came across this GT3 picture
Attached thumbnail(s)
If there was a milestone I was most worried about, it was this one: Alignment and corner balance.
With all the chassis work I did, especially the Tangerine raised rear suspension pickup points, I was a little freaked out that when I took it in, it wouldn't be able to be brought into spec.
Well, after a morning at Roger Krause Racing with none other than Brandon Krause doing the work, I'm ecstatic to report that everything worked out wonderfully!
Even bump steer checked, measured and set. Overall, things are in the "aggressive street" range.
The following items weren't installed at the time:
- GT headlight kit/headlight bucket assembiles/headlights
- windshield
- rear window
- passenger seat
- targa top
- misc. seals
In this state, the car weighs in at 2145. I was sure it'd be heavier than that. I'd bet I don't add more than about 100 lbs. putting all the remaining stuff in so with 518 hp, I'm at ~ 4.34 lb/hp. Yikes.
But in all, a VERY major milestone. Next, it's off to get the ITBs and ECU some love.
Attached thumbnail(s)
WOW! WOW! WOW! That is light! You were pretty close in you weights too.
Roger Krause Racing, (Grove Way in Castro Valley) has been there for decades and has always done great work.
Damn that's light!!! That's almost 400lbs lighter than the white car which is also an aluminum LS motor.
Seriously impressive!
Congrats! It's gonna be a monster!!!
Mission 914 on 9/14 accomplished.
I drove the car around the block, maybe just over a mile. Sorry, no video as I was flying solo and was otherwise occupied with the plethora of things one tries to watch and listen for on a "first time out".
I got the car into 4th gear, just to shift it a bit and that all went to plan.
The induction system is another matter. It's in serious need of tuning. Poor, poor drive-ability, backfires, etc.
I won't go into what I discovered already but I'm confident that once it's tuned by an expert, it'll be good to go. I'm trying to get the appt in the next couple weeks.
Until then, I did officially drive it on 914 day so hooray for me!
For now, it's back to the still-outstanding fab work and assembly of minor items.
More once it's back from the tuner. That's when the real fun should begin.
Congratulations man, that has to be an awesome feeling.
Great job, Chris!!!!!!!
That must have been a thrill
Well Done Chris! Happy Teener Day!!
Nice!
Congrats!!
It has been a great pleasure following your journey so far. Your skills and dedication are an inspiration.
Congratulations Chris. That is just awesome.
Whooo! Congrats Chris! Are you able to log and send to your tuner for reviews and tweaking?
[/quote]
I met the "drive my 914 0n 9/14" goal and the next one is that my car is an "active participant" at the Nov WCR. Wish me luck!
[/quote]
Congratulations!!! I signed up for the WCR with the hope I would see you driving the car. Looking forward to it. As always, your build is impressive and I feel like I learn something every time I catch up on this thread. Next to you I feel like an oil change tech at a Jiffy Lube!!
More of a journey and not the destination kind of a thing?
And I thought my fabrication skills were good. I'm humbly going to bed now. Very impressive.
Ready for tomorrow morning's trip to the tuner. With a bit of luck and tuner skill, I expect I'll be making the first, full road test by next weekend. The goal is to have it dialed in and ready for WCR in Nov.
And just to set expectations, that'll be with the windshield taped in, the roof taped on, no seals/weatherstripping, no interior, etc., etc.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Plasma table said it’s lonely. Ok, it’s me, I miss all the new cool bits you come up with.
May your tuner be pitch perfect and the road rise to you.
I dub this post "(Hopefully), you know you're working with the right tuner when:"
- you start your car to get it off the trailer, it fires right up and idles pretty well. You pull it into the shop and the tuner instantly says "yeah, that's not right..."
- ITBs are on every one of the engines in the shop.
- the restomod Pantera he's working on is easily Ridler/Singer-level build quality, and he did the engine wiring, which is all but invisible and what you can see is, well, perfect. I need to get pics of this thing. It's beyond incredible.
- every question (those who know me know I have lots!) is patiently and thoroughly answered.
He expects to have things essentially sorted in a few days, then I go back up late this week for an "I drive while he tunes" session.
Can't hardly wait!
I know the feeling when you find the right shop for the job. Glad your car is at the tuner to get it sorted. I can't wait for the driving video and to see it in person.
“He expects to have things essentially sorted in a few days, then I go back up late this week for an "I drive while he tunes" session.”
—————
That’s fantastic Chris. It’ll be great to see this engine at its potential !
PROGRESS!!!!
The tuner jumped right on it and reports that he's found and fixed a few issues. Some that I created...
Despite my best efforts, I had flipped a couple sensor wires. Embarrassing but I told you I'd be fully transparent. In my (weak-ass) defense, it was the first time I've done any wiring work and we all know I need at least 3 tries to get anything right!
Hey, at least I'm consistent!
I'm just thankful there are experts I can work with to help debug and fix my mistakes!
The good news is, it's getting there!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JuZC3077C4
Update II for the day:
Turns out I only messed up the wiring on one of the sensors. The tuner said the IAC was wired to what the Borla system needs but I ended up with a different model sensor. His perspective is that the "mis-wiring" isn't something I could have known about and he gave me a pass on that one.
So, I'm only 1/2 as bad a wiring tech as I thought I was 20 minutes ago!
But this sort of thing makes me wonder how many folks are out there with poorly performing systems and are only a simple wire swap away from greatly improved drive-ability. Remember, the car starts and runs, just not as well as it should/could. And a big part of my car's issue is/was the ITBs being in sync and having a correctly adjusted linkage.
But this wiring thing is perhaps a good example of a situation that could lead to folks hearing that ITBs don't work well at anything but WOT/race pace.
I watch a LOT of tuner videos and Dyno shop owners. This is so common that its always the first thing they check... Injector wiring, IAT wiring, MAF wiring, and a few other common ones.
Awesome progress! This is the kind of thing you would waste months or years (my case) chasing. The few extra dollars you pay for a quality tuner are worth their weight in gold.
please delete
First drive after ITB sync, linkage adjust and new tune being loaded. It's the tuner driving - I wasn't there. And yes, he apologized for the less than stellar video. The rattle you hear is the shifter. The car has no tunnel cover, carpets, or glass so it's quite noisy.
All the adjustments and tuning prior to this drive video was done with the car sitting still, before any of the critical "tune while driving" work, so still a ways to go.
The tuner is recommending I get the car home and take care of a couple things we now know need addressing. In particular, the throttle tip in is too abrupt, which has been a concern since it first fired up, as you all know. I have some ideas about how to improve it, now that we know for sure it needs help.
So, I'm heading up to tomorrow to retrieve it, redesign the throttle linkage and address a couple other things like put in the windshield (!) then it goes back up and I drive while he tunes.
In the meantime, it is drivable so I expect to take it out this weekend and start to get to know a bit more about what I've created. Should be "interesting". Getting closer every day...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf-O4McFE7E
Chris,
I'd be happy to supply a Gopro and windshield mount for future "Test Drives"
Love the sound of that engine!
After time with the tuner, most stuff has been fixed but he was struggling with a consistent "hanging idle". Something's up where the butterflies don't/won't return to fully closed and it ends up with a 1500+ RPM idle. A blip of the throttle lowers vacuum and the idle settles in where it's supposed to be. So it could be that there's an issue with one or more of the return springs.
The tuner was in touch with the Borla engineer and there's agreement that something may have happened when the ITBs were messed with to remove the return springs.
Anyway, I drove about 10 miles yesterday and this issue makes it "not fun" to drive.
The tuner gave me a couple homework assignments and I'm trying to take care of them today. But I suspect the throttle bodies will be making a trip back to Borla to be inspected/reset.
I don't fault the tuner or Borla. Sometimes we are presented with situations that aren't what we hoped. While I certainly find this frustrating, I'm choosing to view it as a learning experience. I will come out of it with a far better understanding of this tech and my car.
Now, on a totally different note, here's the Pantera I mentioned earlier, along with an Aston Martin V12. What's that partially completed induction system on the V12 you ask? Oh, just a one-off stack system that the tuner designed and had fabricated from scratch.
And there's my ratty little 914, staring longingly at the tech-porn and eye candy it spent a few days with.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Panteras have always had an engine bay for the ages, but that one contains art full stop. Wow.
It was not long after my drive in the Pantera that the article came out with the V8 in a 914. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
My second favorite after the Countach.
The throttle bodies are headed back to Borla. They said it should be a quick turnaround so I may, may, may be able to have the car running for WCR. Fingers crossed!
In any case, since I can't mess with things that require the car runs/drives, I have some unexpected free time... And you know what they say about "idle hands being the Devil's workshop". Time for some more style points.
So. Just because I can't afford a 935 doesn't mean I can't steal some of its design ques!
This is V1 and only part way done. I'm still noodling on the length of the extension and # of supports. 4 looks OK but maybe 5 to echo the look of the Ronal wheels? Or go with 8, like the 935?
I think I like 4 or 5. Regardless, I think it looks far better than "plain".
Attached thumbnail(s)
Suddenly I'm thinking "Bond, James Bond"
I would say 5. 8 may start being restrictive.
I'd like to see 5 myself. Al's what about making the tips bigger?
Too bad you sent back the throttle bodies, I'd love to know if it made a sound difference.
Chris - the cookie-cutter tips were used on earlier cars than the 935 too, like the 906 and (pictured here) the 910:
Traditionally 6 segments were used, but I like your idea of 5 to match the Ronal wheels,
- Tony
Dig the cutters, and particularly the five- or six-blade idea, but the baddest 914 muffler of all—in both aesthetics and noises—remains the one used to win Le Mans. A lot of the aftermarket sport mufflers out there (including the Dansk 57mm on my car) are close but no cigar when it comes to the detailing...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I worked out a little fixture for the exhaust inserts that makes it easy to accurately locate the 5 vanes.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I may go with this look or may work up another version. Still noodling on it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Does it change the sound any? I've been playing with some homemade exhaust ideas including removable inserts.
Thanks for the update Chris. I was just wondering how the engine was doing and if you got the injection sorted yet.
Any updates? Trying to work out if I can make it to WCR. I want to see this in person
Vortex reversal
The rebuilt throttle bodies will be here next week. That should address the hanging idle issue.
On the "abrupt throttle response at tip in", I found this part from EFI Hardware out of Australia. It has a far more progressive cam profile than the stock one. Fingers crossed that between this and some adjustment at the pedal, I'll have a softer throttle.
I should be back on the road and doing more development by mid next week.
Attached image(s)
The throttle bodies are back and part way installed. Turns out the new linkage cam will require a different set of throttle cable ends so I've ordered the needed items.
In the meantime, I decided I wanted a version of the access panel that didn't require the carbon inserts. So I cut and pressed a new set of panel pieces.
I took some time to tune up the stamping dies and got a really nice result. Now to weld up the seams...
And there's virtually no way my car will be ready for WCR but attendees are welcome to come by the Red Barn to see it, if that's of any interest. I'm about 3 miles from the Motel. And I have beer...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking forward to seeing the progress.
Sweet fabrication
Thanks for the FIX Man
- Throttle bodies factory refreshed with all return spring correctly installed? Check!
- New bell crank/capstan with (hopefully) improved, more progressive off-idle throttle response? Check!
- Updated throttle cable needed to work with the zippidy do-dah capstan? Nope, those parts won't be here until next week...
Well, that doesn't stop me from firing it up. And fire up it does. Same tune as before and notice that with all the return springs in place, it settles right back to idle!
Given the current tune was set to try and compensate for what neither the tuner nor I understood about the messed up return springs and how that was driving the hanging idle issue, I'm confident this thing will be even more snappy, once it's fully dialed in.
So, there is a WAAAAY outside chance it'll be able to make a very brief appearance at WCR. Fingers crossed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8yQt_Zrzpg
Fingers crossed.
I should know better than to get near my car when waiting for parts - I seem always to find something to re-do. Going in, I just KNOW it's bound to be an improvement!
Today as I was looking at the access panel I was about to redo for the 3rd time , it struck me that instead of welding the panels together, I could rivet them.
That should (?) leave me with a more cohesive look, IMO, given all the other rivet lines in the interior. Remember, the top panel of the console will be riveted on and using rivets on the access cover will carry the look right up to the rivet line at the top of the firewall.
Back to CAD, then cut and stamp new side panels! I extended them enough to be able to radius bend them and end up with a return to which the front panel will be riveted. Forgive my drawn on rivets, I just wanted to get a feel for the look.
I think I'll put a step in the returns so the front panel sits flush vs one panel thickness proud, as in this pic. Still some trimming and fitting to do, but you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Dig It
I used the bead roller to add the step then notched the corners so the center panel ends up in the proper plane. The second pic show sorta how the panels come together.
Once I step and notch the other side, I need to narrow up the center panel to fit. Ideally, it'll still look OK in terms of the width from the outside edge to where the stamped recess starts.
If not, I'll need to remake the center panel stamping dies and make a new center panel that accounts for the amount trimmed off... But I think I do like this look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's good to have options.
- The one on the left is a pure temporary that I can run while doing all the "get it running and driving" stuff. It'll never be worked to any higher finish.
- The middle one will be finished, painted and have the carbon inserts bonded into the openings. This will be the "fancy" one.
- The one on the right? I'll use panel bond, same as I did on the other fire wall panels. It'll then be painted and get the same structural rivets as the rest of the fire wall.
Now what can I re-do?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Im getting a Predator vibe from the Cleco version.
The Clecos give it a Steam Punk vibe
Glued and screwed! Well, bonded and cleco'd anyway. This is the same structural panel bond I used on the fire wall components.
But more importantly:
The throttle cable parts came in. I made the cable. Then I
The new bell crank cam worked WONDERS! The throttle response has been transformed and I actually enjoyed my run around the block. It's not perfect and I'm going to see if I can come up with something at the pedal end of things to get a bit more off idle progression. But even if I can't, I think I could live with what I have now. Especially once I swap out to the smaller bore clutch master.
So. It seems my car will make at least a brief appearance at WCR after all.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Definitely more steam punk. Now you just need to redo everything again and use more copper this time
Seriously cool. Can't wait to see this in person
Outstanding Chris. I am looking forward to seeing and hearing it in person.
Chris - I am near your place this afternoon..... I want to see it!!!!!
I wire wheeled the panel bond out of the visible areas of the seams, hit it with a lick of primer and added temporary rivets. These are regular ol' pop rivets, not the structural ones I'll use once everything is painted. They're easy enough to remove and I just had to see what the cover would look like a bit more complete.
Note that the upper and lower most rivets are missing since they're only decorative - the area behind them is where the dog house needs to be notched to clear the back of the rivet. Anyway...
Gotta say, I'm happy with how this turned out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very tidy.
Everyone keeps talking about how I'm going to cover up the fire wall. At this point, the plan is to NOT cover it. I'll use some sort of heat/sound material on the engine side but I want to leave the fire wall and console viewable. Painted, but viewable.
The real issue is whether to paint the interior body color, black or maybe something that works with the body color...
But until I prove it's not going to work due to sound volume or some sort of resonance, I want all this stuff to be "in plain sight".
I have no insulation on the motor side of my firewall. Now it ain't no V8 but I can't really hear the engine over the normal wind noise at speed.
Just get noise cancelling headphones.
You do amazing work.
I should probably keep my trap shut but I never do so here goes.
There is one thing I noticed about that picture. The "X" section of the upper panels is raised but the "X" section of the two lower panels is depressed. It is a minor thing and doesn't take away from your craftsmanship in the least, but to my eye, it looks a little inconsistent.
I spent some time and have done all I can to optimize the set up of the new bell crank and am happy to report I think I've achieved a throttle pedal feel I can live with. I think it's pretty good but to verify I'm not just used to some horrible pedal, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 has agreed to take my car for a test drive (hopefully tomorrow!) and report back if the pedal feel meets his high standards.
Thanks Mark!
If it needs more progression, I'm back to trying to add some sort of linkage at the pedal end of things or making my own bell crank... Hopefully, Mark will find it "good to go".
Fingers crossed.
With the throttle issue awaiting 3rd party testing, I found myself staring at the hood vent and feeling no better about it. I went back to that part of this build thread (page 130) and reviewed Tony's @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 design.
I REALLY like it and IMO, it's the best looking 914 hood vent design I've ever seen.
So, I gave Tony a call and we talked through how we might get from his drawn design to my car's hood.
Tape seemed like a good start. Note this was my initial rough-out. Things changed as Tony and I talked.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One of the first issues is that the underside support structure prevents this wonderful shape from being sliced out. Here's the best I can get with NO mods to the support structure.
You can see by the holes that I've committed to giving this a full-on attempt.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Aaaaaaaaand, there's the horribly rough cut hole. Let me remind you that this hood was tweaked and had a ton of bondo on it already.
DISCLAIMER: No nice hood was harmed in the making of this proof of concept.
Back to the serious stuff: It looks like the resulting airway may actually work.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, I cut the hole on the other side. New in this pic is that after reviewing Tony's design, I noticed I'd not accounted for the .375-ish reveal at the back of the headlight and up the edge of the hood. Here's the comparison.
I'm with Tony and will be adding the reveal, as pictured on the passenger side.
This is also a benefit in that it moves that side of the opening in .375 and gives me a bit more flexibility in terms of what I can do to remove parts of the support structure to gain more vent opening area.
Then it was "tape up the center vent" in preparation for road testing to see if this design flows adequately.
I need to point out that up to this point, my cooling system has over performed. The car struggles to get to temp. So much so that my next step is to remove the thermostat and run the electric water pump with the ECU. I'll spin it not at all (or very slowly) at start up, and ramp it up as the temp climbs. The ECU does this via PWM (pulse width modulation) signal and can run the radiator fans the same way. I can program the pump and the fans to do exactly what's needed. It's just a matter of understanding what that is...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very Nice, I am going to be cutting my hood soon for an exhaust for the fans. I like seeing new ideas. Not sure what I am going to do. I did learn that when cutting a hood you quickly see what existing bracing was working and what is not. Took me an entire day to fix a 10 minute sawzall blast.
I was thinking about making 1 vent at the top near the windshield but I like the 2 side vent idea you created. I dont have much landscape with my new fenders though.
My radiator has a temp guage in it which kicks on my fans and the engine temp decides how fast to fun the electric pump. If you have any questions I can ask my friend that programmed it for me, he is very good with the GM engines and ecu stuff. how close is your water pump plate to your firewall?
Here's Tony's original design sketch, just so you don't have to go looking.
Attached image(s)
And as always, I'll do the full transparency thing. Here's my initial effort at a vent design.
I'm trying to reuse my center vent "bendy vent panel" design and adapt it to this new shape. Obviously quite a way to go and there are a couple challenging areas so final outcome is TBD, but you get an idea of how my pointed little head approaches this sort of part. At least so far.
Attached image(s)
BigKat once told me that the air inlet to his radiator was the size of the 6 cylinder oil cooler opening. LS motors just seem to run cooler. Hot air is approximately 1.7 times the cool volume so math at your most restrictive point.
Looking at the rest of the car I have no doubt it will look cool.
Love it.
Chris- I really like the new design. I just could not warm up to the center vent.
I like it!
I think if you ran JUST this it would be fine. If you ran both this and the fender vents it would be double fine
I worked up version 1 of the vent design. As usual, I'll need to see these on the car and adjust from there, as needed.
Yes, I know I can't tip all the vents into position, given the current opening but this will give me the physical model I need to noodle through exactly what I need to do to make this work.
I'll cut one side, tweak until I'm happy, then apply the final (ha!) changes to the other side.
Ultimately, I'll use a fiberglass or carbon hood where it's far easier to cut/change the support structure to resolve any clearance challenges.
Another BIG thanks again to Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 for suggesting this design.
Pics of one of these in metal this afternoon, if all goes to plan.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Version 1 of the vent panels. As usual, seeing it "in the metal" and on the car lets me start to understand what I like, what I don't, what may change, etc., etc...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the actual first one I cut. I measured one angle incorrectly and realized another needed to be changed. But that didn't prevent me from bending the vents into position to get a bit better feel for the look.
My first reaction was that it looks maybe a little "heavy" and that perhaps resizing the height of the vents (using more of them in the same space) would be worth a go.
As always, it's a work in progress that will likely see a few more versions, up to and including a completely different approach. Yep, same ol', same ol' from me.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I agree with Andrew on that. The vents need to be scaled down in size and maybe add a couple more to make them fit the space? But I like where this is headed for sure.
A little thinner on the individual vents but other than that, you nailed it.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5245 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712
Yep, I've got a newer, slimmer, improved version partly done. And I'm thinking maybe narrow up the frame. It's 1" as is, maybe take it down to .75?
Make everything a bit less "tough" looking?
The other thing I messed with that I like is the scree/mesh look. Clearly, the shape of the opening would need to be other than what's shown here, more like the sharpied size but with the same corner detail as the vents?
I will say that to me, this look is more elegant, more sophisticated than the vents. I could use the same material on the hood, front bumper opening and GT lid to drive some continuity.
The cool thing is "it's just a hood". I could make a couple different ones, just like the fire wall access panel, and swap looks as I wanted to.
Just more to consider. Ain't custom fab stuff a gas?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Get some honeycomb mesh, Larger openings. I think the thin mesh looks off.
It looks like too big of an opening for the mesh to me visually. What about making it similar to the vents with several smaller mesh openings. Excuse my poor/hasty editing skills.
Attached image(s)
I want to know if you are going to stamp the mesh to add another profile to the finished products.
I texted Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 this morning and attached this pic. My message was "OK, Tony, here you go. Proof that your design is possible."
A bit of slicing and dicing and the prototype panel can drop into place. I will say, it takes on a different look once it's down in the hood. I'm liking it! Especially that rear view.
In place, a couple things stand out as needing mods, IMO:
- the vents stick up a bit too much. Looking back at Tony's design, his pivot even with the upper edge.
- the upper edge of the frame seem in a bit of conflict with the trailing edge of the hood. Instead of what's there now (90 degrees to the center line of the hood), maybe add a bit of forward/inward sloping angle? Not a lot, just something that hints it's not 90.
And yes, I had to open things up past the fuel tank bulk head. But I'm confident I can work up a solution for that.
Onward to updating the design.
Attached thumbnail(s)
How does it interfere with the headlight mechanism? I can see it on the left in the second pic. Have you run the motor to check for interference?
I like what you have. I take back my honeycomb concept.
This is looking a lot better. I agree with the back edge of the vent not flowing with the back end of the hood. I also wonder how the vents would look if they finished out flush with the hood surface- so the vents are not proud of the hood. Or is it just the picture that makes them look like they rise above the hood? But, all said, I am really liking the look.
Have you considered a louvered panel ot louvers in the hood itself?
Narrow , not too tall.
Here's an idea just to make things more difficult to execute. Cut the wire pattern to fit inside the opening between each angled metal slat, keeping the wire pattern even with the top of the hood. This process uses both components.
Chris - as discussed, the original intent was the edge of the cut out needs to follow the line of the headlight cutout as shown below in the two pics - with some really bad visual editing on the "fixed" pic:
...and I realize you may not be able to do this easily on the steel mock up.
Either way - looks completely awesome!
- Tony
A new day, a new design. V1 wasn't doing it for me - the "tab bend" approach requires some amount of gap in certain areas and the more I looked at it, the more it looked a bit too raw or crude. I think I can do better and come up with something that looks more "finished".
So this morning was an update to a simple cut line to define each vent. Note that the red line isn't a cut - it represents the bend line for each vent.
This approach results in a .375" flat at the front of each vent. The goal is something like the 2nd pic.
Today's effort will be to cut one of these and see how it works out.
Attached image(s)
Here's the look I'm after for this version...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then maybe something like this to finish it off, but using a more open mesh.
Attached image(s)
I think you are on the right track. I can't wait to see the results.
After messing about with the design, I cut one ( geez, how old am I?) and went after bending the vents. It immediately apparent it doesn't need those little arcs in the corners at the bend. I thought they'd add some style points but they actually detract.
Anyway, here's how I ended up bending the vents. I didn't have this clamping model totally worked out on that first little vent so its bend radius isn't as crisp as it should be. Won't happen again, I promise!
Attached thumbnail(s)
You can see I also updated the notch area. I couldn't resolve that top angle to my liking so decided to try this look.
Note that I just snipped the lower edge of any vents that interfered with the panel sitting down in the hood. I'll work all that out and see if I can account for it in the design.
Overall, I do like it better than V1. That said, there are a couple angles where it reminds me of a home heater floor vent! Maybe with the vent sides and mesh added, I'll un-see that...
One potential update I think I will do is to narrow the frame dimension. Keep the same outer dimension and widen the vents. In the full frontal shot, the frame seems a bit too much.
In any case, I need to look at it on the car for a couple days and see what I think.
In the meantime, I welcome your constructive criticism.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Speaking of that full frontal shot, with the fog light delete grills I plan to run, the vents are practically begging to run directly side to side. I think I'll make one with horizontal vents and see with that looks like.
Another possible idea is have them drop down less, shorten up the slat part, say to an inch. You could then consider more slats. This would also get rid of the interference problem with the wheel well.
I dig watching all this.
Try bending over a bigger radius....air rollout
I like it,
I just wonder about making it line up with the headlight bucket as was previously mentioned.
Here's tomorrow's "horizontal" test version. Plain as this may be, I think it's going to look pretty cohesive. Maybe not as dramatic, but still pretty cool. We'll soon see.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Loving this. If it moves enough air to cool well, it's a winner. Be careful, you'll have orders!
You need to decide if you want form or function - it is possible to have both but there is a reason I have never seen a race car with hood venting set outside. This tells us something, ehh?
You have the skills to execute something I have always wanted to do but have not - a chambered/funneled closure from the radiator through the hood.
Tony
Have you given any thought to what color the vents would be painted? I think way back in the original rendering they were done in black. It looked really cool from the front! In looking at your pictures you see a lot inside the trunk. How you paint the inside of the trunk will make a difference with those large openings between the vents. Depending on the angle your viewing, the contrast between black vents and body color inside the trunk may be unappealing. Maybe some large black mesh under vents? Maybe paint front trunk area black? Maybe body colored vents and trunk. Anyway some more thoughts. Looking good!
How long before you decide you want them motorised to vary the amount of airflow ?
Seriously though I think they are a little 'chunky'. Particularly in the head on shot - there's too much contrast with the size of the foglight grills ? Just IMO - whatever you do it's incredible.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11762 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 - Probably no motorized actuation. Well, at least not until I get a working design for a fixed vent.
Speaking of which - I'm not liking the look of a vent that's made up of a a single layer of sheet metal. So it's on to the next revision. This one is a first go at a "frame with vent slat positioners" approach. Once the crossmembers are bent into position, they serve as the mounting surface for the slats, which I can now make from something thicker to get the look I want.
Here's the old vs new look. The new one is wider (same width as the headlight cut out) and a bit shorter. I also moved it up the hood to make it simpler to deal with the hood's support structure. I'm still doing some head-scratching about that. With the vents in the hood, I really don't need to worry about the hood seal, at least not from the fuel tank bulkhead forward.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Another of the current design size and location.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next I hacked together an initial mock up of a vent slat, just to get a feel for what this multi-part model might be like.
I'm thinking I can shape the slats to overlap the frame, add some style points and help create a bit of Gurney flap effect.
For a first go at what I might really use for slats, I've ordered some 3/16" X 2" balsa wood strips that I'll shape into the individual vent slats, then cover with fiberglass. I think a slat with some dimension to it will address the issue I have with the sheet metal slat look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Balsa wood and fiberglass -5HP
Carbon Fiber +15HP
Like it, also added the fact that was bugging me, you where not generating low pressure behind the flaps. Would have worked, but this should help draw the air out the vents at speed. Even though you should not have an issue with high pressure of the nose.
Every little bit helps.
BTW, I like it, but would do carbon as you have built that them in the rest of the car. Paint it and show the weave or just keep it black with UV protection. Enbed som captive nuts in the balsa flaps and then use some bolts, Machine screws, etc...
You do know with this design, you could change the stationary flaps for mechanical flaps or servo operated flaps that would open and close as needed.
Impressive work. Great job
Thanks for the suggestions re: heat-sensing, auto-opening, self-lighting vents. I'll see if I can figure out all that...
But for now:
I want to do my best to keep a consistent design theme. Well, at least one that makes sense to me. The interior and other aspects of the car are sorta industrial, what with the stampings and rivets and I think the vents need to avoid looking too refined.
What to do? I put the V1 vent back in place and tried to understand what it was I didn't like and why it looked crude.
I'd already decided the overall shape would change and that I wanted to try a total of 7 vents. Then I zeroed in on the vent's upper edge as needing to be softened; the corners were too abrupt and it had that dead flat upper edge. Neither of those shapes seem to fit.
A minute with the snips and I have a proof of concept re: different corner radii. I didn't even try to address the flat edge. (Pay no attention to the horrid Sharpie lines. I was messing with the idea of a center strake.)
A big improvement, IMO. Certainly worth making one to see it in real life.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Back to the electronic drawing board. It would be perfect if I ended up with this design, what with it being V8!
And to add a slight curve to the vent's upper edge, I couldn't help trying out a radius that pays homage to the car!
Note this version also narrows the gap between the vents' outer edges and the frame and retains a corner notch that could be used to locate a hood pin, should that become a thing I need to consider.
Now to see if I like it in real life.
Attached image(s)
The latest design just cut. For those who may be interested, here are a couple pics to show what level of detail can be cut with plasma. That's a .1" gap between the frame and vent. That said, it's not like laser cut, but for my purposes, I'm really happy with its performance.
Attached image(s)
In place. Aaaaaaaand, it's a no! What's wrong this time?
- too large a radius on the vent corners
- too much vent blade above the bend - I think they look a bit tall
The good news is the 91.4 radius looks like it'll work! Of course I'll have to point that out anytime I'm asked about the vents but, how cool is that?
Attached thumbnail(s)
I think I do like the 7 vent look. It's maybe hard to tell in the pics but, overall, I think the scale looks good with the rest of the car. They look pretty cool from most angles, very cool from some!
And just so you know, all these trial pieces have been cut from one piece of 18 ga cold rolled scrap that I picked up for $10. Pretty inexpensive prototyping!
Back to CAD and V9...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I vote for 1 vent per cylinder:)
I think this is a bitchin' look from this angle. It's almost there.
I'll give you a new idea that fits the theme of the car.
I do not think the gills are adding anything to the look, this gives you a bit more detail, while maintaining a stubble details that make this build so much fun to watch.
Gladly grant you rights to this IP
And working on a new medium should provide a bit of frustration to make it worth your while.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 Stephen - I'm not ready to give up on the vents. I do like the mesh look, as you know from my earlier pic in post #3120. But give me a few more tries at the vents. Heck, I'm only up to version 9!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 - To your "votes" comment: You're a dick.
Seriously, thanks for the kind words, but please, don't you have a car to get running?
Version 9 ready to cut and here's the V8 (on the left) to V9 comparo.
- tighter corner radii
- less vent height once bent (the bend location was moved up the vent blades)
- increased vent size (height)
- outer vent edges clipped so once they're bent into place, they clear the hood's support structure
Hopefully, I'm getting close to something that'll work.
Attached image(s)
Have you calculated the opening area this design provides you in square inches, compared that to the radiator area and then allow for thermal expansion?
In relation to articulated motorized vents, have you considered getting a Gyro system and using that along with the motorized vents to keep front end lift down? You know this things going to fly Elon is having a gyro sale.
V9 looks much better.
V9 in real life. After working with this "bend-a-vent" design, I think this is about as good a result as I'm going to get. And I think it'll work. I will do a final tweak on the outer edge of the vents where they need to clear the hood support structure. You can see I got pretty close. I'm also going to widen the frame a teeny bit, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I figured I may as well give a go to an initial mock up of the vent screen. Before you complain about the material, it's all I happened to have laying around. Think "proof of concept". I only had enough mesh to do a few of the openings.
You can see it's a pretty simple set of Z-bends. The fun part will be closing off the "sides" of the screen, at the end of each vent. I'm thinking I'll fab some "walls" that drop vertically from the frame. We'll see.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And sorta in place. I will say, the mesh does a nice job of finishing the vents. I'm happy with how this is starting to look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
LOOKING REALLY GOOD. I like the direction it's going. That screen really adds pop to it. Will you be building ductwork to force the air into those vents or are letting the air into the front trunk and then exhaust out the vents?
Very nice work, indeed!
Keep in mind that the screen will restrict some air low, which may be significant depending on your selection.
Again, nice work, and acutely interested in the final design.
Andys
Oh yeah. That looks great. I like the screening and the idea of closing off the sides. That is a winning design and I bet you will be getting requests for some of those from fellow large HP enthusiasts for their builds.
The screen looks great!
I really like the screen added to the vents...finishes it off nicely!
Yes on the screen, looks much more finished, and will keep the critters out.
Another day, another design. I won't bore you with the details other than to say I had to make updates to make the "walls" fit the way I thought they should.
I made a template to get the shape of the hood and shaped the initial outer wall piece accordingly.
Then it was tack it to the frame and see what's what. The wall really adds a more finished look.
Yes, another design update will be happening now that I see how this contraption looks like it's going to fit.
Also, once the walls are in place, I have a nice guide to see exactly where I need to trim the hood. For example, I'll remove more of the support structure so it doesn't show under that outer wall, as it does in the pic. Now to work up the other wall parts and get this whole thing put together.
It's turned out to be a lot of work but it's coming along.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It seems like the screens will work at idle but what about when the car is moving how will the air exit are they like louvers.
I would think the angle of the louvers could make a big difference. Hopefully even creating a low pressure area that will help draw the air out when dialed in.
Screens add a really nice visual touch for sure, and the workmanship—as always—is gorgeous.
Instead of a wall along the inside edge, can you cut the mesh in such a way that you can bend it up at the end to fill the triangular gap?
I'm not thermal or aerodynamic engineer but my thought is the hot air will flow across the relatively flay underside of the hood and the wall you are proposing will disrupt the flow forcing the air to go down to clear the wall and then make a 180 degree turn to go up the wall to exit.
If you replace the wall with mesh, the air has a cleaner exit path.
I expect the effect of the wall will be minimal in the total airflow exiting the vent but it seems an unnecessary disruption.
I think you need to go to the Jim Hall school of aerodynamics i.e. yarn, tape and driving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0rXyMwFMUI
I would conjecture the air wants to hit the raised louver perpendicular to the air-flow
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20159 - Yep, but first I need to build vents that I can test. At this point, I'm operating on the assumption that it's more a question of sheer air flow volume. As I mentioned, my car currently over-cools so I'm less concerned about the absolute performance of the vents. They just have to work "well enough" to allow for adequate cooling.
If the vent design inhibits or otherwise negatively impacts getting sufficient airflow, then I'll have to look at something else.
For those of you who may get tired of my never ending, iterative approach, apologies. I really am making it up as I go along.
Today, it's all the way back to Square 1. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony's design has a far more finished look than the "bend-a-vents". I'd really like to see if I can get closer so I'm going to try and fab a "frame-then-vents" model. I feel like I need to try this, just to see how it turns out.
Here's the initial design. The cut lines are in black, the bend lines are in red. It'll have a .8" frame and I'll bend down the walls. The .5" slits in the walls will be where and how I locate the separately made vents. I THINK I got the calculations right so that once the walls are bent, the locating slits will line up at all the correct angles. We shall see.
And yes, there are a few spots where I'll have to make a piece to connect the wall corners once they are folded into place.
And @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5245 - Great minds. You can see I'd already accounted for an attempt to open up the inner wall as much as I can. The issue with simply bending the mesh to close everything off is that, without a wall, I end up with a visible seam in the mesh that has zero chance of looking very good.
Attached image(s)
Trackspec has some interesting looking louver designs:
https://trackspecmotorsports.com/shop-by-part/hood-louvers
I treated myself to a GoPro! Based on the recommendation of @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18454 Matt, I went with the Hero8 Black. Thanks Matt!
Anyway, I figured I should figure out how to make it work and what better motivator than sticking it on my car and taking them both out for a short test drive. I'm still tweaking the throttle linkage and wanted to give the latest adjustments a try.
A couple things:
- I needed to re-clock one of the fuel line connections and left off the fire wall access panel so when you see me glancing back, I'm just triple checking there are no fuel leaks.
- The back window isn't in the car and the camera is suction cup mounted to the engine lid.
- You'll see the car get a little squirrelly just before I turn back into my lane. There was a damp spot, the clutch is still quite abrupt and I didn't rev match, there's a ton of engine braking and the tires are surely cold. Still, I wasn't expecting that!
- I can't believe how much hair I've lost!
Boy, oh boy, I LOVE that intake roar. All this said, the tune has not yet been updated since the throttle body and bell crank updates so I'm expecting even more improvements once it has another session with the tuner.
And with the GoPro, now when I'm in the shop, I can make those fast-motion videos of everything I do to my car! I know you can't wait for those.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3JK6xlMMlg
Nice video, car sounds great and one can tell it is going to haul @$$ when you put your foot into it.
What do you think of the gearing with that transmission?
I am smiling ear to ear! Dang, that's got to feel good! Sounds awesome!
That sounded so good. You need to add a passenger seat in that bay for the next time I come over.
It sounds awesome and it's working so well. No wind noise from the camera, only beautiful music!
Sounds and runs great!!!! Congrats! Can't wait to see more video!
The gopro 8 is a great choice!!! Dad and I use a 7B and I have a spare 5B but as I found out at WCR it has horrible wind buffering. I want to try the new 9 if there is a BF deal. One can never have to many gopros
Oh that tone change when the RPMs climb
ps
Your steering wheel makes me think of Andorians...
Had a few really nice pulls with some sweet, heavy breathing from your exhaust...she sounds like rocket!
Vent testing. Let me start by saying that this isn't yarn. And it's too stiff. But, in typical fashion, it's all I had on hand.
Next, please excuse the horrid belt squeal when the fans come on. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 has been after me to tighten it since the day he and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert helped with the first start.
All that said, it sure seems like there's sufficient airflow as the fans will cycle off after just a bit. And re: the too stiff, you can see the string does bob around nicely, once it's been freed from whatever it was hung up on. Those little vents closest to the corners sure don't seem to do much! But something is likely better than nothing.
Next up: the road test!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzp4LucAZTc
Also, the testing is happening with this latest version of the vent.
Changes include adding a notch in the lower, outside corner. This greatly simplifies clearing the area of the support structure where that rubber-nubber height adjuster screws in.
An added bonus is that I can slide the vent that much closer to the headlight opening.
But best update of all? It's al-u-MINI-um!
I used .063 material and it gives the vent just a bit more visual heft, which I prefer. Plus it weighs nothing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Let's get some wind tunnel time. Someone else scoffed at my comment about the angle of the louvers affecting potential airflow lift or low pressure. It does matter.
Suction the GoPro to the hood, aim it at the vent and off we go. This is after the car has warmed up a bit.
And this is the first time I've "floored it". Wheelspin, baby... Hence that slow shift to 2nd. I am on a public road, after all. Back to the vent test:
Before you comment, please note that I actually did this video before the earlier fan test so the string didn't blow back into the positions you see in this video. This is where they started. Again, I'll redo these tests with yarn or some more suitable material.
I'm no aerodynamicist but, does it look like maybe I could use a Gurney flap right at the front of the vent? Non-yarn aside, it seems those lower vents could use some help.
And remember, the car still doesn't have an overheating problem. In fact, that earlier fan test was after this drive, then sitting in the shop, running for another few minutes to even get the fans to come on.
OK, enough from me - let the critiques begin!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3KUuusPffs
I have to say, this is a pretty momentous occasion for me. Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 drew up what I think is the best looking H2O cooled 914 vent set up I've ever seen and today, I drove my car with real live versions of his design in place and functioning.
I say "his design" and by that I mean, the closest I could get with my current skill set. I hope I did you proud, my friend.
Tony,
THANK YOU so much for taking time to do that drawing as well as all that time you spent talking with me about all the details. You have added what I think is the key design element in my build.
I owe you BIG TIME.
Thanks again!
Man, I LOVE this forum.
Clearly I am out of my depth. I look at the strings and see the car is moving and they are just blowing with the wind hitting them. How does that show air being drawn from the radiator out of the vents? If you tied string to the same location on the driver's side, would the string not blow around too?
How about a fogger machine you sit in front of the car and turn on to see if the smoke comes out the vents?
OK, never mind, my mom always told me, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". I never learn.
Yes you are seeing the flow, the one real way to know is with smoke generator in front of the RAD and drive, and see where it leaks out. My guess is it will come out the vents, it almost has too, some might seep out around your seals, and if your separation seal is bad or not in, might come into your cowl area and seep out into the interior.
Other way would be with infrared video look at the temp difference in the airflow, or temp sensors placed all over the car.
A set of vortex generators would work also. Pull the airflow down over the vents.
You are fine if it is working. And if you run into issues, well you can always add ducting to help the airflow go where you need it.
If it becomes and issue you add ducting.
If it really becomes and issue, add a small snowmobile engine and a cooling fan off an M1 Abrams tank, its magnesium so it weights nothing. You will be cleaning the street as you drive. And you will see the trash fly up in front of you so you know it is working as it should.
Chris,
What are the specs on your radiator fans (Dia. CFM, amps)? Apologies in advance if you posted them before.
Thanks,
Andys
I liked your idea a few months ago of altering the water pump speed based upon the coolant temperature...scaling as needed in either direction. That had some real teeth but of course, you could not see that - it likely would have just worked.
Not feeling this design but if you are happy with it then that is all that matters. From a functional viewpoint, I don't see anyway that is an improvement for several reasons, over many tried and true venting designs. If you just want to vent your hood differently, so be it. Would it be better on a racetrack at the limit? I think not but also could certainly be wrong...
BTW: Your car sounds great during the front mounted test - great job!
I love the yarn test! It is such a very helpful tool for us home builders. Idk if it was just the stiffness of the "yarn" or that there was not a lot of them in the front of the vent, but the airflow didn't seem to be as robust in front. This may be totally irrelevant if your car stays cool. Yesterday's ambient temperature was 60°
Love the Youtube "build update" snippets Chris
Once warmed up, your engine sounds like a MONSTER
Cheers
Yarn or no Yarn.... Chris's car can eat your car.
Great test!!!!
Here is what I see. The fans come on and show that at 100% airflow through the radiator X amount of movement is shown in the strings. This is at sufficient air speed relative to the radiator to cool it in traffic according to Renegade.
Then, at speeds of what appear to be ~50mph that flow is drastically improved.
Chris here is what I suggest for the next test.
1. Buy an airflow meter.
https://www.amazon.com/Qotone-Anemometer-Wind-Speed-Windmeter-Thermometer/dp/B076MDPLP9/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=airflow+meter&qid=1606331963&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1& amp;spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTzBCWVA2T0k3SjUzJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzYxMzI
zMUEyQjNVUlYwT05TQiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTMyNDE5MUxTWjdCQUkzODNIMyZ3aWRnZXROYW1
lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
2. Test the system with the radiator fans on.
3. Test the system at 50mph in free air flow
4. Test the system at 50mph against the vent. (Gopro and duct tape )
Compare data and draw analysis
I say air going through one vent at 25% free air flow would be significant enough to not require any additional venting.
I would be curious how speed reflects the vent efficiency/ your total airflow efficiency.
Also curious how the vent being open vs having louvers affects airflow.
One could reposition the meter and adjust all the vanes of the louver for optimum efficiency at a specific speed
First attempt at screens only with no walls, just to see what it might look. It's a no-go IMO because, as expected, the corners where the mesh has to meet up at the different angles will never look right. And I'm not a fan of how it looks where the screen meets the hood skin.
So it's back to fabbing some AL walls. In playing around with how to attach the walls, I realized I have to make a couple revisions to the design. It's always something.
Attached thumbnail(s)
If you squint really hard, and imagine it with the lights installed, painted, with the vents finished and everything else in place, all tuned and running well...
Hey, it's what keeps me going.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I think you are just about there. Happy Thanksgiving Chris.
Earlier I'd mentioned I wanted to try a "straight across" version. Here's the first attempt at the design. I need to update a couple minor things but my first impression is that I kinda like it.
What's nice about this design is that, compared to the previous version, it doesn't require dissection of near as much of the support structure - so much simpler mods to the hood.
And I think I can get away with adding a single strake to better stabilize the vents.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I almost commented earlier but didn't figure my input mattered. However, since you brought it up....
Notice the curve of the front. And the curve at the top. (of the hood)
I think the curve in the middle should be a variance on that curve. The hood has curves at top and bottom, so I think you should average in between. The design is already there for you to work with!
Visualize the curves and match.
Doesn't have to be a curve as short as they are, but match the angle.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 - sorta like on the left?
It was one of the minor design changes I mentioned I wanted to make... Great minds?
Attached thumbnail(s)
You are on it already! But as narrow as they are, it doesn't even need to be as complicated as a curve on that part, just match the angle with a straight cut like the right.
Always admiring your work!!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 Maybe it's just me but "it looks different in real life".
The current version's upper and lower edges match the headlight cut outs. It looks pretty good (in real life) but depending on where you stand when you look at it, that top edge can feel too straight, regardless of its angle.
You're more than welcome to come by and give it a look-see.
Anyway, I'm sure there will be a few more test versions made before I make a final decision.
Plus, I got some actual yarn! So I'll do a "flow test" on this newest version in the next couple of days.
Some of the earlier photos showed a strong angle, that we commented on. We know you'll do it right.
I have a strong feeling this design will flow significantly more.
The latest updates:
First is the "straight across with a curved top". If you compare this to that last CAD screen grab, you'll notice I ended up lengthening the outer vertical edge. I wanted to make the curve at the top more noticeable. BTW, the radius of that curve is? You guessed it: 91.4"!
I think if I allowed the top edge frame to grow wider as it curves (vs that straight edge) as it moves outward, it might look a little better. Something to play with, at least.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then came the newest "Shortened 45 degree with curved top".
I made both versions then headed off to start celebrating my lovely wife's "BirthWeek"!
For sure that's far more important than any car stuff, but it means I didn't really look at either of them on the car, beyond taking these pics. I'll need some time with them before any next move but my initial reaction is that the straight one gives the car a more "refined" feel vs the 45s "tough guy" look.
I like them both and may just build two hoods and swap them onto the car to suit my mood.
This vent work continues to be a really fun effort. Forget "process of elimination". With me it seems to be "process of evolution", as evidenced by that pile of, oh, let's call them "trial vents" in the background of the last pic. Oh, plus the two randomly sitting on the hood, and some that aren't in the pic...
Whatever it is, I'm enjoying it and feel like I'm getting close. I will say that having tried to turn @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony's sketch into a real part? I now fully understand when there's some really cool design element on a show car and it's pointed out "well, that'll NEVER make it into production...", there's a REALLY good reason why!
Attached thumbnail(s)
My $.02 worth. If your goal is evacuating hot air from the frunk but you're not expecting to need extreme measures, then why not try picking up on the narrow openings in the cowl vent? The ribs closer together could give a more finished look and you may not need the canted vanes to move enough air for the purpose. There are a lot of variations available, including a few canted vanes into the mix.
BTW, do you ever feel like the peanut gallery is just jerking around a cat toy on a stick..........and you're the cat?
I prefer the angled option.
the "straight" version looks a lot like something I see on an appliance . Or venting for a garage.
I am now in the paralysis by analysis phase. I like the angled vents more but think the venting needs to be finer or smaller gaps. Regardless of our thoughts, I know Chris has a great eye for this stuff and it will not only be functional but it will look bitchin' too.
I like the straight vents better but I think they should start straight and then each vent should curve a little more until the last vent matches the curve on the back edge.
Chris, you nailed it earlier: You have to spend some time with these, and let them sit. You'll know what you like.
It's a tricky one, and the first time I've seen hood vents done to a high level besides the usual open rectangle in the middle of the hood (which I do like…for race cars).
As always, very into your craft…
incredible build !!!
Learned things that I apply to my future Builds!
Thanks!!!
Chris,
Perhaps you could extend the panel back a few inches, and angle the inside edge so as to avoid such wide and abrupt trailing edge? It might give the rear edge a more finished look. I think you've still got some room before running into the bulkhead to do so. I think a similar concept was posted somewhere here on 914WORLD before.
Just a thought, FWIW.
BTW, good on you for your willingness to model several iterations to have a look-see and get a feel for how each one looks! Invaluable!
Andys
After seeing the straight across version, my immediate reaction was, like @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael's, that the angled version needs more vents. As bold as those larger vents look, they seem a bit out of scale on the car.
And as @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert mentioned, the straights have a bit too much of a "home floor heater vent" look. Well, at least this current version does, IMO.
So, how to proceed? Well, I'm going all in on ANGLES! Frankly, it's important to me that I do all I can to honor @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony's original design. Plus, I think they fit the vibe of the build.
So, I spent a bit of time and worked up a new design. The key changes this time are:
- vents went from 45 to 60 degrees
- scaled the vents down to make room for a 7th vent (nature abhors even #s!)
- incorporated the "bend area" design from the straight version
IMO, this last point lends a more finished look to the final product. Compare the bend areas and you'll see that the current angle design is simply twisting a small area that I worry will crack at some point. The new approach leverages what I've seen on the commercially available vent products.
Not only does this seem a safer way to do the bend, it also means the upper edge of the vent moves outward, causing the top corner radii to finish proud of the inner edge of the frame. It just looks more "finished" to me.
Pics of the real one on the car in the next day or so. And if you're asking yourselves "when will this silliness end?", know that I'm wondering the same thing.
Attached image(s)
Hi @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 , Chris - I like the scale of that much better as well as the changes in angle and shape. I am looking forward to seeing the actual vent on the hood.
Oh! The carnage! But I am happy with the detail I can get with the plasma. There is a bit of minor clean up to do on the underside of some cuts but overall, it's pretty nice.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the latest, starting with the cut but not yet bent panel.
The plan is that the headlight eyebrows, covers and the vents will be painted black so it'll look different from this, for sure.
Time to sit and look at it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
60 degree angle = approved. Just the slightly redundant triangular hole top left needs attention?
- Tony
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony the design is nice. Chris I would play with the vane angles a bit, and it will allow you to fill the gaps a bit while still pulling the air out. That will keep it from looking like a grate for my grill. Or a trash receptacle at a cars and coffee.
More angle is not better, need design ideas these are proven in SCCA and NASA. Reduce your angle of attack.
https://trackspecmotorsports.com
Liking the evolution of this—looks more "complete" and "factory" with the recent tweaks. Rand was spot on, looks like. And I remain blown away by your ingenuity, Chris!
Agree that the little triangle needs to be addressed somehow. Not sure how, though...
I agree with Pete & Tony on the little triangle. Other than that, I think you have a design you can now move to the next step on. To get the whole feel we really need to see the hood with two vents installed as well as headlights and eye brows.
Yeah, I wasn't sure about that corner triangle either. But it was on the last design and I was more focused on the new angles, more vents and new bendy approach. So...
The issue for me is that seems like too big an area to just leave plain. Here it is with nothing and on the right, with a little bit of a treatment to lessen the visual weight of the plain corner.
I spoke with Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 and we agreed that this right hand version would be a good next attempt.
Tony reminded me that my yarn test showed the majority of the airflow is at the rear of the vent so opening up that area makes sense. And from a design perspective, if anyone were to notice, the solid area is now a dimensional match to the other corners.
I think before I build another version, I'll paint the headlight eyebrow, cover and current vent black and see how that changes the overall look.
Onward.
Attached image(s)
The mesh under the triangle may make the triangle less noticeable.
I still think 8 is great;)
We established the top angle. Can the vents match the angle? Don't go crazy with curves on each, just match the curve of the average. Some of the previous angles seemed polar opposite of the direction I was thinking. Vent angles matched to top angle (almost mirror reversed if you can visualize what my words mean... flow flow, same directions flow, vent angles MATCH the curve instead of oppose)...
Oof, bro, you are getting input overload.
Ugh, altitude sickness. Let's see if this horrible hack makes some sense... angles left to right... See the difference in angle flow??? Opposing vs. complimenting. Don't judge the edit, it's a quick and dirty to show angle differences. Chris would perfect it.
Attached image(s)
Sorry man, lol... You'll sort it.
When I heard the saying "Everyone's a critic", I thought it was a euphemism.
Turns out, it's closer to literal.
I think Rand is on the same general idea I had.
The front vane should be parallel to the front edge. The last/back vane should be effectively parallel to the back edge. Each vane moving front to back should angle a little more to go front the front parallel to the back parallel.
Yes, everyone is a critic and we are all jealous of your skills. We live vicariously through you, don't let us down.
2 cents for Free... Lines Lines , everywhere there's Lines
Attached image(s)
Since I have nothing better to do (!) and am always interested in trying new stuff, I figured "OK, lets' see what the @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5245 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 idea might look like. Rand's big red letter "WRONG" aside..."
The original straight version on the right, the new one on the left.
So, this new one takes the difference in length of the vertical sides and divides that by seven. Starting with the bottom vane, the distance between its "long side" bend point and the same side bend point of the next vane grows by 1/7 the difference. That 1/7 is again added to the previous distance until all vanes are located.
That 2nd pic is a composite of the top edge from each vane (91.4" radius), showing the unique angle of each.
If you think the vanes' top edges should follow the frame's curve, they can't. If they did, once the vanes are bent into position, the upper edge corners would sit higher than the middle, as was pointed out to me by @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=13907 , back on post #2403.
Anyway, there you go. I'm out of material so it'll be a couple days before I cut anything else.
And I'm with @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael, I need to get the vents set on both sides and start looking at a more complete front end view.
Attached image(s)
Here's the composite of the vane top edges.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sorry buddy, no filters.
Every damned time you are on it.
You can feel free to disregard every one of my words. You got this. (I mean, it's what everyone does... just roll)
OH wait.... you'd roll the edges of the vents...
And I can't believe it took me this long to recognize where the saying "I'm just venting" comes from!
Carry on...
Pete @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 please remember that most of these cars where built with a sanctioning body and its rule books in mind.. And how sanctioning bodies tend to limit your engineering fun is to do things like limit size of opening or even ban certain items that could radically change the overall dynamics of a car.
Fun part of this is trying to figure out a way to make the rules work for you and your build. Maybe that is just me.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 You are correct it will work, it will be fine, it is just not optimal.
Pretty sure homologation cars enable race cars—and/or how much further the race cars can be evolved from that starting point. So the road cars end up "over built" in many ways, such as uprights in the first GT3 RS that could be machined into what the race team wanted, or a firewall that did away with some brackets for the glovebox in the regular 996.2 GT3. As for those bumper-top vents, I suspect the street car's aero was thoroughly optimized for the street else given the stability issues customers are likely to encounter on the autobahn at 190~ mph. Ditto for cooling, as many 996/997/991/981/982 GT cars end up running at Thermal, Bahrain, etc.
In any event, my point in sharing wasn't to steal any fun, but Chris's project and the peanut gallery (including myself among the nuts) got me to thinking about what Porsche Motorsport—with its resources and know-how—has been up to when it comes to venting a central radiator. Iirc, the 996.2 GT3 RS was Porsche's first road car to leverage central radiator cooling to cancel front-end lift. The bumper-top vents weren't big, but the concept proved very effective and they've been enlarging/refining the top vent with each new GT2/GT3/GT4 variant over the last 15 years. The 914 could use a bit of help in this area, so I am wondering if any of the lessons be applied? Not sure what they would/could look like on a 914, but it's fun to think about. Chris's current setup may be the best short of the solution employed on so many 914 race cars.
And perhaps someone here knows aero, and can theorize what Chris's current vents might do when ducted.
Color change makes a huge difference. Note that the headlight cover is just a piece of paper. It's all I had - so sue me... But this is the current thinking on the paint scheme:
black bumpers and that same black on the eyebrows, headlight covers and vents. I think I'll completely fill in the bumper grill openings, too.
I'm going to again state that "these look different in real life." I don't mean that pics don't do them justice. I mean when you can walk around and see them from all the different angles, you get a bit different vibe. At least I do.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11529 Mike stopped by today in his 914 - a BEAUTIFUL slant nose, wonderfully and tastefully modified '73, and he seemed to agree. Mike, feel free to chime in with your perspective?
Next, I'll paint up the existing straight version and see how those look. I really like both styles so do think I'll just go ahead and make two hoods.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The "color" isn't fixing the angle issue...
I like the grills and covers black! It blends and softens the look.
Straight and black (insert one-liner here ). This is the "old" straight version that you've seen before, not the new design with the fancy @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5245 changing vane angles.
So @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 Tony, here you go, no angles so shut up. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 , you surely know what's coming: "You're a dick". All in love, my brothers, all in love.
In all seriousness, straight seems a better fit to the look of the car. What came to mind when I was swapping these designs back and forth on the hood then sitting back to see what I thought was that the straight is much "calmer". It draws my eye to that nice top curve where the angled doesn't seem to.
And if you disagree? Screw you, I say! Well, at least until/unless you see it in person, that is. At that point you'll have at least stepped out of the peanut gallery and onto the main floor!
I feel compelled to clarify: That last paragraph is me kidding you. Scheesh, such a serious group...
Anyway, the needed material arrived this afternoon so tomorrow I'll cut a RandAzBanks version and see how that looks. Then it's decision time on making a complete first set and attaching them to get an overall look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
(Have always wanted to use that emoji… )
That is finally getting there!
All black not helping these old eyes seeing the details. I like where this is heading now. Reduce the angles a bit more and you will have it.
Do I see a small flap in front to generate the low pressure zone over the vents?
Time to move on and let use peanuts critique your next project.
Not to be a dick but I do like the straight version. The angled ones just fight for attention with other design elements. The black also tames them. If you end up going with a dark body color like anthracite, I think they would look great painted to match and would provide more of a subtle badass look. Makes me think of the 935.
I was feeling left out of the peanut gallery, so I'm chiming in as well!
I think the last set of straight ones you posted look the best. I envy your ability to make things in real life -- I just design stuff virtually, but real craftsmanship is so much harder.
Would it be possible to lessen the bend angle of each vane as you move from front to back?
Straight looks even better! How about tomorrow am ? I have two other possible mods for ya!
Oooh booyy brother. The angles are almost there LOL!LOL.
So good.
We can agree that not everyone will agree upon what we should all decide upon, even when it's such a crystal clear decision!!!!
Hey 'yall, or is that Y'all? TonY?
Point is, Chris owns this and is an obvious master of his craft having to deal with all of us...
What I respect is that Chris listens. Through the nonsense, a few good ideas surface. And he can take a sniff here and there... And he always knows how to decipher it to come out with the best answer.
Tony, you should hook him up with a tunnnel.
Bravo.
Consider closing the space/gap on the plate in front of the first vane. Then either lower the subsequent units (3/8" or so) or increase the height of the first, likewise. I cannot tell from your pictures but they all appear to be similar in height and there is an opening in front of the first vane (maybe not, though).
I doubt you will want to do this from an aesthetic position but also consider increasing the angle (>vertically) of the first unit or alternatively add a slight radius (up) to the top of it (swell). This would create the low pressure zone needed to exhaust the frunk with greater efficiency.
You can explain all of these oddities to those "at car shows or WCR" as an actual "functional" design; not just a design.
Another way around the issue, but also solves the issue with out adding a piece of angle in front of the vanes.
If it does not work you can always do it again, and again.
Pics don't do justice to the real thing. After seeing the "live" versions I'm liking the straight version even more in black. Chris is a talented craftsman and whatever version he decides on will be great. Thanks for letting me visit the workshop and see the ever evolving car!
Credit where credit is due: @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5245 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 Sorry if I've left you off the list. I'm working from my (failing) memory.
Presenting the TonyVents, RandAzBanks Black Edition design, ready to be cut. This also incorporates some changes I decided to try after seeing everything painted black.
- extended the front of the panel so the vent starts right behind the headlight bucket. Seeing things painted caused that area to jump out at me. Tony (Cracker) also mentioned this one.
- lengthened the "bend channel" on the first vane so that once bent, it'll be a bit taller than the rest. It's about all I'm willing to do to create a dam to help create high pressure at the front of the vent. Is this ideal? Dunno, doubt it. But it should help while still meeting my goal of looking the way I want it look.
Back in a bit with pics of it installed. Fingers crossed!
Attached image(s)
I like the black but I think it would look even better if it matched the color of your wheels.
But then again, I am a sucker for dark grey metallic.
OK, here we go. Let's tease this one, shall we?
Cut but not yet bent. So far, I think I'm liking that "no gap" at the back of the headlight cover.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hey, all you critics - Be like my vents: Get BENT!
Looking good to me so far...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And I'm giving a go to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 Tony's comment that I try varying the angle of attack from more to less across the vanes. This is only eyeballed at this point so no comments about lack of uniformity of change.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I must have miscommunicated, Chris - same angle but decreasing height (slightly) from front to rear. Here it is...
Chris, I'm coming over to your place tomorrow to VENT!
Apparently late to the game, and not understanding where the internal supports/stiffeners of the hood are, I would suggest only one thing and it is aesthetics in my opinion only.
Get the "inside" edge of the louvers to match up with the headlight cutout of the hood or eliminate the headlight cutout. I could draw it if you wish, but I think you could figure it out. Just my $0.02, but you didn't ask.
It was really damp when I rattle canned yesterday and the finish is a bit uneven - it doesn't look too good in these pics.
In any case, here are the TonyVents RandAzBanks Black Edition in the metal.
Turns out that that minor rotation of the each vent really does change the look. I no longer see "floor heater vent"!
On the vane angle, after reviewing the yarn test and how it shows the major evacuation happening at the rear of the vent, I opted to open up those at the back, sorta giving up on the graduated angle idea.
There may be a couple very minor tweaks yet to come (I need to add a center strake to stabilize each vane) but this is the going-forward straight version design. For all intents and purposes, I'm calling these DONE!
Thanks again to you Gallery members for (most of ) your input! What a community...
As to next steps, I was honored by a visit from Andy @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 yesterday! He stopped by to do an in-person critique and gave me some great input for how I might address adding the screen/mesh. Let's see how this part goes.
Attached thumbnail(s)
On to the strake notch. Warning that this may get boring.
I'm no geometry expert but I have learned that when things bend at other than 90 degrees, especially in relationship to other things that aren't bending at 90, stuff ends up in places I didn't expect.
Each vane is bending at a different angle from all others and none are 90 to the frame. The goal is that once each vane is bent into position, these notches will align, the stabilizer strake will lock into them and run straight up the center of the vent, splitting the angle between the left and right sides of the frame.
Previous experience says this means I need to uniquely offset each strake's notch some magical amount and vary the angle of the each notch to take into account the angle of each vane. But how much? And what angle?
Here's my first go, with a temp center line, just to show how each offset moves out a bit more to account for that vane's increasing angle. There is actually some method to what I ended up with. I won't bore you with how I came up with it but we'll soon see if my thinking was even in the ball park.
And if anyone knows of some formula that I could use for all this, please let me know!
Attached image(s)
silver solder in place...
Well, I'm finding this thread vastly entertaining. Even though the vents should really be painted blue ... no, green ... no, red ... no, yellow ... no, plaid ... no, polka-dots ... errr, whatever you feel like.
Getting closer Chris,
Only thing I see is the first vent needs to be filled and just have the tip up on the front.
then you follow Tony's suggestion of decreasing hight of the tips. Angles are really getting good about mid way up your variable angle. I am away from my paper and pen otherwise I would draw it out.
Most of all have fun with the build.
Here's the basic idea I'm after. This is, as usual, the initial mock up to see what's what.
Also as usual, I have a ways to go.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like that look the best.
I like the mesh idea. Can't wait to see what you come up with.
True but the other fender has backwards decreasing radius,, 914 is an uphill battle or favor..
Chris, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 that is looking very cool. I think once you get the center support finalized and add the screening of some sort, you have a done deal. I can't wait to come see it.
That strake looks soooo good!
Both sides in with temp rivets, ready for the next yarn test.
This is the first time both sides have been in and even though these aren't the final versions, I have to say, I'm thrilled with how the car looks.
I think they hint there's something going on but they don't scream it. Just what I was hoping for.
Fingers crossed they work as expected.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good Chris!! With both sides done, it really makes a huge difference.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Well after 8 pages your almost there.... but you forgot KELTY360 and me
..."and lights! You could put lights underneath that would show when you open the vents.
"---KELTY360
" ...and sensors with thermal resistors hooked to the servos that would automatically open them when needed.
* and of coarse obviously turn on the lights... " ---altitude411
Chris,
I really like the look.
At the risk of initiating another 'do-over'
I just found this.
https://racelouvers.com/
It's more for those of us that don't have your skills but their testing is interesting.
Vent test V2. A few things:
- it's actually yarn! I hope you're OK with the color.
- the two pieces on the hood to the left of the vent show what's going on where there isn't a vent: No air lift. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 , you asked about this after that first vent video.
- there are a couple pieces of yarn in the vents that got stuck on the tape and couldn't stand up.
In all, same basic non-scientific result:
- hardly any flow at the rear vanes
- overall, the vents seem to work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E-bt9EEZeI
Then it was the fan test. Same deal as before, the belt still needs to be adjusted, sorry.
And you can see how those couple stuck pieces stand right up, once unstuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esx5A2JaaCo
I may do other tests but I'll probably move forward with these as is.
Next, I think I'll look into building a duct from the fans to the vents.
Then it's on to the rear of the car. What has Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 drawn up for me this time?
Guess you'll have to keep following the build.
OK - I think you have a winner there. I liked the fan test the best. Looks like you have good air flow out the vents. Take a bow Chris- that is amazing.
Not done yet
See the picture, please close that space up, it will help you more than you think.
You can "lead a horse..."
Geez... What's that saying? "You can please some of the people..."
Excellent work! Looks like better flow than your first test. Wonder what the yarn looks like at 70 mph FANtastic!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20845 - OK, Brent, you're on!
From the study:
"The aerodynamic drag force acting on a circular cylinder clad with knitted wool and polyester textiles has been investigated in wind tunnel experiments in this study."
Now I get it. Citing studies about drag on "cylindrical objects"? (Forget where I could go with that plus "wind tunnel"...)
In this case, the "you're a dick" comment essentially writes itself.
All I can say is that I if I run into any issues with lubrication, I certainly won't be mentioning it in this thread.
Since I'm nothing if not accommodating, and since Rand and AzBanks got to see their suggestions in metal, I figured it was only fair to take a swing at @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 Tony (not the vent designer Tony) and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 and Stephen's suggestions.
And thanks also, Dan @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=626 ,for the link to Race Louvers. I read through the data and looked at their various designs. It was that additional info, on top of Tony and Stehpen's prodding that tipped things toward another iteration.
I'm calling these the "all business" version, vs the "form over function" RandAzBanks model.
Anyway, here's the initial go, unpainted so it's easier to see the details, and CAD of the 2nd version that fixes a couple of "oops, I shoulda seen that before making the part".
Key changes:
- a near vertical .75" wicker right at the front.
- all the vents run straight across, no more fancy, changing angles
- V2 CAD vanes: after bending, each subsequent vane is .05" shorter (from .6" down to .3")
- the 45 notch in the front corner is modified to allow the wicker to be as wide as possible while still not interfering with that hood rubber nubber thing.
It'll be interesting to see if there's any detectable difference when I yarn test this one.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Atta-boy...
I think that is my favorite of all of them. It's clean and simple in appearance.
I figured I may as well work out a possible next step: Adding the shop name!
My plasma table has an engraver attachment that can scribe the metal so why not? If I like it, I'll only add it on the driver side vent.
For the tool whores:
All that's needed is to establish the separate layers in CAD then set up the G-code to run the appropriate operation for each layer. I color-code each layer so it's easier for me to see:
- first run the engraver on the text (in blue)
- switch to the plasma torch to "drill" the holes (in red)
- cut the vent (in black)
Be sure to get the order right so you don't cut an outside shape then come back and try another operation on a "floating" part! Not that I've ever done that...
The 2nd pic is a snip visual of the overall cut program. This is what generates the code that runs the plasma table. Note that it shows I'm cutting 16ga stainless. That's just the "tool" I use to cut .063 aluminum. The "tools" are just presets for voltage, cut height, travel speed, etc. It has nothing to do with the actual material being cut.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Very cool feature! Adds a nice custom touch to your car.
Chris,
Your skill set is unreal. A true artist! No need to BS you, so many ideas from your build.
Thanks for sharing it with us.
Bob B
If you have ~ 1 minute to waste and you care to see how I spend part of my day, here's a quick video that shows how I preview the various operations ahead of cutting. Note this is sped up a bunch, just to shorten the video.
When I create the CAD drawings, I end up doing a ton of editing, copying, moving, rotating, snipping off end bits of line, etc. So before I cut the part, I use "single step" in this simulation mode (you can see the options on the right side) and preview each move and cut the torch will make to double check there are no straggler bits in the drawing that are asking to be cut.
Anyway, there you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LgCySbyspQ
This is getting way far away from anything 914 related so feel free to skip!
I haven't used the engraver for anything yet. And of course, it's adjustable for things like downward pressure, so I figured I'd better test it a bit first.
I'm not happy with the "punch" it leaves when it first drops onto the material so I'm still working on that. But it'll be pretty cool if I can get to look the way I want.
Attached image(s)
Max fail of the day: My engraver offset setting somehow got out of whack!
Man, I hate it when that happens... Oh well, a good reason to do a little maintenance on the table.
Note that this part looks messy because once I realized the engraving wasn't in the right place, I didn't bother cleaning it up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Fail aside, this is the latest vent design and here you can see the "graduated" vanes going higher to lower as they move rearward.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Listening. Not to your engraver.
I like how it mimics the fender top...high at the front fading out as it goes back.
You should combine the angled vanes with the graduated vane height.
It would be the ( R)and, (A)zBanks, ( C)racker, 914form(e) design or just RACe design for short.
OMG. the can too far open. Sorry Chris.
I think enough is enough from our gallery... Once it's out, it's this.
You got this.
Well, I rarely occupy anything but first and certainly wouldn't finish third to Rand in anything automotive. I'm swapping orders...congrats on bronze, Rand.
I suggest I have offered my opinion because I CARe.
Cracker
It's sofa frusraighting Tony cracker. So vein. Vane. Vaughn. Vince? Who next? Who who? Who are you?
What I know is Chris has it in the bag.
And now for something completely the same...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyR3TzIgi-U
I prefer the original version...
of the song......
but yeah, Chris has this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7JAkM57uIo
Well, that's better. Here's the before (left) and after (right) of the engraver offset adjustment. Yes, the cross is supposed to be in the middle. I won't go into what led to this (me ) but it's all better now.
I'm still getting too much of that punch mark so if I can't eliminate it, I'll have to come up with something else or forego the branding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hey Chris, something to look into for you logo would be acid etching. Plenty of youtube videos on different processes for etching aluminum.
Why do I love 914 World? It's the people! I saw what a great job @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23209 did on his build and was a bit jealous of his SolidWorks door panel. So I PM'd him asking if he'd share or sell me a copy of the file.
In one day, I had his "Sure you can have it" reply and today, at his earliest opportunity, I had the file.
Jared - thanks, thanks, THANKS! I owe you one - probably two!
And with the file in hand, I stated playing with designs. I want to stamp a suitable pattern into the panel then upholster it so the pattern stands out, or in, as the case may be.
This isn't what the design will be as I need to work it so it "fits" where my door bars are. I also want to build in a bit of a cubby that'll extend into one of the existing openings in the door frame.
Anyway, it's different work from the vents - and I'm ready for a break from those, for sure!
Again, Jared, you da' man! Thanks again.
Attached thumbnail(s)
OOoh Metal door cards!!
That’s what the community is all about!!
Thanks for the comments. Glad that I can help pay it forward, just as so many here have done for me.
Cannot wait to see these upholstered.
Public Service Announcement: Think and do research first! Don't be like Tygaboy!
Let's forgo further attempts at humor and get right to it:
My car does come up to temp, the regular ol' thermostat set up works fine, I don't need to get all fancy with ECU controlled water pumps and fans - though I may choose to do that later, just 'cuz.
Turns out SpeedHut temp sensors use a different ohm range than that of GM sensors - even though they use the same f-ing wiring connectors. Totally my fault/lack of knowledge, but still...
Maybe some of you already knew about the specific gauge = specific sensor. If you did, thanks for nothing in terms of letting me know!
I stumbled on the following charts about 5 minutes before pulling the entire drive train and going all "high tech solution" to try and resolve my perceived issue. A quick comparo of these charts to the temp behavior I was seeing and I was sure this was it.
Today I installed the correct sensor, fired up the beast and sure enough, it's all good.
It comes up to temp, the fans kick on as expected, etc., etc.
Yep, it's another case of "problem solved for $18...".
Anyway, that's a long way around to your lesson for today:
"Determine root cause to be sure you're address the issue, not treating a symptom".
The best news is that this means the vents do, in fact, work just fine! At least as far as I've pushed the car to date, which isn't much. Who wants to come along for a "stress test" drive?
In all seriousness, maybe this lesson helps someone else avoid the same thing.
Attached image(s)
Hey Chris - Glad you got that sorted. I would definitely sign-up for the stress test drive.
My brother and I were at Chris' yesterday just to chat. Chris surprised me with a WCR framed poster with his 914 silhouette mounted with it. I am going to hang it in my home office. My wife thought it was cool too. Many thanks.
We didn't take my Six as I was concerned about weather. Big mistake- the weather was good and it would have been a great drive as there was little to no traffic. Got a chance to see the hood vents in person and love Chris' current design.
Right before we left Mark and Robert showed up in Mark's car - I love it with the Fuchs..... It was great seeing them and I wish we could have hung out longer but we had more stuff to do at our homes.
The next time we take a ride to Chris' it will be in the Six.
Cheers,
Michael
Always wondered is there any trunk space left with a V8?
.....The best news is that this means the vents do, in fact, work just fine! At least as far as I've pushed the car to date, which isn't much. Who wants to come along for a "stress test" drive?
In all seriousness, maybe this lesson helps someone else avoid the same thing.
[/quote]
OMG, I wish I lived closer....would love to go for a ride in this beast!!!
thanks again for all of your work posting etc.
Regards,
Grant
Hey Chris,
Not sure if you have seen this page below. It is from the inventor of the electromagnetic sheet metal bender.
http://aaybee.com.au/Magnabend/Magnabend_Homepage.html
Before: stock window winder
After: GoWesty offset window winders that were treated to some graduated hole lightness, along with a touch of countersink.
And yes, the holes were purposely milled perpendicular to the arm, not the mounting base.
The goal was to try and sorta match the seats' grommet look. Parallel to the base would have left an oval look.
I'm happy with how they turned out. Just imagine how nice they'll look with some zippy door cards!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Really like those handles...like what you did with the holes!!
Love the window cranks Chris! I think you should make some up in your spare time to sell. First in line, just saying.
Happy New Year, I hope.
After better understanding the design of the X-pipe muffler I was using, I've decided to redo the exhaust before heading back to the tuner.
I'm still noodling on mounting approach and where I want the exhaust tips to exit.
I'm torn between the close together look, which I really like, vs farther apart where you could get a peek at the the cool looking muffler bracket I'm building.
No, those aren't the actual tips I'd use. Yes, I agree, they are too long. Just mocking up things.
I've also worked up a "through the body" exit that I may attempt. In this version, the mufflers don't hang below the bumper and aren't visible at all. And should I proceed with this idea, I suspect it'll will draw even more "gallery" comments than the hood vents...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very nice. I bet it will be louder now too.
Mufflers, we don't need no stinking mufflers!!!
Have always loved it when you can see a bit of the transmission under the rear bumper of a mid-engined car (see 288 GTO for the gold standard), so I am voting for the split pipes.
Love the door handles and the metal door backers. When you press those will you mill out the dies? I have a cnc mill on back order. If it get's here in time, maybe we can work on them together.
Chris did you ever take a look at one of those Spin Tech mufflers??
I needed a fixture to help keep the mufflers positioned while I fab the mounting bracket. I figured why not have some fun while I was at it.
I may try and figure out a way to incorporate this into a rear valance. Add mesh to the openings, etc. We'll see.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Only one that would make a temp holder this way
Don't forget the diffuser.
The spacing in this latest pic looks the best!
Cheers
I agree with @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22304 -the spacing on the pipes looks great.
Love it Chris!!!
...but with the addition of the 5-fin cookie cutter tips.
Assistant Chairman,
Design by Committee,
914world inc.
Chris, how much are you paying him?
V2 exhaust system essentially done, complete with peek-a-boo of the end of the trans/muffler mount. Hopefully, Pete @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 will approve!
I still have some final welding to complete but it's drive-worthy so tomorrow, I'm back to prepping for the next trip to the tuner.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The new version of the muffler mount is more visible, but you sorta have to know to look for it. Yes, I know, there's finish welding to do on this piece.
And re: that other pic? Well, it wouldn't be a Tygaboy production with out multiple versions/test pieces...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I really enjoyed meeting you (briefly!) at the WCR in Petaluma, and your build is EPIC! One thing you might consider doing is beefing up your trans mount... see the carnage my Suby-powered engine caused to my chassis beginning on post #444 at http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=83031&st=400. Your engine surely puts out more than my 302whp...
That looks very nice.
So no crossover anymore? Is there a performance advantage?
Also you mentioned a while back using a manifold and a center mount TB. Can you elaborate more about that?
Crisp and Clean! That looks so good Chris!
Congrats
and a little bit of
Let's start with the "bad" news:
In testing out the new exhaust, I uncovered an issue I created that, surprisingly, went unnoticed not just by me, but by everyone who has heard the car run.
Turns out I had switched two of the coil connector harness plugs: # 6 and #8. This error was in play in each of the driving videos I've posted. I'm certainly not saying someone should have noticed, it's totally on me but, can you believe it?
Go back and watch those videos... And a few of you heard it run when you were at my shop during WCR.
I would have thought it'd have run like total crap. Note that I have a single O2 sensor that happens to be on the 1-3-5-7 header so the tune wasn't aware of the problem.
Now the good news:
With everything correctly connected, I took it out for another test drive.
HOLY.
MOTHER.
OF.
GOD.
This thing is now scary quick. Well, when it hooks up, anyway. I wasn't even hard on the gas, more rolling into it and it's breaking loose easily through 3rd. I decided not to try 4th.
Remember, this is still with a tune that isn't optimized for the new throttle bodies, throttle cam, correct firing order ( ) or the new exhaust.
Am I happy? Yes. Am I a little afraid? Yes to that, too.
Glad it was a simple fix and that it now runs the way it should. Better order some new tires because you will surely burn thru the ones it quickly. Cant'e wait until the next time I come up to see and hear it.
The LSD should have been on the list from the start. OR
AWD
Great bad news!!!!
I bet that thing FLYS!
I have a new toy that I think you'll like. Well have to get together soon
I will say one thing about LSD vs Open diff.
With LSD you really have to be able to keep it straight when the tires are spinning and at some point you have way more wheel speed than road speed and thats what gets you in trouble. Your short ratio box helps prevent "Trouble" as it keeps your wheel speed relative...
An open diff you still have 3 tires on the ground maintaining traction, so swapping ends is a lot less frequent of a thing. Just something to consider, I know you'll put an LSD in it regardless. But my open diff stays straight pretty much 90% of the time when Im spinning.
Great news on the fixes and JUICE, Chris!
Sounds like you need an LSD and possibly R-compound rubber STAT. A good LSD should help you put the power down but also stabilize the rear end under braking. Be careful with factory LSDs, as some are known for wearing their way into open diffs, and quickly. Long been on my list for the next 901 rebuild, along with short 2-3-4, billet plate, and billet side cover. That isn't gonna be cheap…
A week or so out from getting the car back to the tuner.
With nothing better to do , I decided I didn't like the QuikLatch set up on the engine lid - it required popping one side, walking to the other side of the car and popping the other. I figured I could do better.
This design will use a single latch in the center - or slightly offset to the driver side, like stock. But because I no longer have a trunk wall that can serve as a mounting location, I have to cantilever a bracket out to reach the cross bar between the shock towers.
And since that's the case, I "needed" to add another mounting location to the engine lid. What to do?
How about adding another captured nut set up to the lid, just like what the stock set up uses? Sounds good to me!
So I sliced that part off a crap engine lid I had and welded it to the mirrored location on the lid I'll be using.
Then I used some neat-o, recessed fastener bungs, roll bent some .5" 065 wall square tube to match the curve of the engine lid and welded up a part that will serve as the base for the cantilever bracket.
Here's how things look so far. Next, it's working up a bracket on the crossbar, then "connecting the dots". How hard can that be?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Essentially finished the new version of the engine lid latching system. It's a "one and done" button set up using just a single of the same, small Quik Latch buttons.
I decided to offset it, sorta like the stock location. Mostly, just so I don't have to lean in as far to get to the button.
Rattle canned black to see how it'd look. As you hear me say, the design is a little busy but it's all bolt on so I didn't REALLY have to commit to it! We'll see if I decide I like it. But it works for now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyPenChvYDQ
Getty 914-6 GT hood is here!
And yes, I'll be cutting it up to add the hood vents.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With a new hood, you need a new vent design.
The design commitee will come to order!
Who would like to submit the first suggestion??
Out the inner fender and be done, the GT hoods are just to nice to put a set of vents in.
Nice build and just checked out a few areas, LS3 will be great and I think a nice Hood Vent is functional; similar to mine on an LS6 build, which was updated from the original build in 2006. Add a little class with some black mesh, carbon fiber louvers, etc. (Photo is several years old and lots of changes in past few years but still retained the Hood Venting with Carbon fiber radiator shroud.
I like the engine lid latching set up you came up with. It is simple and looks good. That front lid looks pretty dang good right out of the box! Does it need much work to meet your standards?
Saweeeet! Glad to hear that. I will have to come by and check it out.
I'll be doing a GT version of the engine lid and was thinking I'd remove the lid cross-brace. The lids get a bit noodle-y without it and the stock springs can cause the passenger rear corner to lift a bit. So I removed the springs and came up with a prop rod set up.
I'll be adding a clip on that main latch bracket to hold the rod when the lid is closed. It's just sitting there at this point.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris,
Looks good, why not put the pivot near the center of the cross brace? This way it won't interfere with any work from the drivers or passenger sides. Just a thought, there may be other factors I'm not aware of in your choice of location.
Bob
I like the prop rod. One thought.
Why not pivot it off the center of the car vs the outboard? That way you can prop it in the middle of the engine lid and it wont get in the way of working on the engine from the drivers side? You could probably put the same ball catch as what you have for the engine lid so it catches and wont fall with wind?
Page 4??? How can this thread be on page 4??
Excellent!!
How did your engine tune go?
That is a big box of fun!
For anyone interested in this build and wondering why not much action lately:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/racerbenz-my-cl500-track-day-car-build/182195/page1/
If you've enjoyed the non-914 fabrication elements of my 914 effort, you'll likely enjoy following the RacerBenz build. Some pretty silly stuff is planned for the poor thing.
Let's start with: I really like mid-engine cars...
Your wife must be the BEST!!! If you ever single her up.... just saying
Here we go again! Looks like fun! Did Jack make it out there?
Yes please! I have some new Sparco seat sliders if you'd like em
They are yours! I will figure out a time to stop by
The 914 is back in the shop while RacerBenz awaits parts.
One of the issues I'm working through is that the ECU is reading coolant temp from a different sensor from the one that's used by the SpeedHut gauge.
I'm playing with the idea of replacing the gauges with a Holley digital dash. It's a 2-wire CAN connection to the ECU and ensures I see what the ECU is seeing. We shall see. Anyway, it offers a bunch of layout templates and you can build your own. Seems right up my alley! Pic is of some of the included templates
The LS has coolant temp sensors at the front of the driver side cyl head and the back of the passenger side head, meaning one is seeing coolant as soon as it enters the engine, and the other sees it after it's been 1/2 way through the head. I decided to add a sensor to the water collector and measure temp after the coolant has exited both heads.
The big change is that the water pump and rad fans are now controlled by the ECU. And it turns out the thermostat was intermittently sticking, so it was removed. All temp management is now programmable.
Getting there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Fiberglass ashtray-delete dash!
Weighs almost nothing. Like my car needs to be lighter...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The big change is that the water pump and rad fans are now controlled by the ECU. And it turns out the thermostat was intermittently sticking, so it was removed. All temp management is now programmable.
Getting there.
[/quote]
Do you think the thermostat was bad or was it the Meziere housing causing a problem??
[quote name='BIGKAT_83' date='Mar 27 2021, 04:40 PM' post='2903307']
The big change is that the water pump and rad fans are now controlled by the ECU. And it turns out the thermostat was intermittently sticking, so it was removed. All temp management is now programmable.
Getting there.
[/quote]
Do you think the thermostat was bad or was it the Meziere housing causing a problem??
[/quote]
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=194 Watching the temp behavior via the laptop while it's connected to the ECU showed that the thermostat was sticking. I can't imagine the housing was causing it, but maybe that's possible. No worries now, though.
I had the old version of the radiator shroud top. This was going to get carbon inserts but I thought I'd see what it looked like with a quick rattle can paint job and aluminum inserts. Not bad, but the paint looks maybe a bit too glossy. Still noodling on the final look I want.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Getting ready to take the car to EASY this Saturday. I finally fitted the GT headlight kit and threw on the old bumper top. I really makes it clear the hood needs to move forward and left.
But given this is the farthest together my car has been in over 4 years, I'm pretty happy with how it's starting to look.
That's the final version of the hood vent, just held on in the corners with temporary rivets. Tomorrow's goals are finish and fit the passenger side hood vent and get the headlights in, wired and working.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hi Chris- Looking good. I am going to try to make it to EASY this Sat. am. I will shoot for 7:30 and maybe be able to park within the city limits.....
<aside/>...Web geek here just sayin... if you wonder why weird quotes sometimes include broken things from previous quotes and it breaks up the formatting of the quote flow... it's when one quotes and didn't mean to edit out the brackets or quotes or somethings. A single bracket can break everything. Gotta not delete the closing tags. /geek
CHRIS! I'm getting stoked with you!! It's getting closer!
The craftsmanship in this build is inspiring!
Keep at it!
Missing vent makes it look cross eyed.
Checked out the Merced, and you thought you got some comments here LOL.
Going to be cool.
It was so cool to see Chris' car at EASY this morning. People swarmed it all morning long. I am betting we had over 75 cars there easy (no pun intended). Took up two streets. Man talk about some cool stuff. It was a lot of fun.
Only 1 asshat, (black Lamborghini) had to get on it when leaving to let everyone know he was in a "Lambo". It's those guys that cause events to get shut down due to complaints from neighbors.
Aside from the above (asshat) everyone else was respectful and very cool. People wore masks and it was surprising the number of people who already had their 2 vaccinations. Yay.
I took some photos and will post them later today when I get home.
Spotted in the wild at EASY! Photo courtesy of Robert @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Thanks!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice catching up with some folks this AM. Some nice 914 representation with two real sixes - the Tygaboy V8 obviously - my faux GT and a bumblebee.
- Tony
Something's happened - Marie Kono got into my head - and I'm considering, emphasis on considering, selling.
No I haven't landed on a price but I don't live in fantasy land. It's an odd-ball build that doesn't have wide appeal, at least not for ownership, and it's clearly not done.
On the other hand, all parts are top-of-the-line and essentially new and the chassis is solid.
I'd consider selling it as a roller, minus the engine, ECU/engine harness and trans. Might be a great basis for someone who wants a Subby or other H2O swap and likes the other stuff that's been done.
It's not in the Classifieds because, well Tygaboy...
If you're seriously interested, PM me.
I understand how these projects go. My car is 90% and drivable but already thinking about the 928 project
Finish it!!!
You not finish?
The HORROR
You're killing me man. There needs to be closure. Being able to say, "Yeah, I [almost] did that" doesn't have the cache.
No Chris ..........don't sell it! FINISH IT! Take some time off if you need to but don't stop. You're almost there man.
Super Benz can wait! Don’t quit on the 914.
@mods
If he does this,
It is bad enough that my daily dose of therapy has dropped to almost nothing. To have it go away completely is unthinkable.
Tygaboy, you need to finish it. Do it for the children.(or the childish 914world members like myself)
Dude, there is so much of YOU in this car. It's so close. There is no one you could sell it to that could take up this mantle. I know you do what you gotta do. Just my 2 cents.
It's already running and driving so if you finish it now, it may be worth more as a roller down the line and your labor to render it as such will be about the same. If you do let it go, are you getting into another 914 to get yer thrills?
Fuch it,, Sell it... The Creative part is Done ....The vision and journey is the fun part.. The rest is Nail Polish...
Closure is that it Runs and Drives..
That LS motor would fit perfectly into my Volvo 242
Send it away to get blasted and painted and tell them to take their time - when you pick it up in a year or so you'll be re-motivated by the change -it's so close!
Chris, thank you for the call.
I will say this, you do what is right for you. I get where you are coming from, and if you achieved everything you wanted to, then move onto the next big adventure. And I will be watching and cheering you on.
We went for our longest drive yet yesterday. Cooling system is all dialed in and performing as expected. Runs like a champ. Next, I need to sort the front suspension. I think it needs lighter torsion bars. I have 21s in there now, going to 19.
Here's very brief clip of our arrival at a friend's shop. Volume up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnRiJ8XZqWA
IIRC you have Koni Sport shocks. Are they set to full soft?
Confused.
I have a non running 914 project and I go to car shows to hang out with 914 peeps.
You have a running 914 project, make it to a car show, and bail.
Seems we are not the same kind of Chris'
Also I have stock ft shocks and stock 19mm 911 torsens with the 22mm stock sway and I think it's too stiff too, at least in my cracked asphalt hood. I'm hoping a rear sway knocks out some understeer.
PS. seeing your old school wheels is making me want to make mine fit
[quote name='tygaboy' date='Apr 11 2021, 09:26 AM' post='2907243']
We went for our longest drive yet yesterday. Cooling system is all dialed in and performing as expected. Runs like a champ. Next, I need to sort the front suspension. I think it needs lighter torsion bars. I have 21s in there now, going to 19.
Here's very brief clip of our arrival at a friend's shop. Volume up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnRiJ8XZqWA
Sounds very nasty.
Chris,
Do you have a front sway bar? I'd unhook that before you remove the T bars
I have 21's on the front with no sway and koni yellows set almost to full soft. 225 springs in the rear with koni yellows (and no sway bar).
The 21's are certainly stiff, but IMHO not overly stiff. I am always on the side of softer suspension leads to better on road compliance.
Oddly my setup works very well. Its a hair darty but I like that. I have no issues with 120+mph pulls on pot hole 2ln roads as evident from my videos...
Also whats your toe setting?
Im pretty sure he has raised spindals, so bump steer shouldnt be an issue.
I'm using the stock 18.8mm 911 torsion bars on my Suby-powered 914, with raised (30mm) spindles on the Bilstein strut tubes. The front Billy Sports are 911 valved, and they're mounted in Ground Control camber/caster plates. I have a Lemforder-based Turbo tie-rod setup, although I switched to heim joints on the outers in my custom fabbed bumpsteer eliminator setup (see post #208 at http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=83031&st=200). The rear springs are 250 inch/lbs Eibachs on a Ground Control coilover design, over Billy Sports. I use a hollow 22mm Tarett Racing front sway bar, with no rear sway bar. I'm using Elephant Racing polybronze bushings front and rear, and my rear trailing arms are stiffened with crosstubes. I seam-welded the chassis when it was on my rotisserie a few years ago, and I've got a GT chassis kit and inner longitudinal kit welded-in; I did everything I could to stiffen the chassis while also avoiding the installation of a cage.
I just switched to 225-45-17s Kumho V730s up front and 255-40-17s in the rear. The guys at Elephant Racing worried that the stock 911 Billy Sports would be too stiff for a 914, but the extra weight of the cooling system up front seems to make them work well on my car. The car is neutral even at the speeds my car can generate on an autocross track, and not too jarring on the street -- but just stiff enough that my wife will not go for a multiple hour ride in it. That is why I bought another 914 for her right after the last WCR in Petaluma!
I wonder if you'd enjoy stock 911 size torsions better... I've ridden in 911s with both the stock 18.8mm bars and in another that I remember to have had 22mm hollow Sander torsion bars, and the latter almost knocked my fillings out (although it had a lot more go-fast goodies, too).
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=8624 My front set up:
- 20 mm raised spindles
- Elephant bump steer kit
- Elephant spherical bushing
- Elephant quick adjust camber plates
- Elephant bladed sway bar with the medium stiff blade (it's the lighter of the two options)
- Lemforder Turbo tie rod kit (but with the Elephant bump steer tie rod ends)
The bump steer was set/checked as part of the alignment process at Roger Kraus Racing.
One issue that's not evident in the attached pics (taken before the alignment and final assembly so yes, there are loose or missing fasteners) is that, on my chassis, the fancy-schmancy camber plates interfere with the chassis before the strut can be tipped back far enough to get the caster in spec. Hence the .2 degrees under minimum.
I got a set of Tarrett monoball camber plates that I'm planning to swap in as the are physically smaller at the point they pass through the chassis and will allow me to get more caster. I'll also swap in the 19mm torsion bars.
I'll give Andrew's sway bar disconnect a try but that seems counter-intuitive, give how adding a sway bar to these cars is one of the the mods that gets great results. I know, I have a giant V8 and heavy trans, but still.
Thanks for your input and any other suggestions or observations!
Attached thumbnail(s)
LS Fest,, Vegas.. Exhibition Class,,, Have some Fun....
I'm curious about the air pressures your running in the tires. Both of my cars I use near stock 27 front, 29 rear cold to start with. At the autocross/track I adjust accordingly with temp gauge. For the street I do not bother. I have found this works well for all the different tires compounds and widths I have used. 205/225. Soft compoud/summer high perfomance. It seems to be appropriate for the weight of the car. Where are you at Chris?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 Chris - on handling: would suggest one change at a time (which I'm sure you're thinking too), but caster has to be a leading suspect - especially if the steering is not self-centering. You don't specify your toe setting; going with heavy toe out might add to the "dartinesss" (nice term BTW), but would suggest pulling caster into spec. first, then check and test, before tweaking another variable. FWIW,
- Tony
Chris, remind us what tires your running and how old they are? I can't remember if you said you had something OK or if it was old.
Back to some wiring madness. Today, I check off another major milestone:
I can control all running light and headlight function with a single button on the wireless steering wheel panel!
Note that the functions demo'd only use three of the relays. The others are there for the wipers and heater blower. And it's looking like we can get away with fewer relays, based on a bit different approach.
Also, no crap about the mess o' wires. It was all about making it work. Tidying up comes later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia-Y5RHZr84
I'm also looking at taking a more serious swing at a YouTube channel so I thought I put a little more effort into this video. I'd say "constructive criticism welcomed" but I know I'll get it without having to ask...
And a big thanks @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 for taking time to talk with me about his experiences getting the Budget Outlaws channel up and into continuous improvement mode!
1. Thumbnail
2. Title
3. Intro and outro (people need to know what they are going to watch, and when it's over)
4. I think you have it on "made for kids" which removes commenting ability. Change that to "Adult" and then people can comment on your vids.
Content was good! Everyone likes tension followed by a "Win"!
Hilarious.
Good job.
Cracker
I want
That was cool and entertaining. Nice to see you getting the electrical sorted the way you wanted. Even your wiring "mess" is neat.
Great video Chris and great job sorting out the wiring and interface.
The car is running great and I've been taking it on longer and longer drives, getting know its ins and outs. Essentially, it has two very distinct personalities:
- One that says, "Hi, I'm just a friendly cruiser!. When you roll gently into about 1/4 throttle and shift casually, just using it like a regular car. It's actually quite civilized and easy to drive.
- The other is one that gets right up in your face and yells "The F*** you looking at?!?". I'm going to take @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15327 Steve's term and call this "Beast Mode".
The transformation happens any time you push down your right foot with any sort of urgency and get much past that 1/4 throttle point. The car makes all sorts of intake and exhaust porn noises and it launches/pulls hard with pretty violent urgency.
It's a bit scary at first but I'm getting used to it.
Onward with development and completing all the little things that need completing.
Speaking of little things that need completing, I have to close up these gaps around the front chassis bars where they pass though the heater hose holes.
What to do?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Vid was fun! Keep it going!
Step 1: Make a paper template to determine needed shape and hole location. Note that the bar passes through the hole at an angle so the hole needs to be an ellipse, not a circle.
Step 2: cut a metal blank. But remember, it has to be 2 pieces so draw up two circles with a 1/2" tangent linking them.
Step 3": Cut the blank essentially in half, stamp a step in one of the sides (using up that 1/2" mentioned in Step 2) so it overlaps the other side and helps to seal it up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Clearance as needed and... done!
Turned out pretty well. Now on to the other side.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I had thoughts of when welded, where are going to be the stress points... where would the first crack start... But dang, that combo is rigid.
Passenger experience in the Beast.
Warning: some foul language is necessary to adequately chronicle the events of the day.
Last Thursday I paid a quick visit to The Red Barn for a look at the progress on the Beast as it’s now drivable. I’ve been following the build from the beginning and I won’t dwell on just how impressive Chris’ skills are or how innovative this build is. This is already well documented in this thread. I’ve never driven or ridden in a 914 with anything other than a stock 4 cylinder motor. So the concept of putting a SBC motor in the 914 flips the WTF flag in my mind. I know it’s done but I can’t imagine what it even means. Hence the visit; let’s find out what it means. So after some chewing of the fat, saying hi to Lori and having a quick look at the gutted 2000ish MB soon to be race car, it was time to get down to business and get at ride in the Beast.
Engine started; idle established, not crazy loud but clearly not your normal 914 noise. Passenger accommodations are austere; stock 914 seat sans cushion (replaced with a bath towel) and climbing in over the door bar was a bit of a challenge for this arthritic senior. Once belted we set off. Putting out the driveway and tooling around at 2-3000 rpm is a fairly mild. The ride is a bit harsh and the noise level is elevated (no sound proofing yet and no rear window so not surprising). The Beast, driven in low power mode is a great cruiser. We were out about 10 minutes and turned around to return home when the demonstration really started. First a couple of pulls thru 2nd and 3rd going up to 4000 rpm. Very impressive acceleration. Then about 5-10 seconds of “ludicrous speed”. Holy SHIT slap my ass and call me Sally! Sitting not more than one foot away from a SBC gulping fuel and excreting deafening noise and vibration while g-force pinned to your seat is, well, TERRIFYING!!. I’m pleased to report that I did not soil myself but it was close. And I’m pretty sure that Chris didn’t explore that last 25% of gas pedal travel (where “super ludicrous speed” lives) as the ass end stayed planted and there was no unplanned departures from the roadway. I think Chris sensed I was a bit nervous so we returned home is cruise mode.
So now I know what putting that much power into a light vehicle means. When I was 14, I had a quick ride from Concord to Oakland in the back seat of a P-51. The Beast is kinda like that.
Thanks for the ride Chris.
I have ridden with Chris in his car- it is definitely fast but he is also a very careful driver. I am hoping he semi-finishes his car before letting it move on to the next owner.
I would love to see the body shot in primer and all the glass, interior and trim go back in/on and then drive it to work out any issues before selling. Then the new owner can paint it what ever color they choose. That is one heck of a high performance car.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15327 Steve, great seeing you, as always, and thanks for your ride review! It'll be interesting to see what you think on the next ride, when the car's a bit more developed. I "installed" the rear window (thanks double sided tape/Gorilla tape!) and it makes a significant difference. In fact, I took Lori for a ride and she said "That was fun!"
If approval from the wife isn't a win, I don't know what is.
And your experience is a lot like mine has been: the first time I asked the car to "get with it", it was unclear what, exactly, was going to happen! As I've added miles and tested more into the upper reaches of the performance, I've become more comfortable that, while it does have quite the bark, I'm better understanding where it's likely to bite.
So, the big news, at least from my perspective, is that in response to my "considering selling" comment, I received two offers for the car, both over my "I wouldn't take less than" price.
Interestingly, when faced with actually parting with the car, I balked. So, it's staying with me and I'm continuing with the build. At least for now...
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael - I think it may end up staying with me through paint!
Next on the list is to address the darty steering, finalize and install the heater system, and move the Arduino / relay mashup to a more compact and rugged design. And whatever else I think up.
Onward.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - I am glad to hear it Chris. That car deserves to be finished and you deserve to be able to enjoy it finished before/if it moves on to a new owner.
Hazaa
We're the winners here!
I want to see this beast in paint. I don't think you will have any problem getting offers above the "I wouldn't consider less than" figure.
Right on Chris!!!!!!!
Glad this ride is staying in my neighborhood!!!
For the record, I absolutely HATE the name "Beast" for this car.
Knowing her as I do..... I suggest "Crazy Girlfriend".
.... you know that she's going to get you into trouble, and throughout your relationship you have grown tired of her sh#@.... but she's just so much fun! (for now, at least)
#crazygirlfriend
Call me crazy but I say "good night" to all my cars (by name) as I lock up the shop and garage at the end of the day. For whatever reason, I end up calling the 914 "little guy".
Over achiever for his size.....
I would say this car is on this spectrum under redhead.. https://youtu.be/pInk1rV2VEg
That chart was funny as F.
Latest update:
- 21mm front torsion bars out, 19mm in.
- Elephant quick adjust camber plates are gone, replaced with Tarret monoball camber plates
The different camber plates let me get the caster setting into range. I only eyeballed the caster and camber settings and yes, I know that impacts the toe/alignment and there's now way I got it evenly set, side to side. But, ahead of getting aligned, I wanted to see if I could notice a difference so out for a test drive we went.
The good news is that it now wants to self center and there's a ton more steering feel/feedback when cornering.
Still a bunch of suspension stuff to sort out, but I feel like things are now pointing in the right direction, pun intended.
It's headed to S-Car-Go on Tuesday for alignment.
Chris you got the skills you can do all your own alignments at home on a semi flat surface. Matter of fact with a bit of math, and bit of time getting everything set you can do it as good if not better than 95% of the alignment jockeys out there trusting the lasers to get it right.
You can use lasers of course you can make it as fancy as you want or as KISS as it should be.
String nice thin nylon stuff, even fishing line will work.
4 jack stands or something similar to hold above strings parallel to the center line of the car.
A tape measure, metric is handy as you don't have to do all the conversion
Framing square
Painters tape
Plenty of good DIY alignment articles on the web on how too. I would do mine before each race, took an hour to do. For the camber, I just did a chart for each increment, and what that would be in degree.
Awesome! Glad things are moving along in the suspension department!!
Regarding home alignment...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILPv_skgtzE
More Lasers!
Finally got to see the car in person today - what a work of art - beautiful.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20484 Bruce - Great seeing you and Greg! Thanks for the kind words and the goodies!
Back to testing:
Neutral throttle, mid corner, going maybe 7/10s. Add more steering angle and the rear starts to step out. Seems like I wasn't going hard enough to cause that behavior.
I have the Elephant bladed sway bar (no rear bar) and since I had no baseline, it was set at almost full soft. So I:
- went to just under 1/2 way to full stiff on the blade
- lowered front tire pressure to 26, moved rear from 28 to 32
- front shocks (Koni Yellows) were at 1/4 out from full soft so I added 1/2 turn more
Better. I think I'll leave it like this until S-Car-Go sees it as I know the basic alignment settings aren't correct.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2388 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=474 - I've decided I'm going to let the experts set it up. Once it's working the way I want it to, I'll set up a "home brew" alignment kit and check that I can duplicate their values. Once I know I can reliably get accurate numbers, I'll feel a lot better about a DIY approach.
Also, I have access to a set of scales so I can also do corner balancing! We played with these on @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony's and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark's cars. Easy and quite telling.
Sounds like a plan as you are not taking it to Cheap alignments are us. But I know from experience how well some place do an alignment, and I just started doing them myself. Part of it was because I got poor results, and I was doing alignments about once a month. they started to add up.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=474 that was a great video your father did a great job of how to do one with basic tools. Prefer a framing square, but that just me.
I'm filing this under the "not that you'll care" category. But then, some of you may enjoy the sillier things I'm doing on this build.
This time, it's the one-off PCB board designed by Nicco, the young man / programmer in that wireless demo video.
The MagicBox 2.0 will package all the electronics and circuitry needed for "single button control" each of the headlights (as in the video) wipers and heater blower motor from my wireless steering wheel panel. Plus, there's room for other stuff, should I think of anything. This will be enclosed in a nice little box and it replaces that giant wiring mess seen in the video. Also planned is the replacement for the standard auto relays using a tidy Bussmann relay board and micro relays.
Note there are extra boards... Who wants to join me?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Anything that makes our cars electrical systems more reliable, less bulky and simplifies things is a win in my book.
Now let's stir things up a bit, shall we? I wonder what the 914 Design Committee will think of this...
Here's a Cayman PDK. It's sitting in my shop. Other pic is the PDK-to-LS3 adapter.
My tuner is working on a conversion "kit" that will enable my 8-stack induction to be converted to drive-by-wire. This means the PDK/LS contraption will do all that fancy stuff like auto-blip downshifts, etc.
What could possibly go wrong?
While it's true I've already purchased the PDK, I haven't fully committed to doing this.
More to come as I think it through.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
There is no "I" in team.
Back from alignment and first round of suspension adjustments. A noticeable improvement but there's more to do: Tte tires that came with the wheels are mismatched front/rear and the fronts are a bit old, but with full tread depth. Sooo...
I'm fitting a set of Toyo RA1s. Same 225/50 and 245/45 sizes as what's on there now.
They are being shaved 2/32 as part of the install, per S-Car-Go and the shop that's supplying the tires.
Once they have a few miles on them, it's back to S-Car-Go for the next round of adjustments.
It may need more than the 225 rear springs and a bump from 19mm to 20mm torsion bars.
Progress! And the fun continues.
Watching and waiting......
-not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence-- which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. -HP Lovecraft
Wow dude. When does the hover function go in.
One thing I forgot to mention is that as I was driving home from S-Car-Go, I noticed they had added a sticker to my mirror.
They did test drive it and, apparently, agree it goes pretty good!
Pete @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 - Thanks for recommending this shop. Top quality work and a sense of humor - what more could you want?
Attached thumbnail(s)
I love it!
If you want those 250# springs back they yours
With the focus on dialing in the suspension, I'm checking/verifying everything. With no seals in the doors, windows held in by Gorilla tape, etc, the car is a bit of a rattle trap. But I thought I heard a clunk...
I jacked up the rear and gave the wheels a tug then a push. "Clunk, clunk". Hmmm.
Off came the trailing arms and here's what I found.
Anyone else running PolyBronze bearings have an issue like this? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3380
I have to believe there's enough variation in trailing arms that I can't be the only one.
Anyway, I'm planning to chuck the pivot shafts in the lathe and remove the appropriate amount needed to get the clearance into spec. Anyone see any issues with that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3ijb5z9nY
I had the rear wheels off my track car yesterday. The right side has a tiny amount of play. The drivers side has more. I need to put a dial gauge on it and see how much it moves. I wonder what Chuck says is acceptable.
I'm happy with about .010" of end float and accept up to .020" before I feel a need to make alterations.
The "too much end float" issue has been resolved on both sides! (Did I really need to call out that I did both sides? )
So yes, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 Andrew, turning it is the way I opted to go - if only for the weight savings!
Attached thumbnail(s)
"You have the coolest toys Sebastian" Roy
Oh to have a lathe...
Oh to have room for a lathe...
Oh to have room!
I love the fact that your whittling away at this car making it better and better every week
With the trailing arm end float issue addressed, I called S-Car-Go to get their thoughts on rear spring rates. They said move to 250lb. Thanks to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Andy, I could! Thanks for the springs, my friend... I owe you.
So out with the 225s (blue) and in with 250s (red, which I understand are faster!)
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's one for the tool whores and any users of @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 Tangerine Racing's upper rear shock mounts.
If you don't have this setup in your car, you likely won't understand, nor would you need to! If you do have it, and haven't come up with your own solution, you can buy me a coffee when/if we see each other:
The upper mounting bolt on the shaft can only be installed AFTER the shaft passes through the multi-piece spherical bearing. This means there's nothing holding the spring in place during install until you get everything fully seated in the upper mount. I found it a real treat trying to get the shocks installed by myself until I noodled out this solution:
Take the stock top fastener, and cut off that flared part. Install the spring and use the now modified piece as the top bolt. It just happens to slide right through the Tangerine spherical bearing! Attach the shock to the trailing arm, jack it into place, remove your home-made top nut tool, install the upper spherical bearing spacer and shock top nut. Ta-da! The shock is in place with no muss, no fuss! Shock removal/installation is now an easy one person job.
You're welcome.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Another "why would I care about this, Tygaboy?" post.
Progress on tidying up the wireless steering wheel button improvements.
At the very least, it gives you an idea of how small this contraption is going to be.
On a more practical front, I'm waiting on Toyo for my set of RA1s. Shipping delays, apparently...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The throttle response is still a bit touchy. This hasn't been too big an issue and I thought I was pretty much used to it. But now that I've started working to develop the suspension and have been doing a bit of spirited driving in the twisties, I find it's a real distraction. What to do?
Put another way: How can I spend the most money and redo as much work as possible?
Well, it turns out EFI Hardware, the company that makes the throttle cam I used to help soften off idle throttle response, makes a generic DBW actuator. I spoke with my tuner about it and we're now in the process of seeing if we can convert my ITBs from cable to DBW. This will allow me to program the throttle pedal to work however I want!
Here's proof the electronic side of things can, in fact, be made to work.
It will require I move to a new ECU as the Holley HP I'm running now doesn't support DBW. Plus, I'll need to work out the physical mounting location and linkage set up in an area where there's not a lot of room.
Won't this be fun?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rAYWLpCWlk
What sort of sign is it when your 914 buddies @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark both show up at your place BOTH driving these blasphemous cars?
I couldn't help but burst into a fitting song: Ebony and Ivory.
OK, truth be told, we were headed to look at a 928 that a friend is selling, so this was actually quite fitting.
Attached thumbnail(s)
As I keep up the development work, I find more things that need improvement.
One item is the H2O pump set up. I started with the Meziere electric, but without modulation capabilities, the car doesn't come up to operating temp in cold/cool weather.
No, I'm not running a thermostat.
I tried running the pump via a Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) signal from the ECU but it never worked correctly. (I won't bother with those details - PM me if you really want to know...)
On top of that, I ended up frying the solid state relay. Now, it's possible I got a bad relay but because I soooo like doing things multiple times...
I've opted to replace the Meziere pump with a Davies Craig 150 and matching controller. Others, like @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 Andrew, have had great success with these so I'm going with that recommendation.
Attached image(s)
And as long as I'm replacing things, I decided I'd give the Holley digital dash a go, too.
I used the following to convince myself it's a great idea:
- It's plug & play with the Holley ECU - no extra sensors needed
- The dash reports what the ECU sees/does - lots of interesting data logging capabilities
- It eliminates all the SpeedHut gauge wiring: sensor wiring, for the dash lighting, etc. It tidies things up quite a bit.
- The dash is all sorts of configurable and touch screen controllable. The pics below are only a few of the standard backgrounds. Plus you can design and upload your own. Both gauges and digital switches can be added to the dash. If I need switches in addition to what I have on the wireless steering wheel panel, I can add them!
Attached image(s)
The Holley dash means I need to make a new gauge panel. I can surface mount it (the upper design) or flush mount it (the lower design).
I need to try both and see which I like best.
A little CAD and I'm ready for the plasma table. Hope to get them fitted tomorrow.
Attached image(s)
And as long as we're on non-914 stuff, here's more!
A friend was selling his Radical ProSport and asked me to help get it ready to show. Man o' man! This is such a cool car! I came dangerously close to buying it... I mean, don't I look awesome in it? But no. I don't need the distraction and, somehow, found the will to resist. Anyway, the buyer came and bought it. However, he's a bit too tall to fit the car, as is.
Longish story short - and those of you who have followed my build will get a kick out of this - I've been asked to fab a new firewall for this bad boy!
What do you think - plain or with stampings?
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have a couple of 928 wheels for anybody who wants them - also know of where MC Hammer's 924Turbo is & it's for sale but in sad shape. If anyone cares tho....
I'll preface this post the same way I do when telling my wife things about my build:
"Not that you'd care, but..."
Here's a quick vid showing progress with the Holley digital dash. It's really pretty neat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq0_ZTOy47Y
Fun stuff Chris!! That Holley dash will be great!!
Show us some of the firewall stuff if you can!
Keep blazing trails, I'm taking notes.
I too dare you to go plain said the metal porn sadist to the tool whore masochist.
Not that I didn't like the look of the SpeedHut gauges but given I have an ashtray delete dash top (not installed yet) and there will nothing on the dash, no switches and probably not even a glove box, this "nothing there" gauge panel looks like it's the perfect compliment to the build: super clean and simple. And it'll really disappear once I paint the panel black.
I like it!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hi @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 Chris. I like the multiple options for that gauge pod. I need to come up and check it out in person.
Today's lesson is "How to Make a 914 Look Big".
The Red Barn is going to be a bit crowded for the next few days and my focus will be on fabbing a new firewall for the Radical. But with such a cool shop mate, I think my car will be OK!
Plus, I just treated it to a set of Toyo RA1s so I'll tolerate no complaints.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Damned fat pig.
perspective
Fuel tank V3: Live and learn.
That giant fuel cap that seemed like a great idea? Turns out that in order to fill the tank, I have to use my hand to release the pump handle's fill neck seal/trigger contraption to get the pump to flow. Better is that in order to comfortably do that, my head ends up under the hood, right above the unsealed filler. I decided I didn't want to breath fumes like that...
So. I bought a new tank ($212 shipped - from Parts Geek, of all places) and started over.
My goal with this version is no welding on the tank. The big filler cap required that I mod the tank to create a large enough flat mounting surface. Not required with this smaller filler - and it worked out great. I think it looks good, too.
On to fitting the in-tank pump, which looks like it, too, can be installed with no welding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow, thats a great price for a tank! Filler cap looks nice
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - That looks amazing. I must admit putting fuel in my tank requires me to contort my body as I hold the collar on the fuel nozzle up so it will flow fuel into the tank. I really do not like doing that.
Chris - is that Holley cap vented? How does air get back into the tank as fuel is used (or is that dealt with somewhere else in the system)? Curious,
- Tony
Here are the photos of the Holley fill cap, the FiTech pump module, and adapter. Sorry for the crappy back yard rusty fuel tank, but you get the picture.
Andys
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=721
The cap is mounted on the driver side, on the flat forward of the tank seam. I made a split ring with some sealed nuts welded on to it, slipped it into position then tacked the edge of the ring to the tank. Then got some fuel proof gasket material and made a suitable sealing ring. Seems to work fine.
My cap is not vented as I run an AeroMotive Phantom 340 in-tank pump and the assembly has a vent outlet. See pic. Not my car, just a suitable pic.
Andy, isn't that a vent tube connector on the back side of your pump?
My pump assembly mounts (essentially) where the original filler was. I still run the standard fuel level sensor.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris,
So you are modifying/welding your new fuel tank to fit both the AeroMotive module and the fill cap. BTW, did you fab the filler neck? I couldn't find one like it.
My good tank (in the car) has some fuel in it, so I'll avoid any welding. I'll only be drilling for the Holley filler neck. I'll probably add some small flat head screws topside to hold the split ring in place. Yes, the FiTech has a vent fitting; I'd still like to run an expansion tank if it's doable.
Nice work, as usual, Chris.
Andys
I had the same concern with my cap so I added this to it, which slips in first and uses 4 of the bolts to hold it in place.
The dash panel, painted w/SEM Trim Black and ready to install. So stealthy! I love it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I have to say that, despite your egregious failure to get approval from the 914world design team, it looks really good.
Those brackets look as though they could have come with the kit, top notch work.
Initial fitting of the ashtray-delete fiberglass dash top with the Holley dash in place. Silver fasteners? Black fasteners? Oh! Maybe rivets all around the outside, to echo the fire wall? I'll have to see how I feel as I look at it a bit more.
I plan a glove box delete, too, so the entire dash, everywhere, will be filled with as much nothingness as I can add.
I'm loving the way this latest set of updates is coming together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That stock shroud above the gauges isn't ideal for shading them. Hmm.
:scratching chin:
Lol, freakin' peanut gallery.
OH thats niiiice!!
Today, it's wiring the Holley dash. The CAN technology is SOOOO nice in that everything the ECU monitors can be displayed on the dash via a couple wires. No more wires running to the dash from every sensor!
The only additional wires needed are for anything the ECU doesn't know about. In my case, that's:
- fuel level
- oil temp
- left and right turn indicators
- high beam indicator
- 5v sensor power (for the "added" fuel and oil temp sensors)
- sensor ground (again, for these "added" sensors)
I employed that wire junction block so I could have sections of the overall harness that could be more easily installed and removed from the chassis without having to fish more/longer wiring and/or large connectors through holes in the body.
In all, I'm pretty happy with how this area of the wiring is turning out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Some progress setting up the dash. So far, this thing is proving to be super cool. Tons of configurability and pretty easy to work with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbgRANGETJM
Playing with dash configuration. I deleted a couple digital read outs that I wasn't going to use and figured I put the clock down there. Then I remembered: I hadn't yet drilled holes for the seat heater switches...
A really neat feature of this dash is that you can add "switches" to it. These can be set to do a number of things but in this case, it'll trigger the relay that powers the seat heat. The switch style is configurable but I went with the "small silver toggle". When you touch the switch, the toggle "flips up". It's pretty cool.
And I redid the high beam indicator. That dark dot just above / left of the tach? That's a "gauge" that I set to be an indicator, set to dull blue and triggered with the high beam. It's visible but far less bright than the LED set up in the earlier video.
So. Many. Options.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is way to trick!!! Can you make the gauge glow red for a shift light or something?
I got the dash installed with a basic layout and configuration that I liked and today, I took the car to the Novato Cars & Coffee. We were well represented with @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Andy, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark in attendance, as well.
The car got a fair bit of attention and I received a lot of nice comments about the overall vibe of the build. I'll admit, it was gratifying to hear positive feedback from pretty serious car folks who'd never seen it before.
Anyway - If you're not into this digital dash stuff, this will be pretty boring. But if you are? This thing is so dang cool!
I worked out a way to get a more obvious visual indication that my seat heater switches are on. Take a watch, if you're curious. It's just over a minute long.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 - it has a set of LEDs along the top border that serve as a programmable, sequential shift light.
And did I say how much I like this dash?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5nbmZuQZ_U
Very cool layout and I like all of the information you can get out of that setup. Hayy 4th Chris.
I removed the sump from the fuel tank I've been running. Moving to the new fuel tank that isn't getting welded on means I needed to update the in-tank pump bracket so it drops into the sump. A little bend... bend... and it's done and slides right in.
Yes, this moves the pump up a bit so I lose access to maybe 3/8" of fuel level.
Famous last words but if I let the fuel level get that low, I deserve to run out!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Today's post may be boring, but at least it's actually sorta 914 related!
New tank all done. This version is all "no welding", as far as the filler cap and fuel pump fitment. I did spot weld the fuel filter bracket to the tank flange. Everything sure turned out nicely, IMO.
When it's apart for paint, I'll powder coat the hold-down strap and redo all the hardware cad plating.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Don't be fuelish, it is very interesting.
Looking good!!
HUGE thanks to Bob @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=194 for personally driving these seats from GA to CA! Bob, it was great meeting you and your wife. Oh, and your pup, Henry, too!
These are the seats I purchased from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1544 . They are super nice and more supportive in the upper bolster area than the GT Classics LeMans seats I have. But now that I've seen then in my car, I'm not quite sure if I'm digging the look, compared to the LeMans', so the jury is still out on if I'll keep them.
If I do keep them, I'll likely have them redone in black with appropriately colored tartan inserts. I'm leaning toward the GTI tartan pictured.
But again, I can't thank Bob enough for making this happen. It's always great to meet another 914 World member in person, put face to name and shake hands with a new friend.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
I like the look of those seats. What makes them look odd is the padding on the aft section of the headrest. The GTI upholstery looks good too. Especially if you go blue on the exterior.
They would look great with the other material
Yeah, I like those too. Of course they need to be covered, but otherwise those look nice to my eyes.
I like the Tartan pattern!!
Those are Skinny boy seats for sure
I like the Lemans personally, but if you tartan up those Renegade seats I might like them more .
I like the Le Mans seats more. Maybe, its the little medallion vents, (I don't know what they are called) that look classy. I'm leaning to getting the Recaros that were used on the Big Laguna car. I sat in them and was very pleased. I'm curious why are you even wanting to make a change from the Le Mans seats? Were they that bad?
Well. After mucking about with the throttle bodies, I'm going back to a stock LS3 intake manifold and a single drive-by-wire (DBW) throttle body.
Without going into too much detail, I've learned a LOT about these systems. Things like:
- very minor throttle openings (from idle) QUICKLY add air flow. This means you build a fuel map that looks at the TPS (throttle position sensor) in like 2% steps, up until about 20% open throttle
- from about 65% - 100% throttle, there's actually very little increase in air flow. My engine is getting all the air it needs at ~65% throttle! And let's be honest, in my case, it's not a race car so I spend virtually ALL my time at very low throttle openings
- in a light car, minor pedal movement, um... "makes things happen"
In short, ITBs, particularly my cable-driven version, make driving my car anywhere but the freeway, an experience that requires 100% attention. It's more mental work than I want to do. But please don't get me wrong. I LOVE these things. Just not how they currently work.
So for now, I'm moving to the stock intake. Of course, my Holley HP ECU doesn't support DBW so I'll be replacing the HP with a Holley Dominator ECU, building a new engine wiring harness and, as pictured, moving to a DBW throttle pedal. This is a stock Corvette pedal that I've chopped up and will connect to the Tilton throttle pedal with rod ends and an appropriate length rod.
Yes, the brake line needs to be moved - this is just initial fitting to determine linkage specs. I'll tidy it up once all the dimensions are known.
The good news is that the Dominator ECU can be used to alter how the throttle body responds to the pedal!
For example, if I want 10% pedal to only be 5% throttle body opening, I can do that.
This should make for a pedal that does exactly what I want and feels the way I want it to feel. Who-Ray.
Let this round of "doing things over" begin!
And fear not. I'm working with my tuner on converting the ITBs to DBW. It requires a bunch of custom stuff but what fun would it be if that wasn't the case?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hi Chris - Wow. I really love the look of the ITBs. But if they don't allow you to make the car drivable the way you want, then I understand the switch. It's not like you won't have tons of HP anyway. Hopefully in the next month or so I will get a chance to come over and BS with you.
At least you don't need to cut the trunk....
Well. Clearly not as cool looking as ITBs, but not bad.
I did upgrade from the stock fuel rails to the Holley set you (sorta) see here. This to keep the same return-based fuel system plumbing I already have in place.
I have a few additional things in mind to try and recoup at least some style points. Let's see how I do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
R2D2 could fit there and talk to all the electronics for ya
DBW mechanical connections all set. Really happy with how this turned out. There is ZERO slop or flex and the linkage ratio is adjustable over a pretty wide range so beyond being able to program how the throttle body responds to the pedal, I can also tune the physical pedal travel to feel just how I want it.
But maybe the best part is that red indicator toward the left end of the custom linkage bar. It's a shallow groove which was then colored red. Why? It's a visual reminder that it's the left-hand thread end. No more guessing which way to turn the jam nuts when adjustments are needed.
It's the little things...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Those pedals look so cool and high tech. Bummer about the ITB's but in the end you do want to drive the car and not be on pins and needles and worrying about the throttle input.
Now that you've done all that work....
you should be able to get a progressive pulley for the cable TB to numb the off-idle response.
Oh I like that throttle pedal setup. Very nice!
The ITB fuel rails used a unique fuel pressure regulator which can't (easily) be made to work with the new Holley fuel rails. So.
I opted to go with a Holley integrated filter/regulator that's preset to support the LS requirements. What's nice is that by mounting it at the front, as pictured (using the same mount that was there for the Aeromotive filter!), I can route the return right back to the pump and only run a single fuel line to the engine.
At the back, I'll add a Y connector and connect to each fuel rail. Each rail is then dead-headed so I eliminate the cross over line at the back of engine. In the end, it's a simpler, tidier set up.
Now it's on to updating the ECU and engine harness.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Right back to non-914 related stuff:
Apparently, my car will now DOMINATE!
Beyond that, I now get to (have to) build another complete engine harness because: new ECU.
Actually, I'm really excited to do this because I know I can do a far better job. Partly because I've got some solid experience under my belt but also because I've been taking an on-line motorsports wiring course from HP Academy.
http://www.hpacademy.com
These folks offer courses in wiring (basics through full-on motorsports wiring harness construction), EFI tuning, engine tuning, and suspension and car set up.
I'm about 1/3 of the way through their Motorsports wiring course and it's really, REALLY good. Easy to understand, content-rich, examples of actually doing most of the things you'll need to do... it goes on and on.
I'm not affiliated w/them in any way but will happily say that if you're interested in learning about anything they teach, you won't be disappointed. Excellent stuff. Plus they're Aussies so you get the awesome accent at no add'l cost!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Today, I made up new lines to support this little Y connector. This wraps up the revised, "single fuel line to the engine" plumbing. I'm happy with how it turned out.
And you can see another reason I'm excited to re-do the engine harness: Messy / unincorporated wiring.
As I'm working through the teething issues and other parts of the development process, I found I needed a few additional wires and related connectors, as well wanting to relocate some items , i.e. O2 sensor moving to the other side header. I've also added items like the digital dash so the re-do will allow me to fully incorporate everything into a updated harness.
Attached thumbnail(s)
For this go around, I want to mount electrical components inside the car whenever I can.
The Dominator ECU is much wider than the HP its replacing and as much as I wish I could mount it behind or under the passenger seat, it simply doesn't fit - at least not without losing a fair bit of passenger leg room or notching the floor or changing the shape of the bottom of the seats. I didn't want to do any of that.
So, it's going just in front of the passenger seat. This frees up the under seat area for the various relays and fuses that will also be moved from their current location in the engine compartment.
But that means I need a way to get the various harnesses and wires from the ECU to under the seat. Running them over/around things wouldn't be appropriate. So...
I used a piece of 3" round tubing, slid it over a scrap piece of 1.5" DOM and put it in the press. Then, with a bit of hammer/dolly work, I end up with a nice, oval tube. Best of all, a couple 1.75" hole saw holes and "connect the dots" and I have the oval openings in the floor cross-member. In goes the oval tube, a bit of TIG and some metal finishing and I have the pass-throughs. Here's a pic of one done and the other about to be welded in.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the mock up. The ECU is pretty much out of the way but I'll fab some sort of protective cover for it, just to be sure it's safe.
There are a couple more harnesses with separate connectors that have to get to the ECU: one for the DBW system and once for some "neat-o" capabilities I may try and use.
And yes, I tested that with the seat frame lowered all the way, the wires clear everything.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good Chris. I feel your pain trying to find the right areas to add extra electrical components. I didn’t realize how messy my wiring got and relocated a bunch of stuff to the rear trunk directly behind the firewall.
I like it just for the COOL factor
Nice spot! HP academy has always been on my radar.
I really like the pass through as well! It’s those little details that really make everything nice.
Got started on an initial version of the ECU cover. The holes will be drilled, knock out punched to the appropriate size then given the dimple die treatment.
I was going to ramp down the sides but now that I've seen it in place, I think I'll make it the full width of the floor and install a hinge along the front edge for access. Yes, that means the seat has to come out to get to the ECU but that's OK with me.
And imagine that - it's going to take me a couple versions before I get something I like...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Glad to see that I didn't slow you down too much by showing up and shooting the breeze for a bit today.
I like those ovals for the ECU harness to pass thru.
Very clean (of course) and nicely done. I love the cover for the electronics in front of the seat.
I like the location of the ECU & the oval pass throughs. Well though out & executed as always. Nice work bro
Those ovals........
Ya couldn't just done a circle huh
Your craftmanship is over the top. There is art in everything that you're doing. Love it man.
What about adding an flange/lip to the floor to hold the front of the cover. Slide the front of the cover under the flange and bolt down the back. Something like this.
More non-914 related things on the build:
I've been binging the HP Academy wiring courses and happily admit I've been seduced by the dark side of the (wiring) force! Armed with nothing new other than excitement and the firm belief I can do a MUCH better job, I decided to go all in on and re-wire my entire car.
Out with the fuses and relays and in with an ECU Master PMU. I have a friend who's a MoTec dealer and he agreed the ECU Master product was a better fit for my purposes than the equivalent MoTec product.
What pushed me over the edge was that, among other things, I can use the PMU to essentially replicate what I was doing with the Arduino. The programmability of these things is impressive.
All that said, there are supply issues with many of the connectors I'm planning to use so the 914 will be back burnered for a bit. In the meantime, I'll be installing the 'Vette suspension in RacerBenz. Check the GrassRoots Motorsports build thread for details, if you're interested.
Attached image(s)
May as well go all-in on the non-914 stuff and bore you to death. On the other hand, this is a great post for fellow tool whores!
If you know what this tool is, you'll know what's going on with the new wiring harness.
OK, OK... It's a specialty crimping tool for the Autosports connectors I'm planning to use for virtually all connectors in the car.
So yes, I'm going to take a swing at building a concentrically twisted harness, example of what I'm after in the other pic. Exciting, scary and challenging at the same time. My kind of project!
This won't be cheap. It'll take a lot of time. It's entirely unnecessary for my car...
Why would I do this?
I've asked myself that question about a lot of the stuff on this build. For whatever reason, as I enter my mid-60s, I've become almost obsessed with wanting to learn new things and try to build my skill set. Let's see how this goes.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks like the Candy Man paid a visit
The realm of F1 and LeMans prototypes. Take us there Chris! Will the Benz monster get
these electrical wizardry components as well? So very cool.
Amazing. That wiring looks like it should be exposed throughout the car it is going to be so very pretty.
Fancy! An AF8 and turret too! I've always made due with an adjustable positioner at home; the turret is a really nice upgrade-makes everything faster.
Using AS or MIL-DTL-26482[-type] connectors?
Assuming you've drooled over the RBR Racing page:
https://rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html
I haven't seen the HPA wiring videos, but do they go over shrink tube wire labels and then covering them with clear shrink tube?
The PMU16 looks like a really cool unit. Those guys are so new to the market (relatively), but have really shook it up, particular on the PDM side. Looking forward to seeing you implement it and some real world reviews. I think you're MoTeC contact is right to recommending ECUMaster. The PDM15/etc. doesn't seem to get you many more features if any. Now if you had an M1 ECU, or something like an S8/PDU3X or something maybe that would be different. But really not super beneficial for a street car either.
That’s awesome! Seems like the HPA crew does a really good job delivering a lot of value and demistifying the whole process. Are most of those videos with Zac Perston?
Looking forward to some details! As someone who is just too busy at the moment to do any car stuff, it’s nice to live vicariously haha
An LS is here, as you know.
A Cayman PDK is here. You can see it right there.
Today's news is that an LS-to-Cayman PDK adapter showed up. How it knew the other components were here, I have NO idea.
There's a ton of work between what you see here and a car that can be made to operate utilizing these components. The TCU (trans control unit) I need to use is "getting there", in terms of real world readiness. So, this subproject is staying on the back burner, at least for a little while. But it's nice to know all the parts are here. And man, are they beautiful!
On a bit different note, look at how wide the PDK axle flanges are! I'm a bit concerned about axle length and CV angles, at least in a 914 running stock trailing arms. We'll see...
Attached thumbnail(s)
The other parts of the adapter kit. The PDK clutches stay attached to the trans. The plate you see here is the flywheel. A bit funny looking with no bolt holes other than for the coupler flange. An LS flex plate gets put in there, too, so there'll be a ring gear for the starter.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sorta like this, but with that flywheel and an LS3 attached to it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yeowzers! Whats the flange to flange dimension on those axles?
Your using 930 CV's right? If not you might have to simply for angle...
This is going to be nuts in that car...
Finally, some actual 914 content! Wait. Actually, no.
This is a BMW 2002 mirror. Sorry, I gotta get better at this.
For those of you interested, this is a super cool update. You do have to carefully drill and countersink for the mounting screws and cut/grind a small bump on the mirror's mounting surface. That's all pretty easily done. And once it is?
No more "mirror stuck (or not!) on the windshield". I haven't yet drilled this for the visor mounts because I think I'm going to run a largish shade band instead. What you see on there now is Gorilla tape, because Tygaboy. Hey, it let's me quickly test how big a band I want, what works while still allowing me to see traffic lights, etc.
And on an unrelated and happy note:
As some may know, I'm on a twice yearly, full body skin cancer screening program. This morning was my 4th in a row "all clear" result. This long with no new issues means I now move to once-a-year checks. Yea for me! And fuck cancer.
Remember your sunscreen, people.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And right back to non-914 stuff! Again, not ITBs but still pretty cool looking. The Holley EFI systems are speed density systems so I don't need the traditional MAF sensor ahead of the throttle body. With a MAF sensor, I'd need some amount of intake tube between the air cleaner and throttle body. Not with the Holley stuff. I can just do this!
Yes, this is essentially the exact opposite of a cold air intake set up but it gets me running again. I have a couple ideas for isolating the air cleaner from heat. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony, you know what I'm talking about...!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Speaking of air cleaner ideas, I have no issues with an "imitation is the sincerest from of flattery" approach and I stumbled onto the Factory Five GTM intake set ups. I think I can leverage some of these ideas and still keep the current headers. If not? I've always wanted to build my own headers...
How about like that top picture with the intakes being fed by vent's in the fenders? Like @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19709 Glen's rendered versions?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
A built in MAF is another reason Im looking at the Holley. Ive been watching a ton of videos about the system.
I think this will feed my cold air
Chris: Congratulations on the results of your cancer screening program. Stay diligent and…..yeah, fuck cancer.
Hey Chris- Congratulations buddy. Skin cancer is pretty serious. Just yesterday I scheduled my yearly screening. I am sure however you get cold air into that motor it will be cool (see what I did?). I love Glen's rendering-that car is stunning.
Congrats Chris on the cancer clearing!!!
I like the mirror solution, Have it in mine as I had a new window put in and didnt want to stick anything to it. So much cleaner.
That's great news on your screening!
Chris. What model BMW did the mirror come from?
Cheers to your health Keep up the good work! Always watching for the next thing
John
Thanks for all the nice thoughts on my cancer screening status. I really appreciate it.
POTENTIAL GORY PIC ALERT!!!
On the other hand (literally! ), you all forgot to wish me well on not being injured!
This was RacerBenz related. As I was working away on it, one of the "in-place but not yet tacked in" roll cage tubes fell out of position and the wonderfully mitered (read "sharp") end landed smack on my hand.
The fun part was when I moved my fingers, all of which thankfully still work, I could see one of the tendons moving back and forth. That's when I decided I should sit down for a a bit before heading to the ER. Virtually no blood but man did I get light headed. In the end, it was a quick stitch job and I was back in the shop this afternoon.
Anyway, another reminder that we need to do all we can to be safety minded. So you all be careful out there in your shops!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chicks love scars..... Dude, really, you got to wear gloves. You need both of your hands for at least another 50 years.
Ouch!!!! Glad it wasnt worse!
For the record, Chris is ALWAYS wearing gloves. I once saw him eat a burrito with gloves.
..... ok, maybe not..... but he is always wearing gloves.
Me on the other had?? Not so much.
Damn Chris! Ouch! What’s that 5 there? Heal quickly. Congrats on the skin ca. I go yearly myself. All in the scalp. Can’t add much to the air intakes but yeah fed in from the forward edge of the rear flares is cool. I’m partial to some roof type scoop like the Porsche GT1.Bimmer mirror looks brilliant.
The PMU is here! It's tiny and it's light. It's amazing that this little thing replaces all the fuses and all but a couple of the relays. And the programmability is really cool. I mentioned that with a few settings, it replaces the Arduino and all those relays.
From the wireless steering wheel panel I'll be able to control:
- running lights, high beam and low beams with a single button
- wiper low, high (plus I'm pretty sure I can program it to run intermittently, using the stock motor!) with a single button
- fresh air blower low, medium, high with a single button.
And remember, I can add switches to the Holley digital dash that can talk to the PMU...
The possibilities are nearly endless so if you need me, I'll be in the Red Barn!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That's a trick unit!!! The details your working on are really awesome!!
Chris-seeing the PDM makes me feel so much better-that Arduino just wasn’t doing it with this level of build!
Never seen one of ECUMaster units in person, it’s interesting seeing the scale. I didn’t realize they were so compact.
The past month or so I've been focused on the RacerBenz build - and it's coming right along! If you're interested:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/racerbenz-my-cl500-track-day-car-build/182195/page1/
But that's on pause while I wait for some parts and noodle on a couple design issues.
So... I'm back on the 914.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Andy stopped by a couple weeks back and as we were looking at my 914, he says, essentially, "Why don't you make a custom rear transmission mount set up? What's in there now is sorta wonky and doesn't look cohesive. You should put a cross bar about here..."
Anyway, a brief design conversation followed and after Andy left, I couldn't un-see just how wonky my trans mount is/was.
As pictured below: I have the complete Renegade LS/6-speed mounting kit, albeit with the 1.5" spacers added. And to be fair, their stuff was designed to work in a totally stock 914 chassis - and it all works very well. But given all the stuff I've done to my chassis, I can't believe it took someone else pointing out this obvious opportunity to cut up a perfectly good part and change things up! So thanks a lot Andy. It's people like you that make me a serial fabricator.
Let's get this mod modded, shall we?
Attached thumbnail(s)
The overall design is:
- run a 1.75", .095 wall tube just behind the suspension towers to serve as the main cross bar
- add four mounting bungs to the cross bar that replace the 914 chassis' transmission mounting points
- add plating to the main section of the Renegade mount that appropriately locates each side's large trans mount bolt
- weld it all together so everything fits (!)
- add bracing from the top of the shock towers to the cross bar
Start by updating the Renegade mount design. Those who've see these know they have two lower pieces that bolt on to the main mount, once it's bolted to the trans. I figured I could get the main mount on/off even if I welded on one of the lower mounts. That's what you see on the right, lower side.
You can also see the added plate (on the right side) that will serves as the location for the large trans mounting bolt. The trans mounts will sit on top of that.
The Sharpie lines show where the planned trimming has yet to be done, and of course, the always desirable style points gusset panel has been added!
Attached thumbnail(s)
One for the tool whores: A hand-held metal router! This thing is too cool.
The Renegade mount has a bunch of holes in it. I went to town with the router and couldn't be happier with how it echoes the look of a dimple die.
Style point, baby. Style points...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here you can see the plans for eliminating more of the Renegade mount. First, the weld-in threaded bung was removed from part of the mount that had already been eliminated. It was then moved in-board in preparation for the now unneeded material to be cut off.
In all, I think I'm eliminating around 15 pounds from the rear of the car.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Cool!
Thanks for the Fix Man
Wow- 15 pounds is not insignificant at the rear of these cars. I am sure that new transaxle mount is going to look very cool.
Idk why it took me so long to read sll the way through racer benz but i finally did and you are doing something i always wanted to do! make something mid engine that wasnt. I just want to do it on a hatch back of the 80s. Now i see where you have been all this time.
Really like the look of that crossbar with the holes!!
Here's a big surprise: Change of plans!
The initial design for the main mount was looking too bulky. So, instead of the large plate mounting area, it's gonna be like this. And yes, I'm addicted to my little metal router. It does a really nice job of stylin' up plain holes and shapes.
A bit more to go on the mount then it's on to the cross-bar.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow, that is looking really good Chris!
Benz Be Bangin
The latest distraction arrived today. I can proudly state that I've got ownership of German cars pretty much nailed (yes, a bit non-standard) with a 914 hot rod, a Mercedes endurance racer and this BMW.
This '74 CSA (automatic) will likely get the expected updates: euro bumpers and a 5-speed conversion, wheel and suspension upgrades and and interior refresh.
If you're interested, I'll be posting all that on the E9 Forum starting soon.
For now, it's back to the 914!
Attached thumbnail(s)
BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!
Very nice choice- beautiful cars. This should be fun.
Nice choice. One of the most beautiful coupes ever made.
Nice Beemer. Does is still have the USA ride height spacers under the springs?
Back to the 914:
Updated rear suspension mount all final welded, Wevo mounts attached and everything ready for the cross bar to be fabbed.
A couple more days' work and I'll be hacking out that factory transmission mounting member.
That, and a couple of other mods I'm planning, will really change the look of the engine compartment. I just love working on this thing!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Luv that BMW coupe! The Benz is coming along nicely. Awesome those frame-rails had the perfect trajectory. Keep it coming Chris.
More trans mount stuff: After pattern making and fitting, the spreader plates got fully welded on the bench, drilled for the plug welds, then clamped in place to facilitate fitting the cross bar. The black, over-sprayed paint is weld-through primer.
The plate assembly will be fully edge welded to the chassis.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then the cross bar gets the "trim, test fit, trim, test fit..." treatment until everything sits in its "happy place"! The front edge of the tube was trimmed (vs. cutting into the shock tower) to get the tube to move forward enough to center over the new mount location. This approach made it simpler to solve for the spreader plates. Anyway, it's all ready for final welding to commence.
Once fully welded, I'll fab some sort of bracketry that drops from the cross bar to the Wevo mounts, similar to the factory set up, but with some added style points - hopefully.
Still noodling on a bracing set up from the shock towers to the mount areas. Maybe an X, maybe a Y, maybe permanent, maybe bolt on. You'll know once I do!
And that wacky strap that's welded to the factory cross bar is the high-tech method for holding the rear of the trans in place while all this fab is happening. (Don't hate me - it works and doesn't get in the way.)
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7712 mentioned the bevel tool was small but the pic didn't really show just how small. I just can't live thinking I've disappointed Jeff, a fellow tool whore, with my poor representations of a tool () so here's a shot showing just how small these babies are.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the next part the bevel tool beveled. This and a little folding in the brake...
Attached thumbnail(s)
...gets me the initial version of the transmission mount hanger brackets. I say initial version" because I'm still developing my skills around translating poster board templates into steel parts.
You can see the bend location isn't quite right and I've got too big a gap where the tabs should be touching the horizontal surface.
As I've said many times before, it's a good thing I'm not trying to make a living doing this...
That said, I'm really happy with the overall design and how this entire cross bar set up is turning out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking wonderful!
So happy that you beefed everything up!
I didn't like how the initial version of the hanger brackets were a bit too roundy between the side gussets. Plus, the vertical surface hit the cross bar a bit too high. I also narrowed up the width at the top so the the gussets didn't need to fold so far past 90 degrees. I just liked the look of a bit less angle.
So, here's what I think are the final versions of everything, with the cross bar tacked to the spreader plates and the hanger brackets bolted to the transmission mounts.
And yes, I'll be adding a bridging gusset between the front and rear hanger mounts, essentially just like the factory design.
Next, it's triple-double check that everything is aligned / leveled then tack the hanger brackets to the cross bar. From there, the entire cross bar assembly gets removed from the car and final welded on the bench. That's when the bridge gussets will go on. Finally, the completed assembly is final fitted and welded to the chassis.
With a bit of luck, the factory transmission mount cross member will be removed this week. Can't wait to see this transformation.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With the various components fitted and things tacked in place, the entire contraption gets pulled to weld on the bench.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Leaving the mounts attached helps ensure the hanger brackets stay in plane to each other during welding. Yes, the melty parts get removed before any significant welding begins.
The welds you see on the edges of the hanger brackets are to close up the scoring cuts I made to force the bend to occur RIGHT where I wanted it. This approach means that from the other side, the side you'll see, it looks like one piece!
Plus, this allows for a crisper bend which, to my eye, makes the part look a bit lighter.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next was to CAD up a small gusset that ties one hanger bracket to the other.
If you look at the factory trans mount, you'll see a similar design - just nowhere near as stylish.
I added these on the outside only. I'm leaving the inside open to allow for getting the nut and a wrench in there to install/remove the mount.
Attached thumbnail(s)
All welded and back in for a test fit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's always a bit nerve-wracking when you weld something out of the car then "see" if it still fits...
With things only set in place, not even bolted down, everything lined up perfectly. Man, I love it when a plan comes together!
Last step is to bolt the mounts to the hanger brackets and weld the spreader plates to the chassis.
And no, that's not a missed weld at the gusset-to-cross bar joint.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Sweet!
Tingly
WOW! That looks sooo good!
"A Thing of Beauty"!
You dreamers/fabricators/welders never cease to amaze me.
With all the dimensions verified, the transmission mount gets (mostly) welded in. I still have to get under the car and finish a could areas. But more than enough is done to allow me to remove the factory cross bar. And you know I've been chomping to get rid of it since @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Andy first suggested I come up with a new mount.
I thought you might enjoy seeing it happen, so, here you go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR5kpPJnKXs
So here's the new look my engine compartment is sporting! I think it looks amazing.
So much tidier and a way better match to the vibe of the build.
Attached thumbnail(s)
NICE!!!!!
Wow! Where did all the "stuff" go? Much cleaner look- me like.
"Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close up."
I've been thinking about finishes so I figured it wouldn't hurt to give it a quick squirt of black, since that's part of a theme I'm considering: All the tubes in black, the body in non-black. Still not sure.
Something else that struck me was to have that big ol' main transmission mount cad plated, like the shifter bits you see there on the right side of the trans.
I think what's there now is too much black.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here are the major parts that got removed. If anyone wants to move their Boxster trans and engine forward 1.5", let me know. I'll give you a good deal on some custom aluminum spacers...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Saweeet! That looks so dang clean! Excellent work! I would have suggested it sooner if I knew you were going to mention me by name in a video!
Before and after.
ITBs are cool, but overall? I'll take after.
Attached image(s)
I like the after. I just took a nice big clean filtered breath in its honor.
Gotta be better for cooler air intake and measurable tuning too.
So Clean , and Easy Tune,,
Good design and quality execution is art.
You are:
The Picasso of the Puddle
The Warhol of Weld
The Bob Ross of Bead
Just don't go all Van Gogh with the Sawzall.
Now you have plenty of room for both turbos, and the intercoolers.
- Tony
Paint your new lower transmission bracket an aluminzed silver color to help it blend in to all the aluminum below.
For those who may wonder what's inside this area of our little cars:
I was cutting out the remainder of the factory trans support cross member, expecting to be greeted by a nice, flat panel all the way to the rear. Nope. Big opening where the cross member attaches.
I was surprised by how Porsche designed this junction. There's actually a couple other sheet metal parts involved in this area but I was pretty focused on removing it all so forgot to get pics. I'll snap some when I remove the other side.
Interesting engineering. I'm going to leverage some of the design and add some internal structure where my new cross bar attaches to the chassis. Thank you, Porsche!
Attached thumbnail(s)
What's going on here?
Removing the factory cross member really opens up the rear of the engine compartment. So much so that I've opted to rethink the exhaust system.
I've come up with a couple new designs. This first one is sorta what you see here:
The pipes will come together, Siamese straight back about 3-5 inches, then split back to two at 90 degrees and drop down on either side of the trans, enter transversely mounted mufflers then 90 again to go out the back, almost at each corner.
The other design is too hard for me to explain so if I mock it up, you'll get pics.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So two words to trigger you into a tangent of research, thought and design around a topic:
Blown. Diffusor.
- Tony
Hmm, does design 1 add more heat to the trans than necessary?
I mentioned there's another structural part under the factory trans mount cross brace. And here it is, just before I hacked it out, along with all that other corner sheet metal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So to help add structure back into this area and more securely support the new transmission cross bar, I opened the chassis forward to the edge of the spreader plate the cross bar welds to. Then I made a simple 90 degree piece of 12ga and plug welded it to the inner part of the chassis. The 90 degree area will get seam welded to the chassis all along that edge, which will also fuse it to the end of that cross bar spreader plate.
Once that's done, I'll fab another plate and weld it over the current opening in the chassis.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Note that I primered the inside of the chassis, then weld-through primered the back side of the 90 degree plate. Before I close this up with the final plate, I'll also seam weld along the rear edge of this inner plate.
I opted to get some primer on it ahead of those next step, taping off the areas where welding will happen.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks pretty cool.. sounds good too:
https://www.dukeengineeringsolutions.com/product-page/180-headers-for-ls-based-engines-porsche-996-and-997orders-are-shipping-now
Next is to fab the plates to close up the openings. Same routine as usual: cardboard template transferred to steel, cut and trimmed to the pattern.
Then fit it to the car and tune the edges until it fits "everywhere". Wait... there's a bend needed. And the bend is a specific radius.
1. Hold the flat panel against the chassis with it correctly positioned at the front
2. Carefully rotate the panel around the bend until the rear section makes contact - and verify it's perfectly aligned and the lower edge lands exactly on the ledge in the chassis
3. Repeat step 2 about 35 times trimming and grinding as needed, all the while convincing yourself the edge tuning you're doing really is what's needed to get the right fit...!
4. Position the panel at the front and mark where the bend needs to begin - one mark at the top of the panel, one mark at the bottom.
5. Rotate the panel around that bend in the chassis until it's flat at the back and mark where the bend ends, same way as the front.
6. Draw some lines to indicate where the bend needs to live
7. Find a suitable surface to use as a die and use a rubber mallet to create the radius bend.
Simple, no?
Attached image(s)
Bend a little and test fit the bent panel knowing it's under bent. Easier/better to sneak up on the correct amount of bend vs. having to un-bend. Ask me how I know...
Note that the clamps are only holding the panel in place for tack welding. They aren't forcing the panel into place. That would be cheating.
The general rule I use is that by using only one finger and light pressure, the panel will sit where I want it. Ideally, it fits perfectly with no pressure at all, but I try not to let "perfect" get in the way of "really good". This fit "really good". OK, English majors... It fit really well.
Now all I have to do is make the other one, just the mirror image. Eesh...
Attached image(s)
Both closing panels are done and tacked in. Also, as is pretty obvious, it was time to add the X-brace for the transmission mount. Here, the uninterrupted bar is fitted and tacked in and the primary section of the other bar is in process.
Attached thumbnail(s)
New exhaust underway. I want to get my car back on the road so I'm going after a "quick and dirty" exhaust, just for now. I'll reuse the components I already have and noodle up something neato for a future version. Until then...
I'm going back to the V1 muffler, which is a 2 in/2 out with an internal X pipe. But this time, both exhausts will enter from the same side, which is how the muffler is designed to be used. V1 had the tubes enter opposite sides, crossing over and exiting with one exhaust tip on each side of the muffler. This time it'll look like what's pictured.
Note the right side tube is just a mock up so I'd have some idea of the overall look.
Maybe it's because it's new and different, which appeals to my "Ohhh! Shiny object" disorder, but I like it!
And yes, I'm using the trailer as an extension of the Red Barn. RacerBenz is currently unable to roll so I gotta do what I gotta do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Your car rocks dude. A gearheads dream. Pat yourself on the back, this really is some next level work. The acceleration must be therapeutic...
That twin exit on the same side is bad ass! Love it!!
I absolutely LOVE the asymmetric tips location!
So tasteful. I hope it stays something like this.
That trunk is looking Tidy!! Love it!
..and possibly an added element to evoke that racing Porsche theme - dual cookie cutter tips? Something along the lines of:
..but not with the backing plate, obvi; just showing this as a visual aid. Food for thought,
- Tony
For those interested, here's how the exhaust tips look from the other side.
The ol' "out and around and down and out"!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Trans mount X-brace all fitted and tacked in place. On to the exhaust.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I’m definitely jealous of the accessibility you have to the back half of the car. Looks like you can literally stand back there while working on it.
Well, that didn't take long... Sorry @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert, looks like that muffler set up isn't going to make the (current) cut! In looking at how I'd need to route the exhaust tubing to make that work, I just wasn't feeling it. Yes, I loved how it looked from the outside, but not so much from inside the engine bay.
So, I'm working up what I think I like more: that original "join and run down the center" look. Here's a super rough mock up of one side, just to see if I like this design. This tube will be mirrored on the other side.
And to beat you jokesters to it: Yes, the muffler is laying on the ground and will actually be attached to the end of that last bend. Oh, and I'll weld it up vs using the Gorilla tape you see here.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Lots of extra piping...but you've got the power to move it!
What are you going to use from the back bar to rear bumper. I got touched there and it started a small crack on my rear fenders.
Psych! Back to the first version of the 3rd rendition of the exhaust. Wait... what?
After playing around with various ideas, I realized @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 were right - the asymmetric dual exhaust looks pretty neat. Plus, the muffler bracket was already completed and proven to work.
So, let's connect those same ol' headers to that same ol' muffler!
Fortunately, I was able to reuse a bunch of the tubing from earlier versions of the exhaust and needed only one length of new tube. Sorry for not too many in process pics. I got focused on the work and forgot the camera part...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Getting everything to line up, in plane and correctly clocked is tedious and challenging. The previous pic shows the lower section of tube (where it enters the muffler) being test fit and this pic shows the upper end section (where it starts heading rearward) in test fit. Then it's work out which tube(s) and where on them to trim so it all comes together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Final test fit before the final tack that locks things in place.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Clamping a plate to both sides helps ensure the tubes are in plane.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Add a bunch of tacks to be as sure as possible that nothing is going to move, pull it all out, bench weld all seams and...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Still need to add the final "exhaust pipe-to-muffler" attachment system (2 tension springs per tube) but it's essentially done. And believe it or not, the overall lengths are within about 5" of each other.
Surprisingly, I like the asymmetric vibe of the whole thing. I wasn't sure I would.
In any case, this means that once the engine harness is done, I'll be back on the road!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Those pipes look fantastic. Cant imagine the thinking and time consumed on routing. Can’t wait to hear it rumble. Nice one Chris.
WOW, WOW, WOW! You make it look so easy and badass!
Today was adding the spring tabs and locator ring that helps seal where the tube enters the muffler. This was a ton of fun because on this one tube, the ring ends up right at the end of a bend. Which means the ring itself needs to be part of a bend, but a slightly different diameter. I don't even know how to explain how I was able to make it fit.
Suffice it to say, it was more complicated than I expected. But I'm happy with how it turned out. My TIG welding continues to improve and I'm finally feeling reasonably confident that (in most cases!) l can get a nice result.
With this updated exhaust fab work complete, the next step is sending it, along with the headers, off for ceramic coating. Oh, but which color will I do?
Attached thumbnail(s)
ITB's all the way...all day long.
Looks great Chris! I’ll trade you a bottle of wine for a ride next time I’m in Napa.
Chris: Keep in mind; from a performance viewpoint, equal length bank to bank is the goal. Moving past aesthetics, it does not make sense if efficiency is part of your end goal. I realize how much work this all is but I believe you do care about logic as well. It is even more critical since you have chosen to merge both banks into a common muffler. JMO
Regarding the induction: The LS MAF likes a straight shot of clean unfettered air - 18" if possible - after the filter. I realize that is likely not the final rendition considering your induction swaps in-project - then again, when will this not be in-project!
You can NEVER have too much power but agree that will likely "tone it down"...regarding the MAF - not as precise as a MAF - we tried on that motor originally but it was best to go back to a MAF. Looking forward to seeing how it runs...!
Cracker
"It may actually tone it down from Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
to Holy Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
but I doubt it"
The headers and exhaust tubes are off being ceramic coated and should be back next week. In the meantime, I'm working on a couple ideas for the intake. Here's the first one:
To start, what are the odds I'd find a discontinued Y-tube with angles that essentially match the arbitrarily set angles of the X-brace?!?!? I tell ya, the universe WANTS me to make this intake!
Anyway, the design would be something like the pic that @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony sketched for me a while back. The main difference is I'd transition from the 4" round to 2" tall oval tubes to get over the cross bar while staying under the trunk and engine lid.
It also may be that the 4" tubes are visually a bit "big". The pics make it look worse that it really is. So I may I slice them up and transition to 3" in that straight section. That's still plenty of air for the engine. I need to play with it and see what I like.
As always, the fun continues!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
That drawing brought on flashbacks from the movie The Wall
Looking cool
The rear "between the tail lights" panel was messed up in multiple ways: poorly repaired accident damage AND holes from a 911 reflector install. I have a really clean entire tail section I was planning to use as a replacement so I figured it couldn't hurt to see what I could come up in the eVENT I opted to do something not stock.
A bit of body sawing and I have openings.
After making a few different versions (big surprise, eh?), I've narrowed it to these two. I'm leaning hard toward the angle-y one.
Yes, the panel will have some sort of grill in the openings and any visible inner structure will be painted black.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And you may have noticed the intake tube and the air cleaner in the left rear corner of the trunk. I'm working on multiple versions of the air cleaner set up. This one you see here - but with an air box around the air cleaner that...
... is open to a vent in the trunk lid!
Notice that while I have completed the intake tube and made the vent, I haven't yet cut the trunk lid. I'm still not quite sure if I like this design. Another option would be to have the air box connect to the openings in that rear tail light panel.
So.
Many.
Options.
I love working on my build...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Artsy pic that sorta shows how the hood vents are echoed in the trunk vents...
I feel compelled to say that the vents don't really "come to life" until the vanes are bent into position and they're mounted down into position.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice welding
Maybe some cool intake snorkels?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Hi Chris, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241
I like the taillight panel venting and think that would be a very cool place for the intake. I like the design with the slanted openings- did you consider trying to match the sail panel angles for the openings? Just spitballing while looking at it. Not sure about the trunk lid vents- For me, with the front vents, which I love, the rear lid goes to far.
Looking Good Chris!
Food for thought: Instead of levered vents
What about a "Torpedo Outlet"?!?
Could be a design play from the shape of the front fender... much like this first submarine pic
could have a vent "Butterfly" like this second sub pic
By "Torpedo Outlet" I mean like what you see on a submarine only facing backwards
Even crazier... tie the torpedo vent to the gas pedal so that it opens upon acceleration.
Like the butterfly on a blower...
Early morning design impressions with my second cup of coffee!
Cheers,
Cass
Chris
Now that you have opened up your forum to idjits like myself, with more creativity than sense, I have two suggestions. First, for the intake. Use the rear of the trunk, where you already have two options, and run the intake to an air filter that is attached to your rear valence work. From the back of the car, the only part of the intake that is visible would be black mesh covering the filter.
Second, obviously you are very anxious to cut on the trunk lid. What about modifying the trunk lid to act as a downforce spoiler? NO…..not the whole trunk lid, although that would look awesome, but just the rear part of the trunk lid. You probably have the electronics to tell a spoiler to open at a specific speed.
I always thought Armando did a nice job on integrating this transmission cooler in the back-panel - food for thought:
https://pbase.com/9146gt/the9146gt_901_916_gearbox_917_oil_cooler_design_and_fabrication
You may need to call your 914 the VENTura model.
Back to the wiring since I figured I should focus on things that'll get the car back on the road...
Out with the old, in with the new: First thing is to mount the new components. The ECU Master power management unit (PMU) you see here replaces:
- the Arduino "magic box"
- 8 relays needed by the Arduino
- the wireless turn signal management unit
- all but a few of the fuses and relays
I also upgraded the Raptor wireless unit to the smaller "GP" version in the pic.
The ECU aside, what's pictured are the only other electronic components needed to operate the car. Much tidier, if I do say so.
Next up: wiring!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I swear I'm working on the wiring! But a main component arrived for the other intake design I'm planning. Aluminum CNC 2 x 3" to 4" merge. This attaches to the throttle body and will then have symmetric intake tubes running to a matched set of air boxes/cleaners - one on each side of the engine.
Attached image(s)
Ready for the intake tube routing!
Attached image(s)
Not even I can keep up with what's going on with this build!
Headers and exhaust are back from ceramic coating. This color is "titanium' - at least at the place I used. It's a bit less gold than the Ceracote I had on the exhaust before and being a bit more subtle, I prefer it.
And I think I'm going to pull cold air through the rear panel vs. venting the trunk lid. At least for now, anyway. On to building an appropriate air box.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking amazing! I agree with your thoughts on not putting vents in the deck lid.
Hmm. Well at least you're in good company...
This was the first iteration - much improved later on (second pic) but this gives you an idea. Yours will be infinitely better, I know, but I was building this purely for performance.
For those that might think I am a bit hard on Chris - we are ok; he has thick skin.
Cracker
Isn't the air space immediately behind the car turbulent and/or low pressure?
I won't post on Chris's build thread anymore on this but the answer is yes, you are correct. These two men, from Porsche Motorsport were in North America for meetings and at Barber Motorsports Park while I was running. They came up and asked if they could look the Teener over and take pictures - I obliged and we ended up having a good long conversation about the 914 platform. One thing that puzzled them was the intake design (appropriately included in the picture below) - they marveled at how fast the car accelerated - it didn't make sense to them. Many other knowledgeable "racers" have questioned my intake design - bottom line - it works - period. To make matters even more confusing for folks - my oil cooler intake was captured from the roof and onto the intake - people thought my intake was exhaust and oil cooler was an intake. Fun.
I look forward to seeing what Chris comes up with - at least the first 10 or so variations... Enough of my old build - Chris, get this car finished!!!
Cracker
More input from Tony @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11316 - and I don't know why I didn't even try it earlier: Run everything to the right side. He suggested building the air box inside the fender, behind the rear wheel so the intake tube would "end" inside the trunk.
I'm noodling on that part but I think the "go right" design is a keeper.
I'll likely cut/reweld the intake tube to get it to exactly match the angles of the exhaust.
And no, this will never end!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And to complicate matters, I just watched a PAIR (not a set, a PAIR!) of 16 x 8 Fuchs sell for $4100 on Bring a Trailer. I thought that was insane so went to the Fuchs site to see what brand new ones cost. $948.72 each.
What am I not understanding? I guess maybe date codes are everything so some folks.
Anyway, the REAL problem is I see this banner on the site. I think I need a set just like this in 8s and 9s!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I'll bite Chris...those wheels would look absolutely killer with a blue car (someday; year; or decade)!
Cracker
You gotta take cracker a little at a time. It's like a low carb diet.
Not accurate, Rand...you take "cracker" with good cheese and wine and enjoy the moment(s).
The cheese is boost.
I don't whine.
I will enjoy the moment.
Given all the "non-914" stuff I'm up to with this build, I'm sure some of you think I'm a bit twisted. Well so is this next version of the intake! Thanks, I'm here all week...
Just playing with the untrimmed tubing components and it's only on the one side but this shows the basic idea: get the tubes pointed forward and connected to twin air boxes, one on each side, just outboard of the heads. Note that rubber connector is just helping position things and those tubes will likely get welded - pending proof I can get the final part in/out of the car! But so far, it looks like it'll work.
Quite a ways to go still, clearly. Plus, this intake means I'll need to build a different exhaust that just runs down and back. But this set up gets me all sorts of room to build a removable trunk floor/sealed carrier box so if I really wanted, I could transport a long weekend's worth of luggage.
Attached thumbnail(s)
You wouldn't have these issues with ITB's.
He's heard this before...
Cracker
Sweet
More not even remotely 914 stuff!
The PMU (power management unit) and wireless receiver harnesses are ready to go in the car.
I opted to go with the PMU vendor's flying lead harness so most of that wiring will be trimmed away as it's only about 4' from the PMU to the connection point for all but a few of them.
Attached thumbnail(s)
... and the exhaust is off...
And so it begins... again.
I will say, I'm getting pretty comfortable with all things wiring. Still lots to learn but I'm at the point where I really enjoy doing this sort of work. It appeals to my sense of order - at least trying to get it in some sort of order!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I see the most important tool of the day besides wire strippers...
The "Red Taped Chest Rest"
A few of you asked that I post details about the wiring work. OK, here's some fun stuff:
I want to add reliability to everything - and in the case of wiring, that means sealing every connection that I can. Today was my first go at potting a factory sensor.
This is the transmission reverse light sensor from the Boxster 6-speed. Normally, it has a rather standard plug-in connector. I opted to make it a fully sealed sensor with a short pig tail that terminates with a Deutsch DT series connector.
First, tin a couple suitable wires - these are 20 AWG conductors. Color doesn't matter as they'll be fully sheathed in Raychem DR25 heat shrink. Plus, this sensor is just an "on/off" switch so it doesn't matter which terminal gets power. When that sort of thing matters, I'll be paying attention and testing each connection before pinning the connector...
Anyway. Next, tin the terminals in the sensor then solder the tinned end of the wires to a terminal. Note I'd folded the stripped wire back on itself before soldering so a bit of the insulated portion of the wire is already down in the body of the sensor. Even still, once the wires are soldered, you push a bit more of the wire into the sensor body to provide a bit more strain relief.
Here's that work all done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next, I slipped the heat shrink over the wires and set up a support contraption to keep the wire oriented as the potting epoxy cures.
This little portable, rubber jawed vice is just the ticket!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then, it's potting time! I'm using a 3M product as it's readily available and I've had such good experiences with their other products.
That first pic: I found it's easier to pump the potting epoxy (gently!) into the syringe vs dispensing it onto a surface and using the syringe to suck it up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Use the syringe and work around in all the cavities to carefully fill the sensor body with epoxy. Take your time and be sure to avoid creating any air pockets.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Once the sensor body is filled, gently slide the heat shrink down into the epoxy.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Be sure everything is aligned and secure!
Once the potting compound is cured, I'll fully shrink the heat shrink then add a heat shrink boot that goes over the plastic part of the sensor and seals to it and the heat shrink you see here. That makes for one seriously reliable sensor!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I plan to do the same thing with my tail light housings. Remember, I have no trunk floor and those tail light wires are exposed to whatever the tires may toss up at them.
Done! Fully booted at the sensor and ready to go back in. On to the rest of the rear lighting harness.
Not that I'm fast at anything but making the mods to this sensor was probably a couple hours. And I'm using the "inexpensive" Deutsch DT series connectors. The two pin connector kit I used here is about $7. A 6-pin DT is about $15. A 5-pin Deutsch AutoSport connector kit is ~$140. Yes, like 10x the cost.
So when you hear that costs for a full-on motorsports harnesses can get well past $20K, you'll know why!
Attached image(s)
Chris
About a year and a half ago, you recommended Deutsch connectors to me. And then I rewired a lot of my 914 using Deutsch connectors. Initially I was concerned about their durability but after many connects and disconnects, they have held up very well. Thanks for the tip.
I know...
I do recall a conversation regarding wiring in which you said, "I don't want motorsports level wiring in the car..." Just say'n...
Cracker
Well that’s a far better method than my hot glue gun option!
Very nice work as usual Chris!
Back to chassis harness wiring. I'm replacing all the screw terminal blocks with Deutsch connectors. Here's the stock 914 ignition switch connector sheathed in DR25, sealed at the connector with a short section of adhesive lined heat shrink. This is a product called Raychem ATUM, for those who might be interested.
This particular connector is a DTP series - the P standing for "power". These have far larger terminals that can each handle 25 amps.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Ignition harness done, tested and installed.
Note that all my large current loads are managed via the PMU so none of the "big stuff" (starter, alt, fuel pump, fans, lights, blower, wipers) pass through these wires.
Yep, over built for what it'll have to handle but I prefer under-stressed electrical systems!
Attached thumbnail(s)
The behind the dash layout is essentially complete. Part of the planning was to be sure that every section of the harness can be unplugged and pulled through anywhere it passes through the chassis - all without any drama.
The zip ties locate each branch point so once things are final, I can pull it all out, sheath and seal the entire thing and reinstall it. Nearly there with the front-of-chassis harnesses!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nicely done--and smart strategy. My OCD approves!
Very nice! Love the brackets!
Love the wiring - nice demonstration of how to use connectors that are more appropriate than 1950's technology
A way-too-much-detail post about wiring:
I'm documenting to this level so that when I sell the car (which I will, at some point) there will be a ridiculous amount of supporting info about how and what I did re: the wiring - all of which will be completely sealed in sheathing and essentially unable to be "inspected"...
These are my first practice samples of open barrel crimps. The goal is no soldered joints anywhere in the car. Soldering turns stranded wire into solid wire and increases the chances of a vibration or stress-related failure.
While there are lots of examples of soldered joints not failing, I'm opting for open barrel crimps.
These first two are practice samples to be sure the crimp size works with the wires being spliced. Having the correct crimping tool make the crimp process simple.
The gray example is 16 ga, the green is 18 ga. If you think these wires look smaller than what you'd expect for those gauges, you'd be right. Read on, if you dare!
WARNING: FULL GEEK ALERT:
This is M22759/32 Tefzel wire. It's a lightweight, high temperature wire insulated with a single layer of cross-linked, modified ethylene-tetrafluoroethylene (ETFE) insulation. The insulation provides superior cut-\rough and abrasion resistance and where where high temperatures, smoke emissions, and flammability are a concern. It has a maximum temperature of +150°C and a voltage rating of 600V.
Attached thumbnail(s)
As I just mentioned, having the right crimp tool really helps. But doing these crimps in the car while ensuring the wires are correctly positioned in the crimp? Less easy! But I got them done.
The gray wire is the parking lights. The main feed from the PMU splits with one to the front park lights and one to the rears.
The green is right turn signal. Here, I have the main feed from the PMU, one to the front signal and one to the rear one to the rear. That 4th? It feeds the indicator light in the dash. And yes, I almost forgot that one. I had the other three in the crimp and I was just about to squeeze. Thankfully, I caught myself.
This pic is also a good example of the adhesive heat shrink, post recovery. This is Raychem SCL which as well as being a sealing heat shrink (you can see the sealant oozing out of each end) is rigid, meaning you're looking at two sealed AND strain relieved splices.
And to keep the harness as small as possible, it's best practice to do all you can to stagger spices. I have one more to go in this general area (the left signal) and so far, so good.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Crimp vs solder, good choice. Factory wiring harnesses crimp everything for that main reason, learned this when I took apart a couple Audi harnesses. Love the results here!
Nice wiring
Back in the day we had tech manuals that specified part numbers, tool number, and in some cases, info on crimp tool settings. Not terribly hard to figure out, but, avoided trial and error set up, especially when under pressure when equipment was down.
Have some spare pins on hand & then have some fun!
Left turn signal circuit splice crimped then sealed with SCL.
Attached image(s)
If there's anything more boring than pictures about wiring, it just may be a video about it. You can't get this ~3 minutes back so...Don't say you weren't warned!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDhEbbw7qhI
I only need five 12v battery hot connections so I used a 6-pin Deutsch DT connector.
Here are the back and front with the needed harness sheathed in DR25, the connector end sealed with SCL and the connector mounted to a clip on the fuse block mount.
Pretty tidy, IMO. And yes, as always, overkill for a street car. But there you go.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And temporarily mocked up in the car.
I'll be adding another similar harness to this to support the needed ignition hot circuits.
Getting there!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Man....this wiring is the bomb! I really need to get my butt up to Petaluma to see Chris. I want to talk to him about a really small wiring project.....
For fellow Wordle fans, I'm no spoiler so I waited a day, but yesterday's word was about as timely as they come!
Attached image(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 have you touched racerbenz lately?
Well, it's done. My fire wall has a hole in it. Measured a lot, used a 1.5" RotaBroach hole cutter. Great tool. Highly recommended for cutting holes in sheet.
That said, the bulkhead connector needs a hole that's just over 1.5" and has a flat spot at the top that helps prevent the connector from spinning in the hole - the connector has a flat spot, too.
Anyway, I cut the 1.5" hole, used a file to create the needed flat spot then carefully opened up the hole with a barrel sander attachment on a pneumatic right angle grinder.
Open the hole but keep it flat at the top...
It worked! I aged 3 years doing it, but it worked.
Here's the hole and the connector in place, along with a brand new ECU harness that I chopped to rough length. This had better work!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Before I can sheath the various sections of wiring, I first need to have all the wires run to/from the appropriate locations. This means EVERYTHING has to be in place. One of the things I've been putting off is the seat heater wiring.
It's fun because I have to work out a way to disconnect the wiring from the seats in order to install/remove and make sure nothing gets pinched doing that - or simply adjusting them when they're in the car. Then there're the heater switches.
I ordered the seats with remote heater switches and wanted them to go in the removable console cover. After noodling on it for what seemed like hours, I realized they'd fit in the cup holder. This works out great because to remove the console cover, I just lift out the cup holder, unplug the lead to each switch and out comes the console.
I need to figure out a way to see these simple solutions sooner in my design process. And if anyone asks, that's a cup holder from the back seat of a 2004 Ram pickup. I have one and in looking at the cup holder, I thought, "that looks like it'd work in the 914 console..." It did!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Hey Chris- Love the seat heater switches in the cup holder. Very clean.
Tool Whore ALERT:
These are Ideal StripMaster "Standard" strippers. Yes, I cheaped out and went with their least expensive model (still a bit pricey). Don't pick on me, they work really well.
They also support the adjustable stop you see on the right side. This is a must have when it comes to the Mil-Spec and AutoSport connectors as the terminals require a very precise strip length.
A couple test strips to get it set correctly and from then on, it's like a production line!
I'll say it again: Having the right tool(s) makes all the difference.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Some sensors must use shielded cable to protect the signal from any interference. I have shielded cable for the cam, crank and O2 sensors and the DBW throttle body. When using a bulkhead connector, the shield itself must be terminated to an appropriate wire and contact at the connector. Then on the other side, the reverse needs to happen: wire back to shield.
The short bit of unshielded wire this creates doesn't introduce a significant risk of corrupting the signal, particularly in my case, where the connector isn't close to anything that generates electrical noise.
Anyway, the technique for this is to crimp the shield to a wire that points "backwards", then flip things around, trim off the excess shield and seal the crimp joint with a length of SCL.
I took a few tries to get that tiny, tiny open barrel crimp into the tool and both bits of conductor into it... old eyes aren't the best for this sort of work! One side of one cable done, the rest to go.
Attached image(s)
I'm waiting on a few parts before I can finish the PMU/interior wiring harness routing so decided I'd try my hand at sheathing a section of harness that was ready for that step. In this case, it's the forward section of the chassis harness that runs the headlights, fog lights, running lights, signals and horn.
First, get the wires nice and tidily organized. There's a product called Kapton tape that works wonders. It's very thin yet incredibly strong and leaves no residue when/if you need to remove it. You can see some there in various places on the exposed wires.
Once organized, measure the harness for diameter and use the closest sized DR-25 heat shrink. In this case, things measured out to use 3/8".
Get the DR-25 over the wires. This is eased greatly by using isopropyl alcohol. I had none.
It took a bit but I got it done.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it's sheath any separate branches that are ready, as well as the branch point itself.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Route the covered harness through the chassis, terminate/pin the wires and complete that side of each connector. It's best practice to add a cable tie at any branch point as a final bit of strain relief insurance.
Final point, in case you noticed: You can see I stopped the DR-25 just behind the radiator. That's because there is a branch point where the harness splits for the right/left side of the car's circuits. I'll feed the sheathing up each side's wiring to meet where I ended it today.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Awesome stuff! The seat heaters are just perfect.
I’m real curious how those strippers function, does it slice the wire lengthways like it looks or is it something else?
Nice job with the sheathing. So many folks try to create strain relief out of the stuff and then it does exactly the opposite by actually stressing the transition into the connector.
Well done!
Ahead of pinning the bulkhead connector, I configured/verified and tested all the connections from the ECU plugs to the wire ends. This was also a chance to start preparing some of the formal ECU-to-bulkhead-connector wiring documentation.
I figured this will help ease any concerns the next owner may have about what's what, harness-wise.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The Holley engine harness is wrapped with the split nylon covering but has nothing going on right at the connectors. These are the two main plugs for the ECU and you can see it's just wire into the connector. Not bad... but certainly not good enough!
Attached thumbnail(s)
So I sourced what's called a "backshell" that fits quite snugly over the back of each connector and provides a lip for heat shrink boots. These connectors are now all but sealed and the wires are fully strain relieved and far more protected.
Way mo' betta.
Attached thumbnail(s)
What's taking me far longer than I'd expected is working out the routing for each section of harness. In the end, I opted to poke a hole in the corner of the console cover and route all the "front of car" ECU-related circuits down and out the side of the tunnel.
The two white connectors you see there power the seat heater. I still have a few more wires to run and then it's on to sheathing/pinning/testing/booting the ECU-to-bulkhead connector.
Completing that will be a major milestone. Gotta admit, I'm a little nervous.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Ahead of pinning the bulkhead connector, I decided to review a specific HP Academy training module about the process. Glad I did because they called out a situation I was going to face: multiple shield-to-insulated wire splices at the bulkhead connector. I'll have four of them. One each for the DBW throttle body, O2 sensor, cam and crank sensors.
This can be problematic in that things get pretty crowded in that area so (as they say!) size matters!
There's a product that helps in a case like this: a solder sleeve. It's just what it sounds like: a bit of heat shrink with a low-melt solder built in! Simply prep the wire ends, slip them in and use the heat gun to heat shrink and melt the solder. It's nice because the red color around the solder dissipates to show it's been appropriately melted.
So OK, I lied. Turns out there will be a bit of solder in the harness. The good news is that this is "approved" at the motorsport level because the product is well proven and with the Kapton tape AND sealed boot, the chances of a failure are almost zero. Well past what I need for my application, in any case.
For your viewing pleasure, here's a solder sleeve "before and after:
Attached thumbnail(s)
I decided to start with pinning the DBW cable. It's seven conductors plus the shield.
It was also the first time using the DMC crimp tool. I'll get a video of that later but it works a treat!
But for now, here's my first foray into the world of mil-spec. So far, so good.
Attached thumbnail(s)
But then things got a bit messier.
I'm getting better with every "strip, wire into terminal, crimp, test, insert into connector" and it's satisfying if not tedious work. Here, I got the all the crank sensor connections pinned. Only about 45 more wires to go!
And if you're anywhere near the age of most of us typical 914 owners, keep a magnifying glass handy! Everything about this is TINY, from the pinout labeling on the connectors to the terminals, to the 20 and 22 ga wires...
Attached thumbnail(s)
At my age, as soon as I start working with small bits, I put one of these on.
https://www.amazon.com/Donegan-OptiVisor-Headband-Magnifier-Magnification/dp/B0015IN8J6/ref=asc_df_B0015IN8J6/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241958687412&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5109883209225367160&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029145&hvtargid=pla-353619776071&th=1
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23343 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 Bob & Chris- I had to laugh at Bob's posted link....I thought I was really old because I bought a similar pair of those "cheater" headband lenses a while ago with LED lights on them. I guess when you get to a certain age......
One side of the connector complete! I learned a lot and thankfully, got pretty efficient at the process by the time I was done with what you see here. It still took me the better part of today to get to this point.
I made a couple mistakes and had a few do-overs but overall, I'm happy with this first effort. I'll get better from here!
Next is a full pin-to-pin test and documentation validation for this section of the harness. Assuming all is well, it's time to recover the sheathing (that's the official term for heat shrinking the heat shrink!), recover the 90 degree boot and seal this thing up!
And yes, I could have just used a grommet and passed the uncut harness through that hole in the fire wall. But what fun would that have been?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Awesome!
Learning keeps us Young
All needed connections complete and tested. No issues with any of the connections!
Next, I worked out the angle I wanted the wires to exit the connector and used Kapton tape to secure and support everything.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next was to recover the DR-25 sheathing and the 90 degree boot. I probably should have video'd the process but to be honest, this was my first time and I decided I'd just focus on the process. There will be other opportunities to capture this stuff so until then, here's what it looks like when it's done and installed. I have to say, it's crazy how tidy this makes things. It really looks the business!
Overall, I'm pretty happy with this first effort. I'll admit that this level of wiring and "finish work" had me a little intimidated when I started. Turns out that, like most other stuff, it's not too bad once you get a bit of experience.
So, if you're thinking of trying something new, I vote "go for it!"
Attached image(s)
A bit hard to see but with the seat all the way back, it's all good. No interfernce, just like I'd measured/planned!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Beautiful work Chris.
I am exhausted. I've learned that wiring requires absolutely 100% of my attention, at least given where I am on the learning curve. After nearly two back-to-back days of effort, I finished the ECU-to-bulkhead harness, including the DBW cable to the pedal.
Everything is tested, fully sheathed and booted. And I'm BEAT. Amazing how sitting in one place can be so tiring!
That said, I'm pretty happy with how it all turned out, especially since this was my first go at all of this.
I have a number of lessons learned and I'd do a couple things differently, were I to do it again. But in all, I'm calling it a success.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the best part? After all's said and done, this is what everyone will be able to see of all that work... And even the ECU is getting a cover so that'll be hidden, too.
But as with a lot of other areas on this build, it may not be obvious or visible, but I'll know it's there!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very tidy and professional Chris.
Great looking seat! If I was 30 years younger I would put them in my car.
That there is phenomenal work on that wiring harness. Talk about perseverance.
Well done. I may have missed it but did you “chart” it all out schematic wise to trouble shoot in the future? Like in a computer program or old fashioned written down?
I imagine some of the components your using have their own diagrams.
Just curious.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2766 - I'm not sure how far I'll take the documentation. For assembly and trouble-shooting this part of the harness, I really only need the pin map that I'm working up here. It's not yet complete but you get the idea.
I'll post details as I build the engine side of the harness. The cool thing about that is the harness branch to each sensor will be individually labelled so it's sorta "diagrammed in the real world". (Pic of the printed heat shrink for your enjoyment.)
I got some printable heat shrink sleeves for my label maker so I'll likely go overboard and do the same for each branch of the car's chassis harness, too. I mean, who wouldn't want to be absolutely sure that wire that looks like it goes to the horn, ACTUALLY goes to the horn?
No kill like overkill, eh?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Re: my comment about lessons learned:
This morning I got a helpful PM from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22428 cautioning me about the use of those solder sleeves. Phil, who has experience with stuff like this that's well beyond mine, pointed out what I had already experienced - that they require a deft touch when heating to ensure the solder flows out completely without overheating stuff near it. As I mentioned in my reply to him, while I think I got it right, and the testing was successful, I'm "fingers crossed" that I have a reliable connection.
In any case, after installing three of them, I went back to the open barrel crimps.
What if I have an issue? Well, you know me! I'll call it "practice" and do it over!
Big thanks to Phil for his input. Just another example of the great folks in this community.
Per discussion with Chris I'll repost my PM with him so that others are more fully aware of the downside to those heat shrink solder butt connectors:
I have a bunch of experience with those heat shrink solder connectors both in motorsports and DoD defense applications.
Bottom line, they are highly variable. If done EXACTLY right they work fine. What I've found is that they are only done right about 5% of the time (as used by DoD field service reps - i.e. former military maintenace guys). There is no good way to control the heat applied and/or to assure that the solder has properly tinned out and flowed INTO the the stranded wires rather than just forming a cold solder joint ring around the butt ends on the exterior of the stranding.
I then recommended that Chris mark the harness location of the solder connectors for easy future reference while he still remembers where they are.
I've had numerous experiences tearing apart wiring harnesses that had issues with intermittent grounds and grounded shields where those heat shrink solder connectors failed. Not fun. Even less fun if you don't know exactly where the splice was placed.
Overall beautiful harness work and Chris is stepping up the game for the rest of us. I was just reluctant to post here publicly as I didn't want to appear be tearing down the great work he's doing.
Time for the engine side of the bulkhead. This will be easier in that the wires will run straight out of the connector - no 90 degree bend - so the wires can all be cut to the same length. Plus, I can make any final length adjustments at the sensor end so this should turn out even nicer than the first side. Wish me luck!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And another nod to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22428 Phil. Open barrel crimps, baby! That's where it's at from here on...
Attached thumbnail(s)
All the open barrel crimps have been sealed with heat shrink. All the engine side wires are pinned and ready to be installed in the connector.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And again, if you don't find yourself bored enough by pictures and text about wiring, here's a video that'll surely put you to sleep! But hey, maybe some of you will find it interesting. If nothing else, it's a glimpse into how I've been spending my time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5SpTL-Vcaw
That is a super nice way to make connections. Very clean job and I am pretty darn sure you will not have connection issues with the care you are taking.
Thanks for the info Chris. Fascinating stuff. You have quite the arsenal of wiring tools now. Thanks for the vid too.
I would never have thought this kind of stuff would be available to the DIY .
Keep at it mate. Enjoying the teaching.
A couple minutes on what I'm learning to do in terms of assembling these motorsport-y connectors. It's quite a time suck, especially with all the double/triple/quadruple checking I'm doing to be sure I got things right. In spite of that, I still managed to make an error in one of the connector positions. The conductor was supposed to go in the (lower case) r position and I inserted it into the (upper case) R position...
But caught it in testing and, thankfully, it's easy enough to correct things like this.
Speaking of testing, you can see that I opted to install a few wires, "connect the connector" and test the complete circuit (from ECU pin, through the connector, to the end of the conductor), record that those circuits worked, then install the next few wires.
And relax, the video only shows me installing and testing a few wires, not all of them! Anyway, here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJIhX84i26w
Here's all the farther further I got today. I ended up dealing with splices for the 5V+, ground and shield conductors that are shared between the cam and crank sensors. Those are the two large-ish cables you see taped together here.
I should have this side of the connector done on Sunday. Then routing/cutting each sensor lead to length can begin.
With a bit of luck, I'll be looking to fire the engine and get back on the road in a week or so!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Major milestone: All engine-side wires are pinned!
Still a bunch of stuff to do but this part is done. The video provides a quick demo of the connector in action. Not rocket science but I think it's pretty cool. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKTtYNKAntM
Nice work Chris!
A very satisfying "click".
This wiring stuff is way far away from "useful 914 content" so thanks for tolerating this part of my build. Given the content I've posted lately, I think I have a future in consulting on how to drive viewers AWAY from their social media outlets! I know this may not be everyone's cup o' tea, but hopefully some find it interesting. Anyway, back to it:
Today was "Fun with DYMO!" I started labeling the harness, because overkill.
You can get printable heat shrink sleeve in various widths. I used 3/4" for the large, multi conductor cables - in this case, the one that runs to the throttle body. No, it's not like it's hard to figure out that this cable runs to that location. It's more the vibe of the build and it keeps with the "race rod" theme I happen to like. Plus, it's fun!
Note that I still have to source and install the clear heat shrink that gets installed over this to protect it.
Attached image(s)
A bit all over the place today but... I decided to connect up the CAN components so I could work on programming the PMU. I ended up on a call with ECU Master's tech support and they are GREAT! 10 minutes later, my minor issue was sorted and I'm all connected and ready to program. Programable circuits, no fuses or relays... such cool stuff!
Attached thumbnail(s)
What. You thought I was done posting crap you don't care about...?
Today, it's solid state relays! What could be better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nPiIfriof8
Super cool stuff as always.
I know electric motors create an electromagnetic field or EMF close to what a microwave puts out. Any concern about getting stuck between two tesla's on the freeway? When you're not driving it you can use it as an atom collider.
Wire you complaining about my posts?
Major milestone accomplished! The PMU is programmed and performing as hoped/expected! No more Arduino for me, thank you. Enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4JwCQ2De-0
Loving the progress!!
The solid state relays are mounted and wired. One powers the coils and injectors, the other is the H2O pump. The main power for the ECU direct connect to the battery also done.
I'm at the part of the process where "neatness counts" and I'm happy with how it's going, so far. I still have to sheath and secure things but the basic physical layout is looking pretty tidy, IMO.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Getting started on the engine harness. Moving from ITBs to the DBW throttle body means I needed to relocate the MAT sensor. In stock form, the LS3 runs a MAF sensor. The Holley ECU is speed density based so no MAF. Anyway, once I figured out where I wanted it, I drew up a quick bracket and cut it on the plasma table.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A couple bends later and it's in. I wanted it to be as stealth as possible so it mounts under the engine lid latch, like this.
When I pull everything out to paint the car, I'll likely redo the latch and just build this section into the design. But for now, I'm good with this add-on approach.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With the MAT and MAP sensor wires routed, I was able to start sheathing this section of the harness. As with the other harnesses, this is Raychem DR 25. You can see I only fully recovered a few inches around where these two sensors branch from the DBW cable, just to lock down that area. It should all look pretty tidy once it's complete.
Attached thumbnail(s)
See, even though this build gets into a ton of stuff that you don't care about, occasionally, I pull out something that makes it worth following what I'm up to!
From a 2004 360 Modena. 400 hp @ 8500. Yes, there's matching 6-speed transaxle, ECUs, wiring harnesses, etc., etc. Essentially everything needed to make it run. It's got only 5K miles on it.
I've been debating posting about it because it sorta fell into my lap and I may or may not do anything with it. For example, while initial measurements indicate the engine/trans package will fit a 914, length-wise, it's clear that factory intake set up won't fit - at least not without a ton of rework to my engine compartment. And I'm not willing to do that.
So, current options being noodled on include:
1. Fab a set of manifolds and run a "standard" 8-stack ITB set up and stuff it into my chassis
2. Find another chassis and build a different 914 around it. Though it'd likely still need intake mods.
3. Stuff it into RacerBenz! It fits with no mods. But best of all? I could name the car... wait for it... Benzo Ferrari! And come on, that would be so f-ing epic it's nearly impossible to resisit.
4. Do nothing. Which is probably the best option!
A friend of mine has a 360 street car and a 360 Challenge car. Plus, he's a MoTec dealer. I've been chatting with him about what's what so give me a bit to work out a few things and we'll see what happens. This isn't (yet) a front burner project but I'll update things as I make progress.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The sounds that would make at 8500................
Catching up on your last couple videos. Really slick stuff. "Water pump" and "914" not often used in the same sentence!
Have a donor 914 for that Ferrari engine if needed.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Wow! Nice score for sure. My vote is to build another 914 around that motor. I know someone still interested in buying your car once you get it mechanically finished. He wants to do the paint and body himself. He asks about it all the time....
Benzo Ferrari.
i vote for Benzo Ferrari
Coffee table?
With the routing worked out and each branch of the engine harness trimmed to length, it's time for sheathing. Any section before a branch point has to have it's own, separate length of sheathing plus another short length to recover over and secure the end of that section as well as a short section of the branches.
That lower, right section shows what it looks like when complete. The initial branch, just off the bulkhead connector shows what it looks like "assembled but not yet recovered".
Hard to see, but the short section is there, ready once everything else is done.
And it's OK. You can admit it: you're jealous and wishing you were rewiring your car, aren't you?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Amazing as usual...and I actually am rewiring my car. But I'm jealous...jealous YOU'RE not rewiring my car!
This is the first of the sensor branches to be completed and I couldn't resist a quick test fit to see how it's going to look. One thing to be more aware of next time is to do better at hiding the DR 25 labelling on the underside of the run. I tried but, just like Agent 86, I "missed it by THAT much!" Ah, well.
I'm a bit on the fence about the labeling. It's certainly looks the business and shouts "MotorSport", but it's not like I don't know what plugs in where!
Anyway, with a bit of focused effort, I should be ready to try and fire it in a few days. It'll be good to get this thing back on the road!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I don't know about your brand but the stuff I used could be wiped off, but I don't recall which chemical was required at the moment.
Too cool for school
Looks good to me. Seeing manufacturing labels or branding is fine. I don’t know, seems more purpose built is my interpretation. Hope to see it fired up soon.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19266 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1659 - The printed labels have clear heat shrink over them to prevent any damage.
I didn't think about trying to remove the DR 25 product labeling...
Detailed shot: labeled, clear heat shrink, sealed with SCL. Essentially my best work so far and it'll be completely hidden once installed. What else is new?
Attached thumbnail(s)
And... that's a wrap!
Well, OK, I still have to do the boot at the connector but I'm going to wait on that until after the car runs - just in case I need to get in there to correct anything. Hey, it was my first attempt at this level of wiring so no, I'm not 100% confident I won't have any problems. Yes, I tested everything. Still...
I realized I've made quite a few changes since I last drove it. Fingers crossed everything comes together and it's a non-event come start time!
- new fuel tank
- updated filler cap
- new fuel filter/pressure regulator
- updated fuel lines to support above
- swapped in the LS3 DBW intake manifold/throttle body
- new ECU
- new engine harness
- replaced the fuse/relay panel with PMU
- updated chassis electrical harness
- custom transmission mount/support structure
- updated exhaust design
- new air box (still TBD)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Dude, that is impressive work!
Love it!!! Are you planning on having it ready to drive to WCR?
Confidence is high; I have seen your work in person. I have no doubt your car will be in the procession headed north.
What's this? I added an NPT bung to the H2O collector in prep for swapping in a Davies/Craig water pump. It modulates the pumped volume based on temp from their supposedly proprietary sensor. This should address my "over cooling in cool weather" issue.
I still need the GM sensor to get coolant temp to the ECU which then sends it over the CAN bus to the dash.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A picture I've taken what seems like a thousand times. I just never get tired of this view!
I really like the way the ceramic coating on the exhaust turned out.
And this version of the engine harness is even more tidy than the last. Note I didn't yet update the injector harness as I really want to get it running again first. Then I'll construct a new one with the labeling, etc.
Anyway, everything is buttoned up and ready for a remote session with the tuner.
We're targeting this Thursday. I made a lot of changes and I'm looking forward to seeing how I did. Wish me luck!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Yummy
One little issue I see.
The air temp sender is usually located in the air box which is a controlled environment. Where you have it, it is likely to heat soak at lights and run lean or get wet, cool from evaporation, and run rich.
Results are in:
Short version IT RUNS!!!!
Longer version:
The remote tuning session was a huge success! It took about 3 minutes for my tuner to assume control of my laptop, download the updates into the ECU and setup/configure the specific sensors I'm running.
Then he says "OK, so is it ready to start?" I glace around the car and look at all the changes I've made since it last ran and I'm like:
"Sure!" I say, with all the bravado I can muster. And I turn the key one click to ignition hot. The fuel pump whirs to life, the H20 pump starts pumping- as does my heart! I think to myself "OK, here we go - I hope you got all this stuff right.." and I advance the key to "start".
Urrrr, urrr, urrr, VROOOM! It fires right up like it had been running 20 minutes ago. A total non event.
OK, so then we spent about 20 minutes adjusting the fuel map and a bunch of stuff I'd never seen before and the day closes with a 775 RPM idle and nice, snappy (DBW) throttle response!
I will say, I did take care with all the wiring and fab work in this round of changes but I'm always amazed when what I did actually works. And yes, EVERYTHING works!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 thanks for your votes of confidence - you proved to be spot on.
Next step?
See you all at WRC 2022!
Everything works! Not a bit surprised!! Must feel good to be back up and running!!!
Heck ya!!!!! Some more road tuning and you’ll be golden!!!
You’ve done a heck of a job Chris!!! Congratulations!
nice !!! Always to good to get things back running again after changing things out.
So - time for a at least 3 airbox design iterations before WCR 2022 ?
- Tony
And I can't leave my momentous "starting day" with no pic. My friend Bill stopped by and I couldn't resist snapping this pic. Zoom in and check out the paint on his Speedster. Unreal.
It was a lovely day at the Red Barn...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow man, awesome! Drive the hell out of it now! Did someone say air box?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - OK, now you get to take it for a nice ride and enjoy all that work. WCR is going to be a blast.
Congratulations Chris. When it's finished you'll experience the male version of "empty nest syndrome" and want to start another.
Fantastic Chris- looks like I came by a day too soon- had no doubt you’d getting going without major bugs. Incredible electrical work.
Boring pic? Not to me. We are back on the road!
Just a brief test run to capture some data in the ECU that the tuner uses to, well, tune.
The short update is classic good news/bad news.
Let's start with the bad:
- First, it isn't really that bad. The tune needs work - and we were expecting that. When we did the first tune session, I'd left a major vacuum port unplugged and because chasing that allowed the engine to warm up a but, it ended up masking settings needed at "totally dead cold" start up. As it stands, I have to blip the throttle a bit for 30 seconds or so else it struggles and mostly dies.
- Next, it's not smooth right off idle and the pedal isn't as responsive as I think I want it. When I try and blip in a heel/toe, the blip doesn't do much.
Now the good:
- The DBW pedal is a joy, particularly compared to the cable/ITB set up. It feel like I'm driving a new car.
- The pedal response is programmable so I've no doubt we can set it to feel and respond just how I want. Plus, these tuning sessions are training for me to be able to learn how to be self-sufficient - for example, I'll know how to program the pedal on my own going forward.
- The new exhaust sounds really nice. It's actually quiet at idle.
In short? We're getting there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That's one hell of a accomplishment Chris!!!
Now put some miles on it!!!
This morning's remote tuning session addressed the currently known issues. It had rained last night and was still cold/damp when we wrapped up. Dave, my tuner, asked if I was going to drive it. I figured with the crappy weather situation I'd pass. But in the end, I couldn't resist. Dave's guidance was keep it under about 4500 RPM - and I always do as I'm told...
OMG. I'd swear it pulls harder and is more "driveable" than the ITBs ever were. And the pedal is like butta! And the tune isn't even complete.
I'm very happy.
I plan a few more drives to gather more data and get additional seat time so I can provide more detailed and thorough feedback. More as we make progress.
Oh, and I added some LED interior lights in the foot wells that come on when the doors are opened. I swear, it's like a luxury car.
Congrats!
So just a few minor things on the punch list?
Nice! Sounds like all your improvements were worthwhile!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - WCR here we come!
Party at the Red Barn! Apparently, even the insects are interested in seeing the 914 and its new set up!
So yesterday, I'm working away on my car when I suddenly notice there's been a growing sort of "buzzing" noise. I turn around and there's a LARGE swarm of bees hanging out RIGHT outside my shop door! Yikes!
I immediately close everything up and thankfully, they didn't make it inside. However, they did decide the gutter area just above the side door would be an excellent spot to establish a new hive.
Zoom in on that first pic and you'll get an idea just how many visitors there are...!
A quick call to the local bee keeper society and John heads right over - in a very cool '54 Chevy pick up!
Anyway, he thought he'd enticed them into a bee box but when he came back last evening to collect them, the colony had decided they REALLY did like that gutter. He's back this morning with his bee vacuum and some other bee herding tools.
As Bullwinkle said "This time, for sure!" Fingers crossed!
Never a dull moment at the Red Barn...
Attached thumbnail(s)
That so cool!
Holy beeswax Batman!
It's nice to see so many bees but it would be better to see them from a a distance. Glad you did not get stung.
The bees are have been re-hived so it's back to the boring task of tuning. I had the 3rd remote session this morning, having put in a couple shakedown drives to gather more data.
I'm learning a lot by watching the tuner do his thing and make changes based on what I tell him. Interestingly, while there are certainly specific targets/ranges for things like air/fuel ratio and timing, a whole bunch of stuff is down to "how do you want it?"
For example, going full lean on decel means you'll get some popping out the exhaust. You don't like that? Add a bit more fuel and the popping goes away.
I told him when I come off the pedal, it felt like it should have more engine braking effect. He messed with idle decay and some of the timing parameters and now it does.
And you wonder why I'm so enamored with all the electrical bells and whistles... It's like magic!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert are coming by on Saturday and I've asked them to drive the car and see what they think. I'll leave it to them to report back on their experiences.
I'll end for now with: Man, this thing runs GOOD!
Driving video soon, I promise.
I don't know whose car this is but its 53 - 93mph, 4th gear roll-on performance seems decent. Sounds OK, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxGs3F_-Dcw
With the car back in action and running really well (!), it's time to make progress in some other areas. I picked up that cool air dam with the wide cooler opening and today was getting an idea of if I'll like the look of what I'd planned for the mirror image cut out in the front bumper. That glamour pic is my the photochop inspiration and others are the initial result on a junk front bumper.
The bumper opening will get a return all the way around the cut-out, just like the air dam has and the car's nose will be painted black so the area behind the opening will disappear.
I think I like it!
BTW. the air dam is just sitting on blocks/spacers so give me no crap for how things line up.
Anyone have a nice front bumper they don't need?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Great work Chris! I really enjoyed the electrical porn Can’t wait to see it all done, and go for a ride. Do you have a paint scheme picked out yet?
Cheers,
John
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Hey Chris, I like the opening; once you get it finished I think it is going to look very nice and more importantly, function well.
Looks like a clean and functional design.
What did the test pilots think about the car on Saturday? Still shaking in their shoes with ear to ear grins?
Bee herding. lol
That would look killer if you can keep it that small. Looking at a water pumper, the front opening for cooling has always been hard to get past for my eyes. This would look tough.
I'm so unaware of the world outside the Red Barn that I didn't even know there was a Petaluma Cars & Coffee on the 3rd Sunday every month. Bill, my buddy with the Speedster, called this morning saying "...hope to see you there...". So I decided to head down.
You know it's a "traditional hot rod/muscle car" crowd when they walk right past a near perfect Speedster without even looking at it! I'm sure they thought it was a kit car. Maybe not surprisingly, my car got a ton of attention, what with the LS and all, zip tied license plate not withstanding.
It was a bit chilly this morning and I can happily report the GTS Classics' seat heaters are awesome!
Attached thumbnail(s)
A car like yours, as a kid, I'd look and wonder how they managed to get 20 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag...And make it look good. Bet it was great to just get out
Tool Whore Alert! A got a slip roller from a buddy who needed it moved. For those who may not have heard of this tool, it's essentially a roll bender for sheet material. Same concept of three rollers, one of which is set to apply pressure to material as it passes across the other two. More pressure = more shape into the material. Plus, you can adjust the pressure differently, side to side, and get very cool / interesting effect, cones, etc.
Anyway, today I wanted to make progress on the openings in the tail panel so I cut a shape that I think compliments the look of the car and hides the center latch and support area. Once cut, I gave it the slip - roll, that is.
This is one of those "get a feel for it" things: set it "loose" and see how much the panel moves, check fit, adjust, roll again, check fit. You know the drill. It turned out nicely.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I cut up a crappy engine lid grill and fed it through the slip roll. It works on perforated material just fine, too.
Here's pic of the empty panel - to give you a feel for the overall look - and one where I'm just holding things in place to show the effect of the grill.
I love the way you can still peek in there and see all the mechanicals - and that it matches the engine grill.
Still some trimming to do but you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Love the OE 914 engine grille mesh; re-purposed on those rear vents are the bees knees Chris !
Looks like this (very similar) mesh is what floats the boat for Porsche's late 911R too...what's old is new
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Look what I just found - similar design to your rear panel (which I like).
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Of course we all knew you would take it to another level. I think that is going to look great.
You know you're getting down to the details when it's about interior courtesy lighting!
I went with some simple LEDs that I suspect are used in campers. Just to get things working, I used some small magnets and stuck one of these on the roof of the footwell, both sides. They have a switch for door, off, on. I wired them to the factory door switches. Simple, cheap and effective.
I know, I know... it's like a luxury car now, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOFZpU0BBL0
Attached thumbnail(s)
We had a rain delay on the Red Barn meetup but today @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 and I came by to see @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 ’s ride in action. Not only was Chris gracious enough to hand the keys over to both of us, he also treated us to lunch! This is the second time I have driven Chris’ 914 with the first being just after it first got running. That experience was great but I have to say the car has come a long way in this redux. Surprisingly, it is very quiet on startup. Definitely neighbor friendly. In the cabin, it is much louder but that is with no sound deadening, carpet, no dash, etc. The drive is quite nice. Steering is precise and the ride felt smooth and balanced. Needless to say, this thing is crazy powerful! Did not matter which gear you were in as there was more power than I would know what to do with. Suppose I could figure something out if I had to.. The feel of the throttle is much better with the stock intake than it was with the Borla setup. Totally controllable and not abrupt. The clutch was super short in throw and quite heavy. Chris is working through that and is hopeful that smaller master cylinder with bring it in line. The gearbox is super tight and has a fairly short throw on the gear stick. I found myself shifting slow, mainly because I was not used to it and did not want to mess anything up. Overall, it was a great day seeing the boys. Only negative was having to drive my 944s2 home as it seemed to lack power after the 914 drive. Hmmm..
It was too much fun having @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark drive the car. Watching them, I saw myself on my first few drives, a bit tentative, thinking "what's this thing going to do when/if I...?"
But the car really is a nice cruiser. At least until you get with the go pedal. Then things turn serious, like RIGHT NOW!
Both commented on the ridiculously stiff/short-throw clutch set up. Yes, it's a thing and it's high on the "what's next to update" list.
It was also nice to get feedback on the digital dash. At first, everyone thinks it's too small. Both Mark and Robert commented that it works out just fine.
The other upgrade I'm likely going to do is swap in an Albins ring & pinion. They offer a 15% lower ratio which would be a big help. As is, virtually everything about the gearing is too short. Great for a track/autocross set up but 3K RPM at 70 MPH isn't doing my fuel consumption any favors. Plus, I have to get the LSD installed. The R&P are backordered so I'll wait 'til I can source one then do all the trans updates.
Until then, it's:
- refining the suspension / alignment settings to make it feel the way I want. It's still a bit darty for my tastes.
- finishing up the wiring. I need to add stuff like USB charging port for the phone and a couple other little things.
- start on the interior!
Man, I can't wait until the next time I go to Chris'. Hopefully my car will be back on the road next week after some minor improvements so I can take a ride up to the Red Barn.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael - I was thinking it might be time to host another Red Barn Workshop / Hang Out event. I'll PM you and we can work out a time that coincides with your visit.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Very cool; that would be a lot of fun.
I had a surprise visitor today. ClecoBoy stopped by the Red Barn!
He asked about you, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 ...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And now that I see things more in place, I actually think the "all flat" looks pretty good.
I can always change it later.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the screen valance, but the muffler will not be that visible correct?
OK..... I got to drive this car the other day.
I have been following this thread and watching this car being built for YEARS now!!!!!!
So.... what's it like? .... imagine you get to meet the actor from a favorite movie that you have watched 245 times. Is it a good thing? Will your expectations be squashed?
Nope.
This thing may not have an interior, but what it lacks in comfort it makes up for in RAW FU#@ING TESTOSTERONE!!!!!!! It's like a body builder wearing a custom tuxedo.
Chris constructed this car professionally. Where most of us focus on easy things like the paint, the trim, the wheels, the small parts...... not Chris..... not yet..... Chris is the King of the Big Stuff. Custom Stuff. It takes time. It requires one to LEARN those many, many things that few people ever need to learn..... and if needed, most of us would just HOPE that we can Google a local expert willing to fit us into his/her schedule to do the special work. Chris DID the specialized work...... and now the car fires up, purrs down the road..... waits for you to be less scared - just enough to press the right foot....... then becomes a FU#@IN DRAGON!!!!!!!!! A FIRE-SCREAMING DRAGON!!!!
I love this car the way you (kind of) love your neighbor's kids after you have watched them grow up. It's 98% done, in my opinion. Before driving it I would have said it was 55% done. But that's the me that spends my time ordering parts on Pelican. Experiencing this beast first-foot makes me more patient about seeing final paint, and more interested in having the clutch adjusted to less than 225 foot pounds (ok, maybe not that bad.... but HEAVY!)..... and maybe a few interior soft parts to keep the minor rattling down to a whisper.
This is the first V8 914 I have driven, so maybe I am just having a I-just-saw-Scarlett-Johansson-for-the-first-time moment....... but I wonder how many V8 914s communicate so fluidly between the Blueprinted motor, the Boxster trans, the digital dash, the dialed in suspension, the world class electronics (you get the picture) so well. So.... umm.....more than I expected. (It's not perfect. It's also not done.)
Yes, it's powerful.... we knew it would be. But once it's in 6th gear and you are cruising...... you realize that you could drive it to Santa Barbara - where before you wondered if you would put up with a 45 minute drive around the tri county area to Cars & Coffee. The quality of the build and the spare-no-expense parts shine during a ride. It's come together exactly as Chris sometimes doubted if it could.... or would.
Great car.
Now get it painted, you fu#@ing slacker!
(Seriously, Thank you for letting me drive it. I went straight home and slapped my 914 across the 2056.)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 - Well written, entertaining summary of your drive. WCR is going to be a blast!
Damn Robert! Well said!! @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Mark, Robert: Thanks for the wonderful comments. Knowing how particular you both are, I'm humbled to hear your reviews and certainly happy to hear my build has passed your tests! And thanks, as always, for your constructive criticism.
“The trouble with most of us is that we'd rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.”
– Norman Vincent Peale
Rear Panel Grill V1, with style points (and temporary pop rivets)
For this first go, I decided to try a panel in satin black and incorproate the standard trunk button. I have a solenoid latch that I could operate with a hidden lever and have this panel be blank in the center.
Then I noodled on it for a bit and figured that in a side view, you get the pop of door handle chrome and from the front, even with painted bumpers, there's the fog light grill chrome so from the back, maybe this dot of shiny is in keeping with that overall concept.
Plus, I can always make a "button delete" panel, if I end up wanting a naked rear.
But at this point, I think this looks pretty good.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - I like the trunk release on the panel. It adds just that bit of chrome that it needs. Will you be fitting the rear lid, bumper and valance soon?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - You are absolutely right - a rear lid makes a huge difference. Looking forward to seeing it with the rear bumper too. But I would suggest just holding a short rear valance up under the bumper and taking a look...
And a nice chrome bumper borrowed from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark completes the look. Well, OK, those Carl Rudolph fiberglass bumper tops REALLY complete it! @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=25893 , here're some pics for you.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5934 - This is how much of the muffler will be visible, unless @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Michael talks me into running some sort of valance.
Anyway, I'm liking how this rear end look is coming together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A few more. Man, oh man, those bumper tops are NICE!! And this is how they are delivered. All I did was bolt them on. No muss, no fuss, no adjusting them to get them to fit nicely. A true "bolt on". I couldn't be happier with them.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Chris I am really liking the look. I still think a valance would complete the look- but that's just me. Cheers buddy.
Stupid Idea #346
When you paint... A set of Rally stripe to match the vents with the mesh pattern in them? my .02 great car following along
Kevin
Forgive me. Couldn't help myself. A valance would look very nice.
Normally I do not like 4 pipes out the back of a 914 (not a fan of the Monza exhaust- sorry) but if there ever was a car that justified 4 pipes like photoshopped here, this is it. That does look very cool- but I also liked the way Chris did the 2 pipes out the rear and so did my brother.
All joking aside, let me point out that with the current exhaust system and muffler set up, there's no practical way to have that quad exhaust. No, I'm not interested in doing another version of the exhaust.
Well, at least not right now...
OK....
Love that car!
Nice rear end !
Here is mine... The PO deleted the chrome and went with a blended look. I like the original but I don't mind the mod either.
Front end still has the chrome and I'm waiting for delivery of the Carl Rudolph front bumper top to make it body color and extend the race stripes.
I'm headed to the EASY cars & coffee this Saturday and it's quite interesting how motivating I find it to think others may be looking at my car. Time to tidy up a few things!
Let's start with a "first": This is the first time I've fully installed the console cover! What a difference it makes to how the interior looks. Note there are only a handful of temporary rivets in place. I still need to fit a couple things before fully panel bonding and installing the structural rivets.
But I'm really happy with how this turned out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That console area looks fantastic. Mmmm like the Tilton pedal system. So cool Chris.
Enjoy the EASY get together. Your going to get a lot of questions & attention!
Out and about, running errands in my daily driver. Get in, start, drive, park, repeat.
It's turning out to be a regular ol' car - so long as you stay out of the go pedal.
But let's talk about "inflation": That car next to me claims to be a "Mini"... HA!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Now that I'm driving it a fair bit, I'm prioritizing improvement of the driving experience. It's been a bit of a rattle trap, all the interior wiring and electronics are exposed, etc. And most importantly, after having a few passengers, as well and having been one, all that exposed stuff is at risk of being bumped or kicked. So after errands, it was back home to work on that.
A bit of CAD and a few versions later (what, you think I don't still do that? ) I have a ventilated "upper" guard. Ventilated because the PMU maxes out at 150 amps and needs air circulation.
I had a bit of the engine grill left over from the rear panel work and figured I give it a go.
Triple bonus style points for that rectangular cut out that creates a perfect window to see the status lights on the PMU.
I may remove the screen in that viewing area but figured I'd leave it in place for this version. It's not like I'm looking in there much. OK, ever.
And yes, I still have a bit of routing left to work out as well as all the sheathing to do.
Next step: Add an angled panel for the passenger foot rest/"lower"guard.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Love the convenience changes!! Finishing touches are just lovely!
Holy smokes- I go away for a week and you’ve gone full bumper and rear trunk lid plus a couple dozen other custom fabs. It’s even looking 914ish again. Well done.
A buddy calls and says, "Your car is in Grassroots Motorsports". I say, "Right, I'm posting the build there..."
"No" he says, "I mean in the magazine."
Must have been a slow news month but I'll take it! RacerBenz and I got a call out in this month's issue...
I'm getting the feeling I know where the work "PRESSure" comes from!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Back to 914-related stuff: Today, Robert @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 , Mike @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11529 and Mark @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 headed over to the monthly gathering at EASY in Emeryville. Almost unbelievably, Robert said he wanted to ride with me. Heck, I didn't even sleep well, thinking about the drive, I mean, we had to cross a 5.5 mile long bridge! TWICE! This was the litmus test drive for me: farthest distance, starting in the dark, weekend traffic.
I'm SOOOO pleased to report that the car performed flawlessly! Outside air temp was in the mid 40s when we left. The seat heaters again proved themselves and I actually ended up turning mine from Hi to Low. Not to say that my wife would have loved it but considering I have no carpet, a totally naked targa roof, no targa-to-window seals and only an 18 ga sheet metal panel between the engine and interior, it really wasn't bad.
Robert and I chatted the whole way and, well, it works!
The car attracted a fair bit of attention with the expected range of reactions:
Walk right by with barely a glance to wanting a full rundown of all the mods. Mostly it was "I bet this thing goes pretty good." You, Sir, are correct!
In summary, it was the best of days. Hanging with my good buddies doing car stuff and home in time for lunch with my wife. I'm one lucky guy.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Kudos to you Chris. What an excellent day in your 914 with the drive to EASY and with Robert riding shotgun. Also, getting published with the Benz is so very cool- you deserve all of the praise and it really speaks well of your fabrication skills. I can tell WCR is going to be a great drive and trip.
Awesome!! Magazine coverage AND a great drive!!!
So I have about 1000 miles on this thing and am getting a feel for usability.
One thing that really stands out is that it needs taller gears. While the stock Boxster gearing is great for spirited back road driving, at 70 mph it's spinning about 3000 RPM. Way too busy when I'm on the freeway. So... (and I'm sure this will be a big surprise) I'm going all in on my transmission mods: I ordered an Albins 3.0 ring & pinion.
This will be installed at the same time the LSD goes in and should make a world of difference in both comfort and fuel economy. Yes, I do care about that, too.
Today's Out & About was a lunch date with my lovely wife! She said the seats were really comfy so I'm taking that as a win.
As we were backing out of this parking spot, she looked UNDER the truck to check for traffic.
I'll overstate the obvious and say:
"You really want to be careful when you're driving these little cars!"
Attached thumbnail(s)
The Albins ring & pinion arrived one day after being ordered and is now being shipped out for cryo and REM Superfinish treatment. OOOOOOH! Shiny.... Obviously not a ring & pinion but this is the result of the work.
There are proven benefits to this and if you really want to geek out, here's a link to the place that's doing the work. There are a bunch of papers on all sorts of interesting stuff related to these processes.
My primary reasons for doing it are that it all but eliminates the run-in period and associated risks and is proven to measurably reduce parasitic losses in the trans, improving both RWP and coast down numbers.
Worth it? Overkill? Stupid? I'll let you know!
https://www.cryogenicsuperfinish.com/processes/
The trans is then headed to CMS in AZ where this ring & pinion and an LSD will be installed. The trans will also receive a general going over and whatever needs refreshing will get it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Congrats on the magazine article!
That cryo process is certainly state of the art. Amazing tech.
Wow, talk about machine parts porn!
The cryo place is in my general neighborhood. Time for a field trip.
To absolute zero and beyond!!!!!
Why doesn't this surprise me Chris? Always something beyond cool going on into your builds.
OK, this may qualify as the "absolute least action" picture. Why? Because that there is my new ring & pinon in the cryo chamber!
See what I did there? Really, cold, like downwards of -300, so not a lot of moving = not much action... OK, sorry.
Anyway, here are some general geek-out benefits to the cryo process:
-Increased abrasion and wear resistance
-Increased fatigue life
-Increased ductility
-Reduced residual stresses
-Mild increase in tensile strength
-A change in vibration characteristics
Specifically for gears:
-50% extra pitting resistance
-5% more load carrying capacity
-40 to 60 degrees higher tempering temperature
-treated gears operate cooler in friction action
-3-4 times increased life of racing gears, including drag racing applications
Attached thumbnail(s)
Learn something new every day; that is certainly a very cool finish.
Step 1: Modify stuff
Step 2: Drive a couple hundred miles
Step 3: Take it apart to do something else
Step 4: Repeat!
Here we go again. Trans is out and on it's way to get the new ring & pinion and LSD installed. I'll pull the engine tomorrow and go to work on finalizing everything in the engine compartment area. I have a little bit more metal work and wiring to do.
Once that's done, I'm going to spray heat/sound control on the back of the fire wall then paint this area.
The goal is that everything under the trunk and engine lid will be done for WCR.
Wish me luck!
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Have you selected a color?
I can't wait to see it going back together with finished parts; it's going to look epic.
What to do when you've sacrificed both trunks in the name of water cooled HP and maximum access/style points and you want to attend some far away events?
Getting ready for some road trips!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert found what I think is the best looking luggage rack and he's letting me play with it for a while.
If I can't talk him out of this one, I may have to make my own copy of this. I love how it looks like a spoiler!
Do you disagree with having a luggage rack on a hopped up 914? Have you seen @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 Andy's car?
Attached thumbnail(s)
That Ferrari engine would be awesome . . . just sayin'
Hmm, wonder what else @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 has been hiding in his stash? I think it looks great. A bit bold but luckily, your car can pull that off easily! Time to drill some holes in that deck lid..
NOOOOOOOO! (Hey, you asked.)
Its either that or a track type trailer.. Make the back of that thing a spoiler???? Since you will make your own.??
Chris - well if you're considering that, then the logical extension is, surely:
Build the rack on a second roof panel, then you can simply swap out for local or touring use.....! Extra lights and front bar are optional.
- Tony
Thinking you can fabricate a huge stainless suitcase to match.
The only suitable cargo solution is a trailer made from the rear half of a 914. With flares, of course.
Or just travel with your credit card.
So Chris...any other new that you'd like to impart to the audience?
Get a second trunk lid and paint it with the car so you can install when the rack isn't needed. Or, design a couple of rails that you can attach the rack to when needed. Oh wait, you don't like design projects....my bad.
There is no way this will fit in my car. Why even try?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Holy McEngineSwap, it fits. I would have bet big $ this wasn't going to be the result, but here we are. The whole drive train needs to come up maybe another inch but it all looks totally workable. The axle angle looks better than with the LS/Boxster, the rear of the trans clears the body work and it looks like it'll all work with a stock fire wall location.
Good thing, because I've sourced another 914 and this drivetrain is going in!
I'll be starting a separate build thread for that one.
My existing car will keep its LS/Boxster set up and continue to be refined.
But wowzers, this is so f-ing COOL!
Attached thumbnail(s)
"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him." -Captain Quint, Jaws 1975
I can't believe that engine/transaxle fit; that is just crazy. You're going to need a bigger barn...
Ferrari engine in a Porsche. Soon dogs and cats will sleep together. Where will this end……
All I can think is "Chris, you made a time machine outta a 914!"
Gonna feel like a dam time machine with that pushing it!
Hoping this is the last pic of this before I start the new build thread.
How cool will it be to have this peaking out from under the bumper?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Confusing.
Enough of this Ferrari silliness. Let's get back to important things. Like voiding warranties by adding style points!
I've never been a fan of large expanses of plain material. In this case, it was my engine adaptor plate that wasn't doing it for me. I was losing sleep! It was just begging for some relief pockets.
So yesterday, when a machinist buddy stopped by to borrow a bending die, I asked if he could help. About an hour later, he sends me the pic.
Another touch that will likely go unnoticed by nearly everyone. Fellow style point appreciators @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11529 Mike aside!
Attached thumbnail(s)
WAIT,……WHAT?!!!!!
Unreal! That’s very cool Chris.
Another build coming up.
Attached image(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - It is your attention to detail that sets this car apart from other builds. So, yeah, I love the reliefs cut into the engine adaptor plate. It makes it visually interesting.
I so look forward to seeing it with some plated parts and paint all assembled.
The cool factor gets them looking. The details keeps them looking!
Can't wait to see this in person!
Chris, I’m really liking the vibe of your new build! Can’t wait to see it in person.
For those who've never seen the flywheel that's part of the LS/Boxster adaptor. It's a beauty! A big and heavy beauty, despite the lightening effort. But it has a big responsibility, don't it?
Attached thumbnail(s)
And my machinist buddy called and let me know to come pick up the part! Less than 24 hour turn-around. See, it really is all about who you know. And in this case? I know JP Morgan. No, really. That's his name. It is.
Sharp eyes will notice I'm form over function on this: the pockets were cut only in those surfaces visible from the top. Yep, it's all about style points!
Now if only I could do something about the back sides of those cylinder heads...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Public Service Announcement and Cuteness Overload:
My build may be slowed down a bit! My wife volunteers at Morti's Used Book Nook and Cat Adoption Lounge, here in Petaluma. Yes, it's a book store with free roaming, up-for-adoption kitties. It's a remarkable place.
https://www.petalumapetpals.org/mortibooksandcats
Anyway, we're fostering mother ChaCha and her litter of four. Once they reach 2 lbs, everyone heads off for spay/neuter then on to Morti's before heading to their "furever" home. Here I am, falling hard for Hula, while her brother, Twist, ignores us.
Second pic is the whole "Dance Crew". From left:
Twist, Disco, Hula, with JitterBug there in the background.
It's so easy to spend hours with them.
The PSA part of this is: If you can help foster, please consider it. These animal rescues do such amazing work and they need all the help they can get. Thanks!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Beyond cute; had kitties for 30 years. God bless you.
My LS was feeling a bit less sexy than usual, what with that Ferrari engine sitting there in the shop. So I treated it to a few more style points by way of some neat-o valve covers. These look SOOO much better than the stock LS covers and their unused coil mount bosses.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice!
Those have a NICE look to them!
Moving from "looks so much better" to what's looking as ratty as can be.
Today was working on the rear lighting harness: final routing then sheathing with DR 25.
Yes, an incredibly boring pic but I know you care about all these details.
I'm nearly to the point where I'll be seam sealing the fire wall and spraying the sound/heat treatment. Major milestone stuff!
Attached image(s)
That certainly takes the LS engine to the next level; very nice.
So I actually did get something more done on my car. I made part of the rear lighting harness.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
A shame that Porsche didn't make them all like that. That is the way I wish my car was wired. Very clean and I am sure, 100% more reliable and maintenance free.
Where to route the harness... This is too visible But I have an idea!
Attached thumbnail(s)
A few holes and some split grommets for protection and?
There, that's better. Once sheathed and secured, it'll all but disappear.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Rear lighting harness tested, sheathed, sealed and installed with all protective grommets in place. Nearly invisible, as hoped.
Attached thumbnail(s)
If you look back at the last couple pics, you'll see that the corners of the engine compartment still had remnants of the stock sheet metal. Today was working to tidy up these areas.
Another item to address is that this is a '75 so since I removed all the support structure for the BUBs, I needed to do something to reinforce the rear panel and be sure things would be strong enough to put it back on the rotisserie when it's time for blasting and paint.
First step was to remove all the old metal, then fab a couple bumper mount area spreader plates. With those in place, I folded up a triangular corner brace that ties the rear panel to the reinforced area of the inner wheel wells.
A nice big speed hole to give it some additional strength and visual interest and it's nearly time to weld it all together.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like it
Nice.
Nice touch
No teasing of the other engine swap potential here?
Both rear corner braces fabbed, fitted and ready to install. Maybe kinda looking like 911 engine mounts, as someone pointed out to me.
Gotta say, it's hard to focus on the braces with that drive train sitting there!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice. Even the gussets. Is gusset-envy a thing...
Who says you can't use a Ferrari 360 engine cover/rear hatch release as the lever to actuate your 914 GT headlights?
This will most likely get used on the other build as the trunk release latch but I had to give it a go, just for fun. Good news is it worked.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Today was contorting myself into the foot well to replace the clutch master cylinder. It was a 7/8" bore which, while great for track use, ends up being WAY too heavy and essentially an On/Off switch. It was replaced with a 3/4", as recommend in a quick call with Renegade. Should be a greatly improved driving experience.
Then I spoke with CMS about the updates to the Boxster trans. I mentioned it's getting the 3.0 ring and pinion (down from the factory 3.44 ratio) and an LSD.
I allowed myself to be talked into adding their billet side plate and a fix to prevent the dreaded "popping out of 2nd", which mine wasn't doing. But easier to prevent now than address later, should it have happened. Exciting pics, I know.
Finally, they're prepping the case for a trans cooler and temp sensor.
It should be done and back to me in a couple/few weeks.
Attached image(s)
Progress and new parts are always exciting.
Our foster kitties are doing great! They celebrated their 7 week birthday on Weds, 5/11.
Left to right, that's Twist, JitterBug, Hula and Disco.
A nice distraction from the car projects, that for sure.
Attached image(s)
I swear, I'm trying to add more 914-realted content to this build thread. Just look at what I was trying to do when the kitty cuddle puddle ended up in my lap!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Incredibly cute
Waiting for the transmission allowed me to focus on a couple items I've wanted to redo.
One was my hood prop. Cool as I think it was, I completely overlooked the fact that the pit pin handle would get hot, what with being a foot from the radiator! Not fun when you go for a refuel...
Here's an early version of that set up, but you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So I ordered the Camp914 hood strut kit - and then realized I'd removed my hood spring brackets. What to do?
First, I removed the strut ball pins from the bracket that bolts to the hood, reversed it and welded it back on. This moves the strut outboard. Now all I needed to do was fab a bracket for the other ball pin, worked out where it needed to be and weld it to the chassis. Done!
Attached thumbnail(s)
All done here. Repeat on the other side and, she's complete.
On to removing / repairing all the mounting points for that original hood prop and looking forward to uneventful refueling!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Oh, and to a hinge update, thanks to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16669 !
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very nice job with the struts and the Oscar hinges will look perfect.
I'm getting a lot of the little projects done. Today it was working up a solution for the GT headlight pull. That Ferrari lever is way too big for what I wanted, plus it didn't really fit anywhere that I liked.
I wanted something a bit stealth and I ended up sourcing a domestic hood release latch ( Amazon ~ $10).
A bit of rummaging in the parts stash and a quick muttering of, "I swear I have one of those 90 degree throttle cable routing tubes..." Bingo!
Then I cut a mounting tab and removable mounting plate. Pay no attention to the mismatched fasteners - I need a specifically sized shoulder bolt and these were all I had laying around. I'll get matching ones, I promise.
Now, where am I going to mount this?
Attached thumbnail(s)
I love it when the stars align. Who'd have guessed that a randomly selected latch would fit perfectly in the lower dash pad indent under the steering column? Well, it does! And really nicely.
And just for fun, I applied a spare wireless steering wheel button sticker. Not sure I like it as lowers the stealth value. I may end up removing it. We'll see after it's fully installed and I can experience it with the car back together.
Now to weld on the tab and check this off the to-do list.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It took a bit of welding upside down while contorted in the footwell, using my shoulder to work the pedal... but with that fun session of "stunt welding" out of the way, the headlight release is fitted under the steering column.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Tool Whore ALERT:
With all the panels I've changed out or removed, I need to get things sealed up ahead of paint so after a bit of research, I treated myself to an SEM pneumatic seam sealer gun.
This will allow me to essentially duplicate the look of the factory seam seal, as well as spray sound pad and other neat-o looks.
It also strikes me that I need to post a thread and announce some sort of "tool loan" program. I'm fortunate enough to have amassed some pretty cool tools and I was thinking I should let folks know they're available to borrow.
This seam sealer gun is a great example of something that makes all the difference in getting "the look" during repair/resto but that most folks wouldn't want to buy to use just once. Beyond my took whore-ness, I figured I could justify it based on needing it for my car, the Ferrari 914 build, RacerBenz and my E9, which needs floor pans and spare tire well repair. And @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark will for sure want to use it on Smoggy!
Certainly some details to work out to ensure a successful loaner program, but it seems like the thing to do. Your suggestions welcomed.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Good on you! This tool in particular is one that begs for a rental/loaner program of some sort. Just one more of many examples of your generosity.
Chris is an amazingly generous man and we are blessed to have him in our World. Plus his place is just awesome.
Cool tool dude
The E9 is back home. It's now a 3.5 injected 5-speed with a proper stance, new wheels and LOTS and lots of other stuff done to it. Euro bumper conversion in the works.
Probably as different from my 914 as another classic car could be.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
Beautiful! I love E9s, and that's a great shot with the Ferrari engine poking up in the back and the 914 waiting its turn.
Wow, what a lovely E9. I dont know all the old BMW colors by heart, but is that Fjord Blue?
Euro bumper conversion will elevate it quite a bit. Love the M30 motor also.
Perfect two car solution LOL
Back to the 914! Today was more "stunt welding". This time, it was the back/underside of the transmission mount X brace. I was laying on a board that was propped up on two tires. I had to wedge myself against the chassis to keep from sliding down the board. But I was able to get comfortable enough to get this result. The lovely blue background is the underside of my trunk.
Certainly room for improvement but I feel like I'm getting a reasonable handle on TIGing.
Please note that the driving reason I post stuff like this isn't to show off what may be a nice result. It's to point out that only a few years ago, I didn't know how to weld at all.
I hope what folks take from this is that if I can do it, you can, too. Give it a try, practice and...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Nice welds. Clamped to a bench and working over it, I can't weld like that ...Or anywhere near that.
Man I love that E9, one of my favorite cars right there. Those are great welds on the brace, keep up the great work.
A cool new tool AND a beautiful E9!!!
All that and generous with your time and resources.
The welds look fantastic to me. The BMW looks fantastic too. Can't wait to see it in person with the Euro bumpers.
...how I mustard the hot dogs while attending a Dodger game, can't help it
As long as we're this far off track:
My E9 made the "cover" of next month's BCR event announcement email!
What about the 914? The trans is awaiting a back-ordered shim needed for the ring & pinion set up. It was the only size CMS didn't have in stock. Of course it was...!
Attached image(s)
Actual 914 stuff: Prepping the engine bay for seam sealer and some primer.
Can I just say that I like fab work far more than paint prep...
That said, I can't wait to see things all tidied up and in a single color.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Paint prep is the worst. It feels as if it will never end.
More fiddly stuff: With the reverse opening flip trunk set up, I didn't need any of the stock hinge mounting brackets - so out they came. It's getting pretty tidy in here!
And those little blocks you see? Those are my patent pending "914 Flip Trunk, Front Edge Positioning Pads". They're Delrin.
I made up a couple brackets that mount to the standard hinge mount locations on the trunk lid. Those bracket are held down by the pads on engine lid side panels. And since they extend under that area, a bit beyond the pads, they also serve as safety catches.
That 2nd pic is of the initial, way too complicated version of the brackets. I didn't get a pic of the final version, but you get the idea.
The underside of the lid is then held up by the pad in the seal channel. I sized the pads to work in concert to position the front edge of the lid, with the smallest bit of interference, this to ensure no rattles.
Yep, just more little stuff that took forever to figure out. But it works like a charm!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Your car is definitely going to WCR! Yay! Congratulations on the BCR cover photo- very neat.
For those who may care, these are the final version rear lid latch/catch parts, just back from powder coat. A nice 1/2 gloss, sorta matte finish. I like the look! And as you can see, far simpler and lighter. A "less is more" example.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Speaking of finishes, here are a few other pieces I had done.
- battery tray/fuse mount
- passenger foot rest/electronics guard
- trans mount: this started out as a Renegade kit part but was modified to account for the elimination of the factory transmission mount in favor of a custom cross bar/suspension tower brace.
I have to say, it's satisfying to see all these bits I've made get all prettied up. Almost looks like I knew what I wanted!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wow those look awesome, you have mad skills.
Can't wait to see it all assembled with color, powder coating, plating, etc.
Those parts look really great with some color finish on them. Brings out the little details!
Like most of the stuff you have done to the car - a work of art
WOW! Those parts look amazing!
Thanks for the nice compliments on the powder coated parts.
But what the heck is this? Well, I was trying to get to know the sprayable seam sealer gun ahead of taking it to my car.
With a quick turn of a knob, it sprays a wide "sound deadener" pattern to the other, narrower looks you see here.
Wish me luck, I'm going in...
Attached thumbnail(s)
In typical fashion, what seems easy while you're practicing on nice flat surfaces with complete access ends up being a bit more challenging to pull off on the car.
But here's how it turned out.
I think once it's top coated, it'll be fine but I may try spraying another, very light layer of sealer to see if I can close up those little holes.
I plan to prime then paint, or perhaps, since my entire engine bay/trunk area is exposed to the elements, shoot Wurth Stone Guard over all the sheet metal. Still thinking about that.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's looking great.
Details, details. Here's the foot rest/guard with the grill in place, then installed.
I still need to sheath the chassis harness so forgive the visible wiring. It'll all but disappear once I complete it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
OK, yes. I'm bragging a little. I happily confess I'm pretty proud of this piece and the quality of the fit I was able to get. The gap along that curve is consistent all along the rising radius of the inner fender - and buried in the foot well where no one will see it.
Another of the "but I know it's there" details I love about this build.
Attached thumbnail(s)
People are going to have to remove their shoes when they get in because those parts are just beautiful Chris.
I will not be quitting my day job to become a paint guy. Ugh. I hated every minute of this process.
The details: Since I'm planning to blow the car apart, media blast it and get it painted at some point, for now, I opted to use a 2k rattle can epoxy primer and good ol' Rustoleum "Smoke Gray" to at least tidy up the engine bay. Essentially, a typical race car approach: Forget what color/livery the outside will be. The business areas get painted a light color so it's easy to spot fluids, easy to touch up, etc.
Anyway, it looks 100X better than it ever has. Should look pretty good once it's all back together.
The transmission shim is supposed to arrive at CMS today and they expect to finish assembly and ship this week. It's going to be tight getting it all back together and tested in time for WCR.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That does look very nice. Paint work is all about the prep and it is no fun.
Here's another non-914 part that will never be seen: the removable bulkhead panel at the aft end of the tunnel. Now all nicely powder coated and back in place.
Attached thumbnail(s)
So many cool fab toys! I'm jealous.
...to that. A protective cover for the ECU. With the seat in place, you can only see the front portion of it but that doesn't mean I can ignore the style points!
The rectangular areas will get the same mesh as the foot rest/guard. It'll get the same powder coat treatment, too.
And in keeping with my typical approach, now that I see it in the metal and in place, I decided it needed a few design tweaks, so I updated the CAD file. Unfortunately, I ran out of the needed material. I'll get to the steel supply tomorrow and see if I can knock this out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A rare sighting: An actual 914 part!
Thanks to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=1319 for the lovely powder coated pieces and new hardware.
Though to keep with the "mine is different" theme, that is a custom washer and oversized bolt to work with the Renegade engine crossbar.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The metal supply place didn't have anything but full 5' x 10' or 4' x 8' sheets of steel and I have to order them to be cut in half, which take a couple days for them to process. I didn't feel like waiting so I opted to use some .063 AL I had on hand. Once it's powder coated, I doubt anyone will be able to tell.
Anyway, this updated design is a better fit and the holes are more accurately positioned. Plus, it's lighter!
On to the fastener set up.
Attached thumbnail(s)
My transmission shipped on Friday! Should be here mid next week... so what to do in the meantime?
I mentioned earlier how boring I find "plain" things. Well, my radiator shroud couldn't have been any plainer and I've been wanting to do something about it since I first made it. Well, today was the day.
First, I worked up a design that I hope echos the stamping in the fuel tank bulkhead and matches the curve of the frunk opening. Is it too simple?
Too late - it's off to the plasma table!
Attached thumbnail(s)
A behind the scenes look at "stamping station". The tubing bender hydraulics are dry break, quick release and can be hooked to the H-press. A pretty handy set of capabilities, if a bit cumbersome and on the large size. But it sure works well for this sort of thing.
Attached thumbnail(s)
With the stamping die male components welded in place to the male backer, the shroud is placed between the two pieces. Note that, as always, I cut the die to be the same shape as the piece being stamped, making it simple to get everything positioned nearly perfectly.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Into the press it goes. And this isn't a "one and done" operation. Because of the size and shape of the area the press presses at any one time, I have to walk the assembled die/part through the press in order to get stamping force on all parts of the assembly.
This was my first time stamping aluminum, and it's always a bit nerve-wracking pulling the part out of the dies, wondering, "How'd I do? Is the part ruined?"
Here's the before and after and I'm calling it a success.
There are a couple flaws but since it'll be getting powder coated, I'm pretty sure it'll be fine.
It's certainly a LOT more interesting looking and I think I achieved the design goals I was after.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Boy that really looks great!!
That looks great.
What a difference. Nice work dude
On to some boring but very important stuff: mounting the front air dam. Here's a pic to remind you just how awesome this one is. A nice wide opening that's just right for a water cooled set up. It seems this model is no longer available so I want to do all I can to ensure it's securely mounted and doesn't fail like so many fiberglass part do.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And what I mean by "fail" is that fiberglass doesn't stand up well to fasteners. It tends to delaminate, crack and otherwise come apart at or near the fastener locations.
Anyway, you can see this air dam has mounting tabs; the two that you can see in that earlier pic and two close to the ends. It's tempting to simply drill holes in them and bolt it to the car. But it'll be way better to add something that both prevents crushing the composite and better distributes the fastening load: a suitably sized shouldered spacer.
Drill a hole, scuff the area around the hole and bond the spacer to the air dam. Once things are cured, I'll dress the back side of the spacer so it's coincidental with the back side of the tab.
Now when the air dam is bolted on, the entire load is placed on the washer and the fiberglass is just along for the ride. Repeated installation/removal is essentially no risk.
Mo' betta'.
Attached image(s)
I am loving that air dam and your mounting solution Chris.
The transmission is back from CMS. Wow... It's like new.
- a complete rebuild
- newly plated hardware
And better than that, it may be the ultimate G86-20 for use in a V8 914. It's now equipped with:
- WaveTrack limited slip differential
- cryo treated 3.0 ratio ring & pinion (stock is 3.44)
- CMS billet side plate
- CMS shift arrestor (preemptive move to combat the "slips out of 2nd" issue)
- tapped for in/out cooler lines
- tapped for a coolant temp sensor
Attached thumbnail(s)
Apparently I have not logged in for a while, had 3 pages of updates to drool over.
Really starts to look put together when paint/powder is starting to show up.
Bravo
Damn sexy!!
That is a thing of beauty. Is it in yet?
Now that is a nice transmission...
Let's get this contraption stuffed back in the car!
The question is: Will I have it ready and all proven out in time for WCR?
This round of updates included:
- all the above mentioned transmission changes
- updated clutch master cylinder (smaller bore to lessen the pedal force)
- minor wiring updates
- some fun style points updates
Attached thumbnail(s)
Those who know me know I have this thing for "style points". These sometimes coincide with my fondness for "matchy-match". I got a double whammy today with some drilled/countersunk holes in the shift lever. Style points, for sure, but also matchy-match with the seat grommets and the window winders - and maybe even the top area of the shift knob.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Closer... and boy, what a difference with the painted engine bay, shiny new trans and some powder coated bits.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Man, that looks great.
All back together enough to complete the an initial, short test run. Note that I'm still waiting for a batch of parts to come back from powder coat, hence no engine lid or trunk. Observations from the first few miles:
- new ring & pinon makes a HUGE difference. At one point, I went to shift from 6th to 5th (based on previous feel of speed and engine sound) only to realize, I was already in 5th! It just lopes along and is far more relaxed at cruise - exactly as I hoped it would.
- it shifts like butta'. Way lighter movement/engagement.
- the reverse detent is REALLY light. Like too light. Like when you move the shift lever to put it in 1st, you have to pay attention that you don't move past the detent.
I'll call CMS tomorrow and see if there's something I can do about it.
- smaller clutch master resulted in, as expected, a much lighter pedal. But it engages RIGHT off the floor. I'm going to give it another round of bleeding and play with the pedal adjustments.
- I want to get a few more test runs in before I "test" the LSD!
Long story short: For the first time since I've been on 914 World, I'll have a 914 at WRC!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is amazing. I look forward to seeing it on the 20th.
You are a animal! I can barely crawl out of bed every morning…
Can’t wait for a ride……..
WOW, well what to say but the fab is "fab"ulous!!!!
curious about the body paint status, I know you want to get it back running asap and get to WCR etc so are you just going to prime in necessary places and then go back latera nd pull it all out to fininsh the outer and inner panel paint? thats going to be a lot of extra work(ask me how i know) .
Phil
Clean clean clean.
Amazing how much work you can get done in such a short time
Looking forward to seeing this in person next week!
Haven’t tuned in to these pages for a while. Whoa!!
What a creation. That transmission is art. Interior looks awesome Chris.
Engine bay , well , impressive. I can’t imagine how that beast drives.
Enjoy the WCR!
A positive attitude as always Chris. I am sorry to hear it has to go back to CMS, but glad it is something they will take care of after WCR for you.
A big congratulations Chris. It's been a long road traveled but I know you've enjoyed every inch of the journey. Can't wait to see it move under it's own power next week.
With a few more test miles on the car I'm working through with what feels like a never-ending list of "I should...". I spent a good portion of yesterday chasing down and addressing virtually all the last few rattles. This morning, I took it out for another shakedown drive and at this point, I'm ready to say "Wow. What a difference this latest round up updates has made."
- the smaller clutch master means driving it is no longer "leg day".
- it's still brutally quick when you want it to be but with the new gearing, it's nowhere near as "busy" to operate. And it's an absolute cruiser on the freeway. 65 mph is now a fairly relaxed 2300 RPM - down about 700 RPM.
- best of all, there are essentially no more rattles!
And I've decided I am going to ventilate the inner fenders. While the car has never overheated, on hot days, say 90 degrees +, days, I'm pretty sure the hood vents would appreciate a little help and maybe that'll cause the fan to run a bit less often. Can't hurt, in any case.
See all you WCR attendees soon!
Just when you think you're caught up, a newly made friend asks if you can help with some quick fabrication work - if installing an intercooler turns out to be quick! But hey, it's a friend so how could I resist?
And this one is nice! Merkur turbo 4-cyl engine, T5, live rear axle, cool wheels...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Getting all prettied-up for WCR. Miller Powder Coating in Rohnert Park came through as promised with an on-time delivery! If you're able to, please use them - great vendor.
And I have to say, getting parts into final finish totally transforms things for me. I've been looking at raw or temp primered parts for years and to see items "finished"... well, I'm loving how it's turning out.
Note I haven't fully set the eyebrows nor added carpet so things will continue to improve from here.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good Chris!!
Bitchin!
Too cool for school Chris!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert will be riding with me at WCR and he insisted that "no carpet just won't do!". So he stopped and picked up some floor covering - perfectly colored! Robert took charge and I just sat and watched as he measured and cut. Minutes later and I have a GREAT looking passenger floor!
What a difference... I need to be careful this thing doesn't get too nice to drive!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Another detail no one will notice: The hood vent vane height is graduated. Each is shorter by the same amount, moving front to back. This to echo the way the difference in height changes between the hood and fender as things move toward the back of the car.
Am I too into this sorta crap?
No, I don't think so. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A successful WCR is in the books! The car performed flawlessly. It even won "Best Water Cooled". But I have to say, there were other cars I felt were far more deserving. Far more tastefully done, super clean, beautiful paint, neat custom touches.
I think next year, I'll lobby for a "Best Outlaw/Hot Rod" or "Most Modified" - something that better differentiates the crazier builds like mine, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=626 and @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 .
It was great seeing everyone and all the variety across everyone's cars: narrow bodies, 6-conversions, Subaru conversions, 1.7, 1.8, 2.0 - then there's @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=17561 and his lifted, WRX build. It's my new favorite car!
Plus, as a super added bonus, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3573 showed up and I FINALLY got to meet him in person after all these years. I can check that off my bucket list!
Anyway, if you haven't attended your regional 914World event, I encourage you to do so. This was my 3rd WCR, but first with a car. They are great either way. See old friends, make new ones, geek out on 914s... What more could a person want?
Now, back to the build...
Evil laugh? Dang bro! It was great to meet you and see the build first hand.
Boring but... Transmission out and headed back to CMS to correct the "goes into the reverse lane too easily" issue. Should be back soon.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 That probably took you 15 minutes to remove. Hope it comes back quick. See you Tuesday right around lunch time.
With the trans out, I'm wrapping up some fab I didn't get done ahead of WCR.
Today it was the fire extinguisher mount. You know me and matchy-match so it's utilizes the same design as the passenger side's ECU cover and passenger foot rest.
It, along with the tunnel console, now head off to get the same matte black powder coat as those other pieces. Re: the console, I'll drill out those temporary pop rivets before it's coated and once it's back, it'll get the fancy CherryMax rivets! Should look pretty good.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Amazing! You need a table of contents for this thread (you could fabricate one!) because I couldn’t find a section where you show the process of making the transmission tunnel. Also, very cool cup holder design for those converting to a different shifter location.
The trans arrived at CMS yesterday. I got a call this morning that it's ready to ship back!
So what was the issue causing it to not have any resistance moving into the neutral "lane"?
Here's the mechanism that's actuated when you move the shifter into each lane. They even took the time to label it for me. You can see how, based on it's shape, it'll force the shift lever to "self-locate" to the 3-4 lane - and now you know how they do that!
Anyway, this little catch had somehow moved out of position and that roller was able to slip off to the side when moving to put it into reverse.
And "while they were in there", they also did an inspection and mentioned that everything still looked perfect.
The car should be back back on the road, in fighting form, in a little over a week.
Attached image(s)
Interesting and cool. One of these times when I come up I would love a ride in your car.
**Non 914 stuff alert**
Ahead of getting the console powder coated, I decided to add another creature comfort by way of a dual USB port. I noodled on hiding it somewhere then figured it should be easy to find/use. Plus with the console going to be black and the cup holders there already, these items will sorta disappear in what @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert calls the "shades of black" around the interior.
Attached thumbnail(s)
FedEx called at 9:00-ish and said the trans was here!
I'm very excited!
I ran down and got it.
I'm very excited!
Unloaded and uncrated.
Oh, it's just as beautiful as I remembered. And I gave the "lane selector" a quick test - it's fixed! I'm so excited!
I bolted on the mounts.
Did I say how excited I was? Well, I was very excited!
I wrestle it under the car and with a bit of grunting and swearing, it's back in the car!
Man, am I excited!
So excited that I snap a few pics and text them to a @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 Mark, and a couple other buddies, bragging about how fast I am and that I should be a Le Mans mechanic. Boy, was I excited!!!
Then as I'm going to install the clutch slave cylinder, I look across the back of the car and see the throw-out bearing and actuator arm, sitting there on the fixturing table...
I was suddenly not as excited as I'd previously been.
Out comes the trans, in goes the throw-out assembly and back in it all goes. And out the window goes my career as a Le Mans pit crew member.
That's funny. When we raced Chevrolets, we would end up pulling the engines and giving them a refresh monthly. Many times I did the same thing as we worked to get them back together for that weekends racing. But pulling a 4-speed back then was pretty simple.
Back together and on the road again. WOW!
That little transmission part wasn't only impacting the reverse lane. With everything corrected, the shifting is better than ever - and it was good before!
I have to say, this car is really impressing me and I think I've reached a major milestone: Fabrication is complete.
It's been such a long journey and I've had some pretty high expectations for the car along the way. When I first got it on the road, it was so unrefined that I reallly didn't like it and was quite disappointed. Hence the "maybe I'll sell it" phase.
But I got past that and each of the many "get it running then take it apart and change things" stages I've put it through have made significant improvements in drivability and overall civility. I actually think I'm done with fabrication mods. All that's left to do:
- open up the inner fenders to improve in-town air flow
- add an oil cooler
- add a trans cooler (and this is still a maybe)
Then, I think it's ready to be blown apart for paint. I've narrowed the color down to three options but think I'll save revealing the final choice until it's painted.
actual bucket list = ride
I have ideas for your paint! LOL. Yeah? The new unsaturated colors are cool that you see Toyota using a lot. Hmm. That car needs to not be blingy, so my only request is don't make it too shiny. It must sleep.
BIG NEWS! The giant potholes are filled and the speed bump has been removed! 22 years I've been driving over that thing. Crap, I'm going to miss it... literally!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Air volume only increases 20% when hot, so you might not see a difference with bigger exit holes. 25-35 mph is usually when air flow from moving is greater than the fans.
oil cooler is good for 10 degree water temp drop. I run one.
And after a few miles with the re-rebuilt trans? Best shifting trans ever? Well, top 5 anyway. Man, this is such a cool car. It's funny, I walk right past the E9 and hop in the 914 everytime...
And those of you who know me know what that means. Yep, the E9 is "available to buy". I'm not advertising it or putting it on BAT. I just put the word out to a couple folks that if the right price were offered... and, wouldn't you know it, I have a serious buyer coming to see it next week.
You're thinking "What? You just got it back with all the cool stuff done to it!"
Yep, that's true. But as I've said many times, I'm about the journey, not the destination and I can now add "E9" to my life experiences! And if the offer is what I expect it will be, I'll have a bit more room in my head and my garage!
If it doesn't sell, I'll keep chipping away at improving it. I'll keep you posted. In the meantime, if you need me, I'll be all over the Ferrari build!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Exit plan? Somebody has to finish this. I wish it was Chris.
:cheers:
Good to hear. I know it's all on the block at some point, we are just close. And my comfort zone was buzzed.
Right, my bad, ferrari build...
A fun morning at EASY. I met a bunch of new folks and the car got a fair bit of attention. This pic was posted on FaceBook before I even got home - so I swipped it.
Anyway, it's running really well and everything continues to work!
I think I may add an oil cooler w/thermostat as temps seem to creep up when I'm pushing it on warmer days.
And I'm going to chip away at completing the interior.
In other news, I sold the E9. Room in the garage... whatever will I do with that?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Time to select exterior paint color. Current leading candidates:
Slate Gray - I believe this has a slight hint of green. Overall, the color is a subtle but sorta "tough guy" look.
Aubergine (or whatever the pictured 914 is painted) - because Slate Gray is too subtle! And this is a fairly uncommon color but looks good with the matte black hood vents/interior trim and most any wheel color. I go back and forth between doing up my Ronals in bronze or a bit lighter anthracite, swapping to Group 4s...
Anyway, a pretty big decison that isn't easy to "Tygaboy do-over"! So I'll noodle on this a bit longer.
Attached image(s)
My vote is the same color as your BMW( marathon blue?)
Its killer no matter what color you paint it. Totally amazing work coming out of the Red Barn
Bob B
Aubergine is an enticing thought!
Interesting resource for this sort of decision:
https://rennbow.org/colorwiki
FYI
- Tony
With a potential major direction change on the Ferrari build, I moved it to the trailer and got back to work on the LS car. I wanted to see if I could improve the look of the interior panels so gave a go to creating "raised area" grills. As usual, this is proof of concept to get a look that I like.
If you look closely you'll see each one is slightly different. It took a few tries of holding the mesh over a large socket and hammering a slightly smaller one down into the bigger one. I ended up finding a stepped spacer that happened to be the right size so now it's just a matter of making a bunch more and fixing them to the rear of the panel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looks bitchin' Chris.
Continuing on with the interior, I got the console cover pieces back from powder coat this morning and immediately went to work. Major milestone: this marks the first use of the CherryMax structural rivets. These retain a solid steel core and are far stronger in every way than the usual pop rivet. No kill like overkill, as I always say! Yes, it's a detail many will miss, thinking they're plain ol' hardware store rivets... but you'll know how cool they really are!
I just love they way they look against the matte black finish and couldn't be happier with how this piece has turned out. It's one that makes me think "I can't believe I made this."
Attached thumbnail(s)
This looks great! Those little details make the difference.
So...Dang...COOL!
With all the new lovely happening, I had to do something about the fact that the wiring could be seen through the mesh in the footrest panel - see post 4283, above.
I've only sheathed the part of the harness that runs to the fuse panel but as you can see, it totally disappears those wires. Just what you'd expect (not) to see! I'll get the rest finished soon then go after the floor covering.
I'm really enjoying this interior spiff-up effort. It's instant gratification when a freshly finished part gets installed. Plus, it's totally "clean" work, vs that messy ol' fab stuff.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The console and floor panels look so nice they make the dash hard to even look at so I went after making the face panel.
My approach is always to measure as best I can then make a test piece(s) to validate fit. In this case, I didn't have enough material to go all the way across so decided to make it only wide enough to cover all but the glove box area.
I'm quite proud of the fact that I paid enough attention that I accounted for the upper dash fasteners - hence that notch in the upper right.
And yes, this piece is much taller than the factory part that's covered in basket weave because I wanted it to be trapped by the upper and lower dash pads and not risk being able to see an exposed edge.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Test piece, indeed! I figured it'd be a long shot that I'd get the correct fit around the steering column and I was correct. I need to make a couple small updates to get that top shape's reveal to be consistent around the column.
But pretty good, otherwise.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I couldn't resist a quick mock-up, just to get a feel for the look. Note that the panel is raw and looks crappy. It'll get hit with 80 grit on a DA for a nice, consistent finish, then some semi gloss clear to protect it.
As I mentioned long ago, with all the switch gear on the wireless steering wheel panel, I wanted to all as much nothingness to the dash as I could.
I'm loving the look. So much so that I found an early lower dash pad so I can eliminate the dash vents. I'll then extend the aluminum panel all the way out and have even more nothingness!
I couldn't resist a quick mock-up, just to get a feel for the look. Note that the panel is raw and looks crappy. It'll get hit with 80 grit on a DA for a nice, consistent finish, then some semi gloss clear to protect it.
As I mentioned long ago, with all the switch gear on the wireless steering wheel panel, I wanted to add as much nothingness to the dash as I could.
I'm loving the look. So much so that I found an early lower dash pad so I can eliminate the dash vents. I'll then extend the aluminum panel all the way out and have even more nothingness!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good Chris.
The dash and the console look fantastic. I love that smooth dash appearance. It’s like a Porsche concept car. Well of course it is! It’s Chris’ concept
Brilliant stuff Chris.
Almost there with the reveal around the column. A couple more tweaks and I'll call this done. Those scratches just outside the cut is the torch dragging due to my settings being not quite right. The good news is they'll sand out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And here's the full width panel, ready for the early, lower dash pad - hence the view of the panel through the vent locations.
But this is the look I wanted: digital dash, ashtray delete upper pad and nothing on the dash face. Now to work out a finish I like and see if I can incorporate a similar look into the door cards.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looks good Chris! Clean and simple.
How about anodizing the dash panel a colour. A cool blue or get rad with purple or red just ideas.
Chris - your clean dash look is somewhat reminiscent of the 60's era 911 / 912 "brushed" dashes; which had an elegant "911" or "912" insignia added at the far RHS (see pics). Might break up the slab look a little - in a classy way.
You could have a "914" or "914-8" logo perhaps CNC'ed....? As ever, just a thought.
- Tony
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 Tony - great minds! Way back when, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=87 Mike made a "914-6.2" badge for me and I've been debating if it should be Mike's, the Speedster dash "Porsche" badge, ordered yesterday (pic below) or nothing. Maybe I can come up with a way to swap them on and off to suit my mood.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Early, no vent lower dash pad is here and test fit. I LOVE it!!
And what better than an initial test of @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=87 Mike's wonderful badge? Thanks again, Mike!
Note the dash panel hasn't been treated to any sort of finish and in its current state, it doesn't contrast enough with Mike's badge. I think I want to darken the dash panel and leave the badge as is - in raw state.
Regardless, I can't get enough of how things look with the no vent pad. Sharp eyes will notice it's missing that little chrome edge strip. I'm not yet sure how I might address that, or if I can treat that edge and run with out it. So as always, still a way to go. But overall, it's turning out even better than I'd hoped.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That dash & badging look like the dogs bollocks. As the English say.
- Tony
How the sausage is made... Once everything about this dash panel is settled, I'll powder coat the dash frame. I'm posting this pic because a couple folks have indicated they're interested in doing something similar so I wanted to point out one item you'lll likely want to address.
If you want the panel to sit flush against the dash, you have to elimintate all the stampings that are proud of the main surface. That includes the glove box lock stamping, assuming you want to blank that, too.
I used a knock-out punch to remove the raised stamped areas then went back with a hammer and dolly to address any high/low spots to get a good fit.
Don't say I didn't warn you!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I hit the panel with 80 grit on a D/A sander then gave it a coat of hardware store semi-gloss clear. It looks so much more finished and gives a nice, subtle contrast to Mike's badge. I'll run it like this for a while and see if I'm motivated to change the finish.
Attached thumbnail(s)
You can do a brushed aluminum look by going up and down the metal to give it a “grain” with grey scotch brite. another good finish option
On to the door panels where I worked up a couple initial test pieces. And no, they aren't to final size. Just so I can see things in real life to help get me thinking.
How about an upholstered panel with a metal insert?
I have plans that do away with the door latch so don't worry, I didn't forget about that.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Or a metal panel with an upholstered insert? I actually started with this one and adjusted some of the dimensions to cut that panel in the pic above. This one needs a lot of tuning to get it to fit on the door. Plus, as you can see, a few of the dimensions are off - like the lower edge of the opening needs to be lowered to have a consistent relationship with the door bar, but again, it's where I started.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Either one is gorgeous
I forgot about that emblem, it’s been awhile. Car is looking great as usual.
Lookeeen' Gooood
Sure you've thought about it...
More Metal = More Noise?
I like the look of option 1 better, how it follows the roll cage lower bar looks bitchin.
In keeping with the "no kill like overkill" model, I wired up the USB charger so when I need to remove the console cover, I pull out the cup holder, disconnect the seat heater switches and this plug and out comes the cover.
Attached image(s)
And speaking of console cover, I was able to compete everything in the tunnel and install the finished cover.
First, let me credit @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert, who heavily influenced my decision to go with these colors and finishes. Robert kept saying "what you want are 'Shades of Black.'"
Let me just say: pics simply don't do it justice.
All the black sheet metal is the same matte powder coat finish but you can see how it looks different, depending on the viewing angle, if the part is in shadow or not, etc. I like how it compliments/contrasts with the gloss black of the shifter and the tone of the seats.
The silver touches (rivets, grommets, shifter lever, aluminum dash) all play nicely together, too. And I'm really happy the overall raw and mechanical look with the exposed shifter and its related components.
And don't get worked up about the door panel. It's my typical "work in progess". I'll run it like this for a bit and see what I like/don't like about it and adjust from there. It may end up going away in favor of an upholstered panel that same shape, maybe with an RS pleated pattern in there...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Or this dash badge? Does it look too fancy? Mike's seems a better fit for the vibe of the car. Nice that I can just swap them out for one another.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I like the door panels black with no metal panels. Goes with the shades of black idea. Your window cranks give little sparkles of contrast. The metal panels make it a little too busy.
Depressed and with hurt feelings, I headed into the shop for another day's work. Why the mood? @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22428 - First, it's @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 Andy's poo-pooing of my door panel then your derogatory comment about my car's lack of carbon fiber.
"I'll show them!" I thought and went to work!
So I made a set of carbon fiber inner long covers. There. Happy?
Attached thumbnail(s)
OK, OK. You may remember, I made these covers years ago when I thought I might have some exposed carbon trim panels in the car. They've been sitting outside the Red Barn, being rained on, etc. Poor things... Time to put them to use!
I don't think my car has an "exposed carbon" vibe - and I don't want any permanently glued-to-the-chassis carpet. I've never liked the loose look of velcroed-in carpet so I figured I could use adhesive spray to carpet these covers and end up with removeable, rigid carpet panels.
Starting with the passenger side, I trimmed the panel so it'd fit just so and it'd clear the footrest and ECU cover.
Attached thumbnail(s)
A bit of trusty 3M spray adhesive, a bit of tac time and some careful trimming of the material and the first side is in for a test fit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next it was trimming for the door bar verticals. Note the carpet just folds into place on the outside and the cut line all but disappears.
I don't care for the look of the carpet simply trimmed to the bar so I found some suitable rubber grommets, cut them in half and used one side as a rudimentary trim piece. Better than nothing, at least for now. Heck, the door bars aren't even painted! I'll work up something more permanent in the future.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One all but finished, rigid and removable, inner long carpet panel! One down, one to go.
Hey @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22428 - if covering up carbon fiber is good enough for Singer, it's good enough for me, too!
I couldn't be happier with how this interior is shaping up. After all these years of focusing on the mechanicals and getting so used to my car as a rat-rod, seeing things looking "nice" really has an impact. It's like working on a different car!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Seat back in, passenger side mostly done.
Sharp eyes will notice a non-standard interior door handle. It's from a 944. A couple years back, I did a little video about how these work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSK5Zb7EHYI
As you can see, they don't quite fit but I modded this one so it'd bolt on in the correct fore/aft location. Everything works just fine, too! Well, until you put the door card on and realize the whole assembly sits about 1/4" too far outboard and the door card fouls the latch rod juuuuuust enough to keep the latch from being able to lock the door from the inside.
I think I can remedy that.
The attraction to this is:
- it's a Porsche part
- I can get them pretty cheaply as I'm sure to mess one up working out exactly how I need to modify it
- Best of all? The latch almost exactly matches the shape of the door bar!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Can’t believe you covered carbon fiber with carpet
If I had a set of long covers like that there is no way I’d ever be able to cover them. But when it is all said and done, I like it including the grommets ! Well done!
Hope you didn’t take my ribbing seriously. You have an amazing build going on and an eye for design that far surpasses my own creative ability (or lack of).
Playing with maybe running a pedal board to hide all the hydraulics. This is a raw V1 to help me understand fit and develop measurements. Assuming I like it, I'll get it into CAD and plasma cut the panel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Time to focus on some exterior improvements. Today was the initial fit of the air dam. Then it's the fun job of welding the return back onto the bumper. Once that's done, I'll paint the nose black and work out some screen for the opening.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Kinda nice, but for max points the carbon fiber piece needs to be structural.
A busy day at the Red Barn. First, I went after getting the return on the bumper. I clamped the original lower edge return in place, then used a cutoff wheel to slice through both the bumper and the return at the same time. This guarantees the same shape on both pieces and a no-gap weld seam. Then I started fuse tacking the pieces together.
I need to fab the side pieces and final weld everything but couldn't resist seeing it on the car.
Attached thumbnail(s)
But then I got distracted by the interior and decided to work on the door card.
I started with this but immediately didn't like how big that circle seemed. It's the same diameter and the winder but wasn't doing it for me.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Next version: Smaller diameter with some added lightness.
I sent a pic of this to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert. He hates it, saying it's like a girl with a tatoo around her belly button: never a good look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Squint and it's the same with the bottom chopped off. Seems unfinished to me.
Attached thumbnail(s)
What to do? Well, when in doubt, stamp it!
I worked up a quick stamping die. It sure makes a difference.
Note that it's just held on by the screws. In the end, those will be rivets, the top edge will be tucked under the upper rail and the tail will be fllush against the panel. Right now, it's being forced out by the padded upholstery and the stamp, which is why it seems a bit out of alignment. It's not.
It does grab your eye - maybe a bit too much? So the next experiment will be to paint them matte black. That'll change them from what I think is too much of a "color" into a "Shade of Black" component. Assuming I like that, I'll make a pair and have them powder coated the same as the rest of the interior sheet metal.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Amazing work. As I saw the versions of the door card progressing, I kept thinking, powder coating in the color of the other parts would pull it together well. Interior is shaping up into something truly special.
That last version looks good. I think it would look better if there wasn't a "tab" above the window winder at 12 o'clock. Can't wait to see the aerosol black version.
This build is a class act
This is looking very good in my humble option. One thing that might be really cool, is to have the recessed area in a different texture like RS wheel. It's the difference between polished and glass beaded finish but then bk anodized
I have a top slide on a 45 ACP that is a combination of polished and glass beaded and then blued/blacked or whatever they do on steel. It looks very cool. Very subtle but really very cool and above all super clean.
I am really liking it.
Best to you bud,
Bob B. Burton
That looks soooo good!
I've been watching too many of those hot rod shows that also show the upholstery process and convinced myself that "if they can do it, I can do it!" Granted, this is pretty simple, but that's always a good place to start.
My door cards are done in a horrible carbon fiber-look vinyl so I figured no harm in sacrificing them to a learning opportunity.
I wanted to see if I could get a nice "sunken-look" panel so I cut a shape that follows the door bars and avoids the window winder. I also worked out the latch location. I want to update the latches to something else but I've not finalized that so went with stock for now. Anyway, I laid the panel on the door card and trimmed in about 1/2" from the edge.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then I fitted the panel under the vinyl and using it as a guide, cut the foam to the exact shape of the panel.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Then it's a simple matter of riveting the panel to the door. I used rivet washers on the back side to spread the load and prevent the rivet pulling through the wooden card.
I didn't have enough of the proper length rivets, but you get the idea.
It turned out pretty well, IMO. Certainly not bad for a first go.
Attached thumbnail(s)
In the car.
As before, I think this will end up being a shape stitched into the door panel, rather than a metal panel. But I'll probably get these powder coated in the same matte black as the other interior sheet metal, just to see if I like that look. Maybe stamp them, too?
And yes, the visual gap from the panel edge to the door bar gets bigger once it starts to climb more steeply at the rear. I did that on purpose because I like that there's a bit of a change in the negative space at that point. To me, that's more visually interesting.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, that interior is getting be next level. As always super impressed.
Here you go flip flopping things again! What color will the roll cage be?
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=87 - Mike, thanks much for the compliment. I have to say, I'm really liking how the interior is coming together and it's always nice to hear others find it attractive, too!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 - Andy, I'm thinking the cage bars will be gloss black to pick up the same tone/texture as the shifter base. Then I'd apply some clear film to prevent scuffing. Or, I do the bars in matte black and apply gloss black protecters - that could work, too. So I guess the answer is "I haven't decided"!
BUT, on a different decision front, the leading and likely winning exterior color choice is...
Brewster Green
I saw it on a new 718 Spyder this morning and it's a winner, for sure. Looks wonderful with bronze or gold-tone wheels, which is also where I'm headed. And it works well with the matte black hood vents, etc.
Thanks to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2058 Pete for turning me on to this color in the first place.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Oh hell yeah! That is a beautiful color and with the flares it is going to show very nicely.
god dang it i love this car.
After much behind the scenes head scrathing, design, prototyping and testing, I chucked it all, bit the bullet and forced myself to overcome the few items preventing me from being happy with the 944 latches.
It turns out that to make them work:
1. they sit too far out from the door so part of the rear of the latch base needs to be cut away
2. new mounting holes must be drilled in the door
3. when you pull the lever to open the door, the stock rod retainer clip fouls on the rear of the latch handle so a new rod retainer solution is required
#s 1 and 2 are pretty straight forward. For #3, I opted to drill a small hole in the rod end (see pic) then snipped the end loop off of a small spring. Once the rod is passed through the latch, I wound the spring end through the hole. Done and done.
Attached image(s)
I had a spare door that I used to prove out the position of the latch. It's important because, as I covered in earlier posts, the 944 latch locks, unlocks and opens the door, all with the single lever. Mounted too far forward, the door won't lock. Too far back and it won't open. There's a vary narrow "sweet spot" where everything works.
Anyway, when the door is locked, the lever sits flush with the bezel. When the door is unlocked, it sticks out a bit. I actually kinda like it: you get in the car, close the door and push the lever flush and the door is locked. Just pull the lever in a totally natural way and the door unlocks then opens. Plus, it echoes the door bar angle. Pretty happy coincidence.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the latch in unlocked position.
But boy, the center area of that window winder sure looks boring, don't you think?
Attached thumbnail(s)
A few years ago, I was helping a buddy clean up his shop and he was tossing a bunch of aged-out motorcycle helmets. I noticed the visor fasteners on one of them and thought, "Those are cool looking. I'm going to save those, just in case I find a use for them..."
After staring at these doors for the past week, I remembered I had them!
It's only double-sided taped on but you get the idea. What I'll do is remove that inner step then machine a trench in the face and sink this into the winder. Makes a huge difference, IMO.
It's the little things.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That's just damn sexy....
Those door cards look sweet. Everything is tasteful.
Chris Porsche should hire you
Thanks to all for the compliments. Again, it's nice - and humbling - to hear that others find my design direction attractive.
Time to get after finishing up the winders:
- work out getting them in the lathe (yes, the knob was removed prior to spin)
- use a parting tool clocked at 90 degrees to carve the "trench"
- glue in the helmet visor trim ring
- drop the fastener in, just to see how it'll look (yes, the knob is on the wrong side, just to hold the handle for the pic)
Yet another example of spending a LOT of time on a small detail.
And it turned out just as I'd hoped!
I wonder if there'd be a market for these?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
That looks terrific Chris.
The winders just didn't look finished. So let's cap them off with... a cap!
These press in and capture the fastener, hence the hole. I'm claiming it's just another dimple
Version II of these trim pieces will likely be an all-in-one trim ring/cap that has the fastener built onto it. The dimples will actually be the receptacles for a small pin wrench for installation and removal. There won't be a center hole or that seam around the cap. THAT will be really stealthy!
But these'll do for now.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I realize that it's probably not really "your thing", but I really feel like you have fabricated several items recently that you could easily sell as aftermarket items...specifically, those window cranks, that passenger foot rest, and that center tunnel cover....all really works of art. I've only seen one aftermarket crank I like as much as yours, and the vendor wants $150 a set. Anyhow......great thread...awesome 914!
Man those are works of art Chris!!!!
Outstanding work as always. Were my car more of a hot rod look those would be in my car hands down. Beautiful work.
The pair done!
Note the dimple rings aren't yet glued in so neither is clocked in its final positon, hence the dimples aren't aligned to anything.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Reminder to self: Next time, don't wait so long to service the plasma table. Holy moley, I really dropped the ball on this...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Window cranks installed. I'm happy with how these turned out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's a close up of the completed assembly with the optional, softer-edged knob. I think it looks more finished and is better in keeping with the look I want.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I wish the stock window cranks were that well made.
Those cranks look really nice - if the price is decent I'd be tempted to snag a few pair. Hell, I bet old-school VW guys - both air-cooled and water-cooled - would find these attractive.
Took the LS car to Sears Poi... er, Sonoma Raceway for a VALT/Haggerty Cars & Coffee.
A recently made friend brings his Daytona! Once-in-a-lifetime experience that again proves "it's not what, but WHO, you know."
Such an incredible piece of design... the Daytona, I mean!
Attached thumbnail(s)
The end of an era: I've had more than a couple folks comment things like "you do all this work without a lift?" and mention how much easier/better it'd be if I had one.
I'm not willing to sacrifice my "clear span shop life" but I did finally give in.
Merry Christmas to my back and knees!
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Chris you are going to love not having to get down on your knees or sitting on your rear to work on projects. Great purchase.
You don't need any of any of that. Bro, keep doing.
Merry, merry from the Red Barn! As we wrap up the year, can I just say how much I appreciate this community and each of its wacky and wonderful members?
And a quick heads up that 2023 will see the launch of "At The Red Barn", a bit more polished effort at a YouTube channel.
I've found I really enjoy the creative process of video-making. As with the other stuff you've seen me try and learn, the early stuff will likely be a bit bumpy, but I expect I'll get better as I go along.
If you've enjoyed my 914 World threads, I'm pretty sure you'll like what you see on At The Red Barn, too.
I'll post a link to the channel as soon as it's operational. Hope to hear from you there!
A safe and happy holiday to you and yours!
Attached thumbnail(s)
OK, "At The Red Barn" is live on YouTube!
Here are links to a quick intro and the first two episodes of the 914 Ferrari build.
Hope you enjoy and if you do, please subscribe, like and share?
Feel free to add comments and ask questions there, too.
Intro to At The Red Barn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP3GYAFsJmo
914 Ferrari Episode 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMj1Bq2IShw
914 Ferrari Episode 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAdV6dRyxfc
Very cool and glad you are sharing your work on a larger platform- people need to see this stuff.
With all the focus on the 914 Ferrari, I was feeling a bit guilty that I'd been neglecting the build that really started it all for me. So I treated the little beastie to a drive. Well, really, it treated me to a drive!
Just a quick errand to Martin's to drop off something. As I was walking back to the car, I thought "Man, that looks cool!" and had to take a pic.
A bit rough around the edges with any number of flaws, but it's out there, mixing it up!
Like car, like owner.
Happy New Year, all!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good Chris!! On the road is better than most everyone else!
I think she looks great Chris! I'm a function over form guy, always knowing that my projects will always be improving in small ways and I like this look. Finished in many ways and well done. Happy New Year!
Happy New Years to you Chris. Even in it's rough form it will garner more attention than the $100K super cars! Enjoyment is the operative word here!
For anyone who hasn't followed this build and isn't interested in reading from the start, here's a review of how the cars sits today. Plus, if you didn't see the "Randy Pobst drove my car" post, that's in here, too.
Callouts to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=16100 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=209 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3031
Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpTBxXh1KpM
Awesome build and great video! So glad I got to visit the Red Barn, meet you and see it in person. Looking forward to next time
With the car being accepted to display at Luft 9, I figured I'd better tidy up a few things. I finally repaired the carbon fiber longitudinal skin, trimmed it to fit and glued on the carpet. On to the driver's floor.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Easily removable: carpet covered carbon fiber cover panel installed.
You can also see I got the 944 Turbo inner door handle installed in the driver's door. It works a treat!
Attached thumbnail(s)
My understanding is Saturday the 29th is air-cooled day and Sunday is air and water cooled.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15191 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 In my submittal to Luft, I called out "LS powered" and included a pic of the engine compartment and even mentioned "maybe for Sunday?".
Their reply was essentially, "see you on Saturday". Hope no one is surprised when I show up!
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 Hi Chris - Sorry for the confusion; I was by no means inferring you were not welcome on Saturday. I was talking to sb914. I look forward to seeing you on the 29th- hopefully parked next to us.
That’s awesome Chris! Stoked your in.
Take lots of pictures!
A bit of composite repair work on the driver side carbon fiber long panel then I cover it with carpet. Hidden carbon fiber. Just one more thing my car has in common with a Singer. No wonder it got accepted for Luft!
Hope you enjoy the jazzy music vibe during the time-lapse segments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Jdah07Itc
Randy Pobst replied to a question @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=626 Dan / Andrew posted on my video of Randy driving my LS car.
Gotta say, it's pretty gratifying when a pro racer says nice things about your build.
Attached image(s)
Getting this thing "ready" for Luft is like putting a band-aid on a bullet hole.
The car isn't even painted, but hey, it's now got carpeting under the seats!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looks nice.
So custom and wonderfully finished. Looks like Porsche would've built a one-off that was fabricated to that level.... except, of course, for the Chevy engine midship.
As clean as I have ever seen!
I cannot say enough about your level of work. True art in many materials.
Congratulations on keeping up with this ultra-high level of work.
Bob B Burton
One last thing I may be able to complete for Luft: rough fitting a simple set of boxed rockers. My brake can't do a piece this long so I spec'd it and Van Bebber Bros, my local metal supply place, bent up the aluminum for me.
I'll trim them to length then add returns that match the shape of the return on the flares.
I think it's cool, the way they came with purple arrows already painted on them. Seems pretty "full race" looking to me!
Attached thumbnail(s)
The rear is closed off and all but finished.
Attached image(s)
Playing with how I might close the front. The very bottom of the flare and the return will be tuned to tidy up how they look with the rocker covers in place.
Attached image(s)
Almost there on the first side. The car will be sporting at least one cover for Luft!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Everything wrapped up and treated to a little SEM Trim Black. Well, the first side, anyway.
I think they look pretty good from most angles. If there's a V2, I'll go with a very slightly rolled face (like the factory covers) and slightly larger corner radii - even though these are essentially the same as the factory corners.
What I didn't take in to consideration is that with the stock covers, you can't really see the upper radius since it tucks in under the door a bit. Plus, they angle inward more steeply than mine. making my lower radius appear sharper than the factory piece.
Just more lessons learned on the never ending journey that is this build.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Man - amazing build for sure.
I'm about to dive in - hopefully picking up a rust free '72 shell+ in a few weeks. I am definitely using your build as a reference!
And if you still have those spacers to move the engine and trans forward, I might be interested
Cheers!
Ian
Luft 9, April 29, 2023. Matt Farah and his "The Smoking Tire" podcast picks my car as his "favorite so far". Are you f-ing kidding me... Worth watching the whole thing but the section mentioning my car starts about 1:03:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqMRJPrzDQ0
Attached thumbnail(s)
Congratulations Chris. Well deserved recognition. Your work is top-flight and the overall car just speaks to doing it right.
And now, the LS car gets a spot in an on-line Road & Track article on Luft 9. My 15 minutes really seems like it's getting closer to 17...
https://www.roadandtrack.com/photos/g43783092/luftgekuhlt-9-full-image-gallery/?fbclid=IwAR0Cy1tS0_zowGO9UGdkjm0HXZ0kLPbK0rbXhyEKyIePnHtiAD5OVH8gbWA
Attached thumbnail(s)
well deserved Chris!!
The latest LS car video is up. I prep for Luft 9, go to the show, and forget to get any footage of the event! You don't want to miss this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6PDU4Fc970
Forget Luft. Everyone knows the people we REALLY need/want to impress are the folks who're headed to WCR in a couple weeks!
That pressure means I need to be sure the LS car is looking its best. So, a quick viewing of @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18749 Ian's "How to Restore the Dashboard" YouTube instructional video and my dash is looking pretty nice. Big thanks, Ian!
And another shout out "Thanks!" to @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert for directing me to JoAnn's Fabrics where I picked up the foam pad and lovely vinyl. ~$25 and, wow. So. Much. Better!
Gotta say, it's the people on this site that make all the difference! Thanks guys.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking good Chris!
Chris.....that's one clean windshield! WOW!
Nice! Glad the video helped. And getting high from the glue is an added bonus!
WCR 2023 is in the books. Awesome location, fun times, the best people... And the car worked wonderfully!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I stopped at my tuner's on the way up. AutoTrend EFI in Diamond Springs, CA. Dave Erlich is a great guy... I wanted to tweak the pedal action to slow down the off-idle response that I'd previously sped up. That took 2 seconds. Then we went out for some on-the-road tuning. I was mostly after any improvements he could make to driveability and, most importantly, fuel economy. I'd been getting like 12 mpg. Note the base maps in the Holley ECUs aren't set up to maximize economy. So after a bit of magic, the first time I checked, I got 20 mpg. So a big improvement. And overall, it's a much more pleasant driver.
While I was getting the tune updated, I just happened to mention that I was having issues getting the stock 914 fuel sensor to communicate accurately with the Holley dash. Dave says "have you seen this?"
It's a LIDAR sending unit! No moving parts, communicates directly with the Holley dash, is programmable and, wait for it, is a DIRECT bolt-on to the 914 tank!
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised that the Porsche sensor bolt pattern is a standard SAE 5-bolt mounting pattern but I wasn't expecting it to be this simple.
Apparently, these Holley sensors won't work with a gauge that needs a standard ohm signal but maybe you SpeedHut fans could leverage this. Not sure... But it should work a treat for my application.
(Note the pics are just test fitting it to a crappy tank I had laying around.)
Attached image(s)
Some mods to the wiring, a bit of setup/configuration and I have a zoomy, high-tech LIDAR fuel level sensor. It turned out nice and tidy. And IMO, it's consistent with the look of the other fuel tank mods - a better visual fit than the stock sensor.
Attached image(s)
How fortuitous……that’s awesome!
I suffered an inner CV boot failure. Interesting given the whole "moved the drive train forward to reduce axle angle..." But the failed boot didn't show any signs of abrasion and the one on the other side looks fine. Yes, I'll replace that side, too. Just not today!
In any case, I worked with McKenzie's Performance in SoCal and upgraded to a system that stands up to off-road abuse. The boot is totally different and seems more pliable than the factory item. Should be overkill for my use but when's that ever stopped me?
Anyway, here's the not-yet-failed factory set up:
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the zippy, cool new set up. And no, I haven't yet cleaned up the spewed grease.
A couple things: The large side of the boot now slips over an upgraded CV flange plate that's a nice machined piece vs the factory stamped one.
And the recommendation is to leave the clamp/zip tie off the inner/small side so the boot can slip and slide as needed and not add stress to the boot. The parts look cool, too!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Good catch and a nice upgrade.
Ferrari meets 914, again! I decided I didn't like the trunk release button so started noodling on options. My car had a 911 reflector when I got it so I have the solenoid mount. I wouldn't be the first to work up a cable release, but - and I know you'll find this shocking - I wanted something unique in terms of a release system.
Ferrari 360 parts to the rescue!
A little head scratching about placement, a bit of clearance work and... one "in-the-door-sill" release latch!
Cool thing is with the door closed/locked, it's secure.
No, the cover isn't riveted on yet, just set in place.
Frosting on the cake will be I'll remove the Ferrari graphic and get one that's a 914 silhouette with the trunk opened in reverse, to match what my car actually does.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris - seems every new detail is my new FAVORITE detail!
Keep it up!!!!
I really like that trunk release! I have never seen that done before. Truely a one of a kind 914.
That looks awesome! You have a great eye my friend!
Yet another trick up your sleeve
Well done and useful !
Very clean!
That is totally "Red Barned". Trying to come up with a phrase for something that has been so well thought out and executed we all go, "Why didn't the factory do that?".
As usual Chris, you turn out amazing stuff. I don't know if I've told you that before. But I really respect your work.
Best Bob B
Nice!!
Your car and ideas are my inspiration/motivation.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7784 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=2104 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=23905 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=487 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=22428 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7414 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11529 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 Wow, thanks for all the wonderful compliments. I'm humbled when all you other very capable folks say such nice things about my build...
So back to it:
I fabbed a little plate that fastens to the base of the solenoid mount and locates the cable guide. It's pointed a bit backward as I plan to route the cable through the same holes/path as the tail light harness.
I've sourced a cable and hope to have this ready to go tomorrow.
Attached image(s)
I did something very similar, make sure you make a cover plate for the mechanism in the trunk! Mine is currently stuck closed because a camp chair shifted while driving and has blocked the lever arm from being pulled down to release the catch...
Also where are you running the cable to? I 3D printed a copy of the OEM engine cover knob and placed it right above said knob in the cab. Let me know if you want those files?
*EDIT* Just went back a page to catch up and saw the slick little release lever you found. Sweet!
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=332291&hl=
Delete
Super slick!
And for those interested, here's the whole project, including another example of why it's important to "Measure twice, cut once".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alr_AWY9B9I
With the new latch, I have no need for the trunk button. That means I need to work up a new rear panel. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert happened to stop in and we got to talking about it. He offered his usual great suggestions about style and I decided to strike while the iron was hot and get after finishing this part of the latch upgrade project.
First up was: Which sort of material? I had been running some engine grill mesh but it was very two-dimensional, even if it did match the lid. Robert had previously brought by some perforated AL (with round holes) and I had some finer hex mesh laying around.
Let's start the mock up and head scratching on which I prefer...
Attached thumbnail(s)
I decided I like the "lighter" and more see-through look of the hex mesh. Time to get to work on adding some style points in the form of embossing the mesh so it pushes through the panel vs just laying flat behind it.
I tested it by clamping the old panel to the bench and just hammering the mesh along the edge of the opening. It worked a treat! Then a quick test fit in the car to verify I still like this idea.
I do! This looks so much better and give things a much more sophisticated feel. It's subtle, but you notice it.
Attached thumbnail(s)
The it was off to the plasma table to cut a new panel - this time in aluminum. Along with eliminating the button, I decided to narrow the center band because, why not?
2nd pic shows the embossing. Yep, this is the way forward!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Work up the other side's mesh, a lick of SEM trim black and some rivets and...
Super cool new rear panel complete. Yes, you can see the latch panel and yes, you could stick a screw driver through the mesh and open the trunk. So next on the list is adding a blacked out "block off" panel to address that.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Before and after. It's AFTER FOR THE WIN!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That looks great.
That looks very nice -
I also fabbed and welded on a latch bracket. This "add a latch, delete a button" project was a fairly quick little project but what a difference. It's an update that I think is a far better match to the vibe of the build. I'm really happy with this one.
Attached image(s)
Very nice! All the little details are adding up to be quite a unique one of a kind 914...
Hmmm...
Here, hold my beer. I gots me a idea!
Attached thumbnail(s)
What are you up to now??
Very reminiscent of a '70s style Edelbrock Tarantula intake I ran on a hyped LT1 small block
A little port injection with the throttle body for a MAF for some further style points?
Nothing to see here folks, move along…..
The details are amazing Chris. The tail panel is awesome.
“Red Barned” I like it Michael.
Chris needs to make stickers, shirts & hats!
A single plane should work nice, and look nice too. Reminds me of the 70’s and the dodge engines I used to see.
wow sir Chris! your project keeps getting better and better and every day there is something unique you are doing for your 914-LS.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdm-pce148-1055?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk-zgtOq7gAMVkhtlCh3alw8oEAQYBiABEgJ7efD_BwE
Cross ram ITB is what I'd install if I had that car.
Sadly, to really use that intake you need BIG compression, BIG cam, and BIG exhaust.
You've got the exhaust handled already.
And that car is probably a handful with 430 hp.
It would be SO MUCH worse with 600...
Your mods are world class.
The trunk latch looks like Porsche should have done that from the start.
Yep, lots of low-speed bullshit. Hard to tune below 1500 rpm.
Howls like a demon from hell above 4K.
Needs bad-assed exhaust system.
Your exhaust is one of the nicest I've seen!
12-1 and 280@.050 are really a requirement for stuff like that.
That little stubby set up you have looks great! Fits better than the taller x-ram.
I bet throttle response was so fast that easing away from a stop sign was difficult.
I commonly apply a progressive throttle linkage, so I don't end up pissing people off with "exhibitions of acceleration" from every stop.
This video will formally drop on my channel Saturday morning but I figured some of you would like a sneak peek. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3adw-24Q7LM
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - Great! I am so looking forward to that.
Well, that didn't last long. I needed to work up a block off panel so off things come. I made the panel and opted to use panel bond to install it. This meant I could fully finish and paint it and install it with no additional work required. Smooth and tidy install, no welds to dress, etc.
And it does what I wanted: helps hide the latch support and prevents anyone getting at the latch from outside the car.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert saw the most recent version and essentially said "Cool, but those silver rivets..." They were always just temporary but when Robert (my style consultant) speaks, I simply have to take action! So black rivets it is. Yep, they're certainly a better fit for the vibe of the build.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Having always used the trunk button and lifted the lid directly, I didn't notice that the geometry and/or friction introduced by the reverse-open lid catches is juuuuuuust different enough that the factory trunk release spring was occassionally not pushing the lid open enough - and I had to go back and pull the release again.
A quick measurement of the factory spring and an order with McMaster-Carr and I have a bit beefier spring. I did end up shortening it a couple coils and adding a bit of heat to get the new end to lay flat. But all's well now and the lid pops right up.
Attached image(s)
The blacked out block-off panel all but disappears and the black rivets look SO much better. A particular word popped into my head when I stepped back for a first look. I sent a pic to Robert and he replied with the same word:
"Sinister"
Perfect for the look I'm after.
Attached thumbnail(s)
One final touch: The spring is a bit stiffer and I was worried the factory's plastic hat may not be happy about that, at least over the long haul. So, without a lathe handy, I asked Martin to whip up a beefier hat. This is in delrin so no galvanic reaction, no rust and no squeaking! It's a bit thicker in the areas that take the load but overall, retains the proper geometry and spacing for the latch spear.
Looks cool, too.
If anyone's interested in a stiffer spring and matching delrin hat, let me know. There may be a run of them, if there's enough interest. Note the hat works with the stock spring, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
For you non-subscribers who may be interested in additional details on this latest do-over. Take a look, learn a little about panel bonding and leave me a like/comment?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz02unvQqC0
I just am a huge fan of Chris' work. He must lay awake at night thinking of how to make stuff better; he does it and videos it so we can all learn.
After unboxing the Ferrari shifter, the LS car seems a bit mundane. But...
Today was starting in on the new intake set up. As soon as I got it in place, I hated it and called to get return paperwork. It's a hard pass for me.
Yes, I could probably come up with an airbox that hides most of the boring horribleness, but I'm not even going to try.
But fear not! I have an even stupider idea for an intake that is far more costly and time consuming!
Yes, I'm serious. Parts were ordered today.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Looking forward to the next option; I completely agree on the hard pass on that one.
Can't mess with the intake without messing with the exhaust. I've wanted to do a symmetrical exhaust so figured now was as good a time as any.
This is an inital mock up with some mufflers I had from an earlier version exhaust that just happen to bolt to the existing muffler bracket in a different orientation. I may use them, I may not.
In the end, I want the trans to be visible.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Coming along. The goal is to have this exhaust wrapped up in time for this Saturday's EASY meet. I'm waiting on the new mufflers and a couple mandrel bends. FedEx shows they arrive tommorrow. Fingers crossed...
Attached thumbnail(s)
Chris, have you looked into any alum sheet metal style intake manifolds (plenums)? Wilson has a decent product for most of the late v8 Detroit engines.
This Wilson "Flying mailbox" is 1 of 12 made for LBP Cayenne race engines. Wilson aftermarket units do have lower profiles for the LS, Coyote, Mopar engines , so you can still see out your back window !
See you at 000 in September
Martin and I made a day of progress on the exhaust. This part was the trickiest as it's a complicated set of joints where everything has to end up in EXACTLY the right place. It's a sorta X-pipe/merge/crossover that happens on a sloped AND tilted radius.
Of course it does because: Style Points!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Credit to Martin for coming up with the all the fixturing that helped simplify getting everything fit. There's the simple part: a flat plate bolted to the transmission mount. It served as the floor to set the height of the assembly, and it sports the centerline.
Then there's that wacky piece of scrap that we magneted in place and marked to give us targets for the piece as it was being cut and test fit.
Attached thumbnail(s)
You know you have a good fit when the piece just sits there with no support and no tacks. No, I'm not kidding.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Credit again to Martin for the fit he got on the "kiss", as we came to call it. This is the bottom - the side we couldn't see when it was being cut and fit. He's a remarkable fabricator...
Attached thumbnail(s)
And we finished the day with a rough cut of the ends. This is where the tubes get the other 1/2 of an S-bend and start heading straight back to the muffler inlets.
In all, a very productive day and I couldn't be happier with how this is turning out.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very nice……I can appreciate how difficult this was to get that fine of a fit!
Amazing work.
Necessity is a mother, all right! One for the tool whores.
Getting accurate mid-radius cuts really makes a big difference to how tidy the finished product looks. So we ended up making a couple different "scribe exactly to the center line" tools. Both are just a plate with two pins.
The big one (pins on the outside of the raduis) works on pretty much any size tube. Pins contact the tube and you mark in the slot. Note the pins can be moved to different locations to better fit various radii tubes.
The little one works from the inside of the radius. Pins contact and you mark for the cut on the outside edge. They work a treat.
Attached thumbnail(s)
...then the other.
Yes, I know. I should just call it done and run them like this!
Attached thumbnail(s)
All that work and with the reverse-open trunk lid, you can't see it from this angle.
Now for the mufflers.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Exhaust porn!
Beautiful work!
The first muffler in mock-up. It'll sit a bit higher and more forward but this gives you the basic idea.
Tomorrow morning's video drop covers getting this version to what you see here. I'll post the link in this thread.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Here's the latest iteration of the the latest update. No, it won't ever end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpIo6-XdMIw
Pics of progress for those who simply can't wait until the next video is released.
Attached thumbnail(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=121 Dave - I hope this level of visibility meets with your approval.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Other side fitting underway. @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=172 Andrew - Sorry, upright is always better!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Heat shielding for trans?
This is the best one yet!
Videos are getting better and better!
Love this project!
The car is leveled and the passenger side muffler is set to the same position as the driver side. As you can see by the gap in that last 90 degree tube, I'm nearly there. One final trimming and it'll be good to go.
Couldn't resist a pic of things at this stage of completion. I should have it all wrapped up, including the exits, in the next post.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Ready for final welding and some exhaust tips. Nearly there.
Attached thumbnail(s)
I sent you a PM.
Best Bob B
sorry doubble post
Martin was At The Red Barn today and we focused on getting the exhaust tips fitted and final welded.
They haven't been trimmed to length but I'm super happy with this new exhaust. It met the targeted goals:
- symmetry that pleases my eye? Check
- mufflers all but invisible? Check
- transmission totally visible? Check
I did want the center exit exhaust but this one has it's own sort of style points. Less elegant, more brutish, which certainly fits the build. It's not as "Porsche" as a center exit but it does a lot to add to the "that is a wide 914!" look.
On to the next thing I decide to do!
Attached thumbnail(s)
And the latest video to get you current on the exhaust fab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88CoEduwtGM
I love the look and can't wait to see the finish length of the tips as well as hear it run.
You could add exhaust cut outs before the X and have the cut out exits in the center...
You've got plenty of room.
It would be LOUD!
Your mounts are very well designed. They look like they should work fine. Very tidy.
I'd add some type of expansion connection to both sides before the X section.
Might be as simple as slip tubes and springs or true flex sections on v-bands.
I think the temperature swings that the system will go through will over stress that x section and it will fail without some type of stress relief.
Sure looks pretty like it sits...
Edit: Love the new intake. On the LARGE size!
You need a built motor to go along with that!
13:1 with nearly 300 degrees of duration.
600+HP will be attainable through that intake.
You just don't have a car that can apply that power to the ground.
Car will need to weight 4K plus to make that work well.
You're designing a tire destroying apparatus...
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=179 @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=20897 - Hey, guys, you know I'm all about METAL!
Speaking of which, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3898 Robert stopped by yesterday and poo-poo'd my initial rear mount. Constructive critisism is great because if forces me back to the design board and (IMO) I invariably come up with something I like more. In this case, it's a folded sheet metal bracket that has WAY more style points. Me likee! Plus, I'll maybe back it up with some mesh, like on the rear panel.
Thanks Robert!
Attached thumbnail(s)
That's a bunch stronger as well!
Rear mount fully welded, including a set of underside gussets.
Martin was by today and we noodled out a design for the exhaust tip hangers. He's back to his shop (lathe and mill, which I don't have) to whip up the needed parts.
Attached thumbnail(s)
This one is a bit different. You've heard me mention Martin and all the help he's been on my builds. Here's a bit of an intro and a peek into his background. Talk about a man with passion and skills!
And if you're at all into slot cars, this is a must see! Plus, you'll get a teaser about an episode on his experience designing/building ProStock drag bikes. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1imXSqo7dw
That just transported me back to the late 60's when we would go to the Slot Car Track in San Leandro on East 14th Street everyday and race our cars.
Back to the exhaust and it's all done but the outside hangers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGtX3jBaRro
Sweet. I can't wait to see the final tip length and hear it run.
Embarking on another "I wonder if this will work" project. These are Nash Metropolitan doors, one of which I cut up. Will it work out? Place your bets now!
Attached thumbnail(s)
For whatever reason, as I was moving the doors, I noticed the shape and thought, "I wonder if I could use that as the center section of a rear valance?"
It'll take some work, but I think I can. Sort of diffuser-like and a pretty neat shape.
I'd love to be able to say I used part of a '59 Metro on my build.
We'll see how this goes.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Back to necessary things. Here's the outboard muffler support in place. Not too noticable from the engine compartment side and totally invisible from the rear.
Yes, it's single-shear but the other end is mounted in pretty pliable rubber so I'm not worried.
Attached image(s)
I like where that is headed.
The second I saw the metal from the Metro doors I knew what it was. I had a buddy that had a metro way back. Great idea for the rear valance. Dual out flared valance it's going to be nice. You know the thing is, you do your best to design an exhaust and until it cycles through high heat and cools a number of times you are not 100% sure what it is going to do.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=27135 Rick had men mentioned
“I'd add some type of expansion connection to both sides before the X section.
Might be as simple as slip tubes and springs or true flex sections on v-bands.
I think the temperature swings that the system will go through will over stress that x section and it will fail without some type of stress relief.”
--- I had thought it may need some kind of Bellows because I remember what my 74 turbo 2.0 did after running it around very hard and the exhaust was glowing red and would bend a bit.I did have bellows on its SS custom system. ---
I guess if it has a problem in road testing it you will just rework it.
Anyway, your ideas as a designer and fabricator are fantastic and your work is as good as anything I have ever seen.
Best Bob B
A quick errand this morning with everything done, including tips trimmed to length. I'd swear it's quieter, too.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Can we see a full-on side shot please? To my eye (and it could be the angle) they look a tiny bit long.
Hi Chris- Now that I see them from the side they are fine. Sorry, they looked longer in the other angles.
Cheers,
Michael
Back on the intake. I fabbed a test piece to verify the plenum base plate spacing measurements. Lots of stuff to work out but it's a start.
Remember, whatever gets build, the goal is a clear top plate so you can see the stacks. Fingers crossed this actually works!
Attached thumbnail(s)
I decided to make a heat shield for the new exhaust. I was going to try and make it from aluminum but figured it'd take quite a while, I'd screw up a bunch of material, etc. So I opted to do one in carbon fiber.
First I need a mold and figured why not use it as an opportunity to learn a new skill.
So I did a bit of research and ended up with this:
- place a suitable sheet of ABS in a 225 degree oven until it "goes soft"
- drape it over the shape you want to copy
- press, weight, form and hold it in place until it cools enough to hold the shape
I was a little hesitant with the heat, what with it being my first time, and the first go didn't work out - the ABS wasn't soft enough to form a couple of the tighter areas.
The cool (!) thing is I just popped it back in the oven (don't tell my wife), bumped the heat and let it bake until I could easily fold up a corner.
Then it was: pull it out, drape it on the exhaust and quickly form it as best I could. I used a bodywork sand bag to weigh it down while I worked downward force everywhere, as best I could. Once it was clear it was no longer formable, I removed the sand bag. Here's what it looked like at that point:
Attached thumbnail(s)
Lift it off and BAM! One exhaust heat shield mold.
Pay no attention to the shape around the edges, the final part will be trimmed to look nice, be symmetrical, etc. Next, it's on to some carbon fiber layup.
It was a fun afternoon. I love adding to my skills tool box.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Very cool…….that will make a perfect mold for your carbon layup. I’m not sure you’ll even need PVA with an ABS form.
now do it again with the shiny side up
If it hasn't occurred why yet sleep on it...
This is what happens when you leave the door unlocked...you never know who you'll see at the Red Barn!
Early arrival at yesterday's EASY gathering.
Attached thumbnail(s)
It's been a minute since I posted. Some personal stuff happening on the home front that's required my attention. It's mostly settled down so back into the Red Barn I go.
I'm adding an oil cooler because why not? The first step is mounting the thermostat. A happy accident is that the shape of my rockers allows this to fit underneath, even when mounted on rubber isolators. The thermostat is from Improved Racing and it's a tidy little package.
Now to make lines back to the engine and work out the cooler side of things. I may just run a loop of hose until I come up with something that appeals to me.
Attached thumbnail(s)
New exhaust back from the getting Cerakoted. I'm happy with how it turned out. I'm foregoing the heat shield for now as I'm not happy with the ABS mold but I'll be giving it another go in the future.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Exhaust PORN!
Truely beautiful!
The Improved Racing stuff is always so nice...
Chris, could you try the mold out of thinner sheet that will form crisper lines and transitions?
I think based on my limited research and knowledge you'll probably want to do a second mold because if you lay CF in your initial sheet you'll basically end up with a duplicate of the exhaust size instead of a larger radius that you would need to fit around/over the exhaust?
It'd be a shame to cover up that exhaust anyways!
Oh boy... Wheels headed off to be refinished. In a new color. Which can only mean:
I'm about to pull the whole car apart for paint. And no, I won't tell you what color it's going to be. You'll have to wait and watch.
Attached image(s)
Very nice!
I can not wait to see what color Chris has selected for this amazing car.
Yellow is faster. But considering the car, any color would be faster.
Black on black on black no chrome would be perfect for the beast.
Or Maybe a dark gray.
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=15191 - In retrospect, I probably should have gone with Gold.
Nah!
I see Vegas is taking odds on the color choice if anyone wants to place their bet. Vegas locals are happy for this distraction from the F1 preparation.
Guess…..some shade of blue
Ohhhhh… just the wheels… going with Cairo’s prediction
I know what I'm hoping for.
But also looking forward to seeing this car in color even if I'll miss the rough-and-tumble vibes.
I assume you’ll be using traditional colors for the flames.
For those interested in more details re: wrapping up the new exhaust:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsvDqGNuqi8
Proving the old adage "it's not what you know, it's who...", I posted a reply on a thread from some guy asking about engine swaps, invited him to come to the Red Barn to check out the madness... and he did! Andrew is his name and, as it turns out, 3d printing is at least part of his game.
We were looking at the LS car and how I needed trim pieces for the door bar verticals. I sorta kinda described roughly what I was looking to do...
Fast forward to this past week and Andrew texts me a pic with a "how about this?"
Are you KIDDING ME? They're awesome!
So, here's Andrew making the handoff and the trim rings in the car. WAAAAAY big improvement over the razor cut rubber grommets there at the front, eh?
Big thanks to Andrew!
Attached thumbnail(s)
The best Forum ever!
That’s awesome, they look great!
That does look bitchin; we have a great community!
Nice!
If anyone wants to print their own (I printed them from glass fiber PETG, mostly because the PET is very strong and the glass gives it a nice matte finish) you can download the STL here:
https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-1-5-inch-dress-collar-342582
I also uploaded the Fusion360 file if anyone wants to tweak it for a different size tube.
Its sized for M3x14 socket cap screws and nylock nuts. Its also actually 1 part that lines up as a pair.
Regular PETG would work as well, but IMHO doesn't look as nice.
If you don't have a 3D printer (why not?) upload the STL to somewhere like Fictiv and they will print it for you. I recommend MJF PA12, which should get you parts at about $5 each, or $10 for a pair (I got that price for x12). The PA12 will be around the same strength and has the same nice matte black finish.
Or find a friend and ply them with beer or something.
If you're at all interested in some add'l wiring process detail, you may like this episode. And it may not seem like much but finally working out how to make the wipers work the way I wanted, all from one button on the wireless, was a major mental milestone for me. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G_mfxSDCfI
Totally enjoyed that; the level of craftsmanship and attention to detail is up in the stratosphere.
"It's just what the cool kids do." Loved that! Just confirmed how uncool I actually am as I looked at my drawer full of butt connectors and fabric electrical tape.
Here's the latest. It's geeky and nerdy and probably not interesting to most.
But it's part of the build and I want to document as much as I can so once the car is all done and goes up for sale, interested parties can learn all they want about the details.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Y6QLRDIZk
I used that exact heater core in mine. Perfect size for it and it does produce decent heat. What I did NOT do was plumb a bypass so that when it's 100 degrees outside the coolant just loops around and back to the water pump without going through the core. Initially I put a single valve from a Rabbit to stop the flow but it still got a little warm up there. Planning to fix that this spring.
Nice work on the heater, looking forward to next segment(s). I used the cable operated version of that valve and was a little worried about the length of the cable run from dash to valve, but it seems to be working well so far.
Very nice and as usual thought out very well!
delete
Just watched the heater video...
You missed one of the most important facts about that heater control valve!
That is not JUST a heater control valve!
That puppy is a heater BYPASS valve which is significantly better than a control valve!
It recirculates hot coolant back to the engine (or wherever you want on your car).
Many modern engines REQUIRE flow through the heater circuit during all operations as the engineers use the heater circuit for additional engine cooling or air bubble clearing purposes. My Miatas HAVE to have this with a stock cooling system routing.
Modify the Miata with a rear of head located thermostat housing and you can kill the heater circuit off at will, but stock routing will die quickly without the heater circuit.
Add a simple control valve and you blow the head gasket 500 miles down the road!
Most of the modern stuff runs no control valve at all. You have blend doors that direct the airflow around the heater core during hot months. As the door gaskets age, you get "bleed through" heat. The heater system is usually 5 times stronger than the AC system and on a 15-year-old vehicle you can have enough bleed through to have 25-35 degrees of heat added to the system. You end up with AC that sucks hard!
The fix is complete HVAC box rebuilding which usually requires dash removal OR adding a heater control valve on engines that can have the heater circuit removed.
Have one that uses the heater circuit for more than just heat?
You have to have a control valve that makes a loop instead of just closing it off.
Those critters always have 4 ports just like what you have there!
Lots of internet garbage about the LS1 style engines requiring a heater circuit!
Many swear you have to but GM themselves put a simple vacuum-controlled valve, just a 2 port shut off valve, in the Holden based 04-06 GTO. This puppy does NOT recirculate and the LS2 installed in this car works fine without the heater circuit.
The difference in AC temperature between a Camaro and a GTO at MAX AC is 10+ degrees!
The GTO I fixed problem was below 32 degree vent temps (saw 18F!) and it was COMPOUNDED by not having something the size of a toaster inside the car at 200 degrees!
4 port heater control valves are "THE WAY" in my book and the one you found looks NICE.
PM incoming for your source!
Rick
When you have an engine (like the LS) that does not require a bypass valve this is what I suggest and use often.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uac-hv1227c
These fit on mid 2000s Toyota and is a barrel valve internally.
It will hold any setting you put it on forever...
It's a simple 2 port that does not recirculate and from Toyota it's expensive.
I haven't had an aftermarket one fail yet...
It has two 5/8" fittings.
I'm betting I've installed 50!
We can add a valve for $100 or rebuild your HVAC box for $1500.
The valve WILL actually make the car colder than it was originally!
All customers choose this method!
Source for the heater valve, in case others are interested:
https://www.oldairproducts.com/product/heater-valve-kit-50-1555
Attached thumbnail(s)
Any reason why the servo controlled valve can't be controlled directly without using the 'pot that came with it?
My buddy, Tyson, called and says, "Your car got pictured in Issue 2 of the Mobil 1 Driver's Journal - the one that covered Luft 9...." and he sends these pics.
My interior got a full page pic! Well, the shifter, anyway...
Of course I immediately went on ebay and bought a copy. I'd never heard of this publication but apparently, it's a limited edition of 2000 copies. I got # 1055/2000.
Pretty cool.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That's some cool stuff right there! Congratulations Chris!
Very cool Chris. Congratulations.
Congrats Chris! BTW does the article mention the photographer? Thats some nice B&W work.
- Tony
I'm pretty new to the 914 world, but i've seen several youtube videos with this car. I'm a veteran over on Grassroots and remember the RacerBenz build being pretty epic. Its pretty cool to connect these dots. Amazing builds you've got going on, and now I've got 231 pages to explore. I know you're looking to paint the car sometime in the future, but I really dig the ratty exterior against the precision fab work underneath. I'm in to follow!
Chris......
Finally getting back to focusing on the LS car. And it seems like it's not happy I've been ignoring it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGw2eMeS4Ps
Best of your videos I've seen yet!
Answered lots of questions I had regarding the LS car.
I hate it when crap like "poorly retained" throw out bearings VASTLY alter the job.
I'd probably just pull that back out...
So bad assed that you can remove the entire package like you can, headers and all...
I think you're going to have trouble with the bypass you created.
I MIGHT be wrong!
If you cannot control the engine temperature normally stick one of those Toyota barrel style control valves I mentioned before on it to block flow back to original configuration.
I think you will have SLOW warm up, difficult coming up to operating temp, if what I think is correct.
Tip on hydraulic clutch circuits:
open bleeder at slave, depress clutch pedal slowly.
Will it stay on the floor? You're done. leave it that way. The reservoir cannot drain, and the line will stay filled due to being sealed via the master's piston.
Pops back up? (spring loaded)
Find a stick...
Remove line from slave.
System up to that point shouldn't drain.
Makes bleeding the slave much easier.
System will not "flow" again at all until you remove stick, raise pedal by hand.
You need MORE CAT content!
The kitty section is every bit as interesting as the wonderful engineering.
You need an inspection camera. I got a decent one from Amazon with a screen for $40. Found it useful for more than sticking it down spark plug holes.
I think you can wiggle the pivot arm and get the bearing to pop in. Luckily you have a spare trans to test the theory.
I just lost a cat that looks like Juju to anesthesia poisoning. She was sweet too, loved to cuddle and make purrs. Her 'tummy timer' was pretty accurate too.
This Saturday's video will cover the details but for now, I think the problem is solved and we should be back on the road tomorrow.
Attached thumbnail(s)
And... We're back!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ0duYyWDv0
Yay!
Now that everything is back in working order, it's time for a bit of the ol' "Out and About". This morning it was the monthly Breakfast Club Rally "Pre Stage" at the Marin Civic Center. I got there early and snapped a few of my car.
The event is essentially a Cars & Coffee with a VERY wide range of cars.
If you're local, it's a great way to spend a couple hours on a Saturday morning.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Wait till the kitties are at the two-pound point!
Full Blown DEMONS!
Love the DMV "Screened" sticker!
Really?
They accepted that???
Wow!
That is "instant" exhaust. SO nice.
OK, you've actually done engine installs with a handicap I've never encountered.
Engine cradle tilts one direction, car lift tilts the other...
THAT sounds like BULL SHIT!
Enjoyed the video. Keep em coming. The cat prequel (with skip notifications!) works great.
California, in the spring, with a MONSTER car...
BAD ASS Sir!
I liked the kitty portion of the video and the option to skip, which I won’t do but gives others the choice. Cats are cool, I’ve got my share of indoor and outdoor felines.
OK, so this is pretty cool. I just messaged them so no idea what'll come of it but "it's an honor just to be nominated..."
Attached image(s)
That's really cool! It's amazing what you have done without letting any of the "magic smoke" out!
The attention your car gets is all well deserved and you definitely deserve it.
Congratulations
That’s quite an accomplishment Chris. Those guys really know their stuff so to be recognized by them…. A solid stamp of approval to say the least
WRONG picture!
The new exhaust looks much better IMO.
It's Art as well as being exhaust!
Congrats on the nomination!
I think I commented on your wiring when you were doing it. It was so nice to see that done properly and to such a high standard.
Glad to see you getting additional validation on that wiring!
Congrats Chris
Your builds and side projects are over the top.
Glad you are here, happeir that you share your experiences with us all.
THANK YOU...O
The HP Academy article on my LS build is live:
https://www.hpacademy.com/blog/chris-bakers-ls3-powered-porsche-914/
Attached thumbnail(s)
Glad to see your work getting recognition. Also, glad to see this build thread making an appearance again!
Congratulations on the article Chris. Well deserved. Man, 3 projects going on!
Looking forward to more.
Cool article; congratulations Chris- well deserved.
After a lot of work on the 914 Ferrari, it's time to give some love to the LS car.
There are a hand full of things that need improving and it's time to get started on those.
You'll hear all about it in an upcoming "At The Red Barn" YouTube episode but for now:
- replace the clutch master cyl. It needs a smaller bore size to decrease the needed force/lengthen the engagement travel.
- upgrade the dampers. I'm going all in on 3-way adjustables. Not sure which brand but contenders are Moton, Tractive, KW and maybe others.
The suspension shop I'm working with needs a data to set a baseline for spring rates a damper valving. This includes:
- motion ratio of the trailing arms (wheel travel vs shock travel)
- unsprung weight values
- overall weight info
So I borrowed a set of scales to get started. Just over 2300 lbs wet isn't too bad! Pay no attention to the corner balance. All that set up stuff has yet to be done.
Ideally, lessons learned on the LS car will likely transfer to the 914 Ferrari.
Attached thumbnail(s)
We spend lots of time (and $) on various parts of our cars and there's no shortage of info on rust repair, engine builds, etc., but I haven't seen much on suspension set up. So, I'm
documenting my journey to hunt down the ultimate 914 suspension set up.
Thought you might find some of this intereting.
Yep, I have much to learn - but I gotta start somewhere!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVBCh6m8uxc
Do you have a target ride frequency or info on what your supplier is targeting?
With respect to motion ratios - measurement is great. Also take a look in the paddock there are a number of guys in there with spreadsheets of part weights, and motion ratios, camber curves, etc.
I apologize for not having a link - I don’t spend much time over there. The main downside of that forum is that much of the info is related to track modifications but often they measured stock info as a baseline.
Great weekend spent at the NorCal 914 Fest! The organizers did a wonderful job: cool people, great cars (3 factory 6s, including @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9712 ) a couple 6 conversions, 4 V8-swaps and a bunch of nice 4-cyls.
Saturday was a lovely 140 mile drive through the Gold Country, excellent driving conditons, very little traffic. Each meal was more delicious than the last and we ended the day with a fun awards dinner/raffle at Red Bus Brewing in Folsom.
My LS car was awarded the "Madly Modified" trophy: An awesome shop garbage can with the event badging and featuring some very cool pinstripe work done by a local artist.
It's even raspberry and is all but an exact match to the Ferrari build!
Sunday morning was a Cars & Coffee at Niello Porsche where the 914s were front and center as the "featured" model of the day.
Great stuff all around and kudos to the organizers. Really great job. And I'll say: If you have a chance to attend this event next year, don't miss it!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Way to go Chris! Way cool trophy.
Well deserved; the engineering involved in Chris' LS build is just fantastic.
Getting props on Haltech vid is fantastic Chris congrats !! Def a fresh/exciting addition to their usual drag / drift/ JDM coverage. Love the 'Petrol barrel trophy>> have your local upholstery shop make a cushion seat for it...perfect for the work bench
For those of you who thought it'd never happen, well... It's happening!
Attached thumbnail(s)
Everything has it’s time! Looking great!!
It deserves it
It's going to look really good!
Outstanding Chris. I am looking forward to seeing the progress. Please post the color you are considering when the time is right.
Lots of interest in what color it'll be. I'm a fan of blue and I want something non-metallic, that leans to the medium/darker/more masculine side that works with wheels that may be silver, bronze or dark grey.
Current contenders include:
- Sonoco Blue
- Albert Blue
- Deep Sea Blue
And in the end, I'm not sure the color matters that much. As long as it's a "good" color, I'm pretty sure it's going to look great.
Back to the wheels. In an upcoming At The Red Barn episode, you'll see that I'm getting more data for the suspension build and I find out the 16x9" Ronals weigh 20 lbs! Same size Fuch Evo (which is what you get when you buy them new) come in at 13.1. So, I'm shopping wheels! And if I decide I want something a bit more unique, I found Augment Wheels who'll build you anything you want (assuming engeneering approval).
The pics are examples of some they've done that appeal to me. More head scratching to go but you get the idea.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached image(s)
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=19241 - I think Albert Blue is very nice. As for wheels, I really like the middle set, Bobby likes the top set, since more traditional. For me, given your build, I would not shy away from something edgy, like the top ones. Your car is radical and those wheels are very cool.
I agree… I would go with the second set!!
I am digging the second set. Same look as what was, or is called Magnus Walkers Fifteen52 wheels.
Best Bob B
Body work progress. This is the first round to get the flares roughed in. But what a difference from how it's looked for all these years.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Ahh, the death of a rat rod. It’s going to look awesome! I’m hoping for body color sails and bumpers.
5 minutes with AI and my car is painted and has new wheels!
Yes, many weird artifacts but it is an interesting way to very quickly see how things might look.
Attached thumbnail(s)
That is a great color. Gets my vote
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18779 - I used Copilot and simply typed in what I wanted it to do. Here's one where I asked it to "paint the engine compartment and roll cage Porsche Albert Blue". Again, it messes with some things but IMO, gives me the visual I want.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)