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Posted by: ericoneal Oct 26 2016, 02:53 PM

I picked up this engine from a member of the "World" in Nashville and my son and I are going to attempt to rebuild it over the winter. We have a book, youtube, and this website and will document everything in this thread.
The first thing we had to do is get it small and light enough to get it down to the unfinished portion of my basement, so I put the boy (he's 4) to work pulling the heads off.


Looks ok so far... Very hard to keep Blake from "organizing" all the nuts and bolts into a mixed pile.


Success:


More picture and questions to come. I have the cylinders and heads off and its ready to move, but still very heavy.

Much thanks to walterolin for loaning us an engine stand, he even hand delivered it on a Sunday morning. Thanks again Walter!

Posted by: iwanta914-6 Oct 26 2016, 03:04 PM

What a fun project!

Posted by: fixer34 Oct 26 2016, 03:24 PM

If you can find a later version (still 20+ years old..) of John Muir's 'How to keep your Volkswagen Alive' book, I would start there. Pretty sure it includes the Type IV engines. Not many pictures, but he does a great (and humorous) job of explaining exactly what to do.

I'm sure others here can recommend a technical manual that can help fill in the pictures.

Posted by: yellow75 Oct 26 2016, 03:49 PM

I have a first edition of Johns book. He's a very detailed and humorous guy for sure. A wealth of common sense knowledge in that book.

Posted by: CAMshaft Oct 26 2016, 04:16 PM

I recommend Jake Raby's Rebuild VW Porsche Type 4 IV Engine DVD. He does a complete tear down, inspection and rebuild. He also points out the parts to hang on to that are hard to come by. It's a great step by step guide.

Posted by: malcolm2 Oct 26 2016, 04:59 PM

The engine stand makes life easier.

You have lots to think about. Is there anything wrong with the engine that the PO told you or you can see?

you just gonna re-bush, re-bearing, re-ring, etc.... the 1.7?

Fuel injection, or Carbs.... gotta get the right cam.

Or maybe spice it up with bigger pistons and make it a 1911 cc. all that is is upping the piston diameter. and it goes up in stuff and price from there. 2.0, 2056, etc... depends on what you plan to do with the car.

all the books will help and Jakes video is pretty old, but it is good. YouTube is great too.

Let me know if I can help, I am also in Nashville. You are a good ways from here, but I'll do what I can.

Posted by: Mblizzard Oct 26 2016, 06:17 PM

Hey I am not far away if you get stuck.

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 26 2016, 06:45 PM

Simply awesome! Save this picture to remind Blake of your role instilling in him the need to take things apart and fix them. What a great memory!

Posted by: stugray Oct 26 2016, 09:23 PM

I second the video from Jake Raby.
He says that some of his recommendations have changed since he made the video but it is still the 'bible' for a type-IV first timer.

Posted by: cary Oct 27 2016, 07:02 AM

I third Jake's video. You can go with the adhesives in the video. Or buy the new kit from the Type 4 Store.
I started my love for working on cars with John's book. Have no idea where it went. I think I'll search the web for one.

Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Oct 27 2016, 07:43 AM

I have Jake's video but mostly use Tom Wilson's book. "How to rebuild your vw engine". Ions ago there was no internet, so Tom's book got me through my first rebuilds. I still use it for reference.

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Clone Oct 27 2016, 08:26 AM

Cool to see this Eric! Fun to have your boy "helping" too. IIRC it had low compression in #3, so I'll be following your progress.

Posted by: mbseto Oct 27 2016, 08:35 AM

My 1.7 needs at the very least a top end rebuild. Might try to follow along with you...

Posted by: ericoneal Oct 27 2016, 09:47 AM

Thanks everyone. I have read the VW idiot book, have thumbed through the Wilson book, and will start looking for the dvd. This page looks useful as well: http://www.ephotomotion.com/914engine/

I pulled my current 2.0 out last summer and had it rebuilt by someone else, then put it back in, so I'm not completely foriegn to all of this. That was a horrible, epic, experience that led me down this path of wanting to have the knowledge to rebuild on my own.

Will send along pictures as I make progress, all advice is welcome. Next up is to buy a work bench this weekend, get it on the stand, and maybe the case open.

Eric


PS Perry, I thought that I had remembered you mentioning that, will keep that in mind and send pictures when I get to that. The transmission you gave me is getting cracked open next.

Posted by: malcolm2 Oct 27 2016, 11:08 AM

http://www.bugmevideo.com/volume8.html

You mentioned Transmission>>>

DR EVIL has a DVD too. He is in Ohio now.

https://themostlyporscheblog.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/261/

I had him rebuild my tranz. I felt like the tranz was something I did not want to tackle alone. He worked hard to get it right. I have about 25K miles on it now.

Posted by: Frankvw Oct 27 2016, 01:19 PM

Great project. Below books help me a lot.
the John Muir is gold for me for many years in my VW hobby and now again great use for the 914 work.

Posted by: Archie Oct 27 2016, 02:32 PM

Good choice! It covers the Type IV engine and it even has a section on the fuel injection!

Posted by: fixer34 Oct 27 2016, 03:27 PM

25th anniversary edition..
I just looked, mine is dated Feb 1974

Posted by: NCRider Nov 5 2016, 07:34 AM

Eric I think I have a extra Bug Me DVD i can give you . The late Bob Hoover's Blog has a great deal of practical air cooled motor information.

http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/search?q=cylinder+height+

Jeff

Posted by: stugray Nov 5 2016, 11:21 AM

This is also a must read for anyone building a type IV:

http://www.ephotomotion.com/914engine/

Posted by: ericoneal Nov 6 2016, 04:08 PM

Great link, looks like lots of good info there. THanks for that.

WOuld love to get my hands on the BugMe DVD as well if you are finished with it.

Still looking at getting the engine moved down to my basement and onto a stand, unfortunately, I threw my back out a few days ago, so that is causing delays.

Posted by: NCRider Nov 7 2016, 07:37 AM

I found my other Bug Me copy. PM me the address and I'll get it out to you.

Jeff

Posted by: NCRider Nov 15 2016, 02:58 PM

Eric I got the DVD mailed out today. You should have it by the end of the week.

Jeff

Posted by: stugray Nov 15 2016, 03:29 PM

I also have a spare Jake Raby video.
I bought one, misplaced it, bought another, found original....

Posted by: Frankvw Nov 29 2016, 06:41 AM

Hi guys, how is your build coming along ? Any updates ?

Posted by: ericoneal Nov 29 2016, 09:03 AM

Slow going, but I did receive the rebuild DVD in the mail yesterday. Thanks NCRider!
I'm still trying to get my neighbor to help with moving onto the engine stand, then i will send more pictures. Head and cyclinders, etc are in plastic bins and the shortblock is still sitting. I thought if I got all of the extraneous stuff off that I could move it myself, but its heavy and I dont think I can get it to the basement alone.
Everything is set to go, but life keeps happening...

Posted by: ericoneal Dec 14 2016, 08:14 AM

We're finally on the engine stand. More to come....

(Yes thats a plastic monkey wrench hanging off)

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Dec 14 2016, 02:25 PM

Have you found anything obviously wrong? IIRC it was #3 that had low compression. Looks like your boy is enjoying the process

Posted by: ericoneal Dec 14 2016, 06:31 PM

Not sure what to look for, but will post picks of everything. Heads are off and cylinders are out at this point.

Posted by: ericoneal Jan 3 2017, 09:03 AM

Pistons are off! How do they look?

The clips holding them on were very hard to remove. Splitting the case open tonight!

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 3 2017, 09:11 AM

Go slowly on splitting the case. Lots of hidden bolts. don't get too physical and try to wedge it apart. If it does not come easily, you have a nut left to get.

If you had low compression, were the rings stuck on that cylinder?

What about a photo of the heads? My problem was obvious. One of the valve seats had broken and gotten into the combustion chamber and bounced around, ruining the piston and the head.

Posted by: ericoneal Jan 3 2017, 09:37 AM

I will post detailed pictures of the heads tonight, been meaning to do that. I think the internals may be OK, but I want to split the case open out of curiosity, if all is well, I will just leave it alone.
Can you elaborate by "rings stuck on the cylinder"? Is there something I should look for? Will post pictures of those as well.

Thanks

Posted by: malcolm2 Jan 3 2017, 10:23 AM

Rings stuck. I was thinking you could have a low compression cylinder. Maybe a ring problem. I have seen rings that have come out of their channel and bent. Maybe a ring broke and did not seal properly, or stuck to the inside of it's channel and did not touch the wall of the cylinder.

Any reason to not show compression.

Posted by: ericoneal Jan 12 2017, 11:05 AM

Blake took the thermostat and oil pump cover off last night before the magnets we were going to use to remove the lifters got all of his attention.
This looks like a Type1 oil pump to me, am I right?

Also, can anyone identify these pistons from their markings?

Thanks, slowly making progress..

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Jan 12 2017, 01:20 PM

Posted by: Al Meredith Jan 12 2017, 05:32 PM

Something doesn't look right. All the 1.7s I've rebuilt have domed pistons. The pistons pictured in this thread appeared to be "dished" or lower compression. Could hat be a bus or 411 engine?

Posted by: ericoneal Jan 12 2017, 09:55 PM

I noticed that too, could be bus pistons for sure. I've heard of them being used because they are cheap.

Posted by: ericoneal Jan 26 2017, 11:37 AM

We got the case open!

Confirmed that it is a 1.7 engine, but case has a bronzish tint to it. Wonder if it was recently rebuilt or mucked with because everything has come apart pretty easily. (ie bolts not stuck, etc).
Lots of oil and dirt on it though, so I need to figure out to get this thinged cleaned up. Anyone ever take their case to the car wash and use the pressure washers there?

Posted by: Frankvw Jan 26 2017, 01:01 PM

you guys are doing a great job.
Over here: If I would take a oily case to the pressure washer station I hope I do not get caught for environmental hazard violation.....
Keep up the good work ! Looking forward to more updates !

Posted by: Valy Jan 26 2017, 01:06 PM

Let me be the first one to tell you that your cam is dead.

Posted by: ericoneal Jan 26 2017, 02:38 PM

Thanks.

Valy, I think your right. I'm going to take pictures of everything and then you guys can tell me what needs to be replaced.

Posted by: jcd914 Jan 27 2017, 02:30 AM

You may be able to find a local automotive machine shop that can clean the case fairly cheap. In the old days it would have been soaked in a hot tank of caustic chemicals but now days most all are water based cleaners. We had a high pressure wash cabinet with a rotating basket. In there for 30 minutes and it would look pretty good.

Before cleaning the case, be sure to remove the 5 dowel pins for locating/securing the crank bearings, they get lost easily. There are 4 in one case half and 1 in the other.

Jim

Posted by: ericoneal Nov 13 2017, 03:01 PM

So this project is now on indefinite hold. I have discovered a 4 inch crack in one of the heads.

Posted by: malcolm2 Nov 13 2017, 03:07 PM

Sorry to hear. I am in Nashville. I have 2 heads from a '71 1.7. I have no idea about their condition. They are not cleaned up.

You can have them. If they will get you going.

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Nov 13 2017, 05:38 PM

I can't believe that engine ran fairly well before I pulled it. As I told you it had low leak down in one cylinder (#3 iirc) The car had a lot of work done by a really shady "mechanic", but the PO didn't know anything about the engine

Posted by: walterolin Nov 13 2017, 08:52 PM

Same as Malcolm2 - two 1.7 heads, no idea of their condition. Same price as Malcolms.

Posted by: Valy Nov 13 2017, 09:28 PM

This sound like an upgrade opportunity to me.

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 14 2017, 01:27 PM

I love this place. I need to get my soon to be 5yo in on something like this. Engines are more fun that transmissions, I think, but take more time and $$ (for me). Walter and Perry are kick ass, lucky you live near enough.

Posted by: RoadGlue Nov 14 2017, 03:11 PM

Hey Eric,

It looks like I have a lead on a good 1.7 head that I could send you at no-cost. Would a head be of use if it needed to be rebuilt but was otherwise in good condition without cracks?

Let me know. You can PM if you'd prefer. Hate to see your project stall.

Posted by: ericoneal Nov 14 2017, 03:53 PM

I dont know what to say... Malcolm, RoadGlue, and Walter, you guys and NCRider who sent me the rebuild DVD have been great. What a great community we have here! Thank you guys very much for the offers.

Malcolm, this engine came from Nashville, I bought it from Perry Kiehl as an "condition unknown", so I expected issues.

Walter, I may take you up on yours if you have no need for them and just have some laying around. I see Walter regularly and he is familiar with this engine and my driver 2.0, which he helped to get started afterm that one was rebuilt. Hell, the engine stand in the pictures is his as well.
Walter has given me parts and time already, so I would want to give you at least something in exchange.

I'm still trying to determine what to do with this engine as the project has been stalled for awhile.
I can rebuild it, but I already have a 2.0 that was just rebuilt and is running great, so I probably won't need it. I would hesitate to sell it if I did finish it as I would hate to have it crap out on someone due to my limited experience.
Suggestions?

Posted by: flyer86d Nov 14 2017, 04:57 PM

Weren’t the dish top pistons used on the 73 1.7s? I know that the 71s had pop up pistons. I would put a set of 96mm p&cs in it and try to find a set of 1.8 heads with the bigger valves and better ports. Mill the step off of the sealing surface for compression. I used to mill the big boss of the small end of the rods to lighten them a bit. It will run great with the stock injection and be a fun engine.

Charlie

Posted by: Boomingbeetle Nov 14 2017, 05:38 PM

If you are interested in this route, I have a set of 1.8 heads newly rebuilt by Brothers VW in Ontario CA, the heads have also had the spark plugs relocated to the 2.0 angle/position which is supposed to increase HP. PM me if interested and I can get you pics and receipts.

Posted by: ericoneal Feb 9 2018, 01:25 PM

So this project may be picking back up. I found a set of, what are said to be, 1.8L heads near me for dirt cheap but they will need to be cleaned up. I'd like to make this engine a 2056 and I know this has been asked a hundred time before but, can I just drop 96mm pistons and cylinders into 1.8 heads without needed to have any work done to them, then fit them on this 1.7L case? Will the sheet metal fit too? From what I read, these are preferred over 1.7 heads for strength and performance.
Would I be better off getting Walter's 1.7 heads and doing the same, will those need to be cut for 96mm?

Finally, have a look at these heads, can you guys definitely identify them as 1.8s?

Guy states: "The heads are oval port with 40mn intake valves and a 93mm cylinder bore." I want to make sure he's not passing me bus heads or something...

Posted by: malcolm2 Feb 9 2018, 03:18 PM

Cleanliness is not what is required on heads. Someone needs to check them out. Cracks etc…

2056 will need a 71 mm crank along with 96mm jugs and pistons. That crank will also require smaller rods. Folks say to make a 1.7 into a 2.0 you need to make sure the rods and crank clear webbing etc inside the engine. The cooling tin would fit 1.7 ans 2.0 jugs the OD is the same.