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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Adapters
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 19 2016, 08:41 AM
I have an opportunity to purchase a set of the 4 to five lug adapters. They are quite a bit less expensive than swapping out the original hubs with those of a 911 and then having to deal with rotor brake issues. Is this a alternative that will work? Does anyone
Have any experience with these adapters?
Thanks in advance
Posted by: bdstone914 Nov 19 2016, 09:00 AM
I have an opportunity to purchase a set of the 4 to five lug adapters. They are quite a bit less expensive than swapping out the original hubs with those of a 911 and then having to deal with rotor brake issues. Is this a alternative that will work? Does anyone
Have any experience with these adapters?
Thanks in advance
Generally bad. Often made of weak cast aluminum. Some are made of billet aluminum. They also offset the wheels outward. I have a set I will not sell and will probably scrap for safety reasons. Eric has a great write up on options of five lug conversions.
My preference is 911 front suspension and redrilled rear hubs.
What is the plan for the car overall and what kind of HP will it have ?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=105728&hl=conversion
Posted by: bdstone914 Nov 19 2016, 09:02 AM
And congradulations on having 917 posts!
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 19 2016, 09:10 AM
And congradulations on having 917 posts!
74 with a 1.8 liter running the stock EFI and Dansk exhaust system. Nothing to much over what the original build was. Just looking for a well mannered fun car to drive. But really like the ability to have a five lug set up.
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 19 2016, 09:38 AM
I have an opportunity to purchase a set of the 4 to five lug adapters. They are quite a bit less expensive than swapping out the original hubs with those of a 911 and then having to deal with rotor brake issues. Is this a alternative that will work? Does anyone
Have any experience with these adapters?
Thanks in advance
Generally bad. Often made of weak cast aluminum. Some are made of billet aluminum. They also offset the wheels outward. I have a set I will not sell and will probably scrap for safety reasons. Eric has a great write up on options of five lug conversions.
My preference is 911 front suspension and redrilled rear hubs.
What is the plan for the car overall and what kind of HP will it have ?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=105728&hl=conversion
Thank you for the link, just got finished reading it. Excellent tech info especially liked the way Eric took the time to go through the pro and con, using costs, what the cars uses would be and so on. Definitely saved as a favorite.
Posted by: Cal Nov 19 2016, 11:12 AM
You should consider this setup from George.....$1K.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=232146732104&globalID=EBAY-US
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: BigFour1973 Nov 19 2016, 11:25 AM
I have an opportunity to purchase a set of the 4 to five lug adapters. They are quite a bit less expensive than swapping out the original hubs with those of a 911 and then having to deal with rotor brake issues. Is this a alternative that will work? Does anyone
Have any experience with these adapters?
Thanks in advance
Generally bad. Often made of weak cast aluminum. Some are made of billet aluminum. They also offset the wheels outward. I have a set I will not sell and will probably scrap for safety reasons. Eric has a great write up on options of five lug conversions.
My preference is 911 front suspension and redrilled rear hubs.
What is the plan for the car overall and what kind of HP will it have ?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=105728&hl=conversion
Bruce, wouldn't re drilling the rear hubs make them weak? reason I say that is because only one stud will be entirely in its own boss, compared to the others either half way or not at all?
Posted by: Chris914n6 Nov 19 2016, 11:46 AM
You will be limited to high offset wheels. Boxster fronts, maybe modern 911 fronts if narrow enough, and I think some of the phone dials.
The redrilled hubs from PMB would be the much better way to go if the 911 parts are out of budget.
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 19 2016, 11:52 AM
these are the set I was looking at
Posted by: cwpeden Nov 19 2016, 11:59 AM
Our cars are 4x130. those adapt a Porsche wheel to a Honda or some other import.
Havent memorized what I deem umiportant 
Those wont work
Posted by: Mueller Nov 19 2016, 12:01 PM
You will be limited to high offset wheels. Boxster fronts, maybe modern 911 fronts if narrow enough, and I think some of the phone dials.
The redrilled hubs from PMB would be the much better way to go if the 911 parts are out of budget.
Rear hubs have been redrilled for 30+ years, I've never seen a failure, some people (like PBM) add a spacer for a little more surface area.
Posted by: Mueller Nov 19 2016, 12:04 PM
Our cars are 4x130. those adapt a Porsche wheel to a Honda or some other import.
Havent memorized what I deem umiportant
^this.....someone wasn't paying attention....If our cars had a 4x100 pattern there would be hundreds of rims to choose from!
Posted by: cwpeden Nov 19 2016, 12:07 PM
Our cars are 4x130. those adapt a Porsche wheel to a Honda or some other import.
Havent memorized what I deem umiportant
^this.....someone wasn't paying attention....If our cars had a 4x100 pattern there would be hundreds of rims to choose from!
Sigh, wouldn't that be a little slice of heaven?
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 19 2016, 12:13 PM
sort of brightened everyone's day for a minute anyway.
Yep sorry for the mis cue. The photos were just meant to show a representation of the physical part. They do come in various bolt circles. I appreciate the attention to detail though.
Posted by: cwpeden Nov 19 2016, 12:30 PM
On a side note, I see the adapter come from "Raceland".
There is no racing organization that will allow you to use adapters while racing.
Consider that if you ever want to autocross or DE or..... Drifters might let you. 
Actually on further consideration it looks as though the rules have changed?
It looks as thought SCCA may allow them?
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 19 2016, 12:36 PM
As this post goes and the more I read up on adapters they appear more likely to fail and a way to "get by" on the cheap. While I do not see me racing the car I want the car to be done correctly. Scratch the adapters.
Posted by: Rand Nov 19 2016, 12:39 PM
How's your shop coming?
Posted by: bdstone914 Nov 19 2016, 12:39 PM
You should consider this setup from George.....$1K.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=232146732104&globalID=EBAY-US
Eric has a comparable setup and you would be dealing with a reputable vendor not like George.
Another reason to not use adapters is they add one more component to allow for the wheels to be more off center. It can already be a problem on the rears that are not hub centric.
Posted by: bdstone914 Nov 19 2016, 12:45 PM
You will be limited to high offset wheels. Boxster fronts, maybe modern 911 fronts if narrow enough, and I think some of the phone dials.
The redrilled hubs from PMB would be the much better way to go if the 911 parts are out of budget.
Rear hubs have been redrilled for 30+ years, I've never seen a failure, some people (like PBM) add a spacer for a little more surface area.
I am not a fan of the front redrilled rotors for the following reasons:
1. The studs go in a thin area of the rotor and can strip out. Eric's setup uses red loctite to install the studs but with use of an impact in the nuts you can have problems.
2. If they do strip out, or the rotors need to be replaced, you cannot easily get an off the shelf rotor to replace it.
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 19 2016, 12:45 PM
How's your shop coming?
I can start another thread on that question.
Posted by: Rand Nov 19 2016, 12:50 PM
How's your shop coming?
I can start another thread on that question.
Just update the one you started before. By now you must have some good pics.
Posted by: socal1200r Nov 19 2016, 04:19 PM
these are the set I was looking at
For a daily driver, I'd consider using those in order to run 5-lug wheels. The other pic that had a conversion "kit" for $1000, seriously?! Then of course you have to factor in the cost of 5-lug wheels, which for "original" wheels verge on the ridiculous. For $1000 I'd expect to get wheels, tires, AND the conversion kit. I was thinking of converting to 5-lugs, but after seeing the costs involved both for the hardware and 5-lug wheels, that thought quickly passed. I've got other things to spend my money on...
Posted by: Chris914n6 Nov 19 2016, 05:11 PM
You will be limited to high offset wheels. Boxster fronts, maybe modern 911 fronts if narrow enough, and I think some of the phone dials.
The redrilled hubs from PMB would be the much better way to go if the 911 parts are out of budget.
Rear hubs have been redrilled for 30+ years, I've never seen a failure, some people (like PBM) add a spacer for a little more surface area.
That was more of a reference to fronts with vented rotors.
The rears don't leave much meat for the studs to bite into. The pair on my car were welded on by the PO or whoever did it because the studs came loose. I really need to get my early hubs drilled before the 3.5L swap
4x130 to 4x4.5 - that's the ticket to glorious wheel choices.
Posted by: RickS Nov 19 2016, 08:21 PM
No one has mentioned that frequently with adapters in the rear, it pushes the wheels out so far that the chances are good that one or both tires will rub the fender. I won't say how I know.... but then I did the full 5 lug Monty and have been converted. PTL.
Posted by: Mueller Nov 19 2016, 10:39 PM
these are the set I was looking at
For a daily driver, I'd consider using those in order to run 5-lug wheels. The other pic that had a conversion "kit" for $1000, seriously?! Then of course you have to factor in the cost of 5-lug wheels, which for "original" wheels verge on the ridiculous. For $1000 I'd expect to get wheels, tires, AND the conversion kit. I was thinking of converting to 5-lugs, but after seeing the costs involved both for the hardware and 5-lug wheels, that thought quickly passed. I've got other things to spend my money on...
You need to learn how search better
http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/1925565/9746772.htm
Still not cheap, but I'd rather give my money to Eric.
There are few factory Porsche 5 lug wheels you can get that don't cost too much, in the $400 to $600 for a set.
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 20 2016, 07:31 AM
these are the set I was looking at
For a daily driver, I'd consider using those in order to run 5-lug wheels. The other pic that had a conversion "kit" for $1000, seriously?! Then of course you have to factor in the cost of 5-lug wheels, which for "original" wheels verge on the ridiculous. For $1000 I'd expect to get wheels, tires, AND the conversion kit. I was thinking of converting to 5-lugs, but after seeing the costs involved both for the hardware and 5-lug wheels, that thought quickly passed. I've got other things to spend my money on...
You need to learn how search better
http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/1925565/9746772.htm
Still not cheap, but I'd rather give my money to Eric.
There are few factory Porsche 5 lug wheels you can get that don't cost too much, in the $400 to $600 for a set.
Thanks for the link Mueller
Posted by: mlindner Nov 20 2016, 07:52 AM
I would not do adapters, Eric has a very nice setup, redrilled rotors, new bearings, seals, works with you original calipers, your suspension stays original. Best, Mark
Posted by: zach914v8 Nov 20 2016, 08:11 AM
I have had custom made billet adapters on my car for 15 years. I ran an 11.8 seconds in the quarter mile with the help of nitrous. So they seem safe to me. Mine are 2" wide and adapt 4x130 to 4x114.3 or 4.5. can be used with wheels thet have a +35 to +42 offset. I think my wheels are 7" wide, maybe 8".
These were made by a company that made wheel adapters for off road jeeps and rock crawlers. When I ordered them the guy assured me that these adapters would be just as strong as the hub they were being bolted to.
Driving my car aggressively for the last 15 years and I have yet to have any issues with them.
Posted by: socal1200r Nov 20 2016, 08:26 AM
I have had custom made billet adapters on my car for 15 years. I ran an 11.8 seconds in the quarter mile with the help of nitrous. So they seem safe to me. Mine are 2" wide and adapt 4x130 to 4x114.3 or 4.5. can be used with wheels thet have a +35 to +42 offset. I think my wheels are 7" wide, maybe 8".
These were made by a company that made wheel adapters for off road jeeps and rock crawlers. When I ordered them the guy assured me that these adapters would be just as strong as the hub they were being bolted to.
Driving my car aggressively for the last 15 years and I have yet to have any issues with them.
Now you're talking! That opens up a whole world of wheel possibilities! What would a set of those adapters run? I have 4-lug Mahles on my '73 1.7, so going to 5-lug wouldn't be OEM anyway, so I would be totally fine with running some 4x114 or 4x100 wheels. And with the variety of offsets available with those more common bolt sizes, I'm sure I could find a nice set of wheels to fit the stock body.
Posted by: zach914v8 Nov 20 2016, 08:48 AM
Back in 2001 dollars they cost me $125 each. I sent them a stock lug bolt and measured the hub bore on my wheels so they cut cut a hub centric lip on the adapter. The place that made them for me closed up way back in 2008 during the recession. They look simple I'm sure and decent machine shop could build a set.
EDIT: I also wanted to add, that when I had these made I also had a 95 honda prelude with 19" on it so I had these made to fit those wheels. Since then I have changed wheels a few time. But now all I have to do to find new wheels is search wheels for a 95 Honda prelude.
Posted by: Joe Bob Nov 20 2016, 08:53 AM
I have a set of 4x130 to 5x130 and close to you if you want to try them out. High quality make.
Posted by: Gunn1 Nov 20 2016, 10:14 AM
I have a set of 4x130 to 5x130 and close to you if you want to try them out. High quality make.
Joe Bob, I greatly appreciate the generous offer. But at this point to try them out I would have to have a set five lug wheels with tires mounted on them to determine whether they fit under the fenders on my narrow body. Also I believe if/when I go from the 4 to the 5 lug it will be in form of a kit like Eric's that will keep things pretty much as designed and allow me the most room under the fenders without messing around to much with the offsets.
What I great offer though, Thanks again
Posted by: Mueller Nov 20 2016, 01:44 PM
Big difference between 4 to 4 adapters and 4 to 5 adapters.
PCA has banned adapters that allow a different bolt pattern, as far as I know 5x130 to 5x130 spacers are allowed.
I'm guessing this was due to bad quality 4 to 5 adapters (I too had some cast 4 to 5 adapters and recycled them instead of selling, you could see the porosity in the casting)
If you look at the picture, more meat between the holes and studs for a 4 to 4 adapter, I'd have no problem with those at all as long as you ensure the adapter is properly attached or torqued. 
Posted by: Mueller Nov 20 2016, 01:48 PM
I have a set of 4x130 to 5x130 and close to you if you want to try them out. High quality make.
Joe Bob, I greatly appreciate the generous offer. But at this point to try them out I would have to have a set five lug wheels with tires mounted on them to determine whether they fit under the fenders on my narrow body. Also I believe if/when I go from the 4 to the 5 lug it will be in form of a kit like Eric's that will keep things pretty much as designed and allow me the most room under the fenders without messing around to much with the offsets.
What I great offer though, Thanks again
There are no Fuchs or Cookie cutters that will fit under the stock fenders with adapters (on the rear) You will need later offset wheels like '87 and newer 944 wheels or anything newer like the Boxster as long as it is a 7" or narrower with an offset in the 50mm range.
Your normal 7" wide Fuchs will have a 23mm offset which is not enough for use with an adapter.
Posted by: zach914v8 Nov 20 2016, 02:50 PM
I have a set of 4x130 to 5x130 and close to you if you want to try them out. High quality make.
Joe Bob, I greatly appreciate the generous offer. But at this point to try them out I would have to have a set five lug wheels with tires mounted on them to determine whether they fit under the fenders on my narrow body. Also I believe if/when I go from the 4 to the 5 lug it will be in form of a kit like Eric's that will keep things pretty much as designed and allow me the most room under the fenders without messing around to much with the offsets.
What I great offer though, Thanks again
There are no Fuchs or Cookie cutters that will fit under the stock fenders with adapters (on the rear) You will need later offset wheels like '87 and newer 944 wheels or anything newer like the Boxster as long as it is a 7" or narrower with an offset in the 50mm range.
Your normal 7" wide Fuchs will have a 23mm offset which is not enough for use with an adapter.
Mueller, what are your thoughts on the 2 piece adapters that adapt 4 to 5 lug? I have always thought some 19" 18" corvette z06 wheels would look awesome on my car, I just don't have much faith in those 2 piece adapters.
Posted by: Mueller Nov 20 2016, 02:57 PM
I have a set of 4x130 to 5x130 and close to you if you want to try them out. High quality make.
Joe Bob, I greatly appreciate the generous offer. But at this point to try them out I would have to have a set five lug wheels with tires mounted on them to determine whether they fit under the fenders on my narrow body. Also I believe if/when I go from the 4 to the 5 lug it will be in form of a kit like Eric's that will keep things pretty much as designed and allow me the most room under the fenders without messing around to much with the offsets.
What I great offer though, Thanks again
There are no Fuchs or Cookie cutters that will fit under the stock fenders with adapters (on the rear) You will need later offset wheels like '87 and newer 944 wheels or anything newer like the Boxster as long as it is a 7" or narrower with an offset in the 50mm range.
Your normal 7" wide Fuchs will have a 23mm offset which is not enough for use with an adapter.
Mueller, what are your thoughts on the 2 piece adapters that adapt 4 to 5 lug? I have always thought some 19" 18" corvette z06 wheels would look awesome on my car, I just don't have much faith in those 2 piece adapters.
Even more hardware to loosen up or forget to tighten? No thanks, I am sure they work and can be used with 0 failure.
One thing to think about , if you take your car to a shop for new tires many shops refuse to replace tires on vehicles with spacers or adapters. It would suck to have your car up on the lift with no wheels on it and the shop not willing to re-install your rims and tires.
Posted by: zach914v8 Nov 20 2016, 03:05 PM
I get your point, I never really thought about that. I have always worked at a shop with a tire machine so I have always done it myself.
Now that I do think about it, if I had a customer come in with adapters I would probably turn them away as well. Too much liability to take on.
Posted by: Joe Bob Nov 20 2016, 03:14 PM
Some people use the term adapter and spacer interchangeably. They are wrong as spacers will slip over existing studs. The early 930 did this from the factory.
As to options, I would and have done the drilled option on the rear and swapped out the stock 914 front end for a 3.5 inch caliper spaced 911 one. You CAN you the earlier ones but you are limited to to early calipers unless you do some fancy work to the caliper mounting points, like filling and re-drilling.
The downside is having to replace the rear wheel bearings. Once you push out the hub they are destroyed.
Remember to toss the new bearings in the freezer overnight prior to slipping them into the swing arm and pushing in the refurbished hubs with studs......
Posted by: Mueller Nov 20 2016, 03:44 PM
Some people use the term adapter and spacer interchangeably. They are wrong as spacers will slip over existing studs. The early 930 did this from the factory.
As to options, I would and have done the drilled option on the rear and swapped out the stock 914 front end for a 3.5 inch caliper spaced 911 one. You CAN you the earlier ones but you are limited to to early calipers unless you do some fancy work to the caliper mounting points, like filling and re-drilling.
The downside is having to replace the rear wheel bearings. Once you push out the hub they are destroyed.
Remember to toss the new bearings in the freezer overnight prior to slipping them into the swing arm and pushing in the refurbished hubs with studs......
Local Americas Tire won't change a tire on a car with those slide on spacers, or at least last time my mother-in-law went there. Her car only had a 1/8" spacer for brake caliper clearance and they wouldn't service the car. She had to take it to another shop.
Posted by: Joe Bob Nov 20 2016, 03:48 PM
I never take a car to a shop for wheel change, I take the wheel in myself. I don't trust those monkeys to not crush my oil lines or to properly snug down the lug nuts.
As to arbitrarily not working on cars with spacers? They are ignorant monkeys.....kinda like Mustang owners.
Posted by: Chris914n6 Nov 20 2016, 07:26 PM
I never take a car to a shop for wheel change, I take the wheel in myself. I don't trust those monkeys to not crush my oil lines or to properly snug down the lug nuts.
As to arbitrarily not working on cars with spacers? They are ignorant monkeys.....kinda like Mustang owners.
I have the same rule. Nuts are never torqued right. My neighbor once went to Sears for new tires. Breaker bar didn't cut it, it took BFIW to get the nuts off after.
2 piece adapters work fine. Getting them the right size is an issue. You really want them to be hub centric with the load they put on studs. Thread lock mandatory.
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