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Posted by: project914s Apr 25 2005, 10:19 PM

I just recently purchased a my first 914 2.0, and I want to get the car up to date on its maintenance. First on the list is all fluid changes including new brake lines. Also I am not too familiar with these air cooled engines.

My question is, can I remove the thermostat and manually keep the engine cooling flapper open permanentl? I live in Orlando, Fl and its always hot or mild. I just want the engine to run as cool as it can. Is this ok to do?

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 25 2005, 10:34 PM

this comes up every-now-and-then, honestly if you take the thermostat off, the flaps stay fully open....now i *think* that eliminating the thermostat might cause problems with the oil cooler or something...somebody else knows the answer, I'm just tryin to recall what i heard

Posted by: project914s Apr 25 2005, 10:46 PM

I see that your from Bowling Green, Ky.... I lived in Clarksville, TN for 10 years which is on the state border. My car was actually from Louisville, Ky and the mechanic shop the PO used was called "AUTOMOTION".

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 25 2005, 10:52 PM

NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO!!! AUTOMOTION GO TO HELL...overpriced crap....

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 25 2005, 10:56 PM

but back to life.....thats awesome! wish you still lived near...i actually *live* in louisville, and i just go to WKU for college....the 914 is actually resting rigth now....tired of putting miles on it (not the person)

Posted by: project914s Apr 25 2005, 10:56 PM

Holy crap, I hope their service is good though.... because I have like 20 receipts from them performing maintenance and even a complete engine rebuild!

Posted by: Rand Apr 25 2005, 11:04 PM

Ok Britt, how do you really feel about Automotion?

Posted by: Reiche Apr 26 2005, 01:20 AM

QUOTE (project914s @ Apr 25 2005, 08:19 PM)

I just recently purchased a my first 914 2.0,  and I want to get the car up to date on its maintenance. First on the list is all fluid changes including new brake lines. Also I am not too familiar with these air cooled engines. My question is, can I remove the thermostat and manually keep the engine cooling flapper open permanentl? I live in Orlando, Fl and its always hot or mild. I just want the engine to run as cool as it can. Is this ok to do?

In Orlando, yes, you can probably safely leave the thermostat off. It wouldn't hurt to have it on though. Using it won't make your engine run any hotter, it just lets it warm up faster. The less warm-up time the better, since that is when most cylinder wear happens. And BTW the thermostat flaps only block the air to the cylinders and heads while warming up. The oil cooler always gets full airflow.

Posted by: Brando Apr 26 2005, 01:48 AM

Just remember to leave the flappers in there.

No thermostat = OK.
No flappers = NOT OK.

THE DAPPO yanked the flappers on mine so it would "run cooler". Great, now I don't have any air being directed through the cooler, it just dumps out the bottom. My semi-fix was to put a switch-driven fan on my remote oil cooler. A-1-SUPARS now.

Posted by: Gint Apr 26 2005, 06:56 AM

QUOTE (Reiche @ Apr 26 2005, 01:20 AM)

QUOTE (project914s @ Apr 25 2005, 08:19 PM) I just recently purchased a my first 914 2.0,  and I want to get the car up to date on its maintenance. First on the list is all fluid changes including new brake lines. Also I am not too familiar with these air cooled engines. My question is, can I remove the thermostat and manually keep the engine cooling flapper open permanentl? I live in Orlando, Fl and its always hot or mild. I just want the engine to run as cool as it can. Is this ok to do? In Orlando, yes, you can probably safely leave the thermostat off. It wouldn't hurt to have it on though. Using it won't make your engine run any hotter, it just lets it warm up faster. The less warm-up time the better, since that is when most cylinder wear happens. And BTW the thermostat flaps only block the air to the cylinders and heads while warming up. The oil cooler always gets full airflow.

I wouldn't pull it off, there is no need to.

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 26 2005, 07:04 AM

QUOTE (project914s @ Apr 25 2005, 10:56 PM)

Holy crap, I hope their service is good though.... because I have like 20 receipts from them performing maintenance and even a complete engine rebuild!

yeah man he keeps pushing more shit on me, and you gotta be loaded to pay for the stuff...haven't been there once when the bill wasn't at least $200-300 ......it's just crap...but yeah they are good....well most of the time, had my heater boxes fall off on the highway and i dragged them like 100 yards....

Posted by: project914s Apr 26 2005, 09:29 AM

Ok, I am confused....When the thermostat is hot it should open up the flappers thus letting in cool air, right? So if I take off the thermostat, since the flapper is spring loaded, it will always stay closed unless I manually keep it open, right?

Basicly, is the flapper normally closed or open with the spring tension?

Posted by: James Adams Apr 26 2005, 09:46 AM

Cold and hot to the human body is not the same as cold and hot to an engine.

When I lived in Florida, I never saw outside air temps near 180 to 200 degrees, which is the desired operating temp range for your engine oil. Your engine still sees a "cold" environment, even on a hot and sweaty summer Orlando day.

The faster you get the engine up to temp, the less wear you will incur. It is best to leave the thermostat in place and functioning.

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 26 2005, 09:47 AM

no if the thermostat breaks or is removed the flaps stay FULLY open....but if you have a working thermostat, leave it in there.....even mark@automotion will tell you that....

Posted by: project914s Apr 26 2005, 09:51 AM

My only concern is a malfunctioning thermostat, causing even worse damage because of overheating and high head temperatures. I guess it was put there for a reason.

Anyone know where to find one for a good price new? I am just going to replace it, for the ease of my mind...

Thanks

Posted by: James Adams Apr 26 2005, 09:53 AM

QUOTE (project914s @ Apr 26 2005, 10:51 AM)

My only concern is a malfunctioning thermostat, causing even worse damage because of overheating and high head temperatures. I guess it was put there for a reason. Anyone know where to find one for a good price new? I am just going to replace it, for the ease of my mind... Thanks

Good thought. But, I have thrown out a lot of bad thermostats - every one has failed with the bellows expanded (cooling open).

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 26 2005, 09:56 AM

well problem they are NLA (no longer avalable), so take out your haynes manual, and find out how to test your thermostat....it's supposed to be 1.28908070709709 inches longer or something(its in the manual) when stuck in boiling water for x minutes...

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 26 2005, 09:58 AM

if you keep revs around 2-3k on long routes, you'll be golden.....automotion does fine work, mark knows his stuff...get a CHT meter with the spark plug ring sensor and put it on the #3 plug....that is if you really are truly concerned....

Posted by: phantom914 Apr 26 2005, 09:58 AM

QUOTE (project914s @ Apr 26 2005, 07:51 AM)

My only concern is a malfunctioning thermostat, causing even worse damage because of overheating and high head temperatures. I guess it was put there for a reason. Anyone know where to find one for a good price new? I am just going to replace it, for the ease of my mind... Thanks

As far as I know, the thermostats are aneroid bellows and when they develop a leak they end up fully expanded so your flaps are always open.


Andrew

Posted by: project914s Apr 26 2005, 09:59 AM

I don't know, that doesn't make any sense... Since the thermostat is heat operated, thus it expands as the engine gets hotter. Doesn't the thermostat pull on the flapper downward when it expands and gets hot allowing air in? That would mean its normally closed because theres a spring tension there, and the thermostat opens it up....

Unless when the thermostat gets hot, it allows for more slack or movement to the cable and allowing the spring tension to keep it open. Meaning when the engine is cold, the thermostat is keeping the flapper closed against the forces of the spring... right?

Posted by: project914s Apr 26 2005, 10:00 AM

Nevermind I got it now, the thermostat keeps it closed when cold... and allows the spring tension to keep it open when hot.

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 26 2005, 10:01 AM

well to me it doesnt make sense that they contract, but maybe they do....hell i dunno....someone on here knows more than me...don't let the post count fool you mark knows his stuff though, i'd trust him....he just takes a long time....

Posted by: bd1308 Apr 26 2005, 10:01 AM

Posted by: project914s Apr 26 2005, 10:07 AM

Thanks for all of the replies, like I said, I don't know too much about these air cooled engines. I knew everything about my 1986 944 Turbo I had a few years ago.

Thanks

Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 26 2005, 10:09 AM

QUOTE (Brando @ Apr 26 2005, 02:48 AM)

Just remember to leave the flappers in there. No thermostat = OK. No flappers = NOT OK. THE DAPPO yanked the flappers on mine so it would "run cooler". Great, now I don't have any air being directed through the cooler, it just dumps out the bottom. My semi-fix was to put a switch-driven fan on my remote oil cooler. A-1-SUPARS now.

no flappers is bad?



my PO ripped the thermostat and flappers off too! should I try to get all of that?

Posted by: nebreitling Apr 26 2005, 10:37 AM

leave it in and working imho, BUT if you yank the flappers just make sure you leave and affix the oil cooler flap down to direct air through the cooler.

Posted by: James Adams Apr 26 2005, 10:39 AM

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Apr 26 2005, 11:09 AM)

QUOTE (Brando @ Apr 26 2005, 02:48 AM) Just remember to leave the flappers in there. No thermostat = OK. No flappers = NOT OK. THE DAPPO yanked the flappers on mine so it would "run cooler". Great, now I don't have any air being directed through the cooler, it just dumps out the bottom. My semi-fix was to put a switch-driven fan on my remote oil cooler. A-1-SUPARS now. no flappers is bad? my PO ripped the thermostat and flappers off too! should I try to get all of that?

Yes, at least put the flaps in for air direction - it's very important. You'll see when you install them (around the oil cooler).

Posted by: tat2dphreak Apr 26 2005, 10:43 AM

QUOTE (James Adams @ Apr 26 2005, 11:39 AM)

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Apr 26 2005, 11:09 AM) QUOTE (Brando @ Apr 26 2005, 02:48 AM) Just remember to leave the flappers in there. No thermostat = OK. No flappers = NOT OK. THE DAPPO yanked the flappers on mine so it would "run cooler". Great, now I don't have any air being directed through the cooler, it just dumps out the bottom. My semi-fix was to put a switch-driven fan on my remote oil cooler. A-1-SUPARS now. no flappers is bad? my PO ripped the thermostat and flappers off too! should I try to get all of that? Yes, at least put the flaps in for air direction - it's very important. You'll see when you install them (around the oil cooler).

ok, I'll have to try and get some... I don't have ANY of those parts