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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ WCC: Now that you've been to the Track?
Posted by: Mike D. Apr 26 2005, 04:28 PM
Engine did great, outside of the throttle linkage coming apart and having to be towed off the track, Yes, that was me. 
I found that my car had tremedous amount of understeer. I was really looking forward to throttle steering and drifting the car but not with the understeer conditions I was having. Oh, I was throttle stearing, but I'd let up on the throttle to upset the balance then get back on it just get the damn thing to turn. I only got into an oversteer slide once all day.
Guess I'll be going back to the drawing board on the suspension.
Still had a great day, thanks to everyone! 
Mike D.
Posted by: brant Apr 26 2005, 04:33 PM
can I change the fact that it doesn't run?
(sorry for the hi jack)
Posted by: bernbomb914 Apr 26 2005, 04:36 PM
I was very happy with mine. It turned in great with just a little oversteer but we could power slide it. The car was much better than I was as I was a little bit rusty (30 years) but got faster as the day went on. I have less than 500 miles total in a 914 so it was a steep learning curve. Had a great time and want to thank Howard and all his support for a great 3 days.
PS I want to thank Joe o'brien for all his help as he was my instructor. he was a very brave man
Bernie
Posted by: Andyrew Apr 26 2005, 04:37 PM
One big thing that me and chris (julian) found was the need for an oil cooler.
Outside of that...
Cv's
tube strengthening so that I can run
biger flares so that I can run
wide stickies
Either stronger springs or a swaybar in the rear so that I can run
bigger/ aftermarket swaybar up front
And finish off with a little more brake! ( Although mine were doing really good yesterday....)
Anyone else??
Posted by: markb Apr 26 2005, 04:56 PM
Geez, where do I start?
Front 23mm bar that I was saving for Dad's Car.
2.0 with cam & carbs that I was saving for Dad's Car.
914/6 front & rear conversion with SC calipers & 6x15 Fuchs that I was saving for Dad's Car.
Syncro for 2nd gear.
Other than those things, the car was great. 
Actually, except for an amazing lack of power, the car was ok. The front & rear broke loose at almost the exact same time, the tires (Dunlop A 2's) stuck very well (our instructor was impressed at how well), and the braking was never an issue. How could it be an issue going that slow?
Posted by: TonyAKAVW Apr 26 2005, 05:01 PM
0. Replace 2nd gear synchro (and probably slider and teeth) and 1st gear synchro for good measure
0. Adjust the clutch to engage lower
0. Fix the oil leak (pushrod tube seals and valve cover gaskets)
1. New tires
2. Rear Sway bar
3. Perhaps an adjustable front sway bar to replace my stock one.
4. I've decided that on my project car I will definitely put fender flares on and I'm strongly considering putting Boxster brakes on the front to replace the stock SC calipers. I will also run 140 lbs or heavier springs on the back and a rear sway bar too. Its getting a WRX motor and aafter looking at Scott's Porscharu conversion I got some good ideas on how to do the motor mount, etc. I was lucky enough to get a ride in that car. Sounds like a stock 2.0 but accelerates like a mother-#(@&@#) !
-Tony
Posted by: skline Apr 26 2005, 05:23 PM
I think the only thing I will change on my car is the brakes. I think I need to go with bigger fronts, other than that, my car handled just fine. As for power, it is what it is, a stock 2 liter with D-Jet. Reliable, good gas mileage and so on. The motor is fairly new so I think as long as it is running so good, I will just leave it. After all, it is just an A/X car/driver. Besides, I can run in stock class with it. 
Tony, I thought your tires had pretty good grip for street tires. I may get a set of those for my other wheels for the street. But you need some heavier springs and maybe a rear bar. I may have some springs for you. I just need to decide which to run on mine, the 140's or the 165's. I will know once I go to the next Riverside A/X.
Posted by: Travis Neff Apr 26 2005, 05:28 PM
Me, nuttin'
Fix a clunk in the rear of the car? learn how to push them pedals and turn that round thingy that sits right in front of me. So far the only thing I know that needs improving is me.
Posted by: Travis Neff Apr 26 2005, 05:38 PM
I guess I lied.. real seatbelts.
Posted by: SLITS Apr 26 2005, 05:40 PM
Buy some tiars (and quit drinking Tequila)
Posted by: TonyAKAVW Apr 26 2005, 05:43 PM
| QUOTE |
| Tony, I thought your tires had pretty good grip for street tires. I may get a set of those for my other wheels for the street. But you need some heavier springs and maybe a rear bar. I may have some springs for you. I just need to decide which to run on mine, the 140's or the 165's. I will know once I go to the next Riverside A/X. |
I know the springs I have in the back are stiffer than stock, but I don't know for certain what they are. Someone once told me they felt like 140 lb springs, but who knows. The tires are Dunlop SP Sport tires and I don't know if they are still sold. I bought them in the summer of 2001, they had maybe two and a half years of use before I chopped up my first 914, then they sat until June of last year when I put them on this car. I noticed that after a couple years they did begin to feel noticeably harder. I remember when they were new they felt pretty good.
-Tony
Posted by: Travis Neff Apr 26 2005, 05:43 PM
No can do amihole.. me likes the funny smellin drinks
Posted by: ablose58 Apr 27 2005, 02:39 PM
Only thing I want to change is heavier rear springs but other than that my car was pretty well glued to the track 
Slits even said so himself 
Posted by: sean_v8_914 Apr 27 2005, 02:58 PM
Ya'll think I really need a swaybar?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: Andyrew Apr 27 2005, 03:00 PM
No, you need more rear spring.
Posted by: markb Apr 27 2005, 03:01 PM
About as much as I do.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: SirAndy Apr 27 2005, 03:03 PM
| QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Apr 27 2005, 12:58 PM) |
| Ya'll think I really need a swaybar? |
you were one of the few that had a perfect line through there ...
sway bars would help making you faster.
Andy
Posted by: rhodyguy Apr 27 2005, 03:16 PM
suspension wise, nothing, other than match the rear control arm bushings with the elephants i put on the front. when we left i didn't bother to turn the konis down from the 1/2 turn i put on them for the track. car felt much more stable at freeway cruising. so, around town full soft, and make the adjustment as driving dictates. the truck lane on 101 from gilmore was killing me. you guys with the autocross setups must have been getting hammered.
k
Posted by: andys Apr 27 2005, 03:35 PM
The Streets is a tough little track for most cars. All those slow corners make even a well set up car struggle. I does bring out the worst in a car, so I suppose that's a good thing to see such dramatic handling behavior. You'll quickly know when you're going in the right direction or not (set up wise, that is ). Were you guys running the abbreviated short course? Any lap times?
Andy
Posted by: Duffster Apr 27 2005, 03:38 PM
tranny with a good center bearing... LSD... shorter 4th and 5th,
oh wait! I was already gonna do all that
Posted by: markb Apr 27 2005, 03:44 PM
Yeah, she does lean just a tad, doesn't she? 
The car ran great the whole weekend. I pushed it really hard the last few laps, and got it into the red, temp-wise. Load up all our crap, and the car wouldn't start. 
Push started it, drove up to Ventura for gas & eats. Parked on a slope just in case. After dinner, she started right up. Drove it yesterday, no prob. Went to start it this morning, no start. 
Wouldn't it figure, todays the day I have to pick up a couple of cars and can't get my car to the shop until tomorrow. Oh, well, We'll get to it.
Posted by: airsix Apr 27 2005, 04:43 PM
What kind of event were you guys running? That's an awful lot of cars at the limit closely spaced. 
(referring to the pic of 4 cars one car-length apart on the track) If the lead car spun it'd look like a train wreck. Glad there were no incidents.
-Ben M.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 27 2005, 04:50 PM
That was a farely low speed corner (3rd gear) and if the front car spins... they go to the inside of the track out of the way (I watched it happen 2-3 times)
Now. Saying that: the cars *can* come back across the track, but most of them got the car stopped before it came back across the track.
I'm also betting most people where in second gear. The faster guy's would have been in 3rd gear about 2500rpm
B
Posted by: Andyrew Apr 27 2005, 04:59 PM
That corner was right after I downshifted from 4th to 3rd....
I think I was above 2k at that corner, never got to look at the tach, but I didnt have bog problems...
I know I kept it in 4th lots of times..
Posted by: carreraguy Apr 27 2005, 07:47 PM
Regretably, I only had time to do three sets. I need more experience and practice being smoother before I can decide what I need. I do know that the new front sway bar helped a lot!
Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 27 2005, 07:52 PM
Tom,
I personally thought you did very well. Your car should have been balanced nicely. I set the bar on that car after using a skid pad close to the shop. I watched you "get" the line as you progressed.
B
Posted by: Brando Apr 27 2005, 07:54 PM
I've reached the limits in my car as it is now.
1. New brakes.
2. Poly-Bronze bushings.
3. 2056 engine.
4. Front & Rear swaybars.
5. New Tyars, mine just dont grip as good as I thought.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 27 2005, 07:59 PM
Damn it.
I wish I would have known that we had cars attending the event with the Poly setup in them. I drove a car with roller bearings.. would have LOVED to test both cars on the track hitting the birm.
I rode in one car with plastic.. then jumped into the roller bearing car... NIGHT AND DAY difference when I placed the car on the birm.
B
Posted by: ! Apr 27 2005, 07:59 PM
| QUOTE (airsix @ Apr 27 2005, 02:43 PM) |
| What kind of event were you guys running? That's an awful lot of cars at the limit closely spaced. (referring to the pic of 4 cars one car-length apart on the track) If the lead car spun it'd look like a train wreck. Glad there were no incidents. -Ben M. |
You weren't even there. How can you comment on spacing? It's a DE.....
Posted by: nebreitling Apr 27 2005, 08:15 PM
i'm gonna put a louder horn in to signal for people to get out of the damn way!!!
(and maybe some 'real' front shocks as opposed to the who-knows-what-30-year-old-crap-is-in-there-now. at 100mph, my front end was really starting to float..)
Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 27 2005, 08:19 PM
Nathan,
for future reference... ASK to be moved into a faster group... The organizers have no idea about peoples skill levels. You have to let them know.
B
Posted by: nebreitling Apr 27 2005, 08:22 PM
yeah, probably. but i only have two highspeed events under my belt -- ever -- and none in the 914. i thought 'blue' would be appropriate. didn't matter, the GF had to get home so we left early. sad but she's worth it 
Posted by: brer Apr 27 2005, 08:53 PM
I think i would like a second car. Stripped and proper for that kind of business.
I think dont think I'll be larking around in the green one again.
She would need way too much, and I feel guilty treating her rough.
Posted by: ! Apr 27 2005, 08:56 PM
Quote...
I think i would like a second car. Stripped and proper for that kind of business.
I think dont think I'll be larking around in the green one again.
She would need way too much, and I feel guilty treating her rough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Check my BLOG....Manfred is still available.....
Posted by: jkeyzer Apr 27 2005, 09:07 PM
| QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Apr 26 2005, 03:28 PM) |
| Fix a clunk in the rear of the car? |
Hey, that's what I need to do!
Scott, it came back the next day just like I said it would.
Posted by: rdauenhauer Apr 27 2005, 11:19 PM
| QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 27 2005, 06:19 PM) |
| Nathan, for future reference... ASK to be moved into a faster group... The organizers have no idea about peoples skill levels. You have to let them know. B |
For Sure
I moved myself down from the Red to Yellow group because I was out Motor'ed big time and just holding people up.
Posted by: jimtab Apr 27 2005, 11:23 PM
I'm gonna install 5 place belts on the passenger side so my instructors will be more comfortable, get stickier tires, and tighten the nut behind the wheel,,,,get more butt time. Felt I did ok tho...oh and change the fuc+in brake fluid before track events from now on...it's bad luck to run out of brakes in the BRAKING ZONE! It can cause a spin...ask me how I know..... 
Posted by: Andyrew Apr 27 2005, 11:53 PM
Oh, I forgot...
I need to fix a sticking throttle cable...
Sticks at 1/2 throttle (after going WOT) on the clutch cable... Tap the clutch and its out... (figured that the 3rd time...)
It wasnt fun at the end of the long straight... Lets just say I could smell my brakes... and its NICE having more brake than hp... (after a 2 seconds of braking, clutch in and turned off the key... put it in neutral and started the car in the next corner...)
I think I'll do like Andy said and put a metal bracket in between the two... Keep em from sticking against each other...
Posted by: markb Apr 28 2005, 12:08 AM
| QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 27 2005, 06:56 PM) |
| Quote... I think i would like a second car. Stripped and proper for that kind of business. I think dont think I'll be larking around in the green one again. She would need way too much, and I feel guilty treating her rough. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check my BLOG....Manfred is still available..... |
Ummm, brer? DO IT!!
Posted by: airsix Apr 28 2005, 12:20 PM
| QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 27 2005, 05:59 PM) |
| You weren't even there. How can you comment on spacing? It's a DE..... |
Well Mike, I'm commenting on the spacing because I'm STARING at a picture of it. I wasn't trying to be a jerk about it - just making an observation and voicing a concern. Maybe the concern is unfounded. Maybe not. If it were a true DE event with instructors, safety equipment, and track-ready cars then I guess there's nothing to be concerned about. Something else bothering you?
-Ben M.
Posted by: ! Apr 28 2005, 01:04 PM
Your signature block bugs me....
Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 28 2005, 01:14 PM
Then dont use avitars that *might* offend ANYONE. Pretty simple solution. Dont use anything that you wouldnt show your daughters.
B
Posted by: rhodyguy Apr 28 2005, 01:18 PM
ben, the picture is a little deceptive. slow portion of the track on the road couse. we had signed releases and understood what were about to risk. that's one of the reasons is didn't stick around for the later sessions. got on and off the track with a running car that carried me home. i know when to conceed. 2 passing zones and people respected the blue with a yellow stripe flag.
k
Posted by: Brando Apr 28 2005, 01:32 PM
Z, you're kind of sounding like one of those Assdragger Pocketbook racers...
...oh yeah. 
Posted by: airsix Apr 28 2005, 02:00 PM
| QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Apr 28 2005, 11:18 AM) |
| ben, the picture is a little deceptive. slow portion of the track on the road couse. we had signed releases and understood what were about to risk. |
That's cool.
-Ben M.
Posted by: airsix Apr 28 2005, 02:04 PM
| QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 28 2005, 11:04 AM) |
| Your signature block bugs me.... |
I can live with that.
-Ben M.
Posted by: brer Apr 28 2005, 05:05 PM
| QUOTE |
| Ummm, brer? DO IT!! biggrin.gif |
Hmmmmmmmz. I like the color.
I think i need to test drive it for the weekend.
And maybe get a second job.
Posted by: ! Apr 28 2005, 06:14 PM
| QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 28 2005, 11:14 AM) |
| Then dont use avitars that *might* offend ANYONE. Pretty simple solution. Dont use anything that you wouldnt show your daughters. B |
Brad...Kind of contradictory from your opening statement when this forum came on line....
As to MY avatars...my kids think they are funny.
The avatars CAN be turned off..."I" have to look at his BS sig line everytime he posts.
I haven't forgotten that flame he started awhile back either....
Posted by: Headrage Apr 28 2005, 06:21 PM
Havent been to the freaking track!!! Car broke down and I missed 75% of the WCC. You are all Bastards!
Posted by: Howard Apr 28 2005, 06:35 PM
| QUOTE (airsix @ Apr 28 2005, 01:00 PM) | ||
That's cool. -Ben M. |
Couple of things. There's a photographic effect (called foreshortening IIRC) that comes into play. Second, this was the 'red' run group, instructors and guys with real track experience who know how to drive. The other groups kept a more suitable distance.
To give you a better idea of how it looked on the track, my 'chasing' Jim Tabor in the 'novice' group.
http://www.thehowardagency.com/914/jimtab.wmv
Safety first. Think we had 4 or 5 spins that day, and Willow is the perfect place to do it.
Posted by: ! Apr 28 2005, 06:42 PM
Yep...I had two of the more experienced track people I know spin in front of me after the very fast downhill chicane. I had just let them bye on the short straight....one of the only two passing areas.
I had a feeling in my gut...no it wasn't the tekillya from the night before 
....that they were going in too hot.....I was right and was able to back off of the go pedal and did not follow them into the infield.
The lead driver actually spun went off and recrossed to the other side. Quite a dust cloud....I was lucky to have not tee boned him.
Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 28 2005, 07:03 PM
Howard,
Do you know when that video was shot ? Early or late in the day ?
Any idea who was Jim's instructor ??
B
Posted by: Howard Apr 28 2005, 07:43 PM
| QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 28 2005, 06:03 PM) |
| Howard, Do you know when that video was shot ? Early or late in the day ? Any idea who was Jim's instructor ?? B |
Before lunch, not sure who was instructing. But you can see the 'fudge factor' on that very forgiving track.
Posted by: SirAndy Apr 28 2005, 07:44 PM
| QUOTE (Brad Roberts @ Apr 28 2005, 05:03 PM) |
| Any idea who was Jim's instructor ?? |
yeah, he was all over the place, looks like he was trying to stay *off* the line instead of finding it ...
Andy
Posted by: Brad Roberts Apr 28 2005, 07:57 PM
Thanks Howard.. just making sure it wasnt shot at the end of the day when Jim should have had "the line" nailed. I wheeled a few cars around those Yok's Jim was running and they stick very well for a street tire.
B
Posted by: airsix Apr 28 2005, 11:48 PM
| QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 28 2005, 04:14 PM) |
| I haven't forgotten that flame he started awhile back either.... |
Mike, please refresh my memory. I'd like to see the thread you're referring to. I don't recall starting any flames. You're either confusing me with someone else or my memory has failed me (definitely a possibility). If I'm wrong I am prepared to stand corrected.
-Ben M.
Posted by: jeff Apr 29 2005, 12:04 AM
U guys got me really motivated to get my 914 conversion finished ,thanks for a great time!I had to make my little m3 squeel just to keep up! 
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