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Posted by: boxsterfan Dec 30 2016, 09:13 PM

As I sit here pondering my 914 restore, I was wondering what others thought the breakpoint was for adding flares to a 914 vs staying narrow body?

Seems like at a certain horsepower, you are going to need some more rubber for the road. What's the general thought? Is it around 175HP (~2.7L /6 ?), 190HP (~3.0L /6 ?), 220HP (3.2L /6 ?) or more?

I recognize that there are also some considerations with tire choices also. Even on the narrow body car, you may have to roll the fender just a bit to get a bigger tire on there just for the sake of selection/choice of manufacturer tires.

Posted by: colingreene Dec 30 2016, 09:16 PM

I think that it has a lot to do with expectations of how the car should behave and how you drive it.

Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 30 2016, 09:46 PM

For a street car I don't really think there is a HP "must be flared" breakpoint, just a "I want / I don't want" personal taste point.

Racing is a different ball of wax.

I'm staying narrow body with a 3.0, 10:1CR twin plug, GE60, webers....going with 5 bolt fuchs 205/65-15 tires.
I don't plan to race my car.

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 30 2016, 10:24 PM

I run 225 tires on the street which one could easily fit under a narrow body car.

I gots me some 300+ horses ...

Posted by: Steve Dec 30 2016, 10:47 PM

If you drive nice it's not a problem. My issue was throttle induced oversteer. Just upgrading to a 2.7 six with webers, caused very dangerous throttle induced oversteer with my car. I only had this problem when giving it to much gas in a corner
Curious if a limited slip differential would of helped?? Instead I cut off the rear fenders and installed 993 16" rims with 245 series tires, that and a stiffer roll bar up front, helped a lot. I bought a set of fiberglass Gt rear flairs and riveted them on. Now even with modest throttle in a corner, the car will just slide sideways versus spinning out.

Posted by: mgp4591 Dec 30 2016, 11:15 PM

Scotty?? Any reply?
He's running a GM LS type V8 with probably over 300hp and gobs more torque all mated up to a Boxster 6 spd. Narrow body. It rotates enough on mountain roads to make you require a change... of shorts.

Posted by: raynekat Dec 31 2016, 01:13 AM

I'll be doing the "narrow body" thing.....no flares with a 2.7 240hp flat six.
Like some have said....it's not the horsepower....it's how you want the car to look.

Posted by: sixaddict Dec 31 2016, 05:43 AM

Several have come close to saying it......to me from a performance perspective track or ax car needs flares to get enough rubber to really make it go once you hit a healthy HP....otherwise you are giving up time.

Posted by: mepstein Dec 31 2016, 06:38 AM

We drop a lot of built 3.2's and 3.6's into early narrow body 911's. It really does depend how you plan to drive the car. Sometimes a little tire slip can be fun. Today's tires offer a lot more grip than years ago. If you decide you need flares, you can always add them on later. I wanted at least one 914 with flares because I've always liked the look.

Posted by: 914dave Dec 31 2016, 07:09 AM

I wrestled with this for quite a while. For a street car it's about the style you want. Like driving a Sunbeam Tiger or TVR. Lots of hp for the rubber. But I contacted Campbellcj ,
914R project and asked him what he thought. He ran narrow body for a long time with a lot of track time before he switched to wide body. He said the traction coming out of the corners and braking was noticably improved. Made the car more stable in extreme conditions. Send him a pm. He's a good guy to talk to. It pushed me to flares. My car will be street and regular autocross. Good luck.
BTW I'm running a US spec 3.2 with a Steve Wong chip. 235 +/-

Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 31 2016, 08:01 AM

The flip side to this question is that even with a 120hp type 4, that you plan to seriously AX or take to the track, you likely would want to add flares and wider tires.

You are forgetting it's a package as a whole, to get better handling for racing you need to add stiff springs, torsion and sway bars, corner balance, stiffen the tub, roll bars, etc....all this stuff is what makes it handle, but it also can make it ride like a truck.
Great for the track but it would really suck on a long distance run and a wife/GF is definitely not going to like it.
Also with flares and wide tires your gas milage will go down.
Adding flares and wide tires without the suspension work is just fluff, a personal taste addition to make it look pretty. Tires alone will not make it handle better.

Another consideration to me is the overall condition of the car, adding flares to a car that's had tons of rust/crash repairs is no big deal. But I'd have to think long and hard about adding flares to mint car or real /6.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Dec 31 2016, 12:37 PM

IMHO there is not HP level where flares are required for street driving.

For the track, your very very very first step is to read the rule book until you understand it. That is also your second, third, and fourth step. Sometimes flares are not allowed, and sometimes they are only allowed with other changes that you may or may not want to make, or only allowed in "cubic dollar" classes where you will be a moving chicane without dumping serious money into the car.

Mark's point about 120 HP is also spot-on; you can probably improve your times going with wider rubber even if you have a modest amount of HP, but you have to do other stuff to properly take advantage of it.

--DD

Posted by: MoveQik Dec 31 2016, 04:18 PM

I ran my 3.2 with a narrow body for 9 years and never felt the "need" for more rubber. I just ran really good tires. I eventually wanted the look of wider meats on the back so I did the cut & pull routine on my rears. Now I run 16x8's with 225's. Unfortunately, the Falkens I have now are not anywhere near the tire that my narrower BFG's were.

I'm doing my best to wear these out so I can go back to BFG's

Posted by: Mike Bellis Dec 31 2016, 09:04 PM

I have flares and 9" wheels with 245/50/16 tires. I find my 300+ hp can quickly exceed the friction coefficient of my tires...

Posted by: Andyrew Dec 31 2016, 11:43 PM

~295 sticky tires on the rear. In first I can spin the tires easy when the boost comes on even at my ~275hp lowest setting. Second gear which is from 45-80mph it will get a little light footed at over 14psi, probably about 350hp,

On the track I have to be very gentle out and through any corner.


Please note this is with an open diff. LSD is coming shortly.
But that just means more boost

Posted by: tomrev Jan 1 2017, 12:39 PM

I think it's 98% about looks for most folks; remember, as you add the flares, you suddenly have to add the fat tires/wheels, and a bunch of un-sprung weight. As an autoX'er you now have a much wider car to fit thru gates, etc. I equally like the look, both narrow, and flared, but left my 3.L six, with 240hp, and my current 3.5 Honda six narrow bodied, with seven's and 205's, mostly because I like the clean look, and with the six, even with a lot of racing, it was only a problem trying to put power down exiting very narrow corners. On the street, there are too many other limiters, like surface sand/gravel unexpected shit , cops, speed limits (some times, any way), other traffic. Even with 300hp, if you find you are out of shape too often in a street car, I think you need to work on your technique, or try to find a track, where most of the limiters are removed, and then see if it's grip alone you need, or more talent.

Posted by: boxsterfan Jan 1 2017, 07:45 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I'm still mulling the /6 vs the 2270 /4 for my car. I had intended to stay narrow body because I like the look. For the /6, I'd probably be looking at a 3.0L or 3.2L.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 1 2017, 10:00 PM

Love the six, it's what I'm doing...but damn expensive to do right.

I hope the wife never finds all the bills

Posted by: MoveQik Jan 2 2017, 12:47 PM

I too am a fan of the narrow body :-) If you want to maintain that look(for the most part) you can cut and pull the rear fenders to get wider tires. There are several ways to do it but this is what I came up with.




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Jan 2 2017, 02:14 PM

My car is a track only car. Narrow body with a 2258cc/4. My HP is about 130 at the wheels. I believe were right at the breaking point. She's so fun to wheel around Sebring that I can't imagine a better car for me.
With that said, I to was thinking about installing a 6. Our race series, Chumpcar, just allowed 6 cylinder cars to enter. We could be a to ten car for sure.
I just think of what can of worms that opens up. I own flares, just never installed them. I love the narrow look too. What to do....
This stuff keeps me up at night.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 2 2017, 04:00 PM

Right around 76hp is where you'll want to consider adding flares.

Posted by: Beach914 Jan 2 2017, 04:21 PM

I have the white 74 that I just bought with a non original 2.0L. I originally thought to use up the steel AA flares and rockers I received from doing the group buy a few years back. Now spending more time around the body and finding out how clean it is, rust wise, I am torn between doing the flares and keeping it narrow body. To me it was never about the horsepower but more about the look.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 2 2017, 10:26 PM

Perfect!

Posted by: maf914 Jan 3 2017, 07:29 AM

Well put! I was thinking the same thing.

If you like the look, you like the look.

Posted by: boxsterfan Jan 3 2017, 01:22 PM

That narrow body look with the 5-lugs, chrome bumpers, sail panel vinyl is definitely my favorite 914 look. It's all in the stance.

It would save me a lot of time if you could paint yours Alaska Blue Metallic and sell it to me. ;-)

Posted by: raynekat Jan 4 2017, 01:43 AM

What Donahue say? When you can spin the tires the entire length of the front straight....then you had enough HP? Same with flares...when you can do that...you need flares.

Posted by: MoveQik Jan 4 2017, 10:07 AM

Gladly! Everything has a price

Posted by: gandalf_025 Jan 4 2017, 11:14 AM

Not necessarily a Horsepower breakpoint..
More of a visual breakpoint.
Which look do you prefer ?? Stock or flared..??

I'd never cut up a solid car and flare it..
But that is my personal preference..
If I had a car that needed a lot of work and
fender replacement anyway, you never know..

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 4 2017, 11:34 AM

I must say I loved my narrow body V8 conversion. I could throttle drift any turn and it was a blast!

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 4 2017, 11:13 PM

I draw the line at V8. More for the torque than the weight.

I've got 200hp on 225 tires on rolled fenders and it's just about right. My future upgrade Z motor does 287hp, Nissan stock tires being 235, so maybe flares maybe not.
No track, just street.

Posted by: Coondog Jan 5 2017, 05:59 AM

Plus one on MoveQiks 914. Rear fenders are very tastefully done...

One of the nicest 914s I have personally seen.......or maybe I just think YELLOW 914s look BADASS.......

Posted by: 6freak Jan 5 2017, 08:58 AM

its all about the right foot and keeping the speed within your abilitly! it dont matter how much HP you have if you can drive/control it ..flares and fat tires or not...what im saying is big motors and fat tires will not make you fast only seat time will, in whatever set up you go with..but I do love the look of flared cars ..good luck