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Posted by: altitude411 Jan 17 2017, 05:47 PM

Does anyone know the lot # for the 914-6's at the BJ auction in Scottsdale? TIA

Posted by: SKL1 Jan 17 2017, 05:53 PM

Was just at BJ this AM- missed the 6. Not hard with all the cars and crowds there!
Did see one at Bonhams this afternoon- see other post...

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 17 2017, 05:56 PM

Ah... maybe I'm mis-informed. I was under the impression there were a couple at Barrett. Thanks SKL1

Posted by: michael7810 Jan 18 2017, 07:53 AM

I'm working at BJ and have not seen a 914.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 18 2017, 10:15 AM

There's one at Bonhams,. I couldn't find one at RM Sothby's, but was under the expression that there was yet another one somewhere at Scottsdale.

It'll be interesting to see what they sell for.

Posted by: Mike Fitton Jan 18 2017, 10:37 AM

Can we see a picture of you with your "Red Tie" on?

Posted by: puffinator Jan 18 2017, 10:42 AM

There is one for sale on Ebay. It is mine!!

Posted by: forrestkhaag Jan 18 2017, 10:53 AM

I'm loving the scarcity...


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: michael7810 Jan 18 2017, 01:05 PM

Ha...they don't give red ties to the drivers. But we do get to drive some pretty cool cars.

Posted by: SKL1 Jan 19 2017, 02:35 PM

Just back from Gooding- there was a nice 914-6 which is in the database here. Stove top Mahles, nice paint. Much nicer than the one at Bonhams.
Estimate 80-100... time will tell.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 19 2017, 04:32 PM

Man, that Gooding and Company Six is beautiful. Hope it hits the estimate and just keeps going.

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 19 2017, 05:24 PM

Fit and finish

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 19 2017, 08:11 PM

'71 911T just crossed the block at Barrett for $57,000

'73 highly modded 911T $36,000 someone lost their ass and someone got a great buy

'78 911 RS replica $60,000

Posted by: flat4guy Jan 19 2017, 08:59 PM

They were talking about the 73 on the Tiger FB page, seemed like a great price for someone. I wonder if the prices are finally falling back to reality?

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 19 2017, 09:01 PM

There's gotta be more to the story? I mean I know modded doesn't sell like original but that seemed like a nicer car than 36k

Posted by: Coondog Jan 19 2017, 09:19 PM

I would not have known it was a 1973, maybe a 1986. That's what killed its value there was nothing original and looked way over modded with its fake turbo vents and rear bumper vents. But that was the look people wanted in the late 80s. It would have brought twice the money if they left it stock.

Prices aren't falling unless you over mod a Porsche to make it look 15 years newer.....

Posted by: Michael N Jan 20 2017, 09:39 AM

Bonhams sold...

Posted by: gcrotvik Jan 20 2017, 09:57 AM

Car belongs to a member here.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=302362

Posted by: SKL1 Jan 20 2017, 12:30 PM

I'd love to have that in my garage! So MUCH nicer than the one at Bonhams. Should watch the bidding and jump in if price reasonable!!

Posted by: Coloradocurt Jan 22 2017, 07:34 AM

Anyone know what the car at Gooding sold for??

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 22 2017, 10:53 AM

''Anyone know what the car at Gooding sold for??''

90 k

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=302362&pid=2446591&st=0&#entry2446591

Posted by: larryM Jan 22 2017, 05:41 PM

if we look at the Europe auctions over the last few yrs, it is interesting that modded 914-6s and 911s get very high prices - perhaps those buyers are not as afflicted with the originality fetish as we in USA?

Posted by: socal1200r Jan 22 2017, 08:08 PM

$90K for a 914-6?! Were they smoking crack or something?! That's insane, and not in a good way...

Posted by: sixaddict Jan 22 2017, 08:50 PM

Estimate was for 80-100K so it came in the middle and actually pretty logical based on the quality of the build.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 22 2017, 08:57 PM

Top notch restoration and probably not a bad deal when one looks at restoration costs. Glad the owner was happy with the result!

Posted by: dlkawashima Jan 22 2017, 09:05 PM

Having seen the car in person, I can say without hesitation that it is one of the best 914-6 restorations I've seen ... spare no expense. I'm sure the owner spent more than "$5K - $6K on a frickin paint job."

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 22 2017, 09:22 PM

The owner had to sell this car for personal reason's... not because he was trying to make a buck.I'm sure he had more into it then it sold for. It's not cheap or easy to get a car restored to this condition. Ask any of us who are trying. So when someone says are you smoking crack. It just shows your ignorance. I feel for this owner at having to sell. You spend your time building your dream, chasing the correct parts, dealing with bad vendors that just want to steal your money, buying rusted shit that people pass off as pristine and when you finally get it to somewhere close to what you dreamed of... you have to sell it.

If it was easy... crack dealers would be doing it.

Posted by: smg914 Jan 22 2017, 09:39 PM

A beautiful car for sure but I question the lack of detail. Puzzling why so many areas are wrong on a car that went through such a major restoration. The only thing I can deduce is that whoever did the restoration either didn't know the 914-6 or didn't care enough to do the research.
To name a few examples:
Headlight surrounds should be white not black.
Incorrect (late version) rear view mirror.
Euro rear lenses on a US car.
The fog light switch is in the wrong location
Rear window defogger switch is in the wrong location.
Front trunk lid cable catheter is painted orange (should be white)
Front alignment plates & bolts are painted orange (should be plated)
The top of shock towers should be coated with black undercoating.
The left front headlight motor is missing the manual black knob.
Some tools missing and some of the tools are incorrect.
VIN area on top of the inner wheel well should be painted orange.

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 22 2017, 09:44 PM

Those are all minor nit-pic shit. Please. Does it stroke your ego to make a list like that? Arm chair quarter backs are a dime a dozen. This is a beautiful car

Posted by: smg914 Jan 22 2017, 09:48 PM

You obviously didn't get my point.

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 22 2017, 09:50 PM

Obviously... I didn't realize you were a concourse judge flexing your muscles and shining your new badge. My apologies.

Posted by: dlkawashima Jan 22 2017, 11:31 PM

No, no, it's a valid criticism. For the amount of effort (and expense) that went into the restoration, the car should be just about perfect. I have to admit that I noticed only the rear view mirror and the euro taillights. On the other hand, most of us can only dream of owning a car of this quality (I know you have several) and can forgive the minor flaws.

Posted by: raynekat Jan 22 2017, 11:41 PM

I would add....if this much is obviously incorrect, how much more is there that is hidden that is not right? Just proves it's difficult to do these cars absolutely correct.

Still a great looking car.

There's another nice looking example on Ebay right now.
With a price of $150k.
Beauty.

Posted by: Archie Jan 23 2017, 12:54 AM

I've sort of looked at the goings-on at BJ over the weekend, and the prices on all the cars seem to be awfully low, or is it just me?

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 23 2017, 01:38 AM

Some good deals. Depends how many serious bidders are interested in a particular car. Some added price to what you see bid are 10-15% premiums and cost to ship home or haul yourself, getting to and from the auction, hotels ect...

Posted by: socal1200r Jan 23 2017, 05:40 AM

So it sold for $90K, and he had more than that into it?! On a 914?!

This is delusional, and apparently, if someone was willing to pay $90K for it, that delusional mentality is contagious.

I'm not saying it's not a nice car, it is, but not $90K nice, IMO. But hey, when you're talking supply and demand, opinions don't count for much, especially at an auction like that.

Glad that the owner sold it for that much, good for him. Just strengthens the market for all of us other 914 owners...

Posted by: toolguy Jan 23 2017, 09:23 AM

it's very easy to stick $60 grand in the parts, paint and motor to make one correct, with the real Six parts . . . not to mention the full year of labor it takes. . My last one hit 1800 hours when fully complete. . $90K is a correct price for this car

Posted by: KELTY360 Jan 23 2017, 10:25 AM

Can't wait to see how much you ask when you sell your 914 because it wasn't worth a $5k paint job.

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 23 2017, 10:34 AM

LOL your batting 1000...another post to reaffirm your ignorance.

Posted by: iwanta914-6 Jan 23 2017, 10:37 AM

That Gooding six is amazing. I just don't have $90K for one.

Posted by: socal1200r Jan 23 2017, 11:15 AM

Well you guys just keep on drinking that 914 Kool-Aid...

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 23 2017, 11:21 AM

No, just recognizing that the values of these cars are no longer the bargain they once were.

--DD

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 23 2017, 11:30 AM

..and you keep doing whatever it is your doing

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 23 2017, 11:44 AM

To get a restoration to this level takes personal commitments, they include time,
enthusiasm, money, patience, research, deals, a dream and more.
The seller didn't make money. He gave it away.

Posted by: GregAmy Jan 23 2017, 12:02 PM

I can't believe the level of dickishness in this thread - mostly from one person - is being tolerated here.

Posted by: KELTY360 Jan 23 2017, 12:05 PM

He's just a guy working with alternative facts.

Posted by: championgt1 Jan 23 2017, 12:24 PM

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jan 23 2017, 05:20 PM

Back on topic.

$90,000 is strong money, though exceptional "stock and original" 914-6s have reportedly sold for $110,000-130,000 in private sales over the last 12-24 months. No idea if those cars would have gone higher or lower in the current marketplace. A 912 coupe went for six figures in Scottsdale, so there's that too. Yes, crazy. But also: reality. I like 912s and 914-6s and 914s and garden variety early 911s, though my interest (for purchasing or daydreaming) becomes heavily curtailed at six figures. Would I buy my 914 today, over other automotive choices, if I hadn't been into 914s? Probably not. But a lot of the other cars I like have become similarly dear. Alfa Guilias, E30 M3s, and the list goes on...

And yes, there are a number of deviations from correct on this car, and there is nothing wrong with someone noting them in a thread like this one—discouraging that sort of intelligent and knowledgeable feedback, especially when it is shared in such an even and courteous manner—would be the opposite of what 914world is all about, wouldn't it? We are all here to learn, and to share what we know. If it's good info, there is nothing wrong with that.

Congratulations to the seller—it's a beautiful car, obviously built to your satisfaction with the goal of keeping it. Sorry you had to move it on, and I suspect for a net loss.

Posted by: gcrotvik Jan 23 2017, 06:10 PM

Thanks, Pete. Well said.

Posted by: carr914 Jan 23 2017, 06:23 PM

Hey Slappy, you were talking to THE 914-6 Expert! Have some respect and do your homework before the Brainpower of your pinkie goes to work!




Yep

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 23 2017, 06:30 PM

Posted by: altitude411 Jan 23 2017, 06:36 PM

Thanks TC, anyone else I should bow down to? Just tired of nit-picking nice cars. That's all. I really don't care who it is

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 23 2017, 07:14 PM

Nicely stated Pete.

Posted by: socal1200r Jan 23 2017, 10:10 PM

Wow, you're a real Delta Hotel, aren't you? You're one of those guys that if you were broken down on the side of the road in your 914, and I was in mine, I'd just drive right on by, and yell foxtrot yankee at you...wonder how you fit thru doors with a head as big as that...

Posted by: SKL1 Jan 23 2017, 10:39 PM

Boy between the 914-6 and a '67 912 (that went for over 100K) at Gooding this sure brings out the discussion, and fangs... (lots of opinions over at rennlist too)

I too was lucky enough to be at Gooding to see the car, and even with a couple things "wrong" I would agree (after restoring my '73 2.0) that the seller probably didn't make much on the sale, and the buyer got a great vehicle.

A yellow 6 at Bonhams went for a little over 60K- it seemed solid (or as much as you can tell crawling around a car at an auction, but had a crummy repaint and a totally unrestored interior. Unless you're really lucky, I don't think you'll ever get a deal at an auction!

I hope the buyer of the 6 enjoys it, and that we don't see it show up in a year or so at another auction...

BTW, Pete can you imagine what one of the 914-8's would go for, if they were ever "released" from the factory????

Posted by: Mowog4 Jan 23 2017, 10:40 PM

Congrats to both the buyer and the seller, auctions have an amazing ability to determine market prices. Although I do have to admit that the Kindig VW Bus for $275K seemed steep.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 24 2017, 06:49 AM

I don't think Porsche needs the money so I don't expect to ever see it up for sale but I see the pair as a million dollar cars and if I had the money, I would buy them and drive them.

Posted by: Mike Fitton Jan 24 2017, 08:17 AM

Anyone notice on the 914-6 that Bonhams sold for 60K had a 180mph speedo, then claimed original mileage of less than 27,000? Here is Bonhams wording on the mileage: "The car is listed in the 914 Registry, and it has been noted in the past that the odometer reading of less than 27,000 miles is in fact the car's original mileage."

What the hell does that mean?

Posted by: 6freak Jan 24 2017, 08:34 AM

hell ya! even with stuff incorrect .... ...

Posted by: 6freak Jan 24 2017, 08:36 AM

indeed

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 24 2017, 12:12 PM

it's the total of the $ you're going to be paying after the hammer drops that is a little alarming. a 10% buyers premium and you're at $99k. now the Washington state 'second sticker'. you're going to endure a 7.3-10.3% sales/use tax dependent upon where you live. not to include any other fees such as title agency, plates and yearly tabs. call it $7.2k using the lower tax rate. $106k after tax dollars. yipes.

what is the scenario with regards the IRS when $90K+ suddenly appears in some account? audit time?

Posted by: mepstein Jan 24 2017, 12:59 PM

There are plenty of people with money. Lots of money. I've seen car collections with 30 and 50+ cars and $100k would be on the low end. If they want it, they buy it.

A customer just wired $200K to us for an ST replica build. That didn't include the car purchase.

Posted by: 6freak Jan 24 2017, 03:12 PM

thats why im not going the auction rout......no idea what the tax man would say but Id sure like to find out...maybe

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 24 2017, 03:39 PM

If the fellow kept all his parts and labor receipts, I bet he's have a loss deduction he could take if he were in the business. It does bring up an interesting point however regarding taxation on used car sales. Though traditionally the sale of a used car is for less than it's original value, how is it handled in an appreciating asset? Long term capital gain? Where are these sales reported to the IRS?

Posted by: boxsterfan Jan 24 2017, 03:52 PM

If money was no object to me (aka Bill Gates level money), I would buy every single 914-6 that is in that condition for $90K. No questions asked.

Unfortunately, money and me....well, we tend to part ways early and often.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 25 2017, 09:53 AM

The documentation from the auction could be problematic when trying to sandbag WA state on the purchase price. 'It was only a 6k car 40 years ago' isn't going to get much traction. Don't know how other states view these types of purchases.

Posted by: Mike Fitton Jan 25 2017, 10:12 AM

I think auction sales are treated just like auto dealers so if you are registering the car in the state that the auction is in they collect the sales tax and pay it to the state. Out of state you pay sales tax on the car when you register it in your state. Private party sales are fair market value of the car, you can low ball the figure but if they are on top of it they will contest it. Attached Sales Tax chart for Illinois.

Capital gains for the seller is on his own for reporting but an auction sale is a very public event.




 RUT_5.pdf ( 34.82k ) Number of downloads: 195

Posted by: mountainroads Jan 25 2017, 10:20 AM

I'm no CPA, but I CAN speak from personal experience on this. And, in Wa State, FWIW. Sold early 911E for considerably more than I paid for it due to appreciation. My CPA said "Who the hell sells a used car for more than they paid for it?"

Yes, it's reportable and a cap gains hit. I kept every receipt for expenses as deductions against the gain. Unfortunately, you can't count your own labor. Still had to pay tax on net gain .

There should be no issues with IRS, assuming funds are legit and traceable. Buyer pays sales tax in Wa. State at time of title transfer. That was also deductible when I bought the car, at least for me. Neither event triggered an audit.

- MR

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 25 2017, 10:27 AM

Also in WA, you take the vehicle to a WSP inspection station. NOT safety related. We don't have that type. Verification of serial/ID #s. Pretty sure there is another fee for that as well. If there's a problem you can't register the car. One car that came up here from cal some years back, a 76' with carbs had earlier #s and perlon glued down in the trunks. was involved. The guy that boUght the car didn't even try to title it. Poof. It just sort of faded away along with his money.

Posted by: mountainroads Jan 25 2017, 10:32 AM

That's an interesting point. Isn't that only if the car comes from out-of-state? I remember doing that for the 914 I bought with Oregon plates, but haven't done that since.

- MR

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 25 2017, 10:43 AM

Oops, forgot to include the out of state purchase aspect, but you're correct. In state purchased cars don't don't have to jump that hoop.

Posted by: larryM Jan 29 2017, 02:03 PM

for exactly that reason, i eventually declined a large tempting offer for my car last year - the buyer was a California "collector-dealer" - who would report his cost as his new basis - and was paying by traceable bank transfers

IRS Publication 551 is sobering

no matter how many old receipts we have - if we are selling as individuals it's a considerable problem - especially with cars that have gone up astronomically in value in the past few yrs & as pointed out above, especially if we did a lot of work ourselves (it's just a hobby, ya' know)

the reportable gains hit made my net far too low –I don’t need the money & I still like the car; so instead I decided to get rid of a couple other cars that won’t be a tax problem & spend my waning yrs enjoying just one - maybe someday i can just swap it for something of similar value that i'd enjoy more?

i have a friend who deals in hi-$$ US-iron a lot - he only does CASH; and i've subsequently had interest in my car from a similar fellow who said up front - " I bring CASH" (that can be a reason to sell for less than "auction value")

- how one gets a lot of cash into one's bank is another matter - the banks have reporting rules to follow, including if they see a whole bunch of "under-$10K" deposits

but maybe we can be too paranoid - or maybe we have no choice but to sell (been there....)

fwiw - a friend who privately sold a collectible vintage sports racer 2 yrs ago just took & deposited 2 20K payments and nary a thing happened - no IRS, no state taxes, no bank reports, etc

‘way back in time – I used to do “1031 exchange” real estate deals that delayed some problems – but they can be intensely complex, can require multiple parties, and are often scrutinized (google it)

.

Posted by: larryM Jan 29 2017, 03:06 PM

yes - there are a helluva lot of "Personalized Porsches" in this world

- used to be that it was a mark of some distinction & pride in the Porsche world to improve our cars; make 'em faster, make 'em handle better, upgrade the wheels & tires, make 'em more pleasant to drive, etc -

- the Concours/auction-value/"restored-to-originality-appearance" mindset has diminished that (never mind what's really under the skin that cannot be touched with a white gloved finger)

value/price depends a whole lot on what one plans to do with the vehicle & what one's chosen social circle is enthusiastic about

many of us pride ourselves in owning 914-6s (& 914s) partly due to success in competition - and the factory was openly intent on using that as a marketing tool to sell all models of the car - - imho, nobody in right mind would buy & race a bone stock mechanically- & body- correct 914-6 - they simply were not up to the test

e.g., the GT competition cars were improved & modified for good reasons - nary a one ever was "showroom stock"

- a few that are arguably "worth" & "cost-to-build" several times the above subject's $90K actually do show up in PCA & major vintage racing venues .... (like RR-V - Gp-3 - SIX of them, any of which one doubts can be had for a paltry $90K if they were offered for sale)

.