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Posted by: jim_hoyland Feb 15 2017, 05:47 PM

Anyone know this car ? Interesting article in this months issue


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Posted by: 914forme Feb 16 2017, 05:01 PM

Like the body colored bumper tops

Posted by: Cracker Feb 17 2017, 07:17 PM

I was delighted to see a wonderful 11-page feature of a 914/6 conversion in the most recent copy of Panorama today. Great looking car!

Gotta love the opening line to the article, "What do you do with two ordinary Porsches? Make one special Porsche

Sorry if this has already been posted...

T



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Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 17 2017, 07:44 PM

I love that line... like the Mormon Tabernacle Chior morphing into Led Zeppelin...

Posted by: Larmo63 Feb 17 2017, 07:56 PM

I can't wait to hear my new mill.

Posted by: struckn Feb 17 2017, 08:02 PM

The Beautiful 914 is David Mathews, is he a 914 World Member here?

Posted by: mgp4591 Feb 17 2017, 08:29 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Feb 17 2017, 06:44 PM)

I love that line... like the Mormon Tabernacle Chior morphing into Led Zeppelin...

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Feb 18 2017, 03:38 PM

Posted by: GeorgeRud Feb 18 2017, 08:27 PM

Great story! I did a similar thing using my 75 Targa and a '73 914 1.7 as the sum ends up being more than the sum of the parts. A big engined 914-6 is probably one of the nicest cars to drive. Great, light handling with lots of power!

Posted by: larryM Feb 18 2017, 10:05 PM

yes- good story - questionable economics

he has a very nice car - he likes it - and he uses it
- & has an unlimited checkbook

a true personalized Porsche - no "collector value" ascribed (yet)

take a driver quality 911 Carrera worth $20-25K as it was, plus a $4K slightly rusty driver 914-2.0, and spend "thousands" (owner's words) to make the perfect "almost GT" wannabe conversion including a 3.2 rebuild & 915 rebuild/conversion (just google the cost of each)

purely a "personalized Porsche" which recent sales/offers & auction results and World posts suggest is not much valued in the marketplace

helluva lot of these conversion projects going on now-a-days -

our marketplace is replete with GT repro parts & more are being offered monthly (multiple suppliers/mfgrs of same repro stuff means the prices are going to get soft - just watch 'em on ebay as entrepreneurs' speculative inventories age)

- that means we all think we can build a "real GT" better & cheaper than the other guy did

- the "dealer option Competition Option Group 471 letter" of 03-1971 makes it all sort-of legit - (well... only for original sixes of certain lineage- models 914014 & 914019 - whatever those were??)

- and it will be arguably worth more than the other guy's, with far less "invested" cash since we did all 2000 hrs +/- labor in our own garage at no cost - and we'll have further improved on esoteric things "he" ignored (or did'na have the cash or time for)

for a comparison - consider Paul Sayegh's featured 3.6 conversion - asking price was $60K - and it sold - presumably at ask - untold cost to build


. so it goes

Posted by: larryM Feb 18 2017, 10:17 PM

parallel thread -

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=304894

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 18 2017, 10:22 PM

QUOTE(larryM @ Feb 18 2017, 08:17 PM)

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 18 2017, 11:04 PM

QUOTE(larryM @ Feb 19 2017, 01:05 AM)

Posted by: Cracker Feb 19 2017, 07:06 AM

The car is far more valuable NOW simply because of the exposure - not something the average conversion will ever come close to getting. I am almost certain this car will be in another owners garage within 3-6 months. I have seen it several times - unlimited pocketbook builds and "another" unlimited buyer has to have it - the easy way too. Good for the builders, owners and buyers. I see no reason to cut the car or decisions - it was a good read, a nice looking custom car and a teener got mad exposure. Sometimes, things just fall into place...

Tony

QUOTE(larryM @ Feb 18 2017, 11:05 PM)

Posted by: Cracker Feb 19 2017, 07:09 AM

Maybe so Rob but I wouldn't bet on it - 60k for a conversion - even as nice as Paul's would be record setting territory - for a teener. The old saying that "there's always an ass for a seat" applies to what you are saying but it might have taken quite awhile to find that special tail.

T

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Feb 19 2017, 12:04 AM)

Posted by: GeorgeRud Feb 19 2017, 07:46 AM

Some of these projects are not about money, but the excitement of actually doing the conversion. If you do it yourself, it is still an expensive proposition, but the satisfaction of completing the project and driving it is priceless!

I started mine as the values of original -6 started climbing in value and you no longer wanted to modify it. An old rusty 911 Targa was worth little back in the day, so why not take the good parts and replace the chassis? A 914 4 cylinder is a great chassis to use for such a project, so go for it if you have the skills and funds available?

Posted by: dhm Feb 19 2017, 10:38 AM

I'm the guy with the car.
During the course of my 'membership' in 914World, I've personally met a few of you, purchased parts from a couple of vendors, contacted certain members with specific questions, and occasionally...very occasionally posted.
What I've learned is a universal truth: opinions are like belly buttons, each of us has a different one.
This 914 was my very first Porsche. It stranded me on the side of the road 15 miles from my point of purchase--vapor lock. The donor Carrera was the last old Porsche that found its way into my garage. It was also the first car I wrote about. Pete published my '20-Footer' in the December 2011 issue of excellence mag.
Transformation was completely and absolutely a personal choice. I wish that I had the talent, the vision, and the time to have done the conversion myself. I do not. Therefore, I sought out the best craftsmen in my area to do the work and paid the bills.
My 914-6 conversion is exactly what I wanted. No compromise. I was able to do it; consequently, I did it. Those who have seen my car, for the most part, like it. Others tell me I should have done this or that. I smile and dismiss those comments. It's my car.
Nor did I enter this project with the thought of selling the car when the transformation was complete. I knew from the start that I would never sell the car for the cost of the conversion. That's okay with me. That was always okay with me. My youngest son loves the car, was with me during the photo shoot, and will likely end up with it when I am too old to squeeze behind the steering wheel.
Another thing I enjoy doing is writing. It was natural, therefore, to combine both my love of that old Porsche with the love of writing.
So, there you have it. Post your questions/comments if you want. If I can answer or clarify something, I will.
And yes...the sound of the 3.2l is awesome.

Posted by: Cracker Feb 19 2017, 10:46 AM

All I have to add is BRAVO!

Tony

Posted by: ndfrigi Feb 19 2017, 10:55 AM

Congratulation and good your son will have this car and to his child in the future!

Posted by: Steve Feb 19 2017, 11:13 AM

Congratulations!! Awesome car, awesome article!! I also have a 3.2 914 with a 916 trans, thanks to Martin Bott.
By the looks of the exhaust, I would guess you went with wevo for the 915?

Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Feb 19 2017, 11:13 AM

Very well stated, dpm. I do not believe anyone could question your enthusiasm, pursuit of excellence, motive, or vision. Personally, I think your car is absolutely gorgeous, an excellent example of what a 914 could have evolved into if the factory had been committed to the mid-engine design back in the '70s.

Paul

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Feb 19 2017, 12:08 PM

QUOTE(GeorgeRud @ Feb 19 2017, 05:46 AM)

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 19 2017, 12:12 PM

[quote name='Cracker' date='Feb 19 2017, 10:09 AM' post='2456068']
Maybe so Rob but I wouldn't bet on it - 60k for a conversion - even as nice as Paul's would be record setting territory - for a teener. The old saying that "there's always an ass for a seat" applies to what you are saying but it might have taken quite awhile to find that special tail.

T

[quote name='ConeDodger' date='Feb 19 2017, 12:04 AM' post='2456020']

for a comparison - consider Paul Sayegh's featured 3.6 conversion - asking price was $60K - and it sold - presumably at ask - untold cost to build


. so it goes
[/quote]

Yes. It sold at $60K and quickly. I think easily $15K - $20K more could have been had with a little patience.
[/quote]


[/quote]

Tony,
One of the things a lot of sellers forget is the international market. I've sold three cars now at top dollar to three different countries. The first time, I set the price at what I had in it. I was patient. I actually had Bird Board guys PM me and insult me because of the price. Then, I got a PM from Norway with a "what is your phone number and what time do you get up?" We chatted, as a matter of negotiation, I told him my price was firm. He asked for every photo I had, which I sent. He asked for a few more photos which I took and sent. Then, he called again and said he agreed to the price with the condition that I "facilitate" the transport, meaning I should be home and drive the car to the transport driver. This was a rough conversion car. 2.7 motor. Nowhere near stock. Barely street legal. $16K ten years ago.
My 911, admittedly nice, stone-stock, and low mileage, but sold to Germany before the 911 prices started to rise at its original sticker price.
My point is, patience and an international market and Paul's car would have sold for quite a bit more. 16 Excellence articles is a lot of provenance. I know Paul personally, he lives fairly close to me. Mine was the first butt in the passenger seat. He tends toward the obsessive-compulsive and anytime you can buy something from an obsessive-compulsive person you're getting a good bit of extra value. An example is our member Ferg. You could lick the tailpipe on anything you bought from him.
I've been offered a $116K Cayenne in trade for my 914. I've known the guy for 27 years. He doesn't kid about cars. He owns a 918 Spyder. My car is not for sale. But he keeps trying. By the way, if you guys have an exceptional 914-6 he's asked me to find one.

Posted by: Cracker Feb 19 2017, 12:34 PM

Rob - I can assure you much of what you suggest hasn't "escaped" me...although very, very nice, Paul's car can be duplicated. I believe we have a different definition and expectation of the term provenance. To me, as it relates to anything classic or old, is a history of significance to a model or brand. Therefore, Paul's car has great "exposure", same as dhm's car - but not provenance. Car's that truly hold "provenance" cannot simply be duplicated with time and money. Simply my opinion - tons of room for differing views.

T

Posted by: forrestkhaag Feb 19 2017, 01:40 PM

Very Nice Car. I agree with George Rudd / The beauty is in the doing of it. Money is useless if you don't spend it.

A 914-6 conversion will make you useful....... and broke........... all at the same time.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 19 2017, 01:49 PM

Tony,
I'm using the artistic definition of provenance, considering the beginning of its existence to be when Paul purchased the "cheese box." With the articles, we got to see him create the art, and thus can trace the art to its origin and creation. True, if you consider the other definition of provenance, we don't have a history of ownership or all the maintenance records from new. My car is very nice. By comparison, Paul's is a work of art. Before it was for sale Paul had a buyer. Even he acknowledges he could have gotten more. He didn't want the hasssle of waiting.

That exchange rate is a magical thing. The German buyer of my 911 told me he was stealing it, after the sale was complete. I just thought I was setting a price that gave room for negotiation.

Anyway, no worries. I have a lot of patience when it comes to selling cars. Some sellers are motivated. Some, more than a little motivated.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 19 2017, 04:01 PM

I think there will soon be conversion cars that get way more than $60k. Especially when they are custom shop builds. PMS would be one example. You also can't compare a private build to a shop build for a customer. While the guys on pelican understand that they will usually get less for the build than they put into it, not even including their hours, we count on making a profit.
And I do think many of the private builds are every bit and more when compared to many of the high end shops.

Posted by: 1stworks Feb 20 2017, 09:12 AM

QUOTE(1970 Neun vierzehn @ Feb 19 2017, 10:13 AM)

Posted by: jd74914 Feb 20 2017, 09:16 AM

QUOTE(dhm @ Feb 19 2017, 11:38 AM)

Posted by: GeorgeRud Feb 20 2017, 09:26 AM

Folks have to realize that garage-time spent working on projects like this still is a lot cheaper than laying on a couch in therapy! Many of us find a certain zen-like state when we're in the garage.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Feb 20 2017, 10:28 AM

QUOTE(Maltese Falcon @ Feb 19 2017, 10:08 AM)

Good observation George ...wonder what was going through the Zuffenhausen minds when they built the 916s and couple of 908 powered 914s; the 9146 unibodies were already sold out by early 1972 , so did they utilize the 4 cyl unibody for these exotic projects ?

Posted by: 6freak Feb 20 2017, 11:06 AM

if you guys have an exceptional 914-6 he's asked me to find one.
[/quote]
i just happen to know i guys thats selling a nice six give your buddy my # 1 253 370 4458

Posted by: Larmo63 Feb 20 2017, 11:06 AM

As far as the 914 in the new Panorama, it's a great looking car and the article was very well written. I love his "it's my car, fuck you" attitude.

I'm building a 2.7 conversion in my garage right now. I am inspired by people & cars like Cone Dodger Rob's, Steve's, Catorse's, who have great 914 conversions, and others. The friendship and brotherhood of the whole project is cool too. A real /6 isn't easy to find, nor is it in my "fun car" budget right now, so I keep building.

All of the thinking, the planning, the sleepless nights, the discussions on the phone, the money, the parts buying and receiving, the frustrations, the mess, the missus wondering if it will EVER be done, etc.

I salute you, David. You have a bitchin car, you wrote a great article, and the best part was the whole reason you built it: to have fun.

Who cares about money? When self driving cars are the norm, our cars will probably be legislated off of the road anyway.

Posted by: Mueller Feb 20 2017, 11:19 AM

I request a video with sound!

Posted by: TJB/914 Feb 20 2017, 01:05 PM

Congratulations

Beautiful 914-6 conversation and color

This article makes our 914's more acceptable to the deep pocket 911 guys. All Porsche guys are getting excited about 914's.
I'll sell mine for $60K to buy that 2012-14 Cayman-S:unsure:

Tom

Posted by: mountainroads Feb 20 2017, 01:11 PM

Very nice car, very well executed, and I salute the project and owner. Great article to read. As many of us know, this kind of project takes a very long time even if much of the heavy lifting is farmed out. Then it tales lots of time PLUS a lot of money .

Is it just me, or did anyone else think the car looked more like a 916 clone than a M471 914-6, based on the nose (esp. on p43), tail, and body-colored roof? I thought it was interesting that the M471 bodywork choice was written about, but no reference to a 916 comparison. Not a criticism. Just on observation.

- MR

Posted by: Mueller Feb 20 2017, 02:16 PM

QUOTE(mountainroads @ Feb 20 2017, 11:11 AM)

Very nice car, very well executed, and I salute the project and owner. Great article to read. As many of us know, this kind of project takes a very long time even if much of the heavy lifting is farmed out. Then it tales lots of time PLUS a lot of money .

Is it just me, or did anyone else think the car looked more like a 916 clone than a M471 914-6, based on the nose (esp. on p43), tail, and body-colored roof? I thought it was interesting that the M471 bodywork choice was written about, but no reference to a 916 comparison. Not a criticism. Just on observation.

- MR

Posted by: dlkawashima Feb 20 2017, 03:55 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Feb 20 2017, 12:16 PM)

QUOTE(mountainroads @ Feb 20 2017, 11:11 AM)

Very nice car, very well executed, and I salute the project and owner. Great article to read. As many of us know, this kind of project takes a very long time even if much of the heavy lifting is farmed out. Then it tales lots of time PLUS a lot of money .

Is it just me, or did anyone else think the car looked more like a 916 clone than a M471 914-6, based on the nose (esp. on p43), tail, and body-colored roof? I thought it was interesting that the M471 bodywork choice was written about, but no reference to a 916 comparison. Not a criticism. Just on observation.

- MR

916s have those ugly as sin bumpers

Even with the color matching he did on his car, there is enough character, lines and changes in depth to make it look better than a 916 setup.

^This is how the factory should have done it!

Posted by: mountainroads Feb 20 2017, 06:09 PM

Ummm... Not intended to be argumentative. Yes, there is some front bumper treatment difference, but the front oil cooler opening is very similar. For the record, I really like the look of 916s, so for me the comparison is a complement. JMO







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Posted by: ge9146 Feb 20 2017, 08:56 PM

Great article and great car dhm! You did a great job expressing your enthusiasm for your project. It has helped to rekindle some 914 passion too.

Posted by: falcor75 Feb 21 2017, 05:54 AM

Nice car and a good story.

Building the car -You- want is all that matters in the end.

Posted by: dhm Feb 21 2017, 07:06 AM

Your positive reactions/comments are validating and very much appreciated. Someone asked about WEVO. Yes, we sourced Patrick Motorsports for transmission and exhaust components (as well as other bits and pieces) and WEVO was used. Elephant Racing provided some of the suspension parts. As with any project like this, re-fabrication and modification was frequently necessary.
I mentioned some of the vendors/suppliers involved in my piece; however, their names bear repeating: Harvey Weidman (Weidman Wheels), Stefan Schleissing (GTS Classic Seats) 914 Rubber, 914 LTD to name a few.
Then, of course, the two shops who did the heavy lifting: Dean and Dave at Fabson Engineering, and Dave at Paintwerks.
Nick Berard photographed the car. I've worked with some very good photographers... Michael Alan Ross, Clint Davis, Bob Chapman, and I rank Nick among the best. We have other project planned.
More photos? Well, of the hundreds that were taken that day, Richard Baron, the Art/Layout Director of Pano chose what he considered the best. I do have a few favorites that ended on the cutting room floor...
I also wanted to mention Pete Stout, a fellow 914-6 guy (and a GT4 guy) who encouraged me at the very start of my project, and while at Pano, made some editorial suggestions.
Again...thank you.

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 21 2017, 07:42 PM

Posted by: whitetwinturbo Feb 24 2017, 11:48 AM

Everyone knows yellow cars are faster...................

Posted by: carlsol Feb 27 2017, 12:25 PM

QUOTE(dhm @ Feb 19 2017, 11:38 AM)