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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Money and motor options
Posted by: thelogo Mar 13 2017, 09:50 PM
1st off the engine im going for in no way needs to
Be optimised for performance 
What is the best combo for just cool reliable running
In socal heat .
Im trying to stay clear of d jet 
So carbs or i like cb performance f.i kit but know little actually about it .
What
Crank
Pistons
Rods
Cam
Cyclinder s
Fuel delivery
Etc should i be putting together and what kinda budget windfall
Should i be prepared for .
I know its a sickness but cant be that expensive?
I will use a machine shop to build the motor
That have extensive experience with type 4
So i know thats gonna cost me major $
Talk to me about proven engine combinatios 
Posted by: thelogo Mar 13 2017, 09:54 PM
Im looking for air cooled type 4
And basically the exact opposite of this
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mueller Mar 13 2017, 10:25 PM
I think McMark does the 2056 for about $5k , don't think that includes the fuel delivery.
So figure another grand for for fuel and spark.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 13 2017, 10:29 PM
A sock 1.7 should hold up just fine under darned near any circumstances you throw at it. If you want to avoid D-jet, stick some Dells on it. Maybe drop the compression to the lower 73 CA-only spec (about 7.6:1) so you don't have to run premium.
You said it wasn't about performance....
--DD
Posted by: thelogo Mar 13 2017, 10:47 PM
A sock 1.7 should hold up just fine under darned near any circumstances you throw at it. If you want to avoid D-jet, stick some Dells on it. Maybe drop the compression to the lower 73 CA-only spec (about 7.6:1) so you don't have to run premium.
You said it wasn't about performance....
--DD
Thats pretty much the setup im runnin now
1.7 d,jet not running correctly, may just be f.i related
But
Do i rebuild a separate 1.7 and swap in
Wait till my 1.7 breaks down then rebuild it
It it even worth it building a fresh 1.7 or does that cost the same as a 2056 ?
Posted by: thelogo Mar 13 2017, 10:54 PM
I think McMark does the 2056 for about $5k , don't think that includes the fuel delivery.
So figure another grand for for fuel and spark.
Thats a pretty doable budget i think
As long as its cheaper than a / 6 six
Posted by: Chris914n6 Mar 13 2017, 10:56 PM
Depends on what you are starting with.
66mm or 71mm crank?
1.7 block/heads or 1.8/2.0 b&h?
new or used carbs?
You can hit $10k pretty quick if you veer far enough away from stock.
I find a stock 2.0 pretty decent.
I'd ask the shop what they like and what they might have stashed in storage.
"socal heat" 
My high today was your summer high average.
Posted by: Larmo63 Mar 13 2017, 10:57 PM
Look for a complete 2.0 core, tear it down to a long block and take it down to Jorge at EMW.
He can give you options, he's easy to work with, and you can do the tins, fan shroud, powder coating & painting yourself.
He takes CASH too.
I made payments to him.
My $.02
Posted by: struckn Mar 14 2017, 08:45 AM
Most people won't get what I'm saying but here's where I'm at. In tune with KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, and I'm talking about me, not anyone else, we all have are own ideas, but I will say some get in over their heads trying to do it their self and dreaming of major improvements in a short period of time.
I have a '74 1.8 that came with a SIMPLE Single 2V Weber 32/36 Carb. Five years ago it dropped a Valve Seat so I took it to Translog GT for a complete mechanical inspection and overhaul resulting in installation of a new Carb Cam, (2) replacement Heads splitting the case new Bearings, Valve Seats, Fuel Pump, SS Fuel Lines, pulling the Trans axle New Clutch, Bearings, Shift linkage Bushings, Heat Billows replacement wiring and everything else that was needed to make it as dependable and as problem free as possible. In the last five years I have not had to make any adjustments, or replace any parts, other then an Oil and filter. The cost was around $5K with the understanding it would be a few months to allow them to get it done when convenient to the operation of their shop, and a pay as it goes terms. Documentation of Time and Material provided.
I'd have no concern driving it every day, or cross county.......except my 'Ol body in the car would probably fall apart before anything on the car would.
Posted by: mepstein Mar 14 2017, 09:02 AM
Another option is a WTB request. Every year, many guys on this site convert to a six and sell their four. Many times the engine is in great running condition. It might not happen right away but it always happens. Dion just sold his. Ran like a top, looked great but he got 6 fever. I brought home a good running, complete with FI and tin, 2.0 from Virginia for a local 914 owner for $1,000. That was a no brainer.
When we were at Octeenerfest, Bob told me that half of the participants were not on 914world. I bought a great car from CA for $2,500 from the 914 yahoo group. So as big as 914world is, don't be afraid to reach out to other sources.
Posted by: mgphoto Mar 14 2017, 09:39 AM
A sock 1.7 should hold up just fine under darned near any circumstances you throw at it. If you want to avoid D-jet, stick some Dells on it. Maybe drop the compression to the lower 73 CA-only spec (about 7.6:1) so you don't have to run premium.
You said it wasn't about performance....
--DD
Thats pretty much the setup im runnin now
1.7 d,jet not running correctly, may just be f.i related
But
Do i rebuild a separate 1.7 and swap in
Wait till my 1.7 breaks down then rebuild it
It it even worth it building a fresh 1.7 or does that cost the same as a 2056 ?
sort out the d-jet your car should be worth more with FI than a single carb, which is the cheapest way to go.
Posted by: Tom_T Mar 14 2017, 10:01 AM
Since you're in SoCal ....
I'm not sure exactly when they were supposed to close, but you might try getting with Ron at FAT Performance in Orange before he retires, to both advise you on what to build, & to build it if there's enough time before he hangs up the wrenches.
FAT Performance has been building T-IVs since the came out in the late 1960s - for both street & competition - & many/most of the other engine builders learned from him.
If he can't build it for you, then he may be able to recco the best shop. Tuttle's in LA has been doing VW engine rebuilds for decades.
A 2.0 with Euro heads would give you a boost of HP & TQ over the stock GA 2.0 or 1.7, but you may need to bump to mid-grade or premium gas.
I don't know that going to carbs will solve your problem, as the D-jet EFI was a great system for those who knew how to tune them properly.
You my try Bill Brewster in South OC (San Clemente IIRC) or Der Buggy in Garden Grove to see if they can sort out your D-jet issue, before jumping to a new motor.
Bruce Stone/bdstone may also have a shop in the IE who knows T4 motors & D-jet.
PS - I think the optimal bore/stroke max on a 1.7 without compromising heat & driveablity is 1911cc.
Good Luck!
Tom
///////
Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 14 2017, 10:58 AM
Do i rebuild a separate 1.7 and swap in
Wait till my 1.7 breaks down then rebuild it
It it even worth it building a fresh 1.7 or does that cost the same as a 2056 ?
I'd say wait until yours is on the way out. Or get a spare (core 1.7s should be cheap!) and build it as time and budget allow.
A 1.7 should be more reliable than a 2.0 or a 2056. They tend to be less stressed, have more robust rod journals, have heads that are less prone to cracking, and have less demanded of them.
--DD
Posted by: thelogo Mar 14 2017, 04:41 PM
Sound advice d.d
Im happy with a 1.7
Not happy with djet .
Posted by: Mueller Mar 14 2017, 04:59 PM
Sound advice d.d
Im happy with a 1.7
Not happy with djet .
Could be operator error
Any fuel system be it a single carb or even a $5,000 Motec system can give you fits if not in tip top shape and if you don't know how to work on it, you could spend $10K on a new motor with modern EFI or dual carbs and be miserable if not tuned correctly or you miss a simple vacuum line.
I'd go thru all the basic troubleshooting of the FI and ignition 1st as well as a full tune up.
Posted by: thelogo Mar 14 2017, 06:40 PM
Sound advice d.d
Im happy with a 1.7
Not happy with djet .
Could be operator error
Any fuel system be it a single carb or even a $5,000 Motec system can give you fits if not in tip top shape and if you don't know how to work on it, you could spend $10K on a new motor with modern EFI or dual carbs and be miserable if not tuned correctly or you miss a simple vacuum line.
I'd go thru all the basic troubleshooting of the FI and ignition 1st as well as a full tune up.
Yeh anything is possible
But just to clarify i really never turn wrench s
On my cars
Im the driver " they told me to get in the car an drive an i could drive "
I leave the tune ups and maintenance to a professional air cooled guy with 40years experience.
But he refuses to deal with djet
So there i am
Posted by: thelogo Mar 14 2017, 06:42 PM
[quote name='Mueller' date='Mar 14 2017, 03:59 PM' post='2464197']
[quote name='thelogo' post='2464191' date='Mar 14 2017, 03:41 PM']
Sound advice d.d
Im happy with a 1.7
Not happy with djet .
[/quote]
Could be operator error
Any fuel system be it a single carb
How do you fuck up a single carb 
Posted by: Mike D. Mar 14 2017, 07:03 PM
How do you fuck up a single carb
You don't, it fucks you up. They are POS. And lose the mechanic that won't work on your car.
Take it to Leamon in Tajunga. PM him, he's HeelToe914
Posted by: Mueller Mar 14 2017, 08:09 PM
[quote name='thelogo' date='Mar 14 2017, 05:42 PM' post='2464233']
[quote name='Mueller' date='Mar 14 2017, 03:59 PM' post='2464197']
[quote name='thelogo' post='2464191' date='Mar 14 2017, 03:41 PM']
Sound advice d.d
Im happy with a 1.7
Not happy with djet .
[/quote]
Could be operator error
Any fuel system be it a single carb
How do you fuck up a single carb
[/quote]
Easy, they are already not the best solution for our motors, but they can be made worse by tweaking the settings, some people shouldn't be allowed to own a screw driver! Lot's of car problems are blamed on the fuel system when in fact the problems could be poorly adjusting valves or ignition problems.
Posted by: thelogo Mar 14 2017, 09:50 PM
Do or dont get me wrong djet is great
If they start makeing all new parts id buy them and go go go
![yellowsleep[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)
With the exception of guys who shouldnt own a screwdriver
Carbs are universally understood by mechanics all across the world and the guys that know djet are either too old or retired to fix/ fiddle with it
Im hopeing for a hail mary with this cb performance f.i kit
But if it ends up carbs so be it
Posted by: thelogo Mar 14 2017, 10:00 PM
How do you fuck up a single carb
You don't, it fucks you up. They are POS. And lose the mechanic that won't work on your car.
Take it to Leamon in Tajunga. PM him, he's HeelToe914
Leamon is the coolest guy ever
And yeh im sure he could help
And the guy always seem to find the great cars too
And my mechanic does a great job on the car
But he told me . Way back when i got the car
That the car was running well and he didnt really
Touch the injection and every thing seems fine
He recommended that as long as its all good to
Run the djet
And if it becomes a issue install webers
Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 14 2017, 10:23 PM
Carbs are universally understood by mechanics all across the world...
Not any more. The younger crop of mechanics doesn't seem to know a venturi from a float bowl. Then again, it's been several decades since any new car in the US was sold with a carb.
--DD
Posted by: Mueller Mar 14 2017, 10:31 PM
$3000 for the CB Performance EFI, and that doesn't include the tuning, ouch.
Tangerine Racing makes a rebuild kit for the MPS, the rest of the parts can easily be found.
Posted by: thelogo Mar 14 2017, 11:20 PM
$3000 for the CB Performance EFI, and that doesn't include the tuning, ouch.
Tangerine Racing makes a rebuild kit for the MPS, the rest of the parts can easily be found.
3k is pretty steep . Ive seen a 914 that used vw rabbit fuel injection
And im sure you could by a old rabbit for less then 3k
Posted by: Mueller Mar 14 2017, 11:44 PM
$3000 for the CB Performance EFI, and that doesn't include the tuning, ouch.
Tangerine Racing makes a rebuild kit for the MPS, the rest of the parts can easily be found.
3k is pretty steep . Ive seen a 914 that used vw rabbit fuel injection
And im sure you could by a old rabbit for less then 3k
I know the owner that did that, he is a member here. however you are not going to easily find a mechanic to install it for you, and if you did convince him to take your money it will not be cheap since it will not be a bolt on item. You might as well spend the $3K on the CB stuff.
Posted by: AZBanks Mar 14 2017, 11:50 PM
How does the D-jet and other 914 FI systems pick up the engine RPMS?
Is there a trigger/trigger wheel in the distributor or somewhere else on the engine?
Posted by: falcor75 Mar 15 2017, 12:28 AM
How does the D-jet and other 914 FI systems pick up the engine RPMS?
Is there a trigger/trigger wheel in the distributor or somewhere else on the engine?
I dont think it picks up the rpms at all, at least there's no trigger wheel to speak of unless it somehow picks up the signal from the distributor. I think it operates solely on manifold vacuum and engine temperatures. (I threw the D-jet out first thing I did and never paid much attention to it)
The one-stop-shops that are often recommended are http://www.originalcustoms.com/ and http://www.thedubshop.net/
Posted by: BeatNavy Mar 15 2017, 03:52 AM
How does the D-jet and other 914 FI systems pick up the engine RPMS?
Is there a trigger/trigger wheel in the distributor or somewhere else on the engine?
Trigger points run off the dizzy shaft. They fire injectors in pairs.
Posted by: barefoot Mar 15 2017, 05:35 AM
How does the D-jet and other 914 FI systems pick up the engine RPMS?
Is there a trigger/trigger wheel in the distributor or somewhere else on the engine?
The D-jet is a speed density based system. Once you know the rotating speed and manifold air density, in theory you know how much air the engine is inhaling. Consequently, you know how much fuel is needed. Speed is picked up thru trigger points in the dittsy and the manifold pressure and temperature sensors then get the density.
Of course, there are some other tweaks involved like the cold start injector to provide an extra rich mixture for cold starting, and the throttle valve assembly has provision to fire the injectors more rapidly for acceleration.
Some caveats however, this theory breaks down if exhaust gas recirculation is used as now you don't know the oxygen percentage in the incoming air and racing cams with large overlaps give mixed signals to the manifold pressure sensor.
EGR was an issue for the use of the L-jet system, and all modern FI systems now use a rather simple heated wire probe to measure incoming air volume.
Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 15 2017, 06:25 AM
Cheap (ish) FI I'd go with a fresh 914 2.0 2056, 73 web cam and use the 914 L-jet system.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 15 2017, 09:56 AM
Oh, look! A spammer has joined us!
--DD
Posted by: AZBanks Mar 15 2017, 10:05 AM
The reason I asked is because I have a business partner who builds custom VEMS based engine management systems for all the various 944s, 911's, BMW's, etc.
Would there be a market for a modern, easily tunable, ECU replacement for the 914?
It would be built to be a plug and play system. It would include a base tune in the package price and good after sale support. The package price would be around $1500.
This is the website for VEMS
http://www.vems.hu/
Here is my partners Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 15 2017, 12:16 PM
The reason I asked is because I have a business partner who builds custom VEMS based engine management systems for all the various 944s, 911's, BMW's, etc.
Would there be a market for a modern, easily tunable, ECU replacement for the 914?
It would be built to be a plug and play system. It would include a base tune in the package price and good after sale support. The package price would be around $1500.
This is the website for VEMS
http://www.vems.hu/
Here is my partners Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Knowing this crowd I'd say no, he may sell a few systems here and there, but not many.
Posted by: Mueller Mar 15 2017, 12:25 PM
The reason I asked is because I have a business partner who builds custom VEMS based engine management systems for all the various 944s, 911's, BMW's, etc.
Would there be a market for a modern, easily tunable, ECU replacement for the 914?
It would be built to be a plug and play system. It would include a base tune in the package price and good after sale support. The package price would be around $1500.
This is the website for VEMS
http://www.vems.hu/
Here is my partners Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
I'm sure a few people might be interested, but between McMark offering something based on the Microsquirt, the dubshop with his setup and MSPro for the other DIY guys the market is fairly small.
Posted by: 914forme Mar 15 2017, 02:50 PM
A few years ago I would have said sell it, spend the 5K and upgrade to a nicer 914. That math might still work for you.
Posted by: thelogo Mar 15 2017, 03:27 PM
A few years ago I would have said sell it, spend the 5K and upgrade to a nicer 914. That math might still work for you.
What happened to buy the nicest car you can afford
Posted by: Mueller Mar 15 2017, 09:00 PM
A few years ago I would have said sell it, spend the 5K and upgrade to a nicer 914. That math might still work for you.
What happened to buy the nicest car you can afford
For the same budget 2 people could get vastly different condition 914's, a lot of it is luck and timing and sometimes knowing people.
I bought a non-runner in decent condition for $2000 and a few months later a member here posted a way better and nicer running car he got for $2500.
On the flip side we've seen people buy and sell more or less basket cases for thousands more (or for some try to sell)
No idea what you paid for your 914, but if it was just a couple of grand like mine, unless you are lucky sometimes you get what you pay for. The guys that can shell out $8,000 or $15,000+ for a car have a better chance of getting a super nice condition and great running car.
I'm okay with my choice, mine is too far from being a show winner and I refuse to spend money on it to restore it to showroom condition.
I like the one recommendation on the L-jet conversion, very simple FI and I've had it on 1.8's and I converted a 2.0 over to it. My current 1.8 that I am rebuilding will run LJet if the camshaft plays nice with it.
Posted by: thelogo Mar 16 2017, 12:11 AM
So other then L-jet
You could say there is no specific
Proven d-jet replacement or kit
Thus requires custom an expensive
One off design s
Or a talented mechanic or tech that can adapt
Systems to work using parts an pieces
Removed from available cars
I honestly dont mind spending some coin
If its worth it and proven
I imagine Ljet is more budget friendly then others
But what are the pros cons ? ,cost ?
---------------------
Update and at the moment im pretty sure
My intake boots rubber is totally shot
Posted by: struckn Mar 16 2017, 01:27 PM
[quote name='thelogo' date='Mar 14 2017, 08:00 PM' post='2464289']
[quote name='Mike D.' post='2464240' date='Mar 14 2017, 06:03 PM']
[quote name='thelogo' post='2464233' date='Mar 14 2017, 05:42 PM']
How do you fuck up a single carb
[/quote]
You don't, it fucks you up. They are POS. And lose the mechanic that won't work on your car.
Alright I have to respond to the question above. Here again is my Video of my Single Weber 1.8 with the correct Cam and attention to the carb floats adjustments done by Tony at Translog GT to make it run right.
https://youtu.be/H4t0M2wrhu8
Doug
Posted by: 914forme Mar 16 2017, 02:07 PM
Okay well if you insist.
Take a 1.7 or 1.8L, I would try and find a 1.8L, bore it out the jugs to 96mm run a set of keith black pistons, and build a nice 1911, they are great little engines. Run a nice microsquirt or Megasquirt system on them. For an easy system I would use the 1.8L side intake with the Vanagon TB.
Add a set of 1.7L rockers with 911 swivel feet adjusters and a good cam, and go from there.
If you feel like spending dollars, get yourself a Tangerine Racing EVO Header and muffler, works of art and proven to make Horspower, well worth the $$$. I had one and just sat it on the bench and 
at it for days on end. Really cut into my productivity. I have also used a Kerry Hunter, a home built unit, stock stuff. Tangerine was the best value once you look at the quality verses the price.
You can spend some serious coin on a type-4 engine build.
Posted by: Mueller Mar 16 2017, 03:50 PM
[quote name='struckn' date='Mar 16 2017, 12:27 PM' post='2464773']
[quote name='thelogo' date='Mar 14 2017, 08:00 PM' post='2464289']
[quote name='Mike D.' post='2464240' date='Mar 14 2017, 06:03 PM']
[quote name='thelogo' post='2464233' date='Mar 14 2017, 05:42 PM']
How do you fuck up a single carb
[/quote]
You don't, it fucks you up. They are POS. And lose the mechanic that won't work on your car.
Alright I have to respond to the question above. Here again is my Video of my Single Weber 1.8 with the correct Cam and attention to the carb floats adjustments done by Tony at Translog GT to make it run right.
https://youtu.be/H4t0M2wrhu8
Doug
[/quote]
It has been proven they "work" but why not go the extra step for just few hundred dollars more to go twin carb which is proven to work better?
If the OP just wants a running car and doesn't mind a compromise the single carb can "work".
Will he be happy six month later wondering if it would be improved upon? Maybe, maybe not.
thelogo,
The problem that arises from adapting fuel injection from other model vehicles is the tuning. The volumetric efficiency and spark timing curves will be different. Some you can modify easily and others you won't be able to change anything so you run the risk of too lean or too rich as well as too far advanced in timing.
Adapting FI from another vehicle is one of those things that if you have to ask if it can be done, it is not a job for you or for your mechanic unless you have deep pockets.
LJet can be had for free to a few hundred dollars. I got mine for free, I just had to pay shipping.
However just like DJet, if you are not 100% familiar with it and not everything is in tip top shape it will give you fits.
Very simple, plenty of online resources that describe how it operates and what is related to what on the system. (same goes for Djet)
Posted by: thelogo Mar 16 2017, 04:27 PM
Okay well if you insist.
You can spend some serious coin on a type-4 engine build.
Im starting to realize that
But i think sticking with the type 4
Is better then the alternative
(6 or water cooled )
Great advice on the 1911
Posted by: 914sgofast2 Mar 16 2017, 05:03 PM
The answer to building a good engine with the Djet system is to be methodical and not take shortcuts when you are rebuilding/testing the various Djet components. I just finished rebuilding the 1.7 in my son's early 1970 model year 914. It has the least amount of factory smog control compromises of any 914; they did not even have a factory PCV valve or orifice - they just had the vent pipe on the oil filler chimney connected with a hose to the side of the oil bath air cleaner housing. Later cars had it plumbed into the intake plenum with a PCV valve/orifice in the oil filler housing.
Anyway, if you want a good performing Djet, I would recommend starting with the system components from an early 1970 model year 914 since they have the least amount of factory smog modifications/settings made to the distributor and fuel injection tuning in the ECU.
Use a distributor, ECU and MPS suitable designed for use on a 1970 model year 914. There are charts of the part numbers to use for this model year at Bowlby's site or there has links to them at his website.
In making the Djet work properly on my son's car, I did the following: (a) rebuilt the Djet wiring harness myself (or you can buy one from Bowlsby); (b) replaced all 4 fuel injectors with NEW black ones from Standard I got from Parts Geek (found that using rebuilt Bosch yellow ones was a waste of money - they always ended up leaking from the housing); © cleaned the distributor completely, including the advance weights and the fuel injection trigger point unit. Most important, test the vacuum advance & retard unit for leaks. If the distributor vacuum unit leaks, buy a new one.
It is also critical to test the auxiliary air regulator (AAR) valve that adjusts/controls the cold and hot engine idle. (The test is described on Bowlsby's site) If the AAR is not shutting off when hot, it will drive you crazy searching for mysterious vacuum leaks because it does not close entirely when the engine warms up. The symptom of a bad AAR is a hot engine that will not idle down low enough and will not hold an even idle speed. It acts just like it has a huge vacuum leak, because that is what it is. The AAR is not shutting off the flow of air into the intake plenum, which results in an overly lean mixture when hot. This causes the engine idle to hunt, confusing the MPS and ECU and making it impossible to set the idle on a hot engine to below 1800 RPM or so. We ended up simply removing the AAR and plugging the inlet pipe in the intake plenum because we could not find a good used AAR and new ones are unobtanium. This means we no longer have a cold engine fast idle on initial start up, but the engine's hot idle can now be adjusted to the correct RPM when warmed up. I spent weeks chasing down this problem looking for phantom vacuum leaks because it idled perfectly when cold, but once the engine got hot the engine idle hunted all over the place and would not settle down.
Make sure the MPS unit will hold vacuum for at least 15 minutes without losing any vacuum. If it won't, you need to replace it. An engine with a leaking MPS will never run properly since the Djet is a vacuum based fuel injection system.
There are also the standard precautions to be observed. Set the timing correctly for the full advance around 3500 RPM. Make sure the valves are correctly adjusted.
Last, but not least, we used a set of the factory "Euro" high compression pistons in the 1.7 and carefully set the deck height of the pistons when we rebuilt the engine so the compression ratio wasn't too high.
You should end up with an engine likes to rev because it has a shorter stroke than a 2 liter and due to the absence of the smog settings/compromises to fuel ratios and distributor timing the later fuel injected engines had to endure. It also avoids the cylinder heads that are prone to cracking and dropping valve seats as found on the 2 liter engines. The reason Porsche kept increasing engine sizes in the 914 and redoing the heads was to make up for the power loses the later year engines suffered when trying to meet the increasingly strict emissions requirements in the 1971 to 1975 era. In those days, each year the engines had to run cleaner and cleaner and the emissions technology knowledge was just developing step by step. Like I said, our early 1970 (with a December 1969 build date) did not even have a PCV system like the later ones did.
You should be able to build one of these 1.7s in an "early" state of tune for far less than $5,000. We did. No one sees any value in Djet parts for the 1.7 engines, especially the early ones. Take advantage of it now before the prices go up.
Posted by: struckn Mar 16 2017, 05:11 PM
Alright I have to respond to the question above. Here again is my Video of my Single Weber 1.8 with the correct Cam and attention to the carb floats adjustments done by Tony at Translog GT to make it run right.
https://youtu.be/H4t0M2wrhu8
Doug
[/quote]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It has been proven they "work" but why not go the extra step for just few hundred dollars more to go twin carb which is proven to work better?
If the OP just wants a running car and doesn't mind a compromise the single carb can "work".
Will he be happy six month later wondering if it would be improved upon? Maybe, maybe not.
Replying to above but first repeating the original post in the beginning he wanted:
1st off the engine im going for in no way needs to
Be optimised for performance screwy.gif stirthepot.gif
What is the best combo for just cool reliable running In socal heat .
Im trying to stay clear of d jet poke.gif bootyshake.gif
So carbs or i like cb performance f.i kit but know little actually about it .
Now what I'm saying is single carb is least expensive, runs reliably, and is low maintenance easy to understand and work on. When Translog worked on the car I asked Tony to set it up for a two carb to be done later on. I'm happy with how it is and tuning a two carb is problematic if you don't know what you're doing[i]. I have a perfectly running car and don't want to touch it to screw it up.
Posted by: Mueller Mar 16 2017, 06:00 PM
True bumper sticker I just saw;
"I'd rather walk than drive a single carb'd Type IV"
......
If you go down Ljet path I'd look at upgrading the ignition. The 123ignition stuff is really tempting.
Posted by: struckn Mar 16 2017, 07:27 PM
Forgot to mention My 2V Weber has an Electric Choke!
Posted by: thelogo Mar 16 2017, 09:24 PM
The answer to building a good engine with the Djet system is to be methodical and not take shortcuts when you are rebuilding/testing the various Djet components. I just finished rebuilding the 1.7 in my son's early 1970 model year 914. It has the least amount of factory smog control compromises of any 914; they did not even have a factory PCV valve or orifice - they just had the vent pipe on the oil filler chimney connected with a hose to the side of the oil bath air cleaner housing. Later cars had it plumbed into the intake plenum with a PCV valve/orifice in the oil filler housing.
Anyway, if you want a good performing Djet, I would recommend starting with the system components from an early 1970 model year 914 since they have the least amount of factory smog modifications/settings made to the distributor and fuel injection tuning in the ECU.
Use a distributor, ECU and MPS suitable designed for use on a 1970 model year 914. There are charts of the part numbers to use for this model year at Bowlby's site or there has links to them at his website.
In making the Djet work properly on my son's car, I did the following: (a) rebuilt the Djet wiring harness myself (or you can buy one from Bowlsby); (b) replaced all 4 fuel injectors with NEW black ones from Standard I got from Parts Geek (found that using rebuilt Bosch yellow ones was a waste of money - they always ended up leaking from the housing); © cleaned the distributor completely, including the advance weights and the fuel injection trigger point unit. Most important, test the vacuum advance & retard unit for leaks. If the distributor vacuum unit leaks, buy a new one.
It is also critical to test the auxiliary air regulator (AAR) valve that adjusts/controls the cold and hot engine idle. (The test is described on Bowlsby's site) If the AAR is not shutting off when hot, it will drive you crazy searching for mysterious vacuum leaks because it does not close entirely when the engine warms up. The symptom of a bad AAR is a hot engine that will not idle down low enough and will not hold an even idle speed. It acts just like it has a huge vacuum leak, because that is what it is. The AAR is not shutting off the flow of air into the intake plenum, which results in an overly lean mixture when hot. This causes the engine idle to hunt, confusing the MPS and ECU and making it impossible to set the idle on a hot engine to below 1800 RPM or so. We ended up simply removing the AAR and plugging the inlet pipe in the intake plenum because we could not find a good used AAR and new ones are unobtanium. This means we no longer have a cold engine fast idle on initial start up, but the engine's hot idle can now be adjusted to the correct RPM when warmed up. I spent weeks chasing down this problem looking for phantom vacuum leaks because it idled perfectly when cold, but once the engine got hot the engine idle hunted all over the place and would not settle down.
Make sure the MPS unit will hold vacuum for at least 15 minutes without losing any vacuum. If it won't, you need to replace it. An engine with a leaking MPS will never run properly since the Djet is a vacuum based fuel injection system.
There are also the standard precautions to be observed. Set the timing correctly for the full advance around 3500 RPM. Make sure the valves are correctly adjusted.
Last, but not least, we used a set of the factory "Euro" high compression pistons in the 1.7 and carefully set the deck height of the pistons when we rebuilt the engine so the compression ratio wasn't too high.
You should end up with an engine likes to rev because it has a shorter stroke than a 2 liter and due to the absence of the smog settings/compromises to fuel ratios and distributor timing the later fuel injected engines had to endure. It also avoids the cylinder heads that are prone to cracking and dropping valve seats as found on the 2 liter engines. The reason Porsche kept increasing engine sizes in the 914 and redoing the heads was to make up for the power loses the later year engines suffered when trying to meet the increasingly strict emissions requirements in the 1971 to 1975 era. In those days, each year the engines had to run cleaner and cleaner and the emissions technology knowledge was just developing step by step. Like I said, our early 1970 (with a December 1969 build date) did not even have a PCV system like the later ones did.
You should be able to build one of these 1.7s in an "early" state of tune for far less than $5,000. We did. No one sees any value in Djet parts for the 1.7 engines, especially the early ones. Take advantage of it now before the prices go up.
I have great respect for all the great info you gave and effort you make
But it has just convinced me that the djet has gotta go.
Too much to go wrong to fragile , to difficult to fiddle with for me personally.
And for all that trouble you get great driveablity
But not much reliability
Im looking for something proven and rock solid
Not porcelain fragile and tempermental
Credit to my current djet for lasting 40 years ,but
Obviously it was never intended to carry on this long
Posted by: mepstein Mar 17 2017, 06:31 AM
If you find a more reliable, affordable, bolt on solution than factory FI, let me know. Until then, I'll be driving my d-jet 914.
Posted by: rdauenhauer Mar 17 2017, 07:05 AM
Posted by: thelogo Mar 17 2017, 03:45 PM
If you find a more reliable, affordable, bolt on solution than factory FI, let me know. Until then, I'll be driving my d-jet 914.
If after 40+ years no one has come up with it
Then maybe it doesn't exist.
But those germans are some crafty bastards
Posted by: Mueller Mar 17 2017, 05:58 PM
If you find a more reliable, affordable, bolt on solution than factory FI, let me know. Until then, I'll be driving my d-jet 914.
If after 40+ years no one has come up with it
Then maybe it doesn't exist.
But those germans are some crafty bastards
Basic descriptions....
Djet = analog or mechanical
Modern EFI = digital
trigger method:
djet = mechanical points (replacements can be found NOS or replaced with digital points)
modern = crank position sensor (these die and leave you stranded, hard to replace depending on location)
air flow:
djet = mps which uses a inductance via a bellows (brand new bellows assembly available)
modern = hot wire or map (these are known to die, just replaced one in the family Volvo, wasn't cheap)
tps:
djet, mechanical sweeper, (I think NOS or maybe replacements available)
modern = digital potonimeter (another item that is not 100% bullet proof)
So everything fails at one point or another. If the Djet was "that" bad it wouldn't still be around on thousands of cars still and someone would have come up with a bolt on solution to replace it. (used on more than just 914's)
Posted by: thelogo Mar 17 2017, 08:21 PM
If you find a more reliable, affordable, bolt on solution than factory FI, let me know. Until then, I'll be driving my d-jet 914.
If after 40+ years no one has come up with it
Then maybe it doesn't exist.
But those germans are some crafty bastards
Basic descriptions....
Djet = analog or mechanical
Modern EFI = digital
trigger method:
djet = mechanical points (replacements can be found NOS or replaced with digital points)
modern = crank position sensor (these die and leave you stranded, hard to replace depending on location)
air flow:
djet = mps which uses a inductance via a bellows (brand new bellows assembly available)
modern = hot wire or map (these are known to die, just replaced one in the family Volvo, wasn't cheap)
tps:
djet, mechanical sweeper, (I think NOS or maybe replacements available)
modern = digital potonimeter (another item that is not 100% bullet proof)
So everything fails at one point or another. If the Djet was "that" bad it wouldn't still be around on thousands of cars still and someone would have come up with a bolt on solution to replace it. (used on more than just 914's)
Great info ,,and thanks for dumbing it down so i can understand
So it looks like im sticking with djet
druck 
Until system failure
Then ill be shopping for carbs and cam .....
Posted by: thelogo Mar 17 2017, 08:25 PM
Purr
Meow
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mueller Mar 17 2017, 09:14 PM
I'm not going to lie, if I stumbled upon a pair of carbs at a great price I'd probably jump on them and ditch what I have.
Posted by: thelogo Mar 17 2017, 10:15 PM
I'm not going to lie, if I stumbled upon a pair of carbs at a great price I'd probably jump on them and ditch what I have.
Just so i can keep an eye out
What is a great set of carbs .
1.webers ,spain ,Italian or chinese s
2. Dells
3. Weber copies ? Empi ?
Any of those ?
Call me crazy i know f.i or modern f.i is technically best but
A motor refresh , carb cam, new valvetrain and dual carbs
Sound like a hell of alot better then the djet thats just go's
Buzzzzzzzz on down the road
Posted by: AZBanks Mar 17 2017, 10:34 PM
My next engine upgrade.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/home.oap
Enter "121g" in the search box.
Posted by: rush Mar 18 2017, 11:17 AM
Does anyone know of a available L jet system 4 sale or Trade?
Would like to try it
Posted by: JamesM Mar 18 2017, 12:25 PM
Sound advice d.d
Im happy with a 1.7
Not happy with djet .
Funny story, I took a bone stock 1.7 d-jet car to RRC last year and wound up passing a couple carbed 2056 cars on the high altitude climbs. They were sputtering out while the d-jet kept my 1.7 running like a sewing machine. I can stand outside the car, turn the key and start it in pretty much any temperature at any altitude and almost always on the first compression stroke to boot. If you are running a stock motor and are not happy with d-jet you are doing something wrong. As an added bonus the 1.7 d-jet parts tend to be fairly cheap in comparison to other options. If you mod the motor its a different story but i cant see why anyone running a stock 1.7 would run anything but d-jet, that is unless you want to spend the money to go full custom fuel injection but that is a LOT more work.
Posted by: 914forme Mar 18 2017, 12:26 PM
Carbs,
Best drivability are Dellortos 36mm for your engine.
Next would be Webers, Italian, Spain, avoid all else unless you have to. These will be 40mm 44 and 48 are to big.
BTW, them Germans being crafty bastards happened to us carbs, on some of the European 914s. And I am not talking 914-6s I am talking -4s Some times you can find these also.
I would also not shy away from the single barrel dual carb units on a basic 1.7L build. Used a lot in the VW crowd, and a re a good little carb if your not looking for big numbers.
Here is a set of http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/17027-01009470.html?utm_content=YN&utm_term=1970-1976+Porsche+914+Carburetor+Kit+Redline+W0133-1597787+70-76+Porsche+Carburetor+Kit+1975+1974&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=CjwKEAjwtbPGBRDhoLaqn6HknWsSJABR-o5sauMeUqlBd-v8_DeJXtTTp4FjFAyHnlw4s01oYvxYYBoCBDnw_wcB&ad=47433965052, $419 not sure of quality
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-carburetor-options-selection-101/
And http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Porsche-Dellorto-DRLA-36-Carbs-w-linkage-manifolds-filters-and-regulator-/182489567324, there about, you will also need a fuel pump. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3193.htm
Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 18 2017, 12:48 PM
Does anyone know of a available L jet system 4 sale or Trade?
Would like to try it
Put a WTB in the classifieds, lots of them out there.
Posted by: Robnxious Mar 18 2017, 01:45 PM
My next engine upgrade.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/home.oap
Enter "121g" in the search box.
I bought one of these, but could never get it to work right with my stock 1.8 FI. Probably need a 6 to get it up to 88 MPH
Posted by: thelogo Mar 19 2017, 12:41 AM
Carbs,
Best drivability are Dellortos 36mm for your engine.
Next would be Webers, Italian, Spain, avoid all else unless you have to. These will be 40mm 44 and 48 are to big.
BTW, them Germans being crafty bastards happened to us carbs, on some of the European 914s. And I am not talking 914-6s I am talking -4s Some times you can find these also.
I would also not shy away from the single barrel dual carb units on a basic 1.7L build. Used a lot in the VW crowd, and a re a good little carb if your not looking for big numbers.
Here is a set of http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/17027-01009470.html?utm_content=YN&utm_term=1970-1976+Porsche+914+Carburetor+Kit+Redline+W0133-1597787+70-76+Porsche+Carburetor+Kit+1975+1974&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=CjwKEAjwtbPGBRDhoLaqn6HknWsSJABR-o5sauMeUqlBd-v8_DeJXtTTp4FjFAyHnlw4s01oYvxYYBoCBDnw_wcB&ad=47433965052, $419 not sure of quality
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-carburetor-options-selection-101/
And http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Porsche-Dellorto-DRLA-36-Carbs-w-linkage-manifolds-filters-and-regulator-/182489567324, there about, you will also need a fuel pump. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3193.htm
I think the redlines you had the link for seems perfectly doable
But the photo showed the manifolds that didnt seem to be for a 914?
But being as my 1sr car was a baja bug and my neighbors builds class 5 bajas .
They always use a single carb dual throat weber over dual setup
With dual port curved manifold and the carb in a airbox
I guess its easier to protect 1 vs 2
No cross linkage
No multiple fuel lines
Since it will be taking a beating they avoid the dual setup
So i wouldn't be opposed to that setup
But any guy selling a single carb 914 manifold is probably a asshole
Posted by: mgphoto Mar 19 2017, 08:24 AM
Carbs,
Best drivability are Dellortos 36mm for your engine.
Next would be Webers, Italian, Spain, avoid all else unless you have to. These will be 40mm 44 and 48 are to big.
BTW, them Germans being crafty bastards happened to us carbs, on some of the European 914s. And I am not talking 914-6s I am talking -4s Some times you can find these also.
I would also not shy away from the single barrel dual carb units on a basic 1.7L build. Used a lot in the VW crowd, and a re a good little carb if your not looking for big numbers.
Here is a set of http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/17027-01009470.html?utm_content=YN&utm_term=1970-1976+Porsche+914+Carburetor+Kit+Redline+W0133-1597787+70-76+Porsche+Carburetor+Kit+1975+1974&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=CjwKEAjwtbPGBRDhoLaqn6HknWsSJABR-o5sauMeUqlBd-v8_DeJXtTTp4FjFAyHnlw4s01oYvxYYBoCBDnw_wcB&ad=47433965052, $419 not sure of quality
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-carburetor-options-selection-101/
And http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Porsche-Dellorto-DRLA-36-Carbs-w-linkage-manifolds-filters-and-regulator-/182489567324, there about, you will also need a fuel pump. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3193.htm
I think the redlines you had the link for seems perfectly doable
But the photo showed the manifolds that didnt seem to be for a 914?
But being as my 1sr car was a baja bug and my neighbors builds class 5 bajas .
They always use a single carb dual throat weber over dual setup
With dual port curved manifold and the carb in a airbox
I guess its easier to protect 1 vs 2
No cross linkage
No multiple fuel lines
Since it will be taking a beating they avoid the dual setup
So i wouldn't be opposed to that setup
But any guy selling a single carb 914 manifold is probably a asshole
You will hate the way it runs with FI cam...
This is a sports car not a bus.
Posted by: 914forme Mar 19 2017, 09:08 AM
Class 5 is a different animal and you are correct, the mantra is keep it simple.
I would go after a set of Dells before I went with any weber variants. The Dells have an extra transition circuit in them, make the more linear in the response.
To do a carb system correctly you will also need to find the now rather unobatiuum Mallory Unilite dizzy. Or go with a stand alone coil pack setup.
Don't forget the cam, and headers, the 1.8L heads can be pretty good, 2.0L are better, but have a bunch of problems and finding good ones, next to impossible.
Don't forget headers also. Unless you need heat. I ran just seat heaters in mine, keep the wife happy.
I need to save some coin and get a set of headers on my -6, Chris will be my call.
So again, this would be my build if you can find th pieces to do it.
1.8L
96mm pistons stock bored over, or if you can find round Das go for them. Keith Black Pistons.
Cam depends on EFI or Carb
1.7Litter rockers modified to clear the 911 swivel foot adjusters.
valve train geometry set, some times stock rods are dead on, it is odd, I got lucky.
Solid spacers on the rocker arms
Do not vent the heads, if they ae vented plug them.
EFI D-jet you have to keep the stock dizzy, everything else will be dependent on what you do.
Header If you need heat, SS heat exchangers, tubing slightly bigger than stock, and a 2.0L banana, you can make them into a sport muffler if you want dual pipes hanging out back. Or rally and cap two or one depending on what your doing.
Better oil pump, or dry sump it Street you can keep the simple stock setup, though I would make it full flow.
I am a huge fan of EFI, and have considered changing my -6 over, but the cost of TBs have keep me from doing that currently. I am running a coil pack independent ignition system from Simple Digital Systems called the http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi.htm. Why because my 914-6 came with a Mallory Dizzy, can't find the parts, I have a Bosch, but figured why mess with points, confessors, and compromise.
If you want to do EFI, It is as simple as stock intake runners, and using modern components to replace the aging D-jet stuff, as discussed here all read. Or you can go individual runner TBs, but a single TB in a common manifold is a very good system for a street car, and it is quite.
So now the key is pull the trigger and do something anything really. We can build these things in our heads millions of times over it is getting out and doing that separates you from the rest of the pack.
Some people are died in the wool think Porsche VW engineers where the best and would only build the best they could. That is true when given free rein and no budget, unfortunately the 914 was built to be sold as a mass produced car, lots of compromises. So it is your turn to make the car the best version you want it to be. If that is dropping a slightly warmed over type-4 cool, if it is a -6, cool, if it is a subaru, or LS, or even a TDI, I say cool go for it. It is your ride enjoy it, make it your own, just make it.
Last two paragraphs was also for me, to get off my ass today and spend some time in the shop, building the -6.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 19 2017, 01:51 PM
If you do go with a single-carb setup, consider heating the manifolds. The Beetles with the single carbs had heat risers to try to keep the fuel mixed into the air; most of the setups for the Type IV engine give you long unheated intake pipes which are very prone to fuel drop-out.
Realize that there isn't a lot of expertise around single-carb setups on a 914. Most people who have them don't deal with them at all and just accept however they run as how the car runs.
--DD
Posted by: porsche913b_sp Mar 19 2017, 05:01 PM
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