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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Will this work?

Posted by: Pugbug May 5 2005, 11:54 AM

My engine shroud blows the air straight down and blows dust everywhere, so I want to try these baffles I made up to blow it out my rear.

Can anyone see a reason why this would be a bad thing?

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Posted by: brant May 5 2005, 12:01 PM

don't have any personal experience.
and don't want to sound negative either...

but off the top of my head, I would think that the shroud would increase motor temps (oil and head) because it would radiate heat back and because it would prevent some heat from escaping...

again, don't take this negative and maybe temp isn't an issue for you. Nice fab work though!

brant

Posted by: mattillac May 5 2005, 12:19 PM

maybe drill some holes in it or add some louvres(?) so it's more like a diffuser than a
shield.

Posted by: rhodyguy May 5 2005, 12:28 PM

wouldn't be easier to get the proper air guide plates for your engine application?

k

Posted by: mattillac May 5 2005, 12:31 PM

he already made the deflectors tho. and buying stuff costs $$$.

Posted by: mattillac May 5 2005, 12:33 PM

louvers...

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Posted by: tat2dphreak May 5 2005, 12:34 PM

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ May 5 2005, 01:28 PM)
wouldn't be easier to get the proper air guide plates for your engine application?

k

I was thinking the same...

if you have trouble finding them cheap, LMK, I know a guy who parted several cars last year and I have bought several parts from...

Posted by: Pugbug May 5 2005, 12:47 PM

Stock air guides won't fit this shroud, so I'll try these, but keep a close eye on the temps.

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Posted by: nebreitling May 5 2005, 12:49 PM

interesting exhaust.. are those the 75-75 stubs turned backwards? giving the mating angles, i thought they would not work in that orientation?

Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2005, 12:54 PM

QUOTE (brant @ May 5 2005, 10:01 AM)
I would think that the shroud would increase motor temps (oil and head) because it would radiate heat back and because it would prevent some heat from escaping...

moving air under the engine helps with cooling, that's why the factory added the "flaps" to the lower firewall in later years ...

you'll probably see higher oil temps ...
Andy

Posted by: Pugbug May 5 2005, 12:56 PM

I have no idea what the exhaust is from...Was on the car when I got it, along with twin cherry bomb mufflers. They are history now, but man was it ever loud!
I think I'll take Mattillac's suggestion and put some louvers in the baffles. I think that will minimize any radiant heat created. I'll also paint them flat black.
Thanks for the input all.

Posted by: Pugbug May 5 2005, 05:52 PM

I've modified the tins....Added louvers, and cut a wider opening in the front......Thanks for the tips guys.

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Posted by: StratPlayer May 5 2005, 05:55 PM

Ya didn't waste any time. Looks good, hope it works for you...

Posted by: Reiche May 6 2005, 12:08 AM

QUOTE (Pugbug @ May 5 2005, 10:47 AM)
Stock air guides won't fit this shroud, so I'll try these, but keep a close eye on the temps.

Looks great. With your fab skills, I think it would be easy to make some tins that replicated the factory ones in function. Right now, your cooling air is cooling the top of your engine well, but it is missing the hottest parts of the heads and cylinders: the bottoms. If you can channel the air around those bottom-side curves a little (like the factory did) I think you will run much cooler. At least your temps would be more even, which is as important. I wouldn't use the stock type 4 bottom tin though. A type 1-style bottom tin would do (basically a flat plate under the "cleavage" between the two cylinder barrels.)

Posted by: messix May 6 2005, 12:15 AM

ot
nice cj hood.

whats the rest of it look like [what it mounts up to]

i have a '75 cj 5 built for the trail

Posted by: jgiroux67 May 6 2005, 12:56 AM

I'm interested about that exhaust. What year engine do you have?

Posted by: McMark May 6 2005, 01:02 AM

Am I the only one who doesn't understand the motivation for this? You "blowing dust"? WTF?

Posted by: Pugbug May 6 2005, 06:23 AM

McMark;
The shroud on this engine bows a lot of air straight down, so whenever I encounter gravel or sandy roads...(Like a construction area) often I have to stop and wait. When I do there is a major sand storm rising from under the car.

That is me waiting on the other side of those gates.

Josh; The engine was originaly a 1.8 litre. It's been increased to 1910cc. I'm not sure, but I'm thinking the exhaust may be bus parts??

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Posted by: URY914 May 6 2005, 07:50 AM

You should email RicerChris pictures of those headers. He is the expert in 914 exhaust systems. I've never seen a seen one like that before.

BTW- we have two Pugs. Great dogs.

Paul

Posted by: davep May 6 2005, 08:21 AM

It appears you are missing the lower air guides. This may cause uneven cylinder cooling and that may be a bad thing. What I'm thinking of is that the bottoms of the cylinders will run much hotter since the airflow bypasses them. This could cause the running cylinders to be slightly out of round.

Posted by: Tom Perso May 6 2005, 08:28 AM

Since I ran a DTM shroud on my 2270 when it was in the bug, I ran T1 air deflectors and they cooled great. Get those on the car, plus their dirt cheap ($3 each or so?)

Tom

Posted by: brant May 6 2005, 08:36 AM

Larry,

I gotta say..
nice fab work!

brant

Posted by: McMark May 6 2005, 09:16 AM

Damn! That's a lot of air. No wonder the DTM cools so nice.

Posted by: type11969 May 6 2005, 10:52 AM

T-1 engines used deflector tins similar to what you have created, instead of getting a blast of air straight down, you get it straight back. I would think this would help temps at idle if stuck in traffic, since if the hot air was just blowing striaght down, the heat would have a tendency to rise back up and get the engine hotter.

Posted by: Pugbug May 6 2005, 02:47 PM

DaveP;
Air guides?...Are you referring to these? They are on the engine, and the engine is in the car now. Just have to hook everything up.

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Posted by: mattillac May 6 2005, 05:53 PM

QUOTE (messix @ May 5 2005, 10:15 PM)
ot
nice cj hood.

whats the rest of it look like [what it mounts up to]

i have a '75 cj 5 built for the trail

dunno? random google pic.

Posted by: Reiche May 6 2005, 06:47 PM

QUOTE (Pugbug @ May 6 2005, 12:47 PM)
Air guides?...Are you referring to these?

I was referring to part numbers 59, 60, 62 and 63 on this diagram.

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Posted by: Reiche May 6 2005, 06:48 PM

Also, with an upright cooling system like that, it may cool better with the type 1 bottom tins than the type 4 tins.

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Posted by: Pugbug May 6 2005, 09:30 PM

Reiche;
Thanks for the photo....I think I may have those air guides in the shop. I have a dismantled 1.7 engine out there. I'll see if I can make them fit some how. I don't have any type 1 undertins though. The engine has been installed today, and I'm not sure that I could get the type 4 undertins off....But I'll scope it out anyway.
Why do you think the type one tins would be better??

Posted by: Tom Perso May 6 2005, 09:38 PM

T1 tins are generally better for upright converted motors. I would suggest using them over the stock T4 ones, since they are designed just for pancake cooling.

Tom

Posted by: McMark May 6 2005, 10:26 PM

You can't remove the under cylinder tin from a T4 without removing the pushrod tubes. If you want them out in one pieces that is...

Posted by: Pugbug May 9 2005, 05:44 PM

Update...I've made up air guides for the shroud since the stock ones won't fit, and you guys got me all worried!

Tell me what you think.

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Posted by: Reiche May 9 2005, 10:37 PM

Well done. I think that will work much better for cooling. If not, you could trim the ends of those new baffles until it does. Do you have a CHT gauge? Keep us posted.

Your dust problem should be solved too.

Posted by: jgiroux67 May 9 2005, 11:19 PM

So vw bus headers/exhaust work on our engines? I thought the heads were different?

Posted by: Jake Raby May 10 2005, 12:03 AM

Those head pipes are from a 75-77 Bus.... The rest of the system is pure junk..

The Bus head pipes will work and are the same as the 914 right up till August of 1978 when the heads on the bus changed to a square port... The 914 heads are not magical in this area..

As for the tin you have made, it should work fine.. The stock TI engine had a tin just like that and it actually helps draw air from the engine as vehicle speed and fan pressure increases...

BTW- Make sure you run a 4-1 collector with that exhaust, not duals, these engines MUST have a collecteor and the nicer it is the better! I have seen a TWENTY FIVE percent power loss when going to dual exhaust without an collector/extractor on a TIV engine!

Posted by: Pugbug May 10 2005, 06:58 AM

Thanks for your comments Jake.
The exhaust system is basically what was on it when I bought the car. I've only put quieter mufflers on it. It is only temporary until I decide which system I want....and can afford.
I want the best I can get, but it must be fairly quiet.

Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Jul 17 2005, 12:26 PM

QUOTE (Pugbug @ May 5 2005, 09:54 AM)
My engine shroud blows the air straight down and blows dust everywhere, so I want to try these baffles I made up to blow it out my rear.

Can anyone see a reason why this would be a bad thing?

Nothing wrong from a Type 3 person's point of view since that is how the stock T3 cooling tin works I even use the stock pieces on my 2007cc T3 motor...no problems with over-heating